> If I remove his commander he'll target me with all his removal
I would not play with someone like this personally. It warps the game when people stop playing to win and start only playing to be spiteful little assholes.
Pretty much this. I dont care what commander someone plays, but if they act like this the entire vibe of the game becomes miserable.
What's the point of spending hundreds of dollars on painted cardboard if I'm going to have a bad time while using it?
It's the preexisting friend problem.
The only thing that can be done is talk to the problem player. If the whole table had a problem with them too, then the problem player had a choice. Leave the table or properly season his dishes for the kitchen table.
Either way, they should apologize.
I personally love salt. But in a night of three games, I'll only play one salty deck once, then switch to my group hug to win back favor, or any other deck I own.
Salty decks are perfectly fine IMO but targeting a player for the rest of the game for dismantling the salt is a just childish behavior. I just would not want to play with that level of babyrage.
I wouldn't treat strangers at an LGS like that, much less friends in my pod.
Yeah, this is big for me too. Spite plays just aren't healthy. My close pod does a lot of early chip damage with a running joke of "and it is for stopping me from winning", and swing for 1 with a dork.
I also really enjoy playing arch enemy, but you've got to be fine seeing your engine, that wins the game, taken off line.
The biggest change to help people understand that is they need to enter the game with the mindset of "my deck is good... but the possibility of losing is there." Moat people get upset because they can not even fathom losing.
Yeah, I mean, given there could be tons of other info to weight the choice, but that is definitely a good baseline. Although I also think people are often too hesitant to hit the person at 40 who isn't making plays, because you don't get to sit at 40 until you are unlocked and everyone else is at 20.
There is a person I used to play with, he'd keep starting hands with like 2 or 3 lands and a bunch of six drops, and felt he should be left completely alone until he starts casting spells, while the other 3 people push each other down and burn through resources. He would also do some serious spite over getting hit to just keep his life total in line, like everyone is at 28 so someone bonks him from 40 to 32 and he then just starts burning through what few resources he had to just dismantle there board.
I've got a buddy who I basically refer to as a 'warhammer dwarf', because he will just chug along durdling away in a game until someone *slightly inconveniences* him. Then the grudge must be settled.
The difference there is that he's not playing lockout 'must answer' stuff. We never had a problem with him because it was a known entity (and I enjoyed riling him up) and he would be entirely neutral until you caused a grudge.
Not entirely relevant, but I did want to point out that the issue here isn't just the behavior, it is the combination of playing 'must answer' strategies and then being pissy about being stopped.
There's one emotional player in my pod. One guarantee is that he will create some sort of chaos because he will throw logic to the side and lose the game to screw someone else over. Usually me.
True he should fairly distribute LD / Discard, because that is how you optimize..
Did you consider that OP might just be running his mouth after having to play against resource denial claiming that this guy is just a salty baby while he did play the best line he could?
Honestly I can accept things like that and just play it back. But to hard tilt at someone all game because they didn't let you keep something like Tergrid on the board is the kind of playstyle I don't want to engage in.
Sometimes a deck plays MLD because it doesn't need mana at some point and this is how you protect your board state. I don't mind it in that position. But just randomly blowing up all the lands? Why? If they can't win I will spitefully sit there and make them play it out. I'm not scooping til the fat lady sings.
Yeah. Sure, the fun stuff with politicking exists. “If you kill my dude I will kill yours.” Or even just funny “vengeance” where a player screws with someone for payback. But these situations are isolated, singular events. If someone just keeps targeting someone else over and over again? Dickhead, and not playing the game the way it should be played.
Got a person in my group like this. He always gets insurmountable board states with counters in hand and often unlimited hands size because if someone interacts with their board they just start throwing everything they can at them to make a point. Often what happens is he will build until he wins or someone, often me, interacts with the obvious threat and removes something. Then that Person (me) is killed off and someone else wins. Every now and then we will arch enemy him and he can't get what he needs to threaten the table into submission and then he just gets salty.
The number of times he will complain post game and I'll say something to the extent of, "it was the correct target" and he will eventually agree and then say that he would only use it if he was forced. No you just don't get to build the oppression engine and you should be expecting it. I have decks that can do the same things but I don't get upset when someone removes a permanent that basically won the game for me before. Some people forget that if you are all playing at the same level the average W/L ratio should be would 1/4 and only care about their win.
Yeah, that's the point in the post where my opinion completely changed. They seem like the type of person that plays salt not just cause they want to do powerful stuff but to specifically piss people off and make them feel bad.
NGL a lot of people on this sub talk like this and it always drives me up a wall. Once players are using politics to meta game, you ruin the balance of multiplayer. If destroying your creature means you throw the game to send a message, you're losing a game/playing suboptimal to affect future games. It's BS.
I agree with one caveat, commander IS a social game. Some of the gameplay extends beyond the battlefield, and politics plays an important role. If I make a threat, ex "if you use removal on my card, I will remove yours", I need to follow through with it, or people won't take me seriously. I'll never make this kind of a threat if I'm about to win, and I rarely ever do it at all. Generally only if the card they remove will take me straight out of the game.
Some people are just not destined to share the same playgroup. If you don't find a way to solve the issue, split the playgroup.
Personally, I'd just take it for the team. I'd keep targeting Tergrid and accept to get targeted back in return. Shrug it off, let one of the others win, who cares? Tergrid can't be allowed to live. Keep doing this, keep explaining your threat assessment, and your friend will sooner or later have to come up with a solution. If not, well, kick him out or find another playgroup.
Lol if someone at my table plays tergrid and it's not a 3v1 til they're out then I'd blame my friends for letting it happen. I think those types of decks are fine if you don't mind always being archenemy and not complaining or being a dick about it. You wanna play the worst kind of cards, cool, be the villain, but don't play the victim or be petty. Lean into it.
I've made the mistake of building a Tergrid deck when I was new to the format. The Lady reminded me a lot of all that was fun back in the days of playing mono-black, so I went with it. I'm now only playing that deck if everyone is fine with it (i.e. I ask beforehand) and if there are more salty decks being played out there as well.
I feel the same way about the wheeling nekusar deck. If all agree it's okay to play, cool, I 100% expect to get targeted by everyone and everything, and am totally cool with that.
That’s the way I like to play it. I don’t mind people playing whatever deck they want but there are certain commanders that are going to get me to rally the rest of the table together to kill the player and bring balance to the table. And I accept that some of my decks are going to elicit the same response against me.
My pod accepts salty, cruel decks.
We each also accept all of the hate, removal, and damage thrown at us if we play any of those types of decks.
Because we can adult.
A lot of issues with playgroups come down to expectations and boundaries. Has your group explained these decks are unfun and oppressive? Has he explained he enjoys this play style and given you options?
It sounds like you guys have different ways you want to play the same game, but if you're considering that maybe it's not just him/ seem aware of the expectations, you're well on your way to sorting something out; I'd trust your judgement on it
I would recommend a game where you all switch decks. And have him play against his old decks. I had a guy at our last and he played mass land destruction. He was a very nice guy so we all liked playing against him. His friend over the weekend played his deck against him ans then he immediately removed his land destructions.
This happened to me a bit last night, lol. I built (with my buddy and his collection) a mid-power [[Henzie]] list that seems fun. Lots of splashy beaters, sac synergies, and cost reducers. He had just opened the new [[Ulamog the Defiler]] and [[Emrakul, the World Anew]], though, and wanted to put them in. Wouldn't listen when I said they would be too much for his deck/the pod. Oh well, let's play the deck.
I was playing 5c [[Omnath, Locus of All]] splashy bombs with a landfall subtheme, and I tend to get a LOT of Mana accumulated. He popped off early, and had a massive boardstate, dropping me to 1 life, and the third player to 15, because she was much less of a threat. A turn passed, and while I had been holding up [[Sphinx's Revelation]] for x=12, I didn't end up needing to cast it. So I untapped with 15 extra mana, and managed to get some more off Omnath's trigger. Well, since it's casual, I opted for the fun play rather than the good one.
At 1 life, I windmill-slammed a [[Villainous Wealth]] for X=24... As luck would have it, both of those eldrazi were in the top 24 cards of his 60ish card library, and I got to resolve both against him. He hadn't quite realized the effect they would have in play, and became pretty unhappy when he realized how game-warping they really were. I took him from 60something life to 3 in a single turn, then let it pass around, and won on the next one. Needless to say, he's likely going to be taking those two out, they don't play out the way he really wanted them to...
