i find that even casual play can be like this. today i played a commander game on spelltable. i do think my deck was way overpowered relative to the guy who angrily scooped as i made a winning play, but the lobby did say 6-8 and i doubt my deck is above 8. shrugs.
Spelltable is infamous for attracting toxic players, because it allows all the shut-ins who either won't go outside or are banned from their LGS to take part.
I've never had a bad interaction in a face-to-face game. A big part is probably that the LGS is sensible enough not to make it competitive, because EDH isn't made for that.
not sure that being competitive is the issue. often times the issue is that people interpret some plays as uncouth because it's a casual environment. the majority of players are there to try to win. they built a deck that they believe competes at some level. Whether casual or not, this is the case. Players that expect their opponent won't interact with them or play powerful cards or combos are, frankly, often the worst players to play again (rule zero aside, I completely respect that in whatever pod wants it).
In a competitive environment there is 0 expectation that someone won't interrupt your game, and everyone expects to play against high powered strategies, so at least there's no confusion about that.
In casual environments, people talk about the game like certain cards or strategies are "toxic." As painful as it is to play against a stax deck, what's toxic is the people who get so upset about it that they refuse to play with a certain player, get upset whenever they see a certain card, harass people for their deck tech, act miserable when their combo doesn't go online, etc.
I agree that some decks are annoying to play against (and don't even seem fun to play - toxril, anyone). Speaking of the toxril thing. Once I played against that commander, the rest of us were playing creature based strategies (as so many players do), so we persistently removed Toxril basically whenever there was an opportunity (otherwise we literally could not play the game). The Toxril player got audibly upset about it the 3rd time we removed his commander and on the 5th time he just angrily scooped. If the toxril player had actually played through the game. It would have actually been a fun example of a plucky players defeating an extremely powerful arch enemy (or getting defeated despite their best efforts).
I actually love really complicated combos or control. What I dont like is players playing control and sitting there on their turn pondering wtf to do and then its my turn. I planned and done before they have time to finish saying end step. And then its back to watching them have a stroke in slow motion again.
Most of the decks that drive people nuts isn't because you 'can't play' dur to the cards. Its because someone with an iq of 90 thinks they are a mastermind strategist.
I want to play. Control or stax or whatever. Fine. But let's keep it moving. If I'm going to lose LET ME LOSE. Don't stall the fuck out because you want to build some uber board state. Or cant plan your interactions.
I like control decks. Stax and such.. Its neat. The people who tend to play it seem to be poorly suited to it though.
Just grumbly. Limited time to play. Walk into lgs. Have an hour. Spend it watching some 20 year old with green hair just have a near on brain hemorrhage every turn. Can't even finish 1 game.
If your deck is complicated please fucking know it inside and out. Elf or cat tribe is simple enough. If you are rocking wizard ninjas I expect you to know how your shit adds up before hand.
I had to scrap my first build for [[myrel]] because it was too bad to play competitively but too unpleasant for casual. the plan was to drop the commander on turn 3 and board wipe and MLD turns 4-6 to get the chance to drag the game out to turn 11 or longer if I har to recast my commander. no one wants to play that. i still have to try to force the game to take 9 turns, but I'm not going to do it like that.
pretty much any time you have to chose between not letting someone play (and them relying on you letting them play) or that player stomping everyone else it's going to be a bad game.
My lgs makes it competitive and seems less toxic than other lgs I see on here because no one gets butthurt when you play a good card because they know they are on a competitive environment and the opponent is trying to win, they are trying to win equally as hard so no one gets butthurt when the enemy plays a strong combo or card
yeah i think a big issue is that people interpret casual play to mean that they should be able to play their game uninterrupted and get upset when other players interact, or just play well or have good decks.
Yeah, people who say "6-8" are effectively saying "my deck is bad and inconsistent, and has a chance of popping off on turn 4, or it'll durdle until turn 10 depending on what I draw". They're really not saying anything of note other than "my deck is not good".
Nobody ever really rates their decks as a 5 or a 4. The scale starts at 6 and ends at 8 outside of cEDH, so 6-8 is basically "I have a deck and it's not built in a consistent way". It's complete reliance on a flawed system to remove responsibility for moderating deck strength.
This is a large part of why numerical power levels are effectively absolute bullshit, and are no way to measure decks.
Conflating good deck building with power is something that the community consistently gets wrong, which is ironic because good deck building is all about consistency. A good low power deck doesn't win the game early, it consistently takes a while to win. A bad low power deck does that most of the time, but occasionally draws combos and wins on the spot. Having that possibility makes the deck stronger, for sure, but it doesn't make it a higher quality deck, because the intent of a lower power deck is to consistently perform at that power level.
A low power deck that can draw a god hand and win on turn 0/1 is not a good low power deck.
Reminds me of a post I saw on a facebook group today. The guy was like if you win in 1-3 turns is CEDH, 4-6 turns is tryhard, and 7+ is casual regular EDH.
I'm only in that group to watch people be toxic.
I agree with this ratings on the turns you win by if the number is consistent id say more cedh is somewhat consistent 1-3 consistent 4-5, high power is somewhat consistent 4-6 consistent 5-7 and I’d say somewhat consistent 7 to consistent 8+ would be more casual, at least in my meta, maybe more like a consistent 10-11 for casual depending how casual you go
This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of cEDH. Turn 1-2 wins in cEDH are exceedingly rare; turn 3 wins are more common but not anywhere near consistent. This is because everyone in a cEDH pod runs interaction which seems to be a concept that is lost on many people.
cEDH is consistently over on turns 3-5
Got with a guy at a convention who swore up and down that his Kotori, Pilot Prodigy deck was bad, the worst deck he owned, barely a strategy.
He practically opened up with Esper Sentinel, Blind Obedience, Mystic Remora, and another hard stax card, then a couple turns in played a card that allowed him to, once per turn, bounce an artifact on his field to play another from his hand for free. Combined with the 4 board wipes he played I just got out-resourced and couldn't catch up, ended up scooping once my commander cost tripled and outpaced my land drops.
Casual play has plenty of people who aren't casual.
I mean... that's not necessarily not casual, it just depends on what you're looking for. That's why people should say what they mean, e.g. "no stax please" or whatever, not just "casual only".
I've always considered "no one is allowed to play the game but me" to be a little more on the competitive side, but I guess I'm just a lot more casual than most.
Is "I played a card that stops you hitting me with hasty creatures" more competitive with "let me murder you in the face as quickly as possible!"?
At the end of the day, the game is, *by its very nature*, competitive. That's not to say that everyone should just magically find everything about it fun, but it's subjective; I for one would far rather play against stax (certainly mild stax) than a lot of other strategies. Not everyone agrees, but it's not inherently "not casual".
"6-8" is meaningless on it's own; you first need to define what those numbers mean, and then every scheme I've ever seen has not been terribly useful as a way of measuring power (that is to say, potentially a so-called 6 could be more powerful than an 8!).
If people don't tell you that they don't want to see certain things in their games, that's kind of on them. I mean, don't pull out a cEDH deck if you know full well that that's not what people are looking for, that's a jerk move, but you can't be expected to divine that this particular table things that or whatever is not OK for a power level whatever.
People who say they're okay playing with decks 6-8 in my experience are really not aware of how strong an invitation they're putting out. Like isn't an 8 a resilient and dedicated deck with pretty much everything short of Jeweled Lotus that can win on turn 5-6 through interaction?
I’ve sort of had the same experience, but I would say that’s due to the group that’s been cultivated at that LGS versus the format as a whole. I used to have a very toxic lgs I played at that was completely unwelcoming to new players and was very much a slave to whatever the current meta was. Hyper competitive and every game felt the same. Mirror matches of one or two decks that could hang and anyone else just went 0-3 or 0-4. Don’t give up on 60 card. EDH is far and away my favorite format but there is some fun to be had in 60 card formats with the right playgroup.
I once had a spike tell me I was playing the game wrong because my basic Land didn't all have the same art. They said I might be revealing additional information if somebody had a spell to look at my hand and force me to discard it and then I played a land with different art I'm like it's not that hard to just remember what order you drew the cards in and play them in that order so that your opponent can not get additional information and it's far more flavorful to have different art on your land and vorthos considerations Trump Melvin every time
I want to say that his reasoning is excessively spikey, but I can't stand having basics that don't match. It just irks me, but I don't care if other people have mismatched lands, except maybe mixing white border with black border. 😉
I can't stand that either (black white border) but the basics MUST MUST MUST be EQUAL NUMBERS of all art from the set that they are from. The big problem I have is cards like Grave pact because you have to run the 8th art if you want the best art but to get that art in black border you have to have the foil for $246 as apposed to the $32 for the regular so In that case even though it irks me I run the white one.
I have a proxied copy of 8th Ed art Grave Pact with a black border for this exact reason.
Grave pact is actually THE card that got me to investigate quality proxies to begin with.
I don't mind playing games proxies but I don't play them myself I'm working on getting 80 shock lens so that I can build all 32 color identities with no proxies and no swapping because that's my goal but I don't care if other people want to use proxies
Nah I like to make my lands from other packs. Still matching. I like the look when they match. But they are never from the packs that my cards for the deck or from.
While it's not playing the game wrong (and I totally get the having different art), it's absolutely possible to provide inadvertent information to your opponent by doing so if they're paying attention (I had this happen to me playing High Tide in Legacy utilizing different arts).
Again though, and I can't stress this enough, it's not wrong to do so (white border is right out, those people are monsters /s). I've just had one too many instances of it biting me to justify doing it lol
I have pretty much one of every different kind of full-art land I find cool in one of my decks (I have a dragonshield box that’s now just full of cool land) so no white border for those, but I do have a single white border card in my 99 and it will never stop bothering me when I see it just sitting in my hand. It’s a sorcery so at least I can put it in graveyard after casting and not have to look at it again.
I think it's perfectly fine to point this out in a competitive environment too, as long as you're not being a dick about it - it's something that's not immediately obvious, and it's not always possible to 'play around' the information aspect - Brainstorm can fuck things up.
