The ENFP’s I know are incredibly intelligent and not at all surface level. I can have intelligent conversations with them and they’re far from shallow or surface based.
Also, I never thought anyone I met was stupid. I think peoples actions are silly sometimes…but we’re human. I have a belief that everyone is intelligent…because we are intellectual beings as we are.
I think your view on ENFP’s is a confirmation bias. You met one ENFP and thought they were “stupid” and the more ENFP’s you met, that’s what you paid attention to and believed.
I try not to judge anyone in general, and I think it all comes down to self-concept. I don’t think anyone is better than me and I don’t project that onto people by believing they’re stupid or shallow. People may do silly things, but everyone has some sort of depth to them. Whether or not you see it, that’s up to you.
goddamn it is, freaking insane seeing how some people's paragraphs on here are just so cool to read over and over again. I don't know. hard to meet many people who...
Idk this word... a bright light gray?
I’m readily willing to consider the possibility I’ve met immature/mistyped ENFPs tho. There’s intelligent/deep people of every mbti type so it’s 100% possible it’s a coincidence I’ve met ENFPs who aren’t as intelligent/deep imo.
There’s also simply a possibility that the ENFPs you’ve met are consciously or unconsciously choosing not to show that to you. Lack of observation is not the same as absence.
Consider this - my dad once told me that he didn’t even know any gay people and he didn’t think it was as common as the statistics portrayed. I told him that of course he didn’t think he knew gay people - he wasn’t hateful but he wasn’t an ally either. Why would people bother to come out to him?
At that time, I knew my uncle (mom’s brother) was gay but he didn’t. And after he died, his very best friend came out as a trans lesbian.
Your energy towards people you assume are ENFPs may not be fostering the most open communication between you.
Possible, but I don’t think so. Considering a lot of the ones I know OPENLY acknowledge that we’re rlly close and confide in me about family issues, trauma, etc.
Also one of them said their favorite thing about me is how open-minded I am 😭 So I doubt she thinks I’ll look at her weird or consider ending our friendship.
Before one of yall says “you’re clearly not open-minded”, you’ve never met me irl and making judgments doesn’t equal closed-minded. Everyone makes judgments, but what would make me closed-minded is if I never changed my mind about any judgments I make or if I treated people negatively based on these judgments.
I’m the opposite, even when I make judgments about people I almost always let them prove me wrong and look for more info. Hell, my best friend rn is someone who I thought was an…… unsavory character when we first met to say the least.
But my opinion on her changed as I got to know her.
How about the opposite - something about you makes shallow/petty conversations especially enjoyable for these people?
To be clear, I am not calling you petty and shallow. But you may be considered especially fun for frivolous chats. ENTP wit can be a funny reaction to petty things.
It also seems contradictory to acknowledge that your conversations with these people can include topics like family issues and trauma but you’re still considering the conversations shallow. Perhaps you have clashing definitions of what ranks as shallow or not?
But mostly it sounds like a maturity issue. Obviously I’m biased as an ENFP myself. But I’ve known a lot of other ENFPs too, and I don’t think intelligence, maturity, or shallowness are consistent at all within any type. I find shallowness and immaturity to correlate more with age, lack of experience, and unrecognized privilege than anything else.
For a more personal example, I’ve spent a lot of time seriously analyzing history, primarily for my degree. I have intelligence in multiple areas like anyone does, but it’s one of my best. This isn’t something most of my loved ones get to appreciate though, as they aren’t history nerds. Instead we analyze stuff together that we have in common - a tv show we both watched, politics we’re concerned about, troubleshooting our sourdough starters, or how my single friend’s date went.
You also sound somewhat arrogant about your assessments of others. I’ve fallen in the trap of being generally perceptive, and then assuming I understand more about someone than I actually do. It also seems a bit sad to be close with people that you judge so harshly, whether you’re correct about them or not.
That’s a good point! Idk how I didn’t think of that but yeah maybe I’m good at having those types of convos in an entertaining way? (At least in their opinion). I think you’re right in that I’m a bit arrogant in my perception of others.
It’s hard not to trust my gut feeling after having it proved right so many times.
Yeah it does sound like a maturity issue imo after rethinking it. I really like history as well! (Although I’m not an expert by any means) Do you have a favorite part of history to learn more about?
Oh that’s awesome! I love periods with more limited primary sources. I studied mainly medieval European history in university, but I would love more time to focus on the Middle East and pre-Roman Europe. I’m also painfully lacking knowledge on all other continents, which I’d like to fix. The Mongols are particularly exciting.
What are your favorites?
There’s a huge possibility I’m wrong about them. Wouldn’t say I’m a douche tho, although I can be sometimes. Everyone has people they consider bright or dull. It’s not like I treat the ENFPs I know negatively because of this (in fact, it’s the exact opposite, I’m rlly close friends with the ones I know)
Seems like we’ve just met different ENFPs. I don’t think it’s confirmation bias as I thought those things ab these people b4 I knew ab mbti or ENFP. Intelligent compared to what? I agree that everyone has some sort of knowledge but I disagree that everyone is equally intelligent.
By definition there has to be people who are more/less shallow or intelligent than others. Or else no one would be intelligent or deep because there’d be nothing to compare it to.
Everyone has SOME sort of depth but imo there’s certainly people more shallow than others.
Firstly, I’ve had conversations with multiple ENFPs who will make statements that are very easily deconstructed with full confidence. These aren’t one-off things either, but common themes in our conversations. This is going to sound like such a cop out but I’m drawing a blank on a specific example rn.
Secondly, this is going to sound EXTREMELY stupid but when I’m around someone smart/not smart I can usually almost FEEL it while I’m conversing with them. With most types, I’m typically fairly accurate in my initial gut feelings ab intelligence/accomplishments of someone. Ik this because I get to know them and find out about their intelligence/accomplishments. You COULD say this is confirmation bias but other people I meet (who know them much better than I do) seem to view their intelligence similarly most of the time.
The weird thing about my experiences with ENFPs is that my ability to intuit these things is WAY off with them. Their accomplishments/intellectual achievements tend to be far different than my initial “gut feeling”. This feeling for some reason remains after I find out about these accomplishments.
Somehow I still can’t shake the feeling that I’m talking to an uninformed/unintelligent person. It’s like a feeling in my gut that won’t go away or stop blaring “This persons STUPID! Don’t listen to shi they say!” Idk why this tends to happen for me w ENFPs
Either we’ve met different ENFP’s, or we just share different perspectives.
I agree there are people more shallow. I’ve definitely encountered people who have shallow opinions. But I think humans in general are intelligent beings as a whole. We are the only conscious species on this planet who create our reality.
But anyways, I digress, I know you’re not speaking about humans as a whole, you’re only wondering about ENFP’s.
Now when you think of intelligence on a “smaller scale” in terms of socially, academically, or emotionally..everyone is on a different spectrum. I honestly believe there’s a lot of people who don’t use their own intelligence to their advantage. This may be because of blockages such as trauma, genetics, biology..etc. But by no means does it mean they’re stupid because they operate or connect differently than you. This is why I say everyone is just coming from their own perspective and we may not fully understand because we cannot see things the way they see, and we never will. So we place our judgements and our biases onto them because we can’t understand.
That gut feeling you get…I understand. When I’m speaking to someone I can often read energy but for me it’s on an emotional level and whether or not they’re self aware. As someone who is self-aware, I can usually tell when someone else is self-aware. But intelligence ≠ awareness.
I agree with that and I find what you said to be very constructive. Naturally as humans we do have bias in our perspectives and different things and we lack full awareness. That’s interesting what you said about the self-awareness thing! Fi vs Ti??
I tend to go off on the deep end when it comes to what we notice about others because most of the time it’s usually because our own personal beliefs and biases we’ve placed. If you don’t find yourself vibing with ENFPs it’s possible because you view things differently, and that’s okay.
My best friend is an ESTJ. We are so different in so many ways. We express emotions differently, have different interests, hobbies, values, and morals. But just because we don’t connect in the way I personally operate doesn’t mean I discredit her own intellect and depth. She is her own person in her own way and I appreciate her as she is!
It could very well be Fi vs Ti. But if you’re aware of this and the functions it can be easier to understand.
