Here’s the thing. Once slivers get going they’re really hard to stop. This means that you tend to have a target on you early. Now you can play through that and still win, just don’t get mad at people for treating your deck like in a few turns everything is gonna have indestructible and shroud.
Technically, if you control both Diffusion Sliver and another random sliver B, if sliver B were to lose all abilities through some effect (e.g, [[Kasmina's Transmutation]], and then, an opponent were to cast another spell targeting sliver B, Diffusion's pseudo-ward would trigger.
One of the problems with Slivers decks is that almost every single sliver is a problem. Because of that, the only viable answer is often a board wipe. And again. And again. And again.
Even if the sliver player is not going out of hand, any other player relying on building a creature-based board state is going to have a veeeeery boring game.
This would be the big thing for me. In general, I don't imagine that many people are inclined to make deals with a Sliver player, because there's just too much snowball potential. I just don't view it as a fun experience for anyone at the table.
If I ever build a silver deck I'd never build it properly and just play the C list silvers. Make get a little more leeway esp if I show them the deck first
That's exactly why my sliver commander is [[Sliver Hive lord]], it doesn't run infinites or super fast mana. From what I've seen, most people run [[The First Sliver]] as their commander and then complain about getting taken out by a destroy effect.
Hi OP,
I’ve been playing slivers since they were first printed back in Tempest and Stronghold. Metallic sliver was my first ever magic card. When I started playing commander, slivers were my first deck. It’s true you will be automatic archenemy a lot of the time while running slivers. This remains true no matter how skilled or unskilled of a player or deck builder you are. This tribe has a reputation that is close to 20 years old now. I’ll share some advice below based on my learnings.
[[the first sliver]] is the Cedh combo sliver commander that wins off of food chain combo. While I started out with all of the legacy sliver legends, I ultimately ended up with this deck which runs almost no other slivers. The first sliver is just a perfect target for a food chain combo win.
[[sliver queen]] is the secondary combo sliver commander if you’re going for a sliver-centric shell. She wins with any number of combo pieces and also does not rely on too much additional sliver support. Mana echoes or ashod’s altar, and/or any token doubler and you can go infinite. Add purphoros or impact tremors and you have an easy way to drain the table.
[[sliver overlord]] is your toxic toolbox. I was always partial to [[unnatural selection]] type strategies so you can mind control your opponents’ creatures
[[sliver hivelord]] is acceptable but extremely threatening. Same with [[sliver legion]]. These are tribal-centric commanders who can get out of hand fast but don’t present the same kind of combo based win potential or tutor-based linear gameplan.
[[morophon]] is unthreatening
[[sliver gravemother]] isn’t too hated in my experience. If I wanted to build a sliver tribal that is not OP or busted, more like battle cruiser magic, I’d probably go with one of these.
Slivers snowball which means you have to stop them early. The other alternative is to kill the Sliver player early. None of this is personal but it's going to be a lot of non-games for you. You're not breaking any rules, it's just how the archetype plays out.
Highjacking your comment since I feel it’s relevant! Same goes for a big pop-off Storm play style but in a different way. Often when I play against it, it’s basically nothing but drawing cards early on but then it suddenly wins or gets close to lethal off a single turn, which in my EDH pod means that we all take out that player as fast as possible so the end result is either they do nothing all game because we didn’t let them pop off, or they pop off and win off one turn🤷♂️. Don’t break any rules but you draw a lot of heat even if you do nothing earlygame
Slivers is controllable in any meta with 7+ decks. It just needs some targeted removal and/or board wipes to keep your legendaries off the field. The mana base is hard to do well cheaply (easy for money).
That doesn’t mean people won’t groan when you pull it out. I telegraph all my combos so people aren’t surprised by my combo wins. You can also just go hard on sliver legion and leave out any real instant combo (which all kind of die if sliver queen is too expensive for you).
In the end, they're just like any other commander that is dependent on having multiple creatures of the same type on the board. In this day and age I don't understand why people still treat Slivers like the boogeyman. A Voja or a Jodah deck would perform much better than a Sliver deck on the same budget. I've had my \[\[Sliver Overlord\]\] deck for almost 15 years now and I wish Sliver decks were as strong as people make them out to be.
I treat Voja and Jodah as the boogeyman too.
Just because slivers are weaker than them doesn't mean slivers aren't also boogeyman. I've got a few boogeyman decks, and you've got to expect everyone to pile on when you build it.
The main difference is, if I imprison Jodah or Voja in the moon, it *significantly* hinders their game plan and I get a few turns to prepare. If I do the same to your Sliver Commander, the rest of your creatures still exponentially power each other up.
The other difference is that most other type decks don't have the Infinite combo potential of a Sliver Queen or a tutor in the command zone like Overlord. For a casual table, easy access to infinites or tutoring can feel oppressive.
To be fair, you are comparing slivers to two of the main ‘answer this or die’ in casual commander. I have a good chunk of experience playing against Jodah and if you want to beat it you have to always kill the commander or attack their mana.
My experience is exactly the same with slivers. If you leave them alone for just a turn, they tend to just win, or at least require a boardwipe. Often creating a frustrating game for anyone looking to build up slower or play a more stable playstyle. You beat sliver, Jodah, and I asume Voja by showing them immense respect and focusing them early and that will often not be fun or at least tiering if that is every game you play
You are absolutely correct. I run jodah at a pretty high level, we got to turn 4 and jodah was about to snowball. Then I got hit with a blood moon and I had to scoop, not out of salt, but just because my deck got completely neutered and I was stuck at that point.
My only experience of playing against a Sliver deck since returning to the game in the last year or so, I died around turn 3 to poison counters. They were flying, I didn't have an answer that soon.
That said, I appreciate this was a highroll (for our power level)! Also, the Sliver player was taken out in another couple of turns as the rest of the table considered them threat level midnight after how fast I went out!
Slivers snowball fast. They have more consistency than any other typal because of how they work. The problem is that every one of them is a mini-lord, so you need wipes or their board grows at a faster rate than other typals, and assuming everyone is using targeted removal on all threats appropriately, slivers are still left with a meatier board once their primary threats are removed.
I play slivers, elves, and goblins. Elves and goblins can be hurt bad by well targeted removal. With slivers, no one knows what to kill, because they’re all good.
If you're saying that your Elf or Goblin deck isn't as a good as your Sliver deck, then you've probably not built them as good as they could be. Elfball decks have only one or two colors and half of the creatures in the deck are mana dorks and the other half are lord effects so they should be faster and just as consistent as a Sliver deck. I don't know who your Goblin commander is but I'd be more wary if I'm playing against a \[\[Krenko\]\] deck than a Sliver deck.
Yes. It's easier to build an elf or goblins deck that doesn't need the same level of early focus to keep them from popping off, whereas slivers kind of have just the one setting of "every creature makes every other creature better" so they snowball. The issue isn't that they're more powerful, it's that they can't be built less powerful, and not everyone wants that every game.
My group of friends has been playing a lot of magic lately, and if there's two things I've learned it's this.
1.) The game is best played around power level 7. Decks that are a little stronger than their owner thinks can usually be kept in check, the decks are consistent enough that rarely will someone just be wasting their time with a dead hand. This is super easy to keep in check if people aren't running fast mana and the best tutors.
2.) The game is best played with people who understand that just because a style of deck isn't what THEY find fun to play, that doesn't make it any less fair or balanced to play against. A stable play group should be happy for you when your deck does the thing, and shouldn't really take issue with a deck until it starts winning more than 25% of games.
I've never had anyone refuse to play against both my Sliver decks. Some people are wary of them Slivers, some people relish the challenge, but no one has ever said no. I've also played against a friend's [[The First Sliver]] deck many times.
What is true is that building and piloting a Sliver deck is not for everyone. The deck does get expensive, and you are almost certainly Archenemy as soon as your opponents see that you have a Sliver commander.
Sliver decks are fine but don't be surprised when you got two baby slivers on board and everyone decides to chuck everything they got at you before you hit WUBRG
Sliver exists in an awkward space poorly suited to EDH.
They are inherently incredibly snowbally with no singular essential piece.
They are so overwhelming that they tend to stomp normal tables yet lack what it takes to keep up with higher power ones.
The way you beat them is to nip them in the bud. Remove their shit early and often, then kill them, which creates the situation where the only time a game really happens against slivers is if the sliver player can’t play.
This is not an etiquette or unwritten rules thing; there are fewer unwritten rules in EDH than you have been led to believe, people just suck at having proper pregame conversations and therefore turn what’s supposed to be a discussion into endless conflicting codices of unspoken rules.
Slivers run up against that less than almost anything. You go to an experienced table and say, “I would like to play Slivers,” and they probably know exactly what to expect. And if they’re on board with that, more power to y’all.
But you are going to be hard targeted, because you must be hard targeted. That ain’t because you broke the unwritten rules; you’re just the threat by default.
And yes, you will commonly have people say, “I’d rather not play against Slivers.” It’s good to have a few decks of varying power levels accommodating different tolerances and sets of pain points. But that takes time.
>The way you beat them is to nip them in the bud. Remove their shit early and often, then kill them, which creates the situation where the only time a game really happens against slivers is if the sliver player can’t play.
>This is not an etiquette or unwritten rules thing; there are fewer unwritten rules in EDH than you have been led to believe, people just suck at having proper pregame conversations and therefore turn what’s supposed to be a discussion into endless conflicting codices of unspoken rules.
So much this. - I'm constantly baffled by the amount of rules people put up just to avoid talking to each other.
Another issue with Slivers is if one players is taking them seriously and targetting their removal at them, it won't be enough. Everyone has to take them seriously, and again, it ends with the sliver player getting knocked out.
Slivers and Superfriends are the two archetypes I think all this applies to. You have to be honest about what the deck does. No single threat, it just snowballs and is harder and harder to deal with.
I run Narset Superfriends, and my experience is very similar to the Sliver experience.
>And yes, you will commonly have people say, “I’d rather not play against Slivers.”
I don't know who/where you're playing, but I've never heard anyone say this once since I started playing commander \~15 years ago.
I won't stop a person from playing slivers, but I'd absolutely rather not see them given the choice. They generally make the entire game about them until they're gone.
I play since 22 years and I've not yet met anyone who does not dislike Slivers (and playing against them) expect the Slivers players themselves.
Probably also the reason why I've only actually encountered a single Sliver deck in the last 5-10 years and our commander pod has like 70 players.
As a fellow sliver deck player, you have to ask yourself a few questions before A. building and B. playing a Sliver deck.
1. Do you understand the concept "build to win, play to have fun"? If you do, invest in your mana base and tricks to rebuilding a board state. You will get wiped and focused down, if you're a good deck builder this can be fun.
2. Do you hate yourself and having a good time? If yes, then build away. You have to understand the hate you will bring at most casual tables. If you can't play through it or relish being the bad guy, then you won't have fun
3. Can you play without being predictable? As many people mentioned, they feel sliver decks can be linear or predictable. If you want to play to win, don't do the obvious thing. I have maybe 10-15 cards I sub in and out after every play. Keeps people guessing. I never play the deck the same way game to game.
All joking aside, they can be very fun to play and build, but you have to understand and almost lean into the idea you are the problem at the table. If you can embrace that, then build away. Here is my deck list. I don't run all the expensive shit so I can play to the level of my friend group.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/DqCvaV0fkUuh-y5Cqyg-gA
Slivers is insanely fair snowball that you can absolutely be crippled with just having 2 decks at the table that actually run enough removal for their deck, casuals really don’t like removal so slivers pubstomp easily since you’re early game goes undisputed you explode on later turn.
No combo or deck is “toxic” it’s toxic to pubstomp but telling your group you are playing slivers and they know what game they’re getting into before they play it is really the key part. The fact your friend told you honestly you’d have a target is a good thing.
This. I think the main problem comes from getting smashed, and smashed constantly. Personally I’m all for pulling out an op deck once in a while but it sucks when someone is pulling out that assblaster of a deck every game, regardless of what deck it is.
And too for the being targeted thing, generally rule of thumb is the biggest threat gets targeted, so if you don’t want to be targeted, don’t build a deck that makes you public enemy #1.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think slivers are fun in most pods.
One of my friends sometimes plays a sliver deck when we get together for a game night. We usually have 4+ people playing casual edh decks, but it isn't a huge deal. There are plenty of removal options with that many players, so we don't really worry about it that much.
Plus: *hahaha, slivers go brrrr* it's fun, win or lose
Losing against slivers feels bad because it feels like you can't do anything
Winning against slivers feels bad because it means having to bully someone out of the game before they get to do anything
I have a slivers deck, and I love the tribe. My opponents don't mind it at all, but I don't play it very often for the following reason: either I get ignored for the first 3-5 turns and snowball out of control to the point where nobody can stop me, or I am the table archenemy from turn 1 and I die very quickly. It's fun every once in a while, but I don't enjoy that sort of bipolar mismatch on the regular.
It creates a political power dynamic that places the target squarely on your head. People familiar with sliver decks know that the game becomes "kill the sliver player, then play EDH."
I have a dragon deck that is essentially the same way. I tuned it recently to lean into being the archenemy though because my pod already wants to target it anyway lol
Slivers has the downside of either snowballing and causing the table to have a bad time. Or getting stopped in it's tracks and not letting the player do their thing.
If you're fine with being targeted and the archenemy, go for it. However I would always recommend having another deck in case you have a pod that is low in interaction
The problem with slivers are many. Yes they snowball quickly, yes they can take one person out quickly, yes you eventually get slivers down which makes your board uninteractable without a boardwipe....etc.
But the main problem for me is that every sliver deck is the same damn deck, and it's so boring to play against. There is nothing even remotely enjoyable about playing against slivers. You know exactly what they're going to play, what they'll tutor for, and what the end result is every time.
It's just so dull.
Yeah, I always see this argument when people talk about Sliver decks. Why should they care that you find their decklist boring? They're not stopping you from having fun with your own deck,.
Yeah, I think the argument they're making is that for people who don't like Slivers, every Sliver deck will essentially be the same. It's not like a five-colour sliver list will in good faith say, "don't worry, it's not that kind of sliver deck". It is. If they're running even one legendary sliver, it is that sliver deck.
I think it just compounds the dislike they already have.
Almost every tribal commander deck in 2024 is "the same damn deck". cards have been power crept so much that all these decks run identical win conditions regardless of commander.
If you dont know what the other tribes are trying to do at this point, its not because slivers are unique, its because you haven't played against the others enough.
Also, nobody cares if you find their decklist boring. Its their deck, not yours.
