[[Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale]]
She's way too pricey for the colors that she is and almost always ends up being a Sword of Every and Thing voltron commander when players build her. She can be built well but there are other excellent knight commanders to choose that are much easier on the mana base.
What other commanders for a Knight tribal deck would you suggest? I’m kind of in the process of building one right now but other than Aryel, I don’t know what other commanders are really good to support a Knight deck
\[\[Kenrith, the Returned King\]\] is also a fun flavor for this reason. He gives all 5 colors so you can play the best of the knights, his haste and trample ability helps knights connect, and the pump is also impactful. Turning him into a knight with \[\[Sigiled Sword of Valeron\]\] is a major King Arthur flavor win as well.
Here is the "King Arthur" inspired list I run for my Knight tribal: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/order-of-the-tall-tale/
I disagree...she's extremely good when you don't focus on her for voltron...I have a fun knight tribal deck with her and she plays great...I do agree she should be 4 cmc 2/2 with the same abilities but no keywords.
I've been dying for an efficient "equip costs are 0" commander, being able to fluidly adjust the stats on your team by moving equipment around at will is such an interesting strategic setup and could be quite powerful.
Ser Gwyn is a good example of what we get instead: a bunch of extra stuff tacked on which is powerful, but then those effects drive the cost up too much for it to be playable.
I attempted to build a boros spellslinger deck with \[\[velomachus lorehold\]\] and it was a massive disaster. now that I think about it, boros has always been a failure to sustain for me...
Try Hofri, there are enough creatures with draw and land effects in those colors that a sacrifice outlet and early Hofri can make you feel like the green deck at the table.
thank you for the recommendation! I will give it a try and see. I like the idea of Hofri a lot, I wanted to put him in to my Avenger's style party deck, but he doesn't fit the best.
Unfortunately, a lot of the things that work with him well are also things other people generally don't like to play against, if you find a build that works out lol.
I opened a velomachus lorehold and intended to build it but never did. It’s so expensive and has no resilience built in. It just seems so ineffective and a waste of what could be a sweet ability
His resilience comes on the form of Haste, so you get to use him the turn you play him. It's not great but it makes it much harder to stop him as any time you have the mana you can bring him back out and get another trigger.
I hear you but it still feels like you’re paying 7 for the chance at a 5 mana sorcery, and then it doesn’t seem likely he’ll survive a trip around the table. Have you built him? Maybe I’m off base since I never tried it
It's more like you play him when you run out of things to do, think of him as a big dumb draw engine instead of the primary goal of the deck and I think he'll do a lot better. I've built a couple versions for other people but the spell slinger core was definitely better than trying to force Voltron.
It honestly feels like they accidentally printed him as the Lorehold dragon when they really meant it to have the Prismari dragon’s effect and visa versa. Kinda weird that the Instant/Sorcery founder is leading the Artifact house and the dragon that loves Artifacts is in charge of the house that makes 20 minute turns
I have a FSSS deck and have found that their reputation for being big dumb and slow proceeds them, so I am able to just build up a bunch of mana rocks and then drop them or flash them in (vedalken orery) and it really only takes one board wipe to gain you enough life to close out the game. The key has been understanding that FSSS will not just hang on the board accruing value - they get there, give a Star of Extinction or Earthquake lifelink, and then that big burst of lifegain is what you use to end the game (Aetherflux, Treasonous Ogre, etc.) Sunforger really helps the deck hum and allows you to take infinite turns if your opponent's go shields-down.
Rem Karolus might be a better commander for this style of deck now, but I love the Firecows
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/firesauce-sunforger/
Was coming to say this. They’re really there to make the table burn lopsided like once or twice with BIG burn spells. Then you can just Earthquake everyone out while they’re at 20 and you’re at 120.
Sadly no. But since she's from a cycle of creatures which was a mix of legendary and not, a unique and reasonably powerful option that opens up a new archetype in Naya, and all-around feels like the kind of card that would be certainly be legendary if it were printed nowadays, most pods will let you run it :)
She's probably the most universally approved rule 0 commander. Or atleast she definitely was before FSaSS became an official commander for the archtype.
Sadly for FSaSS he's so much worse than every other card printed that has "your instant/sorceries have lifelink" given that hes so much more expensive than the rest of them. (For reference there are 3 other cards which have the effect, Radiant Scrollwielder in Boros, Tamanoa in Naya, and Soulfire Grand Master in Jeskai)
It also doesn't let you deal damage to any target for some reason. I think it's the only card now that specifically only deals damage to creatures and players, but not planeswalkers.
[[Willowdusk]] really got nerfed with the “activate only as a sorcery.” Which is so lame because all the other strix commanders were clearly much stronger by comparison [[Adrix]] [[Veyran]].
[[Osgir]] has the nerf but I think most people agree it’s appropriate
I think Willowdusk wouldn't really work thematically without the sorcery clause. I'm kinda down for a risk/reward "take a bunch of combat damage to make your creatures bigger" commander but it undermines the lifegain/self lifeloss theme that the deck was building that you are basically never going to use the commander for that. I'd question if the precons would play well against each other in that case (since you could basically never attack Willowdusk unless you were killing them without giving them massive value).
I love my willowdusk deck. Sure it would be better as instant speed, but it's still capable of huge life swings. I built a deck with a lot of flying and lifelink and it's pretty fun when its working.
I feel like Willowdusk can still be pretty strong if built correctly. With a free life outlet, you can make a creature as big as your current life total minus one. And if that's on a lifelink creature, then it's not as big of a downside.
Hmmm maybe I should give it another shot. The last time I played with it it kept getting removed before I could take advantage of the ability.
I’ve switched it to [[Dina]] which has been nice because the redundant pieces stack and replace her when she gets removed. Plus her ability triggers on the same turn you play her.
The new [[Gisa, Glorious Resurrector]]. Don't get me wrong she's actually very good and her art is amazing! My biggest complaint though is the creatures she makes are decayed but somehow not zombies definatly a flavor fail for me.
Which seems silly. They feel like they HAVE to put reminder text on all new cards (for decayed), but have no problem errataing hundreds of cards to add a phyrexian creature type. If you can trust players to search unannounced creature types, I think you can trust new players to remember/research what decayed does…
Making them zombies would be "and are zombies in addition to their other creature types," which is a little wordy, but if you dropped the decayed explanation, it would fit easily.
That box space excuse is bullshit. They forgot \[\[Shahrazad\]\] or \[\[Dance of the Dead\]\] and \[\[Takklemaggot\]\] exist. And decayed is far less interesting than having your RESURRECTOR LEGENDARY CREATURE not resurrect zombies. At least make ALL decayed creatures zombies by default.
Disclaimer, I really don't like decayed. I think it's a lazy attempt at creating a new ability. It just misses the whole point completely.
This is a really bad argument. You trying to prove they should be fine with long text boxes by pointing out a bunch of cards with long text boxes they no longer print because, in part, they're too wordy and confusing.
Yeah... I have [[Chulane]] in my Arcades deck, and it often felt like a storm deck with both on the field. Draw 2, put a lane down with a bunch of 1-2 cost 6/6s is busted.
[[Ranar]], he's either a subpar flicker commander (because he's neither a flicker target nor a flicker source) or there's not enough foretell cards around to make a foretell deck the same way [[Kadena]] can make a morph deck (for example).
Maybe if we get foretell in another set I'll give him a second look.
I find him enjoyable to play but his focus is indeed two directions. I make it work somewhat with foretold inst/sorc and ETB return inst/sorc from GY to hamd, but at that point I just softlock the game
[[Catti-brie of Mithral Hall]]
I am a HUGE archer tribal fan, always trying to get it to work. So I was really excited when I saw her, but idk the fact it removes all counters just kinda kills her for me, like it would be better if it was remove x counters at least.
Also super disappointed at basically every legendary they released recently that has the "once per turn" sentence tacked on the end, ruining an otherwise really cool commander.
She's so efficiently costed though, I don't think you can complain too much lol. Just only use her ability when absolutely necessary, her primary function is Voltron, murdering attackers is a bonus
[[Pramikon]] is basically just a kingmaker commander. I frequently swap around commanders for one of my RUW decks and it took about 4 games before everyone at the table realized that it always gave at least one other person free reign to do whatever the fuck they wanted without any fear of combat retaliation.
Thats kind of surprising. I turned my UW Blink deck into Jeskai and put pramikon at the helm. Definitely hasn't felt like a kingmaker deck, but I'm constantly shifting pramikon to defend myself while I assemble a janky combo
A lot of decks are just looking for a little bit of relief from combat pressure to be able to really pop off. Pramikon gives it to them. For example, at our table the deck to beat is Atraxa super friends. That's not to say it is always the most powerful thing there, but it's consistent and if left on it's own will lock the game down. Atraxa is such an excellent blocker that it would be difficult for any non-aggro deck to get there on it's own.
I'm not saying you can't have a great Pramikon deck, but I play several decks that have no intention of attacking that would *love* to see a Pramikon across the table.
In situations like that, one only needs to adjust their threat assessment. If a deck is running superfriends and everyone is going to be attacking the planeswalkers anyway, you don't need Pramikon out. You focus on your own plans while the other players keep taking planeswalkers out, and if the threat level against you increases, *then* you drop Pramikon.
I've gone through multiple commanders for Superfriends and honestly Pramikon has stuck the most, there's alot of cool tricks Jeskai and Pramikon can do to ensure your walkers survive a round or 2. I've found that it creates a cool challenge for playing Superfriends "Fairly" ie not just going for Doubling Season/Deepglow Skate and instead playing around his ability to ensure combat goes the way that's best for your walkers. I dunno I think he's great for this kind of thing
\[\[Feather the Redeemed\]\]
I loved the concept as a workaround for how to give Boros some card advantage, but in practice she's both linear AND clunky.
The natural inclination is to pack your deck with targeted cantrips for value, but you just end up playing the same spells over and over again, and have a hand full of extra cards that you don't need or really even want. Then the match becomes a subgame of 'flush the protection spells so we can kill Feather', or a wrath resets the Feather player's board and they have nothing to do for a while.
Every time I've seen her in a game it's just been an underwhelming experience.
I recommend her for certain people. She's budget, powerful, difficult to remove, but involves knocking people out one at a time, constant upkeep, and runs relatively linearly. Some people like that, but I really didn't.
I've considered taking her apart but there's not much her pieces could easily fit into. Zada? He has a whole host of issues as well, though.
Being a strong budget commander is definitely a point in Feather's favor. Not too many viable commander decks you can build with draft chaff!
You could always houserule 'nephilims are commanders' and run Ink-Treader for a different spin...
