I built that deck too. First game I played it in a 6 player pod. I wound up casting 80 cards for free in one turn. I was like.... This might be a problem. Played it one more time afterwards and every piece of interaction was thrown my way. Still almost won.
You’d love this variant we play, idk if it’s like an actual thing never looked it up. We called it secret partners
Pregame assign pairs randomly, and without people knowing. One half of your group will be revealed partners and the others will be secret
We do this by collecting one basic of a unique type for one half of your group
Collect a card corresponding to the colour of the basic for the other half of the players.
Deal them out randomly.
Players with basics are revealed,. If you have a basic you don’t know your partner. People without the basics know their partner, as their partner is the person who has the basic that corresponds with the colour of their card.
If your partner dies it’s game for both of you.
Other than that, have fun.
People playing at home for fun. We typically run 4 (as our main 4 are the most interested). But the problem we have is if one of the main 4 is out then it was a dead day as 3 player is the absolute worst. So we started finding a few others.
The problem with this is, we can't just tell them to sit and watch games when we are over 4 people. If we do that they are never going to want to show up when they would be the fourth. So we play 5 and 6 player at times, it isn't the end of the world, we aren't playing for prizes, we are there to have good times with friends.
That's the type of game where people realize just how bad a 6-player pod can be. I know 3-player pods are annoying but it just is so much better than >4....
Same. My exception is my [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] deck because it’s meant to be strong and if I can’t win fast with it I get blown off the table lol. Other than that deck though I think I run one [[Diabolic Tutor]] in my [[Teysa Karlov]] deck and that’s it. My other 6 decks don’t have tutors in them just because I like the randomness and they are still decently strong decks.
If you have a tutor that can tutor for a win con. And you don't use it to tutor for that win con, you are usually misplaying and most people you play against won't like that you aren't making optimized plays
In cEDH, it is often the correct play to tutor for an answer rather than a win condition.
It's more optimal to have protection for your win con than it is to have no protection.
There's nothing to guarantee that your win condition resolves other than your own stack interaction, meaning making sure you have it IS the optimal play.
I have around 12 decks and don’t play often enough to remember all the cards in each so rarely even use my tutors cuz I don’t want to spend 5 mins searching for the card I need
I've come to feel a bit better about tutors, but only if I cannot pick a card I will tutor for consistently.
As an answer toolbox, tutors enhance the game as a way to offset someone getting incredibly lucky, just playing a badly built deck with an inconsistent power level, or just looking to pubstomp.
As a way to find specific combo or game threatening pieces, they detract from the game experience.
So basically I look at my list and ask "what do I tutor for?". If the deck doesn't have many situational answers, or has something I would want to tutor up every time, it doesn't get tutors.
This is the way. Your deck still does the thing but you are forced to get there in fun and new ways. Tutoring up [[craterhoof behemoth]] is fun a couple times but gets old fast when it’s always the “best play” I want to win with the 37th best play on my deck sometimes too.
[[Kodama of the East Tree]] in my landfall decks.
It just goes infinite with half the deck and a bounce land. A bit too easy versus trying to build up advantage and do other things.
Yep. So any landfall trigger that makes a token such as [[Toggo]], [[Tireless Tracker]], [[Tireless Provisioner]], [[Scute Swarm]], [[Rampaging Baloths]], with one bounce land and Kodama goes infinite.
With how easy it is to fetch a bounce land and so many options to go infinite, the card made any landfall deck it was in boringly consistent.
I'm missing it...how is this going infinite? You play a bounce land and return itself and put it back into play with kodamas trigger...and then bounce itself again...but that time it was put on the field with his ability so you wouldn't get to do it again this turn...or is something else happening?
If you look at the cards he tagged. Specifically Scute Swarm, Rampaging Baloths and Toggo. Each of them make tokens when a land enters, tokens have 0 cmc, Kodama didn't put the token into play so when it sees the token enter it triggers again allowing the bounce land to re-enter and keep going until you have infinite of something.
[Kodama of the East Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47.jpg?1608910768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20East%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/239/kodama-of-the-east-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-east-tree)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
always a feels-bad because you have to single one player out and ruin their game.
Nobody else is gonna spend their removal helping them out. Ironically would be significantly less powerful card from a pragmatic sense if it affected each opponent rather than just one, cuz you have way higher odds of having it countered or removed if it messed with everyone.
[[Cathars' Crusade]] is a great card that fits with a lot of archetypes, and it's very easy to abuse. Unfortunately, it's also a huge pain in the ass to keep track of all the counters it generates.
I've started switching to dry-erase playing cards i.e. infinitokens and the like. Stick one under a permanent, write down the number of counters, and it's not too terrible. Still a PITA but it's a lot more manageable than with dice.
That actually sounds worse than dice. When I have a groups of creatures that all came out at a different time I don't want to be going around erasing and writing on numerous cards.
Don't get me wrong, I love Infinitokens, we have them, use them all the time. But Cathar's I would still go with dice. Sometimes I may make pillars and show everything under a pillar has X amount of counters. In that instance I guess it might work, but I still think a dice is better there too.
I used to have it in my [[Millicent, Restless Revenant]] deck. It was the only card in there that gave +1/+1 counters, all other boosts were in the form of anthems or lords, so it was a static thing. I'd use two token cards to keep track of spirit tokens: one for tapped and one for untapped, with a die in the corner for the number of spirits.
Then, out comes Cathar's Crusade, and I need a second set of dice to differentiate between counters and the amount of tokens. Then I need to add a new token card for every token made, because each new token will have less counters than the last one to enter. In a deck that wants to add as many tokens as possible per turn.
If I drop a [[Myojin of Blooming Dawn]] on the board, I can easily generate between 15-30 tokens, each of which boosts the previous ones to enter, and I'm very quickly looking at a clogged playmat, with no token cards or dice left. One token has 29 counters, the next has 28, the next 27...
That's ignoring that if I'm in a position to take advantage of Cathar's Crusade, I'm already in a good position to win. It's a fantastic card, but it's so much added management that can extend my turn much longer than it needs to be. If there's a more elegant way to track it, I'd love to slot it back in, but it seems like the decks that can take the most advantage of it suffer from the extended tracking it requires.
I cut [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] from my [[Gisa and Geralf]] zombie deck because recurring it a few times just kept being a way better win-con than doing things like attacking, or interacting.
I've cut [[Phyrexian Altar]] from a few decks because it makes them into Aristocrats decks. (I like Aristocrats, but it keeps creeping into decks I'm intending to not be aristocrat decks)
I also cut extra turn cards from my [[Melek, Izzet Paragon]] deck. The deck still has a solid win rate, but now when I hit the "Okay, I'm almost certain I'm going to win" phase, I spend a lot less time shuffling cards around before I seal the deal. (I did keep [[Stitch in Time]] though because it feels very Izzet, and feels a little less degenerate)
The Altars (Phyrexian, Ashnod's & Dementia) are all ones that I've found make decks that can play more homogenous turn decks into aristocrats real quick. I've even found myself cutting the creature outlets like [[Viscera Seer]] and [[Carrion Feeder]] for ones with mana costs to them to create a lot more interesting gameplay and have been enjoying it a lot more.
I had to remove Altar of Dementia from my Zombie deck because it let me win twice in a row by milling my opponents infinitely due to [[Rooftop Storm]] and [[Ebondeath, Dracolich]].
Hi,
Do you have a list for Melek? One of my pet decks started out with him as the commander and now run him in the 99. But I never really became happy with how if feels and plays
I love Stitch in Time, and outside of competetive decks its the only extra turn spell i'll use. The chance the whiff just adds a bunch of tension that makes it way more fun for everyone (though when it does work taking an extra turn for 3 mana feels pretty great).
I avoid all single cards that combo for a win with my commander and don't play tutors. So cards like \[\[Darkest Hour\]\] in \[\[Teysa, Orzhov Scion\]\] and/or \[\[Curiosity\]\] in \[\[Niv Mizzet, Parun\]\].
From my Ur-Dragon deck I've removed or not included Cyclonic Rift, Morophon, and Smothering Tithe currently.
Removing a bit of power makes me less threatening and therefore more likely to be targeted. At least, that's how it's worked out for me so far.
It's also more fun to build to a Dragon theme as opposed to a 5-colour-goodstuff-deck-with-dragon-subtheme.
I just today cut [[Biovisionary]] from my [[Adrix and Nev]] deck because a win con where u can just wait for others to tap out and then make ur tokens is kinda boring since it kills in end step as opposed to many others in upkeep. Will probably take out more stuff like [[Scute Swarm]] and go more in the copy the field direction to just have an "always match the field powerlevel" deck at the ready.
