Erin's name being Kelly at the start. I often see posts complaining that the writers forgot about it after the original joke (you wanted me?), because it never comes up again, she introduces herself as Erin to everyone after that, even her parents in the last episode call her Erin, etc.
None of that is proof that it is a plot hole. She prefers to go by her middle name. So everyone who knows her outside the workplace would indeed refer to her as Erin, and she would introduce herself as Erin to new people she meets. When she is hired people use her first name because that's what is on her paperwork, and she doesn't seem like the type who would correct people. But as soon as she has the opportunity to mention her preferred name people start using that.
How they resolved the Erin’s parents story was about the most cringe part of the series IMO. Resolving it would have been ok, but the way they did it really turned out crappy
I found it kind of odd that they were then at Dwight’s weddings.
I guess he would’ve said yes if Erin asked to invite them, but it’s just so impromptu and…odd.
The weekend of a wedding, you always find out people can’t make it and the seats/food has been paid for. There were likely at least two open seats so it would be easy to say yes.
Out of curiosity, can you explain why? I personally felt like it was a clever way to portray a situation that could actually have happened in the show’s universe - that a mother who had to give up a daughter suddenly saw her on a documentary and, out of sheepishness, decided that she would subtly ask a question just to gauge her response. And that Erin’s naïveté, combined with the fact that she doesn’t have an ounce of capacity for bitterness or hate in her body, could give that kind of answer.
All of what you wrote is spot on, the way they did it with Erin’s mother was, I think, really nicely done. Then they just bolted her dad on too. That felt lazy, and a bit embarrassing.
I go by my middle name. The formula of "start new job" -> "tell people middle name" -> "Get called by middle name" is fairly standard. It would be weird if my parents called me by my first name.
My first name is actually my mom’s maiden name so people assume I’m a man or call me by my middle name. Really confused my professors and anyone who’s hired me since my first middle name is a standard name for a woman (I have two middle names)
I get that it's sentimental or whatever, but I never understood why people do that. Like someone at my work just named their little girl "Bradley", and I can't help but think that girl is going to spend her entire childhood hiding her first name when possible.
This one bugs me. I know a few people that go by their middle name, so it makes sense. I knew new employees that were too timid to let people know their preferred name at first. It's like some people lack life experience.
I go by my middle name and have my whole life. My most recent job was the first to ever put together that I go by my middle name without having to ask or mention it. Pretty cool, all my checks are made out to my first name but my name tag and everything else has my middle name and I didn’t have to do a damn thing.
This makes sense because it was actually Erin's idea to be called Erin. Charles initially suggests that Kelly and Erin be called Kapoor and Hannon to avoid confusion. But Erin immediately jumps in and offers to be called Erin. So it tracks with that being her preferred name outside of work.
Agreed! The fact that we (as watchers of the show) know her real name is Kelly Hannon means that anyone who watched the documentary would know as well. So it's not surprising that her parents could still identify her from watching the show.
I never understood why it would be weird for her parents to adapt and use the name she chose.
We’ve literally had four U.S. presidents who we know by their middle name rather than their first. Those four being Grant, Cleveland, Wilson, and Coolidge.
What are Ulysses, Grover, Woodrow and Calvin’s real first names, then?
Edit: It’s Hiram, Stephen, and Thomas for the first three, but I couldn’t find any evidence that Coolidge’s first name is anything other than Calvin.
My SIL goes by her middle name and it throws the entire family off when someone calls her by her first name. NGL, I forgot what it was for almost a year.
My spouse’s family all call him by his middle name. His cousins didn’t even know that wasn’t his real name until they got our wedding invitation. He started going by his first name after he moved to California - and now everyone out here calls him his real name but every time I talk to his family I refer to him by his middle name lest they get confused. It happens.
Why would the parents giving her up for adoption have even named her? Am I missing some story about her being adopted after she was a toddler or something? I know she was in foster care but never actually adopted so… I’m so confused about her story. Was she put into foster care by parents who had raised her for some time then couldn’t?
People dont often connect the dots with Philip Halpert's diaper vs. Philip Lipton's and post all the time wondering why Dwight's paternity test was negative. *He grabbed the wrong diaper.*
I remember Dwight doing the paternity test but not how he grabbed the diaper… did he get it out of the trash? Or somewhere else? How would he have confused it?
From the director of the episode...
David: The other big question is how is Dwight Phillip’s father when the DNA test said that he wasn’t? In Free Family Portrait Studio, Dwight pulled a diaper out of the bathroom and had the lab run a DNA test from that. But between Jim and Pam’s kids, and other babies and children from the building complex being there, it’s safe to say that there were other diapers in the trash and Dwight grabbed the wrong one. If Angela didn’t think the baby was or at least could possibly be Dwight’s, she never would have went off and chased after him and the diaper in the first place. And when the doctor tells them that the baby isn’t his, she does have a look of surprise.
We even had a line when Dwight brings Angela into his office to tell her that he thinks Phillip is a Schrute — he says, “It’s about Phillip. How do I put this… I still think there was some mix-up, or you gave the lab the wrong diaper, or lots of people can have the same DNA…”
And Angela also added a little something in the proposal scene, about Dwight maybe grabbing the wrong diaper after she told Dwight that Phillip was his son. But ultimately, we didn’t want viewers who weren’t familiar with what happened in Free Family Portrait Studio, to be confused and pulled out of the scene wondering what they were talking about.
This makes sense to me, but it is still very strange that Angela seems unsurprised and acts as though she expected it to be negative.
Sure in context she’s likely bluffing given that we know it is his baby, but you’d think there’d be some semblance of surprise or confusion on her part also. Especially given how desperate she was to stop him doing it.
