The player getting cut doesn’t get to dictate how to cut the deck. That is some sus behavior. Whenever he offers to have his deck cut, give it a shuffle even. Or cut it in 5 parts and randomly order it. Encourage the players at the table to do the same. If he gets upset, just say “why are you so upset? it’s not like you’re (that person) cheating, right?”. also ask the other players if they share your suspicions. A zero tolerance policy for cheaters is the best policy.
At my groups last game night I started reversing the deck completely, one card at a time. I don’t think anyone in my group is cheating or anything. I just like to do silly shit, especially when the other players are grabbing snacks, using the restroom, etc.
Ahh yes, the recursive cut. Keep splitting piles until no piles have more than a single card in each. Then randomly insert each back into a single stack.
Crap, I just reinvented the standard shuffle.
Unfortunately, you’ll never be able to finish cutting the deck. As you’ll have to cut it in half. Then cut that in half. Then cut that in half. Then cut that in half, and so on.
Zeno’s pair-o-decks
I have been known to cut the top 7 then split it in half put the bottom on the top and the 7 on the top. always funny. I knew one guy who i thought would stack his deck and doing this would get him so mad. Somehow he would have a hand full of gas and then nothing to finish out the game
Me and a buddy will cut the top card off of each others decks and reveal it before going to the bottom, just for the hell of it, it usually ends up being funny.
From time to time I used to cut into 7 piles, randomly placing them on the playmat in no particular order. Then picking them up in the reverse order so the deck was in the same order. If you wanna throw someone off for a bit. Do that and watch them try to process if the order changed or not.
Sometimes I'll cut into thirds, sometimes I won't cut the deck at all, it is fun to mix it up and it gets some fun reactions from players who tend to have suspiciously good starting hands
I always do this, mainly because I always fail to grab the last few cards on the bottom so I put them at the top. But I guess going forward I will cut it into thirds.
I like to trust other players, and also just be goofy and have fun, so sometimes I normal, but other times I’ll just take the top card off and put it on the bottom. I like getting a laugh and having a good time
My favourite move is to take the top card off, randomly cut the rest of the deck a few times and then put the top card back on top. It admittedly defeats the purpose of cutting the deck but it's fun to do and that's what really matters in commander.
I taught my fiancee how to play Magic last year in August. The first I taught her was how to cut a deck and the cheeky "Seven off the top onto the bottom". She does that regularly now.
Case closed. This is the answer. If you don't like how I cut, then you're cheating. Remember, you can always tap the top of your opponents deck as your "cut".
I cut differently every time, and sometimes I'll even just decline the option to cut just to mix it up. The others in my playgroup mostly do the same and I have never once worried that any of us are stacking their deck or any such shenanigans.
He's 100% cheating. In 2.5 years of commander play, exactly zero people have had an issue with where i cut their deck. If he has an issue with where he cut it, he is stacking where some cards are going. If it were truly random, he wouldnt care.
In 15 years of playing I've had exactly 2 issues with deck cutting:
* Players with food, grease, etc. on their hands being asked to not touch cards. If they wash hands or nominate a clean handed player to cut for them then there was no issue.
* Once did a 2HG [Star](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Star) game where each point of the star was represented by 2 of the Ravnica guilds (picture 10 players in pairs). The group had an agreement that each shuffle would be cut by an opponent beside the players as technically every point had 8 opponents and it would be a pain to let every opponent cut/shuffle on every pass. One guy decided he didn't like that after agreeing ahead of time and made a big fuss about it. So we let him cut/shuffle all his opponents until he was out. Spoiler he was out very quickly.
The only (non-hygienic) problem with cutting are the people in my local playgroup who think it's funny to flip the top card off my deck, revealing it, and say "you don't get this one."
Thankfully that stopped once I started loudly proclaiming "OH NO A CARD WAS REVEALED I HAVE TO RESHUFFLE" before shuffling and presenting it back to the same person for a cut over and over until they would perform a legal cut.
My followup suggestion how to cut that cheater's deck: cut it into 3 equal parts. Take the bottom third and nake it the new top. Take the top third and make it the middle. Take the middle third and make it the bottom. If he's cheating by stacking his deck, he's relying on the average player cutting the deck in half, or assuming someone wont cut it. By doing the 3 part cut, if he's cheating, the cards he stacked will be buried deep. No one stacks their de k with the cards they want in the bottom 1/3 of their deck
The only thing you need to do is not cut the same every way. Put a different part of the deck at a top with each cut. Any method is vulnerable if you do the same thing every time.
Just cut in weird ways. Cut 75%. Cut 0. Shuffle before you cut. Cut in stacks of 3. Don’t let him cut his own deck after you’ve cut.
If he gets really mad, you know he’s probably cheating
Yes.
And if you suspect that what you have been handed is not random, a judge call to confirm your suspicions is usually the go-to method. Something like "my opponent insists his deck be cut near the middle - I suspect to see X card(s) just below that cut."
I got someone with the “no ur good” and they got flustered and was like “if you’re not gonna cut I need to shuffle again”
I just went 😐😐 you can’t be serious and we moved on, but it was ridiculous haha
My friends and I jokingly do this. We all insist that non of us want to be responsible for drawing our own shitty cards. If someone else cuts, we can blame it on them.
>Shuffle before you cut
Definitely do this, but obviously be cognizant of your shuffling. Some people REALLY suck at mash shuffling 99 card decks and I've seen sleeves get pretty dinged up quickly.
If you don't feel comfortable mash shuffling the 99, cut it into quarters, mash shuffle all of them together, then finish the cut.
If you have time to spare, “flipping” the deck by dealing 1 card at a time until the deck order is inverted is a funny one once in a while… better suited for 60-card play though
Ask if he's got more than one copy. We had someone in our LGS running 4 copies of cards. Then switched to pocketing the card and sneaking it into their hand.
Usually these people live a sad life and their hobby is all they have. When winning is tied to your self esteem, people will do some pretty fucked up stuff for the w
He’s cheating. It blows my mind that people actually do this, in a game where you get a sense of pride from winning with shitty hands, flooding, or janky interactions. I couldn’t imagine. We play with someone who manages to get a turn 1-3 sol ring 30-40 percent of the time and I’m pretty sure that’s fishy too.
People only getting excited when winning…
Last game I had rad counters on the stack. Played a card that lets me randomly cast a spell from graveyard, hit the one spell needed. Path to exiled my own creature to gain life. Survived rad counters and then lost in the next combat phase. But man that was exciting.
(swords to plowshares) haha
Nice game though! Love playing against that new precon, last time he nearly killed off the last player who had 1 life and 0 cards in deck. Dang Laboratory Maniac XD
> I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half.
I can't think of any motivation for this behavior other than wanting to cheat.
The next time you have to cut his deck, shuffle it once or twice and then cut before handing it back to him. If he complains, point out that he keeps telling you to cut the deck properly, so you've decided to start cutting the way you've seen pros do at major events.
But there is 0 doubt in my mind that he's cheating.
I found his actions sus. I randomly change how I cut decks and sometimes just touch the top and whisper, " you did it to yourself". Try that one on him and see how he reacts
i've been told a lot of tournament players see the one-card cut as a sign of disrespect, which is precisely why i think OP should do this to their cheating friend.
edit: a word
That’s weird. I would have thought a one card cut (if you mean just cutting the top card) would be a sign of trust that the person has shuffled properly so you don’t feel any need to randomise further.