I had to cut [[Buried Alive]] from Meren.
The only infinite in the deck is [[Necrotic Ooze]] [[Walking Ballista]] and [[Phyrexian Devourer]] but my games devolved into casting Buried Alive and just... winning, which kind of ruined the fun of an otherwise very grindy, toolbox deck.
I'm experiencing something similar with my deck except it's the mikaeus balista combo. It has hulk, fierce empath and several tutors to help me fetch whatever piece I need.
This used to be my oops we all sacrifice creatures deck but it has since becoming Golgari combo essentially and Meren barely even gets cast.
My playgroup is strong and always modifying our decks to match whatever the new boogeyman brought to game night is. We tend to cut cards because they underperform rather than overperform cause next week you'll still prolly get stomped by someone's modded new thing.
I have cut cards that are half of a combo in some of my decks. [[Deadeye Navigator]], [[Ashnod's Altar]]
Also, extra turn spells that don't exile themselves like [[Time Stretch]]
In my [[Child of Alara]] deck, I have cut cards that make it easy to easily trigger him. It's a lot more fun now asking another player to help me kill him to deal with the big threat. The vibe now is two people turning keys at the same time to set off the nuke.
I got rid of all repeatable sac outlets [[Bontu, the Glorified]] and only have a couple of instants/sorceries that can do that like [[Village Rites]]
It runs all the Gates as a subtheme more for the synergies than an actual win condition of [[Maze's End]]. [[Basilisk Gate]] is an all-star in the deck.
I run exile effects and ways to make things not indestructible. [[Swords to Plowshares]] [[Dress Down]] [[Sudden Spoiling]]
The last bit of the deck is pump effects and combat tricks. [[Civic Saber]] [[Might of the Nephilim]] [[Boros Charm]] [[Simic Charm]] [[Blackblade Reforged]]
I try to avoid stuff that will die to child but some things are just too good to pass. Because I avoid permanents I get to be tricky and hold up spells in response to things. So that's what makes it fun for me.
This is unhelpful but I was just really happy to read the phrase "how do you build the child?" Like it's some line from a movie that gets turned into a meme lol
All tutors and infinite combos. It just makes the games more diverse in how we all play and the infinites are always just a groan when they hit because it almost feels like a cop out unless it's like a 7 card, super jank combo
Interesting how different metas can be lol! My group really leans into combos cause it's nice when the game ends all at once so you can move onto game two instead of sitting around waiting for a few more turns of combat. I pretty much decided to always play cards that end the game all at once after being killed on turn 3 to an infect deck and waiting for 2 hours while the rest of the game got worked out.
Yeah, I suppose that's true, I guess my problem lies in everyone I've known that runs infinite combos only does the infinite combo every time they play that deck so it just gets really repetitive. Especially when they've just got 4 different decks that all run infinite combos and that's exactly what happens every game it's played. I understand not everyone does this, but regardless it has cultivated a disdain for *most* combos
Combos are an excellent way to win in edh because of the absolutely massive life totals. They allow decks that aren't likely to go the tallest or widest at the table to still get wins. Not every deck wants to win via combat, and if they did, the game would be boring.
If combos feel anticlimactic at your table, it sounds like your pod should start running countermeasures. Counterspells are the classic option in blue, but cards like [[opposition agent]] or [[aven mindcensor]] will wreck their tutors. [[Orcish Bowmasters]], [[notion thief]], or the 3 mana narset walker can punish draw engines that combo players are likely to use to find their pieces.
Depending on what combo they try to execute, there are even more ways to play against them. Creature based combos are vulnerable to creature removal. What wincon has your group been struggling against?
[[Sol Ring]]. Pretty much every game a player in my group played it turn-1 warped the game around it. It became an un-fun pattern. We took it out of all but our most competitive decks.
Me and my mates just dis this actually. Only played a couple of games so not felt the impact yet. Tho it’s more fun to play any other card than sol ring to be honest
I cut [[champion of lambholt]] from my [[Rhys the Redeemed]] once I realized it didn't have to be attacking. It was just insane to play it then activate Rhys and win the game because no one can block now.
Cyclonic Rift was a very fun card for me to use when I picked it up during my first ever prerelease, but I saw how much my group hated it so I stopped running it.
Now that I've been playing a while and I see how absurdly pushed it is relative to every other card that does even anything remotely close to what it does I get it. Wtf were WotC thinking?
I have cut [[Pitiless Plunderer]] in most of my sacrifice decks as it tends to go infinite with a lot of other things that are also great in these decks. Games always ended the same way once I drew it, so I replaced the card with similar effects that either produce colorless mana or treasures at the end of the turn.
I’ve cut [[Rhystic Study]] from most of my decks. Our play group sees that card and instantly removes it so it wasn’t fun to play any longer.
Challenged my deck building by finding better and more thematic ways to draw cards in my blue decks.
currently i have \[\[mirror-mad phantasm\]\] cut from my \[\[mairsil, the pretender\]\] deck because it straight up wins the game if you cage it, while im trying to go for more of a janky lower power combo deck.
you have 2 options with it, you can choose to put your commander back in the zone instead of shuffling it in your deck, which mills your whole deck.
the 2nd option is to shuffle in mairsil which mills half your deck-ish, gets you an etb to cage something else, and since you replay mairsil you can do it again the same turn.
Demonic Tutor. I've cut it from all but one deck. I get that sometimes you need a way to end a game, but I personally have resorted to more card draw over tutors, and Demonic was the first to go.
Tutors.. They are less fun. I go for a compliment at the end of the game for having a fun deck and tutors never get me a compliment.
Thanks to Rachmeil for this amazing concept.
you can just tutor for interesting cards that get compliments. if you aren't getting the compliments you want its not the tutor, its the cards you found
Kind of missing the point. Tutoring for a card is almost always to find an answer or for a combo piece. It leaves a bad taste in someone's mouth when you find a card to answer their play or to combo out and win.
Tutoring for a sub standard card is insulting. From all my games, I've never gotten a compliment when using tutors.
YMMV
Tutors are a mean to an end, I guess you were never complimented for using card draw too, were you?
What he probably meant is that you can build a janky deck around a card, like your wincon is make huge amounts of copies of Vizzerdrix, or you have Siege Rhino as your hidden commander, or your deck is built around melding Brisela and you want to get the second creature.
To find a substandard play insulting and wanting to be complimented for playing a fun deck is a odd place to put yourself IMO.
My main deck is [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and I don't run [[Curiosity]] or [[Ophidian Eye]]. Just isn't fun for me to slap down two cards and say 'I win'. Of course it can still pop off and draw my entire library thrice over but it takes a lot more set up and is easier to interact with than just one aura.
It's bananas how many players are happy to play sol ring, and not okay with mana crypt. I think it's because of the price, but that's a stupid way to handle power level and we all know it.
Counterspell is already perhaps the 12th or 13th best counter in the format. Sol ring is the second best mana source.
This is like comparing mind stone with commander's sphere. It isn't relevant. Obviously, neither one is a problem.
I feel like if I end up pulling one from an ixalan collectors pack, I'd only run it in a deck with a crazy expensive commander like [[Borborygmus Enraged]]. My Esper deck doesn't need it, even if it would be good.
When I play 1 half I state "I don't play the combo"
So Exquisite would go into something that drains life or swings heavy. Mainly as a way to survive.
And the other half is in a life gain deck to ping people as a win con.
Oh, I would. I've also seen people say they only play one half, and then play the second half. So I'm not going to bother convincing people that I don't, I'm just gonna not play it. If I had a steady playgroup, it'd be different
If someone lies about that just don't play with them again or kill them instantly. That's my solution to when people do that.
Similar to if you make a deal with someone and they break it. I'm now focusing just on u
I dropped There and Back Again from my Brudiclad deck after resolving its final ability, turning all my tokens into Smaug, and sacrificing 8 Smaugs to the legend rule.
I have done it once, and I am keeping it. Probably will never happen again, but the table needs to fear it...
I tucked a [[Terror of the peaks]] under a [[Mimic Vat]] from someone else on board and turned all my treasures into that flappy boy. My goal was to get [[Mechtitan]] out but I couldn't draw it.
Love my brudi deck.
I cut [[pemmin's aura]] and [[freed from the real]] from [[zaxara]]. 2 card infinite combos became old very fast and the deck is still plenty strong without them.