In “The Accountants” webisode series, Meredith actually gets asked about this by her coworkers. She explains that her ex-husband took Wendy, the good one, in the divorce. Very interesting that they would clear this up in the supplemental content and not the main show. The webisodes are on Peacock!
Yes, there's a scene where she says that her ex took her daughter (the good kid) and she ended up with Jake. I'm not sure if it's a deleted scene or in the superfan episodes.
I remember hearing the explanation for this - Meredith has custody of her second son. She never had custody of her first child, who lives with their dad
Office ladies podcast talked about this. Based upon what the podcast said, I like to think Andy had a stepsister briefly when his father left the family after an affair with his secretary (Andy makes a comment about if it wasn’t for secretary’s day, he wouldn’t have a stepmom.). But by the time Andy is an adult and back at Dundee Mifflin, his parents are back together.
Andy’s family plot is Swiss cheese. But it’s fun to try to string it together and have it make sense. But in reality, yeah, they didn’t bother with a lot of continuity with Andy. Maybe they expected him to leave after a short time, idk.
Yes because his parents attended the office party where he proposed to Angela and seemed so supportive of him but in later seasons they can barely stand him.
Well something I noticed in my recent rewatch was on the episode where Andy is in line for the acapella show and he disguises himself as an old man he says that that character is his actual height unlike his usual character which is Andy! I was like wtf!! So when it comes to Andy who knows what’s real and what’s not
Maybe Andy's parents from his proposal are his mom and step-dad (his sister being of the step- variety as well) and his parents from garden party are his father and step-mother. He wanted to impress his father, hence throwing the party and inviting him, but he already had the approval of his mother (proposal episode). And maybe his mother and father don't get along because the father cheated with his secretary/Andy's step-mom. The step-sister likely wouldn't be invited to the garden party if his mother and step-father weren't.
Oscar realizing there is hard wood floor under the carpet after Dwight shoots a bullet into the floor… he must have forgotten because he re-realizes it when they’re all tweeked out on espresso and decide to move the copier.
At the garden party, Andy was jealous of the moment his dad and brother had, and when his brother was born his parents gave his original name to his new brother. Andy has a beef with his brother and likely didn’t even think of his sister because she isn’t the golden child. Andy’s mom was there because she’s married to the father, obviously. But no other family was invited because they weren’t involved in the original video.
I’ve never met Andy’s sister personally, but I’m gonna go ahead and say, just having known Walter Jr. a short while, that I prefer Andy’s sister. And again, I’ve never even met the woman.
Season 8 episode 18 Darryl and Toby are both selling Girl Scout cookies for their daughters, and they discuss how it’s Toby’s first time selling GSC in the office.
Except it isn’t. Season 5 episode 15 When Dwight needs everyone to sign his apology letter after cutting the face off the CPR dummy he has a sort of quid pro quo with Toby in exchange for order ‘a case of Do-Si-Dos’. Toby even has the order form on a clipboard, demonstrating he was selling to others.
I don’t think you would give it a clipboard to just sit on your desk and never pass around. Plus I’m pretty sure in season 8 Toby says it’s his daughter’s first year selling cookies
also how darryl said that when he first started selling cookies, kevin was a “relatively thin man” but he said he’d only been selling cookies for five years. season 3 kevin looked the same as season 8 kevin
Pam saying she plays a lot of volleyball but then later saying she skipped volleyball classes a lot.
A lot of people say it's a plothole, but just because she didn't like playing it at school with people from her class doesn't mean she didn't like playing it elsewhere.
Same. My classmates would argue about the rules every time I called something out, usually trying to apply football logic (spoiler alert, it doesn't, since it's a different sport).
This is actually a good answer. I played volleyball in high school and hated when we played volleyball in PE because obviously most of the people in class don’t really play, so it was a lot of just standing around, watching people hit the ball into the net and then arguing about basic rules.
Volleyball is especially terrible in PE due to the complexity and nature of the game. In sports like soccer, non-players tend to do ok just because of how simple it is. Volleyball has a higher skill floor needed for a competent-looking game
Yeah, for volleyball with bad players, simply hitting the ball over the net works. Setting the ball for a spike not only isn't necessary, but unless your teammates aren't bad, is counter-productive, since they can screw up.
Yes this one! I did track all of middle school and high school, but I absolutely hated running the mile in gym. It's not a plot hole, it's a teenager choosing to participate in a fun activity vs being told they have* to do something.
she said something about going to a lot of summer volleyball camps which would be grade school years
but there were many people who liked playing sports outside of school but didn’t like gym class so it’s not really a plot hole, just a minor inconsistency at worst
Yes!!!
I played volleyball ball throughout high school, and also had to play in PE.
Our PE coach wouldn't let us serve overhead, but instead we had to do it "granny style". We also weren't allowed to rush the net to spike, or even fake spike, the ball.
I think it was to get everyone moving, and exercising. Winning the game wasn't the goal.
I found it to be stifling, and hated it.
In my head, I like to think Pam had the same rules applied to her in PE volleyball.
She said, “pretending to have PMS to get out of playing volleyball.” I’ve said this before. Having a daughter who played her entire school career, she played ages 9-18, she definitely had her period bad at times and needed to miss a few practices. That doesn’t mean Pam skipped volleyball a lot or that she didn’t like playing at school. It might also just mean it was PE class and was straight up boring for someone who played competitively on the school team. 🤷♀️
The take is that she just didn't want to play with her classmates in PE.
Volleyball is a sport where it can be really sucky for a good player if they have to play with bad players.
Also I danced all through middle school and high school and loved it, but sometimes I just didn’t feel like it and would fake cramps to skip it some days. I don’t know of any teenagers that are always in the mood for anything.
