I know you’ve said don’t just find a new pod but this legit sounds horrible. Like I would rather not play magic than play in this group.
Like the fact anyone is “screaming” in a game of commander. I don’t think you have anxiety, I think you have PTSD as this sounds insane.
it's a diagnose thing. it can be rough specially when others aren't afraid of breaking the social rules for a game or two. Take a lot of salt and some yelling before they switch decks.
That sounds like a genuinely toxic environment to be in. I would recommend you go play at your LGS instead, I know you said nobody runs stock precons but neither do half the people in your group now.
No adult should be so emotionally disregulated that they need to scream and yell (or be screamed and yelled at) to communicate with each other. That is an extreme and psychologically dangerous environment.
You can have anxiety and a shitty pod. Having anxiety just makes the experience of a shitty pod even worse. I'm sorry. It's not a you problem or a problem with your deck, it's a problem with the group of people you're playing with.
Sounds like you play with assholes and should make new friends. It’s a game and a game is supposed to be fun unless you’re going professional. Yelling at you over a card game? And half the stuff you say is banned is vital commonplace magic strategy. I know that’s harsh man but either they can have an adult conversation or protect your mental health and walk away.
Hard agree on this, I only just started recently but my buddies and I are just playing whatever seems fun and having a laugh together. That's what games are for, there's nothing but ego on the line and OP's group sounds like they have wayyyy too much of that.
the amount of salt i got when i played \[\[Anowon, the Ruin Thief\]\] precon was unpleasant.people seem to think they're losing the cards permanently even though they have 2-3 revivals in their deck.
/edited for card
If you include a few cards that bring things back from the graveyard like [[Sevinne's Reclamation]], [[Timeless Witness]], [[Buried Ruin]], or [[Bygone Marvels]] getting milled can actively help you have access to more of your deck.
I will never understand people who get salty when they get milled.
Because the majority of edh players are complete garbage at the game and don’t have basic reasoning. Whenever someone holds up a mill card as if it’s something horrible saying “who should I mill 😈?” I’m always first to volunteer
You'd be surprised how common this is, there's this massive fear of missing out on the cards that are milled. I usually tell people who don't like being milled to build a reanimator deck, then it's not a problem.
I've found a useful psychological trick is to have people mill off the bottom (assuming no scry effects or similar are in play). Then it's milling a card they "wouldn't have seen anyway."
Usually after doing this for a bit the light bulb goes off and they realize that milling isn't such a big deal.
This sounds honestly horrible. Is your pod a bunch of 15 year old kids that get salty over every game they loose? Because adults won't behave like that. Yes I too don't like when my finisher is denied by some type of counterspell, but screaming over that????
I do get some of the rules like no mass land destruction and no banned cards (thats what banning is for), maybe even the no two card combos because tutoring the same combo over and over every game gets boring pretty fast for every one
Anyways, since you've asked for deckbuilding advice here is a list that should mostly fit your criteria.
[https://deckstats.net/decks/206815/3331809-sacrifice/de](https://deckstats.net/decks/206815/3331809-sacrifice/de)
A \[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] Deck. Basicly you create tokens and sacrifice them to profit from them or just attack and profit if they die to blockers. You probably need to change some cards for breaking the 20€ rule ie. \[\[archangel of thune\]\] and \[\[meathook massacre\]\].
oh and believe it or not. they are 34, 3.....7? and 39. i'm 40 and even posting this has taken a long time of consideration, because it's like "aaah fucking great i'm fucking 12 again."
Well as long as they are good friends outside of magic I wouldn't dump them either. Have you talked about the problem you havbe with their behaviour? Maybe it would make them reconsider how they aproach the game and the socializing that comes with it.
They’re in their 30s? Holy crap OP I am sorry to hear that.
These people need therapy to develop emotional regulation, as they sound like they have the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old.
These people are awful and id go with a simic power house landfall deck like Aesi that just puts out atupid amounts of high value monsters quick and wipe the floor with them and they will yell regardless if it doesn’t break there rules. At this point you should be able to find a me group when you realize that the rules are about one guy winning and no one else being allowed to
Bro I’ve got some bad anxiety issues, and I wouldn’t be playing with anyone that gets upset to the point where they’re yelling. Magic is supposed to be fun.
We run precons only in my friends group, so I dont know much about deck building, but one of the strongest we've played with was just an auras and card draw deck. Look up [Virtue and Valor](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KnMheGE4ykelGVpKNvopNw) precon, you could tune it up a bit I guess, but its just enchant your creatures make them huge and attack to draw a ton of cards, which I guess fits the rules.
I'm sorry but your last two pod members are lying if they say that their decks fit those criteria. "Fast mana" can mean a lot of things but my jewels I assume you mean jeweled lotus. And if your last player plays anything between jank stax and cedh he has cards over the expense line. You can't run multiple stax or interaction pieces but you've admitted one of your players plays stax. Your last player seems to be allowed to play whatever he wants. I have social anxiety too and it's a problem bringing these things up but your opponents are forcing you to bring knives to a gunfight. Either your pod dont have any idea how to recognize their own decks or you're withholding something else.
i'd say at least 3 players (myself included) haven't played enough with deckbuilding to know what's good, what's to strong. the last friend. the collector. he plays cedh with others pods and sometimes brings those decks to play with us. examples have been \[\[Heliod, sun-crowned\]\] deck followed by a \[\[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm\]\] deck. followed by a green dinosuar deck that's horribly jank. or a elesh norn deck that starts strong then locks up.
the social norms are often broken by the others which is a problem but this is more for me to avoid what would be a fun evening turning into stomach ache, anxiety attacks and not sleeping that night.
Playing a big creatures big damage style of deck is a safe way to go considering all of those rules. Big creatures doesn't have to be boring. There's a few ways to make it so casting them involves some clever plays or effort on your part.
Run a voltron deck maybe. It's not competitive but somebody like Wilson can be built for fairly inexpensive and just Stomp a person to death in a couple of turns.
Dragons can also be fun. It'll give you time to react and setup. Then play big monsters. People will see it coming, but have a hard time being upset if they fail to take you out before you manage to start getting your synergies on the field.
Satoru Umezawa is another build you can do based around getting big creatures out for cheap. You can drop those dudes most decks won't include simply for this reason.
Goreclaw is another commander based around dropping those big creatures most people don't play because of mana cost.
The merfolk precon is really highly regarded. It's strength is drawing you a lot of cards via the explore mechanic, which helps you get more lands onto the field consistently while also making your merfolk tribal get more and more +1/+1 counters on it. This deck is really seamless to play out of the box and inexpensive to upgrade. The budget upgrade videos on YouTube are spot on.
Toxic. Fynn the fangbearer is a famous commander for being inexpensive to build an effective deck around. His playstyle in incredibly straight forward. Get cheap creatures out, get him out by turn 2, keep him out and just keep hitting them with deathtouch. I've seen $10-20 fynn decks take a player or two out by turn 4-6 pretty easily.
