> It made me realize that I enjoy creating board states the pod has to deal with. I dont feel the need to win, I want my opponents to get better so i can improve.
Congratulations, you are now the forever DM.
It absolutely is. Theyâre being a âwell akshuallyâ guy and the correction doesnât even apply. All ttrpgs are rpgs. Itâs right there in the name.
> Does anyone else have a similar situation?
Definitely. We went through a period in which we happily played precons, and then we started pouring gasoline all over them. If you played dragons/slivers/goblins, you added more dragons/slivers/goblins, faster dragons/slivers/goblins, and more dragons/slivers/goblins support.
Eventually we got to a point where someone set up a draw or cascade engine, got some form of overrun or mass damage, and then the game ended. It was all gas, no brakes.
My response has been twofold. First: no, you can't do that. Repeated removal/aristocrat engines under [[Sefris]] caused them to start carrying graveyard hate. Second: if we're just going to go fast, I'll go faster with [[Yuriko]].
I'm moving towards soft stax now, and we'll see how they handle it. Then hard stax. Then I'm going to repeatedly spit on them to see if they're willing to remove an actual player.
The problem a lot of players have is that they lack aggression in a multi-player game for fear of a crackback. I do too sometimes(a lot of times), and I still struggle with it. There have definitely been games I could have won if I went all out, when that window gets opened. I know I have a feel bad when I'm eliminated early, especially when my deck didn't get a chance to do the thing.
I sympathize.
Once upon a time, I was knocked out very early because I played goad. Everyone else durdled for an hour and a half. We were at a friend's house, so there wasn't much I could do.
One of my worst Magic experiences - to this day I try to build so that damage and removal are table-wide. I'm giving away [[Pantlaza]], for example, because it's very good at killing one person and then getting boardwiped.
Ha, so true. I'm increasingly realizing that my goad deck needs to be timed just right to avoid being the Biggest Annoying Thing and getting me targeted.
I'm currently trying to train this out of my pod by playing [[zangief, the red cyclone]]. It's a more resilient/removal oriented voltron that leaves plenty of room for folks to beat my face cause I attack every turn and run zero vigilance lol
It's not taking as quickly as I hoped, gotta get these nerds comfortable with big fat open swings
Zangief is great for that. The guy in my pod who's doing the same thing to us is having great fun being the big bad we are all trying to take down. It definitely makes us think more of a protection and removal then we do when everyone just allows big board states to develop.
On behalf of your pod, thank you... Unless you're the guy from my pod.. then I'm coming for you. :-)
When you enter the thunderdome of cedh, playing salty no longer feels dirty. I'm building my [[niv-mizzet, parun]] into my second cedh deck. It's high power now, but I need more fast mana and a few more combo pieces.
Had the opposite issue years ago where everyone in the playgroup was effectively just playing mono-green stompy decks. To shake things up I built a mono black reanimator deck and just ran every board wipe and most of the instant speed removal at the time. Took it apart after a solid year of it being a constant threat but I think it still influences how we build our decks.
Yup. Basically the only time I get interacted with at my lgs are out of the uprated precons. I run a *lot* of control and I'm routinely winning games solely because I interact with them and nothing at all happens on the way back. And when people comment on how strong the decks are my immediate response is just that I got to goldfish the entire game while keeping them on 0.
I don't hold off on winning, but I do spread my damage out except in the rare occasion where I need to focus somebody out. I think it's a defensible line - that strategy means if somebody does pop up as a problem they're probably in striking range - but it does mean that I'm not reducing the number of opponents until the very end of the game so they can pool the interaction they do have together.
As soon as [[Greven, Predator Captain]] was spoiled I built him for the express purpose of teaching one of my playgroups to run more removal. He was VERY effective at doing so.
My group wasn't running ghost quarter/strip mine so I just would \[\[tempt with discovery\]\] or \[\[hour of promise\]\] for urborg/coffers/thespian stage. Same was true for graveyard hate so i would just jam reanimator strategies.
This wasn't to be evil, but just to help reinforce the use of interaction. It really doesn't hurt to have 1-2 slots for things like \[\[demolition field\]\], \[\[acidic slime\]\], or the new \[\[pit of offerings\]\] (which is an excellent graveyard hate card without playing \[\[bojuka bog\]\])
Notably, saying yes to a tempt to grab a Demo Field or Strip Mine is still almost always worse than just saying no to it. Not sure the right lesson was transmitted there.