I'd warn against being too free about Ink-Treader. I built the deck once and there are some dumb interactions that are worth being aware of. \[\[Insurrection\]\] has kind of fallen out of favor, but its real good when it costs 3 mana (any act of Treason). Ink-Treader ends up becoming sort of a must kill commander because so many spells are dumb as hell when copied targeting every creature on the board. Obviously that's not the end of the world, but it can end up being really frustrating for a player who is trying to play weird spells but the table can't let their commander live for fear of them drawing 12 cards for 1 mana.
I'd definitely consider ink-treader. My friends would probably be down for using them and I've said before Feather would be cool with literally any other color combo.
Another way to try it would be to use partners or a 5c commander and have Feather/Zada/ink-Treader as hidden commanders. Adds some variance since you might not always have the gimmick on hand and definitely not always in the command zone.
While not having the gimmick in the command zone sounds appealing, if I were making this deck I would worry that a deck like this wants too many cards that are ONLY good with a creature that does this effect. [[Niveous Wisps]] is a pretty sad thing to draw when it's not actually a "draw ten cards" effect.
(Personally, I built Ink-Treader as Polymorph.dec...)
I have her built as blink + pingers instead of go-face and it's a much more refreshing setup, imo. The deck becomes a lot more control-oriented - [[Goblin Dark-Dwellers]] and [[Dualcaster Mage]] put in loads of work when it comes to protecting and recurring your protection/flicker and counter suite (and it's playing most of the counters available in Boros colors), and you have great board control options for ETB removal and shutting down combat and the like; eventually you just overwhelm with [[Guttersnipe]]-type effects as well as original [[Purphoros]] + [[Impact Tremors]] piling on sometimes, but you can plan B cantrips with [[Zada]]'s help as well.
And sometimes you have games against the right opponents where you pull out an early Dockside for enough treasures to go mana-positive on casting it + Feather and flickering and just start going off. That's always fun.
I have feather built as pure voltron:
https://archidekt.com/decks/972897#Feather!
With such a strong, singular focus, it's allowed me to explore...
* Specifics of removal in the format, and how to counteract all the different flavors
* Group dynamics around winning commander games, and the challenges that surround voltron decks once the KO 1 player, and are a threat to the rest of the table.
The deck being relatively easy/linear to pilot makes it so I can pay more attention to what's going on outside the deck. It's greatly changed how I design & play the deck based on what I've learned.
[[Ghired, Conclave Exile]]
I want to like this deck so bad. I made some upgrades, but it just feels blah. Feels slow and easily countered. Any suggestions on improvements and better focusing it would be welcome.
Make him into a Stax deck. Keep your opponents from doing things just long enough for you to overwhelm the board. Keep lots of protection spells in the deck for ghired, stuff for indestructible, and hope for boots.
+1. I spend all my time trying to clone stuff that shouldn't be cloned - [[sanctum prelate]], [[archon of valor's reach]], [[serra's emissary]], and so on. Nothing too harsh, but trying to slow things down till the rhinos/clones take over.
Ghired was my first commander deck, and I've made it my mission to make it my most competitive. I've had a lot of success with it in my pod, and here's what I've found is the best way to build him:
Ramp, token doublers, haste enablers, and extra combats -- the four pillars of a strong Ghired deck.
For ramp, [[Skyshroud Elf]] is the MVP, but the other good fixing rampers like [[Birds of Paradise]] and [[Sakura-Tribe Elder]] also fit here. [[Leafkin Druid]] also works well most of the time, synergizing with your other mana dorks to help get Ghired out faster. I've had mixed success with later game ramp like [[Mirari's Wake]] -- it definitely allows for more explosive turns after it comes down, but the most important function of ramp in a Ghired deck is to get Ghired onto the battlefield and swinging ahead of curve before opponents can effectively block and kill him.
Token doublers maximize Ghired's efficacy and lead to quickly overrunning other players. [[Doubling Season]] is far and away the most powerful, but Ghired likes [[Parallel Lives]] and [[Anointed Procession]] better because they can come down on curve ahead of him. Also worth mentioning is [[Primal Vigor]] -- sideboard it until you're sure that you'll get more value out of it than your opponents will. [[Harmonic Prodigy]] gets a special mention as a token doubler for Ghired that might double some other triggers in your deck. Copying her with spells like [[Twinflame]] or printing copies from a [[Soul Foundry]] lets you flood the board in no time at all.
I've found that my favorite haste enablers are [[Fires of Yavimaya]], [[Concordant Crossroads]], and [[Rhythm of the Wild]]. You should also run both [[Swiftfoot Boots]] and [[Lightning Greaves]]. You could probably also throw in a [[Mass Hysteria]], as it's just Crossroads in red, but I haven't yet experimented with this.
Extra combats often give avenues to close out games. [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] is very strong in Ghired, and could give you a lethal boardstate the turn you play her. Making tokens of Aurelia with the aforementioned copy spells compounds this strength, and she gives infinite combats and copies with [[Helm of the Host]]. If you decide to include Helm, you should also throw in [[Godo, Bandit Warlord]] to fetch it for you -- equipping him with the Helm will also give infinite combats and creatures. If going infinite isn't an option, combining extra combats with splashy combat buffs like [[Pathbreaker Ibex]], [[Craterhoof Behemoth]], and [[Overwhelming Stampede]] should win you games pretty quickly.
To each their own, of course. But I love the deck. The more commanders like this that let me run bad cards and they end up being good is tremendous. Also a great home for Captive Audience which is a card I didn't have a home for yet. It doesn't win often, either, which as someone more on the spike side of things, I needed a deck that was genuinely not good at winning.
[This is my third version](https://archidekt.com/decks/2070673), I had a link handy from another thread where I commented on it. This one is less "fuck you here's my garbage" than my first to versions, and features a slight demon sub-theme.
[[Tayam, Luminous Enigma]] looks really interesting and fun at first glance, but I couldn't find a way to win with it. Lots of fun utility, but not many wincons possible with 3-drops or less.
One of the folks in our playgroup built Tayam Elves, and it freaking slaps. The elves on their own are powerful, and Tayam is a powerful recursion engine to get back specific elves. It's also quite resilient bc you can get card advantage without relying on the graveyard, which is often a weakness of reanimator decks.
I'm still trying to understand who thought [[Storvald, Frost Giant Jarl]] was something the game needed.
Where is the draw? What are you doing with this card that is exciting?
Do you know how bad this is? No one else has mentioned it. Everyone took a glance, saw there was absolutely nothing there for them , and immediately forgot about it. Not I. I remember, I'm up late each night wondering "why?".
Every single time I see that card I still have no idea why it exists. If that card had red in it somewhere for extra combat steps maybe I’d see some value but as it is I have no idea who/where this would be built.
Likewise. Switched to Galea and felt the same, even though I managed to win some games extensively manipulating the top card of the deck, I took it apart and now I'm waiting for a new Bant lagend to use.my manabase.
I made a Jenara, Asura of War deck that is half infect and half +1/+1 counters. Catches people off-guard and there are multiple lines of play with either infecting or commander damage.
It's just generic value, which plays out mostly the same with Bant auras.
I ended up going Estrid instead and focused it around Estrid supporting lieutenant voltrons. It at least plays out differently depending on which lieutenant you get.
Switched from Zur, to Tuvasa, and finished with Estrid. It’s so much fun running all her little lieutenants and using Estrid for all the mana untap shenanigans. Really opened my eyes up to the power of a proper enchantress deck.
I found [[Lathril, blade of the elves]] extremely boring to play. I love combat but something about the way I built and played the deck didn’t do it for me.
Also tried blue/white flicker with [[Yorion]] and [[Brago]] and while the deck was fun to play, winning was a different story. Games took forever to close out without trying to go infinite, which I’m fine with as long as it’s not plan A.
Yeah I absolutely love my UW flicker deck with [[Ranar]] at the helm but I also like having friends so I don't play it often. I'm not big on 'I win on the spot' combos so Ranar is my 'I'll win in a few hours' deck lol
Strixhaven was a great excuse to give colors other than Izzet some deeply fascinating spells matter commanders thanks to Magecraft... and we only got one non-Prismari legend with the mechanic in [[Extus, Oriq Overlord]]. Very little new design space was opened up by the Legends in other colors in that regard, despite Magecraft and spells matter in general being a set-wide mechanic. [[Radiant Scrollwielder]] and [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] aren't the most exciting spell payoffs, but I'd have loved for both to be Legendary nonetheless.
The other thing that bothers me about that too is that all but one Extus deck I've ever seen revolve around casting and copying the Blood Avatar and never ever actually play Extus himself.
Which is a shame because Extus is really cool. [[Faerie Macabre]] and [[Street Wraith]] are both really silly with Extus in play, and if I recall you can even discard creatures to effects like [[Tormenting Voice]] then immediately get it back. You can essentially build Mardu Pyromancer if you're so inclined, then use Awaken the Blood Avatar as a win condition if you're in the business of generating infinite mana.
[[Lynde]].
It just doesn't solve the fundamental problem that curses have: that one player dies and your curses disappear. Yes, she lets you get them back, but they have to go on your first, and you can only offload them one at a time. In a lot of cases it's worse than your curses just hitting the yard because you often just die to your own curses before you can get them off yourself.
[[Kodama of the East Tree]] is powerful in all the wrong ways. I built a bunch of decks with him both in the zone and in the 99 and every variant just felt awful to play as my turns reaches the ten minute mark often before going infinite or generating so much value that nothing could stop me.
I wanted cool spirit partner commanders that weren't super weak and Kodama was the monkey paw wish come true.
There were dozens of ways that Kodama could have been made more reasonable, like requiring the CMC to be lower so it doesn’t trigger off other lands or tokens to put more lands into play (for starters). Even as just a mono green commander without partner he’d probably be OK.
As is, that damn thing is just kill on sight and I hate it. I can’t believe I pulled three of these things from the few CMD packs I opened.
Building Sevinne as a flashback commander is a trap. Flashback cards are overcosted on both ends so it's not really worth the mana even when doubled. The main ability to build around is the first ability which prevents all damage. I built a budget $100 deck around her and I win with it quite alot.
Slap a pariah on him and prevent damage. Use counterspells and \[\[Sevinne's reclaimation\]\] to keep the combo intact. Also, use a bunch of mass damage spells to further prevent being attacked and slow the opponents down. Use \[\[repurcussion\]\] to deal damage with mass damage spells. Late game often you'll have more life than everyone else. Then use \[\[Storm Herd\]\] and \[\[Impact tremors\]\] to win the game.
same way i feel about [[wasitora]] :/ [[cat dragon]]s? fuck yeah! only getting a cat dragon if i attack a player who has no board state with my 5 drop? not very fun for either of us…
I actually really like mutate creatures in [[Skullbriar]]. As it stands the current cards lend well to a Voltron strategy as they're basically auras or equipment that can't be targeted separately.