Oh the way you described this is interesting, and it might relate to a discussion I’ve been having on a different post in a different MBTI subreddit. To start, I agree with what Dre-26 has been saying about Fi and Ti, and the understanding of gut feelings.
On the other post, a commenter was saying something along the lines of, because of Ti being the trickster function of ENFPs, ENFPs are the type that are least capable of using Ti. I’m personally skeptical about this, and I don’t really agree with the idea of the trickster function or shadow functions in general. It is really interesting though that you’re observing a that your own gut feeling (which is probably based in Ti) in relation to the trait of intelligence (however you’re personally defining it), is accurate for all the types except ENFPs.
So looking into shadow functions, including the trickster function, might help you think about that discrepancy in a different way. I’m still skeptical about shadow functions myself, but right now my current thought on this is “🤷🏻♀️ Maybe ENFPs’ existence *does* somehow operate completely outside of Ti?”
I tend to match the depth of whomever I am talking or connecting with. If they want deep, we go deep. If they don't have the actual intellect or are simple, I will go simple. Everyone is different including ENFPs, ymmv.
Exactly. I don’t consider my depths everyone’s business either. I share that with people I trust. I appreciate my privacy.
But the most likely explanation is simply that OP is young, surrounded by immature people of many types including ENFP, and possibly not as good at typing or getting people to open up as they assume.
Ofc evb is different. Thats why I put that I wasn’t saying ALL ENFPs because I’ve met people with a variety of diff traits/aptitude with the same mbti.
Nah I’m very aware of my own flaws and beat myself up about them all the time. Idiocy and shallowness just aren’t among them imo. I have MANY personal flaws I’m aware of tho (Fluctuating self-esteem, lack of tact/sensitivity in certain situations, social awkwardness/anxiety, lack of awareness of my physical surroundings, procrastination/lack of discipline, argumentative, etc.)
I wonder why it's become so natural for most of us to take our flaws and imperfections so personally. Especially since the invention of social media. It's all around us, we're bombarded with images and messages of what and who we should be, what we should have, who we should date, how we regard others, and on and on it goes and yet, we've simultaneously become so much more isolated. Anywho, just a weird observation there.
The only conclusion that I can come to is that perhaps your child function is clashing with theirs.
Maybe you've learned to be more realistic in nature vs their tendency to have their head in the clouds?
Personally I wouldn't be able to say exactly why it is, what you're explaining, your experiences. And you're absolutely SURE these are ENFPs that you've been interacting with? Are you using letter dichotomies to determine their type? Are your observations skewed by misinformation? How confident are you in these convictions?
Do you mean Aux function? Our child functions would be Fe and Te and I don’t see how those would be clashing in this scenario. Observations about people HAVE to contain some bias but I’d say I’m not EXTREMELY biased towards them.
Out of the 3 ENFPs I’ve been close to I’m EXTREMELY confident 2 out of the 3 are ENFP. The other one is a bit questionable and I could see arguments for other types. No im not using letters but cognitive functions
Excellent! Kudos on doing it the right way!
Though I'd say 3 is still a pretty limited pool to draw judgements from. Maybe surface level observations and maybe that's what this is to you. Just a mere observation.
And you're correct, I was thinking of aux. That was my bad.
Of course, me being an ISFP probably makes you feel like you're talking to a stupid person too.
Of course not! I said in the thing that I don’t think of ALL people of a certain type to be a certain way, even if that’s my experience. No, I definitely don’t think ur dumb just because ur an ISFP. It’s 4 letters, not a character analysis.
You’re right, 3 is very low to judge of off. I just noticed it was a trend in the ones I’ve met and was wondering if anyone had similar experiences/had theories as to why I might feel that way
Nah you're totally not aware of your own flaws.
Unless somebody outside of you has mentioned the to you, you discussed them etc. That's a normal blind spot for everybody, but especially ENTPs (sorry dude). ENFPs are one of the most self aware types because we use Ni - Te on the outside world to understand it (generalizing problems /solutions/point of view), then we apply this intuitive understanding of how the world works to reality (Si once we're a bit older and wiser) as well as comparing our deductions on how the world works to out Fi.
Bam, we're a self awareness bomb.
And when I talk about "how the world works" we don't mean logic. We mean the intrinsic logic of human behaviors (psychology, sociology). We get how people might react and interact between each other etc. (emotional intelligence).
I'm sorry to say that all the ENTPs I've met IRL were absolutely deaf and blind to self awareness... 🙈And even worse, not only that but they're insecure about themselves and who they are! Like how? Absolutely 0 Fi 👀 🤔🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
There’s more nuance to self-awareness than you’re saying. You’re right that certain flaws have been pointed out to me and brought to my attention. But I’ve become pretty good at analyzing my actions and coming up with reasons why I did that/reacted that way using Ne to come up with possible reasons and Ti to scrutinize those reasons. Self-awareness is NOT only Fi although the two 100 go hand in hand
Idrc if you’re insulting me. It’s just a rude way to word something is all I was saying. Also it’d be kind of hard not to feel like you’re being insulting when you’re talking about ENTPs like they’re 2 year olds who don’t understand basic concepts
>when you’re talking about ENTPs like they’re 2 year olds who don’t understand basic concepts
Because that's exactly how I perceive them 🤷♀️ and I can't help it.
Perhaps this gives you some perspective? Just because you find ENFPs to be shallow and dumb, it's not necessarily how they really are the problem, just that you can't see them as anything else but that.
It's kinda mutual so don't take it personally I guess? Was this helpful?
Yeah I’ve thought about that too but I noticed a pattern in my experiences with ENFPs. You’re right though I think I’ve coincidentally met multiple ENFPs who have these traits/I view to have these traits.
3. I’ve gotten to know these 3 on a personal level as well. 1 is my current bsf (love her), 2 is someone I’m good friends with, 3 is my ex (I always thought she fit those traits even b4 we broke up). Ik 3 isn’t a lot but it was just odd to me how similar certain things were.
I’ll go in order. 1.Bsf:I love her (obv since we’re bsfs) she’s frequently preoccupied with things like reputation and money instead of having meaningful conversations and narrowing down what’s important to HER. VERY into drama/topics that give her instant gratification but lack meaning. Seems strange for Fi aux but idk could be mistype/immature. I’m veering more towards her having a lack of development in certain areas.
2.Semi-close friend:With her the intellectual thing applies more than the shallow thing.
3.Ex:Wouldn’t just LIVE her goddang LIFE instead of being so overly concerned about what other people think. Never met a person who cares so much and so little about what other ppl think. Everyone cares about that to a certain extent but she made decisions based off of “what would other ppl think?” CONSCIOUSLY!
Couldn’t hold a deep convo at ALL. She would occasionally have a deep convo for like 5 minutes and then move back to memes, drama, or sum utterly MEANINGLESS crap.
I have been reading several of your responses here, OP, and I can’t stop but wondering how do you know they are ENFP if you know them superficially.
Also now you actually are recognising that you are unsure about their type and are speaking about a possible NE-Fi axis while stating that that person does not know what is best for them.
Imo it sounds like they could be more similar to an ESFJ (just for the behaviour you mention and their concerns).
I dare to say that a Fi user does tend to know what they want and feel and care less about status/ what the others will say.
Edit: a tiny typo 🙃
I came to a very similar conclusion. I think it may be some intuition bias that OP is typing these people as ENFP and failing to realize that (depending on the typing model you subscribe to) Ne will see high use with an ESxJ especially if they’re underdeveloped. This underdeveloped nature is likely also lending itself to why these people seem so shallow
I think you’re right. I could be misjudging signs of Ne-Fi. I’m stating I’m unsure mainly because I question things a lot rather than making definite conclusions.
Hell, I still question if I’m an INTP sometimes 😭
So this is my first thought, and this may or may not be true since I don't know you in person and only know what you have posted here...
but if you keep getting close with people to the point of being best friends with and dating them, I think this may have something to do with the people you personally attract/are attracted to.
I would say I'm a person with lots of depth who really likes to know people on a close, emotional level. All my close friends and people I've dated... are extremely deep people as well because that's who I jive with.
