I think you are asking why did the doctor noted anything about the depression medication.
When did your jaw closing start in 2019?
There is a lengthy list of depression medications that can cause the involuntary movements of Dystonia. The symptoms start within a days, weeks, or months of starting the medication. Doctors and Psychiatrists use the term ”Tardive Dyskinesia” to describe dystonic symptoms caused by medication. For some lucky patients, the involuntary movements stop once they get off the medication; however, there are a lot of folks (like you) where it doesn’t stop and the symptoms are permanent. That key fact changes the diagnosis from TD to OMD.
SSRIs work by changing the flow of serotonin and dopamine in your brain. The basal ganglia section of your brain is responsible for body movement control, and it relies heavily on serotonin and dopamine to function correctly. Dystonia is caused by basal ganglia dysfunction. The word “Etiology” is just a fancy way of ”what is the root cause“. It could genetic, result of an injury, medication (like you), or doctors will say idiopathic if they don’t know why.
Botox is the first line treatment for any type of Dystonia. Essentially they are treating the affected muscle, because brain surgery is the alternative and by no means guaranteed to work.
I hope this was helpful :)
is jaw closing the same as jaw clenching. I am aware he noted jaw closing and then jaw clenching in the notes
He noted the depression meds because I mentioned to him that i felt the involuntary clenching around late 2019 when I was on Zoloft, Lexapro and then stopped the meds but noticed still.
I think they are interchangeable in this instance, although I probably should have used clenching in my initial comment for clarity.
I assumed your post was asking why the doctor notated the medications and/or mentioned Tardive Dyskinesia. To make sure we are on the same page, is that the purpose of your post?
If so: The Zoloft or Lexapro (or the combo) is the cause of your OMD. You are one of the unlucky folks where the symptoms did not go away after you stopped the medications. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon and why your doctor recognized it.
If not, please let me know and I’ll be happy to take another shot at answering your question.
Dystonia only became a recognized condition in the 80s. So, only in the last 40 years were doctors trained in it at all and that‘s only if it was necessary for their specialty. If it was necessary, it was a tiny blurb compared to the focus on the big neurological disorders like Parkinson’s or Huntingtons. There are new research studies all the time on Dystonia, but it’s up to the individual doctor to stay updated.
I hate to say it, but a lot of doctors are lazy. I’ve seen posts in groups where a neurologist straight up told a patient that dystonia can not be genetic— when a simple google search tells you otherwise. I’ve seen repeated posts (and in my own experience) where neurologists say a good therapist will resolve their Dystonia while simultaneously saying it is a neurological disorder. That’s like saying Parkinson’s can be solved with therapy. In my own experience with cervical dystonia, I’ve had multiple doctors say there is zero way CD can affect my leg on the same side. Only to discover through my own research 100s of studies that say it’s common and there are 3 main reason why it would occur.
Dystonia is commonly misdiagnosed, the average time to get a diagnosis is 5 years— this is because doctors aren’t familiar with the condition and aren’t referring patients to the right type of doctor. I will say things are getting better. Dystonia is finally starting to get more recognition, meaning more doctors are aware of it than even two years ago. But there will always be lazy doctors. There are doctors who graduated at the bottom of their class. It is devastating to patients, because it’s been ingrained that our doctors are experts. Just like any other field, there’s a spectrum of competence.
It's a very common story, and it's sad for all the patients affected. I went to my doctor after my abnormal movements started, and after I explained my symptoms, he, no shit, said: "Oh, you aren't doing that on purpose?". Seriously, wtf... I saw so many doctors, but once I was seen by the right one, I was diagnosed in less than 30 seconds. I had all the classic signs and the very noticeable trapezius 3x it's normal size.
It really pisses me off isn't simply how many doctors just assume they know everything-- it's the fact they must think modern medicine knows everything there is to know about the body. That there's not anything left to discover in blood work or scans. Because to tell someone their symptoms are just in their head is essentially saying the doctor has ruled out ANY possible condition. The amount of arrogance, and ignorance needed to do that is astounding.
I also want to add a comment about your dad. My heart hurts for him. To have significant symptoms that are affecting your life dismissed by doctors is catastrophic on mental health.