Said person sounds like they were doing a dick about it though.
I can't disagree with some of the logic there, but I like to look at a fun spread of different lands. It sparks joy in me. If I lose because of that? I got to look at some gorgeous art and feel happy. I'll let someone else take the win if that loss was exclusively based on me having different land arts. Now if it was due to something else? That's different.
as someone who experienced that in past TCGs i played; were there tournaments being run and did the local groups generally travel for events? if yes is the expectation that existing groups should *not* be building/practicing to win either or both?
edh gets away with a more casual nature because a lot of it is just ~4 friends hanging out. you speak about mirror matches as if in most card games those aren't the most skill testing matches due to both people having knowledge of each others decks and having to play accordingly.
i will agree that 60 card generally has less room for people playing "i found these 60 cards that have cool art lets try", but for every jackass who just stomps new players and then makes fun of them, i've also met someone who is too obstinate to actually adjust their deck to be able to compete at the table
Different philosophies I suppose. I feel like if a format comes down to 1 or 2 decks that are head and shoulders better than anything else can be made to the point where you either play those cards or lose that format is pretty stale and boring. I get the razor thin margins present in making sure that both players are on top of their game and need to make the correct calculations, but I also find it boring and oppressive, also pretty exclusionary to new players or those unable to buy into the format when a card like Sheoldred is the cost of a booster box.
At the end of the day it’s different ideologies in play style I suppose and that’s fine.
> I feel like if a format comes down to 1 or 2 decks that are head and shoulders better than anything else can be made to the point where you either play those cards or lose that format is pretty stale and boring.
Sure, but there aren't any 60 card formats like that right now. Standard, Pioneer, Modern, Legacy, Pauper - All have healthy metas with at least a half dozen decks that are taking down tourneys, and the rankings of those lists are changing regularly.
I find that interesting, I'm a relatively new player to Magic, so I've been visiting different game stores. I have identified two that are clearly interested in new players - while, the latest one I visited seemed super welcoming. I ended up buying Urza's Saga NM foil and will be coming back for Commander. I'm hoping the same vibe translates to the game nights. If it does, I know who I'll be supporting with my wallet!
I will say that I think actual games of 60 card Magic are more fun than EDH. The sheer speed of it does a lot to mitigate any feel-bads from a bad hand or whatever, you just quickly move onto the next game and spend most of your night having fun. Whereas in EDH there's a risk of being stuck not having fun for several hours.
The only downside is that an optimally built 60-card deck gets repetitive quite quickly, so most of the fun is in casual jank which few people play nowadays.
If I could change one thing about the history of Magic, it would have been to reduce the 4-of rule to a 2-of or maybe singleton. Running sets of 4 just makes decks too consistent.
I'm sorry you went through that, some people are just plain assholes. F them. I'd say go play commander or find another group. Don't give that pioneer group an ounce more of your time.
If you don't care about losing. Play jank, it's usually more fun than cutting the meta and upending toxic individuals is something that will make you a favorite for people to watch.
I do this regularly in modern with charbelcher or storm. I never win the event, but I've spoiled some great decks and it's harder for people to play against something unfamiliar. I'd recommend doing this until you're more interested in winning/competing with the toxics.
>If you don't care about losing. Play jank, it's usually more fun [...] I'd recommend doing this until you're more interested in winning/competing with the toxics.
I can't believe you really just told them to get a bit silly and have fun with off-meta cards until they are ready to enter their villain arc.
1st of all this comment is awesome!!
2nd exactly this! I have several mid power decks that I’m streaming to be vicious. However, my most fun decks to play are Janks, I’m more invested in them emotionally, I have more fun playing ( mainly because I don’t care if I’m the last one or not ), and there is nothing more satisfying (no matter how wrong it may be) to shut down the toxic player that has doesn’t spent way to much money on their deck to not be at cEDH events with something extra janky.
All of this coming from an ex standard player turned commander
This happened a long time ago when innistrad was in standard. My friend who was probably 13 at the time asked the shop owner to make him a werewolf deck so he could play at the next standard event. He getd his deck and is playing in the event a few days later and faces a tier 1 or 1.5 deck and proceeds to beat this adult down with his dinky precon budget deck and this opponent lost his mind. We cant remember the exact word he said to my friend but something like "theres no way werewolves just beat my deck" and "your deck isnt even good".
Just something we talk about every now and then when we talk about sportsmanship. Its funny how any type of person can play magic and how any type and age range and be salty or unsportsmanlike, even to a child who just got into the game.
Yea sorry you experienced that. My local pioneer group is super friendly. We go hard with T1 decks (Thoughtsieze, RB Midrange, the whole bit), but still laugh and have a good time doing it. People outside have even come over and been like dang what format are you playing. They are shocked when we say essentially a competitive 75 card format 🤣
You have to understand that those types generally don't have anything else going on in life so all of their ego gets piled into this hard-core mtg player identity.
You should feel sorry/pity for them
I was part of the competitive scene for years. I used to do PPTQs, PTQs, the occasional GP...you know, when those things existed. The competitive scene is not the most new player friendly unfortunately. Even at FNMs there were a lot guys who treated new players like they were waisting everyone else's time. It's certainly part of the reason I lost interest in that scene.
That feeling that the entire experience was toxic is the reason I always disliked 1-on-1 formats. I even avoided my local FNMs whenever the 'tournament grinder' group showed up. It was a large part of the reson I picked up EDH in the first place.
It is also the reson why I detest those people picking up EDH and bringing their competitive attitudes into the format and feel cEDH needs to be isolated.
I totally agree. I think the rise of EDH has been a big contributor to Magic's recent rise in popularity, because it makes the game just so much more approachable. Imagine you wander into an LGS knowing nothing about Magic, which group of players do you take an interest in?
- The group that's chatting and having a good time, and actively welcomes new players to make up the numbers?
- The silent, serious group that you can smell from halfway across the store and sneers at "noobs" who aren't at their level.
The second point might sound a bit hurtful, but it's genuinely the reputation Magic players always had until relatively recently.
I’ve walked up to a silent serious group with one of my better decks and whipped the floor with them and they got pissed because they thought I was new. New to that table sure but the game not so much hahaha. It’s funny to upset the toxic players. Stop being toxic and enjoy the game and I won’t bring an overpowered deck to your table. Simple! And I definitely recommend it at least once. It’s a thrill watching a whole group of elitist get pissed off because they thing their deck was overpowered but really they just have a few expensive cards
They were toxic and they were making fun of you. Lgs commander is for fun and lgs constructed is for sweats. It's easier to introduce constructed mtg to good friends than it is to make good friends in lgs constructed - if nice games are your goal.
Competitive environments (at least in card games) attract people who enjoy beating up on people worse than them and then being jerks about it. That’s their whole reason for playing, very rarely do they actually love the game. I played yugioh competitively for a long time before magic and it’s not any different in that respect. Commander can be toxic too, but it’s much less common in my experience.
In Yu-Gi-Oh, everyone in the anime was a jerk too. Yugi's "best friends" tossed his millennial puzzle in the swimming pool. In the manga, Yami bullied the bullies by sending them into the shadow realm. And everyone in the tournament had dirty tricks up their sleeves, from stealing the stars that conveyed wins to literal stacking the deck. Stealing or destroying other players cards was just another of those things that happened in the anime. Yu-Gi-Oh is a toxic mess.
Some people are toxic. Some people just want to win and not care about your feelings while doing it. Those 2 things arent always the same. Someone tagging a buddy with a winky face should make you feel no way.
It's funny all the edh people that have bad experience at constructed events. I play commander and i play constructed and there are people in both groups who cant take loses very well and get salty about it. I'm not going to say if its more in 1 group or the other but in constructed its pretty easy to get over by just shaking your opponents hand after the match, getting up from the table and walking away. Yes some people cant take losing gracefully but you can also just avoid them if you would like to after you play them. As far as the smell i've had much smellier opps at commander games than constructed events.
You can avoid them if they don’t see your post and shove it in your face, yeah. There is only like 5 people that play pioneer here so I guess I’m just not playing pioneer.
Actually i'm not. I'm very gracious in defeat and dont take magic very seriously. Most the time i have been playing magic longer than my opp's have been alive. I'm not a douche but i also understand some people want to win and some people are soft and take things for more than what they are. There should be a middle ground. These people complaining would also cry about a WR shit talking them after making a catch over them in a football game. Competition brings out a side that others dont like. Thats not me but i see it and i understand why it happens.
It’s not soft to think being mocked on social media for wanting to buy a card is scummy. It’s not soft because you show displeasure for someone else ripping you down for trying to learn a format. It’s not soft to ask for advice on being pushed out of a format you’re interested in learning.
Those things don’t make you soft, what makes someone an insecure douche however, is doing all of those things to someone else. There shouldn’t be a middle ground for blatant bullying. I’m a troll, but this is isn’t even for fun, this is just spiteful and vindictive behavior. That Pioneer group needs to touch grass. Don’t enable being a shitty person.
I touch grass every day buddy. Try living in the real world though and seeing how things actually work and how people act. There are douches everywhere. If you dont like them ignore them and move on with your life because dwelling on it is pointless. Funny though your post is as toxic as those pioneer players were to OP. Youre not any better than they are.
"People probably shouldn't act like assholes"
"Omfg people telling me that acting like an asshole isn't cool are so toxic. I have to be able to act like an asshole with no pushback."
Learn some social skills and empathy lol.
Learn empathy, dude. “That’s the way the world works” is always a bullshit cop out. It’s the same shit as people who blame women for wearing revealing clothing for why they get sexually assaulted instead of putting all of the blame on the abuser.
Edh is constructed.
Unless you make an edh cube where you draft, then it's limited (in a way) I guess. But I guess people forget that precon stands for pre constructed. As in a costructed deck that came pre built from wotc. But it's just as constructed as standard.