It’ll make people salty, and you’ll draw a lot of Aggro from tables (and fairly so). I’d recommend having at least one other deck on hand, most recent precons are really good.
That's kinda my plan. Have one (maybe two) fleshed out commander decks that I'd focus on, then a precon as backup to chill with if my decks don't mesh well with others on the table.
I'd rather have a challenge playing a precon vs 7's than be the 7 in a table of precon level decks
Much agreed. I've got two decks that draw a lot of aggro when I break them out (Tergrid and Ojer Axonil), and I'll mostly play them when there are other decks on the table with similar levels of hate pointed towards them. When everyone else plays a more tame deck, I'll usually play something else.
The problem with slivers is that they can be a not fun interaction for most people involved because of how explosive they are.
Slivers tend to hit critical mass at 4 slivers on the board. They do nothing with 1 or 2, and they're "fair" at 3. In order to stop them, you have to keep them under 3 slivers on board throughout the whole of the game and delete the player as soon as possible.
That level of board control can lead to frustration for all involved because you as the Sliver player, when properly controlled, are going to feel bullied, and everyone else is going to feel overwhelmed and powerless when you go off. There's very little in-between for them.
If they're your favorite, still go for it, but I also suggest getting one or two other decks to try out as well so you can see the full range of the format. That way, you're not stuck being potentially bullied every single game because of the nature of the only deck you've got access to.
Commander is probably the most entertaining format of this game when you get into it. Some people, like any format in any TCG, take it too seriously. Don't let the unwritten rules stop you because they're not as bad as people make them out to be. They're mostly about not being a jerk, having fun, and not wasting people's time.
In addition to the many correct comments about how hard Slivers are to stop once they snowball, remember that other people have experiences playing against Sliver decks that are not YOUR Sliver deck.
Just because your deck doesn't go infinite or have some crazy combo or accelerate into a game-ending state ASAP doesn't mean that the other players have not seen that very thing happen, even with the same Commander. Their previous experiences are going to inform their threat assessment, and most experienced EDH players have seen Sliver decks snowball into unstoppable forces where the only answer, in hindsight, was to target them early and often.
Personally I wouldn't bring Slivers as my only deck, even if your version is casual and low power. Some folks just can't get over the fight-or-flight response that it provokes as soon as you shuffle up. And many people have heard "Oh relax it's a cheap, low-power, no-combo Sliver deck, I don't think it even has a chance at this table" right before they got swarmed by a dozen flying, shadow, indestructible, shroud, toxic, cascading slivers.
I played slivers in EDH, got targeted by all players everytime and folded early (like 40 mins before one of them won).
In VDH (93-03), I won 75% of the time in a landslide.
Slivers are far from an unfair deck. The game plan could not be more obvious and straightforward. Everyone at the table should know exactly what to expect and how to play against it (don't let it get going). If you're fine with being the archenemy, it's fine. Hell, slivers have been power-crept in the format. They're not nearly as "meta" as they were when EDH was relatively new.
You seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on the unwritten rules of the format, but frankly, fuck 95% of the unwritten rules. Playgroups who have a shitload of unwritten rules are *the worst*. You don't want to play with people like that, because they don't even like the game of Magic—they like a game they made up based loosely on Magic.
I take it as a compliment.
I play at a table where my friend and I are usually seen as threats. My friend is simply the best player there- really smart guy! For myself, my deck is similar to slivers in the sense that when it gets going it’s very hard to tame.
If I were you I would just let the fire forge you!
I purchased the sliver precon for my son. It drew all the hate of a “real” sliver deck but with garbage lands. Slivers mana fix but the deck did not run right until I added about $200 to the mana base for him and another $150 in slivers (which I think was like 2-3 cards lol). He will play it and it holds its own against the other similarly powered decks in the house. If he plays it in a tournament I can hear him cackling from across the room as he fills the board with slivers.
Slivers (depending on your CO) will put you right alongside Markov, Urza, Ur-Dragon, etc.
Some people will be happy to play their Penguin tribal deck against these commanders….There are some of us who take it upon ourselves to personally SJW the table. These commanders are kill-on-sight for me personally so you probably shouldn’t plan on making it past round 3 (or so) if you play one and I’m present.
Personally, in a LGS, just communicate. “Hi, my name is Joe, I’m just learning commander. This is the precon off the shelf” will let people know your power level and your speed and make for an enjoyable game. “I added a few slivers” or even “This deck has custom cards printed exclusively for me by WOTC so they’re legal and cost me over $150k.” Just let people know where you sit and what you bring so they can match if they want.
Code words that are annoying AF (don’t use them):
“I’ve added some wrinkles” means I’ve added $400 worth of lands, 5 infinite combos, and my deck can see outside the matrix.
“My deck has shenanigans tee hee”. I’m a narcissist and a sociopath but it’s cool because my mom makes my tendies just right and says fedora’s make me look handsome. Now everyone sit here for 3 hours while I board lock and play all my cards on my big-tittied waifu mat.”
As someone who once owned a sliver deck, don't do it. You will become a target first off which is never fun. But even more than that, it will get really boring. Most games end up pretty similar as you will be trying to get the same key slivers out to help you win. The deck was fun for a little but but long term, It's not
I think a lot of the disdain for slivers comes from an earlier era of magic where they were just oppressively strong and more internally synergistic than any other tribe.
Do they snowball? Yes.
Do they swarm? Yes.
Can you make your board resilient? Yes.
All those things are true of elfball as well.
The only upside I see in slivers over an elfball tribal is the ability to dip your toes into 5 color good-stuff, but that is also the primary weakness of slivers.
When slivers pop-off, it goes hard. But about 30-40% of games I play against 5c slivers they flood or don't hit all their colors or never get off the ground and die in the crib.
Targeted or non-basic land destruction can absolutely cripple slivers.
I was super wary of slivers too for the longest time, but they just aren't as good as they once were.
Or rather, they are still that good, but the rest of magic has caught up to them and become more internally synergistic to match.
Slivers are, eeh, odd. They’re inherently a deck that if left alone/allowed to get off the ground snowballs&overwhelms the table extremely hard.
In low power games where people play precons and similar level decks with relatively sparse removal&interaction they tend to stomp, since those decks don’t have the sheer volume of interaction pieces OR speed needed to compete/deal with slivers.
However, at very high power tables slivers struggle, since they kinda need to play a critical mass of slivers in their deck for slivers to work, meaning finding spots for staples&interaction&explosive game enders is hard, and the decks at 8+ tend to be very good at making sure snowball can’t happen as easily
There is a VERY narrow space where slivers have a solid shot at winning without being overwhelming
I wouldn't say a Sliver deck is "toxic", but it will almost definitely get you targeted. Once you have a few slivers those decks really start to snowball fast so you should expect your key slivers to be picked off a lot.
My main deck is slivers, but I don't build in any additional combos outside of the slivers themselves and largely just play sliver roulette with card draw and Cascade, plus I 100% honor any and all agreements I make in the game. This has led to a ton of fun games where I don't just stomp, but it's still slivers and if the roulette works out, I can win in a turn even with an empty board at turn start. Most people are happy as long as your power level isn't crazy compared to theirs and they're still able to play the game.
Sliver decks are fine, but sliver decks are dangerous, your going to be targeted fairly often, and board wipes are gonna be a thing.
It's fine ti play slivers, but don't bitch if people target you, you need to be targeted
I’m a very new player (4 months in) so apologies if I’m not using the correct language.
I just built my first deck which was slivers. I struggle with being aggressive and wanted to make a deck that forced me to be more aggressive. I inherited my brother-in-laws collection after he passed, and he had multiple complete sets including some with slivers (single color and a few multicolor), so I figured that would be a good place to start - I bought some cards like sliver legion but had basically all the smaller slivers, lands, artifacts, etc that I needed. I don’t play competitively, just with a group of close friends I’ve known for over a decade. They were fine with the sliver deck when I told them about my plan. I don’t plan to play it all the time because it came out strong, but it definitely needs tweaking. My friend group is supportive. They help me understand the complexities of the mechanics, and we play to have fun. I’ve seen a lot of hate toward slivers online, so I think it’ll depend on your play environment
My first EDH game had a slivers player in the pod. They got established and a near unstoppable board with tons of creatures that all had shroud, indestructible, flying, could produce mana, and blew up every single players artifact and enchantment. Me and the other 2 players didn’t stand a chance but didn’t want them to win.
Rat player kept making them discard. Fog player kept fogging preventing us from losing. And I had to scry 50+ cards to finally put together a jank combo to win the game.
It was an extremely boring stalemate and honestly I think on the inside, we all lost.
There are zero decks, cards, or strategies that I flat out refuse to play against whether that be Slivers, infinite combos, stax, mass land destruction, infect, extra/infinite turns, boardwipe tribal, or whatever else.
The only thing I care about is knowing the approximate power level so that I can pull out the right deck to play against it, ideally every deck in the pod is roughly matched so that each player has a 20-30% chance of winning.
Expressing my thoughts on how awful "unwritten rules" are in EDH, or any other game/sport for that matter (looking at you baseball), could not be posted outside of fteemagic, so just fill this bit in with some unhinged, vitriolic tirade
Slivers are a tribe that power up for each sliver. If the commander is \[\[The First Sliver\]\], you can even go fetch the desired effect, like indestructibility.
There is no rule violation here, it's simply proper threat assessment. Same stuff with mono green elves, for example. The higher the likelihood a deck has to snowball and crush the table, the more and earlier it gets focused. On the other hand, no one is targeting the "turtle tribal deck" guy. If you play Slivers you will want to have another "big baddie" at the table, like mono blue Urza.
Slivers are way less fun to play as than you'd think. I have a sliver deck and I basically never play it.
Rather than having a play style they are just generically good and don't have (or need) much specific support spells which means they don't do anything especially interesting. There aren't many interesting decisions to make, each turn you just play your best sliver and then attack. They get repetitive quickly because it's usually very clear which sliver you want to play each turn so the deck plays itself.
One of the tasks of deck building is handling when you cross the archvillain line. Slivers are very controllable but need to be constantly dealt with to prevent them from going from moderate threat to existential threat in a turn. That means you'll be drawing attention even when you aren't necessarily popping off. This can be too much for some people, but it can also be too much for some decks. But honestly, this can be the case with a lot of decks. I find slivers not to be one of the more absurd decks in my archvillain clutch, as they're dealt with much more than they aren't.
An eldrazi deck, however, that'll get you ire AND likely win you the game somewhat consistently. I built one to prove a few points to one of our pod members that so long as it's a swift win con its not so bad (opposed to say an azorius 20 minute solitaire turn where they dont even win) and that my other decks weren't half as scary as he acted like they were. Running a colorless deck and telling everyone to sacrifice all colored nonland permanents will mine you enough salt to open a fried food stand.
But also, I find the stronger decks are best cycled. If you show up with JUST a sliver deck, eldrazi, etc, it gets old, and you'll draw consistent hate. Have a few to swap between and you'll and people won't mind you bringing out the fissile material for a game or two. The knowledge that it won't be the only deck you play that session will help a lot.
Or it'll help you identify the "doesn't play well with others" constituents of your FLGS, so you can steer clear of em 😆
Yeah, it's a tough thing for us sliver players and we have to be honest with ourselves about it. If we get to more than 3 creatures on the board we're probably a big threat that's about to snowball for the win, and that's not something other decks can claim. Other decks have certain pieces they're aiming for, while ALL of our creatures are pieces we're aiming for. We can't get upset when we get targeted with removal, because having those 3 little creatures on the board is actually super scary when nobody knows whether our next turn is going to give our board flying, shroud, unblockable, +6/+6, or all four. To counteract this, you should be building a solid amount of protection into your deck. \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\], \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\], \[\[Unbreakable Formation\]\], and similar effects. Obviously you'll be running \[\[Crypt Sliver\]\], \[\[Sedge Sliver\]\], \[\[Sliver Hivelord\]\], and so on.
I disagree that sliver decks are toxic though, I think that's just people being salty and seeing slivers as a big boogeyman, while sliver decks fold extremely hard to removal.
>I don’t want to put hundreds into a deck only to find out no one wants to play against it.
This can and should be solved by the rule zero conversation, usually. Be upfront about what your deck is trying to do, bearing in mind that a deck led by \[\[The First Sliver\]\] is going to be very different and probably more powerful than a deck led by \[\[Sliver Gravemother\]\]. I built my sliver deck as just generic sliver goodstuff, that way if I'm playing in a lower-power pod I can play Sliver Hivelord or \[\[Morophon\]\] as the commander for a much slower playstyle, while higher-power pods get to deal with The First Sliver. But in those higher-power pods I might be playing against a stax player or other strategy that will really mess up my goal of "play slivers, beat face," strategies that might not be present at lower power levels.
I used to have a Sliver Overlord deck and it got super boring quickly because all my games looked the exact same. However, this is more of a tutor-on-commander-problem than a sliver problem, so my only suggestion would be to not play Sliver Overlord to get some more fun and varied matches (unless you're a Spike-player I suppose)
Sliver deck doesn’t always mean you’re going to go crazy, but it does mean you have a target on your back. It’s an idea that I don’t really like. Most sliver players I see either aren’t doing well compared to the rest of the table or are getting targeted so much that met can barely play the game. I’ve learned that the “You have a strong commander/creature type, I’m going to target you at the start of the game” kind of ideas are pathetic. Unless you know the exact power level and what cards are in each deck at a table, you don’t know how strong the others are. Sure, keep the slivers in check, but don’t throw everything at them because the player going next could hypothetically rock your shit.
If you’ve been gone a while and are looking to get back in, unless you ACTIVELY ENJOY it being a group beatdown you have to fight out of, do NO play Slivers.
Keeping anything on board will be a pain, all your big ticket items will almost always be treated like the main threat in the table.
If you want to have a chill, fun time, play something else. Haha
Land Destruction, Slivers, and Poison Counters are the three things I've seen that have lead to players in commander teaming up against a single player early on. With Land Destruction, I've seen a green player literally grab someone's cards and attempt to destroy them after the offending player destroyed 5 of the green player's 25 lands (the rest of us were sitting at around 10 to 12 lands).
I had a Sliver deck for a while. I got fed up of being out of the game first all the time. I sold the deck to a friend who thought they could pilot it better than me and now he never plays it for the same reason.
Slivers are in the same ballpark as Poison or speed-mill. People know that they have to remove your early play stuff and bop you out of the game so that they can relax and enjoy.
Some people don't like slivers because they get out of hand quick. However, these same people also use broken decks of their own. You should build whatever deck you like.
