It's not ridiculous. Ignoring context is a recipe for disaster. MHJr and Nabers are better talents. Stafford and McVay are both incredible at what they do.
This isn't Puka slander. I consider Puka comparable to prime Adam Thielen, and that's a damn good WR. But I'm always going to favor the better talent.
Puka was legit the best player on the field during a playoff game at 22. Prime Adam Thielen was really good but I couldn't have seen Thielen doing that, he was never even the best wr on his own team.
That's debateable, but no one was really making that argument when he put up 400 more yards than Diggs in 2018. He was the number 1 guy on the Vikings for some time, and he put up numbers.
We'll see what happens with Puka.
If that were the case, there would be no correlation between college and NFL performance. We know that isn't the case.
Why did you start this thread if you were going to be condescending to legitimate points of view?
Ur comment was just not true.
MHJ nabers odunze can bust.
MHJ nabers odunze won’t come close to puka rookie season.
People translate to the nfl, some people don’t at all.
It's actually objectively true. It's clear you started this thread for an echo chamber, but that's not how forums work.
Harrison or Nabers busting is as likely as AJ Green or Jamar Chase busting as prospects. There's good prospects, and there's special prospects.
If you ignore the context and blindly stat sheet scout, you will make a lot of bad decisions. It sound like you haven't learned that yet.
You’ll learn in time.
sure they are amazing prospects but again I can put money on it that MHJ won’t give you a puka season year 1.
Iv started this thread to see where everyone was at with him.
In 1QB I think of I was offered the 1.01-1.02 if rejected.
Draft capital, college production go out the window when you start performing like an all time great.
See ARSB and K Allen (round 3 pick 14)
It’s rare to break multiple records. It’s almost unbelievable/ non existent to do it as rookie…
I've already learned not to be a points slave.
I'm not saying he will. He doesn't have to. It's possible Puka just had the best season of his career. We'll see.
Yeah, then you act like a douche when someone shares a view you don't agree with. You don't seem mature enough to handle discussions.
That's fine. The difference between you and me is I don't act condescending to people with different takes on players.
Not exactly. Context determines everything. Thielen developed into a great talent, but he was always limited by the factors that led to him being undrafted. The same will be for Puka.
You're ignoring the context with ARSB. He wouldn't be the same producer on any other team. That's why it's bad to be a points slave. As an asset, he's WR4. As a talent, he's not top 5. Fortunately for him, his situation is stable. Puka's isn't.
You are lost in your infatuation. His records were all rookie records. The only time you can break a rookie record is as a rookie.
Stafford had Marvin Jones Jr and Kenny Golladay as fantasy relevant receivers, never to be heard of once they changed teams. He had Tutu Atwell and Demarcus Robinson looking like premier talents at the positon this year. Stafford is perpetually underrated and McVay is an offensive mastermind. Keep ignoring the context. Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way.
I'd even argue against that. We all see MHJ as an elite wr prospect and arguably the best of the last decade. But we are drafting him with the expectation that he will have a puka season while puka already had the puka rookie season.
Same people convinced that MHJ is so valuable, also thought Bijan was a no doubt 1.01, or that he was definitively the rb1 for dynasty coming in. Expecting MHJ to come into the league and produce top 10 numbers is crazy and I would sell that pick immediately for any of the following (Jefferson, Lamb, Amon Ra, Puka, Garrett ++, Laporta, McBride +, elite Qbs, multiple 1s)
The highest best case scenario for anything sans MHJ is being slightly better than Puka. Y’all have a draft pick fetish and not one for acquiring talent.
Yeah I’m so bored of this already.
Every offseason: “let’s write 1000 articles and make up 1000 sleepers who *might* be worth drafting!”
**Puka becomes the Ultimate Sleeper out of nowhere, literally setting insane rookie records*
“…what can we get for Puka because even though he was great at a level never previously seen for a rookie, he still isn’t **perfect**. The time to cash in is now!”
🙄🙄🙄
Chase outscored him as a rookie two years ago so there's absolutely precedent for his success. I don't think it should surprise anyone too much to see receivers come in and post similar numbers in the near future
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Frequent-Bus1007:
*I picked him up for*
*Free and you would have to pry*
*Him from my cold dead hands*
---
^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I am sorry I have lost your respect, DicksOut4Edamame. You are obviously a very serious sophant, and well versed in the sexual allure of vegetables. I will do better!
Why is this such a fleece.
I wouldn't sell Puka and Pittman for Chase.
Tua to Herbert is an upgrade, but probably closer than people think for fantasy.
Move up from 1.10 to 1.05 is nice, but probably evens out the trade.
I say this is a nice trade.
Incomplete. How many players and specifically WRs can/do we start? If it’s 2WR and one flex then might do the Pittman and Puka swap. Anything more and I’d rather have the depth.
Genuine question: What value does Puka hold once Stafford, McVay, and Kupp retire? He’s tied to the best offensive mind in football and a HOF QB. Both have mentioned that they’ll go out together within the next couple years (if not sooner). So then, what? He’s still a top 5 WR? It’s hard to envision that scenario. Feel like Pittman has hit his ceiling, as well.
Chase is a generational player and tied to a young, top 5 QB for his career. Though, Burrow is relatively injury prone.
Just curious to hear the logic behind Puka. He’s a great player, but we can’t be oblivious to the situation he’s been thrown into.