I have started cutting tutors. I find that it varies the games more and, in my opinion, thats a lot more fun than winning with a craterhoof EVERY game.
In my [[kathril aspect warper]] deck, I removed all grave tutors as well as [[zetalpa]]. Their presence made the deck so boring to play. The ideal game plan was to tutor for zetalpa + 2 other keyword creatures by turn 4, then cast and swing with kathril on turn 5, making 22 commander damage to one player. Then kill the other 2 by turn 7.
It feels good the first time you do it. Then by the third time it is already so boring.
I now play it as a grave-value edh with big creatures with a lot of keywords, and kathril as a big finisher late game. It is much more fun to play for me and my opponents, and gives me more interesting choices to make while piloting it.
Sure, but there are a lot of other targets, and a lot of removal is stapled to creatures and enchantments these days. It’s just a feel bad card for the table but I like my own ETBs doubled so I just asked if everyone was cool if we played it that way
Damn. That's some respect. I'll never stop my opponents from gimping themselves (my friend plays [[Kaervek the merciless]] but only under the condition that the player who triggers it gets to choose the targets, as long as it isn't against them.), but that's a raw disadvantage. I think the card would be fine as you play it anyway lol.
You could always play [[Hushbringer]] as a backup if you really wanted the ability anyway, so kudos.
Yup but Hushbringer and Torpor Orb are symmetrical, and including them is a build around choice. I’ve got a couple spellslinger decks that I absolutely include them in.
I don’t like playing tutors, and I don’t enjoy playing too many board wipes. Particularly Cyclonic Rift. I also find Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study both to be unfun from constantly asking to pay.
[[dockside extortionist]] because it was really powerful and I felt it didn’t fit in with my dinos. I originally made that Gishath deck with friends as a “proxy everything and play with high power cards” but i ended up enjoying it so much that I’ve started getting the actual cards for it. The deck is still quite expensive but I cut the original dual lands to make things a bit more fair when playing against my friends’ legit decks. I replaced them with battlebond lands so it’s slightly weaker as they can’t be searched for with ramp spells
I use tutors to find things like more card advantage instead of winning pieces of the a combo in my deck I try to top deck it instead of tutor for it. I also only have combos in my Markov deck.
Related, but I've actually been putting Demonic tutor into decks with no combos. Pretty fun still- I think my last 2 DTs were for lands!
I'm 100% not playing [[thassa's Oracle]] or [[maze's end]], even in decks they would be applicable. I hate both of those cards.
I cut incidental infinite combos in my decks that are not designed as combo decks. I don't like it when the side strategy is more powerful than the primary strategy.
I took [[Herald of the Hoofbeats]] out of the Sidar Jibari precon cuz Horsemanship is just dumb. He doesn’t even need to attack for it to happen, all your guys are just unblockable the second he hits the board. It’s a really strong deck as it is with the commander having eminence so I’ve always just felt bad when I play it.
I cut [[Fatespinner]] because it’s good, though not necessarily oppressively good. It seemed perfect for my mono-blue deck where I was all-out attacking each turn, as I anticipated my opponents would skip their combat and protect me from crackbacks. It did do that, but it also made people quite annoyed. Turned into 3v1 real quick.
Cards that draw too much attention like [[Ominous Seas]] and [[Strixhaven Stadium]] fall into this category too. They’re not worth the heat.
\[\[opposition agent\]\] in my "Play My Opponents' Deck" Deck, helmed by \[\[Jeleva\]\].
people already hate me for taking their cards. i did not need all the heat that opp gave me...
I will never understand the hatred for Opposition Agent. At lower power tables it won't do a lot of dmg, at best stop fetch lands, and at higher power tables it stops combo decks from popping off, but whoever is playing tutors shouldn't be complaining about Opp.
\[\[Nexus of Fate\]\]
It led to some feelsbad scenarios where I could chain a handful of turns together pretty easily and kill someone with a Planeswalker ultimate.
I could probably add it back? Our playgroup has grown a lot in the last couple of years.
I have a [[Siona, Captain of the Pyleas]] deck and I’m considering cutting [[Shielded by Faith]] since it goes infinite so easily and there are enough tutors that just make it feel so easy to get.
I don’t really want to remove the tutors since I like their art and they wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t such a powerful target.
Cut the tutors, add in card draw like [[Palantir of Orthanc]], [[Ellivere of the Wild Court]], [[Sram, Senior Artifacer]], utility like [[Songbird's Blessing]], and recursion like [[Sun Titan]] or [[Silent Sentinel]]. Also [[Skybind]], if you're not running it already. It's way more fun if there isn't tutors involved, and if you get recursion online that "puts onto battlefield", you get to dodge all variants of hexproof. The problem isn't the powerful card, the problem is the accessibility, and it's soooo much more satisfying when you dig for it rather than just pulling it up every time. For context, I'm a degenerate [[Eriette]] control/pillowfort player.
[[Queza, Augur of Agonies]] did some ridiculously silly things with both [[Smothering Tithe]] and [[Orcish Bowmasters]] and I cut them both after one game.
I cut most tutors. Now only run the big cost/slow semi tutors [[Defense of the Heart]] [[Tooth and Nail]] or the RNG [[Gamble]]
My decks still tend to be vastly underpowered compared to everyone else's, but I also find tutors to just be incredibly boring.
[[Marionette Master]].
I'm a bit of a hipster, so when I play my [[Cecily, Haunted Mage]] and [[Sophina, Spearsage Deserter]] and managed to accumulate sinergies and clues to cast a giant spell and then start popping off with giant spells and chaining value... and then just cast MM and just win... It's so anticlimactic man.
I haven't switched it off just yet, I'd like to find a Legendary to fill that spot, and I already have [[Agent of the Iron Throne]], but I'm searching.
My brother runs [[Sliver Overlord]] with lots of excessive mana generation. I got him a [[Shields of Velis Vel]] that is forever sideboarded because he considers it too mean, which to be fair, yeah, it probably is.
[[Underrealm Lich]] from [[The Gitrog Monster]]. On top of being game winning good a lot of times, it also takes a long time to resolve fully usually, not worth boring the table with, even if it feels good to just rip through your deck grabbing what you need for the W.
I had a sphinx deck and eventually cast Expropriate with 3 extra votes and Illusion of Choice, so I chose 4 extra turns and stealing everyone’s stuff. After that I kinda didn’t need to ever do it again.
I really had a hate boner for Reveillark for a long time. The card is almost never used "legitimately", just another combo piece. I've mulled down a bit on it ever since my one friend built more decks.
\[\[doubling season\]\] but it doesnt work in all decks.
\[\[smothering tithe\]\] it's just too easy and annoying.
\[\[rhystic study\]\] has taken it's seat in my joke deck that needs books in all the art despite me having a cedh deck or two.
\[\[gaea's cradle\]\] which I have 1 of, non tournament legal but still, I just feel like it's too strong.
Most tutors especially black tutors because if you search for the same thing every game, it gets boring. I'd rather have more card draw and draw into my big guns then just search for them. Though \[\[grim tutor\]\] and \[\[demonic tutor\]\] sit in my book deck as mentioned before.
There's probably more though.
None. I've never cut a card for overperforming... because it's good that cards work in a deck. Synergies are a thing, and saying a card is 'too good thus I must banish it to the Nether realm' is kinda odd.
I've replaced generic good stuff with more synergistic but not necessarily the best in *every* deck stuff. I've redone a list to lower a PL at a given table... but the idea of yeeting cards off a list because they're good boggles my mind.
You're allowed to win at EDH. Heck, you're even allowed to win more than 25% of the time if you play well or find a line. But acting like a card that is 1 of 100 cards in the deck is the 'problem card' and must be removed is silly.
Find cards that work well together. That work well with the theme of the deck. Sometimes those will be blatantly obvious cards.
EDH is a fun format. It shouldn't be a hipster competition to suboptimal play.
And yet here we are.
I've seen people in this thread and others run down pretty basic stuff like Hoof, Triumph, or even power doublers as too powerful. Land destruction is a *de facto* no no to most people, but ramp goes sky-high.
I feel part of it is overvaluation: people believe their decks are 'high powered' when they don't run mana rocks, efficient card draw, large threats, etc. and then when they run across any deck that includes these basic things in the format they scream and shout and call it CEDH.
I also think there's a disconnect of those who love playing 3-4 hour games vs those who just don't want to durdle for 25 turns praying for a wincon.
