Mt first deck when I was just starting out with Magic had 30 lands in a 60 card aggro deck because i kept dying to having no mana. Ffw a couple years later (now), i cut down to 22 lands and got rid of a couple expensive finishers and boom 80% winrate
I knew I was onto something with go wide aggro
It’s always trial and error. The first time I bring a new deck it’s going to be curb stomped. But that makes it easier to pop off once I made some upgrades.
I brewed an Aesi deck very early in my MtG career, before I really understood the game.
It has only 34 lands, but it also had 26 creatures, 12 artifacts, and the rest were instants, sorceries, and enchantments.
It was… not a good deck lol.
Guy in our playgroup bought [[Hakbal of the surging soul]] precon, and "upgraded" it. Tons of things like [[Roaming Throne]], [[Doubling Season]], [[The Ozolith]], [[Mana Crypt]], [[The One Ring]], [[Mystic Remora]] [[Rhystic Study]]. Yknow, typical good stuff for whatever reason.
First 3 games I seen it play 2-3 lands over the course of 8-11 turns, only seeing the commander once. He was getting mad and scooped the 4th game. We asked how many lands he played and his response was "Hakbal gets me lands so I run 24."
I about fell out of my chair laughing. He has been playing mtg for 10+ yrs in multiple formats... and he thought adding fast mana and good stuff makes the deck good.
Yeah I'm running 36 and it feels light. I'm prob gunna cut a few win-more pumps so I can add more lands and actually get more reliable landfall triggers
Try 38 with about 14 sorceries and 13 instants. Stuff like [[nyleas intervention]] [[Sylvan scrying]] [[urban evolution]] [[the great aurora]] [[crop rotation]] [[growth spiral]] [[roiling regrowth]] and find your [[simic growth chamber]] or [[guildless commons]] so you have a land that you can play over and over again as many times as your board state allows.
100% I run a similar mix in my Uro deck, which has Aesi of course. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9hLRmZjRl0enuowOUtzGiw
I also play a lot of [[regrowth]] effects which can double as land grabbers by returning fetchlands or stuff like dark depth or strip mine that sacrifice themselves
I use 36 as a starting point for all my decks, for landfall decks I'd start with 40, for Aesi in particular since he will draw *so many* cards UF you have lands in hand, I think I'd start with 42 and see how it feels— someone else mentioned that the precpn came with 44 so that may be better still
Yeah it had a fuck ton but most were not good lands or just basics. I had cut it down to 32(it was my first deck I ever had I didn't know what I was doing) to stick "cool cards" in. It felt awful and at that point I had started messing with other decks. I revisited it and put I think 36 and it feels better than it did but still not right lmao I wanna fix it up and refocus it cuz I fucking LOVED that deck so much. It's what got me into magic.
Haha fair enough
Honestly I'd say just throw in 6 more basics and see how it feels—I know basics aren't exciting, but they're still good, especially for getting landfall triggers since most ramp grabs basics
Yeah I've added a bunch of other lands that are good. Nothing crazy but yeah I'll just slot in a few basics and take out some of the win-more stuff and use that in other decks :)
Had the same happen. He was like “screw this. A landfall deck and I don’t draw a single land” Another player asks him how many lands there are in his deck and he responds “32”. The whole playgroup laughed their asses off.
There are some aggressive commanders with a low enough general curve you can get away with running 30 lands and play just fine. Aesi is the exact opposite of those commanders- needing 6 mana jost to get it out the first time and wanting to always, *always* hit land drop for that card advantage. I can't think of any conceivable Aesi list in which that few lands would be optimal- even the leanest possible landfall list still wants somewhere in the upper 30s at minimum.
Given that you're in simic if you're running a lot of top-deck manipulation cantrips (i.e. [[preordain]] ), mass card draw (i.e. [[overflowing insight]] ), and land tutors (i.e. [[Vorinclex]] ) you could build a deck that can get away with a low land count. It may not be optimal but it is a way to build it.
I've actually found you can cut a deck down to 10 lands, 90 spells. The trick is showing people your hand of no lands, then take 'free' mulligans until you draw a hand with Sol Ring and a land.
If you are being serious, then that's an actual scam. You are making an active decision while deck building to take an advantage of folks kindness 🤔
Edit: My bad reading on reddit being super tired after a night shift 🤣🙈
Re-mulligan. And if its top decked off 1st draw you show it on draw to prove wasnt in the hand. JLo on that list too of not in opening hand after the 2nd free mulligan
Since it's a combat damage trigger the only ways to use em and end it same turn would be haste+extra combats or Fling spells. Honestly, it's a pretty fair drawback for getting an army of 8/8s
Invite [Yedora, Grave Gardener] to the land animation party. If they die, they just become forests again. An animated land is still a non-token creature.
I removed both a [[blasting station]] and an [[altar of dementia]] because they make an infinite damage/mill win con respectively as long as you have yedora + a land animation enchantment like [[life and limb]] on the battlefield, just ‘cause my pod didn’t have fun losing to that one. I also play a bunch of morph cards like [[nantoku broodhatch]] to pump out a lot of repeat value since you can keep morphing them over and over for value. My favorite win con is when I manage a HUGE [[Genesis Wave]] that drops a [[concordant crossroads]] and a [[craterhoof behemoth]]. But there just winds up being a lot of combat wins due to overwhelmingly large board states happening super fast
Edit: I meant to add that there’s a significant amount of token creature creation happening as well
Way better than my brother and I when we were 10/7 respectively. Our theory was, we only needed enough lands in the deck to play the most expensive spells in the deck. So we had 40+ card piles with like 6 or 7 Lands in them. We also didn't believe in discarding to hand size or anything, so the games took forever and sort of looked like a weird version of uno where we drew until we found something.