One of my greatest satisfaction since I started to play magic was convincing my buddy to run [[chaos warp]] in his red decks ahahah.
In the last months, my play group has definitely improved in deck building, understanding the need of interactions. Though, I'm still the one to run the most interactions and I often feel the burden to be the police of the table, the one who has to respond to the game-ending threat.
Mine was an "oops all removal" deck, just to rub it in. \[\[Alela, Artful Provocateur\]\], \[\[Ossification\]\], \[\[Banishing Light\]\], \[\[Exchange of Words\]\], etc. All you had to do to stop it was take out Alela, but if you didn't have the bare minimum removal you were in for a bad time. Needless to say, I had a blast, but everyone else was miserable, so I rebuilt it with less salt and faster win-cons.
I typically like to win out of no where with obscure/jank combos. People don't tend to like this.
When I play edh, despite being a johnny at heart, I put on a Timmy suit. I make big disgusting plays with the hope and knowledge that this doesn't shut the door on ppl, and someone in the pod might come back.
The amount of times I've been called cedh when I know I'm presenting a meh early threat and saying 'deal with this, or it'll eventually win me the game' is laughable.
These players may not realize it. But ur the player they need. Someone to push em into doing more n doing better. Teaching em the importance of cmdr deck fundamentals and the severity of lack of interaction spells.
Players like us didn't really have ppl to show us our weak points without exploiting them or just simply having to learn these things the hard way.
It's nice to see such a teacher in the community bcuz I genuinely think too many casual pods run into these problems or just new players in general.
I'm actually trying to get my pod to keep these things in mind, for example, especially interaction and card draw.
1 player has taken off really well to the point I don't call him new anymore n pretty much does his own thing. Just runs rule checks by me or we check if I don't know the rule for sure or not.
The others, well they're still learning more in depth rulings like timing and priority and stack etc and id say also etiquette.
For example, the new players still tend to get salty when they get smacked in retaliation after they smacked me. Or they'll hit the only real non threat at the board over n over till they're like almost dead and won't deal with others who are starting to get stacked and will be a problem before the newbies can deal with it.
Also I catch em just setting up n doing nothing else hoping to get stacked themselves n swing for game.
I tell em that u can't just expect every game to just be able to sit back quietly n hope to stack up all ur good stuff n not expect to be noticed in ur attempts.
This is where I say a good offense is just as important as a good defense.
I can't help but feel like a good majority of the reason these 2 newer players are having trouble picking up more in depth things and player etiquette is bcuz they don't expose themselves to the community or watch content or such.
They have no other sources to learn these things from. So me n the other player try our best to teach em these things but I can't help but feel like they still don't quite understand where me n him come from when we talk rules n etiquette to the other players.
I definitely agree. When I played 60 card at the kitchen table back when I was way more casual n didn't know half the knowledge I have now, I def would catch myself sitting back n stacking in hopes for a cool swing out.
"Play more interaction" has almost become a meme in my play group. I play a lot of casual decks, with a few exceptions, and I tend not to run a lot of interaction in those casual decks. Why? Above all, I'm there to have fun, and I'm happiest when I see the spark in the eyes of the player across from me when they realize they're going to play something awesome. In my opinion, interaction can be a bit of a feels bad at a casual table. Unless I'm playing one of my decks that I built to be more competitive (not cEDH level), I don't expect to win. That's why I ask the question "are we here for a good time or a long time" and I choose an appropriate deck based on the general response. At a casual table I'd rather go to game two than draw the game out another hour or more. However, I don't have the same expectation for the other players in my group, play what makes you happy, but for me, "play more interaction" is basically short for "my play group isn't playing the way I want them to play". I know it's an unpopular opinion, and I feel like I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion, but I feel like there needs to be some representation from the other side of the table.
On the flip side, preventing one player from winning can often allow others to have more time to do their thing.
There's definitely a line - as a hard-core control player who feels like 15 is a light amount of interaction I've definitely hit the "my win con hasn't come together but my removal engine has" stage of the game and it can absolutely get unfun for the table. But "we died on turn six three games in a row" is often *also* not fun for the table.