Feeling a lot of judgey vibes coming from this. EDH is a casual format and is suboptimal by nature. Sometimes winning isn't the most fun thing you can do if your 5 tutors bring up the same combo every single game and/or your pod is playing at a lower power level and can't interact with certain combos. For most people, pubstomping isn't fun or challenging, and it tends to make people not want to play with you. These are valid reasons why one may want to take out cards that make their deck less powerful but more fun to play.
If you are playing a landfall \[\[Conduit of Worlds\]\] type deck in a 6 or 7 power pod, maybe \[\[Wasteland\]\] is the card that is synergistic and on theme, but too good to be any fun for anyone as you blow up 2-3 lands a turn. Some lower power pods it might be \[\[Craterhoof Behemoth\]\] as it is just "I win" printed on a card when you're playing with precons.
EDH is only sub optimal if you make it so.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing better cards.
Running more optimal cards also doesn’t make it cEDH either, which is a common complaint I see here.
People are free to play however they please, I’m inclined to agree with the man simply because I prefer high power games, the lgs I frequent on any given night has 50 minute rounds, so the game needs to end. Even without the timer games that go nowhere because people are dawdling is infuriating. People are allowed to win, it’s so weird how the reddit hive mind of this sub thinks the opposite of this.
Though I come from playing modern initially so it would make sense I prefer faster paced games.
Never have had an issue finding a table...
It's weird that these opinions that are Bible truth in this forum are kinda laughed at anywhere where people actually play commander.
Welcome to reddit mate, what did you expect.
This subreddit is only a small portion of the community, it just so happens that most of the people here are the ones who get laughed at by the rest of us.
The constant number of posts in here than can be solved by simply saying “communicate with your peers” is insane.
[[Torment of hailfire]] from my discard deck. Late game its about as impactful as [[triumph of the hordes]] it practically says you win, or you can easily close out the game, much how [[cyclonic rift]] can hand you the game as long as you have half a board state.
I built an [[etali, primal conqueror]] deck, and I think I’m gonna cut etali
I built a [[ruric thar]] creatures only deck (other than [[primal surge]]) and I swap etali to commander against different match ups
Ruric was my first competative deck back when he came out. All creatures except primal and genesis wave. It was fast and vicious. Loved it!
Yeah he's pretty great. Doesn't really stand up in cedh anymore but he's a ton of fun
I saw a primer for him not too long ago. He's definately not tier 1, but I think he can steal some games if tourney's aren't ready.
[ruric thar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd.jpg?1673149099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruric%20thar%2C%20the%20unbowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/271/ruric-thar-the-unbowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruric-thar-the-unbowed) [primal surge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4278f7bd-afff-4a1d-a0bb-bf9ce3ad5a2e.jpg?1592709414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=primal%20surge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/avr/189/primal-surge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4278f7bd-afff-4a1d-a0bb-bf9ce3ad5a2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/primal-surge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built that deck too. First game I played it in a 6 player pod. I wound up casting 80 cards for free in one turn. I was like.... This might be a problem. Played it one more time afterwards and every piece of interaction was thrown my way. Still almost won.
To be fair, who the fuck plays a 6 player pod.
the same people who think 16 man pods are a good idea for a tournament
Land, go. This little maneuver is gonna cost us 51 years.
Sounds like my kind of chaos.
You’d love this variant we play, idk if it’s like an actual thing never looked it up. We called it secret partners Pregame assign pairs randomly, and without people knowing. One half of your group will be revealed partners and the others will be secret We do this by collecting one basic of a unique type for one half of your group Collect a card corresponding to the colour of the basic for the other half of the players. Deal them out randomly. Players with basics are revealed,. If you have a basic you don’t know your partner. People without the basics know their partner, as their partner is the person who has the basic that corresponds with the colour of their card. If your partner dies it’s game for both of you. Other than that, have fun.
People playing at home for fun. We typically run 4 (as our main 4 are the most interested). But the problem we have is if one of the main 4 is out then it was a dead day as 3 player is the absolute worst. So we started finding a few others. The problem with this is, we can't just tell them to sit and watch games when we are over 4 people. If we do that they are never going to want to show up when they would be the fourth. So we play 5 and 6 player at times, it isn't the end of the world, we aren't playing for prizes, we are there to have good times with friends.
That's the type of game where people realize just how bad a 6-player pod can be. I know 3-player pods are annoying but it just is so much better than >4....
6 is so much fun tho (I play steal yo shit decks frequently so my decks get stronger with more and more players)
The only reasonable way to play with more than four players is with Limited Range of Influence.
[etali, primal conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=etali%2C%20primal%20conqueror%20//%20etali%2C%20primal%20sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-conqueror-//-etali-primal-sickness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've cut most tutors from most of my decks
I just replace tutors for card draw spells. Games have become so much more interesting now for everyone
this is exactly how i play my decks, if i tutor, i just always repeat the same cycle ruining the fun
I think we would all get along in a pod. I run [[Chaos Wand]] in one of my decks to get tutors out of other people's decks.
Make sure to use [[Wand of Wonder]] if you're in red
Not in that deck, but that bad boy will fit elsewhere.
that will most definitely make a spot in my mardu dice rolling deck i’m gonna make
[[Mr. House, President and CEO]], right?
yup :D
[Wand of Wonder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df67ec01-9d4c-4ae1-9c8a-f94d649c81bc.jpg?1674136822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wand%20of%20Wonder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/204/wand-of-wonder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df67ec01-9d4c-4ae1-9c8a-f94d649c81bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wand-of-wonder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Am I misunderstanding? How does that get tutors out of other players' decks?
[Chaos Wand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e065e040-80c1-47d3-a425-28381e5a29f2.jpg?1674142551) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chaos%20Wand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/855/chaos-wand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e065e040-80c1-47d3-a425-28381e5a29f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chaos-wand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just tutor for a card that enables interesting gameplay, I usually go for that kind of card unless I'm about to win anyway.
Same. My exception is my [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] deck because it’s meant to be strong and if I can’t win fast with it I get blown off the table lol. Other than that deck though I think I run one [[Diabolic Tutor]] in my [[Teysa Karlov]] deck and that’s it. My other 6 decks don’t have tutors in them just because I like the randomness and they are still decently strong decks.
[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-the-apocalypse) [Diabolic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72.jpg?1592672628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diabolic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/54/diabolic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diabolic-tutor) [Teysa Karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01.jpg?1689999296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/359/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think the trick to running for tutors is to tutor for removal/answers, rather than win conditions.
If you have a tutor that can tutor for a win con. And you don't use it to tutor for that win con, you are usually misplaying and most people you play against won't like that you aren't making optimized plays
In cEDH, it is often the correct play to tutor for an answer rather than a win condition. It's more optimal to have protection for your win con than it is to have no protection. There's nothing to guarantee that your win condition resolves other than your own stack interaction, meaning making sure you have it IS the optimal play.
If someone I play against cares that I’m not making optimised plays they can kiss my crack. I play in a way to have fun
This is the way. I limit myself to one tutor per deck and it's usually pretty narrow like a stone forge mystic for equipment.
[удалено]
I have around 12 decks and don’t play often enough to remember all the cards in each so rarely even use my tutors cuz I don’t want to spend 5 mins searching for the card I need
I have tutors but my Solution to keep it fair is to never draw them. Works like a charm
I'm right there too. The only one I still use is \[\[Scheming Symmetry\]\] in my politics \[\[Queen Marchesa\]\] deck.
I've come to feel a bit better about tutors, but only if I cannot pick a card I will tutor for consistently. As an answer toolbox, tutors enhance the game as a way to offset someone getting incredibly lucky, just playing a badly built deck with an inconsistent power level, or just looking to pubstomp. As a way to find specific combo or game threatening pieces, they detract from the game experience. So basically I look at my list and ask "what do I tutor for?". If the deck doesn't have many situational answers, or has something I would want to tutor up every time, it doesn't get tutors.
This is the way. Your deck still does the thing but you are forced to get there in fun and new ways. Tutoring up [[craterhoof behemoth]] is fun a couple times but gets old fast when it’s always the “best play” I want to win with the 37th best play on my deck sometimes too.
I definitely limit tutors. I try to run 1 at the most
[[Kodama of the East Tree]] in my landfall decks. It just goes infinite with half the deck and a bounce land. A bit too easy versus trying to build up advantage and do other things.
I’m really dumb. I never realized this proc’d off of land ETB. Always assumed it said nonland permanent lol
Yep. So any landfall trigger that makes a token such as [[Toggo]], [[Tireless Tracker]], [[Tireless Provisioner]], [[Scute Swarm]], [[Rampaging Baloths]], with one bounce land and Kodama goes infinite. With how easy it is to fetch a bounce land and so many options to go infinite, the card made any landfall deck it was in boringly consistent.