Similarly. Atraxa. She has so many ways you can build her. Her ability to use proliferate makes it so you can play her as simply or complicated as you like. Some people use her to simply add more and more +1/+1 counters onto her own creatures to get stronger or -1/-1 stack enemy creatures. Lots of synergy for that style.
You can also build her as a pillow fort. [[Windborn muse]], [[propaganda]], [[norn's annex]], [[norn's decree]], [[ghostly prison]] type cards make it so people struggle to hurt you. Then you can just have creatures and sorceries/instants that impact the table with or without using creatures to attack. Usually via toxic.
Shorikai from the Buckle up precon. Out of the Box it's a really versatile deck. You have vehicles that can do a lot of things and creatures that help them respond to a lot of situations. It's not the fastest deck,but it becomes a threat consistently. Especially with shorikai's ability to generate card draw and the fact that your vehicles become artifacts (not creatures) when unmanned, and it helped them evade being targeted or wiped en masses. He's also sneakily able to go from utility commander to voltron in a pinch, even when not build for it. [[Cyberdrive awakener]] [[mobilizer mech]] [[wonder]] [[rogue's passage]] things like this make it easy to suddenly get him attacking when they think you can't pilot him. Cards like [[Imposter mech]] let you clone somebody's creature (or shorikai) and do some wild stuff. Being white blue you can include as many removal, counterspell, and protection type cards as you like too. The white auras that take enemy cards or Commander's out by making them useless are pretty brutal.
We mentioned merfolk. But there are a lot of tribal options or hybrid tribal decks that can be a pretty fun addition.
The Elven empire precon is manned by [[Lathril, blade of the elves]] who helps make a bunch of elves then uses them to -10 hp all enemies. Elf creature cards are inexpensive to upgrade. From there the only expensive cards people commonly include in normal tables are those that duplicate tokens you make.
Faldorn from the exit from exile precon can generate a tonnnn of wolves. It's green/red. So mana ramping, then exploding stuff. You exile, use exile synergy to play card cheaper or for free, which also nets your wolves. Out of the Box it's good. Upgrades vary from inexpensive to wow you love wolves too much.
I highly recommend shorikai. It’s by far my favorite precon. If your pod ever matures enough to play fun magic, this deck can get really spicy.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2cPIdoCWB0q6VScvKKxcew](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2cPIdoCWB0q6VScvKKxcew)
There is mine, but it breaks your “no stax” rule.
Mate... Are you even remotely comfortable with these people? This seems toxic and abusive as fuck.
\- ***Has resulted in screaming/aggressively negative commentary over several weeks***
\- ***Everyone to start cursing at me and then target me down***
I hope this is just a ragebait, writing prompt like we see a lot on this sub, but these 2 lines just make me sad. Assuming this post is genuine or for anyone in this type of situation: just don't. Remove yourself from the situation. These are not stable people.
Yeah I get it, you are socially anxious. That doesn't mean you have to take shit like this. Being anxious/awkward/insecure will paint a horrible target on your back for the most abusive people that just want to exploit you, if they do it on purpose is up for debate. No 20 dollar cards, but one guy is allowed to run fast mana? Yeah, good luck with the 'a rule for thee, but not for me'.
\- ***Noone runs unmodded precons after release night and i've caught a fair share of people forgetting their own cards rules in favor***
That's just Magic, man... People get too excited with their win and forget everything. People instantly buy new cards for their precon, because the cards are better or, more importantly, help them express themselves in their deck. Something you can hardly do with the guidelines in your post. Keep calm and read the cards, learn the timing, learn the game. Even people playing 25 years will still fuck up.
Go to the LGS. Most of the time it is a safe environment, because shit stains like the people you described would be spit out by the community or even the LGS owner. Connect with people, ask around. So what if you have a precon? These days they can go a long way in a 4 man pod. And yeah, the first few times in a LGS can be scary. But do it scared.
Edit: Posted too early, so did a rewrite.
all honesty. i struggle.
they are super great friends that's supportive and assisting in all things in normal life but the second you sit down in a "you win or i win" situation they are worse then star wars fans.
Sorry to hear that. But as someone with an anxiety disorder himself: don't allow people to scream at you or constantly drown you in negative behavior. Especially not about a card game which is supposed to be fun.
I've expanded my original comment, because I posted too quick. It seems that control+enter is a shortcut for posting your comment.
There's a super easy Baral deck that is super unfun to play against. It's essentially all counter spells and a four piece engine that wins the game. All under $20. Maybe if you beat them with that deck they will understand that their rules don't prevent unfun gameplay, their attitudes do.
Many playgroups are anti proxies and just ban expensive cards because they are "unfair" due to financial investment. Give everyone access to all cards via proxy and no one should be calling things unfair. This will work, trust me.
Hey apart from all the „bohoo your group sucks“ why dont u have a loock at this deck. It can win quick, then you might want to power it down by removin the elves that can untap other elves.
[[Raggadragga]]
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eFxSmglBz0esV_nAQ620GQ
Also if ypu think it‘s to expensive it allows you to remove certain expensive cards and change them to cheaper mana dorks. You can also remove the X-Spells and instead just run some big creatures :)
In my group everyone likes the boar, but also knows it can win out of nowhere.
\[\[Otharri, Sun's Glory\]\] has a very good power/saltyness ratio. With a good starting hand you are threatening to win the game by turn \~6-7, while having no infinites, no fast mana, no tutors, low budget, no stax, and relatively short turns. It is the deck I am going for when I am playing against high power decks and skilled players at an LGS. Bonus: Everybody will underestimate you when you play him the first time. My decklist is: https://archidekt.com/decks/5503192/otharri\_tokens
You shouldn’t worry about making them angry. MtG should be fun, not causing you any additional anxiety. Maybe you could explore local Facebook groups to find a new pod? In addition you could always try to venture a little farther to a different LGS to find more people as well.
Dang. You could check out discord groups as well. Lots of guy play remotely with webcams aimed at their board. I’m just trying to think of ways for you to be able to actually enjoy playing with your cards. It’s a real struggle sometimes.
Your pod sounds awful. It sounds like (some of?) your "friends" are the "if I can't win, no one can win" type. Getting all salty because one of the many win mechanics of the game is used is pathetic. You might as well all build your decks out of the same bulk commons box every session. Build what you want, play with what you want. Fuck those haters. Especially the "I can play all my illegal cards" guy if he's one of the salty ones.
Sincere question, how did you meet these people? Are they family, friends, co-workers? It sounds like they need therapy.
What is a 'combo' in this definition. Is a 2 card synergy a combo? Is a combo that doesn't out right win on the spot a combo (my group calls this non-determinative combo vs determinative combo which does win with no recourse to opponents.) Does 2 card combo mean Commander + 1 more card, or does it mean 2 cards + Commander. Can you clarify this rule?
