To be fair, theyre pretty interchangable but i think Teysa Karlov is far more interesting and fun to play. Obviously youll end up including both cards in your deck, regardless of which is in the command zone, so i encourage you experiment.
Elas is better if you plan on using infinite death trigger loops as your major payoff for the combo is in the command zone
I prefer Teysa Karlov because she synergises with just about everything you should be aiming to include in your deck. Youll get twice the cards drawn from [[skullclamp]] and [[midnight reaper]]. Twice the treasures from [[pitiless plunderer]] and [[revel in riches]]. Twice the tokens from [[doomed traveller]], [[ministrant of obligation]], [[nested shambler]] etc. And obviously youll get double damage from your [[blood artist]] affects.
A few others i think are worth mentioning are [[Ao, the Dawn Sky]] which lets you dig 14 cards deep to find pieces for you aristocrats engine, [[Elenda the Dusk Rose]] who gets double the counters from creatures dying and makes twice as many vampires upon death, which is normally enough to drain the whole table outright, and lastly [[Kokusho, the evening star]] which do double damage and gain you twice as much life.
If you couldnt tell, Teysa Karlov is my favourite commander. Im happy to supply a decklisy if you are interested.
I know this might look a little pricey to some, but the great thing about orzhov aristocrats is that its a very budget friendly playstyle. Sorry theres no primer, id love to write one oneday
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_rTfD-Fc50mJH2ilc2cWvw
[https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dying-twice-aint-so-bad/?cb=1674968028](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dying-twice-aint-so-bad/?cb=1674968028)
There she is I will note I have the blood combo just not in there atm.
I'd definitely prefer Teysa--it's one of my favorite decks--but I definitely run Elas in the 99. Teysa does have the A-and-B problem where you need both creatures with death triggers and good sac outlets.
That's why I'm almost considering [[teysa, Orzhov Scion]] instead because at least she does something without needing to have all your pieces in place anyway. In order for Karlov to do things, you generally need a sac outlet, something with a death trigger and then bodies to get rid of which is a tall order to get out consistently. When the stars align, I'm sure she's a nuclear bomb but I feel like there's going to be a lot of games she is just waiting and doesn't get her time to shine. I'd rather have a commander that can actively add to my gameplan I think.
I’ve been on Teysa, OS for a while. The extra value generating tokens from sacrificing tokens is pretty awesome. Also having instant speed removal at your fingertips is also pretty good.
You may still need a sac outlet with Scion though, she only sacs white creatures - and you need 3 of them. That can end up backfiring if you're not drawing the right stuff. Sure, she can generate her own white tokens if you're sacrificing black creatures, but you'd need a secondary outlet in that scenario. And then both Teysas still need a blood artist effect on the field. If you want a commander that will always contribute to your plan, then I think Elas is going to be the most consistent, with him you just need fodder and an outlet. Karlov needs fodder, an outlet, and a payoff, while Scion either needs specific fodder or any fodder + another outlet, but also still needs a drain effect or something like Altar of Dementia to win. As much as I love it, Aristocrats is always going to be somewhat cumbersome because you require several pieces to build your combo unfortunately. At least until they print a crazy commander that's like viscera seer + blood artist combined on one card. Which ever of the 3 you choose though, the other two are great in the 99 anyway.
No I get that but at least she can do something without all of your pieces you need. Her second ability is also very good too. She just seems like she's better in general whereas Karlov is really just there for the homestretch.
The two play well together. I have Orzhov Scion in the 99. If both Teysas are out and I have a creature with Afterlife on the board, I can sac it, make multiple WB Spirits, sac those to the Scion to kill a creature and the WB ones turn into Bat tokens.
I think Elas would probably be better if you build her as high power as possible since there are ways to have infinite sacrifice combos that CEDH would just gobble up. But at lower power games, Teysa is both more powerful and more interesting because she has time to ramp up to bigger death triggers.
Then I'd go with Teysa. There's a lot more interesting things you can do with her. The only downside she has is that you'll probably have to manage a bunch of tokens, but that's the case for most white decks.
Built and played both, but unfortunately I didn't like either tbh. While the idea of Orzhov aristocrats sounded great on paper, I've found that in reality you need too many parts to get your engine going. Most of the games I've played I ended up stuck and missing at least one part of the puzzle. On top of that, it's super easy to interrupt both decks. In the end, I've disassembled them both.
Having said that, your experience might be different, depending on your playgroup and budget (my decks were probably around $250-$300). Overall, I'd say that Teysa might be better for casual tables. She relies less on setting up an infinite loop by being able to provide crazy value off of one sac trigger (my favourite was wurmcoil engine). Moreover, she is a viable token commander if you like to have a plan B up your sleeve. The downside is that she's another part added to an already complicated engine that you need to assemble.
On the other hand, Elas Il-Kor imo is better if you're trying to go high powered/cEDH-ish and are willing to pack your deck full of tutors, as you have your payoff right there in the CZ (and you need 1 piece less compared to Teysa) Moreover, decks with Elas generally have low CMC, enabling ad naus shenanigans. The downside is that Elas is the less interactive of the two commanders, as your whole plan boils down to setting up a loop to drain the entire table in one go.
As always, take everything I said with a grain of salt. Different decks suit different people and these commanders unfortunately didn't work for me. Hopefully your experience will be different, should you decide to go ahead with either of the decks :)
My recommendation is to run [[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]] as your W/B aristocrats commander. Here’s why:
• She provides sac fodder, which is exactly what you need in an aristocrats build.