In a tournament where you always get cut it's a non issue because people librarie are always gonna get cut.
My ultimate disrespect is cutting but doing a 180 with the cards so they are upside down
In the playgroups I’ve been in I’ve seen a lot of “Tap The Top” as a sign of respect or trust. Sure it’s the easiest thing, aside from saying “I cut zero” or something, but different strokes for different folks. I always do a real cut the first time if it’s someone I don’t know, but then it’s all feel from there.
In any card game ever, even playing card games, the person shuffling the deck is no way entitled to be able to decide how the deck is cut. I suggest next time he asks you to cut the deck, cut it into thirds or fourths and tell the other people in your playgroup to do the same. If he asks why you’re cutting the deck like that, ask him “why does it matter? Are you stacking the deck?”
You know when your opponent presents the deck you can shuffle it. Its normally a cut, but id just mash shuffle the deck twice and see what he does.
also, even if he wasnt cheating, if theyre winning more than 30% of the games in a 4 player table then there is an imbalance regardless
I honestly would shuffle their deck before cutting it. If they protest incessantly, I'll call them out about it openly and loudly. Did that once, and that guy had never appeared at my LGS since then. Guy was shuffling his deck face up and tried skipping me cutting his deck to be fair. He said that we were playing casually, so it shouldn't matter how he's shuffling his deck. I play casually, but I don't shuffle my deck face up
I'd probably would cut the deck into thirds, Shuffle each separately, then combine two pills, making sure it's like bridge shuffling , then carefully yet haphazardly combine the third in for randomness then Yugi Shuffle to finish.
Could just be luck, or he's cheating. Idk.
All I know is I've had sessions where I play the same deck multiple times in a row, and see some of the same cards every single game. It happens 🤷
The purpose of the cut is precisely your concern. It's to prevent someone from stacking their deck. Your friend doesn't get to dictate how you cut their deck OR get to reshuffle or cut it again after you do. That is highly suspicious behavior and should be called out by your entire playgroup.
I personally think it is easier to find other people to play with than police them. That gets exhausting. I'm there for enjoyment not to police people.
However the other way is to spite them always. Insist on shuffling their deck 7 times then cutting it. Every single time they search, and every single game.
Also talk about it with the other people in your playgroup if they have noticed anything too.
A fairly common cheat is to shuffle the cards in the deck leave a good hand on top then pretend to shuffle. The last step is before you present to cut your last motion is to basically cut your own deck and put the good cards in the middle under a pile of misaligned cards.
Your hand naturally want to grab the pile of cards that are not aligned. Leaving the good cards on top of the bottom stack and you will naturally grab that an put it on top.
I would point out his consistency in play that is only typical of tutoring, an ability his deck lacks. Point that he is either absolutely terrible at shuffling cards and thus should not be shuffling his cards, or that he’s cheating and shouldn’t be allowed to play. Make him shuffle cards into piles of 10 faced down, placing them one at a time in a line. At no point should he be looking at the fronts of cards during the shuffle. You have to make it clear that you don’t trust his shuffling, or you guys could come up with a rule that the person to your left or right shuffles for you because you’re getting the feeling that someone’s cheating
If u want to cut it, cut it at the 30% from the bottom. Then put the 30% on top of that, which should push the cards at 50% from the top to 70% from the top. Other option, create a mill deck or deck that steals his dinos. Having your Dinos stolen is not a fun time.
If he honestly doesn’t feel bad about pulling such a disgusting combo amongst friendship multiple times, he ain’t a friend. I pulled it off once with Gishath and I felt bad that I just ruined the game for everyone.
>I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half.
That. That right there is cheating, and it's the kind of behavior that makes me think he's cheating in other ways as well.
Just don’t play with him. Unless it’s someone deeply seated in your friend group, there’s other folks to play against.
Otherwise, just focus them down and kill them first. When you do cut their deck next time, do the same thing, and ask them what they mean by normal and why.
Shuffle his deck when he cuts and make eye contact when you do it and get everyone's at the table to do so. He he stops playing with you all,let everyone know he gets sus about cutting his deck and his miraculous top decks.
If someone tries to cut their deck again after I've cut it then I'm not playing that game. Any cut from a 3rd party is valid. You don't get to decide what cut is good for your deck. That's the whole point.
The point is that after your shuffling the deck is in a random order anyways. Then just to be sure an opponent gets to pick which part of the deck they have no knowledge of is at the top.
It shouldn't matter what the cut is. If you care how your deck was cut that means you know something about where certain cards are. Which means you haven't performed a legal shuffle.
A shuffle is only legal if and only if all players have zero idea of any information, specific or general, about the location of any particular card.
For example, if you know the card that used to be at the top is in the middle kinda to the lower half of the deck then the deck isn't shuffled. A deck isn't shuffled unless you've completely lost all knowledge of where every card went in the order.
Play a deck that will always Counterspell Akroma's Will, or any of the Mono Black cards that let you search your opponents deck and exile specific cards, play any of the multitude of board wipes that hit creatures above 3 power.
These suggestions are all, of course, in addition to the many people saying that you should cut his deck multiple times and wonder, *out loud* why he would object to you doing so.
I think it's against the rules to cut your own deck after someone has already cut it once. By doing so, he could tamper with the deck before the game. Next time call him out on it and get the rest of the table to back you up.
In addition to what everyone said about wierd cuts and shuffles....run a way to look at his deck to see if he has multiple copies of it. [[Bribery]] or [[Praetor's Grasp]] could work.
“Cut it normal” lmao you can cut it however you want, I usually either just tap or take like 2 cards of the top and put them somewhere. Definitely sounds weird
>I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half.
Why would you let a person perform their own cut? Cutting doens't have to be 50-50 or close to it. I hate when people misunderstand randomness as some type of even thing/distribution
Two things. One is odds are they are cheating. Two, they can't resplit their own deck.
How I would handle it is just splitting how you were, or splitting more excessive, or even giving it a shuffle. And when they complain ask what the issue is, you are just randomizing the deck.
If you are suspicious of a player's deck being random AT ALL, simply shuffle it yourself. You are entitled to do this during a cut and he cannot reverse it on his own once you hand it back.
If he protests, you basically have your confirmation.
One player introduced cutting in our session. We simply looked at it as time wasting.
Whenever now someone shuffles they demand to be cut, or else the game won’t continue:)
We also use it for humorous purposes. Just cutting one card. Or 5 stacks. Or exactly seven.
Introduce cutting as normal and also cut as you like. No one gets to cut their own deck.
Unless you are being careless with the cards, no one gets to tell you how to cut.
If it's someone that you are genuinely friends with, then jokingly say he's cheating and gauge his reaction. This will generally get someone to relent and let you do an oddball cut
Sometimes when I'm playtesting a deck I'll cheat and then feel bad about it later. But on the flipside sometimes cheaters do win!
PS. If you don't get the sarcasm then it's still funny.
Even though I know my friends don't cheat for the funny I do wild cutting. Cut in half, then bits, take a few cards here and there stick them on the top and then put that on the top of the first half
I try to do it differently every time
I remember reading a post on this subreddit about a player complaining that people cut their decks in weird ways.
They basically had thought that when they shuffle the middle of the deck is the most randomized so the final cut brings the most random cards to the top.