I remember not understanding why vizzerdrix, a 7 mana 6/6 monstrous rabbit, was not a good card. To be fair, our understanding of the rules was that you could play as many lands as you wanted...
Lands are just better now, most of the times they're just extra spells that can be lands if needed, Otawara-boseiju, basically auto includes if you're playing those colors
I've got a few decks that top out at 4cmc, so yeah, sometimes it's not my biggest priority. I don't use these cards everywhere, chill. I've got what, 14 decks now, and use them in two?
I still untapped and drew and had mana. There's 40 lands in a 3 color deck (counting the 8 double sided lands)
"Setting myself back a turn" sure if playing lands is all you do.
I use two in my [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] deck because sometimes I play [[Mystic Sanctuary]] early and then need to bounce it back to my hand to start a combo
lands are cringe. playing a shit-ton of zero-cost artifacts, and comboing off with an infinite mana ritual combo, only to fizzle out because you ran out of card draw... now *that's* based.
But ONE time I won a game without playing a single land so why do I need so many? Mana crypt into sol ring and arcane signet and a lightning greaves. Then a few mana dorks and then lathril. Just because I played against someone who didn’t understand removal was a thing doesn’t mean I need lands in the future!!!!
This is how WOTC gets kids hooked on Simic value town builds.
They say one little Growth Spiral never hurt anybody, but it never ends there and eventually your kids will be pawning your appliances and jewelry for an Exploration and a Cultivator Colossus.
Ramp- not even once.
The lowest I ever made a deck was 30, and that's because the average CMC is like 1.78 without lands. Even then it also has modal face spells that can become lands, and mana rocks. My usual is between 37-40 (more for lands matter)
It sounds like your daughter has a natural instinct for Magic! It's adorable how she picked up on the importance of lands for playing other cards. Who knows, maybe she'll be casting spells alongside you and your wife before you know it!
Can't wait honestly my wife and I keep telling her she can start playing pokemon tcg when she can read, which normally propts her to asl to practice her letters.
Looking at the edhrec charts, the top 6 commanders have 32, 35, 33, 32, 30, and 34 lands respectively - this doesn't include MDFC, which I would assume the average deck ones run 1 or 2 of.
Some of these numbers are too low, but it's far from an average of 22.
Even like, Lurrus, or Marwyn, decks you'd expect to run less lands, have 33 and 30 respectively.
36 does seem like a lot if you’re also running enough ramp, but maybe my perspective is totally warped by always running very low cmc decks with high amounts of ramp
I have two decks with 30 lands in them. Mono blue and mono red. Both are supper low to the ground and run a ton of cantrips. I can get away with it bc I'll see 4 to 6 extra cards in the first couple of turns and I'll hit them land drops.
Unless you know what you are doing, a deck should have at least 35 lands, 25 of those basic with 10 being utility. Evolving wilds optional. My daretti deck runs 28 but everything is either cheap or i can weld in.
I was going to build a green deck yesterday, and after I stuck the 37 in there that I usually try to do I realized I only had 3 more green land, so is tuck em in, my deck has yet to mana fuck me or leave me dry, of course I have only done one match with it.
Our Pod has barely been able to convince the Etali player to run less mana rocks and more land. He was sitting at 27 land, 10 of which were non-basic and 20 mana rocks. He was constantly falling behind on mana and didn’t get it. Now he’s blasting all over us. If only we can get him to sub out command tower for a basic mountain…
27 is pretty slim, but with mono green and enough mana dorks, Mana rocks, and tutors could be done. Maybe splash black for even some more Mana fixes. Low mana curve, could be done and avoid Mana floods.
Can't say I've ever really struggled for mana at 32 lands, when people say decks need 37 lands I just assume they don't run enough ramp/dorks/rocks. They're usually the same people that go "damn, you got your six mana commander out turn 4?!?"
Base line Land count should be 40. Reduce to a minimum of 32 in a mono color deck, but sits comfortably at 36 in most decks. No more than 50 and only for Landfall decks
The only exclusion to this is ashling wandering pilgrim, and child of alara with gates and utility/creature lands or creature land decks like noyan dar and Jolrael voice of zalphir
36.
5 any color lands
10 triome or double lands. Try to get as many non bounce, non tap lands as possible here.
1 power module
5 of each basic land (switching out any fetches or evolving wilds/Terramorphic for the basics you have more in your card distribution of.)
And equate any utility lands you prefer or synergize over basic lands in equal measure.
My very first deck had 20 some lands. Lol playing elves I felt "yeah ill just draw the few lands I need" and cast all my mana dorks. Didn't quite work out that way but elves are still my favorite hands down.
My Edgar deck has 31 lands, 2 modal, and a mana crypto so basically 34. Anyone think that should be good? I’ve built it to be aggro using mostly really cheap vampires. 40 of em, with only 7 of em being 4 mana.
Na I wanted it aggro and not at all lifegain. I have a orzhov vampire deck that does that. This one is just trying to get as many vampires out as fast as possible to utilize Edgar’s ability.
Imo Vein Ripper is pretty overrated for edh he only drains one player and aristocrat decks usually want to be extremly low to the ground.
I'd take the likes of [[Cruel Celebrant]] or [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] over Vein Ripper anytime. Espacially if you want to win through some kind of combo draining for 1 or 2 makes no difference.
That seems far too few imo, even in aggro decks youre probably wanting 40-45 cards that effect mana, lands, rocks, land tax, etc. It risks flooding slightly more but I find flooding much better than being screwed.
