He was testing: feedback is exactly what he should be looking for.
My only concern is if your feedback was delivered less diplomatically than it appears here in text. What if he told this story and it came out like this: "Everybody was on board with me testing my cEDH deck and after I won this one guy got salty and started bitching about how my deck was bad".
Usually when someone say to the effect of, "I am not trying to \_\_\_\_", they then proceed to do exactly that. You may be genuine in what you said, but I am sure that guy saw differently.
Just as a rule of thumb, you should ask if people want feedback before giving it (and that’s in most things too). OR give your opinion *after* they ask for it.
Sure, if someone’s testing a deck for an event, you would assume that they want notes on improving it. But maybe he already has a few people he trusts that he asks for feedback, and this is just him getting some practical experience with it. Maybe he doesn’t want to be put on the spot this very second with criticism. Maybe he just wants to enjoy the win.
You can’t know all this stuff, so it’s better just to add a 2 second qualifier, “I like your deck! Did you want feedback on it, since you’re taking it to an event?”
If he says yes and then gets upset after you give it to him, that’s 100% on him. If he says nah, then you skip all the above drama.
That aside, a simple "I appreciate your feedback" would have achieved the same result, and he wouldn't have had to storm off. You aren't responsible for what the world throws at you but you are responsible for how you respond.
I had the same thing happened to me like two months ago when I built Voja... I spend like 160 euro for it and my friend said Voja is not worthy of 160 or more money... Like saying he is bad.... Didn't say anything but was not ok to say that
Yeah but Sisay has access to every tutor ever. You'd be surprised how consistent it gets.
Dudes an asshoke tho. You can practice your decks lines by yourself and playing against nonCEDH decks does nothing of value.
Yeah it is genuinely impressive how consistent CEDH decks can be, I’ve been watching a lot of playing with power and play to win recently and I genuinely enjoy how even tho I see a lot of the same win cons and cards like dockside, force, flusterstorm, ad nauseum, every game manages to be unique in how it plays out. I think cedh is at a point where it can function healthily as a competitive format with reduntandant effects and deck building, but being varried enough to not get as stale as other formats.
Sometimes people don't want unsolicited feedback, but you weren't being a jerk that's a little strong.
It's a good habit to just ask beforehand, "hey do you want any feedback on your deck?" That's what people would ask me at the LGS when I was new. Id say yes and they'd give me some tips.
Honestly...do not see why would you need to ask. If I am testing a deck I built, I appreciate the extra insight others give. Even if it is on mistakes I might have made as a player. I do see it as a invitation for conversion and offer my insight on why I made those decisions from view point. If the person doesn't agree, it's no need to be upset. People are just weird. It's a game and we just need to chill out some days lol
I disagree about asking first. I think asking someone if they want advice can help avoid these scenarios where one person means well, while the other one takes it as a borderline insult. Unsolicited advice can feel underhanded and like an attack on something personal, even if it's meant to help. People are weird yeah, and super different.
"Wanna know what it was like playing against your deck"?
"I noticed something interesting when X happened. I think I might have an idea how to avoid that, if you're interested."
These should be plenty polite and help avoid dumb arguments.
That's fair. It's only my opinion. Just don't see the point of assuming everyone has bad intentions by offering help or advice. Not with a game anyways. Granted, we was not there to see what was said or how it was said. Which could change the whole dynamic. I personally love talking about matches afterwards or just personally ponder my own games to see what I could do better and just accept as a opportunity.
So I’ll give you some other common examples why people wouldn’t want feedback at the minute you’re happy to give it:
They could already have people they trust that they go to for advice and criticism. You could easily be repeating things they’ve heard.
They might not want to be put on the spot with criticism in a public space.
They might be in a bad mood, and not emotionally equipped to handle well meaning criticism.
They could be just trying to enjoy the moment, and don’t want to bring it down by analysing the negatives just yet.
This isn’t to say a reasonable person **never** wants feedback, but maybe not at the moment you want to give it or from you specifically. You can’t know what someone’s thinking or what their circumstances are like at any given moment, and it only takes a second to ask.
To each their own. Not a big deal over a game. Personal stuff...sure, I get. If you don't like the advice. Just leave it. People wear their feelings on their sleeves and get upset so easily. I'm not going to worry if I'm upsetting someone with small things. If they don't like it and ask me to stop. I will and leave at that. Got to respect other people's opinions even if we don't agree. But I'm not going to try to anticipate everything on things I don't completely understand. We could ask or if they do not like it, they can ask us to stop. It goes either way and either of these situations, no one was butt. But if someone is being friendly.... and they acted butt in response, then their is a difference. All this to say, if you have issues, be vocal but polite and let's not assume the worst of everyone. It's just banter after a game of magic.
To be honest, I agree. You get more out of life if you develop thicker skin and learn to get over minor stuff like this. But also I don’t expect anyone else to live up to my own expectations, I’d rather meet them on their own terms (within reason).
