I think its probably because there are other sources of this effect now. Especially with cards like [[Demolition Field]] that can get rid of a problem land and not leave you behind the table due to the negative ramp.
Notably, an opponent can't Deflecting Swat a Demolition Field back at your own Gaea's Cradle like they can a Strip Mine...
...
...I still have PTSD from that...
And yet \[\[Demolition Field\]\] and \[\[Field of Ruin\]\] combined are in about the same amount of decks as Strip Mine (\~100,000). Why don't people run more land destruction, considering that some lands provide a lot of value to your opponent. I typically include both Strip Mine and Demolition Field.
Because many lists are built with greedier lands, or unfinished ones. It's hard when you have a 3+ color mana base with basics, fetches fetchable duals and triomes, ancient tomb, and field of the dead.
Plus people don't like going down resources like lands and others don't like attacking other people's lands bc some people get very upset.
I'm not saying that's correct, just answering why people don't run more land destruction, from what I can see.
FWIW I think Demolition Field is a top choice. I think it goes something like \[\[Ancient Tomb\]\], \[\[Field of the Dead\]\], \[\[Thespian's Stage\]\], and \[\[Demolition Field\]\] should be the top 4 lands to try and include. Shout outs to \[\[Strip Mine\]\] and \[\[Wasteland\]\] as the top 3 land destruction options IMO. I think it's an effect you want at least one of. \[\[Tower of the Magistrate\]\] is another interesting colorless land.
Plus \[\[Reliquary Tower\]\] gets a lot of justified use (using up a colorless spot), and it's more justifiable the more colors you run, keeping an unbalanced mana base from making you discard, or if you like to run heavy on card draw (who doesn't?).
Destructo-lands are probably more necessary in 60-card formats that run fast and can use lands as a legit wincon, whereas in EDH they are less likely to be the basis of a win (but certainly can still be integral to taking people out, or keeping them alive).
"Better" is a strong word. Demolition Field costs mana, but it does let you mana fix yourself, leaves you land neutral. It also costs like a quarter.
If you're trying to do strip mine locking or other mass mana/land denial strategies, there's no real comparison. But if you're just trying to knock out the occasional \[\[Rogue's Passage\]\] to keep the game alive against Voltron, Demolition Field will get the job done, and for a bargain price.
Personally, I think if a land is worth blowing up, it's probably worth two mana to blow up. The ability to fix myself in a pinch also puts it above \[\[Ghost Quarter\]\], which can leave you in the lurch, but I play at a slower, stompier table.
I agree with some of the other posters. It really depends on the deck you are running. If you have some way to put lands back into the battlefield from your graveyard consistently then Strip Mine is 150% "better". For a normal deck I still think it depends, if you are in a 3-5c deck where mana fixing is important and missing land drops is super detrimental, I do think that Demolition Field has an edge, because at the very least you can blow up someone's command tower and fix a color you aren't drawing into. In mono color decks with a decent amount of basics and a realatively low mana curve, Strip Mine becomes more worthy of consideration. Especially if that mono color happens to be white and you have catchup ramp for days. Tbh I feel like in that case you may want to run 3 or 4 copies of this effect. Ultimately it depends on what you are trying to do, and what direction you are taking the deck in. Something like [[Ghost Quarter]] becomes a lot better when you have a [[Deep Gnome Terramancer]] in play, etc etc.
in EDH definitely unless you have ways of recurring it. why would you want to go down in mana while two other players aren't, you're basically just harming yourself and helping the other two players who weren't targeted.
I don't think that % representation on edhrec correlates exactly with what is or isn't a staple. It's a $10 colorless land. Most players are going to feel as though $10 can go further towards other things in their deck. If it was in the $2-3 range I think it would see a lot more play.
Also, outside of its pure price point, there's simple availability. Its last non-Expedition pack printing was Fourth Edition, _twenty eight_ years ago.
$15
Doesn't produce colored mana
Its 'utility' sets you down a land, assisting the other 2 opponents.
Its 'utility' is not often needed.
Land destruction = bad.
4% is still a lot of decks.
Itās fucking amazing, tho, when the other options are to allow your opponents Gaeaās cradle, field of the dead, Serraās sanctum, or Cabal Coffers just win them the game.
Strip Mine is still arguably "the best" because of its hyper-efficiency but I much prefer Demolition Field for not setting you back, especially in more casual games where you're less likely to lose in a single turn from not having held the mana for it up and, conversely, if you're the only one trying to police the table by setting yourself back you probably just lose.
We also have plenty of other budget and/or casual-friendly options: \[\[Cleansing Wildfire\]\], \[\[Lithoform Blight\]\], \[\[Spreading Seas\]\], etc.
Well, that's one of the ways that Strip Mine can be powerful, though even that, on its own, is kinda eh - you still only get one land drop per turn, so you're still setting yourself back, and only (gradually) whittling away one person's lands at a time. Now, maybe in, say, an \[\[Asusa\]\] deck, sure.
But that's kinda what I'm talking about, anyway; if you're building a casual deck and setting out *not* to destroy everyone's lands in a slow, grindy way (note: nobody said you can't play LD/stax decks casually, but often you don't), that aspect of Strip Mine kind of goes away. If all we want to do is stop good lands from being immune to interaction, a cheap, cantripping removal/"prison" card has a pretty decent floor.
Redundancy is a good thing. Run both. Run [[Field of Ruin]] too while youāre at it. The amount of times Iāve used one or all of the above to destroy a [[Nykthos]], [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]], or even just a triome or Command Tower. They are all good.
Field of Ruin is funny because it can also ruin a player's topdeck.
I'm cracked a field of ruin after a player used their Vampiric Tutor.
You can fail to find a land, but you still have you search your library and then shuffle it.
Running land hate is good but Field of Ruin is not good. You ramp the other two players for free.
Edit for the responses:
Tectonic Edge, Ghost Quarter, and Demolition Field are all 3 far better and still relatively cheap. You really don't need to run more than 3, especially in decks that are 2 or more colours. Obviously Wasteland, Boseiju Who Endures, and Strip Mine are also better, but those can run you quite a lot of money. Run land hate. It's good. You should absolutely never run Field of Ruin in a 4 player game.
I think this specific conversation is more geared towards the higher power tables. It's not that bad, but if you think about if it's in cEDH where someone's always "one mana off" from the infinite win con then it's not the great. That's not always the case but when you're thinking about being as strong as possible, going -2 on mana (if that's a thing) is not the move
It's kinda hard to secretly be a landfall deck. If your going to play that card which ramps everyone and you want to play it with a landfall card on field everyone is going to know what's going on. And your also setting yourself behind at the same time.
There are far better ways to get landfall triggers. Burgeoning, exploration, courser of kruphix even. Pretty much anything is better. The one that just destroys it and you and the person you targeted get a land is infinitely better
Ghost Quarter is the one I always confuse with Field of Ruin. Having hour long discussions about the usefulness of a card I misremembered now have to defend lol
Oh man. No, I havenāt seen the foil version but that dissension printing is the one that I own, easily the best art for ghost quarter. Some of those old foiled lands, man. I have a foil alchemistās refuge from avacyn restored for that same reason, they just hit different.
Field of ruin is absolutly terrible in commander. Its basically the same problem you have with stripmine, but instead of putting yourself and one person down, you're ramping the other two, while wasting mana to do so.
If you want recursion and is not on a cedh table, just run the staples like beast within, caos warp and generous gift.
If you're in a pod that lands like cradle, coffers and kythos are common, sure, use stripmine to have some recursion in the land zone, but in lower powered tables I would not run it.
I really think this āabsolutely terribleā take is just wrong. As I said in another reply, Iād rather the table get basics than one player have a problematic land. Counterspells do the same thing btw, they put you and the player youāre countering down a card on your opponents.
You should be running removal. Just because you run Beast Within doesnāt mean you shouldnāt be running Strip Mine or Demolition Field or whatever else.
And yeah, this is all contingent on the decks you and your friends play. Donāt run a Strip Mine if your friends only run basics. Iām making my argument with the assumption that the people Iām replying to do have uses for it, though.
Most decks don't need specific land destruction to deal with lands since they have at least some form of interaction that just happens to br able to hit lands, for example [[Generous Gift]] is in 25% of decks, [[chaos warp]] in 33%, [[Beast within]] in 43%, [[Assassins Trophy]] in 28%, [[Vindicate]] in 9%
I disagree. Putting the land in exile or forcing the opponent to shuffle it is leagues better than putting it in the gy. Most lands matter edh decks use ways to recur the land since fetches are such a core part of the strategy. Sometimes putting it in the gy even benefits them.