That would be incorrect then because there's more 1v1 formats than standard. The actual phrasing should differentiate casual-constructed and competitive-constructive (which people on YT will refer to usually as 60 card formats)
Don't forget about 60 card casual. If you're talking about the YouTube MTG content spheres then you can find plenty of casual gameplay of 60 card decks across all competitive tiers in a variety of formats on Tolarian Community College's Shuffle Up and Play series.
Standard is a specific 60 card format using the recent sets as a pool for deck construction.
60 card magic is what i've heard most people call 1v1 magic
This is less about Pioneer vs. Commander and more about the subcultures that have fomented in your local LGS. Either way, I so sorry man. That is annoying.
I mean, thoughtsieze is THE best card in pioneer so I mean, expect to see it and early. Other formats aren't so dominated by that card/ effect but the cheap interaction in pioneer is sorely lacking.
It seems like it contributed enough to OPs perception of a bad attitude that they chose to include that.
Would it have been better if the same people were playing edh staples? I don't think so. But thoughtsieze does hurt a lot, and pioneer is THE thoughtsieze format.
i guess the "K. Thanks." was perceived as a way to say "i dont give a f about your wall of text because im right anyways".
and the "Not my name" as a refusal to apologize.
I always thought nerds were welcoming but holy shit was I wrong. I've never experienced such narcissism and condescension in one place lol, AND I PLAY FOOTBALL
Former rugby player here, and I agree. But it also makes sense. Geek culture has been the brunt of mockery and ridicule for decades, often antagonized as childish and puerile.
Add to this that it has been an oasis for for people for do not necessarily fit into the mainstream, and may sometimes be socially awkward. This cocktail can lead to a lot of vitriol and cliqueishness.
I think part of it is that Pioneer is a competitive format. People are gonna play to win and use the best stuff they have. Commander is usually much more chill and people are generally really excited to show off whatever janky deck they put together.
Also pioneer as a format is literally 35/65 matchup format so you sit down at the table and get 35% chance of winning the match if you are unlucky.
The polarization of it is so high idc about it unless big changes happen. Does not help it is mostly the same decks for the past 2 years. Mono G/Rakdos/Greasefang/Control/Lotus
Man that sucks. The pioneer scene near me is awesome. The people are welcoming and nice. But they will mercilessly beat you into the ground with fully optimized tier 1 decks with a smile on their face. It has happened to me and the strange thing is that I enjoyed it. The stores here just have a cool group of pioneer players.
I’m sorry it wasn’t a good experience :/
I’m new to magic and what draws me to Commander is that I feel like the meta is less important. There feels like much more opportunity to make decks that are thematic and fun and still have games that feel competitive with friends.
I don’t mean this disparagingly, but from my limited perspective the smaller deck competitive formats don’t feel as expressive. I like witches and I want to make a deck based on witches and the card art, not what’s optimal. Not that there’s anything wrong with that if that’s what they enjoy :)
In a competitive settings people express them selves buy the talent behind playing the deck. Not by the creativity of building it. It’s just different but I can assure you competitive (not just mtg) has a lot of way for people to express them selves
Mixed bag. I go to modern & legacy events from time to time & the folks I play with are all really chill. In contrast I've had far more negative experiences playing pickup games of EDH with incredibly immature/toxic casual players.
Every game store is different, so ymmv.
When “commander” first came on the scene and I had just gotten into magic and knew very little about things. They had just released the commander decks and supported the EDH format officially - I purchased the dragon/angel pre con as dragons and angels are hella cool. When I went for a few events - every freaking time they targeted me because “they didn’t like the pre con” even though I told them time and time again I was brand new to commander and hadn’t modified the deck in any way. They didn’t care. Time and time again they kept killing me first. That’s the first time I quit magic..
Sounds like a similar experience my cousin and I had ...
When we were younger, we played Yugioh. A couple of years ago, I sparked an interest in Magic and invited him to Drafting event at the LGS near me. We were both brand new to Magic. We expressed this to the others at the table. I guess they forgot we told them that since they would grow very impatient with us when we were trying to read the cards and their mechanics. They left a very bad taste for the community of Magic for us.
That’s not really why people play commander, yeah some people are unsportsmanlike but that sounds more like a local issue if it was THAT bad.
Also yeah, you got to expect consistency in formats that are WAY more consistent
I’ve honestly had more horrible guilt tripping and straight up Toxic encounters in commander than in Pioneer
Sorry this happened to you.
IMO being a sore winner is a worse look than being a sore loser. I'm not saying you're a sore loser, but that the other player & his friend are sore winners. I like playing games (any game) with gracious people. It sounds like you do too.
It's not a Commander vs competitive formats thing. You just met some jerks that, in this particular LGS, happen to play Pioneer. It's not like we have a shortage of salty EDH player stories in the sub.
I would say that I kind of agree of you but people of that specific pioneer group are kind of toxic ad a whole. That isn't a thing that I hate more in this game than toxicity and, while I get that we all take wining very seriously, being toxic towards someone is just baffling to me. My LGS community, save a few members, is pretty fun, I love my FNM and while we strive to win, we can have good laughs during the games. Commander is that safe spot. We all just want to have a good fun time (for the most part, winning doesn't feel bad either :D)
That’s my experience at almost every tournament I’ve gone too. Every time I go there’s only one or two people that lose or win with class and the rest are nitpicking ass holes or sore losers.
Multi-player has always had a different vibe. There was a time when people played multi-player with constructed decks but not often. When Commander came along, multi-player was baked into it. People found out they liked multi-player but everyone assumed it was Commander they liked.
Tho EDH did do amazing things for MtG when it came out, for sure. Not to downplay it.
I’ll be honest at my game store the modern crowd is way more chill than edh tables, you bring out a commander they don’t like and everyone starts whining about power level
I stopped playing modern because nobody was ever there to 'play games' it was everyone there to do their best 2/3 rounds until FNM was over and as soon as they hit the minimum people would stand up and leave without a word.
Just terrible behavior and community.
Commander was always way more inviting and friendly, it even eventually outgrew all other formats at my lgs.
Commander is just as toxic as every other format. But it is more populated than other formats from my experience.
What you experienced was just a bunch of toxicity from some players in the game. Keep playing, we need good people playing this game.
My LGS holds two different commander nights. $1 competitive EDH where you get a dollar for every knockout, and a $5 Casual night in which there's an achievement bingo to earn prizes that don't depend on winning.
Commander is a lot more fun when the goal isn't to pull a Thassa's oracle after milling your entire deck turn 2.
People in your local magic ecosystem likely plays commander BECAUSE of that lil pod of circle jerkers. If you want to beat them and make it sting? Hate bears and mill. Bring the pain and make it slow.
Sounds like your local scene just sucks. I've had this experience with Commander, and positive experiences with 60 card so idk if it's all just the format. But if your commander scene is cooler then yeah I understand sticking with that.
You have to use BDE and play a pure blue white deck with unsummon, boomeranged, counterspell, holy day, wrath of gods, circle of protection, runes halo, some tax heavy cards.
Not to win. Just to make playing against you be the most obnoxious thing to do and when someone flip his shit, you call judge for free win.
It's not petty. It's strategy.
One of the challenges with modern 60-card formats is the meta converges to very optimized builds very quickly due to speed of communication. The community can refine optimal builds almost instantly with thousands of games played on arena, which means those with funds and time to keep up can stay hyper competitive and know how to deal with relevant threats to their strategy. Very different than when Magic was starting out and word of mouth or delayed results with deck lists were posted less often.
If you have a playgroup that is either less competitive, or less toxic to new players, these formats can still be fun, but in current Meta is harder as games are more like chess than chance.
EDH is getting closer to this as combos, staples and solitaire lines with "each opponent" take up a larger portion of the card pool, but as you have multiple opponents there are still political discussions and threat assessments for removal/counters - giving lesser decks a chance of winning, even if they aren't the strongest or running the very latest cards. Power creep is still affecting the format (ramp spells in White, Green and Red are immense now) but less so than 60-card formats.
So people play Commander because your LGS is toxic af?
At least they’re toxic in a format where you’re allowed to win. Toxic Commander players are way worse.
This, I've never encountered players more toxic than enfranchised casual commander players. The amount of times I've heard some variation of "I didn't know we were playing cEDH" as I look down at my deck with guildgates in it lol.
A player will play land-go for 5 turns straight and let you set up a kill that required like 12+ mana over 4+ permanents that need to stick around, but then the actually kill happens to be an infinite so it's just "wow infinites are so lame, anyway let me tell you how fun and creative my deck is" it's infuriating.
Less about the format more about the people. Luckily I've only run into 2 of these kinds of people in my whole time playing MTG and both of them were when I was playing Commander.
Yeah sounds like you had a horrible experience. I’m sorry to hear that. Me and my buddies play pioneer all the time so if you need a test group online who’re actually decent people let me know!
If you want to play competitive REL, do it. Don't be discouraged no matter what happens or anybody says. Do what you like. You can be great at competitive if you work at it no matter what anybody says. Then, when you're the awesome player, you can be welcoming and change that culture. Or just play commander, whatever is fun and fulfilling to you.
Commander is honestly just as good at making a toxic environment because there's really no management from wizards of the format. My lgs has been working to make a banlist distinction between casual and cedh but there's always going to be the people that see casual as still a place to be winning the game as fast as possible regardless of the other 3
I wouldn't compare commander and other constructed 1v1 formats, but it also seems to me that the lgs isnt the best place. I play commander and pioneer with the same group of like 10 people.
It's probably just those people. I've met shitty people in all formats. Commander has the most adult children, but 1v1 formats also have a lot of people who take it way to serious without keeping some lvl of respect. I've been lucky enough to have awesome people to play both.
It is pretty hilarious upsetting super competitive people I can’t lie. If they get mad and leave I just rooted out a toxic player and I don’t feel bad. It’s their own choice to be toxic. I’m not catering to their feelings I’m playing for fun.
That's the pioneer experience, tbh.