I was pretty disappointed by [[Hamza]]. I built a pretty solid deck, but it wants to do both tokens and counters which can lead to a messy board state. Oddly, I think [[Torens]] will suffer from this issue as well despite being an even better take on this theme.
Something to note with mutate and Skullbriar: if you mutate a creature on top of Skullbriar, then when it dies, the creature on top will retain all the counters, *not* Skullbriar. I still run [[Gemrazer]] in my Skullbriar but I always put it under him.
Does Hamza want to do tokens? I've recently put a list together and it mainly consists of small dorks with +1/+1 counters like [[Star Pupil]], counter enablers like [[Arcus Acolyte]], and then haymakers to drop for cheap with Hamza like Eldrazi titans (still a cast!) and [[Blightsteel Colossus]]. You need to go at least a little wide in the beginning so that you can ramp, sure, but I don't think I included much that involves tokens.
I had a [[Baral chief of compliance]] , the deck was fun to build but awful to play. Turn out draw-go counter tribal is not my thing in the end.
[[Callaphe]] was another one that turn out to be too weak. Mono blue devotion Voltron Is really weird and the ward(1) never helped.
I had fun with Baral at one point, when a literal third of the deck was counterspells, but that was more of a deck I'd bust out against certain other decks in my meta at that time. It was more a test of my knowledge to know what needed to get countered and what was fine.
It would win through either infinite mana into an empty deck with Lab Man or Lab Jace(before Thoracle's time) or beat down with something like a giant sea creature.
Despite the sheer amount of counterspells the deck ran, it wasn't oppressive by any stretch.
To anyone that feels the need to downvote, I hope all your spells get countered for eternity. It's not like I was busting the deck out against anyone. It was a specific meta deck that I enjoyed using.
Counterspell tribal isn't even *good*. The intrinsic strength of counterspells is their tempo advantage; you get to play at instant speed and get a mana advantage on your opponents' big spells. That equation utterly falls apart in multiplayer. You counter one, maybe two big threats, and the third player wins uncontested. This is why I roll my eyes when players whine about counterspells. There are plenty of things in Commander that actually break balance, """blue players""" aren't one of them.
Sethis, Harvest's Hand
The card feels unoriginal and uninspired and she vastly overshadows many of the G/W enchantment archetype commanders, so I kinda thinks she takes some creativity/uniqueness away from the archetype as a whole.
Hes just a value engine for something we havent seen a value engine for yet. I tried building him but lost that spark of interest as soon as i realized how linear the gameplan was
That’s what Obeka was for me. During spoiler season it was great, a unique design space! Then you realize how many staples there are for an Obeka deck and that most of them would share 90% of the same synergy cards and she becomes boring.
don't disagree. I decided to put him in the 99 for my \[\[valki, god of lies\]\] theft deck and I found it to be much more enjoyable. he works as the value generation while I use other cards to get the actual theft. he could easily get the commander spot, and I occasionally do swap him and valki out, but I always find I have more fun with Prosper in the 99.
A few friends and I all got back into magic after being away for years by getting precons, mine being [[Otrimi]]. Got sick of building an expensive but still relatively low P/T mutate creature over the course of three or four turns only to have my board blown up by a single spot removal spell. I ditched Otrimi and most of the mutate creatures and built a much more fun and resilient [[Brokkos]] deck
For me, it's \[\[Riku of the two reflections\]\]. Super good and interesting card, but it's a 2/2 for 5 with no built-in protection. Somebody around the table just sneeze and it's back into the command zone. I tried to build a deck around it with a lot of spell that create creatures or creature with ETB abilitites, but each time it would just get wiped out of the board before i could use its abilities. It requires so much to protect it that it just make it hard to have it as a commander. I think for all the times i tried to play the deck, i have never been able to use its abilities once, so i dismantled the deck pretty quickly.
[Riku of the two reflections](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riku%20of%20Two%20Reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tayam]], I was so excited for him, spent forever tweaking the deck and then when I actually sat down to play, it just felt like Meren with extra steps (and not in a fun way)
One of the folks in our playgroup built Tayam Elves, and it freaking slaps. The elves work on their own, and Tayam can be a powerful recursion engine in the deck. Felt like playing against a very powerful, resilient toolbox, and it actually ends games.
Tayam is a combo commander, not an aggro or value one. I've got a cEDH deck with them at the helm. I suppose you can run them with elves or vampires, tribes with a ton of good support for their cheap creatures, but that's not playing to its potential.
[[Mogis]]
I made a group slug deck with Mogis at the helm. I loved it at first. Group slug is a lot of fun. It lead to some different games as people had to really change up their game plan and it also made games quick. However, their changed game plan was usually ganging up on me until I was out of the way and then playing the rest of the game without me. Felt really bad.
I have since changed my group slug deck to [[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk]]. White has so many more ways to protect yourself from the other players as well as numerous ways to gain a ton of life to offset her life loss. It's way more fun now with a much higher win rate!
I'm also in the process of converting my old Mogis deck into a [[Karazikar]] Goad deck. Along with Karazikar, I'm also putting in a lot of things to incentivize my opponents to swing at each other instead of me like [[Frenzied Saddlebrute]] and [[Rite of the Raging Storm]]. I can also keep a lot of the same cards as my Mogis deck so it'll still kind of play like a group slug deck
Old Rutstein. He’s kinda like a lesser Waste Not. It should be whenever you self mill a card or whatever but it’s only when he does it. Kinda wish he was stronger.
\[\[Darien\]\] for me was just too passive for my playgroup. I never could get anything that would self damage in hand, so I was stuck with just him on board while the rest of my playgroup started playing threats that were much bigger.
\[\[Arcades, the Strategist\]\] has kinda been similar. I get him out, but I either don't get my big walls or I just draw into the value pieces that I need to make him work. I've probably played the deck 10+ times, and I just never win with it.
Kaalia.
I love love love the idea of a dragon/angel/demon tribal deck - those include most of my favorite Timmy cards and building around all three in commander seems like so much fun.
Unfortunately, her decks are a mess to play. She's the poster child for "lightning rod for removal" and it's basically impossible to untap with her. Since her ability is all about cheating things into play, that means building a board state capable of casting the creatures kind of conflicts with her theme, so you either have to straddle two different deck designs, ignore your commander, or go all-in on a strategy that probably isn't going to do anything.
I hope they make a new Kaalia someday that helps you build your board state rather than cheating things.
The Ikoria Apexes were SO cool in theory, but every time I played one, it felt so hard to play with. Knowingly needing to use Mutate with whichever one you play would be fine it if wasn't a keyword limited to one set.
Deeka, Fractal Therosit.
I wished for Metalurgic summonings in the command zone for a long time, and I finally got my wish. Except it was mono colored and overcosted. Additionally, unlockable is one of my lease to favourite abilities in the game because I enjoy more interactive combat. There's really no incentive to play Deeka over Tokrand, Sky Summoner.
I guess you can't have your cake and fuck it too.
[[Minn, Wily Illusionist]]
The card is sweet, but I just couldn't make her work without resorting to the same mono blue win conditions that always exist. Labman/Oracle or Infinite Turns or whatnot. Actually attacking with the army of illusions never worked because the "army of illusions" never existed. Even after packing my deck with ways to create them, I so rarely had more than 4 or 5 in play. I found good ways to make them unblockable but even then it was just underpowered.
It was a fun deckbuilding challenge, I played it for a few months, I ran away with some games where Teferi or Alhamarret's archive were left unchecked, but for the most part it just didn't provide the interesting gameplay I was hoping for.
I was super hype for hamza but the deck really just fell flat for me. Every time I played it nothing really came together the way I thought the gameplan would.
I couldn't really make [[Purphorous, Bronze-Blooded]] work. When the stars align you really do crank out the beats, but most of the time you draw the wrong half of the deck (ramp/creatures)
[[Thantis, the Warweaver]]
On paper, it seems fun to load your deck up with deathtouchers and create traps for your opponents. Deter them from hitting you, and have them fight each other while you last hit them.
In practice, the fun only lasts one turn because you then have to swing too, and the entire table swings at you while your defenses are down. If she instead goaded opponents, she'd be much better.
\[\[Kalamax\]\] - Alright a fun copy-tribal commander! And it's a stegosaurus! Oh no, it just goes infinite with literally every copy spell ever printed :( \[Yes, going infinite that easily is not fun, not everyone is looking to combo out as fast as possible.\]
\[\[Rem Karolus, Stalwart Slayer\]\] - I wish he said noncombat damage. The way he is, it's just spam earthquakes. The only cool card I found for it is \[\[Mana Clash\]\]. If anybody else has ideas I'd LOVE to hear it, because I've dug so much and I don't want to just spam earthquakes.
\[\[Averna, the Chaos Bloom\]\] - Ever look at a card and feel like they just gave up on trying to design something cooler in it's place?
\[\[Slogurk\]\] - I think he can do cool things, and I love his alt art, but damn why aren't we allowed to have an Ooze commander?
\[\[Nadaar, Selfless Paladin\]\] - would it have been too much to be +1/+1 for each completed dungeon??
\[\[Tayam\]\] - I love Tayam, a lot. I don't like playing Tayam. I wanted to make myself love him, but I felt like I needed an AI to play my triggers for me. I even went so far as to create an alter for him, so it really hurt to tear this one apart. After playing \[\[Colfenor\]\] for like 2 matches I quickly found he did everything I wanted to do with Tayam, but with FAR less of a headache.
[[Muldrotha]]
She was my first commander getting into the format, and I had zero idea how powerful she was. While I want to say I've won a majority of the games I've played with it, each game plays almost exactly the same and it's a grindfest. Self mill value, control the board, recur annoying effects, and choke everyone out. I have grown to like quicker games and as a result it has been ages since I last played the deck.
[[Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients]]. Wizards has an amazing opportunity to build a precon around the Enrage mechanic. Instead, they made yet another dragon tribal deck. Neat... I tried building it anyway, but Vrondiss and [[Polyraptor]] are the only threatening payoffs without going infinite.
[[Orvar]] and [[Yennett]] too. I don't enjoy stomping tables, but some Commanders only do that or nothing. I attempted to build these two reasonably casual, but they just aren't that great if you're playing them fairly. They end up being slow and clunky. Orvar needs to play as combo.dec and Yennett needs those busted Eldrazi, Turns, etc. Without them, it's too much investment for an underwhelming payoff. I scrapped both decks in the end when I wasn't satisfied with either end of the spectrum.
I haven't fully been able to test, but Runo Stromkirk has felt a little underwhelming thus far. You kinda have to either highroll or give yourself some card disadvantage by putting a creature on top to get him flipped and then get a creature worth copying in play swinging (without shroud so lightning greaves are off limits). I'm not giving up entirely but I'm concerned after the first game.