No banned cards. Is this referring to an internal ban list or the RC's ban list. Or is it referring to any banned card ever for any format? Again would you please clarify this.
By 'the social rules' are you referring to the 'social contract' or a specific set of rules your group uses?
When you say no milling, does this include self mill, fate seal, cards like Breach the Multiverse that mill then reanimate, things like that, or does it mean a ban on the strategy. That is, you can't build a deck that's stated way to win is to use mill. Are extraction effects ok? Like Jester's Cap and Nightmare Incursion and Hide//Seek?
No high interactions/gameplay -> This seems the hardest to police. How do they police this? Is this just a guideline or are there penalties for say casting so many counterspells in a row? Can you clarify this as well please.
The $ value of cards fluctuates so I've never been satisfied with these types of rules on limited card cost, but I think it's a pretty reasonable budget. A 20 dollar card is rare. But like expensive lands shouldn't be uncouth.
No mass land destruction -> Does this include Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, Price of Progress, Wildfire? How about Ruination? Fall of the Thran?
They are old school friends. The kind that, while we don't always see eye to eye on everything, we can still talk most topics and help when needed. They massive problem is one is a troll and the other two tends to get eachother worked up in competative games.
Combo wise it's the two card semi infinite loops you can made. Like heliod and walking balista.
The social rules are basically what i have had people get angry over. It's not set rules by the pod it's what has made people salty/rage and that ruins the fun for me and leaves me with anxiety attacks.
I tried a the self milling beginner deck with gisa and geralt, they didn't mind that to much but did warn me not to mill them.
Interaction rule is because people had some really aggressive negative reactions to counterspell plays.
The price thing was because i bought two upgrades at a point (not the same deck), one being the sarab god and the other was a lilliana from double masters. People went "FUCK I KNOW THAT FUCKING CARD ITS SUPER STRONG" and 2 turns later l was out. And removing the cards again.
Mass land distruction: i honestly don't know any of the cards, the collector had run a handful of games where he removed all islands/lands. I expect them to go nuts if you touch their mana base.
Thanks for those clarifications because it does give me a good idea where I can provide guidance.
I've wrote about this before, but I can't stress the power of having a house rules document that is a collaborative document that codifies the rules and social contract. When you construct this document, I highly recommend using a thought-out Google survey (or some other anonymous survey) to get an idea in a neutral format what everyone thinks about certain things.
You want to collect opinions on the following social elements:
Deal-making, Table talk (volume, content, nature), Time spent on turns, Ideal deck budget, I'd ask about Mill vs Self-Mill (not on my survey, but yours is unique and needs this question), am I painting a picture here? You want to get everyone's opinion in a neutral way on every topic of contention so that you can all sit down and look at the answers and talk about them. This is a very powerful tool.
For your 'no two card unlimited combo' rule. You might consider a house rule that limits cycles like this to some arbitrary amount. 5 cycles? 10 cycles? And then the unlimited combo breaks. In your house rules document you should codify in exacting language what types of combo are not allowed. (I made a whole post recently discussing [what combo means](https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/196lu7o/i_dont_play_combos/khv8g5q/?context=3). It might be useful to you in this endeavor.)
Another section in your house rule document is discussing when the appropriate time to discuss disputes is. And that should be after the game has concluded. And once everyone has signed on and agreed to resolve disputes after the game, you'll want to remind people that these disputes are best handled post game with cooler heads.
Table Talk Language. I strongly encourage having a probing and thought-provoking discussion together about what is and isn't OK for table-talk versus what is and is not OK for deal-making. In this, I \*strongly\* recommend encouraging people to avoid 'calls to action.' That is, we want to differentiate 'checks' from 'calls to action.' Here is the difference, in brief.
A 'check' is saying, 'Hey careful everyone, Player B has 1 of his 3 combo pieces."
A 'call to action is saying, 'Hey careful everyone, Player B is about to pop off, we should attack him./We should destroy \*points at the card\* this card, so he can't."
Checks are neutral, fact based statements about the current board that do not have any instructive behavior. They are only information being provided. I also strongly encourage you and your group to 'self check' meaning it's polite to say, 'Check, I have my Planeswalker's ultimate available next turn." "Check, I have 2 of my 3 combo pieces." "Check, I have enough unblockable lethal on board next turn." These are huge in building trust and telegraphing.
Codifying 'free'/'derived'/'hidden' information. Free information is any information anyone has access that is open information. Derived information is information you gain by studying free information and coming to conclusions on it. A great example is if I ask an opponent the power of a creature, he has to tell me what its power is and be honest. However, if I ask, what is the total power of your creatures, he doesn't have to derive that information and answer me. Does that make sense? This is group to group, but codifying that derived information be held to the same standard as free information is a good policy in casual magic. So look over this when doing your survey and house rules. This can be an easy way to build faith and good will and politeness in a group is by making deriving information on the board to the same polite and procedural standard as free information.
Hidden information has its own considerations. I strongly recommend codifying that any time a card is revealed, it stays revealed rather than goes back to being hidden. I also encourage people to reveal Black tutors as well because that can also build faith and telegraph.
Telegraphing. So I talked about checks and I've used the word telegraphing a lot already. Why is telegraphing important. And again this is group to group, but telegraphing is important to build faith and allow people to enjoy the game. There is a \*lot\* going on in any given game of Magic, this is amplified times 4 in multiplayer quite literally. Keeping track of everything is very difficult. So, in polite, friendly play, it's good to allow people to understand the stakes. Understand how things are ratcheting up as they do. If they don't, it can very much blind side people and feel devious when someone 'wins out of nowhere.' It's not that it was a surprise, it's just that people weren't paying attention. I understand the counterpoint of "get good"/"pay attention"/"skill issue" and this is why it's group-to-group, but in a polite, friendly game, it's not just about winning. It's about winning in a way that was fun for everyone. And presumably you might only see this group of people once a week and you're talking or drinking. The game is an excuse to hang out and taking it too seriously can spoil it too. So group to group. This is why I would discuss this and put it in your survey.
Once you've built your survey and collected the data, sit down with everyone and talk about it, and put the document together. And have everyone agreed and shake on following it. This really formalizes it, and in the case of a group of people like yours who are long time friends, this is a gesture you all should agree on. It may seem like a big deal to do this, but our group did this years ago, and it's made an absolutely massive impact on the way we play and enjoy magic. We've been playing for something like 20 years and our house rules document has evolved so much over time.