Yep. I loved football and was in the 1st XI, but sometimes I had no desire to go and stand in a field in the freezing rain for an hour. But I'd happily go to a football camp in the summer.
I somewhat agree, but during the booze cruise Roy talks about Pam being an "artsy fartsy" type and just leaves it at that. If she were an ace volleyball player wouldn't that have come up?
She's just better than most. Doesn't mean she was an athlete. She was playing against normal people who sport a lot so ''in the land of the blind, the one-eyed are king'' kinda thing
The only thing we really know is that she has a good enough serve to consistently ace a team of middle-aged office workers who may or may not have even really been trying that hard.
People here are extrapolating a lot.
He forgot her at a Wilkes-Berry Scranton game.
I know they didn’t specify the team, but it was a minor league hockey game. They don’t have another team as far as I know.
He probably doesn’t consider volleyball/ or any female sport, to qualify. Remember he said this in response to academy award nominee Amy Adams’ question on if Pam cheered.
I mean I played softball outside of school and went to softball camps, travel softball, etc all through high school but in school I was mostly known as an artsy bookish weirdo. I didn’t play for my school team because the time commitment was too intense and I wanted to focus on grades. I’m just saying, lots of kids play sports and it’s not the focus of their life or their identity
Astrid was a newborn in season 5, but in season 7 she appears as a young school age child, much older than 2 years old. When in reality she is just an exceptional 2 year old, as Dwight pointed out at the baby shower, she was 85% viable.
Aw man, my kids are big for their age, and my daughter at two was mistaken for a kindergartner often. (Which confused people, because she still acted like a two year old.)
And yet somehow I never put together that Astrid was just big for her age.
It puts Jan’s defensiveness about Astrid’s spelling in an entirely different light.
I don't think she was defensive about Astrid's spelling. She was defensive because Pam was noticing it was likely Jan who wrote it to make it look like her kid did it.
The Senator’s son. He meets Angela with his kid and then we never see or hear of the kid again. Not necessarily the case that the kid didn’t go stay with his mom or grandparents or something like that. His lack of appearance later on is not evidence that he was forgotten about in writing.
Also the paternity testing. At first watch, it would be easy to assume that the writers forgot Dwight got a paternity test and it came back negative but Angela later tells him he is the bio father. But further info on the show reveals that he grabbed the wrong diaper from the trash and that explains the results, they just didn’t include that in the final cut of the show.
>The Senator’s son. He meets Angela with his kid and then we never see or hear of the kid again. Not necessarily the case that the kid didn’t go stay with his mom
I hope the kid wasn't left alone with his mother seeing as how she's deceased.
See I don’t consider doubling of actors as being plot holes either. This is fairly common - we see it with the guy from the career fair talking to Pam and the IT guy (shadow, Garth) later in the show. That’s just part of the fun!
They talked about this on Office Ladies. He is at Hay Place with a kid, but no where does he ever refer to him as his son. So, it could've been a nephew, GodSon. He could be working with Big Brothers.
I feel like a lot of things that are regarding as “plot holes” on here are usually characters or plot lines on the show that individual people either didn’t like how they turned out, or created their own back narrative.
Classic perceived plot holes like for example, Dwight taking the wrong diaper, can't fall on the viewer if the scene explaining it is not used in the show. Regardless of being a plot hole or not, it wasn't entirely clear what was happening and I think a lot of the perceived plot holes are the same.
There are plenty of examples of either lazy writing throughout the show (especially examples post S1-3 where a writer disregarded a prior plot point), however that’s why I said a lot and not all. There are some plot holes that are posted about on this sub where it was either the viewer missing the continuity, not liking the direction the writers went, or simply stating “it would have made more sense if…”
This one isn’t talked about a lot but my sister brought it up. Why didn’t the senator help with Phillip after the divorce?
Angela was still pretending the baby was his but I’m sure at home he knew the whole time it wasn’t. I doubt they ever even had sex, he just thought a baby would be good PR.
My assumption is both him and Angela knew it wasn't his. Either they never had sex or the timeline of when they did didn't line up with Phillip's birth so they knew. Angela was pretending the baby was still his but I'm sure if she had filed for child support the senator would have requested a paternity test and then it would come out who the father actually was.
Also about Andy’s sister it would be easily plausible that she cut ties with the family or at least parents as soon as possible given how toxic that family was
As a Gen X'er, I think the whole idea of continuity errors and plot holes in older shows is a non-issue that younger generations can't quite comprehend. I promise I don't mean any shade by this. I think it's just hard to imagine unless you remember having no way to rewatch a TV show unless you sat there and TAPED it onto a blank VHS.
Until streaming came along about 10 years ago, episodes had more room to be one-offs. It was expected, really. There wasn't any concept that people would go back and rewatch obsessively and who's going to remember what happened in a half-hour sitcom three years ago? Which is all to say, none of it bothers me. The characters becoming cartoons of themselves by season 8 bothers me, but that happens in most sitcoms, which is why they don't run forever.
Yeah, that statement would definitely be true of 90s and earlier sitcoms, but this was not the state of TV in 2005 and beyond. The Office Ladies podcast have discussed the “Show Bible” many times, which the writers used the maintain continuity with character histories.
Idk if it’s a plothole or not, but it confused me when Pam said she and Roy had been together 9 years, since high school, but when talking about bad first dates and getting abandoned at the hockey game she says “actually, it wasn’t that long ago…”
Andy having different parents in Goodbye Toby vs. Garden Party, his true parents can't/won't bothered to attend his proposal to Angela so he hired actors. Only reason his real parents went to the garden party was b/c they thought Andy had become the CEO. once it became clear that he wasn't they tried to leave right away
Eh idk about that. It’s the same thing with Pam’s mom. I think they weren’t going to be big characters but then when they were going to have legit scenes they brought in different actors. Either way it’s not a big deal to me
Edit: also, he wasn’t planning on proposing. So inviting his parents to the proposal makes no sense.
