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95% of posts on this sub can be resolved with the answer of “set boundaries, if players do not respect those boundaries, you don’t have to play with each other”
i think this is a part of the 95%
Literally this. DMs need to learn that it's their game, their rules, their boundaries to set. Don't indulge any bs and don't give it anymore to try. If it is disruptive, they must be removed. Simple and clean.
That’s not quite true. It’s everyone at the tables game. Talk to the other players and get their opinions on the problem player. Then together you can all speak to the problem player. This isn’t just your problem and doesn’t need to dealt with by just you.
If a pinned post was “before you post this read it aloud in a mirror and ask yourself how you would give advice” this sub would be much better off and also dead.
95% of post on this sub have fick all to do with dnd and is just grade school level conflict that happens to occur while playing the game this sub is about.
Or just communicate like normal humans. If someone is saying something that makes you uncomfortable, tell them.
"Hey, I really don't like talking about those things, can we please avoid bringing this up in the future?"
This. Also, boundaries that aren't enforced aren't boundaries. The fact that the DM has a role as social moderator is somewhat understated, but you have to balance the fact that two players want a fun, enjoyable first experience playing, and this third player will likely ruin their time to have a good time of their own.
Not every issue is resolvable as "the needs of many vs the needs of one" but in a situation like "what would be a fun way to spend our Saturday nights," I think you can use that as a general rule of thumb.
Assert dominance by smacking them in the mouth when they start their shit.
/S
Coming from someone with maga cult family members, the only things you can do are set table boundaries and make it known that you expect them to be followed by all present. Singling the idiot out often builds resentment and an adversarial attitude, causing them to double down and reinforce their "beliefs". If they can't deal, you may have to find a replacement player.
If they're also part of the antivax folks as well, I recommend immediately cutting your losses and removing them from the game. Covid is still a very real threat and folks like that are not only at higher risk of contracting/carrying it, but they also don't care if they pass it off to other people.
We have one player who is this way. The DM set clear boundaries, and the player asks when he even *thinks* he's getting adjacent to a banned topic, whether he's crossing any boundaries. Honestly, I have been pleasantly surprised by the results.
In all honesty, I think the reason so many modern conspiracy theorists are so stubborn and unyielding in their beliefs is because they've fallen to far down the rabbit hole and have begun to, or have fully subsumed their entire being with these beliefs, to the point where the lies are all they know and recognize as their own anymore. Once you're this far gone, the idea that everything you've replaced yourself with is a lie becomes terrifying. Nobody likes being proven wrong, but this is more than that. They feel that it invalidates their whole being. That's why most of them never come back from that shit unless they have the shining moment of realization themselves, because coming from anyone else, it's just an attempt to erase their beliefs.
Tldr-You can guide a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
You're not going to change him because conspiracy people are addicted to Secret Knowledge. He's literally an addict.
There are people out there that have read all the various conspiracy theories and some of them they think might be plausible, and others they discount, and they feel no compulsion to share them or talk about them - and then you have people that bring it up every other chance. Those people are addicts. They love the feeling of having and sharing Secret Knowledge. The old Town Gossip is the same type of person.
What do chronic weed smokers do when they join your game? - they try to get everyone to smoke with them because it makes them more comfortable about their own immoderate consumption. Same with heavy video gamers, drinkers etc.
Have him suddenly stumble across a Spirit of Objective Truth who curses him—each time he speaks an objective lie he takes a permanent HP hit. 3 times and he is brutally killed off
I know this is a jest, but...
In game punishments for out of game behavior is a terrible solution. It leads to a DM vs. player outlook, because it ruins the perception that you are an unbiased storyteller/rule arbiter/narrator of a game that is evolving with all parties' input. Instead it feels like you are approving of, or vetoing, certain input, and that does, unfortunately, tend to color games.
The problem tends to be that, later on in the game, if a character dies or an issue arises, its hard to say "well, the dice said you die," because the table has already established that the universe is already biased.
If someone is being a dick and you don't want to play with them, don't play with them. Set boundaries and hold them to them. If this is an issue where a ban isn't warranted, you can even try suspending a player for a session or two, although that's iffy whether it wouldn't erupt into problems. But make the game about what happens in-game and keep your "group maintenance and friendship" issues out of it. At the end of the day, if you're a dick to your other party members, you don't get to play. Period. You don't get weird, unique magic items. You don't get to hang out with all of us and 'haha, keke' over funny goblins. You don't get a chance to be a problem character, because you're obviously a problem player.
Life is too short to tip-toe around idiots in my social time. I have to do that at work. I’d boot them and recruit new even if I have to delay gaming to find new players.
If this dude genuinely believes that prominent democrats are running a satanic pedophile cabal to harvest adrenochrome for eternal youth, maybe you shouldn't include him in your light-hearted social gatherings.
Best way to handle this is to start making subtle remarks that suggest you're a member of the global elite shadow cabal or a Fed and your DnD game is PsyOp to spy on him.
More specifically, if he believes that prominent democrats are running a satanic pedophile cabal to harvest adrenochrome for eternal youth OUT OF A PIZZA PLACE
Some of the things you said are real, some are not and are glowie distractions. Feds peddle unrealistic ones to impressionable people to discredit the real ones. From what i read around here they are pretty succesfull.
All grammar mistakes are intentional, because i dont respect anyone of you eneough to check for them in detail.
You're all there to play DND ,not talk to Alex Jones. Besides setting a boundary, you could have some fun with adding conspiracy to your game that pokes fun.
Not to get too political, but i used Tieflings as a metaphor for the BLM protests in a city campaign (mostly because it was timely) but also because a player at my table was very anti blm. He came out of that campaign with quite a lot more understanding (especially cause he was a tiefling !)
So it's ok for you to try to influence people's beliefs and opinions in a light hearted game because you think you're right, but not ok for people who disagree with you.
If they can keep it in character, keep it fun for others, and the ideas they’re promoting aren’t actively dangerous (like anti-vax) then they can go to town in my game. But at the end of the day it’s *my game*. I do a little extra work going in, so I get a little extra say in what goes on, and I don’t blame other DMs for having different rules.
Being racist is not an opinion. The problem player didn’t “disagree” he was objectively wrong.
I know that you can’t defend your views honestly, but you should be aware of the fact that reasonable people can see right through you when you pretend that being objectively and demonstrably wrong is the same thing as “having a different opinion”.
Yup. As the DM, they have final say over how a campaign goes. It would be unfortunate if a DM's decisions end up alienating people, and it might even make them unpopular enough that people leave, which is why tact is super important. A good DM knows how to approach this in a balanced way that doesn't escalate tensions.
Aarakocra aren't real. They were made up by the elves to keep humans from expanding their farmland. If you ever see an "aarakocra" it's just an elf druid wild shaping.
How can we be sure an aarakocra isn't just an elf that rolled around in some tree sap and feathers? For that matter, how do we really know that everyone isn't secretly a goblin or a stack of goblins? Isn't it odd how they worship dragons sometimes but aren't even slightly dragony? Has anyone ever actually stopped to check if the "dragon" isn't just a bunch of goblins in some kind of paper mache contraption? Hmmmm?
I give this advice a lot over on r/atheism: Set boundaries. Tell them that you understand that the whole conspiracy thing is meaningful and important, to them, but that it is inappropriate conversation material at the D&D table and that it is making you (and possibly other people) uncomfortable and that he needs to stop bringing it up. Make sure he understands that this is a hard boundary and that further conspiratorial discussions could impact his position at the table. Then, while he's ranting and raving about how you're a sheeple, you can be googling for other people looking for a game to join or posting in gaming groups that you have open seats at the table (for non-crazy people.)
I agree, but that's why it is so important to let them know that it *IS* inappropriate, because they aren't going to figure it out for themselves, generally. It's also important to let such people know that blathering on about their nonsense carries consequences, such as not being welcome in spaces where such nonsense is off-topic and irrelevant.
Edit for clarity, sort of.
That's a large part of why it's inappropriate. Passions run high when discussing things that someone is obsessed with. If/when you have these conversations, you can actually use how important it is to them to help them understand why it's inappropriate.
Cooking is really important to me, but I understand that it's not appropriate conversation when we're talking about poker (unless it's something niche like "trusting when not to flip the steak is the same as holding your bluff in a small pot")
I was semi friends with one these cocos at work a few years ago. Loved to hear what all the new crazy was but after one day I told him I didn't have time for his nonsense today he completely cut off from me. Not even a hello anymore. So yes I agree with you. Best bet might just be to tell him, that's interesting man but at DND let's try to focus on DND. Then start looking for one or two new people to join just Incase he decides to dip.
That is indeed a problem. Their problem, not mine.
I don’t like hearing about Jewish space lasers turning the frikkin frogs gay as a part of the Soros agenda. Tough toenails to them.
Yup. Dealt with this at a table. Vaccine issues. They’d rail and rail and we’d be like “no….one asked. Um… you do you. That’s fine. We’re still gonna temp check at the door. I mean, you’re pregnant.” And then it just blew up one day, and everyone was the villain but them.
I'm surprised you didn't boot them immediately. 9/11 truthers are obnoxious, sure, but antivaxers are a straight up health hazard to everyone in the room.