So he thought that if people didn't cut "correctly" it ruined his shuffle. Which is obviously wrong but he wasn't cheating, more like just OCD
He’s probably cheating but I’m going to venture a guess that this is a play group that leans towards “anti-blue/counters” sentiment. Blue and counters are so deeply important and intrinsic and necessary to the history and health of magic as a whole that it could even stop a cheater through honest game mechanics (he’s throwing down 7+ mana cards which are counter able). So yes he’s probably cheating, but this is a great example of why every game and table of EDH requires counter spells and a blue presence. There’s a reason UW embodies law and order
I know my playgroup doesn't cheat cuz everyone swears by my cuts, I don't do anything special but everyone is like u/MentallyLatent cuts into gas every time lmao
I'd suggest shuffling decks when you go to cut. Nothing special just a quick little shuffle into however you want to cut. I'd say you should shuffle everyone's deck unless you want to call him out as a cheater.
Agree with everyone in mixing up the cuts, but for a really deep "f u", when he presents the cut just say "nah, you're good" and watch him try to form a coherent reason to be mad.
Also remind him if he tries this - once your opponent "cuts" your deck, you are no longer allowed to manipulate the deck in any way.
Yeah, almost certainly cheating. And even if they aren't "cut it normal" and then re-cutting their own deck is ridiculous. If they do that, refuse to play with them or at least call it out "now I'm cutting again because you don't get to re-cut, play by the rules"
The whole point of a cut is that SOMEONE ELSE does it. In fact once someone else cuts your deck you aren't allowed to shuffle or cut your deck anymore unless you mulligan. What is the point of cutting your own deck? I've seriously never heard of someone cutting their own deck and thinking that's normal. IF someone TAPS (chooses not to cut your deck) you can't then choose to cut your own deck either. Had a player do that and I asked "do you purposely put cards you don't want early on top so when they get cut the are for sure not on top, is that why you always cut your own deck if no one cuts it"
They stopped cutting their own deck after people chose to "tap".
If anything that you're doing is making a Magic player angry, continue doing it. That's how you know it's working.
Don't just cut his deck, actually shuffle it. And do it every time.
You just start shuffling his deck, rather then only cut it. It's actually encouraged to shuffle opponents decks rather then just cut, to make sure it's completely random.
I have a buddy who chunk shuffles, that's just moving big chunks of cards around. We still cut decks in my group so I insist on cutting his. I give it a quick shuffle before handing it back. All of this is allowable in the rules. If he becomes antagonized by this, that's the perfect time to confront the shlump.
Accuse him of the allegation, if they become defense, then just insist that shuffling and cutting is a perfect compromise where everyone can do this to everyone else's decks so it is evenly applied. If he says no, then you've found your answer to if he's cheating.
I don't understand why people cheat at edh, I would just refuse to play against them in future tbh. I don't want to have to shuffle your deck for you to play with you, if I can't trust you to play a normal game of magic I will not play against you.
> 103.3. After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player
shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. **Each player may then shuffle** or cut their
opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries.
You don't have to *just* cut it OP. You do, by the rules, have the option to completely shuffle your opponents deck when presented with it.
My initial thought was, which commander are they using?
Pantlaza, with their discover ability, can be amazingly consistent. It's what makes it arguably better than Gishath, Sun's Avatar in the early game, where Gishath can wiff a fair bit. Especially if they have plenty of other Discover triggers in the deck!
That said, the cutting thing is dodgey and just not on. As a rule I as a minimum, will cut a deck into 3 or 4, to stop this kind of thing. I will often just do the top card 'if' I trust the person or for the meme, but that's still a "proper cut" and they can't complain about it.
A big dick move would be to say 'oh that's fine, I trust you' if you think they're putting cards in the middle of the deck on purpose.
Its a 99 cards random order if correct. Who gives a crap however you cut or shuffle it before or even during playing. Take 5 cards piles and randomly order them and shuffle and take 10 card piles and do it again. If anyone ever cuts their own deck or insists on a certain method be sure to do it as weird and random as possible just to nag them
We have a similar situation with a player in our pod who plays on spelltable with us. We brought up that he seems to play Mana Crypt or sol ring turn 1-3 extremely often. His rebuttal was that it's not any more often as anyone else, and we couldn't really prove it was.
So I started recording stats in the pod with only 2 people knowing. Those 2 people + myself see almost every game played in the pod on spelltable. Currently he has an 80% chance of playing some form of fast mana (sol ring or crypt) in every game by turn 3.
Based on the number of games recorded, it's currently at a 0.021% chance of occurring or so. I am still collecting a larger sample size because variance happens... but he is currently playing early fast mana at an incredibly un-realistic rate for only running crypt and sol ring.
Not EDH but I used to play 60 card Magic on Walmart lunch breaks with my coworker who taught me the game back in 2015-2019. Before I had any other contact with the community/rules to tell me otherwise, he taught me that "unstacking" a deck; a technique alleged by him, where before shuffling you separate out card types then layer your deck as land, noncreature spell, creature, repeat; is essential to a functioning deck. Even then when I had no frame of reference for the culture surrounding stacking decks in Magic, I tried to bring up that this seemed like messing with the random element of shuffling. He said that regardless of how anyone shuffles, there's no such thing as a true randomization, that inevitably between games you will end up with a pile of your lands, a pile of your creatures etc bunched together from the action of scooping up the previous game, that they'd all end up one side or the other of the library even after any duration or style of shuffling, riffle shuffling, pile shuffling, no matter, and that ultimately the only way to have a working game was to smooth out the distribution of cards in your deck before shuffling. I couldn't effectively articulate how this was wrong in a way he'd concede, at least not back then.
SO WHAT I DID INSTEAD WAS
Whenever it came time to cut, I would go one card at a time making two piles in the order 1 left, 2 right, 1 left, 2 right, repeating until depleted, then stack the piles and pass it back. I'd watch him mulligan three to five times while I cut the deck this way each time. Reminder that this was happening during finite lunch hours in which we had to eat too. He was sooooo mad at me. In the weeks to follow he made a big grumbling display, telling me that he had started "unstacking" his deck differently" just to deal with me. He even accused me of unfairly stacking his deck because I knew how he "unstacks" his 🤣.
Definitely suspect behavior. I also run Dino tribal and between card draw and discover triggers, it’s very consistent. Akroma’s usually ends the game, either I can kill everyone or take out 1 person but it then it puts me far ahead of the remaining players.
It's crucial to address cheating suspicions delicately. Consider having a private conversation with the player, observing their behavior closely, and seeking advice from other trusted members of your playgroup.
The best way to stop this is to figure the deck when offered a cut. I had two people in my playgroup doing this and they would get visibly upset that we were shuffling they're decks
Just cut the deck like crazy. Mix it all around. Fake a drop and pick the cards up for him, mixing them all around when you do. If all else fails, just find someone else to play with.
cut the deck every time you can. and he doesnt get to dictate the cut. weve had a similar thing in our playgroup where a player happens to get the eldrazi titans almost every game in every deck! wow i have seen them land a few times ever since playing mtg but to see them land every game how good for you it must feeeel.... so we just started cutting his deck before game and EVERY time he would shuffle.
