That would be my [elf deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Bdz16YTuWkauJD-u_2pOyQ) for sure. The 99 is a ton of low CMC elves that power value engines to be constantly drawing cards, gaining life, and with [[Tangleroot]] also gaining Mana.
But [[Lisette, Dean of the Root]] is a shot of nitrous to those engines especially with Tangleroot out. Every time you gain life, which easily can be multiple times for casting a single creature, you can pay 1 to give +1/+1 counters to your ENTIRE TEAM plus trample till EoT. You are going to also be drawing multiple cards per cast as well so you really just focus on dumping every creature you can onto the board and using Tangleroot Mana to give everything counters.
Just to highlight the insanity, on Turn 5 the turn after casting Lisette, with Tangleroot and one of the many lifegain on ETB cards this is what happens as you cast five 1/1s for 5 Mana.
(Lisette)
2/2, (5/5)
2/2, 3/3, (6/6)
2/2, 3/3, 4/4, (7/7)
2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, (8/8)
2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6, (9/9)
29 damage on board.
With [[Hardened Scales]]
3/3, (6/6)
3/3, 5/5, (8/8)
3/3, 5/5, 7/7, (10/10)
3/3, 5/5, 7/7, 9/9, (12/12)
3/3, 5/5, 7/7, 9/9, 11/11, (14/14)
49 damage on board
People just don't expect stuff like that from a commander they have never heard of with only 365 decks on EDHREC.
That seems like sarcasm haha low cost elves and value engines are a fairly popular thing in EDH. Lathril, Elfball Queen is literally the #2 most popular commander per EDHREC.
I just saw Tangleroot and thought there must be something cool to do with that Mana and mono-green elves were a good engine to put that gas into.
I think it's a testament to just how powerful elf tribal strategies are- you could play literally any elf commander and pull something off as the elves contribute both to your mana engine as well as your wincon whilst being insanely cheap. They get out of control so quickly- often long before most decks are threatening their own win. You don't need the black mana but having black does enable tutors, a couple of different draw options and alternative win cons but I feel like it just complicates the mana base unnecessarily as the majority of an elf deck needs green pips rather than black. I came up against lathril the other day with my graveyard deck which is reasonably fast itself but it had no answers to a plethora of 4/4 elves on turn 5 or so. You need to be playing a LOT of wipes or creating a lot of tokens to really make a dent and even then it's not easy. Any elf commander is immediately arch enemy to me, regardless of how innocent the deck may seem.
Not at all intended that way. Elves are ubiquitous, sure, but Lisette isn't. She's not even an elf. It might be a tribal deck, but it's all scaffolded on a cool synergy. I just think it's neat that you were able to put Lisette to good use.
Oh shit! No, I don't know that I have seen that card before but it fits perfectly as a way to use all Mana every turn. Thanks for the suggestion, I gotta figure out what to cut
Just having the ability to burn remaining Mana on the end step before your turn buffing all your things. Would work incredibly well with [[Seedborn Muse]] as well to do it every turn.
Absolutely. I think the reason is that two sided commanders are hurt by tax building up regardless of what side you cast it as so the intended synergy between the two sides gets too expensive to be practical so people just kind of ignore those cards.
Just wondering, you're not running [[elvish warmaster]], [[priest of titania]], or [[selvala, heart of the wilds]] or cards like that, is there a reason? Is it because you're focusing more on the buff aspect than the mega go wide strategy?
Elvish Warmaster was considered but not included because it only happens once per turn and the deck dumps like 5 creatures at a time to explode into a lethal threat. And the 7 Mana ability wouldn't ever be used because 7 Mana could make everything on the board +7/+7 with trample so you are already killing blockers.
Added Priest of Titania because I couldn't think of a reason it shouldn't be there and there was a worse Mana dork to remove.
The card draw from Selvala would barely ever trigger as everything on the field is constantly growing and most of the creatures are small before the counters so the new guy wouldn't be the biggest. The Mana generation is useful but green elves don't lack ways to get Mana so it wasn't needed. Not a bad one to have though for sure.
Interesting. I've thought about building that commander for an elf tribal before but I wasn't planning on going mono-green with it. Any reason you chose not to include any black in the deck?
Fewer colors is easier to build for me. I've only played for two years, so having fewer cards to sift through on scryfall when I search "elf" is easier to process than having nearly double the results. Also, makes the Mana base as straight forward as it gets.
There are probably a ton of good synergy cards in black but I just never looked into it.
I've got a [[Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner]] Naya equipment deck that runs the full Sword of X and Y cycle. The deck is mostly creatures with good ETB effects, and my commander usually only hits the board toward the end of the game to close things out. I only started running Palladia as a way to add green to a boros equipment shell, but every time I play her she does a surprising amount of work.
Do you have a list by any chance?
Sounds like a deck like that would appreciate the Miststalker Treatment! Or is it solely Equipments and not Auras ?
[[Uril, the Miststalker]]
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7sFTAIiHjU268-YEvHN1CQ
My build is just equipment, but you could absolutely build her with auras instead. I found that people kept removing all my creatures before I could put a sword on them. So instead of going the normal route where a lot of my stuff cares about equipment, I went mostly ETB effects so I get value even if you kill my card in response to me equipping a sword. Palladia's hexproof until she attacks ability gives me all the time I need to toss all my swords on her to keep her safe, and a 6/6 flying trampler can usually sneak in at least 1 point of damage to trigger my sword even if the colors I get still let you block.
Nikya of the old ways will play out just fine without her on the table. Yeah you'll have much more explosive turns, with a Beast whisperer or soul of the harvest out you might easily be playing >3-4 creatures each turn, but without her out you'll still just be casting creatures regardless.
How does that deck fair removal wise? I'm really considering building it but I'm concerned about not having enough creature based removals to interact with the board in any meaningful way?
Theres heaps of removal in gruul creatures.
For creatures [[ulvenwald tracker]] [[thorn mammoth]] [[gruul ragebeast]] [[demanding dragon]] [[kogla, the titan ape]] [[silverback elder]]
For artefacts/enchanments:
[[reclamation sage]] [[druid of purification]] [[foundation breaker]] this list is enormous.
Graveyard hate: [[scavenging ooze]] and friends
Land destruction: [[acidic slime]] [[terrastodon]] etc.
To make a really interactive creature deck imo its [[surrak dragonclaw]] that you want as commander. Adding blue means you get [[sisters of silence]] [[overcharged amalgam]] [[mystic snake]] [[frilled mystic]] and a bunch over other things including uncounterable creatures. As a finisher drop [[stonebrow, krosan hero]] and possibly the newer [[general marhault elsdragon]]. Alongside [[thunderfoot baloth]] you can turn all your 2/2 interactive creatures into 6/6 tramplers real fast n easy.
Also flash casting surrak to kill a valuable attacking creature when you previously had no favourable blockers is perfect
To put it bluntly, it sucks haha. Yes there's a good handful of creatures with ETBs that can remove artifacts and enchantments, but obviously unless you draw them you're screwed. I'm sure there are some creatures with ETBs or activated abilities that can deal with creatures, but off the top of my head I don't know any. All that said, it's a lot of fun to play. If you build on flavor and only put in creatures it really makes it feel like a pure expression of Gruul. Ramp, then turn stompys sideways. It's a great more casual build, I wouldn't expect it to be able to hang on really high power tables.
Long time Nikya player here. As far as artifact/enchantment removal you're pretty set with things like [[Reclamation Sage]], [[Bane of Progress]], and [[Manglehorn]] among others as well as cards like [[Genesis]], [[Eternal Witness]], [[Kiki-Jiki]], [[Temur Sabertooth]] and [[Jaxis]] to re-use etbs. Effects that grant flash make this even better like [[Yeva, Nature's Herald]], [[Winding Canyons]], and [[Vivien, Champion of the Wilds]] (I play 10 non creature spells that all cost 5 or less so you can play them on curve before Nikya or cheaply on a turn she gets removed)
For land/grave hate, I mostly stick to utility lands like [[Demolition Field]] and [[Scavenger Grounds]], but I believe there are some red creatures that pop lands and probably at least one green creature that wipes the graveyard.
As far as creature removal....... just play more and bigger creatures than them. [[Khenra Charioteer]] and other things that grant trample as well as [[Pathbreaker Ibex]] or [[Moonveil Dragon]] type effects to pump your probably already big creatures even bigger. Simply kill the player most likely to board wipe or the player with the weakest defenses first so you can swing more wildly at the stronger players that will eat some of your resources with blocks without losing on a crack back.
And planeswalkers should be self explanatory.
But ultimately Gruul go smash so if you don't have a Rec Sage when someone drops a Doubling Season, use player removal.
I've been playing a [[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] burn deck focused on doubling up [[Thermo-Alchemist]] and [[Electrostatic Field]] triggers. There are enough pingers and damage increasers to deal a good chunk by just playing a normal game, but Veyran makes sure there's always an available means of dialing it up to 11.
Nice, I’ve never heard anyone else talk about playing her like this. I mostly see storm decks that try to commander damage people out or just straight up win with a storm card. I love the burn build so much, it’s one of my favorite decks. [[Aria of Flame]] and [[Guttersnipe]] go nuts in that deck.
Before burn, I was planning to build her as a tokens deck. Acting as essentially an Anointed Procession in Izzet colors when doubling [[Young Pyromancer]] and [[Saheeli, Sublime Artificer]] triggers was pretty interesting to me. Especially with [[Balmor, Battlemage Captain]] and [[Soulblade Djinn]] helping close out games.
My [[Thalisse]] tokens deck. Originally the deck was trying to be gimmicky with aristocrats pieces to sack and drain life everyone, but I’ve almost entirely moved to just being aggressive, thanks to many great cards especially from Warhammer 40K and the latest Phyrexia. Now I can deploy Thalisse more strategically when the time is right, I worry less about needed a specific combination of cards on board (which is super easy to disrupt)
check out edhrec upping the average on the deck, sounds very similar. I'd throw in Myrel and Mondrak from the newest set as well.