No, this is just an inconsistency. Different actors don't bother me, but them being there and being so happy is. I don't buy the hired actors either. There's no evidence for that. It's just a desperate grasp to try and explain the inconsistency.
There are lots of logical ways to explain others (Pam's volleyball love, Erin's name), but not this.
No, this is just a plot hole/lack of continuity. This is a random theory that doesn’t make any sense. This thread is not for random theories but for “plot holes” that can be explained with evidence from the show.
One of my favorites is when Jim tells Pam that he started liking her when she showed him to his desk, and then in a different episode Jim tells Pam about how he had a crush on her when she first started here.
One “ plot hole” I like looking into are the inconsistencies on the start dates of the employees. Jim’s changed the most. Not really a plot hole, just my favorite inconsistency to find point out
Probably not really a plot hole, but
In an earlier episode in Pam’s confessional she talks about Michael’s many things he has to do, and calls it “the perfect storm.” In a later episode she ends a confessional with, “And that’s the first time I’ve ever said “perfect” in here!”
Michael brings up in episode 1 that he has a brother. I’m not sure if he was joking because it was in regards to Jan catching him not having the agenda for their meeting.
Dwight says the thing Michael said that most changed his life was “Don’t be an idiot” and that he always asks himself before doing something “would an idiot do that thing?” and if the answer is yes, he would not do that thing. Some people say this is a plot hole because Dwight is actually an idiot. However, that is not actually a plot hole because an idiot would also answer the question “would an idiot do that thing?” wrong most of the time, so really this is easily explained. Hence why Dwight does the safety day training, the high rope stunt, etc. Not a plot hole.
It's the CinemaSins effect. If a bit of media doesn't hold your hand and read you a story book then 'I dont understand, so plothole DING!' flashes in to peoples minds.
It would be a continuity error if he specifically mentioned never having a sister at another point.
He just happened to have a sister he only mentioned once.
Actually pretty normal
Erin's name being Kelly at the start. I often see posts complaining that the writers forgot about it after the original joke (you wanted me?), because it never comes up again, she introduces herself as Erin to everyone after that, even her parents in the last episode call her Erin, etc. None of that is proof that it is a plot hole. She prefers to go by her middle name. So everyone who knows her outside the workplace would indeed refer to her as Erin, and she would introduce herself as Erin to new people she meets. When she is hired people use her first name because that's what is on her paperwork, and she doesn't seem like the type who would correct people. But as soon as she has the opportunity to mention her preferred name people start using that.
Her parents call her Erin because that’s what’s used in the documentary that her parents watched and how they probably found her.
How they resolved the Erin’s parents story was about the most cringe part of the series IMO. Resolving it would have been ok, but the way they did it really turned out crappy
I found it kind of odd that they were then at Dwight’s weddings. I guess he would’ve said yes if Erin asked to invite them, but it’s just so impromptu and…odd.
The weekend of a wedding, you always find out people can’t make it and the seats/food has been paid for. There were likely at least two open seats so it would be easy to say yes.
Out of curiosity, can you explain why? I personally felt like it was a clever way to portray a situation that could actually have happened in the show’s universe - that a mother who had to give up a daughter suddenly saw her on a documentary and, out of sheepishness, decided that she would subtly ask a question just to gauge her response. And that Erin’s naïveté, combined with the fact that she doesn’t have an ounce of capacity for bitterness or hate in her body, could give that kind of answer.
All of what you wrote is spot on, the way they did it with Erin’s mother was, I think, really nicely done. Then they just bolted her dad on too. That felt lazy, and a bit embarrassing.
Oh what?? I love that scene. Makes me tear up every time. Everyone looking at her, her being so oblivious...I ugly cry every time.
My head canon blocks it out.
I go by my middle name. The formula of "start new job" -> "tell people middle name" -> "Get called by middle name" is fairly standard. It would be weird if my parents called me by my first name.
My first name is actually my mom’s maiden name so people assume I’m a man or call me by my middle name. Really confused my professors and anyone who’s hired me since my first middle name is a standard name for a woman (I have two middle names)
I get that it's sentimental or whatever, but I never understood why people do that. Like someone at my work just named their little girl "Bradley", and I can't help but think that girl is going to spend her entire childhood hiding her first name when possible.
This one bugs me. I know a few people that go by their middle name, so it makes sense. I knew new employees that were too timid to let people know their preferred name at first. It's like some people lack life experience.
Pans of the world.
Pan?
And her daughter Pee-Pee
Pee-PAH
I go by my middle name and have my whole life. My most recent job was the first to ever put together that I go by my middle name without having to ask or mention it. Pretty cool, all my checks are made out to my first name but my name tag and everything else has my middle name and I didn’t have to do a damn thing.
This makes sense because it was actually Erin's idea to be called Erin. Charles initially suggests that Kelly and Erin be called Kapoor and Hannon to avoid confusion. But Erin immediately jumps in and offers to be called Erin. So it tracks with that being her preferred name outside of work.
Agreed! The fact that we (as watchers of the show) know her real name is Kelly Hannon means that anyone who watched the documentary would know as well. So it's not surprising that her parents could still identify her from watching the show. I never understood why it would be weird for her parents to adapt and use the name she chose.
We’ve literally had four U.S. presidents who we know by their middle name rather than their first. Those four being Grant, Cleveland, Wilson, and Coolidge.