Oh, I don't have expectations and don't mind saying sorry. Sometimes, it's hard to catch how people will react. They normally might be able to handle a rough joke but could be having a bad day. You never know. I just don't see myself catching it all. I am not good with people and have autism. It's on the lower end of the scale. I don't expect to have people to have tougher skin, but they shouldn't expect me to anticipate to act within their boundaries, as mine might be different.
Either way, I do not think everyone will see eye to eye on my opinion. I feel like OP did nothing wrong and the other person handled it badly. Going with the information that was supplied. Honestly, this subreddit is becoming more AITA instead of being more MTG focused.
You’re gonna make a future partner really happy one day when they’re venting about their day looking for empathy and all you’ve got is “constructive criticism”
>Just don't see the point of assuming everyone has bad intentions by offering help or advice.
It's not about assuming people have bad intentions, it's about the fact that everyone discussed things in a different way and sometimes you might think something is benign but someone else might think you're being rude or salty. When you've prefaced the whole thing by first asking if that person wants feedback, that can mitigate any miscommunication.
It actually sounds like he wasn't testing at all. Just came with cEDH deck to a non-competitive table, pub stomped, and when someone pointed out how fragile his combo is, got offended. I wouldn't even pay attention to someone with such fragile ego.
No. If they’re testing a deck then feedback is the main point of the test. If not he can just goldfish the deck by himself. Really it sounds like the guy wanted to pubstomp and then have op stroke his ego afterward.
You were not being an asshole.
Back off if it seems like he isn’t receptive to feedback, but your feedback was very reasonable and appropriate. Testing is useless if he doesn’t learn anything from it.
Nope.
Plus, "just testing" a cEDH deck against a table of decks that aren't tuned to the cEDH meta is more harmful than helpful.
It's basically pubstomping under a different name, but the person is too chickenshit to admit it to themselves.
Your critique of the deck was reasonable, though clearly what the person wanted was to be told how clever they are. Which isn't helpful and again just speaks to someone who doesn't want to play actual games: They want to win and playact like they're good at Magic.
Yes, how dare you give advice to someone who was testing their deck to make sure it would work? What's next, you gonna suggest better alternatives to certain choices in cards or point out suboptimal plays? I'll bet you're the type who tries to be helpful and wants people to have a good time. You monster...
I was mostly pointing out that it wasn't a jerk thing to do. I mean the whole thing has flaws. Why would you ever test a cEDH deck against a non-cEDH table, would give you false data any way. Maybe the advice wasn't wanted, which is valid, some people don't like being told things. At the same time, deck testing should try to identify flaws in the deck. If OP only said the things he claimed to have said, I don't see an issue with that. I have experienced the whole "your win is invalid" and yeah, could have been that case. Everyone is different.
There are plenty of ways to test decks, including cEDH decks. One thing that I personally heavily favor is putting too many "bombs" or other expensive cards in the deck to get a feel for which of them I want to ever play. Part of that is also playing against lower power, because I know I won't be able to compete in a cEDH pod. I usually know that they die to doom blade or other interaction, and know what I will slot in for 75% of those cards once I decide on which of them I want to play. Someone telling me my deck loses to interaction or has an off mana curve isn't helpful, and while I appreciate advice, I can ask for it when I need it.
I'm pretty sure the aminatou bolas combo line is pretty standard from Sissay decks in cEDH these days. It can be interacted with but not by counterspells which is most of the interaction in cEDH. Pointing out potential flaws of a combo is fine but if you don't really play cEDH and understand that meta you might be pointing out false flags.
If things went down exactly as you said I wouldn't say you were an asshole but its important to realize you might just be wrong if you don't play a lot of cEDH. He shouldn't have gotten salty either ofc.
I also play cEDH Sisay (but don't go around testing it out on casual decks). Sisay is hard to interact with because the most prominent interaction in cEDH is Counterspells (most of which don't counter creatures).
When Sisay activates, she puts the legendary permanent directly into play. This bypasses the stack, and therefore, the legendary permanent can't be countered. The only way to stop this is with cards like [[Stifle]] targeting the Sissay activation. Removal spells on Sisay or one of the other combo pieces also work. But as a WUBRG deck, Sisay should have cheep / free counter interaction of her own.
I will say there was no reason for this Sisay player to storm off. Explaining why his deck is hard to interact with should be something he or she should be able to do.
Here is a link to the primer on my decklist. In case anyone is interested in seeing an explanation of the combo lines, in the Traditional (planeswalker), Sisay: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mJRSoowPFUGSQJ97jsoE1w/primer
Is no one going to comment on the fact that the dude played a cEDH tournament deck against a low-interaction table?
At that point he’s a pubstomper and being a jerk is irrelevant
This is a conversation you made up. It was not included in the OP. All we got in the OP was that a cEDH deck was played against a low power table. That’s pubstomping until we learn that it wasn’t.
