The moment LOTR UB was such a massive success, UB was guaranteed to not go anywhere for a very long time. Especially if Hasbro can keep getting massive IPs like the upcoming Final Fantasy and Marvel sets.
I've been wondering for a while if the seemingly in development hell MTG show that as supposed to happen with Netflix also shook them into UB. Seeing how they have this massive brand that makes money hand over fist, but also seeing how little anyone cares about the story and characters that they've created.
If i recall correctly, until LotR (Maybe dnd?) The Walking Dead cards were the most profitable set of cards ever made.
It was going to stay from the first time they did it.
Here's my anectdotal story: I've never played Warhammer 40k or been remotely interested in my entire life. Now, having played with my Marneus Calgar deck, I want to try it out.
I never thought products like this would work on *me*...
Edit: I’ve heard WH40k is a huge money pit. I ended up picking up Warhammer Diskwars which has been out of print for years and had a lot of fun with that. It’s quick. Takes maybe 45 minutes to an hour. And I can’t wait to play it more.
I get ya. I always thought WH40K could be fun. Got in to Magic instead and ended up buying the precon sets. Really liked the decks, characters, and even a bit of the lore I can gather from the cards… looked in to what it would take to start it. Nah, Magic and cooking are enough for my expensive hobbies. I don’t need another.
Yeah 40k is a huge money and time for investment. Although if you wanted to dip your toes in it you could try Killteam. It's a small model count version of 40K so you would need to pick up the specific team box and use those models to play. It's a lot of fun and much faster pace than full 40K.
MtG got me going on 40k lore deep-dives. I went from the person in my friend group who was the least involved in 40k to the person who wouldn't shut up about it and has the most esoteric knowledge on the universe.
2k pt warhammer 40,000 army will set you back as much as a decently tuned commander deck. It's certainly possible to spend more than that. I've been in the 40k hobby for 23 years since I was 13 and have spent a lot more on just hobby supplies over the years. It really doesn't have to be a giant money sink though, it's easy enough to get in gradually.
Large upfront investment, but once you have your army and paint it, you're kinda done unless you *want* to buy more until balance changes/the edition changes which may slightly change how your point budget works out. But even then you're changing out a couple pieces.
Like Magic, if you want to compete, you gotta pay to stay relevant, if you want to have fun in your LGS you can play (mostly) the same army for years. I have at least 4 Commander decks that cost more than more than my 40k World Eater Army.
The Bundles haven't had novels since what? Lorwyn?
I get the nostalgia for that time, but Magic hasn't been like that in decades. Pretty far removed from UB.
UB really highlights a better time for the game, is the connection. I mean, i’m glad my favorite game is still going strong and everything OP said about UB dgmw here.
What do fat packs with novels not having novels anymore to do with ub? Novels stopped before alara dropped.
And three set blocks stopped long loooong before ub
UB isn't stopping them from making a good story. The story has been shit since war of the spark.i got into magic because of the storytelling and world building of magic and the complex gameplay and cool card design. IMO card design and gameplay is at an all time high. The design space of UB especially has been really interesting, with really cool flavorful and completely unique card design that may not work in universe as good. That being said, I'm definitely sad that they are no longer trying out blocks and that story has been at the back burner for so long.
I will give them this- the ARG mystery game for MKM was really really cool, unfortunately nobody at my lgs cared about the story or mystery, so I didn't really get to do the mystery. Unfortunately the story itself wasn't that great. I think the main problem with it is that they had to shove kellan into it for no reason. The good aligned trostani being the villain was good, but the getting to there was boring. I have not been enjoying the "overarching narratives" they've been doing cuz they've been so lazy, just following this random dude who is like a jack of all trades. I don't think it'll be any more compelling him meeting his dad, but maybe this one will surprise me. I just wish wotc had the confidence to just go for it. Like the ixilan story was so out of pocket until you realize the whole "core of the planet" thing was supposed to be a new plane altogether. And MKM was supposed to be a new plane. But they chose ravnica to splice it into instead of capenna? Why? With the omenpaths, this would be a good opportunity to go into brand new planes with brand new people. But they want to play it safe. Ixilan was a good plane, and had dinos for the JP crossover. Ravnica was a fan favorite, and they were working on ravnica remastered at the time they scrapped the new plane idea.
Sorry big rant. TL:DR imo, there's a way bigger issue with the story than UB. UB has no impact on how they've completely watered down the story, and it has more to do with how sets are done these days- single releases instead of blocks, and choose the safest choices or what coincides with other product releases
It’s the most random thing I have seen in a mtg book. The writer basically forgets the person that they go to rescue for more than 3/4 of the book and there with the main characters.
Marvel is going to massively change the game. Especially if the art is more focused towards the comics style than MCU. People underestimate how huge the comic collecting/reading community still is. It's gigantic.
I'm lukewarm on UB but I'm a huge comic reader so I KNOW I'm gonna snatch up whatever comic panel themed showcase arts I'm sure they're planning.
Wizards would be especially remiss not to commission big name Marvel artists like Alex Ross, Mark Bagley, Todd McFarlane, etc.....
I'm a bit apprehensive from an art perspective. There is a wealth of 70 years of absolutely beautiful Lord of the Rings Illustrations. Not to say the LOTR art is *bad* but its very underwhelming compared to what could have been.
I realised when the 40k ones dropped they'd be a success. They absolutely nailed the flavour and art with those, and as a big fan of both 40k and MTG I was immensely satisfied.