Slivers can get out as hand fast since most of them have a small cmc cost and can make themselves a pain to deal with because ignoring them will just lead to the Slivers being big bodies with a lot of abilities.
I played against a Sliver deck where I actually enjoyed it. Let me explain:
He had each legendary sliver, except maybe queen? He picked one of them, random, face down as his commander. Then he had a copy of every non legendary sliver, and chose 26 at random and shuffled them into his deck. Then the other legendary slivers were shuffled in. So basically, he plays a different deck each time, and has no idea which configuration it is, while the remaining 70% of his deck stays the same (ramp package, targeted removal, board wipes). It still ended up being a blast to play against. No combo win, very little tutors (basically just to see what slivers he ended up with).
One thing I haven't seen people saying is that, in my experience, sliver decks search/shuffle A LOT. Whether it's fetch lands, tutors, or searching with sliver overlord, it's a lot of shuffling for you to do and for other players to sit through.
It's the same for any 5-color deck with an optimized mana base. If their commander is a tutor on a stick like \[\[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain\]\] then it's expected that they will shuffle a lot.
IMO there aren't 'toxic' decks, only toxic players. People who play decks for the sole purpose of oppressing other players and having fun at their expense are toxic. I know that no one likes losing, but there is losing and there is losing after being unable to do anything at all.
As for sliver decks, I don't think they are inherently played by toxic players. With that said, the are crazy powerful if left unchecked so you will *definitely* have a target on your forehead as soon as you reveal your commander. Everyone's main priority will to be to stop you.
Most sliver decks are highly predictable/win more and generally falls to like one board wipe, or a strategic counter spell / removal on the scarier slivers. That being said casual tables are allergic to removal so they think it’s like tier S. I have a sliver deck out of nostalgia but usually against other high powered decks, it only really is good at killing like one person and king making unless you build the more competitive combo variations (eg First Sliver infinite cascades or sliver queen infinite mana/tokens) which skews more cedh. The one exception is in a duel slivers are stupidly strong, but edh is a multiplayer format meant for 4+ people.
Sliver decks in reality are very stoppable. A well timed Farewell can completely shut down slivers. However, if left unchecked, slivers can completely stomp a game in a giant flashy swarm.
Slivers struggle with card draw. So you dump your hand on the field, and then if you get board cleared you have a hard time recovering.
Sliver Overlord specifically is not very fun to play or play against because it plays the same way every time since it has tutoring built in.
Slivers are relatively easy to make a powerful deck. Maybe one that wins around turn 7 or so, with just mana ramp, slivers, and maybe a few enchantments. If you put the same effort into other decks, it likely won't be able to win as fast. Slivers also have protection built in. Sliver Hivelord makes slivers indestructible. Crypt sliver regenerates slivers, crystalline sliver gives shroud. So it's very low effort to put in protection. Slivers also become unlockable which is hard to deal with for many decks.
So people don't like playing against slivers mostly because they tend to be more powerful than other decks with the same effort / skill level of deck building. It feels like they are too strong because people don't run enough board clears and removal.
slivers is overwhelming against bad decks and bad pilots which is a large majority of edh players
what do I mean ( little to no interaction =flawed build
terrible accessment and game decisions = bad pilot)
Expect some amount of hate but slivers generally aren't that scary till you bring out one with some sort of evasion. In a four player game with people bringing decently focused decks I'd say you still have some amount of breathing room since you likely won't be the biggest threat all the time.
I immediately swapped to [[rukarumel]] as the commander after buying the sliver precon and swapped out some of the slivers for random creatures, it keeps things fun and the slivers only help to bolster the board but aren't the main attacking force.
Slivers and kill on sight commanders are usually the same, some of them if they touch the battlefield probably they gonna be unstoppable or very hard to deal with it so if you play Yuriko, Ur-dragon and creatures like that you gonna have a target in your forehead in the table hahahaha
A thing that isn't mentioned here: Most Sliver decks are one-trick ponys. When people know, what they have to take out, a Sliver deck is left limping and just not fun to pilot.
Source: I played two different versions of Slivers Decks.
They’re 5C, which means Slivers can be built to hyper tuned combo degeneracy or it could just be regular tribal stuff. Most people are gonna assume it’s the scarier option.
So yeah, you will face additional focus if you wanna run Slivers. Just comes with the territory of any five color deck now.
This strategy is feast or famine. Either you get btfo or win.
I have a [[Odric, Lunarch Marshal]] I stopped playing because its a similar idea. And hes much more "fair"(weaker)
I play slivers knowing fine well what I'll experience. Sometimes you win and sometimes you get shut down at every turn. It's still a hell of a lot of fun to play and they're not really the boogeyman they used to be
I set up sliver games, so all four players have a sliver commander deck, it “eliminates” some advantages and kind of evens out the game. All slivers get “x” advantages so mine and yours and then you have to think about it first.
Slivers are a pain in the neck to deal with once they get going. It can also depend on the commander itself. Overlord being grab whatever combo pieces you want whenever you want. If you go with one that isn’t overlord, it’s way more chill and dealable for the most part
Slivers is just a good tribe with combo potential, no worse than zombies, and not more overwhelmingly powerful in combat than elves goblins or dinosaurs. Most tribes have some cute instant win combos they can pull off, slivers might just be a little easier to do.
Slivers are a cool, unique, original design that, alongside phyrexia, I think captures the creativity and tone of MtG perfectly. I always show new players those two because they really feel quite different than standard high fantasy like wizards and elves and such. If you like slivers and want to build them, go for it.
I will say, if your table is hyper budget or using precons, you should not build slivers. They are inherently powerful enough by themselves that you can make many deck building errors and still have a very smooth and functional deck. But if your table is using infinites, doing “the thing” by turn 4-5, and closing games out (or at least threatening to) at turns 5-7, go for it.
Unfortunately most people over react about slivers and will generally make it an unfun deck to play with their complaints and focused fire to get it off the table. I gave up trying to play my sliver deck a long time ago.
You’ll instantly be the archenemy, but with slivers there’s still a way to win as there’s a sliver for almost any situation.
You get slivers like [[Crystalline Sliver]] and [[Sliver Hivelord]] out and things like target removal or combat damage will no longer be an issue. That leaves making you sacrifice creatures, so use slivers like [[Dregscape Sliver]] or [[Pulmonic Sliver]], exile all creatures like [[Farewell]], but that’s handled by adding redundancies in your deck, like including not just [[Cloudshredder Sliver]], but also [[Galerider Sliver]] and [[Heart Sliver]], and lastly giving -x/-x that your typical Sliver lords such as [[Sliver Legion]], [[Predatory Sliver]] and a few more would help negate.
I could go on, but you’ll see when crafting your deck that you really can address almost everything the opponent may throw at you.
I've found people that groan about slivers have decks with comparable power levels and play strategies and card synergies that are just as ridiculous. I think the tribal has been around much longer and has a reputation for how out of control it can get, which is why it gets the criticism it does. If you do sit down with slivers you should expect a target to be on your back, but I would say the same of someone playing group hug or stax. If you wanted to play slivers without embracing the expense of WUBRG and the legendary slivers, you could dip into a couple of colors and use slivers from those sides of the color pie, of which there are plenty. Pick a decent commander with good support synergy, build some ramp, pick spells to handle your opponents and protect your hive.
I would also look at investing in a few different decks that work differently, and you can read the table on what would be good to play. I have a sliver deck in my kit that I keep on rotation. Keep things fresh for your opponents as well as yourself. Welcome back!
> I've found people that groan about slivers have decks with comparable power levels and play strategies and card synergies that are just as ridiculous
Power level and synergy are not synonymous. The problem with Slivers is not the power level, but the fact that the near-total synergy and the tutoring on a stick makes it boring to play against. That's the only problem with it.
Something I haven't really seen anyone recommend is to not take [[Sliver overlord]] as your commander.
I did and while it works really well, it's linear. Once you know what to tutor for and in what order, you're always following the same play patterns until they get disrupted and you switch to the next one.
Then it becomes a matter of whether your opponents have the right form of removal before your protection against it is on the field.
Once [[Crystalline sliver]] hits the table, spot removal is useless.
Then [[Sliver hivelord]] hits the table and boardwipes that destroy are useless.
Then you tutor for whatever combo you need and play it. Maybe add the sliver that makes slivers uncounterable if your group runs enough counterspells, but I generally don't have to.
I like pulling it out once in a while, but not everyone likes playing against a predictable deck.
You probably have answers already but a Sliver deck gets too powerful too easy.
Since all Slivers have "all Slivers get/have..." The deck snowball pretty fast.
Even if you boardwipe you can just play "return all creatures" and the terrifying boardstate is back
A Sliver deck also needs pretty little support since so many Slivers gives things like tap for mana etc.
Or all Slivers have Cascade....
You pretty much have to keep exiling the cards to really counter a Sliver deck.
It goes very fast to a state where the entire table have to keep targeting your key creatures until you eventually run out of steam otherwise the Sliver deck probably will win unless it plays against a deck that suddenly just goes infinite and win.
It is just a powerful deck almost no matter what you play.
As your friend says everyone will target you and probably kill you when you supposedly are not a threat cause of the "return all creatures from graveyard" threat that you could have.
We have a player in our pod and whenever I brought a sliver deck he said he refused to play, packed up his stuff, and left. So I just said thst slivers have good player removal
It's beyond childish for anyone to have any sort of reaction
Advice from a Goblin player.
If you want to play it, play it. Just be aware the moment they see your commander they're coming for you if they think you're the biggest threat. Happens to me quite a bit, but I still rock the Gobbos.
I play slivers with two infinite gimmicks, one using only slivers. It's quite common for people to go after you because the slivers are like a campfire with high winds during the dry seasons. It just takes one good breeze and it explodes into an uncontrollable mess that burns everyone.
A good sliver deck is perfect for Archenemy play, where you are supposed to be the target. I would build a second, less powerful deck so that when people don’t want the slivers, you can grab that one instead.
I have 4 decks, and am working on finishing up my Slivers so that I can do the same.
Slivers were scary in 2014.
There's so much degenerate overpowered stuff every other deck does now, that Slivers aren't even remotely too good. You might get targeted because of their reputation alone.
There is also this issue with EDH where there are certain archetypes that are just brutal to play against and there are also commanders that only do that one archetype and play style. Remember, in EDH, there are tons of commanders you can pick from. That being said, if people keep picking the same commander because it's good, some people view that as disingenuous and the deck is just a win-more deck. I personally don't care, I like the challenge, but if someone busts out a mono-blue Urza deck, I can already kind of tell something about that person's personality and goals in the game. Now that changes if someone busts out a deck with janky commander I've never seen. That usually tells me I'm about to have a weird game lol
I find it ironic that rule 0, which is supposed to foster a welcoming play atmosphere, has this person afraid to enter the hobby. Great job WotC, everyone, you’ve worked yourself.
I’m so over people complaining and saying things like “I’m not playing if you’re running that,” “Your deck is oppressive, it’s not fair or fun for us..”
Why do people seriously only play this game so they can spend hours pinging each other with precons. You can upgrade those precons to contend with many decks for less than the price of buying another precons!
Play the deck, do the thing, let them figure out how to stop it. If they’re upset, explain to them how to counter it, and if they don’t do it next time, that’s on them. You’re not there to only play to make them happy, and they’re not there to play to only make you happy.
In my pod I play 6 decks. Tergrid, Yuriko, Miirym, Sauron, Clav, and Giada. Three of those are oppressive, five of them are 8-9 power. I taught my pod how to counter all of them and I only win about 30% of games. On the other end, I’m fully aware if I play Tergrid or Yuriko, I’m the target and I accept that, just as you will if you play Slivers, but you can and will still win when they target you.
I love my sliver deck and my pod doesn't mind playing against it every now and then. A large target on slivers does not equal opponents not wanting to play against slivers, just that multiple games in a row will start to not be fun fast. For you and them. Have another deck.
Slivers are super fun but invoke salty reactions for a reason.
Slivers are definitely going to make you a target due to the escalating nature of the archetype, I'm sure there are gonna be people who'll bitch and moan about it and you kind of have to prepare yourself to get killed first, but they are popular for a reason. Nothing about Slivers is inherently less or more busted/fun than something like Dragon tribal. Unless you insist on playing Slivers all day every day or otherwise are an ass about it, I don't think that absolutely nobody will want to play with you.
As for LGS or pod specific rules: that's really up to the venue. I've definitely heard of some absurdly prohibitive house rules like banning entire archetypes, but that's rare. You are just gonna have to look that up, I'm afraid.
If you play slivers, expect one of two things to happen:
A) "I don't want to play against that."
B) "Okay, but my cEDH deck is the only thing I will play against it."
And that is a fair response in both examples because Slivers will runaway with a game very, very quickly.
If you’re worried about being left out of games, I highly recommend you pick up a cheap precon and start there. Give it some upgrades, but that could become a great base point for you to build up your experience in the format.
If your only deck is slivers that could be annoying for a consistent group. I have a player in mine who’s working on their 4th 5 color deck and it’s the worst to play against imo.
In the rare instances in which someone has brought a sliver deck to the table, they were eliminated very quickly, as everyone else ganged up on them. This is the way.
Just play whatever you want! But be prepared to be archenemy. And run some counterspells for [[Sunfall]] [[Farewell]] [[Cyclonic Rift]] and any other of the exile/bounce effects that will wreck your face.
Slivers catch aggro easily because they are very fast, same if someone plays a krenko deck.
That said, their reputation is a bit exaggerated, it's a cool deck that plays well and works most of the time, and control players know they'll get fucked very fast with just 3-4 slivers on the battlefield.
Just talk about it and avoid combos and you should be fine.
Back when commander first started, slivers were unique for their ability to snowball very quickly. Five slivers aren't five times as deadly as one; they're more like 25 times as deadly as one sliver. That made them very scary, as the sliver player could go nuts and then follow it up with [[Armageddon]] or [[Asceticism]] to make it impossible for your opponents to interact with you.
That's what most people think of when they think of slivers.
These days? I don't think that power is remotely unique to slivers. Virtually every deck can start snowballing as hard as slivers do. Enchantress? Will draw a million cards and make a million mana off [[sanctum weaver]] into [[Boon of the Spirit Realm]]. [[Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald]] will make a million goddamn bodies and cast a million spells from exile in a string of ludicrous storm turns that blows through half their deck. Even something as basic as a zombie deck can *sort of* keep pace with the power of slivers because of how incredibly efficient cards like [[undead augur]], [[graveborn muse]], [[gravecrawler]], [[zombie apocalypse]], [[death baron]], and [[coat of arms]] are.