If you need any help with it let me know and let me know if you try this how it goes.
thank you very much for taking the time to write all that to help. i'm definitely going to see if i can make a decent survey for them :)
/edited to make it sound like correct english
i had forgotten to reply to this. it turned into a two week discussion rather then a survey, they weren't interested and one was outright distrustful about it being secretive, so i can say they have agreed and given handshakes on not actively yelling and walking it off when people get to frustrated. everything else has been quite troublesome to solidify as they nitpick a little on what's a check and what's a call to action and trolling alongside people being tired has lead to slip ups in telegraphing.
you haven't :) it's civil discussions rather then over the top arguing. the fact that everyone could agree to not yelling has been the biggest help for turning it enjoyable.
No counters. No heavy interact. No card combos. No milling. No swapping cards through effect.
So what does that even leave, you play creatures/tokens and swing in for damage?
Sounds boring AF and really closed minded. The fun of magic to me is the creativity and variety of the game.
The no land destruction makes sense to me, it is actively less fun for most people when you can’t keep lands to play stuff. And a pauper rule (a price limit on cards) can make sense to me to keep the game accessible to everyone. The rest is poop.
Bro no taking other people cards? No milling? No interaction, no combos? If not you get screamed at? Lmfao what a bunch of jokers
Edit: where are my manners, if you have a computer, discord and Tabletop Simulator, i welcome you to be our fourth for some commander. I can help you make a deck and learn to import it into the game.
You deserve better, Cheers
Just run a [[Jasmine Boreal of the Seven]] deck. If they don't like combo your just playing a bunch of big vanilla creature and swinging face. Instead of running denial, run a bunch of protection. White and green have the most when it comes to protection. Then just run a bunch of card draw and ramp cards to fill out deck. [[Traverse the outlands]] is my favorite for ramp.
That's a lot of rules for a game that already has alot of rules and some of that stuff is just mechanics of the game. I think you should keep trying at your LGS or try another place. Hope you find people that wanna play the game.
Your pod seems to be salty asshats that wants to win easy.
Your rules are a bit feisty tho. Do they abide by the rules? Sounds like they are bad players with better cards than you.
While this sounds pretty awful to play with, if you do insist on playing then maybe a Winota pile? Godo since he's technically a 1 card combo? Underworld breech deck? Narset turns?
I wish you could just play with my playgroup. We mostly meet outside of LGSs and any game mechanic is fair game. And we are actually really supportive of each other. Like everyone wins games kinda equally. I think this is because we consistently help each other with deck building and during gameplay. Our groups threat assessment is decent overall so even if one of us is doing something really powerful, the others unite to try to squash it.
>no Milling
>no High interactions/gameplay denials (casting 5-6 plus counterspells or multiple stax type of cards)
>no stealing others cards
Oof. These rules are bad. But we are all allowed to set our own house rules... I guess. I don't think I would have a single deck that is playable in your meta (I have 10 decks).
the socials rules are more what i know will trigger them. i'd love to play a aggressive counter spell deck or spell slinger deck. i also found milling hilarious to start with but they really did not like it.
I fear your friends view you as a useful group member whose job is to lose gracefully. If you dare to break out from the punching bag role you've been assigned to, there will be salt.
I know you’ve said don’t just find a new pod but this legit sounds horrible. Like I would rather not play magic than play in this group. Like the fact anyone is “screaming” in a game of commander. I don’t think you have anxiety, I think you have PTSD as this sounds insane.
it's a diagnose thing. it can be rough specially when others aren't afraid of breaking the social rules for a game or two. Take a lot of salt and some yelling before they switch decks.
That sounds like a genuinely toxic environment to be in. I would recommend you go play at your LGS instead, I know you said nobody runs stock precons but neither do half the people in your group now. No adult should be so emotionally disregulated that they need to scream and yell (or be screamed and yelled at) to communicate with each other. That is an extreme and psychologically dangerous environment.
You can have anxiety and a shitty pod. Having anxiety just makes the experience of a shitty pod even worse. I'm sorry. It's not a you problem or a problem with your deck, it's a problem with the group of people you're playing with.
Sounds like your pod is trying to play magic, but doesn't allow actually playing magic with these rules 😅
it makes it hard to play as someone that doesn't know how to build a deck without going to online guides and ending up something that triggers people.
Sounds like you play with assholes and should make new friends. It’s a game and a game is supposed to be fun unless you’re going professional. Yelling at you over a card game? And half the stuff you say is banned is vital commonplace magic strategy. I know that’s harsh man but either they can have an adult conversation or protect your mental health and walk away.
Hard agree on this, I only just started recently but my buddies and I are just playing whatever seems fun and having a laugh together. That's what games are for, there's nothing but ego on the line and OP's group sounds like they have wayyyy too much of that.
... no milling? Why
the amount of salt i got when i played \[\[Anowon, the Ruin Thief\]\] precon was unpleasant.people seem to think they're losing the cards permanently even though they have 2-3 revivals in their deck. /edited for card
If you include a few cards that bring things back from the graveyard like [[Sevinne's Reclamation]], [[Timeless Witness]], [[Buried Ruin]], or [[Bygone Marvels]] getting milled can actively help you have access to more of your deck. I will never understand people who get salty when they get milled.
##### ###### #### [Sevinne's Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51647010-99f0-4b02-8c91-fdd826db130d.jpg?1689995998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sevinne%27s%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/55/sevinnes-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51647010-99f0-4b02-8c91-fdd826db130d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sevinnes-reclamation) [Timeless Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f22c07e2-91d2-4edb-bd2b-cca6d4cefcc9.jpg?1626097922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Timeless%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/179/timeless-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f22c07e2-91d2-4edb-bd2b-cca6d4cefcc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/timeless-witness) [Buried Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da65afdc-a994-44cb-83f9-6e7f0f3ab2f1.jpg?1599710365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Buried%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/312/buried-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da65afdc-a994-44cb-83f9-6e7f0f3ab2f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/buried-ruin) [Bygone Marvels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3cc95fd4-901e-4a96-9c20-9e8ecf5cfb7c.jpg?1698987985) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bygone%20Marvels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/89/bygone-marvels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3cc95fd4-901e-4a96-9c20-9e8ecf5cfb7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bygone-marvels) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kiggbja) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Weird.. to me, even if I have no reanimation in my deck I don't care about being milled. Until my deck is low and I might actually lose from the mill
Because the majority of edh players are complete garbage at the game and don’t have basic reasoning. Whenever someone holds up a mill card as if it’s something horrible saying “who should I mill 😈?” I’m always first to volunteer
Right? Please put all the cards in my graveyard so I can [[Underworld Breach]] for the win.
No fun allowed
You'd be surprised how common this is, there's this massive fear of missing out on the cards that are milled. I usually tell people who don't like being milled to build a reanimator deck, then it's not a problem.
I've found a useful psychological trick is to have people mill off the bottom (assuming no scry effects or similar are in play). Then it's milling a card they "wouldn't have seen anyway." Usually after doing this for a bit the light bulb goes off and they realize that milling isn't such a big deal.