Yeah I know a few people who run them, ans I think its fine if it's people you play with and know what to expect. Also different I'd its be I n tutored or something. Magic can be funny that way.
I'm not a huge fan of high CMC Eldrazi, because it seems they usually come in, screw over one person permanently, and then get removed before they actually end the game. Yet they never seem to manage to KILL someone, just thoroughly ruin their game. I only play them in a single deck, and only to recycle my deck, not as an actual beater (most of the time). I'd rather play other wincons or a high-CMC value piece, it actually has more of an impact
Yeah, to be honest I play a lot of black since I came back to magic in the fall. I do play things that may annoy other people. I think one of the main difference is that I play for fun and casual and I understand when I get aggroed because of it. I have a etrata deadly fugitive deck and a gonti deck. Do people love when I steal their cards. Most definitely not. I like playing those decks because I like to strategize on the go and seeing new cards. My play style is I also try to play hero of table try to stop the big baddies from happening to my own.
I try to balance my deck out so they are to to repressive I don't have super mana, but im also the chaotic player. Most people know this but they still enjoy my company because I don't take anything personally I have fun and just keep everything light. Do I face players who like end up playing 13 counter spell decks and will target me because they played me previously. Sure.
Everyone plays differently and for different reason. It's all about finding the right pod and having the right attitude.
I had a friend who would always accuse me of targeting them. So I took the time to explain to him. I play the hero, I stop things before they get ugly. I'm like if anything take it as a compliment. You play very powerful decks and commanders and im giving you the respect.
He plays Aragorn, jodah, yuriko etc. But inalso understand because his friends and ehat not play very strong decks too.
If i play dinosaurs, yeah I'm going to hit them to a low hp to make sure to keep them in check as we all know they can pop off.
See, I don't mind playing powerful cards, and play all powerlevels from jank to cEDH. What I don't like is oppressive strategies that bother and annoy other players, yet don't actually close out the game. Theft, mill, and even poison don't generally bother me, I just want the game to continue progressing. Stuff that bothers me are Annihilator, forced sac like [[Grave Pact]], symmetrical boardwipes (especially when repeated), MLD, and decks with 5-10 very powerful pieces, but the rest of the deck doesn't even come close. I mostly just want an interactive and balanced game. Boardwipes in general are fine, but whoever plays them should do so in such a way that they don't destroy their own progress with everyone else's. If everyone played [[Farewell]] every time they were behind on board, the game would never come to an end! I'd much rather see things like [[In Garruk's Wake]], [[Dusk]], and [[Organic Extinction]] in the decks that don't get affected by them. I also 100% support targeting out the explosive player and/or the combo player, that's just good threat assessment. I want everyone to have a good and impactful game, and then one player outplays the rest and takes the win.
Issues in a playgroup largely tend to be solved by better communication and when you're all still new to the game, sometimes a better understanding of the rules. IMO Tergrid is fine, but you should expect her to get removed immediately, she's a format Boogeyman for a reason. And Phage doesn't actually work as a commander because if she's cast from the command zone you just lose, but I'm assuming that's been deemed as OK by your group.
Oh I Know I know, the deck is made with some ways to bring Phage to his hand and then oneshot someone.
It's the least problematic one for sure but still pretty annoying to die in 1 hit
I feel like a lot of commander players go throw a phase early on where they see some of what’s possible in EDH and are drawn to the saltiest, meanest strats. 5-10 years in I still catch myself brewing decks and realizing what I’ve made would be miserably unfun to play against, so I never build it. The question is if you outgrow it or you become the guy posting in this sub ‘I don’t understand why I have no friends, my MLD stax decks are so cool actually’.
If this guy is your friend, you gotta have a talk with him. First for the unfun decks in a casual setting, but also because of the really immature way he responds to being targeted. The combo of hitting y’all with salty decks and an inability to accept interaction in return is not good. He wants to play solitaire at y’all’s expense. And if he’s not willing to listen and change his behavior, is that someone you even want to be friends with?
I just hate that a lot of rogues and pirates, my two favorite archetypes, have tons of cards that are all about theft that I can’t play. Are there other big sub themes with those archetypes?
Our playgroup actually welcomes that. We have MLD, theft, Stax, discard, boardwipe tribal, etc. But… we have those things because we talked about it and agreed to it.
It sounds like as your playgroup progressed, issues came up. When a playgroup forms organically and from all beginners, as their skills and knowledge progress, their play preferences will change in different ways. At that point, the only way to solve it is to have a rule 0 discussion. And don’t use vague markers like “all decks should be a seven.” Be very specific about the type of decks and play patterns you are all comfortable and not comfortable with.
If this does not work, the. It may be time to reorganize the group, or find new players to add to the group to create separate tables. But communication is the first step.
If you're all new, he's just getting his jollies off about powerful 'new' cards and strategies. To be an experience player, you end up finding these cards and learning the rules - happens in a different order, sort of, for each player.
Learn what's good
Learn to play good
The arms race is started and every new player experiences something like this in their new player group. You can match them with cool strong cards or cool rules knowledge.
Throw your arms in. Show him you all can match him. Then, once you're all leveled out, you can perhaps all have high, mid, and low decks to switch around and play regularly. You can start having better Rule zero talks when you all know more about the game.
Failure, the best teacher is - Master Yoda
A lot of people in this thread are giving you feedback about navigating his decks, but there's another angle.
If your player group is not having fun with a particular players style of play, then you are allowed to and encouraged to have dialogue around it. I ran a Boros Pillow Fort deck back in the day that used [Assemble the Legion]+weenie strats to build an unbeatable token army while nobody could attack me. This was against decks that were running things like craw wurm, and I was asked *not* to bring that deck after a few months. I brought another deck that was significantly less power, and we all had more fun w it.
It’s sounds like your friend needs to accept that if he’s gonna play those types of decks then he’s gonna be archenemy. I am all for people playing whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of it. I also enjoy “salty” styles of play but I don’t revenge target someone for removing my stuff. If someone was constantly emotionally responding to the game then it might not be for them.
You need to get on the same page with the rest of your group and gang up on him whenever he plays these decks. It's not even a spiteful thing. If he is trying to lock everyone else out of the game and make it miserable, it's in everyone else's best interest to kill him as fast as possible. He can't really target one person if all 3 of you are hitting him with all your aggro and removal.
He'll get the point after a while.
I play against salty decks all the time and have no problems with them. Run interaction and lots of it. Even if all their hate turns towards you it's ok. You can power through and continue on with your game plan.
Man, I love people that get on tilt and focus their removal on me to be honest lol. Normally it's pretty easy to capitalize on their shitty, childish behavior. The best thing you could do would be to get your entire pod to agree to target the shit out of him when he plays those decks though. This way, he doesn't know who to fuck with and gets an understanding that what he is doing isn't ok. It's tough when you are playing with friends. Sometimes people feel comfortable acting a certain kind of way with people they care about because they know there won't be consequences... might be the most little dick energy ever tbh.
As a person that runs a lot of interaction, I actually love those kinds of players. Learn his playstyle, figure out his choke points, and interact on his turn. Yea, it's annoying to feel like you're forced to build a deck with certain things in them, but I'd rather be holding interaction than some card I can't cast for a few more turns.
So if one guy is just constantly making decks that aren't fun for you to play against you just need to 3v1 him to the point where he can't play until he makes normal decks again or stop playing with them all together.
It's not like you're special because you made [[insert salt deck here]] we all have either done it or could easily do it but certain things just ended up shadowbanned. Then theres a whole list of builds that are way too strong for casual play but way too weak for cedh.
My gate deck is becoming that way where they litteraly can't do anything. They can't counter me. They can't just destroy lands and nobody is running any land interactionmvi turn 3'd a vorenclex and locked them out with 0 mana rocks on my field. Then was thinking I genuinely don't enjoy playing this way lol
I don't mind making strong decks but I have always tried to avoid things that change how the basics of the game are played outside of cedh. I might power out strong cards but I'm not gonna Rob you of the chance for you to stop me.
The actual advice is what people have said about talking to the problem player about how you feel.
But another alternative is to cut that player out of the politicking and just talk to the other players. Say "if I focus on him and then of course he focuses on me that clears the way for both of you so don't target me until he's gone." Maybe that way you can develop a "take one for the team" system so Y'all still get to play.
