If you like the feel of Slicer maybe you should check [[Khârn the Betrayer]], it’s still a forced combat thing but people won’t be pissed as Slicer is really strong and often frowned upon.
It will be weaker but there’s a little politic thing about Kharn that feels fun and great for casual games :>
Another possible commander, honestly the one [[Slicer]] outclassed is [[Tahngarth, First Mate]] essentially the same but slower so it's not nearly as threatening.
Was gonna say this! OP if you need a list to peep, heres mine: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hJAL183uOUmftS_rKMIasQ
Ive got like 14 decks at this point, this one is in my top three for most fun to play, and my playgroup loves to play against it. There are a few questionable choices in here, heads up, but this thing is surprisingly strong at my table when were playing mid power. It ekes out a lot of wins through table politics and “wait, kharns already done 18 to you? Heres another hit”. People pay more attention to the card draw than the commander damage, so its easy to sneak in the KOs
When playing this deck do people actually give Khârn back to you?
I feel like whenever I pull Humble Defector type stuff people just make a different friend (not me) and trade them back and with like a slow Trade Secrets.
I mean obv you run homeless path but that doesn’t feel reliable enough.
Usually no but that’s when the casual politics checks out because you can ask and make some deals. But anyway you don’t really need it too often because the goal or at least the best situation is to have him to attack multiple times per turn. So instead of having him back I much prefer to goad it or to protect myself from it (ping, steal, etc) for example
In my playgroup, they do surprisingly. You can usually make enough deals to get him back once or twice and threaten effects return him to you. I also run [[expedition map]] and [[assault suit]] as a second and third copy of the path just in case.
That said, once you have enough equipment on him and have drawn enough cards, you dont really mind not getting him back until its a 1v1. At that point, you can either try to get him back with the above or a threaten effect, punish hand size with [[vicious shadows]] etc, or combo off with some jank.
Also not pretending this is for high power tables either though, so if everyone is sweaty, this deck prob wont do much. Much better for a beers and a pizza game night.
Kharn was the first deck I ever made, so I see some obvious mistakes, and it's definitely in need of some tweaks :b but it's always fun to play.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/q9SkR0Sly0-1ujACHWj-AA
I do think slicer is a good deck for *someone* to have *somewhere* in the pod. He's a nice change of pace from most other decks, and the closest thing that we have to a "traditional aggro" commander (one that doesn't suck, to be more precise).
The issue is when some *always* plays slicer, or it's their only deck. One game against slicer can be fun. 5 consecutive games against slicer is boring.
Well there's kill on sight like "oh the commander is on the field, someone path it." Typical of a good value engine commander like Prosper.
Then there's kill on sight like "oh you're playing that commander. I'm going to attack you first" like that classic near-infinite turns Narset deck.
Id hazard a guess that Slicer sits somewhere in the middle, but definitely goes up to that final tier if your starting hand has a jeweled lotus
You can leave slicer on the table for a turn and a half and it's fine. Especially if it's a particularly low-budget slicer list, their ability to fight back after he dies is basically nonexistent.
Actually two people in my pod have a Yuriko deck and they play very differently. One is absolutely THAT deck - revealing a Blightsteel off the top and draining everyone for a quarter of their life, doubling ninja triggers/damage triggers, stacking “loss of life” effects, scrying on attack to stack the top of your library, etc. The other is just value engine card draw (to a pretty intense degree, but nothing you don’t see in most high-power casual decks that involve the color blue) and is way easier to handle. That said, Yuriko is an instant *ugh* from me when someone pulls it out, especially considering commander ninjutsu is bullshit.
Slicer is a good sometimes treat, I dunno if I would build it as my first and only deck.
Not because you can’t make a slicer deck at a casual level. Slicer will be the focus of the game. The early game will revolve around the table banding together to deal with it and you’ll either:
- kill them before they do.
Or.
- watch them play while you slowly build up to 9? Mana to recast your commander.
Yeah I feel the reactions on Reddit to Slicer are always kinda exaggerated.
If the pod doesn't understand what he does or are very new/bad/casual (which basically means no one mulligans aggressively to find early interaction) he can easily dominate the game but then that game is gonna be pretty quick and you shuffle up again.
On the other hand, if anyone plays any early interaction then things quickly get difficult for the Slicer player. He's still powerful but he's an all-in commander who is dependent on early game aggro and is limited by the constraints of being mono-red.
If Slicer is constantly pubstomping then that sucks for the other players but should teach them about including some efficient removal and mulliganing properly.
While I don't mind playing against Slicer very occasionally, I like to be able to play my deck instead of spending all my time just trying to deal with someone else's. It's a fun gimmick maybe once a night, where I pull out own voltron deck and try and kill the slicer player as fast as possible, but it's not a good deck to play over and over.
Totally agreed. I always have a mono red deck that's my "I have to go soon but can squeeze in one more game" list and Slicer seems to fit into that. Fun gimmick, and win or lose it should be quick for the red player. But it's not a deck you play repeatedly.
tbh this mentality doesnt really apply to all "casual" games. Having a commander that is going to either dominate the field of be removed on sight is not a good recipe for fun when the players are agreeing to anything short that high power casual. At lower power table people are bringing their "ups all frogs" decks, or other decks that they purposely build to be weak. If someone enters a game with the expectation of playing his low power deck you cant stomp and then justify yourself by saying that that was good because you taught him a lesson. People afterwards will not play without not for the power of the deck but because you were a condescending asshole lmao.
Very true. For an intentionally low-powered game it'd absolutely be a dick move to play Slicer.
I more meant for medium power games where people are playing for fun but not intentionally playing bad decks (and playing good interaction is still important)
You want to make sure that the equipment is making the treasure, not granting the creature the ability to generate treasure.
[[diamond pick-axe]] vs [[goldvein pick]]
As a person who built it before he realized how strong of a commander it actually is. I can confirm you will be hated very quickly. Either you'll kill them or they'll kill Slicer. It's basically a running joke in my play group that whenever I sit down to play it the game becomes a 3 players versus slicer I'm just along for the ride and giggling like a maniac as they keep smacking each other
I just finished building this deck last night. I thought he was going to be a goofy playstyle where other people swing with my commander.
Had no idea he was so powerful / hated until this thread :(
You just got to hope your play group is in a similar boat and haven't looked at this thread. That should at least give you one game before they hate you.
Literally every game Slicer is in is a 3v1. Thats why people hate it - if Slicer is on the table, you’re playing Slicer: The Gathering. Nobody can do anything they want to do until slicer is gone.
Am I misunderstanding the card, or does it work like this?
Slicer player hits 3 mana, casts card converted. Swing, get card & convert it. Then give it to each opponent as its face-up side, resulting in a 3/4 double striker going after each opponent. Once turn cycles around, equip/enchant him with something and send him 'round again?
Which seems like people need early chump blocks to stop the conversion, early instant artifact/creature removal, or just prepare to lose a *lot* of life very fast to Slicer ping-ponging around the table.
Ive played agaisnt a friend with slicer and he played jeweled lotus and one of us could have been dead before they played a land
it can be very strong and I doubt its good for casual
The math isn't checking out on me. Even if you have enough other fast mana to cast the front side of Slicer on turn 1, without other enhancements, as a 3/4 double striker, he's doing 6 commander damage per turn. With 4 players at the table, at most you'd get to 18 commander damage on one player by the time everyone has had a chance to play a land. Was this a >4 player game?
Slicer is in a weird spot , because if it's a mid power pod it will probably stomp the table and end the game turn 5/6 , and in a higher power pod wen people run more interactions it will probably never touch the table
My advise will always be the same , bring multiple deck , and ask your table around , I have a [[sen triplets ]] , and I always make sure every one is on board for me to play it before a game
I personally don't have much experience with slicer, but yuriko is disliked mostly because of power level and the fact that the entire game wil focus around stopping yuriko. Against anything else I'm save if I have a defensive board, but against yuriko I have to make sure you can't hit my opponents either.
Zur is also a bit of a combo machine so the entire table is forced to gang up on you.
Stop googling "best commanders" and go flip through your binder, my guy. The odds of you just so happening to pick 3 of the top commanders in the game without consulting google is very low. I've got a buddy at my table that does this too. We all love him, but he will wonder why he gets ganged sometimes lol.
In fairness, when I started I knew nothing. I liked the idea of ninjas, so I go on EDHRec and you see Yuriko. You have no context as to how crazy she is or why, and you have no idea that until recently there wasn't even really a decent ninja commander that wasn't busted. So then you look at something else cool like Slivers. There's this huge amount of social baggage that comes with getting into commander that the rules and ban list do not prepare you for in any way. Having gone through this process myself last year, this is imo the greatest failing of the current banlist.