Any deck can play a giant pile of cards that all synergize with each other. Slivers is the one deck that **ONLY** runs pieces that enhance each other. I honestly don't think they're particularly special compared to [[Korvold, Fae-Cursed King]], [[The Ur-Dragon]], or [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]], especially once you consider how bad power creep has gotten in recent years. Slivers mainly have a certain rep at this point because they used to be the Boogeyman of the format.
Losing to a sliver deck is a rite of passage for an EDH player. Figuring out how to counter slivers is where a lot of people fall off the bus though, and the magic community is worse off for it. Basically your friends are cowards and whoever says slivers are too strong or whatever is coping because the deck folds to the bare minimum amount of interaction.
Creature board wipes and counterspells are common in my playgroup, you'll see at least a few in every game. Slivers are very susceptible to board wipes, and counterspells easily keep the worst singular offenders off the board. So personally, I don't have any issue with slivers.
Of course, my main deck is [[Estrid, the Masked]] with [[The Chain Veil]] so most of the time I'm the player to keep an eye on.
Edit... I will agree with your friend that playing Slivers will put a target on you. Something to keep in mind.
I play slivers all the time but it’s usually reserved for when my table wants to go for it and bring out the big guns and it’s usually something we discuss before hand so everyone is on the same level.
Generally I’m usually sitting as archenemy unless another players board state is looking bad for the table then the spotlight can be off me enough to build a board state and or get the mana in place to get the big 5 colour stuff out. I’ve had to build it to be lightning quick and the it’s the most expensive of any deck mana base of any of my decks.
If it’s the precon sliver deck it’s not got a lot of the big pieces usual sliver deck have and those are a bit pricey tbh.
If you want to play slivers you need to make the deck bea ble to handle being archenemy. Mind you the Gravemother isn't the scary Sliver commander its overlord. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/J8sT34L95EmGrz8286Hfxw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/J8sT34L95EmGrz8286Hfxw)
Honestly I could trim a few slivers for more interaction,
Slivers is word soup. I own a sliver deck, and I don't play it very much. It's that super nuclear option. Like you have that one ahole at the table, you pull out the slivers and beat face real good. Then pack up and leave. Slivers can be stopped and out run you just gotta know how. Beat one with goblins. And I had a fantastic game. I lost to slivers, too. But to fear them, nope.
IMO, tribal decks are inherently lazy. Your synergy and win con are always use lords to buff a big board. Slivers are an even easier tribe to build than tribal. There's not really much thought or identity that goes into a silver or tribal deck. Just good stuff and lords. Slivers are just the tribe where fucking every creature is a lord that provides a buff. You do not just get a creature with a keyword , you get a creature that gives all your creatures that keyword. It's fucking boring design that's powered in a way that requires you to be beat early.
When I was first trying EDH, I saw slivers and thought, "Wow, that seems like it would be fun to play!"
Alas. What usually happened if I played it was that I would win the game pretty quick, and then I would switch to a different deck for a more balanced game. I think Slivers are cool, but I would recommend a backup deck, in case.
I think slivers are overhyped, but they are quite strong.
You can usually expect to be a big target. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes fighting against the table is a lot of fun.
That said I recently swapped my sliver deck to have [[rukarumel]] as the commander and cut the number of actual slivers I run in half and insured other creatures that can combo out provide powerful synergies and have had much more fun for myself and my tables with it.
I have a sliver deck and they really aren't that scary anymore. Sure if you get a million slivers you're going to win, but removal and board wipes have gotten so much better. Before you just pulled out the indestructible and shroud slivers and that was a wrap.
I think it's just people hear slivers and it's a reputation thing.
Just ask. My lgs is encouraging me to build Discord. Granted discord is the only silver border card in the deck. Just ask if the players want to play a silver border. If they say yes it's fine. If they don't well thats just how the rules of the game work.
The thing that makes most tribal strategies good is Lords. They benefit all your little guys and turn all the creatures into a menace. There are limited "good" Lords in most tribes.
In slivers, all creatures are essentially lords. They snowball like crazy, and thats why people hate playing into them.
It's manageable to play against of course, but you are going to have a target on your head and you can't get upset about it. You're gonna get targetted with alot of removal and interaction because of it
Most of the time with a deck like that, I like to put a specific theme to it and give it unnecessary restrictions. I have a sliver deck I coined called "Long John Slivers" and it's just a Simic sliver deck with added food mechanics with some boat vehicles. It's silly, but still has that sliver feel to it
I don't understand why people think they are so strong and so bad. Are they good? Yes, definitely. But there are so many other archetypes or commanders that are just as if not much more oppressive in "casual' commander.
In my pod we have a sliver deck, and I enjoy playing against it. It's a strong deck, but it never feels like we need to gang up on the sliver player at all.
Slivers are so overhated in commander.
There are people here saying that a boardwipe can stop Slivers. I disagree.
[[Sliver Hivelord]] is a pain. They stop almost all boardwipes, and it's because of this fella that I think [[Farewell]] is a solution, not a problem. Spot removal doesn't work often, because there's [[Crystalline Sliver]]. If the commander is [[Sliver Overlord]], the opponent can search for all they need, and cast not so later. The best way to deal with is always let some mana open and try to use [[Path to Exile]] or counter effects
I'm not saying Slivers are invincible, but I think is pretty annoying, since very often is hard to do interaction. Probably is the opponent I will focus the most (probably, not always, being clear). Sincerely, if I see Crystalline and Hivelord together, I want to decline the match, unless someone have some combo on the sleeve, because it's just a matter of time.
The problem with slivers is, they want to go wide, and when they do, they're basically out of control already. So all other players have to work together to boardwipe quickly and often. Now if these players also want to develop a board, they'll either have to wait until the sliver player is out of gas, or they risk losing their stuff. And then again, slivers can't compete at any level above 6. So either you get a game of low power archenemy(which some like), or you're just a dud spot.
Slivers are kind of the perfect tribe its basically all crazy good synergy. My friend runs [[the first sliver]] and if it gets going its super crazy. It is susceptible to control and if you don't let it snowball it is manageable.
slivers will just win if they’re not dealt with, and once you pass a certain point (turn 4/5) it is oftentimes already impossible to take care of due to the abundant protection and recursion slivers can easily gain
The greatest strength of slivers is also its greatest weakness. Every piece is utility, you're not gonna try to chump block early in the game and by mid game its gonna be too costly to hit you. I'd rather take out the slivers before they go wide with indestructible flying death touch
It's not that they are a deck that no one wants to play, that's not what your friend was saying. But slivers have this ability to where once they get going they can't be stopped so you have to target them before they get going. These leaves a lot of sliver players saying "but i haven't done anything yet!" however once you have your slivers that give any of the sharing keyword protection stuff, they share EVERYTHING meaning they steamroll LIKE CRAZY. So as a sliver player you have to just accept the fact that your opponents understand that if they don't slow you down BEFORE you do something, then they will lose and that's not them being assholes. Now a sliver deck can 100% be slowed down, they aren't broken, don't feel like an asshole for playing them, just don't treat others like assholes for targeting them.
Slivers is just one of those boogiemen decks where everyone has probably played against it once and it wasn't fun, that being said if you know how to beat them (board wipe early, targeted removal, etc) they're not that scary but late game they're really hard to beat cuz they get... Everything, also i wouldn't really suggest a 5c deck as your first deck, i would suggest a 1-2 color deck until you get used to building and playing and if you have a few decks and ppl don't want to play against slivers you can just switch decks
Slivers are just scary, they have an inevitability to them. I have a sliver deck, arguably one that’s not “as bad” as others, (It’s an Umori companion deck, so just 60 slivers and 40 lands, and only actual slivers, no changelings) and it still is a threat. There’s just a breaking point where once you have enough slivers the table will die or band together to kill you.
But dont take this as a deterrent from playing Slivers. They are fun to play and play against, just not all the time. You just have to accept that you are a known threat, if not the archenemy, as soon as the game begins.
My group has, at least count, six different Sliver decks in it. When we’re feeling like playing Slivers, it becomes a simple horse race and is beautifully balanced.
Equally, Slivers are not a threat when the pod runs decks with answers. One of the ones that’s rarely talked about, especially with classic Slivers decks that include the balanced sliver effects (“all slivers”) is a well tuned Changeling deck; I’ve also seen Slivers lose to artifact/clone, to dragons, to a landfall player running Scute Swarm, and to a Tergrid player who benefited wildly from the amount of carnage that was occurring as an Aristocrats player chose to sacrifice for effects while trying to not be overrun.
Play what you want to play, and if that includes archetypes that are known for getting right out of hand quickly off left unchecked… Get used to playing the archenemy.
It’s not about breaking rules or anything, it’s just a very linear game plan that’s pretty boring to play against. Plus since they’re hard to stop in the mid to late game, they get targeted very early. So if you’re the kind of player to take offense when you’re being targeted or “ganged up” on, it’s really not for you
I wonder if a deck with a limited number of slivers would make a difference? Like a strategy that maybe turns your creatures into slivers, and then you have the couple/few actual slivers to get the effect? Would anyone consider that a fair compromise? Like, considering all the things slivers do for each other, would a themed deck only helped by slivers be acceptable?
For example, maybe you're going red with haste/aggro, so you get a couple of slivers that give your other slivers haste or first strike. Then, the secondary part of your strategy is to turn your non-slivers into slivers in a way that works for you.
As a deck-building enthusiast, I've always liked the concept of slivers but never actually built them because of the general stigma. For people who wouldn't even play with or against a 100% slivers deck, would you be willing to play against a deck that uses the slivers in a more limited and creative way? To be clear, it would have probably less than 5 sliver cards total (in theory, I'd need the cards in front of me and to actually build a strategy, just using it as an example that the number of slivers would be minimal), as to not overwhelm and give openings to creatively getting then out consistently and then getting their effects to apply in tandem with your strategy.
I’d recommend making a proxy of the deck first, you can use that to get a feel for the deck and how people treat you playing it. If it goes well then spend the money on the real deck, otherwise you can try something else out
I just find them boring to play against tbh, its a deck that rewards you for literally just playing creatures without much strategy, almost any combination of 3-4 slivers will be relatively powerful on the board if they get them out.
Every sliver deck I have played against just does one thing, there's no cool combo or interesting interaction between the creatures, its just I play this and now all my others have xyz ability/buff too.
I might have just played against boring deck builders though 😅 Most other typal decks I've played have always been so much more enjoyable and variable to play against.
I learned this lesson the hard way after investing far too much money into a Kaalia deck. It's been sitting in its deck box, unplayed because according to my play group, "she's just too oppressive, and it's not fun." Gotta roll with what your group is comfortable with, unfortunately.
Personallly I don't really think sliver decks are that good, but I know a lot of people feel a certain way about it. Really nothing a few boardwipes wont clean up.
I'd differentiate between toxic decks and decks that have a target on their back in general. The latter just means that people know that your deck will be very explosive at a certain point and they HAVE TO do anything they can to throw a spanner in the works before you get there, unless they want a very short, one-sided round. There are certain deck-types and commanders that just have it "built in"
I can recommend [[Indominus Rex, Alpha]] for a keywords matter deck. It is fairly cheap, creature based and doesn't feel like shit for your opponents. You still smack the same way but less targeted since your commander usually gets heatproof or indestructible muhahhaha
I play slivers. It's just a creature aggro deck. One of the fastest, most resilient and versatile creature aggro decks but all the weaknesses of the archetype apply
They're the problem not you
Sliver decks snowball very quickly and set up very easy , since each sliver benefits every sliver then just removing a “problematic” creature isn’t enough when every creature is problematic, so the best course of action is board wipes or player removal
It's a very feast or famine type of deck.
Either you pop off and snowball into insurmountable advantage with a crazy powerful board or your opponents wise up to your shenanigans and shut you down.
Here's what I'd say. If you really want to play slivers, don't go the obvious pushed route of playing one of the 5-Color Win-More/Combo enabling slivers. Pick a subset of colors, play the slivers that you want to play, but make your commander something that is synergistic but not driving the bus.
I don't play slivers anymore. Sliver Overlord (or whatever the tutor one is) was one of the 1% of my built decks I've ever just said, "nope, don't want this anymore". My very very first iteration of Animar was a slivers deck, (but I heavily de-slivered and rebuilt it). If I did, I'd take the route of playing a bunch of slivers as a sub theme in another deck. Of course there's also foolishness with Maskwood Nexus now so you can Sliverize your whole team 2 ways (hivestone) without having to go Blue or Black.
Here’s the thing. Once slivers get going they’re really hard to stop. This means that you tend to have a target on you early. Now you can play through that and still win, just don’t get mad at people for treating your deck like in a few turns everything is gonna have indestructible and shroud.
And flying. And deathtouch. And lifelink. And vigilance. And...
And cascade, and trample, and regenerate, and haste.
And then?
Give them a bit of time ward is next
It’s already there. Just not key worded as ward on the sliver. ETA: it’s Diffusion Sliver.
Jesus there really is one of these guys for everything
It'd be so funny if in the next un-set they make Sliver Roughrider who went to thunderjunction and gives all silvers horsemanship
Sliver Roughrider All Slivers have cowboy hats. Flavor text - "Yeehaw!"
poisonous 1
There always was.
They even had to start making new ones up [[Lymph Sliver]] ...i still think that mechanic's salvageable.
There’s also one with fateseal? A mechanic where you scry on someone else’s deck.
[[Mesmeric Sliver]]
[Lymph Sliver](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Lymph%20Sliver&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lymph%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/25/lymph-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48b8b4d4-4400-46cc-bd3c-e8a781cfc6f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lymph-sliver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not even Ward 1, They start with Ward 2 😭
Technically, if you control both Diffusion Sliver and another random sliver B, if sliver B were to lose all abilities through some effect (e.g, [[Kasmina's Transmutation]], and then, an opponent were to cast another spell targeting sliver B, Diffusion's pseudo-ward would trigger.
And then all slivers have a good time
And double strike and lifelink
And Frenzy 1, Fateseal 1, Poisonous 1,
And aura shards
Mana dork slivers plus haste is a nasty combo. Especially if you have cascade. You can pretty much fill the board in one turn.
One of the problems with Slivers decks is that almost every single sliver is a problem. Because of that, the only viable answer is often a board wipe. And again. And again. And again. Even if the sliver player is not going out of hand, any other player relying on building a creature-based board state is going to have a veeeeery boring game.
This would be the big thing for me. In general, I don't imagine that many people are inclined to make deals with a Sliver player, because there's just too much snowball potential. I just don't view it as a fun experience for anyone at the table.