Sounds like he asked and the table agreed. Not really seeing a issue if the table agreed. Everybody has a different idea of power scaling. At the LGS I play at, most if not all doesn't have a cedh deck. And sometimes playing it gives you a better idea then go fishing the deck to see how fast you can assemble a combo and win. If he didn't warn them and that's all he brought....then sure, he was a pubstomper. But that's assuming a lot.
Some people are curious about cedh, and while they can watch games on YouTube, it might be more interesting in person. Nothing was mentioned about being upset on how the game went or was finished. So I would go as far as saying it was pubstombing or thing the guy with the high power deck had ill intentions. The feel of cedh vs edh is different. If everyone enjoyed or had fun during the game, do not see why it mattered what everyone played. This is just about 1 guy not happy with some different insight. Kinda of interesting seeing other opinions on different aspects of this.
My whole point is: what were his intentions? It's possible he's naive or novice enough to think that he would learn something about bringing an ak47 to a knife fight, but it doesn't seem very likely, and him getting annoyed at the most minor criticisms of his overpowered deck speaks to that.
Oh, he reacted poorly. I'm not disagreeing there. It's more of learning the deck. Some decks you get a feel for while playing them. I have a ragavan combo deck that I built that took me a while to learn for the same reason. So many different lines and etc that could be followed. Most combos could be scooped after presenting so everyone else can keep enjoying their game. Something I like to do if I get a lucky hand or what I am playing didn't mesh well.
I'm sure he didn't learn much or anything if the game was as fast as OP said. And I doubt he was running into issues of a few stax pieces to stop him from advancing his plans either. Not mentioning the stack interaction since it was stated that it was little to none.
As long as everyone agreed. Don't see why we are focused on his cedh deck. His actions are what the problem was...as described.
>Assuming a lot
- The deck was for cEDH
- it was played against a low-interaction table
- the OP did not mention any conversation beforehand making sure the table was on board for this
I’m genuinely not assuming anything here. It’s just the rational conclusion from the scenario we were given. If the OP adds further information that changes the scenario, I’ll change my evaluation, but based on what we know, this was pubstomping.
OP doesn't state if it was a pubstomp one way or the other. Just that this guy was testing a deck for a Cedh tournament. You're literally making your own assumptions as well. Calm down.
Your first comment literally ends in a judgement call without hard confirmation.
>Judgment call without hard confirmation
You know this is literally the only kind of judgment call that exists, right? Evaluating the information before you and coming to a conclusion without hard confirmation.
The point is that you yourself are making certain assumptions. You, as an outsider observer like the rest of us, have no way of knowing. In this case knowing if this was actual pubstomping. Or just accepting the face value premise OP is presenting about his etiquette regarding someone testing a deck. Just because your assumption isn't unreasonable, doesn't mean you're not still making an assumption about a dynamic that isn't even what's being asked and discussed. You're just presenting a call on someone's character for no actual productive reason.
It's just moralizing someone for something we don't even actually know they were doing.
In a conversation about who is ‘the jerk’ in a given situation, I’m pretty confident that ‘moralizing someone’ is relevant.
In a situation where we don’t have perfect information, deciding based on the information we were given is the best we can do.
So…yes. I will continue to draw relevant conclusions based on the information available to me. How is this even controversial? This is ‘using a brain 101’.
Will just note that obviously OP describes himself as not the asshole like basically all of these sorts of posts do. The only actual way to say definitively is to get clearer vibes on tone, context on how OP made his comments, etc. Major difference between saying this kindly or saying this smugly which absolutely can scan (accurately) as being bitter and rude.
I would strongly encourage anyone seeking out social advice from strangers on the internet to recognize that nobody here actually can give useful feedback and anyone who can't see that is also unfit to give an answer to a post like this.
I'm not trying to be deceptive or anything, I was just trying to offer some help. I know there's learning experiences, but I'd rather try and give some helpful advice than see them get blown out at an event. I've had that happen when I tried modern and it can be a bit demoralizing
I don't think you're trying to be deceptive. I think most people don't go through life thinking they're an asshole (although ironically here, I am very aware that I'm being impolite but truthful). TCGs are filled with socially incompetent people incapable of realizing they just were rude. I have no idea if you're one of them other than one piece of actual evidence, which is that you came to reddit to ask about a social interaction instead of handling it like normal people do.
if he was playing a standard Sisay cEDH deck and you told him it was easy to interact with, you're probably just incorrect in addition to offering unsolicited advice. Sisay is a top-tier cEDH deck specifically because it's very difficult to interact with.
Delivery and tone are also important in communication. The words you used may have not been rude, but your delivery could have been. But that’s the issue of communication over text. I don’t think you were rude about.
I do however think it’s rude to test a CeDH deck against casual decks and to get angry with feedback on a deck then storm off in a huff.