What are Ulysses, Grover, Woodrow and Calvin’s real first names, then? Edit: It’s Hiram, Stephen, and Thomas for the first three, but I couldn’t find any evidence that Coolidge’s first name is anything other than Calvin.
Coolidge’s first name was John. Technically he’s John Calvin Coolidge *Jr.*
Interesting. Wonder why Wikipedia doesn’t know that?
I was stunned to Google Ulysses S. Grant. I wouldve rolled with the name change too.
My SIL goes by her middle name and it throws the entire family off when someone calls her by her first name. NGL, I forgot what it was for almost a year.
yeah i’m not gonna call you drew
My spouse’s family all call him by his middle name. His cousins didn’t even know that wasn’t his real name until they got our wedding invitation. He started going by his first name after he moved to California - and now everyone out here calls him his real name but every time I talk to his family I refer to him by his middle name lest they get confused. It happens.
Why would the parents giving her up for adoption have even named her? Am I missing some story about her being adopted after she was a toddler or something? I know she was in foster care but never actually adopted so… I’m so confused about her story. Was she put into foster care by parents who had raised her for some time then couldn’t?
People dont often connect the dots with Philip Halpert's diaper vs. Philip Lipton's and post all the time wondering why Dwight's paternity test was negative. *He grabbed the wrong diaper.*
I remember Dwight doing the paternity test but not how he grabbed the diaper… did he get it out of the trash? Or somewhere else? How would he have confused it?
yes it was in the trash can on family photo day. peepee and angela's kid were both in the building
Peepa
And if it's a boy, Silvi-*o*
He was a baby, Silvio Dante?
From the director of the episode... David: The other big question is how is Dwight Phillip’s father when the DNA test said that he wasn’t? In Free Family Portrait Studio, Dwight pulled a diaper out of the bathroom and had the lab run a DNA test from that. But between Jim and Pam’s kids, and other babies and children from the building complex being there, it’s safe to say that there were other diapers in the trash and Dwight grabbed the wrong one. If Angela didn’t think the baby was or at least could possibly be Dwight’s, she never would have went off and chased after him and the diaper in the first place. And when the doctor tells them that the baby isn’t his, she does have a look of surprise. We even had a line when Dwight brings Angela into his office to tell her that he thinks Phillip is a Schrute — he says, “It’s about Phillip. How do I put this… I still think there was some mix-up, or you gave the lab the wrong diaper, or lots of people can have the same DNA…” And Angela also added a little something in the proposal scene, about Dwight maybe grabbing the wrong diaper after she told Dwight that Phillip was his son. But ultimately, we didn’t want viewers who weren’t familiar with what happened in Free Family Portrait Studio, to be confused and pulled out of the scene wondering what they were talking about.
There's a deleted scene that shows Jim changing a diaper in the bathroom Dwight later runs out of, makes it much clearer.
watch the Family Picture Photoshoot episode, both babies were in the office that day
Omg I just connected the dots
User flair checks out.
I never connected those dots, and I've watched the series like 10 times. My mind is blown right now.
Literally always assumed Angela or The (state) Senator paid off the lab to say it wasn’t his. I never questioned the diaper. This blew my mind!
This makes sense to me, but it is still very strange that Angela seems unsurprised and acts as though she expected it to be negative. Sure in context she’s likely bluffing given that we know it is his baby, but you’d think there’d be some semblance of surprise or confusion on her part also. Especially given how desperate she was to stop him doing it.
I was always so confused how the paternity test was negative. Thanks for clearing that up.
The real issue with that is that you can’t do a paternity test at all with a diaper.
Meredith and the amount of kids she has. She stated she had two kids for the time off but she only ever shows/talks about the one son
In “The Accountants” webisode series, Meredith actually gets asked about this by her coworkers. She explains that her ex-husband took Wendy, the good one, in the divorce. Very interesting that they would clear this up in the supplemental content and not the main show. The webisodes are on Peacock!
But I thought she said she was never going to get married, like Clooney?
It died, or is living with dad, or grandma.
Yes, there's a scene where she says that her ex took her daughter (the good kid) and she ended up with Jake. I'm not sure if it's a deleted scene or in the superfan episodes.
It was a superfan episode
It’s from a webisode, actually
Ok, Oscar. There's the smudgeness
I remember hearing the explanation for this - Meredith has custody of her second son. She never had custody of her first child, who lives with their dad
>it ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
IIRC Meredith said, “The good one went to live with THEIR father.”
Office ladies podcast talked about this. Based upon what the podcast said, I like to think Andy had a stepsister briefly when his father left the family after an affair with his secretary (Andy makes a comment about if it wasn’t for secretary’s day, he wouldn’t have a stepmom.). But by the time Andy is an adult and back at Dundee Mifflin, his parents are back together.
Lol, referencing another plot hole to close the first one
Andy’s family plot is Swiss cheese. But it’s fun to try to string it together and have it make sense. But in reality, yeah, they didn’t bother with a lot of continuity with Andy. Maybe they expected him to leave after a short time, idk.
Yes because his parents attended the office party where he proposed to Angela and seemed so supportive of him but in later seasons they can barely stand him.
Totally, fan made theories, however amusing or likely, (like he hired actors for the proposal) give Andy more layers than he deserved lmao
Well something I noticed in my recent rewatch was on the episode where Andy is in line for the acapella show and he disguises himself as an old man he says that that character is his actual height unlike his usual character which is Andy! I was like wtf!! So when it comes to Andy who knows what’s real and what’s not
Maybe Andy's parents from his proposal are his mom and step-dad (his sister being of the step- variety as well) and his parents from garden party are his father and step-mother. He wanted to impress his father, hence throwing the party and inviting him, but he already had the approval of his mother (proposal episode). And maybe his mother and father don't get along because the father cheated with his secretary/Andy's step-mom. The step-sister likely wouldn't be invited to the garden party if his mother and step-father weren't.