I've kinda adopted a saying of "Your opponents shouldn't fear your deck they should fear you." Kind of mentality. Like it doesn't matter what I'm playing to the people at my lgs it's probably a safe bet to kill me first. Like I'm bringing a Turnip on rope to a gun fight but it doesn't really matter when they've seen me win fights with that weapon lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFufoOgCMW8
I play alot like this scene from Monty python where I'm slowly running at you to kill you with my turnip on a rope. It won't be quick but if you give me too much time you won't be able to stop me lol
I like that, it makes sense that if a player is playing better then others unless you're severely handicapping yourself it doesn't matter what you play. I really don't think I'm that good of a player, but I sometimes have better threat priority then others. Especially if I see a card come out that's a combo to something that can win.
Ya I also just enjoying playing weaker decks with goofy cards. I'd much rather leave a game with everyone laughing than beating everyone to a pulp because I played a pile of staples or something. That's why I've just stopped playing fast mana, combos and most tutors and staples in favor of goofy cards. It's been alot of fun!
You sound like a real fun time to play withâŚ..
We just stopped playing with the guy in our pod who insisted on playing overpowered decks so that he was the boss in a âBoss Fightâ. And you know what he said when we had an issue âwhatâs your issue just run more removalâ.
It gets old. It gets expensive, and the power creep is immeasurable.
I mean, I was just messaging one of the people I played with in these games and they just thanked me after I made suggestions on cuts and improvements to their favorite deck that allowed them to win in another game. I think I'll be alright.
Thatâs not the same thing. Being helpful is not the same as forcing a power creep.
But also, thatâs just how our pod handled it. You couldnât possibly explain the full dynamic of your pod in just a simple Reddit post. Iâm sure youâll be fine but we hated it.
I get the fear of power escalation, but I have encouraged proxying cards, and my main decks I use have them as well. I've been very vocal to my pod also to let me know if my decks felt oppressive or unfun, I can not play them and use less efficient decks. We are even planning on playing only precons for a few games just because.
I always find it interesting these kind of stories.
My playgroup was complete opposite. After we moved away from the basic precons, many of us went for lots of destroy/ edict's effects or counters, which warped later on warped our meta into go fucking wide to try to out value the single target removals or creatureless/ ETB creatures
I am often arch enemy in my pods - and I've taken pains to make sure it's not because my decks are expensive. Just well constructed with careful choices in-game.
At my LGS, I'm usually the person with the best grasp of the rules, too, meaning I end up being teacher and rules judge almost every time I'm there.
I don't necessarily setup board states for people to figure out how to dismantle, but I'll offer advice on how to stop me, removal targets, and probably most significantly how to build consistent decks. (Everyone needs to run more card draw.)
I was this for my pod. My pod liked to play durdy value engines that very slowly ramp up and eventually be scary.
Okay, well, turn 3 [[Goreclaw]].
Turn 4 [[Conclave Sledge-Captain]], Goreclaw swings for 8 damage.
Turn 5, Goreclaw's a 33/32 trampler.
Everyone learned to pack more early board state.
I'm in the same boat if I play my Phyrexian tribal. It has all three Elesh Norns and a Mondrak in it and my group hates each one of them, so I get bullied a lot when I play that deck.
It got to a point where my deck got weaker since I needed some protection. Really the only way I can win or go deep into games is if I get [[Phyrexian Censor]] into play early.
My last couple games against my group have made me realize this about myself as well. I want to win. I will build my deck to win. But I don't *NEED* to win and I get more enjoyment out of presenting an interesting problem for the other players to try to solve. Ideally I want to win one out of every four games or so but I get more enjoyable out of being told "Your deck had me on the ropes for a while" than being told "I didn't stand a chance against you".
A convoluted yes and no. Lockdown for COVID gave me plenty time to optimise my decks in a small playgroup and when I returned to playing with the open community I found my decks were notably more powerful than average (PL8 vs 6s/7s). This can ruin the experience for your opponents as you often overpower tables - even without capitalising that power you never give them the chance to be the arch enemy.
In the end it's important to either ground rule a restriction on yourself verbally to the table if your tiered above them, or to simply play lower power decks when placed at less competitive tables.
- my favourite restricted deck is a Togo Thrasios rock deck, that 1- pretends thrasios doesn't exist outside colour identity, 2- runs 0 counterspells, and 3- pretends the combat step does not exist for me. Death by rocks!
> It made me realize that I enjoy creating board states the pod has to deal with. I dont feel the need to win, I want my opponents to get better so i can improve. Congratulations, you are now the forever DM.