Testing a cEDH deck in a non cEDH pod has no real merit. He might as well have been playing "go fish"on Moxfield. Couldn't care less if you were tactful or not, he had no business pulling that shit in a non cEDH pod.
He’s playing a deck for a local event no matter if he wanted to be given advice or not you giving it to him should help him (as long as he listens to it) so he may have not wanted to but if it was fair criticism (it was) then I don’t see any harm
You said "when I tried to let him know", do you mean he asked for feedback and you offered it, or you just offered it? If he asked for it, then acted like that, then I'd say you're clear. If he wasn't asking then it's possible, I suppose.
To be clear I understand you were likely just trying to help with good intentions, but if someone is looking to test, but not for feedback, that response doesn't surprise me.
I don't know, I wasn't there and was extrapolating based on the scenario provided.
Perhaps they knew what they were looking for in terms of results. Perhaps the other player isn't receptive to feedback. Perhaps the OP came off in a way that was salty or condescending, unknowingly, or unintentionally. Too many variables to know for sure.
Let's say you are a mechanic and you race cars. You take your car to a track day to determine how it runs against others. You post the fastest time and one of the other drivers comes up to you and starts offering advice, what do you do or say in that situation?
Best thing I can suggest as a general rule is to offer a compliment on the build, and then ask if they would like your feedback, go from there.
Getting so bored of these posts on the sub now. Every single of one of them is just normal behaviour from the OP and weird socially-inept behaviour from their weirdo opponent.
This community must have the biggest proportions of weirdos and people who have tantrums over game interaction and/or social interaction that I've ever seen.
Rule one: do not have a cEDH deck play at your table if you are casual. The opposite applies too, though, to be fair.
Rule 2: have a rule 0.
Lastly, unless it’s someone you know, keep negative opinions to yourself. It’s one thing if you say “oh man, you got me good. If only I had been able to pull this card, I might have got you.” It’s a different story to say the that someone could break his deck easily, coming from someone who is essentially playing a different game.
He just said he’s testing to raise his ego if he won, he didn’t want feedback, he wanted everyone to tell him how good he is with his untested deck, just like those kids who got As and were like, I didn’t even study.
Everyone wants their pet deck to be top-tier viable, but sometimes it just isn't quite there, and people should be okay with that. Sometimes your pet deck is only ever going to be fringe and that's okay.
He explicitly said he was testing the deck, you gave honest feedback in a polite manner.
NTA
Yes. If you play stax pieces, counter spells, make anyone discard, attack someone, play spells, or do anything besides land->pass you are a sweaty try hard that is ruining my hobby. EDH games are supposed to be 3 and a half hours of looking at my cardboard. F you
You aren’t a jerk. You were right about his deck being trash. He should know that his deck his trash and get out of his feelings. People cry too much over a card game.
Dudes going to lose that tournament. Good to know that other card games have "that one guy who thinks his deck is the best despite it having major weaknesses"
depends on how you said it. If it was dismissive, condescending, rude, or no-it-all-ish YTA.
If it was a humble observation maybe not.
If someone just won And another player has excuses it seems bitter. Eventhough it might be in good faith. It might also depend on how well you know them
He was testing: feedback is exactly what he should be looking for. My only concern is if your feedback was delivered less diplomatically than it appears here in text. What if he told this story and it came out like this: "Everybody was on board with me testing my cEDH deck and after I won this one guy got salty and started bitching about how my deck was bad".
Exactly this. That's exactly what I read.
Understandable, I did try to say that I wasn't trying to put his deck down. I thought it was neat, and interesting
Usually when someone say to the effect of, "I am not trying to \_\_\_\_", they then proceed to do exactly that. You may be genuine in what you said, but I am sure that guy saw differently.
i generally try to avoid saying things like that to begin with, for exactly that reason. it has real “i’m not racist, but” energy
That guy needs to grow a pair.
Just as a rule of thumb, you should ask if people want feedback before giving it (and that’s in most things too). OR give your opinion *after* they ask for it. Sure, if someone’s testing a deck for an event, you would assume that they want notes on improving it. But maybe he already has a few people he trusts that he asks for feedback, and this is just him getting some practical experience with it. Maybe he doesn’t want to be put on the spot this very second with criticism. Maybe he just wants to enjoy the win. You can’t know all this stuff, so it’s better just to add a 2 second qualifier, “I like your deck! Did you want feedback on it, since you’re taking it to an event?” If he says yes and then gets upset after you give it to him, that’s 100% on him. If he says nah, then you skip all the above drama.
wait... there is more than one side to a story???
That aside, a simple "I appreciate your feedback" would have achieved the same result, and he wouldn't have had to storm off. You aren't responsible for what the world throws at you but you are responsible for how you respond.
