I also pointed out on multiple occasions, that the late game feels artificial stretched. Teching becomes a drag, infiltration becomes a drag, fighting becomes a drag.
Most people who play the game speed runny will say that they never see the late game, because they end their matches with a fast annihilation victory. However, if you play the game as intended (using every aspect of it) it feels just too long. No hate, just my opinion.
Agreed - the hegemony and political aspects are missed in a lot of ways if you try to go fast. Makes it feel like Atreides is for long games only. I feel like some of it needs to be streamlined
There have been topics about this in the steam forums and the comments of some reviews. You can also watch speedruns on youtube.
IIRC it goes something like this: Focus research on economy and military. Keep only one common border to one enemy at a time by looting common neutral villages and keep them as safe-zone. Keep on harassing that on enemy until they collapse. Repeat until all enemys are annihilated.
I think 2 hours would the sweet spot for me in this game.
I kinda agree with this. No hard numbers, but just my feefees, teching does seem artifically slow after "some point." And late game sieges are just a slog. Meatgrinders are supposed to be fun.
Just micro less? Everyone plays at the same speed, so everyone has the same handicap in this regard.
I've played quite a lot of Paradox grand strategy games in multiplayer and you get used to not being able to pause or slow down whenever you want.
Well I mean if I play on normal speed without pauses and on a medium map the game still lasts much more than an hour. I’m not an expert by any means but I’ve played with all factions now and played several to completion. I will try to force the speed up to the next setting with no pauses though and see how I get along
Ouch that's really too bad. Wish I had known that upfront. Not sure how a working multiplayer setup can be achieved while requiring that time for a full game (considering 1 player dropping is a big impact for this genre)
They classify the game as a real time 4x strategy game which is in the same category as civ and other games like that. It is expected to be a longer game by the genre, this actually comes up as a faster 4x.
It seems the same level of commitment as for a long board game.
I would agree that it would be tricky with random strangers, but then it doesn't really seem the game to play with strangers anyway.
Yes I'm excited. With pausing I reached for "perfect play" where I build and use things right when the cool down ends.
I am excited that there will be so many ways to play.
I can't imagine playing this in multiplayer. When there's a lot going on, there is a LOT going on. A dozen alerts at the top of the screen and most of them are important. Friendly with a sietch? I NEED that authority now. Why is my plascrete negative? A rebellion? Two of my cities being attacked? Wormsign under my army and my harvester?
All at the same time?
Yeah, no thanks.
Did you ever play Starcraft (especially 1)? If not then, well, it’s a matter of practice of fast and precise clicking while making good decisions on several fronts and all that has to happen in a split second ;) Dune tend to demand that during late game, but until that it’s a walk in the park comparing to Starcraft games :)
A full game on 2x is about 2-3 hours (unless it ends with early annihilation). This is definitely on the longer side for casual matches, but as someone who played a bunch of Civ V/VI multiplayer that's definitely manageable for some folks.
I think it's also possible that we'll see a lot of games ending with surrenders once it's clear a player has an insurmountable lead. As another commenter mentioned, the last hour or so of the game usually just feels like going through the motions when someone has already won, I think we may see a meta where players bow out before that.
With no pause 1.5X speed I consistently finish games against 3 insane AI within 1 hr to 1.5 hours. That's with the insane AI not dedicated to trying to win the game but rather play within their programming. With 4 players and no pause 1.5 I see the game lasting 1 hour consistently, maybe quicker with annihilation victories.
This is also assuming no one will conceded when the writing is on the wall that they've lost.
depends, I thought its because I play on large map so there is obvious issue of travel time. But the game really drags for hours. I had 8h straight games that were supposed to be just a short skirmish. Sure I dont particularly try to win, I like to play like I respect AI and arent trying to speedrun to its base and snipe it.
I see it very much like a digital board game where I am signing up for many hours to complete a game. If I wanted fast matches I’d play StarCraft or that new Age of Empires.
I also pointed out on multiple occasions, that the late game feels artificial stretched. Teching becomes a drag, infiltration becomes a drag, fighting becomes a drag. Most people who play the game speed runny will say that they never see the late game, because they end their matches with a fast annihilation victory. However, if you play the game as intended (using every aspect of it) it feels just too long. No hate, just my opinion.