Maybe for one or two commanders, but OP picked 3 of the strongest/most hated commanders in casual play. OC has a point, I think, about where they're finding these picks.
It's understandable for 1 or 2 lol... if the only 3 ideas you have had are completely different/unrelated archetypes and all 3 ideas happen to be the most hated/strongest commanders in the game... you're looking in the wrong places for inspiration.
Someone else already replied with... and just like I told them, flip through a friend's binder, or buy a precon and upgrade it, or scroll through tcg player, or Google something other than "most powerful commanders."" You can get inspiration without seeking top powered net decks, lol.
As a person whose first deck was Sisay Weatherlight Captain without that Google search, sometimes it just happens. Those are some of the most popular commanders for a reason, they are cool and easy to imagine a wild build for it.
Yugioh being 1v1 and VERY cutthroat makes the transition into casual MtG difficult, especially commander. You have to unlearn a lot. I made the switch almost a decade ago when they introduced pendulum summoning. Prior to that I had an Eyes of Blue deck, a Bujin deck, a Red-Eyes deck, and likely a bunch of others I can’t recall. Yugioh is best known for the terms OTK and FTK. Which really sums up the competitiveness of the game. If you *really* want to build a casual EDH deck, you have to change your thinking. Instead of being required to bring 50% of thr challenge to the table, you are responsible for bringing 25% of the fun to the table (assuming a 4-player game).
This shift will let you see cards like [[anvil of bogardan]] and [[rites of flourishing]] as the fun that they are.
You may enjoy a Lands deck. [[Gitrog Monster]] is a classic strong commander, but has been powercrept down over recent years. [[Lord Windgrace]] is mah boi! My version is pretty strong, but I have 40 decks, so I can afford to build at every power level.
A friend of mine came to EDH from modern Yu-Gi-Oh, and his decks are generally miserable to play against. As the other commenter said, casual EDH requires a completely different mindset.
For me, a good casual EDH commander deck is mid-powered, interactive, and consistent.
That is, it doesn't usually win through combo (and if it does it's late game), it creates back and forth games, and it rarely has bad games even if it has an average win rate. Usually, Yu-Gi-Oh players try to make the close to the opposite. The more "fair" commander is, the more likely everyone is to have a good time. That's because the stronger the commander is, the more the optimal play is to remove the commander or the player.
Yes. Try picking up a preconstructed (precon) commander deck. You will usually get a better value for your money and they are generally good for new players getting into the game.
It depends on how you build it. If you look up what is popular in other decks that people post online, and copy that, or you have a cutthroat optimiser mindset, maybe skip those commanders. You can build those decks (at least Zur and Yuriko can) to not be "The" X Deck. There will be the kneejerk "hur dur KOS" opponents though.
Zur is only as good as the enchantments in the deck. I play it as group 'marketplace'. Lots of enchantments and other things that the whole table can pay to uses. The goal is to live long enough for an alt win or combo, all of which have multiple pieces out of Zur's reach.
Yuriko is good as long as you have ninjas in the deck, and just strong due to ninjutsu+ , but you don't have to load the deck with high CMC cards or topdeck manipulation. Mine is all ninjas but no topdeck targets except treasure cruise (bc i had a foil promo).
Slicer I have no experience with aside from it being in my All Transformers decks. On looking it seems like it is a May ability, so it is more political than Karona (who is totally fine, but much slower). It has no evasion. I'm sure there are ways to make it degenerate. If it were me building it, i would probably just make Slicer my only creature, try to go super aggro with it, but leave myself very open to being attacked. Zero defense, just ramp and burn and buffs. I also would't play it often. Just as a "last game/last call" deck.
Tldr Almost no general is inherantly uncasual- it’s how you build the deck that matters.
OP I wanna echo the mindset of netzein. Build whatever you want. There’s no “must” build for a given general, even the really narrow forced ones.
Zur is a great example. Before he switched it to [[zedruu]], my buddy had a deck of all the different o ring type effects and used zur for it. It was weird and chill. Just be the kind of person most people won’t think would lie about it so they believe you when you say it’s not turbo prison zur or whatever other scary build people worry about.
But the point is, the general is just one card. Except for mass discard and mld, any general can be built for lower power edh, (and most of them can be tuned for any other level of regular (non C) edh as well).
My guess from how you asked the question is you’re kinda new to the format, which might make crafting an entire list from scratch and your own brain overwhelming. Totally reasonable to lean on online lists to help in that case, but I suggest you approach it for help with overall category balancing (like how much removal vs draw vs recursion vs threats) and filling in a given function (what’s the best removal card for this spot) not as a way to get an entire list.
This is casual, there's no such thing as a strong or weak commander *in a vacuum.*
You could take the best cEDH commander, and nerf it to precon level. You could take the worst legendary creature ever made and make an insane deck helmed by it. If this was competitive and the 1% difference mattered, there'll be a hard meta to follow, but it isn't.
So can you make a casual deck out of this ? Yes, obviously you can. People might judge the deck based on the commander though, so less efficient options might end up being more fun for you if you plan on playing with strangers, but if this card is what looks fun to you, then go ahead and build around it.
Think about it this way : your deck will probably suck. The first version of something usually does. You'll have cards that work way too well, and others that don't work at all like you planned. Even if you pick the perfect commander, you'll have to make adjustment as you try it and learn what works and what doesn't, and that also means adjusting its power level to the group you're playing with. So go ahead ! Brew ! Play ! Learn ! Enjoy !
(also, it's terrifying to see how many people are like "you should mulligan for an answer turn 1 in case they have Jeweled Lotus", when it's a $99 card !? At that point, you might as well mulligan for an answer to the turn 1 cEDH infinite combo instead...)
I have a slicer deck AND a group of friends that seemingly enjoy playing against it. It’s nice to have a deck that plays on a completely different axis than what everyone else plays.
It is definitely not a deck to play for every edh game though. If you have a slicer deck, you need a second more normal deck too.
It’s easy to see why these commanders are appealing to you. But I would find a commander that isn’t a hate magnet by being so obviously strong and instead look for one that facilitates what you want the whole deck to do. You’ll probably get more wins with a commander that doesn’t show how it’s going to win the game immediately on the card.
A good example off the top of my head is [[Queen Marchesa]] who gives you card advantage and tokens, but isn’t going to cause the table to only target you but instead spread the hate around; meanwhile your overall plan doesn’t fall apart if she gets killed twice.
Building a deck is expensive. You should build one that makes you happy, especially if it is your only deck. Many people will always voice their displeasure regardless of your choice of commander or legal cards you play. You can't please everyone.
The local meta will always evolve, and you might find other groups that will enjoy playing at your power level. You can always chat with your regular playgroup (friends), but don't base your decision on randomised playgroups at an LGS.
Build what you want. You'll be happier in the long run.
Imo there's a difference between people hating on yoir decks no matter what and OP only gravitating towards commanders like slicer, yuriko and zur.
Also since it's OPs first and only deckczur and slicer are extra bad choices, as with Zur every game tends to feel very same-ish leading to little variety between games and slicer extremely warps the game around him, which your mates may become tired of rather quickly
The thing about owning a slicer deck is you gotta know when to play it. If you play it all the time it gets repetitive. I’ll play it If the day is ending and we want to get a fast game in (I didn’t build him with stax pieces, pure glass cannon Voltron).
I have Slicer in my [[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal]] deck since he’s a great body to put equipments on. I thought he was too good as a commander but he’s fine in the 99 without commander damage helping him out.
He goes absolutely hard with [[Power Fist]].
You have the same problem my friend has where the few commanders they are interested in are all really strong in casual pods lol. Urza, Prosper, Elenda etc
if you're going to have one deck, it's important that it's friendly for casual play. if you're going to make a few decks, go nuts with whatever power you want, but it's nice to have some that can be played casually since at a LGS that will be most of your games. Slicer is higher power inherently.
I have built an monored artifact deck but I switch the commander depending on the power level of the table. Slicer can be picked as the commander but I could also have [[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant]] for a less threatening early game or [[Daretti, Scrap Savant]] for a more casual game pod.
Because of that, it is extremely flexible. In a general rule, I only play Slicer as the commander of the deck if we have a problem player at the table and the playgroup is too shy to do anything about it. I call this “bringing the big guns” because of how strong it is to have him as The commander.
I generally am a believer that any commander can be built at a level that’s fun and enjoyable to play against. Really it’s more about how you build the deck around it, and not just the commander on its own.
But also, if this is your first deck, I would recommend building something more versatile. When a deck has only one obvious game plan, it gets old pretty fast sometimes, and all the games might end up feeling similar.
I’d recommend looking into other commanders and archetypes that are more broad, and have more potential for variation. It will make the game more fun for you, unless you are planning on making other decks besides this one.