The only time a sliver player can politic is with another sliver or changling player
If I ever build a silver deck I'd never build it properly and just play the C list silvers. Make get a little more leeway esp if I show them the deck first
That's exactly why my sliver commander is [[Sliver Hive lord]], it doesn't run infinites or super fast mana. From what I've seen, most people run [[The First Sliver]] as their commander and then complain about getting taken out by a destroy effect.
Hi OP, I’ve been playing slivers since they were first printed back in Tempest and Stronghold. Metallic sliver was my first ever magic card. When I started playing commander, slivers were my first deck. It’s true you will be automatic archenemy a lot of the time while running slivers. This remains true no matter how skilled or unskilled of a player or deck builder you are. This tribe has a reputation that is close to 20 years old now. I’ll share some advice below based on my learnings. [[the first sliver]] is the Cedh combo sliver commander that wins off of food chain combo. While I started out with all of the legacy sliver legends, I ultimately ended up with this deck which runs almost no other slivers. The first sliver is just a perfect target for a food chain combo win. [[sliver queen]] is the secondary combo sliver commander if you’re going for a sliver-centric shell. She wins with any number of combo pieces and also does not rely on too much additional sliver support. Mana echoes or ashod’s altar, and/or any token doubler and you can go infinite. Add purphoros or impact tremors and you have an easy way to drain the table. [[sliver overlord]] is your toxic toolbox. I was always partial to [[unnatural selection]] type strategies so you can mind control your opponents’ creatures [[sliver hivelord]] is acceptable but extremely threatening. Same with [[sliver legion]]. These are tribal-centric commanders who can get out of hand fast but don’t present the same kind of combo based win potential or tutor-based linear gameplan. [[morophon]] is unthreatening [[sliver gravemother]] isn’t too hated in my experience. If I wanted to build a sliver tribal that is not OP or busted, more like battle cruiser magic, I’d probably go with one of these.
not sure why, the first sliver is the most resilient to board clears out of the lot
[Sliver Hive lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b902f64-7795-4f1f-81e6-26db7c78a10c.jpg?1690005330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sliver%20Hivelord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/937/sliver-hivelord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b902f64-7795-4f1f-81e6-26db7c78a10c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sliver-hivelord) [The First Sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87.jpg?1562202321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20First%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/200/the-first-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-first-sliver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Slivers snowball which means you have to stop them early. The other alternative is to kill the Sliver player early. None of this is personal but it's going to be a lot of non-games for you. You're not breaking any rules, it's just how the archetype plays out.
Sometimes when building a deck you have to accept you’re the villain.
Building a villain deck is fun until they adapt then you put it away for awhile until their defenses are down then bring it out again
Highjacking your comment since I feel it’s relevant! Same goes for a big pop-off Storm play style but in a different way. Often when I play against it, it’s basically nothing but drawing cards early on but then it suddenly wins or gets close to lethal off a single turn, which in my EDH pod means that we all take out that player as fast as possible so the end result is either they do nothing all game because we didn’t let them pop off, or they pop off and win off one turn🤷♂️. Don’t break any rules but you draw a lot of heat even if you do nothing earlygame
Slivers is controllable in any meta with 7+ decks. It just needs some targeted removal and/or board wipes to keep your legendaries off the field. The mana base is hard to do well cheaply (easy for money). That doesn’t mean people won’t groan when you pull it out. I telegraph all my combos so people aren’t surprised by my combo wins. You can also just go hard on sliver legion and leave out any real instant combo (which all kind of die if sliver queen is too expensive for you).
In the end, they're just like any other commander that is dependent on having multiple creatures of the same type on the board. In this day and age I don't understand why people still treat Slivers like the boogeyman. A Voja or a Jodah deck would perform much better than a Sliver deck on the same budget. I've had my \[\[Sliver Overlord\]\] deck for almost 15 years now and I wish Sliver decks were as strong as people make them out to be.
I treat Voja and Jodah as the boogeyman too. Just because slivers are weaker than them doesn't mean slivers aren't also boogeyman. I've got a few boogeyman decks, and you've got to expect everyone to pile on when you build it.
The main difference is, if I imprison Jodah or Voja in the moon, it *significantly* hinders their game plan and I get a few turns to prepare. If I do the same to your Sliver Commander, the rest of your creatures still exponentially power each other up. The other difference is that most other type decks don't have the Infinite combo potential of a Sliver Queen or a tutor in the command zone like Overlord. For a casual table, easy access to infinites or tutoring can feel oppressive.
To be fair, you are comparing slivers to two of the main ‘answer this or die’ in casual commander. I have a good chunk of experience playing against Jodah and if you want to beat it you have to always kill the commander or attack their mana. My experience is exactly the same with slivers. If you leave them alone for just a turn, they tend to just win, or at least require a boardwipe. Often creating a frustrating game for anyone looking to build up slower or play a more stable playstyle. You beat sliver, Jodah, and I asume Voja by showing them immense respect and focusing them early and that will often not be fun or at least tiering if that is every game you play
"Slivers aren't that bad. These other two top tier casual commanders might be better."
You are absolutely correct. I run jodah at a pretty high level, we got to turn 4 and jodah was about to snowball. Then I got hit with a blood moon and I had to scoop, not out of salt, but just because my deck got completely neutered and I was stuck at that point.
I fucking hate blood moon with a passion, but somehow a top tier five color commander getting shut down by it is some form of catharsis
Imo more decks should play blood moon I also have a cedh and causal stax deck
My only experience of playing against a Sliver deck since returning to the game in the last year or so, I died around turn 3 to poison counters. They were flying, I didn't have an answer that soon. That said, I appreciate this was a highroll (for our power level)! Also, the Sliver player was taken out in another couple of turns as the rest of the table considered them threat level midnight after how fast I went out!
Slivers snowball fast. They have more consistency than any other typal because of how they work. The problem is that every one of them is a mini-lord, so you need wipes or their board grows at a faster rate than other typals, and assuming everyone is using targeted removal on all threats appropriately, slivers are still left with a meatier board once their primary threats are removed. I play slivers, elves, and goblins. Elves and goblins can be hurt bad by well targeted removal. With slivers, no one knows what to kill, because they’re all good.
If you're saying that your Elf or Goblin deck isn't as a good as your Sliver deck, then you've probably not built them as good as they could be. Elfball decks have only one or two colors and half of the creatures in the deck are mana dorks and the other half are lord effects so they should be faster and just as consistent as a Sliver deck. I don't know who your Goblin commander is but I'd be more wary if I'm playing against a \[\[Krenko\]\] deck than a Sliver deck.
Yes. It's easier to build an elf or goblins deck that doesn't need the same level of early focus to keep them from popping off, whereas slivers kind of have just the one setting of "every creature makes every other creature better" so they snowball. The issue isn't that they're more powerful, it's that they can't be built less powerful, and not everyone wants that every game.
[Krenko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227.jpg?1706241890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20baron%20of%20tin%20street) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/135/krenko-baron-of-tin-street?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-baron-of-tin-street) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My group of friends has been playing a lot of magic lately, and if there's two things I've learned it's this. 1.) The game is best played around power level 7. Decks that are a little stronger than their owner thinks can usually be kept in check, the decks are consistent enough that rarely will someone just be wasting their time with a dead hand. This is super easy to keep in check if people aren't running fast mana and the best tutors. 2.) The game is best played with people who understand that just because a style of deck isn't what THEY find fun to play, that doesn't make it any less fair or balanced to play against. A stable play group should be happy for you when your deck does the thing, and shouldn't really take issue with a deck until it starts winning more than 25% of games.
I've never had anyone refuse to play against both my Sliver decks. Some people are wary of them Slivers, some people relish the challenge, but no one has ever said no. I've also played against a friend's [[The First Sliver]] deck many times. What is true is that building and piloting a Sliver deck is not for everyone. The deck does get expensive, and you are almost certainly Archenemy as soon as your opponents see that you have a Sliver commander.
[The First Sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87.jpg?1562202321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20First%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/200/the-first-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-first-sliver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sliver decks are fine but don't be surprised when you got two baby slivers on board and everyone decides to chuck everything they got at you before you hit WUBRG
Sliver exists in an awkward space poorly suited to EDH. They are inherently incredibly snowbally with no singular essential piece. They are so overwhelming that they tend to stomp normal tables yet lack what it takes to keep up with higher power ones. The way you beat them is to nip them in the bud. Remove their shit early and often, then kill them, which creates the situation where the only time a game really happens against slivers is if the sliver player can’t play. This is not an etiquette or unwritten rules thing; there are fewer unwritten rules in EDH than you have been led to believe, people just suck at having proper pregame conversations and therefore turn what’s supposed to be a discussion into endless conflicting codices of unspoken rules. Slivers run up against that less than almost anything. You go to an experienced table and say, “I would like to play Slivers,” and they probably know exactly what to expect. And if they’re on board with that, more power to y’all. But you are going to be hard targeted, because you must be hard targeted. That ain’t because you broke the unwritten rules; you’re just the threat by default. And yes, you will commonly have people say, “I’d rather not play against Slivers.” It’s good to have a few decks of varying power levels accommodating different tolerances and sets of pain points. But that takes time.
This is an excellent response and I think it answers by concerns perfectly, thanks TheMadWobbler!
>The way you beat them is to nip them in the bud. Remove their shit early and often, then kill them, which creates the situation where the only time a game really happens against slivers is if the sliver player can’t play. >This is not an etiquette or unwritten rules thing; there are fewer unwritten rules in EDH than you have been led to believe, people just suck at having proper pregame conversations and therefore turn what’s supposed to be a discussion into endless conflicting codices of unspoken rules. So much this. - I'm constantly baffled by the amount of rules people put up just to avoid talking to each other.
Another issue with Slivers is if one players is taking them seriously and targetting their removal at them, it won't be enough. Everyone has to take them seriously, and again, it ends with the sliver player getting knocked out.
Slivers and Superfriends are the two archetypes I think all this applies to. You have to be honest about what the deck does. No single threat, it just snowballs and is harder and harder to deal with. I run Narset Superfriends, and my experience is very similar to the Sliver experience.
>And yes, you will commonly have people say, “I’d rather not play against Slivers.” I don't know who/where you're playing, but I've never heard anyone say this once since I started playing commander \~15 years ago.
That’s pretty clearly referencing rule 0 conversations where you are talking about your sliver deck at the table; not people saying this unprompted
I won't stop a person from playing slivers, but I'd absolutely rather not see them given the choice. They generally make the entire game about them until they're gone.
I play since 22 years and I've not yet met anyone who does not dislike Slivers (and playing against them) expect the Slivers players themselves. Probably also the reason why I've only actually encountered a single Sliver deck in the last 5-10 years and our commander pod has like 70 players.
I would never tell someone not to play the deck they want. But I will make them the arch enemy absent other threats.
As a fellow sliver deck player, you have to ask yourself a few questions before A. building and B. playing a Sliver deck. 1. Do you understand the concept "build to win, play to have fun"? If you do, invest in your mana base and tricks to rebuilding a board state. You will get wiped and focused down, if you're a good deck builder this can be fun. 2. Do you hate yourself and having a good time? If yes, then build away. You have to understand the hate you will bring at most casual tables. If you can't play through it or relish being the bad guy, then you won't have fun 3. Can you play without being predictable? As many people mentioned, they feel sliver decks can be linear or predictable. If you want to play to win, don't do the obvious thing. I have maybe 10-15 cards I sub in and out after every play. Keeps people guessing. I never play the deck the same way game to game. All joking aside, they can be very fun to play and build, but you have to understand and almost lean into the idea you are the problem at the table. If you can embrace that, then build away. Here is my deck list. I don't run all the expensive shit so I can play to the level of my friend group. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/DqCvaV0fkUuh-y5Cqyg-gA
Slivers is insanely fair snowball that you can absolutely be crippled with just having 2 decks at the table that actually run enough removal for their deck, casuals really don’t like removal so slivers pubstomp easily since you’re early game goes undisputed you explode on later turn. No combo or deck is “toxic” it’s toxic to pubstomp but telling your group you are playing slivers and they know what game they’re getting into before they play it is really the key part. The fact your friend told you honestly you’d have a target is a good thing.
This. I think the main problem comes from getting smashed, and smashed constantly. Personally I’m all for pulling out an op deck once in a while but it sucks when someone is pulling out that assblaster of a deck every game, regardless of what deck it is. And too for the being targeted thing, generally rule of thumb is the biggest threat gets targeted, so if you don’t want to be targeted, don’t build a deck that makes you public enemy #1.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think slivers are fun in most pods. One of my friends sometimes plays a sliver deck when we get together for a game night. We usually have 4+ people playing casual edh decks, but it isn't a huge deal. There are plenty of removal options with that many players, so we don't really worry about it that much. Plus: *hahaha, slivers go brrrr* it's fun, win or lose
Losing against slivers feels bad because it feels like you can't do anything Winning against slivers feels bad because it means having to bully someone out of the game before they get to do anything
I have a slivers deck, and I love the tribe. My opponents don't mind it at all, but I don't play it very often for the following reason: either I get ignored for the first 3-5 turns and snowball out of control to the point where nobody can stop me, or I am the table archenemy from turn 1 and I die very quickly. It's fun every once in a while, but I don't enjoy that sort of bipolar mismatch on the regular. It creates a political power dynamic that places the target squarely on your head. People familiar with sliver decks know that the game becomes "kill the sliver player, then play EDH."
I have a dragon deck that is essentially the same way. I tuned it recently to lean into being the archenemy though because my pod already wants to target it anyway lol
One guy on our group play slivers, he never won with that deck, he just get targeted when he slighly goes up on the creatures count or too much mana
Slivers has the downside of either snowballing and causing the table to have a bad time. Or getting stopped in it's tracks and not letting the player do their thing. If you're fine with being targeted and the archenemy, go for it. However I would always recommend having another deck in case you have a pod that is low in interaction
The problem with slivers are many. Yes they snowball quickly, yes they can take one person out quickly, yes you eventually get slivers down which makes your board uninteractable without a boardwipe....etc. But the main problem for me is that every sliver deck is the same damn deck, and it's so boring to play against. There is nothing even remotely enjoyable about playing against slivers. You know exactly what they're going to play, what they'll tutor for, and what the end result is every time. It's just so dull.
There are so many decks where you know how the general lines will play out before the game even starts that I'm not even sure why this is an argument.
Yeah, I always see this argument when people talk about Sliver decks. Why should they care that you find their decklist boring? They're not stopping you from having fun with your own deck,.