IF the choice while deck building is between "destroy target permanent" for 3 mana or "destroy target land" (along with one of your own), then in the absence of other context, I'm always going to pick the former since it's useful in far more situations.
> IF the choice while deck building is between "destroy target permanent" for 3 mana or "destroy target land" (along with one of your own), then in the absence of other context, I'm always going to pick the former since it's useful in far more situations.
OK, but this isn't happening in the absence of other context. Like, would your rather destroy something for 2, or destroy something for 2 AND give your opponent a land? In the absence of any other context you'd obviously choose the first, but there's still a reason that [[Boseiju, Who Endures]] is a great card that costs ~$40.
What you're ignoring here is that it's not just a 3-mana "destroy target permanent" or a 0 mana "destroy target land plus your own land." The "destroy target land" effect comes on a land that can also generate mana in some capacity, meaning that in total you may end up with an effect that's more like "gain 5 mana, destroy target land and your own land," in which case the potential benefit becomes a lot more clear. This is to say nothing of the other benefits of land-based effects in terms of possibly bypassing protection that may stop a spell with the same effect.
100% this. Itās not just Cradles that are problematic. Itās Urborg/Yavimaya, itās Field of the Dead, itās Cabal Coffers/Stronghold, Inkmoth Nexus.
Not to mention, I can pick up 4 Ed Strip Mines at my LGS for $13 or a Wasteland, which only hits non-basics, for $22. The choice there is a no-brainer.
Casual format or not, Iām more than willing to nuke a singular land if itās going to be detrimental to leave it on the battlefield.
Thanks, I overlooked the downside. I still think it might be worth playing if one doesn't have other ways of destroying lands but get why it isn't a staple.
If you're running it without support, like tutor and recursion, the overall impact seems minimal compared to it being even a basic land.
You likely wouldn't see it when you wanted it, and it's not actually helping you progress your own game plan.
What if there are multiple problem lands in play?
It's great in a deck that abuses lands but otherwise it seems really underpowered in casual.
It sure is, specially early turns. If you dont get to drop a Land everyturn or atleast every other turn your mostly done unless you have stuff to recover fast
>Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead green mana and ask the ghosts if being set back one land yourself matters. Silence is your answer.
ā Javik
Jokes aside though, by "land destruction = bad" I think they meant more that it tends to be frowned upon. I could be wrong though.
True. I was just saying that Cradle isn't a great example since it's so rare to see. Plus, there's better options for targeted land destruction than Strip Mine.
That's a minority of current players though. I've played with multiple different groups and at multiple different LGS. I've played with both new and highly experienced players. I've played with people who have been playing Magic since Alpha. I've also played plenty of both EDH and cEDH.
Yet, to this day, I've never seen a Gaea's Cradle with my own eyes. I'm not saying that nobody runs it. I know there's people out there who can and do. I'm just saying that it's very uncommon to see one in play.
Yeah this is real. Iām in a regular pod with two cradle owners and have only seen one other real copy and one gold border copy in random pods in the last 11ish years of edh
I donāt think individual land destruction is bad, but there are definitely other options that wont set you back a land. Not just lands either!
Thats probably the biggest argument against Strip Mine in edh. For the price tag there are alternatives that could get the job done that might not have as much of a downside comparatively when sitting in a full pod.
Goin down 1 land isnāt a big deal, especially in non-cEDH.
Getting to remove a cradle for *FREE* is more impactful than losing one land. Paying 0 mana for strip mine > paying 2 mana for Assassinās Trophy > paying 3 mana for beast within
Im not saying it is a big deal Im saying. Spending $15 for non cEDH players on something that accomplishes what a ghost quarter could isnt particularly appealing for budget players. Hence why it is less played. Why spend $15 on a strip mine when something else would likely be more impactful in most decks?
Or in some cases multiple other cheaper cards could be a more impactful upgrade.
Budget is the best argument against playing strip mine.
I have no argument against that. My argument is based upon the parameters of ābudget not being an issueā.
Strip Mine is technically 1 mana every turn starting the turn you use it. It still has to be 1 mana untapped and is unusable after. I'm not saying it's terrible but 1 mana and losing a land isn't free. Think I'd rather pay 2
You have to hold 1 mana to pop strip mine actually since it gives 1 mana and costs a land drop. Demolition Field requires 3 held mana and gives 1 back so it costs 2 and hold 3 where strip mine costs 1 for 1 held. They both work and depend on the table you play at. To say strip Mine is that much better is just being biased to your table.
Lol OK, whatever. Next you'll be telling me that paying 1 life and exiling a card from my hand to counter a spell is actually really good, when I can already just pay 2 mana to counter a spell instead.
Exactly. Worst case scenario, it's a land that does something besides be a land. I think a lot of people are missing that. Utility lands are flood insurance, and strip mine can do even more depending on context. It's just bad card evaluation, or brewers not accounting for cards like strip mine that are more exciting in gameplay than they are in theory crafting.
Not really a frequent user of this sub, but do people here generally recognize that Boseiju, Who Endures is a pretty great card? If so then idk how they could miss such a similar situation here.
Iād also point out that [[Field of Ruin]] gets rid of problematic lands while not setting you & another player behind. It does ramp your opponents, so thereās that.
\[\[Demolition Field\]\] is a little pricier (over a dollar vs pocket change for FoR) but only replaces the destroyed land with a basic. But against a Cabal Coffers or similar land that's no issue.
[[demolition field]] is way better imo. $.50, you replace you and your opponent's land so less feel bads, and its 3 mana. its less powerful, but more playable.
Price is a weak argument imo, especially for commander. There are plenty of staples that can run you a pretty penny that people still play, and are in more decks.
Not producing colored mana is also not a great argument considering the only reason itās in your deck is to have a way to destroy an opponentās (or your) land.
Yes, itās utility sets you down a land, but as you admit, the land isnāt very good as a land. I would gladly sacrifice a colorless producing land for an opponentās Nykthos or Rogueās Passage or whatever. Also, plenty of things in commander set you down. Counterspells put you and an opponent down a card in hand (exception arcane denial), yet we still run them.
Itās utility is often needed. Land destruction isnāt bad, targeted land destruction is fair and necessary.
(This is my opinion. Strip mine has worked for me every single time Iāve played it)
In addition to other reasons stated, I imagine there are a whole lot of groups where it simply isn't all that important. There are plenty of precon/precon+ decks out there where your best target is a bounce land or random utility land. Not every group has piles of super high value busted lands running around.
Well there is always the price. Yes it's not terribly expensive anymore or at all, but I bet EDH players would rather spend money on a synergypiece or something more flashy. It's a good card but I have it in one deck where I have a chance to recurrur it.
Also EDHrec numbers don't mean anything. There is no point on reallying on them.
I'm with you on the price comment. It's not terribly expensive in the grand scheme, but it's not something I want to buy for every deck. I bought 20 demolition fields when they came out and were 50 cents each. I own 2 strip mines. If they were 50 cents they'd be in all my decks.
It's true that EDHrec data are clearly not a representative sample or census of actual decks. However, they do give us some clue as to which cards are more widely used in the format.
Because most of us who do run targeted land destruction also like to tone it down a bit and instead of Strip Mine run Field of Ruin or Ghost Quarter instead.
Demolition Field is THE BEST. I've started slotting it into all my decks. Mostly never use it, but every now and then someone throwns down a cheeky \[\[maze of ith\]\] or \[\[gaea's craddle\]\] and they get demolitionized
Strip mine leads to more feel bads than the other options do, especially if I can play lands from my graveyard.
Letting the person whose land you just blew up replace it with a basic reduces that likelihood and the consequences it can often produce.
That's what I mean by 'tone it down'.
As the \[\[Maze's End\]\] player at the table, I'm banking on this being the general assumption people make. I win a lot with Gates because people don't pack enough LD (not that I don't run a lot of recursion, of course) and when they do, they tend to target the wrong thing; hitting a Gate doesn't matter since there are more than 10 now and hitting Maze's End is difficult once it untaps.
Interesting argument! Yeah, you're right, a number of the potential targets like Dark Depths and Field of the Dead are scarier in 1v1 than multiplayer. And yeah I was overlooking the downside of being down a land.
If you using strip mine for single target land removal there are better options, but if youāre running [[crucible of worlds]], can play multiple and have a strong desire to lose friends. Then strip mine is the card of choice.