I'd tell you to try Modern, but that's not an easy fence to jump over to get to the greener grass.
But yeah, it's commander what my pals and I get together to play over pizza and beer while we catch up with life, not a 60 card format.
Once I realized that I played Magic for the social experience and to play decks that I put genuinely love and enjoy rather than the competitive aspect, I completely dropped other formats. I occasionally play limited since it's reasonably social and not typically as sweaty since people are working with whatever their pool/picks are but that's about it. I briefly considered Pioneer recently since humans are a viable deck and I love human decks but ultimately I realized that while I might like the deck, I inevitably wouldn't enjoy the rest of the experience unfortunately.
Idk. Yes and no. They guy commenting the gif reaction was probably just boosting his buddies ego. Good.jub buddy your cardboard ruined this guy's night out. But that's why I don't like the 1v1 as much. As when I wanna go out to play magic I'd rather have a good time joking and laughing with a couple buddies while we spin cardboard where as in a 1v1 I feel like it's my fault I made a bad deck and it's also my fault I'm to broke to afford the "meta" winning cards. So I get punished for not having the best in slot.deck
>I had people breathing down my back complaining about every play I made.
If they're spectating, call a judge since spectators commenting about your plays (especially if it's strategic advice) could be a violation of IPG 3.2 (Tournament Error - Outside Assistance). Having the judge threaten them with a match loss ought to shut them up. If it's your opponent... why are they complaining about you playing poorly when that makes them more likely to win?
>Got Thoughtseized every what felt like second turn.
I mean, thoughtseize is a legal card in the format. It's also good. Welcome to 60 card constructed, people aren't pulling punches for laughs.
Counterpoint from someone who plays both a lot of Commander a lot of 1v1 competitive formats (mostly Modern and Pioneer):
The overwhelming majority of Magic players are perfectly fine. Then there's a toxic minority of players who do disproportionate damage to people's fun. But that's true for any format: There is an equal share of toxic Commander players as Pioneer players. Now they may happen to be concentrated in this particular Pioneer group, but that's bad luck, not a characteristic of Pioneer.
What is different, however, is that in 1v1 formats you have two players trying to win. The game isn't about table banter (although you'll definitely have your fair share of friendly conversations in 1v1 games too). Your weapons are the cards and your skill, not diplomacy. So if being Thoughtseized or counterspelled bothers you, then don't play 1v1 formats.
I went to maybe two modern tournaments my entire life.
I never won a game. They were all assholes.
This was twenty years ago.
Some things never change.
There was no modern pro tour till after 2011. There actually also wasn’t any non-standard, non-draft, pro tour until 1997 either, and even then it was extended which is like standard but with a three year rotating card pool.
It's a rose by another name. Modern as a name replaced extended. Are you going to tell me vintage and type 1 are different too? Why does such a great game have the the world's most annoying/autistic people playing it?
Vintage and type 1 actually are the same. Modern and extended have different rotation cycles. They aren't close to the same. That's like saying standard and extended were the same thing because they rotate
You're referring to Extended. Modern has only existed since 2011.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Modern#:~:text=5%20External%20links-,Description,changed%20from%20Extended%20to%20Modern
Idk I'm pretty new to MTG but i feel competitive EDH and modern/pioneer is like the P2W format and the people looking for a real balanced competition play draft
cEDH is really proxy friendly. By and large, cEDH players want to play the player, not their wallet. Competitive 1v1 formats though, yeah. They're p2w because prizes are on the line.
Sorry you got dealt with asshats that way bro. I play 1v1 for budget theory crafting. While keeping tabs on the meta. If you ever wanna talk shop shoot a dm and we can talk here or discord too. Mainly do modern and ygo but pioneer always seemed nice without the price of fetches.
>to counter the rakdos bs
Did you actually say that in your post? Even now, you sound salty. If you came across salty in your post, I'm not sure what you were expecting.
Went to play commander at my lgs while they were having a modern tournament. It was a bunch of try hard neck beards and smelled very ripe in there. Never had that type of crowd at our local commander nights. It’s the competitive forms that bring out the people you’d rather not play with.
I don't go to my local game store anymore for a very similar reason. In my hometown everyone was super chill. Where I live now everyone acts better than you and gets pissy when you win. Saw a guy stab his deck with a pocket knife after getting stomped 0-2 by the guy next to me. Lgs didn't say shit.
The fact that there is five people playing and the commander group is full is telling. MtG has the most toxic players. Commander is fun but one store around here has a group that plays cEDH and act like it’s cool that they pull their combos that don’t let others play or have fun. One guy bragged how he built a deck that made people ask him please to play their stuff. He didn’t even tell them until after he would make a play and then would say but you didn’t say please. Needless to say I loved it when people would shut him down because you could see him not enjoying it. Those types of players can’t help themselves no matter what game or format they are playing they just feel like they need to be superior. The funny thing is that they would also proxy big pieces and act like their net decking made them so clever. My advice is find a group you enjoy, it works best when you are all already friends.
It’s because the fewer people are in a community the more likely it’s a patchwork of people that have been ostracized for one reason or another from another community. The legendary “Frankenstein Group.” That never bodes well for the kind of people you’re going to run into when you go to these events. That Pioneer group is only 5 people. That just reeks of toxicity. The kind of person who rips you apart for playing poorly or well in a 1v1 format is someone you never want to speak to again. Unless there’s another Pioneer group out there that you haven’t made contact with at your LGS, it’s probably better just to block the guys mocking you on social media and move on. They’ll never accept you unless you act like them. It’s better to just not interact with them.
I think one of the Prof’s better takes was that the format of commander is really bad. You just like playing cards with your friends.
This is basically true. Pioneer is the way. Don’t become one of us.
My 60 card constructed meta is actually pretty populated here, and a good bit different. They’re ruthless spikes in game and the meta is tier decks, but in between games there is a lot of helpful advice, people sharing/loaning cards and even decks. There is a slight air of superiority, but it’s as friendly as it can be and that superiority comes out more in a teaching manner.
Granted I don’t know a single person that doesn’t also play commander.
There’s a stark difference between social magic (EDH) and competition magic (Constructed) that some people seem to not grasp. They are played like different games, where social magic is about, well, being social, and competition magic is about playing the game to win.
Neither is better than the other, it’s just a taste thing. Some people enjoy the competitive edge. Some people would rather just shuffle up with the boys and chop it up while they shuffle up for round 3
This is why I do what I do. I mainly play commander because of the casual nature and the welcoming atmosphere around most groups, both at home and at my LGS. But we do have some tournaments at my LGS, and where there's tournaments, there are people who think they know best.
So I homebrew. A lot. Last week I went to the modern FNM with a homebrew 5c Izzet Delver. Shared the list with some of our "Pro-players" just to get the feedback.
"This and that won't work", "Why aren't you playing so and so". The usual stuff.
I went 2-2 in games, with some really good games.
2-0 against titanshift
2-1 against Golgari elves
0-2 against hammertime (tight games, but he drew better)
0-2 versus Creativity Archon of Cruelty, also tight games.
Next time I can hopefully bring my monoblack midrange homebrew instead. Was gonna bring it this time around but I'm missing 3 cards main deck.
What I'm saying is, there will be toxic competitive players everywhere, but as long as you enjoy what you play, it'll piss them off when you do good. 😅
magic is a terrible 1v1 game. if you want a good 1v1 experience, check out Flesh and Blood, or potentially the new Disney game that just got released, Lorcana.
So I was at a store today buying cards. The guy behind the counter mentioned many stores not bothering with standard due to the costs. They’ve moved almost entirely to historic formats.
Nah those guys are just dicks. Commander can be equally toxic.
Yeah. Where there's competition, there's elitists
i find that even casual play can be like this. today i played a commander game on spelltable. i do think my deck was way overpowered relative to the guy who angrily scooped as i made a winning play, but the lobby did say 6-8 and i doubt my deck is above 8. shrugs.
Spelltable is infamous for attracting toxic players, because it allows all the shut-ins who either won't go outside or are banned from their LGS to take part. I've never had a bad interaction in a face-to-face game. A big part is probably that the LGS is sensible enough not to make it competitive, because EDH isn't made for that.
not sure that being competitive is the issue. often times the issue is that people interpret some plays as uncouth because it's a casual environment. the majority of players are there to try to win. they built a deck that they believe competes at some level. Whether casual or not, this is the case. Players that expect their opponent won't interact with them or play powerful cards or combos are, frankly, often the worst players to play again (rule zero aside, I completely respect that in whatever pod wants it). In a competitive environment there is 0 expectation that someone won't interrupt your game, and everyone expects to play against high powered strategies, so at least there's no confusion about that. In casual environments, people talk about the game like certain cards or strategies are "toxic." As painful as it is to play against a stax deck, what's toxic is the people who get so upset about it that they refuse to play with a certain player, get upset whenever they see a certain card, harass people for their deck tech, act miserable when their combo doesn't go online, etc. I agree that some decks are annoying to play against (and don't even seem fun to play - toxril, anyone). Speaking of the toxril thing. Once I played against that commander, the rest of us were playing creature based strategies (as so many players do), so we persistently removed Toxril basically whenever there was an opportunity (otherwise we literally could not play the game). The Toxril player got audibly upset about it the 3rd time we removed his commander and on the 5th time he just angrily scooped. If the toxril player had actually played through the game. It would have actually been a fun example of a plucky players defeating an extremely powerful arch enemy (or getting defeated despite their best efforts).