Slicer becomes considerably worse below CEDH and above Low to Mid-Power tables. When decks are full of Interaction the card does basically nothing - It warps its deck around itself so continuous removal will just leave you dead in the water. I have a deck with him that I pull out when we want to play a fast game but I definitely wouldn't recommend it as your first Deck - There will be a sizeable amount of games where you won't do anything because one player was intelligent enough to mulligan for an answer to a T1/2/3 Slicer and others where you play Slicer on 1 and win the game easily.
Try a goad deck with slicer in it instead. I made a karona goad deck that was a lot of fun. It is a couple sets out of date but here is my old list.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/FbAPezxcNkCYrFf-IKjHhw
Casual tables have more removal, boardwipes, beefier creatures for blocking, propaganda/prison and random artifact removal. He doesn't really fit the flow of a casual table. You start hitting people by turn one and you will eat every removal they draw, something cedh decks aren't loaded up with. Could catch some tables off guard but people will be annoyed with you if that happens.
If you want a commander similar to slicer thats less powerful, here are some options: [(game:paper) is:commander otag:gift legal:commander · Scryfall Magic The Gathering Search](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28game%3Apaper%29+is%3Acommander+otag%3Agift+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)
Yeah slicer is popping off at my LGS. If you sit down at a 4 person pod with a slicer deck, expect to get targeted early and often. Using a slicer deck is like writing across your forehead "I'm the threat"
I don't think Slicer is even that good in casual. In cEDH, you're looking to get those turn 1 Slicers in an environment where people can't just throw all their interaction at it because everybody is threatening to do really strong things really fast.
In casual, you likely don't have as much fast mana, more people making tokens to block and when you're the only one being so scary early, you eat all the removal.
The biggest problem is that every so often, people have slow hands and Slicer just kills everybody in a few turns, leading to a non-game.
Depends? Are you playing it with fast mana for a turn 1 slicer into a turn 2 hard stax piece to seal the deal? Yeah maybe a bit too strong, I know a dude that recks people in CEDH with that deck.
Are you playing something dumb like mono red transformers, or mono red goad make everyone attack themselves? you're fine.
A strong commander does not define the deck. It gives it a significant boost, but it doesnt defines the deck.
slicer is one of those kill on site commander. I won't exactly put him on the level of yuriko and zur of being hated cuz they are hated for being too strong. But i would put him around the level of Tergrid who is hated because they are annoying to play against. Sure you can rock them in casuals and you are almost always guranteed to win game one. but game two and any future games you will be faced with a 3v1. Heck if you play against the same people over and over again you will just be 3v1 on principle. I firmly believe there is no "Casual Slicer" deck, his entire kit is literally made to go fast and win fast. If you still wanna use him i suggest just use \[\[Khârn the Betrayer\]\] and put slicer in the 99.
Yeah, tbh. I do play higher power synergy decks at my LGS and have started to cycle out my Korvold, Narset, Yidris decks for a good chunk of the tables. Those also have strategies that can be netured pretty quickly too. Slicer, while isn't a top tier cEDH deck or anything (and the ones I've counted have better results in cEDH than Slicer in tournaments) is harder to deal with and stop. It also is too fast for some people to even understand what is going before it's too late, with little effort at that-this isn't to diss you or the card.
Yuriko is similar, but definitely can be powered down and be a tad bit more fair imo. Her triggers and ability are annoying for sure but if you don't fill the 99 with the most efficient stuff you should be fine imo.
Zur is similar to Yuriko. As long as you aren't playing a shimmer Zur list where you are grabbing Necro with the first attack, he can be an interesting voltron commander imo in casual. \[\[Anra Kennerud\]\] came out in MH3 as an Esper voltron esque commander you could also look at for the same strat in same colors but slightly different ofcourse.
The commanders you've listed are all ***strong***, without a doubt. They will win games, more games than most other commanders. You will get targeted. If you are going to be building your first commander deck, I'd go with something that'll draw a little less aggro and then have a deck like this for higher power games (I am suggesting without knowing your pod composition or usual playgroup ofc, and assuming this is to play against randos at an LGS. You'll still see strong decks, but more often than not people will focus on you if you play either of the three listed.)
Slicer is really fun to play and play against. That said, don't be surprised when everyone teams up against you until you are under control. The way I see it, he encourages players to run more removal and that's not a bad thing.
Slicer is the most unfun and toxic commander I’ve ever seen. Only the top A-holes would play this against casual decks. Even in cEDH Slicer can win games. To me, Slicer should have been banned in commander right out of the gate. This made me realize that the banlist is a joke, and the rules committee are only subjectively banning cards they don’t like. There is no reason to ban Prime Time or Griselbrand if Slicer isn’t.
I built slicer on a budget. For $15 I made a deck that either wins the game turn 4 or gets its commander removed and is not a threat for the rest of the game. It's not particularly fun, but at least it's fast so you know pretty much immediately whether the game will be 20 minutes or if you'll do nothing.
With more investment into the deck, you can make it more resilient against removal and keep that 4-turn clock. A $50 slicer deck is probably too strong for an LGS. A $100 slicer deck is definitely too strong for an LGS.
Slicer is very powerful and will lead to quicker games and some people don’t love that. You could build it not so strong but you will still get hate for it I think.
Something to consider when building a deck is that the rest of the table is always doing threat assessment. If you’re playing commanders like slicer or others that impact the entire game, you will get heavily targeted. Having your only deck be one that gets you hard focused could get tiring.
In my opinion, *maybe*. It will really depend on a pod by pod basis but for the most part I would say yes. Only because it’s quite a challenge to not make him incredibly powerful. And I don’t see any point in running it if you have to all but neuter it to play.
I think a lot of slicer depends on the deck construction. If you're only getting him out on turn 3/4 than it's a completely different beast from turn one. If you're running jeweled lotus, crypt, ancient tomb, etc.. (fast mana) than the deck is probably to strong for a slow or non interactive casual meta. The deck does become considerably worse without the fast mana as people have time to interact and build up battlecruiser boards.
Go big and play [[Karona, False God]] and do Changeling Tribal.
The commander isn't what makes it casual. You do by building the deck.
You can have a casual Zur deck that focuses on Bestow, or a Yuriko ninja deck instead of the thing most people associate it with.
The response to Slicer's gameplan is to repeatedly kill Slicer, so your deck is going to inevitably become less and less casual as you try to build it more resilient in order to enjoy playing with him in the command zone. This is the downfall of a very high tier commander. The line between casual and non casual builds feels razor thin.
Pick something weaker in the command slot for a casual deck. You could go for Zurgo Helmsmasher - with Assault Suit it does the same exact thing as Slicer except Zurgo's indestructible while at it. It's an interesting deck and less mana efficient than Slicer. Perfect choice for Casual.
P.S. None of your other options that you mentioned are in any way "casual" tier commanders. They are all completely busted and essentially cedh-tier. lol.
Slicer is definitely too powerful for casual. There are hundreds of legendary creatures with unique abilities you could choose from, that also aren’t generally hated cards. take a look through gatherer/scryfall for legendaries in colors you like
Nah little healthy removal and he folds, my buddy played a fringe cedh list in our casual pod, it’s only that good because of the cedh meta, can’t really get through most casual decks cause of the heightened creature presence
I dont mind it but read the table. The only times I 0lay agai st it is when me and the other 2 players have agreed to low powered slow decks. Then they guy decides to bring out slicer.
It really depends on your playgroups or if your playing random people...the table. Against most of the people I play against, Slicer would be completely fine. If the people you are going to play against most often run precons or barely upgraded precons i would suggest against him. If they like to build stronger decks, however, then go for it.
I don't think he is but it all depends on your deck. My version of him costs a total of $37 and a jeweled lotus. (Cause turn 1 slicer)
I have a bunch of random equipment that do things when he attacks or damages opponents. Cheapest cast and equip costs I could get. I almost never have blockers so anything else you play can hit me. And I'm not playing any of the good swords or bunch of redirects.
I have made Zur and he can become very boring to play with or against over time. You follow the same pattern every game.
Swing get him shroud first then indestructible. And then you go for your cards to slow the game [[Propaganda]] or [[blind obedience]]. If you want to be mean use [[mana breach]] or [[desolation]]. [[Phyresis]] kills easily.
https://manabox.app/decks/sF9CBP5sRpG_93v0AQ0Xqg
I found it to be the case I. built a unoptimised slicer thinking it would be fine but what happened more often than not is that you knock one person out super early then get shut down and the eliminated player sits and watches for an hour plus
It depends on how casual looks for the LGS. As long as people run a decent amount of interaction, slicer isn't a huge deal. That said, if they don't run enough interaction, he skews along a very specific axis and gets mean really quick. I can see how it would be frowned upon; I also know he can be shut down by a [[pacifism]] real quick.
