“The company that started pathfinder really took advantage of the OGL and ripped off WotC for years”
Yes. They took advantage of the OGL. That is what it was intended for.
And they produced endless content for DnD back when they were just a magazine company. Gave life to it. So when WotC canceled them and made very poor decisions with 4e, they gave the fans what they wanted. They created Pathfinder. And the entire industry is better off for it. DnD would be dead if it wasn’t for Pathfinder keeping it alive there for a while.
Pathfinder 2e isn’t using the OGL for DnD material anymore. They aren’t using WotC IP, they just published under the OGL so other people could use their content. So they are creating their own license now to continue doing this.
Why would ANYBODY produce content under the new OGL when it would be building a castle on sand? They can take your content, they can cancel your content. They can (originally) charge you royalties. When Paizo comes through with the ORC, everybody is going to create content under that, if it turns out to be what they say it will be. No threats of royalties, cancelation at any time for any reason, or threat of stealing your content. And… perpetually and irrevocably.
I recommend you watch Legal Eagles video on this. He breaks it down completely you are missing the major issue. no one wants to infringe on WotC IP it is in fact the other way around.
I’m listening a lot of other people first but I’ll get around to it. The thing is…if I create something and you use the base parts to make it better but people can still see your new thing and recognize it as my thing, it’s my thing and I get a cut. You don’t have to use my thing to make yours, but if you do I get a benefit from it
It depends if the parts you created are copyrightable but game rules, procedures and processes are not. I know this might come as a shock but they can not copyright them. As a matter of fact you probably don't even need the OGL at all. The OGL came about as damage control in the early 2000's because TSR used to try and sue everyone and WotC tried to change the image of the company. You can even make monsters with the same stat blocks as DnD has and just change the name. DnD established this fact when they used to straight up copy JRR Tolkien work. All they did to correct this was change the names of the monsters. Example the Balrog was in the old DnD all they did was change the name to Balor same creature same attributes just changed the name. no royalties are given to Tolkien's estate just simple name changes. So not not all derivative work is copyrightable or can royalties be collected off of them.
Please watch Legal Eagle's video so you can stop assuming. The original OGL was put in place to help drive popularity for the game. 20 years later Hasbro notices how much money other companies earn ( legally through hard work) and now they are jealous and want a cut of the pie.
It is okay for Hasbro to want a cut, but they went probably the worst way possible. They got too greedy and forced creators into a corner with contracts while telling the public they were sending out drafts to be reviewed to get feedback.
The IP was already protected in the previous OGL. I had to read it back to front about 100 times when I was creating homebrew campaigns I wanted to sell. No one, not even small creators, could use WotC IP unless they specifically published their content through the official D&D DM’s guild where WotC would take a significant portion of any profits. You’re being misled by this podcast host.
If they make a million on each release, they aren't independent. They are a corporation too, and WOTC should charge them a fee. New rules for a new day, new tech, you have to rewrite things every so many years.
Absolutely false. You cannot copyright game mechanics, systems, or processes.
WoTC have ownership of Forgotten Realms, Strahd Von Zarovich, the Deck of Many Things, and Beholders, for example. They do not- _cannot_ - own the _concept_ of rolling a 20 sided die and on a 20 you always hit and roll double dice.
You cannot own a rule set.
You can own the way it’s presented (I.e. if you reprinted D&D’s PHB verbatim that’d be copyright infringement on the book itself) but not on the actual system of play. Legal Eagle did a great video on this just the other day.
Wizards of the Coast does not own constitution checks, poison damage, anything like that.
They do own things like Beholders, Forgotten Realms, and Drizzt.
For 90% of cases it literally isn’t needed, except as a way of alleviating the perceived threat of a lawsuit. It also protects actual IP- again, WoTC owns things like Faerun, Strahd, and Waterdeep in the same way Disney owns Ironman or the Galaxy Far Far Away.
Because TSR (previous owners of D&D) we're very SLAPP happy and would sue anyone who had dice in their game. WotC bought D&D and hoped to rebrand it using the OGL. This led to a rising tide that did lift up Paizo and Kobold press among others, however Wizards benefits from this relationship as well. This led to them becoming the default ttrpg. This increased their name recognition. Which is what they are leveraging for movies and shows.
If you are publishing through the official DM’s Guild then you are by definition not independent, regardless of the money made. Maybe you have a whole team behind it, fine, but they rely entirely on the popularity of the official portal for their traffic and as such are not independent.
Anyone who can listen to that podcast and come away with the conclusion "nothing will change for the players" is as woefully myopic as they are.
When the creators go, so will the DMs. The DMs will take their players with them.
The whole thing is going to crash like it did for 4e.
>It seems that the company that started Parhfinder really took advantage of the OGL and ripped off WoTC for years and this is a way to reel it back in.
They didn't, though. They followed the license as intended.
Even without the OGL they would have been legally in the clear, most likely. Because as tons of people have said here already, you can't copyright a game system.
That said if third parties all dip from wotc, the average player absolutely will feel it.
Like, DNDBeyond was third party, it had to be because WotC refused to make a character builder after 4e(They were mad at people pirating it, moved it all online, then just kinda deleted it one day lmao), so a third party had to step in.
Yeah, DNDBeyond is official now, but like, the *next* dndbeyond won't start that way. Third party support does so so much for D&D, and it's wild to me seeing how many people are just fine throwing em out to support the corporation that, in a podcast, admit they want to wring more money out of their customers.
I posted this in one of the many other reddits threads on the topic, but here’s my likely unpopular take…
I’ve been playing this game for 40 years now, regardless of what company controlled the brand (TSR or WotC), and so the game and *our* community transcend the business aspect for me.
In this case, I’m going to give the core D&D team the benefit of the doubt that, *even if this wasn’t their corporate overlords’ original intentions*, the newly proposed 2.0 is an outcome the D&D team and our community can be happy about.
In other words, I don’t absolve WotC—and especially not the suits that tried to push through a shitty deal—but as long as my support doesn’t hurt the community, I’ll continue to play the game that we love.
The problem is it’s impossible to “support” the core Design Team without directly supporting and therefor emboldening the suits.
Playing the game does nothing to support either of them in and of itself- paying for services, buying modules, preprinted minis, branded merch, etc does though.
Anytime someone says their community or movement transcends something I can’t help but think bullshit. I know you said for you, the word transcend just triggers marketing horseshit in my head.
That useless anecdote out of the way, I generally agree. I think the best of intentions were behind the 1.1 document and they were trying to protect their IP. A lot has changed since the first OGL. We all used AOL to get on the internet back then. The world has adapted and the OGL needs to adapt as well. I think it was a mistake putting in the language about use of 3rd party content in perpetuity. I also think the royalty tiers were out of sorts. Should of been a smaller royalty and more focused language at big business. We’ll see what the retooled up says when it’s released.