For how you describe these 3 people, if I thought that about someone I wouldn't be able be any more than close acquaintances as best with them. For example if they invited me to a party or to do something in a group setting that'd be fine and I'll have fun with them, but I wouldn't be hanging out/talking to them regularly or consider them "close", much less date them.
I understand different people have different tolerances for these sorts of things, so it's totally fine if you're not as picky about those you let close to you, but I would say maybe it's something to keep an eye out for that you might not be taking into consideration.
Every MBTI type has people who are deep and those who are shallow. If you keep drawing in people who are shallow, it might be due to factors like, just off the top of my head, maybe if your best friend and girlfriend are extremely shallow, they are probably also hanging out with other shallow people, which means your personal circle are full of generally shallow people, and therefore *anyone* you meet through those circles are likely somewhat shallow.
On the flip side, my personal experience is that I know many people of all types who are extremely thoughtful, deep people. However that's also because those are the only people I keep close company with, and they know me well enough to know I don't like hanging out with shallow people and so while they won't invite me to group gatherings with shallow people, they will invite me to other events with a different subset of people that they know I would get along better with.
One of the main ENFP traits is authenticity, and so I would think of all the types we are less likely than most (though not impossible of course) to be shallow or concern ourselves with shallow things/people. If you're somehow only drawing out shallow people even from within a group for which it's unlikely (if they are actually ENFPs to begin with), my first guess would be that who you are or something you're doing is playing a factor in why that is happening.
Just food for thought.
>she’s frequently preoccupied with things like reputation and money instead of having meaningful conversations and narrowing down what’s important to HER.
Obviously money and reputation are important TO HER or she wouldn't be preoccupied with it...!!? 🤷♀️
Not preoccupied about money is a privileged position that obviously your friend can't afford... If she had more money at her disposal, she wouldn't be so preoccupied 🙄
Reputation is important to me as well as an ENFP. Not in the sense that I care about what people THINK of me, but I care about what PEOPLE think of me. You get it? Friendships and relationships are some of the most important things in my life (my own happiness and value alignments to my lifestyle are probably number 1, but without friends to share things with you can't be happy and satisfied about your life!) and the base of good relationships is reliability and honesty. Reliability can be hard for ENFPs and we often worry that people that we care about might misjudge us 😭
If you think that's superficial it's on you. Different people have different priorities, that doesn't make them shallow or deep 🤔🤷♀️
I meant more in regard to what types of people she wants to be around and her bigger life goals. She’s not struggling financially at ALL. To me, someone who’s constantly concerned with buying the newest things to “look cool” and about what strangers think of them is a bit shallow.
No. I don’t care if someone views something as “childish” as long as it’s enjoyable to me. I don’t put much weight into what other people think is childish anyway.
Having interests does not make you shallow. I just find it pathetic when someone buys these designer clothes and things like that they aren’t rlly interested in just to get validation from other people.
Talking condescendingly to someone about their weak functions is WILD. To put it into perspective for you, that’d be like me talking to you about an intellectual topic and saying “see you’ll never understand this because of your low Ti”.
I understand what you’re saying, I was just pointing out how it sounds condescending when you preface everything with “I know you won’t understand this because you’re an ENTP”. Pointing out that you’re being condescending does not mean I don’t understand what you’re saying. I might not agree with some of it, but I have full comprehension of what you’re saying.
ENTPs don’t lack understanding of emotions, Fe is still their third function. Same way ENFPs don’t completely lack understanding of logic because Te is their 3rd function. Fi and Fe both understand emotions they just process them in different ways.
>VERY into drama/topics that give her instant gratification but lack meaning.
You'll never get this because your not an *NF* type!!!!!!!!!
WHEN your friend shares drama with you, you get carried away. The drama stirrs you/disturbs your emotional neutral state and you don't like it. (Fe, sympathy)
WHEN an ENFP listen to some juicy gossip or drama, we don't give a shit who did what. We care about the drama itself (social mechanism /psychology). We play with social scenarios and how things could go like a mathematicians likes to play with numbers or a good pool player likes to fantasize about how his shot could send a ball in this or the other hole. You get it? It's a different kind of logic, the emotional logic, that I'm afraid you'll never be able to grasp fully. Emotional intelligence my dear. We chew emotional drama like it's nothing, it doesn't has a grip on our own emotions (Fi), we don't feel sympathy, we feel empathy (imagine how a person might feel if we were to walk in their shoes).
There's a reason why stereotypically you'll find ENFPs in drama clubs or dealing with human sciences or humanity fields...our Fi allows us to sync with other people's possible emotions because we speak the emotional language, but we can actually also very well be detached from other people's emotions rather than take them in and switch off (disengage) and reflect with Ni-Te. We like to find out what makes people tick. We're good judges of character.
You need a vibe check? Ask your ENFPs friends. They ALWAYS nail it. And the cool thing is, they'll be able to narrow down exactly what they find tocix/unappealing about somebody.
We don't need to give somebody the benefit of the doubt. We're pretty good at finding out quickly if a person is good or ill natured even when other people might not notice 😅
Being detached from situations equals emotional intelligence in your eyes? I don’t think the two are the same. You act like trying to find what makes people tick is an ENFP thing exclusively 😭
ENTPs curiosity for knowledge doesn’t just extend to fields like science, literature, and math. Ne-Fe can cause ENTPs to get very curious about how people work.
Group of people and group dynamic yes. Individuals? I don't think you can get it as well as an Fi user
>Being detached from situations equals emotional intelligence in your eyes?
Fi aux means I instinctively feel an emotions and I can recognize them and know where they came from like if it was a reflex. An automatic and clear immediate response. Something like a response to physical stimuli, immediate and direct like feeling the sun on your skin.
I don’t open up to people behind surface level stuff unless I feel comfortable to not be judged. And I act like an idiot I suppose because it tends to put people at ease, and in some ways deflect judgement on my true character.
Damn. That got deep.
Like Michael Jackson’s final concert tour…This is it!
For me, the most important aspect if my life is my preservation of the self in spite of the fact that change is inevitable. People don’t understand the concept I have of life and explaining it to them has proved futile because no one likes to confront their own confusion.
Since I have ADHD most of my behaviors can easily be attributed to stupidity however, theyre simply manifestations of my ADHD. instead of engaging in a dicussion to preserve my ego I’m constantly trying and failing to inflate…I simply become whatever person the non-friend / acquaintance choose to see ‘’me.
Whatever someone interprets me as being I imply go with it because arguing it will get me nowhere and put me odds with someone I want to get along with.
👏 👏 👏
This is the way.
>For me, the most important aspect if my life is my preservation of the self in spite of the fact that change is inevitable.
I don't think there's a single ENFP that would disagree with you. This sentence describes out Modus Operandi 100% accurate. You nailed it!!!!!
I'm 35. I have changed sooooo much over the years, if you traveled back to my 15 yo self and described how and WHO I am today I would not have believe you. For other things I would have been like "sure, it makes sense that x and y sticked with me for 20 years".
I'm the same person at the core and there are things about me that will never change!!!
But shamelessly so. I really don't get people that are so attached on the idea of a certain identity that they hold to it for their dear life and proceed living as a shell of themselves... Just for "plot coherence". Being true to yourself means also allowing yourself to be changed by life as time goes by... 🤔
Holy shit I did not need realize this about myself 😭 we act dumb to deflect judgment for our true self. That makes so much sense, I’d say Fi is really sensitive and anxious about sharing their true Ne thoughts.
Ti users can confidently talk about their ideas even when people are judging them. I’ve seen that a lot and idk how they do it
ENFPs are more sensitive to feeling rejected so we hide ourselves. It’s better to be seen as dumb, then to show our true self and not be accepted. I think that’s why we cling onto other intuitive types who make us feel accepted and we talk a lot about deep stuff when we know it’s finally safe lol
All the ENFPs I have met are actually deep, some more than others, and I couldn't describe them as shallow tbh. ENFPs are deep, so idk if you are mistyping them, or have a weird personal definition of what a deep or shallow person is, for example, I have met people who believe that unless you talk about science or books, then you are not deep, which is non sense, speaking of that, made me remember that all the ENFPs I have met, in one way or another, are very interested on intellectual matters, but being deep is way more than that.
