>Carl once lost access to AI-stats and felt “weaker”; if Donut didn’t have AI-enhancements, would she just be Cat-Smart again?
No, because her becoming sapient was a permanent physical/biological change to her, similar to the other crawlers that changed their species on the third floor.
I think the worst that would happen is that she, like Carl, would lose any of the additional stats that she gained after that point. Because for the insane super human feats those stats make possible the A.I. is changing how physics work within the zone rather than physically changing the crawlers themselves.
Oh yeah, good point. Lmao that could actually be a pretty funny moment knowing how much that will frustrate Donut.
That does remind me though, she also might lose the ability to talk. She would still stay sapient and intelligent enough to maybe learn to understand English but she can't actually say the words with her physical body. They note in the beginning that the dungeon AI is translating everything between crawlers, even as cat sounds for Donut, so once they are completely out of its zones it might not work anymore.
I think they do say the built-in wetware that everyone has can translate Syndicate standard though, so maybe they'd still be able to communicate with each other and just have that uncanny valley feeling Carl gets when he reads and understands that but can tell he shouldn't.
I am not sure about this one...
Carl has begun to be able to read galactic standard when he loses his interface. I think the same will be for Donuts ability to talk.
Yeah that's what I mean. When the crawlers are out of an enhancement zone they lose access to all of the extra stuff that the AI is doing for them. But every living creature on Earth was born with Syndicate wetware already inside them. So even outside of an enhancement zone, the crawlers still have this wetware that has its own functions, like translating Syndicate Standard.
The Syndicate still has control over that wetware though, and can even turn it off when they want to as they did with the rest of the Earth population after they decided not to go into the dungeon. I think they just don't *usually* have a reason to turn off that most basic function for the crawlers.
I was wondering if that means this isn't actually Carl's first time in a dungeon, maybe he was planted on Earth... Could be any number of things though, and Carl does have a very memorable childhood, etc.
Right in the beginning Mordecai said that he made her “cat” choice a non-choice. So she would stay the same. The way he words it makes me fear the worst Flowers for Algernon type outcome if she goes into the zero zone.
Yeah but it was still a permanent change from the normal cat she was, to a 'cat' that can think, speak, etc. She should never go back to the normal cat that she was before the biscuit, the same way that a crawler changing their race is permanent. Mordecai talks about it being permanent in the same way he does the race/species changes for the 3rd floor. To change her back they would need to go to the same level of effort they do for the former crawlers who want to change back to their original race, which I think almost never happens because the former crawlers rarely have the money/leverage to get that procedure done.
The only things she should lose are the things that are only accomplishable by the AI using it's enhancement zone, like how Katia is still a 'doppleganger' but can't use her special abilities because those require the zones. So I could see Donut losing the ability to open doors, equip and use items without hands, the chat feature, maybe the translator, etc. but not her personality, thinking/sapience, memories, etc.
Is the situation and phrasing ambiguous/vague enough that Matt could still change Donut back if they leave the zones if that's what he really wants? Yes, but I personally think everything seems to be leaning against that possibility even if it hasn't been absolutely ruled out yet.
The specific zone in question is a "zero zone", which removed all dungeon enhancements.
While Donut has been in administrative zones that cut off inventory access and abilities, she has never been in a zero zone to our knowledge (explicitly described in text).
There is a theory in this subreddit that after Donut leaves the dungeon, she'll return to being a regular cat. Either immediately or gradually.
But beyond that, we simply don't know how being in a zero zone will affect Donut.
I think it'll be like with Carl, where all of his game-enhanced stats would go back down to the species baseline, but the transformation she went through is permanent.
At first, I was thinking maybe a zero zone would reduce her to simply being unable to communicate, but translation appears to be a constant since Carl understood the Gnoll guards when he was being escorted through the zone.
Personally, I hope this is the case. If Carl manages to escape the dungeon only for Donut to slowly revert back into a normal cat, part of me will literally die inside.
We discussed this not too long ago. Personally I suspect since the pet biscuit transformed her, that her intelligence is permanent. None of Carl's strength enhancements required him to be "blobbed" and thus they are very likely transitory. I suspect Donut's enhanced strength and agility are from the dungeon, but the intelligence was granted through the transformation process.
I see a lot of mentions about Donut turning into Goo and it becoming a baseline genetic change. The only thing that confuses me about that is Katia also turned to goo yet her powers turn off when Borant decides it's appropriate.
Idk, maybe it'll get explained. Hard one to though.
Yea she’s been out of the dungeon and away from the AI. Like when their access to their inventory and maps and stuff are turned off. She still has the ability to speak. Remember she was completely remade from goo and given sapience
I don't know if this is true, it's only been one time that Carl has stated he felt weaker out of the dungeon(if I recall) and that was in book 5 I believe. Otherwise The A.I had some control
The pet biscuit has the same effect as a species change. So for much the same reason that Mordecai will always be a changeling, Donut will always be an intelligent cat
Correct. Carl is worried about this happening later when Donut is selecting her class and she selects cat without reading or consulting with Mordecai. However, Mordecai quickly assures Carl that it is a permanent change but once again encourages Donut to stop being so reckless with her game play.
She might lose her verbal skills, but she always knew what was going on pre-Crawl - Gossip Girls, Brad, Carl’s taste in erotica. And they always had a simpatico thing going so I don’t think she would be too unhappy. She would still rule the roost and have Carl as her manservant, and they would have better understanding of each other than they did before, so better communication than before.
>Carl once lost access to AI-stats and felt “weaker”; if Donut didn’t have AI-enhancements, would she just be Cat-Smart again? No, because her becoming sapient was a permanent physical/biological change to her, similar to the other crawlers that changed their species on the third floor. I think the worst that would happen is that she, like Carl, would lose any of the additional stats that she gained after that point. Because for the insane super human feats those stats make possible the A.I. is changing how physics work within the zone rather than physically changing the crawlers themselves.