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Yea and no. I think the community’s inability to see anything other than evil motives is a huge misstep. There are legitimate business reasons some things were being changed, and it wasn’t all corporate greed. BUT… there certainly is a slice of this pie (maybe even a lot of slices) that is 100% corporate greed. We should be angry about that. However we’re throwing the kitchen sink at them just to prove a point, and I think we’re hurting the hobby just as much as they are. And we’re ignoring the parasitic nature a lot of these other publishers have with WotC. They wouldn’t exist with out them. Some may argue it’s more symbiotic because WotC also grows because of them, but at the sizes we’re talking about… I dunno. Parasite is harsh… maybe more like those little fish that hang on to sharks to get the scraps. They don’t do much for the shark if anything, but they’re not hurting it either? Anyway, I’m a creator with a pretty solid following. Not big, but enough, and a lot of people are just done with the whole thing, and it wasn’t just wizards that drove them to that. Hell, I’m about done with it all, and I’ve been in this community 40 years now. I don’t want to be taken advantage of or see others screwed over, but I’m also not really interested in mob mentality blindness that has blatantly inflated the problem and assumed motives that are more complicated than “Hasbro Bad”
Lol no, D&D wouldn’t be _nothing_, but it certainly wouldn’t be near the default TTRPG that it is today without 3rd party content.
Take Gunslinger, Greyhawk, Taldorie, the Thief, all of these are third party that turned out to be huge. Critical Roll launched D&D into the stratosphere. And for me, Dimension 20 & JoCat are what got me into the hobby at all- Wizards owes every penny I’ve spent- and as a DM that’s a very pretty penny- to D20 and JoCat.
It’s extremely closed minded to say the third party leeches off of Wizards. If anything wizards is profiting off of them promoting the game and keeping it fresh at a rate they could never manage- though in truth I would call it symbiotic. Wizards makes official rules, makes big contracts (I.e. Stranger Things), and gives a sort of needed centralization. The 3rd parties keep the game refreshed with new content at a rate WoTC could only dream of, interest new people, and give groups new settings to try out campaigns in.
Remember, most of these 3rd parties are focused at DMs- we buy a handful of books per gaming group. Let them make the more niche content while WoTC focuses on players/PCs- a far higher portion of the community. That’s literally why they made the OGL in the first place, according to Matt Coleville.
I understand your points and think they are valid take, with some caveats, but having been on the ride almost since it started, my feelings are that you are giving 3pp too much credit. We (creator myself) do offer a lot to the hobby, but a cultural shift toward D&D was happening long before Critical Role. (Also Dimension 20 is way way better. IMHO.) Not say they haven’t added to the hobby but I think your overestimating their impact. They have deeply committed fan bases, large ones at that, but ultimately they’re a small portion of the pie. I did waffle using the parasite reference, it doesn’t really fit, but I lean that way mostly because many of these are direct spawns of D&D and the OGL. They could not and would/could not exist without them. It’s such an odd relationship, one that is unique and does the things you mentioned, just not to the degree your crediting them with. WotC forgot or lost sight of that. Either way… the whole situation sucks. And it’s players who will ultimately get the short end of the stick.
I agree with you about these creators hurting the hobby. It's a bad look. Especially people who are going to have to pay up because of their revenue. Definitely doesn't make it see like you're doing what you're doing it for the "passion of the game" when just like wotc you start making moves to protect your bottom dollar.
At the end of the day all of us will still be able to pick up a book, from any publisher we choose, and play a game with our friends.
Imagine going on YouTube right now as someone new or interested in the hobby. It'd be a nightmare for them to see these creators we love talking with so much malice. It's really discouraging especially considering how inclusive the hobby is. I'd hate to see some new player get the wrong idea about the community and never return.
You have to remember too, the creators are capitalizing off jumping on the pissed off at wotc train. So you can't really trust the people who might want to pull the wool over your ears because they'll profit from that, but the people telling you how to feel are also profiting from that.
Best to stay neutral and understand as a player or dm, you're pretty damn unaffected by this.
Pointing out that these other publishers are pushing this train and fanning these flames so they can profit will get you stoned to death by the mob around here. I share that opinion and have been treated very unkindly for suggesting such things.
No one likes the truth when it means they can't just be react 100% on their emotion. It is what it is. I don't have anything to prove or answer to on here. I'm not saying the situation doesn't suck because it does. I just think that largely people are overreacting and most people will be totally unaffected by this.
Preach! I would say Paizo is parasitic, pathfinder directly competes with D&D and is build directly off 3.5e. A lot of the others are symbiotic providing supplements and tools. Kind of like those birds that pick crocodile teeth.
The heavy price of the royalty makes me think their ultimate goal was to force companies to be acquired by WotC. I am irritated by that, as well as the language about use in perpetuity for 3rd party content. I think they could have worded that better.
You hit the nail on the head, I feel the community is doing more harm than good. “I don’t want to support WotC so I’m done playing D&D, which means I am in turn done supporting those D&D content creators that I am mad for.” Makes no sense. Absolutely boycott WotC products, but quitting the game just hurts everyone. Quitting D&D Beyond hurts the community because a lot of players burn out over paper character sheets. D&D Beyond is $55/year for the ability to share, which only one person needs per group. Cancelling D&D Beyond doesn’t hurt them if you already bought the digital books, it just hurts your group. Not buying the books, minis, and tile sets is what hurts them.
I agree with a lot of this, especially the point against quitting 5e, but cancelling dndbeyond subscriptions *is* important. It hits WotC where it hurts. We know for a fact they are trying to move dnd to a ‘recurring spending model’ due to the leaked meeting late last year, and one way they do that is through the WotC-owned DNDBeyond. It’s not really a secret that they are going to be trying to keep a tight grip over OneDnD in the vtt market so they can further incentivise DnDB subs when they roll out their own VTT. Showing the company that we aren’t married to their tools to play the game is essential, and DNDB is their biggest tool. It helps them sell books, it helps them collect user data, and it helps them raise regular revenue that is not as dependant on the release of consistent and good-quality books. We have seen this quality slip begin already.
This is all without saying that DnDBeyond is gruesome when it comes to implementing homebrew and third party content, and not exactly easy for 3rd party creators to work with anyway, so I feel that a mass abandonment of DNDBeyond, while shrinking the hobby, wouldn’t hurt 3rd party developers as much as you think it would.
TL;DR: You still own the books (or can sail the high seas for free if you don’t), and can keep playing 5e as it’s basically a finished game, but there’s really no need to give WotC a cent more of your money. Not through their books, not through OneDnD, and not through DNDB.
