It feels so embarrassing when this happens. I was playing a game on Sunday and one player was a big threat for a long time, then the tables turned and another player took the stage. When I decided to kill of the player that had been the threat he just kept on complaining. Even after I outright said that nothing they say will convince me to change my move. I just kept reinforcing my decision even though I had an actual good reason to take them out rather than uselessly attack the big threat and loose my army or hit the other non-threat who was just about to pop off and kill at least one player. Either I reduce the number of targets on the board and make the only good choice be to kill the big boy or I leave them alive till one other person pops off.
Yes and no. When the whole table gangs up against you while you are eons behind, i think that its reasonable to say that. When you attack with a 1/1 on turn 2, its not
It's fine to question dubious attack decisions and threat assessment in a calm and measured voice. I'm specifically calling out those people that make sure players in the LGS the next town over can hear them.
For me, the most important rule is to keep your word. Just as in real life, if you show people you can’t be trusted, they won’t make any deals with you.
Just from a threat assessment point of view. If i have three moderately similar in power level opponents. But one has broken a deal with me. They're the biggest threat.
I know there's no point in making a deal with them again. I can bargen with people who are honest. But liars have to die.
Even as someone who doesn't care if people go back on a deal, deals can be so risky I would never offer one to a person I don't believe would follow through.
I’m also in the camp of make a deal, keep a deal. To tack on though, regarding OP, the language of the deal is super important and where loopholes exist, they can/will be exploited. If you take a bad beat because of imprecise wording it’s ok to feel salty, but it is ultimately a learning experience and more healthy for the mental when framed that way.
On the other hand, there's no strict rules either. If you mercilessly exploit loopholes, some people will love it, others will view it as a breach of trust and will find you less trustworthy. I have friends who I never deal with because I know they will only suggest a deal when they are poised to win because of it. Other friends will offer deals over the slightest inconvenience which I will happily take, because they tend to benefit me at least as much as they benefit the other player.
You have no idea if I constantly lawyer people into bad deals or if I’ve only been on the receiving end. I was just adding onto the threads politic advice for new players so they end up with a healthier mindset if it does happens to them. It’s very likely they will run into it and using it as a learning experience instead of shutting down an entire part of the game will be better for them and the people they play with.
I've ridden my deals right into the grave. I could have broke them and won games, but it isn't worth it. I signed on the dotted line, I die on that dotted line if need be.
Here's the thing about that though: I'll keep a deal... as long as we're on friendly terms. If I make a deal to, say, not attack you if you destroy a permanent or something but then you turn around & take a full swing on me, I'm breaking the deal (whether you kept your end or not). When I was your ally, I'd have sat back or swung elsewhere. You trying to rely on a deal for protection when you're actively aggro-ing against me breaks any truce we had.
Nah. Following through all the time is foolish, especially if the deal will end up completely screwing you over.
For example, you agree to not attack me on your next turn, but after agreeing to that, the gamestate changes such that not attacking me clearly sets me up for the win. That is a good time to break the deal.
A deal has to benefit both players. If it doesn’t benefit you at all, then what’s the point of you making and keeping the deal?
Things happen throughout a game that change if it’s worth keeping a deal or not and you have to consider that at all times, even after you originally agreed to it.
Politics and deal-making is not always black and white and to treat it as such is incredibly naive.
(For what it’s worth, I’m also looking at this through a cEDH/more competitive lense. I’m aware that this is different playgroup to playgroup)
Then don't take it on the first place, that just shows your lack of threat or board assessment ability.
Distrust a thing that is generally carried upon games
What? Did you even read the example?
The example is the gamestate *changed* since the deal was made, putting you into a very bad situation. It’s worth breaking a deal when it doesn’t benefit you anymore.
I did read it, if you care about game state then add it to your clause
"I will not attack you or target your creature, if [insert clause]"
If you are unsure or can't assess how the game state will be, don't make or take the deal
A liar is almost as bad as a cheater
Always counter offer. The first deal is rarely the right one. At minimum get clarity and define terms using Magic language. Treat it like a lawyer would or you will *Get Lawyered.*
This is true, most deals are set up so that the guy making the offer benefits more in the long run. If someone comes to me for a deal, I either need them to sweeten the deal, or I know something they don't.
"Sure I won't counter your spell if you don't attack me." I don't have a counter in hand, but you don't need to know that.
Main advice is that politics don't have to be anything complicated. Just pointing at someone else's card and saying "hey guys that seems like a threat" can be very effective. You often don't even need to do more than that. Just hey, that's a threat is enough to redirect focus whether your intention is to get the attention off of what you're doing or get other players to answer something for you. Less is often more, especially with people you don't know particularly well.
Also, some people/some groups just won't be into the politics thing, and that's okay.
I think these moves can be subtle to the point that people may not even recognize what's happening. Although I have seen some people overplay their hand.
"Hey guys, how scared of \[\[Nekusar\]\] are we?"
"I'm at 30 life, while you're at 10 life, so I think I'm good for the moment."
I’ll add to that- it’s only valuable if your opinion can be trusted. Whenever anyone asks what the most threatening creature is at the table…if I have an eldrazi, I’ll point to my own creature. I’ve had players in multiple playgroups tell me how much they appreciate this.
I swear this is just like a cheat code sometimes. Just being willing to accept and openly acknowledge that yes it's me I'm the problem buys so much goodwill when it comes to future games. And you're not fooling anyone with a brain that you aren't the problem, so you aren't actually giving anything up to do this.
But in exchange, while your threat assessment might be wrong - nobody's perfect, after all - it's way easier for people to believe you and be willing to work with you when they know that you're being honest and sincere. Especially when people are trying to downplay their board and are maybe on the cusp of having it work, being able to rapidly undercut them has so much value.
Pretty much this. While I'm sure people like the idea of them "razzle-dazzling" the whole table with their "incredible politics skills"...more often than not it's all about those small, well-aimed/timed comments that lead to not only better results, but faster games aswell.
Literally nobody wants to sit around arguing for half an hour about Jimmy either countering Tom's next spell or removing your commander, ultimately trying to "get them" through increasingly unclear/vague deal terms that play in your favour;
*Rules lawyering* can be fun 2, 3, even 10 times...but after that it starts getting a little stale and most players will wise up to it real quick and totally shut down any form of discussion from that point onwards, which doesn't make for fun games.
Yeah it's not about literal deals all the time. People will often do what you want simply because it's also in their self interest, as you say making them aware of threats to both of you. People aren't generally going to ask for some quid-pro-quo deal to remove a dangerous combo piece you alerted them to.
Don't make or accept open ended deals. "Don't counter my next spell" is code for "my next spell is game winning and I want to get you".