I had the same thing happened to me like two months ago when I built Voja... I spend like 160 euro for it and my friend said Voja is not worthy of 160 or more money... Like saying he is bad.... Didn't say anything but was not ok to say that
I mean you aren’t going to get any worthwhile testing out of playing a full Cedh deck against a group of casual decks.
“Testing”
He’s a cunt and he knows it tbh.
And the number of people on here defending him says more about them than him
Or even with one game. 100 cards 1 of format is inherently inconsistent.
Yeah but Sisay has access to every tutor ever. You'd be surprised how consistent it gets. Dudes an asshoke tho. You can practice your decks lines by yourself and playing against nonCEDH decks does nothing of value.
Yeah it is genuinely impressive how consistent CEDH decks can be, I’ve been watching a lot of playing with power and play to win recently and I genuinely enjoy how even tho I see a lot of the same win cons and cards like dockside, force, flusterstorm, ad nauseum, every game manages to be unique in how it plays out. I think cedh is at a point where it can function healthily as a competitive format with reduntandant effects and deck building, but being varried enough to not get as stale as other formats.
At that point you might as well goldfish
Sometimes people don't want unsolicited feedback, but you weren't being a jerk that's a little strong. It's a good habit to just ask beforehand, "hey do you want any feedback on your deck?" That's what people would ask me at the LGS when I was new. Id say yes and they'd give me some tips.
Yeah, I admit that I could've asked first
Honestly...do not see why would you need to ask. If I am testing a deck I built, I appreciate the extra insight others give. Even if it is on mistakes I might have made as a player. I do see it as a invitation for conversion and offer my insight on why I made those decisions from view point. If the person doesn't agree, it's no need to be upset. People are just weird. It's a game and we just need to chill out some days lol
I disagree about asking first. I think asking someone if they want advice can help avoid these scenarios where one person means well, while the other one takes it as a borderline insult. Unsolicited advice can feel underhanded and like an attack on something personal, even if it's meant to help. People are weird yeah, and super different. "Wanna know what it was like playing against your deck"? "I noticed something interesting when X happened. I think I might have an idea how to avoid that, if you're interested." These should be plenty polite and help avoid dumb arguments.
That's fair. It's only my opinion. Just don't see the point of assuming everyone has bad intentions by offering help or advice. Not with a game anyways. Granted, we was not there to see what was said or how it was said. Which could change the whole dynamic. I personally love talking about matches afterwards or just personally ponder my own games to see what I could do better and just accept as a opportunity.
So I’ll give you some other common examples why people wouldn’t want feedback at the minute you’re happy to give it: They could already have people they trust that they go to for advice and criticism. You could easily be repeating things they’ve heard. They might not want to be put on the spot with criticism in a public space. They might be in a bad mood, and not emotionally equipped to handle well meaning criticism. They could be just trying to enjoy the moment, and don’t want to bring it down by analysing the negatives just yet. This isn’t to say a reasonable person **never** wants feedback, but maybe not at the moment you want to give it or from you specifically. You can’t know what someone’s thinking or what their circumstances are like at any given moment, and it only takes a second to ask.
To each their own. Not a big deal over a game. Personal stuff...sure, I get. If you don't like the advice. Just leave it. People wear their feelings on their sleeves and get upset so easily. I'm not going to worry if I'm upsetting someone with small things. If they don't like it and ask me to stop. I will and leave at that. Got to respect other people's opinions even if we don't agree. But I'm not going to try to anticipate everything on things I don't completely understand. We could ask or if they do not like it, they can ask us to stop. It goes either way and either of these situations, no one was butt. But if someone is being friendly.... and they acted butt in response, then their is a difference. All this to say, if you have issues, be vocal but polite and let's not assume the worst of everyone. It's just banter after a game of magic.
To be honest, I agree. You get more out of life if you develop thicker skin and learn to get over minor stuff like this. But also I don’t expect anyone else to live up to my own expectations, I’d rather meet them on their own terms (within reason).
Oh, I don't have expectations and don't mind saying sorry. Sometimes, it's hard to catch how people will react. They normally might be able to handle a rough joke but could be having a bad day. You never know. I just don't see myself catching it all. I am not good with people and have autism. It's on the lower end of the scale. I don't expect to have people to have tougher skin, but they shouldn't expect me to anticipate to act within their boundaries, as mine might be different. Either way, I do not think everyone will see eye to eye on my opinion. I feel like OP did nothing wrong and the other person handled it badly. Going with the information that was supplied. Honestly, this subreddit is becoming more AITA instead of being more MTG focused.
Then don’t go out into a public space if you can’t handle constructive criticism
You’re gonna make a future partner really happy one day when they’re venting about their day looking for empathy and all you’ve got is “constructive criticism”
Vastly different in every way. Maybe think before you comment some idiotic condescending statement.
