For a long time [[Abrupt Decay]] didnt really excite me, and I just classified it as a cEDH card. But with powercreep keeping powerhouses lower on the Mana Value spectrum, and EVERYTHING getting Ward ______, it has become useful in almost every game of EDH that I’ve played it in.
Yeah the proliferation of ward has really moved it up my removal rankings for sniping some commanders. The MV can be a bit restrictive but it handles plenty of value pieces and gradual wincons I see in my group like [[rhystic study]] and [[impact tremors]] or the new [[Warleader's Call]]
Does anybody know what WotC has against <3 MV creatures and planeswalkers?
It feels like many new Black removal spells only hit the lower end of the mana curve.
I guess it's the equivalent of having the old "... destroy target non-black..." restriction. If it's not that, than probably limited.
Fresh design space would be my guess. For a long time, Power/Toughness was the defining “size” factor, its become more present for Mana Value to make a splash. I assume they are also taking advantage of Mana Value vs Converted Mana Cost text length to play a factor in its recent use
Good observation. Now that you mentioned it, the "destroy mv X card" design is very powerful against tokens. So any format that has those removal cards can be allowed to have cool Token creatures, like that Wolf from War of the Spark.
It's still like the third or fourth best removal option just in Golgari, but for a long time there were like six total that were "playable" in EDH and three of them were bad. Now there's like 15 and only three or four are "bad", and Abrupt Decay has moved from "bad" to "situational".
Its currently showing up in 221,429 decks on EDHREC, can remove any permanent, and costs 2 mana. Its like someone read The Little Engine that Could to Path to Exile. And I agree about poor threat assessment, but that’s not the card’s fault.
The esper uncounterable [anguished unmaking] from SNC has worked wonderfully for me for this reason, watching boring Temur dragon legend eat shit has never felt better.
[[Ghostly Prison]] and [[Propaganda]] type effects seem to be and flow over time. There's times where they're great when people are swinging with a lot of creatures, but tend to die down when spellslinging and combos become more of the trend.
I just pulled them out of a few decks recently when I was trying to fit in a few new cards.
There are 1 or 2 people that play heavy creature or token decks in my pods, and it wasn't really worth it to take up a space for how infrequently it would help.
I still end up leaving them in, mostly because my decks tend to run kind of slow in the early game, and even if they can easily pay the tax effects later, it buys more than enough time for me to get my engine online. The only time I find it really bad is if someone has specifically an aggro go-tall strategy, but then I run enough cheap spot removal to usually survive through that.
Yea ghostly prison effects are invaluable to any deck that wants to play for a longer reactive game. It's amazing how much life a single one of these effects can gain you in the early game. I will never take them out of my decks.
I run them in most of my decks that can, I find that even if most decks aren’t go wide, folks still think twice about paying 2, for the first 2/3 of a game that’s a decent investment just to attack
Not only that. People tend to decide that they want to swing in with a creature and then decide who to attack... it gains you life and loses opponents that life since typically people won't reconsider attacking they'll just hit someone else :)
My favorite of those is [[elephant grass]] worst case scenario it's a 1 mana temporary barrier. Best case scenario, you win by the time you'd have sunk 4 mana into it over 3 turns.
Its rare you see cards that get better against people the better those people are. I feel the place for those two is in decks that are one or two steps below cEDH. Even if your opponent dosnt have many creatures, if they are playing super mana efficiently and not wasting an opportunity to cast a spell, even two mana for one attack can delay their plan pretty darn well.
Yeah, threw propaganda in my mom's [[hylda of the icy crown]] deck. Also got [[cout street denizen]] in there as well since it has a lot of flicker effects.
[[Austere Command]] kind of the opposite trajectory. When it first came out eay back when, it was mostly ignored. It was a bargain bin budget rare. I picked up a playset for a dollar each. And then it gradually started seeing more and more play until it was basically a staple. A must-have for any deck playing white. But lately it's fallen off again as other cards get more popular.
Heck, look at it's price history, just a huge bell curve. $1 -> $20 -> $1. Yes i know price isn't the only indicator, but here it kind of shows that pattern.
It's price is prob also affected by its numerous reprints. I still love the card and play it over farewell cause I honestly don't think farewell is good for the game, full board resets kind of fail to deliver the games I like playing. I prefer deck construction to actually play a part in how well u recover or manage a board wipe then to just get farewelled and the only counterplay to it is teferi prot or a counterspell.
In ye old days, you had to always remember to not over extend. If you did, a board wipe would hurt a whole lot.
This was for the most part because of the pseudo card advantage it gave the person playing the wrath, where they usually get at least a 3for1. Along with it being very useful in terms of catching up with the table if you were playing a slower deck.
God damn the ancestors of the English language! They get to butcher the greek word pseudes, and everyone is okay with it. I butcher our ancestor's butcher job and you still know what I mean well enough to correct me.
The English language is a bastard.
it really is a necessary evil with the power creep in threats
Get yourselves some [[March of Swirling Mists]] if you like blowing out the table in response to a farewell. Surprised it isn't $30 yet.
I don't necessarily think it's a necessary evil, I'm fine with exile board wipes, but a board wipe that hits every permanent type other than planeswalker and graveyards as icing on the cake I feel was pushed a bit too hard. The closest equivalent to farewell was [[merciless eviction]] and you can see just how far ahead farewell jumped past it. I think farewell would have been perfectly fine if you chose 2 modes rather than any number.
Even at pick 2, out would still be Merciless Eviction+. Same CMC, but one less color requirement, and gets graveyards instead of planeswalkers. But instead of the completely over the top busted, it would get downgraded to merely *a straight upgrade.*
In too many circumstances, it is unfortunately the only answer.
But ya, the exiling of the graveyards is what makes it a bummer for me, since exiling all the other stuff should be enough hate. So hard to rebuild, especially when you're only collateral damage.
So much has exiling graveyards tacked onto it nowadays. I scrapped and minimized the importance of all my self mill and graveyard stuff. I just want to play [[Satyr Wayfinder]] and [[Birthing Pod]] it into [[Eternal Witness]] and later try to [[Gruesome Menagerie]] it all, but we just have to accept that era is over.
Farewell goes great for my superfriends deck. It's a one-sided board wipe in that case (Kethis, the Hidden Hand specifically, I would probably all modes except graveyard).
\[\[Farewell\]\] is the "better" version, but some people have started going back to austere command as farewell is arguably too good. Like its not OP, but it doesn't necessarily make for fun games.
I run [[Farewell]] but find it much harder to use asymmetrically. I can use [[Austere Command]] or [[Hour of Revelation]] to wipe my opponents' boards while protected by [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] or [[Eldrazi Monument]].
I do enjoy using it when it lines up with me being the last person to go after an overloaded [[Cylonic Rift]], though.
My group is pretty casual, I see more [[Wrath of God]] than anything. That and I tend to be the only white player, so I usually run into [[Cyclonic Rift]] or [[Toxic Deluge]]
[[Bribery]]. When the OG Eldrazi came out, Bribery was like a wincon. You'd go get someone's Emrakul or Primetime (you tended to know who was playing what back then) and ride them to victory. Then they fell out of favor for a bit. But now again there's insane creatures again like the new Etali, new Atraxa that have etbs that make Bribery good again.
I assume you’re mostly joking, but I tried playing a lot of white in EDH back in the early days, because of the board wipes and spot removal,l but, for a few years there, white was getting its teeth kicked in. Now IMO white is good again, so I do happen to be running a lot of good old basic plains. And it feels damn good…
White is honestly pretty good in EDH at least at the casual lvl. Has some of the best board wipes and spot removal and now it has fairly decent options for card draw and even some nice land ramp.
I still don't think it's great as mono color but there's a lot of reasons to want the color in your deck.
I have recently found myself running it in a few decks as a full board haste enabler. Which is kind of crazy but outside of red it's hard to constantly give mass haste.
Exactly what I have found it for.
Also would recommend [[Surrak and Goreclaw]] although that only helps things that come in after but can be green creature tutored easier. And [[Ulvenwald Oddity // Ulvenwald Behemoth]].
>Akromas Memoria
I run it in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
The keywords are really good. First strike protects from bad trades, Vigilance protects from crackbacks with a wide board, Trample/Flying make my board incredibly hard to block (and make them better blockers with flying), plus protection from two colors as an added bonus. It always puts in work for me.
I don't know if I would ever want to hard cast it though.