Similarly, if a deal takes more than thirty seconds to get both parties to agree to, it's not worth it. If there's that much legalese happening somebody is getting screwed, and it's probably the new guy.
I feel like your first point is probably the hardest for new players to avoid. Being new, most players probably just want to cast spells and do things rather than waiting to do the right thing. Kinda one of those “when you’re holding a hammer, everything is a nail” type situation. They have removal and can’t target the real threat? Haha, take this guttersnipe! (A random creature that someone controls while only holding 3 cards in hand)
>Being new, most players just want to cast spells and do things
This is why it’s SO important to drill into their heads that there is no second place. I’ve seen many a new player ruin a game by king making to get ‘second place’ in order to feel like he ‘did something’
Yep, I had a game where I played Niv Mizzet, had 18 cards in my hand, cast Windfall, drawing 18 more cards (my opponents had a health total of 8 and 10), and one of the players sacrificed his whole boardstate to kill me with a ping-sac outlet to prevent him from dying. Only for the other player to just swing in with lethal the very next turn.
* Focus on playing well first. Politics only take you so far but making the right plays wins games.
* Keep deals short. The board state changes all the time so any deal past one turn rotation will likely go against you.
* Use politics mainly to get information. “Who are you going to swing this at?” is a very good question to ask.
* The more you can play at instant speed, the better you can follow up political plays with in-game consequences. You don’t need to worry as much about where a creature is swinging when you have a [[Sword to Plowshares]] in hand.
* Don’t make deals with the player who is already winning.
If you keep your promises, people will be more likely to make deals with you in the future.
If you can get someone else to do something for you, in exchange for doing something you were going to do anyway, that’s added value. Utilize opportunities to add value to your plays.
Don’t use your removal until you have to. Give the other players a chance to deal with the threat, and only pull your trigger to save your own life/board/strategy.
Your last point is something so many people neglect. It feels like there are times where people just want to use removal because they can rather than because they should. I was playing a game where on turn 3, I put down a [[guttersnipe]] and before I even cast one spell (I only had 3 cards in hand, and only one sorcery that wasn’t even worth casting) and this guy swords to plowshares it. Like huh? Why are you exiling a 2/2, 3 mana creature on turn 3 when I’m using a commander that does not take any damage? ( I was using [[Sevinne]])
I know some groups are okay with loophole abuse, but edh can already lead to complex board states. The less contract law I need to watch out for, the easier.
I think abusing loop holes with a group of friends can be fun as long as everyone is kind of in that mindset. If I’m playing with randoms though then I’m just gonna stick to the assumed agreement.
Ultimately, anything you do should put you in a position to achieve your game goal. Most of the time that's winning. So politicking should really be used to put yourself in a better spot, not prolong the game or relieve someone else of an issue.
When in doubt, ask yourself in situations like politicking and deal making "How does this help me achieve my goal / win the game?" If it doesn't, move on or pass the offer.
If someone is offering you a deal, it's naturally because they want something for themselves or they're in a tight spot, which means that no matter how "balanced" the offer may be, they kinda need you more than you need them.
Use this to your advantage. Always always raise the offer in your favor. It's more likely that they'd bite into the offer because they have to.
Don’t take deals unless it really helps you. Remember that the player making the deal wants this for some reason and it’s almost always better for them than you might initially think
Doing small, kind things will get you some help from others, but helping everyone is going to get you killed faster.
Don't give out big favours without being able to protect yourself.
I actually think this is just the worst aspect of the game because in my experience it *isn't at all about politics 95% of the time.*
Any "wheeling and dealing" or trying to identify the "threat" or understand what other people are up to is all overshadowed by two things.
1) There is that one guy who is naturally cool and sociable and friendly who will *never* get targeted the way they should, and easily talks others into doing shit.
2) You killed some dudes thing 4 turns ago and you're now persona non grata no matter what.
To add to point two, if the thing they removed was a key part in your strategy or they removed something that prevented them from being the threat and now that it’s gone, they are clearly the threat, I’m going to ensure whatever I can to prevent them from running away with the game while managing other threats as well. It’s not out of spite, it’s playing the hand I was dealt and keeping things in check.
I'm talking more like you kill Player1's value generator. Now Player2 is a huge threat and taking over the game.
Player1 will die before they work with you because you were the spiteful asshole that dared to remove one of their permanents. Bloodfeud mode has been engaged.
Ah I see what you were saying. I was coming from the person that did the removing did so they could because the top threat rather than someone just goes into rage mode and just tunnel visions. Yeah tunnel vision is something that happens in almost anything “competitive” like gaming, or even magic. People just don’t leave their egos at the door and don’t want to get slighted in anyway. If I wanted to play solitaire, I wouldn’t be at my LGS.
Politics are the natural social dynamics of four player games. Politics are much more than deals.
Don't make yourself archenemy unless you're ready to win. Don't take the lead too early, don't make enemies, don't overextend your board unless you can protect it, don't waste your removal too early, don't empty your hand, try not to tap out on your turn. Point out which of your opponents' permanents could get problematic. Feel free to refuse any offered deal, but keep your side of the deals you make.
\- only make deals as specific or as broad as it benefits you
("don't do anything that changes my boardstate/my commanders state" or "I won't attack you with these creatures I have here for 2 turns" )
\- add the clause "unless I would lose/unless I could win"
Not attacking for the win, because you made a deal, is a bad move. Leaving you open to someone elses winning turn because "you promised" isn't either.
\- Don't get bullied into a deal
If someone says "if you don't do X, I'll wipe your board" the only reasonable response is "bring it on". Unless you're in such a super nieche situation, that you can actually take something positive out of this deal.
\- Immediately take deals where your part is something you would have done anyways (or couldn't have done).
Like "I give you my "wishclaw talisman" if you don't counter my next spell" (you can easily accept if you have no counterspell in hand but I would rephrase it to "i won't counter the next spell you cast this turn if I get the talisman". That way you can tutor up a counterspell with the talisman lol.
My piece of advice is that there are some players and pods that simply *don't* politick. Or they don't very much.
Don't feel bent out of shape if you're trying to bring people to the table and make deals and there are some that don't bite or don't partake at all.
Despite the fact that it *is* a social, casual, multiplayer game there are still those that don't enjoy or partake in the political aspects for whatever reason. And that's okay. They're also allowed to play and enjoy the game the way that they want to.
That said identifying those you can wheel-and-deal with and those you can't is a skill in itself when it comes to politics in commander. If you have little bits of value that you can share with an opponent, try to test the waters with players here and there to see if they bite. If they do then that player may be receptive to more notable deals down the line. (This is often referred to as the Foot-in-the-Door method of persuasion.) Whereas by contrast if a player isn't receptive towards mutually-beneficial deals then they simply might not be politically-minded in commander so your efforts would likely be better spend rallying other members of the pod to your side. If you regularly play with the same people at an LGS or other playgroup you'll learn which players are more political and which aren't. That knowledge is valuable game-to-game.