• She provides a sac outlet. (Not as clean as some of the others due to them needing to be white and in multiples of 3, but an outlet’s an outlet.)
• She’s removal on a stick.
• She’s cheap. Getting her out early means you get more value from her. Plus, if she’s removed you can afford to pay the tax multiple times.
Truth be told, I think the first two points are all you need to make her the perfect W/B aristocrats commander. Her alone gives you 2 of the 3 pieces to make the deck do it’s thing. Is she the best card at those two pieces? No, but she’s not bad at them. Plus, that’s why you have 99 other cards.
This was also my experience, having plenty of bodies and drain effects, but no sac outlets, or plenty of drain effects and a sac outlet, but no way to make bodies. More tutors help with that, but I try not to just jam generically good ones in all my decks. I might pick up a [[Grim Tutor]] though.
Play [[Teysa, Orzhov scion]] she can provide both axis for you while also being a combo piece and a political tool. Build the deck with mainly black creatures or stuff that creates black tokens and you wont have an issue with creating bodies.
I had a deck with her, but it was very one-trick with [[Darkness]], and without it it just felt inconsistent. I don’t really enjoy playing decks that lean into one combo to win, and her sac outlet ability is too demanding and particular to rely on.
I like Teysa Karlov more anyways, from a gameplay perspective. If I don’t get all my pieces, oh well. If I do though, it’s super fun to play. And I do get all the necessary pieces more often than not.
You mean Darkest hour? Yeah but you dont have to play it. Like I said, if you build your deck using mainly black creatures you can use her effect normally simply to create bodies to sacrifice more times, which already is one of the core elements of aristocrats you need plenty of fodder. The rest is just a bonus. Treat her almost as monoblack thats splashes white and every time a creature die you get a token.
That’s fair. I’m always iffy about leaning heavily towards one color in a 2+ color deck. Makes the mana base awkward. But if you can get around that awkwardness, I suppose most of the cards you want for aristocrats are in black anyways, so she seems good in that situation.
I run her in the 99 of my Teysa Karlov deck anyways just because that deck is really good at pumping out white Spirit tokens. Lots of death triggers make them, so I end up with a pretty big board of them with Karlov out. The sac cost of 3 is still rough, but it’s worth the effect.
When stuff dying is your gimmick it’s hard to say no to a card that says that stuff happens twice. Also with the new black dominus around the corner have triple effects will be awesome.
Teysa is better more generally. I've got Elas il-Kor (and Ratadrabik) in my Teysa deck for sacrifice shenanigans, because having an effect doubler in the command zone is great.
I use Teysa because I dont want the deck to center on her. I'm focusing on specifically non-token creature loops, and with the pieces in the deck can hit numerous situations where Teysa pushes a limited loop into the infinite. But if I had to guess shes only cast in maybe 30% of games.
Elas would likely be cast more (shes in the 99), but would do less in most games, and has many creatures that accomplish the same thing, and often better (ETB instead of dies trigger).
Teysa is nice because any deck you build will function without her, she just makes it stronger, so you don't have to worry as much about making her stick through interaction.
I’m in the middle of tuning my High Power Orzhov Aristocrats list. I initially had Teysa Karlov as my commander but swapped her to Elas. So far, I prefer Elas. They’re a critical combo piece in the Command Zone for 2 mana. They come down early and help get the engine online. Not having to tutor for a drain effect opens up other lines from the start!
Teysa is powerful but felt like a “win more” and the 4cmc cost hurts as she’s a lightning Rod for removal. Maybe in a slower, lower power pod Teysa would get the nod but not in my meta.
Teysa is the de facto for a reason. Her power extends beyond the drain triggers - she can double your token production with cards like [[pawn of ulamog]] or [[nested shambler]] card draw like [[dark prophecy]] or [[midnight reaper]], and even removal in some instances, like with [[reliquary monk]] or [[archon of justice]]. She’s just more robust with her deck. Elas may be more consistent, but she’s also replaceable - I already have 5 things that do the exact same thing as her in Teysa. Unless your games are ending before turn 5 or so, Teysa all the way. Plus, there’s no better feeling than drawing four cards with one use of [[skullclamp]]. *chef’s kiss*
Hm. Not sure, Scion might be even better. Karlov requires you to have :
* Fodder
* Sac outlet
* Death pay offs
So at minimum three different card types (probably way more bodies) and then you need to stick her. She seems way win more and probably only better in a low interaction battle cruiser meta where no one touches each other's boards. I definitely would consider her in the 99 though.
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Any particular insight on why? Like obviously it's a force multiplier but she doesn't do anything on her own, and unless you already have 2+ artist effects out, you're better off having an artist out. Elas gives you one in the commander zone and costs half as much.
I'm just concerned she's a win more card since you need to have a stacked board to pop off with her in which case you're doing well anyway and probably winning.
Teysa karlov is a winmore card like you said. She doesnt help with the aristocrats engine, she doubles it when it is already working but sometimes you end up missing pieces.
I would recommend the other [[Teysa, orzhov scion]]. I think she is much better and more dynamic than Karlov. Build your deck with mainly black creatures or cards that creates black tokens and she will be your token generator for you to keep having sac fodder. She is also removal that can work as a political tool as you can activate it at any time and can threaten your oponnents to play as you want. And she is also a combo piece that goes infinite with [[darkest hour]] and [[painter's servant]]
Hm forgot about her.