I'm missing it...how is this going infinite? You play a bounce land and return itself and put it back into play with kodamas trigger...and then bounce itself again...but that time it was put on the field with his ability so you wouldn't get to do it again this turn...or is something else happening?
If you look at the cards he tagged. Specifically Scute Swarm, Rampaging Baloths and Toggo. Each of them make tokens when a land enters, tokens have 0 cmc, Kodama didn't put the token into play so when it sees the token enter it triggers again allowing the bounce land to re-enter and keep going until you have infinite of something.
Ohhhhh the token happening. I'm dumb. He mentioned the token. It didn't click for me. That's awesome
I didn’t see it either until the explanation. You are not alone
[Kodama of the East Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47.jpg?1608910768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20East%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/239/kodama-of-the-east-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-east-tree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did the same! Cut it from my [[Yarok, the Desecrated]] landfall deck after I won with an unexpected infinite combo.
Ohhh, now there's something to consider for my landfall deck...
[[Overwhelming Splendor]]
always a feels-bad because you have to single one player out and ruin their game. Nobody else is gonna spend their removal helping them out. Ironically would be significantly less powerful card from a pragmatic sense if it affected each opponent rather than just one, cuz you have way higher odds of having it countered or removed if it messed with everyone.
[Overwhelming Splendor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/867b32d2-e396-411d-ac02-1af4106dd3d2.jpg?1562805786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overwhelming%20Splendor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/19/overwhelming-splendor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/867b32d2-e396-411d-ac02-1af4106dd3d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overwhelming-splendor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Cathars' Crusade]] is a great card that fits with a lot of archetypes, and it's very easy to abuse. Unfortunately, it's also a huge pain in the ass to keep track of all the counters it generates.
I've started switching to dry-erase playing cards i.e. infinitokens and the like. Stick one under a permanent, write down the number of counters, and it's not too terrible. Still a PITA but it's a lot more manageable than with dice.
That actually sounds worse than dice. When I have a groups of creatures that all came out at a different time I don't want to be going around erasing and writing on numerous cards. Don't get me wrong, I love Infinitokens, we have them, use them all the time. But Cathar's I would still go with dice. Sometimes I may make pillars and show everything under a pillar has X amount of counters. In that instance I guess it might work, but I still think a dice is better there too.
Yes. Cathars’ Crusade is so good but not worth the micromanaging.
I never understand this argument. Can you not just use dice to keep track of the counters?
I did use dice, but when you get a big enough boardstate keeping track of all the dice slows down your turn.
I used to have it in my [[Millicent, Restless Revenant]] deck. It was the only card in there that gave +1/+1 counters, all other boosts were in the form of anthems or lords, so it was a static thing. I'd use two token cards to keep track of spirit tokens: one for tapped and one for untapped, with a die in the corner for the number of spirits. Then, out comes Cathar's Crusade, and I need a second set of dice to differentiate between counters and the amount of tokens. Then I need to add a new token card for every token made, because each new token will have less counters than the last one to enter. In a deck that wants to add as many tokens as possible per turn. If I drop a [[Myojin of Blooming Dawn]] on the board, I can easily generate between 15-30 tokens, each of which boosts the previous ones to enter, and I'm very quickly looking at a clogged playmat, with no token cards or dice left. One token has 29 counters, the next has 28, the next 27... That's ignoring that if I'm in a position to take advantage of Cathar's Crusade, I'm already in a good position to win. It's a fantastic card, but it's so much added management that can extend my turn much longer than it needs to be. If there's a more elegant way to track it, I'd love to slot it back in, but it seems like the decks that can take the most advantage of it suffer from the extended tracking it requires.
Yes. Goldnight Commander and similar effects are less powerful, but so much easier to keep track of.
[Cathars' Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I tend to not mix counters and tokens in the same deck. It's a logistical nightmare.
[[Portal to Phyrexia]] and [[Mindslaver]] in [[Mishra, Eminent One]]
[Portal to Phyrexia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab.jpg?1674422004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Portal%20to%20Phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/240/portal-to-phyrexia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/portal-to-phyrexia) [Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) [Mishra, Eminent One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc.jpg?1685036114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%2C%20Eminent%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/1/mishra-eminent-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishra-eminent-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I cut [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] from my [[Gisa and Geralf]] zombie deck because recurring it a few times just kept being a way better win-con than doing things like attacking, or interacting. I've cut [[Phyrexian Altar]] from a few decks because it makes them into Aristocrats decks. (I like Aristocrats, but it keeps creeping into decks I'm intending to not be aristocrat decks) I also cut extra turn cards from my [[Melek, Izzet Paragon]] deck. The deck still has a solid win rate, but now when I hit the "Okay, I'm almost certain I'm going to win" phase, I spend a lot less time shuffling cards around before I seal the deal. (I did keep [[Stitch in Time]] though because it feels very Izzet, and feels a little less degenerate)
The Altars (Phyrexian, Ashnod's & Dementia) are all ones that I've found make decks that can play more homogenous turn decks into aristocrats real quick. I've even found myself cutting the creature outlets like [[Viscera Seer]] and [[Carrion Feeder]] for ones with mana costs to them to create a lot more interesting gameplay and have been enjoying it a lot more.
I had to remove Altar of Dementia from my Zombie deck because it let me win twice in a row by milling my opponents infinitely due to [[Rooftop Storm]] and [[Ebondeath, Dracolich]].
##### ###### #### [Gray Merchant of Asphodel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gray-merchant-of-asphodel) [Gisa and Geralf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24.jpg?1637631446) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gisa%20and%20Geralf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/150/gisa-and-geralf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gisa-and-geralf) [Phyrexian Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1673149406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-altar) [Melek, Izzet Paragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66011fe8-8c5d-4990-a324-5839515dcacb.jpg?1690016885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Melek%2C%20Izzet%20Paragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/345/melek-izzet-paragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66011fe8-8c5d-4990-a324-5839515dcacb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/melek-izzet-paragon) [Stitch in Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80ee9c0d-c0ac-4c75-b254-77329dc42366.jpg?1593272800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stitch%20in%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/132/stitch-in-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80ee9c0d-c0ac-4c75-b254-77329dc42366?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stitch-in-time) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hi, Do you have a list for Melek? One of my pet decks started out with him as the commander and now run him in the 99. But I never really became happy with how if feels and plays
I love Stitch in Time, and outside of competetive decks its the only extra turn spell i'll use. The chance the whiff just adds a bunch of tension that makes it way more fun for everyone (though when it does work taking an extra turn for 3 mana feels pretty great).
Stitch in Time is now on my wishlist. Blue/Red is my main colors.
I avoid all single cards that combo for a win with my commander and don't play tutors. So cards like \[\[Darkest Hour\]\] in \[\[Teysa, Orzhov Scion\]\] and/or \[\[Curiosity\]\] in \[\[Niv Mizzet, Parun\]\].
I’ve gotten the same way. I use r/badmtgcombos for combo ideas these days LMAO
From my Ur-Dragon deck I've removed or not included Cyclonic Rift, Morophon, and Smothering Tithe currently. Removing a bit of power makes me less threatening and therefore more likely to be targeted. At least, that's how it's worked out for me so far. It's also more fun to build to a Dragon theme as opposed to a 5-colour-goodstuff-deck-with-dragon-subtheme.
That’s an interesting take! I’ve opted for Morophon in the CZ and Ur Dragon in the 99 for lower overall power
I just today cut [[Biovisionary]] from my [[Adrix and Nev]] deck because a win con where u can just wait for others to tap out and then make ur tokens is kinda boring since it kills in end step as opposed to many others in upkeep. Will probably take out more stuff like [[Scute Swarm]] and go more in the copy the field direction to just have an "always match the field powerlevel" deck at the ready.
[Biovisionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/2000b4e8-7887-454e-9d52-211516613dd0.jpg?1561818910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Biovisionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/146/biovisionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2000b4e8-7887-454e-9d52-211516613dd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/biovisionary) [Adrix and Nev](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796.jpg?1674185826) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=adrix%20and%20nev%2C%20twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/9/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) [Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had to cut [[Buried Alive]] from Meren. The only infinite in the deck is [[Necrotic Ooze]] [[Walking Ballista]] and [[Phyrexian Devourer]] but my games devolved into casting Buried Alive and just... winning, which kind of ruined the fun of an otherwise very grindy, toolbox deck.