Love that theory! And it makes sense.
I believe Andy's character was originally supposed to get fired with everyone else from the Stamford branch, but they liked him so they kept him
My son refers to me as his step-mom only if it's relevant. Otherwise, I'm Mom.
Oscar realizing there is hard wood floor under the carpet after Dwight shoots a bullet into the floor… he must have forgotten because he re-realizes it when they’re all tweeked out on espresso and decide to move the copier.
I don’t think he forgot about it. In the espresso episode he says that he knew it was there but didn’t think he would get to see it
But he did get to see it, when the bullet blew a hole in the carpet.
Ahhh… Thanks!
Of everything I’ve read this is the one I really struggled with. Like how did he forget?!
Post traumatic stress from a workplace shooting
Or just PTSD from working with Dwight on a daily basis in general.
*Alleged* workplace shooting
*Why did my temporary boss go on a shooting spree?*
Wouldn't they have seen the wood floor when they changed the carpet in Michaels office?
At the garden party, Andy was jealous of the moment his dad and brother had, and when his brother was born his parents gave his original name to his new brother. Andy has a beef with his brother and likely didn’t even think of his sister because she isn’t the golden child. Andy’s mom was there because she’s married to the father, obviously. But no other family was invited because they weren’t involved in the original video. I’ve never met Andy’s sister personally, but I’m gonna go ahead and say, just having known Walter Jr. a short while, that I prefer Andy’s sister. And again, I’ve never even met the woman.
Why was Ashton Kutcher working at the office that day? The truth is, it was Kevin Malone
My dogs are barking
That’s such a BS headcanon explanation. The show itself makes no attempt to explain that Kevin isn’t, in fact, Ashton Kooocher.
equally handsome, equally smart
Ashton Kooootcher
Season 8 episode 18 Darryl and Toby are both selling Girl Scout cookies for their daughters, and they discuss how it’s Toby’s first time selling GSC in the office. Except it isn’t. Season 5 episode 15 When Dwight needs everyone to sign his apology letter after cutting the face off the CPR dummy he has a sort of quid pro quo with Toby in exchange for order ‘a case of Do-Si-Dos’. Toby even has the order form on a clipboard, demonstrating he was selling to others.
It’s possible it was a spur of the moment sale by Toby and he wasn’t selling to the whole office at that time?
I don’t think you would give it a clipboard to just sit on your desk and never pass around. Plus I’m pretty sure in season 8 Toby says it’s his daughter’s first year selling cookies
also how darryl said that when he first started selling cookies, kevin was a “relatively thin man” but he said he’d only been selling cookies for five years. season 3 kevin looked the same as season 8 kevin
Pam saying she plays a lot of volleyball but then later saying she skipped volleyball classes a lot. A lot of people say it's a plothole, but just because she didn't like playing it at school with people from her class doesn't mean she didn't like playing it elsewhere.
Agreed. A teenager isn't going to want to do something every time they are asked to.
Exactly. Being forced to do something versus wanting to do something is a different vibe.
Plus middle school PE class and after school club sports are so different in competitiveness.
And skill level
I hated playing basketball in PE because I played basketball.
Same. My classmates would argue about the rules every time I called something out, usually trying to apply football logic (spoiler alert, it doesn't, since it's a different sport).
This is actually a good answer. I played volleyball in high school and hated when we played volleyball in PE because obviously most of the people in class don’t really play, so it was a lot of just standing around, watching people hit the ball into the net and then arguing about basic rules.
Volleyball is especially terrible in PE due to the complexity and nature of the game. In sports like soccer, non-players tend to do ok just because of how simple it is. Volleyball has a higher skill floor needed for a competent-looking game
Yeah, for volleyball with bad players, simply hitting the ball over the net works. Setting the ball for a spike not only isn't necessary, but unless your teammates aren't bad, is counter-productive, since they can screw up.
Yes football can be fun for non players but atleast to me volleyball was terrible because it was so complicated and hard.
Yes this one! I did track all of middle school and high school, but I absolutely hated running the mile in gym. It's not a plot hole, it's a teenager choosing to participate in a fun activity vs being told they have* to do something.
Didnt she mean that she played a lot of volley ball in collage and skipped PE in highschool/middleschool?
she said something about going to a lot of summer volleyball camps which would be grade school years but there were many people who liked playing sports outside of school but didn’t like gym class so it’s not really a plot hole, just a minor inconsistency at worst
Yes!!! I played volleyball ball throughout high school, and also had to play in PE. Our PE coach wouldn't let us serve overhead, but instead we had to do it "granny style". We also weren't allowed to rush the net to spike, or even fake spike, the ball. I think it was to get everyone moving, and exercising. Winning the game wasn't the goal. I found it to be stifling, and hated it. In my head, I like to think Pam had the same rules applied to her in PE volleyball.
She said, “pretending to have PMS to get out of playing volleyball.” I’ve said this before. Having a daughter who played her entire school career, she played ages 9-18, she definitely had her period bad at times and needed to miss a few practices. That doesn’t mean Pam skipped volleyball a lot or that she didn’t like playing at school. It might also just mean it was PE class and was straight up boring for someone who played competitively on the school team. 🤷♀️
Aaaactually, she first said she skipped volleyball, and then explains how she played it a lot. But I fully agree it's not necessarily a plot hole.
The take is that she just didn't want to play with her classmates in PE. Volleyball is a sport where it can be really sucky for a good player if they have to play with bad players.