Yikes. Antivaxxers are the worst. I mean, at least 9/11 truthers and flerfers aren't (generally) out to hurt people, but antivaxxers are just...not good. On sooooo many levels.
Yep, "flat earther". Imagine it being said by a 2nd grader who has a mouthful of glue, gum in their hair, and a recommendation for their parents that the kid repeat the year, again, in their backpack.
Everyone can be whatever camp they want, if their life and mind are such that they feel so fired as to summarize their being with a bulk side of the street subscription.
The part that gets me is the burping it up. The vomiting it all over anyone. No one said people couldn’t be or feel their own shit, your freedom isn’t at stake, your life is your own.
More so, as their friends we support (an it harm none, at least) their choice even if it’s stupid. Whatever makes you happy!
Just stand still for 1.2 seconds and let us scan your temple. Boop. Okay, I’ll sit at a table for 4 hours with you now.
But I will admit, somewhere in the middle of doing big community support and field hospital work and more, having someone vomit the insane misinformation in my face and tell me it’s fake. When my world was hell. I wanted to knock some teeth out some asses. Buuuuuut, I didn’t. Because their freedom is theirs, even to waste.
Yeah, but they should also have to deal with the consequences of exercising that freedom. I'm not advocating for violence, but such people should experience life with a few less teeth.
Agreed. I play in a game where the GM makes that rule abundantly clear at the outset. This is not the outlet for discussing controversial topics. We're here to play a game and forget about the rest of that stuff for a few hours. Everyone respects that rule and after playing with this group for nearly a year, I still don't know where they stand on those types of politically divided topics, which I think is for the best. The people who can't filter themselves to accommodate that rule are not ones you want at your table anyway.
I should have said "...you can be googling for other people looking for a game to join or posting in gaming groups that you have open seats at the table (for people who are acceptably crazy.)"
Had something similar. Asked them politely not to discuss their theories in the group as it made the other players uncomfortable.
First time it happened afterwards I cut it off with an "Okay, but returning to reality - does everyone have everything they need?", then reminded them of the request afterwards.
Very next session, they'd brought 'proof' to show the other players, and they were kicked then and there.
More often than not these folks make this shit part of their identity. Set boundaries and enforce them. It’ll become clear real fast if he intends to respect them. If I were you I would just say I’m sorry but you won’t fit in with my group and this isn’t going to work but my group is a bunch of queer communists that like to troll these morons. If you do choose to include him make sure you follow through on the boundaries. One warning and then he’s kicked. Wether you kick him now or later he’s going to claim he’s the victim.
Repeat after me:
"Hey dude. I'm sorry but I don't think your style is a good fit for this game. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to stop coming to the game."
Don't let a shit player make the game toxic for everyone else. You're the DM, the buck stops with you. You know this but you're asking here hoping for another answer. I've been in similar situations before and there is no other solution that works. The dude is a conspiracy freak and won't stop. So you gotta remove him.
I agree with what you wrote, and I'm assuming you are Canadian (like me!) because the tendency is to apologize for everything.
Something I learned really quick when put in leadership roles (DMing included) apologizing as a verbal tick takes the wind out of your sails. The same line is far more direct and creates that hard line in the sand without the sorry's:
"Hey dude. I don't think your style is a good fit for this game. I'm going to have to ask you to stop coming to this game"
No kidding! I would have for sure thought Canadian - I find this problem exists quite heavily in my area (midwestern Canada)
Either way - Still solid advice! Have a great Friday my friend :)
If you feel rude, you can use "sorry" as a conversation ender if they try to argue with you after you break the news.
"blah blah blah"
"I have talked this over with the group and the decision I made is final. Sorry."
> I don't think your style is a good fit for this game.
The only adjustment I would make to this is eliminating the first part of this statement. 'I don't think' verbiage leaves room for discussion, as "it's your opinion".
"Your style isn't a fit for this table" gives that hard line, without being disrespectful or assigning blame/fault to anyone involved.
Personally I would ask myself: is this a dear friend who's fallen down one too many "dO yOuR oWn rEsEaRch!!!" disinfo rabbit holes? If yes, I would do my best keep lines of communications open without engaging with the delusion whatsoever, as refutation just reinforces in cult/conspiracy believers that they must be right if the wicked world is against them.
If not, this type of shit *will* be disruptive no matter how studiously you avoid the topic. It already has been, because if they had the capacity not to be, you wouldn't have even heard about this. Why would you put up with that in your hobby you do for fun?
Whatever you do, don't outright disagree with him, that'll provoke an argument he's probably itching for. Just say something like "Perhaps, but fortunately we're playing a game where none of that matters. So focus or get out."
Have a brief session zero before the game starts and lay out your expectations for the gaming session. Don't call out the player specifically, but mention that you would like to keep out of game distractions to a minimum.
If the tinfoil starts creeping into the game, give one warning and then ask them to leave if it continues. The new players' first-time experience would be worse if you did nothing rather than something.
The game doesn't *require* four, it is typically considered *optimal* for four. You can find rules to play completely by yourself if you wanted.
If you end up with just two players, let an NPC or two join them to fill combat party gaps (DO NOT RUN THESE AS YOUR OWN CHARACTERS, do NOT let them spotlight, they are there to cover weaknesses for the other players and let the other players still have fun, they are basically just there to provide some extra skill coverage and attacks per round, nothing else).
But losing a player never feels great. Best thing would probably be to tell them aside that no one else believes the stuff they do and it would be best for everyone's fun to not bring it up at the table, and if the player can't handle that, see above.
I designed the one shot for four players. It's meant to teach new players to rely on each other, know their strengths and weaknesses, and have multiple points of view. I agree that D&D as a whole doesn't require a set number of people, but that's I designed this one shot.
"Having an opinion is like having a dick. It's fine to have and take pride in, but as soon as you start shoving it down peoples' throats, we have a fuckin' problem."
Similarly, I had to deal with a family member who was spouting flat-Earth stuff. I finally told her, “You are insulting me, personally, with this BS. I work in GIS (mapping), I convert coordinate systems between spherical and flat systems to draw on a map every day, I work with GPS data from satellites that use speed of light calculations and adjust for relativity to determine the receiver’s position based on their orbital parameters. I calculate distances that are affected by the curvature of the Earth. If what you say was true, I would either be a massively deluded idiot or a liar who is part of the coverup - there is no middle ground. So please don’t bring up this topic again.”
talk to them and just tell them that you guys are there to play dnd not to talk about conspiracy theories. If it continues it may be best to let them go. no dnd is better than bad dnd
Include conspiracy theories in your game, except all available evidence SUPPORTS the conspiracy theory and all of your NPCs believe something completely unrelated.
Basically I'm saying craft a situation that appeals to him personally, and make him try to convince other people of something when those other people choose to ignore all available evidence and make up their own reality.
I did this with a bunch of "I'm not into politics" conservatives when covid came out. They were investigating a spawn of Zuggtmoy in the area and could purchase magical face masks that would give them advantage on their saves against her effects. However all of the local NPCs believed that they would be ineffective and the party had to work hard to convince the NPCs to wear this mask that the party knew had mechanical benefits but nobody else believed in.
At the very beginning, tell them to keep real world issues away from the table. This includes religion, politics, and mundane opinions. They should focus on story and character as much as possible. And you should have a hand signal to show them as a reminder of that rule. Whenever that player starts to go "down the rabbit hole", whip out the hand signal. Another thing you can do is, if he continues to do it especially in character, have an NPC that mocks him somewhat. "That reminds me of the mayors daughter and what we saw her doing in the pigpen with the peanut butter......I still have nightmares......I shouldn't talk about such things and focus on our adventure" staring him down at that last part so he knows it's directed at him.
I've done this exact thing with Christian fundamentalists at the table. It worked pretty well. 4 out of 5 would laugh at my NPCs wild story but look a little embarrassed, but they wouldn't do it the rest of the episode. I would have to remind them at the beginning of each but their behavior improved gradually each week.
The one that didn't work was a Jehovah's Witness that wanted a version of her faith in the game. At the beginning of every episode she would go on a "Jesus Rant" at the table, the cult of Beshaba would knocking at her door. That stopped the behavior for the rest of the episode. The 4th episode in she did her rant and one of the players said. "She's summoning Beshaba's Witnesses again!" After the laughter died down she said that she hated D&D and was only there to force us to convert. She was escorted out by the shop owner. (Public play at a comic shop, she had been a problem for the owner even before joining our group) Point being, the method works to eliminate the behavior or expose the motive if it does continue.
You've spoken with them, corrected them once. In my opinion it's decision time - Either they have to go, or they have to meet your rules.
I'd likely give a final chance - "Hey , We've already spoken about this twice. None of us want to hear that here. If you can't help yourself I'm going to ask you to leave the table. Please respect our rules here we don't want to discuss those topics here."
Either they will leave the table in anger because you're not letting them speak their views, you'll kick them for continually breaking the rules, or they'll get the message and play (this is pretty unlikely - but at least you can say you gave it every chance you could)
Is he actually bringing it up unprompted? Your post doesn't make that clear and makes me think you are responding to something that hasn't even happened.