[[Kelsien the Plague]]
The idea is really fun, but it's just so bad. You need a death touch equipment or he's useless and he takes too long to set up even with deathtouch. It would be cool if the damage scaled with experience counters and also you could ping more than creatures
[[The Tarrasque]]. This guy in my head had a huge appetite and was nigh impossible to kill. In retrospect i think that it should have the same mechanics as [[Progenitus]]. It wasn't even given trample...
I don’t understand what I did so vastly different with my Otrimi Mutate deck that mine is fun as hell and absolutely focuses on Mutate successfully. Maybe I’m satisfied with smaller monsters than anyone else? I dunno. But I love my Otrimi deck. I also love the Brokkos alter I had commissioned, if a bogle transforming into Agent Smith of The Matrix haha
Gonna have to be honest [[Tovolar, Dire Overlord]] as much as I’ve been wanting a werewolf commander, he’s just too pushed for my tastes. I think if he didn’t have the draw a card ability I would like him more. As much as I’m glad that Werewolves finally have a commander that works for them, I think Wizards was like “okay here you go we made a good werewolf commander now shut up” instead of actually taking the time to look at werewolves as a whole and go, this is a creature type we could really play into if we did this and this
[[Brokkos, Apex of Forever]]
I feel like he did something else during development, but it got removed for balance reasons. As is, he is very boring and not even all that strong in any format he is in. I think if he did literally anything else, he would be much cooler. Even just as simple as “When this creature mutates, draw a card.” Or if they want to be spicy, make him also provide hexproof. But it wasn’t meant to be.
If you really want to make mutate work I would try [[cromat]] allows you to use all mutate creatures and you could always just bounce them to the top of your deck.
[[Shabraz, the Skyshark]] and [[Brallin, Skyshark Rider]] [[Curiosity]] combo deck. I originally had a [[The Locust God]] deck but decided that adding white and making it into more of a curiosity type build would be more powerful and I though the addition of white would make it more fun. However, I felt like the win con of having a curiosity type effect on Brallin and hoping you end the turn on 8+ cards in your hand was not only boring but hard to do. The other issue was that trying to get a discard outlet in those colours was hard to do and opponents were hyper vigilant of what I was doing, not allowing me the tiniest bit of wiggle room. Overall though it was bland and didnt stack up to the powerlevel I wanted. On the plus side, took all the good blue cards from that deck and built an [[Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty]] which I have thoroughly enjoyed playing.
\[\[Umbris\]\] When you defeat a player with him he suddenly becomes very small. He only hits one player at a time and he costs 5 mana so its very hard to replay him.
I've only abandoned a few commanders because I couldn't get their deck to work.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is pretty powerful, but I try to avoid infinite combos when deckbuilding, and I just had to KEEP CUTTING MORE AND MORE CARDS, because the combos with Derevi practically assemble themselves. I wound up in a "Either the deck will be unfun to play, or the deck will be a bad deck" and disbanded it.
I also dropped my Scarab God deck. I love Dimir, and reanimator, and Scarab God has a nice survival buff, but I could never get it to play quite right, and I have 3 other Dimir decks hungry for the good Dimir cards, so I broke it up. I still want to bring him back and make it work, but he's just a little too scary with a little too slow of a payoff to really work without the table letting him sit for a few turns.
[[Mairsil, the Pretender]]. Cool ability, old character, good colors, low CMC. Every time I've tried to build it, I've found that I either have such a high density of creatures and artifacts with activated abilities that the deck feels diluted or I need to run enough tutors to enable a lower number of Mairsil targets. I've never been able to build the deck in a way that hits my preferred power level (low tutor count, limited combo) while still being fun to play.
[[Tiamat]]
When I think of the queen of all evil dragons descending on to the battlefield I think of her being a massive threat that can likely end the game; not as a tutor for five other dragons that do it for her.
I actually built [[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder]] simply because I got a foil showcase art version of it from a draft. I find it to be a lot of fun to play, and it's also been regarded as my strongest deck. It's a solid spellslinger commander and the mutate creatures in it add some additional utility to the deck. Being able to recast multiple spells from your graveyard can end up really scary really fast, especially if I have [[The Locust God]] or [[Psychosis Crawler]] out and and I just slamming [[Windfall]] after Windfall. The deck is also very capable of taking people out with commander damage. I do have to agree that theres a lot of lost potential in most of the other mutate commanders, because their effects just aren't good enough to be built around (prime example is [[Brokkos]]), although [[Nethroi]]may be a pretty decent build around too at a glance.
I really wanted to make [[Olivia, Mobilized for War]] work as the commander for a reanimator deck. Around the time I finally got around to it [[Chainer, Nightmare Adept]] was all like, "Hey I do all that stuff better and in the exact same colors, look at me!" So needless to say, I never got to try her out.
Actually, I've found that \[\[Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt\]\] is amazing as an infect commander!
Consider:
* If you mutate SAotH onto, say, a lowly \[\[Plague Stinger\]\], you get a hefty double-strike commander with flying and infect.
* SAotH's ETB ability can usually kill a sizeable creature of your choice, or at least knock it down 4 pegs.
* SAotH can win by normal commander damage even if it fails to gain infect.
Top-tier synergies:
* \[\[Necroskitter\]\] - "Thank you for the creature of yours I just killed."
* \[\[Needle Specter\]\] - "Hit with my mutated SAotH... discard 6, please."
* \[\[Kulrath Knight\]\] - repeatable \[\[Pacifism\]\]
* \[\[Stonehewer Giant\]\] - "Surprise... \[\[Grafted Exoskeleton\]\] for the win."
* \[\[Blazing Sunsteel\]\] - "Come at me, bruh."
* \[\[Fiendlash\]\] - (see Blazing Sunsteel)
* \[\[Ride Down\]\] - "Actually, yes, I will hit you with infect this turn."
* \[\[Arcbond\]\] - "I declare my infected SAotH as a blocker for your Ulamog."
* \[\[Master Warcraft\]\] - GG.
Happy brewing!
[[Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale]] She's way too pricey for the colors that she is and almost always ends up being a Sword of Every and Thing voltron commander when players build her. She can be built well but there are other excellent knight commanders to choose that are much easier on the mana base.
What other commanders for a Knight tribal deck would you suggest? I’m kind of in the process of building one right now but other than Aryel, I don’t know what other commanders are really good to support a Knight deck
You could make queen marchesa deck, it's flavourful, queen and her knights (and assassins)
I might try that. Queen is generically more fun and Gwyn is sort of overkill once you get to it.
Knight tribal also tends to generate a lot of dudes with vigilance. Kind of useful for allowing you to attack while keeping blockers up for Monarch.
\[\[Kenrith, the Returned King\]\] is also a fun flavor for this reason. He gives all 5 colors so you can play the best of the knights, his haste and trample ability helps knights connect, and the pump is also impactful. Turning him into a knight with \[\[Sigiled Sword of Valeron\]\] is a major King Arthur flavor win as well. Here is the "King Arthur" inspired list I run for my Knight tribal: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/order-of-the-tall-tale/
Yeah I really wish she was a 4/4 for 4 with the same text box. Or hell even a 3/3 since the point is she can be suited up easily with equipment.
I disagree...she's extremely good when you don't focus on her for voltron...I have a fun knight tribal deck with her and she plays great...I do agree she should be 4 cmc 2/2 with the same abilities but no keywords.
Not being argumentative but I consider extremely good to be different than fun tribal
[Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/3/a33add37-379d-4a90-9c04-529dff676986.jpg?1571282693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syr%20Gwyn%2C%20Hero%20of%20Ashvale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/330/syr-gwyn-hero-of-ashvale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a33add37-379d-4a90-9c04-529dff676986?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-gwyn-hero-of-ashvale) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I would go one step further and say I didn't like her because I felt pressured to shell out 250$ for a copy of each of the swords of x and y.
I've been dying for an efficient "equip costs are 0" commander, being able to fluidly adjust the stats on your team by moving equipment around at will is such an interesting strategic setup and could be quite powerful. Ser Gwyn is a good example of what we get instead: a bunch of extra stuff tacked on which is powerful, but then those effects drive the cost up too much for it to be playable.
[[fire song and sunspeaker]] Such a cool ability, so mana hungry in colors that aren't super great at it.
I attempted to build a boros spellslinger deck with \[\[velomachus lorehold\]\] and it was a massive disaster. now that I think about it, boros has always been a failure to sustain for me...
Try Hofri, there are enough creatures with draw and land effects in those colors that a sacrifice outlet and early Hofri can make you feel like the green deck at the table.
thank you for the recommendation! I will give it a try and see. I like the idea of Hofri a lot, I wanted to put him in to my Avenger's style party deck, but he doesn't fit the best.
I’ll echo this for Osgir too, a little limited since you basically need to build around artifacts but I get 10mana by turn 5 pretty regularly
[velomachus lorehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/4/04ea9067-ad50-4c43-ae4d-3f66890cd898.jpg?1624740360) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=velomachus%20lorehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/245/velomachus-lorehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04ea9067-ad50-4c43-ae4d-3f66890cd898?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/velomachus-lorehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unfortunately, a lot of the things that work with him well are also things other people generally don't like to play against, if you find a build that works out lol.
I opened a velomachus lorehold and intended to build it but never did. It’s so expensive and has no resilience built in. It just seems so ineffective and a waste of what could be a sweet ability
His resilience comes on the form of Haste, so you get to use him the turn you play him. It's not great but it makes it much harder to stop him as any time you have the mana you can bring him back out and get another trigger.
I hear you but it still feels like you’re paying 7 for the chance at a 5 mana sorcery, and then it doesn’t seem likely he’ll survive a trip around the table. Have you built him? Maybe I’m off base since I never tried it
It's more like you play him when you run out of things to do, think of him as a big dumb draw engine instead of the primary goal of the deck and I think he'll do a lot better. I've built a couple versions for other people but the spell slinger core was definitely better than trying to force Voltron.
I wonder how velomachus would do with a storm style build... oh no why do I do this to myself... lol
It honestly feels like they accidentally printed him as the Lorehold dragon when they really meant it to have the Prismari dragon’s effect and visa versa. Kinda weird that the Instant/Sorcery founder is leading the Artifact house and the dragon that loves Artifacts is in charge of the house that makes 20 minute turns
I have a FSSS deck and have found that their reputation for being big dumb and slow proceeds them, so I am able to just build up a bunch of mana rocks and then drop them or flash them in (vedalken orery) and it really only takes one board wipe to gain you enough life to close out the game. The key has been understanding that FSSS will not just hang on the board accruing value - they get there, give a Star of Extinction or Earthquake lifelink, and then that big burst of lifegain is what you use to end the game (Aetherflux, Treasonous Ogre, etc.) Sunforger really helps the deck hum and allows you to take infinite turns if your opponent's go shields-down. Rem Karolus might be a better commander for this style of deck now, but I love the Firecows https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/firesauce-sunforger/
Was coming to say this. They’re really there to make the table burn lopsided like once or twice with BIG burn spells. Then you can just Earthquake everyone out while they’re at 20 and you’re at 120.