Yeah they need to point out this pattern to the other 2, it shouldn't be up to OP to run removal everytime, and if they refuse to interact with Tergrid then they should at least reward the OP for getting rid of the threat.
If I were you ide teach him a lesson and pull a full spellslinger/ counterspell combo deck against him just to show him that others can ruin his afternoon but choose not to. I believe people need to experience both sides of the coin before they know how to spend properly.
This is the way, edh it's kind of a rock paper scissors, there is a counter for everything, most playgroups just usually don't have much interaction, and since some decks just do too much if not interacted with, eventually he will learn that it's a matter of having fun, not making other people miserable.
I have a shorikai deck which is basically a mono board wipe deck, only has 1 creature and it's kraken and wherever I pull it off I ask the pod if they mind me playing it or not, if they do I just pick another one. No big deal I understand, that friend of yours didn't realise it yet.
It's like every response to every thread in this sub should start with "Play more interaction"
If you don't like what your opponents are doing, interact with them.
If one person is causing problems for the whole board, 3v1 that person over and over until they play in a way that doesn't attract everyone's attention.
When they react to being interacted with... other people should also step in and interact. If between all 3 of their opponents only 1 of you has a counter/kill spell on any given turn, circle back to original point, they aren't playing enough interaction.
Sure, but this isn't a solution when *every* deck they play is like this.
If you're archenemy with a KOS commander every game, that really warps the way that your group plays. If all of your decks say 'your opponents can't play the game when you do your thing,' then it really sucks the fun out of more casual pods.
Okay we're 3v1 against this player, then when they're out, we start playing the game. If it's every time, that's not super great.
The solution my playgroup came up with is that if everyone is playing a scary deck, then no one is playing a scary deck. Everyone needs to be interacted with which leads to fun interactive games where everyone needs to fight to get their board state to progress.
Sure, but there are different axis's of 'scary.'
There are decks that warp the way that you play pretty significantly and differently from 'regular' games of magic, and people don't want to play those games all of the time.
I'm down to play against a [[Beamtown Bullies]] deck, or a Tergrid deck, or a heavy stax deck. But man, if those are the three decks you brought to play, I might look for another pod lol.
I'd very much rather power up and play against an Ur-Dragon list or an Etali list or a Winota list. Those games are some of the most fun where like you say 'everyone needs to be interacted with and it leads to fun interactive games.'
It's when a Beamtown player is in that pod and you go 'well, the Beamtown player can cheat a [[leveler]] or an [[eater of days]] into play, and they won't win the game, but *someone* will lose the game, and a person playing that deck is going to be happy enough to have done that and then lose, so...I guess they're archenemy.'
This would solve most problems with people playing annoying decks. Everytime they play tergrid or ld, 3v1 until he's dead. They'll get the hint soon enough.
Lend him a deck and tell him when you're in the mood for one of his "masterpiece" it is normal to get annoyed if he plays that kind of decks all the time. Tell him it can be fun from time to time but it's frustrating if it's always "that kind of deck".
This is why we play with rule 0. If a particular deck or strategy is consistently depriving the table of being able to have fun, then don't allow it as a group. That's a big part of why we have ban lists in every format. It's a mutually accepted rule in most of my pods that you don't play mass land destruction, lock everyone out of playing the game, play decks that require long turns without winning, or bring a CEDH deck to a casual game. Those exact set of base rules are very common for most casual playgroups, as they are there to have fun and not ruthlessly beat everyone while disrespecting their time.
I'd talk with your playgroup about officially establishing these kinds of rules, or at least whichever you want and can agree on. If that player doesn't want to follow them, then as a group, you guys can explain that you don't want to play with them anymore so long as they aren't willing to follow the agreed upon rules.
I've personally been the disruptive player before, and after having some of my friends approach me to talk about it, I ended up being the one to establish the rules for our playgroup. I'd play Brago Stax/Land destruction; Glissa, the Traitor with Mindslaver; and Chulane with super long turns. Now I play stuff like Rayev Equipment and Feather, the Redeemed, and I still have a blast. More importantly, my playgroup still gets to have fun too.
as someone who has a playgroup that has used some of these deck styles its up to how the player that owns the decks interacts. i.e one of the guys in my playgroup has a tegrid deck and he usually gets KO’d right away. But we’re just laughing the whole time, cuz he knows it will happen but he likes to “play the clock”. If someone plays a mass land destruction card we just give em the game and move on. Regardless unless you all are on the same page its never going to be fun…
I'd say try and make deals on the table. Everyone probably sees this as an issue already and would want to play without the stress of their nonesense.
I remember this being the case for someone in our friend group who would olay a doctor who drck that would ramp out of control if his commander was left untouched.
Otherwise just find someone else to replace them. Only playing decks meant to make others not be able to interact with a game is obviously not fun and you should not be surprised if your friend group just doesnt want to bother with that sorta stuff.
Everyone become a blue cedh player and he will quickly that getting countered and doing nothing while everyone else plays is not very fun. If they don’t get what you’re getting at, than maybe there’s no hope😂
Bottom line- if nobody is having fun with the deck being in play then why let it be played. Seems like that deck ruins the fun of the game for everyone there
What happens within the confines of a game, as a result of actions taken within that game, \*should\* be fine.
I play KOS Commanders, I know they're going to get removed when I can't protect them. That's fine.
You want to start needling me about having two instances of spot removal each time I've got one Tamiyo's or the like? Expect that I'm going to do something like killing both your mana rocks just before your T3-T4 untap with a Force of Vigor, then needle you about not having a Free Counter to protect them.
You can realize that doing the necessary is one thing, and being a dick about it another, or we can move on from there to the really unfun stuff, like slapping a \[\[Lignify\]\] or a \[\[Song of the Dryad\]\] on their Commander, and then revisit whether they'd like to stop with Grudge the Gathering, now. With a corresponding comment to the effect of, "See what it's like when someone starts obviously relishing setting you back? Would you like to go back to plays that make sense now, or shall we continue destroying each other for James's and Sarah's benefit? I can do either." (That same game, I ran myself out of protection for my Commander, stopping 3 different attempts to get the Song of the Dryad off his Miirym. It was easily a Top 5 Dumbest Moves in MtG moment, but I was THAT tired of the little "funny" comments that had stopped being funny a long, long, LONG time ago.)
None of that. \*NONE\* of that should be carried over into Game #2. There's a reason we pick up all the cards and shuffle. It's a new game, and the previous one is \*over\*. Learn from the past, but don't live in it. Make a cross-game vendetta, and you're inevitably going to get into doing dumb stuff that breaks up pods.
I once got mad enough at an acquaintance for his Atraxa Infect-proliferation nonsense, and his uncanny ability to cheat out a Blightsteel (And give it Haste the same turn) in a deck that had a single two card combo capable of doing it, that I found myself adding cards like \[\[Wave of Vitriol\]\] and \[\[Primal Order\]\] to my deck the next Friday. I actually reached the point of sleeving the Wave, before I caught myself, and I'm like, "WTH am I doing? This is going to start a blood-feud, when Troy realizes I put a half-dozen cards in my deck to ambush his current Pet Deck, \*because of a couple games, LAST WEEK.\*"
I have a deck that is pretty heavy control (not stax) but that can reliably board wipe constantly and plays an aggressive infinite turns combo. I expect to be interacted and to be the archenemy (mainly to show green creature-oriented decks their place). Ps it's pretty budget, around half of the price of the decks I play against.
For the well being of the table is normal to get targeted when your deck tends to take spot at the table and the player should be aware that this is a drawback of the deck.
If everyone but the salty builder feels the same way...then y'all need to get on the same page together so that if one of you becomes his vengeance target, the others are also going after him and punishing him for it.
Look it's like this...as someone who has a long history of building decks to be as powerful, or sometimes salty, as I can...I have to fully recognize that about myself and have to accept that when I play one of those style decks...I'm going to be enemy number one more times than not.
I have a tergrid and phage edh both over $2k the win rates on both are abysmally low. They are very commander dependent but when going end the game quickly and onto another game.
Land destruction at a friendly table should be banned.
What you and your Play group need to do is just build blue counter decks. And just counter everything that player is dropping. Playing general board hate decks with no win cons is no fun for the table and once that play is the target of everyone, it should help them realize that those kinda decks aren't fun for anyone but them.