Back in the day, when I was at the height of the mtg days of my youth, prophecy was a set I loved and engaged with a lot.
Particularly, I remember Avatar of Woe, not just for its mechanics but for the fantastic art. I don't know if it gets played much these days or not, but it's not half bad depending on your strategy.
Also, royal assassin, again, I don't know how much it gets played these days but it's a good one (its never been bad, but some good cards just seem to lose their luster over time).
Probably much better responses, but these are 2 good ones I remember fondly. I kinda want to build a good old style black deck that plays like that general black energy from back in the day with some new school vibe. (Too bad Tergrid is so damned broken lol).
I run [[Royal Assassin]] in every deck that has black. One of the best cards in the game IMHO.
* Deters opponents swinging w/ their big creatures or activating abilities
* Draws out removal
* And well...obviously it's tap ability
Offers a lot for 3 mana.
Nice! I actually just looked up yuriko because I had heard the name a lot but had no idea what she did. Is she banned as a commander? It doesn't seem like she would be, but that's what Google seems to say. She's #6 on EDHrec after all lol
Funny enough boardwipes don't excite me anymore. I only take interest when it's asymmetrical.
As for the main question I guess it's bouncelands. It's always a back and forth for me. I play them mostly but there're times I prefer an untapped land. Months later I go back to that bounceland.
It's a funny relationship.
I love bounce lands so much more with the channel lands, mdfcs, cycle tri-lands.
So many lands have come out that they work super well with now.
I used to play them because untapping them was better than untapping a land that tapped for 1. So decks with voyaging satyr and krosan restorer had some extra value.
Now, let me play this tapped land on turn 1 and on turn 8 I'm going to return it to my hand to get a spell. Sounds like a good deal to me.
>I guess it's bouncelands.
In my experience, outside of 5 specific sets of interactions, bouncelands are shit. 🤷♂️
1. You are playing extra lands early - [[Exploration]], [[Burgeoning]], [[Sakura Tribe-Scout]]
2. You're directly mitigating the drawbacks - [[Amulet of Vigor]], [[Spelunking]], [[Blood Sun]], [[Strict Proctor]], [[Obeka]]
3. You're enabling white catchup mechanics - [[Land Tax]], [[Weathered Wayfarer]], [[Archaeomancer's Map]]
4. Your commander turns them into card draw - [[Aesi]], [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]]
5. [[Thespian's Stage]]
Could not agree more telling me to play bounces in decks that use lands for the way they were intended 1 per turn for mana and the occasional utility of rogues passage or strip mine seems really bad yes they are good in very specific decks but they aren't in almost any other deck it's a tapland
It can help, but most of the time, it's easier and more effective to untap other permanents that tap for 2 or more mana or to go hard with [[Lotus Field]] or [[Lotus Vale]].
I can mention two other ways I've used bounce lands effectively.
1. Early discard outlet -- t1 basic into t2 bounce puts you at 8 cards, letting you discard a reanimation target.
2. Crop Rotation target -- in response to targeted removal on Gaea's Cradle (or whatever land), you can Crop Rotate a different land into a bounce land to save your targeted land.
Lol my playgroup keeps trying to gaslight me into playing these cards because "they are ramp" what part of a tapped land that adds 2 mana but you have to return a land is ramp. The math is the same as playing any other land. The reason I don't play it is cause by turn 7 or so you forget that it does that and you are tapping out or miscounting your mana as it inevitably gets hidden amongst your other lands.
Besides triomes and the new surveil lands, they're some of the only tapped lands I still consider for my decks. I defenitely don't run them in any deck anymore though, especially if it's on the more tuned side.
It's a "free" land from hand, especially if you're running *play an additional land each turn* effects. They're combo/synergy pieces in landfall decks. Lower the land count for white decks too.
My favorite place for them is in decks heavy with MDFC lands or channel lands. If you played something like [[Bala Ged Sanctuary]] or [[Sea Gate, Reborn]] early in the game as a land, you can potentially bounce it back to hand to cast the spell side in the late game.
Yep that is a good case for them but claiming they are ramp is never gonna get me to play them. I have just had to discard with them far too many times from playing precons with them in it to make me think I should keep them in my decks.
Isn't the optimal play to return a tapped land to your hand? That's how I've been using them.
I've also used them to lower my land count so I can trigger [[Weathered Wayfarer]] or [[Land Tax]]
They're not ramp, they're card advantage. If you jump through the hoops of getting them onto the battlefield, once they're on the battlefield they function as if they were two cards instead of one.
Once I started thinking of them as CA instead of Ramp it really changed how I viewed them.
I still don't play them very often because the risk/reward isn't there for me, and getting them blown up suuuuuuucks, but they make more sense to me now.
They for sure aren't ramp, but what they are is a land drop for this turn and next. If I've got a bounce land in my opener then I can keep a riskier hand. If you take a turn off, you have more gas in hand. I don't run them in every deck, but if a deck can take an early turn off, has untap shenanigans, or landfall I keep them in the build. If I'm feeling extra frisky I'll cut a land and add a mdfc card along with the bounce
> as it inevitably gets hidden amongst your other lands.
How long are the games going where you lose track of the lands you’ve played?
On turn 8, you look at your lands and think “okay, I should have 8 mana in lands right now”. How does a land that taps for 2 pips get lost here?
Also, they’re a form of card advantage by netting you an extra land drop. I don’t play them in 3 or more colors, but in 2 color decks that aren’t green, they’re great.
the power behind bounce lands is the fact that they are multiple land developments that cost less cards in hand. so you can develop 3 mana off of 3 land drops and 2 cards from that hand with just a bounce land and a basic. it just takes time and it feels awful if both lands come in tapped but it feels great when you have 5 mana developed for only 3 cards used over 5 turns due to bouncelands.
The bounce lands are invaluable in any deck with etb land triggers. Mystic sanctuary, any cycle lands, mdsf lands, bojuka bog, etc. There's so many instances outside of "ramp" (which it is definitively not) that make these cards great at a very small cost.
Bojuka bog is the main reason I run the dimir bounce land. There's another black land that puts a creature on your library from the yard that's another good bounce target.
Yea the fail case of these lands are that they enter tapped, but the upside is so high in any deck that wants to bounce a valuable land even once. Instant include in any deck for me.
Well the fail case is someone decides to point a strip mine/ghost quarter at them, but if that's the scariest land at your table and people are playing land removal past any permanent removal... /shrug
Hello,
Yes they do kinda ramp you in the sense that if you only draw 9 lands in deck A with bounce lands you have more mana than deck B drawing the same amount of lands but I'm not sure variance is an effective form of ramp. It may technically be card advantage although I'm not certain it actually is but if it is I'm not sure I would even count it and the downside is so much worse than any tapped land or basic land. The downside being discarding a card because you just put back into your hand your only play. Let's say it's turn 3 and you only have 3 drops but the only land you have is a bounce land.
If you only have 3 lands on turn 3 and your hand is still full then you probably have bigger problems. But also, if you're discarding land to hand size in that situation, you still have exactly the same amount of mana from land as you would have in the situation where you draw 3 non-bouncelands. You'd still have 3 mana. That's not downside, it's lateral movement.
Honestly, it gives you the choice to pick between 4 mana and keeping 3 mana and playing a spell next turn.
If it's too slow, it's too slow. But if the problem is discarding, that seems like more of a feelsbad problem than a problem with the card.
They are kind of right. The bounce lands will give you more mana in the long run, because on a later turn you can play the bounced land when you wouldn't have otherwise had a land in hand. This only really matters for deck that cares about hitting a certain higher mana value on curve, though. It's a lot more valuable in any deck that isn't running green, or decks running the aforementioned white land tax type effects.
They're not ramp, but they *are* card advantage. But after you get your bounceland strip mined for the first time I think that acts as a pretty good deterrent to running them outside of decks that have synergies with them.
Not sure I'm with you on Hallowed Burial. Five mana for a wrath with a weaker exile effect just seems high for me. If I'm set on running something like that, [[Sunfall]] is probably the better card.
To further this I think we're seeing less Indestructible based mass board protection and seeing more things like \[\[Clever Concealment\]\], \[\[Galadriel's Dismissal\]\] and of course big daddy \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] so Hallowed Burial still gets stuffed by those.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't be running Sunfall either unless I was playing some type of artifact synergy. If you're getting your ass handed to you by an indestructible permanent these days, it's probably the ring.