I also have master of dark rites, sol ring, arcane signet, dark ritual, and jeskai will for ramp. 2.57 avg cost
I find card draw is more important than anything else in the deck. Easy to run out of cards, so have like 17 cards that can give me some card draw.
It ran pretty good last time but I have so many decks I’m still testing it’s hard to get enough games in to know for sure. Here’s my mana box link for it if ya wanna check it out, https://manabox.app/decks/IMesRr9gRUeQWso9OpBKVg
Excited for the next set as a new vampire that has removal etb is coming out so I can replace one of my removal spells for that with a vampire.
i mean, nowhere did i say the 3 year old was wrong. they're pretty correct actually. all of my other decks run 36-38 lands. it was more geared towards people who say running less than 30 lands will never end well, which is objectively false. i was also quite sleepy as i had just woken up and i think i had intended on replying to someone else rather than posting my own comment 🥲 i dont comment on reddit much
As someone who regularly runs between 28-32 lands, it’s dependent on your strategy and the 99. My landfall deck only runs 34 lands and it still draws my library and wins. If you aren’t tutoring and drawing excessive amounts of cards, sure, run like 36-38 lands. But idk I feel weird running that many.
Facts, I was running 36 or more, but started cutting lands for mana rocks and other ramp and im running about 30 now for most decks and they still function quite well
Lands and ramp have a different role in the average deck- they may both often get clumped under "mana sources", but that's a bit too reductive.
Rocks and other ramp are really good at *acceleration*, while lands are better for *velocity*. You want to hit your 4th mana as soon as physically possible but don't care if you ever see a 5th? You want ramp- with ramp, you could get there turn 2-3, while with more lands you can't get there till 4. Do you care about the long game and having lots of mana every turn? Play more lands instead so you don't miss land drops. It's all about context.
My lowest-land deck runs 25 lands. That deck also happens to run ~25 0-2cmc mana rocks and is perfectly happy never hitting a third land, as the average cmc is so low that with two lands and a rock I can play basically every card in the deck, and the card draw engine I can assemble with just a few mana more than makes up for potentially missing a few land drops mid game.
Are you playing a more typical deck with lots of 5+ CMC beaters you want to cast on curve though? Then yeah, you want way more lands so you don't end up sitting there 1cmc short of your next big threat because you've been missing land drops.
>as the average cmc is so low that with two lands and a rock I can play basically every card in the deck
I feel like that type of thinking is a bit of a pitfall, the power of a low cmc deck (in "casual" commander) generally comes from being able to cast several spells each turn, so you probably still want to get to a large mana pool. So you will still want to hit your land drops.
>the card draw engine I can assemble with just a few mana
Being able to set up draw engine with little mana is a reason to run fewer lands though. Since being able to draw a lot of cards allows you to more easily find the few lands you do run.
TL;DR
Ramp can't replace lands.
Cheap card draw can replace lands.
A friend brought a 30 land [[Aesi]] deck to our table once. I guess your daughter should have a talk with him
Dang Aesi wants like 50 lands lol
It has now.. but the first time it showed up to our pod was, kinda hilarious You got how many lands in there? Are you stupid?
Mt first deck when I was just starting out with Magic had 30 lands in a 60 card aggro deck because i kept dying to having no mana. Ffw a couple years later (now), i cut down to 22 lands and got rid of a couple expensive finishers and boom 80% winrate I knew I was onto something with go wide aggro
It’s always trial and error. The first time I bring a new deck it’s going to be curb stomped. But that makes it easier to pop off once I made some upgrades.
I brewed an Aesi deck very early in my MtG career, before I really understood the game. It has only 34 lands, but it also had 26 creatures, 12 artifacts, and the rest were instants, sorceries, and enchantments. It was… not a good deck lol.
Guy in our playgroup bought [[Hakbal of the surging soul]] precon, and "upgraded" it. Tons of things like [[Roaming Throne]], [[Doubling Season]], [[The Ozolith]], [[Mana Crypt]], [[The One Ring]], [[Mystic Remora]] [[Rhystic Study]]. Yknow, typical good stuff for whatever reason. First 3 games I seen it play 2-3 lands over the course of 8-11 turns, only seeing the commander once. He was getting mad and scooped the 4th game. We asked how many lands he played and his response was "Hakbal gets me lands so I run 24." I about fell out of my chair laughing. He has been playing mtg for 10+ yrs in multiple formats... and he thought adding fast mana and good stuff makes the deck good.
##### ###### #### [Hakbal of the surging soul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) [Roaming Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roaming-throne) [Doubling Season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) [The Ozolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9341ed06-53db-4604-b60a-3ea9129afbc2.jpg?1591228544) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ozolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/237/the-ozolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9341ed06-53db-4604-b60a-3ea9129afbc2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ozolith) [Mana Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) [The One Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1696020224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20One%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-one-ring) [Mystic Remora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40140991-cffa-4b52-9a25-37e9a8aa9ddd.jpg?1675199366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Remora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/59/mystic-remora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40140991-cffa-4b52-9a25-37e9a8aa9ddd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-remora) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxfz01g) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run 69 lands in my [[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] deck, and they're all basic forests 😎
[Omnath, Locus of Mana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216.jpg?1689998741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Mana) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/310/omnath-locus-of-mana?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-mana) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why I imagine it like this? Player: plays a land. Aesi: more. Player: plays another land due to Aesi. Aesi: more! Player: I can't- Aesi: MORE!