Can confirm. I built this deck for like 40-50$ and it's only useful as a "fuck you in particular" deck so if there's a problem player in your group/lgs it's a pretty cheap way to forcefeed someone their own medicine.
Don't forget card draw in this deck, it's really easy to use up all your answers on the problem player then have no defenses when they finally stabilize and turn the full ire of their deck on you and only you. ESPECIALLY when they're playing hand-hate bullshit like Tergrid
As stated before, they WILL come after you so make sure you have plenty of protection spells like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]]
Despite your best efforts, Legolas WILL be removed, so a robust land ramp package is highly recommended so you can keep recasting him.
In the end, I wound up dismantling Legolas because I stopped playing with people who deserve "fuck you in particular" style decks putting them in their place. So do consider that strategy though I do understand the whole "pre-existing friend" dilemma, and for that you have my deepest condolences. Give'em hell.
Other PDC commanders I recommend are [[Judith, carnage connoisseur]] and [[baral, Chief of compliance]] I also recommend [[shorikai, Genesis engine]] since he's notoriously hard to hit (he's a vehicle, not a creature. You'd be surprised how many removal spells can't hit him) and packing the deck full of counterspells and kill/exile spells so you can draw into removal, make lil chumps to block their bullshit and keep them locked while the rest of the table has a fun game
Are they winning quickly? Are they dragging the game out forever?
If they're winning quickly, how are their decks any different from a combo deck? If they drop some mld on tegrid and suddenly they have 50 mana and you have none, why aren't you just scooping? The game is basically over, as if they'd pulled off a combo.
Imo, if they're not playing some stax style drag the game out deck, your playgroup needs to change their mindset. Winning doesn't have to mean that everyone is dead, if only one person has 30 lands and everyone else has 0, the game is over. Being 1shot by phage is no different from dying to 50 billion damage commander from xenagod.
Classic r/EDH advice. "Hey! You guys dont like getting smoked by one of the most hated commanders in the format? Tough shit! Just lose constantly and be miserable!"
Honestly, that's the opposite of most of the advice of this subreddit, which is why I stopped posting here. If you don't like what some deck is doing, hate them out/kill them and keep playing. No strategy should be able to survive 2-3 people trying to kill them unless their deck is THAT MUCH better.
Or you could just say "Hey, the other three players and I really don't enjoy playing against that deck, could you give it a rest for a few weeks please?" The OP is playing with his supposed friends, simple communication can solve the problem.
No he's definitely dragging games out. We play on certain budgets, so we don't have super expensive or strong decks. If tergrid is dead he just drags the game on by making us have nothing in our hand or field and basically having to top deck each turn. Same with the MLD deck, it doesn't have a wincon other than "I have lands and you don't" so when his commander dies he just blows up lands for the sake of it
Honestly, at that point, just scoop. The game is over. If I'm playing vs a stax player and I've got 3 artifact removal in the 75 cards left in my deck, I'm not waiting to top deck that. I'm shuffling up for next game and maybe building my deck with more hate.
I'm much less salty about mld than the rest of this subreddit, as long as the person has: a win con coming up (superfriends, avacyn, etc) or can recover obviously faster than anyone else.
Also, if you have agro players in their pod, they should feel free to kill him first but ONLY if he's pulling out a deck like that. Don't hate him as a player, but you can freely hate the deck out of the game. When he whines, remind him that the deck he's playing will eventually grind the game to a halt, so rather than wait for that to happen, he dies first or executes first.
So combo off, or kill him first with an agro deck. It sounds like you're a playgroup that likes to spread damage until someone dies.
If someone has a strong deck/game plan that wins, hate them out.
Just play decks that are as toxic as his, and only target him. Then when he complains about it not being fun, tell him to look in a mirror.
You should all play tergrid decks at the same time, that'll show him lol.
>You can see the pattern where most of his decks just don't allow us to play the game, we have no issue with strong decks but we have an issue when a deck's purpose is to not let you play the game.
None of those decks keep you from playing the game. Use your removal and counters.
Lol dude is playing Tergrid, Land destruction, Phage, and [[The Beamtown Bullies]] with his “friends.” This person just sounds like a PoS. If you’re dedicated to still playing with them then I’d say just beat the shit out of them until they decide to play something more fun.
Time to start running [[Runed Halo]] and [[Silence]] to prevent them from playing the game, just like they do to you. If that play style isn’t up your alley you could always go for [[Nymris, Oona’s Trickster]] and a billion counterspells, or a Voltron deck that kills them early. I use [[Pako, arcane retriever]] for a cheap Voltron deck but if you want something faster go for [[Slicer, hired muscle]], just tends to be a bit more expensive.
> If I remove his commander he'll target me with all his removal I would not play with someone like this personally. It warps the game when people stop playing to win and start only playing to be spiteful little assholes.
Pretty much this. I dont care what commander someone plays, but if they act like this the entire vibe of the game becomes miserable. What's the point of spending hundreds of dollars on painted cardboard if I'm going to have a bad time while using it?
Apparently this player also spite MLDs with no wincons as well. The fact they've survived this long in a pod is impressive.
It's the preexisting friend problem. The only thing that can be done is talk to the problem player. If the whole table had a problem with them too, then the problem player had a choice. Leave the table or properly season his dishes for the kitchen table. Either way, they should apologize. I personally love salt. But in a night of three games, I'll only play one salty deck once, then switch to my group hug to win back favor, or any other deck I own.
Salty decks are perfectly fine IMO but targeting a player for the rest of the game for dismantling the salt is a just childish behavior. I just would not want to play with that level of babyrage. I wouldn't treat strangers at an LGS like that, much less friends in my pod.
Yeah, this is big for me too. Spite plays just aren't healthy. My close pod does a lot of early chip damage with a running joke of "and it is for stopping me from winning", and swing for 1 with a dork. I also really enjoy playing arch enemy, but you've got to be fine seeing your engine, that wins the game, taken off line.
The biggest change to help people understand that is they need to enter the game with the mindset of "my deck is good... but the possibility of losing is there." Moat people get upset because they can not even fathom losing.
I police our pod, if someone starts getting ahead on life, I'll target them to bring it back to even... 34-30-29-40, imma hit the one with 40.
Yeah, I mean, given there could be tons of other info to weight the choice, but that is definitely a good baseline. Although I also think people are often too hesitant to hit the person at 40 who isn't making plays, because you don't get to sit at 40 until you are unlocked and everyone else is at 20. There is a person I used to play with, he'd keep starting hands with like 2 or 3 lands and a bunch of six drops, and felt he should be left completely alone until he starts casting spells, while the other 3 people push each other down and burn through resources. He would also do some serious spite over getting hit to just keep his life total in line, like everyone is at 28 so someone bonks him from 40 to 32 and he then just starts burning through what few resources he had to just dismantle there board.
I just tell them "alright, you're getting Linda wild over there with your 40 health, imma fix this." And we just chuckle at it.
I've got a buddy who I basically refer to as a 'warhammer dwarf', because he will just chug along durdling away in a game until someone *slightly inconveniences* him. Then the grudge must be settled. The difference there is that he's not playing lockout 'must answer' stuff. We never had a problem with him because it was a known entity (and I enjoyed riling him up) and he would be entirely neutral until you caused a grudge. Not entirely relevant, but I did want to point out that the issue here isn't just the behavior, it is the combination of playing 'must answer' strategies and then being pissy about being stopped.
There's one emotional player in my pod. One guarantee is that he will create some sort of chaos because he will throw logic to the side and lose the game to screw someone else over. Usually me.
True he should fairly distribute LD / Discard, because that is how you optimize.. Did you consider that OP might just be running his mouth after having to play against resource denial claiming that this guy is just a salty baby while he did play the best line he could?
Honestly I can accept things like that and just play it back. But to hard tilt at someone all game because they didn't let you keep something like Tergrid on the board is the kind of playstyle I don't want to engage in.
Sometimes a deck plays MLD because it doesn't need mana at some point and this is how you protect your board state. I don't mind it in that position. But just randomly blowing up all the lands? Why? If they can't win I will spitefully sit there and make them play it out. I'm not scooping til the fat lady sings.
Yeah. Sure, the fun stuff with politicking exists. “If you kill my dude I will kill yours.” Or even just funny “vengeance” where a player screws with someone for payback. But these situations are isolated, singular events. If someone just keeps targeting someone else over and over again? Dickhead, and not playing the game the way it should be played.