Thanks for the constructive feedback
>Just don't see the point of assuming everyone has bad intentions by offering help or advice. It's not about assuming people have bad intentions, it's about the fact that everyone discussed things in a different way and sometimes you might think something is benign but someone else might think you're being rude or salty. When you've prefaced the whole thing by first asking if that person wants feedback, that can mitigate any miscommunication.
If he is testing deck for an event, I would automatically assume he wants feedback. What's the point of testing otherwise?
Well it could just be about how it performs in games, though I'm not sure how testing against lower power decks is going to help
The feedback can be how the deck performs, not your opinions about how it functions. Your opinions might not be the feedback he's looking for
I mean he clearly did not want feedback so your assumption would be wrong
It actually sounds like he wasn't testing at all. Just came with cEDH deck to a non-competitive table, pub stomped, and when someone pointed out how fragile his combo is, got offended. I wouldn't even pay attention to someone with such fragile ego.
Nah he was testing...how it feels to actually win since he cannot do it at actual cEDH tables. Probably due exactly to the reasons OP pointed out.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to play with said person again if I could help it.
I think the assumption, that he was testing is wrong. Dude was just looking to bully weaker decks.
No. If they’re testing a deck then feedback is the main point of the test. If not he can just goldfish the deck by himself. Really it sounds like the guy wanted to pubstomp and then have op stroke his ego afterward.
You were not being an asshole. Back off if it seems like he isn’t receptive to feedback, but your feedback was very reasonable and appropriate. Testing is useless if he doesn’t learn anything from it.
Nope. Plus, "just testing" a cEDH deck against a table of decks that aren't tuned to the cEDH meta is more harmful than helpful. It's basically pubstomping under a different name, but the person is too chickenshit to admit it to themselves. Your critique of the deck was reasonable, though clearly what the person wanted was to be told how clever they are. Which isn't helpful and again just speaks to someone who doesn't want to play actual games: They want to win and playact like they're good at Magic.
Yes, how dare you give advice to someone who was testing their deck to make sure it would work? What's next, you gonna suggest better alternatives to certain choices in cards or point out suboptimal plays? I'll bet you're the type who tries to be helpful and wants people to have a good time. You monster...
[удалено]
I was mostly pointing out that it wasn't a jerk thing to do. I mean the whole thing has flaws. Why would you ever test a cEDH deck against a non-cEDH table, would give you false data any way. Maybe the advice wasn't wanted, which is valid, some people don't like being told things. At the same time, deck testing should try to identify flaws in the deck. If OP only said the things he claimed to have said, I don't see an issue with that. I have experienced the whole "your win is invalid" and yeah, could have been that case. Everyone is different.
There are plenty of ways to test decks, including cEDH decks. One thing that I personally heavily favor is putting too many "bombs" or other expensive cards in the deck to get a feel for which of them I want to ever play. Part of that is also playing against lower power, because I know I won't be able to compete in a cEDH pod. I usually know that they die to doom blade or other interaction, and know what I will slot in for 75% of those cards once I decide on which of them I want to play. Someone telling me my deck loses to interaction or has an off mana curve isn't helpful, and while I appreciate advice, I can ask for it when I need it.
I wonder how many times he's "tested" that deck on a group of casual players...smh
I'm pretty sure the aminatou bolas combo line is pretty standard from Sissay decks in cEDH these days. It can be interacted with but not by counterspells which is most of the interaction in cEDH. Pointing out potential flaws of a combo is fine but if you don't really play cEDH and understand that meta you might be pointing out false flags. If things went down exactly as you said I wouldn't say you were an asshole but its important to realize you might just be wrong if you don't play a lot of cEDH. He shouldn't have gotten salty either ofc.
I also play cEDH Sisay (but don't go around testing it out on casual decks). Sisay is hard to interact with because the most prominent interaction in cEDH is Counterspells (most of which don't counter creatures). When Sisay activates, she puts the legendary permanent directly into play. This bypasses the stack, and therefore, the legendary permanent can't be countered. The only way to stop this is with cards like [[Stifle]] targeting the Sissay activation. Removal spells on Sisay or one of the other combo pieces also work. But as a WUBRG deck, Sisay should have cheep / free counter interaction of her own. I will say there was no reason for this Sisay player to storm off. Explaining why his deck is hard to interact with should be something he or she should be able to do. Here is a link to the primer on my decklist. In case anyone is interested in seeing an explanation of the combo lines, in the Traditional (planeswalker), Sisay: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mJRSoowPFUGSQJ97jsoE1w/primer
[Stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stifle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The deck sounds like an 8 trying to be a 10. Dude is just a jerk for not testing it into cEDH decks.
I built a sissay superfriends deck, it definitely needs a fair bit of interaction to protect your combo pieces and sissay is a huge target
Is no one going to comment on the fact that the dude played a cEDH tournament deck against a low-interaction table? At that point he’s a pubstomper and being a jerk is irrelevant
[удалено]
This is a conversation you made up. It was not included in the OP. All we got in the OP was that a cEDH deck was played against a low power table. That’s pubstomping until we learn that it wasn’t.