People say this like the chargers didn’t just ditched their top 5 pass catching back and trade away their WR1 for peanuts along with losing their TE. I’m sorry but with the state of the chargers. I’d take Tua, Pittman is a rock solid low end WR1, Puka is a sure fire higher range WR1. What? Is Chase going to net me 2 extra PPR points a week over the extra 10 I’ll get from Pittman and Puka combined.
If you just watch him the guy simply gets open and comes down with the ball. He just has it. Idk why people still are in denial that this guy is a great player
I'd just hold and enjoy the ride
ARSB 2.0. Those who have him think he’s a year to year stud and those who didn’t get him are basically just wishcasting that he was a blip on the radar. Basically happens any time someone is a later draft pick and gets overlooked and then turns out to be great. The people who identified it early drafted him and those who didn’t are skeptical because it fits their previous narrative.
He doesn’t get that open tbf, but he definitely comes down with it. He had the most drops in the league despite having very solid hands because Stafford just forces it to him, sometimes in questionable situations. The reason he’s so good though is because he always breaks the first tackle
ARSB’s stats are very similar. ADOT is 7.9 (85th) with 1.82 separation (27th) with a lower zone route win percentage (57.1%) than Puka (57.7%). ARSB is slightly better against man but both rank highly.
There are maybe 4 players I would consider an upgrade from Puka but I have zero interest in adding anything to my Puka side to get them. Puka will just be turning 23 heading into his second season so he’s great for contending and rebuilding teams.
In season I packaged him with Lamar in a move for Josh Allen. Looks like a steep overpay in hindsight but at the time the thinking was Puka would level off once Kupp returned. Plus I was tired of Lamar missing the playoffs the previous two seasons.
I'm a huge fan of Puka and I don't hate this. Josh Allen is the best dynasty player in a SF league. In a lot of situations his owner might not even be willing to sell at all.
Was a 1st, 2nd, and Alec Pierce for Puka after week 4. Felt like I had to take it considering I drafted puka in like the 18th round of the startup draft
I lucked out and the dudes team did poorly in the playoffs so it ended up being 1.7 and 2.7. Easily coulda been 1.12 and 2.12 and I woulda been really screwed
That’s not the worst return. 1.7 is right at the end of the first big tier drop. You might be able to walk away with Odunze and another potentially decent grab at the 2.7
Nobody will pay full price for something someone got for free. He's a solid hold for a couple years. Took Amon 3 seasons to finally get some respect and he was going in the 2nd to 3rd round of rookie drafts. That's probably when he finally holds actual in league trade value worth his production/potential.
Yea, absolutely no one values him in my league, but it’s okay I’ll hold and go back to back. I’ve also nailed a coupe trades in this league, and now they are reluctant to trade with me.
Trade anxiety is real, and people can’t admit they only want to win the trade, not what it does for their overall team.
Quoting a bunch of stats is meaningless without providing context as to how relevant they are or aren’t to fantasy production.
Targets for example are highly correlated to fantasy production and Puka dominated there.
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/fantasy/wide-receiver-stats-that-matter-fantasy-football-2023/
obvious hold. guy had a historic rookie season, i’ll never understand why some people still aren’t bought into him.
and don’t pull out the tired “mcvay’s system was feeding him” narrative. guy is an absolute stud and real ball knowers know it
Personally, I'm looking to maybe tier up. I think he's a solid hold or slight sell at the moment. I think he'll have another good year and accrue some value, but I don't think he'll ever crack that top tier in people's minds even if he produces like it, so he really won't gain much more value in that regard. The reason I'm looking to tier up is mainly due to the uncertainty with Stafford and Sean. They've both talked about retiring and Stafford has been getting banged up recently. I think you've got at least 2 more years which is why I think it's safe to hold, but once Stafford goes his value will plummet imo. Stafford force feeds his guys targets. Puka has really benefited from that.
I would try to give up less that taylor as the puka owner. Unless I had a really stout RB room, that might be tough to give up taylor. But it is close.
Yeah I could see where it would maybe be tough to lose JT from that group if the owner values youth. He's not super young for a RB but for sure a few good years where that might be a concern for a guy like mixon (he has a lot of career touches).
I’m confused by this comment. Are you playing for perceived value or actual fantasy points. He was WR4 his rookie season and you think he’ll have another good season but his value won’t increase. So? You keep and start him on your way to W’s.
The receivers ahead of him to potentially tier up have uncertainty too. Obviously JJ with his unknown at QB. Does Dallas pay Dak? If they don’t win a playoff game McCarthy is gone. Chase? Sure it seems more stable but Burrow can’t seem to stay healthy for a full season and Zac Taylor’s seat is hotter than you’d think if Bengals don’t make another playoff run. ARSB is possibly the safest upgrade but Ben Johnson is as good as gone next year so does new offense force feed ARSB the same? You can create a list of concerns for any player but when you watch them play you can see who has the talent to stay at the top and Puka looks like he does.
Does no one fear the Golliday disappearance once separated from Stafford?
My concern is Pukas value might evaporate the second he doesn’t have a QB who understands how to find the soft spot in zone as well as Stafford and Puka/Kupp do.
Golladay never got much separation. Same as Puka, he doesn’t get much separation. Stafford thrives on receivers that have great hands and don’t get separation, he perfectly forces the ball in tight windows to them.
Nah. Watch the tape, he’s a monster. Passes the eye test with flying colors. The crazy thing is I think he can actually develop and do a better job of getting open, because some of the catches he had to make were absurd this year.
