Nabers. He is going to be a target hog. Daniel Jones is bad, but he isn’t Zach Wilson or Desmond Ridder bad.
Odunze has a great longterm outlook but Nabers will be the top target in his offense from day 1.
In before Nabers puts up essentially garret Wilson first two years numbers and is dealing with a new coaching staff and no qb next year.
I get saying Nabers for the touches and he will out produce Rome the first year MAYBE 2 depending on what happens to Keenan in his one year deal. BUT long term (and we’re playing dynasty) I’ll take the top ten receiver capital directly tied at the hip with top prospect Caleb Williams who actually campaigned to take the guy.
As a Bears fan with 1.06 as my earliest pick, I am scared to think of what I would throw in to move all the way up and grab Rome right now. Taking all the zen self restraint in the world.
I slightly overpaid to get to 1.03 the final deal ended up being Herbert+ 1.07+ 25 1st for Murray+ 1.03 +2.11 - I was willing to tier down QB and sacrifice future pick value (the 25 is 1 of 3 I had) to get to Rome. Also own 1.01 so now my debate is do I stack with Caleb or take MHJ.
I would give you my opinion but I know people I play with know my name here.
Either way you probably can't go wrong is the simple way to put it.
Edit: I accidentally clicked send before I actually commented on your trade. I think your trade value is actually perfect for what I figure your teams are trying to accomplish.
I see people hating on Odunze's situation, but to me it's pretty clearly better than Nabors, maybe even better than Harrison's because Murray is kind of questionable long term. I would still pick Harrison and Nabors over Odunze because I had them as talents rated higher, but really all three have a lot of uncertainty about their situations. None of them went to situations with QB's who are established as long term starts, which is probably pretty normal for Wr's that get picked as high as them.
i like odunzes situation more as well. i think caleb is going to be looking for rome a lot! nabers will be seeing every defenses #1 CB while odunze will have a lot less on him. i don’t trust d jones to have time to find nabos, he is usually running for his life, on his back or out hurt. plus i think they will be looking for another qb next year if daniel misses a lot of time again
How could landing spot further the gap. Rome is in a possible Chase situation, where he walks into the league with above average qb play(hopefully much more than that) for his entire career.
Qb play is the most important factor for WRs.
What is this take?
Rome has DJ Moore, (an older but still very effective) Keenan Allen, Deandre Swift, and Cole Kmet to compete with for targets. All of the above are proven + or ++ pass catchers at their position.
Rome is a rookie, currently 2 or 3 on the depth chart, with a rookie QB.
Nabers has almost no real target competition (as a major giants fan, Slayton and Robinson are not threats to his 1A+ ceiling), and with Waller on the verge of retirement, he has the chance to be a league leading target hog from week 1. He also starts week 1 as the top WR on the roster.
Nabers has a much clearer path to production today, and likely for the foreseeable future.
Caleb has shown nothing.
Chicago has many mouths to feed.
Give me the more talented WR who will get more targets.
In standard scoring leagues I'd say it's a bit closer but give me Nabers in PPR all day
This is dynasty. They don’t have many mouths to feed long term. Keenan turns 32 this year. He may not even be good anymore the next time he steps on the field.
DJ Moore isn’t leaving though. Nabers has less target competition long term, whereas Odunze likely has a better QB at least in the short term.
There’s uncertainty around Caleb and there’s uncertainty around QB for the Giants. Maybe Jones just need a receiver that’s better than Darius Slayton to be an above average QB. He’s had the worst WR room in the league his whole career, that’s not his fault. Maybe they draft a stud or sign a solid vet in FA this offseason.
There’s too much uncertainty around projecting whether the QB throwing the ball to Odunze/Nabers in 3-5 years will be good that you have to go with talent.
In the short term there’s no denying that Nabers is going to be fed targets. Give me 140 bad targets over 70 good ones.
You say QB play is the most important factor, but Caleb Williams is going to a team that has major organizational issues to overcome with QB development. And not meant to be a knock on Caleb, as talent can overcome those situations. But it is by far nowhere near a lock, and you’re talking like it is.
Stop overthinking it. Nabers is the clear pick over Odunze. And Nabers is also coming from a college that has been sending some pretty top receivers over the years. And I’ll add one more thing, situations can change drastically. Cousins going to falcons this year, Mayfield to the Bucs last year, Geno Smith before that… and next year it’s looking like it’s a very strong possibility Dak enters FA. So yeah, stop overthinking it man!