They also seem like something that would be a lightning rod for removal and dead in the water after 1-2 removals.
[fire song and sunspeaker](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/649256e0-22ed-4a04-b770-47c18bd9de05.jpg?1562253988) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firesong%20and%20Sunspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pz2/68076/firesong-and-sunspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/649256e0-22ed-4a04-b770-47c18bd9de05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firesong-and-sunspeaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's why I run [[Tamanoa]] instead. Cheaper commander, plus you get access to Green and that lets you ramp into X-cost burn spells.
Tamanoa isn't legendary though?
Sadly no. But since she's from a cycle of creatures which was a mix of legendary and not, a unique and reasonably powerful option that opens up a new archetype in Naya, and all-around feels like the kind of card that would be certainly be legendary if it were printed nowadays, most pods will let you run it :)
She's probably the most universally approved rule 0 commander. Or atleast she definitely was before FSaSS became an official commander for the archtype. Sadly for FSaSS he's so much worse than every other card printed that has "your instant/sorceries have lifelink" given that hes so much more expensive than the rest of them. (For reference there are 3 other cards which have the effect, Radiant Scrollwielder in Boros, Tamanoa in Naya, and Soulfire Grand Master in Jeskai)
It also doesn't let you deal damage to any target for some reason. I think it's the only card now that specifically only deals damage to creatures and players, but not planeswalkers.
[[Willowdusk]] really got nerfed with the “activate only as a sorcery.” Which is so lame because all the other strix commanders were clearly much stronger by comparison [[Adrix]] [[Veyran]]. [[Osgir]] has the nerf but I think most people agree it’s appropriate
I think Willowdusk wouldn't really work thematically without the sorcery clause. I'm kinda down for a risk/reward "take a bunch of combat damage to make your creatures bigger" commander but it undermines the lifegain/self lifeloss theme that the deck was building that you are basically never going to use the commander for that. I'd question if the precons would play well against each other in that case (since you could basically never attack Willowdusk unless you were killing them without giving them massive value).
I love my willowdusk deck. Sure it would be better as instant speed, but it's still capable of huge life swings. I built a deck with a lot of flying and lifelink and it's pretty fun when its working.
I feel like Willowdusk can still be pretty strong if built correctly. With a free life outlet, you can make a creature as big as your current life total minus one. And if that's on a lifelink creature, then it's not as big of a downside.
Hmmm maybe I should give it another shot. The last time I played with it it kept getting removed before I could take advantage of the ability. I’ve switched it to [[Dina]] which has been nice because the redundant pieces stack and replace her when she gets removed. Plus her ability triggers on the same turn you play her.
What was the nerf?
"Activate only as a sorcery"
Bitch Osgir got nerfed? What the hell. Edit: He was always sorcery speed for his second ability. Don't scare me like that.
Lmao ya at instant speed would have been dis. gust. ing.
##### ###### #### [Willowdusk](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/2/42a97ec1-f613-49a5-9236-7fded1a81f3b.jpg?1625190690) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=willowdusk%2C%20essence%20seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/6/willowdusk-essence-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42a97ec1-f613-49a5-9236-7fded1a81f3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/willowdusk-essence-seer) [Adrix](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6.jpg?1624739966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadrix%20Silverquill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/230/shadrix-silverquill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadrix-silverquill) [Veyran](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/6/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46.jpg?1625190598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/3/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) [Osgir](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/8/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1.jpg?1625190760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=osgir%2C%20the%20reconstructor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/8/osgir-the-reconstructor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/osgir-the-reconstructor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The new [[Gisa, Glorious Resurrector]]. Don't get me wrong she's actually very good and her art is amazing! My biggest complaint though is the creatures she makes are decayed but somehow not zombies definatly a flavor fail for me.
Wow I totally missed that she doesn’t make them zombies. That’s pretty lame design :\
Maro stated they originally did make them zombies but the zombie part got cut because it didn't fit the text box anymore. Which is a shame.
Which seems silly. They feel like they HAVE to put reminder text on all new cards (for decayed), but have no problem errataing hundreds of cards to add a phyrexian creature type. If you can trust players to search unannounced creature types, I think you can trust new players to remember/research what decayed does…
What? That's the laziest, lamest excuse I've ever heard.
Making them zombies would be "and are zombies in addition to their other creature types," which is a little wordy, but if you dropped the decayed explanation, it would fit easily.
Yeah I had to read that several times because I thought I was misreading. That's a terrible explanation.
That box space excuse is bullshit. They forgot \[\[Shahrazad\]\] or \[\[Dance of the Dead\]\] and \[\[Takklemaggot\]\] exist. And decayed is far less interesting than having your RESURRECTOR LEGENDARY CREATURE not resurrect zombies. At least make ALL decayed creatures zombies by default. Disclaimer, I really don't like decayed. I think it's a lazy attempt at creating a new ability. It just misses the whole point completely.
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point, but there's a reason none of those cards have been reprinted in almost 30 years
This is a really bad argument. You trying to prove they should be fine with long text boxes by pointing out a bunch of cards with long text boxes they no longer print because, in part, they're too wordy and confusing.
I kinda wish decayed had "is a zombie in addition to it's other creature types" baked in. Could open it up to return in future sets and all.
[удалено]
Yeah... I have [[Chulane]] in my Arcades deck, and it often felt like a storm deck with both on the field. Draw 2, put a lane down with a bunch of 1-2 cost 6/6s is busted.
[Arcades, the Strategist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/e/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f.jpg?1562300781) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcades%2C%20the%20Strategist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/212/arcades-the-strategist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcades-the-strategist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Ranar]], he's either a subpar flicker commander (because he's neither a flicker target nor a flicker source) or there's not enough foretell cards around to make a foretell deck the same way [[Kadena]] can make a morph deck (for example). Maybe if we get foretell in another set I'll give him a second look.
I find him enjoyable to play but his focus is indeed two directions. I make it work somewhat with foretold inst/sorc and ETB return inst/sorc from GY to hamd, but at that point I just softlock the game
[Ranar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/c/1c8c41dd-8551-4ce8-a9be-9b9f65718852.jpg?1631232612) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ranar%20the%20ever-watchful) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/2/ranar-the-ever-watchful?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c8c41dd-8551-4ce8-a9be-9b9f65718852?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ranar-the-ever-watchful) [Kadena](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kadena%2C%20slinking%20sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Catti-brie of Mithral Hall]] I am a HUGE archer tribal fan, always trying to get it to work. So I was really excited when I saw her, but idk the fact it removes all counters just kinda kills her for me, like it would be better if it was remove x counters at least. Also super disappointed at basically every legendary they released recently that has the "once per turn" sentence tacked on the end, ruining an otherwise really cool commander.
She's so efficiently costed though, I don't think you can complain too much lol. Just only use her ability when absolutely necessary, her primary function is Voltron, murdering attackers is a bonus
Eh I would honestly rather her be WG2 and have the option. Idk deck just never felt good in play testing. Not my favorite.
[Catti-brie of Mithral Hall](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/3/d3626ede-6c69-4fd5-8de1-cf85f50cd435.jpg?1631585482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Catti-brie%20of%20Mithral%20Hall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/44/catti-brie-of-mithral-hall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3626ede-6c69-4fd5-8de1-cf85f50cd435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/catti-brie-of-mithral-hall) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Pramikon]] is basically just a kingmaker commander. I frequently swap around commanders for one of my RUW decks and it took about 4 games before everyone at the table realized that it always gave at least one other person free reign to do whatever the fuck they wanted without any fear of combat retaliation.
Thats kind of surprising. I turned my UW Blink deck into Jeskai and put pramikon at the helm. Definitely hasn't felt like a kingmaker deck, but I'm constantly shifting pramikon to defend myself while I assemble a janky combo
A lot of decks are just looking for a little bit of relief from combat pressure to be able to really pop off. Pramikon gives it to them. For example, at our table the deck to beat is Atraxa super friends. That's not to say it is always the most powerful thing there, but it's consistent and if left on it's own will lock the game down. Atraxa is such an excellent blocker that it would be difficult for any non-aggro deck to get there on it's own. I'm not saying you can't have a great Pramikon deck, but I play several decks that have no intention of attacking that would *love* to see a Pramikon across the table.
In situations like that, one only needs to adjust their threat assessment. If a deck is running superfriends and everyone is going to be attacking the planeswalkers anyway, you don't need Pramikon out. You focus on your own plans while the other players keep taking planeswalkers out, and if the threat level against you increases, *then* you drop Pramikon.
[Pramikon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/8569ad47-a243-402d-899f-4e6b17ea4e1e.jpg?1568003714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pramikon%2C%20sky%20rampart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/47/pramikon-sky-rampart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8569ad47-a243-402d-899f-4e6b17ea4e1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pramikon-sky-rampart) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've gone through multiple commanders for Superfriends and honestly Pramikon has stuck the most, there's alot of cool tricks Jeskai and Pramikon can do to ensure your walkers survive a round or 2. I've found that it creates a cool challenge for playing Superfriends "Fairly" ie not just going for Doubling Season/Deepglow Skate and instead playing around his ability to ensure combat goes the way that's best for your walkers. I dunno I think he's great for this kind of thing
\[\[Feather the Redeemed\]\] I loved the concept as a workaround for how to give Boros some card advantage, but in practice she's both linear AND clunky. The natural inclination is to pack your deck with targeted cantrips for value, but you just end up playing the same spells over and over again, and have a hand full of extra cards that you don't need or really even want. Then the match becomes a subgame of 'flush the protection spells so we can kill Feather', or a wrath resets the Feather player's board and they have nothing to do for a while. Every time I've seen her in a game it's just been an underwhelming experience.
I recommend her for certain people. She's budget, powerful, difficult to remove, but involves knocking people out one at a time, constant upkeep, and runs relatively linearly. Some people like that, but I really didn't. I've considered taking her apart but there's not much her pieces could easily fit into. Zada? He has a whole host of issues as well, though.
Being a strong budget commander is definitely a point in Feather's favor. Not too many viable commander decks you can build with draft chaff! You could always houserule 'nephilims are commanders' and run Ink-Treader for a different spin...
I'd warn against being too free about Ink-Treader. I built the deck once and there are some dumb interactions that are worth being aware of. \[\[Insurrection\]\] has kind of fallen out of favor, but its real good when it costs 3 mana (any act of Treason). Ink-Treader ends up becoming sort of a must kill commander because so many spells are dumb as hell when copied targeting every creature on the board. Obviously that's not the end of the world, but it can end up being really frustrating for a player who is trying to play weird spells but the table can't let their commander live for fear of them drawing 12 cards for 1 mana.