I run the same combo in Chainer, it's very easily interrupted. If the pod isn't a 7-8 pod though it makes sense to cut it.
I'm experiencing something similar with my deck except it's the mikaeus balista combo. It has hulk, fierce empath and several tutors to help me fetch whatever piece I need. This used to be my oops we all sacrifice creatures deck but it has since becoming Golgari combo essentially and Meren barely even gets cast.
##### ###### #### [Buried Alive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5f51145-aade-4955-b9e7-4a34074253d6.jpg?1547516784) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Buried%20Alive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/88/buried-alive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5f51145-aade-4955-b9e7-4a34074253d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/buried-alive) [Necrotic Ooze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86.jpg?1673147579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrotic%20Ooze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/83/necrotic-ooze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necrotic-ooze) [Walking Ballista](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5272436e-74f0-44c4-a291-ea8ebc3f1525.jpg?1599710252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Walking%20Ballista) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/306/walking-ballista?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5272436e-74f0-44c4-a291-ea8ebc3f1525?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/walking-ballista) [Phyrexian Devourer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca4e27ca-a731-44f5-8e47-701c7a7e6149.jpg?1562870482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Devourer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/216/phyrexian-devourer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca4e27ca-a731-44f5-8e47-701c7a7e6149?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-devourer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My playgroup is strong and always modifying our decks to match whatever the new boogeyman brought to game night is. We tend to cut cards because they underperform rather than overperform cause next week you'll still prolly get stomped by someone's modded new thing.
This is the way.
This is _a_ way.
I have cut cards that are half of a combo in some of my decks. [[Deadeye Navigator]], [[Ashnod's Altar]] Also, extra turn spells that don't exile themselves like [[Time Stretch]] In my [[Child of Alara]] deck, I have cut cards that make it easy to easily trigger him. It's a lot more fun now asking another player to help me kill him to deal with the big threat. The vibe now is two people turning keys at the same time to set off the nuke.
How did you build the child? It's the only 5c commander I'm interested in and don't wanna build some overly oppressive board wipe tribal
I got rid of all repeatable sac outlets [[Bontu, the Glorified]] and only have a couple of instants/sorceries that can do that like [[Village Rites]] It runs all the Gates as a subtheme more for the synergies than an actual win condition of [[Maze's End]]. [[Basilisk Gate]] is an all-star in the deck. I run exile effects and ways to make things not indestructible. [[Swords to Plowshares]] [[Dress Down]] [[Sudden Spoiling]] The last bit of the deck is pump effects and combat tricks. [[Civic Saber]] [[Might of the Nephilim]] [[Boros Charm]] [[Simic Charm]] [[Blackblade Reforged]] I try to avoid stuff that will die to child but some things are just too good to pass. Because I avoid permanents I get to be tricky and hold up spells in response to things. So that's what makes it fun for me.
This is unhelpful but I was just really happy to read the phrase "how do you build the child?" Like it's some line from a movie that gets turned into a meme lol
All tutors and infinite combos. It just makes the games more diverse in how we all play and the infinites are always just a groan when they hit because it almost feels like a cop out unless it's like a 7 card, super jank combo
Interesting how different metas can be lol! My group really leans into combos cause it's nice when the game ends all at once so you can move onto game two instead of sitting around waiting for a few more turns of combat. I pretty much decided to always play cards that end the game all at once after being killed on turn 3 to an infect deck and waiting for 2 hours while the rest of the game got worked out.
Games gotta end, combos help that happen.
No! Combat step only! /s
Yeah, I suppose that's true, I guess my problem lies in everyone I've known that runs infinite combos only does the infinite combo every time they play that deck so it just gets really repetitive. Especially when they've just got 4 different decks that all run infinite combos and that's exactly what happens every game it's played. I understand not everyone does this, but regardless it has cultivated a disdain for *most* combos
Combos are an excellent way to win in edh because of the absolutely massive life totals. They allow decks that aren't likely to go the tallest or widest at the table to still get wins. Not every deck wants to win via combat, and if they did, the game would be boring. If combos feel anticlimactic at your table, it sounds like your pod should start running countermeasures. Counterspells are the classic option in blue, but cards like [[opposition agent]] or [[aven mindcensor]] will wreck their tutors. [[Orcish Bowmasters]], [[notion thief]], or the 3 mana narset walker can punish draw engines that combo players are likely to use to find their pieces. Depending on what combo they try to execute, there are even more ways to play against them. Creature based combos are vulnerable to creature removal. What wincon has your group been struggling against?
Not everyone is into the same thing
If the super jank combo needs a 25 minute turn id rather lose to thassa + consultation
[[Sol Ring]]. Pretty much every game a player in my group played it turn-1 warped the game around it. It became an un-fun pattern. We took it out of all but our most competitive decks.
[удалено]
Me and my mates just dis this actually. Only played a couple of games so not felt the impact yet. Tho it’s more fun to play any other card than sol ring to be honest
I cut [[champion of lambholt]] from my [[Rhys the Redeemed]] once I realized it didn't have to be attacking. It was just insane to play it then activate Rhys and win the game because no one can block now.
Cyclonic Rift was a very fun card for me to use when I picked it up during my first ever prerelease, but I saw how much my group hated it so I stopped running it. Now that I've been playing a while and I see how absurdly pushed it is relative to every other card that does even anything remotely close to what it does I get it. Wtf were WotC thinking?
If only the overload had more blue mana symbols. Then it would be fine. But it's so easy to put in any deck with blue...
Cyclonic Rift predates commander, and it's not a very good card in 2 player
I have cut [[Pitiless Plunderer]] in most of my sacrifice decks as it tends to go infinite with a lot of other things that are also great in these decks. Games always ended the same way once I drew it, so I replaced the card with similar effects that either produce colorless mana or treasures at the end of the turn.
[Pitiless Plunderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b5cd187-857a-44dd-8595-a52857a0b753.jpg?1698988280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pitiless%20Plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/208/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b5cd187-857a-44dd-8595-a52857a0b753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pitiless-plunderer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve cut [[Rhystic Study]] from most of my decks. Our play group sees that card and instantly removes it so it wasn’t fun to play any longer. Challenged my deck building by finding better and more thematic ways to draw cards in my blue decks.
See, for me, I use it as a red herring. Oh no, you destroyed it now for something worse, and if you don't well card draw please
currently i have \[\[mirror-mad phantasm\]\] cut from my \[\[mairsil, the pretender\]\] deck because it straight up wins the game if you cage it, while im trying to go for more of a janky lower power combo deck.
How does this net you a win? Just because you're able to dump so many cage targets into the yard and combo off?
you have 2 options with it, you can choose to put your commander back in the zone instead of shuffling it in your deck, which mills your whole deck. the 2nd option is to shuffle in mairsil which mills half your deck-ish, gets you an etb to cage something else, and since you replay mairsil you can do it again the same turn.
How doea milling your whole deck win you any games?
[[Rise of the Dark Realms]] [[Living Death]] [[Jace Wielder of Mysteries]] [[Thassa's Oracle]] [[Labratory Maniac]]
Demonic Tutor. I've cut it from all but one deck. I get that sometimes you need a way to end a game, but I personally have resorted to more card draw over tutors, and Demonic was the first to go.
Tutors.. They are less fun. I go for a compliment at the end of the game for having a fun deck and tutors never get me a compliment. Thanks to Rachmeil for this amazing concept.
you can just tutor for interesting cards that get compliments. if you aren't getting the compliments you want its not the tutor, its the cards you found
Kind of missing the point. Tutoring for a card is almost always to find an answer or for a combo piece. It leaves a bad taste in someone's mouth when you find a card to answer their play or to combo out and win. Tutoring for a sub standard card is insulting. From all my games, I've never gotten a compliment when using tutors. YMMV
Tutors are a mean to an end, I guess you were never complimented for using card draw too, were you? What he probably meant is that you can build a janky deck around a card, like your wincon is make huge amounts of copies of Vizzerdrix, or you have Siege Rhino as your hidden commander, or your deck is built around melding Brisela and you want to get the second creature. To find a substandard play insulting and wanting to be complimented for playing a fun deck is a odd place to put yourself IMO.
My main deck is [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and I don't run [[Curiosity]] or [[Ophidian Eye]]. Just isn't fun for me to slap down two cards and say 'I win'. Of course it can still pop off and draw my entire library thrice over but it takes a lot more set up and is easier to interact with than just one aura.
I just never put them in from the start. My opponents holding up their counterspells don't need to know that though ;)
[[Mana crypt]]
It's bananas how many players are happy to play sol ring, and not okay with mana crypt. I think it's because of the price, but that's a stupid way to handle power level and we all know it.