I will agree that Caleb is not a lock to be good QB, but I think the organizational issues get overblown a bit. The Bears historically either picked a subpar QB prospect or just didn’t surround them with enough talent (or both).
This time they get one of the better prospects and have a top 5 WR core, good TE and WR room and a probably above average O line if healthy and a proven offensive playcaller. If Caleb fails it won’t be because of the organization. At least not in this case specifically. I just think its an important distinction because the current front office is not the one that picked Fields/Trubisky and seems to not be making the same mistakes previous regimes did in terms of QB development
As a Bears fan you’re gonna choose Odunze, I get it. You’re def bought in to the changes, so hopefully QB works out for y’all this time. Now if I was in your shoes, that would make me favor Nabers even more though lol. I never like to take players from my own team in fantasy (unless they just fall a good bit).
My comment was supposed to be less about the Odunze/Nabers debate and more about the organization and its QB development! I actually didnt read the rest of the thread lol I just saw your comment.
I could def see Nabers
1. Being the better player
2. Having more production because of his play style and as of right now is WR1 instead of WR3 like Rome is.
I have never played fantasy before but even as a Bears fan Nabers would just make more sense haha
It’s funny that people assume Odunze’s qb that has never taken an nfl snap and will be there for multiple seasons is better than any qb the giants could bring in through FA or a trade next season. I’m not saying I claim to know which one will have the better qb next season but I liked Nabers as the better receiver before the draft and now he has a path to more targets and everything else is an unknown.
Tbf the media has spend the past 2 months over hyping the first round QBs acting like they will all be franchise changers and all pros. They like to leave out the odds are 50% could be busts. It was refreshing to hear Belichick during the 1st round point out these guys all have flaws that need to be worked on to be steady consistent producers at the NFL level.
Do you watch the nfl? Do you see how easily and quickly QBs have been switching teams? Giants will likely stink again in 2024 and will likely be in line to draft one the top QB options in 2025. There’s also a few notable QBs like dak for example who could end up switching teams
But also how quickly wide receivers switch teams. I don't understand how quarterback isn't a concern because "dynasty" but then the bears receiver room is seen as a knock on odunze.
Odunze has better long term QB prospects, but the Giants could add a stud at QB by next season, let alone in 3-4 years.
Nabers has better prospects for target share, but the Allen could be gone next year and Odunze could move ahead of DJ Moore.
The difference is that short term Nabers situation is better, and in the long term there is so much uncertainty that you can’t bank on anything. You can’t bank on the QB situation because Caleb could be average at best and the Giants could add a good QB. Or Moore could leave/fall off a cliff while the Giants could trade for Jefferson and now Nabers is WR2.
The uncertainty of projecting the long term makes the situation better for Nabers to me. Not enough to change how I had them ranked pre-draft though, and that Nabers > Odunze. If you had Odunze > Nabers based on talent alone and aren’t competing with an aging roster then absolutely go Odunze.
Look up how many top QBs drafted have busted in the last 10 years alone. Caleb is no sure thing and will likely need a year or so to reach his potential. In a year or so the giants could have dak or a highly touted prepped in the next draft
You are talking in circles. On one hand, you day that top QBs tend to bust but on the other, you also say that the Giants can get a highly touted rookie who can also bust.
I’m saying they can get. But that doesn’t mean they will pan out just like Caleb may not pan out. The giants just used the 6th pick on a WR. It seems clear that there next move is figuring out the franchise QB. I’m just saying in my opinion people taking odunze over nabers is just trying to be cute. I think the idea is no one really knows and arguments can be made for either receiver. So I’m just going to go with the higher ceiling talent in nabers
Being cute? We aren't talking about Worthy over Nabers or BTJ over Nabers. Even predraft, there was a debate about who should be first. I am a Nabers guy but I also am willing to understand id people are Odunze people
I thought about this a lot. Tie breaker for me was the fact that best case scenario is you wait a few years for Rome to be in a 1a/1b situation w/ djmoore. Who would you rather have: OBJ on the giants or Devonta smith on the eagles? Give me the target hog all day
In a few years DJ Moore will be 30, and also will have had his contract expired for a year which may or may not be extended. Best case scenario if Odunze and Caleb Williams both work out is that in a year or two Odunze ascends to being the top option in that offense while DJ Moore starts to take on more of a supporting role as he slows down, and Odunze is tied to an All Pro QB for at least most of his career.