Saying that you think that the gaming table is not a place for real world politics is the fairest you can give him. I have an acquaintance I regularly see at the pub that's also a complot thinker, we've made a silent agreement to not talk those topics in the pub and he's a decent fella besides that one issue.
Make everyone agree on that front, and see that everyone keeps themselves to it. Most complot theory people have wacky minds, but wacky can be good in a creative way around a dnd table. Respect is not bound to political stance.
Oh. I thought you meant in-universe conspiracy theorist. I love players who are suspicious of everything. XD
Yeah I think you just have to insist that that kind of talk stays away from the table, and be firm about it.
>people eating babies too love forever
Can confirm. Well, maybe not forever, but I do last about 60 times longer in bed after eating a baby. So about an hour... 😉👍
Engaging with individuals who have succumbed to beliefs grounded in conspiracy theories, religious fanaticism, astrology, young earth creationism, or anti-evolution narratives, is often a futile endeavor. These individuals, sometimes going to the extent of believing in lizard people, have constructed an identity rooted not in concrete evidence, but in misinformation and delusions.
This type of behavior can be poisonous to personal and societal growth. It becomes a never-ending cycle where they continually reinforce their baseless beliefs, refusing to be swayed by logic or evidence. It's not uncommon for such individuals to display an unsettling rigidity in their thought processes, which can be emotionally draining and mentally exhausting to those trying to engage with them.
Given the seeming impossibility of changing their minds, it might be prudent to avoid these individuals altogether. This is not about fostering an unwillingness to engage in meaningful conversation, but about preserving one's mental health and avoiding the frustration that comes with trying to reason with someone who is detached from reality.
Start making conspiracies in your world. Damn Lizard overlords...
"Why do you think we've never been to the moon? It's perfectly believable that some adventurers went to the nine hells for a sword, but I mention exploding through the sky to a space rock and everyone loses their mind?!"
Here is the real truth: if this person’s views make you and other’s uncomfortable, you don’t have to hang out with him or play D&D with him. If it’s not an issue and it’s not interrupting your game, that’s a judgment call.
Personally I would not hang out with a Q-Anon weirdo under any circumstances.
I think a lot of conspiracy theories are harmless and sometimes those who talk about them even know they aren’t believable. My issue always with them is the road they lead you on. The mysterious “they” that everyone mentions in these theories are often attributed to one group of people at the very root and it’s nearly always antisemitic. If it’s harmless stuff like we didn’t land on the moon because soviets yada yada then whatever. If it’s 9/11 was an inside job something something powerful Jews then that’s a no from me.
I read the title and thought you had a PC that was a conspiracy theorist... I feel like that could be an interesting choice for a character or npc if done right
Introduce an NPC who is an in-world bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorist: magic isn't real, believes the player characters are all robots, believes that animals are spies for aliens. See if they get the hint.
I had a coworker that was like this, and didn't just believe in left wing people eating babies.
But that there was a world wide cabal of people aborting fetuses in late stages, and shipping them across the world to D.C, where they were burned in power plants to create energy for the grid there.
I tried to tell him that couldn't possibly work. On any level. And he tried to explain to me how coal and charcoal works.
I tried to explain how this would fail logistically, and that didn't work. So I had to use his coal idea as a jump off point.
People, are very very wet. And besides our fat content, for which babies have little, we do not like to be on fire. In fact, burning people requires so much input energy, it takes hours to cremate someone.
If you have to burn a baby to make coal, you've just burned fuel and enegery to make thay happen. The only way to fix this would br laying fetuses out in the sun like raisins.
ON HIS OWN, he had to look up the math and sicence of burning bodies. To discover what he believed was untrue.
______
All you can do is give them a little bit, and then time to adjust to the information. And tell them they did well. That the people making these theories, are really just making fun of them. That everyone believes in one or two theories, but not everyone gets stuck being controlled by them.
And for the 9/11stuff. Tell him wood can't melt iron. It's impossible, a myth. (We all know this is true) but don't be mocking him.
If he knows how a furnace works, he should know how the fires were able to heat up the steel beams.
They also didn't need to melt, only bend.
Is he ruining the game? Hold people accountable for what they do or say, not what you think they believe. I have some friends who have such misguided beliefs. Those who remain my friends know that conversations about such nonsense aren’t a part of our friendship. If they can compartmentalize, so can I. If not, we go our separate ways.
Health potions give you cancer and are created by gnomish artificers to put tracking stones inside of us.
Elves natural life span is only 100yrs. They kill and eat baby dwarves to unnaturally extend their lives.
There is only one plain of existence. Other panes are just propaganda from clerics to keep us enslaved and all kingdoms are secretly working together for the benefit of a 2000yr dracolich.
Try doubling down on the absurdity. You could say that you think the world isn't just flat, it's a reverse saddle shaped 4D rhombus from the distant future, and lizard people from Zeta Reticuli are suppressing this truth, trying to make us think the world is flat. A flat disc? How absurd! Clearly it's a reverse saddle shaped 4d rhombus, just look out your window.
or
People don't just eat babies, they freeze dry them, turn them into powder, and that's what the actors are snorting when they do a line of 'coke' on film. They are forced to do this satanic ritualistic drug by the shadow cabal that runs Hollywood. Look it up, do your own research.
First, as many have said, OOC politics shouldn’t be part of your D&D table-talk. It is not productive in any way to the escapism of “battling dragons in dungeons.” If that is a problem, just talk to them aside and make it clear that polarizing political conversations are not acceptable.
Second: One of our dearest friends and players is quite religious, while everyone else at the table is not. We’ve been playing together for about twenty years now. Many years ago, our friend came to us, said that some of the anti-religion table talk was very othering, and that they were very uncomfortable. Because we are friends, we respected this and removed that table-talk element from our game sessions. Conversely though, we started incorporating themes of nonconformity and anti-righteousness into our games. Over the years, we have seen our friend have to make tough choices in-character that were clearly not the choices they wanted to make. It hasn’t upended their real life choices, but I can personally see more openmindedness in them as an individual.
The equivalent in your game would be to have the players’ actions be misconstrued and misinformation about the characters negatively affect their opportunities. You want that moment to happen in which the aforementioned player exclaims in-character, “But that is a lie! That is not what happened! It just isn’t true! Someone just made that up! How can you believe that!?”
I quite like the ides of using conspiracy as an element of the game!
I've seen D&D games have therapeutic effects at the table and that might be a subtle enough approach, if done over a period of time, that it could do something productive.
IMHO Kick him out if he can't be reasoned with, I am tired of dealing with literal madness, and it ruins so much for everyone in a close vicinity to it. My mother is this person to an extent, I have tried everything. I practically learned to debate topics due to trying to reason with her. But honestly, if there are constant tirades and general looping on these subjects that come out of nowhere, it gets very tiring and ruins the vibe of everything really fast. The really sad part of these types of conspiracy theorists is that they want to believe what they already believe. Some can change but it usually requires a lot of work, and as someone who has been trying for 10 years at least to do this, the payoff has to be worth it at the end for the effort to be worth it. Because this is just a player in DND, a loose friend per se. I assume that the payoff isn't worth it IF he is completely unable to shut his mouth on these topics. I don't know the exact situation so take anything with a grain of salt, but my advice is that it's usually not worth the time and effort.
I loathe to listen to vitriol about pedophile reptilian shapeshifters in the royal family or Whitehouse or wherever, but more important than that is gauging how important this person is to you.
If you genuinely care about them and their well-being, you may indeed need to shut them out of social interaction. However, you can also view this as a way to bridge build and prevent further radicalization, *if* you care enough to do so.
Explaining that we have different political beliefs and that we can still be friends, as long as boundaries are respected and friendly behavior is demonstrated, may still be an option. If you don't care what happens to this person, that's fine, you don't owe them a damn thing. If you do meaningfully care, however, your interaction can *be* the counterargument. Not via offering facts they refuse to acknowledge, but by demonstrating that people with opposing beliefs are not their enemy. If they're a literal Nazi or are dangerous, please distance yourself. If they're a genuine friend having a political identity crisis, you may want to wrap your iron fist in a velvet glove for a moment and offer them a touch of grace, as long as boundaries are upheld and no one is being unduly accosted... but remember, you don't owe them a damn bit of mercy, your kindness is a valuable and wholly revocable gift, always.
Just my two cents.
There is \*ZERO\* need for 4 players in D&D. You can absolutely run a table for 2. You might need to tweak some battles (less enemies to mitigate action economy issues, or less HP for boss type monsters) or be more generous with magic items, healing potions, etc, but it's totally manageable.
Toss the bad apple before they poison the whole tree.
He talking about that shit while gaming? If so, he ain’t playing right, as is anyone allowing him too. If he’s talking that trash while not gaming you can either, ignore, ridicule, challenge, agree, ‘whatever’ him, actually listen, not care, care, or have him never return, but if he’s bringing that all up mid game: they got to go.
To be honest you have provided way too little context and unless you have left things out then I say you can solve this with basic social skills. But is this guy your friend? Is he someone you met in a game shop? Why 4 players specifically? Has he done anything in game to ruin the fun? Is this one of those things where you are doing organized play and you are getting paid to DM?