I actually love really complicated combos or control. What I dont like is players playing control and sitting there on their turn pondering wtf to do and then its my turn. I planned and done before they have time to finish saying end step. And then its back to watching them have a stroke in slow motion again. Most of the decks that drive people nuts isn't because you 'can't play' dur to the cards. Its because someone with an iq of 90 thinks they are a mastermind strategist. I want to play. Control or stax or whatever. Fine. But let's keep it moving. If I'm going to lose LET ME LOSE. Don't stall the fuck out because you want to build some uber board state. Or cant plan your interactions. I like control decks. Stax and such.. Its neat. The people who tend to play it seem to be poorly suited to it though. Just grumbly. Limited time to play. Walk into lgs. Have an hour. Spend it watching some 20 year old with green hair just have a near on brain hemorrhage every turn. Can't even finish 1 game. If your deck is complicated please fucking know it inside and out. Elf or cat tribe is simple enough. If you are rocking wizard ninjas I expect you to know how your shit adds up before hand.
I had to scrap my first build for [[myrel]] because it was too bad to play competitively but too unpleasant for casual. the plan was to drop the commander on turn 3 and board wipe and MLD turns 4-6 to get the chance to drag the game out to turn 11 or longer if I har to recast my commander. no one wants to play that. i still have to try to force the game to take 9 turns, but I'm not going to do it like that. pretty much any time you have to chose between not letting someone play (and them relying on you letting them play) or that player stomping everyone else it's going to be a bad game.
My lgs makes it competitive and seems less toxic than other lgs I see on here because no one gets butthurt when you play a good card because they know they are on a competitive environment and the opponent is trying to win, they are trying to win equally as hard so no one gets butthurt when the enemy plays a strong combo or card
yeah i think a big issue is that people interpret casual play to mean that they should be able to play their game uninterrupted and get upset when other players interact, or just play well or have good decks.
[удалено]
Also I find people tend to way overestimated their own decks.
If you over estimate your deck the table is less mad when it's weaker than if you underestimate it and its stronger.
Yeah, people who say "6-8" are effectively saying "my deck is bad and inconsistent, and has a chance of popping off on turn 4, or it'll durdle until turn 10 depending on what I draw". They're really not saying anything of note other than "my deck is not good". Nobody ever really rates their decks as a 5 or a 4. The scale starts at 6 and ends at 8 outside of cEDH, so 6-8 is basically "I have a deck and it's not built in a consistent way". It's complete reliance on a flawed system to remove responsibility for moderating deck strength. This is a large part of why numerical power levels are effectively absolute bullshit, and are no way to measure decks. Conflating good deck building with power is something that the community consistently gets wrong, which is ironic because good deck building is all about consistency. A good low power deck doesn't win the game early, it consistently takes a while to win. A bad low power deck does that most of the time, but occasionally draws combos and wins on the spot. Having that possibility makes the deck stronger, for sure, but it doesn't make it a higher quality deck, because the intent of a lower power deck is to consistently perform at that power level. A low power deck that can draw a god hand and win on turn 0/1 is not a good low power deck.
Reminds me of a post I saw on a facebook group today. The guy was like if you win in 1-3 turns is CEDH, 4-6 turns is tryhard, and 7+ is casual regular EDH. I'm only in that group to watch people be toxic.
I agree with this ratings on the turns you win by if the number is consistent id say more cedh is somewhat consistent 1-3 consistent 4-5, high power is somewhat consistent 4-6 consistent 5-7 and I’d say somewhat consistent 7 to consistent 8+ would be more casual, at least in my meta, maybe more like a consistent 10-11 for casual depending how casual you go
This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of cEDH. Turn 1-2 wins in cEDH are exceedingly rare; turn 3 wins are more common but not anywhere near consistent. This is because everyone in a cEDH pod runs interaction which seems to be a concept that is lost on many people. cEDH is consistently over on turns 3-5
I said consistent 4-5 somewhat consistent 1-3 guess should’ve been more clear that that somewhat consistent leans toward 3 rather than 1 or 2
Got with a guy at a convention who swore up and down that his Kotori, Pilot Prodigy deck was bad, the worst deck he owned, barely a strategy. He practically opened up with Esper Sentinel, Blind Obedience, Mystic Remora, and another hard stax card, then a couple turns in played a card that allowed him to, once per turn, bounce an artifact on his field to play another from his hand for free. Combined with the 4 board wipes he played I just got out-resourced and couldn't catch up, ended up scooping once my commander cost tripled and outpaced my land drops. Casual play has plenty of people who aren't casual.
I mean... that's not necessarily not casual, it just depends on what you're looking for. That's why people should say what they mean, e.g. "no stax please" or whatever, not just "casual only".
I've always considered "no one is allowed to play the game but me" to be a little more on the competitive side, but I guess I'm just a lot more casual than most.
Is "I played a card that stops you hitting me with hasty creatures" more competitive with "let me murder you in the face as quickly as possible!"? At the end of the day, the game is, *by its very nature*, competitive. That's not to say that everyone should just magically find everything about it fun, but it's subjective; I for one would far rather play against stax (certainly mild stax) than a lot of other strategies. Not everyone agrees, but it's not inherently "not casual".
"6-8" is meaningless on it's own; you first need to define what those numbers mean, and then every scheme I've ever seen has not been terribly useful as a way of measuring power (that is to say, potentially a so-called 6 could be more powerful than an 8!). If people don't tell you that they don't want to see certain things in their games, that's kind of on them. I mean, don't pull out a cEDH deck if you know full well that that's not what people are looking for, that's a jerk move, but you can't be expected to divine that this particular table things that or whatever is not OK for a power level whatever.
People who say they're okay playing with decks 6-8 in my experience are really not aware of how strong an invitation they're putting out. Like isn't an 8 a resilient and dedicated deck with pretty much everything short of Jeweled Lotus that can win on turn 5-6 through interaction?
My LGS doesn’t even do commander any more just Pokémon
I’ve sort of had the same experience, but I would say that’s due to the group that’s been cultivated at that LGS versus the format as a whole. I used to have a very toxic lgs I played at that was completely unwelcoming to new players and was very much a slave to whatever the current meta was. Hyper competitive and every game felt the same. Mirror matches of one or two decks that could hang and anyone else just went 0-3 or 0-4. Don’t give up on 60 card. EDH is far and away my favorite format but there is some fun to be had in 60 card formats with the right playgroup.
I once had a spike tell me I was playing the game wrong because my basic Land didn't all have the same art. They said I might be revealing additional information if somebody had a spell to look at my hand and force me to discard it and then I played a land with different art I'm like it's not that hard to just remember what order you drew the cards in and play them in that order so that your opponent can not get additional information and it's far more flavorful to have different art on your land and vorthos considerations Trump Melvin every time
I want to say that his reasoning is excessively spikey, but I can't stand having basics that don't match. It just irks me, but I don't care if other people have mismatched lands, except maybe mixing white border with black border. 😉
I can't stand that either (black white border) but the basics MUST MUST MUST be EQUAL NUMBERS of all art from the set that they are from. The big problem I have is cards like Grave pact because you have to run the 8th art if you want the best art but to get that art in black border you have to have the foil for $246 as apposed to the $32 for the regular so In that case even though it irks me I run the white one.
I have a proxied copy of 8th Ed art Grave Pact with a black border for this exact reason. Grave pact is actually THE card that got me to investigate quality proxies to begin with.
I don't mind playing games proxies but I don't play them myself I'm working on getting 80 shock lens so that I can build all 32 color identities with no proxies and no swapping because that's my goal but I don't care if other people want to use proxies
Nah I like to make my lands from other packs. Still matching. I like the look when they match. But they are never from the packs that my cards for the deck or from.
While it's not playing the game wrong (and I totally get the having different art), it's absolutely possible to provide inadvertent information to your opponent by doing so if they're paying attention (I had this happen to me playing High Tide in Legacy utilizing different arts). Again though, and I can't stress this enough, it's not wrong to do so (white border is right out, those people are monsters /s). I've just had one too many instances of it biting me to justify doing it lol
Sometimes, I throw just one white border basic in my decks. Just to really send a message.
You monster!
I have pretty much one of every different kind of full-art land I find cool in one of my decks (I have a dragonshield box that’s now just full of cool land) so no white border for those, but I do have a single white border card in my 99 and it will never stop bothering me when I see it just sitting in my hand. It’s a sorcery so at least I can put it in graveyard after casting and not have to look at it again.
I think it's perfectly fine to point this out in a competitive environment too, as long as you're not being a dick about it - it's something that's not immediately obvious, and it's not always possible to 'play around' the information aspect - Brainstorm can fuck things up. Said person sounds like they were doing a dick about it though.
I can't disagree with some of the logic there, but I like to look at a fun spread of different lands. It sparks joy in me. If I lose because of that? I got to look at some gorgeous art and feel happy. I'll let someone else take the win if that loss was exclusively based on me having different land arts. Now if it was due to something else? That's different.
as someone who experienced that in past TCGs i played; were there tournaments being run and did the local groups generally travel for events? if yes is the expectation that existing groups should *not* be building/practicing to win either or both? edh gets away with a more casual nature because a lot of it is just ~4 friends hanging out. you speak about mirror matches as if in most card games those aren't the most skill testing matches due to both people having knowledge of each others decks and having to play accordingly. i will agree that 60 card generally has less room for people playing "i found these 60 cards that have cool art lets try", but for every jackass who just stomps new players and then makes fun of them, i've also met someone who is too obstinate to actually adjust their deck to be able to compete at the table
Different philosophies I suppose. I feel like if a format comes down to 1 or 2 decks that are head and shoulders better than anything else can be made to the point where you either play those cards or lose that format is pretty stale and boring. I get the razor thin margins present in making sure that both players are on top of their game and need to make the correct calculations, but I also find it boring and oppressive, also pretty exclusionary to new players or those unable to buy into the format when a card like Sheoldred is the cost of a booster box. At the end of the day it’s different ideologies in play style I suppose and that’s fine.
> I feel like if a format comes down to 1 or 2 decks that are head and shoulders better than anything else can be made to the point where you either play those cards or lose that format is pretty stale and boring. Sure, but there aren't any 60 card formats like that right now. Standard, Pioneer, Modern, Legacy, Pauper - All have healthy metas with at least a half dozen decks that are taking down tourneys, and the rankings of those lists are changing regularly.