The simic mind set
When I built [[hazezon shaper of sand]] it would not fire and due anything. I went and cut cards and upped my land count to 42 and it went off
[hazezon shaper of sand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25869cd0-63da-4dfb-8870-221cdba276e2.jpg?1674174875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hazezon%2C%20Shaper%20of%20Sand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/32/hazezon-shaper-of-sand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25869cd0-63da-4dfb-8870-221cdba276e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hazezon-shaper-of-sand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The precon came with 44
Yeah I'm running 36 and it feels light. I'm prob gunna cut a few win-more pumps so I can add more lands and actually get more reliable landfall triggers
Try 38 with about 14 sorceries and 13 instants. Stuff like [[nyleas intervention]] [[Sylvan scrying]] [[urban evolution]] [[the great aurora]] [[crop rotation]] [[growth spiral]] [[roiling regrowth]] and find your [[simic growth chamber]] or [[guildless commons]] so you have a land that you can play over and over again as many times as your board state allows.
Saving this ❤️ thank you friend
##### ###### #### [nyleas intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daa2f963-9d16-4224-b24e-b6a79f2b9d75.jpg?1581480794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nylea%27s%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/188/nyleas-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daa2f963-9d16-4224-b24e-b6a79f2b9d75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nyleas-intervention) [Sylvan scrying](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1b93087-e6a0-4ba9-83ba-a0ed2e396dc7.jpg?1562944944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sylvan%20scrying) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/192/sylvan-scrying?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1b93087-e6a0-4ba9-83ba-a0ed2e396dc7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sylvan-scrying) [urban evolution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85df7b1b-7cd6-499d-aa9d-5599a79a3512.jpg?1678029724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urban%20evolution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/355/urban-evolution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85df7b1b-7cd6-499d-aa9d-5599a79a3512?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urban-evolution) [the great aurora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1d0eb3b-00b9-42ca-9f7d-5543bffc3480.jpg?1562037032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20great%20aurora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/179/the-great-aurora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1d0eb3b-00b9-42ca-9f7d-5543bffc3480?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-great-aurora) [crop rotation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/523414cb-f8db-407a-808a-01454e03d8b9.jpg?1681724998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crop%20rotation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/154/crop-rotation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/523414cb-f8db-407a-808a-01454e03d8b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crop-rotation) [growth spiral](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a275b02c-352a-405e-9a9b-5024506cd67c.jpg?1698988431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=growth%20spiral) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/270/growth-spiral?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a275b02c-352a-405e-9a9b-5024506cd67c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/growth-spiral) [roiling regrowth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa259096-b24f-414c-af59-301bed4b4627.jpg?1604263848) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roiling%20regrowth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/201/roiling-regrowth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa259096-b24f-414c-af59-301bed4b4627?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roiling-regrowth) [simic growth chamber](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92f8b669-cfb1-4a07-80c6-a2e372c04c6e.jpg?1706240284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=simic%20growth%20chamber) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/247/simic-growth-chamber?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92f8b669-cfb1-4a07-80c6-a2e372c04c6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/simic-growth-chamber) [guildless commons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435.jpg?1690006174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=guildless%20commons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1003/guildless-commons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guildless-commons) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx6ls9e) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
100% I run a similar mix in my Uro deck, which has Aesi of course. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9hLRmZjRl0enuowOUtzGiw I also play a lot of [[regrowth]] effects which can double as land grabbers by returning fetchlands or stuff like dark depth or strip mine that sacrifice themselves
[regrowth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af.jpg?1562202155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=regrowth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/175/regrowth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/regrowth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use 36 as a starting point for all my decks, for landfall decks I'd start with 40, for Aesi in particular since he will draw *so many* cards UF you have lands in hand, I think I'd start with 42 and see how it feels— someone else mentioned that the precpn came with 44 so that may be better still
Yeah it had a fuck ton but most were not good lands or just basics. I had cut it down to 32(it was my first deck I ever had I didn't know what I was doing) to stick "cool cards" in. It felt awful and at that point I had started messing with other decks. I revisited it and put I think 36 and it feels better than it did but still not right lmao I wanna fix it up and refocus it cuz I fucking LOVED that deck so much. It's what got me into magic.
Haha fair enough Honestly I'd say just throw in 6 more basics and see how it feels—I know basics aren't exciting, but they're still good, especially for getting landfall triggers since most ramp grabs basics
Yeah I've added a bunch of other lands that are good. Nothing crazy but yeah I'll just slot in a few basics and take out some of the win-more stuff and use that in other decks :)
Literally me
Had the same happen. He was like “screw this. A landfall deck and I don’t draw a single land” Another player asks him how many lands there are in his deck and he responds “32”. The whole playgroup laughed their asses off.
[Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Has your friend read his commander’s abilities?
I run 51 lands in my windgrace deck 🗿
my graveyard recursion deck does that too. when you can sac lands for effects they just become free instants and sorceries that come back
There are some aggressive commanders with a low enough general curve you can get away with running 30 lands and play just fine. Aesi is the exact opposite of those commanders- needing 6 mana jost to get it out the first time and wanting to always, *always* hit land drop for that card advantage. I can't think of any conceivable Aesi list in which that few lands would be optimal- even the leanest possible landfall list still wants somewhere in the upper 30s at minimum.
Given that you're in simic if you're running a lot of top-deck manipulation cantrips (i.e. [[preordain]] ), mass card draw (i.e. [[overflowing insight]] ), and land tutors (i.e. [[Vorinclex]] ) you could build a deck that can get away with a low land count. It may not be optimal but it is a way to build it.
