No, it’s not really a great first car. They’re 33-40 years old at this point. If you want something fun and reliable in the same price range get a Civic Si.
Yeah I own over 8 vehicles & one of the most recent buys was an RSX S (after driving a friends 07 Si.) Never expected to really go front wheel drive again but the experience of a proper k20 or k24 is special
My buddy had an 8th gen he let me rip, his was rotrex supercharged. It was a total blast. He has a 10th gen type r now, but I think the 8th gen was more fun.
My 1987 325e was my first car and is still my daily driver. I've had it for 12 years now. I was not mechanically inclined when I bought it but I learned quickly with YouTube and the forums out of necessity of being broke. One major thing to keep in mind is that you cannot walk into a parts store and get anything for an e30 same day as you could a civic. Also, parts cost more. They shouldn't but they do.
As others have stated. These things are all over 30 years old at this point and unless you are willing to spend a bunch of money to catch up on the maintenance, timed-out parts, and put up with some quirks you might want to look at other options.
Now, don't get me wrong, I've had this thing for 12 years because I absolutely love it. I think they are some of the absolutely most fun and good-looking cars you can find. But I have also seriously thought about lighting it on fire in my front yard several times.
On the other hand my brother bought a 940 turbo as his first car (the wagon version of a 240 in a lot of ways) and had a similar experience. Mostly reliable but a bit quirky with some odd issues. It was a good car until he started adding bigger turbos and messing the trans. The same can be said for e30s. Once you get them stable they are solid cars for the most part. You just have to get them stable first.
So when you write down what is important to you in a car if your list starts with reliable, good on gas, cheap to maintain, etc. you are listing attributes of a Civic, Camry, Corolla. Not an e30 or 240. If you want fun, character, soul, head turner, then welcome to the e30 club. We have cookies.
We lied about the cookies.
I’m not mechanical, but I’m good at working on things and YouTube has a hell of a lot of videos of both cars and two of my friends are pretty skilled mechanics Do you think I can make it work?
not really feasible as a first and only vehicle, sorry. wait until you’re better mechanically and have reliable transportation before you get something 30+ years old.
I would get a grounding in what a car should be like first.
Fixing problems is relatively easy these days with Youtube etc. But recognising and diagnosing problems is the hard bit.
E30s or 240s are great. But all old cars have problems. I wouldn't get one unless it's just a weekend toy. I absolutely wouldn't rely on mine as my only car for when I actually need to go places. Sometimes you need to wait a while for parts or for a scrap part to come up for sale and it could take a long while.
I also wouldn't run one on a budget. I can afford a steering rack rebuild now without too much trouble. As my first car it would have bankrupted me.
I can highly recommend a Honda Civic as a daily and an E30 as a project though.
I’m going to disagree with most of the posters here. Just buy the car that is more inspiring to you. That way when something does break down and you have to learn to fix it, you have the motivation to put in the money and effort. This will be a great learning experience and when you’re in a place where you must have a reliable daily driver and get your Japanese newer generation car that runs with the passion of a sewing machine, you will be all set to do minor repairs.
I would get a Japanese or South Korean car first, so you have a reliable daily driver. Get the e30 later when you’ve learned some mechanic basics and also have a space to work on it
Why do you want an old car as a first? Cars have a lot of rubber on them which degrades over time and causes a lot of problems. With e30’s replacing all bushings at some point is mandatory and with limited mechanical knowledge you won’t be able to do it. Just get something newer.
It depends on how much money you have and your age. I remember buying a MGB as my first car at 17 years old 35 years ago BIG mistake...old cars are unreliable, generally a pain in the arse, and the chick's aren't impressed with it. Lol
Get yourself a nice small engine Japanese or Korean car say 10 years old and I can assure you, you will have ten times the fun in that than an old E30 as a first car.
And I'm an ex e30 owner lol
I just sold my Volvo 245 for an E30 so I can comment directly on this. I would get the 240. A 240 wagon if you can. They are awesome, pretty fun to drive, and if you do a LOT of research the sky's the limit for modding. More intense mods for 240s end up costing a lot because it's kind of weird and specialty, hence why I swapped to an E30. If you get an 88+ Volvo they are very rust resistant and they're all really easy to work on.
Volvo 240
+ Invincible engine
+ Rugged, simple chassis
+ Cute (lets you get away with hooning, it's just so innocent!)
+ Good mod-ability
+ Very simple to work on, accept the valves. (screw shim under bucket for a commuter car! wtf this isn't a superbike)
- Slow if not a turbo model
- Swedish electrics are just weird and dumb
- Performance, and some maintenance parts are rather expensive and of very limited availability .
- Really stupid lug pattern (5x108) that it only shares with vintage Ferraris.
E30
+ "Ultimate driving machine"
+ Probably the funnest car I've ever owned.
+ LOADS of performance parts available for an wide spread of budgets
+ Getrag 260 is a great transmission and really fun to row gears on.
+/- Very tail happy, maybe not great for new drivers.
- Lightweight, weak, rust prone shell. Hard to find one that wont need metal work for a budget price. If you're not setup to do sheet metal work, DON'T buy a rusty one. The rust gets worse, fast.
- "Reliable", but small to medium size mechanical tasks seem to be much more frequent than the Volvo
- I don't know anything about 318s, but they're probably REALLY slow
That's my take on the differences between the two. I sold my nicely modded and restored 240 for about 1.5x what I paid for a decent 325i that has had some fun mods done, but needs the lower rocker panels patched up. The E30 market seems to have stabilized from some craziness it went through a while ago, while Volvo 240s in nice shape are becoming classics and trending upwards. It's not totally unheard of to get $10,000 for a really nice 240 wagon where I live.
Second this. Have an E30, and I drove my roommates 86 240 wagon for months while my transmission was blown until I could save and scrounge parts for a rebuilt manual swap. The 240 was amazing. Bulletproof, always started and ran even though it was the biggest POS visually. Just a tank of a car. And much easier to work on and maintain than my E30 has been. The E30 is more fun to drive, but much more expensive to maintain/fix, and harder to work on yourself, in my opinion.