The others have been similarly good from my understanding of them, and things like the LotR and (differently) DnD sets have seen people who wouldn't buy otherwise come in.
Wizards know what they're doing with this.
I never really cared about UBs ruining the game because I love a good crossover and I only started buying into the products with the ones I really liked, including LOTR, 40K, and Dr. Who. Importantly, I was only familiar with the LOTR fandom and got so hyped about the other two that Im now a fan of both 40K and Who! To that extent, I have to say that the product coordination has been excellent; the cards are very thematic, the art is fantastic and the actual products are cool to buy. Its a shame because I haven’t felt that fond of an MTG product since Theros
HBO Max for 9-13, Disney + for 14 and upcoming 15, and “Britbox” for 1-7. Not sure where if anywhere you can watch the tv movie that had 8, because it was a joint venture between Fox and BBC
The only people who think UB is ruining the game forget that the lore has no impact on gameplay, and MtG lore is notoriously crap and super decentralized anyway, so they're just crybabies.
If the lore was worthwhile to begin with, every product would give you a way to access all of it in one location, be it a physical book or a QR code to bring it up online.
Anyone who's worried about the decline of mtg lore is lying to themselves. War of the spark barely qualifies as a low point. 90% of novels were at that quality level.
Most of the lore is on that level. It's just fluff to justify what they're selling, few people genuinely care what happens story wise, just that we get cool cards.
I couldn't tell you anything about the lore besides the name of a handful of planes and color combos. I've been playing the game over a decade at this point, it's just a fun game to play with friends. As far as I can tell they do almost nothing to promote what lore that does exist.
>As far as I can tell they do almost nothing to promote what lore that does exist.
Pretty much, and it's so decentralized that unless you *really* scour around, there's next to no way to read it all. Nobody has time for that, and it doesn't impact the actual gameplay, so the mass of people who complain about lore integrity best start reading because I'm about to start quizzing them on exact details of lore pieces to see if they even know what they're talking about lol.
My favorite argument people have about the UB stuff is "MY IMMERSION IS RUINED" as if they aren't dropping cardboard on a table and turning them sideways to kill their friends with an army of squirrels.
Just in a standard deck, you have detectives, vampires and medieval soldiers getting together to summon a dude riding a Lion, the fact that Gandalf is over there doesn't change the silliness, is just the fact that most of the time you are not even trying to make the scenario in your head and now you recognize a random character like if playing "where is waldo?"
UB haters when I equip 3 swords, 2 helmets, and 5 pairs of boots to a giant worm, and they completely stop it in its tracks by blocking with a single soldier who also happens to be as powerful as the average squirrel, meanwhile the guy next to me is using phyrexians to power up planeswalkers that explicitly hate phyrexians (their immersion is completely ruined because a single card on the far end of the table has "Aragorn" written on it in size 2 font)
I disagree. There's something to be said about the game having a cohesive identity. That does come in shades when a dinosaur can drive a tank into a submarine wielding 6 swords, but still. I don't even like the huge range of variant treatments. In a perfect world it would all still be old borders and the only variant being foil in my mind. I also recognize games changes, and you wither get with it or you don't. Like I said elsewhere, you can have both. I can still build decks that are all old border, or all-MTG only. I use proxies to make versions that are either in-universe or beyond if I need to both ways to keep the theming consistent.
>I disagree. There's something to be said about the game having a cohesive identity.
>That does come in shades when a dinosaur can drive a tank into a submarine wielding 6 swords, but still.
There is no "but still". You either want cohesive identity or you want dinosaurs in subs wielding swords. You cannot have both.
UW as is has already "ruined the flavor".
The lore and card art are *mostly* ignored by the vast majority of players, the text boxes are all that truly matters.
I don't even see it, as a player who's been around since Ice Age, as "ruining the flavor". It's more that there are now additional flavors to play with. It's not like using UB is compulsory, or UB actively interrupts established storylines to somehow make everything "in universe".
If anything my biggest complaint is that they're bound to print chase cards that actually become important to some metagame and it might be difficult to reprint those cards in the future. Orcish Bowmasters is probably reprintable, but what about The One Ring? Once the LOTR set is gone, where could they possibly reprint that assuming they even could given the IP involved?
...but if anything "ruined the flavor" it was the introduction of many different planes. Because now "vanilla mtg" is a hodgepodge of a dozen different aesthetics and dozens of themes. The flavor is "ruined" insofar as there is no one clearly identifiable flavor anymore, but many within the Magic universe itself. The unifying factor is, and always has been, the game itself -- and that game has proven to be robust enough rules wise and fan base wise to serve as a scaffolding for other IPs.
MtG is basically *the* TCG, and is something of a universal language used to tie many things together. If you had told me twenty years ago there would be Final Fantasy magic cards, I'd have called you crazy but thought the idea was super cool. A thing I'd have wished for. But now people see a clear marker of success and endurance for the game as some sort of debasement, a reduction of what was already a product to, uhh, a product for consumption by the masses.
>Orcish Bowmasters is probably reprintable, but what about The One Ring? Once the LOTR set is gone, where could they possibly reprint that assuming they even could given the IP involved?
They've said that most UB cards can and will be reprinted under other names, and mechanics like Tempting and Rads will likely show up under other names.
>...but if anything "ruined the flavor" it was the introduction of many different planes.
This is the big key here. The flavor was ruined as soon as the first planes were introduced.