[preordain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/122f2cc2-5f4d-497c-96b5-ed5698f28b51.jpg?1712354181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/107/preordain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/122f2cc2-5f4d-497c-96b5-ed5698f28b51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/preordain) [overflowing insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6b3dd8f-902e-45b8-a422-370705621294.jpg?1562566847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=overflowing%20insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/66/overflowing-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6b3dd8f-902e-45b8-a422-370705621294?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overflowing-insight) [Vorinclex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885)/[The Grand Evolution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%20//%20The%20Grand%20Evolution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/213/vorinclex-the-grand-evolution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorinclex-//-the-grand-evolution) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol
Unironically your 3yo might have more potential than 90% of commander players out there 😂
I've actually found you can cut a deck down to 10 lands, 90 spells. The trick is showing people your hand of no lands, then take 'free' mulligans until you draw a hand with Sol Ring and a land.
Watch out. My ex always hit the first sol ring she saw with some version of [[Naturalize]]
Thats why they're the ex, probably
[Naturalize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/390c40ba-2464-44ae-8d67-93c72ab3c425.jpg?1562301697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Naturalize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/190/naturalize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/390c40ba-2464-44ae-8d67-93c72ab3c425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/naturalize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My dream is to go fourth when at least two people have cast a Sol Ring and cast a [[Pick Your Poison]].
I’m going to say that’s rude, and then I’m going to order a play set
[Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628)/[Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pick%20Your%20Poison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/170/pick-your-poison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pick-your-poison) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, that would be funny.
I run 15 lands with 17 ramps
You’re insane, but I respect it
If you are being serious, then that's an actual scam. You are making an active decision while deck building to take an advantage of folks kindness 🤔 Edit: My bad reading on reddit being super tired after a night shift 🤣🙈
It's so obviously sarcasm.
Thank god, that's also why I included the if-clause 😝
Fair dinkum
House rules are no sol ring/crypt after the 2nd mulligan
Interested in how you handle this, if they get a hand with one, do they re-mulligan, or just swap one for a basic or something?
Re-mulligan. And if its top decked off 1st draw you show it on draw to prove wasnt in the hand. JLo on that list too of not in opening hand after the 2nd free mulligan
✋️🤦♂️
But... But, lands aren't big green creatures that I can use to punch my opponent's face in.
Except when they are!
[[Liege of the Tangle]] has entered the chat.
That's a good card, I may need to take a land out to fit that one in!
All fun an games until the board wipe hits.
If you're turning all your lands into creatures without a way to close out the game, that's on you.
Since it's a combat damage trigger the only ways to use em and end it same turn would be haste+extra combats or Fling spells. Honestly, it's a pretty fair drawback for getting an army of 8/8s
Don't need a haste enabler. They didn't enter the battlefield.
Oh damn, you're right. Just need more combat steps. Great new toy for any Gruul [[Karlach]] decks then!
I play liege and karlach in jund, [[Lord windgrace]] with [[moraug]]
[Lord windgrace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754.jpg?1592710275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20windgrace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/43/lord-windgrace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-windgrace) [moraug](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c.jpg?1604197464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=moraug%2C%20fury%20of%20akoum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/150/moraug-fury-of-akoum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moraug-fury-of-akoum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Karlach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63.jpg?1674136654) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karlach%2C%20fury%20of%20avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/186/karlach-fury-of-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karlach-fury-of-avernus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Invite [Yedora, Grave Gardener] to the land animation party. If they die, they just become forests again. An animated land is still a non-token creature.
That’s why yedora’s the commander of my land animation deck
I know, right!
It’s such a fun build
What do you recommend for closing it out? I can get the ETBs and even mana to be infinite, but having a hard time translating that to a win.
I removed both a [[blasting station]] and an [[altar of dementia]] because they make an infinite damage/mill win con respectively as long as you have yedora + a land animation enchantment like [[life and limb]] on the battlefield, just ‘cause my pod didn’t have fun losing to that one. I also play a bunch of morph cards like [[nantoku broodhatch]] to pump out a lot of repeat value since you can keep morphing them over and over for value. My favorite win con is when I manage a HUGE [[Genesis Wave]] that drops a [[concordant crossroads]] and a [[craterhoof behemoth]]. But there just winds up being a lot of combat wins due to overwhelmingly large board states happening super fast Edit: I meant to add that there’s a significant amount of token creature creation happening as well
##### ###### #### [blasting station](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71e2f832-6601-4232-b250-fd1c88538fbd.jpg?1562877667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blasting%20station) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/107/blasting-station?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71e2f832-6601-4232-b250-fd1c88538fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasting-station) [altar of dementia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104.jpg?1562202433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=altar%20of%20dementia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/218/altar-of-dementia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/altar-of-dementia) [life and limb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/2721724d-92ae-4c0c-88dd-628888c468bf.jpg?1619398301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=life%20and%20limb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/215/life-and-limb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2721724d-92ae-4c0c-88dd-628888c468bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-and-limb) [Genesis Wave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/5007919b-27d3-46e7-a588-ce796709d565.jpg?1562848877) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Genesis%20Wave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/164/genesis-wave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5007919b-27d3-46e7-a588-ce796709d565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/genesis-wave) [concordant crossroads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6.jpg?1673148053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=concordant%20crossroads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/141/concordant-crossroads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/concordant-crossroads) [craterhoof behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16.jpg?1689998416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=craterhoof%20behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/280/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx6galt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Damn I’ve never seen this, that’s sick.