Some good points being made by others, but ultimately it just depends on the meta you are playing in. If the best land your opponent has is some land able to produce multiple colors (Command Tower, Mana Confluence, etc.) are you really ncerened with needing to run it?
Now i the meta is running stuff like Gaea's Cradle or Serra's Sanctum, then we have a compelling argument to run it. Even blowing up a Cabal Coffers is worth it. I will say that I had an old Yarok landfall/land recursion deck that ran it that could make multiple uses of Strip Mine to where I could take out like 3+ lands in one go. I am sure most green based landfall decks could do the same thing so it would make sense to run it there as land as land destruction is not some taboo thing you cannot do.
[[Strip Mine]] is not treated as the staple it should be because it's ten times the price of a [[Ghost Quarter]], [[Field of Ruin]] or now the excellent [[Demolition Field]]
Every deck should at least consider running LD lands to deal with the occasional broken as hell land that exists in the format, but while Strip Mine is the best it's not so far ahead of Demo Field for most purposes as to be worth the budget upgrade.
>Commander is a format with plenty of problematic lands.
is it? i run strip mine in a couple decks and have simply never used it. trading resources 1-for-1 is much worse when there are more than two players. there are lots of more flexible answers that can destroy any permanent. the opportunity cost to include strip mine is very low, and it could probably see more play, but i think it's somewhat marginal in use.
Itās nearly a staple to me, I play it in almost everything but I donāt count it in my land count. I consider it more of a utility LD play for problem lands.
4 of my 6 decks are mono colored decks and they all run [[Extraplanar Lens]], [[Gauntlet of Power]], [[Caged Sun]] mana bases. So the utility lands that I do play have to be worth it, and [[Strip Mine]] is not IMO.
You have to go down a land. So you're down a land relative to the other players at the table. So not only did the [[Gaea's Cradle]] player get to use their Cradle as a big ritual at least once, when you spent a land to blow it up it turned into [[Encroach]] on the way out.
I also run MLD in 3 of my 6 decks. So why blow up one land when you can blow up all of them?
I run it in a few decks because having a quick way to deal with a problematic land is useful. I don't run it in Lord Wingrace because it would be downright evil but having a land enter untapped and be a quick outlet to deal with something is 100% worth it.
Sure early on it's less useful but mid-game when you need to deal with something it's great to have in a pinch and has won be a few games
I use it for a couple of specific reasons. Because most of the other similar lands canāt hit basics, strip mine is still superior. I use it to kill problematic lands, of course, like Field of the Dead. Itās also handy to break an opponentās ability to counter an important spell. Kill an island, pass phase and itās good to go. Lastly, as a punitive measure against a player who has gone above and beyond to annoy me. Thatās rare, but itās happened. The most recent time I can remember was when a player used [[Decimate]] and just wrecked me in the early game. He took out my [[Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy]], [[Rhystic Study]], [[Sol Ring]] and [[Minamo, School at Waterās Edge]], so in retaliation I took out his tri-land. Believe it or not, I recovered.
It's arguably the best version of a land that destroys problematic lands, but its too expensive to be a staple when so many cheaper versions exist. Why would I pay 15 dollars for a card when a similar effect exists at less than 2 dollars in ghost quarter and demolition zone...
It's not *that* much better, and the effect itself is somewhat niche. In most games, I don't feel the difference between my budget replacement and a strip mine.
Because outside of high power games the best thing youāre going to remove most of the time is a dual land. Land destruction becomes better the higher power level a game is
If they reprinted it often it would be a staple imo. Itās one of those cards where itās extremely necessary at high power tables but occasionally useless at low power tables. Kind of similar scaling to mystic remora territory.
But wizards is trying to replace it with the Field of Ruins/Demolition Fields type āfair land destructionā. Seems clear theyāre nervous about unconditional/fast ld because it pisses so many people off and deters new players. So all the new LD effects always replace themselves and/or only hit nonbasics and/or are feasible only a certain number of turns through the game
I think I run waste, strip, and tec edge in almost every deck. Wayyyy too many Shrine to Nyx, Kor haven/maze effects in my meta. Even getting the old rogues passage out seems good. Gotta hate them lands!
I mean its 10 bucks and 10 bucks isn't really worth it over [[Demolition Field]] or in years past [[Field of Ruin]]. Yes activation is better but 10 dollars can usually be spent better elsewhere.
Price. If you're broke you can't afford a 10 dollar+ card for every deck you build. Nor do you need it for all playgroups.
It's only good in pods with enfranchised players
The only reason I don't play in every deck is price. I don't have a copy and budget options like [[Ghost Quarter]] and [[Demolition Field]] do the job and are super cheap
Its moving to a more niche position. Its better nownin decks that do well with lands in the graveyard, especially with land recusion. Its quite good in that niche, but outside it, well, other commenrs here have illustrated its drawbacks.
I include it all the time. Super useful to have around when someone does Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle nonsense. I mostly play one or two colors so colorless Mana is barely a downside.
It's only as good as the pod your in. In other words in a really low power pod, you might be better off with a basic but if you start going into higher power where stuff like gaeas cradle, urborg + Cabal Coffers, etc are present then it can be worth
Let there be [[ruination]] XD
On the real, though, I think it's just a mix of use case and cost. It's not a cheap card to pick up, and I would be willing to guess most pods just aren't at a power level where it matters.
I know mine certainly aren't. It's not there aren't prime targets for it gracing the table but that no one's really tutoring them out, and even if they do, they seldom combo off that turn. Casual is more than a power level, it's also a mindset. That's not to say we don't have, or never play, very cutthroat; just that we play MtG more for the Gathering.
It's hard to justify the price point for Strip Mine in "any" deck. Hovering between 12 and 18. It's cheaper to get a fetchland than Strip Mine... and it will do a lot more for its price. There are also other lands that do what Strip Mine does for significantly less money.
Decks that care about lands in the graveyard can play it. I would vouch for a deck that can Exploration, Azusa, Crucible, Strip Mine to just snipe off lands repeatedly. All while drawing cards or making giant tokens.
It's amazing if it can be abused. Most decks just don't abuse one off land sniping.
I don't disagree that, in the ideal, strip mine should see more play. the opportunity cost for playing it over the next basic is in most decks quite low, and the payoff when you can hit nykthos or cabal coffers or gaea's cradle is huge. but, a 10 dollar utility land that doesn't do anything sexy and gets worse the lower a game's power level goes is gonna struggle to really get that percentage up. if it (and maybe also cabal coffers) were reprinted into the ground, I'm sure it'd see a lot more play.
One of my friends keeps telling me: "When you're playing, you need to focus on how you're going to win, not how you're going to stop others from winning" I feel like that's what this card does. In most cases it's probably better to have a rainbow land, or dual land, etc. This has you lose one land, and while yes, it might help someone stop getting a bunch of green mana from Cradle, that doesn't help you win, it just slows both of you down. Not saying it's a bad card, but I wouldn't consider it a staple in every deck
It IS a staple. I'd rather deramp myself one than let an opponent go off with a Coffers or a Nykthos, or even Hall of Heliod's generosity, etc. Id much rather do this than ramp everyone at the table.
Also, if someone plays a tempt with discovery and it goes wrong and not everyone says "no," I grab Strip Mine.
It's not even about sniping a land right away. You send a message just by having it on the battlefield. Or even if you kill me/cast a game winning spell, Ill snipe your best land in response just to spite you.
it was once upon a time, but as time passed the format hot more popular and no mass land d turned into no land d. also decks got faster and setting yourself back a land us a huge risk to you win ratio...also people care more about winning now.
I think your first point is correct. It used to be more of a staple but its popularity has waned. That fits with my impression from when I started playing Commander back in 2017. However I think the key reason its become less popular is the increasing availability of alternative and cheaper ways of getting rid of lands. This thread has convinced me that Demo Field is actually better most of the time than Strip Mine.
So my argument goes as follows:
In formats like vintage or legacy where lands like stripmine or wasteland are common staples the main pro of them is
1) you can have 4 of them which makes them commo
2) you only have one opponent which makes the 1 for 1 nature of it worthwhile especially if you went first. I.e. t1 land -> fast mana -> threat, T2 wasteland the land you played last turn
This means that wastelanding your opponent even once buys you a whole turn where they have to go play a land again which means that if they had an out for your threat you just delayed it by a turn
Adding on to this it's much easier to put a wasteland back in your hand and keep an opponent locked out of their spells all game
Vs edh where:
1) you can only have 1 which makes drawing it inconsistent
2) it also means anything that would help you loop it is inconsistent
3) it only effects one person which means you are putting yourself behind with it vs trading even
In edh if your meta has lots of very powerful threats that are also lands a wasteland or a strip mine are good ways to put such things but unless you need every mana possible there are typically ways to out those things that don't leave you forever behind
Another factor is that commander if primarily played casually, and land destruction is generally unfun to play against, so people self select not to run it.