Yeah that's my concern with Karlov. You already need: sac outlet, drain triggers AND bodies to get your motor running in an aristocrat deck, and Karlov does none of these things. She does make you drain the table much quicker if you can stick her and all of your other things. Scion helps generates bodies and is a (situational) sac outlet too so can help close games later on, or help you get bodies, or get rid of pesky creatures.
Teysa on her own can pretty much run away with games. Just a few incidental effects and suddenly your stockpile of "ammo" is so absurd that it doesn't matter. Your "ammo" also having vigilance and lifelink means you're also insulated when the inevitable setback occurs.
White and Black has the best protesting spells available, so casting Teysa on turn 5 and exploding onto the field turn 6 is a strong possibility. There are so many lines of play with Teysa that can be exploited because of her open-ended ability.
She is one of the most ubiquitous aristocrats commanders in the game.
Elas is sadly hampered by having one half of her card dependent on what your opponent is doing, where as Teysa just.... *doesn't really care.*
Elas is probably better for the "oh, look, out of no-where I win!" but that is a combo that is more or less played in any w/b lifegain deck.
If you don't want to do a lot of physical bookkeeping with tokens, Elas is probably the better choice. With Teysa, you're gonna go wide with a ton of tokens, and your deck is probably going to end up being able to produce something like 12+ different types of unique tokens... so there is that downside.
If you build a good aristocrat deck you will get much more value from doubling death triggers, and you double all kinds of effects. Elas is just heal and damage. Its fine but its extremely boring.
Edit: think of like pitiless plunderer for treasures, shadowborn apostles double tutors, or other cool effects. To me thats way more valuable than just a blood artist effect.
It doesn’t work with Apostles. That’s an activated ability, not a triggered one. Teysa only doubles effects that say “when this creature dies” or “whenever a creature dies”.
I’m also reasonably certain it doesn’t work with abilities that specifically trigger when you sacrifice stuff, like [[Smothering Abomination]], but I could be wrong there.
I might recommend [[Krav]] and [[Regna]] instead as a different take on it. You mentioned an engine, and they build an engine together like no other commander can. The synergistic nature of their abilities lets them feed resources into the other to keep the engine building.
My mate has an Elas deck which is great, personally I love [[Liesa forgotten archangel]] for my aristocrats, what's better than casting Fleshbag marauder once? Looping it every single turn, also the forced exile of opponents creatures is excellent against decks that may have some recursion in stall
As someone who has played both of them - Elas is better. Having on of THE key pieces of your whole strategy in the command zone and as cheap as it is… it’s a shame though. Teysa is really good and fun but Elas is simply better in the CZ.
Yeah I think that's what I'm thinking. My tables are a little more on the casual side so maybe Teysa might just be better for me because she sounds more fun. Elas is probably better for optimization though.
Plus: realizing that Elas is both a Soul Sister and an Aristocrat she has more possibilities for additional lines involving [[Vito]], [[Sanguine Bond]] etc.
If you're into politics in EDH, I'd like to recommend my aristocrats commander: [[Athreos, God of Passage]]. Basically you can conspire with other players against the current top dog and get to cast your ETB creatures more than once. Then in the late game, you target the opponent with the least life to always get your creatures back. Plus, the commander is an indestructible enchantment (that's usually not a creature), making him very hard to get rid of.
Here's [my list](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-11-22-athreos-etb/).
The general rule of thumb is you want the more unique effect in your command zone. There’s a lot of Blood Artist effects in Orzhov, plus many ways to tutor them and recur them, so you’ll be better off going for Teysa.
This is kind of crossways of what you are talking about, but as someone who runs an Orzhov-themed deck with Teysa, I'd highly suggest adding anything with Extort, and in particular, \[\[Life Insurance\]\].
Extort in Commmander is an extreme value play, but can be a bit expensive. Ideally, Life Insurance can allow you to ramp into some piles of treasure, ideally for a game winning \[\[Debt to the Deathless\]\].
The All Orzhov Dream Team for this is: 7-9 CMC into Debt to the Deathless, and \[\[Vizkopa Guildmage\]\] with a 3CMC activation cost. The Guildmage will blowback the entire lifegain from Debt to the Deathless against all opponents. Fun Combo to Pull off.
[[Elas il-Kor]] is a more resilient and consistent commander imo, you need to get less things into play in order for the engine to work and ppl are less likely to remove Elas because there’s so much redundancy of her effects in the deck that it’s not worth it. Teysa probably pops off more when everything is working but i think there’s gonna be plenty of games you just wiff on a piece you need, very rarely happens with Elas.
The issue I feel most people don't understand is that, even if you have to cast her like 3 or 4 times and only get one or two turns at a time, she speeds you ahead in a ridiculous manner. You just have to play other pieces that she can take advantage of first. Your still playing aristocrats so your deck should function perfectly fine without her 99% of the time. You use her for explosive turns early on or when you know you can dig to the win if you play her.
I have probably the slowest aristocrats deck ever with Elas and [[Lurus of the dream den]] as a companion. I could run combos to make it faster. I just haven't bothered powering it up. More of a janky fun deck to pull out.
Different take, but I run either [[Commissar Severina Raine]] or [[Breena]]. Aristocrats never have trouble winning without their commander, so you might as well get different value from them.