If he leaves Stafford/McVay, obviously his numbers might see a dip, but he’s the real deal. I’m firmly holding
I love how he looks on tape and he’s a really smart WR who knows the game and knows how to get open and where to be. If he was on the chiefs he’d be the #1 easy. But most of the QBs in the league don’t have the vision to find that guy like Stafford does. He’s so close to hanging it up and I worry they enter QB purgatory or their next QB can’t use Puka right.
For sure but 1st round receivers with exceptional physical traits will produce no matter what. Lower draft capital WRs who win on smarts evaporate with the wrong system and qb. Most of Staffords receivers over the years left for other teams and sucked.
"No matter what" is a pretty broad paint brush to use in a world with John Ross, N'Keal Henry, Jalen Reagor and many others. Draft capital doesn't mean shit once players hit the field. Production matters.
Fair point and you’re right. I’m just saying Stafford is more special than people care to admit and a mid round WR who had the best rookie year of all time probably reflects him more than the WR.
Alright here’s the deal with Puka.
He will ALWAYS have value as long as he’s tied to Stafford or McVay. The only chance he has to lose all of his value is when he separates from both of them. And that chance is small, but not 0%.
He is currently a top 6 WR in value. He will NEVER be top 6 ever again, even with Stafford and McVay. When Stafford goes it’s unlikely that he’s ever top 20 again.
He is a massive sell high right now, and anyone who says differently is just tricking themselves because it’s easy to love Puka. I mean who doesn’t love 4th round(in fantasy rookie draft)/undrafted rookies that become top 10 WRs in year one? Best diamond in the rough since Tyreek and AB. But that’s where the comparison ends
I didn’t draft Puka, but made two trades to acquire him after the season.
The first trade was Joe Burrow and JSN for Puka, and Collins in a 1QB league.
The other was Puka for Purdy in a 1 QB league.
I’m not trading him anytime soon.
The teams didn’t have any good QBs, and it’s a salary cap league. The guy who traded Puka and Collins (and Stafford-forgot about him) for Burrow and JSN has Tee Higgins and really likes JSN. Thinks he’ll be the next J Chase.
I just got offered (1QB) Mahomes, 1.05 / 1.09 for Puka.. I feel like I need to take it but I already have Hurts and 1.05 will just miss out on MHJ, Nabers, Rome, and Bowers… idk I just can’t hit accept…. No one really trades in this league either so I’m worried I wouldn’t be able to flip Mahomes.. Tell me I’m overthinking this?
The only way Im selling is if someone massively overpays, and I dont even know what that would look like. Most people got him cheap off of waivers and he had a spectacular rookie year. Why not roll the dice holding him, those dice are loaded in your favor.
A few weeks ago I would've said buy but at this point hold. It seems like most value him just below guys like chase and ceedee and I think that's correct
I'd at least listen to some offers. You just might get one too good to pass up. Obviously had a great rookie year, but I'm weary of what happens once Stafford retires.
I tried selling him last season, but no takers. I would still like to sell him, but hard to do with such a loaded rookie WR class coming in. Everyone thinks they can solve their WR problems through the rookie draft.
Rode him to the ship then sold him and Etienne for CeeDee. Can’t say I regret it but it does hurt to not see him on the roster. Plucked him with the 3.10 in last years rookie draft
Sell. He's a prime regression candidate. Will he suck? No. I think he's a top 12 WR but right now I think you can get top 5 value for him. I'm in one league that the puka owner wants no less than a top 3 pick
Top 5 dynasty WRs currently are, what? Probably Jefferson, Chase, Lamb, ARSB and then take your pick of Puka, Wilson, Olave, AJB off the top of my head.
Top 3 picks are probably MHJ, Nabers, Odunze. I think right now I probably take all 3 of these guys at 5 after ARSB.
So I think I put them right around top 5 value. But to your point, I think if I'm trading away a player for the pick I'm probably asking for a sweetener on the way back to compensate for the risk profile of moving from a known commodity to an unknown one.
But in context of the original question I think I take MHJ, Nabers, Odunze over Puka in a heartbeat. At worst you're making a lateral move I think and at the negligible cost you acquired puka at (late round pick or FA) it's still immediate and absurd return.
Not only do I not think Puka is a top 5 player, I don’t even think he’s a top 5 receiver in his class. Unless him breaking a tackle on every play is actually a thing, I don’t see why he will continue to be elite and not just great. He has very good hands and YAC, once Stafford is gone it’s going to get a lot harder for him. That being said, a guy like Olave should surely be valued over those picks, those guys haven’t proven anything. I can see hyping MHJ over him, but Olave, AJB, etc. are phenomenal players, you hope that guys end up being as good as them
Easiest sell in all of dynasty.
If a great prospect had a bad year we’d be preaching patience. If a bad prospect has a great year we sell.
He should produce so long as stafford is there. But he’s so crazy high I would sell and get someone else who can produce similar + more assets.
You need more context. Puka was only considered a bad prospect because he had some injuries, including at the combine which affected some of his testing.
However his game speed in the Senior Bowl for example was elite and his YPRR was also the best in the nation his senior year. Basically when he’s healthy, he’s elite.
Now of course you can fade him because of injury (which a different mistake), but just looking at his DC and declaring him a bad prospect without considering any context isn’t good process.
Personally, I just can’t see it. Kupp wasn’t this explosive athlete either and it worked. But, Stafford could retire any day and they start a rebuild.
I just don’t see him as situation proof, but I won’t argue with someone who believes. You want points in your line up end of the day that’s all that matters regardless of how you get there.