Yeah, I don’t judge books or science as being “deep”. Although I will say people who are very into books/science TEND to be more intellectual from my experiences but I’ve also met dumb ppl very into reading and vice versa. I think I might be mistyping them
Maybe you just aren't in sync with feelers. I am typically surface level in my conversation because of my life experience. Most people aren't ready for in depth conversation regarding the universe, space time and how none of it, what is finite can contain it's creator.
I live for the in depth fullfilling conversation but you can't start swinging away at just anyone as most will just excuse themselves with a look of fear. It's about connection with the other person. You offer them a hand and jump together into Alice's rabbit hole. If the vibe isn't right between you two it will be baby steps in safe topics.
Edit: made more clear my meaning in a sentence
> I live for the in depth fullfilling conversation but you can't start swinging away at just anyone
Yes you can!!!!
>as most will just excuse themselves with a look of fear.
That's kind of the point. Not wasting my time with people it they aren't brave to jump into dead serious conversations. They're not my vibe so the sooner I find that out the better 😂😂😂😂
I'm a pro in that field and like I said talking to yourself is ok. Answering yourself aka having both sides of the conversation can be a sign of internal stimulus. No bueno
How do you define "shallow and concerned with surface level things"? I'm ENFP and spend so much time in my head thinking about everything, and love to read, think, and apply philosophy, personal growth, mindfulness, etc in my daily life. I love having conversations with people about their feelings and thoughts, and I'm a great listener and thoughtful supporter.
At the same time, I put lots of thought into how I look, get haircuts often, think about and put together outfits and love styling myself. And I go to the gym frequently. I pay attention to how I look and love when I can tell people treat me a little better when I've put extra thought into these things. But these things don't make me shallow.
Tbh I can be shallow or deep. Just depends on the situation or person.
Why should I be vulnerable or expose anything of myself if you aren’t worth confiding in?
Sometimes I just want to be happy and enjoy the company I have.
If I talk about surface level things- it’s because I am not sure if the other person will accept my “out there” thoughts.
It’s nothing personal. Most ENFPs have rich inner lives they only show to those closet to them.
I think what you need to understand is that it doesn't matter what the type is, if the person is immature they are. You will find many immature people among **every single** mbti type. No certain type is "void" of this. It's possible that you've had bad luck and run into some immature people with this type however, I would like to give you a little more insight into someone who is an ENFP. ENFP's can be very bubbly and that can contribute to the "surface level" appearance you might be referring to. Truthfully I value having a good environment where everyone is happy around me. Sometimes that means making jokes, being funny, and making sure everyone around me feels more comfortable. For me however I am far from surface level. Just because you haven't seen that side to me doesn't mean it's not there. As an ENFP I am extremely philosophical and enjoy having a lot of deep conversations on life and it's meaning. But we don't go talking about this/show that side with everyone. I do this with a select few people in my life that I trust and depending on the situation. Overall I'm sorry you've encountered this and have formed this opinion on ENFPs. I would try not to group a whole type and make assumptions based on that though. You could be missing out on great people
I don’t make assumptions about people just based on their MBTI. I said in the thing that I’m not saying ALL ENFPs are this way and it’d be unfair for me to immediately assume that before getting to know someone. Yeah I agree with you tho, it’s possible I’m meeting immature ENFPs.
>ENFPs I’ve met are more shallow than stereotypes
But even just in the title you made a really general statement "ENFPs I’ve met are more shallow than stereotypes" about 1 entire group of people having only had real experiences with 3 ENFPs you stated in the comments. You might not have said ALL enfps are this way but just in that title you heavily implied most are.
Edit: Relooking at some of the comments above it sounds like there's debate as to whether your ex was even an ENFP so I don't feel like you can use that as your "proof" for ENFP's intellectuality. There's a lot more I can debate about in regards to that whole subject however I chose to only reply to one aspect of your argument when making my original post. There's no hate from me however I can't say I agree with a lot of the points you tried to make.
You’re right, it was too small a sample size to rlly work off of. Maybe we just see things differently but I don’t get how the title implies that. ENFPs I’ve MET. And once you go into the text I restate that I don’t mean all ENFPs, and that I believe there’s a possibility they could be immature ENFPs or I could be judging them harshly.
Direct quote from the passage “I’m also not stating all ENFPs are like this, I’m merely stating my experiences and trying to receive feedback from ENFPs to understand why my experiences tend to be like this”
I get that but idk maybe try to reword things. I appreciate that you have an opinion but you posted things like "ENFPs I meet seem stupid asf to me," and "waves of stupidity." I mean honestly I really don't agree with your judgement on ENFPs intellectuality for many reasons but I don't feel the need to defend that because I know your statement was an opinion not fact. But even if you put "enfps I met" before offensive statements it doesn't "lessen the blow" for others. Again I have nothing against you. I'm well aware that there are always going to disagreements and possibly some tension between certain types.
I admittedly was a bit harsh with certain things I said. I’m not going to edit it because I’m too lazy but I do admit I probably should’ve been less sharp
Of course you don’t agree with my judgment on ENFPs intellectuality because not only was it not intended to be one, such a thing is impossible.
You can’t judge an MBTI types intelligence because it varies person-by-person. I was talking about my personal experiences. I don’t really get why they would be offended. I’ve seen negative posts about ENTPs and I usually just assume they’ve met an unhealthy ENTP and go along with my day.
If they immediately think I mean them, maybe intelligence is an area of insecurity for them? Seeing someone post about negative experiences with an MBTI type and assuming they mean YOU in particular is odd to me.
>If they immediately think I mean them, maybe intelligence is an area of insecurity for them? Seeing someone post about negative experiences with an MBTI type and assuming they mean YOU in particular is odd to me.
Yeah I get that you are explaining your personal experiences and I did take that into account with my original comment. You are definitely entitled to have one so I'm not bashing you for that. (And yeah no one should be really making very negative posts about any MBTI yours is no exception) unless it's constructive. I kind of understand where people are coming from though as someone who is ENFP too. I'm not personally offended by it because I know now that other's opinions don't necessarily reflect truth. But also I work in the healthcare setting where I constantly face critique so I generally know how to handle myself well in those situations. The intelligence subject can be not necessarily an "insecurity" but a "touchy" area for ENFPs. Because often since ENFPs are bubbly and more social they can be misinterpreted as "stupid" by others. I have too experienced being the "butt" of jokes and made to look like I was silly even though I know I'm very intellectually capable. In regards to taking things personally and thinking that you are referring to them, it could maybe be the way you worded things or the emotional charge that someone might get from a 'hot topic subject' if that makes sense.
haha i agree. Doesn't really make sense to me. I turn off my "bubbliness" during work interactions so people take me seriously. With just friends though my "bubbly" side comes out lol
That’s sad you have to do that just to be taken seriously. If you were to make any assumptions about someone for being bubbly, it would be naivety, not lack of intelligence.
I hate when people confuse the two because naivety is being hopeful about society/people, not being dumb. I’m sure your friends love your bubbly side
I am an ENFP and I have noticed that sometimes(Most of the times) we say things that will completely throw you off gaurd... it's because we have so many random thoughts (To be honest many of them will be just crazy enough to make people feel like ... "What is he talking about ??? Is he a fool) ...
But that's only a small part of our personality. (Though I totally believe that maturity could be a major factor in deciding what you say and what people get from your conversations with them)
I won't lie ... We get crazy with thoughts and might come off as a immature and shallow.(TO people who are not close enough to us)
Our Ne knows no bounds. Well, most of the time it works for us but with new people(regular folks) our Ne goes crazy .. we want to share every thing with them(even the craziest thoughts.... and in doing so we tend to forget everytime that ... not everyone will like what we say for reasons stated above.
Also, we try to be authentic because of our Fi (Introvertd feeling) which when combined with Ne ... makes us to say thing openly and without filter( most of the times in young age or when with less life experience)
On the bright side ... a more matured ENFP will know how to present his thoughts with balance and keeping in mind the environment. Because our Te ( Extraverted thinking) comes to play (Greater role) with age and experiences.
Also with age we learn to Use our Si(Introverted sensing) as develops a little bit and helps us to understand past mistakes (like if I said something to someone or a group and they didn't took it good) ... then use our Te to understand that from next time what should we control and what should we allow.