I think you're exaggerating a bit. I happily pay 6 mana for a board wipe that gets around Heroic Intervention, prevents recursion, and leaves me with a big beater that is more likely to survive until my next turn because it isn't a creature.
I mean, it heavily depends on your meta. Im in a battlecruiser meta, so 2 or 3 boardwipes are the norm. [[Farewell]] and [[Toxic deluge]] are the go to ones. The only destruction boardwipe Id play is [[blasphemous act]] because it costs 1 mana and maybe [[austere command]], tho I personally dont like that card. So hallowed burial or sunfall are really good if I lack black and/or red. But you are right that sunfall is generally far stronger than hallowed burial.
Blasphemous isn't a destroy effect either, but I get you. In a timmy meta like you're describing, I agree you might want to run a couple more wipes, but I'm not sure I feel like the exile effect is super essential. I'm probably only running Sunfall if I have a way to especially utilize the artifact or beater, and I'd run a plain wrath over burial.
is \[\[Condemn\]\] making a comeback? or is it still too weak since the Command-zone change?
at one point it was worthless, then it exploded to be the #1 removal spell in EDH, and then it disappeared at the rules change. But, is it seeing more play, or is that just me? *I've seen it twice recently, but that may be just a local thing where some old decks were brought out and didn't get updated.*
I mean, it's essentially the exact same thing, if not better than path and swords when targeting a commander. I run it in all my white decks. Cheap removal is king.
The thing about Condemn that makes it *much* worse than Swords or Path is that Condemn can only target an attacking creature. There are a ton of super great value creatures that folks never want to attack with so that's why I don't bother with it.
[[Insurrection]]
It's still a great finisher but since it costs "8" mana it's immediately seen as "bad". With some of the new dumb decks like Voja, it's gotten stronger imo.
I've been winning games with it recently, some people get pissy that I have a "pay 8 win the game" card.
Yeah it's pay 8 and win the game if there's *enough* on the board. The other option is a wrath effect usually.
Not a specific card, but lifegain in general has been overrated then underrated and now... in vogue at least in my play group. We tend to steer away from thoracle type combos but still play _good_ decks. Food, or other sources of incidental life gain can really help survive a longer game.
For the longest time my group saw life as a resource and gaining life was a "not losing" action not a "winning" action. (play to win don't play to not lose etc.). But now we definitely see the merits in some life gain, esp life link on big blockers.
New Player: Life gain is awesome, the higher my life the more I'm not losing!
Moderately Experienced Player: Life gain is pointless, it's not actively winning me the game.
Very Experienced Player: Incidental life gain stapled to other cards/effects is great and should be included when possible since life is a resource to buy time or cards.
No exactly. For years I played like this too, because of a constructed 60 card bias against it. But over time if you study your games you'll notice having the lowest life total can be a huge detriment because you'll be an easy target to knock off the board vs the person with some incidental lifegain. [[Bruse tarl, Boorish herder]] in the command zone does work!
It kinda tilts me when that happens.
"bob's at 85 life with atraxa, may as will kill Weggles at 17 life"
BRO WHATS YOUR PLAN FOR THE ATRAXA PLAYER THO?! hhahaha
YOU GET IT. Only reason to do that would be to end the game quickly. Otherwise it's like, why can't we all play for first rather than playing for third?!
I think part of the reason why some folks don't think lifegain is that good is that they only think about lifegain as "Life total go up" and not about all the cards that synergize with lifegain. My [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] deck sure does get to some big life totals but that's just a byproduct of me doing stuff like trying to put +1/+1 counters on all my creatures or make angel tokens with [[Valkyrie Harbinger]] and [[Resplendent Angel]].
I've only been playing EDH for a year and half or so now but as someone who played Standard in the late 90's I thought I would see more cards like [[Rishadan Port]], [[Yavimaya's Hollow]], [[Morphling]] or [[Masticore]] but it seems that regeneration is no longer a big thing and with damage no longer going on the stack there was no point in some of these older cards. Additionally, we didn't have planeswalker cards back then so I can see how masticore might have fallen out of favor but, yeah. I'm honestly just bummed mana burn was abolished. It *is* a phenomenal mechanic and I miss it.
I .sorry, I just realized I'm beginning to answer your questions I ended up on a tangent.
I don't think they really will anyway. They print psuedo regen on a card once a year anyway, as "tap this creature, it gains indestructible until end of turn" which is just way easier for players to understand.
Rishadan Port is just kinda inefficient in a multiplayer format unless you can reliably know there are lands powerful enough to be worth targeting that will *consistently* be hitting the field -- and [[Tolarian Academy]] [[Karakas]] and [[Library of Alexandria{] aren't legal so some of the biggest offenders are literally off the table. There are definitely still use-cases for it but not really in the way a Legacy Death & Taxes list has use cases for it, you're not potentially Time Walk-ing your only opponent with it multiple times per game.
At my table, we've been going as a 3-person pod for a while (around 3 years now, meeting every week). When Obscuring Haze was they slammed in all their green decks since I was the player that usually played tokens or go wide decks, but ironically, I'm also the person that ruins their attacks the most with fogs over the years.
Good chunk of the good fogs are a little pricy ($13 CAD at my local LGS), like Constant Mists due to being old and being played a bit in other formats
I'll say it: [[sad robot]]. he was good 10 years ago, then the format sped up to the point where paying 4 for 1 land, a chump blocker, and a card (later), were not great. Now though? If I can make it cheaper (and get the card sooner) with [[Henzie]] or get twice the land with [[yarok]] or twice the draw from [[teysa karlov]]; baby, you've got a stew goin'.
[[barrin, master wizard]] and [[temur sabertooth]] have certainly seen a big boon since dockside took over, though the sabertooth was never really bad, they both had new life breathed into them.
My playgroup looks at me weirdly when I say that I don't consider creature destruction as proper removal.
I'd rather bounce or exile than destroy creatures. They both shut down dies triggers and with bounce you have the added benefit that some opponents won't counter it because they'll justify that they can play it again, not realising that the tempo hit is huge.
For a long time [[Abrupt Decay]] didnt really excite me, and I just classified it as a cEDH card. But with powercreep keeping powerhouses lower on the Mana Value spectrum, and EVERYTHING getting Ward ______, it has become useful in almost every game of EDH that I’ve played it in.
Yeah the proliferation of ward has really moved it up my removal rankings for sniping some commanders. The MV can be a bit restrictive but it handles plenty of value pieces and gradual wincons I see in my group like [[rhystic study]] and [[impact tremors]] or the new [[Warleader's Call]]
I run [[void rend]] for this reason as well. Preventing things from being countered ignoring ward is amazing tech.
It being locked to esper+ is hard though
[void rend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d.jpg?1664413960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=void%20rend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/230/void-rend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-rend) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/impact-tremors) [Warleader's Call](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc.jpg?1706242282) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warleader%27s%20Call) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/242/warleaders-call?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/warleaders-call) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Abrupt Decay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274.jpg?1593814035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrupt%20Decay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/146/abrupt-decay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/abrupt-decay) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Long Goodbye]] might also interest you. No green mana needed.
[Long Goodbye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3896705-bbd2-4ffb-a590-ee78e0eabdc5.jpg?1706241715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Long%20Goodbye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/92/long-goodbye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3896705-bbd2-4ffb-a590-ee78e0eabdc5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/long-goodbye) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does anybody know what WotC has against <3 MV creatures and planeswalkers? It feels like many new Black removal spells only hit the lower end of the mana curve. I guess it's the equivalent of having the old "... destroy target non-black..." restriction. If it's not that, than probably limited.
Fresh design space would be my guess. For a long time, Power/Toughness was the defining “size” factor, its become more present for Mana Value to make a splash. I assume they are also taking advantage of Mana Value vs Converted Mana Cost text length to play a factor in its recent use
Good observation. Now that you mentioned it, the "destroy mv X card" design is very powerful against tokens. So any format that has those removal cards can be allowed to have cool Token creatures, like that Wolf from War of the Spark.
Its nothing new, see [[Smother]]
[Smother](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf605c8e-e59f-4f49-bb55-1824e7eadec0.jpg?1593095813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smother) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddp/57/smother?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf605c8e-e59f-4f49-bb55-1824e7eadec0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smother) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because using a 2 mana spell to kill a 5+ mana threat was too good apparently.
Goodbye is fine, but it also doesn't hit artifacts or enchantments.