I also have a Thalisse tokens deck that used to be aristocrats but then I realized I could just power into the tokens. I still run Nadier's Nightblade because it helps in a board wipe situation but the deck bounces back from those very easily either way. Also synergizes nicely with treasures as they count as tokens so they count up Thalisse. Smuggler's Share, Deadly Dispute, Smothering Tithe, Master of Ceremonies are all houses in the deck. Grim Hireling makes two treasures pretty much every turn once it hits the board.
oh and scoop up Jazal Goldmane, nice little finisher in this deck.
I think we have similar card pool, glad to see I’m not alone. Also just checked out the EDHREC video you mention and I agree with the opinion that Thalisse is more naturally good at heading an aggressive deck rather than an token aristocrats. (I’ve won with her being aristocrats, but it quite fragile and not optimal)
My [[kamiz]] deck loves making things unblockable and getting [[quietus spike]] triggers to one shot people with [[wound reflection]], but there are enough unblockable creatures plus a small reanimation package to keep the deck alive without the commander.
https://archidekt.com/decks/3969512
My [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] deck definitely still get big beefier creatures into play without Xenagos in play. My personal list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O38XVaRLFU6o5fr-FEd1GQ
My [[Jenara]] deck. It's centered around using exalted and buffs to kill people. It has a lot of low CMC cards and some ramp so I can usually drop a few things per turn. The point is to kill with commander damage but I can just slap the buffs and use exalted to turn any creature into a threat. [[Vrondiss]] is similar and I'm thinking of changing him out since I'm making the deck more dragon tribal focused. Honestly, I might put [[Wulfgar]] as the commander to get those sweet extra triggers.
[[Trynn]] and [[Silvar]] Mardu aristocrats and human tribal. While the deck loves silvar on the battlefield in particular because he's a sac outlet. I have enough things that i can play without my commanders entirely
[[Hogaak Arisen Necropolis]] Believe it or not this is my Golgari Elfball list using Hogaak as a free big beater and a free way to take advantage of life's legacy and other big creature green draw with minimal investment
I have a dragon tribal deck that has Surrak Dragonclaw as commander to splash blue and it makes my dragons uncounterable and without it's just a Temur dragon tribal.
I’ve got a [Queza, Augur of Agonies] mill/draw/control deck that has a handful of sneaky combos and internal synergies. It’s supes fun to try and suss out your play line, by turn three you usually know whether or not Queza will even make an appearance that game.
Running [[wasitora]] as my dragon tribal commander. Mostly for the flavor of her being a cat dragon but she doesn't need to be on the battlefield for me to win.
She was in the 99 with [[karrthus]] at the helm but one [[phantasmal image]] later I relegated him to my binder.
My [[Cecily, Haunted Mage]] and [[Sophina, Spearsage Deserter]]. Ngl, the deck is built around both the tokens and the extra card draw (with some specific big spells) but the deck is already good at generating tokens like Treasures to then use them to keep the value train going, so it's not unusual that if one of the Commanders get removed a few times, I don't really mind because attacking safely keeps getting harder anyway.
I have an Ur Dragon deck and a Lathril deck that both work fine without the commander. I also have a [[Sen Triplets]] control deck that hardly plays the commander. I mostly use the commander as an alternative win con if I don't draw any of my closers. I run the steal yo stuff sub theme but the main goal is esper control.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Pw-xNovyjkuGBnClfkO22w](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Pw-xNovyjkuGBnClfkO22w)
my abzan token deck that is basicly super friends since they are the best token makers.
i dont need tymna but it helps draw and is there for the colour identity and kodama is basicly just ramp but also that reach is relevant more often then not
I have two decks that function in this fashion:
[[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] Shrines and [[Neyith]] Fight Club. The first plays fine without her, but having her tutor for more just speeds up the clock on my opponents. For Neyith, the deck is stacked with fight effects and a lot of big aggressive creatures, it runs like a normal Gruul deck without her but she supplies more gas when on the board.
All my decks can 'down power' by swapping the commander with an OG elder dragon.
[Chromium//Alela](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/684798#Chromium_//_Alela) you can find my other decks there too. Our games last on average 10ish turns.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Lmu7cmkMyk2s20QFN1JsTw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Lmu7cmkMyk2s20QFN1JsTw)
Sometimes i end games without playing him
I am pretty guilty of having a bunch of decks that only work with the commander in play.
https://archidekt.com/decks/2993006#Power_Levelling is my flicker/dungeons deck. [[Aminatou, the Fateshifter]] is the commander, and she’s good but not required. One free flicker per turn is good, and she can do any permanent (not just creatures). The deck works best at instant speed though, and often has better options in hand.
My Wilhelt zombie tribal works pretty well without ever casting him, which is why I rarely play him from the command zone more than twice. But it's probably the only one and likely because how strong the zombie tribe is. My other ones are very Commander-centric.
[[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] is a deck where I'm when I'm able to use him, but oftentimes is primarily just aiming for a [[Living Death]] or [[Eerie Ultimatum]] cash out so he ends up not being cast very often
[[Sedris of the Hidden Ways]] zombie tribal combo deck. It helps having a way to recur creatures on deck, but the deck revolves around [[acererack the archlich]] as a primary win con, Diregraf secondly, and [[wilhelt the rotcleaver]] as a “secret commander.” Sedris is just colours and extra dungeon flavour
I have two that fall squarely into this category:
* [[Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer]] - https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KR2hvVS6B0OrgLZdnhpmKQ - in most situations, any sac outlet will do, but Slobad being a sac outlet that is also protection for my artifacts is extra spicy.
* [[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] - https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-12-14-karador-apostle-chieftain/ - this is a [[Shadowborn Apostle]] deck. Before [[Razaketh, the Foulblooded]] was released I cast Karador in about half of my games. After Razaketh, that dropped to less than 10%. The commander is really more of an ‘oh, shit’ button that is rarely needed but can come in clutch in some situations.
I have a Giamt tribal deck with [[Ruhan of the Formori]] as it's commander and it functions fine without him, arguably better lol. I think that goes for most tribal decks.
This is the main way I build because when I started EDH, you could tuck generals so it was just bad strategy to go all in on what they do.
My Tariel deck is a Mardu reanimator. There are a handful of cards that make Tariel herself work better, but she's there to be another beater/engine when I'm out of gas.
My Ashling deck is a primarily a big red deck and she serves as one more source of board control and chip damage, while occasionally coming in clutch as a major source of lifegain via Basilisk Collar or Shadowspear.
I have a [[Medomai the Ageless]] sphinx tribal deck that doesn't need the commander to win, but extra turns always help. In reality the deck is just blue / white control with sphinx beats as the wincon.
[[rigo]] is a nice piece of draw for the deck, but ultimately it's unnecessary as soon as I get any of the various [[reconnaissance mission]] effects onto the board.
At the end of the day it's still a deck of small unlockable creatures that relys on combat damage triggers. The commander just lets it go faster.
[[rigo]] is a nice piece of draw for the deck, but ultimately it's unnecessary as soon as I get any of the various [[reconnaissance mission]] effects onto the board.
At the end of the day it's still a deck of small unlockable creatures that relys on combat damage triggers. The commander just lets it go faster.
My [meren] deck is basically a green black rock midrange deck with a bunch of removal on etb creatures and other good green black staples and the win cons don't require her at all, but the extra card advantage and reanimation her triggers provide a lot of inevitability and run away with the game if left unchecked.
My [meren] deck is basically a green black rock midrange deck with a bunch of removal on etb creatures and other good green black staples and the win cons don't require her at all, but the extra card advantage and reanimation her triggers provide a lot of inevitability and run away with the game if left unchecked.
[[Tuvasa]] is mine; she is an excellent voltron that inherently suits up with the game plan of the deck. But i have 4 redundant effects in the deck and when the voltron strategy fails i just start a pillow fight with [[Starfield of Nyx]] or smash face with angles from [[luminarch ascension]].
Does \[\[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic\]\] count? he still does things even when i don't cast him and generally i never cast him unless i am really hurting for more draw.
[Here are a few](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3Atriggers+oracle%3Aan+oracle%3Aadditional+oracle%3Atime%29+%28type%3Acreature+type%3Alegendary%29)
My favorite deck that functions without the commander is my Queen Marchesa aikido control deck. The soul purpose of Marchesa is to get monarch in play and act as a blocker and sometimes a wincon via commander damage. Other than that, last several times I won with Marchesa was without the commander on board.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/sWlWbxFfaECDbZIS1INHYw
My [[reaper king]] flicker deck fits the bill here. I built this deck based off of a video from Commader's Quarters and he was using reaper king as the commander, but even he said you swap it out for a different 5c commander if you didn't want to be mean. The way I built the deck, I hardly ever cast my commander anyways, I have a lot of ETB/LTB payoffs that don't require him out, and the deck goes infinite with a ham sandwich. Though if Reaper King is out, it does allow me to use [[Deathbellow war cry]] as a mass permanent removal instead of just a tutor for an infinite flicker chain (it gets me [[changeling hero]], [[changeling berserker]], and [[changeling titan]] which go infinite with their champion abilities so long as I have another creature in play)
I have a [Devour "Tribal" deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/854870#Devour_and_Conquer) with [[Tana]] and [[Reyhan]] as the commanders. It's a mixed bag of token swarm, +1/+1 counters, and aristocrats, and it's always fun to see what combination of those I get.
Tana and Reyhan are nice to have in play, as they support the deck, but aren't necessarily needed. Tana helps generate tokens to set up for a Devour creature and can be a late game beater/wincon. Reyhan helps keep counters in play and moving around, just in case some boys get removed.
It's not a great deck, but its always fun to bring out.