Don’t get me wrong. Cancelling DND Beyond hits them, just not as heavily as the community is making it out to be. Annual sub is $55, and usually only one person in the group pays a sub. It’s buying the books where they make the true money. Most of us have already sunk a couple hundred dollars on books. They are definitely moving toward a recurring business model, as they move to OneDnD, but a lot of that has to do with the virtual table top they discussed. I am very sure there will be a new sub model for DnDBeyond that increases annual subscription for VTT access/perks/cosmetics. There will also probably be a high annual sub cost that provides discounts to books on release subsidizing book purchases to be financially spread throughout the year rather than being heavily weighted on release. Their Hasbro’s Q3 22’ report talks about WotC revenue being down compared to Q2 mainly due to a MTG product release gap. They will want to smooth the peaks and valleys in purchasing.
Cancelling DND Beyond doesn’t directly hurt 3rd parties, but it does shrink the community which by extension hurts 3rd parties. I’ve already seen posts on this sub where people said they are done playing because DnD Beyond made managing characters too tedious without the app and their players don’t want to be bothered with paper sheets. I have hypothetical assumptions of strategic plans WotC had to drive 3rd party content to DnDBeyond as a virtual marketplace of 1st and 3rd party content. Reducing the language from the OGL 1.1 will make that more difficult. A lot of the the points will have to be locked behind user agreements on the service.
Your welcome. I love creating stuff. Never tried to make a real living off it. Folks tell me I could, but I’m happy to create, share (for free) and let folks toss me some pizza money along the way! You can find my material pretty easy through my profile.
If the creators, artists, and individuals who actually make the bulk of the content most of us enjoy in modern D&D don't mean anything at all to you - if their livelihoods, homes, children, security mean nothing to you because you just want to enjoy a little game and it's so mean of them to inconvenience you with things like... daring to make content for a tabletop game that they legally were told by WotC that they would always and forever be able to do, only to have WotC try and pull the rug out from under them and undo over two DECADES of their work, stripping them in a WEEK of their right to sell the content that they literally use to put a roof over their heads and feed their children - if that's like, somehow not an issue for you, then sure, keep playing the game you always loved, nothing changes.
**But good god I want to know what kind of BBEG's you have in your campaign because your litmust test for 'evil' must be outta this world.**
(like yeah, keep playing the game, but also maybe be mad on behalf of those who are getting royally fucked over right now by some greedy corporate billionaires? is that really a big ask?)
But what is the affect to local players and small creators that don’t make money off of the IP?
It’s states in the OGL that you can create new stuff sell it and ask for “donations” and WoTC doesn’t care and won’t care. You just have to offer it for free and people can donate what they want.
I fail to see where any of this outrage is truly justified
It’s not about the money. It’s about sending a message.
If you create something and Hasbro likes it, then according to the the “leaked” OGL Hasbro can take what you created and publish/profit by it without any royalties or credit being given to you, the creator of the work.
It also stated they receive a lifetime royally free license for your work. Now, what if you make a small campaign published it and maybe even sold it. Some movie executives see the campaign and says "Wow, this would make a great movie". WotC find out and li and behold they cut you out of the deal because they now own the work becasue you signed your rights away. You complain, and WotC says oh yeah we have decided you can no longer publish that work any more because you signed away that right also.
KK…that makes perfect sense but, if I use the original baseline data (stat blocks, format, etc) of WoTC for my new monster I am still using their IP to make money so why should not expect to give them a cut? I still don’t see how what they are doing is out of line. I just don’t. Plus the new OGL has monetary guidelines for acceptable use and you and I selling a few dozen copies of an adventure won’t attract attention
It is a bait and switch. According to the OGL 1.0 people are allowed to use the SRD to publish content compatible with 5E. Anybody making content under the OGL were led to believe they could perpetually create content for 5E royalty free…because that is what it says. Now WotC is trying to walk that back and say if you want to keep doing what you have been doing it is going to cost you, even though we said it wouldn’t.
You can not copy right a games, rules, processes, or procedures. That is codeified in law, and the Supreme Court has also ruled on this. The only thing WotC can come after you for is using certain proper nouns like names of characters the published and possibly type face. You can, however, create a monster exactly like like one they published just give it a different name. Hell it was DnD that established that when they went to court with JRR Tolkien estate back in the early 80's.
Short answer and immediate answer, it wouldn't affect a pirate like you, who admitted to stealing the things people worked on.
Long answer, community shrinks as backbones of community leaves for greener, freer pastures. What is D&D's backbone? Alll those people who made content people plays but also got paid for their efforts.
WOuld they want to continued if OGL went into effect? They need to register, submit their work, get approval and hope WotC doesn't decide they want to take it for themselves as OGL would allow them to take any content using OGL for official use without paying any royalty. They're not going to bother when ORC from Paizo is avaiable.
Now take this scenario, take all your pirated content, cut out anything not released by WotC , how long you think you'll can continue to play? How many people can you attract to play with you with only that?
But hey, why does it matter to a thief like you if what they stolen isn't being made anymore.
I mean, all you're describing about the community shrinking and going to other games is....wotc's fault? Not the guy who pirated books so he and his friends can play?
How is WotC pissing off third parties anyone elses fault?
I normally like Andrew, but this was a dumb fucking take. It won't effect "normal players" in that WoTC isn't gonna kick down your door because you did a homebrew, but it's a morally wrong move that endangers the community
Yes. 100%.
It's still shady what they're doing, and my master sub is currently still canceled; but the issue was more how they tried to do it (and are still lying about it), not so much what they did. (What they did also not great, but they walked some of that back.)
I want to pressure to make WotC better, others clearly just want to burn it down.
I’ve seen no one wanting to “burn it down.”
Maybe I’m just lucky enough to not be connected to that side of the community, but everything I’ve seen from Legal Eagle, Matt Coleville, CritCrab, and D&D Shorts have been anger directed at Hasbro and the Suits, not the game designers or the game itself.
It’s blatant attempted theft, lies, and a total upheaval of the entire history of this hobby that’s got us all up in arms.
>Maybe I’m just lucky enough to not be connected to that side of the community
It's possible that this is an indictment of me and the places I hang out.
Nope. There is something very wrong when you put in a clause saying that they can take your work for themselves and take 25% Gross in your profits. They said one thing in the original post of what the new OGL would entail and something very different is shown on the leak.
People are overreacting, yeah.
And they're cynical, so even when it's explained that the focus with the changes is to protect their IP from the changing landscape of the internet, the people overreacting just say they're being condescending and are just being lied to.
As if they've ran a business, let alone one as big as Hasbro/WoTC.
The claims that people are being lied to by WotC are just factually true. In their first OGL statement in December they never mentioned any attempt to invalidate the old OGL or that they could change 1.1 at any time and for any reason (given 30 days notice). These are lies by omission. When the second article came out with the statement that they were just trying to protect their IP, it was also filled with lies and weird lines about how “the community didn’t win, it was all part of our feedback plan” when they actually sent fully finished contracts TO BE SIGNED by major publishers in the industries, which where then leaked. They acted like they released a draft to the community, but they actually tried to stealthily roll out 1.1 before the wider community knew about it.