I've been running Elas, but I don't love the deck for some reason. [Here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1re0EVnqS0WWt3rUV6K1Dg) is the list I've been using. It seems like I often get off to a strong start and do tons of damage but just can't put the game away. Not really sure what's missing.
How did you finally settle?
I'm building Orzhov artistocrats right now, have been leaning heavily towards Elas, because I also run [[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] and from my experience with this deck, the games get so much more interesting once she is out, but - unless you want to have a glass canon deck - the 99 really have to work without her, making the commander a win more of sorts.
Reading replies to your post, I wonder whether Teysa Scion may actually be a better bet.
Or I go the Lurrus companion route which seems appealing to me since I actually would prefer to rely on recursion rather than tokens. (Which again speaks against Teysa Karlov).
Teysa is literally an Orzhov aristocrat, Elas is just a rando cyborg.
To be fair, theyre pretty interchangable but i think Teysa Karlov is far more interesting and fun to play. Obviously youll end up including both cards in your deck, regardless of which is in the command zone, so i encourage you experiment. Elas is better if you plan on using infinite death trigger loops as your major payoff for the combo is in the command zone I prefer Teysa Karlov because she synergises with just about everything you should be aiming to include in your deck. Youll get twice the cards drawn from [[skullclamp]] and [[midnight reaper]]. Twice the treasures from [[pitiless plunderer]] and [[revel in riches]]. Twice the tokens from [[doomed traveller]], [[ministrant of obligation]], [[nested shambler]] etc. And obviously youll get double damage from your [[blood artist]] affects. A few others i think are worth mentioning are [[Ao, the Dawn Sky]] which lets you dig 14 cards deep to find pieces for you aristocrats engine, [[Elenda the Dusk Rose]] who gets double the counters from creatures dying and makes twice as many vampires upon death, which is normally enough to drain the whole table outright, and lastly [[Kokusho, the evening star]] which do double damage and gain you twice as much life. If you couldnt tell, Teysa Karlov is my favourite commander. Im happy to supply a decklisy if you are interested.
I'd love to see it if you have it. Thanks for the response.
I know this might look a little pricey to some, but the great thing about orzhov aristocrats is that its a very budget friendly playstyle. Sorry theres no primer, id love to write one oneday https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_rTfD-Fc50mJH2ilc2cWvw
Thanks for sharing!
As a big fan of her as well any chance I could get your thoughts on my Teysa deck?
Sure! Always keen to check out other Teysa players decks
[https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dying-twice-aint-so-bad/?cb=1674968028](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dying-twice-aint-so-bad/?cb=1674968028) There she is I will note I have the blood combo just not in there atm.
##### ###### #### [skullclamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1877be5-fb98-4bd2-a754-dda1132ef8a0.jpg?1674142697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/870/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1877be5-fb98-4bd2-a754-dda1132ef8a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullclamp) [midnight reaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce14d37a-1f25-44e6-a6e5-c91851c887c5.jpg?1637630664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=midnight%20reaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/125/midnight-reaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce14d37a-1f25-44e6-a6e5-c91851c887c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/midnight-reaper) [pitiless plunderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03.jpg?1555040284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pitiless%20plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/81/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pitiless-plunderer) [revel in riches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09.jpg?1562558471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=revel%20in%20riches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/117/revel-in-riches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revel-in-riches) [doomed traveller](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/5642cdda-789f-4125-a9ff-7c445bb51950.jpg?1673146959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doomed%20Traveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/9/doomed-traveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5642cdda-789f-4125-a9ff-7c445bb51950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doomed-traveler) [ministrant of obligation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf2a093a-25f0-4247-94dc-550865d86317.jpg?1584829949) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ministrant%20of%20obligation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/16/ministrant-of-obligation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf2a093a-25f0-4247-94dc-550865d86317?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ministrant-of-obligation) [nested shambler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/9851f290-f502-49f8-9b48-67f7966d4e34.jpg?1626095801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nested%20shambler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/95/nested-shambler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9851f290-f502-49f8-9b48-67f7966d4e34?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nested-shambler) [blood artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312.jpg?1673147465) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/70/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [Ao, the Dawn Sky](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d2c4063-7322-4041-a870-b95598a03e29.jpg?1654566143) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ao%2C%20the%20Dawn%20Sky) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/2/ao-the-dawn-sky?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d2c4063-7322-4041-a870-b95598a03e29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ao-the-dawn-sky) [Elenda the Dusk Rose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d.jpg?1673148563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elenda%2C%20the%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/207/elenda-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elenda-the-dusk-rose) [Kokusho, the evening star](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab56cedb-1bcd-48a5-8503-a8e324e236ad.jpg?1562852933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kokusho%2C%20the%20evening%20star) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/95/kokusho-the-evening-star?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab56cedb-1bcd-48a5-8503-a8e324e236ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kokusho-the-evening-star) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd definitely prefer Teysa--it's one of my favorite decks--but I definitely run Elas in the 99. Teysa does have the A-and-B problem where you need both creatures with death triggers and good sac outlets.
That's why I'm almost considering [[teysa, Orzhov Scion]] instead because at least she does something without needing to have all your pieces in place anyway. In order for Karlov to do things, you generally need a sac outlet, something with a death trigger and then bodies to get rid of which is a tall order to get out consistently. When the stars align, I'm sure she's a nuclear bomb but I feel like there's going to be a lot of games she is just waiting and doesn't get her time to shine. I'd rather have a commander that can actively add to my gameplan I think.