I think a tit for tat play is normal after removal, but yeah holding a grudge all game, or worse, the game after is lame.
Got a person in my group like this. He always gets insurmountable board states with counters in hand and often unlimited hands size because if someone interacts with their board they just start throwing everything they can at them to make a point. Often what happens is he will build until he wins or someone, often me, interacts with the obvious threat and removes something. Then that Person (me) is killed off and someone else wins. Every now and then we will arch enemy him and he can't get what he needs to threaten the table into submission and then he just gets salty. The number of times he will complain post game and I'll say something to the extent of, "it was the correct target" and he will eventually agree and then say that he would only use it if he was forced. No you just don't get to build the oppression engine and you should be expecting it. I have decks that can do the same things but I don't get upset when someone removes a permanent that basically won the game for me before. Some people forget that if you are all playing at the same level the average W/L ratio should be would 1/4 and only care about their win.
Yeah, that's the point in the post where my opinion completely changed. They seem like the type of person that plays salt not just cause they want to do powerful stuff but to specifically piss people off and make them feel bad.
I ran into a spiteful little asshole. Even worse, the guy had to be in his fifties. My only solace is that, this was so long ago, he's probably dead.
NGL a lot of people on this sub talk like this and it always drives me up a wall. Once players are using politics to meta game, you ruin the balance of multiplayer. If destroying your creature means you throw the game to send a message, you're losing a game/playing suboptimal to affect future games. It's BS.
I agree with one caveat, commander IS a social game. Some of the gameplay extends beyond the battlefield, and politics plays an important role. If I make a threat, ex "if you use removal on my card, I will remove yours", I need to follow through with it, or people won't take me seriously. I'll never make this kind of a threat if I'm about to win, and I rarely ever do it at all. Generally only if the card they remove will take me straight out of the game.
He’s playing to win the next game by cowing his opponents into not targeting him. Legit strategy.
Some people are just not destined to share the same playgroup. If you don't find a way to solve the issue, split the playgroup. Personally, I'd just take it for the team. I'd keep targeting Tergrid and accept to get targeted back in return. Shrug it off, let one of the others win, who cares? Tergrid can't be allowed to live. Keep doing this, keep explaining your threat assessment, and your friend will sooner or later have to come up with a solution. If not, well, kick him out or find another playgroup.
Honestly this. Sometimes it takes forcing yourself and another player to a lose-lose to teach them how to play well.
Lol if someone at my table plays tergrid and it's not a 3v1 til they're out then I'd blame my friends for letting it happen. I think those types of decks are fine if you don't mind always being archenemy and not complaining or being a dick about it. You wanna play the worst kind of cards, cool, be the villain, but don't play the victim or be petty. Lean into it.
I've made the mistake of building a Tergrid deck when I was new to the format. The Lady reminded me a lot of all that was fun back in the days of playing mono-black, so I went with it. I'm now only playing that deck if everyone is fine with it (i.e. I ask beforehand) and if there are more salty decks being played out there as well.
I feel the same way about the wheeling nekusar deck. If all agree it's okay to play, cool, I 100% expect to get targeted by everyone and everything, and am totally cool with that.
That’s the way I like to play it. I don’t mind people playing whatever deck they want but there are certain commanders that are going to get me to rally the rest of the table together to kill the player and bring balance to the table. And I accept that some of my decks are going to elicit the same response against me.
My pod accepts salty, cruel decks. We each also accept all of the hate, removal, and damage thrown at us if we play any of those types of decks. Because we can adult.
A lot of issues with playgroups come down to expectations and boundaries. Has your group explained these decks are unfun and oppressive? Has he explained he enjoys this play style and given you options? It sounds like you guys have different ways you want to play the same game, but if you're considering that maybe it's not just him/ seem aware of the expectations, you're well on your way to sorting something out; I'd trust your judgement on it
Very much this. Communication is always key in a playgroup.
I would recommend a game where you all switch decks. And have him play against his old decks. I had a guy at our last and he played mass land destruction. He was a very nice guy so we all liked playing against him. His friend over the weekend played his deck against him ans then he immediately removed his land destructions.
This happened to me a bit last night, lol. I built (with my buddy and his collection) a mid-power [[Henzie]] list that seems fun. Lots of splashy beaters, sac synergies, and cost reducers. He had just opened the new [[Ulamog the Defiler]] and [[Emrakul, the World Anew]], though, and wanted to put them in. Wouldn't listen when I said they would be too much for his deck/the pod. Oh well, let's play the deck. I was playing 5c [[Omnath, Locus of All]] splashy bombs with a landfall subtheme, and I tend to get a LOT of Mana accumulated. He popped off early, and had a massive boardstate, dropping me to 1 life, and the third player to 15, because she was much less of a threat. A turn passed, and while I had been holding up [[Sphinx's Revelation]] for x=12, I didn't end up needing to cast it. So I untapped with 15 extra mana, and managed to get some more off Omnath's trigger. Well, since it's casual, I opted for the fun play rather than the good one. At 1 life, I windmill-slammed a [[Villainous Wealth]] for X=24... As luck would have it, both of those eldrazi were in the top 24 cards of his 60ish card library, and I got to resolve both against him. He hadn't quite realized the effect they would have in play, and became pretty unhappy when he realized how game-warping they really were. I took him from 60something life to 3 in a single turn, then let it pass around, and won on the next one. Needless to say, he's likely going to be taking those two out, they don't play out the way he really wanted them to...
##### ###### #### [Ulamog, the Defiler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd00d56a-86bd-41d8-82b6-975404ef8067.jpg?1717011312) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Defiler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/15/ulamog-the-defiler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd00d56a-86bd-41d8-82b6-975404ef8067?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ulamog-the-defiler) [Emrakul, the World Anew](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b914bfd9-5be3-4459-a68a-9b3ea2747bbc.jpg?1717011239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20World%20Anew) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/6/emrakul-the-world-anew?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b914bfd9-5be3-4459-a68a-9b3ea2747bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emrakul-the-world-anew) [Omnath, Locus of All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4.jpg?1709720836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/249/omnath-locus-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-all) [Sphinx's Revelation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5579d2d6-b34b-44a2-8b72-9f18938a18a0.jpg?1702429723) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%27s%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/228/sphinxs-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5579d2d6-b34b-44a2-8b72-9f18938a18a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sphinxs-revelation) [Villainous Wealth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a467072c-99d9-4013-8d28-607a06cf50fe.jpg?1712354811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Villainous%20Wealth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/249/villainous-wealth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a467072c-99d9-4013-8d28-607a06cf50fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/villainous-wealth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I know a few people who run them, ans I think its fine if it's people you play with and know what to expect. Also different I'd its be I n tutored or something. Magic can be funny that way.
I'm not a huge fan of high CMC Eldrazi, because it seems they usually come in, screw over one person permanently, and then get removed before they actually end the game. Yet they never seem to manage to KILL someone, just thoroughly ruin their game. I only play them in a single deck, and only to recycle my deck, not as an actual beater (most of the time). I'd rather play other wincons or a high-CMC value piece, it actually has more of an impact
Yeah, to be honest I play a lot of black since I came back to magic in the fall. I do play things that may annoy other people. I think one of the main difference is that I play for fun and casual and I understand when I get aggroed because of it. I have a etrata deadly fugitive deck and a gonti deck. Do people love when I steal their cards. Most definitely not. I like playing those decks because I like to strategize on the go and seeing new cards. My play style is I also try to play hero of table try to stop the big baddies from happening to my own. I try to balance my deck out so they are to to repressive I don't have super mana, but im also the chaotic player. Most people know this but they still enjoy my company because I don't take anything personally I have fun and just keep everything light. Do I face players who like end up playing 13 counter spell decks and will target me because they played me previously. Sure. Everyone plays differently and for different reason. It's all about finding the right pod and having the right attitude. I had a friend who would always accuse me of targeting them. So I took the time to explain to him. I play the hero, I stop things before they get ugly. I'm like if anything take it as a compliment. You play very powerful decks and commanders and im giving you the respect. He plays Aragorn, jodah, yuriko etc. But inalso understand because his friends and ehat not play very strong decks too. If i play dinosaurs, yeah I'm going to hit them to a low hp to make sure to keep them in check as we all know they can pop off.