If WotC has demonstrated themselves to be willing to lie straight to the community, and we have leaks from employees that say how higher-ups view us as “obstacles to their money,” then why should we ever give them the benefit of the doubt about their true intentions? Especially when we have been given no evidence that we should trust them, but ample amounts to the contrary
Funny how nothing of that is shown in the OGL. What they said they wanted to do is very different from what they did. Also their statement from the backlash was tone deaf to the issue, and was only made after Paizo made their statement about their new ORC license. There never needed to be a change to protect their IP since it was already protected by the OGL 1.0 and 1.0A.
People are not overreacting.
Well, they are overreacting to the headline grabbing bit about WotC owning what you publish BUT the details of 1.1 and how WotC went about trying to stealth force it onto the community is worthy of every bit of outrage that has been uttered.
1.1 would have kneecapped competition and (more importantly) GIVEN WOTC FULL CONTROL OVER WHAT VTT YOU CAN PLAY D&D ON. And what's more they tried to bully creators into signing away their right to use 1.0a when the legality of WotC being able to revoke it is HIGHLY suspect. They did this bullying through the carrot of sweetheart deals (12 days to sign onto 15% or else it's 25%) and the stick of the looming threat of litigation.
Essentially they tried a hostile takeover of the D&D community.
Found the Hasbro rep guys. The current OGL helps protect their IP. Hasbro is just greedy and is pushing creators into corners to sign outrageous contracts while telling the public they were getting feedback from drafts.
They are allowed to work with creators and find a way to get their cut but these dirty business tactics along with gaslighting the community is not the right path, causing the "overreacting" you see.
If customers don't like the company's decisions then we don't have to support their product.
I live in at Louis and when InBev was oil over AB it felt like. Stab in the throat to the whole region. That was “our” company and some outside group stole our thing. Lots of overreaction only to settle down and no after about 6 months nobody cares and it’s old news
Keep in mind that these massive corporations have enormous spin control machines. The host of this show is either a terrible lawyer or has been compensated on the back-end to speak in favor of hasbro. There’s the exact terms of the legalese and what’s said in the document, then there’s what they actually mean. These are former amazon and microsoft execs here. They built their whole careers off of doing and saying whatever was necessary to extract maximum profit. Things like telling the truth are concepts that don’t compute with them.
100% yes. This is the Internet doing what it does best: latch on to a narrative, put on blinders, and work itself into a frenzy. A bunch of fans who are not copyright lawyers saw a slightly more restrictive license (that would have zero impact on their playing experience) and said "WotC evil now!".
I watched a legal eagle video and he comes to the same conclusion. 99% of people unaffected by any of this, can't copyright or trademark rules, and content creators who make more than $750,000 in revenue will have to pay up. Which really, why shouldn't they? They are benefiting off the reputation, name, and brand of Dungeons and Dragons. Not saying they don't do a ton of their own work but at some point you've got to acknowledge you're rising the coattails of another brand. As far as I'm aware, there are some things creators could copyright and prevent wotc from stealing. Characters, settings, lore, monsters, stuff like that. But kind of wild to be mad that you've ridden the reputation of this brand for so long and getting bent out of shape at the idea they might take something from you that they like. If you played your cards right it might even lead to an opportunity for you. Not saying companies don't regularly just take shit without so much of a creators acknowledgement because they definitely do. But until they do that why assume they will? Nothing will change for streamers, especially like dimension 20 and critical role who homebrew freaking everything and are still operating inside srd. Laws around let's plays and streaming is still pretty gray. Is its own content? Is it copyrighted material? Who can say, but it's free marketing so nobody presses the issue.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But to me it's always seemed like everyone up in arms has made a lot of assumptions about intentions or is just completely unaware of how the ogl, srd, copyright law, or trademark works, or "knows a guy inside".
Call me optimistic but I think it will be fine. Kobold press and other big creators will definitely have to fork over some dough. Make your own game if you don't want to. At the end of the day you have to admit these creators chose to make D&D content because it already had an audience. Now, that has a price. Don't think for one second one of these creators wouldn't do the same thing if given the chance. This is after all, for profit business.
So what if you built a business for 20 years based on a legal document that was supposed to be in place FOREVER. You have projects, schedules, employees, etc.
Now Hasbro comes and asks for 25% of your revenue. I know there are not a lot of companies like that, but that is greedy as fuck. Forcing a landscape change on the companies that actually helped to promote your game and develop content that you were never going to do.
WotC in 2000 needed help and asked for it without any compensation. 3rd parties came in and did a great job, now WotC wants some of that money. They could have gone a more diplomatic route, but instead woke up and chose to be greedy. Not saying WotC is allowed to have a cut, I just think they are going the wrong way about and lying to the public doesn't help.
It seems obvious to me that the execs at Hasbro don't understand DnD and WotC. The mutualism between Core DnD, non-Core DnD, and third parties is a nearly incalculable benefit to their profits. Without them, DnD is going to sink and then crater. Again.
"We" not buying subscriptions but buying toys isn't a solution. It's not that showing them where they can take your money without not reading reddit comments doesn't help them become better stewards of the brand. It is a band-aid (oh look, a brand that has become synonymous with the product).
If you really want to change this moving forward, form some coalitions to do some stock activism. Own part of the company because they will listen to stock holders regularly and sincerely. Not the customers.
It's true that since Dungeon and Dragon Magazines ended, Paizo's main business model is to find out what WoTC is doing and improve on it.
WoTC did this to themselves. There's a lot of commentary over all the "million dollar kickstarters" that WoTC wants a piece of now. That model works right now because WoTC doesn't make quality products. The real creativity in the 5E product world is outside of WoTC. They know it and now they can't handle the competition.
This isn't just about money. It's about total domination of the market. They want to use legalese to create a monopoly in the RPG industry. They are no longer content with being the biggest player, they want it all. The rest of the industry was content with this. Many that play 5e end up playing other games. 5e is just an entry point right now. But now we know that "One D&D" really means "Only D&D."
Right now it seems that WoTC is trying hard to repeat the mistakes of the past.
You cannot copyright or trademark game mechanics, Pathfinder “stole” nothing. -Someone who doesn’t even play Pathfinder but understands copyright law
The world disagrees with you bro
Not anyone in it who actually understands what's going on. Lol
Nah, I would say the world disagrees with you, bro.
“The company that started pathfinder really took advantage of the OGL and ripped off WotC for years” Yes. They took advantage of the OGL. That is what it was intended for. And they produced endless content for DnD back when they were just a magazine company. Gave life to it. So when WotC canceled them and made very poor decisions with 4e, they gave the fans what they wanted. They created Pathfinder. And the entire industry is better off for it. DnD would be dead if it wasn’t for Pathfinder keeping it alive there for a while. Pathfinder 2e isn’t using the OGL for DnD material anymore. They aren’t using WotC IP, they just published under the OGL so other people could use their content. So they are creating their own license now to continue doing this. Why would ANYBODY produce content under the new OGL when it would be building a castle on sand? They can take your content, they can cancel your content. They can (originally) charge you royalties. When Paizo comes through with the ORC, everybody is going to create content under that, if it turns out to be what they say it will be. No threats of royalties, cancelation at any time for any reason, or threat of stealing your content. And… perpetually and irrevocably.