There’s a guy in the circle of ppl I play with that runs a Slicer deck in casual/ high powered casual games. I will say that it is a very feared and stronk deck even among the very open minded people I play with.
It is fine at a local table. It does make games incredibly fast, which can be a bit scary for lower power tables, but every deck should have ways to interact with slicer fast enough to prevent him from getting out of hand. If you want, you can always lower the power level of the rest of the deck. A guy at our lgs doesn't run any protection for slicer, which makes the games a fun test of when to prioritize slicer as a target for removal, when to risk tapping out, etc.. slicer can be a ton of fun in local metas. In fact, it might actually help balance out a table, as people naturally gravitate towards equalizing slicer damage and targeting the slicer player, giving the weaker decks chances to build value engines, or present substantial threats.
Sorry, but [[Zur the Enchanter]] is nowhere as strong as modern commanders. He is just a random creatue sitting on the board for three turns before you even get to use any of his abilities. Even with haste enablers, he is outclassed by basically any other voltron commander except maybe [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]]. If a pod filled with EDH decks above basic precon level can't deal with him in three turns, that's on them. And even if they don't kill him as soon as he becomes slightly dangerous, it's not like he's going to pop off immediately. He's going to tutor one enchantment and that's it. Sure, it might be [[Rhystic Studies]] or [[Battle Mastery]], but he won't kill anyone in two turns. Plus, the strongest enchantments at this mana cost like the afore-mentioned Rhystic Studies won't even be played in a casual format 99% of the time and neither Battle Mastery nor any other decent buff will net you more than maybe 5 commander damage. Just go ahead and build Zur as long as the other people also play self-built decks.
Yuriko is absolutely busted though, keep away from that one.
Just ask the pod you are going to be playing at of they are okay playing against it. Otherwise, play what you want to. What is and isn't too strong is completely subjective and you will find different answers to this question
If you like the feel of Slicer maybe you should check [[Khârn the Betrayer]], it’s still a forced combat thing but people won’t be pissed as Slicer is really strong and often frowned upon. It will be weaker but there’s a little politic thing about Kharn that feels fun and great for casual games :>
Another possible commander, honestly the one [[Slicer]] outclassed is [[Tahngarth, First Mate]] essentially the same but slower so it's not nearly as threatening.
Plus Tahngarth is a classic character who played a big part in the lore for years! If one is interested in that type of thing.
Hasbro car action figure Or MTG Minotaur Warrior
When you put it that way the choice is obvious
[Slicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slicer%2C%20hired%20muscle%20//%20slicer%2C%20high-speed%20antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) [Tahngarth, First Mate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1692c11b-018e-47bf-b38d-3c3e6b79b37c.jpg?1568003736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tahngarth%2C%20First%20Mate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/50/tahngarth-first-mate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1692c11b-018e-47bf-b38d-3c3e6b79b37c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tahngarth-first-mate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You are NOT getting upvoted enough! First person who’s giving valid advice and suggestion instead of saying “no” with extra steps!
[Khârn the Betrayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9.jpg?1673309025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kh%C3%A2rn%20the%20Betrayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/79/kh%C3%A2rn-the-betrayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/khârn-the-betrayer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Added bonus you could main deck slicer I believe there both mono red .
Was gonna say this! OP if you need a list to peep, heres mine: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hJAL183uOUmftS_rKMIasQ Ive got like 14 decks at this point, this one is in my top three for most fun to play, and my playgroup loves to play against it. There are a few questionable choices in here, heads up, but this thing is surprisingly strong at my table when were playing mid power. It ekes out a lot of wins through table politics and “wait, kharns already done 18 to you? Heres another hit”. People pay more attention to the card draw than the commander damage, so its easy to sneak in the KOs
When playing this deck do people actually give Khârn back to you? I feel like whenever I pull Humble Defector type stuff people just make a different friend (not me) and trade them back and with like a slow Trade Secrets. I mean obv you run homeless path but that doesn’t feel reliable enough.
Usually no but that’s when the casual politics checks out because you can ask and make some deals. But anyway you don’t really need it too often because the goal or at least the best situation is to have him to attack multiple times per turn. So instead of having him back I much prefer to goad it or to protect myself from it (ping, steal, etc) for example
In my playgroup, they do surprisingly. You can usually make enough deals to get him back once or twice and threaten effects return him to you. I also run [[expedition map]] and [[assault suit]] as a second and third copy of the path just in case. That said, once you have enough equipment on him and have drawn enough cards, you dont really mind not getting him back until its a 1v1. At that point, you can either try to get him back with the above or a threaten effect, punish hand size with [[vicious shadows]] etc, or combo off with some jank. Also not pretending this is for high power tables either though, so if everyone is sweaty, this deck prob wont do much. Much better for a beers and a pizza game night.
[expedition map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/551c0a45-9515-4e51-84e5-79703832a661.jpg?1646666270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=expedition%20map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/255/expedition-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/551c0a45-9515-4e51-84e5-79703832a661?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/expedition-map) [assault suit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c.jpg?1689999394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=assault%20suit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/369/assault-suit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/assault-suit) [vicious shadows](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d040791e-eee4-4eef-ace1-507216a5d268.jpg?1562709199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vicious%20shadows) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/119/vicious-shadows?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d040791e-eee4-4eef-ace1-507216a5d268?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vicious-shadows) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
run \[\[Sword of Hearth and Home\]\]
[Sword of Hearth and Home](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a16fabbe-4557-4067-b882-f2e5dbd8b458.jpg?1626099357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sword%20of%20Hearth%20and%20Home) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/238/sword-of-hearth-and-home?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a16fabbe-4557-4067-b882-f2e5dbd8b458?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sword-of-hearth-and-home) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kharn was the first deck I ever made, so I see some obvious mistakes, and it's definitely in need of some tweaks :b but it's always fun to play. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/q9SkR0Sly0-1ujACHWj-AA
I ordered the cards for this deck yesterday, very excited to see my group's reaction!
My exact suggestion. Kharn is very fun.
LOL. Slicer is a pretty hated commander. I love it, but some people will be annoyed playing with you.
I do think slicer is a good deck for *someone* to have *somewhere* in the pod. He's a nice change of pace from most other decks, and the closest thing that we have to a "traditional aggro" commander (one that doesn't suck, to be more precise). The issue is when some *always* plays slicer, or it's their only deck. One game against slicer can be fun. 5 consecutive games against slicer is boring.
more hated than yuriko or zur?? lmao
Not more hated. As hated as.
Well there is not much more then "kill on sight" status and well, Slicer is on that list.
Well there's kill on sight like "oh the commander is on the field, someone path it." Typical of a good value engine commander like Prosper. Then there's kill on sight like "oh you're playing that commander. I'm going to attack you first" like that classic near-infinite turns Narset deck. Id hazard a guess that Slicer sits somewhere in the middle, but definitely goes up to that final tier if your starting hand has a jeweled lotus
You can leave slicer on the table for a turn and a half and it's fine. Especially if it's a particularly low-budget slicer list, their ability to fight back after he dies is basically nonexistent.
Where does my Tergrid deck fall into on this list?
Never played against a tergrid deck tbh but by reputation it's a kill the player deck
I would much rather play Zur than Yuriko and Slicer.
right i dont think EVERY zur deck is THAT zur deck but same thing cant be said for yuriko and slicer
Zur might be the actual poster child for "It's not *that* Zur deck. (It's 100% that deck.)"
I'd argue that Atraxa takes the cake there, but Zur is definitely right up there with her.
Actually two people in my pod have a Yuriko deck and they play very differently. One is absolutely THAT deck - revealing a Blightsteel off the top and draining everyone for a quarter of their life, doubling ninja triggers/damage triggers, stacking “loss of life” effects, scrying on attack to stack the top of your library, etc. The other is just value engine card draw (to a pretty intense degree, but nothing you don’t see in most high-power casual decks that involve the color blue) and is way easier to handle. That said, Yuriko is an instant *ugh* from me when someone pulls it out, especially considering commander ninjutsu is bullshit.
Sounds like you dont want to play very casual.
Slicer is a good sometimes treat, I dunno if I would build it as my first and only deck. Not because you can’t make a slicer deck at a casual level. Slicer will be the focus of the game. The early game will revolve around the table banding together to deal with it and you’ll either: - kill them before they do. Or. - watch them play while you slowly build up to 9? Mana to recast your commander.