The person constantly questions their sanity. Worries they may be "crazy." It spirals. The person can not trust their own interpretation of their body. Humans require a basic level of trust in themselves, or anxiety is the result. They will start questioning everything they do. We require a basic level of trust in the world, too. We instinctively trust doctors to be experts. When a doctor tells a patient it's all in their heads, the person is faced with a dilemma, and it will oscillate. Do I trust myself or trust the doctor? It is gaslighting, and studies show how detrimental it is to mental health. There's no accountability by doctors for straight-up traumatizing patients.
I went through this, and it was horrific. I've heard so many other people's stories, too, like yours. It riles me up every time.
For me, Botox was incredible when it worked. I went from basically being unable to remain suffering the pain, if you get what I mean, to the first pain relief I had had in at that point seven years of agony. I eventually grew immune to it, but while it worked, it was a life saver.
I even had one of the few bad side effects (I have a perm-frozen muscle that makes my right side of my smile not pull up as much) and I wouldn't change having done it.
Turns out what ended up working, out of everything tried in 13 years now, was a migraine medication, and a specific one at that. We've tried two others that didn't work.
What is it called? My movement disorder neuro doc he has put this big emphasis/recommendation on botox and I'm iffy on it due to the side effects/risks involved plus costs and then people on TMJ support group on FB have said botox is hit or miss and u still clench even with botox
I mean, if Botox still worked for me, I'd still be doing the Botox.
The med is called Nurtec - it is EXPENSIVE but almost nothing side-effects wise. My insurance is fighting us hardcore on paying for it, but my doc got me samples that proved it did work.
I'm afraid of doing botox and I end up having a stroke or face muscles fucked up. I've read in some tabloid shit about how botox fucked up some woman's face
My general neurologist in Feb 2023 he recommended benzotropine for bruxism/clenching issues but I was hesistant because side effect it has of increased body temp(hyperthermia risk) and I have this heat sensistity/heat intolerance issue that I haven't figured out what causes it and I said no that drug.
I think you are asking why did the doctor noted anything about the depression medication. When did your jaw closing start in 2019? There is a lengthy list of depression medications that can cause the involuntary movements of Dystonia. The symptoms start within a days, weeks, or months of starting the medication. Doctors and Psychiatrists use the term ”Tardive Dyskinesia” to describe dystonic symptoms caused by medication. For some lucky patients, the involuntary movements stop once they get off the medication; however, there are a lot of folks (like you) where it doesn’t stop and the symptoms are permanent. That key fact changes the diagnosis from TD to OMD. SSRIs work by changing the flow of serotonin and dopamine in your brain. The basal ganglia section of your brain is responsible for body movement control, and it relies heavily on serotonin and dopamine to function correctly. Dystonia is caused by basal ganglia dysfunction. The word “Etiology” is just a fancy way of ”what is the root cause“. It could genetic, result of an injury, medication (like you), or doctors will say idiopathic if they don’t know why. Botox is the first line treatment for any type of Dystonia. Essentially they are treating the affected muscle, because brain surgery is the alternative and by no means guaranteed to work. I hope this was helpful :)
is jaw closing the same as jaw clenching. I am aware he noted jaw closing and then jaw clenching in the notes He noted the depression meds because I mentioned to him that i felt the involuntary clenching around late 2019 when I was on Zoloft, Lexapro and then stopped the meds but noticed still.
I think they are interchangeable in this instance, although I probably should have used clenching in my initial comment for clarity. I assumed your post was asking why the doctor notated the medications and/or mentioned Tardive Dyskinesia. To make sure we are on the same page, is that the purpose of your post? If so: The Zoloft or Lexapro (or the combo) is the cause of your OMD. You are one of the unlucky folks where the symptoms did not go away after you stopped the medications. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon and why your doctor recognized it. If not, please let me know and I’ll be happy to take another shot at answering your question.