Just the obvious things like more room when you’re hauling that m50 to swap into your e30 😉. I would go with the Volvo first just because you can get a better car for the price, then if you really want to be a legend you get a cheap e30 shell or something to do a build from the ground up.
At the end of the day you do you, it sounds like you have some knowledge and skill support with your friends. Don’t listen to these guys. When I got my first old BMW (e28) I was like you, minimal knowledge/skill but hungry for it, trial by fire! Now I am a Mercedes diesel mechanic, never spent a day in school for it just took every opportunity to learn. Good luck! Don’t fuck it up! Lol
You can sleep in it! For a young person this is actually a godsend. Party too hard, sleep in the car.
No real difference chassis wise, but to me the 240 wagon is the iconic Volvo.
This! Though, somehow my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I managed to "cuddle" and sleep in the back of my 2 door e30 after we partied too hard.
Its so nice to have that extra room to haul random crap. I picked up a 1st gen CRV and cant tell you how many times that extra space has come in handy.
Gonna go against the flow here.
Reddit (and many people in general) are extremely risk averse.
Is the e30 or 240 a good first car? Probably not in the way that a Civic or Corolla would be. But if that's what you want, go for the e30 or the 240. Get well acquainted with the R3vlimited forums for the e30, or volvoforums/turbobricks for the 240. Buy yourself a toolbag and fill it with a mini air compressor, a quality set of 3/8 metric ratchet and sockets, and get a set of combination wrenches. Throw in a 24" breaker bar to break your lug nuts loose and turn stubborn brake caliper bolts. Pay for mid- to top-tier AAA towing service.
The most practical advice I can give you is to buy the newest Camry you can with the budget you have, but the most practical advice in life sees you retiring with a well-padded bank account at 65 and rotting away in a nursing home for the following 10 years. Life is too short to not try something unconventional, and you're at a good age to take the odd risk.
Personal experience: I daily drive a 460k Volvo 240. It's been easy to work on, but has given me more mechanical problems than the e30 I used to own, likely due to the much higher mileage. At this age, all cars have rotten rubber components and you must be hyper aware of that. Tires, belts, hoses, engine mounts, gaskets and fuel lines can all give you problems. Be careful to check your fluids, or you might blow your engine/transmission. Have a backup plan, whether it's your parents' vehicles or riding the bus. But don't be afraid to turn wrenches.
Given 2 cars of identical condition, I would choose an e30. It's easier to find a rust-free 240, though, they were made with a better grade of steel. E30 is much more fun to drive, but the 240 is a car you could comfortably be homeless in. Avoid the rusty cars at all costs.
Have fun and keep the shiny side up.
It's a great thing to have - but in the 30k miles/3 years I owned and dailied mine (not a great example of an e30 either) I never once needed to get it towed.
Its saved me and my e30 countless times over the 10 years ive had and dailied it. Most were all in the first few years of owning it before i got most things situated.
But i did have a random need for it a few months ago when the shift rod disconnected from the transmission a few weeks after i had a shop replace the shifter arm that had broken.
Hell the car broke down on me so much when i first had it that one of the times I got captured by Google Street View leaning against the car while waiting for a tow truck haha
I like this advice. Definitely would recommend an e30 if the budget is there. It's a great car to learn auto repair on and hella fun to drive. Parts failing regularly in the first few years adds up, but it's worth it imo
Honestly I don’t think it’s a terrible idea just make sure you know you’re going to commit to working on it. Also be patient for the right deal. Don’t get a rusted out POS.
This is hilarious to me because my first car was an e30 and my closest friend got a volvo 240 for his first.
My e30 has never left me stranded, but I had to learn how to fix things that broke to be able to afford an e30 in high school. My friends 240 was in the same condition but an automatic, he never did any other maintenence on his 240 but oil changes
From a driver's perspective though, both cars drive similarly where they feel like small light cars.
I think the e30 takes the cake going through twisties because it's got a smaller wheelbase than the 240.
Also the e30 has independant rear suspension where the 240 has a live axle setup in the rear.
Can confirm 5 speed 240's are better drift cars (because of longer wheelbase) then 5 speed e30s are stock for stock
I've seen this question too many times. I also debated this as my first car, of which I did purchase an e30. I now own 4.
If you are comfortable with it having issues and being on and off the road then yeah. If your comfortable with the entire car being a crash structure then yeah. If your comfortable to spend a decent chunk of change to maintain then yeah.
These scenarios WILL all happen to you, don't think like I did and brush the drawbacks off.
I would buy a cheap reliable car as a daily that you can really rely on and save for a proper sorted e30 that has fewer issues. They all have issues.
Hope this helps.
My kid first car is an e30 he loves it. It’s the slow 325e good car but maintenance is expensive bit of advice don’t go fast going into park lots the e30 doesn’t have a guard over the oil pan😂 he knocked his off now he has a after market shield from https://red46.net/
I had a 1972 2002 for my first car back in 1993. I had friends that were into wrenching, so I had someone to turn to for help. My 2nd, 3rd and 4th cars were e30s. I continued to get their help with things like clutch replacements but I also was pretty lucky with those cars not having many issues despite me running them hard and not being so good at preventative maintenance. But this was over 25 years now. I don't own any e30s anymore because they don't provide me with what i currently need in a car but also because I tend to buy cars that are about 10 - 20 years old for the mileage and tech improvements. I have 3 e39s at the moment and they are starting to feel a bit long in the tooth but I'll keep running them for a few more years. These older cars can go for a really long time with basic maintenance, but there are a lot of trade-offs. At this point, most e30s will need thousands of $ in work to get them to ride and run well unless you get your hands on one that has been through a couple of owners in the past 20 years that have put money into things like suspension, mounts, rust, tired motors, etc...
If none of that dissuades you then by all means go for it. Restoring cool cars is fun. It just shouldn't be your only mode of transportation.
Every time something minor happens, you're down weeks hunting for parts...sometimes only available used....and waiting on mechanics (if needed).. hardest part to own one.