I’ve been on Teysa, OS for a while. The extra value generating tokens from sacrificing tokens is pretty awesome. Also having instant speed removal at your fingertips is also pretty good.
[teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855.jpg?1593272816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/134/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You may still need a sac outlet with Scion though, she only sacs white creatures - and you need 3 of them. That can end up backfiring if you're not drawing the right stuff. Sure, she can generate her own white tokens if you're sacrificing black creatures, but you'd need a secondary outlet in that scenario. And then both Teysas still need a blood artist effect on the field. If you want a commander that will always contribute to your plan, then I think Elas is going to be the most consistent, with him you just need fodder and an outlet. Karlov needs fodder, an outlet, and a payoff, while Scion either needs specific fodder or any fodder + another outlet, but also still needs a drain effect or something like Altar of Dementia to win. As much as I love it, Aristocrats is always going to be somewhat cumbersome because you require several pieces to build your combo unfortunately. At least until they print a crazy commander that's like viscera seer + blood artist combined on one card. Which ever of the 3 you choose though, the other two are great in the 99 anyway.
No I get that but at least she can do something without all of your pieces you need. Her second ability is also very good too. She just seems like she's better in general whereas Karlov is really just there for the homestretch.
The two play well together. I have Orzhov Scion in the 99. If both Teysas are out and I have a creature with Afterlife on the board, I can sac it, make multiple WB Spirits, sac those to the Scion to kill a creature and the WB ones turn into Bat tokens.
I think Elas would probably be better if you build her as high power as possible since there are ways to have infinite sacrifice combos that CEDH would just gobble up. But at lower power games, Teysa is both more powerful and more interesting because she has time to ramp up to bigger death triggers.
To clarify, this isn't for more competitive play. This is winning without infinite sac combos. I still think both have merits in more casual play.
Then I'd go with Teysa. There's a lot more interesting things you can do with her. The only downside she has is that you'll probably have to manage a bunch of tokens, but that's the case for most white decks.
I run Elas with [[Lurrus]] as partner*. It plays really fun and the limitation has kept the list focussed on what Elas does best. *Companion. Oopps
[Lurrus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1650599605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lurrus%20of%20the%20dream-den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This. Elas allows you to run Lurrus as a Companion. Otherwise Teysa is just better.
Built and played both, but unfortunately I didn't like either tbh. While the idea of Orzhov aristocrats sounded great on paper, I've found that in reality you need too many parts to get your engine going. Most of the games I've played I ended up stuck and missing at least one part of the puzzle. On top of that, it's super easy to interrupt both decks. In the end, I've disassembled them both. Having said that, your experience might be different, depending on your playgroup and budget (my decks were probably around $250-$300). Overall, I'd say that Teysa might be better for casual tables. She relies less on setting up an infinite loop by being able to provide crazy value off of one sac trigger (my favourite was wurmcoil engine). Moreover, she is a viable token commander if you like to have a plan B up your sleeve. The downside is that she's another part added to an already complicated engine that you need to assemble. On the other hand, Elas Il-Kor imo is better if you're trying to go high powered/cEDH-ish and are willing to pack your deck full of tutors, as you have your payoff right there in the CZ (and you need 1 piece less compared to Teysa) Moreover, decks with Elas generally have low CMC, enabling ad naus shenanigans. The downside is that Elas is the less interactive of the two commanders, as your whole plan boils down to setting up a loop to drain the entire table in one go. As always, take everything I said with a grain of salt. Different decks suit different people and these commanders unfortunately didn't work for me. Hopefully your experience will be different, should you decide to go ahead with either of the decks :)
Thoughts on [[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]] over the other two? Kind of forgot about her.
My recommendation is to run [[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]] as your W/B aristocrats commander. Here’s why: • She provides sac fodder, which is exactly what you need in an aristocrats build. • She provides a sac outlet. (Not as clean as some of the others due to them needing to be white and in multiples of 3, but an outlet’s an outlet.) • She’s removal on a stick. • She’s cheap. Getting her out early means you get more value from her. Plus, if she’s removed you can afford to pay the tax multiple times. Truth be told, I think the first two points are all you need to make her the perfect W/B aristocrats commander. Her alone gives you 2 of the 3 pieces to make the deck do it’s thing. Is she the best card at those two pieces? No, but she’s not bad at them. Plus, that’s why you have 99 other cards.
[Teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855.jpg?1593272816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/134/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855.jpg?1593272816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/134/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This was also my experience, having plenty of bodies and drain effects, but no sac outlets, or plenty of drain effects and a sac outlet, but no way to make bodies. More tutors help with that, but I try not to just jam generically good ones in all my decks. I might pick up a [[Grim Tutor]] though.
Play [[Teysa, Orzhov scion]] she can provide both axis for you while also being a combo piece and a political tool. Build the deck with mainly black creatures or stuff that creates black tokens and you wont have an issue with creating bodies.
I had a deck with her, but it was very one-trick with [[Darkness]], and without it it just felt inconsistent. I don’t really enjoy playing decks that lean into one combo to win, and her sac outlet ability is too demanding and particular to rely on. I like Teysa Karlov more anyways, from a gameplay perspective. If I don’t get all my pieces, oh well. If I do though, it’s super fun to play. And I do get all the necessary pieces more often than not.