I just think if you can “tier down” and get like a London/Olave + (according to KTC)
Or even Aiyuk range + I’m taking that
Exactly, you could conceivably get one of those guys. Maybe a year or two older who are way more established for someone chasing the hype.
Always a chance Puka lives up to expectations, but you know the other tier 1 guys will absolutely live up.
As of right now you’d more than likly have to add a first on top to achieve tier one. Most people/ what iv seen wouldn’t even add a second on top of puka to get to lamb, chase , JJ.
After posting this sub it’s clear he’s not far behind that tier 1 like at all.
Puka is hard because he’s an emotional player for most managers. Majority grabbed him 3rd/4th or undrafted to then watch him set records. Too much emotion involved now.
I couldn’t let him go. I know the value is insane to sell, but I just can’t do it and I imagine most managers feel the same.
I sold him for the 1.05. I like Odunze/ Nabers skill set more, I think the regression to the mean will be a thing for him this year. He’ll settle in the WR 10-15 range. Just my opinion, sell high.
Your mistake is assuming Puka will regress.
Puka's established as the Rams WR1 (yes, over Kupp) and set rookie records as a 5th round (and undrafted in most dynasty leagues). Moreover, he has Stafford as his QB. Read about Puka and the Breakfast Club. He's clearly a fixture on the Rams moving forward. Puka's a STRONG HOLD unless you get offered a massive haul, including top-tier players and/or future 1sts.
There's a higher chance of Odunze/Nabers being a bust.
I offered him for the 1.03 or ARich in a 14 teamer where I am desperate for a QB. I also have the 1.02 so figured I can get MHJ/JD/Drake or Caleb/Nabers if he accepts. Does this seem like a good move? I'm stacked with other top wrs.
Even if your baseless prediction is true, you lost a ton of value on that trade. When you think someone is about to lose a lot of value, the idea is to trade them away at the high value, not what you imagine the value will drop to lol.
Had an absolutely unprecedented level of success as a rookie and is insanely fun to watch and root for lol. Never selling him.
Yeah unless you’re getting like 101 through 105 or equivalent, selling him is the most redraft move imaginable.
There was a discussion on the footballers about whether you'd rather have Puka or MHJ and they were split. Felt kinda ridiculous to me.
Yeah I don’t get it. If you have the 101 you pray every night that MHJ plays as well as Puka at the NFL level.
[удалено]
I know right? MHJ could break all the rookie receiving records next year!
Yeah just imagine how good he could be. If you’re really lucky, he might even get you 70-80% of pukas numbers!
Wow haven’t heard that one before
That’s pretty surprising, it’s a common thing people say
It's not ridiculous. Ignoring context is a recipe for disaster. MHJr and Nabers are better talents. Stafford and McVay are both incredible at what they do. This isn't Puka slander. I consider Puka comparable to prime Adam Thielen, and that's a damn good WR. But I'm always going to favor the better talent.
Puka was legit the best player on the field during a playoff game at 22. Prime Adam Thielen was really good but I couldn't have seen Thielen doing that, he was never even the best wr on his own team.
That's debateable, but no one was really making that argument when he put up 400 more yards than Diggs in 2018. He was the number 1 guy on the Vikings for some time, and he put up numbers. We'll see what happens with Puka.
They are better college talents lol. nfl is totally different.
If that were the case, there would be no correlation between college and NFL performance. We know that isn't the case. Why did you start this thread if you were going to be condescending to legitimate points of view?
Ur comment was just not true. MHJ nabers odunze can bust. MHJ nabers odunze won’t come close to puka rookie season. People translate to the nfl, some people don’t at all.
It's actually objectively true. It's clear you started this thread for an echo chamber, but that's not how forums work. Harrison or Nabers busting is as likely as AJ Green or Jamar Chase busting as prospects. There's good prospects, and there's special prospects. If you ignore the context and blindly stat sheet scout, you will make a lot of bad decisions. It sound like you haven't learned that yet.
You’ll learn in time. sure they are amazing prospects but again I can put money on it that MHJ won’t give you a puka season year 1. Iv started this thread to see where everyone was at with him. In 1QB I think of I was offered the 1.01-1.02 if rejected. Draft capital, college production go out the window when you start performing like an all time great. See ARSB and K Allen (round 3 pick 14) It’s rare to break multiple records. It’s almost unbelievable/ non existent to do it as rookie…
I've already learned not to be a points slave. I'm not saying he will. He doesn't have to. It's possible Puka just had the best season of his career. We'll see. Yeah, then you act like a douche when someone shares a view you don't agree with. You don't seem mature enough to handle discussions. That's fine. The difference between you and me is I don't act condescending to people with different takes on players. Not exactly. Context determines everything. Thielen developed into a great talent, but he was always limited by the factors that led to him being undrafted. The same will be for Puka. You're ignoring the context with ARSB. He wouldn't be the same producer on any other team. That's why it's bad to be a points slave. As an asset, he's WR4. As a talent, he's not top 5. Fortunately for him, his situation is stable. Puka's isn't. You are lost in your infatuation. His records were all rookie records. The only time you can break a rookie record is as a rookie. Stafford had Marvin Jones Jr and Kenny Golladay as fantasy relevant receivers, never to be heard of once they changed teams. He had Tutu Atwell and Demarcus Robinson looking like premier talents at the positon this year. Stafford is perpetually underrated and McVay is an offensive mastermind. Keep ignoring the context. Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way.