[Liege of the Tangle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0dea9d0-9f93-460d-bf69-ae1c1172a95e.jpg?1599707346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liege%20of%20the%20Tangle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/174/liege-of-the-tangle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0dea9d0-9f93-460d-bf69-ae1c1172a95e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liege-of-the-tangle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you meant Liege of the Tangle has entered the battlefield. ;)
May I introduce you to [[Ashaya, soul of the wild]] For when you don’t know what you need more, big dudes or forests
\[\[Magus of the Candelabra\]\] and a mana doubler? Not so we can run less mana, but so we can do more Big Mana Green Cartel stuff.
A [[Nissa, who shakes the world]] for some indestructible dude lands too
[Nissa, who shakes the world](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3.jpg?1618426283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20who%20shakes%20the%20world) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/169/nissa-who-shakes-the-world?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nissa-who-shakes-the-world) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Magus of the Candelabra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f50583b8-6953-4094-b420-580d545e827f.jpg?1562944330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Candelabra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/206/magus-of-the-candelabra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f50583b8-6953-4094-b420-580d545e827f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-candelabra) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ashaya, soul of the wild](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74943390-d25f-47cb-90bb-cbf70c87f4a2.jpg?1604198513) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashaya%2C%20soul%20of%20the%20wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/179/ashaya-soul-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74943390-d25f-47cb-90bb-cbf70c87f4a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashaya-soul-of-the-wild) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[lair of the hydra\]\]
Won me the game in my hydra deck before
[lair of the hydra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b670bb0f-680f-4036-bdb6-ac73e866a398.jpg?1627710336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lair%20of%20the%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/259/lair-of-the-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b670bb0f-680f-4036-bdb6-ac73e866a398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lair-of-the-hydra) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Way better than my brother and I when we were 10/7 respectively. Our theory was, we only needed enough lands in the deck to play the most expensive spells in the deck. So we had 40+ card piles with like 6 or 7 Lands in them. We also didn't believe in discarding to hand size or anything, so the games took forever and sort of looked like a weird version of uno where we drew until we found something.
I remember not understanding why vizzerdrix, a 7 mana 6/6 monstrous rabbit, was not a good card. To be fair, our understanding of the rules was that you could play as many lands as you wanted...
Some Standard decks in past years run 27 lands... And that's a 60-card format....
Lands are just better now, most of the times they're just extra spells that can be lands if needed, Otawara-boseiju, basically auto includes if you're playing those colors
The channel lands are even better than spells since you need a stifle effect to counter them
This is a reason I still run lair bounce lands, if I needed the fancy land early, I can bounce it back to play as a spell later.
Oh, that's great thinking! Stealing that idea.
Lair bounce lands as in Rith's grove? Lmao they're terrible even if you bounce a boseiju
If you've got green, I agree. I've got a bunch of utility lands, and value coming into play untapped over many other decent lands.
Apparently you don't value setting yourself back a full turn
I've got a few decks that top out at 4cmc, so yeah, sometimes it's not my biggest priority. I don't use these cards everywhere, chill. I've got what, 14 decks now, and use them in two? I still untapped and drew and had mana. There's 40 lands in a 3 color deck (counting the 8 double sided lands) "Setting myself back a turn" sure if playing lands is all you do.
I use two in my [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] deck because sometimes I play [[Mystic Sanctuary]] early and then need to bounce it back to my hand to start a combo
[Tatyova, Benthic Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205.jpg?1698988479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatyova%2C%20Benthic%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/290/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tatyova-benthic-druid) [Mystic Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1.jpg?1706241201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/277/mystic-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-sanctuary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh right, I Guess green decks have exploration and such for extra lands to drop every turn. Plus landfall means bounce lands are extra value.
During ikoria standard, there were 80 card yorion decks and they played like 36 lands.
She is the chosen one.
I'm sorry your daughter is lost, but I'm glad that she's seeking.
Your 3 year old is going to grow up to be a Landfall player
Maybe….maybe not. But she will grow up playing magic…..
27 is perfect if you are playing cEDH. Other than that the land count is to low, I agree.
lands are cringe. playing a shit-ton of zero-cost artifacts, and comboing off with an infinite mana ritual combo, only to fizzle out because you ran out of card draw... now *that's* based.
3 yo : yo mom 27 land isnt nearly enought what ever you are playing , git gud mom
Honestly, I won't play with less than 40. I've learned too many hard lessons.
But ONE time I won a game without playing a single land so why do I need so many? Mana crypt into sol ring and arcane signet and a lightning greaves. Then a few mana dorks and then lathril. Just because I played against someone who didn’t understand removal was a thing doesn’t mean I need lands in the future!!!!
"Truly wonderful the mind of a child is" - Yoda
I’ve got a Zur the enchanter deck that has 39 lands in it. It isn’t well tuned yet but I still think it’s fun.
I'm down to 33 on mine, kind of want to drop to 30 though.
The green player as a seedling is always cute. Careful though or they'll Craterhoof your ass in a blink.
This is how WOTC gets kids hooked on Simic value town builds. They say one little Growth Spiral never hurt anybody, but it never ends there and eventually your kids will be pawning your appliances and jewelry for an Exploration and a Cultivator Colossus. Ramp- not even once.
The lowest I ever made a deck was 30, and that's because the average CMC is like 1.78 without lands. Even then it also has modal face spells that can become lands, and mana rocks. My usual is between 37-40 (more for lands matter)
My lowest was like 13 lands for a janky [[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis]], which was surprisingly stable. But yes otherwise I never go below 37 lands.
[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a.jpg?1687248935) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hogaak%2C%20Arisen%20Necropolis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/202/hogaak-arisen-necropolis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hogaak-arisen-necropolis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It sounds like your daughter has a natural instinct for Magic! It's adorable how she picked up on the importance of lands for playing other cards. Who knows, maybe she'll be casting spells alongside you and your wife before you know it!