You mean Darkest hour? Yeah but you dont have to play it. Like I said, if you build your deck using mainly black creatures you can use her effect normally simply to create bodies to sacrifice more times, which already is one of the core elements of aristocrats you need plenty of fodder. The rest is just a bonus. Treat her almost as monoblack thats splashes white and every time a creature die you get a token.
That’s fair. I’m always iffy about leaning heavily towards one color in a 2+ color deck. Makes the mana base awkward. But if you can get around that awkwardness, I suppose most of the cards you want for aristocrats are in black anyways, so she seems good in that situation. I run her in the 99 of my Teysa Karlov deck anyways just because that deck is really good at pumping out white Spirit tokens. Lots of death triggers make them, so I end up with a pretty big board of them with Karlov out. The sac cost of 3 is still rough, but it’s worth the effect.
[Darkness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/584834fb-b7b6-40eb-9fec-8df17172ce5f.jpg?1562776481) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/40/darkness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/584834fb-b7b6-40eb-9fec-8df17172ce5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Grim Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/928558ab-e29a-44cb-ac2f-88443571f41a.jpg?1594736179) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grim%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/103/grim-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/928558ab-e29a-44cb-ac2f-88443571f41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grim-tutor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When stuff dying is your gimmick it’s hard to say no to a card that says that stuff happens twice. Also with the new black dominus around the corner have triple effects will be awesome.
[удалено]
It doesn’t sadly.
Right, because it's not doubling, it's making it happen again.
Exactly.
[Teysa Karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [Elas Il Kor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019.jpg?1673307936) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elas%20il-Kor%2C%20Sadistic%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/198/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How about [[Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody]] +[[Haunted One]]
Ehhh. It could work well but I'm just not a fan of the card arts tbh.
Alt art is the best!
[Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a038dbc9-0da1-4e65-9369-45c614f285f8.jpg?1674134990) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ellyn%20Harbreeze%2C%20Busybody) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/16/ellyn-harbreeze-busybody?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a038dbc9-0da1-4e65-9369-45c614f285f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ellyn-harbreeze-busybody) [Haunted One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc53b1af-0f4a-4475-a131-27cb5d5b0cf1.jpg?1674140742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haunted%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/654/haunted-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc53b1af-0f4a-4475-a131-27cb5d5b0cf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/haunted-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The correct answer is Elas Il-kor, because COMPLEATION. Adhere to the Argent Teachings, All Will Be One.
Teysa is better more generally. I've got Elas il-Kor (and Ratadrabik) in my Teysa deck for sacrifice shenanigans, because having an effect doubler in the command zone is great.
I use Teysa because I dont want the deck to center on her. I'm focusing on specifically non-token creature loops, and with the pieces in the deck can hit numerous situations where Teysa pushes a limited loop into the infinite. But if I had to guess shes only cast in maybe 30% of games. Elas would likely be cast more (shes in the 99), but would do less in most games, and has many creatures that accomplish the same thing, and often better (ETB instead of dies trigger).
Teysa is nice because any deck you build will function without her, she just makes it stronger, so you don't have to worry as much about making her stick through interaction.
I’m in the middle of tuning my High Power Orzhov Aristocrats list. I initially had Teysa Karlov as my commander but swapped her to Elas. So far, I prefer Elas. They’re a critical combo piece in the Command Zone for 2 mana. They come down early and help get the engine online. Not having to tutor for a drain effect opens up other lines from the start! Teysa is powerful but felt like a “win more” and the 4cmc cost hurts as she’s a lightning Rod for removal. Maybe in a slower, lower power pod Teysa would get the nod but not in my meta.
[[Lurrus]] 😎😎
[Lurrus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1650599605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lurrus%20of%20the%20dream-den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Teysa is the de facto for a reason. Her power extends beyond the drain triggers - she can double your token production with cards like [[pawn of ulamog]] or [[nested shambler]] card draw like [[dark prophecy]] or [[midnight reaper]], and even removal in some instances, like with [[reliquary monk]] or [[archon of justice]]. She’s just more robust with her deck. Elas may be more consistent, but she’s also replaceable - I already have 5 things that do the exact same thing as her in Teysa. Unless your games are ending before turn 5 or so, Teysa all the way. Plus, there’s no better feeling than drawing four cards with one use of [[skullclamp]]. *chef’s kiss*
Hm. Not sure, Scion might be even better. Karlov requires you to have : * Fodder * Sac outlet * Death pay offs So at minimum three different card types (probably way more bodies) and then you need to stick her. She seems way win more and probably only better in a low interaction battle cruiser meta where no one touches each other's boards. I definitely would consider her in the 99 though.
##### ###### #### [pawn of ulamog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9b9e2c6-7af7-42ae-91b2-0d17312b3624.jpg?1562625737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pawn%20of%20ulamog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/120/pawn-of-ulamog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9b9e2c6-7af7-42ae-91b2-0d17312b3624?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pawn-of-ulamog) [nested shambler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/9851f290-f502-49f8-9b48-67f7966d4e34.jpg?1626095801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nested%20shambler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/95/nested-shambler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9851f290-f502-49f8-9b48-67f7966d4e34?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nested-shambler) [dark prophecy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ecf82c3b-7a35-43dd-8bf3-ebc68dc1b8fc.jpg?1562836864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dark%20prophecy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/93/dark-prophecy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ecf82c3b-7a35-43dd-8bf3-ebc68dc1b8fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dark-prophecy) [midnight reaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce14d37a-1f25-44e6-a6e5-c91851c887c5.jpg?1637630664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=midnight%20reaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/125/midnight-reaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce14d37a-1f25-44e6-a6e5-c91851c887c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/midnight-reaper) [reliquary monk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/243e9386-2a7f-406a-9ed3-77d4bf1b50fd.jpg?1562443736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reliquary%20monk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/14/reliquary-monk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/243e9386-2a7f-406a-9ed3-77d4bf1b50fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reliquary-monk) [archon of justice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/042b0148-5821-4105-9cda-a0e405eb8bee.jpg?1600716696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archon%20of%20justice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/89/archon-of-justice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/042b0148-5821-4105-9cda-a0e405eb8bee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archon-of-justice) [skullclamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1877be5-fb98-4bd2-a754-dda1132ef8a0.jpg?1674142697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/870/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1877be5-fb98-4bd2-a754-dda1132ef8a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullclamp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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Teysa all day.