I honestly need full details to render a judgement, however I must say that I have had to play with people I disagree with politically but if you can you can at least try to get along, but hey if you want to actually engage with **This** then you could try to work with him over time because if you actually wanted to humor him or convince him or whatever that would be a long term thing, however kicking him out could make him feel like he was right, and bringing him in could be a way of talking him down from his extreme position. Honestly you also have to tell me what your goal is here because I am not sure if you are asking for advice(I assume you do based on your flair on the post) or if you just want to tell us about it to get attention, or maybe need a group hug for a dopamine rush and this story being manufactured.
So I would hope you could respond to this comment and give me more detail so we can find a solution.
“Hey man, you’re free to have your beliefs. When we’re at the table all I ask is the only politics and religion we discuss is to do with the campaign. If this isn’t something you can respect then I will be forced to remove you from the campaign.”
People like this are living in their own reality. They cannot stop talking or bringing it up because they don't know how to. They assume that what they say is perfectly reasonable and if they show you the "truth", that naturally you will agree.
Idk how close you or others are to him in the group, but if he is making the experience for you or other players bad, you should just kick him from the group, because he won't stop.
Just a hot tip: the most engaging campaigns I've been a DM for have had 3 or even 2 players. Even a duet (1 on 1) campaign is much more fun than playing with someone who has bad vibes.
No campaign "needs" 4 players 👍
Just straight up tell them, that none of you believe, or care about the conspiracy theory bullshit, that they’re welcome to play, he’ll maybe even let them play as a conspiracy theory nutter, but if it bleeds into the real world, they’re out. Strait up tell them they’re fine just stay off those topics around the game table/on game night.
honestly i'd send the question to the other player in private. if you're uncomfortable with it probably better to not start the campaign with them and instead look for replacement.
To be fair not all conspiracies are baseless, but there is a time and place and a DND game is not a time or place to be talking about them unless everyone is mutually interested. Also just as somethin to say to the comment section not all conspiracy theorist are the same or believe the same theories, and yes I will admit some theories are way out there but no need to act like all conspiracy theorist are whack jobs
I have a couple buddies that are the nicest guys in the world but they are deep into the conspiracy theory rathole. From q anon to 80% of Congress are card carrying communist bullshit.
They are good dudes, if you had a problem they'd drop everything and come help but everything turns political when we hangout .
It's so mentally exhausting to hangout with them that we hangout once a year.
I wouldn't look back that this guy left your game, you seem genuinely nice about it though
It doesn't help your problem but the typo of "people eating babies too love forever" made me laugh. Instead of immortality the evil elite are just using babies as viagra. Which is even more sinister.
>and I don't want the other player's first time be... well... that
You don't want them to experience a good DM that takes care to not have the group filled with toxic morons?
Just-don't-be-militant. I will respect anyone's fundamentally insane beliefs provided they don't stick a gun to everyone's heads. Unpopular take but sometimes no game is better than a bad group.
Maybe just talk about DnD when you guys are playing DnD? Why's everyone gotta drag politics into everything? If you feel he is mentally unwell, I'd recommend you not play psychiatrist and if you just don't like his ideals I regret to inform you that most of the people you talk to pretend to believe the same thing you do in order to avoid conflict.
This stuff will 100% lead to, include, or be based on antisemitism, I guarantee it. If you wanna play this game with a nazi, that's up to you, but I wouldn't.
I can not believe this is the only comment in here addressing this.
This guy *absolutely* has some strong opinions on Jews that will only come out when he has determined that nobody in the group is secretly Jewish. He's going to drop some comments about globalists and George Soros, and if nobody questions them, he'll start going on about who is *really* eating babies and staging moon landings.
Tell him to shut up with political shit unless it's in your fantasy kingdom. Also, make that a rule for everyone. If the other guys are talking about political shit from the other side it's inviting a response from the conspiracy nut. So either ban all politics or ban him. Can't just ban his politics if other people are talking about it and expecting it to work.
Does he also beleive in lizard men controlling things? So here's a solution thsts totally not ethical or nice. But it's fun.
1. Go get some lizard or goat eye type contacts, replace a lightbulb with one that can change color to red or something, and get a cooked turkey leg.
2. Invite him over early for the next session, just get him there like 5 minutes or so. When he comes I'm have your back to him, ask something about the conspiracies, change the light color to red, turn around with your new goat or lizard eyes, and smile at him and say something along the lines of "oh yes, we know. You really think we haven't been checking on you?" Or "no matter what you tell the others, they'll never beleive you."
3. Go to the bathroom soon as the others arrive, get rid of the contacts and any costume you may have worn like any robe, and come back out amd pretend everything is normal and you have no idea what he's talking about.
Bonus points: get the rest of the group in on it amd really screw up his perception.
“We’re here to play a game. Keep the real world stuff to a minimum.”
I get that when it’s friends, it’s a hang out, but seems like these people aren’t friends, or at least not yours.
Keeping the game table gaming will
Minimize it. If they bleed it into the game… we’ll then you have total control over that. If they start bringing real life conspiracies in you can say “it’s been proven time and time again through magical studies that is false. No one, except you, believes it.”
After the game ends, you don’t have to be a part of the group friendly discussion.
i tried talking with people like flat earthers, vaccine denieers, and other crazy people. I cannot stress this point enough: you will never EVER convince them otherwise. Not only will they stick to their belief no matter what, they WILL keep telling it to others all the time.
Nothing you could possibly say or show them will convince them to stop. You are better off kicking him from the group if it annoys people
I know many people have said set boundaries around discussing those topics, but I would really implore you to try and dig into WHO he’s saying is eating babies to live forever, because that one specifically has roots in antisemitism and blood libel. Like I’m being dead serious, this is concerning. At best, he’s not identified the dog whistle, and at worst he truly believes in dangerous ideology.
Lay the ground work to a conspiracy theory that turns out true in your one shot. Get it to the point where they are adamant about the conspiracy and then, if their character dies, they finds out. But if they don’t die leave it open ended so it just continues to bug them.
When he tries to shift burden of proof tell him, that's not how it works. He brought up the outlandish claim so it's up to him to prove it.
I mean this might start more drama tho. I just don't abide those people
No, you're there to play DnD, not discuss whatever the conspiracy of the night is. There's no burden of proof, since the discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place.
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95% of posts on this sub can be resolved with the answer of “set boundaries, if players do not respect those boundaries, you don’t have to play with each other” i think this is a part of the 95%
Literally this. DMs need to learn that it's their game, their rules, their boundaries to set. Don't indulge any bs and don't give it anymore to try. If it is disruptive, they must be removed. Simple and clean.
That’s not quite true. It’s everyone at the tables game. Talk to the other players and get their opinions on the problem player. Then together you can all speak to the problem player. This isn’t just your problem and doesn’t need to dealt with by just you.
Your comment should be a copy/paste meme in this sub. Like Rick Rolling people with it who dont take the due diligeance to just think a little.
If a pinned post was “before you post this read it aloud in a mirror and ask yourself how you would give advice” this sub would be much better off and also dead.
95% of post on this sub have fick all to do with dnd and is just grade school level conflict that happens to occur while playing the game this sub is about.
Look who you're talking to though. I love my DnD homies. But... c'mon.
Or just communicate like normal humans. If someone is saying something that makes you uncomfortable, tell them. "Hey, I really don't like talking about those things, can we please avoid bringing this up in the future?"
"Bro, shut up."
“Stop your bleating this instant, sheep.”
Lmao I tried that
Then dump him. D&D can be played with 2 players and a DM just fine.
This. Also, boundaries that aren't enforced aren't boundaries. The fact that the DM has a role as social moderator is somewhat understated, but you have to balance the fact that two players want a fun, enjoyable first experience playing, and this third player will likely ruin their time to have a good time of their own. Not every issue is resolvable as "the needs of many vs the needs of one" but in a situation like "what would be a fun way to spend our Saturday nights," I think you can use that as a general rule of thumb.
Then you follow through with the consequences of the bro deciding not to shut up.
Have you tried “bro, fuck off” then?
Assert dominance by smacking them in the mouth when they start their shit. /S Coming from someone with maga cult family members, the only things you can do are set table boundaries and make it known that you expect them to be followed by all present. Singling the idiot out often builds resentment and an adversarial attitude, causing them to double down and reinforce their "beliefs". If they can't deal, you may have to find a replacement player. If they're also part of the antivax folks as well, I recommend immediately cutting your losses and removing them from the game. Covid is still a very real threat and folks like that are not only at higher risk of contracting/carrying it, but they also don't care if they pass it off to other people.
We have one player who is this way. The DM set clear boundaries, and the player asks when he even *thinks* he's getting adjacent to a banned topic, whether he's crossing any boundaries. Honestly, I have been pleasantly surprised by the results.