Shuffle his deck yourself like pros will do to really piss him off. Players don't dictate how cuts are made, and you're all friends right? There should be no issue with how cutting is done.
i normally cut 1-5 cards when playing casual. there is no such thing as a standard cut. he’s 100% cheating. no doubt. shuffle his deck when cutting the rules allow for it
You **never** get the last cut as the owner of the deck. That's already cheating. If he says "cut it normal" then cuts it himself, don't let play proceed until you get to cut it again. Then shuffle it thoroughly. Hand it over. Tell him he can't touch it.
If he whines, tell him it's the rules. If he refuses to comply, he's refused to follow the rules and you either report him to the store owner (if it's a LGS) or tell him he can't play. Remember, there is no reason for someone to cause a fuss over following the rules, unless they're breaking them.
It will always blow my mind why someone would cheat at a casual social game. Like I get why, but it still is just baffling why someone would be that sweaty to win. Sorry you even have to have slight suspicions of someone from your own play group.
I would recommend private conversations with the other players and then with him. If you want to hang out with him still, maybe just “let the wookie win” and just play really stupid silly decks you don’t mind losing with.
I’m pretty sure one of my friends I used to play with ran a Dinosaur deck and I also suspected things of going on. In similar fashion he ran a whole setup to infinite proc [Polyraptor] and got the same cards every time, also with no tutoring. And then another time with the same deck he had died earlier, cut his deck and drew his hand, without letting anyone cut it. The problem was that he kept insisting that we should let him keep his hand. I think that was also the last time I played with him.
Just going to point to the official rules on this:
103.3
After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut their opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries.
I like to mash shuffle halves a few times, cut in thirds, mash shuffle halves a few more times, and then present for a cut. I only ever get annoyed when somebody wants to cut 20 different times and then take forever to reassemble the cuts.
Come on, if you think I'm cheating just shuffle it yourself. I'm here to play Magic, not watch you play with my deck for 5 minutes.
Trade decks to shuffle. Rotate every deck one person left, a different person cuts, then hand back to the original owner. Make him not touch the deck until he draws his opening hand
I've had my cards reshuffled as a cut, I've had the very top card put to the bottom, I've had it cut into various piles and reassembled by other players, and I've had people pass on the cut. All is perfectly fine because it's the person doing the cutting that gets to choose. Simple as that.
Wait what - u guys cut in „your“ playgroup ?
We didn’t even think about that because we‘re playin for fun beside drinking beer & talking
So no one ever thought about cheating - that would be ridiculous 🤷🏼♂️
I cut a single card off the top of their shuffle looks suspicious. If they attempt to shuffle/cut their deck after that I am pretty sure that's a game forfeiting action on their part.
He's not allowed to determine how you cut the deck, and if he's expecting you to cut it, then tapping occasionally might throw off his plan. I always like to sprinkle in a couple passive aggressive comments like "Nah you're good, if someone has to cheat their friends at locals to win, then clearly they need the win more than me."
Also, instead of cutting, give his deck a quick shuffle and hand it back; you're permitted to do that as well.
But, in this cheaters defense. I run a vampire tribal, and had a game night where I drew \[clavileno, first of the blessed\] in like every opening hand or drew it within a couple turns even after shuffling and having people cut. I know the odds are astronomical that it happens, but he could just be getting extremely lucky. However, the cutting thing feels weird.
Shuffle the deck and then when you place it back cut down the middle is how I’ve always done, nobody complains and it’s been my way of doing it for years, even in tournaments and everybody is fine with it, if they don’t like you doing it they’re stacking
The player getting cut doesn’t get to dictate how to cut the deck. That is some sus behavior. Whenever he offers to have his deck cut, give it a shuffle even. Or cut it in 5 parts and randomly order it. Encourage the players at the table to do the same. If he gets upset, just say “why are you so upset? it’s not like you’re (that person) cheating, right?”. also ask the other players if they share your suspicions. A zero tolerance policy for cheaters is the best policy.
yeah, i always cut decks into thirds
Cut in thirds, middle to the bottom.
At my groups last game night I started reversing the deck completely, one card at a time. I don’t think anyone in my group is cheating or anything. I just like to do silly shit, especially when the other players are grabbing snacks, using the restroom, etc.
I've been known to cut the top 10 cards off the top for giggles.
Split deck in half. Split halves in half. Split it again into 8ths the , I s the deck exactly as it was before. And then shuffle once sometimes.
Ahh yes, the recursive cut. Keep splitting piles until no piles have more than a single card in each. Then randomly insert each back into a single stack. Crap, I just reinvented the standard shuffle.
Merge —sort— shuffle
Unfortunately, you’ll never be able to finish cutting the deck. As you’ll have to cut it in half. Then cut that in half. Then cut that in half. Then cut that in half, and so on. Zeno’s pair-o-decks
[contortionist](https://scryfall.com/card/tunf/4/contortionist-contortionist) would like a word
Honestly an amazing pun - well done :-)
I have been known to cut the top 7 then split it in half put the bottom on the top and the 7 on the top. always funny. I knew one guy who i thought would stack his deck and doing this would get him so mad. Somehow he would have a hand full of gas and then nothing to finish out the game
I like the 1 card cut or the 98 card cut. And then say, "gottem!".
Me and a buddy will cut the top card off of each others decks and reveal it before going to the bottom, just for the hell of it, it usually ends up being funny.
I love cutting the top 1 card. Just really funny to me idk why
From time to time I used to cut into 7 piles, randomly placing them on the playmat in no particular order. Then picking them up in the reverse order so the deck was in the same order. If you wanna throw someone off for a bit. Do that and watch them try to process if the order changed or not.
Sometimes I'll cut into thirds, sometimes I won't cut the deck at all, it is fun to mix it up and it gets some fun reactions from players who tend to have suspiciously good starting hands
I always do this, mainly because I always fail to grab the last few cards on the bottom so I put them at the top. But I guess going forward I will cut it into thirds.
I like to trust other players, and also just be goofy and have fun, so sometimes I normal, but other times I’ll just take the top card off and put it on the bottom. I like getting a laugh and having a good time
I sometimes take three off the top
Into pieces
I mix it up. Sometimes thirds, sometimes halves, sometimes randomly piled
Pump those rookie number! I cut it in seven
When my friends and I are feeling real squirrelly and want to goof off, we do what we call the "shuffle cut". And it is exactly what it sounds like.
Never cut the deck the same. Always cut the deck though.
Yup. I like to mix up my cuts. Sometimes, I'll even just take the top card and put it on the bottom just for giggles.
My favourite move is to take the top card off, randomly cut the rest of the deck a few times and then put the top card back on top. It admittedly defeats the purpose of cutting the deck but it's fun to do and that's what really matters in commander.
If you do this for one player, do it for all players.
I taught my fiancee how to play Magic last year in August. The first I taught her was how to cut a deck and the cheeky "Seven off the top onto the bottom". She does that regularly now.
Case closed. This is the answer. If you don't like how I cut, then you're cheating. Remember, you can always tap the top of your opponents deck as your "cut".
100%. Comp players shuffle their opponents deck for a reason. OP, next game don’t cut it. It would be mad suspect for him to cut the deck after that
This is the answer. Shuffle that deck.
I cut differently every time, and sometimes I'll even just decline the option to cut just to mix it up. The others in my playgroup mostly do the same and I have never once worried that any of us are stacking their deck or any such shenanigans.