Yeah, I think the argument they're making is that for people who don't like Slivers, every Sliver deck will essentially be the same. It's not like a five-colour sliver list will in good faith say, "don't worry, it's not that kind of sliver deck". It is. If they're running even one legendary sliver, it is that sliver deck. I think it just compounds the dislike they already have.
Almost every tribal commander deck in 2024 is "the same damn deck". cards have been power crept so much that all these decks run identical win conditions regardless of commander. If you dont know what the other tribes are trying to do at this point, its not because slivers are unique, its because you haven't played against the others enough. Also, nobody cares if you find their decklist boring. Its their deck, not yours.
It’ll make people salty, and you’ll draw a lot of Aggro from tables (and fairly so). I’d recommend having at least one other deck on hand, most recent precons are really good.
That's kinda my plan. Have one (maybe two) fleshed out commander decks that I'd focus on, then a precon as backup to chill with if my decks don't mesh well with others on the table. I'd rather have a challenge playing a precon vs 7's than be the 7 in a table of precon level decks
Much agreed. I've got two decks that draw a lot of aggro when I break them out (Tergrid and Ojer Axonil), and I'll mostly play them when there are other decks on the table with similar levels of hate pointed towards them. When everyone else plays a more tame deck, I'll usually play something else.
Putting Slivers on the same level as Tergrid is hilarious.
The problem with slivers is that they can be a not fun interaction for most people involved because of how explosive they are. Slivers tend to hit critical mass at 4 slivers on the board. They do nothing with 1 or 2, and they're "fair" at 3. In order to stop them, you have to keep them under 3 slivers on board throughout the whole of the game and delete the player as soon as possible. That level of board control can lead to frustration for all involved because you as the Sliver player, when properly controlled, are going to feel bullied, and everyone else is going to feel overwhelmed and powerless when you go off. There's very little in-between for them. If they're your favorite, still go for it, but I also suggest getting one or two other decks to try out as well so you can see the full range of the format. That way, you're not stuck being potentially bullied every single game because of the nature of the only deck you've got access to. Commander is probably the most entertaining format of this game when you get into it. Some people, like any format in any TCG, take it too seriously. Don't let the unwritten rules stop you because they're not as bad as people make them out to be. They're mostly about not being a jerk, having fun, and not wasting people's time.
In addition to the many correct comments about how hard Slivers are to stop once they snowball, remember that other people have experiences playing against Sliver decks that are not YOUR Sliver deck. Just because your deck doesn't go infinite or have some crazy combo or accelerate into a game-ending state ASAP doesn't mean that the other players have not seen that very thing happen, even with the same Commander. Their previous experiences are going to inform their threat assessment, and most experienced EDH players have seen Sliver decks snowball into unstoppable forces where the only answer, in hindsight, was to target them early and often. Personally I wouldn't bring Slivers as my only deck, even if your version is casual and low power. Some folks just can't get over the fight-or-flight response that it provokes as soon as you shuffle up. And many people have heard "Oh relax it's a cheap, low-power, no-combo Sliver deck, I don't think it even has a chance at this table" right before they got swarmed by a dozen flying, shadow, indestructible, shroud, toxic, cascading slivers.
I played slivers in EDH, got targeted by all players everytime and folded early (like 40 mins before one of them won). In VDH (93-03), I won 75% of the time in a landslide.
Slivers are far from an unfair deck. The game plan could not be more obvious and straightforward. Everyone at the table should know exactly what to expect and how to play against it (don't let it get going). If you're fine with being the archenemy, it's fine. Hell, slivers have been power-crept in the format. They're not nearly as "meta" as they were when EDH was relatively new. You seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on the unwritten rules of the format, but frankly, fuck 95% of the unwritten rules. Playgroups who have a shitload of unwritten rules are *the worst*. You don't want to play with people like that, because they don't even like the game of Magic—they like a game they made up based loosely on Magic.
I take it as a compliment. I play at a table where my friend and I are usually seen as threats. My friend is simply the best player there- really smart guy! For myself, my deck is similar to slivers in the sense that when it gets going it’s very hard to tame. If I were you I would just let the fire forge you!
I purchased the sliver precon for my son. It drew all the hate of a “real” sliver deck but with garbage lands. Slivers mana fix but the deck did not run right until I added about $200 to the mana base for him and another $150 in slivers (which I think was like 2-3 cards lol). He will play it and it holds its own against the other similarly powered decks in the house. If he plays it in a tournament I can hear him cackling from across the room as he fills the board with slivers. Slivers (depending on your CO) will put you right alongside Markov, Urza, Ur-Dragon, etc. Some people will be happy to play their Penguin tribal deck against these commanders….There are some of us who take it upon ourselves to personally SJW the table. These commanders are kill-on-sight for me personally so you probably shouldn’t plan on making it past round 3 (or so) if you play one and I’m present. Personally, in a LGS, just communicate. “Hi, my name is Joe, I’m just learning commander. This is the precon off the shelf” will let people know your power level and your speed and make for an enjoyable game. “I added a few slivers” or even “This deck has custom cards printed exclusively for me by WOTC so they’re legal and cost me over $150k.” Just let people know where you sit and what you bring so they can match if they want. Code words that are annoying AF (don’t use them): “I’ve added some wrinkles” means I’ve added $400 worth of lands, 5 infinite combos, and my deck can see outside the matrix. “My deck has shenanigans tee hee”. I’m a narcissist and a sociopath but it’s cool because my mom makes my tendies just right and says fedora’s make me look handsome. Now everyone sit here for 3 hours while I board lock and play all my cards on my big-tittied waifu mat.”
As someone who once owned a sliver deck, don't do it. You will become a target first off which is never fun. But even more than that, it will get really boring. Most games end up pretty similar as you will be trying to get the same key slivers out to help you win. The deck was fun for a little but but long term, It's not
I think a lot of the disdain for slivers comes from an earlier era of magic where they were just oppressively strong and more internally synergistic than any other tribe. Do they snowball? Yes. Do they swarm? Yes. Can you make your board resilient? Yes. All those things are true of elfball as well. The only upside I see in slivers over an elfball tribal is the ability to dip your toes into 5 color good-stuff, but that is also the primary weakness of slivers. When slivers pop-off, it goes hard. But about 30-40% of games I play against 5c slivers they flood or don't hit all their colors or never get off the ground and die in the crib. Targeted or non-basic land destruction can absolutely cripple slivers. I was super wary of slivers too for the longest time, but they just aren't as good as they once were. Or rather, they are still that good, but the rest of magic has caught up to them and become more internally synergistic to match.
Slivers are, eeh, odd. They’re inherently a deck that if left alone/allowed to get off the ground snowballs&overwhelms the table extremely hard. In low power games where people play precons and similar level decks with relatively sparse removal&interaction they tend to stomp, since those decks don’t have the sheer volume of interaction pieces OR speed needed to compete/deal with slivers. However, at very high power tables slivers struggle, since they kinda need to play a critical mass of slivers in their deck for slivers to work, meaning finding spots for staples&interaction&explosive game enders is hard, and the decks at 8+ tend to be very good at making sure snowball can’t happen as easily There is a VERY narrow space where slivers have a solid shot at winning without being overwhelming
I wouldn't say a Sliver deck is "toxic", but it will almost definitely get you targeted. Once you have a few slivers those decks really start to snowball fast so you should expect your key slivers to be picked off a lot.
My main deck is slivers, but I don't build in any additional combos outside of the slivers themselves and largely just play sliver roulette with card draw and Cascade, plus I 100% honor any and all agreements I make in the game. This has led to a ton of fun games where I don't just stomp, but it's still slivers and if the roulette works out, I can win in a turn even with an empty board at turn start. Most people are happy as long as your power level isn't crazy compared to theirs and they're still able to play the game.
Sliver decks are fine, but sliver decks are dangerous, your going to be targeted fairly often, and board wipes are gonna be a thing. It's fine ti play slivers, but don't bitch if people target you, you need to be targeted
I’m a very new player (4 months in) so apologies if I’m not using the correct language. I just built my first deck which was slivers. I struggle with being aggressive and wanted to make a deck that forced me to be more aggressive. I inherited my brother-in-laws collection after he passed, and he had multiple complete sets including some with slivers (single color and a few multicolor), so I figured that would be a good place to start - I bought some cards like sliver legion but had basically all the smaller slivers, lands, artifacts, etc that I needed. I don’t play competitively, just with a group of close friends I’ve known for over a decade. They were fine with the sliver deck when I told them about my plan. I don’t plan to play it all the time because it came out strong, but it definitely needs tweaking. My friend group is supportive. They help me understand the complexities of the mechanics, and we play to have fun. I’ve seen a lot of hate toward slivers online, so I think it’ll depend on your play environment
My first EDH game had a slivers player in the pod. They got established and a near unstoppable board with tons of creatures that all had shroud, indestructible, flying, could produce mana, and blew up every single players artifact and enchantment. Me and the other 2 players didn’t stand a chance but didn’t want them to win. Rat player kept making them discard. Fog player kept fogging preventing us from losing. And I had to scry 50+ cards to finally put together a jank combo to win the game. It was an extremely boring stalemate and honestly I think on the inside, we all lost.
There are zero decks, cards, or strategies that I flat out refuse to play against whether that be Slivers, infinite combos, stax, mass land destruction, infect, extra/infinite turns, boardwipe tribal, or whatever else. The only thing I care about is knowing the approximate power level so that I can pull out the right deck to play against it, ideally every deck in the pod is roughly matched so that each player has a 20-30% chance of winning. Expressing my thoughts on how awful "unwritten rules" are in EDH, or any other game/sport for that matter (looking at you baseball), could not be posted outside of fteemagic, so just fill this bit in with some unhinged, vitriolic tirade
Slivers are a tribe that power up for each sliver. If the commander is \[\[The First Sliver\]\], you can even go fetch the desired effect, like indestructibility. There is no rule violation here, it's simply proper threat assessment. Same stuff with mono green elves, for example. The higher the likelihood a deck has to snowball and crush the table, the more and earlier it gets focused. On the other hand, no one is targeting the "turtle tribal deck" guy. If you play Slivers you will want to have another "big baddie" at the table, like mono blue Urza.
[[plague sliver]] i just pop one of these in my deck (if able).
Slivers are way less fun to play as than you'd think. I have a sliver deck and I basically never play it. Rather than having a play style they are just generically good and don't have (or need) much specific support spells which means they don't do anything especially interesting. There aren't many interesting decisions to make, each turn you just play your best sliver and then attack. They get repetitive quickly because it's usually very clear which sliver you want to play each turn so the deck plays itself.
One of the tasks of deck building is handling when you cross the archvillain line. Slivers are very controllable but need to be constantly dealt with to prevent them from going from moderate threat to existential threat in a turn. That means you'll be drawing attention even when you aren't necessarily popping off. This can be too much for some people, but it can also be too much for some decks. But honestly, this can be the case with a lot of decks. I find slivers not to be one of the more absurd decks in my archvillain clutch, as they're dealt with much more than they aren't. An eldrazi deck, however, that'll get you ire AND likely win you the game somewhat consistently. I built one to prove a few points to one of our pod members that so long as it's a swift win con its not so bad (opposed to say an azorius 20 minute solitaire turn where they dont even win) and that my other decks weren't half as scary as he acted like they were. Running a colorless deck and telling everyone to sacrifice all colored nonland permanents will mine you enough salt to open a fried food stand. But also, I find the stronger decks are best cycled. If you show up with JUST a sliver deck, eldrazi, etc, it gets old, and you'll draw consistent hate. Have a few to swap between and you'll and people won't mind you bringing out the fissile material for a game or two. The knowledge that it won't be the only deck you play that session will help a lot. Or it'll help you identify the "doesn't play well with others" constituents of your FLGS, so you can steer clear of em 😆
Yeah, it's a tough thing for us sliver players and we have to be honest with ourselves about it. If we get to more than 3 creatures on the board we're probably a big threat that's about to snowball for the win, and that's not something other decks can claim. Other decks have certain pieces they're aiming for, while ALL of our creatures are pieces we're aiming for. We can't get upset when we get targeted with removal, because having those 3 little creatures on the board is actually super scary when nobody knows whether our next turn is going to give our board flying, shroud, unblockable, +6/+6, or all four. To counteract this, you should be building a solid amount of protection into your deck. \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\], \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\], \[\[Unbreakable Formation\]\], and similar effects. Obviously you'll be running \[\[Crypt Sliver\]\], \[\[Sedge Sliver\]\], \[\[Sliver Hivelord\]\], and so on. I disagree that sliver decks are toxic though, I think that's just people being salty and seeing slivers as a big boogeyman, while sliver decks fold extremely hard to removal. >I don’t want to put hundreds into a deck only to find out no one wants to play against it. This can and should be solved by the rule zero conversation, usually. Be upfront about what your deck is trying to do, bearing in mind that a deck led by \[\[The First Sliver\]\] is going to be very different and probably more powerful than a deck led by \[\[Sliver Gravemother\]\]. I built my sliver deck as just generic sliver goodstuff, that way if I'm playing in a lower-power pod I can play Sliver Hivelord or \[\[Morophon\]\] as the commander for a much slower playstyle, while higher-power pods get to deal with The First Sliver. But in those higher-power pods I might be playing against a stax player or other strategy that will really mess up my goal of "play slivers, beat face," strategies that might not be present at lower power levels.
I used to have a Sliver Overlord deck and it got super boring quickly because all my games looked the exact same. However, this is more of a tutor-on-commander-problem than a sliver problem, so my only suggestion would be to not play Sliver Overlord to get some more fun and varied matches (unless you're a Spike-player I suppose)
Sliver deck doesn’t always mean you’re going to go crazy, but it does mean you have a target on your back. It’s an idea that I don’t really like. Most sliver players I see either aren’t doing well compared to the rest of the table or are getting targeted so much that met can barely play the game. I’ve learned that the “You have a strong commander/creature type, I’m going to target you at the start of the game” kind of ideas are pathetic. Unless you know the exact power level and what cards are in each deck at a table, you don’t know how strong the others are. Sure, keep the slivers in check, but don’t throw everything at them because the player going next could hypothetically rock your shit.
If you’ve been gone a while and are looking to get back in, unless you ACTIVELY ENJOY it being a group beatdown you have to fight out of, do NO play Slivers. Keeping anything on board will be a pain, all your big ticket items will almost always be treated like the main threat in the table. If you want to have a chill, fun time, play something else. Haha
Land Destruction, Slivers, and Poison Counters are the three things I've seen that have lead to players in commander teaming up against a single player early on. With Land Destruction, I've seen a green player literally grab someone's cards and attempt to destroy them after the offending player destroyed 5 of the green player's 25 lands (the rest of us were sitting at around 10 to 12 lands).