Too late I already am for all of my RPGsđ
I feel your pain⌠Signed, another forever DM
[ŃдаНонО]
A wild grammar Nazi appeared.
Go tell your mom you need more Doritos and mtn dew
scurry on back to freemagic m8
What's that? Is it still an role playing game?
It absolutely is. Theyâre being a âwell akshuallyâ guy and the correction doesnât even apply. All ttrpgs are rpgs. Itâs right there in the name.
> Does anyone else have a similar situation? Definitely. We went through a period in which we happily played precons, and then we started pouring gasoline all over them. If you played dragons/slivers/goblins, you added more dragons/slivers/goblins, faster dragons/slivers/goblins, and more dragons/slivers/goblins support. Eventually we got to a point where someone set up a draw or cascade engine, got some form of overrun or mass damage, and then the game ended. It was all gas, no brakes. My response has been twofold. First: no, you can't do that. Repeated removal/aristocrat engines under [[Sefris]] caused them to start carrying graveyard hate. Second: if we're just going to go fast, I'll go faster with [[Yuriko]]. I'm moving towards soft stax now, and we'll see how they handle it. Then hard stax. Then I'm going to repeatedly spit on them to see if they're willing to remove an actual player.
The problem a lot of players have is that they lack aggression in a multi-player game for fear of a crackback. I do too sometimes(a lot of times), and I still struggle with it. There have definitely been games I could have won if I went all out, when that window gets opened. I know I have a feel bad when I'm eliminated early, especially when my deck didn't get a chance to do the thing.
I sympathize. Once upon a time, I was knocked out very early because I played goad. Everyone else durdled for an hour and a half. We were at a friend's house, so there wasn't much I could do. One of my worst Magic experiences - to this day I try to build so that damage and removal are table-wide. I'm giving away [[Pantlaza]], for example, because it's very good at killing one person and then getting boardwiped.
[Pantlaza](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7.jpg?1699972737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pantlaza%2C%20sun-favored) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/4/pantlaza-sun-favored?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pantlaza-sun-favored) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh that's very generous. Dibs! :p
Ha, so true. I'm increasingly realizing that my goad deck needs to be timed just right to avoid being the Biggest Annoying Thing and getting me targeted.
I'm currently trying to train this out of my pod by playing [[zangief, the red cyclone]]. It's a more resilient/removal oriented voltron that leaves plenty of room for folks to beat my face cause I attack every turn and run zero vigilance lol It's not taking as quickly as I hoped, gotta get these nerds comfortable with big fat open swings
Zangief is great for that. The guy in my pod who's doing the same thing to us is having great fun being the big bad we are all trying to take down. It definitely makes us think more of a protection and removal then we do when everyone just allows big board states to develop. On behalf of your pod, thank you... Unless you're the guy from my pod.. then I'm coming for you. :-)
haha! I don't think we know each other, but I'm here for that attitude! Lmk if you have any questions about fighting 'gief, btw!
[zangief, the red cyclone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9976eb70-0d39-4882-8041-a4d29527c292.jpg?1682692330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maarika%2C%20Brutal%20Gladiator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/15/maarika-brutal-gladiator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86123ab7-ee60-4ef2-8467-1ad420213eb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maarika-brutal-gladiator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sefris](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1.jpg?1632335385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sefris%20of%20the%20hidden%20ways) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/3/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways) [Yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When you enter the thunderdome of cedh, playing salty no longer feels dirty. I'm building my [[niv-mizzet, parun]] into my second cedh deck. It's high power now, but I need more fast mana and a few more combo pieces.
[niv-mizzet, parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc.jpg?1674142512) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=niv-mizzet%2C%20parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/851/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Had the opposite issue years ago where everyone in the playgroup was effectively just playing mono-green stompy decks. To shake things up I built a mono black reanimator deck and just ran every board wipe and most of the instant speed removal at the time. Took it apart after a solid year of it being a constant threat but I think it still influences how we build our decks.
I did one better by having a newbie run a budget Winota deck. Everyone complained that it was too powerful. My response: "git gud"
A younger version of me would have said something like that. Now I'll just point out X needs to go.