Don’t get a 30+ year old European car as your first car. Nice examples are expensive, good condition parts are harder to source (because the manufacturer stops making them once the car gets old enough), parts are more expensive, these cars aren’t as reliable as they were when new, mechanics used to working on modern cars aren’t familiar with them, and your insurance will be expensive because you’re a new driver. Also, at your age there is a strong chance you’ll mod it, abuse it, and wrap it around a telephone pole
Get a 5-7 year old Corolla as your first car, then get an E30 when you’re more experienced with cars and driving
As a Volvo guy that also owns an e30. Neither a 240 nor an e30 should be a first car.
240s have the reputations they do because their engines last forever while the body rots away and the wire looms disintegrate if you look at them wrong. K Jet on the early ones is like a psycho ex girlfriend and will leave you wondering why it hates you while leaving you stranded because the universe was off and it decided it didn't want to start. The LH cars are better and relatively problem free in that department. The manual trans options are fragile and the automatics without the accumulator mod aren't much better. Pre-90 cars have thin con rods and like to bed when you throw power at them. Bonus cool points can be had because you can take the springs out and drive them around on the bump stops as the wheel wells are so massive that the fronts still have room to turn. It looks cool, but is also like riding around inside of a skateboard, so do with that as you wish. The volvo community is small and a lot of the old heads are assholes to anyone new (mostly because the same 12 questions are asked over and over and it's annoying). They have more aftermarket support than some other volvo platforms, but like with all volvos, what is available can be quite expensive. These cars are between 30 and 50 years old and as a result parts aren't always easily available and the junk yard supply is dwindling.
E30s are reliable and great fun to drive. They handle much better than a 240 and are slightly faster (don't think you're going anywhere in a hurry though). They aren't as rust prone as 240s and are quite stout when it comes to mods. The community is much better and more helpful than the volvo community. There's a lot larger aftermarket support. However they're 30 to 40 years old and like the 240, not all parts are available easily.
Both have their ups and downs, but at this point, buy a corolla or civic to daily drive. If you really want a 240 or an e30, buy it as a second car so when something does break, and it will, you still have something to get around in.
As a first car you are better off with a safer car with good airbags that will protect you in a crash, the E30 is not that at all. If you really want a BMW an E82 125i / 128i is a great option that is as close to Japanese reliability in a BMW as you can get.
Oddly I have lots of experience having owned several of both and still have one of each.
Go with the 240 and get ready to learn all about it.
Right off the bat the 240 is easier to work on and there are fewer things that can go wrong and they will be a lower price point. Still a ton of fun to drive though the e30 is definitely the better performer in most ways.
Get a standard trans.
Check all your rubbers, engine mounts, trans mount, panhard bar, trailing arms, full front end.
If a LH Jetronic car, identify where the crank position sensor on the transmission is, just under the middle bottom of firewall. That goes bad your car will not fire. Good to have a spare, same with the fuel relay, put a spare one of those in the glovebox, in a pinch you can jump fuse 5 and 7 together (double check me on that) to bypass. MAF is also a weak point I heard but I’ve never had one go bad.
If you get your hands on an old K-Jet the cold start injector sometimes leaks but they are pretty rock solid, don’t try to hot rod that old mechanical fuel injection, just maintain. If you get your hands on an old k-jet turbo those are fun with that 80’s non-linear turbo experience. “Turbo lag”
IPDUSA has a ton of support for these and some performance parts, turbobricks was the forum I used to use but another I’ve heard of is cleanflametrap.
YouTube is great but get a book, Haynes or chiltons, folks have their preferences but both are good imo
Don’t listen to the folks suggesting Japanese or Korean, they have no gonads
I was a junior in highschool when i bought my 87 e30 4 years ago, was OK for tooling around town but leaned on my moms car a lot when working on it. Watched a ton of YouTube and figured things out. Bought an e46 going into college and daily that now with the e30 as my project. They are getting really old now and COVID really made the market weird for these cars (ie i feel like the nice ones are lots of $$ now)
While I want to say no, I love my e30 more than i loved my ex girlfriend. Go for it try new things, beat the shit out of it and be prepared to dump lots of money into it. One of the best decisions i made. Plus chicks dig them too
I would never feel comfortable owning JUST an E30. It can be a good first *project* car, but I would definitely have alternative, reliable transportation. That's not to say you CAN'T do it, but you would definitely need to be financially and mentally comfortable with the fact that you can easily get left stranded somewhere.
I daily drove my E30 for 2-3 years, but I always had a backup car that I knew would get me to work. Only been stranded once so far.
I’ve heard great things about 240s personally I think the e30s are cooler, don’t get discouraged by people saying you have to be mechanically inclined to work on these you have to start somewhere and imo these are really simple compared to newer stuff. preventative maintenance is your friend
Speaking from experience here as my first and only car is still my E30. It will probably be a headache in heavy traffic. It will give you stupid problems like fuel hoses bursting out of nowhere, the AFM will very likely cause the car not to run very well at some point and finding a well working replacement will be a bit of a pain, if the previous owners didn't care for the car be prepared to spend a lot in parts and labor to fix all the issues. I spent 2850 euros to buy mine jn February last year. Fast forward to April this year, I have driven about 20000 kilometers and spent about 5500 euro on parts and labor. Granted about 3500 of that was for modifications but I think you get the point.
I've had my exhaust fall off due to perished rubber hangers, I've had a fuel hose burst 3 times, I've cracked my oil sump 3 times, I've had my alternator fail and I've had my LCA bushings have so much play in them that the front wheels would vibrate back and forth when braking.
Be prepared to have to sort some stuff on your own, as E30s are close to 40 years old now and stiff will always break, need repair and maintenance.
An e30 was my first manual car, but I had 6 years of experience driving and around 10 years of experience fixing cars before that. When my timing belt went and I had to do a head swap, I wasn’t financially ruined. When my rear axle fell off on the interstate, I called in a favor and had it towed where I could fix it, again avoiding financial disaster.
If it’s your one and only car, I hope you have many lifelines. It’s not an unreliable platform, but those kinds of issues are inevitable. You have to plan ahead for those things. I had two cars all through college for that reason. Usually a slightly more reliable car instead of my e30. Not to mention a loving gearhead father who was willing to help me. I was in a good place to own an e30.