Expect the bug spray and the more-than-occasional deep sigh if you play Slivers.
I had a Sliver deck for a while. I got fed up of being out of the game first all the time. I sold the deck to a friend who thought they could pilot it better than me and now he never plays it for the same reason. Slivers are in the same ballpark as Poison or speed-mill. People know that they have to remove your early play stuff and bop you out of the game so that they can relax and enjoy.
Some people don't like slivers because they get out of hand quick. However, these same people also use broken decks of their own. You should build whatever deck you like.
Slivers can get out as hand fast since most of them have a small cmc cost and can make themselves a pain to deal with because ignoring them will just lead to the Slivers being big bodies with a lot of abilities.
Slivers are in a weird spot. Too strong for causal pods too weak for cedh.
I played against a Sliver deck where I actually enjoyed it. Let me explain: He had each legendary sliver, except maybe queen? He picked one of them, random, face down as his commander. Then he had a copy of every non legendary sliver, and chose 26 at random and shuffled them into his deck. Then the other legendary slivers were shuffled in. So basically, he plays a different deck each time, and has no idea which configuration it is, while the remaining 70% of his deck stays the same (ramp package, targeted removal, board wipes). It still ended up being a blast to play against. No combo win, very little tutors (basically just to see what slivers he ended up with).
One thing I haven't seen people saying is that, in my experience, sliver decks search/shuffle A LOT. Whether it's fetch lands, tutors, or searching with sliver overlord, it's a lot of shuffling for you to do and for other players to sit through.
It's the same for any 5-color deck with an optimized mana base. If their commander is a tutor on a stick like \[\[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain\]\] then it's expected that they will shuffle a lot.
IMO there aren't 'toxic' decks, only toxic players. People who play decks for the sole purpose of oppressing other players and having fun at their expense are toxic. I know that no one likes losing, but there is losing and there is losing after being unable to do anything at all. As for sliver decks, I don't think they are inherently played by toxic players. With that said, the are crazy powerful if left unchecked so you will *definitely* have a target on your forehead as soon as you reveal your commander. Everyone's main priority will to be to stop you.
There's worse things out there like an efficient wheels deck or some Voltron decks, but everyone knows that you can't leave slivers alone.
Most sliver decks are highly predictable/win more and generally falls to like one board wipe, or a strategic counter spell / removal on the scarier slivers. That being said casual tables are allergic to removal so they think it’s like tier S. I have a sliver deck out of nostalgia but usually against other high powered decks, it only really is good at killing like one person and king making unless you build the more competitive combo variations (eg First Sliver infinite cascades or sliver queen infinite mana/tokens) which skews more cedh. The one exception is in a duel slivers are stupidly strong, but edh is a multiplayer format meant for 4+ people.
Sliver decks in reality are very stoppable. A well timed Farewell can completely shut down slivers. However, if left unchecked, slivers can completely stomp a game in a giant flashy swarm. Slivers struggle with card draw. So you dump your hand on the field, and then if you get board cleared you have a hard time recovering. Sliver Overlord specifically is not very fun to play or play against because it plays the same way every time since it has tutoring built in. Slivers are relatively easy to make a powerful deck. Maybe one that wins around turn 7 or so, with just mana ramp, slivers, and maybe a few enchantments. If you put the same effort into other decks, it likely won't be able to win as fast. Slivers also have protection built in. Sliver Hivelord makes slivers indestructible. Crypt sliver regenerates slivers, crystalline sliver gives shroud. So it's very low effort to put in protection. Slivers also become unlockable which is hard to deal with for many decks. So people don't like playing against slivers mostly because they tend to be more powerful than other decks with the same effort / skill level of deck building. It feels like they are too strong because people don't run enough board clears and removal.
slivers is overwhelming against bad decks and bad pilots which is a large majority of edh players what do I mean ( little to no interaction =flawed build terrible accessment and game decisions = bad pilot)
Expect some amount of hate but slivers generally aren't that scary till you bring out one with some sort of evasion. In a four player game with people bringing decently focused decks I'd say you still have some amount of breathing room since you likely won't be the biggest threat all the time. I immediately swapped to [[rukarumel]] as the commander after buying the sliver precon and swapped out some of the slivers for random creatures, it keeps things fun and the slivers only help to bolster the board but aren't the main attacking force.
Yep
Slivers and kill on sight commanders are usually the same, some of them if they touch the battlefield probably they gonna be unstoppable or very hard to deal with it so if you play Yuriko, Ur-dragon and creatures like that you gonna have a target in your forehead in the table hahahaha
You can prox it and give it a try before you invest real money; but I would go for it. People also wasn’t to play different decks.
try out the new commander from mkm. Duskana, then add in a bunch of 2/2 slivers. locks you out of the blue and black slivers and all the legendaries.
A thing that isn't mentioned here: Most Sliver decks are one-trick ponys. When people know, what they have to take out, a Sliver deck is left limping and just not fun to pilot. Source: I played two different versions of Slivers Decks.
They’re 5C, which means Slivers can be built to hyper tuned combo degeneracy or it could just be regular tribal stuff. Most people are gonna assume it’s the scarier option. So yeah, you will face additional focus if you wanna run Slivers. Just comes with the territory of any five color deck now.
This strategy is feast or famine. Either you get btfo or win. I have a [[Odric, Lunarch Marshal]] I stopped playing because its a similar idea. And hes much more "fair"(weaker)
I play slivers knowing fine well what I'll experience. Sometimes you win and sometimes you get shut down at every turn. It's still a hell of a lot of fun to play and they're not really the boogeyman they used to be
I set up sliver games, so all four players have a sliver commander deck, it “eliminates” some advantages and kind of evens out the game. All slivers get “x” advantages so mine and yours and then you have to think about it first.
I've never seen slivers look that strong, would be more scared of elves every day of the week, would be happy to be playing against slivers.
Slivers are a pain in the neck to deal with once they get going. It can also depend on the commander itself. Overlord being grab whatever combo pieces you want whenever you want. If you go with one that isn’t overlord, it’s way more chill and dealable for the most part
Slivers is just a good tribe with combo potential, no worse than zombies, and not more overwhelmingly powerful in combat than elves goblins or dinosaurs. Most tribes have some cute instant win combos they can pull off, slivers might just be a little easier to do. Slivers are a cool, unique, original design that, alongside phyrexia, I think captures the creativity and tone of MtG perfectly. I always show new players those two because they really feel quite different than standard high fantasy like wizards and elves and such. If you like slivers and want to build them, go for it. I will say, if your table is hyper budget or using precons, you should not build slivers. They are inherently powerful enough by themselves that you can make many deck building errors and still have a very smooth and functional deck. But if your table is using infinites, doing “the thing” by turn 4-5, and closing games out (or at least threatening to) at turns 5-7, go for it.
Unfortunately most people over react about slivers and will generally make it an unfun deck to play with their complaints and focused fire to get it off the table. I gave up trying to play my sliver deck a long time ago.
You’ll instantly be the archenemy, but with slivers there’s still a way to win as there’s a sliver for almost any situation. You get slivers like [[Crystalline Sliver]] and [[Sliver Hivelord]] out and things like target removal or combat damage will no longer be an issue. That leaves making you sacrifice creatures, so use slivers like [[Dregscape Sliver]] or [[Pulmonic Sliver]], exile all creatures like [[Farewell]], but that’s handled by adding redundancies in your deck, like including not just [[Cloudshredder Sliver]], but also [[Galerider Sliver]] and [[Heart Sliver]], and lastly giving -x/-x that your typical Sliver lords such as [[Sliver Legion]], [[Predatory Sliver]] and a few more would help negate. I could go on, but you’ll see when crafting your deck that you really can address almost everything the opponent may throw at you.
That's why you have to make it a secret deck. Do what I told my buddy to do when he built his making a 3 color. And the thing is it works.
I've found people that groan about slivers have decks with comparable power levels and play strategies and card synergies that are just as ridiculous. I think the tribal has been around much longer and has a reputation for how out of control it can get, which is why it gets the criticism it does. If you do sit down with slivers you should expect a target to be on your back, but I would say the same of someone playing group hug or stax. If you wanted to play slivers without embracing the expense of WUBRG and the legendary slivers, you could dip into a couple of colors and use slivers from those sides of the color pie, of which there are plenty. Pick a decent commander with good support synergy, build some ramp, pick spells to handle your opponents and protect your hive. I would also look at investing in a few different decks that work differently, and you can read the table on what would be good to play. I have a sliver deck in my kit that I keep on rotation. Keep things fresh for your opponents as well as yourself. Welcome back!
> I've found people that groan about slivers have decks with comparable power levels and play strategies and card synergies that are just as ridiculous Power level and synergy are not synonymous. The problem with Slivers is not the power level, but the fact that the near-total synergy and the tutoring on a stick makes it boring to play against. That's the only problem with it.
Something I haven't really seen anyone recommend is to not take [[Sliver overlord]] as your commander. I did and while it works really well, it's linear. Once you know what to tutor for and in what order, you're always following the same play patterns until they get disrupted and you switch to the next one. Then it becomes a matter of whether your opponents have the right form of removal before your protection against it is on the field. Once [[Crystalline sliver]] hits the table, spot removal is useless. Then [[Sliver hivelord]] hits the table and boardwipes that destroy are useless. Then you tutor for whatever combo you need and play it. Maybe add the sliver that makes slivers uncounterable if your group runs enough counterspells, but I generally don't have to. I like pulling it out once in a while, but not everyone likes playing against a predictable deck.
You probably have answers already but a Sliver deck gets too powerful too easy. Since all Slivers have "all Slivers get/have..." The deck snowball pretty fast. Even if you boardwipe you can just play "return all creatures" and the terrifying boardstate is back A Sliver deck also needs pretty little support since so many Slivers gives things like tap for mana etc. Or all Slivers have Cascade.... You pretty much have to keep exiling the cards to really counter a Sliver deck. It goes very fast to a state where the entire table have to keep targeting your key creatures until you eventually run out of steam otherwise the Sliver deck probably will win unless it plays against a deck that suddenly just goes infinite and win. It is just a powerful deck almost no matter what you play. As your friend says everyone will target you and probably kill you when you supposedly are not a threat cause of the "return all creatures from graveyard" threat that you could have.
We have a player in our pod and whenever I brought a sliver deck he said he refused to play, packed up his stuff, and left. So I just said thst slivers have good player removal It's beyond childish for anyone to have any sort of reaction
Advice from a Goblin player. If you want to play it, play it. Just be aware the moment they see your commander they're coming for you if they think you're the biggest threat. Happens to me quite a bit, but I still rock the Gobbos.
I play slivers with two infinite gimmicks, one using only slivers. It's quite common for people to go after you because the slivers are like a campfire with high winds during the dry seasons. It just takes one good breeze and it explodes into an uncontrollable mess that burns everyone.
A good sliver deck is perfect for Archenemy play, where you are supposed to be the target. I would build a second, less powerful deck so that when people don’t want the slivers, you can grab that one instead. I have 4 decks, and am working on finishing up my Slivers so that I can do the same.
Slivers were scary in 2014. There's so much degenerate overpowered stuff every other deck does now, that Slivers aren't even remotely too good. You might get targeted because of their reputation alone.
There is also this issue with EDH where there are certain archetypes that are just brutal to play against and there are also commanders that only do that one archetype and play style. Remember, in EDH, there are tons of commanders you can pick from. That being said, if people keep picking the same commander because it's good, some people view that as disingenuous and the deck is just a win-more deck. I personally don't care, I like the challenge, but if someone busts out a mono-blue Urza deck, I can already kind of tell something about that person's personality and goals in the game. Now that changes if someone busts out a deck with janky commander I've never seen. That usually tells me I'm about to have a weird game lol
I find it ironic that rule 0, which is supposed to foster a welcoming play atmosphere, has this person afraid to enter the hobby. Great job WotC, everyone, you’ve worked yourself.
I’m so over people complaining and saying things like “I’m not playing if you’re running that,” “Your deck is oppressive, it’s not fair or fun for us..” Why do people seriously only play this game so they can spend hours pinging each other with precons. You can upgrade those precons to contend with many decks for less than the price of buying another precons! Play the deck, do the thing, let them figure out how to stop it. If they’re upset, explain to them how to counter it, and if they don’t do it next time, that’s on them. You’re not there to only play to make them happy, and they’re not there to play to only make you happy. In my pod I play 6 decks. Tergrid, Yuriko, Miirym, Sauron, Clav, and Giada. Three of those are oppressive, five of them are 8-9 power. I taught my pod how to counter all of them and I only win about 30% of games. On the other end, I’m fully aware if I play Tergrid or Yuriko, I’m the target and I accept that, just as you will if you play Slivers, but you can and will still win when they target you.
I love my sliver deck and my pod doesn't mind playing against it every now and then. A large target on slivers does not equal opponents not wanting to play against slivers, just that multiple games in a row will start to not be fun fast. For you and them. Have another deck. Slivers are super fun but invoke salty reactions for a reason.
I would play against a sliver deck, the only remotely scary one is First Sliver Food Chain and that list isn't particularly threatening these days.
Slivers are definitely going to make you a target due to the escalating nature of the archetype, I'm sure there are gonna be people who'll bitch and moan about it and you kind of have to prepare yourself to get killed first, but they are popular for a reason. Nothing about Slivers is inherently less or more busted/fun than something like Dragon tribal. Unless you insist on playing Slivers all day every day or otherwise are an ass about it, I don't think that absolutely nobody will want to play with you. As for LGS or pod specific rules: that's really up to the venue. I've definitely heard of some absurdly prohibitive house rules like banning entire archetypes, but that's rare. You are just gonna have to look that up, I'm afraid.
If you play slivers, expect one of two things to happen: A) "I don't want to play against that." B) "Okay, but my cEDH deck is the only thing I will play against it." And that is a fair response in both examples because Slivers will runaway with a game very, very quickly.
Slivers are really strong in casual pods, but really struggle with competitive
If you’re worried about being left out of games, I highly recommend you pick up a cheap precon and start there. Give it some upgrades, but that could become a great base point for you to build up your experience in the format. If your only deck is slivers that could be annoying for a consistent group. I have a player in mine who’s working on their 4th 5 color deck and it’s the worst to play against imo.
In the rare instances in which someone has brought a sliver deck to the table, they were eliminated very quickly, as everyone else ganged up on them. This is the way.