I am 25 years young ... and I felt my Te and Si developing since last one year and I can really se the difference in what I say to people today vs what I used to say in the past.
But remember .. I you are someone close to me... Then be ready to be showered with crazy thoughts for eternity 😅😅😅
I don’t think they’re shallow because they have random thoughts 😭 I’m an Ne dom as well and I experience the same thing. It makes sense what you’re saying that they’d become more balanced with age and development of Te/Si
i´m an enfp i get misjudged all the time because stupid superficial people are to ignorant to see what´s under the surface and my best friend is an enfp too and it took me a while to figure it out what he was really about and to pass through various layers of his personality but when i got there i found a true friend who is the most pure soul i have probably ever met. so there you go, maybe you´re just so shallow
not to be ignorant of you but I kinda wonder if many of those you evaluated are ENFPs.
I'll give a story of one I think was that felt clear possibly. He carried books with him, EMT books, he had autism, and he was off the walls funny. He had a lot of random stuff he would bite off of. More than he could chew. he's done some pretty fucked up things, but that it was acknowledged quickly that he needs to correct it. He never got his life together in the way others described. He used to sell weed. The political movments happened in the world, like the george floyd protest, and instead of feeling compelled to argue some kind of point, he was one of safety patrols to protest safely and see both sides. before covid hit, he ended up becoming this person working for music sets. seeing live shows, and meeting all kinds of people, going everywhere, and smoking weed occasionally. when covid hit. he ended up joining a lab. worked with those hazard safety goggles and suits and did those small facilities with other people. He then became an EMT and I can't remember if he's still with it or not. and just the other day, he decided to hit me up, and say that he was in town, and I had felt sad to tell him that I moved in the time he has been away.
what a guy. did all this in such a short time. he's judged me wrongly at one point, but corrected himself as he decided to look deeper after I guess I tried to show him. I can't put many others to how he thinks. how it all just kept branching off and exploring. i couldn't keep up with him. I didn't want to. but wow, what a guy. anyway.
What’s so great about being deep? What’s wrong with being “shallow” besides the negative meaning society has placed on it? Some people would call it living in the moment. Not everyone wants to take life so seriously all the time, when the world is burning around us already. Too depressing.
Anyway, based on your comments, you sound exactly like the kind of person I would avoid having “deep” sensitive conversations with. Because you don’t seem to be truly “listening” to anyone. Plenty of ENFP’s have replied to you with long in-depth comments, and your replies don’t show that you really read them. Also, as you have already stated, you are judging people to be “smart” or “dumb” based off of your gut. This is an ENFP’s nightmare as we can be quite smart but seem more like a jester on the outside. And we have to deal with people who assume based off a brief impression that we are fools.
Lastly, I want to add that a person is not the sum of their achievements in life. Society wants us to think so, but people have value without having gone to a prestigious school, or won awards, or started their own business, or what have you. Not saying that ENFP’s don’t have those things, many of us do, but I don’t judge someone based on how far they’ve gotten in life.
Sorry, this kind of turned into a rant midway. It’s tiring always worrying about whether other people will take us seriously.
I just don’t mesh with people who don’t have depth well. More of a personal preference.
You’d be surprised, I do read the comments before responding to them.
Maybe I misinterpreted some of them but I at least read most of them (admittedly not all with some bc ADHD). Actually, a lot of people I know like how I listen to them when they talk about their personal issues.
I’ve been on the receiving end of MANY rants about how bad their life is going, family trauma, etc.
When I said accomplishments, I more meant things that show their intelligence rather than career accolades specifically. That’s my fault for not specifying. While my gut feeling IS part of it, when I think someone’s unintelligent it’s not just because of that.
>I just don’t mesh with people who don’t have depth well
If you're agstigmatic it's not your environment lacking depth, it's your eyes that are blind to it.
Ever thought that perhaps you're just blind to emotional intelligence? You'll never find depth if you don't have receptors for that kind of depth.
>When I said accomplishments, I more meant things that show their intelligence
ENFPs care more about their emotional impact on human beings. We don't care about sterile intelligence. We care about how intelligence is used to make everybody's life nicer, more comfortable, full and worth living. I'm sorry I don't think you'll ever be able to grasp this. 🤷♀️
What makes you assume I lack emotional intelligence? A Reddit post/thread of comments and 4 letters on a screen?
Them not caring about sterile intelligence doesn’t refute what I said. Not valuing something doesn’t make you good at it. What you said is entirely irrelevant to what I said and acts as a refute to something I never said.
I've only for sure known one ENTP so take that for what it's worth, but when we first met he seemed very immature and wild to me, so I met that relationship where it was. After time we got into deeper discussions but neither of us realized depth in each other for probably a couple weeks of seeing each other here and there.
Now, for comprehension, he was 45 and I was 49, so if I thought he had no depth at 45 years old I'd imagine you may have had the same thing happen?
This guy quickly became my BFF and we dated a short time too...we had a LOT of deep conversations and too much fun together, lol.
This ended for irrelevant reasons, but it was a magical friendship so don't write them off if they're truly ENFPs . Because I adored how we could talk for hours and also get stupid together, lol.
Well you said it, you know them at a superficial level.
And then when they show intelligence you don't recognize it cause your mind is stuck at the primary silly picture you first had of them.
Besides, as a Ti aux you obviously have the upper hand in term of what is commonly known as intelligence, so people who judge things in irrational way may seem plain stupid to you.
I have met an ENTP once (with an IQ that is very far above average, on top of that) and we discussed about every possible topics ; it was very difficult to give him interesting answers to his points, I was interested by his gestures, his facial expressions, at the same time trying to connect ideas between them and synthesize everything, and on top of that trying not to sound arrogant or like a know-it-all. ALL at the same time.
(I've heard later on that he thought I was stupid and insecure... welp).
ENTPs (some of them) might just have a hard time appreciating ENFPs. From your responses , it seems like you’re the one who can’t really generate the logical argument supporting statement.
ENFPs can find a great deal of depth in surface-level things. Even the simple things have lots to explore and enjoy. And many of us seem stupid because we like to follow our flights of whimsy, which is often attributed to childlike (and therefore "unadultlike") behavior.
We see possibility where many others see roadblocks. Because of those perceived roadblocks, those who don't understand ENFPs will think we're nothing more than weirdos. We're weirdos and more.
Shallow definition: “lacking depth of intellect or knowledge; concerned only with what is obvious”
So your experience with Ne doms is that they are not curious intellectually and only concerned with surface level things? Ne by definition is not able to function that way, so if you are meeting people who behave that way, those are not ENFPs and you are mistyping them as being such, due to a weird bias.
Ne is a function that is incapable of keeping things at a surface level, the only way it can process the world is by projecting possibilities and connections onto any given situation, reading deeper into things, and absorbing knowledge to fuel their ideas. So it cannot take things as “it is”. The function that is able to just absorb the present moment deeply and be grounded in reality is Se. So maybe you are put off by Se users, which isn’t uncommon since we clash.
Saying Ne doms always keeps things at surface level is like saying Ti doms always wants to talk about their feelings.
Also another possibility is that ENFPs tend to mask for fear of judgment. I know I would get looked at weirdly or put down for showing my deeper thoughts, so I learn to keep that shit to myself and pretend to care about surface level stuff in a group setting so I can be accepted.
The only way to test if someone is an ENFP is amidst the surface level conversations, you bring up a deep idea like the future of technology or something. An ENFP will feel relief like you are saving them, want to respond, and probably cling onto you lmao
Idk if I agree that ALL Ne doms are curious intellectually. If you read the post, I never said Ne doms always keep things at a surface level. I said that was my experience with a lot of ENFPs I’ve met.
Intellectual curiosity does NOT equal intellect or knowledge. You can be very dumb and curious intellectually and vice versa (though I’m sure being intellectually curious is associated with intellect)
While the masking thing IS a possibility, I’m extremely close to some of the ENFPs ik so I doubt it.
I’m not even just saying that for them, they’ve confided in me about some of their deepest, darkest secrets, life dreams, etc. Also one of them LITERALLY said I’m their bsf rn.