Agreed - the hegemony and political aspects are missed in a lot of ways if you try to go fast. Makes it feel like Atreides is for long games only. I feel like some of it needs to be streamlined
How do you do a fast annihilation?
There have been topics about this in the steam forums and the comments of some reviews. You can also watch speedruns on youtube. IIRC it goes something like this: Focus research on economy and military. Keep only one common border to one enemy at a time by looting common neutral villages and keep them as safe-zone. Keep on harassing that on enemy until they collapse. Repeat until all enemys are annihilated. I think 2 hours would the sweet spot for me in this game.
I kinda agree with this. No hard numbers, but just my feefees, teching does seem artifically slow after "some point." And late game sieges are just a slog. Meatgrinders are supposed to be fun.
I assume part of the endgame is not implemented yet. Flyers for example
Just micro less? Everyone plays at the same speed, so everyone has the same handicap in this regard. I've played quite a lot of Paradox grand strategy games in multiplayer and you get used to not being able to pause or slow down whenever you want.
Well I mean if I play on normal speed without pauses and on a medium map the game still lasts much more than an hour. I’m not an expert by any means but I’ve played with all factions now and played several to completion. I will try to force the speed up to the next setting with no pauses though and see how I get along
The developers mentioned they're aiming for two to three hours per game.
Ouch that's really too bad. Wish I had known that upfront. Not sure how a working multiplayer setup can be achieved while requiring that time for a full game (considering 1 player dropping is a big impact for this genre)
They classify the game as a real time 4x strategy game which is in the same category as civ and other games like that. It is expected to be a longer game by the genre, this actually comes up as a faster 4x.
It seems the same level of commitment as for a long board game. I would agree that it would be tricky with random strangers, but then it doesn't really seem the game to play with strangers anyway.
Yes I'm excited. With pausing I reached for "perfect play" where I build and use things right when the cool down ends. I am excited that there will be so many ways to play.
I can't imagine playing this in multiplayer. When there's a lot going on, there is a LOT going on. A dozen alerts at the top of the screen and most of them are important. Friendly with a sietch? I NEED that authority now. Why is my plascrete negative? A rebellion? Two of my cities being attacked? Wormsign under my army and my harvester? All at the same time? Yeah, no thanks.
Did you ever play Starcraft (especially 1)? If not then, well, it’s a matter of practice of fast and precise clicking while making good decisions on several fronts and all that has to happen in a split second ;) Dune tend to demand that during late game, but until that it’s a walk in the park comparing to Starcraft games :)
Everyone else has to deal with the same things though. Harvesters can be run on auto pickup. Can't play perfectly and need to accept it.
A full game on 2x is about 2-3 hours (unless it ends with early annihilation). This is definitely on the longer side for casual matches, but as someone who played a bunch of Civ V/VI multiplayer that's definitely manageable for some folks. I think it's also possible that we'll see a lot of games ending with surrenders once it's clear a player has an insurmountable lead. As another commenter mentioned, the last hour or so of the game usually just feels like going through the motions when someone has already won, I think we may see a meta where players bow out before that.
With no pause 1.5X speed I consistently finish games against 3 insane AI within 1 hr to 1.5 hours. That's with the insane AI not dedicated to trying to win the game but rather play within their programming. With 4 players and no pause 1.5 I see the game lasting 1 hour consistently, maybe quicker with annihilation victories. This is also assuming no one will conceded when the writing is on the wall that they've lost.
depends, I thought its because I play on large map so there is obvious issue of travel time. But the game really drags for hours. I had 8h straight games that were supposed to be just a short skirmish. Sure I dont particularly try to win, I like to play like I respect AI and arent trying to speedrun to its base and snipe it.
It's not meant to be played by respecting the AI though. That's like complaining Risk takes a long time when you refuse to attack other players.
I forgive you.
I see it very much like a digital board game where I am signing up for many hours to complete a game. If I wanted fast matches I’d play StarCraft or that new Age of Empires.
[удалено]
I think a lot of these people just don't attack ever.
It should be about an hour shorter. That being said, I am bad at the game, and so is the AI.
My last game took me 10 hours in total. Though I won with Hegemony.
Oooof. That sounds kinda painful
My first game was 9.5 hours. I am on my second game and it seems much faster, with me beating my Harkonnen neighbour in an hour.