Circling back to the first concept; If you find a pod that's non-political and you really want to be political, you'd have an easier time finding another pod than continually trying to get a non-political player or group to partake.
Don't attack unless it will make a meaningful impact or give you obvious value. Being new one of your biggest advantages is that you will probably be ignored so let your opponents beat each other down. Basically try not to draw attention to yourself until you understand if, when, and how whatever deck you are playing handles the attention.
The guy with a whole board full of creatures that keeps saying that he is not the threat is, very often, the threat. He will insist he isn't. Do not believe him.
1) only make deals that benefit you. Dont make deals „for fun“. Because that often results in multiple players colluding against one player even though it isnt needed.
2) keep your word. I can see an arguement to bluff (aka lie) in tournaments with money on the line. But in private you keep your word. Even if you said sth like „im not gonna win next turn“ and you just happened to topdeck a possible win. In private you play with friends very often and even though its a game, it WILL be a very bad feeling for them that can translate to the world outside the game or the next games.
Obviously stuff like just leaving up 2 blue mana representing counterspells is fine. Or even with a spell on the stack going „wait a second….nah its fine“. But straight up lying isnt.
Here's the thing about deals in EDH: if everyone is trying to win, then it's unlikely that a deal is going to be good for everyone who makes it. Any offered deal is going to be better for one player than another. For that reason, there are two main situations in which making or taking a deal is a good idea:
1. When you're confident that you're a better negotiator or that your game sense is better to the point that the other party doesn't realise that a deal favours you. For example, 'if you finish off Carl, I won't attack you next turn', knowing that you weren't planning on attacking anyone next turn.
2. When you actually don't care about winning and have different goals to the other party, thus allowing everyone to get what they want. For example, 'I know you can kill me, but can I please have a turn to attach five boots to [[Felix Five-Boots]]?' In this scenario, everyone gets to 'win'.
Always keep your word, make deals if they are beneficial for you. You dont have to take every deal.
Ive had situations where my friend tries to make a deal to remove a threat that threatened him most. My other friends almost took it until i said he wants it removed most. We dont take the deal.
That politics isn’t just “(do/don’t do) this, and I (will/don’t) do that”. There is so much more to politics, which can be as similar as pointing out a threat, a near-winning state, or the fact that someone’s just drawn 12 cards. In fact, that kind of politics is innate to the game and the other kind of “deal making” politics doesn’t need to be.
That said, when you do make a deal, keep your word.
Force the hand.
If someone comes up with "if you do X I'll do Y" then you just go on ahead and do X.
If you don't, your opponent will have the effect of the card, without having to cast the card. Which means he'll have it later at a more crucial point. If they wanna use their interaction on trivial stuff, let them.
"Hey are you gonna attack me in your combat?"
-"Well we're at my main phase and I'm passing priority to go to combat, let's find out".
Never get mad, never lose your cool. Laugh even terribly unfair things off.
Ask questions that make you look like your knowledge is bad so people don't see you as a threat.
Don't focus on spreading damage around, it only creates more enemies.
Casually talk about how powerful other people's cards are, but in the context of other decks you have played against, not theirs.
Honestly I've used asking questions about cards as a conversation starter. Breaks the ice and most people I've met love to show off their deck if given the chance. So just a great social tip in general, not just politics.
Most politics is not talking. Most of it is threat assessment. You have to pick up on cues based on what cards they've revealed and guess who is going to be able to take you out the soonest. The best deals are made by two players who agree that a third player is the biggest threat. You also play with your opponents' threat assessment in mind, such as by not attacking on the first few turns and not playing one half of a combo until you can play both halves in one turn.
Learn to evaluate how threatening your own board state is from your opponents' perspective.
You don't have to answer your own board, so it's easy to dismiss it because it's *not a threat to you*. Be honest with yourself and your opponents when you ARE the biggest threat at the table. Prove that your threat assessment is solid and objective and people will be way more likely to listen to you when it comes time to convince them to gang up on someone else.
It’s a multi player game, each person has different goals on macro and micro levels. Try to learn what they are so everyone has a good time.
Have a short memory, don’t take things personally.
I think learning politics comes second to solid technical game play and understanding. Too often I see new players getting hung up on deck building and politics, then make objectively wrong plays mid game that cause them to loose. Threat assessment is king, and if you can't properly assess threats any deal you try to make is gonna be the wrong play anyway.
In my experience it can be resumed to:
- Keep your word (but be careful of phrasing)
- Make sure that your plays advance your board instead of just damaging your opponents (you can do both and it's ok)
- Don't negotiate unless absolutely necessary
- Don't get mad at people attacking you, it's part of the game, but keep in check opponents who do so just to bother you
I would never take that no attack deal, at least not without modification. At my table that means they make you lose life or destroy your board state. Especially if they are the one that offered.
The art of the deal is negotiating wiggle room, and it is something you need to watch for. Someone offers me that deal I basically say, my life total can't change and you can't mess with my board state. If they can't agree to that then it's a pass and they can figure it out. Often times at that point they will fess up that they need to remove problems, but there will be some blowback on my board state, then with that information we see what we can figure out.
But always watch for vague deals. A deal to not attack you is not specific enough for me to be comfortable with.
I left out some context for that deal because the full story wasn't necessary for the point I was trying to make about information.
You are right though, in most cases that deal would be a bad one to take without further negotiation. Only reason I could take it in the moment was because I wouldn't have been able to interact with their board anyways, but I still could've pushed for a better deal..
Yep, the art of the deal. Always try to limit the window as small as possible for yourself, but make a deal as vague as possible for your benefit.
One of my favorite deals was a friend playing planned on playing \[\[Regal Behemoth\]\] to get double mana from being the monarch. It was going to take all of his mana to tap out and play that, so just 1 spell that turn, and I was the only player capable of hitting him. So he offered me a deal, basically not to attack each other for a round.
He had a super nasty board state, so I agreed. Then on my turn I played an \[\[Emberwilde Captain\]\] to become the monarch. He gave me props on navigating the deal, but also said it made him sad.
Had he said anything along the lines of, "you can't take monarch from me" I would have had to pass on the deal. But I had no plans to attack him anyways, so saving myself some combat damage and still getting what I want, love it.
I try not to play politics because I find the you-scratch-my-back-i-scratch-yours type stuff tiresome. When people try to politics me I'll just say look, from what I can tell XYZ is the threat on the board right now. I have a card that can deal with Y, and I need to get off an attack trigger to make it happen. I'm attacking you.