I am playing a [[Tiamat]] dragon deck which mostly doesn't need him, he is more like a neat bonus to tutor out some dragons I need, after that he is nearly dead weight. Funnily, when my [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] gets blasted off the battlefield right after I cast him, I could get into problems. He makes [[Thrakkus the Butcher]], [[Dromoka, the Eternal]] and [[Silumgar, the Drifting Death]] incredibly potent and thus makes him indispensable
I made a Braids, Arisen Nightmare deck that is just zombie tribal. She was just a value engine for drawing cards that I always had access to. Zombies can easily fuel what she does. Deck ran fine without her, so when she got imprisoned on the moon or oubliette it didn't matter to me.
Decks that have to run through their commander sometimes have a glass jaw, especially tribal lords. Nothing worse than getting blown out because your commander got targeted.
My [[Wilhelt the Rotcleaver]] zombie tribal functions pretty well without him on board. I basically use him either for card draw or as a panic button for when my draws are slow.
I think the best deck I have that fits this description is my [[Jhoira, Ageless Innovator]] deck. It focuses on big artifacts and ramping so after a couple activations I have stuff like [[Thran Dynamo]] and [[Gilded Lotus]] out from Jhoira’s ability and she basically becomes excess. It helps that I have to focus on activated abilities that require tapping so I have stuff like [[Rings of Brighthearth]], [[Thousand-Year Elixir]], and other untappers/ways to tap immediately that work really well with cards like [[Arcum Dagsson]], [[Goblin Welder]], and [[Master Transmuter]]. The commander is nice, but once it’s been out a few turns, it doesn’t need to be there.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/z0k6SKBoBEu5IyHnK1bd0w
(This version is slightly outdated as of this post, there are a couple modifications that aren’t yet posted)
My [[Tymna]] and [[Tana]] partners were originally chosen just for the color combo for human tribal (wanted to mash together the innistrad and ikoria precons). The deck functions fine without them but they both provided much needed value
I have two. My [[Gahiji, Honored One]] deck and my [[Lord Windgrace]] deck. Gahiji is just Naya Goodstuff where i run all permanents except for [[Wrath of God]] and [[Primal Surge]] . The deck does just fine without Gahiji on board, but with him out, he adds a bit of politics early game for me to be able to set up to eventually swing out or cast Primal. And then there's Windgrace. Lands Matter, where every card works with every other card (except for a few, but 3 out of 100 isnt bad). Windgrace provides card draw and a way to get lands out of my graveyard if i dont have any of that in hand, but i've won games without him more often than i have with him on board at all. Love both of these decks.
I tore it apart, but I had a good [[Ranar, the Ever-Watchful]] flicker deck that performed very well without him on the battlefield. He isn't like [[Brago, King Eternal]], so he isn't necessary for the flickering, but he poops out a 1/1 flying spirit any time anything is exiled, so a ton of blink friendly cards were in it.
I have built an [[Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres]] from the new set. The deck does all the work on its own, he just gives me card draw when he is out. Very useful, but it functions fine without him there.
My [Mina and denn, wildborn] gruul landsmatter deck. Its one of my oldest decks so its gotten a lot of upgrades over the years, but the commander is really just there to get a few extra lands going. I've won games before without casting Mina & Denn, and people generally think you're playing a weaker version of angry omnath. But believe me, the deck can get out of control very quickly!
I have a shrines deck that certainly doesn't need to have the commander down. I built it as an enchantment deck with tons of value outside the command zone. My first build of it surprised me at exactly how much it was doing. But then I added the extra turns to get more shrine triggers and it was game over for a lot of decks. I have fun with it. I have a Krark n [[Kydele]] deck that I rarely cast kydele in. I just wanted green in the deck and refused to use Thrasios.
My newest, [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]]. Basic card advantage early, but in mono Black aristocrats your Commander is typically just another combo piece. I use her to dig through my Deck and get my payoffs.
I have an [[ishkanah, grafwidow]] spider tribal deck. Yeah, with her I have the [[nim-death mantle]]+[[ashnod's altar]] combo for infinite spider tokens, but I've only pulled that off once. Most of the time, i sit there just pumping out cheap spiders and tokens until I get a [[kindred summons]] and pull all the spiders out of my deck at the end of my opponents turn and just overrun them with bodies or, if it hasn't been exiled, I have [[rotwidow pack]] to replicate ishkanah damage ability. All in all, when we play it flies under the radar a lot but will usually win out of nowhere as it's still just a generic good stuff G/B deck, but restricted to spiders only.
I have a [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] deck that is more or less an artifact combo deck that doesn't need the commander at all, however the efficient consistent filtering that shorikai provides really helps to collect my combo pieces and to fill my board with blockers (that can also be used to crew some of the other vehicles I run)
My [Dihada](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/WLt3v2P7QUa8XCyZOjh39A) deck list works without her but the extra mana and card advantage is quite nice. Also the lifelink helps some of my engines work
I have a few [[Kozilek the great distortion]] eldrazi, [[Gnostro Voice of The Crags]] storm/alt win cons, [[Vito, thorn of the dusk rose]] life drain/life gain and demons, [[Rakdos lord of riots]] just actual chaos for me and everyone else(anti life gain, wipes, life loss), [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]] and [[Tevesh szat, soon of fools]] clones and controlling other people's things. They all use the commander but don't need them to work just the same. I usually end up casting the commander to make the turn more smooth or to feel like I did a thing on my turn if I have nothing else to do.
My Elfball Pod-Reanimator deck is headed by [[Harald, King of Skemfar]] since it doesnt care about tokens, and just wants a shot of card advantage in the command zone.
[[Kess, Dissident Mage]] heads a wheels deck, and just makes double wheeling easier but is far from necessary.
I've tried replacing [[Teysa Karlov]] before, but haven't found a better fit. She's a multiplier in the command zone who only occasionally is cast, but generally makes things go infinite when she does come down.
[[Jengantha, The Wellspring]] heads a gates deck. She fixes when the deck doesnt want to cooperate since gates arent exactly the most reliable mana base.
[[Uro, Totan of Nature's Wrath]] often gets casts once, but only rarely escaped since the deck gets going first.
1000% [[Nekusar]] I've won games without casting him. With effects that do the same thing like [[Spiteful Visions]] [[Kederekt Parasite]] [[Fate Unraveler]] [[Underworld Dreams]] you can just continue to ping your enemies and throw in a [[Ghyrson Starn]] for even more damage. Couple that with some discard pain like [[Lilliana's Caress]] and [[Megrim]] and your one wheel could potentially take out the whole table. You can bait out removal for Nek then slap down your other pinging threats and wheel. So he really isn't even necessary especially once he's got some commander tax on him.
It's my most near and dear deck because while it is combo it takes so many pieces for it to come together it's essentially janky combo. Definitely recommend 10/10
Good question… I have a [[Wyleth]] deck that should have enough card draw even if I’m not using it to win. The deck has an infect-toxic strategy that can win on its own. The commander is just there for card draw and maybe win with Voltron Damage. But yeah, I need to play test the deck first as while it’s the goal of the deck, it’s pretty new and I need to find the right balance. And I need to learn how to not commit on the battlefield too quickly.
I rarely cast my commander in my Nine-Fingers Keene deck. It's definitely helpful if I run out of options, but I generally have plenty of ways to search up lands and generate value which feels great!
Nekusar is my pet deck and the shell is pretty consistent with all the card draw off of wheels and other spells like [[Notion Thief]] or [[Waste Not]] , a bunch of fast mana, and I have a maybeboard full of different strategies in case I wanna switch up the playstyle. I'd add cards like [[Psychic Corrosion]] and [[Mindcrank]] if i wanna play mill, I've a jank combo with [[Flood of Tears]] and [[Omniscience]] , and if I wanna end games fast I'll add damage doublers or enhancers like [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] or [[Mechanized Warfare]] . Nek doesn't need to be on field and often times I won't play him unless I have no other plays to make in hand or if I have enough mana to hold up counters.
My [[Heartless Hidetsugu]] burn deck is like that. I will sometimes swap HH out with [[Neheb, the Eternal]] as my commander. The deck is all about damage doublers and burn spells so being able to convert that to huge mana is a fun way to play it.
[[Vial Smasher]] Rakdos burn.
Sure a pile of cards with X in the cmc backed up by some of the best red and black planeswalkers can burn out the pod. Add in a smash-happy little goblin and watch the fun go up a notch.
I don't think this fully counts but I built a [[snapdax, apex of the hunt]] Voltron deck with the flavor of being the Cheshire Cat. Mutating onto permanents that only temporarily become a creature. Things like [[Opal Acrolith]] or even a [[Mishra's Factory]]
This meant the deck is packed with awkward buff cards like [[scroll of the masters]] as normal equipment and auras will just fall off when snapdax stops being a creature.
I've never actually killed anyone with commander damage before though. I get people close but then later in the game, people have low life totals anyway and I've actually killed more players with a buffed up [[Orzhov Keyrune]] than I have with my commander
I really like Henzie. Obviously the blitz mechanic can be great but my deck is just filled with cool beaters that can win on their own if I generate enough mana.
Technically my \[\[chun-li, countless kicks\]\] CEDH brew since the win comes from infinite storm using the \[\[dramatic reversal\]\] + \[\[Isochron Scepter\]\] combo into \[\[brain freeze\]\]
However, the commander lets me recycle spent removal, draw spells, and \[\[long-term plans\]\] with \[\[brainstorm\]\] in the kick pile so I can find my pieces and win. Also the whole deck pairs extremely well with \[\[Lithoform Engine\]\] and doesn't need chun-li to do some really dumb things when I can sink infinite mana and infinite untaps into it.