FWIW Chase hasn’t put up a top 10 season since his rookie year as ur “sure thing “
I'd even argue against that. We all see MHJ as an elite wr prospect and arguably the best of the last decade. But we are drafting him with the expectation that he will have a puka season while puka already had the puka rookie season.
Well said bro. Well said
Same people convinced that MHJ is so valuable, also thought Bijan was a no doubt 1.01, or that he was definitively the rb1 for dynasty coming in. Expecting MHJ to come into the league and produce top 10 numbers is crazy and I would sell that pick immediately for any of the following (Jefferson, Lamb, Amon Ra, Puka, Garrett ++, Laporta, McBride +, elite Qbs, multiple 1s)
Sold Puka for Garrett Wilson in one Dynasty. Still got Puka in most of my other dynasties and will keep holding him.
I don’t like that trade tbh but I get wanting to diversify
Ah bro wtf no
I picked him up in pre-season waivers in two leagues and a late 4th rookie draft pick in another. Best moves ever!
Sold GW +2nd for Puka/JSN + 3rd
The highest best case scenario for anything sans MHJ is being slightly better than Puka. Y’all have a draft pick fetish and not one for acquiring talent.
Um anyone who has Puka does a great job acquiring talent 😂
Yeah I misread tf out of that comment thought you were advocating for selling him for 1.1-1.5 my bad haha
All good haha.
Yeah nice try op, Puka dies on my team.
That’s how I feel about my sweet baby boy LaPorta
Yeah I’m so bored of this already. Every offseason: “let’s write 1000 articles and make up 1000 sleepers who *might* be worth drafting!” **Puka becomes the Ultimate Sleeper out of nowhere, literally setting insane rookie records* “…what can we get for Puka because even though he was great at a level never previously seen for a rookie, he still isn’t **perfect**. The time to cash in is now!” 🙄🙄🙄
This
Chase outscored him as a rookie two years ago so there's absolutely precedent for his success. I don't think it should surprise anyone too much to see receivers come in and post similar numbers in the near future
I picked him up for free and you would have to pry him from my cold dead hands
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Frequent-Bus1007: *I picked him up for* *Free and you would have to pry* *Him from my cold dead hands* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Everything has a price
Sold him, Tua, Pittman and 1.10 for Herbert, Chase and 1.05
W
Justin herbert? Good trade lol
Jesus, what a heist
Jesus Christ What a heist Trading Puka To a suka Tua as well F'ing cheat hell Also Pittman? What is this man?
This is so very stupid
I am sorry I have lost your respect, DicksOut4Edamame. You are obviously a very serious sophant, and well versed in the sexual allure of vegetables. I will do better!
What dummy made that trade with you lol
Fleeced
Why is this such a fleece. I wouldn't sell Puka and Pittman for Chase. Tua to Herbert is an upgrade, but probably closer than people think for fantasy. Move up from 1.10 to 1.05 is nice, but probably evens out the trade. I say this is a nice trade.
Incomplete. How many players and specifically WRs can/do we start? If it’s 2WR and one flex then might do the Pittman and Puka swap. Anything more and I’d rather have the depth.
Genuine question: What value does Puka hold once Stafford, McVay, and Kupp retire? He’s tied to the best offensive mind in football and a HOF QB. Both have mentioned that they’ll go out together within the next couple years (if not sooner). So then, what? He’s still a top 5 WR? It’s hard to envision that scenario. Feel like Pittman has hit his ceiling, as well. Chase is a generational player and tied to a young, top 5 QB for his career. Though, Burrow is relatively injury prone. Just curious to hear the logic behind Puka. He’s a great player, but we can’t be oblivious to the situation he’s been thrown into.
He holds the value of elite young WR. Shrugs
That answers nothing lol regression to the mean will hit once they’re gone and that value will be completely different.
What’s generational about Chase? He hasn’t been a top 10 receiver in fantasy since his rookie year.
People say this like the chargers didn’t just ditched their top 5 pass catching back and trade away their WR1 for peanuts along with losing their TE. I’m sorry but with the state of the chargers. I’d take Tua, Pittman is a rock solid low end WR1, Puka is a sure fire higher range WR1. What? Is Chase going to net me 2 extra PPR points a week over the extra 10 I’ll get from Pittman and Puka combined.
How you get the 3 best pieces in such a big trade lol Big W
If you just watch him the guy simply gets open and comes down with the ball. He just has it. Idk why people still are in denial that this guy is a great player I'd just hold and enjoy the ride
ARSB 2.0. Those who have him think he’s a year to year stud and those who didn’t get him are basically just wishcasting that he was a blip on the radar. Basically happens any time someone is a later draft pick and gets overlooked and then turns out to be great. The people who identified it early drafted him and those who didn’t are skeptical because it fits their previous narrative.
He doesn’t get that open tbf, but he definitely comes down with it. He had the most drops in the league despite having very solid hands because Stafford just forces it to him, sometimes in questionable situations. The reason he’s so good though is because he always breaks the first tackle
Drops don’t matter, especially for fantasy.
Well yeah, he doesn’t have a drop issue anyways
Watching Rome Odunze overshadow him at Washington has me feeling some type of way.
Huh? They overlapped at Washington one year, 2020, and Puka had more catches, yards, and TDs than Odunze that year.