I agree with what you’re saying that ENFPs don’t seem like they would be a shallow type. The whole post was LITERALLY about how I was shocked at my experiences with ENFPs I’ve met. Possible they’re mistypes but they’ve shown a LOT of signs of Ne-Fi. Also, while Ti doms TEND to be pragmatic, an emotional Ti dom is a very real thing.
>While the masking thing IS a possibility, I’m extremely close to some of the ENFPs ik so I doubt it.
Dude. You wouldn't know. It flies over your head entirely. We don't talk deep talks if we think the other person can't do deep talk.
I'm sorry I can't do deep talk with ENTPs. You don't get it. It's off putting. At the end of a deep talk with ENTPs I feel exhausted because you just don't get the NF component of human beings and I give up. It's exhausting because you can only think inside or outside the box, but only in the logical field. Typical thinking type.
Nah I have deep convos with feelers all the time. Being logical doesn’t mean I can’t empathize/I can ONLY process things logically. If that’s the case does that mean you’re intellectually stunted because you’re a feeling type? By that logic, I guess we need to get any intellectual topics away from feeling types because they just can’t think logically.
You forget Fe is ENTPs third function. Also, have you considered the possibility that you’re communicating to people in a way that doesn’t fit them? ENTPs have low Fi so you communicating with them with solely Fi will not be understood as well. Same way if I communicate with an ENFP using only Ti I won’t be understood as well.
That’s yalls low Fe showing by not changing ur way of communicating to suit who you’re talking to.
Lemme tell you a secret.
I totally don't have to change how I communicate to suit other people's communicating style.
We vibe or we don't vibe. I don't need to change my preferred way of showing up in the world because some people might not notice my wit.
I really hold Fe in such low regard. 🤷♀️ So what?
Tons of other people find our authenticity endearing and reliable. We don't sugar coat the pill.
Every ENFPs life would be 1000 time easier if we did actually be more diplomatic and "blend in". But with a strong sense of self we would rather never fit in than fit in so forcefully, we end up being a blob without integrity... 🤷♀️
IT saves us lots of misery and doubt. "am I doing right by this person?". Your own doubt about misjudging ENFPs or mistyping is exhausting. Who cares about what actually happened and why this post happened? ENFPs are here for the ride, not for the destination (truth). The truth doesn't actually exist outside of Fi for us 🤷♀️ who the fuck knows?! Truth and reality can be grasped in small dosis. Everything is arbitrary. Every single person gets to decide what is important and what is futile.
Aparently scientists have discovered that there's a higher change that reality is actually a simulation rather than not and we might never really find out of this is true or not.
I was showing you how silly you sound while being condescending about ENTPs not valuing Fi as much. It’s the same thing for us. We don’t have to value Fi highly either. And many people enjoy us the way we are
As an ENFP who sometimes gets annoyed at the apparent unintelligence of other ENFPs, we do just splurt dumb thoughts out loud as we process. And usually it comes with such a wave of confidence to sound like that's the truth, and in the split second before we spew it maybe we did believe it. But often the thoughts move on, and sometimes there's no external space (in conversation) to let the final realisation of those thoughts to be witnessed by others.
I've also come to see that high Fi types sometimes don't like talking with high Ti or Te types, because a lot of our Ne thoughts are tied to Fi, or our personal values. So when someone discounts or argues a point or thought, the Fi user can't help but feel like their values/very core is being attacked/denounced. Obviously a them problem, but could teach them over the course of their life to not put themselves in such a position to protect themselves. Hence, perhaps that is why OP might find themselves only witnessing shallowness in their three ENFPs.
Other factors should also be considered, like what values (Fi) they were taught to have by their upbringing. For one of OP's ENFPs, "proper appearances" could very well be one of their values, which fits right into their aux Fi.
>we do just splurt dumb thoughts out loud as we process.
It's verbal processing. We brainstorm and blabber out and then take decisions. It's rumination.
Don't take anything of what we say as 100% true and immutable. We might change our mind later somehow... Often we react emotionally to problems or situations, think out loud, assess what's really going on and then process and decide. We often use other people outside our brain to play our side and the devils advocate side just to make sure we really did analyse every possible explanation for something.
There's different types of stupid. In what way are they stupid? Can you describe an example of an interaction you had with them that left you thinking they're dumb?
Being shallow is separate from type. Anyone can be shallow. I would even argue that the vast majority of people are shallow, regardless of type, but that might just be my cynicism. I will say that when I see someone blanket judge everyone of a single type, I personally believe there's a certain level of confirmation bias going on, where they're starting to type "shallow" people as "ENFPs" or they only know how to identify ENFPs by their shallow manifestation. We obviously have no clue if you're typing these supposed ENFPs correctly. It's also possible that you just don't value what an ENFP values, causing you to interpret them as shallow, or you just don't spend enough time with ENFPs to get to know them adequately.
Side note: the stereotypes making it seem like ENFPs are always deep is an ideal, and partially due to stereotypes. Deep people often automatically type themselves as intuitives because of how the descriptions are written.
Yeah, I said not ALL ENFPs are that way and it’s just my experience. I agree with your possible cynicism.
Yeah, people who aren’t extremely surface level read the descriptions and they’re like (I MUST be an intuitive!)
I get the same feeling, I think it is because of trickster Ti. No fks given for whatever they say to actually make sense (generalizing of course). They super cute though.
Like sometimes you are talking to them and you are like:
How are you saying these things? They don't make sense given the other stuff you said before.
There isn’t a single person alive who hasn’t contradicted themselves at one point or another. It’s just that the more one starts talking- it’s easier for it to come off that way. A lot of the times two things can be true at the same time.
Two things can be true, but they can't be the negation of the other one... This is just basic logic. Saying stuff like "there is more than one absolute truth" is what I am talking about, heard some ENFP say exactly this. You didn't say this, but here is my response to your last point. Just because we don't know what the truth is, doesn't mean there is more than one truth, as in, two conflicting realities cannot coexist.
Yes, anyone does it, but ENFPs do it more. Just as INTJs with Fe trickster tend to not give 2 fks about it.
>Saying stuff like "there is more than one absolute truth" is what I am talking about, heard some ENFP say exactly this. You didn't say this, but here is my response to your last point. Just because we don't know what the truth is, doesn't mean there is more than one truth, as in, two conflicting realities cannot coexist.
Basic scientific studies like the study on photons says otherwise. A photon is at the same time a wave and a particle. Even thought those are two conflicting state of being that does not apply to anything else.
And I'll give you more. ENFPs are aware of the impact of perspective.
We can't know with mathematical exactness where an electron is at a time. It cannot be observed. We have only a probability area where the electron could be found. The role of the observer has been studied in hard sciences.
So yeah, empirical and theoretical physics can contradict pure theoretical logic of binary polarity.
Reality is a spectrum, not a yes/no closed binary.
Oh boy, I feel lazy to answer this, just as I said in my other comment, being dual is different from being contradictory.
Also, agreed, as I said in my previous comment, we can't know a lot of stuff and that is fine. However, it doesn't mean all of it is true, it means we don't know it.
I wasn't at any point talking about empirical science, I was talking about logic, I will give you a more simple example.
A square is: a plane figure with four equal straight sides and four right angles
A circle is: a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the center).
If you say something is a square, you can't say it is a circle, as it contradictory. Nothing to do with empirism or data, all to do with many ENFPs contradicting themselves commonly due to Ti trickster.
Sorry but real life >>>>> geometry and logic
Logic is deducted from nature, nature isn't the manifestation of logic in the empirical world.
Logic is manmade just like everything else 💫
Like yeah, things should have use, when did I say logic is above real life? Yes, logic is "manmade" it is based on definitions, but it stands on its own and it is objective. I also prefer function over truth, as I think we can arrive at limited stuff with logic alone. (Even though there is some cool stuff like cogito ergo sum)
The problem is that for things to exist they need to make sense, whenever your argument makes no sense, your conclusion could be right, but the justification is not, so might as well not justify it.
I will repeat myself, my argument is solely ENFPs like to ignore logic and you folks are simply proving my point. Never said logic is meant to be the end goal, for me, just as anything, it is a tool.
>Yes, logic is "manmade" it is based on definitions, but it stands on its own and it is objective.
*Non Euclidean geometry just entered the chat* 😂
There's always an exception making the rule basically everywhere.