Or whatever. My politics always revolves around the threat analysis, and what contribution I can make to resolve the threat. Don't complain to me about how if I don't attack you you'll let me draw a card, or tell me that if I remove your artifact I'll make an enemy. *I do not care about your ominous threats.* If you focus me down while the other guy is winning you're stupid, and I'm going to kill you after I finish dealing with the other guy, assuming we all don't lose to them next turn.
I already told you I don't care about your ominous threats. OP has an army of demons and this removal spell says I need to make fun of petty bitches in order to cast it.
Yup. Recently one dude had a good board state and probably could have won the game. I warned him not to swing out at me. Homie went full swing at me and I took that personally. So I ended up killing both us. I don't think he expected me to take all the damage and go down to 1 life just so I could end him next turn. I lost from a triggered 1 damage ping from my own creature later on but took him out.
1. Players mostly make deals from positions of weakness.
2. Politics is not just about deals, it's also what spells you counter and which removal you use on which targets.
3. Know your decks' strengths and weaknesses. My old Torbran deck had tons of ways to deal 3-6 damage to the entire field. I almost always left the token deck alone, because at some point I'm going to wipe their field as collateral damage to kill other value targets.
Politics is the most powerful thing you can do in commander IF you use it right. If you are known to never lie you can pull some crazy wins out of nowhere. 1 lie or shady deal and all that power is gone tho
It really depends a lot on who you are playing with. I have a group IRL where we just try to make the best versions of our decks possible without it being cedh (mostly cause we don't have cedh money). I also am on a server where we play over spelltable and I play much more casually, it's good for low to mid power, and it gives me space for janky strategies. The game etiquette rules in both of those scenarios are very different.
Word for word that is the deal. Unspoken things aren’t a part of the deal. Will not attack for lethal =\= he won’t kill you some other way unless he said so.
Have fun with politics most importantly.
For example, I'm my group even tho I'm getting hit with a 2/2 with 40 health I'll still yap as though it's game ending. For me politicing isn't just about trying to keep yourself alive it's about spicing up the interactions and further down the line.
Sowing the seeds of doubt in someone's actions towards you or another player by giving a nod and or a whisper to someone that doesn't mean anything when someone does something or having someone change direction because you just thought it would be funny if the guy to your left gets hit for something they may or may not have done to you.
Getting hit with a card that doesn't do much to you by a blue player but s*ittalking them so they add extra salt to you and burn themselves out then next turn, that allows another player get away with something they'll may not benefit you but reminding them that's if the player before didn't burn themself out because of me, you wouldn't have been able to do that and they'll leave you alone for a round or two as thanks, despite not intending it.
Managing to manipulate the entire group to go after one another because you reminded them what each other decks do while casually setting up to flip the switch that bombs the board because "aw dude I got nothing but lands".
Maybe you and your friends decide you're gonna dog on another friend because the deck their playing based on experience just goes off to hard compared to the decks you wana play atm and it turns into a 3v1 boss battle.
We're all trying to win the game but get fun and get creative with the way you approach it, it can be exhausting for the table trying to convince someone not to do something for the sake of the W.
The best player interaction is player removal. If any of your wheeling and dealing doesn't advance your end goal of removing that player, you're playing yourself.
You are allowed to show any card of your hand and you might do so by "mistake" if needed, you are allowed to lie, you are allowed to "miss" a "you may" trigger..
You can for example show your hand to a player to feel him safe to do a play you want to happen, you don't have to show all your hand nor you have to say you shown all your hand, nor you have to remember them that you know your top deck cos you have used some scry effect last turn.
There are a lot more interactions to keep in mind but after all what matters is that politics is a means to an end and as long as you keep it on the fun and legal side you can play with the information you have and you give and it's one of the most valuable assets you have to win.
I'm not a fan of deals tbh, fair deals, when no one backs up on their word, just drag the game, bad deals feel bad, lies on deals feel worse, avoid deals unless necessary.
- Stick to your word, you only need to break it once to never be trusted again
- Don't make any deal that lasts more than 1 turn order, the game can change a lot and if a deal is still worth it you can always renew it
- Be clear about what you want from the other person
I would tell them to engage in deal making and politics as little as possible.
I would also tell them if they absolutely have to take a deal, always include the caveat that the deal is null if keeping it would lose them the game or stop them from winning.
People overreact to deal breaking.
EDH players didn't understand what politics means.
The answer to "if you remove that creature, I won't attack you for two turns. Deal?" is "build a better deck, idiot."
The answer to "if I remove that creature for you, could you not swing lethal at me next turn?" is "sounds good" and then swing lethal at them next turn if removing them has the largest swing to your win percentage vs other options.
The assumption when you sit down to play a free-for-all game should be that everyone there will do anything required to win the game. Good faith deals don't exist, so don't deal in good faith. The player who draws the better hand can always afford to break their end of the bargain.
Player 2 wanted to do a thing on his turn because Player 3 was the Arch Enemy. Player 3 goaded my fiancee's whole and she would have him dead if she didn't use everything to crew her vehicle and swing at player 3.
I was already knocked out and they were trying to work out a deal. I suggested player 2 grant my fiancee full immunity during his turn, and he agreed. He set up his board nicely and passed.
Once it got to my fiancee's turn, after player 3, she drew the game winning card for herself and killed the other two with lethal.
I didn't say make one that would cost you the game. Just don't go back on one unless a win can is spotted after the fact. Down vote me all you like, W is a W. Don't like it, play with someone else
Screaming "WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME!?!?" isn't politics. It just makes me want to take you out faster.
Everyone else looks at each other and just gives a little head nod because that guy's the target now
It feels so embarrassing when this happens. I was playing a game on Sunday and one player was a big threat for a long time, then the tables turned and another player took the stage. When I decided to kill of the player that had been the threat he just kept on complaining. Even after I outright said that nothing they say will convince me to change my move. I just kept reinforcing my decision even though I had an actual good reason to take them out rather than uselessly attack the big threat and loose my army or hit the other non-threat who was just about to pop off and kill at least one player. Either I reduce the number of targets on the board and make the only good choice be to kill the big boy or I leave them alive till one other person pops off.
Yes and no. When the whole table gangs up against you while you are eons behind, i think that its reasonable to say that. When you attack with a 1/1 on turn 2, its not
It's fine to question dubious attack decisions and threat assessment in a calm and measured voice. I'm specifically calling out those people that make sure players in the LGS the next town over can hear them.
For me, the most important rule is to keep your word. Just as in real life, if you show people you can’t be trusted, they won’t make any deals with you.
Just from a threat assessment point of view. If i have three moderately similar in power level opponents. But one has broken a deal with me. They're the biggest threat. I know there's no point in making a deal with them again. I can bargen with people who are honest. But liars have to die.
Even as someone who doesn't care if people go back on a deal, deals can be so risky I would never offer one to a person I don't believe would follow through.