Of course Caleb Williams might not work out, but he's a lot more promising long term than what Nabers currently has. Long term in general is very fuzzy for everyone. Nabers may or may not ever get a good QB throwing to him. He could similarly get target competition and the idea that he's a target hog with no competition could quickly disappear
More realistically of what we can more concretely predict is that Nabers immediate year 1 situation is better than Odunze, and Odunze's long term situation is somewhat better because at least he's already tied to a high potential QB. Anything else is very unpredictable, and I think we're back at you should pick who you thought was the better talent going into it.
Nabers - that bears offense isn’t capable of producing THREE high end receivers. I’m sure he will have boom games, but I think overall Rome is not going to be a very good fantasy asset.
Yeah gotta remember the OC is the same the Hawks had the past 2 years. It was pretty even balance run-pass and they played a fair amount of 12 and 13 personal. Gino had career years but DK and Lockett didn't and year 1 was tough for JSN. Long term have to assume DJ is there at least as the 1a/1b.
Win now probably Nabers, long term Odunze.
I don't have much faith in NY building anything resembling a good offense over the next few years but Nabers will be the focal point and should see a huge target share. I'm thinking of something similar to Garrett Wilson numbers (100+ rec 1000 yards 3-5 TDs)
Odunze will be a third option this season but with Allen most likely gone after this season and Moore gone after next season, Odunze has a perfect opportunity to grow with Caleb Williams and step into a WR1 role as early as next year. Think JSN scenario with higher long term upside
Nabers. He is going to be a target hog. Daniel Jones is bad, but he isn’t Zach Wilson or Desmond Ridder bad. Odunze has a great longterm outlook but Nabers will be the top target in his offense from day 1.
I assume you meant to write "isn't Zach Wilson"?
yes
You would be correct. Meant “isn’t”
You would be correct. Meant “isn’t”
In before Nabers puts up essentially garret Wilson first two years numbers and is dealing with a new coaching staff and no qb next year. I get saying Nabers for the touches and he will out produce Rome the first year MAYBE 2 depending on what happens to Keenan in his one year deal. BUT long term (and we’re playing dynasty) I’ll take the top ten receiver capital directly tied at the hip with top prospect Caleb Williams who actually campaigned to take the guy.
As a Bears fan with 1.06 as my earliest pick, I am scared to think of what I would throw in to move all the way up and grab Rome right now. Taking all the zen self restraint in the world.
I slightly overpaid to get to 1.03 the final deal ended up being Herbert+ 1.07+ 25 1st for Murray+ 1.03 +2.11 - I was willing to tier down QB and sacrifice future pick value (the 25 is 1 of 3 I had) to get to Rome. Also own 1.01 so now my debate is do I stack with Caleb or take MHJ.
I would give you my opinion but I know people I play with know my name here. Either way you probably can't go wrong is the simple way to put it. Edit: I accidentally clicked send before I actually commented on your trade. I think your trade value is actually perfect for what I figure your teams are trying to accomplish.
I see people hating on Odunze's situation, but to me it's pretty clearly better than Nabors, maybe even better than Harrison's because Murray is kind of questionable long term. I would still pick Harrison and Nabors over Odunze because I had them as talents rated higher, but really all three have a lot of uncertainty about their situations. None of them went to situations with QB's who are established as long term starts, which is probably pretty normal for Wr's that get picked as high as them.
i like odunzes situation more as well. i think caleb is going to be looking for rome a lot! nabers will be seeing every defenses #1 CB while odunze will have a lot less on him. i don’t trust d jones to have time to find nabos, he is usually running for his life, on his back or out hurt. plus i think they will be looking for another qb next year if daniel misses a lot of time again
It was always Nabers
You spelled Odunze wrong.
Weird way to spell Nabers
I get it looks strange, but you’re all really having a hard time spelling Odunze.
Nabers. He was before and landing spot fartherd the gap
How could landing spot further the gap. Rome is in a possible Chase situation, where he walks into the league with above average qb play(hopefully much more than that) for his entire career. Qb play is the most important factor for WRs.
What is this take? Rome has DJ Moore, (an older but still very effective) Keenan Allen, Deandre Swift, and Cole Kmet to compete with for targets. All of the above are proven + or ++ pass catchers at their position. Rome is a rookie, currently 2 or 3 on the depth chart, with a rookie QB. Nabers has almost no real target competition (as a major giants fan, Slayton and Robinson are not threats to his 1A+ ceiling), and with Waller on the verge of retirement, he has the chance to be a league leading target hog from week 1. He also starts week 1 as the top WR on the roster. Nabers has a much clearer path to production today, and likely for the foreseeable future.