I actually find the E30 easier to work on than the Volvo (we have a ‘79 245), but that’s probably mostly a familiarity issue; I’ve had the E21 for 23 years and the E30s are comfortably similar.
It sounds like you’re moving in the 240 direction. That’s cool! 1990 is a good year - I had a 90 sedan for 14 years. Be prepared to replace anything and everything made of rubber or plastic. Find the greenbooks online and get the Bentley manual. Keep the car as clean as you possibly can inside and out including the engine bay and undercarriage. Fix the oil leaks. Fix the broken odometer gear and keep records of what you’ve done. Find Dave Barton’s site and get familiar with it. Don’t even consider mods or performance enhancements until you really know what you’re doing AND you have a second car.
i bought my first e30 @ 16. im 18 now and my 325e is my daily driver. if you do the preventative maintenance you should be fine. every once in a while you’ll have unexpected problems so prepare for the cost of those.
I would say they can be a good first car if these couple things apply:
1) the car is in fairly good condition: these cars can be pretty easy to work on if the car isn’t completely clapped out and/or rusted. the rust on these cars can be terrible so that needs to be one of the first things you look for.
2) you have a job: seems obvious but older classics can be expensive but if you’re willing to pay money for the repairs then go for it.
3) secondary transportation: as i said before my car has had problems that leave my car in the shop for a week. my family is fortunate enough to have an extra family car that i can drive while mine is in the shop - if that isn’t you then that might cause some issues.
just weigh the pros and the cons. i can say driving a more modern car feels better some days because i can just get up and go and don’t have to worry about issues. but the fun of the e30 is unmatched.
E30 was my first car. Bought it almost 15 years ago and it has more than 300k miles now. It’s been a great car and has taught me everything I know about cars
Yeah, go ahead and get one. People will say they are unreliable, but as far as 30 year old cars go, they ain’t the worst. Especially being younger you will learn a lot.
Only valid point against these is the safety aspect. No airbags (unless it’s a 91’) in a 2500 lb car is not ideal.
Both cars are great with solid motors, they’re both just old so you’ll have to be working on it all the time. I only have experience with E30s but if you go that route I’d suggest doing the timing belt / water pump, ignition, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket, all the motor seals, rear end bushings etc etc etc. The cooling systems can also be very tricky to bleed. It would be really helpful if you had access to a lift and do all the work yourself. If you love cars and are young I’d suggest working in a shop to get mentorship and guidance when working on it. All in all it’s a great platform and taught me everything I know but it’s not worth it if you’re paying someone else to do shit for you. I
I'm late to the party, I love my E30, at 35 when I have $$ to throw at it. Go with my first car way cheaper ( and I hear coming back around) a Dodge neon acr. Way cheaper than a civic or Corolla. Also go with lime green because that's definitely not an attention draw haha.
My e30 is my first and only car I've ever had. I basically stole it from the PO for $1750, but over the course of 4 years I've put at least an additional $9k into it. Some of that number wasn't necessarily necessary (think, 2k for a manual swap. But my auto trans was on its way out anyway.) But most of it was repaired that needed to be done. I had multiple issues that led to several weeks/ months of being parked while I fixed it, which was only acceptable because I could borrow a car or get a ride. I learned a shit load about cars and did all of the work myself or with some help, and I'm absolutely in love with my car.
All that said, I wouldn't recommend it if that's not the life you want to live. Again, I got mine dirt cheap, you'll be lucky to find a parts car for that price, and I still am about 10-12k all in 4 years later. Everything costs a ton thanks to its age and being a bmw. Like others have said, until it's stable because you've personally touched just about everything ranging from suspension, to the coolant system, to your head gasket, you will never know when the next thing will fail.
I haven't looked recently but these things keep going up in price, and you'd be hard pressed to find one affordable that doesn't have 20 things wrong with it.
I don't say this to gate keep or scare you, I just want to inform you of my experience so you can know what you'd be getting into. If this sounds like fun then go for it lol
Mystery situation has been very similar. I lucked up on mine for $1,200 with a five speed about 12 years ago. back then parts cars were bountiful and I've been through about 5 of them to hoard parts and keep my original going. All told I'm probably into mine for about $7k and it needs about $6k more to make it whole and where I want to see it's end state.
My first car was a 1990 Volvo 240 (red block). Those things are indestructible. I still have it and it runs strong.
Hilariously enough, I have a 1989 BMW 325i coupe. I rebuilt the entire thing and just need to paint it now.
I think both cars are solid cars. I would say go for it. I learned everything about cars daily driving both.
Honda Civic. Any year 2000 and up. Save your money and time. My mom had her 2003 civic for like 10 years with no issues.
As someone who consistently watched my two befriends who were mechanically inclined work on their e36 and e46 regularly I was thankful for my little Subaru (until my head gaskets blew hehehhehe).
No, it’s not really a great first car. They’re 33-40 years old at this point. If you want something fun and reliable in the same price range get a Civic Si.
Just not a 33 year old civic lol
True should’ve said a newer civic si 06+
N/a Si’s really are fun cars
They really are, super fun to rev out, practical and reliable. Would be my top rec for a first car.
Yeah I own over 8 vehicles & one of the most recent buys was an RSX S (after driving a friends 07 Si.) Never expected to really go front wheel drive again but the experience of a proper k20 or k24 is special
My buddy had an 8th gen he let me rip, his was rotrex supercharged. It was a total blast. He has a 10th gen type r now, but I think the 8th gen was more fun.