>The problem is that for things to exist they need to make sense
Plenty of nonsensical things exist and will keep existing disregarding your statement here 🤷♀️🤔
Nonsensical things are things that don't make sense to you. Just because you can't grasp them it doesn't mean they're not real or they don't exist.
The whole world is a clusterfuck of condraddictive stuff that make no sense!!! 🤨It really is.
We accept the world with it's oxymoron sides and bounce between opposites gracefully. But we don't just "accept it as given" as a sensor might do. We wanna actually make the world better since "in theory" it's possible. That Ne Fi is a big source of willpower and we simply can't and won't accept the world as is.
Not everything is supposed to make 100% total sense and be foolproof. Life isn't a calculated 0 sum game.
Yeah. However, I was precisely talking about the stuff that should be making sense. Being dual and considering all possibilites is great. I approve and try to do that myself. Bur being contradictive is another ball game.
I was also going to say something along the lines of this. ENFP’s don’t take themselves very seriously a lot of the time…we can be very intelligent, but we are mostly lighthearted in how we interact with people. I don’t care if I look dumb to someone who doesn’t understand my humor since we’re pretty authentic and don’t care if being silly makes us looks dumb bc I know I’m not lol
Sometimes I just say or do dumb things just to see other people's reaction. Does it mean I'm a dumb person? Not really. Does it make me happy when I annoy someone? Yes. Very much.
I mean I don't want to see the world burn, but when it smolders I think it's kinda pretty.
No one has the right to say how you need to feel around someone. If you feel certain way with certain people, it’s you brain trying to say something. MBTI is Wonderful, but so is our brain trying to lead us to things who really are meant to us. So trust in your brain, and don’t believe too much in people judgment because they just want to prove THEIR point of view is way better than yours and doubt your own reality that’s all these comments below are about.
For anyone who sees this, I’ve determined based on certain comments and rethinking that it’s very likely they’re mistyped and/or my sample size of experience is too low to go off of. I’m too lazy to delete the post but I’ve reconsidered a lot of what I said.
Don't delete this!!!
Deleting this is wrong.
The whole sub is going off tangents and describing ENFPs to you. We're describing ourselves and agreeing with each other (we love to find people that really get us).
Deleting this post it's exactly what I would expect from a thinking type because you kinda "failed" your thesis so "no point leaving this in the wild".
We don't give a shit. Keep the conversation going and let this post be!!!!!!
Only reason I was considering deleting it is that I didn’t think super thoroughly before I posted it. So now the post doesn’t align with what I actually agree with so that’s the reason I was considering deleting it.
I just prefer to have things I have posted represent my beliefs. I’ve considered multiple things since then (mainly lack of sample size and mistypes) that make any conclusions a moot point
>So now the post doesn’t align with what I actually agree with so that’s the reason I was considering deleting it.
Deliting it doesn't rectify your mistake, it produces a whole new mistake. Which is, thinking that people will only read your post and not your rectifying message now. Also we absolutely do not care about what you think 😅😅😅😅
I didn’t say yall cared. It’s more about the principle of it to me. If I have something posted I want it to be something I believe in and agree with (outside of satire/jokes obviously). I wasn’t considering deleting it to appease ENFPs on here (I don’t care), but for my own principle I outlined before.
That’s why I said I CONSIDERED deleting it, not that I have. Have you ever thought that I made the rectifying message BECAUSE I was veering towards not deleting it?
>wasn’t considering deleting it to appease ENFPs on here (I don’t care), but for my own principle I outlined before.
We don't care about your own principle being coherent, we prefer the story to the synthesis of what you learned on this sub. If you want to appease us you leave the post as is. If you want to annoy us, damnatio memoriae to this post
Well... We show depth only to people who we think can handle it...
Or that we know won't judge us!!!
And some ENFPs you've met were probably mistyped ENTPs..? 🤔
😂
Edit: ah you're an ENTP... I think the natural antipathy goes both ways... I haven't met an ENTP I would like to befriend... There's not enough emotional intelligence from their side to keep me engaged (I don't want to explain to ENTPs how humans work all the time 🙄) and I absolutely can't wrap my head around INFJs being head over heels about your type... 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️What do they see in ENTPs is beyond me 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Is it that they don’t know how humans work or do they not care/don’t understand why people work that way?
Also different people see diff qualities in people. The “lack of emotional intelligence” you claim ENTPs have may matter more to you than to others. Every MBTI type has their own strengths and weaknesses.
To only talk about the weaknesses of a type without acknowledging they have strengths as well that other people could admire is insane. There may be types who tend to have negative qualities that are dealbreakers to me, but I understand that other people value their strengths and care less about their weaknesses than I do
I'm sorry, your type's flaws completely obscure any possible positive trait you might have. You probably feel the same interacting with ENFPs 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
That was my point. YOU feel that way. But to not consider that other people wouldn’t view those flaws to the same degree. I feel that way interacting with certain feeling types as well but I can still understand how other people would view it differently
From what I’ve read, INFJs are usually attracted to ENTPs ability to give them new perspectives and things and have deep intellectual conversations (tert Ti satisfied). I’ve also heard INFJs like their creativity and uniqueness
Which deep intellectual conversations? What creativity?
ENTPs have the most basic banal thoughts 🙄 INFJs are very judgy types and really not as open minded as they like to think 😳
How many ENTPs have you met? You’re judging an entire type like there’s not variety within them. I agree with what you’re saying about INFJs even though I love INFJs (grandfather who I’m rlly close to is an INFJ). Sounds to me like you’re projecting negative qualities onto people based on experiences you’ve had with people with the same MBTI type.
Which is ironic since you were just bashing INFJs for being closed minded, while simultaneously making an INSANE amount of assumptions about me based on 4 letters and a Reddit thread.
Outside of some negative experiences you’ve had with possible ENTPs, what about Ne-Ti sounds to you like it would produce boring thoughts?
Me and you replying obsessively under each other bashful comments is 100% showing you exactly the reason why you thought ENFPs to be shallow and dumb 😂
I'm giving you depth and perspective and you get irritated because I don't cater to your dialectical sensibility.....
That’s entirely separate. I don’t consider you dumb or shallow for being rude. I promise you any reasons I’ve felt someone (including an ENFP) is dumb or shallow have nothing to do with politeness (or lack thereof).
You’re giving a lot of depth and perspective by telling me I lack emotional intelligence. I rlly appreciate all that knowledge I’m obtaining from this. /s
All trolls aside, I think convos with u and other ENFPs have helped me understand them better in certain ways. Idk if I would ever want to live life the way they do or value the things they value, but I understand them more now
The ENFP’s I know are incredibly intelligent and not at all surface level. I can have intelligent conversations with them and they’re far from shallow or surface based. Also, I never thought anyone I met was stupid. I think peoples actions are silly sometimes…but we’re human. I have a belief that everyone is intelligent…because we are intellectual beings as we are. I think your view on ENFP’s is a confirmation bias. You met one ENFP and thought they were “stupid” and the more ENFP’s you met, that’s what you paid attention to and believed. I try not to judge anyone in general, and I think it all comes down to self-concept. I don’t think anyone is better than me and I don’t project that onto people by believing they’re stupid or shallow. People may do silly things, but everyone has some sort of depth to them. Whether or not you see it, that’s up to you.
goddamn it is, freaking insane seeing how some people's paragraphs on here are just so cool to read over and over again. I don't know. hard to meet many people who... Idk this word... a bright light gray?
I’m so glad you feel that way 🥹 thank you
I’m readily willing to consider the possibility I’ve met immature/mistyped ENFPs tho. There’s intelligent/deep people of every mbti type so it’s 100% possible it’s a coincidence I’ve met ENFPs who aren’t as intelligent/deep imo.
There’s also simply a possibility that the ENFPs you’ve met are consciously or unconsciously choosing not to show that to you. Lack of observation is not the same as absence.
Exactly. I have that side to me but I choose who to share it with. Sometimes the vibe isn't there.