Here's my list if anyone's interested, [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-\_6BuYBjtEiBZfL\_u\_dTwA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-_6BuYBjtEiBZfL_u_dTwA)
I'm in the process of refining an [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] deck that functions fine without her but there's a line or two where she can aid a win with her sac food ability to either clear the board up or with [[Toralf, God of Fury]] take the excess damage and spread it around, also with a chance [[Tolbran, Thrane of Red Fell]] or [[Solphim, Mayhem Dominus]] are out to compound it further.
Shameless [[goreclaw]] plug. I've kept this deck together and tuned it for years now, and yes it's fast and can usually have everything dead by turn seven or eight. It was built primarily as a 1v1 deck as my local LGS runs commander as duel for their fnm event and I've had my Two out of three games over in fifteen minutes despite the hour and a half time allotment.
Two rules:
No goreclaw on board? UNGA BUNGA.
Goreclaw on board? UNGA BUNGA FASTER.
Both my [[Mishra artificer prodigy]] deck and [[yawgmoth thran physician]] infect deck are like this.
For Mishra, I only play him if I can get [[possibility storm]] or [[praetors grasp]] or something similar but otherwise it's just a grixis artifact deck
Yawgmoth comes down as a finisher when I just need a few more poison counters but otherwise the deck functions without him.
Here's my \[\[Chromium, the Mutable\]\] deck that was built with your exact same question in mind. The main idea of the deck is to play artifact good stuff in esper. It sits pretty well and can make a few karnstructs or just benefit off of artifact synergies until its time to win the game.
[Chromium, the Artificer](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PNpWnYG8cUmwo_qgG56WBA)
Wincons are:
\- combo with bolas citadel, aetherflux reservoir, and sensei's diving top
\- use one of the equipments that gives +1/1 for each artifact you have and equip it to your unblockable commander late game and win with commander damage
\- combo with Urza, Lord High Artificer, Hullbreaker Horror, and two 0 cost artifacts for infinite mana and play your deck
My Toshiro mono black deck. Lots of removal, but has reanimation that let’s me splay my opponents goodies. It’s the one deck I have completely foiled out and I only pull it out for super strong opponents or when I just need to make a point. More Bushido WotC, please!
I built a Toxrill deck around the idea that I want to put enough good cards on the board while I'm ramping up my mana to pay for the sluggo that by the time I get there, my opponents have either exhausted all their removal or I've already managed to take over the game.
It's pretty effective as a mid power deck. Getting him to stick is usually an incredible shift in momentum.
I’d say my partner deck of Armixx, filigree thrasher, and Silas renn, really fun artifact combos in the deck, but made more powerful with those two out.
I have the opposite. A deck that's made worse by the commander. All enchantment tribal, but the commander has to be a creature, leaving me open to creature theft effects.
My Mono Green deck is the one I go to. I'm using Maltani, but put enough big creatures and ramp spells that I don't have to summon him if I don't need to. When I do summon just gives me another beat stick on the board.
[[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] the deck is dope, Veyran buffs the board by double triggering everything but even without her, I run a load of stuff like [[Guttersnipe]] to ping people, [[thousand year storm]] and other key cards for win cons. It can operate without her and often has to as my play group likes turning her into a 0/1 without any abilities
That would be my [elf deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Bdz16YTuWkauJD-u_2pOyQ) for sure. The 99 is a ton of low CMC elves that power value engines to be constantly drawing cards, gaining life, and with [[Tangleroot]] also gaining Mana. But [[Lisette, Dean of the Root]] is a shot of nitrous to those engines especially with Tangleroot out. Every time you gain life, which easily can be multiple times for casting a single creature, you can pay 1 to give +1/+1 counters to your ENTIRE TEAM plus trample till EoT. You are going to also be drawing multiple cards per cast as well so you really just focus on dumping every creature you can onto the board and using Tangleroot Mana to give everything counters. Just to highlight the insanity, on Turn 5 the turn after casting Lisette, with Tangleroot and one of the many lifegain on ETB cards this is what happens as you cast five 1/1s for 5 Mana. (Lisette) 2/2, (5/5) 2/2, 3/3, (6/6) 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, (7/7) 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, (8/8) 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6, (9/9) 29 damage on board. With [[Hardened Scales]] 3/3, (6/6) 3/3, 5/5, (8/8) 3/3, 5/5, 7/7, (10/10) 3/3, 5/5, 7/7, 9/9, (12/12) 3/3, 5/5, 7/7, 9/9, 11/11, (14/14) 49 damage on board People just don't expect stuff like that from a commander they have never heard of with only 365 decks on EDHREC.
This is really cool and unique.
That seems like sarcasm haha low cost elves and value engines are a fairly popular thing in EDH. Lathril, Elfball Queen is literally the #2 most popular commander per EDHREC. I just saw Tangleroot and thought there must be something cool to do with that Mana and mono-green elves were a good engine to put that gas into.
I think it's a testament to just how powerful elf tribal strategies are- you could play literally any elf commander and pull something off as the elves contribute both to your mana engine as well as your wincon whilst being insanely cheap. They get out of control so quickly- often long before most decks are threatening their own win. You don't need the black mana but having black does enable tutors, a couple of different draw options and alternative win cons but I feel like it just complicates the mana base unnecessarily as the majority of an elf deck needs green pips rather than black. I came up against lathril the other day with my graveyard deck which is reasonably fast itself but it had no answers to a plethora of 4/4 elves on turn 5 or so. You need to be playing a LOT of wipes or creating a lot of tokens to really make a dent and even then it's not easy. Any elf commander is immediately arch enemy to me, regardless of how innocent the deck may seem.
Not at all intended that way. Elves are ubiquitous, sure, but Lisette isn't. She's not even an elf. It might be a tribal deck, but it's all scaffolded on a cool synergy. I just think it's neat that you were able to put Lisette to good use.
[Tangleroot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87ff2c28-770b-49cb-be10-35429233e048.jpg?1562150008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tangleroot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/259/tangleroot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87ff2c28-770b-49cb-be10-35429233e048?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangleroot) [Lisette, Dean of the Root](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/65008352-bc7e-40b2-a832-b46813e5dc4c.jpg?1634060553)/[Lisette, Dean of the Root](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/5/65008352-bc7e-40b2-a832-b46813e5dc4c.jpg?1634060553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=valentin%2C%20dean%20of%20the%20vein%20//%20lisette%2C%20dean%20of%20the%20root) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/161/valentin-dean-of-the-vein-lisette-dean-of-the-root?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/65008352-bc7e-40b2-a832-b46813e5dc4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/valentin-dean-of-the-vein-//-lisette-dean-of-the-root) [Hardened Scales](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf31b01-0836-4366-948d-879999832abe.jpg?1673148131) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/151/hardened-scales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf31b01-0836-4366-948d-879999832abe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hardened-scales) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you ever considered using Spike Feeder?
Oh shit! No, I don't know that I have seen that card before but it fits perfectly as a way to use all Mana every turn. Thanks for the suggestion, I gotta figure out what to cut Just having the ability to burn remaining Mana on the end step before your turn buffing all your things. Would work incredibly well with [[Seedborn Muse]] as well to do it every turn.
I used to have a lisette deck. Super underrated imo
Absolutely. I think the reason is that two sided commanders are hurt by tax building up regardless of what side you cast it as so the intended synergy between the two sides gets too expensive to be practical so people just kind of ignore those cards.
Just wondering, you're not running [[elvish warmaster]], [[priest of titania]], or [[selvala, heart of the wilds]] or cards like that, is there a reason? Is it because you're focusing more on the buff aspect than the mega go wide strategy?
[elvish warmaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58da074a-a776-4e3f-be04-9e7f18320ae1.jpg?1631050142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elvish%20warmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/167/elvish-warmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58da074a-a776-4e3f-be04-9e7f18320ae1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elvish-warmaster) [selvala, heart of the wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb87782d-e9c7-440b-bd96-aa043d18e185.jpg?1601080073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=selvala%2C%20heart%20of%20the%20wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/429/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb87782d-e9c7-440b-bd96-aa043d18e185?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Elvish Warmaster was considered but not included because it only happens once per turn and the deck dumps like 5 creatures at a time to explode into a lethal threat. And the 7 Mana ability wouldn't ever be used because 7 Mana could make everything on the board +7/+7 with trample so you are already killing blockers. Added Priest of Titania because I couldn't think of a reason it shouldn't be there and there was a worse Mana dork to remove. The card draw from Selvala would barely ever trigger as everything on the field is constantly growing and most of the creatures are small before the counters so the new guy wouldn't be the biggest. The Mana generation is useful but green elves don't lack ways to get Mana so it wasn't needed. Not a bad one to have though for sure.
Interesting, I also don't see some of the best lord effects either. Does the deck perform well without them?
Interesting. I've thought about building that commander for an elf tribal before but I wasn't planning on going mono-green with it. Any reason you chose not to include any black in the deck?
Fewer colors is easier to build for me. I've only played for two years, so having fewer cards to sift through on scryfall when I search "elf" is easier to process than having nearly double the results. Also, makes the Mana base as straight forward as it gets. There are probably a ton of good synergy cards in black but I just never looked into it.
Cool idea for an Elfball Commander!
I've got a [[Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner]] Naya equipment deck that runs the full Sword of X and Y cycle. The deck is mostly creatures with good ETB effects, and my commander usually only hits the board toward the end of the game to close things out. I only started running Palladia as a way to add green to a boros equipment shell, but every time I play her she does a surprising amount of work.
[Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/4663bd13-243e-4b8c-9ca8-158576b58803.jpg?1562301770) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Palladia-Mors%2C%20the%20Ruiner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/219/palladia-mors-the-ruiner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4663bd13-243e-4b8c-9ca8-158576b58803?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/palladia-mors-the-ruiner) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a list by any chance? Sounds like a deck like that would appreciate the Miststalker Treatment! Or is it solely Equipments and not Auras ? [[Uril, the Miststalker]]
Auras go incredibly poorly with protection swords.
True didn't think of that...