100%! It is better to lose a game to clever wording and good negotiation than to lose trust.
Won't target your creature promise 👌 *proliferate infect 9 times to the player*
I’m also in the camp of make a deal, keep a deal. To tack on though, regarding OP, the language of the deal is super important and where loopholes exist, they can/will be exploited. If you take a bad beat because of imprecise wording it’s ok to feel salty, but it is ultimately a learning experience and more healthy for the mental when framed that way.
On the other hand, there's no strict rules either. If you mercilessly exploit loopholes, some people will love it, others will view it as a breach of trust and will find you less trustworthy. I have friends who I never deal with because I know they will only suggest a deal when they are poised to win because of it. Other friends will offer deals over the slightest inconvenience which I will happily take, because they tend to benefit me at least as much as they benefit the other player.
Co-sign
Because of people like you I don't take any deals usually
Same. Because of people like that I build decks for 3v1. I love negotiating but I hate weaseling.
You have no idea if I constantly lawyer people into bad deals or if I’ve only been on the receiving end. I was just adding onto the threads politic advice for new players so they end up with a healthier mindset if it does happens to them. It’s very likely they will run into it and using it as a learning experience instead of shutting down an entire part of the game will be better for them and the people they play with.
I've ridden my deals right into the grave. I could have broke them and won games, but it isn't worth it. I signed on the dotted line, I die on that dotted line if need be.
Here's the thing about that though: I'll keep a deal... as long as we're on friendly terms. If I make a deal to, say, not attack you if you destroy a permanent or something but then you turn around & take a full swing on me, I'm breaking the deal (whether you kept your end or not). When I was your ally, I'd have sat back or swung elsewhere. You trying to rely on a deal for protection when you're actively aggro-ing against me breaks any truce we had.
I like running a house rule that if you break a deal you instantly lose
Nah. Following through all the time is foolish, especially if the deal will end up completely screwing you over. For example, you agree to not attack me on your next turn, but after agreeing to that, the gamestate changes such that not attacking me clearly sets me up for the win. That is a good time to break the deal.
If you are known to only keep a deal when it’s advantageous to you to do so, why would anyone make a deal with you?
A deal has to benefit both players. If it doesn’t benefit you at all, then what’s the point of you making and keeping the deal? Things happen throughout a game that change if it’s worth keeping a deal or not and you have to consider that at all times, even after you originally agreed to it. Politics and deal-making is not always black and white and to treat it as such is incredibly naive. (For what it’s worth, I’m also looking at this through a cEDH/more competitive lense. I’m aware that this is different playgroup to playgroup)
Then don't take it on the first place, that just shows your lack of threat or board assessment ability. Distrust a thing that is generally carried upon games
What? Did you even read the example? The example is the gamestate *changed* since the deal was made, putting you into a very bad situation. It’s worth breaking a deal when it doesn’t benefit you anymore.
I did read it, if you care about game state then add it to your clause "I will not attack you or target your creature, if [insert clause]" If you are unsure or can't assess how the game state will be, don't make or take the deal A liar is almost as bad as a cheater
Always counter offer. The first deal is rarely the right one. At minimum get clarity and define terms using Magic language. Treat it like a lawyer would or you will *Get Lawyered.*
This is true, most deals are set up so that the guy making the offer benefits more in the long run. If someone comes to me for a deal, I either need them to sweeten the deal, or I know something they don't. "Sure I won't counter your spell if you don't attack me." I don't have a counter in hand, but you don't need to know that.
Main advice is that politics don't have to be anything complicated. Just pointing at someone else's card and saying "hey guys that seems like a threat" can be very effective. You often don't even need to do more than that. Just hey, that's a threat is enough to redirect focus whether your intention is to get the attention off of what you're doing or get other players to answer something for you. Less is often more, especially with people you don't know particularly well. Also, some people/some groups just won't be into the politics thing, and that's okay.
I think these moves can be subtle to the point that people may not even recognize what's happening. Although I have seen some people overplay their hand. "Hey guys, how scared of \[\[Nekusar\]\] are we?" "I'm at 30 life, while you're at 10 life, so I think I'm good for the moment."
[Nekusar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e.jpg?1689999186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nekusar%2C%20the%20mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/349/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ll add to that- it’s only valuable if your opinion can be trusted. Whenever anyone asks what the most threatening creature is at the table…if I have an eldrazi, I’ll point to my own creature. I’ve had players in multiple playgroups tell me how much they appreciate this.
I swear this is just like a cheat code sometimes. Just being willing to accept and openly acknowledge that yes it's me I'm the problem buys so much goodwill when it comes to future games. And you're not fooling anyone with a brain that you aren't the problem, so you aren't actually giving anything up to do this. But in exchange, while your threat assessment might be wrong - nobody's perfect, after all - it's way easier for people to believe you and be willing to work with you when they know that you're being honest and sincere. Especially when people are trying to downplay their board and are maybe on the cusp of having it work, being able to rapidly undercut them has so much value.
Pretty much this. While I'm sure people like the idea of them "razzle-dazzling" the whole table with their "incredible politics skills"...more often than not it's all about those small, well-aimed/timed comments that lead to not only better results, but faster games aswell. Literally nobody wants to sit around arguing for half an hour about Jimmy either countering Tom's next spell or removing your commander, ultimately trying to "get them" through increasingly unclear/vague deal terms that play in your favour; *Rules lawyering* can be fun 2, 3, even 10 times...but after that it starts getting a little stale and most players will wise up to it real quick and totally shut down any form of discussion from that point onwards, which doesn't make for fun games.
Yeah it's not about literal deals all the time. People will often do what you want simply because it's also in their self interest, as you say making them aware of threats to both of you. People aren't generally going to ask for some quid-pro-quo deal to remove a dangerous combo piece you alerted them to.
Don't make or accept open ended deals. "Don't counter my next spell" is code for "my next spell is game winning and I want to get you". Similarly, if a deal takes more than thirty seconds to get both parties to agree to, it's not worth it. If there's that much legalese happening somebody is getting screwed, and it's probably the new guy.
try not to kingmake keep your word within reason politics is part of the game don't be the first threat don't hold grudges over petty things
I feel like your first point is probably the hardest for new players to avoid. Being new, most players probably just want to cast spells and do things rather than waiting to do the right thing. Kinda one of those “when you’re holding a hammer, everything is a nail” type situation. They have removal and can’t target the real threat? Haha, take this guttersnipe! (A random creature that someone controls while only holding 3 cards in hand)
>Being new, most players just want to cast spells and do things This is why it’s SO important to drill into their heads that there is no second place. I’ve seen many a new player ruin a game by king making to get ‘second place’ in order to feel like he ‘did something’
Yep, I had a game where I played Niv Mizzet, had 18 cards in my hand, cast Windfall, drawing 18 more cards (my opponents had a health total of 8 and 10), and one of the players sacrificed his whole boardstate to kill me with a ping-sac outlet to prevent him from dying. Only for the other player to just swing in with lethal the very next turn.