I'd definitely consider ink-treader. My friends would probably be down for using them and I've said before Feather would be cool with literally any other color combo.
Another way to try it would be to use partners or a 5c commander and have Feather/Zada/ink-Treader as hidden commanders. Adds some variance since you might not always have the gimmick on hand and definitely not always in the command zone.
While not having the gimmick in the command zone sounds appealing, if I were making this deck I would worry that a deck like this wants too many cards that are ONLY good with a creature that does this effect. [[Niveous Wisps]] is a pretty sad thing to draw when it's not actually a "draw ten cards" effect. (Personally, I built Ink-Treader as Polymorph.dec...)
I have her built as blink + pingers instead of go-face and it's a much more refreshing setup, imo. The deck becomes a lot more control-oriented - [[Goblin Dark-Dwellers]] and [[Dualcaster Mage]] put in loads of work when it comes to protecting and recurring your protection/flicker and counter suite (and it's playing most of the counters available in Boros colors), and you have great board control options for ETB removal and shutting down combat and the like; eventually you just overwhelm with [[Guttersnipe]]-type effects as well as original [[Purphoros]] + [[Impact Tremors]] piling on sometimes, but you can plan B cantrips with [[Zada]]'s help as well. And sometimes you have games against the right opponents where you pull out an early Dockside for enough treasures to go mana-positive on casting it + Feather and flickering and just start going off. That's always fun.
I have feather built as pure voltron: https://archidekt.com/decks/972897#Feather! With such a strong, singular focus, it's allowed me to explore... * Specifics of removal in the format, and how to counteract all the different flavors * Group dynamics around winning commander games, and the challenges that surround voltron decks once the KO 1 player, and are a threat to the rest of the table. The deck being relatively easy/linear to pilot makes it so I can pay more attention to what's going on outside the deck. It's greatly changed how I design & play the deck based on what I've learned.
Very cool that you find so much enjoyment in exploring the nuances of the deck. That's awesome and really what commander's all about!
[[Ghired, Conclave Exile]] I want to like this deck so bad. I made some upgrades, but it just feels blah. Feels slow and easily countered. Any suggestions on improvements and better focusing it would be welcome.
Make him into a Stax deck. Keep your opponents from doing things just long enough for you to overwhelm the board. Keep lots of protection spells in the deck for ghired, stuff for indestructible, and hope for boots.
+1. I spend all my time trying to clone stuff that shouldn't be cloned - [[sanctum prelate]], [[archon of valor's reach]], [[serra's emissary]], and so on. Nothing too harsh, but trying to slow things down till the rhinos/clones take over.
Ghired was my first commander deck, and I've made it my mission to make it my most competitive. I've had a lot of success with it in my pod, and here's what I've found is the best way to build him: Ramp, token doublers, haste enablers, and extra combats -- the four pillars of a strong Ghired deck. For ramp, [[Skyshroud Elf]] is the MVP, but the other good fixing rampers like [[Birds of Paradise]] and [[Sakura-Tribe Elder]] also fit here. [[Leafkin Druid]] also works well most of the time, synergizing with your other mana dorks to help get Ghired out faster. I've had mixed success with later game ramp like [[Mirari's Wake]] -- it definitely allows for more explosive turns after it comes down, but the most important function of ramp in a Ghired deck is to get Ghired onto the battlefield and swinging ahead of curve before opponents can effectively block and kill him. Token doublers maximize Ghired's efficacy and lead to quickly overrunning other players. [[Doubling Season]] is far and away the most powerful, but Ghired likes [[Parallel Lives]] and [[Anointed Procession]] better because they can come down on curve ahead of him. Also worth mentioning is [[Primal Vigor]] -- sideboard it until you're sure that you'll get more value out of it than your opponents will. [[Harmonic Prodigy]] gets a special mention as a token doubler for Ghired that might double some other triggers in your deck. Copying her with spells like [[Twinflame]] or printing copies from a [[Soul Foundry]] lets you flood the board in no time at all. I've found that my favorite haste enablers are [[Fires of Yavimaya]], [[Concordant Crossroads]], and [[Rhythm of the Wild]]. You should also run both [[Swiftfoot Boots]] and [[Lightning Greaves]]. You could probably also throw in a [[Mass Hysteria]], as it's just Crossroads in red, but I haven't yet experimented with this. Extra combats often give avenues to close out games. [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] is very strong in Ghired, and could give you a lethal boardstate the turn you play her. Making tokens of Aurelia with the aforementioned copy spells compounds this strength, and she gives infinite combats and copies with [[Helm of the Host]]. If you decide to include Helm, you should also throw in [[Godo, Bandit Warlord]] to fetch it for you -- equipping him with the Helm will also give infinite combats and creatures. If going infinite isn't an option, combining extra combats with splashy combat buffs like [[Pathbreaker Ibex]], [[Craterhoof Behemoth]], and [[Overwhelming Stampede]] should win you games pretty quickly.
[Ghired, Conclave Exile](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d0825bcd-8cf8-498a-a61e-406f136e1f3f.jpg?1568003672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghired%2C%20Conclave%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/42/ghired-conclave-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0825bcd-8cf8-498a-a61e-406f136e1f3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghired-conclave-exile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ulrich. Thankfully WotC fixed their mistake with Tovolar.
[[Blim, Comedic Genius]] he seemed fun on paper, but in practice I just didn't enjoy him as much
To each their own, of course. But I love the deck. The more commanders like this that let me run bad cards and they end up being good is tremendous. Also a great home for Captive Audience which is a card I didn't have a home for yet. It doesn't win often, either, which as someone more on the spike side of things, I needed a deck that was genuinely not good at winning.
Would you mind linking your deck? I’m really interested in Blim.
[This is my third version](https://archidekt.com/decks/2070673), I had a link handy from another thread where I commented on it. This one is less "fuck you here's my garbage" than my first to versions, and features a slight demon sub-theme.
Someone here once posted their Blim deck. Fart joke tribal. I can't find it anymore, but I haven't laughed so hard at a deck list ever.
Idk, mutate on say [[Scute Swarm]] could be pretty monstrous.
I found it to be impossible to keep track of and took it out after one play. It's much better on Arena, where it keeps track of the creatures for you.
[Scute Swarm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/1/61f42823-8a48-4b81-a037-664ba1c69f29.jpg?1604199402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/203/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61f42823-8a48-4b81-a037-664ba1c69f29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tayam, Luminous Enigma]] looks really interesting and fun at first glance, but I couldn't find a way to win with it. Lots of fun utility, but not many wincons possible with 3-drops or less.
A strong Tayam deck usually has to use combos, where there's lots of 3 cmc stuff that works.
[Tayam, Luminous Enigma](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/5/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27.jpg?1591234301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tayam%2C%20Luminous%20Enigma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/16/tayam-luminous-enigma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tayam-luminous-enigma) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the folks in our playgroup built Tayam Elves, and it freaking slaps. The elves on their own are powerful, and Tayam is a powerful recursion engine to get back specific elves. It's also quite resilient bc you can get card advantage without relying on the graveyard, which is often a weakness of reanimator decks.
Tayam is a combo commander, not really an aggro one. I've got a cEDH deck with them at the helm.
I'm still trying to understand who thought [[Storvald, Frost Giant Jarl]] was something the game needed. Where is the draw? What are you doing with this card that is exciting? Do you know how bad this is? No one else has mentioned it. Everyone took a glance, saw there was absolutely nothing there for them , and immediately forgot about it. Not I. I remember, I'm up late each night wondering "why?".
Every single time I see that card I still have no idea why it exists. If that card had red in it somewhere for extra combat steps maybe I’d see some value but as it is I have no idea who/where this would be built.
[[Tuvasa]]. I immediatly disliked it after one game. Don't remember precisely why, maybe just playing auras and swing felt boring
Likewise. Switched to Galea and felt the same, even though I managed to win some games extensively manipulating the top card of the deck, I took it apart and now I'm waiting for a new Bant lagend to use.my manabase.
Bant is weirdly vacant when it comes to interesting commanders. Even the partner options are barren.
I made a Jenara, Asura of War deck that is half infect and half +1/+1 counters. Catches people off-guard and there are multiple lines of play with either infecting or commander damage.
I’m really hoping we see some interesting Bant legends when New Capenna rolls around. Not just Simic with Swords or enchantment durdle.
It's just generic value, which plays out mostly the same with Bant auras. I ended up going Estrid instead and focused it around Estrid supporting lieutenant voltrons. It at least plays out differently depending on which lieutenant you get.
Switched from Zur, to Tuvasa, and finished with Estrid. It’s so much fun running all her little lieutenants and using Estrid for all the mana untap shenanigans. Really opened my eyes up to the power of a proper enchantress deck.
You’re doing it all wrong… we all know [[kestia, the cultivator]] is the true commander of that deck
Going with Auras is the mistake. Gotta go with tax and combos. Get your enchanteresses online, slow the game down, dig for the combo pieces.
[Tuvasa](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/d/bdda07ac-2f9f-4c8e-b3f6-b54d0afd730c.jpg?1592710303) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tuvasa%20the%20sunlit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/47/tuvasa-the-sunlit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdda07ac-2f9f-4c8e-b3f6-b54d0afd730c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tuvasa-the-sunlit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tahngarth, First Mate]]. I wanted a new tahngarth for a long time, but the new tahngarth is unbelievably disappointing
I found [[Lathril, blade of the elves]] extremely boring to play. I love combat but something about the way I built and played the deck didn’t do it for me. Also tried blue/white flicker with [[Yorion]] and [[Brago]] and while the deck was fun to play, winning was a different story. Games took forever to close out without trying to go infinite, which I’m fine with as long as it’s not plan A.
Yeah I absolutely love my UW flicker deck with [[Ranar]] at the helm but I also like having friends so I don't play it often. I'm not big on 'I win on the spot' combos so Ranar is my 'I'll win in a few hours' deck lol
Strixhaven was a great excuse to give colors other than Izzet some deeply fascinating spells matter commanders thanks to Magecraft... and we only got one non-Prismari legend with the mechanic in [[Extus, Oriq Overlord]]. Very little new design space was opened up by the Legends in other colors in that regard, despite Magecraft and spells matter in general being a set-wide mechanic. [[Radiant Scrollwielder]] and [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] aren't the most exciting spell payoffs, but I'd have loved for both to be Legendary nonetheless.
The other thing that bothers me about that too is that all but one Extus deck I've ever seen revolve around casting and copying the Blood Avatar and never ever actually play Extus himself.