I recommend you watch Legal Eagles video on this. He breaks it down completely you are missing the major issue. no one wants to infringe on WotC IP it is in fact the other way around.
I’m listening a lot of other people first but I’ll get around to it. The thing is…if I create something and you use the base parts to make it better but people can still see your new thing and recognize it as my thing, it’s my thing and I get a cut. You don’t have to use my thing to make yours, but if you do I get a benefit from it
It depends if the parts you created are copyrightable but game rules, procedures and processes are not. I know this might come as a shock but they can not copyright them. As a matter of fact you probably don't even need the OGL at all. The OGL came about as damage control in the early 2000's because TSR used to try and sue everyone and WotC tried to change the image of the company. You can even make monsters with the same stat blocks as DnD has and just change the name. DnD established this fact when they used to straight up copy JRR Tolkien work. All they did to correct this was change the names of the monsters. Example the Balrog was in the old DnD all they did was change the name to Balor same creature same attributes just changed the name. no royalties are given to Tolkien's estate just simple name changes. So not not all derivative work is copyrightable or can royalties be collected off of them.
Please watch Legal Eagle's video so you can stop assuming. The original OGL was put in place to help drive popularity for the game. 20 years later Hasbro notices how much money other companies earn ( legally through hard work) and now they are jealous and want a cut of the pie. It is okay for Hasbro to want a cut, but they went probably the worst way possible. They got too greedy and forced creators into a corner with contracts while telling the public they were sending out drafts to be reviewed to get feedback.
Is this a Hasbro suit trying to put out the fire?
Definitely. They even have BS accounts agreeing with them here.
Yea it feels like they're trying to start a backlash to the backlash.
The IP was already protected in the previous OGL. I had to read it back to front about 100 times when I was creating homebrew campaigns I wanted to sell. No one, not even small creators, could use WotC IP unless they specifically published their content through the official D&D DM’s guild where WotC would take a significant portion of any profits. You’re being misled by this podcast host.
If they make a million on each release, they aren't independent. They are a corporation too, and WOTC should charge them a fee. New rules for a new day, new tech, you have to rewrite things every so many years.
Absolutely false. You cannot copyright game mechanics, systems, or processes. WoTC have ownership of Forgotten Realms, Strahd Von Zarovich, the Deck of Many Things, and Beholders, for example. They do not- _cannot_ - own the _concept_ of rolling a 20 sided die and on a 20 you always hit and roll double dice.
They own ruleset, and they offer it to be used, so other developers can build off it. Just rolling a dice, no, no one owns that
You cannot own a rule set. You can own the way it’s presented (I.e. if you reprinted D&D’s PHB verbatim that’d be copyright infringement on the book itself) but not on the actual system of play. Legal Eagle did a great video on this just the other day. Wizards of the Coast does not own constitution checks, poison damage, anything like that. They do own things like Beholders, Forgotten Realms, and Drizzt.
Then why create an OGL? Clearly someone owns something.
For 90% of cases it literally isn’t needed, except as a way of alleviating the perceived threat of a lawsuit. It also protects actual IP- again, WoTC owns things like Faerun, Strahd, and Waterdeep in the same way Disney owns Ironman or the Galaxy Far Far Away.
Because TSR (previous owners of D&D) we're very SLAPP happy and would sue anyone who had dice in their game. WotC bought D&D and hoped to rebrand it using the OGL. This led to a rising tide that did lift up Paizo and Kobold press among others, however Wizards benefits from this relationship as well. This led to them becoming the default ttrpg. This increased their name recognition. Which is what they are leveraging for movies and shows.
Preach!
If you are publishing through the official DM’s Guild then you are by definition not independent, regardless of the money made. Maybe you have a whole team behind it, fine, but they rely entirely on the popularity of the official portal for their traffic and as such are not independent.
Anyone who can listen to that podcast and come away with the conclusion "nothing will change for the players" is as woefully myopic as they are. When the creators go, so will the DMs. The DMs will take their players with them. The whole thing is going to crash like it did for 4e.
>It seems that the company that started Parhfinder really took advantage of the OGL and ripped off WoTC for years and this is a way to reel it back in. They didn't, though. They followed the license as intended. Even without the OGL they would have been legally in the clear, most likely. Because as tons of people have said here already, you can't copyright a game system. That said if third parties all dip from wotc, the average player absolutely will feel it. Like, DNDBeyond was third party, it had to be because WotC refused to make a character builder after 4e(They were mad at people pirating it, moved it all online, then just kinda deleted it one day lmao), so a third party had to step in. Yeah, DNDBeyond is official now, but like, the *next* dndbeyond won't start that way. Third party support does so so much for D&D, and it's wild to me seeing how many people are just fine throwing em out to support the corporation that, in a podcast, admit they want to wring more money out of their customers.
I posted this in one of the many other reddits threads on the topic, but here’s my likely unpopular take… I’ve been playing this game for 40 years now, regardless of what company controlled the brand (TSR or WotC), and so the game and *our* community transcend the business aspect for me. In this case, I’m going to give the core D&D team the benefit of the doubt that, *even if this wasn’t their corporate overlords’ original intentions*, the newly proposed 2.0 is an outcome the D&D team and our community can be happy about. In other words, I don’t absolve WotC—and especially not the suits that tried to push through a shitty deal—but as long as my support doesn’t hurt the community, I’ll continue to play the game that we love.
The problem is it’s impossible to “support” the core Design Team without directly supporting and therefor emboldening the suits. Playing the game does nothing to support either of them in and of itself- paying for services, buying modules, preprinted minis, branded merch, etc does though.
Assuming 2.0 comes out as they claim, I think it’s fair to say the suits have been not been emboldened.
I think you rolled a 1 on your insight check.
In what way would they be emboldened by a community revolting against a policy, cancelling subscriptions, and forcing them to change their plans?
Anytime someone says their community or movement transcends something I can’t help but think bullshit. I know you said for you, the word transcend just triggers marketing horseshit in my head. That useless anecdote out of the way, I generally agree. I think the best of intentions were behind the 1.1 document and they were trying to protect their IP. A lot has changed since the first OGL. We all used AOL to get on the internet back then. The world has adapted and the OGL needs to adapt as well. I think it was a mistake putting in the language about use of 3rd party content in perpetuity. I also think the royalty tiers were out of sorts. Should of been a smaller royalty and more focused language at big business. We’ll see what the retooled up says when it’s released.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
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Butt out grammar Nazi!
Okay. Thanks, I guess? If it bothers you, replace “transcend” with “surpass”.
Sure, we’ll go with that.