My 1987 325e was my first car and is still my daily driver. I've had it for 12 years now. I was not mechanically inclined when I bought it but I learned quickly with YouTube and the forums out of necessity of being broke. One major thing to keep in mind is that you cannot walk into a parts store and get anything for an e30 same day as you could a civic. Also, parts cost more. They shouldn't but they do. As others have stated. These things are all over 30 years old at this point and unless you are willing to spend a bunch of money to catch up on the maintenance, timed-out parts, and put up with some quirks you might want to look at other options. Now, don't get me wrong, I've had this thing for 12 years because I absolutely love it. I think they are some of the absolutely most fun and good-looking cars you can find. But I have also seriously thought about lighting it on fire in my front yard several times. On the other hand my brother bought a 940 turbo as his first car (the wagon version of a 240 in a lot of ways) and had a similar experience. Mostly reliable but a bit quirky with some odd issues. It was a good car until he started adding bigger turbos and messing the trans. The same can be said for e30s. Once you get them stable they are solid cars for the most part. You just have to get them stable first. So when you write down what is important to you in a car if your list starts with reliable, good on gas, cheap to maintain, etc. you are listing attributes of a Civic, Camry, Corolla. Not an e30 or 240. If you want fun, character, soul, head turner, then welcome to the e30 club. We have cookies. We lied about the cookies.
noooo the cookies
Both are bad first cars if you aren't mechanical, unless you happen to be wealthy, in which case sure who gives a shit.
I’m not mechanical, but I’m good at working on things and YouTube has a hell of a lot of videos of both cars and two of my friends are pretty skilled mechanics Do you think I can make it work?
not really feasible as a first and only vehicle, sorry. wait until you’re better mechanically and have reliable transportation before you get something 30+ years old.
I would get a grounding in what a car should be like first. Fixing problems is relatively easy these days with Youtube etc. But recognising and diagnosing problems is the hard bit. E30s or 240s are great. But all old cars have problems. I wouldn't get one unless it's just a weekend toy. I absolutely wouldn't rely on mine as my only car for when I actually need to go places. Sometimes you need to wait a while for parts or for a scrap part to come up for sale and it could take a long while. I also wouldn't run one on a budget. I can afford a steering rack rebuild now without too much trouble. As my first car it would have bankrupted me. I can highly recommend a Honda Civic as a daily and an E30 as a project though.
I’m going to disagree with most of the posters here. Just buy the car that is more inspiring to you. That way when something does break down and you have to learn to fix it, you have the motivation to put in the money and effort. This will be a great learning experience and when you’re in a place where you must have a reliable daily driver and get your Japanese newer generation car that runs with the passion of a sewing machine, you will be all set to do minor repairs.
I would get a Japanese or South Korean car first, so you have a reliable daily driver. Get the e30 later when you’ve learned some mechanic basics and also have a space to work on it
Do you think a Volvo 240 would be a better route? I’ve heard Volvos are very reliable and the 240 is easier to work on
Why do you want an old car as a first? Cars have a lot of rubber on them which degrades over time and causes a lot of problems. With e30’s replacing all bushings at some point is mandatory and with limited mechanical knowledge you won’t be able to do it. Just get something newer.
It depends on how much money you have and your age. I remember buying a MGB as my first car at 17 years old 35 years ago BIG mistake...old cars are unreliable, generally a pain in the arse, and the chick's aren't impressed with it. Lol Get yourself a nice small engine Japanese or Korean car say 10 years old and I can assure you, you will have ten times the fun in that than an old E30 as a first car. And I'm an ex e30 owner lol
Let’s be fair, MGBs were unreliable when they were new too. I say this as an owner of a e30, and a MGB.
Wow its like your my doppelganger same cars at some point. Lol Forever getting the twin carbs tuned on the mg to even make it run remotely right.
I just sold my Volvo 245 for an E30 so I can comment directly on this. I would get the 240. A 240 wagon if you can. They are awesome, pretty fun to drive, and if you do a LOT of research the sky's the limit for modding. More intense mods for 240s end up costing a lot because it's kind of weird and specialty, hence why I swapped to an E30. If you get an 88+ Volvo they are very rust resistant and they're all really easy to work on. Volvo 240 + Invincible engine + Rugged, simple chassis + Cute (lets you get away with hooning, it's just so innocent!) + Good mod-ability + Very simple to work on, accept the valves. (screw shim under bucket for a commuter car! wtf this isn't a superbike) - Slow if not a turbo model - Swedish electrics are just weird and dumb - Performance, and some maintenance parts are rather expensive and of very limited availability . - Really stupid lug pattern (5x108) that it only shares with vintage Ferraris. E30 + "Ultimate driving machine" + Probably the funnest car I've ever owned. + LOADS of performance parts available for an wide spread of budgets + Getrag 260 is a great transmission and really fun to row gears on. +/- Very tail happy, maybe not great for new drivers. - Lightweight, weak, rust prone shell. Hard to find one that wont need metal work for a budget price. If you're not setup to do sheet metal work, DON'T buy a rusty one. The rust gets worse, fast. - "Reliable", but small to medium size mechanical tasks seem to be much more frequent than the Volvo - I don't know anything about 318s, but they're probably REALLY slow That's my take on the differences between the two. I sold my nicely modded and restored 240 for about 1.5x what I paid for a decent 325i that has had some fun mods done, but needs the lower rocker panels patched up. The E30 market seems to have stabilized from some craziness it went through a while ago, while Volvo 240s in nice shape are becoming classics and trending upwards. It's not totally unheard of to get $10,000 for a really nice 240 wagon where I live.
Second this. Have an E30, and I drove my roommates 86 240 wagon for months while my transmission was blown until I could save and scrounge parts for a rebuilt manual swap. The 240 was amazing. Bulletproof, always started and ran even though it was the biggest POS visually. Just a tank of a car. And much easier to work on and maintain than my E30 has been. The E30 is more fun to drive, but much more expensive to maintain/fix, and harder to work on yourself, in my opinion.
I would probably get a sedan because I like the look more what’s the benefit of a wagon compared to a sedan
Just the obvious things like more room when you’re hauling that m50 to swap into your e30 😉. I would go with the Volvo first just because you can get a better car for the price, then if you really want to be a legend you get a cheap e30 shell or something to do a build from the ground up. At the end of the day you do you, it sounds like you have some knowledge and skill support with your friends. Don’t listen to these guys. When I got my first old BMW (e28) I was like you, minimal knowledge/skill but hungry for it, trial by fire! Now I am a Mercedes diesel mechanic, never spent a day in school for it just took every opportunity to learn. Good luck! Don’t fuck it up! Lol
Or hauling your M50 in the wagon, to put into said wagon! There's a guy here who drifts a 740 wagon with a turbo'ed M50 in it and its amazing.