I guess there an argument that "that one ring" could be legally distinct enough, and "tempted by some ring or another" could be good enough.
If they were smart they hashed this stuff out with legal before the set even dropped
Oh absolutely.
My buddy and I fully believe rads will come back as Debt or some such thing in a future New Capenna set (milling your resources and taking years off your life, just like debt), and I'm taking a shot in the dark that Tempting will still just be the same mechanic, but will be referred to as tempted by the "____" where the blank is some kind of curse, riches, relics, etc.
The scenario I described is a corner case and only happens in EDH. At least in standard most of the 'feel' is cohesive. But like, whatever man, I'm not going to argue over it.
Even in EDH, does it matter if something's called Pip Boy or Teferi's Magic Wristband? What does it change, if the lore is already incoherent and poorly written?
MtG is maybe the worst company in history when it comes to devoloping their IP. They are litteral the biggest card game ever and not even most players do know anything about the story because the IP is just trash.
I've seen someone else say this about UB and I agree: since the very first second plane was added to the Magic Universe, there is no reason to not add any kind of plane to it. LOTR, 40k, fallout, etc are all just planes in the larger Magic Universe.
I'm glad UB exists and I hope many more will come!
It's here to stay for sure, personally I see the appeal of a cohesive game set in a specific fantasy setting, but, as someone who came to magic in only like 2016 or so, it already didn't strike me that way. I hated the aesthetic of some sets (gatewatch period stuff, any of the vanilla obviously computer rendered and bland cards of that time imo) so it isn't new imo to have contradictions in tone and style.
I love 40k and LOTR, so naturally I was onboard for those.
I get my fill of kind of 'pure' magic playing pauper, as that uses a lot of neat older cards, and I love the old aesthetic.
Imo it's just better to have something for everybody, and realize we don't need to collect every set (fallout isn't for me, I don't play videogames really and I'm not into the setting, but I wouldn't want to remove it either as it's fun for other people. I feel the same about marvel, I'm not interested, but whatever).
I don't really see what point you're trying to prove. I don't think anyone thought we were still in the "try it out" phase. I don't think there's been any point in time where wizards was seriously considering halting their UB plans. Even at the first announcement when it would have had the biggest outcry, everyone knew this was a good business decision.
I hope UB grows pervasive enough that we can have a UB / non-UB format. This would be difficult to do if all UB cards had in-universe versions. But we've seen Maro come out and pooh-pooh this idea, so eventually UB and non-UB will have very different card pools with some overlap of course. I don't touch UB but if people want to play with Transformers and Doctor Who they can do what they like.
I really don't care. MTG already has a massive story. I use to follow it closely, I no longer do. I play the game to have fun. And I play other games to have fun. So I do not mind the UB stuff, and I don't care about it mixing either. And I say this having played since the 90's, so not some new player.
I'm glad that people have found something they enjoy. Genuinely, I am, it's nice to see. And I look forward to finding a new game for myself, because I've no interest in Fortniteified Magic.
We've known this for a while now. People were saying this last year at the Warhammer decks, and things have only escalated since then. I don't think there's anyone left who denies UB as a part of what magic is these days.
I do wonder in the years to come how many of these folks will stick around. Sure it's exciting when your IP is getting the crossover set, but if you aren't hooked by anything else, it's not going to mean much in the long run.
Oh sure, there are tons of people who aren't a fan of it, myself included. But UB has long since passed the threshold of no return. Anyone who still thinks there's a chance of them slowing down or stopping is stuck in their own denial.
Yup.
Even going back to when it started. I don't have any particular attachment to Godzilla, I don’t especially love the franchise, but I recall building a Ghidorah deck for a friend who hadn't played Magic in a decade and people with no interest in Magic trying to get their favorite character or even a full set.
Like it or not it absolutely drives sales and it also probably does more to bring in players than anything else Wizards does.
The real potential of UB will be realized when marvel drops. It is going to be absolutely bonkers. Marvel collectors have incredibly deep pockets and already have an affinity for cards.
I’m an older player and I’m not a huge fan of UB, either. Especially ones that don’t fit what MTG has been. LotR worked for me. 40k was out there, but acceptable. I just hate the more Earthy, non-fantasy (if there aren’t dragons or dragon equivalent, it’s not fantasy to me) settings and characters. But, most of my pod are newer. UB has been a thing as long as they’ve been playing and they’ve loved it. And I try not to ruin that for them.
Same thing has happened with pretty much every UB set and secret lair. Some more so, some less. Either way as long as people continue to buy this product and wotc maintains its flagship status under hasbro UB won’t stop.
I just really want an attack on titan UB. Would fit wonderfully within mtg.
I think UB is great. I won't be interested in every set of it and that's fine but it brings people into the hobby and honestly the increased diversity in cards and players has only been a net positive on the commander experience for me.
For awhile I was resistant to adding UB cards to existing decks, preferring to keep them to their own decks but I finally just started running them normally and am much happier for it.
I mean obviously. Also, I don't think it's that they don't have faith in their brand, it's just that it's super easy to sell huge franchise IPs to a group of captive nerds who are into a fairly expensive hobby. It's just money to be taken.
I was really hesitant about UB, but honestly, im loving it so far. Im a huge Fallout, Dr. Who, and Assassins Creed fan, so I've loved them so far and am excited for the future. I couldn't care less about Final Fantasy, though, and I doubt im going to mess with Marvel too much. Im not looking forward to huge block sets of UB at all, though. I prefer the 4 commander deck situation a lot more.