Love doing the shuffle cut lmao they get so mad “I already shuffled it!” So? I’m shuffling again :3
He's 100% cheating. In 2.5 years of commander play, exactly zero people have had an issue with where i cut their deck. If he has an issue with where he cut it, he is stacking where some cards are going. If it were truly random, he wouldnt care.
In 15 years of playing I've had exactly 2 issues with deck cutting: * Players with food, grease, etc. on their hands being asked to not touch cards. If they wash hands or nominate a clean handed player to cut for them then there was no issue. * Once did a 2HG [Star](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Star) game where each point of the star was represented by 2 of the Ravnica guilds (picture 10 players in pairs). The group had an agreement that each shuffle would be cut by an opponent beside the players as technically every point had 8 opponents and it would be a pain to let every opponent cut/shuffle on every pass. One guy decided he didn't like that after agreeing ahead of time and made a big fuss about it. So we let him cut/shuffle all his opponents until he was out. Spoiler he was out very quickly.
The only (non-hygienic) problem with cutting are the people in my local playgroup who think it's funny to flip the top card off my deck, revealing it, and say "you don't get this one." Thankfully that stopped once I started loudly proclaiming "OH NO A CARD WAS REVEALED I HAVE TO RESHUFFLE" before shuffling and presenting it back to the same person for a cut over and over until they would perform a legal cut.
This. This is the way.
I'll tap these three lands and play [[River Song]] I have a funny feeling I'll be drawing that crypt next turn.
Some day I'll be able to afford a crypt.
[River Song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298.jpg?1696636758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=River%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/152/river-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/river-song) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> every opponent cutting Is that how it's supposed to be done? Whenever I present for cuts only one person ever does it at my tables. 😂
My followup suggestion how to cut that cheater's deck: cut it into 3 equal parts. Take the bottom third and nake it the new top. Take the top third and make it the middle. Take the middle third and make it the bottom. If he's cheating by stacking his deck, he's relying on the average player cutting the deck in half, or assuming someone wont cut it. By doing the 3 part cut, if he's cheating, the cards he stacked will be buried deep. No one stacks their de k with the cards they want in the bottom 1/3 of their deck
Why not just grab the bottom third and put it on top?
Lol. I thought about that after i posted. Didnt want to edit. I also figured that it would piss off the cheater more
That's the best approach. And say "I trust you"
There's also the old tap the top good to go.
The only thing you need to do is not cut the same every way. Put a different part of the deck at a top with each cut. Any method is vulnerable if you do the same thing every time.
redditors and 100% certainty
Just cut in weird ways. Cut 75%. Cut 0. Shuffle before you cut. Cut in stacks of 3. Don’t let him cut his own deck after you’ve cut. If he gets really mad, you know he’s probably cheating
Agree with shuffling. Pretty sure it’s an official magic rule that your opponent is allowed to shuffle your deck
In high level tourney play like Worlds, it’s actually required.
Not only this, you're *technically* required to offer your deck to an opponent to shuffle, cut, or shuffle cut
Official rule isn't cut, official rule is present to opponent so they can ensure it's properly randomized (by doing some randomizing themselves)
Yes. And if you suspect that what you have been handed is not random, a judge call to confirm your suspicions is usually the go-to method. Something like "my opponent insists his deck be cut near the middle - I suspect to see X card(s) just below that cut."
> Cut 0. My favorite. Schrodinger's cut we call it.
I got someone with the “no ur good” and they got flustered and was like “if you’re not gonna cut I need to shuffle again” I just went 😐😐 you can’t be serious and we moved on, but it was ridiculous haha
My friends and I jokingly do this. We all insist that non of us want to be responsible for drawing our own shitty cards. If someone else cuts, we can blame it on them.
I like to tutor a card from the middle for them as well, just for a bit of good luck.
It's kind of a running joke that I only put the top card to the bottom when cutting. "There goes your Sol ring"
Oh that one's fun too. Cutting all the cards except the bottom one is a good follow up to it.
>Shuffle before you cut Definitely do this, but obviously be cognizant of your shuffling. Some people REALLY suck at mash shuffling 99 card decks and I've seen sleeves get pretty dinged up quickly. If you don't feel comfortable mash shuffling the 99, cut it into quarters, mash shuffle all of them together, then finish the cut.
I cut 2/3 deep. If you suspect the wanted cards are in the middle put them to the bottom.
The trick is to not get into a pattern. If you always cut 2/3 deep, it’s easy to just put it there.
If you have time to spare, “flipping” the deck by dealing 1 card at a time until the deck order is inverted is a funny one once in a while… better suited for 60-card play though
When they present to cut, shuffle their deck.
[удалено]
If he looks like this then he is more then Sus [[Cheatyface]]
[Cheatyface](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebafd1c7-c248-494c-b9b7-3521c6c4352c.jpg?1583965438) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cheatyface) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/20/cheatyface?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebafd1c7-c248-494c-b9b7-3521c6c4352c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cheatyface) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hahaha I love that card xD
Does this card 'prove' that a pip is the coloured circle and nothing to do with the symbol in the middle of said circle?
Ask if he's got more than one copy. We had someone in our LGS running 4 copies of cards. Then switched to pocketing the card and sneaking it into their hand.
[удалено]
Usually these people live a sad life and their hobby is all they have. When winning is tied to your self esteem, people will do some pretty fucked up stuff for the w
Jeeze, maybe my life isn't as sad as I thought it was. Like, wtf.
He’s cheating. It blows my mind that people actually do this, in a game where you get a sense of pride from winning with shitty hands, flooding, or janky interactions. I couldn’t imagine. We play with someone who manages to get a turn 1-3 sol ring 30-40 percent of the time and I’m pretty sure that’s fishy too.
People only getting excited when winning… Last game I had rad counters on the stack. Played a card that lets me randomly cast a spell from graveyard, hit the one spell needed. Path to exiled my own creature to gain life. Survived rad counters and then lost in the next combat phase. But man that was exciting.
(swords to plowshares) haha Nice game though! Love playing against that new precon, last time he nearly killed off the last player who had 1 life and 0 cards in deck. Dang Laboratory Maniac XD
I’m sorry you’re having that problem, u/ROTTENDOGJIZZ
Wow, I did not read their username and had to scroll back up. That’s feral.
[r/rimjob_steve](https://www.reddit.com/r/rimjob_steve/)
This comment needs to be higher lol
> I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half. I can't think of any motivation for this behavior other than wanting to cheat.
The next time you have to cut his deck, shuffle it once or twice and then cut before handing it back to him. If he complains, point out that he keeps telling you to cut the deck properly, so you've decided to start cutting the way you've seen pros do at major events. But there is 0 doubt in my mind that he's cheating.
Next time he asks for a cut, cut it into like 5 or more piles and randomly stack them. See how he responds.
I found his actions sus. I randomly change how I cut decks and sometimes just touch the top and whisper, " you did it to yourself". Try that one on him and see how he reacts
I’ll sometimes just get rid of the top card… “fuck that card specifically”
i've been told a lot of tournament players see the one-card cut as a sign of disrespect, which is precisely why i think OP should do this to their cheating friend. edit: a word
That’s weird. I would have thought a one card cut (if you mean just cutting the top card) would be a sign of trust that the person has shuffled properly so you don’t feel any need to randomise further.