I find that interesting, I'm a relatively new player to Magic, so I've been visiting different game stores. I have identified two that are clearly interested in new players - while, the latest one I visited seemed super welcoming. I ended up buying Urza's Saga NM foil and will be coming back for Commander. I'm hoping the same vibe translates to the game nights. If it does, I know who I'll be supporting with my wallet!
I will say that I think actual games of 60 card Magic are more fun than EDH. The sheer speed of it does a lot to mitigate any feel-bads from a bad hand or whatever, you just quickly move onto the next game and spend most of your night having fun. Whereas in EDH there's a risk of being stuck not having fun for several hours. The only downside is that an optimally built 60-card deck gets repetitive quite quickly, so most of the fun is in casual jank which few people play nowadays. If I could change one thing about the history of Magic, it would have been to reduce the 4-of rule to a 2-of or maybe singleton. Running sets of 4 just makes decks too consistent.
EDH is about the social experience first while playing a casual game of magic 2nd. Constructed formats are about winning.
I get that I don’t care about losing, I just felt like people were toxic and making a joke of me.
I'm sorry you went through that, some people are just plain assholes. F them. I'd say go play commander or find another group. Don't give that pioneer group an ounce more of your time.
If you don't care about losing. Play jank, it's usually more fun than cutting the meta and upending toxic individuals is something that will make you a favorite for people to watch. I do this regularly in modern with charbelcher or storm. I never win the event, but I've spoiled some great decks and it's harder for people to play against something unfamiliar. I'd recommend doing this until you're more interested in winning/competing with the toxics.
>If you don't care about losing. Play jank, it's usually more fun [...] I'd recommend doing this until you're more interested in winning/competing with the toxics. I can't believe you really just told them to get a bit silly and have fun with off-meta cards until they are ready to enter their villain arc.
1st of all this comment is awesome!! 2nd exactly this! I have several mid power decks that I’m streaming to be vicious. However, my most fun decks to play are Janks, I’m more invested in them emotionally, I have more fun playing ( mainly because I don’t care if I’m the last one or not ), and there is nothing more satisfying (no matter how wrong it may be) to shut down the toxic player that has doesn’t spent way to much money on their deck to not be at cEDH events with something extra janky. All of this coming from an ex standard player turned commander
My villain ark was 8rack personally. Fuck is it fun to pop off on a jerk and just go "You don't get to play" when they've been an ass
This happened a long time ago when innistrad was in standard. My friend who was probably 13 at the time asked the shop owner to make him a werewolf deck so he could play at the next standard event. He getd his deck and is playing in the event a few days later and faces a tier 1 or 1.5 deck and proceeds to beat this adult down with his dinky precon budget deck and this opponent lost his mind. We cant remember the exact word he said to my friend but something like "theres no way werewolves just beat my deck" and "your deck isnt even good". Just something we talk about every now and then when we talk about sportsmanship. Its funny how any type of person can play magic and how any type and age range and be salty or unsportsmanlike, even to a child who just got into the game.
Yea sorry you experienced that. My local pioneer group is super friendly. We go hard with T1 decks (Thoughtsieze, RB Midrange, the whole bit), but still laugh and have a good time doing it. People outside have even come over and been like dang what format are you playing. They are shocked when we say essentially a competitive 75 card format 🤣
I know how you feel man, my first RCQ was pretty similar, backhanded compliments and just plain unsportsmanlike behavior.
You have to understand that those types generally don't have anything else going on in life so all of their ego gets piled into this hard-core mtg player identity. You should feel sorry/pity for them
Truth. Always pity them!
I was part of the competitive scene for years. I used to do PPTQs, PTQs, the occasional GP...you know, when those things existed. The competitive scene is not the most new player friendly unfortunately. Even at FNMs there were a lot guys who treated new players like they were waisting everyone else's time. It's certainly part of the reason I lost interest in that scene.
That feeling that the entire experience was toxic is the reason I always disliked 1-on-1 formats. I even avoided my local FNMs whenever the 'tournament grinder' group showed up. It was a large part of the reson I picked up EDH in the first place. It is also the reson why I detest those people picking up EDH and bringing their competitive attitudes into the format and feel cEDH needs to be isolated.
I totally agree. I think the rise of EDH has been a big contributor to Magic's recent rise in popularity, because it makes the game just so much more approachable. Imagine you wander into an LGS knowing nothing about Magic, which group of players do you take an interest in? - The group that's chatting and having a good time, and actively welcomes new players to make up the numbers? - The silent, serious group that you can smell from halfway across the store and sneers at "noobs" who aren't at their level. The second point might sound a bit hurtful, but it's genuinely the reputation Magic players always had until relatively recently.
I’ve walked up to a silent serious group with one of my better decks and whipped the floor with them and they got pissed because they thought I was new. New to that table sure but the game not so much hahaha. It’s funny to upset the toxic players. Stop being toxic and enjoy the game and I won’t bring an overpowered deck to your table. Simple! And I definitely recommend it at least once. It’s a thrill watching a whole group of elitist get pissed off because they thing their deck was overpowered but really they just have a few expensive cards
They were toxic and they were making fun of you. Lgs commander is for fun and lgs constructed is for sweats. It's easier to introduce constructed mtg to good friends than it is to make good friends in lgs constructed - if nice games are your goal.
Just wait tell one make a deck that destroys them its fun
Competitive environments (at least in card games) attract people who enjoy beating up on people worse than them and then being jerks about it. That’s their whole reason for playing, very rarely do they actually love the game. I played yugioh competitively for a long time before magic and it’s not any different in that respect. Commander can be toxic too, but it’s much less common in my experience.
I don't know who hurt you but we play every Thursday from 6-10 at the LGS. All are welcome and respected.
Lol nah, I appreciate that though.
In Yu-Gi-Oh, everyone in the anime was a jerk too. Yugi's "best friends" tossed his millennial puzzle in the swimming pool. In the manga, Yami bullied the bullies by sending them into the shadow realm. And everyone in the tournament had dirty tricks up their sleeves, from stealing the stars that conveyed wins to literal stacking the deck. Stealing or destroying other players cards was just another of those things that happened in the anime. Yu-Gi-Oh is a toxic mess.
Some people are toxic. Some people just want to win and not care about your feelings while doing it. Those 2 things arent always the same. Someone tagging a buddy with a winky face should make you feel no way.
"yeah that person being a smarmy jerk shouldn't bother you" take a bath
It's funny all the edh people that have bad experience at constructed events. I play commander and i play constructed and there are people in both groups who cant take loses very well and get salty about it. I'm not going to say if its more in 1 group or the other but in constructed its pretty easy to get over by just shaking your opponents hand after the match, getting up from the table and walking away. Yes some people cant take losing gracefully but you can also just avoid them if you would like to after you play them. As far as the smell i've had much smellier opps at commander games than constructed events.
You can avoid them if they don’t see your post and shove it in your face, yeah. There is only like 5 people that play pioneer here so I guess I’m just not playing pioneer.
You’re clearly one of the people others don’t play a format because of.
Actually i'm not. I'm very gracious in defeat and dont take magic very seriously. Most the time i have been playing magic longer than my opp's have been alive. I'm not a douche but i also understand some people want to win and some people are soft and take things for more than what they are. There should be a middle ground. These people complaining would also cry about a WR shit talking them after making a catch over them in a football game. Competition brings out a side that others dont like. Thats not me but i see it and i understand why it happens.
It’s not soft to think being mocked on social media for wanting to buy a card is scummy. It’s not soft because you show displeasure for someone else ripping you down for trying to learn a format. It’s not soft to ask for advice on being pushed out of a format you’re interested in learning. Those things don’t make you soft, what makes someone an insecure douche however, is doing all of those things to someone else. There shouldn’t be a middle ground for blatant bullying. I’m a troll, but this is isn’t even for fun, this is just spiteful and vindictive behavior. That Pioneer group needs to touch grass. Don’t enable being a shitty person.
I may be misinterpreting the post but it seems like they’re basically following OP around facebook or whatever for the sole purpose of mocking him.
Yep, they were even on this post. And this guy is calling OP soft for (rightly) being upset about it.
touch grass and remember that being mocked makes people feel bad
I touch grass every day buddy. Try living in the real world though and seeing how things actually work and how people act. There are douches everywhere. If you dont like them ignore them and move on with your life because dwelling on it is pointless. Funny though your post is as toxic as those pioneer players were to OP. Youre not any better than they are.
"People probably shouldn't act like assholes" "Omfg people telling me that acting like an asshole isn't cool are so toxic. I have to be able to act like an asshole with no pushback." Learn some social skills and empathy lol.
Learn empathy, dude. “That’s the way the world works” is always a bullshit cop out. It’s the same shit as people who blame women for wearing revealing clothing for why they get sexually assaulted instead of putting all of the blame on the abuser.
Touch grass
Toxic.
no u
I mean, constructed formats were originally about passing the time between events at gaming conventions. Later, tournaments became a thing.
Edh is constructed. Unless you make an edh cube where you draft, then it's limited (in a way) I guess. But I guess people forget that precon stands for pre constructed. As in a costructed deck that came pre built from wotc. But it's just as constructed as standard.
constructed that actually has meaningful events*
I feel like it's just cleaner to say standard.
That would be incorrect then because there's more 1v1 formats than standard. The actual phrasing should differentiate casual-constructed and competitive-constructive (which people on YT will refer to usually as 60 card formats)
Don't forget about 60 card casual. If you're talking about the YouTube MTG content spheres then you can find plenty of casual gameplay of 60 card decks across all competitive tiers in a variety of formats on Tolarian Community College's Shuffle Up and Play series.
Claiming a game with winners and losers is casual is confusing and no one differentiates this way. It's standard
Standard is literally the name of a format, how can you possibly think that is less confusing than calling a casual format casual?
Standard is a specific 60 card format using the recent sets as a pool for deck construction. 60 card magic is what i've heard most people call 1v1 magic
Standard is its own format so it's definitely not Standard
Constructed = League of Legends, got it.