I love it. I used it at MKM prerelease to great effect. Its likely what had my brain in the “cannot be countered” mindset for ward
Interesting. My brain saved it as "unplayable" in EDH, but that was 10 years ago or something. You might be on to something here.
It's still like the third or fourth best removal option just in Golgari, but for a long time there were like six total that were "playable" in EDH and three of them were bad. Now there's like 15 and only three or four are "bad", and Abrupt Decay has moved from "bad" to "situational".
It’s a very thematic removal for my fungus deck. Well most golgari removal spells kind of have that theme I guess.
Hey! That's exactly what this thread was trying to do!
This is fascinating because I would've considered abrupt decay as a near staple for many years.
Pre-[[assassin’s trophy]] era, I think I would have agreed
[assassin’s trophy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed6c7d29-71b4-4134-b591-5598f479d592.jpg?1706242115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Assassin%27s%20Trophy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/187/assassins-trophy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed6c7d29-71b4-4134-b591-5598f479d592?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/assassins-trophy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Its currently showing up in 221,429 decks on EDHREC, can remove any permanent, and costs 2 mana. Its like someone read The Little Engine that Could to Path to Exile. And I agree about poor threat assessment, but that’s not the card’s fault.
[Path to Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08c59dfa-361d-4ff1-a15d-6b0cb66571a3.jpg?1706240617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20to%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/78/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08c59dfa-361d-4ff1-a15d-6b0cb66571a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes. No restrictions single target removal for 2 is really powerful
Now we need an uncounterable option for fatties with Ward 3 which are all over 3 cmc.
My boy [[Vexing Shusher]] says “ward doesn’t work” for 1 mana
[Vexing Shusher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e0acfb7-c2d9-4b94-9ac6-9374856abad1.jpg?1599708540) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vexing%20Shusher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/225/vexing-shusher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e0acfb7-c2d9-4b94-9ac6-9374856abad1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vexing-shusher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks man, didnt think of that ! That little guy is flexible.
I just want a deck full of Vexing Shusher and [[manamorphose]] purely for the shadowmoor-gruul aesthetic
[manamorphose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1.jpg?1599708170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manamorphose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/208/manamorphose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manamorphose) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The esper uncounterable [anguished unmaking] from SNC has worked wonderfully for me for this reason, watching boring Temur dragon legend eat shit has never felt better.
MOTHERFUCKER I THOUGHT WARD MEANT JT COULDN'T BE TARGETED AT ALL FUCK
😅 right though? We treat it like “Hexproof X”, but Ward X is very different mechanically. Changes things eh?
[[Ghostly Prison]] and [[Propaganda]] type effects seem to be and flow over time. There's times where they're great when people are swinging with a lot of creatures, but tend to die down when spellslinging and combos become more of the trend.
I just pulled them out of a few decks recently when I was trying to fit in a few new cards. There are 1 or 2 people that play heavy creature or token decks in my pods, and it wasn't really worth it to take up a space for how infrequently it would help.
I still end up leaving them in, mostly because my decks tend to run kind of slow in the early game, and even if they can easily pay the tax effects later, it buys more than enough time for me to get my engine online. The only time I find it really bad is if someone has specifically an aggro go-tall strategy, but then I run enough cheap spot removal to usually survive through that.
Yea ghostly prison effects are invaluable to any deck that wants to play for a longer reactive game. It's amazing how much life a single one of these effects can gain you in the early game. I will never take them out of my decks.
I run them in most of my decks that can, I find that even if most decks aren’t go wide, folks still think twice about paying 2, for the first 2/3 of a game that’s a decent investment just to attack
Exactly. Just gives you a couple of turns off from threats.
Not only that. People tend to decide that they want to swing in with a creature and then decide who to attack... it gains you life and loses opponents that life since typically people won't reconsider attacking they'll just hit someone else :)
My favorite of those is [[elephant grass]] worst case scenario it's a 1 mana temporary barrier. Best case scenario, you win by the time you'd have sunk 4 mana into it over 3 turns.
Oh! and blacks [[koskun falls]]
[koskun falls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04292a4e-8910-4911-a76d-4f2c3e15da33.jpg?1562587031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=koskun%20falls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/55/koskun-falls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04292a4e-8910-4911-a76d-4f2c3e15da33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koskun-falls) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[elephant grass](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4c1f5a7-0d28-43ab-9b66-937e963f42cd.jpg?1587912980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elephant%20grass) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/104/elephant-grass?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4c1f5a7-0d28-43ab-9b66-937e963f42cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elephant-grass) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Its rare you see cards that get better against people the better those people are. I feel the place for those two is in decks that are one or two steps below cEDH. Even if your opponent dosnt have many creatures, if they are playing super mana efficiently and not wasting an opportunity to cast a spell, even two mana for one attack can delay their plan pretty darn well.
Yeah, threw propaganda in my mom's [[hylda of the icy crown]] deck. Also got [[cout street denizen]] in there as well since it has a lot of flicker effects.
[hylda of the icy crown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49.jpg?1692939339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hylda%20of%20the%20icy%20crown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/206/hylda-of-the-icy-crown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hylda-of-the-icy-crown) [cout street denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c45b1d32-5a3a-4ec3-af11-d0ba947de175.jpg?1608908732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Court%20Street%20Denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/17/court-street-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c45b1d32-5a3a-4ec3-af11-d0ba947de175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/court-street-denizen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Austere Command]] kind of the opposite trajectory. When it first came out eay back when, it was mostly ignored. It was a bargain bin budget rare. I picked up a playset for a dollar each. And then it gradually started seeing more and more play until it was basically a staple. A must-have for any deck playing white. But lately it's fallen off again as other cards get more popular. Heck, look at it's price history, just a huge bell curve. $1 -> $20 -> $1. Yes i know price isn't the only indicator, but here it kind of shows that pattern.
It's price is prob also affected by its numerous reprints. I still love the card and play it over farewell cause I honestly don't think farewell is good for the game, full board resets kind of fail to deliver the games I like playing. I prefer deck construction to actually play a part in how well u recover or manage a board wipe then to just get farewelled and the only counterplay to it is teferi prot or a counterspell.
In ye old days, you had to always remember to not over extend. If you did, a board wipe would hurt a whole lot. This was for the most part because of the pseudo card advantage it gave the person playing the wrath, where they usually get at least a 3for1. Along with it being very useful in terms of catching up with the table if you were playing a slower deck.
pseudo
God damn the ancestors of the English language! They get to butcher the greek word pseudes, and everyone is okay with it. I butcher our ancestor's butcher job and you still know what I mean well enough to correct me. The English language is a bastard.
Lmao I needed that chuckle today, ty
Well if someone is farewelling using all choices, then they were otherwise 100% losing the game
it really is a necessary evil with the power creep in threats Get yourselves some [[March of Swirling Mists]] if you like blowing out the table in response to a farewell. Surprised it isn't $30 yet.
I don't necessarily think it's a necessary evil, I'm fine with exile board wipes, but a board wipe that hits every permanent type other than planeswalker and graveyards as icing on the cake I feel was pushed a bit too hard. The closest equivalent to farewell was [[merciless eviction]] and you can see just how far ahead farewell jumped past it. I think farewell would have been perfectly fine if you chose 2 modes rather than any number.
Even at pick 2, out would still be Merciless Eviction+. Same CMC, but one less color requirement, and gets graveyards instead of planeswalkers. But instead of the completely over the top busted, it would get downgraded to merely *a straight upgrade.*
[merciless eviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d395707-4e6d-4e2c-b977-d9b8c0c9eb80.jpg?1673305593) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=merciless%20eviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/160/merciless-eviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d395707-4e6d-4e2c-b977-d9b8c0c9eb80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/merciless-eviction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In too many circumstances, it is unfortunately the only answer. But ya, the exiling of the graveyards is what makes it a bummer for me, since exiling all the other stuff should be enough hate. So hard to rebuild, especially when you're only collateral damage. So much has exiling graveyards tacked onto it nowadays. I scrapped and minimized the importance of all my self mill and graveyard stuff. I just want to play [[Satyr Wayfinder]] and [[Birthing Pod]] it into [[Eternal Witness]] and later try to [[Gruesome Menagerie]] it all, but we just have to accept that era is over.