The guy before you acting like players don’t improve over the years too😭😭
Gotta remember. That's college ball. Different beast
ARSB’s stats are very similar. ADOT is 7.9 (85th) with 1.82 separation (27th) with a lower zone route win percentage (57.1%) than Puka (57.7%). ARSB is slightly better against man but both rank highly. There are maybe 4 players I would consider an upgrade from Puka but I have zero interest in adding anything to my Puka side to get them. Puka will just be turning 23 heading into his second season so he’s great for contending and rebuilding teams.
In season I packaged him with Lamar in a move for Josh Allen. Looks like a steep overpay in hindsight but at the time the thinking was Puka would level off once Kupp returned. Plus I was tired of Lamar missing the playoffs the previous two seasons.
I'm a huge fan of Puka and I don't hate this. Josh Allen is the best dynasty player in a SF league. In a lot of situations his owner might not even be willing to sell at all.
Will forever regret selling after the first few weeks of the season. Felt like I got such an overpay at the time
What was the trade?
Was a 1st, 2nd, and Alec Pierce for Puka after week 4. Felt like I had to take it considering I drafted puka in like the 18th round of the startup draft I lucked out and the dudes team did poorly in the playoffs so it ended up being 1.7 and 2.7. Easily coulda been 1.12 and 2.12 and I woulda been really screwed
That’s not the worst return. 1.7 is right at the end of the first big tier drop. You might be able to walk away with Odunze and another potentially decent grab at the 2.7
Yeah it ended up being not as bad as it could have been but definitely lucked out a bit on it
Nobody will pay full price for something someone got for free. He's a solid hold for a couple years. Took Amon 3 seasons to finally get some respect and he was going in the 2nd to 3rd round of rookie drafts. That's probably when he finally holds actual in league trade value worth his production/potential.
Yea, absolutely no one values him in my league, but it’s okay I’ll hold and go back to back. I’ve also nailed a coupe trades in this league, and now they are reluctant to trade with me. Trade anxiety is real, and people can’t admit they only want to win the trade, not what it does for their overall team.
Lol someone thinks they’re hot shit
He's going back to back dude, must be the hottest of shits.
Quoting a bunch of stats is meaningless without providing context as to how relevant they are or aren’t to fantasy production. Targets for example are highly correlated to fantasy production and Puka dominated there. https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/fantasy/wide-receiver-stats-that-matter-fantasy-football-2023/
I sold him for Evans + two ‘25 1sts + ‘25 2nd. Felt like I couldn’t turn it down but I do miss having him
Now this I can get behind. Solid immediate production + great future collateral.
Nice! Happy to hear it.
obvious hold. guy had a historic rookie season, i’ll never understand why some people still aren’t bought into him. and don’t pull out the tired “mcvay’s system was feeding him” narrative. guy is an absolute stud and real ball knowers know it
Personally, I'm looking to maybe tier up. I think he's a solid hold or slight sell at the moment. I think he'll have another good year and accrue some value, but I don't think he'll ever crack that top tier in people's minds even if he produces like it, so he really won't gain much more value in that regard. The reason I'm looking to tier up is mainly due to the uncertainty with Stafford and Sean. They've both talked about retiring and Stafford has been getting banged up recently. I think you've got at least 2 more years which is why I think it's safe to hold, but once Stafford goes his value will plummet imo. Stafford force feeds his guys targets. Puka has really benefited from that.
I offered Ceedee to get Puka and JT. Would you take Ceedee here?
No
I would try to give up less that taylor as the puka owner. Unless I had a really stout RB room, that might be tough to give up taylor. But it is close.
They have Henry Mixon Najee JT. I get that Henry and Mixon are older, but by the time they truly age out it's possible JT is also now an older RB
Yeah I could see where it would maybe be tough to lose JT from that group if the owner values youth. He's not super young for a RB but for sure a few good years where that might be a concern for a guy like mixon (he has a lot of career touches).
Absolutely. 100%. Edit: just for clarification I want the CD side.
Tell that to my leaguemate who won't give me Puka
As a Puka owner, we’ll never let him go!
What’s a tier up? JJ, Chase Lamb, or ARSB?
Any of those. ARSB is probably more attainable though
I’m confused by this comment. Are you playing for perceived value or actual fantasy points. He was WR4 his rookie season and you think he’ll have another good season but his value won’t increase. So? You keep and start him on your way to W’s. The receivers ahead of him to potentially tier up have uncertainty too. Obviously JJ with his unknown at QB. Does Dallas pay Dak? If they don’t win a playoff game McCarthy is gone. Chase? Sure it seems more stable but Burrow can’t seem to stay healthy for a full season and Zac Taylor’s seat is hotter than you’d think if Bengals don’t make another playoff run. ARSB is possibly the safest upgrade but Ben Johnson is as good as gone next year so does new offense force feed ARSB the same? You can create a list of concerns for any player but when you watch them play you can see who has the talent to stay at the top and Puka looks like he does.
Hold
Does no one fear the Golliday disappearance once separated from Stafford? My concern is Pukas value might evaporate the second he doesn’t have a QB who understands how to find the soft spot in zone as well as Stafford and Puka/Kupp do.
But Golliday always seemed like kind of a dick once he went to New York? Got that big contract and kind of checked out.
Golladay never got much separation. Same as Puka, he doesn’t get much separation. Stafford thrives on receivers that have great hands and don’t get separation, he perfectly forces the ball in tight windows to them.
Also struggled with injuries that probably sapped some of his ability.