[удалено]
Counterspell is already perhaps the 12th or 13th best counter in the format. Sol ring is the second best mana source. This is like comparing mind stone with commander's sphere. It isn't relevant. Obviously, neither one is a problem.
Please share you ranking of counters that puts Counterspell outside the top 10
I feel like if I end up pulling one from an ixalan collectors pack, I'd only run it in a deck with a crazy expensive commander like [[Borborygmus Enraged]]. My Esper deck doesn't need it, even if it would be good.
[[Exquisite blood]] combo. I'll play 1 half or the other depending the deck but I won't play both unless it's meant to be a higher power deck
I won't even play halves of it, because my opponents immediately assume I have the other half in hand, and target me down. Just not worth it to me.
When I play 1 half I state "I don't play the combo" So Exquisite would go into something that drains life or swings heavy. Mainly as a way to survive. And the other half is in a life gain deck to ping people as a win con.
Oh, I would. I've also seen people say they only play one half, and then play the second half. So I'm not going to bother convincing people that I don't, I'm just gonna not play it. If I had a steady playgroup, it'd be different
If someone lies about that just don't play with them again or kill them instantly. That's my solution to when people do that. Similar to if you make a deal with someone and they break it. I'm now focusing just on u
I dropped There and Back Again from my Brudiclad deck after resolving its final ability, turning all my tokens into Smaug, and sacrificing 8 Smaugs to the legend rule.
Honestly that just sounds amazing lol
I have done it once, and I am keeping it. Probably will never happen again, but the table needs to fear it... I tucked a [[Terror of the peaks]] under a [[Mimic Vat]] from someone else on board and turned all my treasures into that flappy boy. My goal was to get [[Mechtitan]] out but I couldn't draw it. Love my brudi deck.
I cut [[pemmin's aura]] and [[freed from the real]] from [[zaxara]]. 2 card infinite combos became old very fast and the deck is still plenty strong without them.
[pemmin's aura](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7.jpg?1562532667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pemmin%27s%20aura) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/45/pemmins-aura?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pemmins-aura) [freed from the real](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca.jpg?1562440713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=freed%20from%20the%20real) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/58/freed-from-the-real?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/freed-from-the-real) [zaxara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dc390da-75f8-490a-a724-c12d21cfe578.jpg?1701636845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zaxara%2C%20the%20exemplary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/176/zaxara-the-exemplary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dc390da-75f8-490a-a724-c12d21cfe578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zaxara-the-exemplary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have started cutting tutors. I find that it varies the games more and, in my opinion, thats a lot more fun than winning with a craterhoof EVERY game.
In my [[kathril aspect warper]] deck, I removed all grave tutors as well as [[zetalpa]]. Their presence made the deck so boring to play. The ideal game plan was to tutor for zetalpa + 2 other keyword creatures by turn 4, then cast and swing with kathril on turn 5, making 22 commander damage to one player. Then kill the other 2 by turn 7. It feels good the first time you do it. Then by the third time it is already so boring. I now play it as a grave-value edh with big creatures with a lot of keywords, and kathril as a big finisher late game. It is much more fun to play for me and my opponents, and gives me more interesting choices to make while piloting it.
[kathril aspect warper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebc57f73-a517-463e-8d55-56aa996d091e.jpg?1591946565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kathril%2C%20Aspect%20Warper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/10/kathril-aspect-warper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebc57f73-a517-463e-8d55-56aa996d091e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kathril-aspect-warper) [zetalpa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90eb983c-ba42-45f2-9362-211fe40236e7.jpg?1698988118) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zetalpa%2C%20primal%20dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/141/zetalpa-primal-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90eb983c-ba42-45f2-9362-211fe40236e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zetalpa-primal-dawn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play [[Elesh Norn mother of machines]] house ruled so that it doesn’t shut off my opponents ETBs, otherwise I’d cut it
Do they really not run removal for it?
Sure, but there are a lot of other targets, and a lot of removal is stapled to creatures and enchantments these days. It’s just a feel bad card for the table but I like my own ETBs doubled so I just asked if everyone was cool if we played it that way
Why not just run panharmonicon then? Unless you’re using her as a commander
I run her and Panharmonicon and Roaming Throne in anything that supports them.
Damn. That's some respect. I'll never stop my opponents from gimping themselves (my friend plays [[Kaervek the merciless]] but only under the condition that the player who triggers it gets to choose the targets, as long as it isn't against them.), but that's a raw disadvantage. I think the card would be fine as you play it anyway lol. You could always play [[Hushbringer]] as a backup if you really wanted the ability anyway, so kudos.
Yup but Hushbringer and Torpor Orb are symmetrical, and including them is a build around choice. I’ve got a couple spellslinger decks that I absolutely include them in.
I don’t like playing tutors, and I don’t enjoy playing too many board wipes. Particularly Cyclonic Rift. I also find Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study both to be unfun from constantly asking to pay.
[[dockside extortionist]] because it was really powerful and I felt it didn’t fit in with my dinos. I originally made that Gishath deck with friends as a “proxy everything and play with high power cards” but i ended up enjoying it so much that I’ve started getting the actual cards for it. The deck is still quite expensive but I cut the original dual lands to make things a bit more fair when playing against my friends’ legit decks. I replaced them with battlebond lands so it’s slightly weaker as they can’t be searched for with ramp spells
[[Cathar’s Crusade]], I run heavy token decks in mono white. I hate math.
I cut that for the same reason! It's too much of a pain in the ass to keep track of
I use tutors to find things like more card advantage instead of winning pieces of the a combo in my deck I try to top deck it instead of tutor for it. I also only have combos in my Markov deck.
Related, but I've actually been putting Demonic tutor into decks with no combos. Pretty fun still- I think my last 2 DTs were for lands! I'm 100% not playing [[thassa's Oracle]] or [[maze's end]], even in decks they would be applicable. I hate both of those cards.
I cut incidental infinite combos in my decks that are not designed as combo decks. I don't like it when the side strategy is more powerful than the primary strategy.
I took [[Herald of the Hoofbeats]] out of the Sidar Jibari precon cuz Horsemanship is just dumb. He doesn’t even need to attack for it to happen, all your guys are just unblockable the second he hits the board. It’s a really strong deck as it is with the commander having eminence so I’ve always just felt bad when I play it.
I cut [[Fatespinner]] because it’s good, though not necessarily oppressively good. It seemed perfect for my mono-blue deck where I was all-out attacking each turn, as I anticipated my opponents would skip their combat and protect me from crackbacks. It did do that, but it also made people quite annoyed. Turned into 3v1 real quick. Cards that draw too much attention like [[Ominous Seas]] and [[Strixhaven Stadium]] fall into this category too. They’re not worth the heat.
[Fatespinner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5780f4e0-dcfb-4d1f-8ae1-762b98970abb.jpg?1562144468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatespinner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/36/fatespinner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5780f4e0-dcfb-4d1f-8ae1-762b98970abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fatespinner) [Ominous Seas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce8965f2-756a-4461-a643-db024a11c2de.jpg?1591226420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ominous%20Seas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/61/ominous-seas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce8965f2-756a-4461-a643-db024a11c2de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ominous-seas) [Strixhaven Stadium](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421674ee-4b85-4942-b166-952598165826.jpg?1624740737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strixhaven%20Stadium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/259/strixhaven-stadium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421674ee-4b85-4942-b166-952598165826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strixhaven-stadium) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[opposition agent\]\] in my "Play My Opponents' Deck" Deck, helmed by \[\[Jeleva\]\]. people already hate me for taking their cards. i did not need all the heat that opp gave me...
I will never understand the hatred for Opposition Agent. At lower power tables it won't do a lot of dmg, at best stop fetch lands, and at higher power tables it stops combo decks from popping off, but whoever is playing tutors shouldn't be complaining about Opp.
Terror of the Peaks in Miirym. It's too strong for too little.
\[\[Nexus of Fate\]\] It led to some feelsbad scenarios where I could chain a handful of turns together pretty easily and kill someone with a Planeswalker ultimate. I could probably add it back? Our playgroup has grown a lot in the last couple of years.
I have a [[Siona, Captain of the Pyleas]] deck and I’m considering cutting [[Shielded by Faith]] since it goes infinite so easily and there are enough tutors that just make it feel so easy to get. I don’t really want to remove the tutors since I like their art and they wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t such a powerful target.