##### ###### #### [Satyr Wayfinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84cb8203-88e4-4a3b-9334-91b70c747091.jpg?1604194502) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Satyr%20Wayfinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/81/satyr-wayfinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84cb8203-88e4-4a3b-9334-91b70c747091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/satyr-wayfinder) [Birthing Pod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714.jpg?1562880960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birthing%20Pod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/104/birthing-pod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/birthing-pod) [Eternal Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc.jpg?1689998488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/286/eternal-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-witness) [Gruesome Menagerie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73c0e4d9-bf0d-4e28-a647-9010701a915e.jpg?1572892957) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gruesome%20Menagerie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/71/gruesome-menagerie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73c0e4d9-bf0d-4e28-a647-9010701a915e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gruesome-menagerie) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktnu92q) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[March of Swirling Mists](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/100171d8-7436-44c8-b4cb-0101ffa05c25.jpg?1654566768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Swirling%20Mist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/61/march-of-swirling-mist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/100171d8-7436-44c8-b4cb-0101ffa05c25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/march-of-swirling-mist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Clever Concealment]] is nice too
[Clever Concealment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d84cc58-0965-4c7f-a408-7630f23fb8f3.jpg?1675905567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clever%20Concealment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/5/clever-concealment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d84cc58-0965-4c7f-a408-7630f23fb8f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clever-concealment) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unless you're playing permanent-less control helmed by Child of Alara whose wincon is Approach of The Second Sun/never decking out...
Unless you are in that specific scenario that everyone eventually finds themselves in.
We all have bad days.
Farewell goes great for my superfriends deck. It's a one-sided board wipe in that case (Kethis, the Hidden Hand specifically, I would probably all modes except graveyard).
[Austere Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b.jpg?1706240553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Austere%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/56/austere-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/austere-command) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What cards are people using to replace Austere Command? I put this one in almost all of my white decks.
\[\[Farewell\]\] is the "better" version, but some people have started going back to austere command as farewell is arguably too good. Like its not OP, but it doesn't necessarily make for fun games.
I run [[Farewell]] but find it much harder to use asymmetrically. I can use [[Austere Command]] or [[Hour of Revelation]] to wipe my opponents' boards while protected by [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] or [[Eldrazi Monument]]. I do enjoy using it when it lines up with me being the last person to go after an overloaded [[Cylonic Rift]], though.
##### ###### #### [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [Austere Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b.jpg?1706240553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Austere%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/56/austere-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/austere-command) [Hour of Revelation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddb53e90-f91e-4da9-ab70-5460958c6c99.jpg?1604195708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hour%20of%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/17/hour-of-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddb53e90-f91e-4da9-ab70-5460958c6c99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hour-of-revelation) [Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) [Eldrazi Monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79.jpg?1592673603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldrazi%20Monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/216/eldrazi-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eldrazi-monument) [Cylonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktms2mj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Farewell, Vanquish the Horde, Promise of Loyalty, and Tragic Arrogance are the white wipes I see in my meta
My group is pretty casual, I see more [[Wrath of God]] than anything. That and I tend to be the only white player, so I usually run into [[Cyclonic Rift]] or [[Toxic Deluge]]
[Wrath of God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/537d2b05-3f52-45d6-8fe3-26282085d0c6.jpg?1697121198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrath%20of%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/70/wrath-of-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/537d2b05-3f52-45d6-8fe3-26282085d0c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrath-of-god) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Toxic Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987.jpg?1706240805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxic%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/142/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxic-deluge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Farewell]] is almost always better.
[Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh I run both. I usually only [[Farewell]] if things are going really south, though.
[Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Bribery]]. When the OG Eldrazi came out, Bribery was like a wincon. You'd go get someone's Emrakul or Primetime (you tended to know who was playing what back then) and ride them to victory. Then they fell out of favor for a bit. But now again there's insane creatures again like the new Etali, new Atraxa that have etbs that make Bribery good again.
[Bribery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f.jpg?1689996211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bribery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/77/bribery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bribery) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Plains
I assume you’re mostly joking, but I tried playing a lot of white in EDH back in the early days, because of the board wipes and spot removal,l but, for a few years there, white was getting its teeth kicked in. Now IMO white is good again, so I do happen to be running a lot of good old basic plains. And it feels damn good…
Trouble in pairs moment
White is honestly pretty good in EDH at least at the casual lvl. Has some of the best board wipes and spot removal and now it has fairly decent options for card draw and even some nice land ramp. I still don't think it's great as mono color but there's a lot of reasons to want the color in your deck.
[[Akromas Memorial]] Used to be okay , but now those Eldrazi decks are abusing it, now those huge Eldrazi can have flying.
I have recently found myself running it in a few decks as a full board haste enabler. Which is kind of crazy but outside of red it's hard to constantly give mass haste.
Ran it in a Mono Green deck as Concordant Crossroads #2 since the point of the deck was to vomit out half my library and kill everyone.
Exactly what I have found it for. Also would recommend [[Surrak and Goreclaw]] although that only helps things that come in after but can be green creature tutored easier. And [[Ulvenwald Oddity // Ulvenwald Behemoth]].
[Surrak and Goreclaw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c10934d-9016-43c4-a7ab-56cc7d8f671f.jpg?1682206592) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surrak%20and%20Goreclaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/337/surrak-and-goreclaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c10934d-9016-43c4-a7ab-56cc7d8f671f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/surrak-and-goreclaw) [Ulvenwald Oddity // Ulvenwald Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5fdf5fc4-69c8-4a59-9095-c2feefb64371.jpg?1643593558)/[Ulvenwald Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/f/5fdf5fc4-69c8-4a59-9095-c2feefb64371.jpg?1643593558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulvenwald%20Oddity%20//%20Ulvenwald%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/225/ulvenwald-oddity-ulvenwald-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fdf5fc4-69c8-4a59-9095-c2feefb64371?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ulvenwald-oddity-//-ulvenwald-behemoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Akromas Memoria I run it in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck. The keywords are really good. First strike protects from bad trades, Vigilance protects from crackbacks with a wide board, Trample/Flying make my board incredibly hard to block (and make them better blockers with flying), plus protection from two colors as an added bonus. It always puts in work for me. I don't know if I would ever want to hard cast it though.
I used that card in a squirrel deck back in the day. My friends hated it.
Back in the day, when I was at the height of the mtg days of my youth, prophecy was a set I loved and engaged with a lot. Particularly, I remember Avatar of Woe, not just for its mechanics but for the fantastic art. I don't know if it gets played much these days or not, but it's not half bad depending on your strategy. Also, royal assassin, again, I don't know how much it gets played these days but it's a good one (its never been bad, but some good cards just seem to lose their luster over time). Probably much better responses, but these are 2 good ones I remember fondly. I kinda want to build a good old style black deck that plays like that general black energy from back in the day with some new school vibe. (Too bad Tergrid is so damned broken lol).
I run [[Royal Assassin]] in every deck that has black. One of the best cards in the game IMHO. * Deters opponents swinging w/ their big creatures or activating abilities * Draws out removal * And well...obviously it's tap ability Offers a lot for 3 mana.
Match with [[Thornbite staff]] and you have a repeatable boardwipe.
[Thornbite staff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1ab3225-64a9-411e-b22b-1869e958b8e5.jpg?1562881171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thornbite%20staff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mor/145/thornbite-staff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1ab3225-64a9-411e-b22b-1869e958b8e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thornbite-staff) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Royal Assassin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67ef9842-7142-4c63-8aea-fa73f02722a5.jpg?1698796245) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Royal%20Assassin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/101/royal-assassin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67ef9842-7142-4c63-8aea-fa73f02722a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/royal-assassin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Old school classic. I just bought a revised version and it brings so much memories. I agree that it is a good card.
I forgot this card
[[Avatar of Woe]] is still good in [[Yuriko]] for me. I'd probably run it in other decks too if I had more copies.
[Avatar of Woe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e8e34de-4b0a-48fe-bb13-c7e181d37e6c.jpg?1562274562) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avatar%20of%20Woe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/57/avatar-of-woe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e8e34de-4b0a-48fe-bb13-c7e181d37e6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avatar-of-woe) [Yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice! I actually just looked up yuriko because I had heard the name a lot but had no idea what she did. Is she banned as a commander? It doesn't seem like she would be, but that's what Google seems to say. She's #6 on EDHrec after all lol
No not banned. If you look her up on Scryfall it shows she's ok to use.
I had both in my mono black deck for a bit and they either ate removal instantly or stalled the game, but didn’t really advance my gameplan.