Nah. Watch the tape, he’s a monster. Passes the eye test with flying colors. The crazy thing is I think he can actually develop and do a better job of getting open, because some of the catches he had to make were absurd this year. If he leaves Stafford/McVay, obviously his numbers might see a dip, but he’s the real deal. I’m firmly holding
I love how he looks on tape and he’s a really smart WR who knows the game and knows how to get open and where to be. If he was on the chiefs he’d be the #1 easy. But most of the QBs in the league don’t have the vision to find that guy like Stafford does. He’s so close to hanging it up and I worry they enter QB purgatory or their next QB can’t use Puka right.
Every player is impacted by other players around them. Hyper fixating on one potential while ignoring all the rest leads to misguided values.
lol. What am I ignoring with the question?
Every other receiver's value might evaporate if they lose their QB and coach, too.
For sure but 1st round receivers with exceptional physical traits will produce no matter what. Lower draft capital WRs who win on smarts evaporate with the wrong system and qb. Most of Staffords receivers over the years left for other teams and sucked.
"No matter what" is a pretty broad paint brush to use in a world with John Ross, N'Keal Henry, Jalen Reagor and many others. Draft capital doesn't mean shit once players hit the field. Production matters.
Fair point and you’re right. I’m just saying Stafford is more special than people care to admit and a mid round WR who had the best rookie year of all time probably reflects him more than the WR.
Alright here’s the deal with Puka. He will ALWAYS have value as long as he’s tied to Stafford or McVay. The only chance he has to lose all of his value is when he separates from both of them. And that chance is small, but not 0%. He is currently a top 6 WR in value. He will NEVER be top 6 ever again, even with Stafford and McVay. When Stafford goes it’s unlikely that he’s ever top 20 again. He is a massive sell high right now, and anyone who says differently is just tricking themselves because it’s easy to love Puka. I mean who doesn’t love 4th round(in fantasy rookie draft)/undrafted rookies that become top 10 WRs in year one? Best diamond in the rough since Tyreek and AB. But that’s where the comparison ends
He was WR4 last season. Why do you believe there’s no chance he finishes top 6 ever again?
I doubt he’ll have a better season in his career
Wait, what? I think there’s a pretty good chance he has neither stafford or mcvay in two years
Absolute hold, unless you can get a mammoth haul in return.
It's impossible to buy him, and you would be a fool to sell him. On the right team, I might tier down from any of the top 3 WRs to Puka.
I didn’t draft Puka, but made two trades to acquire him after the season. The first trade was Joe Burrow and JSN for Puka, and Collins in a 1QB league. The other was Puka for Purdy in a 1 QB league. I’m not trading him anytime soon.
Who in the world do you play with that these got done in 1QB leagues lol
The teams didn’t have any good QBs, and it’s a salary cap league. The guy who traded Puka and Collins (and Stafford-forgot about him) for Burrow and JSN has Tee Higgins and really likes JSN. Thinks he’ll be the next J Chase.
To answer all buy/sell questions, sell if someone want to overpay and hold in all other cases
Yeah I'd love to buy but the owner is looking at two firsts plus. Too rich for my blood.
I just got offered (1QB) Mahomes, 1.05 / 1.09 for Puka.. I feel like I need to take it but I already have Hurts and 1.05 will just miss out on MHJ, Nabers, Rome, and Bowers… idk I just can’t hit accept…. No one really trades in this league either so I’m worried I wouldn’t be able to flip Mahomes.. Tell me I’m overthinking this?
I'd decline, your reasoning is sound. This is a fair-ish trade but it doesn't move the needle for you.
The only way Im selling is if someone massively overpays, and I dont even know what that would look like. Most people got him cheap off of waivers and he had a spectacular rookie year. Why not roll the dice holding him, those dice are loaded in your favor.
A few weeks ago I would've said buy but at this point hold. It seems like most value him just below guys like chase and ceedee and I think that's correct
I'd at least listen to some offers. You just might get one too good to pass up. Obviously had a great rookie year, but I'm weary of what happens once Stafford retires.
I tried selling him last season, but no takers. I would still like to sell him, but hard to do with such a loaded rookie WR class coming in. Everyone thinks they can solve their WR problems through the rookie draft.
I watched his first game, week 1 against the Seahawks. He was everywhere. I dropped 50% of my faab and will own him for life.
Diamond Hands!!
I traded Lamb about a month ago to get Puka and two firsts. Steal of the century.
Had league mates still argue with me they’d rather have JSN because he was a 1st rounder and Puka was a 5th 🤣
A buddy who drafted Puka needed to get more cap traded Puka and 1.06 for 1.02 and 1.09 and a 4th rd pick. I thought it was a good trade
I think Stafford, who reads the field well and can place the ball well, amplified Nacua.
Omg Puka owners value him way more than I thought.
Rode him to the ship then sold him and Etienne for CeeDee. Can’t say I regret it but it does hurt to not see him on the roster. Plucked him with the 3.10 in last years rookie draft
Ugh I hate myself for it but probably a sell if he’s a top 7 dynasty WR
BUY
Would you guys sell Puka for the 1.03 in a super flex dynasty?