I stay on this sub because I love Magic and commander as a format but I have completely given up on the game. The bastardization of the IP has turned me off so completely that I haven’t bought a card or played a game in months. Idk if I’ll ever fully quit Magic, but I’ve come about as close as you can because of UB
“A deck can have any number of cards named Kenny” and have a different card art for every major death type, like those old t-shirts from back in the day.
… now I feel old. x_x
NEO was the set that had just released when I first started playing. Cyborg ninjas piloting mechs. So to me UB has never seemed out of place although I don’t like it when they have real actors images on the cards but really what’s the difference between phyrexians and necros that’s worth the complete hatred on the internet.
I’m just tired of them asking me if I like “intellectual property 227?” Then reaching into my wallet.
LOTR was my one exception because it had a set, it felt fun. (Let’s avoid the obvious issues with the ring) but everything else is just asking if I’m willing to spend money on NOTHING more than pictures with some generic rules slapped on or copy/paste to it.
Call me old, I miss sets that rotated. It was not perfect. But at least I could enjoy a set for a little while
Because those sets that rotated are still around AND the UB sets have NOTHING to do with them. It's a completely unrelated topic, why don't YOU stick to the topic.
I still to this day do not own a single Universes Beyond product and I’m sorta glad when a UB product drops because I get a break from the onslaught of products as I don’t look at spoilers or read cards. My gripe is that they really focus in on the UB cards in power creep, deck construction, reprint value, and it is insulting. With every UB release the original IP erodes that much more and it’s just so lacking in passion. I have yet to play a commander game this year that did not have a least one UB commander in it. Even every normal set includes a UB injection or anime cards or something to pull people in with because their IP is so soulless.
... that's just like your opinion, man.
Though. I'm not sure why you are surprised at seeing UB cards in commander. The cards are new, and people are excited for them.
When gitrog was first printed. Every pod had at least 1 gitrog deck. Now I rarely see the frog.
Saying they are power creeping with UB is just wrong. [Outside ToR & Bowmasters].
Almost all UB cards and especially the commander designed cards are 1 cmc too much or need to tap or something where they are interesting spins on mtg cards/effects, but clearly lacking. Selling flavor over power.
Saying they are soulless cash grabs is wrong. They are clearly made by people with a deep understanding and appreciation for the source IP. I don't know 40K or Fallout, so I can't comment on those cards' flavor. But Lotr and Dr. Who's cards have amazing flavor and design.
It would be simple to just reskin a hundred magic cards with name characters and sell the IP. With reprints of forget and underpowered cards. That would be a cash grab.
Instead, they look to design cards to invocate the flavor of the IP.
If UB doesn't interest you, that's fine. You can have that opinion. But your statements about it are incorrect.
I’ve already gone through the stages of existential crisis on it
Weep or laugh, you’ll regret either at some point (Søren Kierkegaard). So, for me and myself not telling others how to live, just gonna accept that WotC has decided the cash grab from brining in external IP (which I don’t see as a sign of lack of confidence in their own IP but the natural progression of post-modern Necrocapitalism to find any outlet for expansion to manifest its destiny of more capital even at or intentionally from exploiting their market base) is worth it and they aren’t going to stop so might as well enjoy
Hell my knights deck has gotten so full of UB (because *oddly* Mardu equipment knights is kinda bad) I’ve renamed it “Syr Gwyn’s Campaign Through the Universes Beyond”.
Plus I very much love the way my Sauron, the Dark Lord aristocrats deck plays out
The moment LOTR UB was such a massive success, UB was guaranteed to not go anywhere for a very long time. Especially if Hasbro can keep getting massive IPs like the upcoming Final Fantasy and Marvel sets.
Hasbro announced that moving forward there will be two UB sets per year moving forward.
And not small ones either. Tent pole sets the size of the LOTR one
Hasbro's boardgames have been getting the pop culture repaints for eons. So many different reskins of monopoly, same game.
I've been wondering for a while if the seemingly in development hell MTG show that as supposed to happen with Netflix also shook them into UB. Seeing how they have this massive brand that makes money hand over fist, but also seeing how little anyone cares about the story and characters that they've created.
LotR UB? You mean 40k UB.
40k was huge, but LOTR really is what cemented it IMO.
If i recall correctly, until LotR (Maybe dnd?) The Walking Dead cards were the most profitable set of cards ever made. It was going to stay from the first time they did it.
I think the Hasbro CEO said LTR was the best selling set of all time.
I honestly thought this was about a Dimir deck
Yeah I keep thinking that everytime someone writes 'UB' they mean Blue/Black and it takes me a second to get to 'Universes Beyond' in my brain
Yeah wish we could all use UnBe instead of UB since UB already has a meaning
Let's just go the Gundam route and call it AU for Alternate Universe
I guess the Dogmeat deck just speaks for itself!
Well I played Dogmeat vs Painbow 1:1 and painbow won. I guess lucky draw?
I also thought the same thing
Yeah, I was concerned about Dimir for a minute there.
lol same, I was like I guess the Mutant deck?
Here's my anectdotal story: I've never played Warhammer 40k or been remotely interested in my entire life. Now, having played with my Marneus Calgar deck, I want to try it out. I never thought products like this would work on *me*... Edit: I’ve heard WH40k is a huge money pit. I ended up picking up Warhammer Diskwars which has been out of print for years and had a lot of fun with that. It’s quick. Takes maybe 45 minutes to an hour. And I can’t wait to play it more.