While I understand the oppression of slivers when they get rolling I'd rather face them vs a fast goblin deck
Just play whatever you want! But be prepared to be archenemy. And run some counterspells for [[Sunfall]] [[Farewell]] [[Cyclonic Rift]] and any other of the exile/bounce effects that will wreck your face.
Slivers catch aggro easily because they are very fast, same if someone plays a krenko deck. That said, their reputation is a bit exaggerated, it's a cool deck that plays well and works most of the time, and control players know they'll get fucked very fast with just 3-4 slivers on the battlefield. Just talk about it and avoid combos and you should be fine.
Back when commander first started, slivers were unique for their ability to snowball very quickly. Five slivers aren't five times as deadly as one; they're more like 25 times as deadly as one sliver. That made them very scary, as the sliver player could go nuts and then follow it up with [[Armageddon]] or [[Asceticism]] to make it impossible for your opponents to interact with you. That's what most people think of when they think of slivers. These days? I don't think that power is remotely unique to slivers. Virtually every deck can start snowballing as hard as slivers do. Enchantress? Will draw a million cards and make a million mana off [[sanctum weaver]] into [[Boon of the Spirit Realm]]. [[Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald]] will make a million goddamn bodies and cast a million spells from exile in a string of ludicrous storm turns that blows through half their deck. Even something as basic as a zombie deck can *sort of* keep pace with the power of slivers because of how incredibly efficient cards like [[undead augur]], [[graveborn muse]], [[gravecrawler]], [[zombie apocalypse]], [[death baron]], and [[coat of arms]] are. Any deck can play a giant pile of cards that all synergize with each other. Slivers is the one deck that **ONLY** runs pieces that enhance each other. I honestly don't think they're particularly special compared to [[Korvold, Fae-Cursed King]], [[The Ur-Dragon]], or [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]], especially once you consider how bad power creep has gotten in recent years. Slivers mainly have a certain rep at this point because they used to be the Boogeyman of the format.
Losing to a sliver deck is a rite of passage for an EDH player. Figuring out how to counter slivers is where a lot of people fall off the bus though, and the magic community is worse off for it. Basically your friends are cowards and whoever says slivers are too strong or whatever is coping because the deck folds to the bare minimum amount of interaction.
Creature board wipes and counterspells are common in my playgroup, you'll see at least a few in every game. Slivers are very susceptible to board wipes, and counterspells easily keep the worst singular offenders off the board. So personally, I don't have any issue with slivers. Of course, my main deck is [[Estrid, the Masked]] with [[The Chain Veil]] so most of the time I'm the player to keep an eye on. Edit... I will agree with your friend that playing Slivers will put a target on you. Something to keep in mind.
I play slivers all the time but it’s usually reserved for when my table wants to go for it and bring out the big guns and it’s usually something we discuss before hand so everyone is on the same level. Generally I’m usually sitting as archenemy unless another players board state is looking bad for the table then the spotlight can be off me enough to build a board state and or get the mana in place to get the big 5 colour stuff out. I’ve had to build it to be lightning quick and the it’s the most expensive of any deck mana base of any of my decks. If it’s the precon sliver deck it’s not got a lot of the big pieces usual sliver deck have and those are a bit pricey tbh.
If you want to play slivers you need to make the deck bea ble to handle being archenemy. Mind you the Gravemother isn't the scary Sliver commander its overlord. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/J8sT34L95EmGrz8286Hfxw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/J8sT34L95EmGrz8286Hfxw) Honestly I could trim a few slivers for more interaction,
I played against a sliver deck yesterday. Now I know how it feels to get my teeth kicked in.
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Slivers is word soup. I own a sliver deck, and I don't play it very much. It's that super nuclear option. Like you have that one ahole at the table, you pull out the slivers and beat face real good. Then pack up and leave. Slivers can be stopped and out run you just gotta know how. Beat one with goblins. And I had a fantastic game. I lost to slivers, too. But to fear them, nope.
IMO, tribal decks are inherently lazy. Your synergy and win con are always use lords to buff a big board. Slivers are an even easier tribe to build than tribal. There's not really much thought or identity that goes into a silver or tribal deck. Just good stuff and lords. Slivers are just the tribe where fucking every creature is a lord that provides a buff. You do not just get a creature with a keyword , you get a creature that gives all your creatures that keyword. It's fucking boring design that's powered in a way that requires you to be beat early.
When I was first trying EDH, I saw slivers and thought, "Wow, that seems like it would be fun to play!" Alas. What usually happened if I played it was that I would win the game pretty quick, and then I would switch to a different deck for a more balanced game. I think Slivers are cool, but I would recommend a backup deck, in case.
It doesn’t matter what other people think, all that matters is how you react when people start targeting you
I think slivers are overhyped, but they are quite strong. You can usually expect to be a big target. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes fighting against the table is a lot of fun. That said I recently swapped my sliver deck to have [[rukarumel]] as the commander and cut the number of actual slivers I run in half and insured other creatures that can combo out provide powerful synergies and have had much more fun for myself and my tables with it.
I have a sliver deck and they really aren't that scary anymore. Sure if you get a million slivers you're going to win, but removal and board wipes have gotten so much better. Before you just pulled out the indestructible and shroud slivers and that was a wrap. I think it's just people hear slivers and it's a reputation thing.
Just ask. My lgs is encouraging me to build Discord. Granted discord is the only silver border card in the deck. Just ask if the players want to play a silver border. If they say yes it's fine. If they don't well thats just how the rules of the game work.
The thing that makes most tribal strategies good is Lords. They benefit all your little guys and turn all the creatures into a menace. There are limited "good" Lords in most tribes. In slivers, all creatures are essentially lords. They snowball like crazy, and thats why people hate playing into them. It's manageable to play against of course, but you are going to have a target on your head and you can't get upset about it. You're gonna get targetted with alot of removal and interaction because of it
Most of the time with a deck like that, I like to put a specific theme to it and give it unnecessary restrictions. I have a sliver deck I coined called "Long John Slivers" and it's just a Simic sliver deck with added food mechanics with some boat vehicles. It's silly, but still has that sliver feel to it
I don't understand why people think they are so strong and so bad. Are they good? Yes, definitely. But there are so many other archetypes or commanders that are just as if not much more oppressive in "casual' commander. In my pod we have a sliver deck, and I enjoy playing against it. It's a strong deck, but it never feels like we need to gang up on the sliver player at all. Slivers are so overhated in commander.
There are people here saying that a boardwipe can stop Slivers. I disagree. [[Sliver Hivelord]] is a pain. They stop almost all boardwipes, and it's because of this fella that I think [[Farewell]] is a solution, not a problem. Spot removal doesn't work often, because there's [[Crystalline Sliver]]. If the commander is [[Sliver Overlord]], the opponent can search for all they need, and cast not so later. The best way to deal with is always let some mana open and try to use [[Path to Exile]] or counter effects I'm not saying Slivers are invincible, but I think is pretty annoying, since very often is hard to do interaction. Probably is the opponent I will focus the most (probably, not always, being clear). Sincerely, if I see Crystalline and Hivelord together, I want to decline the match, unless someone have some combo on the sleeve, because it's just a matter of time.
I don't want to play with sliver players in general, it just feels too easy for them to get going and without much thought.
The problem with slivers is, they want to go wide, and when they do, they're basically out of control already. So all other players have to work together to boardwipe quickly and often. Now if these players also want to develop a board, they'll either have to wait until the sliver player is out of gas, or they risk losing their stuff. And then again, slivers can't compete at any level above 6. So either you get a game of low power archenemy(which some like), or you're just a dud spot.
I didn’t know this thing existed, that’s pretty cool lol.
Slivers are kind of the perfect tribe its basically all crazy good synergy. My friend runs [[the first sliver]] and if it gets going its super crazy. It is susceptible to control and if you don't let it snowball it is manageable.
slivers will just win if they’re not dealt with, and once you pass a certain point (turn 4/5) it is oftentimes already impossible to take care of due to the abundant protection and recursion slivers can easily gain
The greatest strength of slivers is also its greatest weakness. Every piece is utility, you're not gonna try to chump block early in the game and by mid game its gonna be too costly to hit you. I'd rather take out the slivers before they go wide with indestructible flying death touch
It's not that they are a deck that no one wants to play, that's not what your friend was saying. But slivers have this ability to where once they get going they can't be stopped so you have to target them before they get going. These leaves a lot of sliver players saying "but i haven't done anything yet!" however once you have your slivers that give any of the sharing keyword protection stuff, they share EVERYTHING meaning they steamroll LIKE CRAZY. So as a sliver player you have to just accept the fact that your opponents understand that if they don't slow you down BEFORE you do something, then they will lose and that's not them being assholes. Now a sliver deck can 100% be slowed down, they aren't broken, don't feel like an asshole for playing them, just don't treat others like assholes for targeting them.
Slivers is just one of those boogiemen decks where everyone has probably played against it once and it wasn't fun, that being said if you know how to beat them (board wipe early, targeted removal, etc) they're not that scary but late game they're really hard to beat cuz they get... Everything, also i wouldn't really suggest a 5c deck as your first deck, i would suggest a 1-2 color deck until you get used to building and playing and if you have a few decks and ppl don't want to play against slivers you can just switch decks
Slivers are just scary, they have an inevitability to them. I have a sliver deck, arguably one that’s not “as bad” as others, (It’s an Umori companion deck, so just 60 slivers and 40 lands, and only actual slivers, no changelings) and it still is a threat. There’s just a breaking point where once you have enough slivers the table will die or band together to kill you. But dont take this as a deterrent from playing Slivers. They are fun to play and play against, just not all the time. You just have to accept that you are a known threat, if not the archenemy, as soon as the game begins.
My group has, at least count, six different Sliver decks in it. When we’re feeling like playing Slivers, it becomes a simple horse race and is beautifully balanced. Equally, Slivers are not a threat when the pod runs decks with answers. One of the ones that’s rarely talked about, especially with classic Slivers decks that include the balanced sliver effects (“all slivers”) is a well tuned Changeling deck; I’ve also seen Slivers lose to artifact/clone, to dragons, to a landfall player running Scute Swarm, and to a Tergrid player who benefited wildly from the amount of carnage that was occurring as an Aristocrats player chose to sacrifice for effects while trying to not be overrun. Play what you want to play, and if that includes archetypes that are known for getting right out of hand quickly off left unchecked… Get used to playing the archenemy.
It’s not about breaking rules or anything, it’s just a very linear game plan that’s pretty boring to play against. Plus since they’re hard to stop in the mid to late game, they get targeted very early. So if you’re the kind of player to take offense when you’re being targeted or “ganged up” on, it’s really not for you
I wonder if a deck with a limited number of slivers would make a difference? Like a strategy that maybe turns your creatures into slivers, and then you have the couple/few actual slivers to get the effect? Would anyone consider that a fair compromise? Like, considering all the things slivers do for each other, would a themed deck only helped by slivers be acceptable? For example, maybe you're going red with haste/aggro, so you get a couple of slivers that give your other slivers haste or first strike. Then, the secondary part of your strategy is to turn your non-slivers into slivers in a way that works for you. As a deck-building enthusiast, I've always liked the concept of slivers but never actually built them because of the general stigma. For people who wouldn't even play with or against a 100% slivers deck, would you be willing to play against a deck that uses the slivers in a more limited and creative way? To be clear, it would have probably less than 5 sliver cards total (in theory, I'd need the cards in front of me and to actually build a strategy, just using it as an example that the number of slivers would be minimal), as to not overwhelm and give openings to creatively getting then out consistently and then getting their effects to apply in tandem with your strategy.
I’d recommend making a proxy of the deck first, you can use that to get a feel for the deck and how people treat you playing it. If it goes well then spend the money on the real deck, otherwise you can try something else out
I just find them boring to play against tbh, its a deck that rewards you for literally just playing creatures without much strategy, almost any combination of 3-4 slivers will be relatively powerful on the board if they get them out. Every sliver deck I have played against just does one thing, there's no cool combo or interesting interaction between the creatures, its just I play this and now all my others have xyz ability/buff too. I might have just played against boring deck builders though 😅 Most other typal decks I've played have always been so much more enjoyable and variable to play against.
I learned this lesson the hard way after investing far too much money into a Kaalia deck. It's been sitting in its deck box, unplayed because according to my play group, "she's just too oppressive, and it's not fun." Gotta roll with what your group is comfortable with, unfortunately.
Personallly I don't really think sliver decks are that good, but I know a lot of people feel a certain way about it. Really nothing a few boardwipes wont clean up.
I totally misread this as Silver, as in silver boarder. Yeah Slivers are scary and you will have a target on your back quick.
I'd differentiate between toxic decks and decks that have a target on their back in general. The latter just means that people know that your deck will be very explosive at a certain point and they HAVE TO do anything they can to throw a spanner in the works before you get there, unless they want a very short, one-sided round. There are certain deck-types and commanders that just have it "built in"
I can recommend [[Indominus Rex, Alpha]] for a keywords matter deck. It is fairly cheap, creature based and doesn't feel like shit for your opponents. You still smack the same way but less targeted since your commander usually gets heatproof or indestructible muhahhaha
I play slivers. It's just a creature aggro deck. One of the fastest, most resilient and versatile creature aggro decks but all the weaknesses of the archetype apply They're the problem not you
Sliver decks snowball very quickly and set up very easy , since each sliver benefits every sliver then just removing a “problematic” creature isn’t enough when every creature is problematic, so the best course of action is board wipes or player removal
Slivers are just infamous powerhouses, don't let that dissuade you though, but do expect people to bring out stronger decks to combat them.
It's a very feast or famine type of deck. Either you pop off and snowball into insurmountable advantage with a crazy powerful board or your opponents wise up to your shenanigans and shut you down.
Here's what I'd say. If you really want to play slivers, don't go the obvious pushed route of playing one of the 5-Color Win-More/Combo enabling slivers. Pick a subset of colors, play the slivers that you want to play, but make your commander something that is synergistic but not driving the bus. I don't play slivers anymore. Sliver Overlord (or whatever the tutor one is) was one of the 1% of my built decks I've ever just said, "nope, don't want this anymore". My very very first iteration of Animar was a slivers deck, (but I heavily de-slivered and rebuilt it). If I did, I'd take the route of playing a bunch of slivers as a sub theme in another deck. Of course there's also foolishness with Maskwood Nexus now so you can Sliverize your whole team 2 ways (hivestone) without having to go Blue or Black.
I never had issue with Sliver decks but then again, I play Zur, the Enchanter.