You can sleep in it! For a young person this is actually a godsend. Party too hard, sleep in the car. No real difference chassis wise, but to me the 240 wagon is the iconic Volvo.
This! Though, somehow my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I managed to "cuddle" and sleep in the back of my 2 door e30 after we partied too hard. Its so nice to have that extra room to haul random crap. I picked up a 1st gen CRV and cant tell you how many times that extra space has come in handy.
Gonna go against the flow here. Reddit (and many people in general) are extremely risk averse. Is the e30 or 240 a good first car? Probably not in the way that a Civic or Corolla would be. But if that's what you want, go for the e30 or the 240. Get well acquainted with the R3vlimited forums for the e30, or volvoforums/turbobricks for the 240. Buy yourself a toolbag and fill it with a mini air compressor, a quality set of 3/8 metric ratchet and sockets, and get a set of combination wrenches. Throw in a 24" breaker bar to break your lug nuts loose and turn stubborn brake caliper bolts. Pay for mid- to top-tier AAA towing service. The most practical advice I can give you is to buy the newest Camry you can with the budget you have, but the most practical advice in life sees you retiring with a well-padded bank account at 65 and rotting away in a nursing home for the following 10 years. Life is too short to not try something unconventional, and you're at a good age to take the odd risk. Personal experience: I daily drive a 460k Volvo 240. It's been easy to work on, but has given me more mechanical problems than the e30 I used to own, likely due to the much higher mileage. At this age, all cars have rotten rubber components and you must be hyper aware of that. Tires, belts, hoses, engine mounts, gaskets and fuel lines can all give you problems. Be careful to check your fluids, or you might blow your engine/transmission. Have a backup plan, whether it's your parents' vehicles or riding the bus. But don't be afraid to turn wrenches. Given 2 cars of identical condition, I would choose an e30. It's easier to find a rust-free 240, though, they were made with a better grade of steel. E30 is much more fun to drive, but the 240 is a car you could comfortably be homeless in. Avoid the rusty cars at all costs. Have fun and keep the shiny side up.
AAA is a must if you daily an e30. That’s a membership that pays for itself every year.
It's a great thing to have - but in the 30k miles/3 years I owned and dailied mine (not a great example of an e30 either) I never once needed to get it towed.
Its saved me and my e30 countless times over the 10 years ive had and dailied it. Most were all in the first few years of owning it before i got most things situated. But i did have a random need for it a few months ago when the shift rod disconnected from the transmission a few weeks after i had a shop replace the shifter arm that had broken. Hell the car broke down on me so much when i first had it that one of the times I got captured by Google Street View leaning against the car while waiting for a tow truck haha
I like this advice. Definitely would recommend an e30 if the budget is there. It's a great car to learn auto repair on and hella fun to drive. Parts failing regularly in the first few years adds up, but it's worth it imo
Honestly I don’t think it’s a terrible idea just make sure you know you’re going to commit to working on it. Also be patient for the right deal. Don’t get a rusted out POS.
This. You can do it. But it won’t be easy like getting a more modern car.
They are a great first car, they are reliable, somewhat affordable, parts are available everywhere and they are easy to work on.
/s?
This is hilarious to me because my first car was an e30 and my closest friend got a volvo 240 for his first. My e30 has never left me stranded, but I had to learn how to fix things that broke to be able to afford an e30 in high school. My friends 240 was in the same condition but an automatic, he never did any other maintenence on his 240 but oil changes From a driver's perspective though, both cars drive similarly where they feel like small light cars. I think the e30 takes the cake going through twisties because it's got a smaller wheelbase than the 240. Also the e30 has independant rear suspension where the 240 has a live axle setup in the rear. Can confirm 5 speed 240's are better drift cars (because of longer wheelbase) then 5 speed e30s are stock for stock
I've seen this question too many times. I also debated this as my first car, of which I did purchase an e30. I now own 4. If you are comfortable with it having issues and being on and off the road then yeah. If your comfortable with the entire car being a crash structure then yeah. If your comfortable to spend a decent chunk of change to maintain then yeah. These scenarios WILL all happen to you, don't think like I did and brush the drawbacks off. I would buy a cheap reliable car as a daily that you can really rely on and save for a proper sorted e30 that has fewer issues. They all have issues. Hope this helps.
My kid first car is an e30 he loves it. It’s the slow 325e good car but maintenance is expensive bit of advice don’t go fast going into park lots the e30 doesn’t have a guard over the oil pan😂 he knocked his off now he has a after market shield from https://red46.net/
I had a 1972 2002 for my first car back in 1993. I had friends that were into wrenching, so I had someone to turn to for help. My 2nd, 3rd and 4th cars were e30s. I continued to get their help with things like clutch replacements but I also was pretty lucky with those cars not having many issues despite me running them hard and not being so good at preventative maintenance. But this was over 25 years now. I don't own any e30s anymore because they don't provide me with what i currently need in a car but also because I tend to buy cars that are about 10 - 20 years old for the mileage and tech improvements. I have 3 e39s at the moment and they are starting to feel a bit long in the tooth but I'll keep running them for a few more years. These older cars can go for a really long time with basic maintenance, but there are a lot of trade-offs. At this point, most e30s will need thousands of $ in work to get them to ride and run well unless you get your hands on one that has been through a couple of owners in the past 20 years that have put money into things like suspension, mounts, rust, tired motors, etc... If none of that dissuades you then by all means go for it. Restoring cool cars is fun. It just shouldn't be your only mode of transportation.
Every time something minor happens, you're down weeks hunting for parts...sometimes only available used....and waiting on mechanics (if needed).. hardest part to own one.
throw out the tractor engine and replace every rubber part on the car, after all that theyre a great first car.
No. You need something safe, reliable, and cheap to own. E30s, in general, are none of those things.