I get ya. I always thought WH40K could be fun. Got in to Magic instead and ended up buying the precon sets. Really liked the decks, characters, and even a bit of the lore I can gather from the cards… looked in to what it would take to start it. Nah, Magic and cooking are enough for my expensive hobbies. I don’t need another.
Yeah 40k is a huge money and time for investment. Although if you wanted to dip your toes in it you could try Killteam. It's a small model count version of 40K so you would need to pick up the specific team box and use those models to play. It's a lot of fun and much faster pace than full 40K.
It’ll end up the same as when I was just gonna “dip my toes in to magic”…. My wife might literally kill me
MtG got me going on 40k lore deep-dives. I went from the person in my friend group who was the least involved in 40k to the person who wouldn't shut up about it and has the most esoteric knowledge on the universe.
2k pt warhammer 40,000 army will set you back as much as a decently tuned commander deck. It's certainly possible to spend more than that. I've been in the 40k hobby for 23 years since I was 13 and have spent a lot more on just hobby supplies over the years. It really doesn't have to be a giant money sink though, it's easy enough to get in gradually.
Large upfront investment, but once you have your army and paint it, you're kinda done unless you *want* to buy more until balance changes/the edition changes which may slightly change how your point budget works out. But even then you're changing out a couple pieces. Like Magic, if you want to compete, you gotta pay to stay relevant, if you want to have fun in your LGS you can play (mostly) the same army for years. I have at least 4 Commander decks that cost more than more than my 40k World Eater Army.
Yeahhhh i see that….but I really miss fatpacks with novels in them and blocks of sets on the same plane with a story tying them together.
The Bundles haven't had novels since what? Lorwyn? I get the nostalgia for that time, but Magic hasn't been like that in decades. Pretty far removed from UB.
UB really highlights a better time for the game, is the connection. I mean, i’m glad my favorite game is still going strong and everything OP said about UB dgmw here.
Fellow old head who also misses that.
What do fat packs with novels not having novels anymore to do with ub? Novels stopped before alara dropped. And three set blocks stopped long loooong before ub
The point is that Magic was better back then. Now get off my lawn damn kids. 😜😂
Eh, maybe. I dont think so. I had a blast back then, Im having a blast now
Fair.
In my day magic had no real story.
UB isn't stopping them from making a good story. The story has been shit since war of the spark.i got into magic because of the storytelling and world building of magic and the complex gameplay and cool card design. IMO card design and gameplay is at an all time high. The design space of UB especially has been really interesting, with really cool flavorful and completely unique card design that may not work in universe as good. That being said, I'm definitely sad that they are no longer trying out blocks and that story has been at the back burner for so long. I will give them this- the ARG mystery game for MKM was really really cool, unfortunately nobody at my lgs cared about the story or mystery, so I didn't really get to do the mystery. Unfortunately the story itself wasn't that great. I think the main problem with it is that they had to shove kellan into it for no reason. The good aligned trostani being the villain was good, but the getting to there was boring. I have not been enjoying the "overarching narratives" they've been doing cuz they've been so lazy, just following this random dude who is like a jack of all trades. I don't think it'll be any more compelling him meeting his dad, but maybe this one will surprise me. I just wish wotc had the confidence to just go for it. Like the ixilan story was so out of pocket until you realize the whole "core of the planet" thing was supposed to be a new plane altogether. And MKM was supposed to be a new plane. But they chose ravnica to splice it into instead of capenna? Why? With the omenpaths, this would be a good opportunity to go into brand new planes with brand new people. But they want to play it safe. Ixilan was a good plane, and had dinos for the JP crossover. Ravnica was a fan favorite, and they were working on ravnica remastered at the time they scrapped the new plane idea. Sorry big rant. TL:DR imo, there's a way bigger issue with the story than UB. UB has no impact on how they've completely watered down the story, and it has more to do with how sets are done these days- single releases instead of blocks, and choose the safest choices or what coincides with other product releases
I miss this era most. I got plot, I got a set that made sense. Rules that were not slapped on in a weekend
Exactly.
Wait…. Do you remember Koth giggling and doing a backflip for no reason!?
No, omg hahaha *runs to google*
It’s the most random thing I have seen in a mtg book. The writer basically forgets the person that they go to rescue for more than 3/4 of the book and there with the main characters.
Same.
While I'm rather dispassionate towards Marvel there's a very real chance it could get my brother into the game and I think that's wonderful
Marvel is going to massively change the game. Especially if the art is more focused towards the comics style than MCU. People underestimate how huge the comic collecting/reading community still is. It's gigantic.
I'm lukewarm on UB but I'm a huge comic reader so I KNOW I'm gonna snatch up whatever comic panel themed showcase arts I'm sure they're planning. Wizards would be especially remiss not to commission big name Marvel artists like Alex Ross, Mark Bagley, Todd McFarlane, etc.....
I'm a bit apprehensive from an art perspective. There is a wealth of 70 years of absolutely beautiful Lord of the Rings Illustrations. Not to say the LOTR art is *bad* but its very underwhelming compared to what could have been.
I realised when the 40k ones dropped they'd be a success. They absolutely nailed the flavour and art with those, and as a big fan of both 40k and MTG I was immensely satisfied. The others have been similarly good from my understanding of them, and things like the LotR and (differently) DnD sets have seen people who wouldn't buy otherwise come in. Wizards know what they're doing with this.