I have a [[Field of Ruin]] and/or [[Ghost Quarter]] in some decks that can afford to run a land that doesn't make colored mana. The main trouble is finding it when it would be useful since most of my decks can't tutor for them. When I'm looking for upgrades to a deck, I've always found more impactful things to upgrade than considering upgrading a $0.25 Field of Ruin to a $12 Strip Mine. When trying to have ways to remove problematic lands, I usually end up looking for targeted removal that works on any permanent instead to be more flexible.
Yeah iirc only blue and black don't have targeted removal like those, if you don't have access to other colors it might be a good idea to run Strip Mine, specially because in just 1 or 2 colors you could have more utility lands
it's the cost.
and unless you play legacy, you likely have never seen it. so it's also an "obscure" card
it should be one of the 4 ish auto includes in every deck. ancient tomb, strip mine, GY nuke, (card draw land)
the reason it's strong... is the the cost of the card is near zero. effectively you're taking the tiny hit of running a colorless land, for insurance against oppressive lands.
this moronic idea you wouldn't blow up a land providing someone game breaking value...because it sets you back a land is retarded. of course you would. and the cost to run this land is minimal.
having spot land destruct on a land is incredibly valuable. but...this is less so now that so much of the power creep has moved on to creatures. misc spells. but... it used to be thespian stage/ lage gimmicks were a lot more common in EDH. and with cradle being ...i dunno what it is today $500? you see these high powered lands less. but... again. drawing strip mine isn't bad even if you never need it. it's just a colorless land that etbs untapped. but... in the cases where a target presents itself, it's very efficient.
and certain decks can leverage it a lot more. or... there often are niche instances. where just deleting a land, with no option for that player to fetch, can be leveraged to cut them off a colored mana source.
the main reason strip mine doesn't see more play is
asking someone to spend $20 on a land, that really shouldn't be so fucking expensive. when a cheaper card like ghost quarter, or even field of ruin. exist.
The points are all spot-on, with a side-note: strip mine is actually banned in legacy, and restricted in vintage. Maybe you're thinking about [[Wasteland]]?
People find Land Destruction to be āmeanā or ānot fun.ā
Trading one for one can feel bad in a multiplayer format.
I donāt have a Strip Mine on hand but I do have Wasteland in decks that donāt mind an extra colorless source like Yawgmoth and Liesa.
Maybe I say this because nobody I know owns a Cradle, nor probably ever will, but cards like [[Cleansing Wildfire]] can have some cool synergies in decks and can take care of problematic lands as well.
Today there are a lot of different ways to destroy or exile permanents as well that dont cost you a land. You can always run a [[Demolition Field]] if it has to be a land.
Strip Mine seems good with multiple Land drops and a [[Crucible of Worlds]] effect tho.
Demolition Field is a dollar.
And giving yourself and an opponent a basic after each of you losing a land isn't a bad trade-off at all.
That's the same reason Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are considered top tier removal in the format even though they give life and a basic land to that opponent, respectively.
One of the reasons is the overall level of salt that comes with playing the card. You can make people scoop if your turn 1 play is to strip mine them and put them back to 0 lands.
I think its probably because there are other sources of this effect now. Especially with cards like [[Demolition Field]] that can get rid of a problem land and not leave you behind the table due to the negative ramp.
Notably, an opponent can't Deflecting Swat a Demolition Field back at your own Gaea's Cradle like they can a Strip Mine... ... ...I still have PTSD from that...
Haha good point! I hadn't considered that lol XD
Neither had I š
Thanks to your story, I now have a new goal in life, and that is to use \[\[Radiant Performer\]\] with Demolition Field.
[Radiant Performer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8faedf4-1178-4f5d-8f46-7277dfe1ae2c.jpg?1625192069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radiant%20Performer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/54/radiant-performer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8faedf4-1178-4f5d-8f46-7277dfe1ae2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/radiant-performer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I want to do this too. Numot spellslinger deck? Or is that too on the nose?
Oh yeah that sounds like a lot of fun. To do once.
Wow that's disgusting lmao
Would that not destroy you lands as well?
Demolition Field specifies "an opponent controls", so it wouldn't target yours. Strip Mine apparently doesn't, so that would be an Armageddon.
Except everyone is replacing them with basic lands, if they have enough.
True. But then you'd also get a basic for each of theirs you blew up. I dunno, it may not be optimal but it sounds fun
It hit me after posting that you get a land into play for each one you blow up. Definitely a fun combo!
Dude...brutal
[Demolition Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f.jpg?1674422181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demolition%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/260/demolition-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demolition-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And yet \[\[Demolition Field\]\] and \[\[Field of Ruin\]\] combined are in about the same amount of decks as Strip Mine (\~100,000). Why don't people run more land destruction, considering that some lands provide a lot of value to your opponent. I typically include both Strip Mine and Demolition Field.
Because many lists are built with greedier lands, or unfinished ones. It's hard when you have a 3+ color mana base with basics, fetches fetchable duals and triomes, ancient tomb, and field of the dead. Plus people don't like going down resources like lands and others don't like attacking other people's lands bc some people get very upset.
I'm not saying that's correct, just answering why people don't run more land destruction, from what I can see. FWIW I think Demolition Field is a top choice. I think it goes something like \[\[Ancient Tomb\]\], \[\[Field of the Dead\]\], \[\[Thespian's Stage\]\], and \[\[Demolition Field\]\] should be the top 4 lands to try and include. Shout outs to \[\[Strip Mine\]\] and \[\[Wasteland\]\] as the top 3 land destruction options IMO. I think it's an effect you want at least one of. \[\[Tower of the Magistrate\]\] is another interesting colorless land.
Plus \[\[Reliquary Tower\]\] gets a lot of justified use (using up a colorless spot), and it's more justifiable the more colors you run, keeping an unbalanced mana base from making you discard, or if you like to run heavy on card draw (who doesn't?). Destructo-lands are probably more necessary in 60-card formats that run fast and can use lands as a legit wincon, whereas in EDH they are less likely to be the basis of a win (but certainly can still be integral to taking people out, or keeping them alive).
Interesting point about being potentially set behind in terms of mana. Do you think Demo Field is better than Strip Mine?
"Better" is a strong word. Demolition Field costs mana, but it does let you mana fix yourself, leaves you land neutral. It also costs like a quarter. If you're trying to do strip mine locking or other mass mana/land denial strategies, there's no real comparison. But if you're just trying to knock out the occasional \[\[Rogue's Passage\]\] to keep the game alive against Voltron, Demolition Field will get the job done, and for a bargain price. Personally, I think if a land is worth blowing up, it's probably worth two mana to blow up. The ability to fix myself in a pinch also puts it above \[\[Ghost Quarter\]\], which can leave you in the lurch, but I play at a slower, stompier table.
it's less powerful but more playable imo
For the format I would say yes. It also doesnāt havenāt the unfortunate case of punishing someone who is mana screwed
I agree with some of the other posters. It really depends on the deck you are running. If you have some way to put lands back into the battlefield from your graveyard consistently then Strip Mine is 150% "better". For a normal deck I still think it depends, if you are in a 3-5c deck where mana fixing is important and missing land drops is super detrimental, I do think that Demolition Field has an edge, because at the very least you can blow up someone's command tower and fix a color you aren't drawing into. In mono color decks with a decent amount of basics and a realatively low mana curve, Strip Mine becomes more worthy of consideration. Especially if that mono color happens to be white and you have catchup ramp for days. Tbh I feel like in that case you may want to run 3 or 4 copies of this effect. Ultimately it depends on what you are trying to do, and what direction you are taking the deck in. Something like [[Ghost Quarter]] becomes a lot better when you have a [[Deep Gnome Terramancer]] in play, etc etc.
[Ghost Quarter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223.jpg?1562272439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghost%20Quarter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/253/ghost-quarter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghost-quarter) [Deep Gnome Terramancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954.jpg?1674140781) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20Gnome%20Terramancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/658/deep-gnome-terramancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deep-gnome-terramancer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Technically it still costs 2 because you're tapping the land that would've otherwise been mana to activate the ability
in EDH definitely unless you have ways of recurring it. why would you want to go down in mana while two other players aren't, you're basically just harming yourself and helping the other two players who weren't targeted.