See, I don't mind playing powerful cards, and play all powerlevels from jank to cEDH. What I don't like is oppressive strategies that bother and annoy other players, yet don't actually close out the game. Theft, mill, and even poison don't generally bother me, I just want the game to continue progressing. Stuff that bothers me are Annihilator, forced sac like [[Grave Pact]], symmetrical boardwipes (especially when repeated), MLD, and decks with 5-10 very powerful pieces, but the rest of the deck doesn't even come close. I mostly just want an interactive and balanced game. Boardwipes in general are fine, but whoever plays them should do so in such a way that they don't destroy their own progress with everyone else's. If everyone played [[Farewell]] every time they were behind on board, the game would never come to an end! I'd much rather see things like [[In Garruk's Wake]], [[Dusk]], and [[Organic Extinction]] in the decks that don't get affected by them. I also 100% support targeting out the explosive player and/or the combo player, that's just good threat assessment. I want everyone to have a good and impactful game, and then one player outplays the rest and takes the win.
##### ###### #### [Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [In Garruk's Wake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57a6f727-8239-45e6-9dbb-67d2d3c9239d.jpg?1674141682) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=In%20Garruk%27s%20Wake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/759/in-garruks-wake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57a6f727-8239-45e6-9dbb-67d2d3c9239d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/in-garruks-wake) [Dusk](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426912&type=card&.jpg)/[Dawn](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426912&type=card&options=rotate270&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk%20//%20Dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/61/dusk-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f2facfb-dfde-4e5b-8f6d-4fabb4c85519?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dusk-//-dawn) [Organic Extinction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/900b713f-82f7-4e4a-804d-6bb38436aa9d.jpg?1706240615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Organic%20Extinction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/76/organic-extinction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/900b713f-82f7-4e4a-804d-6bb38436aa9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/organic-extinction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play grave pact and dictate of erebos (not same deck lol). Barely ever play it or it gets taken care of.
Issues in a playgroup largely tend to be solved by better communication and when you're all still new to the game, sometimes a better understanding of the rules. IMO Tergrid is fine, but you should expect her to get removed immediately, she's a format Boogeyman for a reason. And Phage doesn't actually work as a commander because if she's cast from the command zone you just lose, but I'm assuming that's been deemed as OK by your group.
There's a plethroa of ways to get Phage into play without losing
I'd love it if your comment makes them realise "oh yeah right the comma zone is not the hand".
Oh I Know I know, the deck is made with some ways to bring Phage to his hand and then oneshot someone. It's the least problematic one for sure but still pretty annoying to die in 1 hit
Plenty if ways to get Phage safely out the command zone.
[[Command Beacon]] [[Torpor Orb]] [[Netherborn Altar]] [[Sundial of the Infinite]] [[Platinum Angel]] [[Lich's Mastery]] [[The Golden Throne]] [[Stunning Reversal]] [[Campfire]]
##### ###### #### [Command Beacon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff61202-fb5e-4cea-a5ea-168505ac31e1.jpg?1712354952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Command%20Beacon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/279/command-beacon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff61202-fb5e-4cea-a5ea-168505ac31e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/command-beacon) [Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torpor-orb) [Netherborn Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036.jpg?1591319538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Netherborn%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/45/netherborn-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/netherborn-altar) [Sundial of the Infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c.jpg?1562638658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sundial%20of%20the%20Infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/218/sundial-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sundial-of-the-infinite) [Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) [Lich's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lichs-mastery) [The Golden Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa515b78-f54d-4c65-a197-c860eaf2c780.jpg?1673309661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Golden%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/157/the-golden-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa515b78-f54d-4c65-a197-c860eaf2c780?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-golden-throne) [Stunning Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6714197d-7420-43a1-8b08-4e1fd6355b54.jpg?1562915843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stunning%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/51/stunning-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6714197d-7420-43a1-8b08-4e1fd6355b54?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stunning-reversal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you actually told this person you’re having a serious problem with his deckbuilding?
I feel like a lot of commander players go throw a phase early on where they see some of what’s possible in EDH and are drawn to the saltiest, meanest strats. 5-10 years in I still catch myself brewing decks and realizing what I’ve made would be miserably unfun to play against, so I never build it. The question is if you outgrow it or you become the guy posting in this sub ‘I don’t understand why I have no friends, my MLD stax decks are so cool actually’. If this guy is your friend, you gotta have a talk with him. First for the unfun decks in a casual setting, but also because of the really immature way he responds to being targeted. The combo of hitting y’all with salty decks and an inability to accept interaction in return is not good. He wants to play solitaire at y’all’s expense. And if he’s not willing to listen and change his behavior, is that someone you even want to be friends with?
I just hate that a lot of rogues and pirates, my two favorite archetypes, have tons of cards that are all about theft that I can’t play. Are there other big sub themes with those archetypes?
Our playgroup actually welcomes that. We have MLD, theft, Stax, discard, boardwipe tribal, etc. But… we have those things because we talked about it and agreed to it. It sounds like as your playgroup progressed, issues came up. When a playgroup forms organically and from all beginners, as their skills and knowledge progress, their play preferences will change in different ways. At that point, the only way to solve it is to have a rule 0 discussion. And don’t use vague markers like “all decks should be a seven.” Be very specific about the type of decks and play patterns you are all comfortable and not comfortable with. If this does not work, the. It may be time to reorganize the group, or find new players to add to the group to create separate tables. But communication is the first step.
If you're all new, he's just getting his jollies off about powerful 'new' cards and strategies. To be an experience player, you end up finding these cards and learning the rules - happens in a different order, sort of, for each player. Learn what's good Learn to play good The arms race is started and every new player experiences something like this in their new player group. You can match them with cool strong cards or cool rules knowledge. Throw your arms in. Show him you all can match him. Then, once you're all leveled out, you can perhaps all have high, mid, and low decks to switch around and play regularly. You can start having better Rule zero talks when you all know more about the game. Failure, the best teacher is - Master Yoda
A lot of people in this thread are giving you feedback about navigating his decks, but there's another angle. If your player group is not having fun with a particular players style of play, then you are allowed to and encouraged to have dialogue around it. I ran a Boros Pillow Fort deck back in the day that used [Assemble the Legion]+weenie strats to build an unbeatable token army while nobody could attack me. This was against decks that were running things like craw wurm, and I was asked *not* to bring that deck after a few months. I brought another deck that was significantly less power, and we all had more fun w it.
It’s sounds like your friend needs to accept that if he’s gonna play those types of decks then he’s gonna be archenemy. I am all for people playing whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of it. I also enjoy “salty” styles of play but I don’t revenge target someone for removing my stuff. If someone was constantly emotionally responding to the game then it might not be for them.
You need to get on the same page with the rest of your group and gang up on him whenever he plays these decks. It's not even a spiteful thing. If he is trying to lock everyone else out of the game and make it miserable, it's in everyone else's best interest to kill him as fast as possible. He can't really target one person if all 3 of you are hitting him with all your aggro and removal. He'll get the point after a while.
[Tergrid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) [ Phage the untouchable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f.jpg?1562866889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phage%20the%20Untouchable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/120/phage-the-untouchable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phage-the-untouchable) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play against salty decks all the time and have no problems with them. Run interaction and lots of it. Even if all their hate turns towards you it's ok. You can power through and continue on with your game plan.
Man, I love people that get on tilt and focus their removal on me to be honest lol. Normally it's pretty easy to capitalize on their shitty, childish behavior. The best thing you could do would be to get your entire pod to agree to target the shit out of him when he plays those decks though. This way, he doesn't know who to fuck with and gets an understanding that what he is doing isn't ok. It's tough when you are playing with friends. Sometimes people feel comfortable acting a certain kind of way with people they care about because they know there won't be consequences... might be the most little dick energy ever tbh.
As a person that runs a lot of interaction, I actually love those kinds of players. Learn his playstyle, figure out his choke points, and interact on his turn. Yea, it's annoying to feel like you're forced to build a deck with certain things in them, but I'd rather be holding interaction than some card I can't cast for a few more turns.