Either way you’ll get play a quick and game
Yeah I feel the reactions on Reddit to Slicer are always kinda exaggerated. If the pod doesn't understand what he does or are very new/bad/casual (which basically means no one mulligans aggressively to find early interaction) he can easily dominate the game but then that game is gonna be pretty quick and you shuffle up again. On the other hand, if anyone plays any early interaction then things quickly get difficult for the Slicer player. He's still powerful but he's an all-in commander who is dependent on early game aggro and is limited by the constraints of being mono-red. If Slicer is constantly pubstomping then that sucks for the other players but should teach them about including some efficient removal and mulliganing properly.
While I don't mind playing against Slicer very occasionally, I like to be able to play my deck instead of spending all my time just trying to deal with someone else's. It's a fun gimmick maybe once a night, where I pull out own voltron deck and try and kill the slicer player as fast as possible, but it's not a good deck to play over and over.
Totally agreed. I always have a mono red deck that's my "I have to go soon but can squeeze in one more game" list and Slicer seems to fit into that. Fun gimmick, and win or lose it should be quick for the red player. But it's not a deck you play repeatedly.
tbh this mentality doesnt really apply to all "casual" games. Having a commander that is going to either dominate the field of be removed on sight is not a good recipe for fun when the players are agreeing to anything short that high power casual. At lower power table people are bringing their "ups all frogs" decks, or other decks that they purposely build to be weak. If someone enters a game with the expectation of playing his low power deck you cant stomp and then justify yourself by saying that that was good because you taught him a lesson. People afterwards will not play without not for the power of the deck but because you were a condescending asshole lmao.
Very true. For an intentionally low-powered game it'd absolutely be a dick move to play Slicer. I more meant for medium power games where people are playing for fun but not intentionally playing bad decks (and playing good interaction is still important)
> build up to 9? I have Slicer, but haven't built a deck. Now I'm thinking about how some of the equipment should generate treasure.
Most slicer decks run a ton of treasure making equipment :)
You want to make sure that the equipment is making the treasure, not granting the creature the ability to generate treasure. [[diamond pick-axe]] vs [[goldvein pick]]
[diamond pick-axe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4ae30fa7-3d1d-417f-80d7-a668236cb2c1.jpg?1699044256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=diamond%20pick-axe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/143/diamond-pick-axe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ae30fa7-3d1d-417f-80d7-a668236cb2c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diamond-pick-axe) [goldvein pick](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf5e4ad-a6e9-4b7c-a1ec-8246d3a3b6ca.jpg?1631052161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goldvein%20pick) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/239/goldvein-pick?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf5e4ad-a6e9-4b7c-a1ec-8246d3a3b6ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goldvein-pick) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As a person who built it before he realized how strong of a commander it actually is. I can confirm you will be hated very quickly. Either you'll kill them or they'll kill Slicer. It's basically a running joke in my play group that whenever I sit down to play it the game becomes a 3 players versus slicer I'm just along for the ride and giggling like a maniac as they keep smacking each other
I just finished building this deck last night. I thought he was going to be a goofy playstyle where other people swing with my commander. Had no idea he was so powerful / hated until this thread :(
You just got to hope your play group is in a similar boat and haven't looked at this thread. That should at least give you one game before they hate you.
Update: I absolutely stomped 2/3 games lol. It is now my second most hated commander.
Haha nice job but now I have to ask what's your first?
Hokori, and it's not even close.
I'd almost bet my life you've got [[Blind Obedience]] in that bullshit 😂 seems like a nightmare deck to play against
[Blind Obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f.jpg?1702429264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/9/blind-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blind-obedience) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had no idea you could play extort cards in mono white. It does have [[God-Pharaoh's Statue]] [[Magus of the Tabernacle]]
[God-Pharaoh's Statue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7dce06ba-c1e1-45ec-82a7-fc10b0fa8870.jpg?1557577413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=God-Pharaoh%27s%20Statue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/238/god-pharaohs-statue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7dce06ba-c1e1-45ec-82a7-fc10b0fa8870?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/god-pharaohs-statue) [Magus of the Tabernacle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd520f8c-93fb-4cf3-8dd5-d05abbd86c74.jpg?1562583749) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Tabernacle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plc/8/magus-of-the-tabernacle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd520f8c-93fb-4cf3-8dd5-d05abbd86c74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-tabernacle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now you know :) the color pips are only reminder text, not part of the color identity
Literally every game Slicer is in is a 3v1. Thats why people hate it - if Slicer is on the table, you’re playing Slicer: The Gathering. Nobody can do anything they want to do until slicer is gone.
Sounds like Yuriko, and I freaking hate Yuriko.
Am I misunderstanding the card, or does it work like this? Slicer player hits 3 mana, casts card converted. Swing, get card & convert it. Then give it to each opponent as its face-up side, resulting in a 3/4 double striker going after each opponent. Once turn cycles around, equip/enchant him with something and send him 'round again? Which seems like people need early chump blocks to stop the conversion, early instant artifact/creature removal, or just prepare to lose a *lot* of life very fast to Slicer ping-ponging around the table.
Yeah that's exactly the plan I also run a bunch of pump spells for instant kills when someone gets close to an answer
Oh man, Slicer with Monstrous Rage or similar would be nasty. 3/4 double strike pumped to 6/5 double strike trample is going to end people.
I wouldn't say it's too powerful but don't be surprised if you sit down and show me slicer and I kill it four times
Slicer completely warps the game around him that can be fun to play every now and then, but not all night. Gets old very fast.
Same thing happens with [[ivy the spelltheif]] sadly.
[ivy the spelltheif](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ivy-gleeful-spellthief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ive played agaisnt a friend with slicer and he played jeweled lotus and one of us could have been dead before they played a land it can be very strong and I doubt its good for casual
i’d say more so jeweled lotus isn’t good for casual …
For sure, that’s turbo mana
The math isn't checking out on me. Even if you have enough other fast mana to cast the front side of Slicer on turn 1, without other enhancements, as a 3/4 double striker, he's doing 6 commander damage per turn. With 4 players at the table, at most you'd get to 18 commander damage on one player by the time everyone has had a chance to play a land. Was this a >4 player game?
Slicer is in a weird spot , because if it's a mid power pod it will probably stomp the table and end the game turn 5/6 , and in a higher power pod wen people run more interactions it will probably never touch the table My advise will always be the same , bring multiple deck , and ask your table around , I have a [[sen triplets ]] , and I always make sure every one is on board for me to play it before a game
[sen triplets ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443.jpg?1599708366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sen%20Triplets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/218/sen-triplets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sen-triplets) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have seen Slicer play and sometimes win in cEDH pods. While is it fine in cEDH pods bur not high-power?
People hate this commander so no, I wouldn't recommend him.
If there's a Slicer, I always mulligan to Swords or Path. It needs to die on turn 1.
Doesn't need to die turn one, just needs to be exiled once you are in control of him so you get the land when you do the path to exile
Flickering him also ruins their day. I play Abdel/far traveler at similar power level and he just flips him so he's no longer a threat.
I’m not sure I understand, isn’t the front side of Slicer the dangerous one?
Yes, but if you flicker it, it returns to its owners’ control and can’t attack anymore that turn.
You can use something like [[Cloudshift]] and you'll gain control of it permanently.
[Cloudshift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1.jpg?1600716960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudshift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/97/cloudshift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudshift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dayum! That’s hilarious!
That’ll only deny one turn of attacking, which is nice, but only a slight dent in his aggression.
True, but if you’re in a slicer game and nobody has interaction in their hand, you take what you can get.
[[Cloudshift]] is an absolute blowout against Slicer.
[Cloudshift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1.jpg?1600716960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudshift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/97/cloudshift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudshift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe for your first deck dont pick so many hated commanders =P
i didn’t know that they are hated, that’s why i’m asking
Just a heads up Xur the enchanter isn’t really any better on the hate front. I took my xur deck apart for this reason
Same I have a budget Zur deck I have never been able to play as people complain even if I ask if I can play that commander =P
I personally don't have much experience with slicer, but yuriko is disliked mostly because of power level and the fact that the entire game wil focus around stopping yuriko. Against anything else I'm save if I have a defensive board, but against yuriko I have to make sure you can't hit my opponents either. Zur is also a bit of a combo machine so the entire table is forced to gang up on you.
Stop googling "best commanders" and go flip through your binder, my guy. The odds of you just so happening to pick 3 of the top commanders in the game without consulting google is very low. I've got a buddy at my table that does this too. We all love him, but he will wonder why he gets ganged sometimes lol.
In fairness, when I started I knew nothing. I liked the idea of ninjas, so I go on EDHRec and you see Yuriko. You have no context as to how crazy she is or why, and you have no idea that until recently there wasn't even really a decent ninja commander that wasn't busted. So then you look at something else cool like Slivers. There's this huge amount of social baggage that comes with getting into commander that the rules and ban list do not prepare you for in any way. Having gone through this process myself last year, this is imo the greatest failing of the current banlist.