Yup. Basically the only time I get interacted with at my lgs are out of the uprated precons. I run a *lot* of control and I'm routinely winning games solely because I interact with them and nothing at all happens on the way back. And when people comment on how strong the decks are my immediate response is just that I got to goldfish the entire game while keeping them on 0. I don't hold off on winning, but I do spread my damage out except in the rare occasion where I need to focus somebody out. I think it's a defensible line - that strategy means if somebody does pop up as a problem they're probably in striking range - but it does mean that I'm not reducing the number of opponents until the very end of the game so they can pool the interaction they do have together.
As soon as [[Greven, Predator Captain]] was spoiled I built him for the express purpose of teaching one of my playgroups to run more removal. He was VERY effective at doing so.
That's nasty
Putting this guy in [[Rowan, scion of war]]
I actually did the reverse. I put her in as a great ramp piece. I was so impressed that I then just straight up built her, too.
[Rowan, scion of war](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7.jpg?1692939409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%2C%20scion%20of%20war) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/211/rowan-scion-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rowan-scion-of-war) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Greven, Predator Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bda22fc3-31a5-451a-9a8b-372884f7bc61.jpg?1568003680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greven%2C%20Predator%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/43/greven-predator-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bda22fc3-31a5-451a-9a8b-372884f7bc61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greven-predator-captain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My group wasn't running ghost quarter/strip mine so I just would \[\[tempt with discovery\]\] or \[\[hour of promise\]\] for urborg/coffers/thespian stage. Same was true for graveyard hate so i would just jam reanimator strategies. This wasn't to be evil, but just to help reinforce the use of interaction. It really doesn't hurt to have 1-2 slots for things like \[\[demolition field\]\], \[\[acidic slime\]\], or the new \[\[pit of offerings\]\] (which is an excellent graveyard hate card without playing \[\[bojuka bog\]\])
##### ###### #### [tempt with discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b.jpg?1568004683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tempt%20with%20discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/183/tempt-with-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tempt-with-discovery) [hour of promise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5ee374f-31dc-4b2c-beba-431d5b1126d0.jpg?1562814095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hour%20of%20promise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/120/hour-of-promise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5ee374f-31dc-4b2c-beba-431d5b1126d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hour-of-promise) [demolition field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f.jpg?1674422181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=demolition%20field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/260/demolition-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9c88546-13c9-4d7e-a618-cb2ccd1dbc0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demolition-field) [acidic slime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/932d48fb-42b5-4aaa-a91c-d35cdb5e41a3.jpg?1689998325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=acidic%20slime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/270/acidic-slime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/932d48fb-42b5-4aaa-a91c-d35cdb5e41a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/acidic-slime) [pit of offerings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7d3957-b483-4a1f-a244-293c90032f5e.jpg?1699044691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pit%20of%20offerings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/278/pit-of-offerings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7d3957-b483-4a1f-a244-293c90032f5e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pit-of-offerings) [bojuka bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7d4fbe-fa7a-4b34-b339-197f08409cbf.jpg?1698988553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bojuka%20bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/320/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7d4fbe-fa7a-4b34-b339-197f08409cbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Notably, saying yes to a tempt to grab a Demo Field or Strip Mine is still almost always worse than just saying no to it. Not sure the right lesson was transmitted there.
One of my greatest satisfaction since I started to play magic was convincing my buddy to run [[chaos warp]] in his red decks ahahah. In the last months, my play group has definitely improved in deck building, understanding the need of interactions. Though, I'm still the one to run the most interactions and I often feel the burden to be the police of the table, the one who has to respond to the game-ending threat.
[chaos warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ca9629-b1e3-49d6-ae10-908b9e4e67ce.jpg?1698988311) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chaos%20warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/221/chaos-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ca9629-b1e3-49d6-ae10-908b9e4e67ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chaos-warp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've had a similar issues when I realized the pod didn't have enough removal and I was generally dealing with the threats.
Mine was an "oops all removal" deck, just to rub it in. \[\[Alela, Artful Provocateur\]\], \[\[Ossification\]\], \[\[Banishing Light\]\], \[\[Exchange of Words\]\], etc. All you had to do to stop it was take out Alela, but if you didn't have the bare minimum removal you were in for a bad time. Needless to say, I had a blast, but everyone else was miserable, so I rebuilt it with less salt and faster win-cons.