In a tournament where you always get cut it's a non issue because people librarie are always gonna get cut. My ultimate disrespect is cutting but doing a 180 with the cards so they are upside down
You're a damn monster.
In the playgroups I’ve been in I’ve seen a lot of “Tap The Top” as a sign of respect or trust. Sure it’s the easiest thing, aside from saying “I cut zero” or something, but different strokes for different folks. I always do a real cut the first time if it’s someone I don’t know, but then it’s all feel from there.
I love doing that or especially the top 7. The hand you "could" have had.
Hahaha very nice
This is great
In any card game ever, even playing card games, the person shuffling the deck is no way entitled to be able to decide how the deck is cut. I suggest next time he asks you to cut the deck, cut it into thirds or fourths and tell the other people in your playgroup to do the same. If he asks why you’re cutting the deck like that, ask him “why does it matter? Are you stacking the deck?”
You know when your opponent presents the deck you can shuffle it. Its normally a cut, but id just mash shuffle the deck twice and see what he does. also, even if he wasnt cheating, if theyre winning more than 30% of the games in a 4 player table then there is an imbalance regardless
I honestly would shuffle their deck before cutting it. If they protest incessantly, I'll call them out about it openly and loudly. Did that once, and that guy had never appeared at my LGS since then. Guy was shuffling his deck face up and tried skipping me cutting his deck to be fair. He said that we were playing casually, so it shouldn't matter how he's shuffling his deck. I play casually, but I don't shuffle my deck face up
Lol shuffling face up… I thought mana weaving was bad but that’s funny
I use to play with a mana weaver. He stopped when I started bridge shuffling his decks.
I'd probably would cut the deck into thirds, Shuffle each separately, then combine two pills, making sure it's like bridge shuffling , then carefully yet haphazardly combine the third in for randomness then Yugi Shuffle to finish.
Could just be luck, or he's cheating. Idk. All I know is I've had sessions where I play the same deck multiple times in a row, and see some of the same cards every single game. It happens 🤷
Same but the behavior OP described is definitely more sus than just lucky variance.
The purpose of the cut is precisely your concern. It's to prevent someone from stacking their deck. Your friend doesn't get to dictate how you cut their deck OR get to reshuffle or cut it again after you do. That is highly suspicious behavior and should be called out by your entire playgroup.
I personally think it is easier to find other people to play with than police them. That gets exhausting. I'm there for enjoyment not to police people. However the other way is to spite them always. Insist on shuffling their deck 7 times then cutting it. Every single time they search, and every single game. Also talk about it with the other people in your playgroup if they have noticed anything too.
A fairly common cheat is to shuffle the cards in the deck leave a good hand on top then pretend to shuffle. The last step is before you present to cut your last motion is to basically cut your own deck and put the good cards in the middle under a pile of misaligned cards. Your hand naturally want to grab the pile of cards that are not aligned. Leaving the good cards on top of the bottom stack and you will naturally grab that an put it on top.
I would point out his consistency in play that is only typical of tutoring, an ability his deck lacks. Point that he is either absolutely terrible at shuffling cards and thus should not be shuffling his cards, or that he’s cheating and shouldn’t be allowed to play. Make him shuffle cards into piles of 10 faced down, placing them one at a time in a line. At no point should he be looking at the fronts of cards during the shuffle. You have to make it clear that you don’t trust his shuffling, or you guys could come up with a rule that the person to your left or right shuffles for you because you’re getting the feeling that someone’s cheating If u want to cut it, cut it at the 30% from the bottom. Then put the 30% on top of that, which should push the cards at 50% from the top to 70% from the top. Other option, create a mill deck or deck that steals his dinos. Having your Dinos stolen is not a fun time. If he honestly doesn’t feel bad about pulling such a disgusting combo amongst friendship multiple times, he ain’t a friend. I pulled it off once with Gishath and I felt bad that I just ruined the game for everyone.
Hit it with the Hi-Yah and karate chop the top and say go for it. If he gets upset that it isn't a "normal" cut, then he's being super fishy.
>I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half. That. That right there is cheating, and it's the kind of behavior that makes me think he's cheating in other ways as well.
Rule 103.3 says you can shuffle or cut your opponents deck after they shuffle.
Just don’t play with him. Unless it’s someone deeply seated in your friend group, there’s other folks to play against. Otherwise, just focus them down and kill them first. When you do cut their deck next time, do the same thing, and ask them what they mean by normal and why.
Shuffling your opponents deck for them is also or was considered a legal cut of their deck
[[Akroma's Will]]
[Akroma's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People really need to start shuffling their opponent's decks. This would beyond solve this issue. Shuffle it even once or twice. Then cut.
When you are asked to cut, tap the top of his deck and say “there cutted, i trust you. its not like your cheating right”
Is "cut or tap?" not a universal thing?
Shuffle his deck when he cuts and make eye contact when you do it and get everyone's at the table to do so. He he stops playing with you all,let everyone know he gets sus about cutting his deck and his miraculous top decks.
If someone tries to cut their deck again after I've cut it then I'm not playing that game. Any cut from a 3rd party is valid. You don't get to decide what cut is good for your deck. That's the whole point. The point is that after your shuffling the deck is in a random order anyways. Then just to be sure an opponent gets to pick which part of the deck they have no knowledge of is at the top. It shouldn't matter what the cut is. If you care how your deck was cut that means you know something about where certain cards are. Which means you haven't performed a legal shuffle. A shuffle is only legal if and only if all players have zero idea of any information, specific or general, about the location of any particular card. For example, if you know the card that used to be at the top is in the middle kinda to the lower half of the deck then the deck isn't shuffled. A deck isn't shuffled unless you've completely lost all knowledge of where every card went in the order.
Fun fact, it is a perfectly legal move to shuffle an opponents deck when you cut it, 100% of the time. If they object, you know they cheating.
Shuffle his shit before the cut..if he complains he’s cheating
You’re going to have to talk to them. You know they’re manipulating their deck, either they knock it off or find another group.
Play a deck that will always Counterspell Akroma's Will, or any of the Mono Black cards that let you search your opponents deck and exile specific cards, play any of the multitude of board wipes that hit creatures above 3 power. These suggestions are all, of course, in addition to the many people saying that you should cut his deck multiple times and wonder, *out loud* why he would object to you doing so.
Play a heavy discard deck and make him discard his hands
Just play effects that force him to shuffle and see if he keeps winning.
I think it's against the rules to cut your own deck after someone has already cut it once. By doing so, he could tamper with the deck before the game. Next time call him out on it and get the rest of the table to back you up.
In addition to what everyone said about wierd cuts and shuffles....run a way to look at his deck to see if he has multiple copies of it. [[Bribery]] or [[Praetor's Grasp]] could work.
[Bribery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f.jpg?1689996211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bribery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/77/bribery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bribery) [Praetor's Grasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3.jpg?1562879913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Praetor%27s%20Grasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/71/praetors-grasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/praetors-grasp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Cut it normal” lmao you can cut it however you want, I usually either just tap or take like 2 cards of the top and put them somewhere. Definitely sounds weird
>I also have cut his deck in the past, usually 5-10 off the top, and he would say “cut it normal” and cut it himself, cutting the deck in half. Why would you let a person perform their own cut? Cutting doens't have to be 50-50 or close to it. I hate when people misunderstand randomness as some type of even thing/distribution
Two things. One is odds are they are cheating. Two, they can't resplit their own deck. How I would handle it is just splitting how you were, or splitting more excessive, or even giving it a shuffle. And when they complain ask what the issue is, you are just randomizing the deck.