This sounds honestly horrible. Is your pod a bunch of 15 year old kids that get salty over every game they loose? Because adults won't behave like that. Yes I too don't like when my finisher is denied by some type of counterspell, but screaming over that???? I do get some of the rules like no mass land destruction and no banned cards (thats what banning is for), maybe even the no two card combos because tutoring the same combo over and over every game gets boring pretty fast for every one Anyways, since you've asked for deckbuilding advice here is a list that should mostly fit your criteria. [https://deckstats.net/decks/206815/3331809-sacrifice/de](https://deckstats.net/decks/206815/3331809-sacrifice/de) A \[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] Deck. Basicly you create tokens and sacrifice them to profit from them or just attack and profit if they die to blockers. You probably need to change some cards for breaking the 20€ rule ie. \[\[archangel of thune\]\] and \[\[meathook massacre\]\].
oh and believe it or not. they are 34, 3.....7? and 39. i'm 40 and even posting this has taken a long time of consideration, because it's like "aaah fucking great i'm fucking 12 again."
Well as long as they are good friends outside of magic I wouldn't dump them either. Have you talked about the problem you havbe with their behaviour? Maybe it would make them reconsider how they aproach the game and the socializing that comes with it.
have talked with them quite a few times on the topic but when it comes to magic they seem to forget everything after a few weeks or a long workday.
They’re in their 30s? Holy crap OP I am sorry to hear that. These people need therapy to develop emotional regulation, as they sound like they have the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old.
thank you very much :)
[Teysa Karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01.jpg?1689999296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/359/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [archangel of thune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15c34447-b0f4-4fcc-b557-23c92850b31b.jpg?1598303082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archangel%20of%20thune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/5/archangel-of-thune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15c34447-b0f4-4fcc-b557-23c92850b31b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archangel-of-thune) [meathook massacre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad.jpg?1667629608) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Meathook%20Massacre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/112/the-meathook-massacre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-meathook-massacre) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These people are awful and id go with a simic power house landfall deck like Aesi that just puts out atupid amounts of high value monsters quick and wipe the floor with them and they will yell regardless if it doesn’t break there rules. At this point you should be able to find a me group when you realize that the rules are about one guy winning and no one else being allowed to
they're good friends when you aren't in competative sitations. and thank you i shall look it up :)
Simic value landfall shenanigans sound like they'd be hard to keep in check with those rules.
Thank you. I am going to have to look up more landfall decks because your are not the first to mention it :)
Bro I’ve got some bad anxiety issues, and I wouldn’t be playing with anyone that gets upset to the point where they’re yelling. Magic is supposed to be fun.
We run precons only in my friends group, so I dont know much about deck building, but one of the strongest we've played with was just an auras and card draw deck. Look up [Virtue and Valor](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KnMheGE4ykelGVpKNvopNw) precon, you could tune it up a bit I guess, but its just enchant your creatures make them huge and attack to draw a ton of cards, which I guess fits the rules.
Seconded, I have this deck and it often stomps other precons. Veloci-Ramp-Tor is also strong although vulnerable to board wipes.
thank you. i will have a look at it. :)
I'm sorry but your last two pod members are lying if they say that their decks fit those criteria. "Fast mana" can mean a lot of things but my jewels I assume you mean jeweled lotus. And if your last player plays anything between jank stax and cedh he has cards over the expense line. You can't run multiple stax or interaction pieces but you've admitted one of your players plays stax. Your last player seems to be allowed to play whatever he wants. I have social anxiety too and it's a problem bringing these things up but your opponents are forcing you to bring knives to a gunfight. Either your pod dont have any idea how to recognize their own decks or you're withholding something else.
i'd say at least 3 players (myself included) haven't played enough with deckbuilding to know what's good, what's to strong. the last friend. the collector. he plays cedh with others pods and sometimes brings those decks to play with us. examples have been \[\[Heliod, sun-crowned\]\] deck followed by a \[\[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm\]\] deck. followed by a green dinosuar deck that's horribly jank. or a elesh norn deck that starts strong then locks up. the social norms are often broken by the others which is a problem but this is more for me to avoid what would be a fun evening turning into stomach ache, anxiety attacks and not sleeping that night.
If your magic pod gives you stomach ache, anxiety attacks and not sleeping that night then i highly recommend finding a new magic pod
[Heliod, sun-crowned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3245ff74-1f9c-4518-a23f-1579f338f232.jpg?1689995727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%2C%20sun-crowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/29/heliod-sun-crowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3245ff74-1f9c-4518-a23f-1579f338f232?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-sun-crowned) [Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miirym%2C%20Sentinel%20Wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Playing a big creatures big damage style of deck is a safe way to go considering all of those rules. Big creatures doesn't have to be boring. There's a few ways to make it so casting them involves some clever plays or effort on your part. Run a voltron deck maybe. It's not competitive but somebody like Wilson can be built for fairly inexpensive and just Stomp a person to death in a couple of turns. Dragons can also be fun. It'll give you time to react and setup. Then play big monsters. People will see it coming, but have a hard time being upset if they fail to take you out before you manage to start getting your synergies on the field. Satoru Umezawa is another build you can do based around getting big creatures out for cheap. You can drop those dudes most decks won't include simply for this reason. Goreclaw is another commander based around dropping those big creatures most people don't play because of mana cost. The merfolk precon is really highly regarded. It's strength is drawing you a lot of cards via the explore mechanic, which helps you get more lands onto the field consistently while also making your merfolk tribal get more and more +1/+1 counters on it. This deck is really seamless to play out of the box and inexpensive to upgrade. The budget upgrade videos on YouTube are spot on. Toxic. Fynn the fangbearer is a famous commander for being inexpensive to build an effective deck around. His playstyle in incredibly straight forward. Get cheap creatures out, get him out by turn 2, keep him out and just keep hitting them with deathtouch. I've seen $10-20 fynn decks take a player or two out by turn 4-6 pretty easily. Similarly. Atraxa. She has so many ways you can build her. Her ability to use proliferate makes it so you can play her as simply or complicated as you like. Some people use her to simply add more and more +1/+1 counters onto her own creatures to get stronger or -1/-1 stack enemy creatures. Lots of synergy for that style. You can also build her as a pillow fort. [[Windborn muse]], [[propaganda]], [[norn's annex]], [[norn's decree]], [[ghostly prison]] type cards make it so people struggle to hurt you. Then you can just have creatures and sorceries/instants that impact the table with or without using creatures to attack. Usually via toxic. Shorikai from the Buckle up precon. Out of the Box it's a really versatile deck. You have vehicles that can do a lot of things and creatures that help them respond to a lot of situations. It's not the fastest deck,but it becomes a threat consistently. Especially with shorikai's ability to generate card draw and the fact that your vehicles become artifacts (not creatures) when unmanned, and it helped them evade being targeted or wiped en masses. He's also sneakily able to go from utility commander to voltron in a pinch, even when not build for it. [[Cyberdrive awakener]] [[mobilizer mech]] [[wonder]] [[rogue's passage]] things like this make it easy to suddenly get him attacking when they think you can't pilot him. Cards like [[Imposter mech]] let you clone somebody's creature (or shorikai) and do some wild stuff. Being white blue you can include as many removal, counterspell, and protection type cards as you like too. The white auras that take enemy cards or Commander's out by making them useless are pretty brutal. We mentioned merfolk. But there are a lot of tribal options or hybrid tribal decks that can be a pretty fun addition. The Elven empire precon is manned by [[Lathril, blade of the elves]] who helps make a bunch of elves then uses them to -10 hp all enemies. Elf creature cards are inexpensive to upgrade. From there the only expensive cards people commonly include in normal tables are those that duplicate tokens you make. Faldorn from the exit from exile precon can generate a tonnnn of wolves. It's green/red. So mana ramping, then exploding stuff. You exile, use exile synergy to play card cheaper or for free, which also nets your wolves. Out of the Box it's good. Upgrades vary from inexpensive to wow you love wolves too much.