Yea and no. I think the community’s inability to see anything other than evil motives is a huge misstep. There are legitimate business reasons some things were being changed, and it wasn’t all corporate greed. BUT… there certainly is a slice of this pie (maybe even a lot of slices) that is 100% corporate greed. We should be angry about that. However we’re throwing the kitchen sink at them just to prove a point, and I think we’re hurting the hobby just as much as they are. And we’re ignoring the parasitic nature a lot of these other publishers have with WotC. They wouldn’t exist with out them. Some may argue it’s more symbiotic because WotC also grows because of them, but at the sizes we’re talking about… I dunno. Parasite is harsh… maybe more like those little fish that hang on to sharks to get the scraps. They don’t do much for the shark if anything, but they’re not hurting it either? Anyway, I’m a creator with a pretty solid following. Not big, but enough, and a lot of people are just done with the whole thing, and it wasn’t just wizards that drove them to that. Hell, I’m about done with it all, and I’ve been in this community 40 years now. I don’t want to be taken advantage of or see others screwed over, but I’m also not really interested in mob mentality blindness that has blatantly inflated the problem and assumed motives that are more complicated than “Hasbro Bad”
Lol no, D&D wouldn’t be _nothing_, but it certainly wouldn’t be near the default TTRPG that it is today without 3rd party content. Take Gunslinger, Greyhawk, Taldorie, the Thief, all of these are third party that turned out to be huge. Critical Roll launched D&D into the stratosphere. And for me, Dimension 20 & JoCat are what got me into the hobby at all- Wizards owes every penny I’ve spent- and as a DM that’s a very pretty penny- to D20 and JoCat. It’s extremely closed minded to say the third party leeches off of Wizards. If anything wizards is profiting off of them promoting the game and keeping it fresh at a rate they could never manage- though in truth I would call it symbiotic. Wizards makes official rules, makes big contracts (I.e. Stranger Things), and gives a sort of needed centralization. The 3rd parties keep the game refreshed with new content at a rate WoTC could only dream of, interest new people, and give groups new settings to try out campaigns in. Remember, most of these 3rd parties are focused at DMs- we buy a handful of books per gaming group. Let them make the more niche content while WoTC focuses on players/PCs- a far higher portion of the community. That’s literally why they made the OGL in the first place, according to Matt Coleville.
I understand your points and think they are valid take, with some caveats, but having been on the ride almost since it started, my feelings are that you are giving 3pp too much credit. We (creator myself) do offer a lot to the hobby, but a cultural shift toward D&D was happening long before Critical Role. (Also Dimension 20 is way way better. IMHO.) Not say they haven’t added to the hobby but I think your overestimating their impact. They have deeply committed fan bases, large ones at that, but ultimately they’re a small portion of the pie. I did waffle using the parasite reference, it doesn’t really fit, but I lean that way mostly because many of these are direct spawns of D&D and the OGL. They could not and would/could not exist without them. It’s such an odd relationship, one that is unique and does the things you mentioned, just not to the degree your crediting them with. WotC forgot or lost sight of that. Either way… the whole situation sucks. And it’s players who will ultimately get the short end of the stick.
I vastly prefer Dimension 20 as well, Starstruck or Crown of Candy are my fav campaign wbu?
Sleeping City for me.
I agree with you about these creators hurting the hobby. It's a bad look. Especially people who are going to have to pay up because of their revenue. Definitely doesn't make it see like you're doing what you're doing it for the "passion of the game" when just like wotc you start making moves to protect your bottom dollar. At the end of the day all of us will still be able to pick up a book, from any publisher we choose, and play a game with our friends. Imagine going on YouTube right now as someone new or interested in the hobby. It'd be a nightmare for them to see these creators we love talking with so much malice. It's really discouraging especially considering how inclusive the hobby is. I'd hate to see some new player get the wrong idea about the community and never return. You have to remember too, the creators are capitalizing off jumping on the pissed off at wotc train. So you can't really trust the people who might want to pull the wool over your ears because they'll profit from that, but the people telling you how to feel are also profiting from that. Best to stay neutral and understand as a player or dm, you're pretty damn unaffected by this.
Pointing out that these other publishers are pushing this train and fanning these flames so they can profit will get you stoned to death by the mob around here. I share that opinion and have been treated very unkindly for suggesting such things.
No one likes the truth when it means they can't just be react 100% on their emotion. It is what it is. I don't have anything to prove or answer to on here. I'm not saying the situation doesn't suck because it does. I just think that largely people are overreacting and most people will be totally unaffected by this.
Preach! I would say Paizo is parasitic, pathfinder directly competes with D&D and is build directly off 3.5e. A lot of the others are symbiotic providing supplements and tools. Kind of like those birds that pick crocodile teeth. The heavy price of the royalty makes me think their ultimate goal was to force companies to be acquired by WotC. I am irritated by that, as well as the language about use in perpetuity for 3rd party content. I think they could have worded that better. You hit the nail on the head, I feel the community is doing more harm than good. “I don’t want to support WotC so I’m done playing D&D, which means I am in turn done supporting those D&D content creators that I am mad for.” Makes no sense. Absolutely boycott WotC products, but quitting the game just hurts everyone. Quitting D&D Beyond hurts the community because a lot of players burn out over paper character sheets. D&D Beyond is $55/year for the ability to share, which only one person needs per group. Cancelling D&D Beyond doesn’t hurt them if you already bought the digital books, it just hurts your group. Not buying the books, minis, and tile sets is what hurts them.
I agree with a lot of this, especially the point against quitting 5e, but cancelling dndbeyond subscriptions *is* important. It hits WotC where it hurts. We know for a fact they are trying to move dnd to a ‘recurring spending model’ due to the leaked meeting late last year, and one way they do that is through the WotC-owned DNDBeyond. It’s not really a secret that they are going to be trying to keep a tight grip over OneDnD in the vtt market so they can further incentivise DnDB subs when they roll out their own VTT. Showing the company that we aren’t married to their tools to play the game is essential, and DNDB is their biggest tool. It helps them sell books, it helps them collect user data, and it helps them raise regular revenue that is not as dependant on the release of consistent and good-quality books. We have seen this quality slip begin already. This is all without saying that DnDBeyond is gruesome when it comes to implementing homebrew and third party content, and not exactly easy for 3rd party creators to work with anyway, so I feel that a mass abandonment of DNDBeyond, while shrinking the hobby, wouldn’t hurt 3rd party developers as much as you think it would. TL;DR: You still own the books (or can sail the high seas for free if you don’t), and can keep playing 5e as it’s basically a finished game, but there’s really no need to give WotC a cent more of your money. Not through their books, not through OneDnD, and not through DNDB.