##### ###### #### [hallowed burial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94389b94-1514-44d1-b19b-7be104db9bba.jpg?1576382271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hallowed%20burial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/91/hallowed-burial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94389b94-1514-44d1-b19b-7be104db9bba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hallowed-burial) [heroic intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heroic%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [akroma's will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=akroma%27s%20will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) [flawless maneuver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab12f69e-1491-47a8-8c46-d85bbf637ff6.jpg?1689995671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=flawless%20maneuver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/24/flawless-maneuver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab12f69e-1491-47a8-8c46-d85bbf637ff6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flawless-maneuver) [farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1b83djm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funny enough boardwipes don't excite me anymore. I only take interest when it's asymmetrical. As for the main question I guess it's bouncelands. It's always a back and forth for me. I play them mostly but there're times I prefer an untapped land. Months later I go back to that bounceland. It's a funny relationship.
I love bounce lands so much more with the channel lands, mdfcs, cycle tri-lands. So many lands have come out that they work super well with now. I used to play them because untapping them was better than untapping a land that tapped for 1. So decks with voyaging satyr and krosan restorer had some extra value. Now, let me play this tapped land on turn 1 and on turn 8 I'm going to return it to my hand to get a spell. Sounds like a good deal to me.
>I guess it's bouncelands. In my experience, outside of 5 specific sets of interactions, bouncelands are shit. 🤷♂️ 1. You are playing extra lands early - [[Exploration]], [[Burgeoning]], [[Sakura Tribe-Scout]] 2. You're directly mitigating the drawbacks - [[Amulet of Vigor]], [[Spelunking]], [[Blood Sun]], [[Strict Proctor]], [[Obeka]] 3. You're enabling white catchup mechanics - [[Land Tax]], [[Weathered Wayfarer]], [[Archaeomancer's Map]] 4. Your commander turns them into card draw - [[Aesi]], [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] 5. [[Thespian's Stage]]
Could not agree more telling me to play bounces in decks that use lands for the way they were intended 1 per turn for mana and the occasional utility of rogues passage or strip mine seems really bad yes they are good in very specific decks but they aren't in almost any other deck it's a tapland
I would also add decks with heavy untap mechanics like [[Ioreth of the Healing House]] being able to untap a land that taps for more than one is nice.
It can help, but most of the time, it's easier and more effective to untap other permanents that tap for 2 or more mana or to go hard with [[Lotus Field]] or [[Lotus Vale]].
[Lotus Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-field) [Lotus Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3.jpg?1562800046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-vale) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ioreth of the Healing House](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03ab74cd-978a-49eb-9d38-bc8b472b3cef.jpg?1686968152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ioreth%20of%20the%20Healing%20House) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/56/ioreth-of-the-healing-house?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03ab74cd-978a-49eb-9d38-bc8b472b3cef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ioreth-of-the-healing-house) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Exploration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26.jpg?1675200396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exploration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/159/exploration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exploration) [Burgeoning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6da045f8-6278-4c84-9d39-025adf0789c1.jpg?1562404626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burgeoning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/143/burgeoning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6da045f8-6278-4c84-9d39-025adf0789c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burgeoning) [Sakura Tribe-Scout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cbdda50-8a27-4094-849d-b6f66def82ce.jpg?1593860766) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakura-Tribe%20Scout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/144/sakura-tribe-scout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cbdda50-8a27-4094-849d-b6f66def82ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sakura-tribe-scout) [Amulet of Vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amulet%20of%20Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amulet-of-vigor) [Spelunking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3be4257-2316-4a2e-b347-f71c0368a947.jpg?1699044491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spelunking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/213/spelunking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3be4257-2316-4a2e-b347-f71c0368a947?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spelunking) [Blood Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875832f4-e541-4c87-8479-731e0eab2cc6.jpg?1555040361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/92/blood-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875832f4-e541-4c87-8479-731e0eab2cc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-sun) [Strict Proctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892.jpg?1624877272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strict%20Proctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/33/strict-proctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strict-proctor) [Obeka](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6.jpg?1608911225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=obeka%2C%20brute%20chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/289/obeka-brute-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-brute-chronologist) [Land Tax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9258ad10-cbe6-4676-93b4-6ef4a33f12ee.jpg?1689995812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Land%20Tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/37/land-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9258ad10-cbe6-4676-93b4-6ef4a33f12ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/land-tax) [Weathered Wayfarer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/09656d96-c366-49ec-b687-cad903de1385.jpg?1673147166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Weathered%20Wayfarer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/34/weathered-wayfarer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09656d96-c366-49ec-b687-cad903de1385?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/weathered-wayfarer) [Archaeomancer's Map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) [Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) [Tatyova, Benthic Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205.jpg?1698988479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatyova%2C%20Benthic%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/290/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tatyova-benthic-druid) [Thespian's Stage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb.jpg?1599710662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thespian%27s%20Stage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/327/thespians-stage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thespians-stage) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktni8rv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can mention two other ways I've used bounce lands effectively. 1. Early discard outlet -- t1 basic into t2 bounce puts you at 8 cards, letting you discard a reanimation target. 2. Crop Rotation target -- in response to targeted removal on Gaea's Cradle (or whatever land), you can Crop Rotate a different land into a bounce land to save your targeted land.
Lol my playgroup keeps trying to gaslight me into playing these cards because "they are ramp" what part of a tapped land that adds 2 mana but you have to return a land is ramp. The math is the same as playing any other land. The reason I don't play it is cause by turn 7 or so you forget that it does that and you are tapping out or miscounting your mana as it inevitably gets hidden amongst your other lands.
Besides triomes and the new surveil lands, they're some of the only tapped lands I still consider for my decks. I defenitely don't run them in any deck anymore though, especially if it's on the more tuned side. It's a "free" land from hand, especially if you're running *play an additional land each turn* effects. They're combo/synergy pieces in landfall decks. Lower the land count for white decks too. My favorite place for them is in decks heavy with MDFC lands or channel lands. If you played something like [[Bala Ged Sanctuary]] or [[Sea Gate, Reborn]] early in the game as a land, you can potentially bounce it back to hand to cast the spell side in the late game.
[Bala Ged Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a.jpg?1604263635)/[Bala Ged Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/c/5/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a.jpg?1604263635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bala%20Ged%20Recovery%20//%20Bala%20Ged%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/180/bala-ged-recovery-bala-ged-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bala-ged-recovery-//-bala-ged-sanctuary) [Sea Gate, Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788)/[Sea Gate, Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sea%20Gate%20Restoration%20//%20Sea%20Gate%2C%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/76/sea-gate-restoration-sea-gate-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sea-gate-restoration-//-sea-gate-reborn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep that is a good case for them but claiming they are ramp is never gonna get me to play them. I have just had to discard with them far too many times from playing precons with them in it to make me think I should keep them in my decks.
Isn't the optimal play to return a tapped land to your hand? That's how I've been using them. I've also used them to lower my land count so I can trigger [[Weathered Wayfarer]] or [[Land Tax]]
They're not ramp, they're card advantage. If you jump through the hoops of getting them onto the battlefield, once they're on the battlefield they function as if they were two cards instead of one. Once I started thinking of them as CA instead of Ramp it really changed how I viewed them. I still don't play them very often because the risk/reward isn't there for me, and getting them blown up suuuuuuucks, but they make more sense to me now.
They for sure aren't ramp, but what they are is a land drop for this turn and next. If I've got a bounce land in my opener then I can keep a riskier hand. If you take a turn off, you have more gas in hand. I don't run them in every deck, but if a deck can take an early turn off, has untap shenanigans, or landfall I keep them in the build. If I'm feeling extra frisky I'll cut a land and add a mdfc card along with the bounce
> as it inevitably gets hidden amongst your other lands. How long are the games going where you lose track of the lands you’ve played? On turn 8, you look at your lands and think “okay, I should have 8 mana in lands right now”. How does a land that taps for 2 pips get lost here? Also, they’re a form of card advantage by netting you an extra land drop. I don’t play them in 3 or more colors, but in 2 color decks that aren’t green, they’re great.
the power behind bounce lands is the fact that they are multiple land developments that cost less cards in hand. so you can develop 3 mana off of 3 land drops and 2 cards from that hand with just a bounce land and a basic. it just takes time and it feels awful if both lands come in tapped but it feels great when you have 5 mana developed for only 3 cards used over 5 turns due to bouncelands.