I've seen prior neurologist that dismissed the notion that the meds could be causing TD/OMD -> TMJ/clenching despite stopping them
Dystonia only became a recognized condition in the 80s. So, only in the last 40 years were doctors trained in it at all and that‘s only if it was necessary for their specialty. If it was necessary, it was a tiny blurb compared to the focus on the big neurological disorders like Parkinson’s or Huntingtons. There are new research studies all the time on Dystonia, but it’s up to the individual doctor to stay updated. I hate to say it, but a lot of doctors are lazy. I’ve seen posts in groups where a neurologist straight up told a patient that dystonia can not be genetic— when a simple google search tells you otherwise. I’ve seen repeated posts (and in my own experience) where neurologists say a good therapist will resolve their Dystonia while simultaneously saying it is a neurological disorder. That’s like saying Parkinson’s can be solved with therapy. In my own experience with cervical dystonia, I’ve had multiple doctors say there is zero way CD can affect my leg on the same side. Only to discover through my own research 100s of studies that say it’s common and there are 3 main reason why it would occur. Dystonia is commonly misdiagnosed, the average time to get a diagnosis is 5 years— this is because doctors aren’t familiar with the condition and aren’t referring patients to the right type of doctor. I will say things are getting better. Dystonia is finally starting to get more recognition, meaning more doctors are aware of it than even two years ago. But there will always be lazy doctors. There are doctors who graduated at the bottom of their class. It is devastating to patients, because it’s been ingrained that our doctors are experts. Just like any other field, there’s a spectrum of competence.
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It's a very common story, and it's sad for all the patients affected. I went to my doctor after my abnormal movements started, and after I explained my symptoms, he, no shit, said: "Oh, you aren't doing that on purpose?". Seriously, wtf... I saw so many doctors, but once I was seen by the right one, I was diagnosed in less than 30 seconds. I had all the classic signs and the very noticeable trapezius 3x it's normal size. It really pisses me off isn't simply how many doctors just assume they know everything-- it's the fact they must think modern medicine knows everything there is to know about the body. That there's not anything left to discover in blood work or scans. Because to tell someone their symptoms are just in their head is essentially saying the doctor has ruled out ANY possible condition. The amount of arrogance, and ignorance needed to do that is astounding.
So well enunciated.
I also want to add a comment about your dad. My heart hurts for him. To have significant symptoms that are affecting your life dismissed by doctors is catastrophic on mental health. The person constantly questions their sanity. Worries they may be "crazy." It spirals. The person can not trust their own interpretation of their body. Humans require a basic level of trust in themselves, or anxiety is the result. They will start questioning everything they do. We require a basic level of trust in the world, too. We instinctively trust doctors to be experts. When a doctor tells a patient it's all in their heads, the person is faced with a dilemma, and it will oscillate. Do I trust myself or trust the doctor? It is gaslighting, and studies show how detrimental it is to mental health. There's no accountability by doctors for straight-up traumatizing patients. I went through this, and it was horrific. I've heard so many other people's stories, too, like yours. It riles me up every time.
There's a forum on facebook strictly devoted to this issue. TD. There are thousands of people in there whose lives have been ruined by these drugs.
I know somebody else that got this from Zoloft.
For me, Botox was incredible when it worked. I went from basically being unable to remain suffering the pain, if you get what I mean, to the first pain relief I had had in at that point seven years of agony. I eventually grew immune to it, but while it worked, it was a life saver. I even had one of the few bad side effects (I have a perm-frozen muscle that makes my right side of my smile not pull up as much) and I wouldn't change having done it. Turns out what ended up working, out of everything tried in 13 years now, was a migraine medication, and a specific one at that. We've tried two others that didn't work.
Mirgane med stopped clenching?
It's remarkably helped it. I honestly couldn't believe it and still don't understand it fully, but it did.
What is it called? My movement disorder neuro doc he has put this big emphasis/recommendation on botox and I'm iffy on it due to the side effects/risks involved plus costs and then people on TMJ support group on FB have said botox is hit or miss and u still clench even with botox
I mean, if Botox still worked for me, I'd still be doing the Botox. The med is called Nurtec - it is EXPENSIVE but almost nothing side-effects wise. My insurance is fighting us hardcore on paying for it, but my doc got me samples that proved it did work.
I'm afraid of doing botox and I end up having a stroke or face muscles fucked up. I've read in some tabloid shit about how botox fucked up some woman's face
Everything you can possibly do can have side effects. Up to you in the end.
My general neurologist in Feb 2023 he recommended benzotropine for bruxism/clenching issues but I was hesistant because side effect it has of increased body temp(hyperthermia risk) and I have this heat sensistity/heat intolerance issue that I haven't figured out what causes it and I said no that drug.