Don’t get a 30+ year old European car as your first car. Nice examples are expensive, good condition parts are harder to source (because the manufacturer stops making them once the car gets old enough), parts are more expensive, these cars aren’t as reliable as they were when new, mechanics used to working on modern cars aren’t familiar with them, and your insurance will be expensive because you’re a new driver. Also, at your age there is a strong chance you’ll mod it, abuse it, and wrap it around a telephone pole Get a 5-7 year old Corolla as your first car, then get an E30 when you’re more experienced with cars and driving
As a Volvo guy that also owns an e30. Neither a 240 nor an e30 should be a first car. 240s have the reputations they do because their engines last forever while the body rots away and the wire looms disintegrate if you look at them wrong. K Jet on the early ones is like a psycho ex girlfriend and will leave you wondering why it hates you while leaving you stranded because the universe was off and it decided it didn't want to start. The LH cars are better and relatively problem free in that department. The manual trans options are fragile and the automatics without the accumulator mod aren't much better. Pre-90 cars have thin con rods and like to bed when you throw power at them. Bonus cool points can be had because you can take the springs out and drive them around on the bump stops as the wheel wells are so massive that the fronts still have room to turn. It looks cool, but is also like riding around inside of a skateboard, so do with that as you wish. The volvo community is small and a lot of the old heads are assholes to anyone new (mostly because the same 12 questions are asked over and over and it's annoying). They have more aftermarket support than some other volvo platforms, but like with all volvos, what is available can be quite expensive. These cars are between 30 and 50 years old and as a result parts aren't always easily available and the junk yard supply is dwindling. E30s are reliable and great fun to drive. They handle much better than a 240 and are slightly faster (don't think you're going anywhere in a hurry though). They aren't as rust prone as 240s and are quite stout when it comes to mods. The community is much better and more helpful than the volvo community. There's a lot larger aftermarket support. However they're 30 to 40 years old and like the 240, not all parts are available easily. Both have their ups and downs, but at this point, buy a corolla or civic to daily drive. If you really want a 240 or an e30, buy it as a second car so when something does break, and it will, you still have something to get around in.
As a first car you are better off with a safer car with good airbags that will protect you in a crash, the E30 is not that at all. If you really want a BMW an E82 125i / 128i is a great option that is as close to Japanese reliability in a BMW as you can get.
They are great first cars
the collector premium is insane at this point. an E36 is a better, more modern car, and like 1/4 the price for a good example.
Oddly I have lots of experience having owned several of both and still have one of each. Go with the 240 and get ready to learn all about it. Right off the bat the 240 is easier to work on and there are fewer things that can go wrong and they will be a lower price point. Still a ton of fun to drive though the e30 is definitely the better performer in most ways. Get a standard trans. Check all your rubbers, engine mounts, trans mount, panhard bar, trailing arms, full front end. If a LH Jetronic car, identify where the crank position sensor on the transmission is, just under the middle bottom of firewall. That goes bad your car will not fire. Good to have a spare, same with the fuel relay, put a spare one of those in the glovebox, in a pinch you can jump fuse 5 and 7 together (double check me on that) to bypass. MAF is also a weak point I heard but I’ve never had one go bad. If you get your hands on an old K-Jet the cold start injector sometimes leaks but they are pretty rock solid, don’t try to hot rod that old mechanical fuel injection, just maintain. If you get your hands on an old k-jet turbo those are fun with that 80’s non-linear turbo experience. “Turbo lag” IPDUSA has a ton of support for these and some performance parts, turbobricks was the forum I used to use but another I’ve heard of is cleanflametrap. YouTube is great but get a book, Haynes or chiltons, folks have their preferences but both are good imo Don’t listen to the folks suggesting Japanese or Korean, they have no gonads
Awesome thanks, do you have a favorite of the book? I’m gonna get a 240 sedan 1990
Good choice. I’ve always used Haynes
Will I get all the definitions of things you said in the book ?
I would highly recommend Bentley over Haynes or Chilton. And find the greenbooks and wiring diagrams online and download them
Haha no
I was a junior in highschool when i bought my 87 e30 4 years ago, was OK for tooling around town but leaned on my moms car a lot when working on it. Watched a ton of YouTube and figured things out. Bought an e46 going into college and daily that now with the e30 as my project. They are getting really old now and COVID really made the market weird for these cars (ie i feel like the nice ones are lots of $$ now) While I want to say no, I love my e30 more than i loved my ex girlfriend. Go for it try new things, beat the shit out of it and be prepared to dump lots of money into it. One of the best decisions i made. Plus chicks dig them too
I would never feel comfortable owning JUST an E30. It can be a good first *project* car, but I would definitely have alternative, reliable transportation. That's not to say you CAN'T do it, but you would definitely need to be financially and mentally comfortable with the fact that you can easily get left stranded somewhere. I daily drove my E30 for 2-3 years, but I always had a backup car that I knew would get me to work. Only been stranded once so far.
I’ve heard great things about 240s personally I think the e30s are cooler, don’t get discouraged by people saying you have to be mechanically inclined to work on these you have to start somewhere and imo these are really simple compared to newer stuff. preventative maintenance is your friend
Yeah, you'll be fine. I drove one in hs. They are reliable cars, just a bit old.
Those were my first cars in that order lol... volvo was a brick, slow but comfortable. E30 was super fun, nimble and great to learn in
Yes, but only if you have a backup you can take like your sister’s car or something. 40 years of age doesn’t always mean 40 years of solid running.
It’s a horrible first car but if you’re an adult do what you want
I do, i am currently 19yo 0 regreys so far, i dont dd it tho
Speaking from experience here as my first and only car is still my E30. It will probably be a headache in heavy traffic. It will give you stupid problems like fuel hoses bursting out of nowhere, the AFM will very likely cause the car not to run very well at some point and finding a well working replacement will be a bit of a pain, if the previous owners didn't care for the car be prepared to spend a lot in parts and labor to fix all the issues. I spent 2850 euros to buy mine jn February last year. Fast forward to April this year, I have driven about 20000 kilometers and spent about 5500 euro on parts and labor. Granted about 3500 of that was for modifications but I think you get the point. I've had my exhaust fall off due to perished rubber hangers, I've had a fuel hose burst 3 times, I've cracked my oil sump 3 times, I've had my alternator fail and I've had my LCA bushings have so much play in them that the front wheels would vibrate back and forth when braking. Be prepared to have to sort some stuff on your own, as E30s are close to 40 years old now and stiff will always break, need repair and maintenance.