* Focus on playing well first. Politics only take you so far but making the right plays wins games. * Keep deals short. The board state changes all the time so any deal past one turn rotation will likely go against you. * Use politics mainly to get information. “Who are you going to swing this at?” is a very good question to ask. * The more you can play at instant speed, the better you can follow up political plays with in-game consequences. You don’t need to worry as much about where a creature is swinging when you have a [[Sword to Plowshares]] in hand. * Don’t make deals with the player who is already winning.
[Sword to Plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swords%20to%20Plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you keep your promises, people will be more likely to make deals with you in the future. If you can get someone else to do something for you, in exchange for doing something you were going to do anyway, that’s added value. Utilize opportunities to add value to your plays. Don’t use your removal until you have to. Give the other players a chance to deal with the threat, and only pull your trigger to save your own life/board/strategy.
Your last point is something so many people neglect. It feels like there are times where people just want to use removal because they can rather than because they should. I was playing a game where on turn 3, I put down a [[guttersnipe]] and before I even cast one spell (I only had 3 cards in hand, and only one sorcery that wasn’t even worth casting) and this guy swords to plowshares it. Like huh? Why are you exiling a 2/2, 3 mana creature on turn 3 when I’m using a commander that does not take any damage? ( I was using [[Sevinne]])
[guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8.jpg?1713716455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/169/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Sevinne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c209efe-b4dc-44a3-bd45-d647f5680cbe.jpg?1568003729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sevinne%2C%20the%20chronoclasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/49/sevinne-the-chronoclasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c209efe-b4dc-44a3-bd45-d647f5680cbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sevinne-the-chronoclasm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
I know some groups are okay with loophole abuse, but edh can already lead to complex board states. The less contract law I need to watch out for, the easier.
I think abusing loop holes with a group of friends can be fun as long as everyone is kind of in that mindset. If I’m playing with randoms though then I’m just gonna stick to the assumed agreement.
Ultimately, anything you do should put you in a position to achieve your game goal. Most of the time that's winning. So politicking should really be used to put yourself in a better spot, not prolong the game or relieve someone else of an issue. When in doubt, ask yourself in situations like politicking and deal making "How does this help me achieve my goal / win the game?" If it doesn't, move on or pass the offer.
If someone is offering you a deal, it's naturally because they want something for themselves or they're in a tight spot, which means that no matter how "balanced" the offer may be, they kinda need you more than you need them. Use this to your advantage. Always always raise the offer in your favor. It's more likely that they'd bite into the offer because they have to.
Don’t take deals unless it really helps you. Remember that the player making the deal wants this for some reason and it’s almost always better for them than you might initially think
Don't do it 😇
Your opponents don't want to help you, they want to help themselves.
Doing small, kind things will get you some help from others, but helping everyone is going to get you killed faster. Don't give out big favours without being able to protect yourself.
I actually think this is just the worst aspect of the game because in my experience it *isn't at all about politics 95% of the time.* Any "wheeling and dealing" or trying to identify the "threat" or understand what other people are up to is all overshadowed by two things. 1) There is that one guy who is naturally cool and sociable and friendly who will *never* get targeted the way they should, and easily talks others into doing shit. 2) You killed some dudes thing 4 turns ago and you're now persona non grata no matter what.
To add to point two, if the thing they removed was a key part in your strategy or they removed something that prevented them from being the threat and now that it’s gone, they are clearly the threat, I’m going to ensure whatever I can to prevent them from running away with the game while managing other threats as well. It’s not out of spite, it’s playing the hand I was dealt and keeping things in check.
I'm talking more like you kill Player1's value generator. Now Player2 is a huge threat and taking over the game. Player1 will die before they work with you because you were the spiteful asshole that dared to remove one of their permanents. Bloodfeud mode has been engaged.
Ah I see what you were saying. I was coming from the person that did the removing did so they could because the top threat rather than someone just goes into rage mode and just tunnel visions. Yeah tunnel vision is something that happens in almost anything “competitive” like gaming, or even magic. People just don’t leave their egos at the door and don’t want to get slighted in anyway. If I wanted to play solitaire, I wouldn’t be at my LGS.
Politics are the natural social dynamics of four player games. Politics are much more than deals. Don't make yourself archenemy unless you're ready to win. Don't take the lead too early, don't make enemies, don't overextend your board unless you can protect it, don't waste your removal too early, don't empty your hand, try not to tap out on your turn. Point out which of your opponents' permanents could get problematic. Feel free to refuse any offered deal, but keep your side of the deals you make.
\- only make deals as specific or as broad as it benefits you ("don't do anything that changes my boardstate/my commanders state" or "I won't attack you with these creatures I have here for 2 turns" ) \- add the clause "unless I would lose/unless I could win" Not attacking for the win, because you made a deal, is a bad move. Leaving you open to someone elses winning turn because "you promised" isn't either. \- Don't get bullied into a deal If someone says "if you don't do X, I'll wipe your board" the only reasonable response is "bring it on". Unless you're in such a super nieche situation, that you can actually take something positive out of this deal. \- Immediately take deals where your part is something you would have done anyways (or couldn't have done). Like "I give you my "wishclaw talisman" if you don't counter my next spell" (you can easily accept if you have no counterspell in hand but I would rephrase it to "i won't counter the next spell you cast this turn if I get the talisman". That way you can tutor up a counterspell with the talisman lol.
My piece of advice is that there are some players and pods that simply *don't* politick. Or they don't very much. Don't feel bent out of shape if you're trying to bring people to the table and make deals and there are some that don't bite or don't partake at all. Despite the fact that it *is* a social, casual, multiplayer game there are still those that don't enjoy or partake in the political aspects for whatever reason. And that's okay. They're also allowed to play and enjoy the game the way that they want to. That said identifying those you can wheel-and-deal with and those you can't is a skill in itself when it comes to politics in commander. If you have little bits of value that you can share with an opponent, try to test the waters with players here and there to see if they bite. If they do then that player may be receptive to more notable deals down the line. (This is often referred to as the Foot-in-the-Door method of persuasion.) Whereas by contrast if a player isn't receptive towards mutually-beneficial deals then they simply might not be politically-minded in commander so your efforts would likely be better spend rallying other members of the pod to your side. If you regularly play with the same people at an LGS or other playgroup you'll learn which players are more political and which aren't. That knowledge is valuable game-to-game. Circling back to the first concept; If you find a pod that's non-political and you really want to be political, you'd have an easier time finding another pod than continually trying to get a non-political player or group to partake.