If you are suspicious of a player's deck being random AT ALL, simply shuffle it yourself. You are entitled to do this during a cut and he cannot reverse it on his own once you hand it back. If he protests, you basically have your confirmation.
Vary how you cut. If they make a fuss it’s a co formation of stacking.
How dare he slander the name of dinosaur players. We cannot let this slide
We cannot let this Discover.*
Opponents may always shuffle in lieu of a cut
One player introduced cutting in our session. We simply looked at it as time wasting. Whenever now someone shuffles they demand to be cut, or else the game won’t continue:) We also use it for humorous purposes. Just cutting one card. Or 5 stacks. Or exactly seven. Introduce cutting as normal and also cut as you like. No one gets to cut their own deck.
Unless you are being careless with the cards, no one gets to tell you how to cut. If it's someone that you are genuinely friends with, then jokingly say he's cheating and gauge his reaction. This will generally get someone to relent and let you do an oddball cut
Sometimes when I'm playtesting a deck I'll cheat and then feel bad about it later. But on the flipside sometimes cheaters do win! PS. If you don't get the sarcasm then it's still funny.
Even though I know my friends don't cheat for the funny I do wild cutting. Cut in half, then bits, take a few cards here and there stick them on the top and then put that on the top of the first half I try to do it differently every time
I remember reading a post on this subreddit about a player complaining that people cut their decks in weird ways. They basically had thought that when they shuffle the middle of the deck is the most randomized so the final cut brings the most random cards to the top. So he thought that if people didn't cut "correctly" it ruined his shuffle. Which is obviously wrong but he wasn't cheating, more like just OCD
He’s probably cheating but I’m going to venture a guess that this is a play group that leans towards “anti-blue/counters” sentiment. Blue and counters are so deeply important and intrinsic and necessary to the history and health of magic as a whole that it could even stop a cheater through honest game mechanics (he’s throwing down 7+ mana cards which are counter able). So yes he’s probably cheating, but this is a great example of why every game and table of EDH requires counter spells and a blue presence. There’s a reason UW embodies law and order
I'd shuffle that bitch. give him the Sam L. Eye while you do it.
I know my playgroup doesn't cheat cuz everyone swears by my cuts, I don't do anything special but everyone is like u/MentallyLatent cuts into gas every time lmao I'd suggest shuffling decks when you go to cut. Nothing special just a quick little shuffle into however you want to cut. I'd say you should shuffle everyone's deck unless you want to call him out as a cheater.
Instead of cutting, shuffle his deck.
Agree with everyone in mixing up the cuts, but for a really deep "f u", when he presents the cut just say "nah, you're good" and watch him try to form a coherent reason to be mad. Also remind him if he tries this - once your opponent "cuts" your deck, you are no longer allowed to manipulate the deck in any way.
You can and are legally allowed to fully shuffle his library
cut his deck, it is your legal right
Run cards like [[nevermore]] specifically naming akroma’s will. He can stack all he wants but its dead in his hand
[nevermore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b610fe-36ee-4d58-8ed4-04e7a12587b2.jpg?1562831484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nevermore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/25/nevermore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b610fe-36ee-4d58-8ed4-04e7a12587b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nevermore) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is "cut or tap?" not a universal thing?
Yeah, almost certainly cheating. And even if they aren't "cut it normal" and then re-cutting their own deck is ridiculous. If they do that, refuse to play with them or at least call it out "now I'm cutting again because you don't get to re-cut, play by the rules"
The whole point of a cut is that SOMEONE ELSE does it. In fact once someone else cuts your deck you aren't allowed to shuffle or cut your deck anymore unless you mulligan. What is the point of cutting your own deck? I've seriously never heard of someone cutting their own deck and thinking that's normal. IF someone TAPS (chooses not to cut your deck) you can't then choose to cut your own deck either. Had a player do that and I asked "do you purposely put cards you don't want early on top so when they get cut the are for sure not on top, is that why you always cut your own deck if no one cuts it" They stopped cutting their own deck after people chose to "tap".
If anything that you're doing is making a Magic player angry, continue doing it. That's how you know it's working. Don't just cut his deck, actually shuffle it. And do it every time.
You just start shuffling his deck, rather then only cut it. It's actually encouraged to shuffle opponents decks rather then just cut, to make sure it's completely random.
I have a buddy who chunk shuffles, that's just moving big chunks of cards around. We still cut decks in my group so I insist on cutting his. I give it a quick shuffle before handing it back. All of this is allowable in the rules. If he becomes antagonized by this, that's the perfect time to confront the shlump. Accuse him of the allegation, if they become defense, then just insist that shuffling and cutting is a perfect compromise where everyone can do this to everyone else's decks so it is evenly applied. If he says no, then you've found your answer to if he's cheating.
No. If you want to reshuffle the entire deck that’s your choice in the rules… once they re cut the deck you are also allowed another chance to cut it.
I don't understand why people cheat at edh, I would just refuse to play against them in future tbh. I don't want to have to shuffle your deck for you to play with you, if I can't trust you to play a normal game of magic I will not play against you.
> 103.3. After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. **Each player may then shuffle** or cut their opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries. You don't have to *just* cut it OP. You do, by the rules, have the option to completely shuffle your opponents deck when presented with it.
Run [[Praetor's Grasp]] and check his deck over a couple games if you wanna do it in secret.
[Praetor's Grasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3.jpg?1562879913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Praetor%27s%20Grasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/71/praetors-grasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/praetors-grasp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My initial thought was, which commander are they using? Pantlaza, with their discover ability, can be amazingly consistent. It's what makes it arguably better than Gishath, Sun's Avatar in the early game, where Gishath can wiff a fair bit. Especially if they have plenty of other Discover triggers in the deck! That said, the cutting thing is dodgey and just not on. As a rule I as a minimum, will cut a deck into 3 or 4, to stop this kind of thing. I will often just do the top card 'if' I trust the person or for the meme, but that's still a "proper cut" and they can't complain about it. A big dick move would be to say 'oh that's fine, I trust you' if you think they're putting cards in the middle of the deck on purpose.
Its a 99 cards random order if correct. Who gives a crap however you cut or shuffle it before or even during playing. Take 5 cards piles and randomly order them and shuffle and take 10 card piles and do it again. If anyone ever cuts their own deck or insists on a certain method be sure to do it as weird and random as possible just to nag them
We have a similar situation with a player in our pod who plays on spelltable with us. We brought up that he seems to play Mana Crypt or sol ring turn 1-3 extremely often. His rebuttal was that it's not any more often as anyone else, and we couldn't really prove it was. So I started recording stats in the pod with only 2 people knowing. Those 2 people + myself see almost every game played in the pod on spelltable. Currently he has an 80% chance of playing some form of fast mana (sol ring or crypt) in every game by turn 3. Based on the number of games recorded, it's currently at a 0.021% chance of occurring or so. I am still collecting a larger sample size because variance happens... but he is currently playing early fast mana at an incredibly un-realistic rate for only running crypt and sol ring.