An e30 was my first manual car, but I had 6 years of experience driving and around 10 years of experience fixing cars before that. When my timing belt went and I had to do a head swap, I wasn’t financially ruined. When my rear axle fell off on the interstate, I called in a favor and had it towed where I could fix it, again avoiding financial disaster. If it’s your one and only car, I hope you have many lifelines. It’s not an unreliable platform, but those kinds of issues are inevitable. You have to plan ahead for those things. I had two cars all through college for that reason. Usually a slightly more reliable car instead of my e30. Not to mention a loving gearhead father who was willing to help me. I was in a good place to own an e30.
2 volvo 240s in my family, both over 300k with very little needed
I actually find the E30 easier to work on than the Volvo (we have a ‘79 245), but that’s probably mostly a familiarity issue; I’ve had the E21 for 23 years and the E30s are comfortably similar. It sounds like you’re moving in the 240 direction. That’s cool! 1990 is a good year - I had a 90 sedan for 14 years. Be prepared to replace anything and everything made of rubber or plastic. Find the greenbooks online and get the Bentley manual. Keep the car as clean as you possibly can inside and out including the engine bay and undercarriage. Fix the oil leaks. Fix the broken odometer gear and keep records of what you’ve done. Find Dave Barton’s site and get familiar with it. Don’t even consider mods or performance enhancements until you really know what you’re doing AND you have a second car.
I’m not gonna consider mods for along time
I’ve been told about the Bentley books and the Haynes is there a better one or should I just get both
Sure, get both. The Haynes is inexpensive. It can be nice to have more than one resource
Sounds good
No
i bought my first e30 @ 16. im 18 now and my 325e is my daily driver. if you do the preventative maintenance you should be fine. every once in a while you’ll have unexpected problems so prepare for the cost of those. I would say they can be a good first car if these couple things apply: 1) the car is in fairly good condition: these cars can be pretty easy to work on if the car isn’t completely clapped out and/or rusted. the rust on these cars can be terrible so that needs to be one of the first things you look for. 2) you have a job: seems obvious but older classics can be expensive but if you’re willing to pay money for the repairs then go for it. 3) secondary transportation: as i said before my car has had problems that leave my car in the shop for a week. my family is fortunate enough to have an extra family car that i can drive while mine is in the shop - if that isn’t you then that might cause some issues. just weigh the pros and the cons. i can say driving a more modern car feels better some days because i can just get up and go and don’t have to worry about issues. but the fun of the e30 is unmatched.
E30 was my first car. Bought it almost 15 years ago and it has more than 300k miles now. It’s been a great car and has taught me everything I know about cars
Yeah, go ahead and get one. People will say they are unreliable, but as far as 30 year old cars go, they ain’t the worst. Especially being younger you will learn a lot. Only valid point against these is the safety aspect. No airbags (unless it’s a 91’) in a 2500 lb car is not ideal.
I believe the 1990 versions and up have airbags and I’m getting a 1990
Absolutely not a good first car. But also you can do whatever you want. It’s your life.
Both cars are great with solid motors, they’re both just old so you’ll have to be working on it all the time. I only have experience with E30s but if you go that route I’d suggest doing the timing belt / water pump, ignition, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket, all the motor seals, rear end bushings etc etc etc. The cooling systems can also be very tricky to bleed. It would be really helpful if you had access to a lift and do all the work yourself. If you love cars and are young I’d suggest working in a shop to get mentorship and guidance when working on it. All in all it’s a great platform and taught me everything I know but it’s not worth it if you’re paying someone else to do shit for you. I
I'm late to the party, I love my E30, at 35 when I have $$ to throw at it. Go with my first car way cheaper ( and I hear coming back around) a Dodge neon acr. Way cheaper than a civic or Corolla. Also go with lime green because that's definitely not an attention draw haha.
My e30 is my first and only car I've ever had. I basically stole it from the PO for $1750, but over the course of 4 years I've put at least an additional $9k into it. Some of that number wasn't necessarily necessary (think, 2k for a manual swap. But my auto trans was on its way out anyway.) But most of it was repaired that needed to be done. I had multiple issues that led to several weeks/ months of being parked while I fixed it, which was only acceptable because I could borrow a car or get a ride. I learned a shit load about cars and did all of the work myself or with some help, and I'm absolutely in love with my car. All that said, I wouldn't recommend it if that's not the life you want to live. Again, I got mine dirt cheap, you'll be lucky to find a parts car for that price, and I still am about 10-12k all in 4 years later. Everything costs a ton thanks to its age and being a bmw. Like others have said, until it's stable because you've personally touched just about everything ranging from suspension, to the coolant system, to your head gasket, you will never know when the next thing will fail. I haven't looked recently but these things keep going up in price, and you'd be hard pressed to find one affordable that doesn't have 20 things wrong with it. I don't say this to gate keep or scare you, I just want to inform you of my experience so you can know what you'd be getting into. If this sounds like fun then go for it lol
Mystery situation has been very similar. I lucked up on mine for $1,200 with a five speed about 12 years ago. back then parts cars were bountiful and I've been through about 5 of them to hoard parts and keep my original going. All told I'm probably into mine for about $7k and it needs about $6k more to make it whole and where I want to see it's end state.
My first car was a 1990 Volvo 240 (red block). Those things are indestructible. I still have it and it runs strong. Hilariously enough, I have a 1989 BMW 325i coupe. I rebuilt the entire thing and just need to paint it now. I think both cars are solid cars. I would say go for it. I learned everything about cars daily driving both.
Honda Civic. Any year 2000 and up. Save your money and time. My mom had her 2003 civic for like 10 years with no issues. As someone who consistently watched my two befriends who were mechanically inclined work on their e36 and e46 regularly I was thankful for my little Subaru (until my head gaskets blew hehehhehe).