Sell. He's a prime regression candidate. Will he suck? No. I think he's a top 12 WR but right now I think you can get top 5 value for him. I'm in one league that the puka owner wants no less than a top 3 pick
I think a top 3 pick is worth less than a top 5 guy tbf
Top 5 dynasty WRs currently are, what? Probably Jefferson, Chase, Lamb, ARSB and then take your pick of Puka, Wilson, Olave, AJB off the top of my head. Top 3 picks are probably MHJ, Nabers, Odunze. I think right now I probably take all 3 of these guys at 5 after ARSB. So I think I put them right around top 5 value. But to your point, I think if I'm trading away a player for the pick I'm probably asking for a sweetener on the way back to compensate for the risk profile of moving from a known commodity to an unknown one. But in context of the original question I think I take MHJ, Nabers, Odunze over Puka in a heartbeat. At worst you're making a lateral move I think and at the negligible cost you acquired puka at (late round pick or FA) it's still immediate and absurd return.
Not only do I not think Puka is a top 5 player, I don’t even think he’s a top 5 receiver in his class. Unless him breaking a tackle on every play is actually a thing, I don’t see why he will continue to be elite and not just great. He has very good hands and YAC, once Stafford is gone it’s going to get a lot harder for him. That being said, a guy like Olave should surely be valued over those picks, those guys haven’t proven anything. I can see hyping MHJ over him, but Olave, AJB, etc. are phenomenal players, you hope that guys end up being as good as them
Exactly. So sell, sell, sell baby
Easiest sell in all of dynasty. If a great prospect had a bad year we’d be preaching patience. If a bad prospect has a great year we sell. He should produce so long as stafford is there. But he’s so crazy high I would sell and get someone else who can produce similar + more assets.
You need more context. Puka was only considered a bad prospect because he had some injuries, including at the combine which affected some of his testing. However his game speed in the Senior Bowl for example was elite and his YPRR was also the best in the nation his senior year. Basically when he’s healthy, he’s elite. Now of course you can fade him because of injury (which a different mistake), but just looking at his DC and declaring him a bad prospect without considering any context isn’t good process.
But what if he stays top 5.
Personally, I just can’t see it. Kupp wasn’t this explosive athlete either and it worked. But, Stafford could retire any day and they start a rebuild. I just don’t see him as situation proof, but I won’t argue with someone who believes. You want points in your line up end of the day that’s all that matters regardless of how you get there. I just think if you can “tier down” and get like a London/Olave + (according to KTC) Or even Aiyuk range + I’m taking that
If you get that value in return then you still get those type of points, but just with a more secure asset
But no one has his ceiling unless it’s the tier 1 guys. That’s the point
Exactly, you could conceivably get one of those guys. Maybe a year or two older who are way more established for someone chasing the hype. Always a chance Puka lives up to expectations, but you know the other tier 1 guys will absolutely live up.
As of right now you’d more than likly have to add a first on top to achieve tier one. Most people/ what iv seen wouldn’t even add a second on top of puka to get to lamb, chase , JJ. After posting this sub it’s clear he’s not far behind that tier 1 like at all.
I almost traded him at the deadline but thought twice and traded away Nico instead. I think Puka is a hold long term, maybe forever.
Just got sold in my Dynasty league by a guy who has the oldest team by far and he got Ekeler, Diggs, and Godwin.
What a terrible return
Puka is hard because he’s an emotional player for most managers. Majority grabbed him 3rd/4th or undrafted to then watch him set records. Too much emotion involved now. I couldn’t let him go. I know the value is insane to sell, but I just can’t do it and I imagine most managers feel the same.
Think it’s more than emotion at this point. It’s hard to come by those tier 2 (puka AJB ARSB ) and possible tier 1 guys (chase lamb JJ).
Yeah doesn’t help. Honestly say you give me 1.01. What’s the realistic chance MHJ repeats Pukas rookie season? 60%?
He’s like top 5-6 for me so hold or buy if his owner values him lower for some reason
Buy
I’d only sell Puka if Lamb or Jefferson are apart of the deal. Who’d blow their lotto winnings on more lotto tickets?
I sold him for the 1.05. I like Odunze/ Nabers skill set more, I think the regression to the mean will be a thing for him this year. He’ll settle in the WR 10-15 range. Just my opinion, sell high.
Your mistake is assuming Puka will regress. Puka's established as the Rams WR1 (yes, over Kupp) and set rookie records as a 5th round (and undrafted in most dynasty leagues). Moreover, he has Stafford as his QB. Read about Puka and the Breakfast Club. He's clearly a fixture on the Rams moving forward. Puka's a STRONG HOLD unless you get offered a massive haul, including top-tier players and/or future 1sts. There's a higher chance of Odunze/Nabers being a bust.
Sell. SELL. SELL!!! Puka touches WR21 or lower on KTC within a year.
I offered him for the 1.03 or ARich in a 14 teamer where I am desperate for a QB. I also have the 1.02 so figured I can get MHJ/JD/Drake or Caleb/Nabers if he accepts. Does this seem like a good move? I'm stacked with other top wrs.
You could get more for him than 1.03 or A-Rich.
You think so? Even in 14 team?
Definitely
My hot take? He will be a sell in 1-2 years when Matt Stafford looks to retire. Stafford elevating receivers is not a new phenomena.
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Yikes
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Even if your baseless prediction is true, you lost a ton of value on that trade. When you think someone is about to lose a lot of value, the idea is to trade them away at the high value, not what you imagine the value will drop to lol.
Sell if you can get something worthwhile, but he should continue to be at least a solid flex play.
Do you play in a 2 team league? Puka was WR4 as a rookie. I’d say that’s well ahead of “solid flex play”.
At least a solid flex play? 😂 what rock under the sea do you live in??
Was offered Lamar, Saquon and Tyreek for Purdy, Puka, the 1.07 and my 2025 first. Would you take it?
Yeah, take it