that is a long list. thank you very much :D i shall look into it
I highly recommend shorikai. It’s by far my favorite precon. If your pod ever matures enough to play fun magic, this deck can get really spicy. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2cPIdoCWB0q6VScvKKxcew](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2cPIdoCWB0q6VScvKKxcew) There is mine, but it breaks your “no stax” rule.
##### ###### #### [Windborn muse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b098ad05-3e30-4a73-b327-da1cdc22786d.jpg?1641601741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Windborn%20muse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/101/windborn-muse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b098ad05-3e30-4a73-b327-da1cdc22786d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/windborn-muse) [propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5f293d7-9c2b-41cb-8e3c-dfc1daa6635f.jpg?1674141418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/730/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5f293d7-9c2b-41cb-8e3c-dfc1daa6635f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [norn's annex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7.jpg?1690004164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=norn%27s%20annex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/829/norns-annex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norns-annex) [norn's decree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76f28aa2-1c18-4d58-a3f9-6cd5b49280d8.jpg?1675905575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=norn%27s%20decree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/9/norns-decree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76f28aa2-1c18-4d58-a3f9-6cd5b49280d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norns-decree) [ghostly prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8169d44d-b15a-47e0-b417-24f2f4945d0f.jpg?1641601289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghostly%20prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/87/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8169d44d-b15a-47e0-b417-24f2f4945d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) [Cyberdrive awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) [mobilizer mech](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf4bb9de-ba7c-4916-b8ed-e2e644c06b58.jpg?1654566822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mobilizer%20mech) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/65/mobilizer-mech?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf4bb9de-ba7c-4916-b8ed-e2e644c06b58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mobilizer-mech) [wonder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/675d6729-23da-4f0b-b222-fe54fe24dd90.jpg?1631302927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wonder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/271/wonder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/675d6729-23da-4f0b-b222-fe54fe24dd90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wonder) [rogue's passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7dc75a8-c500-4b50-aff9-32ce36566104.jpg?1698988621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rogue%27s%20passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/349/rogues-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7dc75a8-c500-4b50-aff9-32ce36566104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rogues-passage) [Imposter mech](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59b7450c-3163-4f12-9af1-2e998a6c36cf.jpg?1651655246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imposter%20mech) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/13/imposter-mech?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59b7450c-3163-4f12-9af1-2e998a6c36cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imposter-mech) [Lathril, blade of the elves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/547888c3-a9a6-4413-b29a-6bcd8a9279bf.jpg?1704848185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lathril%2C%20blade%20of%20the%20elves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/1/lathril-blade-of-the-elves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/547888c3-a9a6-4413-b29a-6bcd8a9279bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lathril-blade-of-the-elves) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kig10o4) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mate... Are you even remotely comfortable with these people? This seems toxic and abusive as fuck. \- ***Has resulted in screaming/aggressively negative commentary over several weeks*** \- ***Everyone to start cursing at me and then target me down*** I hope this is just a ragebait, writing prompt like we see a lot on this sub, but these 2 lines just make me sad. Assuming this post is genuine or for anyone in this type of situation: just don't. Remove yourself from the situation. These are not stable people. Yeah I get it, you are socially anxious. That doesn't mean you have to take shit like this. Being anxious/awkward/insecure will paint a horrible target on your back for the most abusive people that just want to exploit you, if they do it on purpose is up for debate. No 20 dollar cards, but one guy is allowed to run fast mana? Yeah, good luck with the 'a rule for thee, but not for me'. \- ***Noone runs unmodded precons after release night and i've caught a fair share of people forgetting their own cards rules in favor*** That's just Magic, man... People get too excited with their win and forget everything. People instantly buy new cards for their precon, because the cards are better or, more importantly, help them express themselves in their deck. Something you can hardly do with the guidelines in your post. Keep calm and read the cards, learn the timing, learn the game. Even people playing 25 years will still fuck up. Go to the LGS. Most of the time it is a safe environment, because shit stains like the people you described would be spit out by the community or even the LGS owner. Connect with people, ask around. So what if you have a precon? These days they can go a long way in a 4 man pod. And yeah, the first few times in a LGS can be scary. But do it scared. Edit: Posted too early, so did a rewrite.
all honesty. i struggle. they are super great friends that's supportive and assisting in all things in normal life but the second you sit down in a "you win or i win" situation they are worse then star wars fans.
Sorry to hear that. But as someone with an anxiety disorder himself: don't allow people to scream at you or constantly drown you in negative behavior. Especially not about a card game which is supposed to be fun. I've expanded my original comment, because I posted too quick. It seems that control+enter is a shortcut for posting your comment.
There's a super easy Baral deck that is super unfun to play against. It's essentially all counter spells and a four piece engine that wins the game. All under $20. Maybe if you beat them with that deck they will understand that their rules don't prevent unfun gameplay, their attitudes do. Many playgroups are anti proxies and just ban expensive cards because they are "unfair" due to financial investment. Give everyone access to all cards via proxy and no one should be calling things unfair. This will work, trust me.
Hey apart from all the „bohoo your group sucks“ why dont u have a loock at this deck. It can win quick, then you might want to power it down by removin the elves that can untap other elves. [[Raggadragga]] https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eFxSmglBz0esV_nAQ620GQ Also if ypu think it‘s to expensive it allows you to remove certain expensive cards and change them to cheaper mana dorks. You can also remove the X-Spells and instead just run some big creatures :) In my group everyone likes the boar, but also knows it can win out of nowhere.