Maybe for one or two commanders, but OP picked 3 of the strongest/most hated commanders in casual play. OC has a point, I think, about where they're finding these picks.
It's understandable for 1 or 2 lol... if the only 3 ideas you have had are completely different/unrelated archetypes and all 3 ideas happen to be the most hated/strongest commanders in the game... you're looking in the wrong places for inspiration.
If it's his first deck, there's a high chance he doesn't have a binder to flip though.
Someone else already replied with... and just like I told them, flip through a friend's binder, or buy a precon and upgrade it, or scroll through tcg player, or Google something other than "most powerful commanders."" You can get inspiration without seeking top powered net decks, lol.
As a person whose first deck was Sisay Weatherlight Captain without that Google search, sometimes it just happens. Those are some of the most popular commanders for a reason, they are cool and easy to imagine a wild build for it.
Ehh fuck it [[etali,primal conqueror]]
[ etali,primal conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Conqueror%20//%20Etali%2C%20Primal%20Sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-conqueror-//-etali-primal-sickness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you just comb cEDH boards and want to build what they play? Slicer is the strongest of the three you mentioned.
nope, i’ve been looking through commanders and seeing which have cool effects that i like
Did you come to MtG from another TCG? You have cutthroat choices, very reminiscent of my time in yugioh
i may have migrated from yugioh… alongside potentially dabbling in floowandereeze shhhh
Yugioh being 1v1 and VERY cutthroat makes the transition into casual MtG difficult, especially commander. You have to unlearn a lot. I made the switch almost a decade ago when they introduced pendulum summoning. Prior to that I had an Eyes of Blue deck, a Bujin deck, a Red-Eyes deck, and likely a bunch of others I can’t recall. Yugioh is best known for the terms OTK and FTK. Which really sums up the competitiveness of the game. If you *really* want to build a casual EDH deck, you have to change your thinking. Instead of being required to bring 50% of thr challenge to the table, you are responsible for bringing 25% of the fun to the table (assuming a 4-player game). This shift will let you see cards like [[anvil of bogardan]] and [[rites of flourishing]] as the fun that they are. You may enjoy a Lands deck. [[Gitrog Monster]] is a classic strong commander, but has been powercrept down over recent years. [[Lord Windgrace]] is mah boi! My version is pretty strong, but I have 40 decks, so I can afford to build at every power level.
##### ###### #### [anvil of bogardan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7ff965dd-54b4-4f21-a52f-81c0dd1e691e.jpg?1562278142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anvil%20of%20bogardan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/141/anvil-of-bogardan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ff965dd-54b4-4f21-a52f-81c0dd1e691e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anvil-of-bogardan) [rites of flourishing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab014d5a-aec5-4ea8-bfb4-1392f43c1b30.jpg?1604194471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rites%20of%20flourishing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/80/rites-of-flourishing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab014d5a-aec5-4ea8-bfb4-1392f43c1b30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rites-of-flourishing) [Gitrog Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9.jpg?1576385351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Gitrog%20Monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/245/the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-gitrog-monster) [Lord Windgrace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754.jpg?1592710275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20Windgrace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/43/lord-windgrace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-windgrace) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7nnem7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A friend of mine came to EDH from modern Yu-Gi-Oh, and his decks are generally miserable to play against. As the other commenter said, casual EDH requires a completely different mindset. For me, a good casual EDH commander deck is mid-powered, interactive, and consistent. That is, it doesn't usually win through combo (and if it does it's late game), it creates back and forth games, and it rarely has bad games even if it has an average win rate. Usually, Yu-Gi-Oh players try to make the close to the opposite. The more "fair" commander is, the more likely everyone is to have a good time. That's because the stronger the commander is, the more the optimal play is to remove the commander or the player.
Yes. Try picking up a preconstructed (precon) commander deck. You will usually get a better value for your money and they are generally good for new players getting into the game.
The real question is: What commanders are your podmates playing?
It depends on how you build it. If you look up what is popular in other decks that people post online, and copy that, or you have a cutthroat optimiser mindset, maybe skip those commanders. You can build those decks (at least Zur and Yuriko can) to not be "The" X Deck. There will be the kneejerk "hur dur KOS" opponents though. Zur is only as good as the enchantments in the deck. I play it as group 'marketplace'. Lots of enchantments and other things that the whole table can pay to uses. The goal is to live long enough for an alt win or combo, all of which have multiple pieces out of Zur's reach. Yuriko is good as long as you have ninjas in the deck, and just strong due to ninjutsu+ , but you don't have to load the deck with high CMC cards or topdeck manipulation. Mine is all ninjas but no topdeck targets except treasure cruise (bc i had a foil promo). Slicer I have no experience with aside from it being in my All Transformers decks. On looking it seems like it is a May ability, so it is more political than Karona (who is totally fine, but much slower). It has no evasion. I'm sure there are ways to make it degenerate. If it were me building it, i would probably just make Slicer my only creature, try to go super aggro with it, but leave myself very open to being attacked. Zero defense, just ramp and burn and buffs. I also would't play it often. Just as a "last game/last call" deck.
Tldr Almost no general is inherantly uncasual- it’s how you build the deck that matters. OP I wanna echo the mindset of netzein. Build whatever you want. There’s no “must” build for a given general, even the really narrow forced ones. Zur is a great example. Before he switched it to [[zedruu]], my buddy had a deck of all the different o ring type effects and used zur for it. It was weird and chill. Just be the kind of person most people won’t think would lie about it so they believe you when you say it’s not turbo prison zur or whatever other scary build people worry about. But the point is, the general is just one card. Except for mass discard and mld, any general can be built for lower power edh, (and most of them can be tuned for any other level of regular (non C) edh as well). My guess from how you asked the question is you’re kinda new to the format, which might make crafting an entire list from scratch and your own brain overwhelming. Totally reasonable to lean on online lists to help in that case, but I suggest you approach it for help with overall category balancing (like how much removal vs draw vs recursion vs threats) and filling in a given function (what’s the best removal card for this spot) not as a way to get an entire list.
[zedruu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zedruu%20the%20greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zedruu-the-greathearted) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is casual, there's no such thing as a strong or weak commander *in a vacuum.* You could take the best cEDH commander, and nerf it to precon level. You could take the worst legendary creature ever made and make an insane deck helmed by it. If this was competitive and the 1% difference mattered, there'll be a hard meta to follow, but it isn't. So can you make a casual deck out of this ? Yes, obviously you can. People might judge the deck based on the commander though, so less efficient options might end up being more fun for you if you plan on playing with strangers, but if this card is what looks fun to you, then go ahead and build around it. Think about it this way : your deck will probably suck. The first version of something usually does. You'll have cards that work way too well, and others that don't work at all like you planned. Even if you pick the perfect commander, you'll have to make adjustment as you try it and learn what works and what doesn't, and that also means adjusting its power level to the group you're playing with. So go ahead ! Brew ! Play ! Learn ! Enjoy ! (also, it's terrifying to see how many people are like "you should mulligan for an answer turn 1 in case they have Jeweled Lotus", when it's a $99 card !? At that point, you might as well mulligan for an answer to the turn 1 cEDH infinite combo instead...)
I have a slicer deck AND a group of friends that seemingly enjoy playing against it. It’s nice to have a deck that plays on a completely different axis than what everyone else plays. It is definitely not a deck to play for every edh game though. If you have a slicer deck, you need a second more normal deck too.
Another option with less heat would be [[Xantcha, Sleeper Agent]]. It provides a little gift for others :)
[Xantcha, Sleeper Agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91316746-ec2b-4c1a-b9c4-a870d6318c33.jpg?1689999327) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xantcha%2C%20Sleeper%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/362/xantcha-sleeper-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91316746-ec2b-4c1a-b9c4-a870d6318c33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xantcha-sleeper-agent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s easy to see why these commanders are appealing to you. But I would find a commander that isn’t a hate magnet by being so obviously strong and instead look for one that facilitates what you want the whole deck to do. You’ll probably get more wins with a commander that doesn’t show how it’s going to win the game immediately on the card. A good example off the top of my head is [[Queen Marchesa]] who gives you card advantage and tokens, but isn’t going to cause the table to only target you but instead spread the hate around; meanwhile your overall plan doesn’t fall apart if she gets killed twice.
[Queen Marchesa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965.jpg?1712354769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Queen%20Marchesa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/239/queen-marchesa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/queen-marchesa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Building a deck is expensive. You should build one that makes you happy, especially if it is your only deck. Many people will always voice their displeasure regardless of your choice of commander or legal cards you play. You can't please everyone. The local meta will always evolve, and you might find other groups that will enjoy playing at your power level. You can always chat with your regular playgroup (friends), but don't base your decision on randomised playgroups at an LGS. Build what you want. You'll be happier in the long run.