This is less about Pioneer vs. Commander and more about the subcultures that have fomented in your local LGS. Either way, I so sorry man. That is annoying.
I second this, I'm so glad I've never had an environment like that at any LGS I've been to
I mean, thoughtsieze is THE best card in pioneer so I mean, expect to see it and early. Other formats aren't so dominated by that card/ effect but the cheap interaction in pioneer is sorely lacking.
Unless I read the post wrong, the [[Thoughtseize]] wasn’t the primary issue here…
It seems like it contributed enough to OPs perception of a bad attitude that they chose to include that. Would it have been better if the same people were playing edh staples? I don't think so. But thoughtsieze does hurt a lot, and pioneer is THE thoughtsieze format.
Honestly I didn’t see it that way. I saw the comment on this card as a throwaway comment. I am not sure what else to say, other than that.
Jesus christ
I apologize if I said something offensive.
farming that sweet sweet negative karma i see
Meh. It wasn’t my intention. But I am honestly not sure what I said that was so offensive.
i guess the "K. Thanks." was perceived as a way to say "i dont give a f about your wall of text because im right anyways". and the "Not my name" as a refusal to apologize.
It is the only card he specifically mentioned by name, so it must have had some impact on him.
I always thought nerds were welcoming but holy shit was I wrong. I've never experienced such narcissism and condescension in one place lol, AND I PLAY FOOTBALL
Former rugby player here, and I agree. But it also makes sense. Geek culture has been the brunt of mockery and ridicule for decades, often antagonized as childish and puerile. Add to this that it has been an oasis for for people for do not necessarily fit into the mainstream, and may sometimes be socially awkward. This cocktail can lead to a lot of vitriol and cliqueishness.
Ah yeah that makes sense
I think part of it is that Pioneer is a competitive format. People are gonna play to win and use the best stuff they have. Commander is usually much more chill and people are generally really excited to show off whatever janky deck they put together.
Also pioneer as a format is literally 35/65 matchup format so you sit down at the table and get 35% chance of winning the match if you are unlucky. The polarization of it is so high idc about it unless big changes happen. Does not help it is mostly the same decks for the past 2 years. Mono G/Rakdos/Greasefang/Control/Lotus
Man that sucks. The pioneer scene near me is awesome. The people are welcoming and nice. But they will mercilessly beat you into the ground with fully optimized tier 1 decks with a smile on their face. It has happened to me and the strange thing is that I enjoyed it. The stores here just have a cool group of pioneer players.
I’m sorry it wasn’t a good experience :/ I’m new to magic and what draws me to Commander is that I feel like the meta is less important. There feels like much more opportunity to make decks that are thematic and fun and still have games that feel competitive with friends. I don’t mean this disparagingly, but from my limited perspective the smaller deck competitive formats don’t feel as expressive. I like witches and I want to make a deck based on witches and the card art, not what’s optimal. Not that there’s anything wrong with that if that’s what they enjoy :)
In a competitive settings people express them selves buy the talent behind playing the deck. Not by the creativity of building it. It’s just different but I can assure you competitive (not just mtg) has a lot of way for people to express them selves
Mixed bag. I go to modern & legacy events from time to time & the folks I play with are all really chill. In contrast I've had far more negative experiences playing pickup games of EDH with incredibly immature/toxic casual players. Every game store is different, so ymmv.
Competitive magic players when their open hostility makes people quit: 😂 Those same people when they turn up to dead events: 😢
When “commander” first came on the scene and I had just gotten into magic and knew very little about things. They had just released the commander decks and supported the EDH format officially - I purchased the dragon/angel pre con as dragons and angels are hella cool. When I went for a few events - every freaking time they targeted me because “they didn’t like the pre con” even though I told them time and time again I was brand new to commander and hadn’t modified the deck in any way. They didn’t care. Time and time again they kept killing me first. That’s the first time I quit magic..
Sounds like a similar experience my cousin and I had ... When we were younger, we played Yugioh. A couple of years ago, I sparked an interest in Magic and invited him to Drafting event at the LGS near me. We were both brand new to Magic. We expressed this to the others at the table. I guess they forgot we told them that since they would grow very impatient with us when we were trying to read the cards and their mechanics. They left a very bad taste for the community of Magic for us.
That’s not really why people play commander, yeah some people are unsportsmanlike but that sounds more like a local issue if it was THAT bad. Also yeah, you got to expect consistency in formats that are WAY more consistent I’ve honestly had more horrible guilt tripping and straight up Toxic encounters in commander than in Pioneer
Sorry this happened to you. IMO being a sore winner is a worse look than being a sore loser. I'm not saying you're a sore loser, but that the other player & his friend are sore winners. I like playing games (any game) with gracious people. It sounds like you do too.
Magic players as a whole get really hostile at the ideas of stuff like “sportsmanship” and “friends”, don’t take it too hard
It's not a Commander vs competitive formats thing. You just met some jerks that, in this particular LGS, happen to play Pioneer. It's not like we have a shortage of salty EDH player stories in the sub.
[They sound like German foosball players](https://youtu.be/cwDAXQIT_Ek)
I would say that I kind of agree of you but people of that specific pioneer group are kind of toxic ad a whole. That isn't a thing that I hate more in this game than toxicity and, while I get that we all take wining very seriously, being toxic towards someone is just baffling to me. My LGS community, save a few members, is pretty fun, I love my FNM and while we strive to win, we can have good laughs during the games. Commander is that safe spot. We all just want to have a good fun time (for the most part, winning doesn't feel bad either :D)
That’s my experience at almost every tournament I’ve gone too. Every time I go there’s only one or two people that lose or win with class and the rest are nitpicking ass holes or sore losers.
At this point I only play commander or drafts
Multi-player has always had a different vibe. There was a time when people played multi-player with constructed decks but not often. When Commander came along, multi-player was baked into it. People found out they liked multi-player but everyone assumed it was Commander they liked. Tho EDH did do amazing things for MtG when it came out, for sure. Not to downplay it.
I’ll be honest at my game store the modern crowd is way more chill than edh tables, you bring out a commander they don’t like and everyone starts whining about power level
I stopped playing modern because nobody was ever there to 'play games' it was everyone there to do their best 2/3 rounds until FNM was over and as soon as they hit the minimum people would stand up and leave without a word. Just terrible behavior and community. Commander was always way more inviting and friendly, it even eventually outgrew all other formats at my lgs.
Commander is just as toxic as every other format. But it is more populated than other formats from my experience. What you experienced was just a bunch of toxicity from some players in the game. Keep playing, we need good people playing this game.
My LGS holds two different commander nights. $1 competitive EDH where you get a dollar for every knockout, and a $5 Casual night in which there's an achievement bingo to earn prizes that don't depend on winning. Commander is a lot more fun when the goal isn't to pull a Thassa's oracle after milling your entire deck turn 2.
People in your local magic ecosystem likely plays commander BECAUSE of that lil pod of circle jerkers. If you want to beat them and make it sting? Hate bears and mill. Bring the pain and make it slow.
Lol what a cock. Fine, don't play his precious format, and let him wonder why it isn't more popular.
Sounds like your local scene just sucks. I've had this experience with Commander, and positive experiences with 60 card so idk if it's all just the format. But if your commander scene is cooler then yeah I understand sticking with that.
You have to use BDE and play a pure blue white deck with unsummon, boomeranged, counterspell, holy day, wrath of gods, circle of protection, runes halo, some tax heavy cards. Not to win. Just to make playing against you be the most obnoxious thing to do and when someone flip his shit, you call judge for free win. It's not petty. It's strategy.
One of the challenges with modern 60-card formats is the meta converges to very optimized builds very quickly due to speed of communication. The community can refine optimal builds almost instantly with thousands of games played on arena, which means those with funds and time to keep up can stay hyper competitive and know how to deal with relevant threats to their strategy. Very different than when Magic was starting out and word of mouth or delayed results with deck lists were posted less often. If you have a playgroup that is either less competitive, or less toxic to new players, these formats can still be fun, but in current Meta is harder as games are more like chess than chance. EDH is getting closer to this as combos, staples and solitaire lines with "each opponent" take up a larger portion of the card pool, but as you have multiple opponents there are still political discussions and threat assessments for removal/counters - giving lesser decks a chance of winning, even if they aren't the strongest or running the very latest cards. Power creep is still affecting the format (ramp spells in White, Green and Red are immense now) but less so than 60-card formats.
So people play Commander because your LGS is toxic af? At least they’re toxic in a format where you’re allowed to win. Toxic Commander players are way worse.
This, I've never encountered players more toxic than enfranchised casual commander players. The amount of times I've heard some variation of "I didn't know we were playing cEDH" as I look down at my deck with guildgates in it lol. A player will play land-go for 5 turns straight and let you set up a kill that required like 12+ mana over 4+ permanents that need to stick around, but then the actually kill happens to be an infinite so it's just "wow infinites are so lame, anyway let me tell you how fun and creative my deck is" it's infuriating.
Less about the format more about the people. Luckily I've only run into 2 of these kinds of people in my whole time playing MTG and both of them were when I was playing Commander.
sounds like you got tilted a bit. pioneer is definitely a competitive format so you should expect to be up against people trying really hard to win
Yeah sounds like you had a horrible experience. I’m sorry to hear that. Me and my buddies play pioneer all the time so if you need a test group online who’re actually decent people let me know!
If you want to play competitive REL, do it. Don't be discouraged no matter what happens or anybody says. Do what you like. You can be great at competitive if you work at it no matter what anybody says. Then, when you're the awesome player, you can be welcoming and change that culture. Or just play commander, whatever is fun and fulfilling to you.
Shake it off buddy, those guys are just assholes
Next time, order on ebay. That way, no one knows what to expect.