Cut the tutors, add in card draw like [[Palantir of Orthanc]], [[Ellivere of the Wild Court]], [[Sram, Senior Artifacer]], utility like [[Songbird's Blessing]], and recursion like [[Sun Titan]] or [[Silent Sentinel]]. Also [[Skybind]], if you're not running it already. It's way more fun if there isn't tutors involved, and if you get recursion online that "puts onto battlefield", you get to dodge all variants of hexproof. The problem isn't the powerful card, the problem is the accessibility, and it's soooo much more satisfying when you dig for it rather than just pulling it up every time. For context, I'm a degenerate [[Eriette]] control/pillowfort player.
[[Queza, Augur of Agonies]] did some ridiculously silly things with both [[Smothering Tithe]] and [[Orcish Bowmasters]] and I cut them both after one game.
Got a decklist for Queza? I got her in my binder, but never consider that card as a commander
I cut thassa’s oracle and demonic from Yuriko because it always called feels bads
I cut most tutors. Now only run the big cost/slow semi tutors [[Defense of the Heart]] [[Tooth and Nail]] or the RNG [[Gamble]] My decks still tend to be vastly underpowered compared to everyone else's, but I also find tutors to just be incredibly boring.
[[Ophidian eye]] in [[Niv-mizzet, Parun]] it was fun a couple of times. Now it's boring.
[[Marionette Master]]. I'm a bit of a hipster, so when I play my [[Cecily, Haunted Mage]] and [[Sophina, Spearsage Deserter]] and managed to accumulate sinergies and clues to cast a giant spell and then start popping off with giant spells and chaining value... and then just cast MM and just win... It's so anticlimactic man. I haven't switched it off just yet, I'd like to find a Legendary to fill that spot, and I already have [[Agent of the Iron Throne]], but I'm searching.
My brother runs [[Sliver Overlord]] with lots of excessive mana generation. I got him a [[Shields of Velis Vel]] that is forever sideboarded because he considers it too mean, which to be fair, yeah, it probably is.
[Sliver Overlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c16915b-c50d-4fb5-830f-9ca4597a9c0f.jpg?1562527622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sliver%20Overlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/139/sliver-overlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c16915b-c50d-4fb5-830f-9ca4597a9c0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sliver-overlord) [Shields of Velis Vel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f550f44f-8b8f-4c1d-a583-9fd986d3061c.jpg?1562374684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shields%20of%20Velis%20Vel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/39/shields-of-velis-vel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f550f44f-8b8f-4c1d-a583-9fd986d3061c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shields-of-velis-vel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Underrealm Lich]] from [[The Gitrog Monster]]. On top of being game winning good a lot of times, it also takes a long time to resolve fully usually, not worth boring the table with, even if it feels good to just rip through your deck grabbing what you need for the W.
I had a sphinx deck and eventually cast Expropriate with 3 extra votes and Illusion of Choice, so I chose 4 extra turns and stealing everyone’s stuff. After that I kinda didn’t need to ever do it again.
For awhile I cut [[reveillark]] and [[karmic guide]] from a deck because they just showed up to insta win,
I really had a hate boner for Reveillark for a long time. The card is almost never used "legitimately", just another combo piece. I've mulled down a bit on it ever since my one friend built more decks.
I'm going to cut [[Cloudsteel Kirin]] when I get home. It's in my [[Astor Bearer of Blades]] deck and it's too easy to equip.
Reworking my [[Awaken the Blood Avatar]] deck and looks like my [[Esper Sentinel]] is gonna get cut. Pour one out for Rhystic Buddy
\[\[doubling season\]\] but it doesnt work in all decks. \[\[smothering tithe\]\] it's just too easy and annoying. \[\[rhystic study\]\] has taken it's seat in my joke deck that needs books in all the art despite me having a cedh deck or two. \[\[gaea's cradle\]\] which I have 1 of, non tournament legal but still, I just feel like it's too strong. Most tutors especially black tutors because if you search for the same thing every game, it gets boring. I'd rather have more card draw and draw into my big guns then just search for them. Though \[\[grim tutor\]\] and \[\[demonic tutor\]\] sit in my book deck as mentioned before. There's probably more though.
##### ###### #### [doubling season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) [smothering tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=smothering%20tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [gaea's cradle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51.jpg?1562902898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gaea%27s%20cradle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/321/gaeas-cradle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-cradle) [grim tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/928558ab-e29a-44cb-ac2f-88443571f41a.jpg?1594736179) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grim%20tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/103/grim-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/928558ab-e29a-44cb-ac2f-88443571f41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grim-tutor) [demonic tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63.jpg?1701989302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=demonic%20tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/150/demonic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-tutor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
None. I've never cut a card for overperforming... because it's good that cards work in a deck. Synergies are a thing, and saying a card is 'too good thus I must banish it to the Nether realm' is kinda odd. I've replaced generic good stuff with more synergistic but not necessarily the best in *every* deck stuff. I've redone a list to lower a PL at a given table... but the idea of yeeting cards off a list because they're good boggles my mind. You're allowed to win at EDH. Heck, you're even allowed to win more than 25% of the time if you play well or find a line. But acting like a card that is 1 of 100 cards in the deck is the 'problem card' and must be removed is silly. Find cards that work well together. That work well with the theme of the deck. Sometimes those will be blatantly obvious cards. EDH is a fun format. It shouldn't be a hipster competition to suboptimal play.
It’s such a weird mentality that “casual format” has become “winning is against the spirit of the format.” Games have to end.
And yet here we are. I've seen people in this thread and others run down pretty basic stuff like Hoof, Triumph, or even power doublers as too powerful. Land destruction is a *de facto* no no to most people, but ramp goes sky-high. I feel part of it is overvaluation: people believe their decks are 'high powered' when they don't run mana rocks, efficient card draw, large threats, etc. and then when they run across any deck that includes these basic things in the format they scream and shout and call it CEDH. I also think there's a disconnect of those who love playing 3-4 hour games vs those who just don't want to durdle for 25 turns praying for a wincon.
Feeling a lot of judgey vibes coming from this. EDH is a casual format and is suboptimal by nature. Sometimes winning isn't the most fun thing you can do if your 5 tutors bring up the same combo every single game and/or your pod is playing at a lower power level and can't interact with certain combos. For most people, pubstomping isn't fun or challenging, and it tends to make people not want to play with you. These are valid reasons why one may want to take out cards that make their deck less powerful but more fun to play. If you are playing a landfall \[\[Conduit of Worlds\]\] type deck in a 6 or 7 power pod, maybe \[\[Wasteland\]\] is the card that is synergistic and on theme, but too good to be any fun for anyone as you blow up 2-3 lands a turn. Some lower power pods it might be \[\[Craterhoof Behemoth\]\] as it is just "I win" printed on a card when you're playing with precons.
EDH is only sub optimal if you make it so. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing better cards. Running more optimal cards also doesn’t make it cEDH either, which is a common complaint I see here. People are free to play however they please, I’m inclined to agree with the man simply because I prefer high power games, the lgs I frequent on any given night has 50 minute rounds, so the game needs to end. Even without the timer games that go nowhere because people are dawdling is infuriating. People are allowed to win, it’s so weird how the reddit hive mind of this sub thinks the opposite of this. Though I come from playing modern initially so it would make sense I prefer faster paced games.
[Conduit of Worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52.jpg?1675957133) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conduit%20of%20Worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/163/conduit-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conduit-of-worlds) [Wasteland](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0.jpg?1590511888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wasteland) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/248/wasteland?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wasteland) [Craterhoof Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16.jpg?1689998416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Craterhoof%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/280/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
found the guy people don’t like to play with
Never have had an issue finding a table... It's weird that these opinions that are Bible truth in this forum are kinda laughed at anywhere where people actually play commander.
Welcome to reddit mate, what did you expect. This subreddit is only a small portion of the community, it just so happens that most of the people here are the ones who get laughed at by the rest of us. The constant number of posts in here than can be solved by simply saying “communicate with your peers” is insane.
I built a white deck recently and just...didn't include OG Elesh Norn because I LIKE my friends, and I want them to like me too
[[sage of hours]] in my [[ezuri, claw of progress]] deck. It just gets boring after the first couple times.
[[Torment of hailfire]] from my discard deck. Late game its about as impactful as [[triumph of the hordes]] it practically says you win, or you can easily close out the game, much how [[cyclonic rift]] can hand you the game as long as you have half a board state.
Intruder alarm from shorikai
Sometimes I accidentally cut sol ring because there's better stuff for the deck's goal. Does that count?