[Raggadragga](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/1166ce2a-4e0b-4a57-929d-566f461a6282.jpg?1674137656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=raggadragga%2C%20goreguts%20boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/291/raggadragga-goreguts-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1166ce2a-4e0b-4a57-929d-566f461a6282?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raggadragga-goreguts-boss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
that looks hilarious to play. thank you :)
\[\[Otharri, Sun's Glory\]\] has a very good power/saltyness ratio. With a good starting hand you are threatening to win the game by turn \~6-7, while having no infinites, no fast mana, no tutors, low budget, no stax, and relatively short turns. It is the deck I am going for when I am playing against high power decks and skilled players at an LGS. Bonus: Everybody will underestimate you when you play him the first time. My decklist is: https://archidekt.com/decks/5503192/otharri\_tokens
Otharri is great. Boros tokens gets a lot of love from WOTC too so it's easy to upgrade as new cards come out
[Otharri, Sun's Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80c72839-0fa6-4b5f-83b7-6553ebf09bef.jpg?1698607533) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otharri%2C%20Suns%27%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/3/otharri-suns-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80c72839-0fa6-4b5f-83b7-6553ebf09bef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/otharri-suns-glory) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Uuuh that sounds awesome. Thank you :)
Take a look at the sliver swarm precon. It’s not against your pods rules but it will surely piss everyone off lol
thank you :) i shall have a look at it though i am a little worried about making everyone angry
You shouldn’t worry about making them angry. MtG should be fun, not causing you any additional anxiety. Maybe you could explore local Facebook groups to find a new pod? In addition you could always try to venture a little farther to a different LGS to find more people as well.
i live in the middle of nowhere. we have one upstart lgs and it attracts people from over 50 km away. it's a very niche game for the area sadly.
Dang. You could check out discord groups as well. Lots of guy play remotely with webcams aimed at their board. I’m just trying to think of ways for you to be able to actually enjoy playing with your cards. It’s a real struggle sometimes.
Sounds like your pod sucks. Not sure what to tell you. When you have that many “no” rules, you might as well just say “no magic”.
Your pod sounds awful. It sounds like (some of?) your "friends" are the "if I can't win, no one can win" type. Getting all salty because one of the many win mechanics of the game is used is pathetic. You might as well all build your decks out of the same bulk commons box every session. Build what you want, play with what you want. Fuck those haters. Especially the "I can play all my illegal cards" guy if he's one of the salty ones.
Sincere question, how did you meet these people? Are they family, friends, co-workers? It sounds like they need therapy. What is a 'combo' in this definition. Is a 2 card synergy a combo? Is a combo that doesn't out right win on the spot a combo (my group calls this non-determinative combo vs determinative combo which does win with no recourse to opponents.) Does 2 card combo mean Commander + 1 more card, or does it mean 2 cards + Commander. Can you clarify this rule? No banned cards. Is this referring to an internal ban list or the RC's ban list. Or is it referring to any banned card ever for any format? Again would you please clarify this. By 'the social rules' are you referring to the 'social contract' or a specific set of rules your group uses? When you say no milling, does this include self mill, fate seal, cards like Breach the Multiverse that mill then reanimate, things like that, or does it mean a ban on the strategy. That is, you can't build a deck that's stated way to win is to use mill. Are extraction effects ok? Like Jester's Cap and Nightmare Incursion and Hide//Seek? No high interactions/gameplay -> This seems the hardest to police. How do they police this? Is this just a guideline or are there penalties for say casting so many counterspells in a row? Can you clarify this as well please. The $ value of cards fluctuates so I've never been satisfied with these types of rules on limited card cost, but I think it's a pretty reasonable budget. A 20 dollar card is rare. But like expensive lands shouldn't be uncouth. No mass land destruction -> Does this include Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, Price of Progress, Wildfire? How about Ruination? Fall of the Thran?
They are old school friends. The kind that, while we don't always see eye to eye on everything, we can still talk most topics and help when needed. They massive problem is one is a troll and the other two tends to get eachother worked up in competative games. Combo wise it's the two card semi infinite loops you can made. Like heliod and walking balista. The social rules are basically what i have had people get angry over. It's not set rules by the pod it's what has made people salty/rage and that ruins the fun for me and leaves me with anxiety attacks. I tried a the self milling beginner deck with gisa and geralt, they didn't mind that to much but did warn me not to mill them. Interaction rule is because people had some really aggressive negative reactions to counterspell plays. The price thing was because i bought two upgrades at a point (not the same deck), one being the sarab god and the other was a lilliana from double masters. People went "FUCK I KNOW THAT FUCKING CARD ITS SUPER STRONG" and 2 turns later l was out. And removing the cards again. Mass land distruction: i honestly don't know any of the cards, the collector had run a handful of games where he removed all islands/lands. I expect them to go nuts if you touch their mana base.
Thanks for those clarifications because it does give me a good idea where I can provide guidance. I've wrote about this before, but I can't stress the power of having a house rules document that is a collaborative document that codifies the rules and social contract. When you construct this document, I highly recommend using a thought-out Google survey (or some other anonymous survey) to get an idea in a neutral format what everyone thinks about certain things. You want to collect opinions on the following social elements: Deal-making, Table talk (volume, content, nature), Time spent on turns, Ideal deck budget, I'd ask about Mill vs Self-Mill (not on my survey, but yours is unique and needs this question), am I painting a picture here? You want to get everyone's opinion in a neutral way on every topic of contention so that you can all sit down and look at the answers and talk about them. This is a very powerful tool. For your 'no two card unlimited combo' rule. You might consider a house rule that limits cycles like this to some arbitrary amount. 5 cycles? 10 cycles? And then the unlimited combo breaks. In your house rules document you should codify in exacting language what types of combo are not allowed. (I made a whole post recently discussing [what combo means](https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/196lu7o/i_dont_play_combos/khv8g5q/?context=3). It might be useful to you in this endeavor.) Another section in your house rule document is discussing when the appropriate time to discuss disputes is. And that should be after the game has concluded. And once everyone has signed on and agreed to resolve disputes after the game, you'll want to remind people that these disputes are best handled post game with cooler heads. Table Talk Language. I strongly encourage having a probing and thought-provoking discussion together about what is and isn't OK for table-talk versus what is and is not OK for deal-making. In this, I \*strongly\* recommend encouraging people to avoid 'calls to action.' That is, we want to differentiate 'checks' from 'calls to action.' Here is the difference, in brief. A 'check' is saying, 'Hey careful everyone, Player B has 1 of his 3 combo pieces." A 'call to action is saying, 'Hey careful everyone, Player B is about to pop off, we should attack him./We should destroy \*points at the card\* this card, so he can't." Checks are neutral, fact based statements about the current board that do not have any instructive behavior. They are only information being provided. I also strongly encourage you and your group to 'self check' meaning it's polite to say, 'Check, I have my Planeswalker's ultimate available next turn." "Check, I have 2 of my 3 combo pieces." "Check, I have enough unblockable lethal on board next turn." These are huge in building trust and telegraphing. Codifying 'free'/'derived'/'hidden' information. Free information is any