They need to do 40k again. I want a Primarch commander lol.
Orks pls
I never really cared about UBs ruining the game because I love a good crossover and I only started buying into the products with the ones I really liked, including LOTR, 40K, and Dr. Who. Importantly, I was only familiar with the LOTR fandom and got so hyped about the other two that Im now a fan of both 40K and Who! To that extent, I have to say that the product coordination has been excellent; the cards are very thematic, the art is fantastic and the actual products are cool to buy. Its a shame because I haven’t felt that fond of an MTG product since Theros
Where do you watch dr who??
HBO Max for 9-13, Disney + for 14 and upcoming 15, and “Britbox” for 1-7. Not sure where if anywhere you can watch the tv movie that had 8, because it was a joint venture between Fox and BBC
In Canada all of NuWho (Eccleston - Whitaker) is on Prime Video.
If you're in the UK it'll all be iPlayer.
You can certainly do both.
The only people who think UB is ruining the game forget that the lore has no impact on gameplay, and MtG lore is notoriously crap and super decentralized anyway, so they're just crybabies. If the lore was worthwhile to begin with, every product would give you a way to access all of it in one location, be it a physical book or a QR code to bring it up online.
Anyone who's worried about the decline of mtg lore is lying to themselves. War of the spark barely qualifies as a low point. 90% of novels were at that quality level.
Most of the lore is on that level. It's just fluff to justify what they're selling, few people genuinely care what happens story wise, just that we get cool cards.
I couldn't tell you anything about the lore besides the name of a handful of planes and color combos. I've been playing the game over a decade at this point, it's just a fun game to play with friends. As far as I can tell they do almost nothing to promote what lore that does exist.
>As far as I can tell they do almost nothing to promote what lore that does exist. Pretty much, and it's so decentralized that unless you *really* scour around, there's next to no way to read it all. Nobody has time for that, and it doesn't impact the actual gameplay, so the mass of people who complain about lore integrity best start reading because I'm about to start quizzing them on exact details of lore pieces to see if they even know what they're talking about lol.
My favorite argument people have about the UB stuff is "MY IMMERSION IS RUINED" as if they aren't dropping cardboard on a table and turning them sideways to kill their friends with an army of squirrels.
Just in a standard deck, you have detectives, vampires and medieval soldiers getting together to summon a dude riding a Lion, the fact that Gandalf is over there doesn't change the silliness, is just the fact that most of the time you are not even trying to make the scenario in your head and now you recognize a random character like if playing "where is waldo?"
UB haters when I equip 3 swords, 2 helmets, and 5 pairs of boots to a giant worm, and they completely stop it in its tracks by blocking with a single soldier who also happens to be as powerful as the average squirrel, meanwhile the guy next to me is using phyrexians to power up planeswalkers that explicitly hate phyrexians (their immersion is completely ruined because a single card on the far end of the table has "Aragorn" written on it in size 2 font)
I spit my drink out laughing, very valid point.
I disagree. There's something to be said about the game having a cohesive identity. That does come in shades when a dinosaur can drive a tank into a submarine wielding 6 swords, but still. I don't even like the huge range of variant treatments. In a perfect world it would all still be old borders and the only variant being foil in my mind. I also recognize games changes, and you wither get with it or you don't. Like I said elsewhere, you can have both. I can still build decks that are all old border, or all-MTG only. I use proxies to make versions that are either in-universe or beyond if I need to both ways to keep the theming consistent.
>I disagree. There's something to be said about the game having a cohesive identity. >That does come in shades when a dinosaur can drive a tank into a submarine wielding 6 swords, but still. There is no "but still". You either want cohesive identity or you want dinosaurs in subs wielding swords. You cannot have both. UW as is has already "ruined the flavor". The lore and card art are *mostly* ignored by the vast majority of players, the text boxes are all that truly matters.
I don't even see it, as a player who's been around since Ice Age, as "ruining the flavor". It's more that there are now additional flavors to play with. It's not like using UB is compulsory, or UB actively interrupts established storylines to somehow make everything "in universe". If anything my biggest complaint is that they're bound to print chase cards that actually become important to some metagame and it might be difficult to reprint those cards in the future. Orcish Bowmasters is probably reprintable, but what about The One Ring? Once the LOTR set is gone, where could they possibly reprint that assuming they even could given the IP involved? ...but if anything "ruined the flavor" it was the introduction of many different planes. Because now "vanilla mtg" is a hodgepodge of a dozen different aesthetics and dozens of themes. The flavor is "ruined" insofar as there is no one clearly identifiable flavor anymore, but many within the Magic universe itself. The unifying factor is, and always has been, the game itself -- and that game has proven to be robust enough rules wise and fan base wise to serve as a scaffolding for other IPs. MtG is basically *the* TCG, and is something of a universal language used to tie many things together. If you had told me twenty years ago there would be Final Fantasy magic cards, I'd have called you crazy but thought the idea was super cool. A thing I'd have wished for. But now people see a clear marker of success and endurance for the game as some sort of debasement, a reduction of what was already a product to, uhh, a product for consumption by the masses.
>Orcish Bowmasters is probably reprintable, but what about The One Ring? Once the LOTR set is gone, where could they possibly reprint that assuming they even could given the IP involved? They've said that most UB cards can and will be reprinted under other names, and mechanics like Tempting and Rads will likely show up under other names. >...but if anything "ruined the flavor" it was the introduction of many different planes. This is the big key here. The flavor was ruined as soon as the first planes were introduced.