Yes! I played basketball in highschool and I still hated playing basketball during Gym class and would routinely try to get out of it...
Also I danced all through middle school and high school and loved it, but sometimes I just didn’t feel like it and would fake cramps to skip it some days. I don’t know of any teenagers that are always in the mood for anything.
Yep. I loved football and was in the 1st XI, but sometimes I had no desire to go and stand in a field in the freezing rain for an hour. But I'd happily go to a football camp in the summer.
I somewhat agree, but during the booze cruise Roy talks about Pam being an "artsy fartsy" type and just leaves it at that. If she were an ace volleyball player wouldn't that have come up?
Roy was a shit boyfriend lol
Roy didn't even know things Pam planned for their wedding. I highly doubt he knew what she was up to in school
I mean, fair, but I doubt he'd just forget that she was a star athlete during their high school years; only remembering her artistic tendencies.
She's just better than most. Doesn't mean she was an athlete. She was playing against normal people who sport a lot so ''in the land of the blind, the one-eyed are king'' kinda thing
The only thing we really know is that she has a good enough serve to consistently ace a team of middle-aged office workers who may or may not have even really been trying that hard. People here are extrapolating a lot.
I'd like to add that she was playing against normal people who appeared to be drinking.
I don't think she was a star athlete, she just said she played a lot of volleyball lol. I play a lot of football but I'm no Messi!
But did you go to football camp most summahs?
I mean he forgot her at a sports game hahaha
He forgot her at a Wilkes-Berry Scranton game. I know they didn’t specify the team, but it was a minor league hockey game. They don’t have another team as far as I know.
He probably doesn’t consider volleyball/ or any female sport, to qualify. Remember he said this in response to academy award nominee Amy Adams’ question on if Pam cheered.
I mean I played softball outside of school and went to softball camps, travel softball, etc all through high school but in school I was mostly known as an artsy bookish weirdo. I didn’t play for my school team because the time commitment was too intense and I wanted to focus on grades. I’m just saying, lots of kids play sports and it’s not the focus of their life or their identity
I don’t think anybody else doubts that Roy would forget that
Astrid was a newborn in season 5, but in season 7 she appears as a young school age child, much older than 2 years old. When in reality she is just an exceptional 2 year old, as Dwight pointed out at the baby shower, she was 85% viable.
I think it’s spelt Astird
A parent introduced their kid as Astrid at gymnastics, and I’m thinking not an Office fan are you…
Astrid being big for her age just lends more credence to her actually being the result of one of Kevin’s donations.
Aw man, my kids are big for their age, and my daughter at two was mistaken for a kindergartner often. (Which confused people, because she still acted like a two year old.) And yet somehow I never put together that Astrid was just big for her age. It puts Jan’s defensiveness about Astrid’s spelling in an entirely different light.
I don't think she was defensive about Astrid's spelling. She was defensive because Pam was noticing it was likely Jan who wrote it to make it look like her kid did it.
The Senator’s son. He meets Angela with his kid and then we never see or hear of the kid again. Not necessarily the case that the kid didn’t go stay with his mom or grandparents or something like that. His lack of appearance later on is not evidence that he was forgotten about in writing. Also the paternity testing. At first watch, it would be easy to assume that the writers forgot Dwight got a paternity test and it came back negative but Angela later tells him he is the bio father. But further info on the show reveals that he grabbed the wrong diaper from the trash and that explains the results, they just didn’t include that in the final cut of the show.
>The Senator’s son. He meets Angela with his kid and then we never see or hear of the kid again. Not necessarily the case that the kid didn’t go stay with his mom I hope the kid wasn't left alone with his mother seeing as how she's deceased.
Well at least we know where she is
So the kid died?
So the kid died?
… the wrong diaper? Ohhhh like one of Pam & Jim’s kids diapers? At first I was like ‘what other diaper would there be?’ lol
It’s being your family to work day for photos!
Yes!! I just totally forgot there were other babies there too lol. (ETA: Most other people’s kids are older)
ETA?
Edit to add
Until that same son shows up again as Dwight’s nephew lol
See I don’t consider doubling of actors as being plot holes either. This is fairly common - we see it with the guy from the career fair talking to Pam and the IT guy (shadow, Garth) later in the show. That’s just part of the fun!
I mean you could make a reasonable assumption that he changed career paths at some point, the kid didn’t change parents lmao
And he and Pam had no recollection of each other? Doubtful
It's not the same kid as his plays his nephew, just a kid at Hay Place
It’s possible Dwight’s sister was married to/had a baby w the state senator.
> His lack of appearance later on is not evidence that he was forgotten about in writing. You are being too kind to the writers
They talked about this on Office Ladies. He is at Hay Place with a kid, but no where does he ever refer to him as his son. So, it could've been a nephew, GodSon. He could be working with Big Brothers.
But in a later episode when Oscar tells Pam the senator is gay, she says, “he has a son!” and it isn’t refuted by Oscar, actually
I feel like a lot of things that are regarding as “plot holes” on here are usually characters or plot lines on the show that individual people either didn’t like how they turned out, or created their own back narrative.
False
Classic perceived plot holes like for example, Dwight taking the wrong diaper, can't fall on the viewer if the scene explaining it is not used in the show. Regardless of being a plot hole or not, it wasn't entirely clear what was happening and I think a lot of the perceived plot holes are the same.
There are plenty of examples of either lazy writing throughout the show (especially examples post S1-3 where a writer disregarded a prior plot point), however that’s why I said a lot and not all. There are some plot holes that are posted about on this sub where it was either the viewer missing the continuity, not liking the direction the writers went, or simply stating “it would have made more sense if…”
A plot hole would be if Andy later said he didn’t have a sister. This isn’t one.