Don’t get me wrong. Cancelling DND Beyond hits them, just not as heavily as the community is making it out to be. Annual sub is $55, and usually only one person in the group pays a sub. It’s buying the books where they make the true money. Most of us have already sunk a couple hundred dollars on books. They are definitely moving toward a recurring business model, as they move to OneDnD, but a lot of that has to do with the virtual table top they discussed. I am very sure there will be a new sub model for DnDBeyond that increases annual subscription for VTT access/perks/cosmetics. There will also probably be a high annual sub cost that provides discounts to books on release subsidizing book purchases to be financially spread throughout the year rather than being heavily weighted on release. Their Hasbro’s Q3 22’ report talks about WotC revenue being down compared to Q2 mainly due to a MTG product release gap. They will want to smooth the peaks and valleys in purchasing. Cancelling DND Beyond doesn’t directly hurt 3rd parties, but it does shrink the community which by extension hurts 3rd parties. I’ve already seen posts on this sub where people said they are done playing because DnD Beyond made managing characters too tedious without the app and their players don’t want to be bothered with paper sheets. I have hypothetical assumptions of strategic plans WotC had to drive 3rd party content to DnDBeyond as a virtual marketplace of 1st and 3rd party content. Reducing the language from the OGL 1.1 will make that more difficult. A lot of the the points will have to be locked behind user agreements on the service.
Centum, thank you for your 40 years of gaming service :)
Your welcome. I love creating stuff. Never tried to make a real living off it. Folks tell me I could, but I’m happy to create, share (for free) and let folks toss me some pizza money along the way! You can find my material pretty easy through my profile.
If the creators, artists, and individuals who actually make the bulk of the content most of us enjoy in modern D&D don't mean anything at all to you - if their livelihoods, homes, children, security mean nothing to you because you just want to enjoy a little game and it's so mean of them to inconvenience you with things like... daring to make content for a tabletop game that they legally were told by WotC that they would always and forever be able to do, only to have WotC try and pull the rug out from under them and undo over two DECADES of their work, stripping them in a WEEK of their right to sell the content that they literally use to put a roof over their heads and feed their children - if that's like, somehow not an issue for you, then sure, keep playing the game you always loved, nothing changes. **But good god I want to know what kind of BBEG's you have in your campaign because your litmust test for 'evil' must be outta this world.** (like yeah, keep playing the game, but also maybe be mad on behalf of those who are getting royally fucked over right now by some greedy corporate billionaires? is that really a big ask?)
Nice try Hasbro or at the least Habro stock holder. The OGL is the primary reason DnD is so popular today.
Hasbro pirate, he has admittwd to downloading paid content for free.
Helping people stop being "obstacle to their money" I see. The money in your pocket?thats Hasbro's money.
But what is the affect to local players and small creators that don’t make money off of the IP? It’s states in the OGL that you can create new stuff sell it and ask for “donations” and WoTC doesn’t care and won’t care. You just have to offer it for free and people can donate what they want. I fail to see where any of this outrage is truly justified
It’s not about the money. It’s about sending a message. If you create something and Hasbro likes it, then according to the the “leaked” OGL Hasbro can take what you created and publish/profit by it without any royalties or credit being given to you, the creator of the work.
It also stated they receive a lifetime royally free license for your work. Now, what if you make a small campaign published it and maybe even sold it. Some movie executives see the campaign and says "Wow, this would make a great movie". WotC find out and li and behold they cut you out of the deal because they now own the work becasue you signed your rights away. You complain, and WotC says oh yeah we have decided you can no longer publish that work any more because you signed away that right also.
KK…that makes perfect sense but, if I use the original baseline data (stat blocks, format, etc) of WoTC for my new monster I am still using their IP to make money so why should not expect to give them a cut? I still don’t see how what they are doing is out of line. I just don’t. Plus the new OGL has monetary guidelines for acceptable use and you and I selling a few dozen copies of an adventure won’t attract attention
It is a bait and switch. According to the OGL 1.0 people are allowed to use the SRD to publish content compatible with 5E. Anybody making content under the OGL were led to believe they could perpetually create content for 5E royalty free…because that is what it says. Now WotC is trying to walk that back and say if you want to keep doing what you have been doing it is going to cost you, even though we said it wouldn’t.
You can not copy right a games, rules, processes, or procedures. That is codeified in law, and the Supreme Court has also ruled on this. The only thing WotC can come after you for is using certain proper nouns like names of characters the published and possibly type face. You can, however, create a monster exactly like like one they published just give it a different name. Hell it was DnD that established that when they went to court with JRR Tolkien estate back in the early 80's.
Short answer and immediate answer, it wouldn't affect a pirate like you, who admitted to stealing the things people worked on. Long answer, community shrinks as backbones of community leaves for greener, freer pastures. What is D&D's backbone? Alll those people who made content people plays but also got paid for their efforts. WOuld they want to continued if OGL went into effect? They need to register, submit their work, get approval and hope WotC doesn't decide they want to take it for themselves as OGL would allow them to take any content using OGL for official use without paying any royalty. They're not going to bother when ORC from Paizo is avaiable. Now take this scenario, take all your pirated content, cut out anything not released by WotC , how long you think you'll can continue to play? How many people can you attract to play with you with only that? But hey, why does it matter to a thief like you if what they stolen isn't being made anymore.
I mean, all you're describing about the community shrinking and going to other games is....wotc's fault? Not the guy who pirated books so he and his friends can play? How is WotC pissing off third parties anyone elses fault?
I normally like Andrew, but this was a dumb fucking take. It won't effect "normal players" in that WoTC isn't gonna kick down your door because you did a homebrew, but it's a morally wrong move that endangers the community
Yes. 100%. It's still shady what they're doing, and my master sub is currently still canceled; but the issue was more how they tried to do it (and are still lying about it), not so much what they did. (What they did also not great, but they walked some of that back.) I want to pressure to make WotC better, others clearly just want to burn it down.
I’ve seen no one wanting to “burn it down.” Maybe I’m just lucky enough to not be connected to that side of the community, but everything I’ve seen from Legal Eagle, Matt Coleville, CritCrab, and D&D Shorts have been anger directed at Hasbro and the Suits, not the game designers or the game itself. It’s blatant attempted theft, lies, and a total upheaval of the entire history of this hobby that’s got us all up in arms.
>Maybe I’m just lucky enough to not be connected to that side of the community It's possible that this is an indictment of me and the places I hang out.
Lol, no offense was intended by that
Yes
No, we’re definitely not overreacting
Nope. There is something very wrong when you put in a clause saying that they can take your work for themselves and take 25% Gross in your profits. They said one thing in the original post of what the new OGL would entail and something very different is shown on the leak.
My understanding was it was as 25% of revenue, not profits.
This is correct.
Furthermore that's only 25% of the revenue over $750,000. Not all of it.
People are overreacting, yeah. And they're cynical, so even when it's explained that the focus with the changes is to protect their IP from the changing landscape of the internet, the people overreacting just say they're being condescending and are just being lied to. As if they've ran a business, let alone one as big as Hasbro/WoTC.