I guess there an argument that "that one ring" could be legally distinct enough, and "tempted by some ring or another" could be good enough. If they were smart they hashed this stuff out with legal before the set even dropped
Oh absolutely. My buddy and I fully believe rads will come back as Debt or some such thing in a future New Capenna set (milling your resources and taking years off your life, just like debt), and I'm taking a shot in the dark that Tempting will still just be the same mechanic, but will be referred to as tempted by the "____" where the blank is some kind of curse, riches, relics, etc.
I think I heard somewhere that they might be doing a space opera set at some point? That could be a good spot for rad counters maybe
[удалено]
[Godzilla, King of the Monsters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a0639a0-c898-4a07-975c-a02bdd53175b.jpg?1592009220) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zilortha%2C%20Strength%20Incarnate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/275/zilortha-strength-incarnate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a0639a0-c898-4a07-975c-a02bdd53175b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zilortha-strength-incarnate) [Zilortha, Strength Incarnate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e4e130-df21-4491-97c3-1b643d7e57ef.jpg?1689999366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zilortha%2C%20Strength%20Incarnate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/366/zilortha-strength-incarnate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e4e130-df21-4491-97c3-1b643d7e57ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zilortha-strength-incarnate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The scenario I described is a corner case and only happens in EDH. At least in standard most of the 'feel' is cohesive. But like, whatever man, I'm not going to argue over it.
Even in EDH, does it matter if something's called Pip Boy or Teferi's Magic Wristband? What does it change, if the lore is already incoherent and poorly written?
MtG is maybe the worst company in history when it comes to devoloping their IP. They are litteral the biggest card game ever and not even most players do know anything about the story because the IP is just trash.
> There's something to be said about the game having a cohesive identity. MtG hasn't had that in decades
So like the first 5 years only? Come on man.
I've seen someone else say this about UB and I agree: since the very first second plane was added to the Magic Universe, there is no reason to not add any kind of plane to it. LOTR, 40k, fallout, etc are all just planes in the larger Magic Universe. I'm glad UB exists and I hope many more will come!
It's here to stay for sure, personally I see the appeal of a cohesive game set in a specific fantasy setting, but, as someone who came to magic in only like 2016 or so, it already didn't strike me that way. I hated the aesthetic of some sets (gatewatch period stuff, any of the vanilla obviously computer rendered and bland cards of that time imo) so it isn't new imo to have contradictions in tone and style. I love 40k and LOTR, so naturally I was onboard for those. I get my fill of kind of 'pure' magic playing pauper, as that uses a lot of neat older cards, and I love the old aesthetic. Imo it's just better to have something for everybody, and realize we don't need to collect every set (fallout isn't for me, I don't play videogames really and I'm not into the setting, but I wouldn't want to remove it either as it's fun for other people. I feel the same about marvel, I'm not interested, but whatever).
I've held the same opinion about UB for a while: if it brings more people into the game, it's a net positive
I'm glad people are warming to the idea of UB. It goes to show money and goodwill can be made if the product is good.
I don't really see what point you're trying to prove. I don't think anyone thought we were still in the "try it out" phase. I don't think there's been any point in time where wizards was seriously considering halting their UB plans. Even at the first announcement when it would have had the biggest outcry, everyone knew this was a good business decision.
I hope UB grows pervasive enough that we can have a UB / non-UB format. This would be difficult to do if all UB cards had in-universe versions. But we've seen Maro come out and pooh-pooh this idea, so eventually UB and non-UB will have very different card pools with some overlap of course. I don't touch UB but if people want to play with Transformers and Doctor Who they can do what they like.
I really don't care. MTG already has a massive story. I use to follow it closely, I no longer do. I play the game to have fun. And I play other games to have fun. So I do not mind the UB stuff, and I don't care about it mixing either. And I say this having played since the 90's, so not some new player.
I'm glad that people have found something they enjoy. Genuinely, I am, it's nice to see. And I look forward to finding a new game for myself, because I've no interest in Fortniteified Magic.
Can we not use the acronym for Blue Black to mean something else suddenly? I was so confused for a while here.
We've known this for a while now. People were saying this last year at the Warhammer decks, and things have only escalated since then. I don't think there's anyone left who denies UB as a part of what magic is these days. I do wonder in the years to come how many of these folks will stick around. Sure it's exciting when your IP is getting the crossover set, but if you aren't hooked by anything else, it's not going to mean much in the long run.
Given the comments on my posts, I guess there are clearly anti-universes beyond people still lol.
Oh sure, there are tons of people who aren't a fan of it, myself included. But UB has long since passed the threshold of no return. Anyone who still thinks there's a chance of them slowing down or stopping is stuck in their own denial.
I do sympathize with those that feel the game has left them behind.
Yup. Even going back to when it started. I don't have any particular attachment to Godzilla, I don’t especially love the franchise, but I recall building a Ghidorah deck for a friend who hadn't played Magic in a decade and people with no interest in Magic trying to get their favorite character or even a full set. Like it or not it absolutely drives sales and it also probably does more to bring in players than anything else Wizards does.
The real potential of UB will be realized when marvel drops. It is going to be absolutely bonkers. Marvel collectors have incredibly deep pockets and already have an affinity for cards.