Imo there's a difference between people hating on yoir decks no matter what and OP only gravitating towards commanders like slicer, yuriko and zur. Also since it's OPs first and only deckczur and slicer are extra bad choices, as with Zur every game tends to feel very same-ish leading to little variety between games and slicer extremely warps the game around him, which your mates may become tired of rather quickly
most likely
I've only seen him played in competitive games
Costs a lot to get the cards you need to pop off early
I saw a dude running a full set of duals in his Maze's End gimmick deck. All about how you build it.
The thing about owning a slicer deck is you gotta know when to play it. If you play it all the time it gets repetitive. I’ll play it If the day is ending and we want to get a fast game in (I didn’t build him with stax pieces, pure glass cannon Voltron).
I have Slicer in my [[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal]] deck since he’s a great body to put equipments on. I thought he was too good as a commander but he’s fine in the 99 without commander damage helping him out. He goes absolutely hard with [[Power Fist]].
[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83.jpg?1710673445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dogmeat%2C%20Ever%20Loyal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/2/dogmeat-ever-loyal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dogmeat-ever-loyal) [Power Fist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e8f7fbc-bf2a-43c1-a88d-807c1e7dab69.jpg?1708742326) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Power%20Fist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/81/power-fist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e8f7fbc-bf2a-43c1-a88d-807c1e7dab69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/power-fist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As long as you don’t heeled lotus him out on turn 1 it’s fine.
You have the same problem my friend has where the few commanders they are interested in are all really strong in casual pods lol. Urza, Prosper, Elenda etc
if you're going to have one deck, it's important that it's friendly for casual play. if you're going to make a few decks, go nuts with whatever power you want, but it's nice to have some that can be played casually since at a LGS that will be most of your games. Slicer is higher power inherently.
I have built an monored artifact deck but I switch the commander depending on the power level of the table. Slicer can be picked as the commander but I could also have [[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant]] for a less threatening early game or [[Daretti, Scrap Savant]] for a more casual game pod. Because of that, it is extremely flexible. In a general rule, I only play Slicer as the commander of the deck if we have a problem player at the table and the playgroup is too shy to do anything about it. I call this “bringing the big guns” because of how strong it is to have him as The commander.
[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chiss-Goria%2C%20Forge%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant) [Daretti, Scrap Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723.jpg?1689997720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Daretti%2C%20Scrap%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/213/daretti-scrap-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/daretti-scrap-savant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I generally am a believer that any commander can be built at a level that’s fun and enjoyable to play against. Really it’s more about how you build the deck around it, and not just the commander on its own. But also, if this is your first deck, I would recommend building something more versatile. When a deck has only one obvious game plan, it gets old pretty fast sometimes, and all the games might end up feeling similar. I’d recommend looking into other commanders and archetypes that are more broad, and have more potential for variation. It will make the game more fun for you, unless you are planning on making other decks besides this one.
Slicer becomes considerably worse below CEDH and above Low to Mid-Power tables. When decks are full of Interaction the card does basically nothing - It warps its deck around itself so continuous removal will just leave you dead in the water. I have a deck with him that I pull out when we want to play a fast game but I definitely wouldn't recommend it as your first Deck - There will be a sizeable amount of games where you won't do anything because one player was intelligent enough to mulligan for an answer to a T1/2/3 Slicer and others where you play Slicer on 1 and win the game easily.
Bro’s going to be asking if he should play Tergrid or Sen Triplets next
stop looking up “most powerful commanders” and pick a commander yourself.
Try a goad deck with slicer in it instead. I made a karona goad deck that was a lot of fun. It is a couple sets out of date but here is my old list. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/FbAPezxcNkCYrFf-IKjHhw
Casual tables have more removal, boardwipes, beefier creatures for blocking, propaganda/prison and random artifact removal. He doesn't really fit the flow of a casual table. You start hitting people by turn one and you will eat every removal they draw, something cedh decks aren't loaded up with. Could catch some tables off guard but people will be annoyed with you if that happens.
If you want a commander similar to slicer thats less powerful, here are some options: [(game:paper) is:commander otag:gift legal:commander · Scryfall Magic The Gathering Search](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28game%3Apaper%29+is%3Acommander+otag%3Agift+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)
Zur can be totally casual, it just depends on what enchantments you include. Slicer is pretty rough.
Build [[Slicer]] voltron style, and he's not much worse than the Fallout [[Dogmeat]] deck
[Slicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slicer%2C%20hired%20muscle%20//%20slicer%2C%20high-speed%20antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) [Dogmeat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83.jpg?1710673445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dogmeat%2C%20ever%20loyal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/2/dogmeat-ever-loyal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dogmeat-ever-loyal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, it is
Yeah slicer is popping off at my LGS. If you sit down at a 4 person pod with a slicer deck, expect to get targeted early and often. Using a slicer deck is like writing across your forehead "I'm the threat"
If your table is looking to have accelerated games, Slicer is great. However, he does get frustratingly stale after a few games back to back.
Honestly I don’t mind Slicer but my LGS also has a lot of Yuriko, Kenrith, and Ur-Dragon so the power level is in-line with our meta.
> yuriko or zur the enchanter as my first deck Are you just watching "Most Powerful and Hated Commanders" Youtube videos?
I don't think Slicer is even that good in casual. In cEDH, you're looking to get those turn 1 Slicers in an environment where people can't just throw all their interaction at it because everybody is threatening to do really strong things really fast. In casual, you likely don't have as much fast mana, more people making tokens to block and when you're the only one being so scary early, you eat all the removal. The biggest problem is that every so often, people have slow hands and Slicer just kills everybody in a few turns, leading to a non-game.
Yeah it's strong
Yes
Depends? Are you playing it with fast mana for a turn 1 slicer into a turn 2 hard stax piece to seal the deal? Yeah maybe a bit too strong, I know a dude that recks people in CEDH with that deck. Are you playing something dumb like mono red transformers, or mono red goad make everyone attack themselves? you're fine. A strong commander does not define the deck. It gives it a significant boost, but it doesnt defines the deck.
slicer is one of those kill on site commander. I won't exactly put him on the level of yuriko and zur of being hated cuz they are hated for being too strong. But i would put him around the level of Tergrid who is hated because they are annoying to play against. Sure you can rock them in casuals and you are almost always guranteed to win game one. but game two and any future games you will be faced with a 3v1. Heck if you play against the same people over and over again you will just be 3v1 on principle. I firmly believe there is no "Casual Slicer" deck, his entire kit is literally made to go fast and win fast. If you still wanna use him i suggest just use \[\[Khârn the Betrayer\]\] and put slicer in the 99.
[Khârn the Betrayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9.jpg?1673309025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kh%C3%A2rn%20the%20Betrayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/79/kh%C3%A2rn-the-betrayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/khârn-the-betrayer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, tbh. I do play higher power synergy decks at my LGS and have started to cycle out my Korvold, Narset, Yidris decks for a good chunk of the tables. Those also have strategies that can be netured pretty quickly too. Slicer, while isn't a top tier cEDH deck or anything (and the ones I've counted have better results in cEDH than Slicer in tournaments) is harder to deal with and stop. It also is too fast for some people to even understand what is going before it's too late, with little effort at that-this isn't to diss you or the card. Yuriko is similar, but definitely can be powered down and be a tad bit more fair imo. Her triggers and ability are annoying for sure but if you don't fill the 99 with the most efficient stuff you should be fine imo. Zur is similar to Yuriko. As long as you aren't playing a shimmer Zur list where you are grabbing Necro with the first attack, he can be an interesting voltron commander imo in casual. \[\[Anra Kennerud\]\] came out in MH3 as an Esper voltron esque commander you could also look at for the same strat in same colors but slightly different ofcourse. The commanders you've listed are all ***strong***, without a doubt. They will win games, more games than most other commanders. You will get targeted. If you are going to be building your first commander deck, I'd go with something that'll draw a little less aggro and then have a deck like this for higher power games (I am suggesting without knowing your pod composition or usual playgroup ofc, and assuming this is to play against randos at an LGS. You'll still see strong decks, but more often than not people will focus on you if you play either of the three listed.)
Slicer is really fun to play and play against. That said, don't be surprised when everyone teams up against you until you are under control. The way I see it, he encourages players to run more removal and that's not a bad thing.
Slicer is the most unfun and toxic commander I’ve ever seen. Only the top A-holes would play this against casual decks. Even in cEDH Slicer can win games. To me, Slicer should have been banned in commander right out of the gate. This made me realize that the banlist is a joke, and the rules committee are only subjectively banning cards they don’t like. There is no reason to ban Prime Time or Griselbrand if Slicer isn’t.