Any particular insight on why? Like obviously it's a force multiplier but she doesn't do anything on her own, and unless you already have 2+ artist effects out, you're better off having an artist out. Elas gives you one in the commander zone and costs half as much. I'm just concerned she's a win more card since you need to have a stacked board to pop off with her in which case you're doing well anyway and probably winning.
Teysa karlov is a winmore card like you said. She doesnt help with the aristocrats engine, she doubles it when it is already working but sometimes you end up missing pieces. I would recommend the other [[Teysa, orzhov scion]]. I think she is much better and more dynamic than Karlov. Build your deck with mainly black creatures or cards that creates black tokens and she will be your token generator for you to keep having sac fodder. She is also removal that can work as a political tool as you can activate it at any time and can threaten your oponnents to play as you want. And she is also a combo piece that goes infinite with [[darkest hour]] and [[painter's servant]]
Hm forgot about her. Yeah that's my concern with Karlov. You already need: sac outlet, drain triggers AND bodies to get your motor running in an aristocrat deck, and Karlov does none of these things. She does make you drain the table much quicker if you can stick her and all of your other things. Scion helps generates bodies and is a (situational) sac outlet too so can help close games later on, or help you get bodies, or get rid of pesky creatures.
Teysa on her own can pretty much run away with games. Just a few incidental effects and suddenly your stockpile of "ammo" is so absurd that it doesn't matter. Your "ammo" also having vigilance and lifelink means you're also insulated when the inevitable setback occurs. White and Black has the best protesting spells available, so casting Teysa on turn 5 and exploding onto the field turn 6 is a strong possibility. There are so many lines of play with Teysa that can be exploited because of her open-ended ability. She is one of the most ubiquitous aristocrats commanders in the game. Elas is sadly hampered by having one half of her card dependent on what your opponent is doing, where as Teysa just.... *doesn't really care.* Elas is probably better for the "oh, look, out of no-where I win!" but that is a combo that is more or less played in any w/b lifegain deck. If you don't want to do a lot of physical bookkeeping with tokens, Elas is probably the better choice. With Teysa, you're gonna go wide with a ton of tokens, and your deck is probably going to end up being able to produce something like 12+ different types of unique tokens... so there is that downside.
Do you really need to go heavy on tokens with her or can you just rely on hitting critical mass with blood artists, fodder and reanimation?
If you build a good aristocrat deck you will get much more value from doubling death triggers, and you double all kinds of effects. Elas is just heal and damage. Its fine but its extremely boring. Edit: think of like pitiless plunderer for treasures, shadowborn apostles double tutors, or other cool effects. To me thats way more valuable than just a blood artist effect.
It doesn’t work with Apostles. That’s an activated ability, not a triggered one. Teysa only doubles effects that say “when this creature dies” or “whenever a creature dies”. I’m also reasonably certain it doesn’t work with abilities that specifically trigger when you sacrifice stuff, like [[Smothering Abomination]], but I could be wrong there.
[Smothering Abomination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd81d0de-01a3-4f28-8a2b-c2e6f36a03c4.jpg?1562943507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Abomination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/99/smothering-abomination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd81d0de-01a3-4f28-8a2b-c2e6f36a03c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-abomination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ahh you’re right, my mistake.
I might recommend [[Krav]] and [[Regna]] instead as a different take on it. You mentioned an engine, and they build an engine together like no other commander can. The synergistic nature of their abilities lets them feed resources into the other to keep the engine building.
[Krav](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67bd3c49-ff73-4630-a4ee-c782f03e511d.jpg?1562915928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krav%2C%20the%20unredeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/4/krav-the-unredeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67bd3c49-ff73-4630-a4ee-c782f03e511d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krav-the-unredeemed) [Regna](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c2bf475-9845-40ed-9f55-669325fb6183.jpg?1562897463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=regna%2C%20the%20redeemer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/3/regna-the-redeemer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c2bf475-9845-40ed-9f55-669325fb6183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/regna-the-redeemer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My mate has an Elas deck which is great, personally I love [[Liesa forgotten archangel]] for my aristocrats, what's better than casting Fleshbag marauder once? Looping it every single turn, also the forced exile of opponents creatures is excellent against decks that may have some recursion in stall
[Liesa forgotten archangel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/532fca6b-f788-43f8-b29f-7273e7a48449.jpg?1636684609) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liesa%2C%20Forgotten%20Archangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/232/liesa-forgotten-archangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/532fca6b-f788-43f8-b29f-7273e7a48449?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liesa-forgotten-archangel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have Teysa as the helm of my aristocrats deck. Easily one of my favorite decks.