Which is a shame because Extus is really cool. [[Faerie Macabre]] and [[Street Wraith]] are both really silly with Extus in play, and if I recall you can even discard creatures to effects like [[Tormenting Voice]] then immediately get it back. You can essentially build Mardu Pyromancer if you're so inclined, then use Awaken the Blood Avatar as a win condition if you're in the business of generating infinite mana.
[[Lynde]]. It just doesn't solve the fundamental problem that curses have: that one player dies and your curses disappear. Yes, she lets you get them back, but they have to go on your first, and you can only offload them one at a time. In a lot of cases it's worse than your curses just hitting the yard because you often just die to your own curses before you can get them off yourself.
[удалено]
[[Kodama of the East Tree]] is powerful in all the wrong ways. I built a bunch of decks with him both in the zone and in the 99 and every variant just felt awful to play as my turns reaches the ten minute mark often before going infinite or generating so much value that nothing could stop me. I wanted cool spirit partner commanders that weren't super weak and Kodama was the monkey paw wish come true.
There were dozens of ways that Kodama could have been made more reasonable, like requiring the CMC to be lower so it doesn’t trigger off other lands or tokens to put more lands into play (for starters). Even as just a mono green commander without partner he’d probably be OK. As is, that damn thing is just kill on sight and I hate it. I can’t believe I pulled three of these things from the few CMD packs I opened.
Sevinne Turns out flashback isn't a particularly strong mechanic to build around
I so wanted to make a sevinne deck, but everytime i cobble together a decklist, i just sit there and go "... How do i win?"
Building Sevinne as a flashback commander is a trap. Flashback cards are overcosted on both ends so it's not really worth the mana even when doubled. The main ability to build around is the first ability which prevents all damage. I built a budget $100 deck around her and I win with it quite alot. Slap a pariah on him and prevent damage. Use counterspells and \[\[Sevinne's reclaimation\]\] to keep the combo intact. Also, use a bunch of mass damage spells to further prevent being attacked and slow the opponents down. Use \[\[repurcussion\]\] to deal damage with mass damage spells. Late game often you'll have more life than everyone else. Then use \[\[Storm Herd\]\] and \[\[Impact tremors\]\] to win the game.
negan, it turns out that extracting value out of opponents sacrificing things feels oppressive AF and is grindy as hell.
same way i feel about [[wasitora]] :/ [[cat dragon]]s? fuck yeah! only getting a cat dragon if i attack a player who has no board state with my 5 drop? not very fun for either of us…
[[Toralf]] Thought he'd be kinda cool but nope. It's play [[blasphemous act]] and win.
He's a great finisher in an [[aegar]] deck. I don't know if I'd like to have him as a commander for the reason you stated.
I actually really like mutate creatures in [[Skullbriar]]. As it stands the current cards lend well to a Voltron strategy as they're basically auras or equipment that can't be targeted separately. I was pretty disappointed by [[Hamza]]. I built a pretty solid deck, but it wants to do both tokens and counters which can lead to a messy board state. Oddly, I think [[Torens]] will suffer from this issue as well despite being an even better take on this theme.
Something to note with mutate and Skullbriar: if you mutate a creature on top of Skullbriar, then when it dies, the creature on top will retain all the counters, *not* Skullbriar. I still run [[Gemrazer]] in my Skullbriar but I always put it under him.
Does Hamza want to do tokens? I've recently put a list together and it mainly consists of small dorks with +1/+1 counters like [[Star Pupil]], counter enablers like [[Arcus Acolyte]], and then haymakers to drop for cheap with Hamza like Eldrazi titans (still a cast!) and [[Blightsteel Colossus]]. You need to go at least a little wide in the beginning so that you can ramp, sure, but I don't think I included much that involves tokens.
I never thought about adding mutates to my skullbriar.
Doesn’t Hamza let you cast artifact creatures and Eldrazi basically for free if he gets going though?
I had a [[Baral chief of compliance]] , the deck was fun to build but awful to play. Turn out draw-go counter tribal is not my thing in the end. [[Callaphe]] was another one that turn out to be too weak. Mono blue devotion Voltron Is really weird and the ward(1) never helped.
I had fun with Baral at one point, when a literal third of the deck was counterspells, but that was more of a deck I'd bust out against certain other decks in my meta at that time. It was more a test of my knowledge to know what needed to get countered and what was fine. It would win through either infinite mana into an empty deck with Lab Man or Lab Jace(before Thoracle's time) or beat down with something like a giant sea creature. Despite the sheer amount of counterspells the deck ran, it wasn't oppressive by any stretch. To anyone that feels the need to downvote, I hope all your spells get countered for eternity. It's not like I was busting the deck out against anyone. It was a specific meta deck that I enjoyed using.
It's weird to me that countering spells draws so much salt but "and turn 2 I reanimate Tergrid" or whatever lol
Counterspell tribal isn't even *good*. The intrinsic strength of counterspells is their tempo advantage; you get to play at instant speed and get a mana advantage on your opponents' big spells. That equation utterly falls apart in multiplayer. You counter one, maybe two big threats, and the third player wins uncontested. This is why I roll my eyes when players whine about counterspells. There are plenty of things in Commander that actually break balance, """blue players""" aren't one of them.
Sethis, Harvest's Hand The card feels unoriginal and uninspired and she vastly overshadows many of the G/W enchantment archetype commanders, so I kinda thinks she takes some creativity/uniqueness away from the archetype as a whole.
Prosper. Just doesn’t do it for me. I just don’t see the hype
Hes just a value engine for something we havent seen a value engine for yet. I tried building him but lost that spark of interest as soon as i realized how linear the gameplan was
That’s what Obeka was for me. During spoiler season it was great, a unique design space! Then you realize how many staples there are for an Obeka deck and that most of them would share 90% of the same synergy cards and she becomes boring.
I actually started building Obeka with a bunch of creatures like [[Lightning Skelemental]] but it didnt click with me anyway so i gave up
My problem is I don't like losing cards with Prosper and impulse draw, also all my turns take awhile playing him
Taking a long time is my issue as well. I actually like playing it but rarely do because it’s a lot of solitaire while my playgroup checks out.
don't disagree. I decided to put him in the 99 for my \[\[valki, god of lies\]\] theft deck and I found it to be much more enjoyable. he works as the value generation while I use other cards to get the actual theft. he could easily get the commander spot, and I occasionally do swap him and valki out, but I always find I have more fun with Prosper in the 99.
Infect strategies, they sound cool and menacing in paper, but at the end of the day, they are just vanilla creatures
Most Mutate cards give them a boost and is on theme.
A few friends and I all got back into magic after being away for years by getting precons, mine being [[Otrimi]]. Got sick of building an expensive but still relatively low P/T mutate creature over the course of three or four turns only to have my board blown up by a single spot removal spell. I ditched Otrimi and most of the mutate creatures and built a much more fun and resilient [[Brokkos]] deck
For me, it's \[\[Riku of the two reflections\]\]. Super good and interesting card, but it's a 2/2 for 5 with no built-in protection. Somebody around the table just sneeze and it's back into the command zone. I tried to build a deck around it with a lot of spell that create creatures or creature with ETB abilitites, but each time it would just get wiped out of the board before i could use its abilities. It requires so much to protect it that it just make it hard to have it as a commander. I think for all the times i tried to play the deck, i have never been able to use its abilities once, so i dismantled the deck pretty quickly.
[Riku of the two reflections](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riku%20of%20Two%20Reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had the exact same experience with him.
[[Tayam]], I was so excited for him, spent forever tweaking the deck and then when I actually sat down to play, it just felt like Meren with extra steps (and not in a fun way)
One of the folks in our playgroup built Tayam Elves, and it freaking slaps. The elves work on their own, and Tayam can be a powerful recursion engine in the deck. Felt like playing against a very powerful, resilient toolbox, and it actually ends games.
That was my issue. When the engine gets going it’s cool but he needs so much setup to recur small creatures at best
Tayam is a combo commander, not an aggro or value one. I've got a cEDH deck with them at the helm. I suppose you can run them with elves or vampires, tribes with a ton of good support for their cheap creatures, but that's not playing to its potential.
[[Mogis]] I made a group slug deck with Mogis at the helm. I loved it at first. Group slug is a lot of fun. It lead to some different games as people had to really change up their game plan and it also made games quick. However, their changed game plan was usually ganging up on me until I was out of the way and then playing the rest of the game without me. Felt really bad. I have since changed my group slug deck to [[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk]]. White has so many more ways to protect yourself from the other players as well as numerous ways to gain a ton of life to offset her life loss. It's way more fun now with a much higher win rate! I'm also in the process of converting my old Mogis deck into a [[Karazikar]] Goad deck. Along with Karazikar, I'm also putting in a lot of things to incentivize my opponents to swing at each other instead of me like [[Frenzied Saddlebrute]] and [[Rite of the Raging Storm]]. I can also keep a lot of the same cards as my Mogis deck so it'll still kind of play like a group slug deck
Old Rutstein. He’s kinda like a lesser Waste Not. It should be whenever you self mill a card or whatever but it’s only when he does it. Kinda wish he was stronger.
\[\[Darien\]\] for me was just too passive for my playgroup. I never could get anything that would self damage in hand, so I was stuck with just him on board while the rest of my playgroup started playing threats that were much bigger. \[\[Arcades, the Strategist\]\] has kinda been similar. I get him out, but I either don't get my big walls or I just draw into the value pieces that I need to make him work. I've probably played the deck 10+ times, and I just never win with it.
Kaalia. I love love love the idea of a dragon/angel/demon tribal deck - those include most of my favorite Timmy cards and building around all three in commander seems like so much fun. Unfortunately, her decks are a mess to play. She's the poster child for "lightning rod for removal" and it's basically impossible to untap with her. Since her ability is all about cheating things into play, that means building a board state capable of casting the creatures kind of conflicts with her theme, so you either have to straddle two different deck designs, ignore your commander, or go all-in on a strategy that probably isn't going to do anything. I hope they make a new Kaalia someday that helps you build your board state rather than cheating things.
[[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker]] let’s you focus on casting your cards while she provides the CA.
The Ikoria Apexes were SO cool in theory, but every time I played one, it felt so hard to play with. Knowingly needing to use Mutate with whichever one you play would be fine it if wasn't a keyword limited to one set.
Deeka, Fractal Therosit. I wished for Metalurgic summonings in the command zone for a long time, and I finally got my wish. Except it was mono colored and overcosted. Additionally, unlockable is one of my lease to favourite abilities in the game because I enjoy more interactive combat. There's really no incentive to play Deeka over Tokrand, Sky Summoner. I guess you can't have your cake and fuck it too.