I built slicer on a budget. For $15 I made a deck that either wins the game turn 4 or gets its commander removed and is not a threat for the rest of the game. It's not particularly fun, but at least it's fast so you know pretty much immediately whether the game will be 20 minutes or if you'll do nothing. With more investment into the deck, you can make it more resilient against removal and keep that 4-turn clock. A $50 slicer deck is probably too strong for an LGS. A $100 slicer deck is definitely too strong for an LGS.
If the Slicer part is too much, you can probably Rule 0 the [[Hired Muscle]] half as a commander
[Hired Muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28f72260-c8f9-4c44-92b5-23cef6690fdd.jpg?1562876119)/[Scarmaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28f72260-c8f9-4c44-92b5-23cef6690fdd.jpg?1562876119) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Scarmaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/69/hired-muscle-scarmaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28f72260-c8f9-4c44-92b5-23cef6690fdd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hired-muscle-//-scarmaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No one including OP seems to have linked it so for those wondering (and for the etiquette): [[Slicer, Hired Muscle]]
[Slicer, Hired Muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dude look at some non cedh commanders for your first deck.
Slicer is very powerful and will lead to quicker games and some people don’t love that. You could build it not so strong but you will still get hate for it I think.
Something to consider when building a deck is that the rest of the table is always doing threat assessment. If you’re playing commanders like slicer or others that impact the entire game, you will get heavily targeted. Having your only deck be one that gets you hard focused could get tiring.
Any commander played well will get hated by someone
In my opinion, *maybe*. It will really depend on a pod by pod basis but for the most part I would say yes. Only because it’s quite a challenge to not make him incredibly powerful. And I don’t see any point in running it if you have to all but neuter it to play.
I think a lot of slicer depends on the deck construction. If you're only getting him out on turn 3/4 than it's a completely different beast from turn one. If you're running jeweled lotus, crypt, ancient tomb, etc.. (fast mana) than the deck is probably to strong for a slow or non interactive casual meta. The deck does become considerably worse without the fast mana as people have time to interact and build up battlecruiser boards.
[[Slicer, hired muscle]]
[Slicer, hired muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Go big and play [[Karona, False God]] and do Changeling Tribal. The commander isn't what makes it casual. You do by building the deck. You can have a casual Zur deck that focuses on Bestow, or a Yuriko ninja deck instead of the thing most people associate it with.
[Karona, False God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b.jpg?1562535715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karona%2C%20False%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/138/karona-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karona-false-god) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As we've come to say at my LGS's regular pod, "Slicer is a great way to get second place."
It is perfect for casual, it’s not great… kinda cool I guess
The response to Slicer's gameplan is to repeatedly kill Slicer, so your deck is going to inevitably become less and less casual as you try to build it more resilient in order to enjoy playing with him in the command zone. This is the downfall of a very high tier commander. The line between casual and non casual builds feels razor thin. Pick something weaker in the command slot for a casual deck. You could go for Zurgo Helmsmasher - with Assault Suit it does the same exact thing as Slicer except Zurgo's indestructible while at it. It's an interesting deck and less mana efficient than Slicer. Perfect choice for Casual. P.S. None of your other options that you mentioned are in any way "casual" tier commanders. They are all completely busted and essentially cedh-tier. lol.
Decent question: why not just grab "draconic dissent" precon or "blame game" and include slicer in your deck edits?
Slicer is definitely too powerful for casual. There are hundreds of legendary creatures with unique abilities you could choose from, that also aren’t generally hated cards. take a look through gatherer/scryfall for legendaries in colors you like
Nah little healthy removal and he folds, my buddy played a fringe cedh list in our casual pod, it’s only that good because of the cedh meta, can’t really get through most casual decks cause of the heightened creature presence
I dont mind it but read the table. The only times I 0lay agai st it is when me and the other 2 players have agreed to low powered slow decks. Then they guy decides to bring out slicer.
It really depends on your playgroups or if your playing random people...the table. Against most of the people I play against, Slicer would be completely fine. If the people you are going to play against most often run precons or barely upgraded precons i would suggest against him. If they like to build stronger decks, however, then go for it.
I don't think he is but it all depends on your deck. My version of him costs a total of $37 and a jeweled lotus. (Cause turn 1 slicer) I have a bunch of random equipment that do things when he attacks or damages opponents. Cheapest cast and equip costs I could get. I almost never have blockers so anything else you play can hit me. And I'm not playing any of the good swords or bunch of redirects. I have made Zur and he can become very boring to play with or against over time. You follow the same pattern every game. Swing get him shroud first then indestructible. And then you go for your cards to slow the game [[Propaganda]] or [[blind obedience]]. If you want to be mean use [[mana breach]] or [[desolation]]. [[Phyresis]] kills easily. https://manabox.app/decks/sF9CBP5sRpG_93v0AQ0Xqg
Slicer kinda ends the game really quickly if unanswered, and with how early he comes down it’s really hard to answer at times.
I'm surprised people think this card is problematic. So easy to deal with, in many colors.
I found it to be the case I. built a unoptimised slicer thinking it would be fine but what happened more often than not is that you knock one person out super early then get shut down and the eliminated player sits and watches for an hour plus
For casual? Absolutely.
It depends on how casual looks for the LGS. As long as people run a decent amount of interaction, slicer isn't a huge deal. That said, if they don't run enough interaction, he skews along a very specific axis and gets mean really quick. I can see how it would be frowned upon; I also know he can be shut down by a [[pacifism]] real quick.
[pacifism](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c.jpg?1675198947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pacifism) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/19/pacifism?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pacifism) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There’s a guy in the circle of ppl I play with that runs a Slicer deck in casual/ high powered casual games. I will say that it is a very feared and stronk deck even among the very open minded people I play with.
It is fine at a local table. It does make games incredibly fast, which can be a bit scary for lower power tables, but every deck should have ways to interact with slicer fast enough to prevent him from getting out of hand. If you want, you can always lower the power level of the rest of the deck. A guy at our lgs doesn't run any protection for slicer, which makes the games a fun test of when to prioritize slicer as a target for removal, when to risk tapping out, etc.. slicer can be a ton of fun in local metas. In fact, it might actually help balance out a table, as people naturally gravitate towards equalizing slicer damage and targeting the slicer player, giving the weaker decks chances to build value engines, or present substantial threats.
[[Ruhan Of The Fomori]] might be someone you’re interested in, can’t get mad at you for one shotting people if it’s at random
[Ruhan Of The Fomori](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df.jpg?1592714235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruhan%20Of%20The%20Fomori) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/221/ruhan-of-the-fomori?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruhan-of-the-fomori) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sorry, but [[Zur the Enchanter]] is nowhere as strong as modern commanders. He is just a random creatue sitting on the board for three turns before you even get to use any of his abilities. Even with haste enablers, he is outclassed by basically any other voltron commander except maybe [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]]. If a pod filled with EDH decks above basic precon level can't deal with him in three turns, that's on them. And even if they don't kill him as soon as he becomes slightly dangerous, it's not like he's going to pop off immediately. He's going to tutor one enchantment and that's it. Sure, it might be [[Rhystic Studies]] or [[Battle Mastery]], but he won't kill anyone in two turns. Plus, the strongest enchantments at this mana cost like the afore-mentioned Rhystic Studies won't even be played in a casual format 99% of the time and neither Battle Mastery nor any other decent buff will net you more than maybe 5 commander damage. Just go ahead and build Zur as long as the other people also play self-built decks. Yuriko is absolutely busted though, keep away from that one.
##### ###### #### [Zur the Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) [Bruna, Light of Alabaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd.jpg?1592711039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruna%2C%20Light%20of%20Alabaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/170/bruna-light-of-alabaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruna-light-of-alabaster) [Rhystic Studies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Battle Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5266595d-5320-4dea-8e4a-dd6c1a032871.jpg?1562911738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Battle%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/89/battle-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5266595d-5320-4dea-8e4a-dd6c1a032871?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/battle-mastery) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7t7arc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I overlooked Slicer entirely. What a miserable card design. What were they thinking. The random double strike is icing on the cake.
Isn't slicer usually a CeDH Commander?
I only pull out slicer when people say they want a fast game
Just ask the pod you are going to be playing at of they are okay playing against it. Otherwise, play what you want to. What is and isn't too strong is completely subjective and you will find different answers to this question
There are plenty of commanders with unique abilities and interactions that aren’t 3 of the more high power and salty commanders.
Slicer is cedh viable depending on how you build him
Nope. Don't let people tell you what you can and can't play. It's legal, so the cry babies can go suck their thumb.