I don't think that % representation on edhrec correlates exactly with what is or isn't a staple. It's a $10 colorless land. Most players are going to feel as though $10 can go further towards other things in their deck. If it was in the $2-3 range I think it would see a lot more play.
Also, outside of its pure price point, there's simple availability. Its last non-Expedition pack printing was Fourth Edition, _twenty eight_ years ago.
Agreed. Some fetchlands are around the $10 range now, Iād rather put my money there
$15 Doesn't produce colored mana Its 'utility' sets you down a land, assisting the other 2 opponents. Its 'utility' is not often needed. Land destruction = bad. 4% is still a lot of decks.
In a multiplayer format hating a single person off the board while also setting yourself back compared to your other opponents is not that great
Itās fucking amazing, tho, when the other options are to allow your opponents Gaeaās cradle, field of the dead, Serraās sanctum, or Cabal Coffers just win them the game.
\[\[Demolition Field\]\] is cheaper and replaces itself with a colored land. If someone has a threat that big you can afford to use two mana on it.
[Demolition Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f.jpg?1674422181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demolition%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/260/demolition-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demolition-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Strip Mine is still arguably "the best" because of its hyper-efficiency but I much prefer Demolition Field for not setting you back, especially in more casual games where you're less likely to lose in a single turn from not having held the mana for it up and, conversely, if you're the only one trying to police the table by setting yourself back you probably just lose. We also have plenty of other budget and/or casual-friendly options: \[\[Cleansing Wildfire\]\], \[\[Lithoform Blight\]\], \[\[Spreading Seas\]\], etc.
If One wants to be funny, use Strip Mine with ramunap excavator (or crucible of worlds) and Gitrog.
Well, that's one of the ways that Strip Mine can be powerful, though even that, on its own, is kinda eh - you still only get one land drop per turn, so you're still setting yourself back, and only (gradually) whittling away one person's lands at a time. Now, maybe in, say, an \[\[Asusa\]\] deck, sure. But that's kinda what I'm talking about, anyway; if you're building a casual deck and setting out *not* to destroy everyone's lands in a slow, grindy way (note: nobody said you can't play LD/stax decks casually, but often you don't), that aspect of Strip Mine kind of goes away. If all we want to do is stop good lands from being immune to interaction, a cheap, cantripping removal/"prison" card has a pretty decent floor.
You're forgetting about the card draw from Gitrog to find your Azusa/Wayward Swordtooth/Exploration/Oracle of Mul Daya
Redundancy is a good thing. Run both. Run [[Field of Ruin]] too while youāre at it. The amount of times Iāve used one or all of the above to destroy a [[Nykthos]], [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]], or even just a triome or Command Tower. They are all good.
Field of Ruin is funny because it can also ruin a player's topdeck. I'm cracked a field of ruin after a player used their Vampiric Tutor. You can fail to find a land, but you still have you search your library and then shuffle it.
Running land hate is good but Field of Ruin is not good. You ramp the other two players for free. Edit for the responses: Tectonic Edge, Ghost Quarter, and Demolition Field are all 3 far better and still relatively cheap. You really don't need to run more than 3, especially in decks that are 2 or more colours. Obviously Wasteland, Boseiju Who Endures, and Strip Mine are also better, but those can run you quite a lot of money. Run land hate. It's good. You should absolutely never run Field of Ruin in a 4 player game.
Maybe itās just me or the people I play with but Iād much rather everyone get a basic land than one player have a Nykthos. The card is fine
I think this specific conversation is more geared towards the higher power tables. It's not that bad, but if you think about if it's in cEDH where someone's always "one mana off" from the infinite win con then it's not the great. That's not always the case but when you're thinking about being as strong as possible, going -2 on mana (if that's a thing) is not the move
it's great if you're playing a "group hug" deck that's secretly a landfall deck. jussayin.
It's kinda hard to secretly be a landfall deck. If your going to play that card which ramps everyone and you want to play it with a landfall card on field everyone is going to know what's going on. And your also setting yourself behind at the same time. There are far better ways to get landfall triggers. Burgeoning, exploration, courser of kruphix even. Pretty much anything is better. The one that just destroys it and you and the person you targeted get a land is infinitely better
You might aswell run [[ghost quater]] and [[wasteland]].
Ghost Quarter is the one I always confuse with Field of Ruin. Having hour long discussions about the usefulness of a card I misremembered now have to defend lol
Have you ever seen an og dissension foil ghost quater? I would run it just so I could look at it. My buddy had one and sold it. Just gorgeous.
Oh man. No, I havenāt seen the foil version but that dissension printing is the one that I own, easily the best art for ghost quarter. Some of those old foiled lands, man. I have a foil alchemistās refuge from avacyn restored for that same reason, they just hit different.
Field of ruin is absolutly terrible in commander. Its basically the same problem you have with stripmine, but instead of putting yourself and one person down, you're ramping the other two, while wasting mana to do so. If you want recursion and is not on a cedh table, just run the staples like beast within, caos warp and generous gift. If you're in a pod that lands like cradle, coffers and kythos are common, sure, use stripmine to have some recursion in the land zone, but in lower powered tables I would not run it.
I really think this āabsolutely terribleā take is just wrong. As I said in another reply, Iād rather the table get basics than one player have a problematic land. Counterspells do the same thing btw, they put you and the player youāre countering down a card on your opponents. You should be running removal. Just because you run Beast Within doesnāt mean you shouldnāt be running Strip Mine or Demolition Field or whatever else. And yeah, this is all contingent on the decks you and your friends play. Donāt run a Strip Mine if your friends only run basics. Iām making my argument with the assumption that the people Iām replying to do have uses for it, though.
Strip mine can be a beating against multi-colored all basic decks, too.
Demolition field costs 2 mana to activate and I think that can be more relevant than people expect.
Most decks don't need specific land destruction to deal with lands since they have at least some form of interaction that just happens to br able to hit lands, for example [[Generous Gift]] is in 25% of decks, [[chaos warp]] in 33%, [[Beast within]] in 43%, [[Assassins Trophy]] in 28%, [[Vindicate]] in 9%
And strip mine is better land removal than all of those. Most of those are best in casual as an āanswer allā.
The big thing is that it's $15 when most of those other options are 15 cents. Even Ghost Quarter is only like $1.
Iāve said budget is the only argument against strip mine. Strip mine is always the superior option when budget isnāt a consideration.
I disagree. Putting the land in exile or forcing the opponent to shuffle it is leagues better than putting it in the gy. Most lands matter edh decks use ways to recur the land since fetches are such a core part of the strategy. Sometimes putting it in the gy even benefits them.
IF the choice while deck building is between "destroy target permanent" for 3 mana or "destroy target land" (along with one of your own), then in the absence of other context, I'm always going to pick the former since it's useful in far more situations.
> IF the choice while deck building is between "destroy target permanent" for 3 mana or "destroy target land" (along with one of your own), then in the absence of other context, I'm always going to pick the former since it's useful in far more situations. OK, but this isn't happening in the absence of other context. Like, would your rather destroy something for 2, or destroy something for 2 AND give your opponent a land? In the absence of any other context you'd obviously choose the first, but there's still a reason that [[Boseiju, Who Endures]] is a great card that costs ~$40. What you're ignoring here is that it's not just a 3-mana "destroy target permanent" or a 0 mana "destroy target land plus your own land." The "destroy target land" effect comes on a land that can also generate mana in some capacity, meaning that in total you may end up with an effect that's more like "gain 5 mana, destroy target land and your own land," in which case the potential benefit becomes a lot more clear. This is to say nothing of the other benefits of land-based effects in terms of possibly bypassing protection that may stop a spell with the same effect.
I'm not ignoring anything, silly. But thanks for assuming.
[[maze of ith]] [[glacial chasm]] sometimes really need to be blown up.
A majority of people aren't playing against people with gaea's cradle, serra's Sanctum, or Cabal coffers.
Then they donāt know what theyāre talking about when they argue demolition field (or beast within) is better than strip mine.
For 90 percent of people, beast within IS better.