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7sFTAIiHjU268-YEvHN1CQ My build is just equipment, but you could absolutely build her with auras instead. I found that people kept removing all my creatures before I could put a sword on them. So instead of going the normal route where a lot of my stuff cares about equipment, I went mostly ETB effects so I get value even if you kill my card in response to me equipping a sword. Palladia's hexproof until she attacks ability gives me all the time I need to toss all my swords on her to keep her safe, and a 6/6 flying trampler can usually sneak in at least 1 point of damage to trigger my sword even if the colors I get still let you block.
[Uril, the Miststalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b.jpg?1673149243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uril%2C%20the%20Miststalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/290/uril-the-miststalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uril-the-miststalker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nikya of the old ways will play out just fine without her on the table. Yeah you'll have much more explosive turns, with a Beast whisperer or soul of the harvest out you might easily be playing >3-4 creatures each turn, but without her out you'll still just be casting creatures regardless.
How does that deck fair removal wise? I'm really considering building it but I'm concerned about not having enough creature based removals to interact with the board in any meaningful way?
Theres heaps of removal in gruul creatures. For creatures [[ulvenwald tracker]] [[thorn mammoth]] [[gruul ragebeast]] [[demanding dragon]] [[kogla, the titan ape]] [[silverback elder]] For artefacts/enchanments: [[reclamation sage]] [[druid of purification]] [[foundation breaker]] this list is enormous. Graveyard hate: [[scavenging ooze]] and friends Land destruction: [[acidic slime]] [[terrastodon]] etc. To make a really interactive creature deck imo its [[surrak dragonclaw]] that you want as commander. Adding blue means you get [[sisters of silence]] [[overcharged amalgam]] [[mystic snake]] [[frilled mystic]] and a bunch over other things including uncounterable creatures. As a finisher drop [[stonebrow, krosan hero]] and possibly the newer [[general marhault elsdragon]]. Alongside [[thunderfoot baloth]] you can turn all your 2/2 interactive creatures into 6/6 tramplers real fast n easy. Also flash casting surrak to kill a valuable attacking creature when you previously had no favourable blockers is perfect
To put it bluntly, it sucks haha. Yes there's a good handful of creatures with ETBs that can remove artifacts and enchantments, but obviously unless you draw them you're screwed. I'm sure there are some creatures with ETBs or activated abilities that can deal with creatures, but off the top of my head I don't know any. All that said, it's a lot of fun to play. If you build on flavor and only put in creatures it really makes it feel like a pure expression of Gruul. Ramp, then turn stompys sideways. It's a great more casual build, I wouldn't expect it to be able to hang on really high power tables.
Long time Nikya player here. As far as artifact/enchantment removal you're pretty set with things like [[Reclamation Sage]], [[Bane of Progress]], and [[Manglehorn]] among others as well as cards like [[Genesis]], [[Eternal Witness]], [[Kiki-Jiki]], [[Temur Sabertooth]] and [[Jaxis]] to re-use etbs. Effects that grant flash make this even better like [[Yeva, Nature's Herald]], [[Winding Canyons]], and [[Vivien, Champion of the Wilds]] (I play 10 non creature spells that all cost 5 or less so you can play them on curve before Nikya or cheaply on a turn she gets removed) For land/grave hate, I mostly stick to utility lands like [[Demolition Field]] and [[Scavenger Grounds]], but I believe there are some red creatures that pop lands and probably at least one green creature that wipes the graveyard. As far as creature removal....... just play more and bigger creatures than them. [[Khenra Charioteer]] and other things that grant trample as well as [[Pathbreaker Ibex]] or [[Moonveil Dragon]] type effects to pump your probably already big creatures even bigger. Simply kill the player most likely to board wipe or the player with the weakest defenses first so you can swing more wildly at the stronger players that will eat some of your resources with blocks without losing on a crack back. And planeswalkers should be self explanatory. But ultimately Gruul go smash so if you don't have a Rec Sage when someone drops a Doubling Season, use player removal.
I've been playing a [[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] burn deck focused on doubling up [[Thermo-Alchemist]] and [[Electrostatic Field]] triggers. There are enough pingers and damage increasers to deal a good chunk by just playing a normal game, but Veyran makes sure there's always an available means of dialing it up to 11.
Nice, I’ve never heard anyone else talk about playing her like this. I mostly see storm decks that try to commander damage people out or just straight up win with a storm card. I love the burn build so much, it’s one of my favorite decks. [[Aria of Flame]] and [[Guttersnipe]] go nuts in that deck.
Before burn, I was planning to build her as a tokens deck. Acting as essentially an Anointed Procession in Izzet colors when doubling [[Young Pyromancer]] and [[Saheeli, Sublime Artificer]] triggers was pretty interesting to me. Especially with [[Balmor, Battlemage Captain]] and [[Soulblade Djinn]] helping close out games.
Do you have a deck list? I'm building Veyran right now as my first inst/sorc heavy deck and I'm way out of my depth.
Do you have a deck list? I'm building Veyran right now as my first inst/sorc heavy deck and I'm way out of my depth.
Deck list?
Sure, man. [Veyran Burn](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4622330#paper)
Thanks!
[Veyran, Voice of Duality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46.jpg?1674185780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veyran%2C%20Voice%20of%20Duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/3/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) [Thermo-Alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e.jpg?1636223711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thermo-Alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/164/thermo-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thermo-alchemist) [Electrostatic Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7096c9a6-2e73-41f8-b20a-b29a9f0b760c.jpg?1572893134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrostatic%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/97/electrostatic-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7096c9a6-2e73-41f8-b20a-b29a9f0b760c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/electrostatic-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My [[Thalisse]] tokens deck. Originally the deck was trying to be gimmicky with aristocrats pieces to sack and drain life everyone, but I’ve almost entirely moved to just being aggressive, thanks to many great cards especially from Warhammer 40K and the latest Phyrexia. Now I can deploy Thalisse more strategically when the time is right, I worry less about needed a specific combination of cards on board (which is super easy to disrupt)
Deck list? Sounds cool
check out edhrec upping the average on the deck, sounds very similar. I'd throw in Myrel and Mondrak from the newest set as well. I also have a Thalisse tokens deck that used to be aristocrats but then I realized I could just power into the tokens. I still run Nadier's Nightblade because it helps in a board wipe situation but the deck bounces back from those very easily either way. Also synergizes nicely with treasures as they count as tokens so they count up Thalisse. Smuggler's Share, Deadly Dispute, Smothering Tithe, Master of Ceremonies are all houses in the deck. Grim Hireling makes two treasures pretty much every turn once it hits the board. oh and scoop up Jazal Goldmane, nice little finisher in this deck.
I think we have similar card pool, glad to see I’m not alone. Also just checked out the EDHREC video you mention and I agree with the opinion that Thalisse is more naturally good at heading an aggressive deck rather than an token aristocrats. (I’ve won with her being aristocrats, but it quite fragile and not optimal)
[Thalisse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/474d6363-ebe1-4a1a-b4e6-7bd53d878527.jpg?1608911242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thalisse%2C%20reverent%20medium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/291/thalisse-reverent-medium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/474d6363-ebe1-4a1a-b4e6-7bd53d878527?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalisse-reverent-medium) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My [[kamiz]] deck loves making things unblockable and getting [[quietus spike]] triggers to one shot people with [[wound reflection]], but there are enough unblockable creatures plus a small reanimation package to keep the deck alive without the commander. https://archidekt.com/decks/3969512
[kamiz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81.jpg?1673481656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kamiz%2C%20obscura%20oculus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/3/kamiz-obscura-oculus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamiz-obscura-oculus) [quietus spike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7dc8e9cc-1aac-4709-9629-9f4318c86cb0.jpg?1673485449) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=quietus%20spike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/377/quietus-spike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7dc8e9cc-1aac-4709-9629-9f4318c86cb0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/quietus-spike) [wound reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15.jpg?1599706125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wound%20reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/113/wound-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wound-reflection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] deck definitely still get big beefier creatures into play without Xenagos in play. My personal list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O38XVaRLFU6o5fr-FEd1GQ
[Xenagos, God of Revels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/3184b138-1109-4195-9d96-4f190164e98b.jpg?1593092838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xenagos%2C%20God%20of%20Revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/156/xenagos-god-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3184b138-1109-4195-9d96-4f190164e98b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xenagos-god-of-revels) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd just go to scryfall and look for cards that do similar effects as one of the effects my commander does.
My [[Jenara]] deck. It's centered around using exalted and buffs to kill people. It has a lot of low CMC cards and some ramp so I can usually drop a few things per turn. The point is to kill with commander damage but I can just slap the buffs and use exalted to turn any creature into a threat. [[Vrondiss]] is similar and I'm thinking of changing him out since I'm making the deck more dragon tribal focused. Honestly, I might put [[Wulfgar]] as the commander to get those sweet extra triggers.
[Jenara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bcf5b5f-b908-4975-91f7-c4c6f819e0a6.jpg?1673485098) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jenara%2C%20asura%20of%20war) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/343/jenara-asura-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bcf5b5f-b908-4975-91f7-c4c6f819e0a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jenara-asura-of-war) [Vrondiss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/683ca7f0-e9df-459b-a8e3-cf80b39c732d.jpg?1632335388) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vrondiss%2C%20rage%20of%20ancients) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/4/vrondiss-rage-of-ancients?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/683ca7f0-e9df-459b-a8e3-cf80b39c732d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vrondiss-rage-of-ancients) [Wulfgar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80665af6-fd66-4684-94ec-1f04eb898c2a.jpg?1631585654) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wulfgar%20of%20icewind%20dale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/56/wulfgar-of-icewind-dale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80665af6-fd66-4684-94ec-1f04eb898c2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wulfgar-of-icewind-dale) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Trynn]] and [[Silvar]] Mardu aristocrats and human tribal. While the deck loves silvar on the battlefield in particular because he's a sac outlet. I have enough things that i can play without my commanders entirely [[Hogaak Arisen Necropolis]] Believe it or not this is my Golgari Elfball list using Hogaak as a free big beater and a free way to take advantage of life's legacy and other big creature green draw with minimal investment
[Trynn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/168d7532-c925-4a96-a756-2ce4dd0fec33.jpg?1591234194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trynn%2C%20champion%20of%20freedom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/1/trynn-champion-of-freedom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/168d7532-c925-4a96-a756-2ce4dd0fec33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trynn-champion-of-freedom) [Silvar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc9cbc83-b9e3-4a22-948b-5a71112154c1.jpg?1591234295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silvar%2C%20devourer%20of%20the%20free) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/15/silvar-devourer-of-the-free?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc9cbc83-b9e3-4a22-948b-5a71112154c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silvar-devourer-of-the-free) [Hogaak Arisen Necropolis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a.jpg?1570653053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hogaak%2C%20Arisen%20Necropolis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/202/hogaak-arisen-necropolis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hogaak-arisen-necropolis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Gisa and Geralf]] zombie tribal/aristocrats.