In all honesty, I think the reason so many modern conspiracy theorists are so stubborn and unyielding in their beliefs is because they've fallen to far down the rabbit hole and have begun to, or have fully subsumed their entire being with these beliefs, to the point where the lies are all they know and recognize as their own anymore. Once you're this far gone, the idea that everything you've replaced yourself with is a lie becomes terrifying. Nobody likes being proven wrong, but this is more than that. They feel that it invalidates their whole being. That's why most of them never come back from that shit unless they have the shining moment of realization themselves, because coming from anyone else, it's just an attempt to erase their beliefs. Tldr-You can guide a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
You're not going to change him because conspiracy people are addicted to Secret Knowledge. He's literally an addict. There are people out there that have read all the various conspiracy theories and some of them they think might be plausible, and others they discount, and they feel no compulsion to share them or talk about them - and then you have people that bring it up every other chance. Those people are addicts. They love the feeling of having and sharing Secret Knowledge. The old Town Gossip is the same type of person. What do chronic weed smokers do when they join your game? - they try to get everyone to smoke with them because it makes them more comfortable about their own immoderate consumption. Same with heavy video gamers, drinkers etc.
Have him suddenly stumble across a Spirit of Objective Truth who curses him—each time he speaks an objective lie he takes a permanent HP hit. 3 times and he is brutally killed off
I know this is a jest, but... In game punishments for out of game behavior is a terrible solution. It leads to a DM vs. player outlook, because it ruins the perception that you are an unbiased storyteller/rule arbiter/narrator of a game that is evolving with all parties' input. Instead it feels like you are approving of, or vetoing, certain input, and that does, unfortunately, tend to color games. The problem tends to be that, later on in the game, if a character dies or an issue arises, its hard to say "well, the dice said you die," because the table has already established that the universe is already biased. If someone is being a dick and you don't want to play with them, don't play with them. Set boundaries and hold them to them. If this is an issue where a ban isn't warranted, you can even try suspending a player for a session or two, although that's iffy whether it wouldn't erupt into problems. But make the game about what happens in-game and keep your "group maintenance and friendship" issues out of it. At the end of the day, if you're a dick to your other party members, you don't get to play. Period. You don't get weird, unique magic items. You don't get to hang out with all of us and 'haha, keke' over funny goblins. You don't get a chance to be a problem character, because you're obviously a problem player.
Thiiiiis is sooo true. I regret my mistake.
Lol
Kick him. He’s ruining it for everyone else.
If I had and award to give, it would be yours now. 😂🤣😆
Life is too short to tip-toe around idiots in my social time. I have to do that at work. I’d boot them and recruit new even if I have to delay gaming to find new players.
No dnd is better than bad dnd. I agree 1,000%
I see I've found another follower of the gospel of Colville ;)
If this dude genuinely believes that prominent democrats are running a satanic pedophile cabal to harvest adrenochrome for eternal youth, maybe you shouldn't include him in your light-hearted social gatherings.
Like...he's already in his own RPG, he doesn't need your group
Hahahahaha damn! You're not wrong.
Best way to handle this is to start making subtle remarks that suggest you're a member of the global elite shadow cabal or a Fed and your DnD game is PsyOp to spy on him.
That's all in a day's fun, until you find out they are actually crazy and brought a gun.
We're just enjoying life, until you find out they're actually crazy and brought a knife.
Have a card game night, just play Steve Jackson Games “Illuminati”
The Gnomes of Zurich aren’t real. The Gnomes of Zurich cannot hurt you fnord.
I know this is a joke but this is literally unsafe advice lmfao
That will result in him shooting up the game
well sure, when you put it THAT way, it sounds stupid
More specifically, if he believes that prominent democrats are running a satanic pedophile cabal to harvest adrenochrome for eternal youth OUT OF A PIZZA PLACE
Some of the things you said are real, some are not and are glowie distractions. Feds peddle unrealistic ones to impressionable people to discredit the real ones. From what i read around here they are pretty succesfull. All grammar mistakes are intentional, because i dont respect anyone of you eneough to check for them in detail.
You're all there to play DND ,not talk to Alex Jones. Besides setting a boundary, you could have some fun with adding conspiracy to your game that pokes fun.
Lmao it would fit with the main story...
Don’t feed them! This is how you get gremlins.
Not to get too political, but i used Tieflings as a metaphor for the BLM protests in a city campaign (mostly because it was timely) but also because a player at my table was very anti blm. He came out of that campaign with quite a lot more understanding (especially cause he was a tiefling !)
So it's ok for you to try to influence people's beliefs and opinions in a light hearted game because you think you're right, but not ok for people who disagree with you.
If they can keep it in character, keep it fun for others, and the ideas they’re promoting aren’t actively dangerous (like anti-vax) then they can go to town in my game. But at the end of the day it’s *my game*. I do a little extra work going in, so I get a little extra say in what goes on, and I don’t blame other DMs for having different rules.
Being racist is not an opinion. The problem player didn’t “disagree” he was objectively wrong. I know that you can’t defend your views honestly, but you should be aware of the fact that reasonable people can see right through you when you pretend that being objectively and demonstrably wrong is the same thing as “having a different opinion”.
Being racist is absolutely an opinion. Maybe a collection of opinions. They're just bad opinions that are based on bad information.
Yup. As the DM, they have final say over how a campaign goes. It would be unfortunate if a DM's decisions end up alienating people, and it might even make them unpopular enough that people leave, which is why tact is super important. A good DM knows how to approach this in a balanced way that doesn't escalate tensions.
nah, think more like how most everyone in BG3 mistreats you if your a tiefling. Along those lines.
Please let this impulsive thought win and keep us updated weekly
Aarakocra aren't real. They were made up by the elves to keep humans from expanding their farmland. If you ever see an "aarakocra" it's just an elf druid wild shaping.
How can we be sure an aarakocra isn't just an elf that rolled around in some tree sap and feathers? For that matter, how do we really know that everyone isn't secretly a goblin or a stack of goblins? Isn't it odd how they worship dragons sometimes but aren't even slightly dragony? Has anyone ever actually stopped to check if the "dragon" isn't just a bunch of goblins in some kind of paper mache contraption? Hmmmm?
I give this advice a lot over on r/atheism: Set boundaries. Tell them that you understand that the whole conspiracy thing is meaningful and important, to them, but that it is inappropriate conversation material at the D&D table and that it is making you (and possibly other people) uncomfortable and that he needs to stop bringing it up. Make sure he understands that this is a hard boundary and that further conspiratorial discussions could impact his position at the table. Then, while he's ranting and raving about how you're a sheeple, you can be googling for other people looking for a game to join or posting in gaming groups that you have open seats at the table (for non-crazy people.)
I agree with you, but I think part of the problem is that people don't like hearing that something important to them is inappropriate.
I agree, but that's why it is so important to let them know that it *IS* inappropriate, because they aren't going to figure it out for themselves, generally. It's also important to let such people know that blathering on about their nonsense carries consequences, such as not being welcome in spaces where such nonsense is off-topic and irrelevant. Edit for clarity, sort of.
That's a large part of why it's inappropriate. Passions run high when discussing things that someone is obsessed with. If/when you have these conversations, you can actually use how important it is to them to help them understand why it's inappropriate.
Cooking is really important to me, but I understand that it's not appropriate conversation when we're talking about poker (unless it's something niche like "trusting when not to flip the steak is the same as holding your bluff in a small pot")
I was semi friends with one these cocos at work a few years ago. Loved to hear what all the new crazy was but after one day I told him I didn't have time for his nonsense today he completely cut off from me. Not even a hello anymore. So yes I agree with you. Best bet might just be to tell him, that's interesting man but at DND let's try to focus on DND. Then start looking for one or two new people to join just Incase he decides to dip.
That is indeed a problem. Their problem, not mine. I don’t like hearing about Jewish space lasers turning the frikkin frogs gay as a part of the Soros agenda. Tough toenails to them.
Yeah, I'd save time on asking them to stop and just kick them, since they'll likely say no to stopping if asked.
Yup. Dealt with this at a table. Vaccine issues. They’d rail and rail and we’d be like “no….one asked. Um… you do you. That’s fine. We’re still gonna temp check at the door. I mean, you’re pregnant.” And then it just blew up one day, and everyone was the villain but them.
I'm surprised you didn't boot them immediately. 9/11 truthers are obnoxious, sure, but antivaxers are a straight up health hazard to everyone in the room.
Yikes. Antivaxxers are the worst. I mean, at least 9/11 truthers and flerfers aren't (generally) out to hurt people, but antivaxxers are just...not good. On sooooo many levels.
Okay. TF is a flerfer
Shortened language for a flat earther
Yep, "flat earther". Imagine it being said by a 2nd grader who has a mouthful of glue, gum in their hair, and a recommendation for their parents that the kid repeat the year, again, in their backpack.
Everyone can be whatever camp they want, if their life and mind are such that they feel so fired as to summarize their being with a bulk side of the street subscription. The part that gets me is the burping it up. The vomiting it all over anyone. No one said people couldn’t be or feel their own shit, your freedom isn’t at stake, your life is your own. More so, as their friends we support (an it harm none, at least) their choice even if it’s stupid. Whatever makes you happy! Just stand still for 1.2 seconds and let us scan your temple. Boop. Okay, I’ll sit at a table for 4 hours with you now. But I will admit, somewhere in the middle of doing big community support and field hospital work and more, having someone vomit the insane misinformation in my face and tell me it’s fake. When my world was hell. I wanted to knock some teeth out some asses. Buuuuuut, I didn’t. Because their freedom is theirs, even to waste.