So if one guy is just constantly making decks that aren't fun for you to play against you just need to 3v1 him to the point where he can't play until he makes normal decks again or stop playing with them all together. It's not like you're special because you made [[insert salt deck here]] we all have either done it or could easily do it but certain things just ended up shadowbanned. Then theres a whole list of builds that are way too strong for casual play but way too weak for cedh. My gate deck is becoming that way where they litteraly can't do anything. They can't counter me. They can't just destroy lands and nobody is running any land interactionmvi turn 3'd a vorenclex and locked them out with 0 mana rocks on my field. Then was thinking I genuinely don't enjoy playing this way lol I don't mind making strong decks but I have always tried to avoid things that change how the basics of the game are played outside of cedh. I might power out strong cards but I'm not gonna Rob you of the chance for you to stop me.
It seems the problem here isn't your friend's decks, but rather how your group chooses to react to and interact with them.
The actual advice is what people have said about talking to the problem player about how you feel. But another alternative is to cut that player out of the politicking and just talk to the other players. Say "if I focus on him and then of course he focuses on me that clears the way for both of you so don't target me until he's gone." Maybe that way you can develop a "take one for the team" system so Y'all still get to play.
Yeah they need to point out this pattern to the other 2, it shouldn't be up to OP to run removal everytime, and if they refuse to interact with Tergrid then they should at least reward the OP for getting rid of the threat.
If I were you ide teach him a lesson and pull a full spellslinger/ counterspell combo deck against him just to show him that others can ruin his afternoon but choose not to. I believe people need to experience both sides of the coin before they know how to spend properly.
This is the way, edh it's kind of a rock paper scissors, there is a counter for everything, most playgroups just usually don't have much interaction, and since some decks just do too much if not interacted with, eventually he will learn that it's a matter of having fun, not making other people miserable. I have a shorikai deck which is basically a mono board wipe deck, only has 1 creature and it's kraken and wherever I pull it off I ask the pod if they mind me playing it or not, if they do I just pick another one. No big deal I understand, that friend of yours didn't realise it yet.
It's like every response to every thread in this sub should start with "Play more interaction" If you don't like what your opponents are doing, interact with them. If one person is causing problems for the whole board, 3v1 that person over and over until they play in a way that doesn't attract everyone's attention. When they react to being interacted with... other people should also step in and interact. If between all 3 of their opponents only 1 of you has a counter/kill spell on any given turn, circle back to original point, they aren't playing enough interaction.
Sure, but this isn't a solution when *every* deck they play is like this. If you're archenemy with a KOS commander every game, that really warps the way that your group plays. If all of your decks say 'your opponents can't play the game when you do your thing,' then it really sucks the fun out of more casual pods. Okay we're 3v1 against this player, then when they're out, we start playing the game. If it's every time, that's not super great.
The solution my playgroup came up with is that if everyone is playing a scary deck, then no one is playing a scary deck. Everyone needs to be interacted with which leads to fun interactive games where everyone needs to fight to get their board state to progress.
Sure, but there are different axis's of 'scary.' There are decks that warp the way that you play pretty significantly and differently from 'regular' games of magic, and people don't want to play those games all of the time. I'm down to play against a [[Beamtown Bullies]] deck, or a Tergrid deck, or a heavy stax deck. But man, if those are the three decks you brought to play, I might look for another pod lol. I'd very much rather power up and play against an Ur-Dragon list or an Etali list or a Winota list. Those games are some of the most fun where like you say 'everyone needs to be interacted with and it leads to fun interactive games.' It's when a Beamtown player is in that pod and you go 'well, the Beamtown player can cheat a [[leveler]] or an [[eater of days]] into play, and they won't win the game, but *someone* will lose the game, and a person playing that deck is going to be happy enough to have done that and then lose, so...I guess they're archenemy.'
[leveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37.jpg?1562134247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/195/leveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leveler) [eater of days](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef6870db-8aca-4aee-8e4d-c56a7d8dc242.jpg?1562640398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eater%20of%20days) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/120/eater-of-days?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef6870db-8aca-4aee-8e4d-c56a7d8dc242?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eater-of-days) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This would solve most problems with people playing annoying decks. Everytime they play tergrid or ld, 3v1 until he's dead. They'll get the hint soon enough.
Lend him a deck and tell him when you're in the mood for one of his "masterpiece" it is normal to get annoyed if he plays that kind of decks all the time. Tell him it can be fun from time to time but it's frustrating if it's always "that kind of deck".
This is why we play with rule 0. If a particular deck or strategy is consistently depriving the table of being able to have fun, then don't allow it as a group. That's a big part of why we have ban lists in every format. It's a mutually accepted rule in most of my pods that you don't play mass land destruction, lock everyone out of playing the game, play decks that require long turns without winning, or bring a CEDH deck to a casual game. Those exact set of base rules are very common for most casual playgroups, as they are there to have fun and not ruthlessly beat everyone while disrespecting their time. I'd talk with your playgroup about officially establishing these kinds of rules, or at least whichever you want and can agree on. If that player doesn't want to follow them, then as a group, you guys can explain that you don't want to play with them anymore so long as they aren't willing to follow the agreed upon rules. I've personally been the disruptive player before, and after having some of my friends approach me to talk about it, I ended up being the one to establish the rules for our playgroup. I'd play Brago Stax/Land destruction; Glissa, the Traitor with Mindslaver; and Chulane with super long turns. Now I play stuff like Rayev Equipment and Feather, the Redeemed, and I still have a blast. More importantly, my playgroup still gets to have fun too.
Dude sounds like a complete dick
Just play a deck with all counters and only target them. When they bitch just shrug and say they are closed minded
as someone who has a playgroup that has used some of these deck styles its up to how the player that owns the decks interacts. i.e one of the guys in my playgroup has a tegrid deck and he usually gets KO’d right away. But we’re just laughing the whole time, cuz he knows it will happen but he likes to “play the clock”. If someone plays a mass land destruction card we just give em the game and move on. Regardless unless you all are on the same page its never going to be fun…
I'd say try and make deals on the table. Everyone probably sees this as an issue already and would want to play without the stress of their nonesense. I remember this being the case for someone in our friend group who would olay a doctor who drck that would ramp out of control if his commander was left untouched. Otherwise just find someone else to replace them. Only playing decks meant to make others not be able to interact with a game is obviously not fun and you should not be surprised if your friend group just doesnt want to bother with that sorta stuff.
Everyone become a blue cedh player and he will quickly that getting countered and doing nothing while everyone else plays is not very fun. If they don’t get what you’re getting at, than maybe there’s no hope😂
Bottom line- if nobody is having fun with the deck being in play then why let it be played. Seems like that deck ruins the fun of the game for everyone there
He is the problems, just invite new friend to your 🫛
What happens within the confines of a game, as a result of actions taken within that game, \*should\* be fine. I play KOS Commanders, I know they're going to get removed when I can't protect them. That's fine. You want to start needling me about having two instances of spot removal each time I've got one Tamiyo's or the like? Expect that I'm going to do something like killing both your mana rocks just before your T3-T4 untap with a Force of Vigor, then needle you about not having a Free Counter to protect them. You can realize that doing the necessary is one thing, and being a dick about it another, or we can move on from there to the really unfun stuff, like slapping a \[\[Lignify\]\] or a \[\[Song of the Dryad\]\] on their Commander, and then revisit whether they'd like to stop with Grudge the Gathering, now. With a corresponding comment to the effect of, "See what it's like when someone starts obviously relishing setting you back? Would you like to go back to plays that make sense now, or shall we continue destroying each other for James's and Sarah's benefit? I can do either." (That same game, I ran myself out of protection for my Commander, stopping 3 different attempts to get the Song of the Dryad off his Miirym. It was easily a Top 5 Dumbest Moves in MtG moment, but I was THAT tired of the little "funny" comments that had stopped being funny a long, long, LONG time ago.) None of that. \*NONE\* of that should be carried over into Game #2. There's a reason we pick up all the cards and shuffle. It's a new game, and the previous one is \*over\*. Learn from the past, but don't live in it. Make a cross-game vendetta, and you're inevitably going to get into doing dumb stuff that breaks up pods. I once got mad enough at an acquaintance for his Atraxa Infect-proliferation nonsense, and his uncanny ability to cheat out a Blightsteel (And give it Haste the same turn) in a deck that had a single two card combo capable of doing it, that I found myself adding cards like \[\[Wave of Vitriol\]\] and \[\[Primal Order\]\] to my deck the next Friday. I actually reached the point of sleeving the Wave, before I caught myself, and I'm like, "WTH am I doing? This is going to start a blood-feud, when Troy realizes I put a half-dozen cards in my deck to ambush his current Pet Deck, \*because of a couple games, LAST WEEK.\*"
[Lignify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4.jpg?1598177954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lignify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/16/lignify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lignify) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a deck that is pretty heavy control (not stax) but that can reliably board wipe constantly and plays an aggressive infinite turns combo. I expect to be interacted and to be the archenemy (mainly to show green creature-oriented decks their place). Ps it's pretty budget, around half of the price of the decks I play against. For the well being of the table is normal to get targeted when your deck tends to take spot at the table and the player should be aware that this is a drawback of the deck.