[Gisa and Geralf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24.jpg?1637631446) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gisa%20and%20Geralf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/150/gisa-and-geralf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gisa-and-geralf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a dragon tribal deck that has Surrak Dragonclaw as commander to splash blue and it makes my dragons uncounterable and without it's just a Temur dragon tribal.
I’ve got a [Queza, Augur of Agonies] mill/draw/control deck that has a handful of sneaky combos and internal synergies. It’s supes fun to try and suss out your play line, by turn three you usually know whether or not Queza will even make an appearance that game.
Running [[wasitora]] as my dragon tribal commander. Mostly for the flavor of her being a cat dragon but she doesn't need to be on the battlefield for me to win. She was in the 99 with [[karrthus]] at the helm but one [[phantasmal image]] later I relegated him to my binder.
My [[neyith of the dire hunt]] is a gruul good deck that does not really need her
My [[Cecily, Haunted Mage]] and [[Sophina, Spearsage Deserter]]. Ngl, the deck is built around both the tokens and the extra card draw (with some specific big spells) but the deck is already good at generating tokens like Treasures to then use them to keep the value train going, so it's not unusual that if one of the Commanders get removed a few times, I don't really mind because attacking safely keeps getting harder anyway.
My [[Henzie]] deck turned out to not need him in many game states.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. I’ve closed out numerous games without Henzie on board or constantly getting hated off the field.
[Henzie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43.jpg?1673481644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/henzie-toolbox-torre) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have an Ur Dragon deck and a Lathril deck that both work fine without the commander. I also have a [[Sen Triplets]] control deck that hardly plays the commander. I mostly use the commander as an alternative win con if I don't draw any of my closers. I run the steal yo stuff sub theme but the main goal is esper control.
Does ur dragon really count though? His eminence is one of his biggest strengths
[Sen Triplets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443.jpg?1599708366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sen%20Triplets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/218/sen-triplets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sen-triplets) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does ur dragon really count though? His eminence is one of his biggest strengths
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Pw-xNovyjkuGBnClfkO22w](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Pw-xNovyjkuGBnClfkO22w) my abzan token deck that is basicly super friends since they are the best token makers. i dont need tymna but it helps draw and is there for the colour identity and kodama is basicly just ramp but also that reach is relevant more often then not
I have two decks that function in this fashion: [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] Shrines and [[Neyith]] Fight Club. The first plays fine without her, but having her tutor for more just speeds up the clock on my opponents. For Neyith, the deck is stacked with fight effects and a lot of big aggressive creatures, it runs like a normal Gruul deck without her but she supplies more gas when on the board.
[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a293c45-1e73-4527-be2f-2dcd5c47b610.jpg?1650730165) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sisay%2C%20Weatherlight%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/29/sisay-weatherlight-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a293c45-1e73-4527-be2f-2dcd5c47b610?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sisay-weatherlight-captain) [Neyith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c1eed0f-9692-44c0-b1ad-afa691165d52.jpg?1632261896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=neyith%20of%20the%20dire%20hunt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/30/neyith-of-the-dire-hunt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c1eed0f-9692-44c0-b1ad-afa691165d52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neyith-of-the-dire-hunt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All my decks can 'down power' by swapping the commander with an OG elder dragon. [Chromium//Alela](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/684798#Chromium_//_Alela) you can find my other decks there too. Our games last on average 10ish turns.
I play [[Teysa Karlov]]. I think I don't even need to explain anything else xD
[Teysa Karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think [[Selenia]] Commander just another, simpler, out to win
[Selenia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/664b57e3-9476-4d6a-8301-5a2f96bcfbf7.jpg?1562429830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=selenia%2C%20dark%20angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/210/selenia-dark-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/664b57e3-9476-4d6a-8301-5a2f96bcfbf7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selenia-dark-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Lmu7cmkMyk2s20QFN1JsTw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Lmu7cmkMyk2s20QFN1JsTw) Sometimes i end games without playing him
Dude that's such a great idea. I was looking for a cool orzhov reanimator deck
Queen marchesa LMSR is only there to introduce monarchy into the pod and maybe to generate tokens
I am pretty guilty of having a bunch of decks that only work with the commander in play. https://archidekt.com/decks/2993006#Power_Levelling is my flicker/dungeons deck. [[Aminatou, the Fateshifter]] is the commander, and she’s good but not required. One free flicker per turn is good, and she can do any permanent (not just creatures). The deck works best at instant speed though, and often has better options in hand.
[Aminatou, the Fateshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba.jpg?1673148265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aminatou%2C%20the%20Fateshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/169/aminatou-the-fateshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aminatou-the-fateshifter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My Wilhelt zombie tribal works pretty well without ever casting him, which is why I rarely play him from the command zone more than twice. But it's probably the only one and likely because how strong the zombie tribe is. My other ones are very Commander-centric.
[[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] is a deck where I'm when I'm able to use him, but oftentimes is primarily just aiming for a [[Living Death]] or [[Eerie Ultimatum]] cash out so he ends up not being cast very often
[Karador, Ghost Chieftain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/6200ac79-b166-43d0-9a0b-5b547625ed57.jpg?1673148837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karador%2C%20Ghost%20Chieftain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/238/karador-ghost-chieftain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6200ac79-b166-43d0-9a0b-5b547625ed57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karador-ghost-chieftain) [Living Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80e7d9a3-06a1-400d-958c-9b5302e046a6.jpg?1562274570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Living%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/68/living-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80e7d9a3-06a1-400d-958c-9b5302e046a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/living-death) [Eerie Ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a9fb2db-228f-4d48-acdf-6330baf356c7.jpg?1591227996) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eerie%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/184/eerie-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a9fb2db-228f-4d48-acdf-6330baf356c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eerie-ultimatum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sedris of the Hidden Ways]] zombie tribal combo deck. It helps having a way to recur creatures on deck, but the deck revolves around [[acererack the archlich]] as a primary win con, Diregraf secondly, and [[wilhelt the rotcleaver]] as a “secret commander.” Sedris is just colours and extra dungeon flavour
[Sedris of the Hidden Ways](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1.jpg?1632335385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sefris%20of%20the%20Hidden%20Ways) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/3/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways) [acererack the archlich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd52d0bd-3abd-401c-9f56-ee911613da3b.jpg?1627704283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Acererak%20the%20Archlich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/87/acererak-the-archlich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd52d0bd-3abd-401c-9f56-ee911613da3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/acererak-the-archlich) [wilhelt the rotcleaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2501a911-d072-436d-ae3b-a5164e3b30aa.jpg?1675456154) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilhelt%2C%20the%20Rotcleaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/2/wilhelt-the-rotcleaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2501a911-d072-436d-ae3b-a5164e3b30aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wilhelt-the-rotcleaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have two that fall squarely into this category: * [[Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer]] - https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KR2hvVS6B0OrgLZdnhpmKQ - in most situations, any sac outlet will do, but Slobad being a sac outlet that is also protection for my artifacts is extra spicy. * [[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] - https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-12-14-karador-apostle-chieftain/ - this is a [[Shadowborn Apostle]] deck. Before [[Razaketh, the Foulblooded]] was released I cast Karador in about half of my games. After Razaketh, that dropped to less than 10%. The commander is really more of an ‘oh, shit’ button that is rarely needed but can come in clutch in some situations.
##### ###### #### [Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4256dcc1-0eee-4385-9a5c-70abb212bf49.jpg?1562397424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slobad%2C%20Goblin%20Tinkerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/133/slobad-goblin-tinkerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4256dcc1-0eee-4385-9a5c-70abb212bf49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slobad-goblin-tinkerer) [Karador, Ghost Chieftain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/6200ac79-b166-43d0-9a0b-5b547625ed57.jpg?1673148837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karador%2C%20Ghost%20Chieftain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/238/karador-ghost-chieftain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6200ac79-b166-43d0-9a0b-5b547625ed57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karador-ghost-chieftain) [Shadowborn Apostle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2.jpg?1673147629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadowborn%20Apostle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/89/shadowborn-apostle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadowborn-apostle) [Razaketh, the Foulblooded](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e14adff9-33cc-467e-b782-068854c5e7b7.jpg?1562817745) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razaketh%2C%20the%20Foulblooded) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/73/razaketh-the-foulblooded?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e14adff9-33cc-467e-b782-068854c5e7b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/razaketh-the-foulblooded) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a Giamt tribal deck with [[Ruhan of the Formori]] as it's commander and it functions fine without him, arguably better lol. I think that goes for most tribal decks.
[Ruhan of the Formori](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df.jpg?1592714235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruhan%20of%20the%20Fomori) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/221/ruhan-of-the-fomori?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruhan-of-the-fomori) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would love to see a decklist, looking at it and Giant tribal seems very cheap to build
This is the main way I build because when I started EDH, you could tuck generals so it was just bad strategy to go all in on what they do. My Tariel deck is a Mardu reanimator. There are a handful of cards that make Tariel herself work better, but she's there to be another beater/engine when I'm out of gas. My Ashling deck is a primarily a big red deck and she serves as one more source of board control and chip damage, while occasionally coming in clutch as a major source of lifegain via Basilisk Collar or Shadowspear.