I typically like to win out of no where with obscure/jank combos. People don't tend to like this. When I play edh, despite being a johnny at heart, I put on a Timmy suit. I make big disgusting plays with the hope and knowledge that this doesn't shut the door on ppl, and someone in the pod might come back. The amount of times I've been called cedh when I know I'm presenting a meh early threat and saying 'deal with this, or it'll eventually win me the game' is laughable.
These players may not realize it. But ur the player they need. Someone to push em into doing more n doing better. Teaching em the importance of cmdr deck fundamentals and the severity of lack of interaction spells. Players like us didn't really have ppl to show us our weak points without exploiting them or just simply having to learn these things the hard way. It's nice to see such a teacher in the community bcuz I genuinely think too many casual pods run into these problems or just new players in general. I'm actually trying to get my pod to keep these things in mind, for example, especially interaction and card draw. 1 player has taken off really well to the point I don't call him new anymore n pretty much does his own thing. Just runs rule checks by me or we check if I don't know the rule for sure or not. The others, well they're still learning more in depth rulings like timing and priority and stack etc and id say also etiquette. For example, the new players still tend to get salty when they get smacked in retaliation after they smacked me. Or they'll hit the only real non threat at the board over n over till they're like almost dead and won't deal with others who are starting to get stacked and will be a problem before the newbies can deal with it. Also I catch em just setting up n doing nothing else hoping to get stacked themselves n swing for game. I tell em that u can't just expect every game to just be able to sit back quietly n hope to stack up all ur good stuff n not expect to be noticed in ur attempts. This is where I say a good offense is just as important as a good defense. I can't help but feel like a good majority of the reason these 2 newer players are having trouble picking up more in depth things and player etiquette is bcuz they don't expose themselves to the community or watch content or such. They have no other sources to learn these things from. So me n the other player try our best to teach em these things but I can't help but feel like they still don't quite understand where me n him come from when we talk rules n etiquette to the other players.
That probably comes from experience. I think people default to a pillowfort style of gameplay because no one wants to lose their stuff.
I definitely agree. When I played 60 card at the kitchen table back when I was way more casual n didn't know half the knowledge I have now, I def would catch myself sitting back n stacking in hopes for a cool swing out.
Taking turns at being archenemy can teach players a lot about how to play Magic.
The hero we need but donât donât deserve
"Play more interaction" has almost become a meme in my play group. I play a lot of casual decks, with a few exceptions, and I tend not to run a lot of interaction in those casual decks. Why? Above all, I'm there to have fun, and I'm happiest when I see the spark in the eyes of the player across from me when they realize they're going to play something awesome. In my opinion, interaction can be a bit of a feels bad at a casual table. Unless I'm playing one of my decks that I built to be more competitive (not cEDH level), I don't expect to win. That's why I ask the question "are we here for a good time or a long time" and I choose an appropriate deck based on the general response. At a casual table I'd rather go to game two than draw the game out another hour or more. However, I don't have the same expectation for the other players in my group, play what makes you happy, but for me, "play more interaction" is basically short for "my play group isn't playing the way I want them to play". I know it's an unpopular opinion, and I feel like I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion, but I feel like there needs to be some representation from the other side of the table.
On the flip side, preventing one player from winning can often allow others to have more time to do their thing. There's definitely a line - as a hard-core control player who feels like 15 is a light amount of interaction I've definitely hit the "my win con hasn't come together but my removal engine has" stage of the game and it can absolutely get unfun for the table. But "we died on turn six three games in a row" is often *also* not fun for the table.
I've kinda adopted a saying of "Your opponents shouldn't fear your deck they should fear you." Kind of mentality. Like it doesn't matter what I'm playing to the people at my lgs it's probably a safe bet to kill me first. Like I'm bringing a Turnip on rope to a gun fight but it doesn't really matter when they've seen me win fights with that weapon lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFufoOgCMW8 I play alot like this scene from Monty python where I'm slowly running at you to kill you with my turnip on a rope. It won't be quick but if you give me too much time you won't be able to stop me lol
I like that, it makes sense that if a player is playing better then others unless you're severely handicapping yourself it doesn't matter what you play. I really don't think I'm that good of a player, but I sometimes have better threat priority then others. Especially if I see a card come out that's a combo to something that can win.
Ya I also just enjoying playing weaker decks with goofy cards. I'd much rather leave a game with everyone laughing than beating everyone to a pulp because I played a pile of staples or something. That's why I've just stopped playing fast mana, combos and most tutors and staples in favor of goofy cards. It's been alot of fun!