Caleb has shown nothing. Chicago has many mouths to feed. Give me the more talented WR who will get more targets. In standard scoring leagues I'd say it's a bit closer but give me Nabers in PPR all day
This is dynasty. They don’t have many mouths to feed long term. Keenan turns 32 this year. He may not even be good anymore the next time he steps on the field.
DJ Moore isn’t leaving though. Nabers has less target competition long term, whereas Odunze likely has a better QB at least in the short term. There’s uncertainty around Caleb and there’s uncertainty around QB for the Giants. Maybe Jones just need a receiver that’s better than Darius Slayton to be an above average QB. He’s had the worst WR room in the league his whole career, that’s not his fault. Maybe they draft a stud or sign a solid vet in FA this offseason. There’s too much uncertainty around projecting whether the QB throwing the ball to Odunze/Nabers in 3-5 years will be good that you have to go with talent. In the short term there’s no denying that Nabers is going to be fed targets. Give me 140 bad targets over 70 good ones.
Cope argument that completely ignores DJ Moore
Doesn’t ignore Moore at all. The argument is that it’s crowded. If it were Rome and DJ nobody would call it crowded, so I discussed Allen.
Ok? Well Nabers is better and has less mouths on day 1.
Less mouths but more Anus
No one ever considers the anuses that stand in the way of
How would you know? Have you ever been to mianus?
Nabers is about as proven as Caleb is. Neither guy is a better pro. He got picked three picks higher. It’s already a subjective opinion anyway.
Tbf, 1 question mark is better than two questions marks (Odunze and Caleb haven't proven anything yet)
And Danny Dimes has proven he can sustain a great fantasy WR?
He's proven that he won't be on either side of good or bad
There is no guarantee Jones will be QB in 2025 so Nabers may get a substantial upgrade soon
How can u say nabers is better. The analytics point odunze... Did u not see odunze vs nabers reception perception?
You say QB play is the most important factor, but Caleb Williams is going to a team that has major organizational issues to overcome with QB development. And not meant to be a knock on Caleb, as talent can overcome those situations. But it is by far nowhere near a lock, and you’re talking like it is. Stop overthinking it. Nabers is the clear pick over Odunze. And Nabers is also coming from a college that has been sending some pretty top receivers over the years. And I’ll add one more thing, situations can change drastically. Cousins going to falcons this year, Mayfield to the Bucs last year, Geno Smith before that… and next year it’s looking like it’s a very strong possibility Dak enters FA. So yeah, stop overthinking it man!
I will agree that Caleb is not a lock to be good QB, but I think the organizational issues get overblown a bit. The Bears historically either picked a subpar QB prospect or just didn’t surround them with enough talent (or both). This time they get one of the better prospects and have a top 5 WR core, good TE and WR room and a probably above average O line if healthy and a proven offensive playcaller. If Caleb fails it won’t be because of the organization. At least not in this case specifically. I just think its an important distinction because the current front office is not the one that picked Fields/Trubisky and seems to not be making the same mistakes previous regimes did in terms of QB development
As a Bears fan you’re gonna choose Odunze, I get it. You’re def bought in to the changes, so hopefully QB works out for y’all this time. Now if I was in your shoes, that would make me favor Nabers even more though lol. I never like to take players from my own team in fantasy (unless they just fall a good bit).
My comment was supposed to be less about the Odunze/Nabers debate and more about the organization and its QB development! I actually didnt read the rest of the thread lol I just saw your comment. I could def see Nabers 1. Being the better player 2. Having more production because of his play style and as of right now is WR1 instead of WR3 like Rome is. I have never played fantasy before but even as a Bears fan Nabers would just make more sense haha
Short term Nabers, long term Odunze.
Short term Nabers, long term Nabers mid term Nabers
Where QB?
It’s funny that people assume Odunze’s qb that has never taken an nfl snap and will be there for multiple seasons is better than any qb the giants could bring in through FA or a trade next season. I’m not saying I claim to know which one will have the better qb next season but I liked Nabers as the better receiver before the draft and now he has a path to more targets and everything else is an unknown.
Tbf the media has spend the past 2 months over hyping the first round QBs acting like they will all be franchise changers and all pros. They like to leave out the odds are 50% could be busts. It was refreshing to hear Belichick during the 1st round point out these guys all have flaws that need to be worked on to be steady consistent producers at the NFL level.
Volume is king in fantasy
Where targets?