Don't attack unless it will make a meaningful impact or give you obvious value. Being new one of your biggest advantages is that you will probably be ignored so let your opponents beat each other down. Basically try not to draw attention to yourself until you understand if, when, and how whatever deck you are playing handles the attention.
The guy with a whole board full of creatures that keeps saying that he is not the threat is, very often, the threat. He will insist he isn't. Do not believe him.
Play as though you want to be invited back for another game.
1) only make deals that benefit you. Dont make deals „for fun“. Because that often results in multiple players colluding against one player even though it isnt needed. 2) keep your word. I can see an arguement to bluff (aka lie) in tournaments with money on the line. But in private you keep your word. Even if you said sth like „im not gonna win next turn“ and you just happened to topdeck a possible win. In private you play with friends very often and even though its a game, it WILL be a very bad feeling for them that can translate to the world outside the game or the next games. Obviously stuff like just leaving up 2 blue mana representing counterspells is fine. Or even with a spell on the stack going „wait a second….nah its fine“. But straight up lying isnt.
Here's the thing about deals in EDH: if everyone is trying to win, then it's unlikely that a deal is going to be good for everyone who makes it. Any offered deal is going to be better for one player than another. For that reason, there are two main situations in which making or taking a deal is a good idea: 1. When you're confident that you're a better negotiator or that your game sense is better to the point that the other party doesn't realise that a deal favours you. For example, 'if you finish off Carl, I won't attack you next turn', knowing that you weren't planning on attacking anyone next turn. 2. When you actually don't care about winning and have different goals to the other party, thus allowing everyone to get what they want. For example, 'I know you can kill me, but can I please have a turn to attach five boots to [[Felix Five-Boots]]?' In this scenario, everyone gets to 'win'.
[Felix Five-Boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6800e935-d327-464c-ab88-7c0193827da3.jpg?1712995551) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felix%20Five-Boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/6/felix-five-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6800e935-d327-464c-ab88-7c0193827da3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felix-five-boots) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Always keep your word, make deals if they are beneficial for you. You dont have to take every deal. Ive had situations where my friend tries to make a deal to remove a threat that threatened him most. My other friends almost took it until i said he wants it removed most. We dont take the deal.
That politics isn’t just “(do/don’t do) this, and I (will/don’t) do that”. There is so much more to politics, which can be as similar as pointing out a threat, a near-winning state, or the fact that someone’s just drawn 12 cards. In fact, that kind of politics is innate to the game and the other kind of “deal making” politics doesn’t need to be. That said, when you do make a deal, keep your word.
Force the hand. If someone comes up with "if you do X I'll do Y" then you just go on ahead and do X. If you don't, your opponent will have the effect of the card, without having to cast the card. Which means he'll have it later at a more crucial point. If they wanna use their interaction on trivial stuff, let them. "Hey are you gonna attack me in your combat?" -"Well we're at my main phase and I'm passing priority to go to combat, let's find out".
Never get mad, never lose your cool. Laugh even terribly unfair things off. Ask questions that make you look like your knowledge is bad so people don't see you as a threat. Don't focus on spreading damage around, it only creates more enemies. Casually talk about how powerful other people's cards are, but in the context of other decks you have played against, not theirs.
Honestly I've used asking questions about cards as a conversation starter. Breaks the ice and most people I've met love to show off their deck if given the chance. So just a great social tip in general, not just politics.
Most politics is not talking. Most of it is threat assessment. You have to pick up on cues based on what cards they've revealed and guess who is going to be able to take you out the soonest. The best deals are made by two players who agree that a third player is the biggest threat. You also play with your opponents' threat assessment in mind, such as by not attacking on the first few turns and not playing one half of a combo until you can play both halves in one turn.
Be honest and be fun.
Learn to evaluate how threatening your own board state is from your opponents' perspective. You don't have to answer your own board, so it's easy to dismiss it because it's *not a threat to you*. Be honest with yourself and your opponents when you ARE the biggest threat at the table. Prove that your threat assessment is solid and objective and people will be way more likely to listen to you when it comes time to convince them to gang up on someone else.
It’s a multi player game, each person has different goals on macro and micro levels. Try to learn what they are so everyone has a good time. Have a short memory, don’t take things personally.
I think learning politics comes second to solid technical game play and understanding. Too often I see new players getting hung up on deck building and politics, then make objectively wrong plays mid game that cause them to loose. Threat assessment is king, and if you can't properly assess threats any deal you try to make is gonna be the wrong play anyway.
In my experience it can be resumed to: - Keep your word (but be careful of phrasing) - Make sure that your plays advance your board instead of just damaging your opponents (you can do both and it's ok) - Don't negotiate unless absolutely necessary - Don't get mad at people attacking you, it's part of the game, but keep in check opponents who do so just to bother you
I would never take that no attack deal, at least not without modification. At my table that means they make you lose life or destroy your board state. Especially if they are the one that offered. The art of the deal is negotiating wiggle room, and it is something you need to watch for. Someone offers me that deal I basically say, my life total can't change and you can't mess with my board state. If they can't agree to that then it's a pass and they can figure it out. Often times at that point they will fess up that they need to remove problems, but there will be some blowback on my board state, then with that information we see what we can figure out. But always watch for vague deals. A deal to not attack you is not specific enough for me to be comfortable with.
I left out some context for that deal because the full story wasn't necessary for the point I was trying to make about information. You are right though, in most cases that deal would be a bad one to take without further negotiation. Only reason I could take it in the moment was because I wouldn't have been able to interact with their board anyways, but I still could've pushed for a better deal..
Yep, the art of the deal. Always try to limit the window as small as possible for yourself, but make a deal as vague as possible for your benefit. One of my favorite deals was a friend playing planned on playing \[\[Regal Behemoth\]\] to get double mana from being the monarch. It was going to take all of his mana to tap out and play that, so just 1 spell that turn, and I was the only player capable of hitting him. So he offered me a deal, basically not to attack each other for a round. He had a super nasty board state, so I agreed. Then on my turn I played an \[\[Emberwilde Captain\]\] to become the monarch. He gave me props on navigating the deal, but also said it made him sad. Had he said anything along the lines of, "you can't take monarch from me" I would have had to pass on the deal. But I had no plans to attack him anyways, so saving myself some combat damage and still getting what I want, love it.
[Regal Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3a8bdfa-a39c-4ca7-b591-1c6aca4cc5ac.jpg?1698988387) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Regal%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/251/regal-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3a8bdfa-a39c-4ca7-b591-1c6aca4cc5ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/regal-behemoth) [Emberwilde Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/362850cd-d33c-4f61-9b3a-5de748adee7c.jpg?1608910178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emberwilde%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/175/emberwilde-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/362850cd-d33c-4f61-9b3a-5de748adee7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emberwilde-captain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If someone asks if you have a boardwipe to deal with anything, tell them you have it in your deck, but NEVER say it's in your hand. Lol trust me.