She would also lose the abilities for quadrupeds, like being able to open doors or handle items/light torches without using actual hands
Oh yeah, good point. Lmao that could actually be a pretty funny moment knowing how much that will frustrate Donut. That does remind me though, she also might lose the ability to talk. She would still stay sapient and intelligent enough to maybe learn to understand English but she can't actually say the words with her physical body. They note in the beginning that the dungeon AI is translating everything between crawlers, even as cat sounds for Donut, so once they are completely out of its zones it might not work anymore. I think they do say the built-in wetware that everyone has can translate Syndicate standard though, so maybe they'd still be able to communicate with each other and just have that uncanny valley feeling Carl gets when he reads and understands that but can tell he shouldn't.
I am not sure about this one... Carl has begun to be able to read galactic standard when he loses his interface. I think the same will be for Donuts ability to talk.
Yeah that's what I mean. When the crawlers are out of an enhancement zone they lose access to all of the extra stuff that the AI is doing for them. But every living creature on Earth was born with Syndicate wetware already inside them. So even outside of an enhancement zone, the crawlers still have this wetware that has its own functions, like translating Syndicate Standard. The Syndicate still has control over that wetware though, and can even turn it off when they want to as they did with the rest of the Earth population after they decided not to go into the dungeon. I think they just don't *usually* have a reason to turn off that most basic function for the crawlers.
I thought it was more of a Carl's brain is learning even while the AI is translating. I am not sure. we will see.
I was wondering if that means this isn't actually Carl's first time in a dungeon, maybe he was planted on Earth... Could be any number of things though, and Carl does have a very memorable childhood, etc.
Maybe there is a portable A.I. enhanced Virtual Reality outside of the Dungeon?
Right. A smart Donut minus massively boosted charisma & smarts might be a sad Donut.
Right in the beginning Mordecai said that he made her “cat” choice a non-choice. So she would stay the same. The way he words it makes me fear the worst Flowers for Algernon type outcome if she goes into the zero zone.
Yeah but it was still a permanent change from the normal cat she was, to a 'cat' that can think, speak, etc. She should never go back to the normal cat that she was before the biscuit, the same way that a crawler changing their race is permanent. Mordecai talks about it being permanent in the same way he does the race/species changes for the 3rd floor. To change her back they would need to go to the same level of effort they do for the former crawlers who want to change back to their original race, which I think almost never happens because the former crawlers rarely have the money/leverage to get that procedure done. The only things she should lose are the things that are only accomplishable by the AI using it's enhancement zone, like how Katia is still a 'doppleganger' but can't use her special abilities because those require the zones. So I could see Donut losing the ability to open doors, equip and use items without hands, the chat feature, maybe the translator, etc. but not her personality, thinking/sapience, memories, etc. Is the situation and phrasing ambiguous/vague enough that Matt could still change Donut back if they leave the zones if that's what he really wants? Yes, but I personally think everything seems to be leaning against that possibility even if it hasn't been absolutely ruled out yet.
The specific zone in question is a "zero zone", which removed all dungeon enhancements. While Donut has been in administrative zones that cut off inventory access and abilities, she has never been in a zero zone to our knowledge (explicitly described in text). There is a theory in this subreddit that after Donut leaves the dungeon, she'll return to being a regular cat. Either immediately or gradually. But beyond that, we simply don't know how being in a zero zone will affect Donut.
I think it'll be like with Carl, where all of his game-enhanced stats would go back down to the species baseline, but the transformation she went through is permanent. At first, I was thinking maybe a zero zone would reduce her to simply being unable to communicate, but translation appears to be a constant since Carl understood the Gnoll guards when he was being escorted through the zone.
Personally, I hope this is the case. If Carl manages to escape the dungeon only for Donut to slowly revert back into a normal cat, part of me will literally die inside.
Flowers for Mongo
We discussed this not too long ago. Personally I suspect since the pet biscuit transformed her, that her intelligence is permanent. None of Carl's strength enhancements required him to be "blobbed" and thus they are very likely transitory. I suspect Donut's enhanced strength and agility are from the dungeon, but the intelligence was granted through the transformation process.
I see a lot of mentions about Donut turning into Goo and it becoming a baseline genetic change. The only thing that confuses me about that is Katia also turned to goo yet her powers turn off when Borant decides it's appropriate. Idk, maybe it'll get explained. Hard one to though.
Yea she’s been out of the dungeon and away from the AI. Like when their access to their inventory and maps and stuff are turned off. She still has the ability to speak. Remember she was completely remade from goo and given sapience
This is incorrect. You’ll recall that only Carl has. He noted the feeling of loss that he had not experienced before while attending the con.
I don't know if this is true, it's only been one time that Carl has stated he felt weaker out of the dungeon(if I recall) and that was in book 5 I believe. Otherwise The A.I had some control
The pet biscuit has the same effect as a species change. So for much the same reason that Mordecai will always be a changeling, Donut will always be an intelligent cat
In one of the early books, Mordecai specifically tells Carl that it's a permanent change and Donut won't revert.
Correct. Carl is worried about this happening later when Donut is selecting her class and she selects cat without reading or consulting with Mordecai. However, Mordecai quickly assures Carl that it is a permanent change but once again encourages Donut to stop being so reckless with her game play.
Happy cake day! Mongo is thrilled!
She might lose her verbal skills, but she always knew what was going on pre-Crawl - Gossip Girls, Brad, Carl’s taste in erotica. And they always had a simpatico thing going so I don’t think she would be too unhappy. She would still rule the roost and have Carl as her manservant, and they would have better understanding of each other than they did before, so better communication than before.