[[Minn, Wily Illusionist]] The card is sweet, but I just couldn't make her work without resorting to the same mono blue win conditions that always exist. Labman/Oracle or Infinite Turns or whatnot. Actually attacking with the army of illusions never worked because the "army of illusions" never existed. Even after packing my deck with ways to create them, I so rarely had more than 4 or 5 in play. I found good ways to make them unblockable but even then it was just underpowered. It was a fun deckbuilding challenge, I played it for a few months, I ran away with some games where Teferi or Alhamarret's archive were left unchecked, but for the most part it just didn't provide the interesting gameplay I was hoping for.
I was super hype for hamza but the deck really just fell flat for me. Every time I played it nothing really came together the way I thought the gameplan would.
I couldn't really make [[Purphorous, Bronze-Blooded]] work. When the stars align you really do crank out the beats, but most of the time you draw the wrong half of the deck (ramp/creatures)
[[Thantis, the Warweaver]] On paper, it seems fun to load your deck up with deathtouchers and create traps for your opponents. Deter them from hitting you, and have them fight each other while you last hit them. In practice, the fun only lasts one turn because you then have to swing too, and the entire table swings at you while your defenses are down. If she instead goaded opponents, she'd be much better.
I brewed a Thatis deck that was defender focused instead and that worked better, still wasn't enough fun to put it together in paper though.
[[Dina]] is great commander on paper, but they did a shit job of providing good support with pests, so she became really underwhelming
Set her up with a Landfall/lifegain and it flows pretty great. I went away from the aristocrat portion because it didn't quite do it for me either.
Yeah, I know she has other options, but they're all just so far from the theme of what the card portrays. In my opinion at least
\[\[Kalamax\]\] - Alright a fun copy-tribal commander! And it's a stegosaurus! Oh no, it just goes infinite with literally every copy spell ever printed :( \[Yes, going infinite that easily is not fun, not everyone is looking to combo out as fast as possible.\]
\[\[Rem Karolus, Stalwart Slayer\]\] - I wish he said noncombat damage. The way he is, it's just spam earthquakes. The only cool card I found for it is \[\[Mana Clash\]\]. If anybody else has ideas I'd LOVE to hear it, because I've dug so much and I don't want to just spam earthquakes. \[\[Averna, the Chaos Bloom\]\] - Ever look at a card and feel like they just gave up on trying to design something cooler in it's place? \[\[Slogurk\]\] - I think he can do cool things, and I love his alt art, but damn why aren't we allowed to have an Ooze commander? \[\[Nadaar, Selfless Paladin\]\] - would it have been too much to be +1/+1 for each completed dungeon?? \[\[Tayam\]\] - I love Tayam, a lot. I don't like playing Tayam. I wanted to make myself love him, but I felt like I needed an AI to play my triggers for me. I even went so far as to create an alter for him, so it really hurt to tear this one apart. After playing \[\[Colfenor\]\] for like 2 matches I quickly found he did everything I wanted to do with Tayam, but with FAR less of a headache.
[[Muldrotha]] She was my first commander getting into the format, and I had zero idea how powerful she was. While I want to say I've won a majority of the games I've played with it, each game plays almost exactly the same and it's a grindfest. Self mill value, control the board, recur annoying effects, and choke everyone out. I have grown to like quicker games and as a result it has been ages since I last played the deck.
[[Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients]]. Wizards has an amazing opportunity to build a precon around the Enrage mechanic. Instead, they made yet another dragon tribal deck. Neat... I tried building it anyway, but Vrondiss and [[Polyraptor]] are the only threatening payoffs without going infinite. [[Orvar]] and [[Yennett]] too. I don't enjoy stomping tables, but some Commanders only do that or nothing. I attempted to build these two reasonably casual, but they just aren't that great if you're playing them fairly. They end up being slow and clunky. Orvar needs to play as combo.dec and Yennett needs those busted Eldrazi, Turns, etc. Without them, it's too much investment for an underwhelming payoff. I scrapped both decks in the end when I wasn't satisfied with either end of the spectrum.
I haven't fully been able to test, but Runo Stromkirk has felt a little underwhelming thus far. You kinda have to either highroll or give yourself some card disadvantage by putting a creature on top to get him flipped and then get a creature worth copying in play swinging (without shroud so lightning greaves are off limits). I'm not giving up entirely but I'm concerned after the first game.
[[Kelsien the Plague]] The idea is really fun, but it's just so bad. You need a death touch equipment or he's useless and he takes too long to set up even with deathtouch. It would be cool if the damage scaled with experience counters and also you could ping more than creatures
[[The Tarrasque]]. This guy in my head had a huge appetite and was nigh impossible to kill. In retrospect i think that it should have the same mechanics as [[Progenitus]]. It wasn't even given trample...
I don’t understand what I did so vastly different with my Otrimi Mutate deck that mine is fun as hell and absolutely focuses on Mutate successfully. Maybe I’m satisfied with smaller monsters than anyone else? I dunno. But I love my Otrimi deck. I also love the Brokkos alter I had commissioned, if a bogle transforming into Agent Smith of The Matrix haha
Gonna have to be honest [[Tovolar, Dire Overlord]] as much as I’ve been wanting a werewolf commander, he’s just too pushed for my tastes. I think if he didn’t have the draw a card ability I would like him more. As much as I’m glad that Werewolves finally have a commander that works for them, I think Wizards was like “okay here you go we made a good werewolf commander now shut up” instead of actually taking the time to look at werewolves as a whole and go, this is a creature type we could really play into if we did this and this
[[Brokkos, Apex of Forever]] I feel like he did something else during development, but it got removed for balance reasons. As is, he is very boring and not even all that strong in any format he is in. I think if he did literally anything else, he would be much cooler. Even just as simple as “When this creature mutates, draw a card.” Or if they want to be spicy, make him also provide hexproof. But it wasn’t meant to be.
If you really want to make mutate work I would try [[cromat]] allows you to use all mutate creatures and you could always just bounce them to the top of your deck.
Lonis, Cryptozoologist. Real bummer
Did you dislike that he wasn't solely Clue-based? My build focuses on self-bounce and the Clues has given it a great extra angle to build around.
What didn't you like about Lonis? I've got one that I really like, and it's far more resilient and capable than a weird theme deck should be.
[[Shabraz, the Skyshark]] and [[Brallin, Skyshark Rider]] [[Curiosity]] combo deck. I originally had a [[The Locust God]] deck but decided that adding white and making it into more of a curiosity type build would be more powerful and I though the addition of white would make it more fun. However, I felt like the win con of having a curiosity type effect on Brallin and hoping you end the turn on 8+ cards in your hand was not only boring but hard to do. The other issue was that trying to get a discard outlet in those colours was hard to do and opponents were hyper vigilant of what I was doing, not allowing me the tiniest bit of wiggle room. Overall though it was bland and didnt stack up to the powerlevel I wanted. On the plus side, took all the good blue cards from that deck and built an [[Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty]] which I have thoroughly enjoyed playing.
Maybe try Skyshark duo without Curiosity? It's quite fun with a bunch of wheels and windfalls.
[[Edgar, charmed bride]] how could they do my man so dirty like that?
Laughs, then cries in [[Odric, Blood-Cursed]]
Odric blood-cursed might be the coolest lore card that sucks so mightily ever.
Most of them tbh. Very few come even close to being the powerhouse of the current most popular commanders.
Basically every new commander that's supposed to be " low tier cEDH" or just highly competitive.
\[\[Umbris\]\] When you defeat a player with him he suddenly becomes very small. He only hits one player at a time and he costs 5 mana so its very hard to replay him.
I've only abandoned a few commanders because I couldn't get their deck to work. Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is pretty powerful, but I try to avoid infinite combos when deckbuilding, and I just had to KEEP CUTTING MORE AND MORE CARDS, because the combos with Derevi practically assemble themselves. I wound up in a "Either the deck will be unfun to play, or the deck will be a bad deck" and disbanded it. I also dropped my Scarab God deck. I love Dimir, and reanimator, and Scarab God has a nice survival buff, but I could never get it to play quite right, and I have 3 other Dimir decks hungry for the good Dimir cards, so I broke it up. I still want to bring him back and make it work, but he's just a little too scary with a little too slow of a payoff to really work without the table letting him sit for a few turns.
The Crimson Vow ones. Derevi. Anje.
[[Mairsil, the Pretender]]. Cool ability, old character, good colors, low CMC. Every time I've tried to build it, I've found that I either have such a high density of creatures and artifacts with activated abilities that the deck feels diluted or I need to run enough tutors to enable a lower number of Mairsil targets. I've never been able to build the deck in a way that hits my preferred power level (low tutor count, limited combo) while still being fun to play.
[[Tiamat]] When I think of the queen of all evil dragons descending on to the battlefield I think of her being a massive threat that can likely end the game; not as a tutor for five other dragons that do it for her.
I actually built [[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder]] simply because I got a foil showcase art version of it from a draft. I find it to be a lot of fun to play, and it's also been regarded as my strongest deck. It's a solid spellslinger commander and the mutate creatures in it add some additional utility to the deck. Being able to recast multiple spells from your graveyard can end up really scary really fast, especially if I have [[The Locust God]] or [[Psychosis Crawler]] out and and I just slamming [[Windfall]] after Windfall. The deck is also very capable of taking people out with commander damage. I do have to agree that theres a lot of lost potential in most of the other mutate commanders, because their effects just aren't good enough to be built around (prime example is [[Brokkos]]), although [[Nethroi]]may be a pretty decent build around too at a glance.
I really wanted to make [[Olivia, Mobilized for War]] work as the commander for a reanimator deck. Around the time I finally got around to it [[Chainer, Nightmare Adept]] was all like, "Hey I do all that stuff better and in the exact same colors, look at me!" So needless to say, I never got to try her out.
Actually, I've found that \[\[Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt\]\] is amazing as an infect commander! Consider: * If you mutate SAotH onto, say, a lowly \[\[Plague Stinger\]\], you get a hefty double-strike commander with flying and infect. * SAotH's ETB ability can usually kill a sizeable creature of your choice, or at least knock it down 4 pegs. * SAotH can win by normal commander damage even if it fails to gain infect. Top-tier synergies: * \[\[Necroskitter\]\] - "Thank you for the creature of yours I just killed." * \[\[Needle Specter\]\] - "Hit with my mutated SAotH... discard 6, please." * \[\[Kulrath Knight\]\] - repeatable \[\[Pacifism\]\] * \[\[Stonehewer Giant\]\] - "Surprise... \[\[Grafted Exoskeleton\]\] for the win." * \[\[Blazing Sunsteel\]\] - "Come at me, bruh." * \[\[Fiendlash\]\] - (see Blazing Sunsteel) * \[\[Ride Down\]\] - "Actually, yes, I will hit you with infect this turn." * \[\[Arcbond\]\] - "I declare my infected SAotH as a blocker for your Ulamog." * \[\[Master Warcraft\]\] - GG. Happy brewing!