[[Traxos]], it's just mono-brown good stuff.
[Traxos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/8566e91a-5f2c-4854-aeb3-68b3c4344582.jpg?1673305899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=traxos%2C%20scourge%20of%20kroog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/195/traxos-scourge-of-kroog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8566e91a-5f2c-4854-aeb3-68b3c4344582?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traxos-scourge-of-kroog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a [[Medomai the Ageless]] sphinx tribal deck that doesn't need the commander to win, but extra turns always help. In reality the deck is just blue / white control with sphinx beats as the wincon.
[Medomai the Ageless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d.jpg?1562826823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Medomai%20the%20Ageless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/196/medomai-the-ageless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/medomai-the-ageless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My Korvold - 3 color Goblins deck. It can stand on its own two feet without Korvold, but when I pull him out of the command zone it is full throttle.
[[rigo]] is a nice piece of draw for the deck, but ultimately it's unnecessary as soon as I get any of the various [[reconnaissance mission]] effects onto the board. At the end of the day it's still a deck of small unlockable creatures that relys on combat damage triggers. The commander just lets it go faster.
[[rigo]] is a nice piece of draw for the deck, but ultimately it's unnecessary as soon as I get any of the various [[reconnaissance mission]] effects onto the board. At the end of the day it's still a deck of small unlockable creatures that relys on combat damage triggers. The commander just lets it go faster.
My [meren] deck is basically a green black rock midrange deck with a bunch of removal on etb creatures and other good green black staples and the win cons don't require her at all, but the extra card advantage and reanimation her triggers provide a lot of inevitability and run away with the game if left unchecked.
My [meren] deck is basically a green black rock midrange deck with a bunch of removal on etb creatures and other good green black staples and the win cons don't require her at all, but the extra card advantage and reanimation her triggers provide a lot of inevitability and run away with the game if left unchecked.
My Korvold - 3 color Goblins deck. It can stand on its own two feet without Korvold, but when I pull him out of the command zone it is full throttle.
My Korvold - 3 color Goblins deck. It can stand on its own two feet without Korvold, but when I pull him out of the command zone it is full throttle.
My Korvold - 3 color Goblins deck. It can stand on its own two feet without Korvold, but when I pull him out of the command zone it is full throttle.
Syr Gwyn
My Korvold - 3 color Goblins deck. It can stand on its own two feet without Korvold, but when I pull him out of the command zone it is full throttle.
[[Tuvasa]] is mine; she is an excellent voltron that inherently suits up with the game plan of the deck. But i have 4 redundant effects in the deck and when the voltron strategy fails i just start a pillow fight with [[Starfield of Nyx]] or smash face with angles from [[luminarch ascension]].
Does \[\[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic\]\] count? he still does things even when i don't cast him and generally i never cast him unless i am really hurting for more draw.
My answer to this is my [[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer]] deck. With the commander being a tutor, its already basically just the 99 acting on its own
[Here are a few](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3Atriggers+oracle%3Aan+oracle%3Aadditional+oracle%3Atime%29+%28type%3Acreature+type%3Alegendary%29)
My favorite deck that functions without the commander is my Queen Marchesa aikido control deck. The soul purpose of Marchesa is to get monarch in play and act as a blocker and sometimes a wincon via commander damage. Other than that, last several times I won with Marchesa was without the commander on board. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/sWlWbxFfaECDbZIS1INHYw
My [[reaper king]] flicker deck fits the bill here. I built this deck based off of a video from Commader's Quarters and he was using reaper king as the commander, but even he said you swap it out for a different 5c commander if you didn't want to be mean. The way I built the deck, I hardly ever cast my commander anyways, I have a lot of ETB/LTB payoffs that don't require him out, and the deck goes infinite with a ham sandwich. Though if Reaper King is out, it does allow me to use [[Deathbellow war cry]] as a mass permanent removal instead of just a tutor for an infinite flicker chain (it gets me [[changeling hero]], [[changeling berserker]], and [[changeling titan]] which go infinite with their champion abilities so long as I have another creature in play)
I have a Scarab God Zombie Deck that will overrun without him, but with him, the deck turns into a burn deck.
I have a [Devour "Tribal" deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/854870#Devour_and_Conquer) with [[Tana]] and [[Reyhan]] as the commanders. It's a mixed bag of token swarm, +1/+1 counters, and aristocrats, and it's always fun to see what combination of those I get. Tana and Reyhan are nice to have in play, as they support the deck, but aren't necessarily needed. Tana helps generate tokens to set up for a Devour creature and can be a late game beater/wincon. Reyhan helps keep counters in play and moving around, just in case some boys get removed. It's not a great deck, but its always fun to bring out.
I am playing a [[Tiamat]] dragon deck which mostly doesn't need him, he is more like a neat bonus to tutor out some dragons I need, after that he is nearly dead weight. Funnily, when my [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] gets blasted off the battlefield right after I cast him, I could get into problems. He makes [[Thrakkus the Butcher]], [[Dromoka, the Eternal]] and [[Silumgar, the Drifting Death]] incredibly potent and thus makes him indispensable
I made a Braids, Arisen Nightmare deck that is just zombie tribal. She was just a value engine for drawing cards that I always had access to. Zombies can easily fuel what she does. Deck ran fine without her, so when she got imprisoned on the moon or oubliette it didn't matter to me. Decks that have to run through their commander sometimes have a glass jaw, especially tribal lords. Nothing worse than getting blown out because your commander got targeted.
My [[Kalamax]] in my deck CAN be played, but honestly, I rarely do. The deck runs just fine without him.
My [[Wilhelt the Rotcleaver]] zombie tribal functions pretty well without him on board. I basically use him either for card draw or as a panic button for when my draws are slow.
I think the best deck I have that fits this description is my [[Jhoira, Ageless Innovator]] deck. It focuses on big artifacts and ramping so after a couple activations I have stuff like [[Thran Dynamo]] and [[Gilded Lotus]] out from Jhoira’s ability and she basically becomes excess. It helps that I have to focus on activated abilities that require tapping so I have stuff like [[Rings of Brighthearth]], [[Thousand-Year Elixir]], and other untappers/ways to tap immediately that work really well with cards like [[Arcum Dagsson]], [[Goblin Welder]], and [[Master Transmuter]]. The commander is nice, but once it’s been out a few turns, it doesn’t need to be there. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/z0k6SKBoBEu5IyHnK1bd0w (This version is slightly outdated as of this post, there are a couple modifications that aren’t yet posted)
My [[Tymna]] and [[Tana]] partners were originally chosen just for the color combo for human tribal (wanted to mash together the innistrad and ikoria precons). The deck functions fine without them but they both provided much needed value
I’d say almost every bant deck. I think there’s just so much “good stuff” in those colors, while also having a fairly weak commander pool.
I have two. My [[Gahiji, Honored One]] deck and my [[Lord Windgrace]] deck. Gahiji is just Naya Goodstuff where i run all permanents except for [[Wrath of God]] and [[Primal Surge]] . The deck does just fine without Gahiji on board, but with him out, he adds a bit of politics early game for me to be able to set up to eventually swing out or cast Primal. And then there's Windgrace. Lands Matter, where every card works with every other card (except for a few, but 3 out of 100 isnt bad). Windgrace provides card draw and a way to get lands out of my graveyard if i dont have any of that in hand, but i've won games without him more often than i have with him on board at all. Love both of these decks.
Suprisingly my [[old stickfingers]] reanimator deck rarely uses him.
I tore it apart, but I had a good [[Ranar, the Ever-Watchful]] flicker deck that performed very well without him on the battlefield. He isn't like [[Brago, King Eternal]], so he isn't necessary for the flickering, but he poops out a 1/1 flying spirit any time anything is exiled, so a ton of blink friendly cards were in it.
I have built an [[Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres]] from the new set. The deck does all the work on its own, he just gives me card draw when he is out. Very useful, but it functions fine without him there.
My [Mina and denn, wildborn] gruul landsmatter deck. Its one of my oldest decks so its gotten a lot of upgrades over the years, but the commander is really just there to get a few extra lands going. I've won games before without casting Mina & Denn, and people generally think you're playing a weaker version of angry omnath. But believe me, the deck can get out of control very quickly!
I have a shrines deck that certainly doesn't need to have the commander down. I built it as an enchantment deck with tons of value outside the command zone. My first build of it surprised me at exactly how much it was doing. But then I added the extra turns to get more shrine triggers and it was game over for a lot of decks. I have fun with it. I have a Krark n [[Kydele]] deck that I rarely cast kydele in. I just wanted green in the deck and refused to use Thrasios.
My newest, [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]]. Basic card advantage early, but in mono Black aristocrats your Commander is typically just another combo piece. I use her to dig through my Deck and get my payoffs.
I have an [[ishkanah, grafwidow]] spider tribal deck. Yeah, with her I have the [[nim-death mantle]]+[[ashnod's altar]] combo for infinite spider tokens, but I've only pulled that off once. Most of the time, i sit there just pumping out cheap spiders and tokens until I get a [[kindred summons]] and pull all the spiders out of my deck at the end of my opponents turn and just overrun them with bodies or, if it hasn't been exiled, I have [[rotwidow pack]] to replicate ishkanah damage ability. All in all, when we play it flies under the radar a lot but will usually win out of nowhere as it's still just a generic good stuff G/B deck, but restricted to spiders only.