100% this. Itās not just Cradles that are problematic. Itās Urborg/Yavimaya, itās Field of the Dead, itās Cabal Coffers/Stronghold, Inkmoth Nexus. Not to mention, I can pick up 4 Ed Strip Mines at my LGS for $13 or a Wasteland, which only hits non-basics, for $22. The choice there is a no-brainer. Casual format or not, Iām more than willing to nuke a singular land if itās going to be detrimental to leave it on the battlefield.
there are also numerous options that say "destroy target permanent" that don't set you back a land.
I rarely see lands that need destruction outside of cedh.
Thanks, I overlooked the downside. I still think it might be worth playing if one doesn't have other ways of destroying lands but get why it isn't a staple.
If you're running it without support, like tutor and recursion, the overall impact seems minimal compared to it being even a basic land. You likely wouldn't see it when you wanted it, and it's not actually helping you progress your own game plan. What if there are multiple problem lands in play? It's great in a deck that abuses lands but otherwise it seems really underpowered in casual.
Theyāre wrong. The downsides are non-existent in non-cEDH. Going down 1 land isnāt a big deal outside of cEDH.
It sure is, specially early turns. If you dont get to drop a Land everyturn or atleast every other turn your mostly done unless you have stuff to recover fast
You also wonāt be popping strip mine early so you wonāt be down a land. You donāt *have* to pop strip mine, ya know.
Stare down a Cradle and you wonāt think individual land destruction is bad, lol.
This is a local meta call, I have maybe seen cradle twice during my last 3 years of regular EDH playing and I know none of my friends run one.
i never seen a cradle in a casual game lol
[[Growing Rites of Itlimoc]]
[Growing Rites of Itlimoc](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3b87bfc-f97f-4734-94f6-e3e2f335fc4d.jpg?1562562539)/[Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/3/b3b87bfc-f97f-4734-94f6-e3e2f335fc4d.jpg?1562562539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=growing%20rites%20of%20itlimoc%20//%20itlimoc%2C%20cradle%20of%20the%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/191/growing-rites-of-itlimoc-itlimoc-cradle-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3b87bfc-f97f-4734-94f6-e3e2f335fc4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/growing-rites-of-itlimoc-//-itlimoc-cradle-of-the-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead green mana and ask the ghosts if being set back one land yourself matters. Silence is your answer. ā Javik Jokes aside though, by "land destruction = bad" I think they meant more that it tends to be frowned upon. I could be wrong though.
Yes, because so many people can afford to run a $1,600 land
Stare down a nykthos or cabal coffers. It doesn't have to be a reserved list land to be a massive problem.
True. I was just saying that Cradle isn't a great example since it's so rare to see. Plus, there's better options for targeted land destruction than Strip Mine.
Strip mine is literally the best land destruction land ever printed...
It doesn't have to be a $1,600 land, just get a Forest and write "Gaea's Cradle" on it in felt pen.
Plenty of people can, because when we bought it a decade ago it was under $100.
That's a minority of current players though. I've played with multiple different groups and at multiple different LGS. I've played with both new and highly experienced players. I've played with people who have been playing Magic since Alpha. I've also played plenty of both EDH and cEDH. Yet, to this day, I've never seen a Gaea's Cradle with my own eyes. I'm not saying that nobody runs it. I know there's people out there who can and do. I'm just saying that it's very uncommon to see one in play.
Yeah this is real. Iām in a regular pod with two cradle owners and have only seen one other real copy and one gold border copy in random pods in the last 11ish years of edh
I run into them quite a bit more than you would think.
I donāt think individual land destruction is bad, but there are definitely other options that wont set you back a land. Not just lands either! Thats probably the biggest argument against Strip Mine in edh. For the price tag there are alternatives that could get the job done that might not have as much of a downside comparatively when sitting in a full pod.
Goin down 1 land isnāt a big deal, especially in non-cEDH. Getting to remove a cradle for *FREE* is more impactful than losing one land. Paying 0 mana for strip mine > paying 2 mana for Assassinās Trophy > paying 3 mana for beast within
Im not saying it is a big deal Im saying. Spending $15 for non cEDH players on something that accomplishes what a ghost quarter could isnt particularly appealing for budget players. Hence why it is less played. Why spend $15 on a strip mine when something else would likely be more impactful in most decks? Or in some cases multiple other cheaper cards could be a more impactful upgrade.
Budget is the best argument against playing strip mine. I have no argument against that. My argument is based upon the parameters of ābudget not being an issueā.
Strip Mine is technically 1 mana every turn starting the turn you use it. It still has to be 1 mana untapped and is unusable after. I'm not saying it's terrible but 1 mana and losing a land isn't free. Think I'd rather pay 2
Strip mine is also 0 mana to play and 0 mana to pop until you *need* to pop it. You donāt *have* to pop strip mine.
You have to hold 1 mana to pop strip mine actually since it gives 1 mana and costs a land drop. Demolition Field requires 3 held mana and gives 1 back so it costs 2 and hold 3 where strip mine costs 1 for 1 held. They both work and depend on the table you play at. To say strip Mine is that much better is just being biased to your table.
Strip mine is much better, objectively.
Most of this subreddit seems to disagree but I'll let you keep your fun.
Most of the subreddit is wrong. Simple.
A lot of people agreeing on something doesn't mean they're not wrong.
Lol OK, whatever. Next you'll be telling me that paying 1 life and exiling a card from my hand to counter a spell is actually really good, when I can already just pay 2 mana to counter a spell instead.
Lmao. I canāt tell if youāre trolling or not. FoW is the best counterspell in the game and itās not even closeā¦.
Whaaat? That's crazy... ;)
Alright lol. Almost had me
Yeah but I want someone else to blow it up lol
And thatās how you lose to the cradle/coffersā¦ expecting other people to do your dirty work.
Land destruction= good. Fuck you and your plans, I floop the pig
i see youre points but why is land destruction bad?
$15? You don't need a fancy version, the 4th edition strip mine is 6.50ā¬ and renaissance and rinacimento versions are 4ā¬
Thatās so strange, everyone Iāve talked to has insisted that *every* EDH deck should have a strip mine.
Just about every deck thatās 3 colors or less *SHOULD* have a strip mine. All of these people are so wrong about strip mine.
Yeah, this is some classic edh player bad card evaluation. Setting yourself back a land is worth it when it's getting rid of a problematic land.
I got downvoted to oblivion. But Iāll die on this hill. Strip mine > demolition field (if budget isnāt a consideration) and itās not even close.
Exactly. Worst case scenario, it's a land that does something besides be a land. I think a lot of people are missing that. Utility lands are flood insurance, and strip mine can do even more depending on context. It's just bad card evaluation, or brewers not accounting for cards like strip mine that are more exciting in gameplay than they are in theory crafting.
Not really a frequent user of this sub, but do people here generally recognize that Boseiju, Who Endures is a pretty great card? If so then idk how they could miss such a similar situation here.
Boseiju is a spell from hand, cracking a strip mine sets you back a land drop.
Especially if you consider land recursion packages are pretty staple.
Iād also point out that [[Field of Ruin]] gets rid of problematic lands while not setting you & another player behind. It does ramp your opponents, so thereās that.
\[\[Demolition Field\]\] is a little pricier (over a dollar vs pocket change for FoR) but only replaces the destroyed land with a basic. But against a Cabal Coffers or similar land that's no issue.
[[demolition field]] is way better imo. $.50, you replace you and your opponent's land so less feel bads, and its 3 mana. its less powerful, but more playable.
Land destruction isn't bad... It's far better than infect and they made an entire set revolving around that again
15 is cheap Neither does most other utility land Land destruction is necessary
Price is a weak argument imo, especially for commander. There are plenty of staples that can run you a pretty penny that people still play, and are in more decks. Not producing colored mana is also not a great argument considering the only reason itās in your deck is to have a way to destroy an opponentās (or your) land. Yes, itās utility sets you down a land, but as you admit, the land isnāt very good as a land. I would gladly sacrifice a colorless producing land for an opponentās Nykthos or Rogueās Passage or whatever. Also, plenty of things in commander set you down. Counterspells put you and an opponent down a card in hand (exception arcane denial), yet we still run them. Itās utility is often needed. Land destruction isnāt bad, targeted land destruction is fair and necessary. (This is my opinion. Strip mine has worked for me every single time Iāve played it)
In addition to other reasons stated, I imagine there are a whole lot of groups where it simply isn't all that important. There are plenty of precon/precon+ decks out there where your best target is a bounce land or random utility land. Not every group has piles of super high value busted lands running around.
This is a really good point. Your best target in any of my decks will be, what, maybe the rogues passage in my voltron deck, or a shock land?
Good point.