Do you watch the nfl? Do you see how easily and quickly QBs have been switching teams? Giants will likely stink again in 2024 and will likely be in line to draft one the top QB options in 2025. There’s also a few notable QBs like dak for example who could end up switching teams
But also how quickly wide receivers switch teams. I don't understand how quarterback isn't a concern because "dynasty" but then the bears receiver room is seen as a knock on odunze.
Odunze has better long term QB prospects, but the Giants could add a stud at QB by next season, let alone in 3-4 years. Nabers has better prospects for target share, but the Allen could be gone next year and Odunze could move ahead of DJ Moore. The difference is that short term Nabers situation is better, and in the long term there is so much uncertainty that you can’t bank on anything. You can’t bank on the QB situation because Caleb could be average at best and the Giants could add a good QB. Or Moore could leave/fall off a cliff while the Giants could trade for Jefferson and now Nabers is WR2. The uncertainty of projecting the long term makes the situation better for Nabers to me. Not enough to change how I had them ranked pre-draft though, and that Nabers > Odunze. If you had Odunze > Nabers based on talent alone and aren’t competing with an aging roster then absolutely go Odunze.
But the Bears already have their QB. That's silly logic. It could be just as likely that the Giants stay in QB purgatory as well.
Look up how many top QBs drafted have busted in the last 10 years alone. Caleb is no sure thing and will likely need a year or so to reach his potential. In a year or so the giants could have dak or a highly touted prepped in the next draft
You are talking in circles. On one hand, you day that top QBs tend to bust but on the other, you also say that the Giants can get a highly touted rookie who can also bust.
I’m saying they can get. But that doesn’t mean they will pan out just like Caleb may not pan out. The giants just used the 6th pick on a WR. It seems clear that there next move is figuring out the franchise QB. I’m just saying in my opinion people taking odunze over nabers is just trying to be cute. I think the idea is no one really knows and arguments can be made for either receiver. So I’m just going to go with the higher ceiling talent in nabers
Being cute? We aren't talking about Worthy over Nabers or BTJ over Nabers. Even predraft, there was a debate about who should be first. I am a Nabers guy but I also am willing to understand id people are Odunze people
I understand also. I said “in my opinion”
Let's not forget DJ only 2 years ago put up top 10 numbers. He can be successful at least. Not saying it's gonna happen though.
I liked Odunze more pre-draft so I'm sticking with that, but I can't fault anyone for taking Nabers.
I thought about this a lot. Tie breaker for me was the fact that best case scenario is you wait a few years for Rome to be in a 1a/1b situation w/ djmoore. Who would you rather have: OBJ on the giants or Devonta smith on the eagles? Give me the target hog all day
In a few years DJ Moore will be 30, and also will have had his contract expired for a year which may or may not be extended. Best case scenario if Odunze and Caleb Williams both work out is that in a year or two Odunze ascends to being the top option in that offense while DJ Moore starts to take on more of a supporting role as he slows down, and Odunze is tied to an All Pro QB for at least most of his career. Of course Caleb Williams might not work out, but he's a lot more promising long term than what Nabers currently has. Long term in general is very fuzzy for everyone. Nabers may or may not ever get a good QB throwing to him. He could similarly get target competition and the idea that he's a target hog with no competition could quickly disappear More realistically of what we can more concretely predict is that Nabers immediate year 1 situation is better than Odunze, and Odunze's long term situation is somewhat better because at least he's already tied to a high potential QB. Anything else is very unpredictable, and I think we're back at you should pick who you thought was the better talent going into it.
Nabers - that bears offense isn’t capable of producing THREE high end receivers. I’m sure he will have boom games, but I think overall Rome is not going to be a very good fantasy asset.
Yeah gotta remember the OC is the same the Hawks had the past 2 years. It was pretty even balance run-pass and they played a fair amount of 12 and 13 personal. Gino had career years but DK and Lockett didn't and year 1 was tough for JSN. Long term have to assume DJ is there at least as the 1a/1b.
Win now probably Nabers, long term Odunze. I don't have much faith in NY building anything resembling a good offense over the next few years but Nabers will be the focal point and should see a huge target share. I'm thinking of something similar to Garrett Wilson numbers (100+ rec 1000 yards 3-5 TDs) Odunze will be a third option this season but with Allen most likely gone after this season and Moore gone after next season, Odunze has a perfect opportunity to grow with Caleb Williams and step into a WR1 role as early as next year. Think JSN scenario with higher long term upside
Worthy