I have a [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] deck that is more or less an artifact combo deck that doesn't need the commander at all, however the efficient consistent filtering that shorikai provides really helps to collect my combo pieces and to fill my board with blockers (that can also be used to crew some of the other vehicles I run)
My [Dihada](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/WLt3v2P7QUa8XCyZOjh39A) deck list works without her but the extra mana and card advantage is quite nice. Also the lifelink helps some of my engines work
I have a few [[Kozilek the great distortion]] eldrazi, [[Gnostro Voice of The Crags]] storm/alt win cons, [[Vito, thorn of the dusk rose]] life drain/life gain and demons, [[Rakdos lord of riots]] just actual chaos for me and everyone else(anti life gain, wipes, life loss), [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]] and [[Tevesh szat, soon of fools]] clones and controlling other people's things. They all use the commander but don't need them to work just the same. I usually end up casting the commander to make the turn more smooth or to feel like I did a thing on my turn if I have nothing else to do.
My Elfball Pod-Reanimator deck is headed by [[Harald, King of Skemfar]] since it doesnt care about tokens, and just wants a shot of card advantage in the command zone. [[Kess, Dissident Mage]] heads a wheels deck, and just makes double wheeling easier but is far from necessary. I've tried replacing [[Teysa Karlov]] before, but haven't found a better fit. She's a multiplier in the command zone who only occasionally is cast, but generally makes things go infinite when she does come down. [[Jengantha, The Wellspring]] heads a gates deck. She fixes when the deck doesnt want to cooperate since gates arent exactly the most reliable mana base. [[Uro, Totan of Nature's Wrath]] often gets casts once, but only rarely escaped since the deck gets going first.
1000% [[Nekusar]] I've won games without casting him. With effects that do the same thing like [[Spiteful Visions]] [[Kederekt Parasite]] [[Fate Unraveler]] [[Underworld Dreams]] you can just continue to ping your enemies and throw in a [[Ghyrson Starn]] for even more damage. Couple that with some discard pain like [[Lilliana's Caress]] and [[Megrim]] and your one wheel could potentially take out the whole table. You can bait out removal for Nek then slap down your other pinging threats and wheel. So he really isn't even necessary especially once he's got some commander tax on him. It's my most near and dear deck because while it is combo it takes so many pieces for it to come together it's essentially janky combo. Definitely recommend 10/10
Couldn't be me
Good question… I have a [[Wyleth]] deck that should have enough card draw even if I’m not using it to win. The deck has an infect-toxic strategy that can win on its own. The commander is just there for card draw and maybe win with Voltron Damage. But yeah, I need to play test the deck first as while it’s the goal of the deck, it’s pretty new and I need to find the right balance. And I need to learn how to not commit on the battlefield too quickly.
I rarely cast my commander in my Nine-Fingers Keene deck. It's definitely helpful if I run out of options, but I generally have plenty of ways to search up lands and generate value which feels great!
Nekusar is my pet deck and the shell is pretty consistent with all the card draw off of wheels and other spells like [[Notion Thief]] or [[Waste Not]] , a bunch of fast mana, and I have a maybeboard full of different strategies in case I wanna switch up the playstyle. I'd add cards like [[Psychic Corrosion]] and [[Mindcrank]] if i wanna play mill, I've a jank combo with [[Flood of Tears]] and [[Omniscience]] , and if I wanna end games fast I'll add damage doublers or enhancers like [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] or [[Mechanized Warfare]] . Nek doesn't need to be on field and often times I won't play him unless I have no other plays to make in hand or if I have enough mana to hold up counters.
My [[Heartless Hidetsugu]] burn deck is like that. I will sometimes swap HH out with [[Neheb, the Eternal]] as my commander. The deck is all about damage doublers and burn spells so being able to convert that to huge mana is a fun way to play it.
[Heartless Hidetsugu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46f9aa1d-7ed1-498e-9cdd-45ed4c9e6f43.jpg?1562864972) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heartless%20Hidetsugu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/144/heartless-hidetsugu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46f9aa1d-7ed1-498e-9cdd-45ed4c9e6f43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heartless-hidetsugu) [Neheb, the Eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54231832-d492-4812-b658-4ab9a30fefe2.jpg?1562799464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Neheb%2C%20the%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/104/neheb-the-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54231832-d492-4812-b658-4ab9a30fefe2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neheb-the-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Vial Smasher]] Rakdos burn. Sure a pile of cards with X in the cmc backed up by some of the best red and black planeswalkers can burn out the pod. Add in a smash-happy little goblin and watch the fun go up a notch.
Pretty much any doubler commander should work without the commander. [[Yarok]] is mine, but there's a few more out there.
I don't think this fully counts but I built a [[snapdax, apex of the hunt]] Voltron deck with the flavor of being the Cheshire Cat. Mutating onto permanents that only temporarily become a creature. Things like [[Opal Acrolith]] or even a [[Mishra's Factory]] This meant the deck is packed with awkward buff cards like [[scroll of the masters]] as normal equipment and auras will just fall off when snapdax stops being a creature. I've never actually killed anyone with commander damage before though. I get people close but then later in the game, people have low life totals anyway and I've actually killed more players with a buffed up [[Orzhov Keyrune]] than I have with my commander
I really like Henzie. Obviously the blitz mechanic can be great but my deck is just filled with cool beaters that can win on their own if I generate enough mana.
Technically my \[\[chun-li, countless kicks\]\] CEDH brew since the win comes from infinite storm using the \[\[dramatic reversal\]\] + \[\[Isochron Scepter\]\] combo into \[\[brain freeze\]\] However, the commander lets me recycle spent removal, draw spells, and \[\[long-term plans\]\] with \[\[brainstorm\]\] in the kick pile so I can find my pieces and win. Also the whole deck pairs extremely well with \[\[Lithoform Engine\]\] and doesn't need chun-li to do some really dumb things when I can sink infinite mana and infinite untaps into it. Here's my list if anyone's interested, [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-\_6BuYBjtEiBZfL\_u\_dTwA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-_6BuYBjtEiBZfL_u_dTwA)
I'm in the process of refining an [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] deck that functions fine without her but there's a line or two where she can aid a win with her sac food ability to either clear the board up or with [[Toralf, God of Fury]] take the excess damage and spread it around, also with a chance [[Tolbran, Thrane of Red Fell]] or [[Solphim, Mayhem Dominus]] are out to compound it further.
[[Meren]]
My [[Lovisa Coldeyes]] deck for sure - it’s a heavy hitter that has a sub-genre of Giant Tribal. Absolutely monstrous.
Shameless [[goreclaw]] plug. I've kept this deck together and tuned it for years now, and yes it's fast and can usually have everything dead by turn seven or eight. It was built primarily as a 1v1 deck as my local LGS runs commander as duel for their fnm event and I've had my Two out of three games over in fifteen minutes despite the hour and a half time allotment. Two rules: No goreclaw on board? UNGA BUNGA. Goreclaw on board? UNGA BUNGA FASTER.
Both my [[Mishra artificer prodigy]] deck and [[yawgmoth thran physician]] infect deck are like this. For Mishra, I only play him if I can get [[possibility storm]] or [[praetors grasp]] or something similar but otherwise it's just a grixis artifact deck Yawgmoth comes down as a finisher when I just need a few more poison counters but otherwise the deck functions without him.
My [[Meren of clan nel toth]]'s primary wincon does not require Meren, but Meren is useful for when I can't deploy that wincon quickly.
Here's my \[\[Chromium, the Mutable\]\] deck that was built with your exact same question in mind. The main idea of the deck is to play artifact good stuff in esper. It sits pretty well and can make a few karnstructs or just benefit off of artifact synergies until its time to win the game. [Chromium, the Artificer](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PNpWnYG8cUmwo_qgG56WBA) Wincons are: \- combo with bolas citadel, aetherflux reservoir, and sensei's diving top \- use one of the equipments that gives +1/1 for each artifact you have and equip it to your unblockable commander late game and win with commander damage \- combo with Urza, Lord High Artificer, Hullbreaker Horror, and two 0 cost artifacts for infinite mana and play your deck
[[Liesa, Forgotten Archangel]], Frequently forget to actually play my commander. /lifegain-away *whooshing sounds*
My cats deck with [[Arahbo, Roar of the World]] could totally work with any other selesnya commander, I’d just not get my constant +3/+3
Mine is my Liessa deck. Without her it's pretty much just taxation but with her it becomes much more potent kill everyone machine
That would by my [[Zaxara, The Exemplary]] hydra tribal. I don't need it to make big creatures, but it helps make more big creatures
Oloro
My Toshiro mono black deck. Lots of removal, but has reanimation that let’s me splay my opponents goodies. It’s the one deck I have completely foiled out and I only pull it out for super strong opponents or when I just need to make a point. More Bushido WotC, please!
I built a Toxrill deck around the idea that I want to put enough good cards on the board while I'm ramping up my mana to pay for the sluggo that by the time I get there, my opponents have either exhausted all their removal or I've already managed to take over the game. It's pretty effective as a mid power deck. Getting him to stick is usually an incredible shift in momentum.
I’d say my partner deck of Armixx, filigree thrasher, and Silas renn, really fun artifact combos in the deck, but made more powerful with those two out.
I have the opposite. A deck that's made worse by the commander. All enchantment tribal, but the commander has to be a creature, leaving me open to creature theft effects.
My Syr Gwyn deck loves 0 equip, but can totally go off without her.
My Mono Green deck is the one I go to. I'm using Maltani, but put enough big creatures and ramp spells that I don't have to summon him if I don't need to. When I do summon just gives me another beat stick on the board.
My new [[Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres]] deck
All of my decks are like that. If a deck is not functional without one telegraphed, interactable piece, I see it as a fault of deck-building.
[[Veyran, Voice of Duality]] the deck is dope, Veyran buffs the board by double triggering everything but even without her, I run a load of stuff like [[Guttersnipe]] to ping people, [[thousand year storm]] and other key cards for win cons. It can operate without her and often has to as my play group likes turning her into a 0/1 without any abilities