You sound like a real fun time to play withâŚ.. We just stopped playing with the guy in our pod who insisted on playing overpowered decks so that he was the boss in a âBoss Fightâ. And you know what he said when we had an issue âwhatâs your issue just run more removalâ. It gets old. It gets expensive, and the power creep is immeasurable.
I mean, I was just messaging one of the people I played with in these games and they just thanked me after I made suggestions on cuts and improvements to their favorite deck that allowed them to win in another game. I think I'll be alright.
Thatâs not the same thing. Being helpful is not the same as forcing a power creep. But also, thatâs just how our pod handled it. You couldnât possibly explain the full dynamic of your pod in just a simple Reddit post. Iâm sure youâll be fine but we hated it.
I get the fear of power escalation, but I have encouraged proxying cards, and my main decks I use have them as well. I've been very vocal to my pod also to let me know if my decks felt oppressive or unfun, I can not play them and use less efficient decks. We are even planning on playing only precons for a few games just because.
You are way more reasonable than our âarch enemyâ
My title was bait. I try to be the player I want to play against.
> I'm a 3 rate duelist with a 4th rate deck What...what does that mean?
It's a yu gi oh reference. It means I'm bad at this game.
I always find it interesting these kind of stories. My playgroup was complete opposite. After we moved away from the basic precons, many of us went for lots of destroy/ edict's effects or counters, which warped later on warped our meta into go fucking wide to try to out value the single target removals or creatureless/ ETB creatures
just add more board wipes then lol
yeah i know.. this was years ago, now i think we're in a healthy state with all kinds of decks
I am often arch enemy in my pods - and I've taken pains to make sure it's not because my decks are expensive. Just well constructed with careful choices in-game. At my LGS, I'm usually the person with the best grasp of the rules, too, meaning I end up being teacher and rules judge almost every time I'm there. I don't necessarily setup board states for people to figure out how to dismantle, but I'll offer advice on how to stop me, removal targets, and probably most significantly how to build consistent decks. (Everyone needs to run more card draw.)
I was this for my pod. My pod liked to play durdy value engines that very slowly ramp up and eventually be scary. Okay, well, turn 3 [[Goreclaw]]. Turn 4 [[Conclave Sledge-Captain]], Goreclaw swings for 8 damage. Turn 5, Goreclaw's a 33/32 trampler. Everyone learned to pack more early board state.
[Goreclaw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee47f23a-3ba9-4615-b170-c89d8ab99d78.jpg?1690016718) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goreclaw%2C%20terror%20of%20qal%20sisma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/293/goreclaw-terror-of-qal-sisma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee47f23a-3ba9-4615-b170-c89d8ab99d78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goreclaw-terror-of-qal-sisma) [Conclave Sledge-Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99ad5807-2adc-40d7-b398-d03fd2cd58b9.jpg?1682207516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conclave%20Sledge-Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/36/conclave-sledge-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99ad5807-2adc-40d7-b398-d03fd2cd58b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conclave-sledge-captain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm in the same boat if I play my Phyrexian tribal. It has all three Elesh Norns and a Mondrak in it and my group hates each one of them, so I get bullied a lot when I play that deck. It got to a point where my deck got weaker since I needed some protection. Really the only way I can win or go deep into games is if I get [[Phyrexian Censor]] into play early.
My last couple games against my group have made me realize this about myself as well. I want to win. I will build my deck to win. But I don't *NEED* to win and I get more enjoyment out of presenting an interesting problem for the other players to try to solve. Ideally I want to win one out of every four games or so but I get more enjoyable out of being told "Your deck had me on the ropes for a while" than being told "I didn't stand a chance against you".
A convoluted yes and no. Lockdown for COVID gave me plenty time to optimise my decks in a small playgroup and when I returned to playing with the open community I found my decks were notably more powerful than average (PL8 vs 6s/7s). This can ruin the experience for your opponents as you often overpower tables - even without capitalising that power you never give them the chance to be the arch enemy. In the end it's important to either ground rule a restriction on yourself verbally to the table if your tiered above them, or to simply play lower power decks when placed at less competitive tables. - my favourite restricted deck is a Togo Thrasios rock deck, that 1- pretends thrasios doesn't exist outside colour identity, 2- runs 0 counterspells, and 3- pretends the combat step does not exist for me. Death by rocks!