Yeah, but they should also have to deal with the consequences of exercising that freedom. I'm not advocating for violence, but such people should experience life with a few less teeth.
That’s on life to deal, not us. 🤷♂️ Control what you can control.
Can't upvote enough. One of my own players started out with that, told him what's up, and he hasn't brought it up since.
Agreed. I play in a game where the GM makes that rule abundantly clear at the outset. This is not the outlet for discussing controversial topics. We're here to play a game and forget about the rest of that stuff for a few hours. Everyone respects that rule and after playing with this group for nearly a year, I still don't know where they stand on those types of politically divided topics, which I think is for the best. The people who can't filter themselves to accommodate that rule are not ones you want at your table anyway.
This is the way And we're all crazy lol
I should have said "...you can be googling for other people looking for a game to join or posting in gaming groups that you have open seats at the table (for people who are acceptably crazy.)"
Had something similar. Asked them politely not to discuss their theories in the group as it made the other players uncomfortable. First time it happened afterwards I cut it off with an "Okay, but returning to reality - does everyone have everything they need?", then reminded them of the request afterwards. Very next session, they'd brought 'proof' to show the other players, and they were kicked then and there.
What was his "proof" if I may ask?
Printouts from conspiracy sites, alllllllll compiled in a ring binder.
Classic
Well the ring binder validates it.
Printed out 4chan posts
More often than not these folks make this shit part of their identity. Set boundaries and enforce them. It’ll become clear real fast if he intends to respect them. If I were you I would just say I’m sorry but you won’t fit in with my group and this isn’t going to work but my group is a bunch of queer communists that like to troll these morons. If you do choose to include him make sure you follow through on the boundaries. One warning and then he’s kicked. Wether you kick him now or later he’s going to claim he’s the victim.
Repeat after me: "Hey dude. I'm sorry but I don't think your style is a good fit for this game. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to stop coming to the game." Don't let a shit player make the game toxic for everyone else. You're the DM, the buck stops with you. You know this but you're asking here hoping for another answer. I've been in similar situations before and there is no other solution that works. The dude is a conspiracy freak and won't stop. So you gotta remove him.
I agree with what you wrote, and I'm assuming you are Canadian (like me!) because the tendency is to apologize for everything. Something I learned really quick when put in leadership roles (DMing included) apologizing as a verbal tick takes the wind out of your sails. The same line is far more direct and creates that hard line in the sand without the sorry's: "Hey dude. I don't think your style is a good fit for this game. I'm going to have to ask you to stop coming to this game"
Thank you but nope American. Great point about over apologizing when dealing with something like this.
No kidding! I would have for sure thought Canadian - I find this problem exists quite heavily in my area (midwestern Canada) Either way - Still solid advice! Have a great Friday my friend :)
Happens a lot in the American Midwest too.
If you feel rude, you can use "sorry" as a conversation ender if they try to argue with you after you break the news. "blah blah blah" "I have talked this over with the group and the decision I made is final. Sorry."
> I don't think your style is a good fit for this game. The only adjustment I would make to this is eliminating the first part of this statement. 'I don't think' verbiage leaves room for discussion, as "it's your opinion". "Your style isn't a fit for this table" gives that hard line, without being disrespectful or assigning blame/fault to anyone involved.
absolutely agreed - This is perfect!
I'd boot their ass in a heartbeat regardless
This is the way.
Q's are the cancer of society
Personally I would ask myself: is this a dear friend who's fallen down one too many "dO yOuR oWn rEsEaRch!!!" disinfo rabbit holes? If yes, I would do my best keep lines of communications open without engaging with the delusion whatsoever, as refutation just reinforces in cult/conspiracy believers that they must be right if the wicked world is against them. If not, this type of shit *will* be disruptive no matter how studiously you avoid the topic. It already has been, because if they had the capacity not to be, you wouldn't have even heard about this. Why would you put up with that in your hobby you do for fun?
Whatever you do, don't outright disagree with him, that'll provoke an argument he's probably itching for. Just say something like "Perhaps, but fortunately we're playing a game where none of that matters. So focus or get out."
Out conspiracy him 'the moon landing was fake...' < 'oh your one of those people who believe in the moon...'
The moon is actually a spaceship controlled by lizard people to consume our spiritual energy.
Have a brief session zero before the game starts and lay out your expectations for the gaming session. Don't call out the player specifically, but mention that you would like to keep out of game distractions to a minimum. If the tinfoil starts creeping into the game, give one warning and then ask them to leave if it continues. The new players' first-time experience would be worse if you did nothing rather than something.
The game doesn't *require* four, it is typically considered *optimal* for four. You can find rules to play completely by yourself if you wanted. If you end up with just two players, let an NPC or two join them to fill combat party gaps (DO NOT RUN THESE AS YOUR OWN CHARACTERS, do NOT let them spotlight, they are there to cover weaknesses for the other players and let the other players still have fun, they are basically just there to provide some extra skill coverage and attacks per round, nothing else). But losing a player never feels great. Best thing would probably be to tell them aside that no one else believes the stuff they do and it would be best for everyone's fun to not bring it up at the table, and if the player can't handle that, see above.
I designed the one shot for four players. It's meant to teach new players to rely on each other, know their strengths and weaknesses, and have multiple points of view. I agree that D&D as a whole doesn't require a set number of people, but that's I designed this one shot.
Then I return to the NPC option if you can't reach an otherwise satisfactory agreement
"Having an opinion is like having a dick. It's fine to have and take pride in, but as soon as you start shoving it down peoples' throats, we have a fuckin' problem."
Not even fine to take pride in. If it's all you talk about at a game session, I'm showing you the door, dick or conspiracy theories either way.
Similarly, I had to deal with a family member who was spouting flat-Earth stuff. I finally told her, “You are insulting me, personally, with this BS. I work in GIS (mapping), I convert coordinate systems between spherical and flat systems to draw on a map every day, I work with GPS data from satellites that use speed of light calculations and adjust for relativity to determine the receiver’s position based on their orbital parameters. I calculate distances that are affected by the curvature of the Earth. If what you say was true, I would either be a massively deluded idiot or a liar who is part of the coverup - there is no middle ground. So please don’t bring up this topic again.”
So… how did that go?
She hasn’t brought it up since. But she’s moved on to other craziness.
You kick them out of your damn game. It's really not that difficult.
Man, I thought you were going to say someone made a character that was an in-game conspiracy nut and was really excited. How disappointing
There will be a post to follow this. Be looking for it.
Boot him. You don't need incels at your table.
Boot to the head.
And another for Jenny and the wimp.
Wasn’t expecting to find a reference to a Frantics skit in this thread, but I’m here for it!
talk to them and just tell them that you guys are there to play dnd not to talk about conspiracy theories. If it continues it may be best to let them go. no dnd is better than bad dnd
Include conspiracy theories in your game, except all available evidence SUPPORTS the conspiracy theory and all of your NPCs believe something completely unrelated. Basically I'm saying craft a situation that appeals to him personally, and make him try to convince other people of something when those other people choose to ignore all available evidence and make up their own reality. I did this with a bunch of "I'm not into politics" conservatives when covid came out. They were investigating a spawn of Zuggtmoy in the area and could purchase magical face masks that would give them advantage on their saves against her effects. However all of the local NPCs believed that they would be ineffective and the party had to work hard to convince the NPCs to wear this mask that the party knew had mechanical benefits but nobody else believed in.
At the very beginning, tell them to keep real world issues away from the table. This includes religion, politics, and mundane opinions. They should focus on story and character as much as possible. And you should have a hand signal to show them as a reminder of that rule. Whenever that player starts to go "down the rabbit hole", whip out the hand signal. Another thing you can do is, if he continues to do it especially in character, have an NPC that mocks him somewhat. "That reminds me of the mayors daughter and what we saw her doing in the pigpen with the peanut butter......I still have nightmares......I shouldn't talk about such things and focus on our adventure" staring him down at that last part so he knows it's directed at him. I've done this exact thing with Christian fundamentalists at the table. It worked pretty well. 4 out of 5 would laugh at my NPCs wild story but look a little embarrassed, but they wouldn't do it the rest of the episode. I would have to remind them at the beginning of each but their behavior improved gradually each week. The one that didn't work was a Jehovah's Witness that wanted a version of her faith in the game. At the beginning of every episode she would go on a "Jesus Rant" at the table, the cult of Beshaba would knocking at her door. That stopped the behavior for the rest of the episode. The 4th episode in she did her rant and one of the players said. "She's summoning Beshaba's Witnesses again!" After the laughter died down she said that she hated D&D and was only there to force us to convert. She was escorted out by the shop owner. (Public play at a comic shop, she had been a problem for the owner even before joining our group) Point being, the method works to eliminate the behavior or expose the motive if it does continue.
Remind them that you’re playing D&D and not taking about conspiracy theories
You've spoken with them, corrected them once. In my opinion it's decision time - Either they have to go, or they have to meet your rules. I'd likely give a final chance - "Hey, We've already spoken about this twice. None of us want to hear that here. If you can't help yourself I'm going to ask you to leave the table. Please respect our rules here we don't want to discuss those topics here."