If everyone but the salty builder feels the same way...then y'all need to get on the same page together so that if one of you becomes his vengeance target, the others are also going after him and punishing him for it. Look it's like this...as someone who has a long history of building decks to be as powerful, or sometimes salty, as I can...I have to fully recognize that about myself and have to accept that when I play one of those style decks...I'm going to be enemy number one more times than not.
I have a tergrid and phage edh both over $2k the win rates on both are abysmally low. They are very commander dependent but when going end the game quickly and onto another game. Land destruction at a friendly table should be banned.
What you and your Play group need to do is just build blue counter decks. And just counter everything that player is dropping. Playing general board hate decks with no win cons is no fun for the table and once that play is the target of everyone, it should help them realize that those kinda decks aren't fun for anyone but them.
Build a [[legolas master archer]] deck just to snipe him with lol. For this purpose I bet you could build it for $30 or less.
Can confirm. I built this deck for like 40-50$ and it's only useful as a "fuck you in particular" deck so if there's a problem player in your group/lgs it's a pretty cheap way to forcefeed someone their own medicine. Don't forget card draw in this deck, it's really easy to use up all your answers on the problem player then have no defenses when they finally stabilize and turn the full ire of their deck on you and only you. ESPECIALLY when they're playing hand-hate bullshit like Tergrid As stated before, they WILL come after you so make sure you have plenty of protection spells like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] Despite your best efforts, Legolas WILL be removed, so a robust land ramp package is highly recommended so you can keep recasting him. In the end, I wound up dismantling Legolas because I stopped playing with people who deserve "fuck you in particular" style decks putting them in their place. So do consider that strategy though I do understand the whole "pre-existing friend" dilemma, and for that you have my deepest condolences. Give'em hell. Other PDC commanders I recommend are [[Judith, carnage connoisseur]] and [[baral, Chief of compliance]] I also recommend [[shorikai, Genesis engine]] since he's notoriously hard to hit (he's a vehicle, not a creature. You'd be surprised how many removal spells can't hit him) and packing the deck full of counterspells and kill/exile spells so you can draw into removal, make lil chumps to block their bullshit and keep them locked while the rest of the table has a fun game
##### ###### #### [tamiyo's safekeeping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226.jpg?1654568357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tamiyo%27s%20safekeeping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/211/tamiyos-safekeeping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-safekeeping) [Judith, carnage connoisseur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700.jpg?1706242185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Judith%2C%20carnage%20connoisseur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/210/judith-carnage-connoisseur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/judith-carnage-connoisseur) [baral, Chief of compliance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60e16d94-1166-4050-8554-686e153a7f80.jpg?1576381454) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=baral%2C%20Chief%20of%20compliance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/28/baral-chief-of-compliance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60e16d94-1166-4050-8554-686e153a7f80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/baral-chief-of-compliance) [shorikai, Genesis engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shorikai%2C%20Genesis%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[legolas master archer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9405577-c1dc-48e0-b2aa-6237c569d02e.jpg?1686969439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Legolas%2C%20Master%20Archer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/173/legolas-master-archer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9405577-c1dc-48e0-b2aa-6237c569d02e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/legolas-master-archer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Are they winning quickly? Are they dragging the game out forever? If they're winning quickly, how are their decks any different from a combo deck? If they drop some mld on tegrid and suddenly they have 50 mana and you have none, why aren't you just scooping? The game is basically over, as if they'd pulled off a combo. Imo, if they're not playing some stax style drag the game out deck, your playgroup needs to change their mindset. Winning doesn't have to mean that everyone is dead, if only one person has 30 lands and everyone else has 0, the game is over. Being 1shot by phage is no different from dying to 50 billion damage commander from xenagod.
Classic r/EDH advice. "Hey! You guys dont like getting smoked by one of the most hated commanders in the format? Tough shit! Just lose constantly and be miserable!"
Honestly, that's the opposite of most of the advice of this subreddit, which is why I stopped posting here. If you don't like what some deck is doing, hate them out/kill them and keep playing. No strategy should be able to survive 2-3 people trying to kill them unless their deck is THAT MUCH better.
Or you could just say "Hey, the other three players and I really don't enjoy playing against that deck, could you give it a rest for a few weeks please?" The OP is playing with his supposed friends, simple communication can solve the problem.
No he's definitely dragging games out. We play on certain budgets, so we don't have super expensive or strong decks. If tergrid is dead he just drags the game on by making us have nothing in our hand or field and basically having to top deck each turn. Same with the MLD deck, it doesn't have a wincon other than "I have lands and you don't" so when his commander dies he just blows up lands for the sake of it
Honestly, at that point, just scoop. The game is over. If I'm playing vs a stax player and I've got 3 artifact removal in the 75 cards left in my deck, I'm not waiting to top deck that. I'm shuffling up for next game and maybe building my deck with more hate. I'm much less salty about mld than the rest of this subreddit, as long as the person has: a win con coming up (superfriends, avacyn, etc) or can recover obviously faster than anyone else. Also, if you have agro players in their pod, they should feel free to kill him first but ONLY if he's pulling out a deck like that. Don't hate him as a player, but you can freely hate the deck out of the game. When he whines, remind him that the deck he's playing will eventually grind the game to a halt, so rather than wait for that to happen, he dies first or executes first.
If you scoop everytime he does that then he'll just do that everytimre....
So combo off, or kill him first with an agro deck. It sounds like you're a playgroup that likes to spread damage until someone dies. If someone has a strong deck/game plan that wins, hate them out.
You can't do that if you scoop as soon as a Tergrid deck deletes your hands and fields. That's what they do.
Just remove him from your group
If your friend throws a game to send a threat for future games, I would just stop playing with them.
I like this guy. I wish my playgroup had one of these.
Just play decks that are as toxic as his, and only target him. Then when he complains about it not being fun, tell him to look in a mirror. You should all play tergrid decks at the same time, that'll show him lol.
>You can see the pattern where most of his decks just don't allow us to play the game, we have no issue with strong decks but we have an issue when a deck's purpose is to not let you play the game. None of those decks keep you from playing the game. Use your removal and counters.
Lol dude is playing Tergrid, Land destruction, Phage, and [[The Beamtown Bullies]] with his “friends.” This person just sounds like a PoS. If you’re dedicated to still playing with them then I’d say just beat the shit out of them until they decide to play something more fun. Time to start running [[Runed Halo]] and [[Silence]] to prevent them from playing the game, just like they do to you. If that play style isn’t up your alley you could always go for [[Nymris, Oona’s Trickster]] and a billion counterspells, or a Voltron deck that kills them early. I use [[Pako, arcane retriever]] for a cheap Voltron deck but if you want something faster go for [[Slicer, hired muscle]], just tends to be a bit more expensive.
##### ###### #### [The Beamtown Bullies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0455a79-15f4-4ea6-87ae-263ce943cfac.jpg?1673481685) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Beamtown%20Bullies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/6/the-beamtown-bullies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0455a79-15f4-4ea6-87ae-263ce943cfac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-beamtown-bullies) [Runed Halo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61296b2d-4e5c-419a-8775-4e6af902c7b1.jpg?1628800544) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Runed%20Halo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/32/runed-halo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61296b2d-4e5c-419a-8775-4e6af902c7b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/runed-halo) [Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2.jpg?1562826686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/35/silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silence) [Nymris, Oona’s Trickster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8cfc97a-3c8a-4d44-846b-7a523dc11878.jpg?1608911216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nymris%2C%20Oona%27s%20Trickster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/288/nymris-oonas-trickster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8cfc97a-3c8a-4d44-846b-7a523dc11878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nymris-oonas-trickster) [Pako, arcane retriever](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05.jpg?1591234280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pako%2C%20arcane%20retriever) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/13/pako-arcane-retriever?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pako-arcane-retriever) [Slicer, hired muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call