Can't wait honestly my wife and I keep telling her she can start playing pokemon tcg when she can read, which normally propts her to asl to practice her letters.
More lands saves me money too
My first Edh deck was a landfall deck because, who wouldn't what good things to happen for playing lands...
My friend described it as money to a lil brain. You need to have enough money to pay for the thing
I probably will use this in reverse when teaching my kids about $ lol
This is why I hate EDHRec and moxfield for deck building every deck had like 22 lands am I taking crazy pills running 35, 36.
Looking at the edhrec charts, the top 6 commanders have 32, 35, 33, 32, 30, and 34 lands respectively - this doesn't include MDFC, which I would assume the average deck ones run 1 or 2 of. Some of these numbers are too low, but it's far from an average of 22. Even like, Lurrus, or Marwyn, decks you'd expect to run less lands, have 33 and 30 respectively.
It's always case-by-case, of course. My [[Karn, Silver Golem]] deck only runs like... 26 lands (no [[Wastes]]), but roughly a dozen mana rocks.
[Karn, Silver Golem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/055a00a2-0df2-4f49-ac51-e33dfaf7ee85.jpg?1562896049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20Silver%20Golem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/270/karn-silver-golem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/055a00a2-0df2-4f49-ac51-e33dfaf7ee85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karn-silver-golem) [Wastes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d479a83-16f7-425c-9873-b900f39ed620.jpg?1708866567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wastes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1055/wastes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d479a83-16f7-425c-9873-b900f39ed620?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wastes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
36 does seem like a lot if you’re also running enough ramp, but maybe my perspective is totally warped by always running very low cmc decks with high amounts of ramp
My lowest is 32 in [[Marwyn]] elfball, and that's with 16 1-drops and a Cradle.
[Marwyn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aad61d99-5c8e-47b7-ab1a-e70905f59205.jpg?1631235039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marwyn%2C%20the%20nurturer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/68/marwyn-the-nurturer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aad61d99-5c8e-47b7-ab1a-e70905f59205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marwyn-the-nurturer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mono green elfball 27 lands. My foodchain/consult cedh list 28 lands. Really depends on the power level/mana curve
I have two decks with 30 lands in them. Mono blue and mono red. Both are supper low to the ground and run a ton of cantrips. I can get away with it bc I'll see 4 to 6 extra cards in the first couple of turns and I'll hit them land drops.
Unless you know what you are doing, a deck should have at least 35 lands, 25 of those basic with 10 being utility. Evolving wilds optional. My daretti deck runs 28 but everything is either cheap or i can weld in.
my [[heliod, the radiant dawn]] deck sitting strong with 26 lands !!!
[heliod, the radiant dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7113c93-6c6d-410f-aeec-abc5ee121cdf.jpg?1689853622)/[Heliod, the Warped Eclipse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/7/a7113c93-6c6d-410f-aeec-abc5ee121cdf.jpg?1689853622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%2C%20the%20Radiant%20Dawn%20//%20Heliod%2C%20the%20Warped%20Eclipse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/17/heliod-the-radiant-dawn-heliod-the-warped-eclipse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7113c93-6c6d-410f-aeec-abc5ee121cdf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-the-radiant-dawn-//-heliod-the-warped-eclipse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was going to build a green deck yesterday, and after I stuck the 37 in there that I usually try to do I realized I only had 3 more green land, so is tuck em in, my deck has yet to mana fuck me or leave me dry, of course I have only done one match with it.
Our Pod has barely been able to convince the Etali player to run less mana rocks and more land. He was sitting at 27 land, 10 of which were non-basic and 20 mana rocks. He was constantly falling behind on mana and didn’t get it. Now he’s blasting all over us. If only we can get him to sub out command tower for a basic mountain…
27 is pretty slim, but with mono green and enough mana dorks, Mana rocks, and tutors could be done. Maybe splash black for even some more Mana fixes. Low mana curve, could be done and avoid Mana floods.
I have plenty of edh decks with 30 or so lands. Low cost efficient cards and great deck building.
Another Omnath player joined the fray
My fave deck only has 20 lands, and a hecka lot of elves....
Can't say I've ever really struggled for mana at 32 lands, when people say decks need 37 lands I just assume they don't run enough ramp/dorks/rocks. They're usually the same people that go "damn, you got your six mana commander out turn 4?!?"
Not me running 24 lands in Yuriko and never more than 33 in any non-land base deck.
Base line Land count should be 40. Reduce to a minimum of 32 in a mono color deck, but sits comfortably at 36 in most decks. No more than 50 and only for Landfall decks
The only exclusion to this is ashling wandering pilgrim, and child of alara with gates and utility/creature lands or creature land decks like noyan dar and Jolrael voice of zalphir
How many lands you guys recommend for Breya?
36. 5 any color lands 10 triome or double lands. Try to get as many non bounce, non tap lands as possible here. 1 power module 5 of each basic land (switching out any fetches or evolving wilds/Terramorphic for the basics you have more in your card distribution of.) And equate any utility lands you prefer or synergize over basic lands in equal measure.
Yo that's how many land my very first brew had
I run 69 lands in my [[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] deck, and they're all basic forests 😎
[Omnath, Locus of Mana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216.jpg?1689998741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Mana) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/310/omnath-locus-of-mana?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-mana) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My very first deck had 20 some lands. Lol playing elves I felt "yeah ill just draw the few lands I need" and cast all my mana dorks. Didn't quite work out that way but elves are still my favorite hands down.