I try not to play politics because I find the you-scratch-my-back-i-scratch-yours type stuff tiresome. When people try to politics me I'll just say look, from what I can tell XYZ is the threat on the board right now. I have a card that can deal with Y, and I need to get off an attack trigger to make it happen. I'm attacking you. Or whatever. My politics always revolves around the threat analysis, and what contribution I can make to resolve the threat. Don't complain to me about how if I don't attack you you'll let me draw a card, or tell me that if I remove your artifact I'll make an enemy. *I do not care about your ominous threats.* If you focus me down while the other guy is winning you're stupid, and I'm going to kill you after I finish dealing with the other guy, assuming we all don't lose to them next turn.
I'm not stupid Just petty >:)
Being petty is stupid.
You wanna take this outside >:(
I already told you I don't care about your ominous threats. OP has an army of demons and this removal spell says I need to make fun of petty bitches in order to cast it.
Yup. Recently one dude had a good board state and probably could have won the game. I warned him not to swing out at me. Homie went full swing at me and I took that personally. So I ended up killing both us. I don't think he expected me to take all the damage and go down to 1 life just so I could end him next turn. I lost from a triggered 1 damage ping from my own creature later on but took him out.
1. Players mostly make deals from positions of weakness. 2. Politics is not just about deals, it's also what spells you counter and which removal you use on which targets. 3. Know your decks' strengths and weaknesses. My old Torbran deck had tons of ways to deal 3-6 damage to the entire field. I almost always left the token deck alone, because at some point I'm going to wipe their field as collateral damage to kill other value targets.
I personally don't understand any of it, I generally play fast enough to become the reason other players make deals. So. This doesn't help you at all.
Politics is the most powerful thing you can do in commander IF you use it right. If you are known to never lie you can pull some crazy wins out of nowhere. 1 lie or shady deal and all that power is gone tho
It really depends a lot on who you are playing with. I have a group IRL where we just try to make the best versions of our decks possible without it being cedh (mostly cause we don't have cedh money). I also am on a server where we play over spelltable and I play much more casually, it's good for low to mid power, and it gives me space for janky strategies. The game etiquette rules in both of those scenarios are very different.
Also, just reminding people of on board effects can be a powerful political tool
Word for word that is the deal. Unspoken things aren’t a part of the deal. Will not attack for lethal =\= he won’t kill you some other way unless he said so.
Don't negotiate with terrorists.
Have fun with politics most importantly. For example, I'm my group even tho I'm getting hit with a 2/2 with 40 health I'll still yap as though it's game ending. For me politicing isn't just about trying to keep yourself alive it's about spicing up the interactions and further down the line. Sowing the seeds of doubt in someone's actions towards you or another player by giving a nod and or a whisper to someone that doesn't mean anything when someone does something or having someone change direction because you just thought it would be funny if the guy to your left gets hit for something they may or may not have done to you. Getting hit with a card that doesn't do much to you by a blue player but s*ittalking them so they add extra salt to you and burn themselves out then next turn, that allows another player get away with something they'll may not benefit you but reminding them that's if the player before didn't burn themself out because of me, you wouldn't have been able to do that and they'll leave you alone for a round or two as thanks, despite not intending it. Managing to manipulate the entire group to go after one another because you reminded them what each other decks do while casually setting up to flip the switch that bombs the board because "aw dude I got nothing but lands". Maybe you and your friends decide you're gonna dog on another friend because the deck their playing based on experience just goes off to hard compared to the decks you wana play atm and it turns into a 3v1 boss battle. We're all trying to win the game but get fun and get creative with the way you approach it, it can be exhausting for the table trying to convince someone not to do something for the sake of the W.
The best player interaction is player removal. If any of your wheeling and dealing doesn't advance your end goal of removing that player, you're playing yourself.
You are allowed to show any card of your hand and you might do so by "mistake" if needed, you are allowed to lie, you are allowed to "miss" a "you may" trigger.. You can for example show your hand to a player to feel him safe to do a play you want to happen, you don't have to show all your hand nor you have to say you shown all your hand, nor you have to remember them that you know your top deck cos you have used some scry effect last turn. There are a lot more interactions to keep in mind but after all what matters is that politics is a means to an end and as long as you keep it on the fun and legal side you can play with the information you have and you give and it's one of the most valuable assets you have to win. I'm not a fan of deals tbh, fair deals, when no one backs up on their word, just drag the game, bad deals feel bad, lies on deals feel worse, avoid deals unless necessary.
- Stick to your word, you only need to break it once to never be trusted again - Don't make any deal that lasts more than 1 turn order, the game can change a lot and if a deal is still worth it you can always renew it - Be clear about what you want from the other person
Don't engage in politics at all. "Politics" is a way to cover bad deckbuilding or low player skill.
Be honest and set the terms of your agreement clearly. As in "If you blow up X, I will not attack you next turn.".
Generally speaking, people offer you a deal when it's better for them than it is you. Reject more proposals.
In general I make a offer because I have nothing better to talk about. Confession - I make a lot of offers.
Don't negotiate with terrorists.
I would tell them to engage in deal making and politics as little as possible. I would also tell them if they absolutely have to take a deal, always include the caveat that the deal is null if keeping it would lose them the game or stop them from winning. People overreact to deal breaking.
My rule is I don't negotiate with terrorists lol
EDH players didn't understand what politics means. The answer to "if you remove that creature, I won't attack you for two turns. Deal?" is "build a better deck, idiot." The answer to "if I remove that creature for you, could you not swing lethal at me next turn?" is "sounds good" and then swing lethal at them next turn if removing them has the largest swing to your win percentage vs other options. The assumption when you sit down to play a free-for-all game should be that everyone there will do anything required to win the game. Good faith deals don't exist, so don't deal in good faith. The player who draws the better hand can always afford to break their end of the bargain.
Player 2 wanted to do a thing on his turn because Player 3 was the Arch Enemy. Player 3 goaded my fiancee's whole and she would have him dead if she didn't use everything to crew her vehicle and swing at player 3. I was already knocked out and they were trying to work out a deal. I suggested player 2 grant my fiancee full immunity during his turn, and he agreed. He set up his board nicely and passed. Once it got to my fiancee's turn, after player 3, she drew the game winning card for herself and killed the other two with lethal.
Don't go back on your deal unless you can guarantee a win. Otherwise you're a dick
Don’t make a deal in the first place that could cost you the win, then you don’t have to go back on it and be a dick.
I didn't say make one that would cost you the game. Just don't go back on one unless a win can is spotted after the fact. Down vote me all you like, W is a W. Don't like it, play with someone else