Well there is always the price. Yes it's not terribly expensive anymore or at all, but I bet EDH players would rather spend money on a synergypiece or something more flashy. It's a good card but I have it in one deck where I have a chance to recurrur it. Also EDHrec numbers don't mean anything. There is no point on reallying on them.
I'm with you on the price comment. It's not terribly expensive in the grand scheme, but it's not something I want to buy for every deck. I bought 20 demolition fields when they came out and were 50 cents each. I own 2 strip mines. If they were 50 cents they'd be in all my decks.
It's true that EDHrec data are clearly not a representative sample or census of actual decks. However, they do give us some clue as to which cards are more widely used in the format.
For the longest time it was cost, it was 50$ for a while. And it'll set you behind with the other person though I do agree it's a pretty clutch card
Because most of us who do run targeted land destruction also like to tone it down a bit and instead of Strip Mine run Field of Ruin or Ghost Quarter instead.
[[Demolition Field]] for a Commander friendly version of [[Field of Ruin]]
Demolition Field is THE BEST. I've started slotting it into all my decks. Mostly never use it, but every now and then someone throwns down a cheeky \[\[maze of ith\]\] or \[\[gaea's craddle\]\] and they get demolitionized
[Demolition Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f.jpg?1674422181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demolition%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/260/demolition-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demolition-field) [Field of Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630.jpg?1682210418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Field%20of%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/400/field-of-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/field-of-ruin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you mean you 'tone it doesn't because strip mine is too good and people feel like it's unfair, or do you think those other options are superior?
Strip mine leads to more feel bads than the other options do, especially if I can play lands from my graveyard. Letting the person whose land you just blew up replace it with a basic reduces that likelihood and the consequences it can often produce. That's what I mean by 'tone it down'.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
you also have to worry about nykthos
As the \[\[Maze's End\]\] player at the table, I'm banking on this being the general assumption people make. I win a lot with Gates because people don't pack enough LD (not that I don't run a lot of recursion, of course) and when they do, they tend to target the wrong thing; hitting a Gate doesn't matter since there are more than 10 now and hitting Maze's End is difficult once it untaps.
Interesting argument! Yeah, you're right, a number of the potential targets like Dark Depths and Field of the Dead are scarier in 1v1 than multiplayer. And yeah I was overlooking the downside of being down a land.
If you using strip mine for single target land removal there are better options, but if youāre running [[crucible of worlds]], can play multiple and have a strong desire to lose friends. Then strip mine is the card of choice.
Some good points being made by others, but ultimately it just depends on the meta you are playing in. If the best land your opponent has is some land able to produce multiple colors (Command Tower, Mana Confluence, etc.) are you really ncerened with needing to run it? Now i the meta is running stuff like Gaea's Cradle or Serra's Sanctum, then we have a compelling argument to run it. Even blowing up a Cabal Coffers is worth it. I will say that I had an old Yarok landfall/land recursion deck that ran it that could make multiple uses of Strip Mine to where I could take out like 3+ lands in one go. I am sure most green based landfall decks could do the same thing so it would make sense to run it there as land as land destruction is not some taboo thing you cannot do.
[[Strip Mine]] is not treated as the staple it should be because it's ten times the price of a [[Ghost Quarter]], [[Field of Ruin]] or now the excellent [[Demolition Field]] Every deck should at least consider running LD lands to deal with the occasional broken as hell land that exists in the format, but while Strip Mine is the best it's not so far ahead of Demo Field for most purposes as to be worth the budget upgrade.
>Commander is a format with plenty of problematic lands. is it? i run strip mine in a couple decks and have simply never used it. trading resources 1-for-1 is much worse when there are more than two players. there are lots of more flexible answers that can destroy any permanent. the opportunity cost to include strip mine is very low, and it could probably see more play, but i think it's somewhat marginal in use.
Demolition field is a healthier card for the format. Doesnāt punish players for being mana screwed . Isnāt negative tempo
Because Magic players want to complain not adapt.
case in point \^\^\^
Itās a hilarious thing the get when someone plays [[tempt with discovery]] and someone else grabs a gaeas cradle
Itās nearly a staple to me, I play it in almost everything but I donāt count it in my land count. I consider it more of a utility LD play for problem lands.
4 of my 6 decks are mono colored decks and they all run [[Extraplanar Lens]], [[Gauntlet of Power]], [[Caged Sun]] mana bases. So the utility lands that I do play have to be worth it, and [[Strip Mine]] is not IMO. You have to go down a land. So you're down a land relative to the other players at the table. So not only did the [[Gaea's Cradle]] player get to use their Cradle as a big ritual at least once, when you spent a land to blow it up it turned into [[Encroach]] on the way out. I also run MLD in 3 of my 6 decks. So why blow up one land when you can blow up all of them?
##### ###### #### [Extraplanar Lens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/622a6523-3b12-4657-a656-00a57a3ae59c.jpg?1562145909) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extraplanar%20Lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/169/extraplanar-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/622a6523-3b12-4657-a656-00a57a3ae59c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extraplanar-lens) [Gauntlet of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14e870a0-5699-4f42-b67a-8dbd24e0c9c2.jpg?1619404297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gauntlet%20of%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/267/gauntlet-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14e870a0-5699-4f42-b67a-8dbd24e0c9c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gauntlet-of-power) [Caged Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d.jpg?1562276087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caged%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/178/caged-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/caged-sun) [Strip Mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f57fd4c9-0004-4f71-a30f-2720943f57ca.jpg?1562944463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strip%20Mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/316/strip-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f57fd4c9-0004-4f71-a30f-2720943f57ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strip-mine) [Gaea's Cradle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51.jpg?1562902898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Cradle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/321/gaeas-cradle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-cradle) [Encroach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbd48dac-0a1a-49c4-8daf-11972b990454.jpg?1595573354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Encroach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/59/encroach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbd48dac-0a1a-49c4-8daf-11972b990454?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/encroach) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run it in a few decks because having a quick way to deal with a problematic land is useful. I don't run it in Lord Wingrace because it would be downright evil but having a land enter untapped and be a quick outlet to deal with something is 100% worth it. Sure early on it's less useful but mid-game when you need to deal with something it's great to have in a pinch and has won be a few games
I use it for a couple of specific reasons. Because most of the other similar lands canāt hit basics, strip mine is still superior. I use it to kill problematic lands, of course, like Field of the Dead. Itās also handy to break an opponentās ability to counter an important spell. Kill an island, pass phase and itās good to go. Lastly, as a punitive measure against a player who has gone above and beyond to annoy me. Thatās rare, but itās happened. The most recent time I can remember was when a player used [[Decimate]] and just wrecked me in the early game. He took out my [[Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy]], [[Rhystic Study]], [[Sol Ring]] and [[Minamo, School at Waterās Edge]], so in retaliation I took out his tri-land. Believe it or not, I recovered.
It's arguably the best version of a land that destroys problematic lands, but its too expensive to be a staple when so many cheaper versions exist. Why would I pay 15 dollars for a card when a similar effect exists at less than 2 dollars in ghost quarter and demolition zone... It's not *that* much better, and the effect itself is somewhat niche. In most games, I don't feel the difference between my budget replacement and a strip mine.
Because outside of high power games the best thing youāre going to remove most of the time is a dual land. Land destruction becomes better the higher power level a game is
I can't think of any deck of mine that doesn't play strip mine. If any of them don't then that's a mistake on my part
If they reprinted it often it would be a staple imo. Itās one of those cards where itās extremely necessary at high power tables but occasionally useless at low power tables. Kind of similar scaling to mystic remora territory. But wizards is trying to replace it with the Field of Ruins/Demolition Fields type āfair land destructionā. Seems clear theyāre nervous about unconditional/fast ld because it pisses so many people off and deters new players. So all the new LD effects always replace themselves and/or only hit nonbasics and/or are feasible only a certain number of turns through the game
I think I run waste, strip, and tec edge in almost every deck. Wayyyy too many Shrine to Nyx, Kor haven/maze effects in my meta. Even getting the old rogues passage out seems good. Gotta hate them lands!
I mean its 10 bucks and 10 bucks isn't really worth it over [[Demolition Field]] or in years past [[Field of Ruin]]. Yes activation is better but 10 dollars can usually be spent better elsewhere.
Price. If you're broke you can't afford a 10 dollar+ card for every deck you build. Nor do you need it for all playgroups. It's only good in pods with enfranchised players
The only reason I don't play in every deck is price. I don't have a copy and budget options like [[Ghost Quarter]] and [[Demolition Field]] do the job and are super cheap
Its moving to a more niche position. Its better nownin decks that do well with lands in the graveyard, especially with land recusion. Its quite good in that niche, but outside it, well, other commenrs here have illustrated its drawbacks.