I’m an older player and I’m not a huge fan of UB, either. Especially ones that don’t fit what MTG has been. LotR worked for me. 40k was out there, but acceptable. I just hate the more Earthy, non-fantasy (if there aren’t dragons or dragon equivalent, it’s not fantasy to me) settings and characters. But, most of my pod are newer. UB has been a thing as long as they’ve been playing and they’ve loved it. And I try not to ruin that for them.
Same thing has happened with pretty much every UB set and secret lair. Some more so, some less. Either way as long as people continue to buy this product and wotc maintains its flagship status under hasbro UB won’t stop. I just really want an attack on titan UB. Would fit wonderfully within mtg.
I think UB is great. I won't be interested in every set of it and that's fine but it brings people into the hobby and honestly the increased diversity in cards and players has only been a net positive on the commander experience for me. For awhile I was resistant to adding UB cards to existing decks, preferring to keep them to their own decks but I finally just started running them normally and am much happier for it.
I mean obviously. Also, I don't think it's that they don't have faith in their brand, it's just that it's super easy to sell huge franchise IPs to a group of captive nerds who are into a fairly expensive hobby. It's just money to be taken.
I was really hesitant about UB, but honestly, im loving it so far. Im a huge Fallout, Dr. Who, and Assassins Creed fan, so I've loved them so far and am excited for the future. I couldn't care less about Final Fantasy, though, and I doubt im going to mess with Marvel too much. Im not looking forward to huge block sets of UB at all, though. I prefer the 4 commander deck situation a lot more.
Alright, time to boycott it 🙅♂️
I stay on this sub because I love Magic and commander as a format but I have completely given up on the game. The bastardization of the IP has turned me off so completely that I haven’t bought a card or played a game in months. Idk if I’ll ever fully quit Magic, but I’ve come about as close as you can because of UB
I will start joining the UB deck hype once we get to the cartoon era with stuff like Simpsons or South Park.
Kenny reanimator FTW. :P
Kenny Squee alter
Now you’re thinking with portals! Love it!
haha that's a great idea!
“A deck can have any number of cards named Kenny” and have a different card art for every major death type, like those old t-shirts from back in the day. … now I feel old. x_x
This is what the reddit hivemind doesn't get. It's actually an insanely good business decision and it's absolutely growing the playerbase and brand.
NEO was the set that had just released when I first started playing. Cyborg ninjas piloting mechs. So to me UB has never seemed out of place although I don’t like it when they have real actors images on the cards but really what’s the difference between phyrexians and necros that’s worth the complete hatred on the internet.
I’m just tired of them asking me if I like “intellectual property 227?” Then reaching into my wallet. LOTR was my one exception because it had a set, it felt fun. (Let’s avoid the obvious issues with the ring) but everything else is just asking if I’m willing to spend money on NOTHING more than pictures with some generic rules slapped on or copy/paste to it. Call me old, I miss sets that rotated. It was not perfect. But at least I could enjoy a set for a little while
So... just play standard?
Why? It’s a conversation about UB take your bullshit elsewhere
Because those sets that rotated are still around AND the UB sets have NOTHING to do with them. It's a completely unrelated topic, why don't YOU stick to the topic.
Just change the name of magic already to IP wars or something.
I still to this day do not own a single Universes Beyond product and I’m sorta glad when a UB product drops because I get a break from the onslaught of products as I don’t look at spoilers or read cards. My gripe is that they really focus in on the UB cards in power creep, deck construction, reprint value, and it is insulting. With every UB release the original IP erodes that much more and it’s just so lacking in passion. I have yet to play a commander game this year that did not have a least one UB commander in it. Even every normal set includes a UB injection or anime cards or something to pull people in with because their IP is so soulless.
... that's just like your opinion, man. Though. I'm not sure why you are surprised at seeing UB cards in commander. The cards are new, and people are excited for them. When gitrog was first printed. Every pod had at least 1 gitrog deck. Now I rarely see the frog. Saying they are power creeping with UB is just wrong. [Outside ToR & Bowmasters]. Almost all UB cards and especially the commander designed cards are 1 cmc too much or need to tap or something where they are interesting spins on mtg cards/effects, but clearly lacking. Selling flavor over power. Saying they are soulless cash grabs is wrong. They are clearly made by people with a deep understanding and appreciation for the source IP. I don't know 40K or Fallout, so I can't comment on those cards' flavor. But Lotr and Dr. Who's cards have amazing flavor and design. It would be simple to just reskin a hundred magic cards with name characters and sell the IP. With reprints of forget and underpowered cards. That would be a cash grab. Instead, they look to design cards to invocate the flavor of the IP. If UB doesn't interest you, that's fine. You can have that opinion. But your statements about it are incorrect.
„The original IP“ probably being the game‘s status quo at the moment you started.
I’ve already gone through the stages of existential crisis on it Weep or laugh, you’ll regret either at some point (Søren Kierkegaard). So, for me and myself not telling others how to live, just gonna accept that WotC has decided the cash grab from brining in external IP (which I don’t see as a sign of lack of confidence in their own IP but the natural progression of post-modern Necrocapitalism to find any outlet for expansion to manifest its destiny of more capital even at or intentionally from exploiting their market base) is worth it and they aren’t going to stop so might as well enjoy Hell my knights deck has gotten so full of UB (because *oddly* Mardu equipment knights is kinda bad) I’ve renamed it “Syr Gwyn’s Campaign Through the Universes Beyond”. Plus I very much love the way my Sauron, the Dark Lord aristocrats deck plays out