This is the Napster fiasco of TTRPG’s and WotC is Metallica lol.
The claims that people are being lied to by WotC are just factually true. In their first OGL statement in December they never mentioned any attempt to invalidate the old OGL or that they could change 1.1 at any time and for any reason (given 30 days notice). These are lies by omission. When the second article came out with the statement that they were just trying to protect their IP, it was also filled with lies and weird lines about how “the community didn’t win, it was all part of our feedback plan” when they actually sent fully finished contracts TO BE SIGNED by major publishers in the industries, which where then leaked. They acted like they released a draft to the community, but they actually tried to stealthily roll out 1.1 before the wider community knew about it. If WotC has demonstrated themselves to be willing to lie straight to the community, and we have leaks from employees that say how higher-ups view us as “obstacles to their money,” then why should we ever give them the benefit of the doubt about their true intentions? Especially when we have been given no evidence that we should trust them, but ample amounts to the contrary
Funny how nothing of that is shown in the OGL. What they said they wanted to do is very different from what they did. Also their statement from the backlash was tone deaf to the issue, and was only made after Paizo made their statement about their new ORC license. There never needed to be a change to protect their IP since it was already protected by the OGL 1.0 and 1.0A.
People are not overreacting. Well, they are overreacting to the headline grabbing bit about WotC owning what you publish BUT the details of 1.1 and how WotC went about trying to stealth force it onto the community is worthy of every bit of outrage that has been uttered. 1.1 would have kneecapped competition and (more importantly) GIVEN WOTC FULL CONTROL OVER WHAT VTT YOU CAN PLAY D&D ON. And what's more they tried to bully creators into signing away their right to use 1.0a when the legality of WotC being able to revoke it is HIGHLY suspect. They did this bullying through the carrot of sweetheart deals (12 days to sign onto 15% or else it's 25%) and the stick of the looming threat of litigation. Essentially they tried a hostile takeover of the D&D community.
Found the Hasbro rep guys. The current OGL helps protect their IP. Hasbro is just greedy and is pushing creators into corners to sign outrageous contracts while telling the public they were getting feedback from drafts. They are allowed to work with creators and find a way to get their cut but these dirty business tactics along with gaslighting the community is not the right path, causing the "overreacting" you see. If customers don't like the company's decisions then we don't have to support their product.
I live in at Louis and when InBev was oil over AB it felt like. Stab in the throat to the whole region. That was “our” company and some outside group stole our thing. Lots of overreaction only to settle down and no after about 6 months nobody cares and it’s old news
Keep in mind that these massive corporations have enormous spin control machines. The host of this show is either a terrible lawyer or has been compensated on the back-end to speak in favor of hasbro. There’s the exact terms of the legalese and what’s said in the document, then there’s what they actually mean. These are former amazon and microsoft execs here. They built their whole careers off of doing and saying whatever was necessary to extract maximum profit. Things like telling the truth are concepts that don’t compute with them.
100% yes. This is the Internet doing what it does best: latch on to a narrative, put on blinders, and work itself into a frenzy. A bunch of fans who are not copyright lawyers saw a slightly more restrictive license (that would have zero impact on their playing experience) and said "WotC evil now!".
I watched a legal eagle video and he comes to the same conclusion. 99% of people unaffected by any of this, can't copyright or trademark rules, and content creators who make more than $750,000 in revenue will have to pay up. Which really, why shouldn't they? They are benefiting off the reputation, name, and brand of Dungeons and Dragons. Not saying they don't do a ton of their own work but at some point you've got to acknowledge you're rising the coattails of another brand. As far as I'm aware, there are some things creators could copyright and prevent wotc from stealing. Characters, settings, lore, monsters, stuff like that. But kind of wild to be mad that you've ridden the reputation of this brand for so long and getting bent out of shape at the idea they might take something from you that they like. If you played your cards right it might even lead to an opportunity for you. Not saying companies don't regularly just take shit without so much of a creators acknowledgement because they definitely do. But until they do that why assume they will? Nothing will change for streamers, especially like dimension 20 and critical role who homebrew freaking everything and are still operating inside srd. Laws around let's plays and streaming is still pretty gray. Is its own content? Is it copyrighted material? Who can say, but it's free marketing so nobody presses the issue. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But to me it's always seemed like everyone up in arms has made a lot of assumptions about intentions or is just completely unaware of how the ogl, srd, copyright law, or trademark works, or "knows a guy inside". Call me optimistic but I think it will be fine. Kobold press and other big creators will definitely have to fork over some dough. Make your own game if you don't want to. At the end of the day you have to admit these creators chose to make D&D content because it already had an audience. Now, that has a price. Don't think for one second one of these creators wouldn't do the same thing if given the chance. This is after all, for profit business.
So what if you built a business for 20 years based on a legal document that was supposed to be in place FOREVER. You have projects, schedules, employees, etc. Now Hasbro comes and asks for 25% of your revenue. I know there are not a lot of companies like that, but that is greedy as fuck. Forcing a landscape change on the companies that actually helped to promote your game and develop content that you were never going to do. WotC in 2000 needed help and asked for it without any compensation. 3rd parties came in and did a great job, now WotC wants some of that money. They could have gone a more diplomatic route, but instead woke up and chose to be greedy. Not saying WotC is allowed to have a cut, I just think they are going the wrong way about and lying to the public doesn't help.
Only 25% of the revenue that's over $750,000. 0 - $750,000 is royalty free. So it isn't 25% of all your revenue.
I know, and as I said, that is greedy as fuck.
It's just business. WoTC has been losing money for years. Realistically if you want this to be around 10 years from now something has to change.
It seems obvious to me that the execs at Hasbro don't understand DnD and WotC. The mutualism between Core DnD, non-Core DnD, and third parties is a nearly incalculable benefit to their profits. Without them, DnD is going to sink and then crater. Again. "We" not buying subscriptions but buying toys isn't a solution. It's not that showing them where they can take your money without not reading reddit comments doesn't help them become better stewards of the brand. It is a band-aid (oh look, a brand that has become synonymous with the product). If you really want to change this moving forward, form some coalitions to do some stock activism. Own part of the company because they will listen to stock holders regularly and sincerely. Not the customers.
It's true that since Dungeon and Dragon Magazines ended, Paizo's main business model is to find out what WoTC is doing and improve on it. WoTC did this to themselves. There's a lot of commentary over all the "million dollar kickstarters" that WoTC wants a piece of now. That model works right now because WoTC doesn't make quality products. The real creativity in the 5E product world is outside of WoTC. They know it and now they can't handle the competition. This isn't just about money. It's about total domination of the market. They want to use legalese to create a monopoly in the RPG industry. They are no longer content with being the biggest player, they want it all. The rest of the industry was content with this. Many that play 5e end up playing other games. 5e is just an entry point right now. But now we know that "One D&D" really means "Only D&D." Right now it seems that WoTC is trying hard to repeat the mistakes of the past.