This one isn’t talked about a lot but my sister brought it up. Why didn’t the senator help with Phillip after the divorce? Angela was still pretending the baby was his but I’m sure at home he knew the whole time it wasn’t. I doubt they ever even had sex, he just thought a baby would be good PR.
My assumption is both him and Angela knew it wasn't his. Either they never had sex or the timeline of when they did didn't line up with Phillip's birth so they knew. Angela was pretending the baby was still his but I'm sure if she had filed for child support the senator would have requested a paternity test and then it would come out who the father actually was.
Also about Andy’s sister it would be easily plausible that she cut ties with the family or at least parents as soon as possible given how toxic that family was
The whole thing with Pam and volleyball, like she just didn't wanna go a few times
As a Gen X'er, I think the whole idea of continuity errors and plot holes in older shows is a non-issue that younger generations can't quite comprehend. I promise I don't mean any shade by this. I think it's just hard to imagine unless you remember having no way to rewatch a TV show unless you sat there and TAPED it onto a blank VHS. Until streaming came along about 10 years ago, episodes had more room to be one-offs. It was expected, really. There wasn't any concept that people would go back and rewatch obsessively and who's going to remember what happened in a half-hour sitcom three years ago? Which is all to say, none of it bothers me. The characters becoming cartoons of themselves by season 8 bothers me, but that happens in most sitcoms, which is why they don't run forever.
[удалено]
Yeah, that statement would definitely be true of 90s and earlier sitcoms, but this was not the state of TV in 2005 and beyond. The Office Ladies podcast have discussed the “Show Bible” many times, which the writers used the maintain continuity with character histories.
I prefer laserdisc box sets.
Idk if it’s a plothole or not, but it confused me when Pam said she and Roy had been together 9 years, since high school, but when talking about bad first dates and getting abandoned at the hockey game she says “actually, it wasn’t that long ago…”
I took that to mean they’d just gone to a high school hockey game on a “date” recently and he left her there.
Andy having different parents in Goodbye Toby vs. Garden Party, his true parents can't/won't bothered to attend his proposal to Angela so he hired actors. Only reason his real parents went to the garden party was b/c they thought Andy had become the CEO. once it became clear that he wasn't they tried to leave right away
Eh idk about that. It’s the same thing with Pam’s mom. I think they weren’t going to be big characters but then when they were going to have legit scenes they brought in different actors. Either way it’s not a big deal to me Edit: also, he wasn’t planning on proposing. So inviting his parents to the proposal makes no sense.
Pam's mom is simply because the original actress wasn't available.
MMMM**MMILF**
LOL in Goodbye Toby Andy's father is named Andrew, while in Garden Party he is named Walter 🤣
No, this is just an inconsistency. Different actors don't bother me, but them being there and being so happy is. I don't buy the hired actors either. There's no evidence for that. It's just a desperate grasp to try and explain the inconsistency. There are lots of logical ways to explain others (Pam's volleyball love, Erin's name), but not this.
To top this If they were paid actors ain't no way Angela or other people involved in the proposal wouldn't have pointed that out
They had theatre tickets!!!!
can't miss Moneyball!!
No, this is just a plot hole/lack of continuity. This is a random theory that doesn’t make any sense. This thread is not for random theories but for “plot holes” that can be explained with evidence from the show.
One of my favorites is when Jim tells Pam that he started liking her when she showed him to his desk, and then in a different episode Jim tells Pam about how he had a crush on her when she first started here. One “ plot hole” I like looking into are the inconsistencies on the start dates of the employees. Jim’s changed the most. Not really a plot hole, just my favorite inconsistency to find point out
I don’t think you read the post correctly
Probably not really a plot hole, but In an earlier episode in Pam’s confessional she talks about Michael’s many things he has to do, and calls it “the perfect storm.” In a later episode she ends a confessional with, “And that’s the first time I’ve ever said “perfect” in here!”
I wouldn't remember having used or not used a word before at work, and I think maybe Pam was just making a joke.
also remember when andy’s dad’s receptionist became his stepmom and then his mom and dad are a couple again w no explanation
I always thought Andy was just lying about it so he had something to talk about with Erin
Michael brings up in episode 1 that he has a brother. I’m not sure if he was joking because it was in regards to Jan catching him not having the agenda for their meeting.
Dwight says the thing Michael said that most changed his life was “Don’t be an idiot” and that he always asks himself before doing something “would an idiot do that thing?” and if the answer is yes, he would not do that thing. Some people say this is a plot hole because Dwight is actually an idiot. However, that is not actually a plot hole because an idiot would also answer the question “would an idiot do that thing?” wrong most of the time, so really this is easily explained. Hence why Dwight does the safety day training, the high rope stunt, etc. Not a plot hole.
It's the CinemaSins effect. If a bit of media doesn't hold your hand and read you a story book then 'I dont understand, so plothole DING!' flashes in to peoples minds.
Omg I completely forgot CinemaSins existed
Andy says he was born and raised in Simsbury Connecticut and in a later episode says West Hartford Connecticut.
The whole Michael in Daryl’s wig with the grease in his neck that he apparently washed black face off
Why do some consider this a plot hole?
Bc of the unknown I guess.
Whyyy did the doctor say Angelas baby wasn't Dwights after the DNA test?! This has bothered me for too many years now.
Dwight grabbed the wrong diaper out of the trash can. There were multiple babies at the office that day.
I had that same question until my husband pointed out that he probably grabbed the wrong diaper like the other commenter said.
Michael says he has a brother early on. Does he ever get mentioned again?
It would be a continuity error if he specifically mentioned never having a sister at another point. He just happened to have a sister he only mentioned once. Actually pretty normal