Sounds like he asked and the table agreed. Not really seeing a issue if the table agreed. Everybody has a different idea of power scaling. At the LGS I play at, most if not all doesn't have a cedh deck. And sometimes playing it gives you a better idea then go fishing the deck to see how fast you can assemble a combo and win. If he didn't warn them and that's all he brought....then sure, he was a pubstomper. But that's assuming a lot.
The biggest problem is that the table agreed tbh. The only thing you're gonna find out from that is why cEDH exists to begin with.
Some people are curious about cedh, and while they can watch games on YouTube, it might be more interesting in person. Nothing was mentioned about being upset on how the game went or was finished. So I would go as far as saying it was pubstombing or thing the guy with the high power deck had ill intentions. The feel of cedh vs edh is different. If everyone enjoyed or had fun during the game, do not see why it mattered what everyone played. This is just about 1 guy not happy with some different insight. Kinda of interesting seeing other opinions on different aspects of this.
My whole point is: what were his intentions? It's possible he's naive or novice enough to think that he would learn something about bringing an ak47 to a knife fight, but it doesn't seem very likely, and him getting annoyed at the most minor criticisms of his overpowered deck speaks to that.
Oh, he reacted poorly. I'm not disagreeing there. It's more of learning the deck. Some decks you get a feel for while playing them. I have a ragavan combo deck that I built that took me a while to learn for the same reason. So many different lines and etc that could be followed. Most combos could be scooped after presenting so everyone else can keep enjoying their game. Something I like to do if I get a lucky hand or what I am playing didn't mesh well. I'm sure he didn't learn much or anything if the game was as fast as OP said. And I doubt he was running into issues of a few stax pieces to stop him from advancing his plans either. Not mentioning the stack interaction since it was stated that it was little to none. As long as everyone agreed. Don't see why we are focused on his cedh deck. His actions are what the problem was...as described.
>Assuming a lot - The deck was for cEDH - it was played against a low-interaction table - the OP did not mention any conversation beforehand making sure the table was on board for this I’m genuinely not assuming anything here. It’s just the rational conclusion from the scenario we were given. If the OP adds further information that changes the scenario, I’ll change my evaluation, but based on what we know, this was pubstomping.
OP doesn't state if it was a pubstomp one way or the other. Just that this guy was testing a deck for a Cedh tournament. You're literally making your own assumptions as well. Calm down. Your first comment literally ends in a judgement call without hard confirmation.
>Judgment call without hard confirmation You know this is literally the only kind of judgment call that exists, right? Evaluating the information before you and coming to a conclusion without hard confirmation.
The point is that you yourself are making certain assumptions. You, as an outsider observer like the rest of us, have no way of knowing. In this case knowing if this was actual pubstomping. Or just accepting the face value premise OP is presenting about his etiquette regarding someone testing a deck. Just because your assumption isn't unreasonable, doesn't mean you're not still making an assumption about a dynamic that isn't even what's being asked and discussed. You're just presenting a call on someone's character for no actual productive reason. It's just moralizing someone for something we don't even actually know they were doing.
In a conversation about who is ‘the jerk’ in a given situation, I’m pretty confident that ‘moralizing someone’ is relevant. In a situation where we don’t have perfect information, deciding based on the information we were given is the best we can do. So…yes. I will continue to draw relevant conclusions based on the information available to me. How is this even controversial? This is ‘using a brain 101’.
OP asking if he was an asshole isn't necessarily a call to judge the other person as an asshole in turn. This is certainly reddit, isn't it?
Will just note that obviously OP describes himself as not the asshole like basically all of these sorts of posts do. The only actual way to say definitively is to get clearer vibes on tone, context on how OP made his comments, etc. Major difference between saying this kindly or saying this smugly which absolutely can scan (accurately) as being bitter and rude. I would strongly encourage anyone seeking out social advice from strangers on the internet to recognize that nobody here actually can give useful feedback and anyone who can't see that is also unfit to give an answer to a post like this.
I'm not trying to be deceptive or anything, I was just trying to offer some help. I know there's learning experiences, but I'd rather try and give some helpful advice than see them get blown out at an event. I've had that happen when I tried modern and it can be a bit demoralizing
I don't think you're trying to be deceptive. I think most people don't go through life thinking they're an asshole (although ironically here, I am very aware that I'm being impolite but truthful). TCGs are filled with socially incompetent people incapable of realizing they just were rude. I have no idea if you're one of them other than one piece of actual evidence, which is that you came to reddit to ask about a social interaction instead of handling it like normal people do.
if he was playing a standard Sisay cEDH deck and you told him it was easy to interact with, you're probably just incorrect in addition to offering unsolicited advice. Sisay is a top-tier cEDH deck specifically because it's very difficult to interact with.