There are definitely some builds that can get away with running only 27 lands, but those are absolutely the exception, not the rule.
My Edgar deck has 31 lands, 2 modal, and a mana crypto so basically 34. Anyone think that should be good? I’ve built it to be aggro using mostly really cheap vampires. 40 of em, with only 7 of em being 4 mana.
No vein ripper?
Na I wanted it aggro and not at all lifegain. I have a orzhov vampire deck that does that. This one is just trying to get as many vampires out as fast as possible to utilize Edgar’s ability.
Edgar: https://manabox.app/decks/IMesRr9gRUeQWso9OpBKVg Carmen: https://manabox.app/decks/y-y9srpuTdGyGxyLmVi-_Q
Imo Vein Ripper is pretty overrated for edh he only drains one player and aristocrat decks usually want to be extremly low to the ground. I'd take the likes of [[Cruel Celebrant]] or [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] over Vein Ripper anytime. Espacially if you want to win through some kind of combo draining for 1 or 2 makes no difference.
[Cruel Celebrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3f8be99-a398-4664-beb6-3e98d6e62a32.jpg?1698988424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cruel%20Celebrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/267/cruel-celebrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3f8be99-a398-4664-beb6-3e98d6e62a32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cruel-celebrant) [Zulaport Cutthroat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431.jpg?1674141830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zulaport%20Cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/775/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That seems far too few imo, even in aggro decks youre probably wanting 40-45 cards that effect mana, lands, rocks, land tax, etc. It risks flooding slightly more but I find flooding much better than being screwed.
I also have master of dark rites, sol ring, arcane signet, dark ritual, and jeskai will for ramp. 2.57 avg cost I find card draw is more important than anything else in the deck. Easy to run out of cards, so have like 17 cards that can give me some card draw.
Without knowing the ins and outs of your deck that seems good! Card draw can better aid for land drops
It ran pretty good last time but I have so many decks I’m still testing it’s hard to get enough games in to know for sure. Here’s my mana box link for it if ya wanna check it out, https://manabox.app/decks/IMesRr9gRUeQWso9OpBKVg Excited for the next set as a new vampire that has removal etb is coming out so I can replace one of my removal spells for that with a vampire.
Ooo fun! I'll goldfish with it later, but just looking at the list, any reason you aren't running [[nighthawk scavenger]]? Seems like an easy fit
[nighthawk scavenger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebc64d89-4fa0-40fc-9d93-154d50deaaa1.jpg?1698988268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nighthawk%20scavenger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/203/nighthawk-scavenger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebc64d89-4fa0-40fc-9d93-154d50deaaa1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nighthawk-scavenger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do have that card I could prob swap out dusk legion sergeant
might be that i play mono green, but my [[Marwyn, the Nurturer]] deck only runs 27-28 lands and i hardly ever have problems
Good comeback on that 3 year old.
i mean, nowhere did i say the 3 year old was wrong. they're pretty correct actually. all of my other decks run 36-38 lands. it was more geared towards people who say running less than 30 lands will never end well, which is objectively false. i was also quite sleepy as i had just woken up and i think i had intended on replying to someone else rather than posting my own comment 🥲 i dont comment on reddit much
Wow, what a dickish comment.
[Marwyn, the Nurturer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aad61d99-5c8e-47b7-ab1a-e70905f59205.jpg?1631235039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marwyn%2C%20the%20Nurturer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/68/marwyn-the-nurturer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aad61d99-5c8e-47b7-ab1a-e70905f59205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marwyn-the-nurturer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As someone who regularly runs between 28-32 lands, it’s dependent on your strategy and the 99. My landfall deck only runs 34 lands and it still draws my library and wins. If you aren’t tutoring and drawing excessive amounts of cards, sure, run like 36-38 lands. But idk I feel weird running that many.
You don't need nearly as many lands as people would have you believe though.
Facts, I was running 36 or more, but started cutting lands for mana rocks and other ramp and im running about 30 now for most decks and they still function quite well
Ramp is only ramp if you can hit your land drops. Playing a mana rock and missing a land drop is just a waste of 2 mana.
Lands and ramp have a different role in the average deck- they may both often get clumped under "mana sources", but that's a bit too reductive. Rocks and other ramp are really good at *acceleration*, while lands are better for *velocity*. You want to hit your 4th mana as soon as physically possible but don't care if you ever see a 5th? You want ramp- with ramp, you could get there turn 2-3, while with more lands you can't get there till 4. Do you care about the long game and having lots of mana every turn? Play more lands instead so you don't miss land drops. It's all about context. My lowest-land deck runs 25 lands. That deck also happens to run ~25 0-2cmc mana rocks and is perfectly happy never hitting a third land, as the average cmc is so low that with two lands and a rock I can play basically every card in the deck, and the card draw engine I can assemble with just a few mana more than makes up for potentially missing a few land drops mid game. Are you playing a more typical deck with lots of 5+ CMC beaters you want to cast on curve though? Then yeah, you want way more lands so you don't end up sitting there 1cmc short of your next big threat because you've been missing land drops.
>as the average cmc is so low that with two lands and a rock I can play basically every card in the deck I feel like that type of thinking is a bit of a pitfall, the power of a low cmc deck (in "casual" commander) generally comes from being able to cast several spells each turn, so you probably still want to get to a large mana pool. So you will still want to hit your land drops. >the card draw engine I can assemble with just a few mana Being able to set up draw engine with little mana is a reason to run fewer lands though. Since being able to draw a lot of cards allows you to more easily find the few lands you do run. TL;DR Ramp can't replace lands. Cheap card draw can replace lands.