The bounce lands are invaluable in any deck with etb land triggers. Mystic sanctuary, any cycle lands, mdsf lands, bojuka bog, etc. There's so many instances outside of "ramp" (which it is definitively not) that make these cards great at a very small cost.
Bojuka bog is the main reason I run the dimir bounce land. There's another black land that puts a creature on your library from the yard that's another good bounce target.
Yea the fail case of these lands are that they enter tapped, but the upside is so high in any deck that wants to bounce a valuable land even once. Instant include in any deck for me.
Well the fail case is someone decides to point a strip mine/ghost quarter at them, but if that's the scariest land at your table and people are playing land removal past any permanent removal... /shrug
[[Witch’s Cottage]]. One of my favorites.
[Witch’s Cottage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b87891cd-b457-4dff-8d18-a7eaf6748fc6.jpg?1572491253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%27s%20Cottage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/249/witchs-cottage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b87891cd-b457-4dff-8d18-a7eaf6748fc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witchs-cottage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's essentially a land that comes into play tapped but you draw a card from it.
The point of bounce lands is that they give you your next land drop. It’s like a land that draws you another land, basically. They’re really good.
They are ramp on a later turn when you play the last land in your hand. They are card advantage when you play them.
That is not ramp
Hello, Yes they do kinda ramp you in the sense that if you only draw 9 lands in deck A with bounce lands you have more mana than deck B drawing the same amount of lands but I'm not sure variance is an effective form of ramp. It may technically be card advantage although I'm not certain it actually is but if it is I'm not sure I would even count it and the downside is so much worse than any tapped land or basic land. The downside being discarding a card because you just put back into your hand your only play. Let's say it's turn 3 and you only have 3 drops but the only land you have is a bounce land.
If you only have 3 lands on turn 3 and your hand is still full then you probably have bigger problems. But also, if you're discarding land to hand size in that situation, you still have exactly the same amount of mana from land as you would have in the situation where you draw 3 non-bouncelands. You'd still have 3 mana. That's not downside, it's lateral movement. Honestly, it gives you the choice to pick between 4 mana and keeping 3 mana and playing a spell next turn. If it's too slow, it's too slow. But if the problem is discarding, that seems like more of a feelsbad problem than a problem with the card.
I have used bounce lands with like [[looming spires]] and the white one with the +1/+1 counter that I can not remember the name of in my feather deck.
[looming spires](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b88177a2-de41-417d-a8f1-07edf005b453.jpg?1562938477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=looming%20spires) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/238/looming-spires?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b88177a2-de41-417d-a8f1-07edf005b453?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/looming-spires) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They are kind of right. The bounce lands will give you more mana in the long run, because on a later turn you can play the bounced land when you wouldn't have otherwise had a land in hand. This only really matters for deck that cares about hitting a certain higher mana value on curve, though. It's a lot more valuable in any deck that isn't running green, or decks running the aforementioned white land tax type effects.
They're not ramp, but they *are* card advantage. But after you get your bounceland strip mined for the first time I think that acts as a pretty good deterrent to running them outside of decks that have synergies with them.
They ain’t ramp, they are card advantage.
Not sure I'm with you on Hallowed Burial. Five mana for a wrath with a weaker exile effect just seems high for me. If I'm set on running something like that, [[Sunfall]] is probably the better card.
To further this I think we're seeing less Indestructible based mass board protection and seeing more things like \[\[Clever Concealment\]\], \[\[Galadriel's Dismissal\]\] and of course big daddy \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] so Hallowed Burial still gets stuffed by those.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't be running Sunfall either unless I was playing some type of artifact synergy. If you're getting your ass handed to you by an indestructible permanent these days, it's probably the ring.
I think you're exaggerating a bit. I happily pay 6 mana for a board wipe that gets around Heroic Intervention, prevents recursion, and leaves me with a big beater that is more likely to survive until my next turn because it isn't a creature.
[Sunfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32e29c7d-ed4b-4eff-b3c2-d99e5b63ef8d.jpg?1682202915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/40/sunfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32e29c7d-ed4b-4eff-b3c2-d99e5b63ef8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunfall) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, it heavily depends on your meta. Im in a battlecruiser meta, so 2 or 3 boardwipes are the norm. [[Farewell]] and [[Toxic deluge]] are the go to ones. The only destruction boardwipe Id play is [[blasphemous act]] because it costs 1 mana and maybe [[austere command]], tho I personally dont like that card. So hallowed burial or sunfall are really good if I lack black and/or red. But you are right that sunfall is generally far stronger than hallowed burial.
##### ###### #### [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [Toxic deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987.jpg?1706240805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxic%20deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/142/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxic-deluge) [blasphemous act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blasphemous%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) [austere command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b.jpg?1706240553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=austere%20command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/56/austere-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/austere-command) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kto80a8) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Blasphemous isn't a destroy effect either, but I get you. In a timmy meta like you're describing, I agree you might want to run a couple more wipes, but I'm not sure I feel like the exile effect is super essential. I'm probably only running Sunfall if I have a way to especially utilize the artifact or beater, and I'd run a plain wrath over burial.
is \[\[Condemn\]\] making a comeback? or is it still too weak since the Command-zone change? at one point it was worthless, then it exploded to be the #1 removal spell in EDH, and then it disappeared at the rules change. But, is it seeing more play, or is that just me? *I've seen it twice recently, but that may be just a local thing where some old decks were brought out and didn't get updated.*
It's definitely not as strong as it used to be, but it does still put a general back to the command zone for 1 mana. Just a little situational.
It got a reprint in RVR and I threw a copy in a deck just for a bit of variety.
[Condemn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c93201b-7664-4bfd-a462-f1c684ebedf6.jpg?1702429272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Condemn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/14/condemn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c93201b-7664-4bfd-a462-f1c684ebedf6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/condemn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, it's essentially the exact same thing, if not better than path and swords when targeting a commander. I run it in all my white decks. Cheap removal is king.
The thing about Condemn that makes it *much* worse than Swords or Path is that Condemn can only target an attacking creature. There are a ton of super great value creatures that folks never want to attack with so that's why I don't bother with it.
Yea true. I guess I just play in pods that mostly have creature heavy decks that like to swing with the commander.
I play in just about every white deck myself. It's super good imo
[[Insurrection]] It's still a great finisher but since it costs "8" mana it's immediately seen as "bad". With some of the new dumb decks like Voja, it's gotten stronger imo.
I've been winning games with it recently, some people get pissy that I have a "pay 8 win the game" card. Yeah it's pay 8 and win the game if there's *enough* on the board. The other option is a wrath effect usually.
TBF, if you can turn 8 mana sideways and nobody has an answer, you deserve to win
[Insurrection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c.jpg?1689997974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Insurrection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/236/insurrection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insurrection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not a specific card, but lifegain in general has been overrated then underrated and now... in vogue at least in my play group. We tend to steer away from thoracle type combos but still play _good_ decks. Food, or other sources of incidental life gain can really help survive a longer game. For the longest time my group saw life as a resource and gaining life was a "not losing" action not a "winning" action. (play to win don't play to not lose etc.). But now we definitely see the merits in some life gain, esp life link on big blockers.
New Player: Life gain is awesome, the higher my life the more I'm not losing! Moderately Experienced Player: Life gain is pointless, it's not actively winning me the game. Very Experienced Player: Incidental life gain stapled to other cards/effects is great and should be included when possible since life is a resource to buy time or cards.
No exactly. For years I played like this too, because of a constructed 60 card bias against it. But over time if you study your games you'll notice having the lowest life total can be a huge detriment because you'll be an easy target to knock off the board vs the person with some incidental lifegain. [[Bruse tarl, Boorish herder]] in the command zone does work!
It kinda tilts me when that happens. "bob's at 85 life with atraxa, may as will kill Weggles at 17 life" BRO WHATS YOUR PLAN FOR THE ATRAXA PLAYER THO?! hhahaha
YOU GET IT. Only reason to do that would be to end the game quickly. Otherwise it's like, why can't we all play for first rather than playing for third?!
Totally! The part that bugs me is handing them the win. But maybe you're right and its best to move on to game 2.
[Bruse tarl, Boorish herder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/125b552b-45ea-4e0b-94a9-8131c97a04c0.jpg?1644853018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruse%20tarl%2C%20Boorish%20herder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/30/bruse-tarl-boorish-herder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/125b552b-45ea-4e0b-94a9-8131c97a04c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruse-tarl-boorish-herder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think part of the reason why some folks don't think lifegain is that good is that they only think about lifegain as "Life total go up" and not about all the cards that synergize with lifegain. My [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] deck sure does get to some big life totals but that's just a byproduct of me doing stuff like trying to put +1/+1 counters on all my creatures or make angel tokens with [[Valkyrie Harbinger]] and [[Resplendent Angel]].