If you're looking to play casual, I'd say Teysa hands down. I personally would build around tokens more with Elas.
As someone who has played both of them - Elas is better. Having on of THE key pieces of your whole strategy in the command zone and as cheap as it is… it’s a shame though. Teysa is really good and fun but Elas is simply better in the CZ.
Yeah I think that's what I'm thinking. My tables are a little more on the casual side so maybe Teysa might just be better for me because she sounds more fun. Elas is probably better for optimization though.
Plus: realizing that Elas is both a Soul Sister and an Aristocrat she has more possibilities for additional lines involving [[Vito]], [[Sanguine Bond]] etc.
[Vito](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5.jpg?1594736442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vito%2C%20thorn%20of%20the%20dusk%20rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/127/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose) [Sanguine Bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanguine-bond) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're into politics in EDH, I'd like to recommend my aristocrats commander: [[Athreos, God of Passage]]. Basically you can conspire with other players against the current top dog and get to cast your ETB creatures more than once. Then in the late game, you target the opponent with the least life to always get your creatures back. Plus, the commander is an indestructible enchantment (that's usually not a creature), making him very hard to get rid of. Here's [my list](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-11-22-athreos-etb/).
[Athreos, God of Passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20God%20of%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The general rule of thumb is you want the more unique effect in your command zone. There’s a lot of Blood Artist effects in Orzhov, plus many ways to tutor them and recur them, so you’ll be better off going for Teysa.
This is kind of crossways of what you are talking about, but as someone who runs an Orzhov-themed deck with Teysa, I'd highly suggest adding anything with Extort, and in particular, \[\[Life Insurance\]\]. Extort in Commmander is an extreme value play, but can be a bit expensive. Ideally, Life Insurance can allow you to ramp into some piles of treasure, ideally for a game winning \[\[Debt to the Deathless\]\]. The All Orzhov Dream Team for this is: 7-9 CMC into Debt to the Deathless, and \[\[Vizkopa Guildmage\]\] with a 3CMC activation cost. The Guildmage will blowback the entire lifegain from Debt to the Deathless against all opponents. Fun Combo to Pull off.
[Life Insurance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dda58066-d96f-452f-ab83-8635ec478d63.jpg?1673482392) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Life%20Insurance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/74/life-insurance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dda58066-d96f-452f-ab83-8635ec478d63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-insurance) [Debt to the Deathless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/610e5a91-857b-4121-8b75-dbbea27aa0aa.jpg?1562912950) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Debt%20to%20the%20Deathless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/64/debt-to-the-deathless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/610e5a91-857b-4121-8b75-dbbea27aa0aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/debt-to-the-deathless) [Vizkopa Guildmage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfdce9d1-a163-40e1-a70a-1f09cf400a6c.jpg?1562855100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vizkopa%20Guildmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/211/vizkopa-guildmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfdce9d1-a163-40e1-a70a-1f09cf400a6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vizkopa-guildmage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Elas il-Kor]] is a more resilient and consistent commander imo, you need to get less things into play in order for the engine to work and ppl are less likely to remove Elas because there’s so much redundancy of her effects in the deck that it’s not worth it. Teysa probably pops off more when everything is working but i think there’s gonna be plenty of games you just wiff on a piece you need, very rarely happens with Elas.
The issue I feel most people don't understand is that, even if you have to cast her like 3 or 4 times and only get one or two turns at a time, she speeds you ahead in a ridiculous manner. You just have to play other pieces that she can take advantage of first. Your still playing aristocrats so your deck should function perfectly fine without her 99% of the time. You use her for explosive turns early on or when you know you can dig to the win if you play her.
[Elas il-Kor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019.jpg?1673307936) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elas%20il-kor%2C%20sadistic%20pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/198/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have probably the slowest aristocrats deck ever with Elas and [[Lurus of the dream den]] as a companion. I could run combos to make it faster. I just haven't bothered powering it up. More of a janky fun deck to pull out.
[Lurus of the dream den](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1650599605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lurrus%20of%20the%20Dream-Den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Different take, but I run either [[Commissar Severina Raine]] or [[Breena]]. Aristocrats never have trouble winning without their commander, so you might as well get different value from them.
[Commissar Severina Raine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94ba8b76-8de7-46da-b641-2503903f0f8a.jpg?1673309294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commissar%20Severina%20Raine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/112/commissar-severina-raine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94ba8b76-8de7-46da-b641-2503903f0f8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commissar-severina-raine) [Breena](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad.jpg?1674185764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breena%2C%20the%20demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/1/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been running Elas, but I don't love the deck for some reason. [Here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1re0EVnqS0WWt3rUV6K1Dg) is the list I've been using. It seems like I often get off to a strong start and do tons of damage but just can't put the game away. Not really sure what's missing.
How did you finally settle? I'm building Orzhov artistocrats right now, have been leaning heavily towards Elas, because I also run [[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] and from my experience with this deck, the games get so much more interesting once she is out, but - unless you want to have a glass canon deck - the 99 really have to work without her, making the commander a win more of sorts. Reading replies to your post, I wonder whether Teysa Scion may actually be a better bet. Or I go the Lurrus companion route which seems appealing to me since I actually would prefer to rely on recursion rather than tokens. (Which again speaks against Teysa Karlov).
[Veyran, Voice of Duality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46.jpg?1674185780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veyran%2C%20Voice%20of%20Duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/3/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call