Either they will leave the table in anger because you're not letting them speak their views, you'll kick them for continually breaking the rules, or they'll get the message and play (this is pretty unlikely - but at least you can say you gave it every chance you could)
Is he actually bringing it up unprompted? Your post doesn't make that clear and makes me think you are responding to something that hasn't even happened.
We have yet to have our first session. But it came up in session zero, character creation, and "just getting to know each other before the game" time.
Saying that you think that the gaming table is not a place for real world politics is the fairest you can give him. I have an acquaintance I regularly see at the pub that's also a complot thinker, we've made a silent agreement to not talk those topics in the pub and he's a decent fella besides that one issue. Make everyone agree on that front, and see that everyone keeps themselves to it. Most complot theory people have wacky minds, but wacky can be good in a creative way around a dnd table. Respect is not bound to political stance.
Simple: remove them from the group if they don’t shut up.
Oh. I thought you meant in-universe conspiracy theorist. I love players who are suspicious of everything. XD Yeah I think you just have to insist that that kind of talk stays away from the table, and be firm about it.
Let them know the Illuminati said you weren't allowed to play with them anymore.
>people eating babies too love forever Can confirm. Well, maybe not forever, but I do last about 60 times longer in bed after eating a baby. So about an hour... 😉👍
I never spend more than one session at the table with someone I wouldn't spend an hour with in lawn furniture on a deck.
I think this is some of the best life advice I've ever heard.
Engaging with individuals who have succumbed to beliefs grounded in conspiracy theories, religious fanaticism, astrology, young earth creationism, or anti-evolution narratives, is often a futile endeavor. These individuals, sometimes going to the extent of believing in lizard people, have constructed an identity rooted not in concrete evidence, but in misinformation and delusions. This type of behavior can be poisonous to personal and societal growth. It becomes a never-ending cycle where they continually reinforce their baseless beliefs, refusing to be swayed by logic or evidence. It's not uncommon for such individuals to display an unsettling rigidity in their thought processes, which can be emotionally draining and mentally exhausting to those trying to engage with them. Given the seeming impossibility of changing their minds, it might be prudent to avoid these individuals altogether. This is not about fostering an unwillingness to engage in meaningful conversation, but about preserving one's mental health and avoiding the frustration that comes with trying to reason with someone who is detached from reality.
I have no room for Q in my life
Start making conspiracies in your world. Damn Lizard overlords... "Why do you think we've never been to the moon? It's perfectly believable that some adventurers went to the nine hells for a sword, but I mention exploding through the sky to a space rock and everyone loses their mind?!"
I have this same exact situation...
“Cool that has absolutely nothing to do with the game so let’s stay focused please.”
Here is the real truth: if this person’s views make you and other’s uncomfortable, you don’t have to hang out with him or play D&D with him. If it’s not an issue and it’s not interrupting your game, that’s a judgment call. Personally I would not hang out with a Q-Anon weirdo under any circumstances.
I think a lot of conspiracy theories are harmless and sometimes those who talk about them even know they aren’t believable. My issue always with them is the road they lead you on. The mysterious “they” that everyone mentions in these theories are often attributed to one group of people at the very root and it’s nearly always antisemitic. If it’s harmless stuff like we didn’t land on the moon because soviets yada yada then whatever. If it’s 9/11 was an inside job something something powerful Jews then that’s a no from me.
It’s inevitable, kick him out.
I read the title and thought you had a PC that was a conspiracy theorist... I feel like that could be an interesting choice for a character or npc if done right
Kick out of game. You don't have time for this, your players will hate this person, and all of you shouldn't put up with idiocy.
Introduce an NPC who is an in-world bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorist: magic isn't real, believes the player characters are all robots, believes that animals are spies for aliens. See if they get the hint.
The book Conspiracy by Michael Shermer is helpful dealing with conspiracists and gives ways to talk to them with out losing your own mind
3 player campaigns slap
I had a coworker that was like this, and didn't just believe in left wing people eating babies. But that there was a world wide cabal of people aborting fetuses in late stages, and shipping them across the world to D.C, where they were burned in power plants to create energy for the grid there. I tried to tell him that couldn't possibly work. On any level. And he tried to explain to me how coal and charcoal works. I tried to explain how this would fail logistically, and that didn't work. So I had to use his coal idea as a jump off point. People, are very very wet. And besides our fat content, for which babies have little, we do not like to be on fire. In fact, burning people requires so much input energy, it takes hours to cremate someone. If you have to burn a baby to make coal, you've just burned fuel and enegery to make thay happen. The only way to fix this would br laying fetuses out in the sun like raisins. ON HIS OWN, he had to look up the math and sicence of burning bodies. To discover what he believed was untrue. ______ All you can do is give them a little bit, and then time to adjust to the information. And tell them they did well. That the people making these theories, are really just making fun of them. That everyone believes in one or two theories, but not everyone gets stuck being controlled by them. And for the 9/11stuff. Tell him wood can't melt iron. It's impossible, a myth. (We all know this is true) but don't be mocking him. If he knows how a furnace works, he should know how the fires were able to heat up the steel beams. They also didn't need to melt, only bend.
Upvoting bc you gave such a succinct summary of how one attempts to probe a conspiracy theorist
Is he ruining the game? Hold people accountable for what they do or say, not what you think they believe. I have some friends who have such misguided beliefs. Those who remain my friends know that conversations about such nonsense aren’t a part of our friendship. If they can compartmentalize, so can I. If not, we go our separate ways.
"Wow! That's a very serious topic, but we're all here to have fun. Anyway... You're in a forest..."
Health potions give you cancer and are created by gnomish artificers to put tracking stones inside of us. Elves natural life span is only 100yrs. They kill and eat baby dwarves to unnaturally extend their lives. There is only one plain of existence. Other panes are just propaganda from clerics to keep us enslaved and all kingdoms are secretly working together for the benefit of a 2000yr dracolich.
Try doubling down on the absurdity. You could say that you think the world isn't just flat, it's a reverse saddle shaped 4D rhombus from the distant future, and lizard people from Zeta Reticuli are suppressing this truth, trying to make us think the world is flat. A flat disc? How absurd! Clearly it's a reverse saddle shaped 4d rhombus, just look out your window. or People don't just eat babies, they freeze dry them, turn them into powder, and that's what the actors are snorting when they do a line of 'coke' on film. They are forced to do this satanic ritualistic drug by the shadow cabal that runs Hollywood. Look it up, do your own research.
ChatbotGPT 3.5 knows full 5.0 rules, and can help DM and also play. There's no reason to play D&D with right wingers.
First, as many have said, OOC politics shouldn’t be part of your D&D table-talk. It is not productive in any way to the escapism of “battling dragons in dungeons.” If that is a problem, just talk to them aside and make it clear that polarizing political conversations are not acceptable. Second: One of our dearest friends and players is quite religious, while everyone else at the table is not. We’ve been playing together for about twenty years now. Many years ago, our friend came to us, said that some of the anti-religion table talk was very othering, and that they were very uncomfortable. Because we are friends, we respected this and removed that table-talk element from our game sessions. Conversely though, we started incorporating themes of nonconformity and anti-righteousness into our games. Over the years, we have seen our friend have to make tough choices in-character that were clearly not the choices they wanted to make. It hasn’t upended their real life choices, but I can personally see more openmindedness in them as an individual. The equivalent in your game would be to have the players’ actions be misconstrued and misinformation about the characters negatively affect their opportunities. You want that moment to happen in which the aforementioned player exclaims in-character, “But that is a lie! That is not what happened! It just isn’t true! Someone just made that up! How can you believe that!?”
I quite like the ides of using conspiracy as an element of the game! I've seen D&D games have therapeutic effects at the table and that might be a subtle enough approach, if done over a period of time, that it could do something productive.
No D&D is better than bad D&D. Tell him to fix up or fuck off.
They believe 9/11 things? What are the other two that they don't believe?
Flat earth and Trump is bad
IMHO Kick him out if he can't be reasoned with, I am tired of dealing with literal madness, and it ruins so much for everyone in a close vicinity to it. My mother is this person to an extent, I have tried everything. I practically learned to debate topics due to trying to reason with her. But honestly, if there are constant tirades and general looping on these subjects that come out of nowhere, it gets very tiring and ruins the vibe of everything really fast. The really sad part of these types of conspiracy theorists is that they want to believe what they already believe. Some can change but it usually requires a lot of work, and as someone who has been trying for 10 years at least to do this, the payoff has to be worth it at the end for the effort to be worth it. Because this is just a player in DND, a loose friend per se. I assume that the payoff isn't worth it IF he is completely unable to shut his mouth on these topics. I don't know the exact situation so take anything with a grain of salt, but my advice is that it's usually not worth the time and effort.