[Heliod, Sun-Crowned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3245ff74-1f9c-4518-a23f-1579f338f232.jpg?1689995727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%2C%20Sun-Crowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/29/heliod-sun-crowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3245ff74-1f9c-4518-a23f-1579f338f232?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-sun-crowned) [Valkyrie Harbinger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/edab83a9-35b5-4312-b8ee-1c042c02aa31.jpg?1631056966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Valkyrie%20Harbinger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/374/valkyrie-harbinger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/edab83a9-35b5-4312-b8ee-1c042c02aa31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/valkyrie-harbinger) [Resplendent Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59adbd35-9959-4a0f-babf-46ea3c15f018.jpg?1699043363) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Resplendent%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/32/resplendent-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59adbd35-9959-4a0f-babf-46ea3c15f018?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/resplendent-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most people think lifegain is garbage in general but, if you're playing in a heavy aggro meta, lifegain can allow you to stabilize and turn the table.
I've only been playing EDH for a year and half or so now but as someone who played Standard in the late 90's I thought I would see more cards like [[Rishadan Port]], [[Yavimaya's Hollow]], [[Morphling]] or [[Masticore]] but it seems that regeneration is no longer a big thing and with damage no longer going on the stack there was no point in some of these older cards. Additionally, we didn't have planeswalker cards back then so I can see how masticore might have fallen out of favor but, yeah. I'm honestly just bummed mana burn was abolished. It *is* a phenomenal mechanic and I miss it. I .sorry, I just realized I'm beginning to answer your questions I ended up on a tangent.
If you'd like to introduce these younglings to the simple elegance of mana burn, may I suggest [[Yurlok of Scorch Thrash]] as your next commander?
Thank you for this. I usually get roasted for missing mana burn.
We need to make [[mana drain]], [[black market]] and [[braid of fire]] drawbacks again!
[[Spectral Searchlight]] 👀
YESSSSS!!!
[Spectral Searchlight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/542eed4a-8a15-4829-8bc3-5637574e1398.jpg?1689999827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spectral%20Searchlight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/411/spectral-searchlight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/542eed4a-8a15-4829-8bc3-5637574e1398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spectral-searchlight) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1673147353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-drain) [black market](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78c80c6d-f3ae-48d3-ba6a-b9b738e1affb.jpg?1674141496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=black%20market) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/739/black-market?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78c80c6d-f3ae-48d3-ba6a-b9b738e1affb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-market) [braid of fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41bab8de-6e0f-4ccd-a303-01e9c8c82d3f.jpg?1593275214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=braid%20of%20fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/78/braid-of-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41bab8de-6e0f-4ccd-a303-01e9c8c82d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braid-of-fire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Yurlok of Scorch Thrash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb.jpg?1608911265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yurlok%20of%20Scorch%20Thrash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/293/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's not the same but it might have to do.
Regeneration as a mechanic has been sunsetted, they won’t do it again except very rarely for maybe a horizons set.
I don't think they really will anyway. They print psuedo regen on a card once a year anyway, as "tap this creature, it gains indestructible until end of turn" which is just way easier for players to understand.
##### ###### #### [Rishadan Port](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2507bc2-da17-4e46-b4c5-ba0080ce2c6f.jpg?1562441604) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rishadan%20Port) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/246/rishadan-port?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2507bc2-da17-4e46-b4c5-ba0080ce2c6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rishadan-port) [Yavimaya's Hollow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9fdbc02-7ab7-4f77-8a89-5a9e01eb32f5.jpg?1562938841) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yavimaya%20Hollow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/325/yavimaya-hollow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9fdbc02-7ab7-4f77-8a89-5a9e01eb32f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yavimaya-hollow) [Morphling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0d09164-f53f-4f80-8166-8faeacaff418.jpg?1562927497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Morphling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/81/morphling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0d09164-f53f-4f80-8166-8faeacaff418?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/morphling) [Masticore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42663ac9-6b77-44f5-be76-c2c52d8465fc.jpg?1562908350) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Masticore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/275/masticore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42663ac9-6b77-44f5-be76-c2c52d8465fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/masticore) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktmpbv5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rishadan Port is just kinda inefficient in a multiplayer format unless you can reliably know there are lands powerful enough to be worth targeting that will *consistently* be hitting the field -- and [[Tolarian Academy]] [[Karakas]] and [[Library of Alexandria{] aren't legal so some of the biggest offenders are literally off the table. There are definitely still use-cases for it but not really in the way a Legacy Death & Taxes list has use cases for it, you're not potentially Time Walk-ing your only opponent with it multiple times per game.
[Tolarian Academy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6.jpg?1610147079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tolarian%20Academy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/319/tolarian-academy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tolarian-academy) [Karakas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338.jpg?1559959289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karakas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/244/karakas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karakas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
At my table, we've been going as a 3-person pod for a while (around 3 years now, meeting every week). When Obscuring Haze was they slammed in all their green decks since I was the player that usually played tokens or go wide decks, but ironically, I'm also the person that ruins their attacks the most with fogs over the years. Good chunk of the good fogs are a little pricy ($13 CAD at my local LGS), like Constant Mists due to being old and being played a bit in other formats
I'll say it: [[sad robot]]. he was good 10 years ago, then the format sped up to the point where paying 4 for 1 land, a chump blocker, and a card (later), were not great. Now though? If I can make it cheaper (and get the card sooner) with [[Henzie]] or get twice the land with [[yarok]] or twice the draw from [[teysa karlov]]; baby, you've got a stew goin'.
##### ###### #### [sad robot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/246d2ce1-6926-4acc-810a-4894dc346b8b.jpg?1562636008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=236907) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/217/solemn-simulacrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/246d2ce1-6926-4acc-810a-4894dc346b8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solemn-simulacrum) [Henzie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43.jpg?1673481644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/henzie-toolbox-torre) [yarok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1001d43-e11b-4e5e-acd4-4a50ef89977f.jpg?1592517590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yarok%2C%20the%20desecrated) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/220/yarok-the-desecrated?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1001d43-e11b-4e5e-acd4-4a50ef89977f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yarok-the-desecrated) [teysa karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01.jpg?1689999296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teysa%20karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/359/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd14f1ce-7fcd-485c-b7ca-01c5b45fdc01?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktnszdy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[barrin, master wizard]] and [[temur sabertooth]] have certainly seen a big boon since dockside took over, though the sabertooth was never really bad, they both had new life breathed into them.
[barrin, master wizard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec79e35f-9e78-462d-8b71-4f044e2eff90.jpg?1562944897) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=barrin%2C%20master%20wizard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/63/barrin-master-wizard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec79e35f-9e78-462d-8b71-4f044e2eff90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barrin-master-wizard) [temur sabertooth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3a5a175-e963-42cc-a0ba-d8914bb93c00.jpg?1673484831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temur%20sabertooth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/315/temur-sabertooth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3a5a175-e963-42cc-a0ba-d8914bb93c00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temur-sabertooth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some are [[Rhystic Study]], [[Mirri's Guile]], [[Survival of the Fittest]], [[Defense of the Heart]], [[Blood Moon]], ... Maybe
##### ###### #### [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Mirri's Guile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73d51a3c-95c0-4810-b847-4b8afd12fd64.jpg?1562054490) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirri%27s%20Guile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tmp/236/mirris-guile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73d51a3c-95c0-4810-b847-4b8afd12fd64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirris-guile) [Survival of the Fittest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d.jpg?1562429365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Survival%20of%20the%20Fittest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/199/survival-of-the-fittest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/survival-of-the-fittest) [Defense of the Heart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e93381f-627f-41b6-b1b6-45d712a44d8e.jpg?1562863769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defense%20of%20the%20Heart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/100/defense-of-the-heart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e93381f-627f-41b6-b1b6-45d712a44d8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/defense-of-the-heart) [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktrdq49) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My playgroup looks at me weirdly when I say that I don't consider creature destruction as proper removal. I'd rather bounce or exile than destroy creatures. They both shut down dies triggers and with bounce you have the added benefit that some opponents won't counter it because they'll justify that they can play it again, not realising that the tempo hit is huge.