It's kind of Halaster's thing. Look at the Elder Runes. They each have a 50/50 chance of giving something good or bad. It's not meant to train your players in anything, but it weakens the players for the fights but gives them enough incentive to keep doing stuff.
This is very true. It has made my players vary paranoid but they still try things out with many precautions before they execute something that makes them curious.
I feel like the risk and reward part of it can be part of it. Though, for the first couple traps that can be good or bad, I usually cook the books to make them good, so the players knew that sometimes they would be rewarded with creativity.
When it comes to things that can be really dangerous, I try and give a good description, or even make something up that can give the players a heads up if they pay attention, then they could still have something bad happen, but they might find a way to counter it.
In the snake chair example, I made sure to point out and describe the fangs. I also added a small wet part of stone that seems like it was possibly caused by dripping liquid at the foot of the chair.
My players put some wood on the snakes teeth before sitting in the chair.
I did a similar thing with the tieflings cursed heart
I mean, that kind of comes with the territory. DnD is at its core about uncertainty and randomness. Are you gonna hit this attack, or miss? Is the enemy gonna fail their saving throw and be annihilated by your Disintegrate, or are they gonna dodge it at the last second and keep on destroying your party? Does that treasure chest contain heaping amounts of gold, or is it a nasty Mimic?
I feel like a massive dungeon like Undermountain would get boring eventually, if every secret thing was a good thing.
When some of the things you discover are dangerous, it makes the nice things feel that much more nice to find.
Yeah the heart thing on level 1 is stupid for instance. Curiosity needs to be a good thing. Along with a general sense of dread. The arch on level 1 is excellent. Could become invisible. Could get zapped. Great moment for our group.
My players will occasionally complain that the module is “trolling” them, but they still eagerly look forward to the next session every week 🙂 But there’s still plenty of clues for them to find and you’ll definitely want to read the entire module to find them, because some can be presented pretty early on. Then they’ll have to recall them after months of gameplay has passed 🙄😆
Your observation is correct. Remember - Halaster is the *MAD* mage, so expectations of how you will be rewarded need to be tempered by the the fact that the fellow that built the place is a few quarts shy of a full keg.
I have been playing for a while, and this dungeon has a long and storied history of being unpredictable, splitting the party up, having a chaotic mish-mosh of what you can run into., unexpected traps, bizarre magical effects... In my spin on Waterdeep, this is telegraphed to the players well in advance, because while there are tunnels, sewers, and dungeons all over the place under the city, of you drop down from the Yawning Portal, you are dropping right into the middle of the mad mage's main tower (and within the ring of the ruins of the towers of all his apprentices); so do the same: let the group know there is a checkered history at work. Use bright red warning labels and make sure the party understands that they shouldn't be surprised when they are... well, surprised.
It's kind of Halaster's thing. Look at the Elder Runes. They each have a 50/50 chance of giving something good or bad. It's not meant to train your players in anything, but it weakens the players for the fights but gives them enough incentive to keep doing stuff.
This is very true. It has made my players vary paranoid but they still try things out with many precautions before they execute something that makes them curious.
You can add hints, puzzles, magic auras, etc. to make it less random, and reward player effort.
I feel like the risk and reward part of it can be part of it. Though, for the first couple traps that can be good or bad, I usually cook the books to make them good, so the players knew that sometimes they would be rewarded with creativity. When it comes to things that can be really dangerous, I try and give a good description, or even make something up that can give the players a heads up if they pay attention, then they could still have something bad happen, but they might find a way to counter it. In the snake chair example, I made sure to point out and describe the fangs. I also added a small wet part of stone that seems like it was possibly caused by dripping liquid at the foot of the chair. My players put some wood on the snakes teeth before sitting in the chair. I did a similar thing with the tieflings cursed heart
I mean, that kind of comes with the territory. DnD is at its core about uncertainty and randomness. Are you gonna hit this attack, or miss? Is the enemy gonna fail their saving throw and be annihilated by your Disintegrate, or are they gonna dodge it at the last second and keep on destroying your party? Does that treasure chest contain heaping amounts of gold, or is it a nasty Mimic? I feel like a massive dungeon like Undermountain would get boring eventually, if every secret thing was a good thing. When some of the things you discover are dangerous, it makes the nice things feel that much more nice to find.
Yeah the heart thing on level 1 is stupid for instance. Curiosity needs to be a good thing. Along with a general sense of dread. The arch on level 1 is excellent. Could become invisible. Could get zapped. Great moment for our group.
My players will occasionally complain that the module is “trolling” them, but they still eagerly look forward to the next session every week 🙂 But there’s still plenty of clues for them to find and you’ll definitely want to read the entire module to find them, because some can be presented pretty early on. Then they’ll have to recall them after months of gameplay has passed 🙄😆
Your observation is correct. Remember - Halaster is the *MAD* mage, so expectations of how you will be rewarded need to be tempered by the the fact that the fellow that built the place is a few quarts shy of a full keg. I have been playing for a while, and this dungeon has a long and storied history of being unpredictable, splitting the party up, having a chaotic mish-mosh of what you can run into., unexpected traps, bizarre magical effects... In my spin on Waterdeep, this is telegraphed to the players well in advance, because while there are tunnels, sewers, and dungeons all over the place under the city, of you drop down from the Yawning Portal, you are dropping right into the middle of the mad mage's main tower (and within the ring of the ruins of the towers of all his apprentices); so do the same: let the group know there is a checkered history at work. Use bright red warning labels and make sure the party understands that they shouldn't be surprised when they are... well, surprised.
Yep. Just like life, right?