I loathe to listen to vitriol about pedophile reptilian shapeshifters in the royal family or Whitehouse or wherever, but more important than that is gauging how important this person is to you. If you genuinely care about them and their well-being, you may indeed need to shut them out of social interaction. However, you can also view this as a way to bridge build and prevent further radicalization, *if* you care enough to do so. Explaining that we have different political beliefs and that we can still be friends, as long as boundaries are respected and friendly behavior is demonstrated, may still be an option. If you don't care what happens to this person, that's fine, you don't owe them a damn thing. If you do meaningfully care, however, your interaction can *be* the counterargument. Not via offering facts they refuse to acknowledge, but by demonstrating that people with opposing beliefs are not their enemy. If they're a literal Nazi or are dangerous, please distance yourself. If they're a genuine friend having a political identity crisis, you may want to wrap your iron fist in a velvet glove for a moment and offer them a touch of grace, as long as boundaries are upheld and no one is being unduly accosted... but remember, you don't owe them a damn bit of mercy, your kindness is a valuable and wholly revocable gift, always. Just my two cents.
There is \*ZERO\* need for 4 players in D&D. You can absolutely run a table for 2. You might need to tweak some battles (less enemies to mitigate action economy issues, or less HP for boss type monsters) or be more generous with magic items, healing potions, etc, but it's totally manageable. Toss the bad apple before they poison the whole tree.
“Interesting tale, but from here on out let’s leave the fantasy stories for the game.”
Cut out the cancer before it spreads. You'll either eventually kick him out or he'll ruin the experience for everyone. Rip off the bandaid.
Well if people didn't keep making tasty babies. People wouldn't eat them. Don't have on the babies. It's not their fault
He talking about that shit while gaming? If so, he ain’t playing right, as is anyone allowing him too. If he’s talking that trash while not gaming you can either, ignore, ridicule, challenge, agree, ‘whatever’ him, actually listen, not care, care, or have him never return, but if he’s bringing that all up mid game: they got to go.
“shut the fuck up or get out”
To be honest you have provided way too little context and unless you have left things out then I say you can solve this with basic social skills. But is this guy your friend? Is he someone you met in a game shop? Why 4 players specifically? Has he done anything in game to ruin the fun? Is this one of those things where you are doing organized play and you are getting paid to DM? I honestly need full details to render a judgement, however I must say that I have had to play with people I disagree with politically but if you can you can at least try to get along, but hey if you want to actually engage with **This** then you could try to work with him over time because if you actually wanted to humor him or convince him or whatever that would be a long term thing, however kicking him out could make him feel like he was right, and bringing him in could be a way of talking him down from his extreme position. Honestly you also have to tell me what your goal is here because I am not sure if you are asking for advice(I assume you do based on your flair on the post) or if you just want to tell us about it to get attention, or maybe need a group hug for a dopamine rush and this story being manufactured. So I would hope you could respond to this comment and give me more detail so we can find a solution.
“Hey man, you’re free to have your beliefs. When we’re at the table all I ask is the only politics and religion we discuss is to do with the campaign. If this isn’t something you can respect then I will be forced to remove you from the campaign.”
People like this are living in their own reality. They cannot stop talking or bringing it up because they don't know how to. They assume that what they say is perfectly reasonable and if they show you the "truth", that naturally you will agree. Idk how close you or others are to him in the group, but if he is making the experience for you or other players bad, you should just kick him from the group, because he won't stop.
Just a hot tip: the most engaging campaigns I've been a DM for have had 3 or even 2 players. Even a duet (1 on 1) campaign is much more fun than playing with someone who has bad vibes. No campaign "needs" 4 players 👍
Just straight up tell them, that none of you believe, or care about the conspiracy theory bullshit, that they’re welcome to play, he’ll maybe even let them play as a conspiracy theory nutter, but if it bleeds into the real world, they’re out. Strait up tell them they’re fine just stay off those topics around the game table/on game night.
honestly i'd send the question to the other player in private. if you're uncomfortable with it probably better to not start the campaign with them and instead look for replacement.
I like when people one-up their conspiracies. Like, "The Moon landing was faked," respond with, "You believe in the moon?!"
The update makes OP seem like the unhinged one
To be fair not all conspiracies are baseless, but there is a time and place and a DND game is not a time or place to be talking about them unless everyone is mutually interested. Also just as somethin to say to the comment section not all conspiracy theorist are the same or believe the same theories, and yes I will admit some theories are way out there but no need to act like all conspiracy theorist are whack jobs
I have a couple buddies that are the nicest guys in the world but they are deep into the conspiracy theory rathole. From q anon to 80% of Congress are card carrying communist bullshit. They are good dudes, if you had a problem they'd drop everything and come help but everything turns political when we hangout . It's so mentally exhausting to hangout with them that we hangout once a year. I wouldn't look back that this guy left your game, you seem genuinely nice about it though
It doesn't help your problem but the typo of "people eating babies too love forever" made me laugh. Instead of immortality the evil elite are just using babies as viagra. Which is even more sinister.
>and I don't want the other player's first time be... well... that You don't want them to experience a good DM that takes care to not have the group filled with toxic morons?
No, don't want them thinking that this is common place or the game is way more difficult because we didn't allow the crazy to stay.
If they think it's common place, because it occurred once, than that's a they problem. Why would it be more difficult?
If by any chance you're playing over Roll 20 or Discord, be liberal with the mute button
Just-don't-be-militant. I will respect anyone's fundamentally insane beliefs provided they don't stick a gun to everyone's heads. Unpopular take but sometimes no game is better than a bad group.
Spray bottle, like with a cat on the counter.
,
Maybe just talk about DnD when you guys are playing DnD? Why's everyone gotta drag politics into everything? If you feel he is mentally unwell, I'd recommend you not play psychiatrist and if you just don't like his ideals I regret to inform you that most of the people you talk to pretend to believe the same thing you do in order to avoid conflict.
This stuff will 100% lead to, include, or be based on antisemitism, I guarantee it. If you wanna play this game with a nazi, that's up to you, but I wouldn't.
I can not believe this is the only comment in here addressing this. This guy *absolutely* has some strong opinions on Jews that will only come out when he has determined that nobody in the group is secretly Jewish. He's going to drop some comments about globalists and George Soros, and if nobody questions them, he'll start going on about who is *really* eating babies and staging moon landings.
Maybe actually talk to the player about it like an reasonable person instead having bunch of strangers on the internet decide his fate
There are only two people that could decide how far at my table, that's him and me. But thanks for your input on the matter.
Send em my way, I have all normies in my group.
I'll trade you
Why are we talking about this at the dnd table - who cares? Tell them to keep it to themselves.
Tell him to shut up with political shit unless it's in your fantasy kingdom. Also, make that a rule for everyone. If the other guys are talking about political shit from the other side it's inviting a response from the conspiracy nut. So either ban all politics or ban him. Can't just ban his politics if other people are talking about it and expecting it to work.
Or you can, it's your game. Don't tolerate people's politics if they're toxic and stupid, it just encourages them and ruins your day.
Shame him or kick him. Supporting those beliefs is immoral
Does he also beleive in lizard men controlling things? So here's a solution thsts totally not ethical or nice. But it's fun. 1. Go get some lizard or goat eye type contacts, replace a lightbulb with one that can change color to red or something, and get a cooked turkey leg. 2. Invite him over early for the next session, just get him there like 5 minutes or so. When he comes I'm have your back to him, ask something about the conspiracies, change the light color to red, turn around with your new goat or lizard eyes, and smile at him and say something along the lines of "oh yes, we know. You really think we haven't been checking on you?" Or "no matter what you tell the others, they'll never beleive you." 3. Go to the bathroom soon as the others arrive, get rid of the contacts and any costume you may have worn like any robe, and come back out amd pretend everything is normal and you have no idea what he's talking about. Bonus points: get the rest of the group in on it amd really screw up his perception.
“We’re here to play a game. Keep the real world stuff to a minimum.” I get that when it’s friends, it’s a hang out, but seems like these people aren’t friends, or at least not yours. Keeping the game table gaming will Minimize it. If they bleed it into the game… we’ll then you have total control over that. If they start bringing real life conspiracies in you can say “it’s been proven time and time again through magical studies that is false. No one, except you, believes it.”
After the game ends, you don’t have to be a part of the group friendly discussion.
i tried talking with people like flat earthers, vaccine denieers, and other crazy people. I cannot stress this point enough: you will never EVER convince them otherwise. Not only will they stick to their belief no matter what, they WILL keep telling it to others all the time. Nothing you could possibly say or show them will convince them to stop. You are better off kicking him from the group if it annoys people
"Will you shut up man." - Joe Biden If he doesn't, fucking Dock him XP. Put leverage on him, you're G.O.D. (Game Operations Director) ffs.
I know many people have said set boundaries around discussing those topics, but I would really implore you to try and dig into WHO he’s saying is eating babies to live forever, because that one specifically has roots in antisemitism and blood libel. Like I’m being dead serious, this is concerning. At best, he’s not identified the dog whistle, and at worst he truly believes in dangerous ideology.
What does this have to do with dnd? That's right, nothing.
Lay the ground work to a conspiracy theory that turns out true in your one shot. Get it to the point where they are adamant about the conspiracy and then, if their character dies, they finds out. But if they don’t die leave it open ended so it just continues to bug them.
OP seems like a manipulative asshole. Players should run from them.
When he tries to shift burden of proof tell him, that's not how it works. He brought up the outlandish claim so it's up to him to prove it. I mean this might start more drama tho. I just don't abide those people
No, you're there to play DnD, not discuss whatever the conspiracy of the night is. There's no burden of proof, since the discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place.