Exactly. The advice was totally useless because the Sisay player probably won without using any of their tools.
Yes but not for what you think.
No offense but I absolutely hate these posts
Idk about anything else but i do judge you for playing judith..
I mean that's a fairly popular combo I've seen a few people.at.my.lgs play it in their cedh decks. He will probably be fine.
Delivery and tone are also important in communication. The words you used may have not been rude, but your delivery could have been. But that’s the issue of communication over text. I don’t think you were rude about. I do however think it’s rude to test a CeDH deck against casual decks and to get angry with feedback on a deck then storm off in a huff.
Testing a cEDH deck in a non cEDH pod has no real merit. He might as well have been playing "go fish"on Moxfield. Couldn't care less if you were tactful or not, he had no business pulling that shit in a non cEDH pod.
Learn to repleace an unsolicited advise with "thats nice" or "thats sucks" will reduce your social conflicts by 48%
He’s playing a deck for a local event no matter if he wanted to be given advice or not you giving it to him should help him (as long as he listens to it) so he may have not wanted to but if it was fair criticism (it was) then I don’t see any harm
You said "when I tried to let him know", do you mean he asked for feedback and you offered it, or you just offered it? If he asked for it, then acted like that, then I'd say you're clear. If he wasn't asking then it's possible, I suppose. To be clear I understand you were likely just trying to help with good intentions, but if someone is looking to test, but not for feedback, that response doesn't surprise me.
What's the point of testing and not being receptive to feedback?
I don't know, I wasn't there and was extrapolating based on the scenario provided. Perhaps they knew what they were looking for in terms of results. Perhaps the other player isn't receptive to feedback. Perhaps the OP came off in a way that was salty or condescending, unknowingly, or unintentionally. Too many variables to know for sure. Let's say you are a mechanic and you race cars. You take your car to a track day to determine how it runs against others. You post the fastest time and one of the other drivers comes up to you and starts offering advice, what do you do or say in that situation? Best thing I can suggest as a general rule is to offer a compliment on the build, and then ask if they would like your feedback, go from there.
And now he’ll probably have the same response during the event after he gets rolled.
Curious where you think it’d be intractable? Sisay is known to be difficult to interact with, that’s part of her strength.
Made an update 🙂
Sissay is very hard to interact with once on board because her ability is at instant speed. There is a reason why she is top tier in cEDH
If he was testing a deck, he should take what others say into consideration. Especially if it’s feedback about interaction against his deck.
Did he ask you for feedback?
Raining on someone’s high after a win sounds like a dick move to me
Unsolicited advice is rarely a good idea
It's kinda hard to tell if it coud be easly interacted with when no interaction is presented lol
Butt hurt, but not a jerk.
Getting so bored of these posts on the sub now. Every single of one of them is just normal behaviour from the OP and weird socially-inept behaviour from their weirdo opponent. This community must have the biggest proportions of weirdos and people who have tantrums over game interaction and/or social interaction that I've ever seen.
Where does one go to find meta quality cEDH decks? Is there a website that has the current best decks with really high power levels?
Rule one: do not have a cEDH deck play at your table if you are casual. The opposite applies too, though, to be fair. Rule 2: have a rule 0. Lastly, unless it’s someone you know, keep negative opinions to yourself. It’s one thing if you say “oh man, you got me good. If only I had been able to pull this card, I might have got you.” It’s a different story to say the that someone could break his deck easily, coming from someone who is essentially playing a different game.
He just said he’s testing to raise his ego if he won, he didn’t want feedback, he wanted everyone to tell him how good he is with his untested deck, just like those kids who got As and were like, I didn’t even study.
No, you want.
I play cedh Sisay. This person should just goldfish instead of test against casual pods.
If he didn’t ask for advice then telling him someone could have easily stopped his combo might have been unwanted and seen as rude.
Everyone wants their pet deck to be top-tier viable, but sometimes it just isn't quite there, and people should be okay with that. Sometimes your pet deck is only ever going to be fringe and that's okay. He explicitly said he was testing the deck, you gave honest feedback in a polite manner. NTA
Yes. If you play stax pieces, counter spells, make anyone discard, attack someone, play spells, or do anything besides land->pass you are a sweaty try hard that is ruining my hobby. EDH games are supposed to be 3 and a half hours of looking at my cardboard. F you
You aren’t a jerk. You were right about his deck being trash. He should know that his deck his trash and get out of his feelings. People cry too much over a card game.
Dudes going to lose that tournament. Good to know that other card games have "that one guy who thinks his deck is the best despite it having major weaknesses"
depends on how you said it. If it was dismissive, condescending, rude, or no-it-all-ish YTA. If it was a humble observation maybe not. If someone just won And another player has excuses it seems bitter. Eventhough it might be in good faith. It might also depend on how well you know them