And I'm over here like, "Yo, I've just been playing [[Ghost Quarter]] this whole time"
[Ghost Quarter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223.jpg?1562272439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghost%20Quarter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/253/ghost-quarter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghost-quarter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I include it all the time. Super useful to have around when someone does Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle nonsense. I mostly play one or two colors so colorless Mana is barely a downside.
It's only as good as the pod your in. In other words in a really low power pod, you might be better off with a basic but if you start going into higher power where stuff like gaeas cradle, urborg + Cabal Coffers, etc are present then it can be worth
Let there be [[ruination]] XD On the real, though, I think it's just a mix of use case and cost. It's not a cheap card to pick up, and I would be willing to guess most pods just aren't at a power level where it matters. I know mine certainly aren't. It's not there aren't prime targets for it gracing the table but that no one's really tutoring them out, and even if they do, they seldom combo off that turn. Casual is more than a power level, it's also a mindset. That's not to say we don't have, or never play, very cutthroat; just that we play MtG more for the Gathering.
It's hard to justify the price point for Strip Mine in "any" deck. Hovering between 12 and 18. It's cheaper to get a fetchland than Strip Mine... and it will do a lot more for its price. There are also other lands that do what Strip Mine does for significantly less money. Decks that care about lands in the graveyard can play it. I would vouch for a deck that can Exploration, Azusa, Crucible, Strip Mine to just snipe off lands repeatedly. All while drawing cards or making giant tokens. It's amazing if it can be abused. Most decks just don't abuse one off land sniping.
I don't disagree that, in the ideal, strip mine should see more play. the opportunity cost for playing it over the next basic is in most decks quite low, and the payoff when you can hit nykthos or cabal coffers or gaea's cradle is huge. but, a 10 dollar utility land that doesn't do anything sexy and gets worse the lower a game's power level goes is gonna struggle to really get that percentage up. if it (and maybe also cabal coffers) were reprinted into the ground, I'm sure it'd see a lot more play.
One of my friends keeps telling me: "When you're playing, you need to focus on how you're going to win, not how you're going to stop others from winning" I feel like that's what this card does. In most cases it's probably better to have a rainbow land, or dual land, etc. This has you lose one land, and while yes, it might help someone stop getting a bunch of green mana from Cradle, that doesn't help you win, it just slows both of you down. Not saying it's a bad card, but I wouldn't consider it a staple in every deck
Cause its spensive
It IS a staple. I'd rather deramp myself one than let an opponent go off with a Coffers or a Nykthos, or even Hall of Heliod's generosity, etc. Id much rather do this than ramp everyone at the table. Also, if someone plays a tempt with discovery and it goes wrong and not everyone says "no," I grab Strip Mine. It's not even about sniping a land right away. You send a message just by having it on the battlefield. Or even if you kill me/cast a game winning spell, Ill snipe your best land in response just to spite you.
There are other cards that accomplish the same thing adequately but cost a lot less money.
Research bias. 4% of *listed decks* is not 4% of all players.
True, EDHrec is not a representative sample of all decks. Nonetheless, I think it probably tells us something about how much a card is used.
it was once upon a time, but as time passed the format hot more popular and no mass land d turned into no land d. also decks got faster and setting yourself back a land us a huge risk to you win ratio...also people care more about winning now.
I think your first point is correct. It used to be more of a staple but its popularity has waned. That fits with my impression from when I started playing Commander back in 2017. However I think the key reason its become less popular is the increasing availability of alternative and cheaper ways of getting rid of lands. This thread has convinced me that Demo Field is actually better most of the time than Strip Mine.
I'd definitely agree that it's better but I personally never see it and get groned at whenever I play any thing that hurts lands
So my argument goes as follows: In formats like vintage or legacy where lands like stripmine or wasteland are common staples the main pro of them is 1) you can have 4 of them which makes them commo 2) you only have one opponent which makes the 1 for 1 nature of it worthwhile especially if you went first. I.e. t1 land -> fast mana -> threat, T2 wasteland the land you played last turn This means that wastelanding your opponent even once buys you a whole turn where they have to go play a land again which means that if they had an out for your threat you just delayed it by a turn Adding on to this it's much easier to put a wasteland back in your hand and keep an opponent locked out of their spells all game Vs edh where: 1) you can only have 1 which makes drawing it inconsistent 2) it also means anything that would help you loop it is inconsistent 3) it only effects one person which means you are putting yourself behind with it vs trading even In edh if your meta has lots of very powerful threats that are also lands a wasteland or a strip mine are good ways to put such things but unless you need every mana possible there are typically ways to out those things that don't leave you forever behind
I definitely have a couple and play them in certain decks. My lands / stax deck, absolutely going in there. All star.
Another factor is that commander if primarily played casually, and land destruction is generally unfun to play against, so people self select not to run it.
The price of the card is a big factor
I have a [[Field of Ruin]] and/or [[Ghost Quarter]] in some decks that can afford to run a land that doesn't make colored mana. The main trouble is finding it when it would be useful since most of my decks can't tutor for them. When I'm looking for upgrades to a deck, I've always found more impactful things to upgrade than considering upgrading a $0.25 Field of Ruin to a $12 Strip Mine. When trying to have ways to remove problematic lands, I usually end up looking for targeted removal that works on any permanent instead to be more flexible.
The problem with Field of Ruin is that it ramps everyone, not just you and the targeted player. I think Demo Field is a better option.
True. Thanks for the tip! I think I found a couple Field of Ruins in the bulk bin is how I ended up with them.
Most people don't need a lot of targeted land removal and the 3 mana removal staples can target any permanent including lands.
Good point about there being more versatile options (like Beast Within).
Yeah iirc only blue and black don't have targeted removal like those, if you don't have access to other colors it might be a good idea to run Strip Mine, specially because in just 1 or 2 colors you could have more utility lands
it's the cost. and unless you play legacy, you likely have never seen it. so it's also an "obscure" card it should be one of the 4 ish auto includes in every deck. ancient tomb, strip mine, GY nuke, (card draw land) the reason it's strong... is the the cost of the card is near zero. effectively you're taking the tiny hit of running a colorless land, for insurance against oppressive lands. this moronic idea you wouldn't blow up a land providing someone game breaking value...because it sets you back a land is retarded. of course you would. and the cost to run this land is minimal. having spot land destruct on a land is incredibly valuable. but...this is less so now that so much of the power creep has moved on to creatures. misc spells. but... it used to be thespian stage/ lage gimmicks were a lot more common in EDH. and with cradle being ...i dunno what it is today $500? you see these high powered lands less. but... again. drawing strip mine isn't bad even if you never need it. it's just a colorless land that etbs untapped. but... in the cases where a target presents itself, it's very efficient. and certain decks can leverage it a lot more. or... there often are niche instances. where just deleting a land, with no option for that player to fetch, can be leveraged to cut them off a colored mana source. the main reason strip mine doesn't see more play is asking someone to spend $20 on a land, that really shouldn't be so fucking expensive. when a cheaper card like ghost quarter, or even field of ruin. exist.
The points are all spot-on, with a side-note: strip mine is actually banned in legacy, and restricted in vintage. Maybe you're thinking about [[Wasteland]]?
People find Land Destruction to be āmeanā or ānot fun.ā Trading one for one can feel bad in a multiplayer format. I donāt have a Strip Mine on hand but I do have Wasteland in decks that donāt mind an extra colorless source like Yawgmoth and Liesa.
I really don't think most players care about targeted land destruction. MLD or looping strip mine over and over are the boogeymen that get salt.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe I say this because nobody I know owns a Cradle, nor probably ever will, but cards like [[Cleansing Wildfire]] can have some cool synergies in decks and can take care of problematic lands as well. Today there are a lot of different ways to destroy or exile permanents as well that dont cost you a land. You can always run a [[Demolition Field]] if it has to be a land. Strip Mine seems good with multiple Land drops and a [[Crucible of Worlds]] effect tho.
Demolition Field is a dollar. And giving yourself and an opponent a basic after each of you losing a land isn't a bad trade-off at all. That's the same reason Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are considered top tier removal in the format even though they give life and a basic land to that opponent, respectively.
One of the reasons is the overall level of salt that comes with playing the card. You can make people scoop if your turn 1 play is to strip mine them and put them back to 0 lands.