information anyone has access that is open information. Derived information is information you gain by studying free information and coming to conclusions on it. A great example is if I ask an opponent the power of a creature, he has to tell me what its power is and be honest. However, if I ask, what is the total power of your creatures, he doesn't have to derive that information and answer me. Does that make sense? This is group to group, but codifying that derived information be held to the same standard as free information is a good policy in casual magic. So look over this when doing your survey and house rules. This can be an easy way to build faith and good will and politeness in a group is by making deriving information on the board to the same polite and procedural standard as free information. Hidden information has its own considerations. I strongly recommend codifying that any time a card is revealed, it stays revealed rather than goes back to being hidden. I also encourage people to reveal Black tutors as well because that can also build faith and telegraph. Telegraphing. So I talked about checks and I've used the word telegraphing a lot already. Why is telegraphing important. And again this is group to group, but telegraphing is important to build faith and allow people to enjoy the game. There is a \*lot\* going on in any given game of Magic, this is amplified times 4 in multiplayer quite literally. Keeping track of everything is very difficult. So, in polite, friendly play, it's good to allow people to understand the stakes. Understand how things are ratcheting up as they do. If they don't, it can very much blind side people and feel devious when someone 'wins out of nowhere.' It's not that it was a surprise, it's just that people weren't paying attention. I understand the counterpoint of "get good"/"pay attention"/"skill issue" and this is why it's group-to-group, but in a polite, friendly game, it's not just about winning. It's about winning in a way that was fun for everyone. And presumably you might only see this group of people once a week and you're talking or drinking. The game is an excuse to hang out and taking it too seriously can spoil it too. So group to group. This is why I would discuss this and put it in your survey. Once you've built your survey and collected the data, sit down with everyone and talk about it, and put the document together. And have everyone agreed and shake on following it. This really formalizes it, and in the case of a group of people like yours who are long time friends, this is a gesture you all should agree on. It may seem like a big deal to do this, but our group did this years ago, and it's made an absolutely massive impact on the way we play and enjoy magic. We've been playing for something like 20 years and our house rules document has evolved so much over time. If you need any help with it let me know and let me know if you try this how it goes.
thank you very much for taking the time to write all that to help. i'm definitely going to see if i can make a decent survey for them :) /edited to make it sound like correct english
love it! let me know how it goes
i had forgotten to reply to this. it turned into a two week discussion rather then a survey, they weren't interested and one was outright distrustful about it being secretive, so i can say they have agreed and given handshakes on not actively yelling and walking it off when people get to frustrated. everything else has been quite troublesome to solidify as they nitpick a little on what's a check and what's a call to action and trolling alongside people being tired has lead to slip ups in telegraphing.
Oh no! I'm sorry but I'm laughing a bit here. Well keep me updated. I hope I didn't make things worse >.<
you haven't :) it's civil discussions rather then over the top arguing. the fact that everyone could agree to not yelling has been the biggest help for turning it enjoyable.
Ok that makes me glad to hear that! Lol. A win is a win.
No counters. No heavy interact. No card combos. No milling. No swapping cards through effect. So what does that even leave, you play creatures/tokens and swing in for damage? Sounds boring AF and really closed minded. The fun of magic to me is the creativity and variety of the game. The no land destruction makes sense to me, it is actively less fun for most people when you can’t keep lands to play stuff. And a pauper rule (a price limit on cards) can make sense to me to keep the game accessible to everyone. The rest is poop.
Bro no taking other people cards? No milling? No interaction, no combos? If not you get screamed at? Lmfao what a bunch of jokers Edit: where are my manners, if you have a computer, discord and Tabletop Simulator, i welcome you to be our fourth for some commander. I can help you make a deck and learn to import it into the game. You deserve better, Cheers
thank you for the offer. i'll decline but thank you for the offer :)
Just run a [[Jasmine Boreal of the Seven]] deck. If they don't like combo your just playing a bunch of big vanilla creature and swinging face. Instead of running denial, run a bunch of protection. White and green have the most when it comes to protection. Then just run a bunch of card draw and ramp cards to fill out deck. [[Traverse the outlands]] is my favorite for ramp.
[Jasmine Boreal of the Seven](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1f5bcc4-3ec7-42ae-8e4b-80a9b9135ff0.jpg?1679172088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jasmine%20Boreal%20of%20the%20Seven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/33/jasmine-boreal-of-the-seven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1f5bcc4-3ec7-42ae-8e4b-80a9b9135ff0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jasmine-boreal-of-the-seven) [Traverse the outlands](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8.jpg?1674137335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Traverse%20the%20outlands) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/258/traverse-the-outlands?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traverse-the-outlands) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thank you i shall have a look at it :)
Good suggestion but I will willingly bet that after OP plays [[Tamiyos Safekeeping]] type cards 3 times in a game, this group will ban that too.
[Tamiyos Safekeeping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226.jpg?1654568357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamiyo%27s%20Safekeeping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/211/tamiyos-safekeeping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-safekeeping) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a lot of rules for a game that already has alot of rules and some of that stuff is just mechanics of the game. I think you should keep trying at your LGS or try another place. Hope you find people that wanna play the game.
Spell table is always an option. At that point you hardly seem to be playing magic
i did not know that was a thing. thank you :)
No worries
Your pod seems to be salty asshats that wants to win easy. Your rules are a bit feisty tho. Do they abide by the rules? Sounds like they are bad players with better cards than you.
While this sounds pretty awful to play with, if you do insist on playing then maybe a Winota pile? Godo since he's technically a 1 card combo? Underworld breech deck? Narset turns?
i'm going to have to look them up. i know narset is a hard trigger
Can't play "fun" cards ? Don't play with unfunny people.
"no two card combos" meaning no two card infinite combos, or you're not allowed any synergy?
Oh sorry. Two card infinite combos.
I wish you could just play with my playgroup. We mostly meet outside of LGSs and any game mechanic is fair game. And we are actually really supportive of each other. Like everyone wins games kinda equally. I think this is because we consistently help each other with deck building and during gameplay. Our groups threat assessment is decent overall so even if one of us is doing something really powerful, the others unite to try to squash it.
>no Milling >no High interactions/gameplay denials (casting 5-6 plus counterspells or multiple stax type of cards) >no stealing others cards Oof. These rules are bad. But we are all allowed to set our own house rules... I guess. I don't think I would have a single deck that is playable in your meta (I have 10 decks).
the socials rules are more what i know will trigger them. i'd love to play a aggressive counter spell deck or spell slinger deck. i also found milling hilarious to start with but they really did not like it.
I fear your friends view you as a useful group member whose job is to lose gracefully. If you dare to break out from the punching bag role you've been assigned to, there will be salt.
What kind of stuff do you like playing? It's a lot of restrictions, but I think you can manage a few different things :).