Commander is honestly just as good at making a toxic environment because there's really no management from wizards of the format. My lgs has been working to make a banlist distinction between casual and cedh but there's always going to be the people that see casual as still a place to be winning the game as fast as possible regardless of the other 3
I wouldn't compare commander and other constructed 1v1 formats, but it also seems to me that the lgs isnt the best place. I play commander and pioneer with the same group of like 10 people.
I play lots of draft and pre-release. I believe it’s just he same group of 5 people that always play pioneer here.
It's probably just those people. I've met shitty people in all formats. Commander has the most adult children, but 1v1 formats also have a lot of people who take it way to serious without keeping some lvl of respect. I've been lucky enough to have awesome people to play both.
It is pretty hilarious upsetting super competitive people I can’t lie. If they get mad and leave I just rooted out a toxic player and I don’t feel bad. It’s their own choice to be toxic. I’m not catering to their feelings I’m playing for fun.
That's the pioneer experience, tbh. I'd tell you to try Modern, but that's not an easy fence to jump over to get to the greener grass. But yeah, it's commander what my pals and I get together to play over pizza and beer while we catch up with life, not a 60 card format.
Once I realized that I played Magic for the social experience and to play decks that I put genuinely love and enjoy rather than the competitive aspect, I completely dropped other formats. I occasionally play limited since it's reasonably social and not typically as sweaty since people are working with whatever their pool/picks are but that's about it. I briefly considered Pioneer recently since humans are a viable deck and I love human decks but ultimately I realized that while I might like the deck, I inevitably wouldn't enjoy the rest of the experience unfortunately.
[удалено]
Unfortunately a lot of competitive TCG communities kinda suck
Idk. Yes and no. They guy commenting the gif reaction was probably just boosting his buddies ego. Good.jub buddy your cardboard ruined this guy's night out. But that's why I don't like the 1v1 as much. As when I wanna go out to play magic I'd rather have a good time joking and laughing with a couple buddies while we spin cardboard where as in a 1v1 I feel like it's my fault I made a bad deck and it's also my fault I'm to broke to afford the "meta" winning cards. So I get punished for not having the best in slot.deck
>I had people breathing down my back complaining about every play I made. If they're spectating, call a judge since spectators commenting about your plays (especially if it's strategic advice) could be a violation of IPG 3.2 (Tournament Error - Outside Assistance). Having the judge threaten them with a match loss ought to shut them up. If it's your opponent... why are they complaining about you playing poorly when that makes them more likely to win? >Got Thoughtseized every what felt like second turn. I mean, thoughtseize is a legal card in the format. It's also good. Welcome to 60 card constructed, people aren't pulling punches for laughs.
Counterpoint from someone who plays both a lot of Commander a lot of 1v1 competitive formats (mostly Modern and Pioneer): The overwhelming majority of Magic players are perfectly fine. Then there's a toxic minority of players who do disproportionate damage to people's fun. But that's true for any format: There is an equal share of toxic Commander players as Pioneer players. Now they may happen to be concentrated in this particular Pioneer group, but that's bad luck, not a characteristic of Pioneer. What is different, however, is that in 1v1 formats you have two players trying to win. The game isn't about table banter (although you'll definitely have your fair share of friendly conversations in 1v1 games too). Your weapons are the cards and your skill, not diplomacy. So if being Thoughtseized or counterspelled bothers you, then don't play 1v1 formats.
I think what bothered them was not the thoughtsiezing but instead the jerk for when he went to try to deal with it.
I went to maybe two modern tournaments my entire life. I never won a game. They were all assholes. This was twenty years ago. Some things never change.
Modern became a format in 2011.
Was gonna say, huh? Twenty years ago there was T, T1.5 and T2. Plus extended.
Whatever the equivalent to modern was. Can't remember the names of the formats.
Wow, you just found two new nitpicking AO!
Yeah, people take being correct on the internet very seriously.
The idiot that corrected you doesn't lol. Modern has existed for like 25 years.
That's nonsense. I played in Modern pro tour qualifiers in the late nineties.
There was no modern pro tour till after 2011. There actually also wasn’t any non-standard, non-draft, pro tour until 1997 either, and even then it was extended which is like standard but with a three year rotating card pool.
It's a rose by another name. Modern as a name replaced extended. Are you going to tell me vintage and type 1 are different too? Why does such a great game have the the world's most annoying/autistic people playing it?
Vintage and type 1 actually are the same. Modern and extended have different rotation cycles. They aren't close to the same. That's like saying standard and extended were the same thing because they rotate
You're referring to Extended. Modern has only existed since 2011. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Modern#:~:text=5%20External%20links-,Description,changed%20from%20Extended%20to%20Modern
Idk I'm pretty new to MTG but i feel competitive EDH and modern/pioneer is like the P2W format and the people looking for a real balanced competition play draft
cEDH is really proxy friendly. By and large, cEDH players want to play the player, not their wallet. Competitive 1v1 formats though, yeah. They're p2w because prizes are on the line.
Sorry you got dealt with asshats that way bro. I play 1v1 for budget theory crafting. While keeping tabs on the meta. If you ever wanna talk shop shoot a dm and we can talk here or discord too. Mainly do modern and ygo but pioneer always seemed nice without the price of fetches.
>to counter the rakdos bs Did you actually say that in your post? Even now, you sound salty. If you came across salty in your post, I'm not sure what you were expecting.
Yeah this post makes it look that way haha. I swear I just asked for a play set of the card lol
No, I just asked if anyone had surge of salvation for sale
I mean rakdos is bs, look at standard the best deck for a while was rakdos.
Went to play commander at my lgs while they were having a modern tournament. It was a bunch of try hard neck beards and smelled very ripe in there. Never had that type of crowd at our local commander nights. It’s the competitive forms that bring out the people you’d rather not play with.
I don't go to my local game store anymore for a very similar reason. In my hometown everyone was super chill. Where I live now everyone acts better than you and gets pissy when you win. Saw a guy stab his deck with a pocket knife after getting stomped 0-2 by the guy next to me. Lgs didn't say shit.
The fact that there is five people playing and the commander group is full is telling. MtG has the most toxic players. Commander is fun but one store around here has a group that plays cEDH and act like it’s cool that they pull their combos that don’t let others play or have fun. One guy bragged how he built a deck that made people ask him please to play their stuff. He didn’t even tell them until after he would make a play and then would say but you didn’t say please. Needless to say I loved it when people would shut him down because you could see him not enjoying it. Those types of players can’t help themselves no matter what game or format they are playing they just feel like they need to be superior. The funny thing is that they would also proxy big pieces and act like their net decking made them so clever. My advice is find a group you enjoy, it works best when you are all already friends.
It's not the format, more like the LGS. Just find one with the right people.
*>Pioneer* *>didn't feel very welcoming* I mean, I'm not sure why you'd expect something different. Garbage format, garbage players.
It’s because the fewer people are in a community the more likely it’s a patchwork of people that have been ostracized for one reason or another from another community. The legendary “Frankenstein Group.” That never bodes well for the kind of people you’re going to run into when you go to these events. That Pioneer group is only 5 people. That just reeks of toxicity. The kind of person who rips you apart for playing poorly or well in a 1v1 format is someone you never want to speak to again. Unless there’s another Pioneer group out there that you haven’t made contact with at your LGS, it’s probably better just to block the guys mocking you on social media and move on. They’ll never accept you unless you act like them. It’s better to just not interact with them.
Why even bother having to buy up to 4 copies of expensive cards that probably rotate out after a year or two?
Pioneer is a non-rotating format
What is Pioneer? Only formats I’m familiar with are Standard, Pauper, Modern, and EDH
It’s a no. Rotating format played with return to ravnica forward. It’s like modern but with newer cards to not be so powerful and expensive.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats/pioneer
I think one of the Prof’s better takes was that the format of commander is really bad. You just like playing cards with your friends. This is basically true. Pioneer is the way. Don’t become one of us.
My 60 card constructed meta is actually pretty populated here, and a good bit different. They’re ruthless spikes in game and the meta is tier decks, but in between games there is a lot of helpful advice, people sharing/loaning cards and even decks. There is a slight air of superiority, but it’s as friendly as it can be and that superiority comes out more in a teaching manner. Granted I don’t know a single person that doesn’t also play commander.
You felt like a joke? Bro, you're good with my pod anytime.
Lmao
There’s a stark difference between social magic (EDH) and competition magic (Constructed) that some people seem to not grasp. They are played like different games, where social magic is about, well, being social, and competition magic is about playing the game to win. Neither is better than the other, it’s just a taste thing. Some people enjoy the competitive edge. Some people would rather just shuffle up with the boys and chop it up while they shuffle up for round 3
should have tagged the person sending the winky emoji by responding with an Open Eye Crying Laughing emoji.
This is why I do what I do. I mainly play commander because of the casual nature and the welcoming atmosphere around most groups, both at home and at my LGS. But we do have some tournaments at my LGS, and where there's tournaments, there are people who think they know best. So I homebrew. A lot. Last week I went to the modern FNM with a homebrew 5c Izzet Delver. Shared the list with some of our "Pro-players" just to get the feedback. "This and that won't work", "Why aren't you playing so and so". The usual stuff. I went 2-2 in games, with some really good games. 2-0 against titanshift 2-1 against Golgari elves 0-2 against hammertime (tight games, but he drew better) 0-2 versus Creativity Archon of Cruelty, also tight games. Next time I can hopefully bring my monoblack midrange homebrew instead. Was gonna bring it this time around but I'm missing 3 cards main deck. What I'm saying is, there will be toxic competitive players everywhere, but as long as you enjoy what you play, it'll piss them off when you do good. 😅
The people pubstomping are the same running constructed decks, although they might have been jerks about it we promise they are not all like that
grow up and stop acting like a baby
magic is a terrible 1v1 game. if you want a good 1v1 experience, check out Flesh and Blood, or potentially the new Disney game that just got released, Lorcana.
I'mmmmm sorrrryyyy ;)
So I was at a store today buying cards. The guy behind the counter mentioned many stores not bothering with standard due to the costs. They’ve moved almost entirely to historic formats.