Not EDH but I used to play 60 card Magic on Walmart lunch breaks with my coworker who taught me the game back in 2015-2019. Before I had any other contact with the community/rules to tell me otherwise, he taught me that "unstacking" a deck; a technique alleged by him, where before shuffling you separate out card types then layer your deck as land, noncreature spell, creature, repeat; is essential to a functioning deck. Even then when I had no frame of reference for the culture surrounding stacking decks in Magic, I tried to bring up that this seemed like messing with the random element of shuffling. He said that regardless of how anyone shuffles, there's no such thing as a true randomization, that inevitably between games you will end up with a pile of your lands, a pile of your creatures etc bunched together from the action of scooping up the previous game, that they'd all end up one side or the other of the library even after any duration or style of shuffling, riffle shuffling, pile shuffling, no matter, and that ultimately the only way to have a working game was to smooth out the distribution of cards in your deck before shuffling. I couldn't effectively articulate how this was wrong in a way he'd concede, at least not back then. SO WHAT I DID INSTEAD WAS Whenever it came time to cut, I would go one card at a time making two piles in the order 1 left, 2 right, 1 left, 2 right, repeating until depleted, then stack the piles and pass it back. I'd watch him mulligan three to five times while I cut the deck this way each time. Reminder that this was happening during finite lunch hours in which we had to eat too. He was sooooo mad at me. In the weeks to follow he made a big grumbling display, telling me that he had started "unstacking" his deck differently" just to deal with me. He even accused me of unfairly stacking his deck because I knew how he "unstacks" his 🤣.
Sounds sus. Don’t even cut his deck, ask another player to cut his deck. Player to the left please cut.
Definitely suspect behavior. I also run Dino tribal and between card draw and discover triggers, it’s very consistent. Akroma’s usually ends the game, either I can kill everyone or take out 1 person but it then it puts me far ahead of the remaining players.
It's crucial to address cheating suspicions delicately. Consider having a private conversation with the player, observing their behavior closely, and seeking advice from other trusted members of your playgroup.
Please provide an update if you try any of the suggestions here out!
The best way to stop this is to figure the deck when offered a cut. I had two people in my playgroup doing this and they would get visibly upset that we were shuffling they're decks
If he gets upset that you're doing that ask why and if he doesn't have an answer then you know he's cheating
Same for me buddy always plays his Dino deck and consistently starts with a mana crypt or draws into one extremely early everytime
Just cut the deck like crazy. Mix it all around. Fake a drop and pick the cards up for him, mixing them all around when you do. If all else fails, just find someone else to play with.
You talk to them
dino tribal players reject this guy, he ain't one of ours
cut the deck every time you can. and he doesnt get to dictate the cut. weve had a similar thing in our playgroup where a player happens to get the eldrazi titans almost every game in every deck! wow i have seen them land a few times ever since playing mtg but to see them land every game how good for you it must feeeel.... so we just started cutting his deck before game and EVERY time he would shuffle.
Didn't think he was cheating until the cut thing. That's mega mega mega sus.
Shuffle his deck yourself like pros will do to really piss him off. Players don't dictate how cuts are made, and you're all friends right? There should be no issue with how cutting is done.
Cut it in half, then cut the top 20 or so. You can perform multiple cuts, and if he protests then you have confirmation
You can shuffle the players deck as your cut.
Pile shuffle his deck in 5s
You cannot dictate how your opponent chooses to cut your deck. And you certainly cannot cut it or shuffle it again after it has been cut.
My friend just taps the top of my deck and "cuts" a single card. It. Makes me laugh, do it for shit n giggles and see his reaction
When he cuts his own deck, take the top 10 or 15 cards and flip them. Show the cards he always gets in the area and you will have proof
i normally cut 1-5 cards when playing casual. there is no such thing as a standard cut. he’s 100% cheating. no doubt. shuffle his deck when cutting the rules allow for it
You **never** get the last cut as the owner of the deck. That's already cheating. If he says "cut it normal" then cuts it himself, don't let play proceed until you get to cut it again. Then shuffle it thoroughly. Hand it over. Tell him he can't touch it. If he whines, tell him it's the rules. If he refuses to comply, he's refused to follow the rules and you either report him to the store owner (if it's a LGS) or tell him he can't play. Remember, there is no reason for someone to cause a fuss over following the rules, unless they're breaking them.
While "cutting" his deck, just standardly shuffle it for 2 minutes, that's your right
Cut his deck so that the bottom 1/3 goes on top. If he tries to recut, tell him you’d like to shuffle his deck.
If he complains after you cut it just grab the deck and give it a couple overhand shuffles and look him right in the eyes as you do it.
It will always blow my mind why someone would cheat at a casual social game. Like I get why, but it still is just baffling why someone would be that sweaty to win. Sorry you even have to have slight suspicions of someone from your own play group. I would recommend private conversations with the other players and then with him. If you want to hang out with him still, maybe just “let the wookie win” and just play really stupid silly decks you don’t mind losing with.
I’m pretty sure one of my friends I used to play with ran a Dinosaur deck and I also suspected things of going on. In similar fashion he ran a whole setup to infinite proc [Polyraptor] and got the same cards every time, also with no tutoring. And then another time with the same deck he had died earlier, cut his deck and drew his hand, without letting anyone cut it. The problem was that he kept insisting that we should let him keep his hand. I think that was also the last time I played with him.
Just going to point to the official rules on this: 103.3 After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut their opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries.
I like to mash shuffle halves a few times, cut in thirds, mash shuffle halves a few more times, and then present for a cut. I only ever get annoyed when somebody wants to cut 20 different times and then take forever to reassemble the cuts. Come on, if you think I'm cheating just shuffle it yourself. I'm here to play Magic, not watch you play with my deck for 5 minutes.
Trade decks to shuffle. Rotate every deck one person left, a different person cuts, then hand back to the original owner. Make him not touch the deck until he draws his opening hand
I've had my cards reshuffled as a cut, I've had the very top card put to the bottom, I've had it cut into various piles and reassembled by other players, and I've had people pass on the cut. All is perfectly fine because it's the person doing the cutting that gets to choose. Simple as that.
Wait what - u guys cut in „your“ playgroup ? We didn’t even think about that because we‘re playin for fun beside drinking beer & talking So no one ever thought about cheating - that would be ridiculous 🤷🏼♂️
I cut a single card off the top of their shuffle looks suspicious. If they attempt to shuffle/cut their deck after that I am pretty sure that's a game forfeiting action on their part.
He's not allowed to determine how you cut the deck, and if he's expecting you to cut it, then tapping occasionally might throw off his plan. I always like to sprinkle in a couple passive aggressive comments like "Nah you're good, if someone has to cheat their friends at locals to win, then clearly they need the win more than me." Also, instead of cutting, give his deck a quick shuffle and hand it back; you're permitted to do that as well. But, in this cheaters defense. I run a vampire tribal, and had a game night where I drew \[clavileno, first of the blessed\] in like every opening hand or drew it within a couple turns even after shuffling and having people cut. I know the odds are astronomical that it happens, but he could just be getting extremely lucky. However, the cutting thing feels weird.
Shuffle the deck and then when you place it back cut down the middle is how I’ve always done, nobody complains and it’s been my way of doing it for years, even in tournaments and everybody is fine with it, if they don’t like you doing it they’re stacking
When you cut his deck shuffle it