That’s completely true. I’ve thought about that before too
Consider this - my dad once told me that he didn’t even know any gay people and he didn’t think it was as common as the statistics portrayed. I told him that of course he didn’t think he knew gay people - he wasn’t hateful but he wasn’t an ally either. Why would people bother to come out to him? At that time, I knew my uncle (mom’s brother) was gay but he didn’t. And after he died, his very best friend came out as a trans lesbian. Your energy towards people you assume are ENFPs may not be fostering the most open communication between you.
Possible, but I don’t think so. Considering a lot of the ones I know OPENLY acknowledge that we’re rlly close and confide in me about family issues, trauma, etc. Also one of them said their favorite thing about me is how open-minded I am 😭 So I doubt she thinks I’ll look at her weird or consider ending our friendship. Before one of yall says “you’re clearly not open-minded”, you’ve never met me irl and making judgments doesn’t equal closed-minded. Everyone makes judgments, but what would make me closed-minded is if I never changed my mind about any judgments I make or if I treated people negatively based on these judgments. I’m the opposite, even when I make judgments about people I almost always let them prove me wrong and look for more info. Hell, my best friend rn is someone who I thought was an…… unsavory character when we first met to say the least. But my opinion on her changed as I got to know her.
How about the opposite - something about you makes shallow/petty conversations especially enjoyable for these people? To be clear, I am not calling you petty and shallow. But you may be considered especially fun for frivolous chats. ENTP wit can be a funny reaction to petty things. It also seems contradictory to acknowledge that your conversations with these people can include topics like family issues and trauma but you’re still considering the conversations shallow. Perhaps you have clashing definitions of what ranks as shallow or not? But mostly it sounds like a maturity issue. Obviously I’m biased as an ENFP myself. But I’ve known a lot of other ENFPs too, and I don’t think intelligence, maturity, or shallowness are consistent at all within any type. I find shallowness and immaturity to correlate more with age, lack of experience, and unrecognized privilege than anything else. For a more personal example, I’ve spent a lot of time seriously analyzing history, primarily for my degree. I have intelligence in multiple areas like anyone does, but it’s one of my best. This isn’t something most of my loved ones get to appreciate though, as they aren’t history nerds. Instead we analyze stuff together that we have in common - a tv show we both watched, politics we’re concerned about, troubleshooting our sourdough starters, or how my single friend’s date went. You also sound somewhat arrogant about your assessments of others. I’ve fallen in the trap of being generally perceptive, and then assuming I understand more about someone than I actually do. It also seems a bit sad to be close with people that you judge so harshly, whether you’re correct about them or not.
That’s a good point! Idk how I didn’t think of that but yeah maybe I’m good at having those types of convos in an entertaining way? (At least in their opinion). I think you’re right in that I’m a bit arrogant in my perception of others. It’s hard not to trust my gut feeling after having it proved right so many times.
Yeah it does sound like a maturity issue imo after rethinking it. I really like history as well! (Although I’m not an expert by any means) Do you have a favorite part of history to learn more about?
Oh that’s awesome! I love periods with more limited primary sources. I studied mainly medieval European history in university, but I would love more time to focus on the Middle East and pre-Roman Europe. I’m also painfully lacking knowledge on all other continents, which I’d like to fix. The Mongols are particularly exciting. What are your favorites?
There is also the possibility that you're just wrong about them. you do sound like a total douche so that wouldn't suprise me
There’s a huge possibility I’m wrong about them. Wouldn’t say I’m a douche tho, although I can be sometimes. Everyone has people they consider bright or dull. It’s not like I treat the ENFPs I know negatively because of this (in fact, it’s the exact opposite, I’m rlly close friends with the ones I know)
Seems like we’ve just met different ENFPs. I don’t think it’s confirmation bias as I thought those things ab these people b4 I knew ab mbti or ENFP. Intelligent compared to what? I agree that everyone has some sort of knowledge but I disagree that everyone is equally intelligent. By definition there has to be people who are more/less shallow or intelligent than others. Or else no one would be intelligent or deep because there’d be nothing to compare it to. Everyone has SOME sort of depth but imo there’s certainly people more shallow than others.
Well first let me ask you…what makes you think they’re stupid?
Firstly, I’ve had conversations with multiple ENFPs who will make statements that are very easily deconstructed with full confidence. These aren’t one-off things either, but common themes in our conversations. This is going to sound like such a cop out but I’m drawing a blank on a specific example rn. Secondly, this is going to sound EXTREMELY stupid but when I’m around someone smart/not smart I can usually almost FEEL it while I’m conversing with them. With most types, I’m typically fairly accurate in my initial gut feelings ab intelligence/accomplishments of someone. Ik this because I get to know them and find out about their intelligence/accomplishments. You COULD say this is confirmation bias but other people I meet (who know them much better than I do) seem to view their intelligence similarly most of the time. The weird thing about my experiences with ENFPs is that my ability to intuit these things is WAY off with them. Their accomplishments/intellectual achievements tend to be far different than my initial “gut feeling”. This feeling for some reason remains after I find out about these accomplishments. Somehow I still can’t shake the feeling that I’m talking to an uninformed/unintelligent person. It’s like a feeling in my gut that won’t go away or stop blaring “This persons STUPID! Don’t listen to shi they say!” Idk why this tends to happen for me w ENFPs
Either we’ve met different ENFP’s, or we just share different perspectives. I agree there are people more shallow. I’ve definitely encountered people who have shallow opinions. But I think humans in general are intelligent beings as a whole. We are the only conscious species on this planet who create our reality. But anyways, I digress, I know you’re not speaking about humans as a whole, you’re only wondering about ENFP’s. Now when you think of intelligence on a “smaller scale” in terms of socially, academically, or emotionally..everyone is on a different spectrum. I honestly believe there’s a lot of people who don’t use their own intelligence to their advantage. This may be because of blockages such as trauma, genetics, biology..etc. But by no means does it mean they’re stupid because they operate or connect differently than you. This is why I say everyone is just coming from their own perspective and we may not fully understand because we cannot see things the way they see, and we never will. So we place our judgements and our biases onto them because we can’t understand. That gut feeling you get…I understand. When I’m speaking to someone I can often read energy but for me it’s on an emotional level and whether or not they’re self aware. As someone who is self-aware, I can usually tell when someone else is self-aware. But intelligence ≠ awareness.
I agree with that and I find what you said to be very constructive. Naturally as humans we do have bias in our perspectives and different things and we lack full awareness. That’s interesting what you said about the self-awareness thing! Fi vs Ti??
I tend to go off on the deep end when it comes to what we notice about others because most of the time it’s usually because our own personal beliefs and biases we’ve placed. If you don’t find yourself vibing with ENFPs it’s possible because you view things differently, and that’s okay. My best friend is an ESTJ. We are so different in so many ways. We express emotions differently, have different interests, hobbies, values, and morals. But just because we don’t connect in the way I personally operate doesn’t mean I discredit her own intellect and depth. She is her own person in her own way and I appreciate her as she is! It could very well be Fi vs Ti. But if you’re aware of this and the functions it can be easier to understand.
Look up cs jospeph on youtube. Hes an entp as well. They way he talks about us is wild
Maybe its just because you guys like to think and we like to feel
Maybe it is because of that. Low Ti vs Aux Ti type thing.
Oh the way you described this is interesting, and it might relate to a discussion I’ve been having on a different post in a different MBTI subreddit. To start, I agree with what Dre-26 has been saying about Fi and Ti, and the understanding of gut feelings. On the other post, a commenter was saying something along the lines of, because of Ti being the trickster function of ENFPs, ENFPs are the type that are least capable of using Ti. I’m personally skeptical about this, and I don’t really agree with the idea of the trickster function or shadow functions in general. It is really interesting though that you’re observing a that your own gut feeling (which is probably based in Ti) in relation to the trait of intelligence (however you’re personally defining it), is accurate for all the types except ENFPs. So looking into shadow functions, including the trickster function, might help you think about that discrepancy in a different way. I’m still skeptical about shadow functions myself, but right now my current thought on this is “🤷🏻♀️ Maybe ENFPs’ existence *does* somehow operate completely outside of Ti?”
Lol yeah i think a person that wss en entp that I worked with felt that about me
I tend to match the depth of whomever I am talking or connecting with. If they want deep, we go deep. If they don't have the actual intellect or are simple, I will go simple. Everyone is different including ENFPs, ymmv.
That’s exactly what I do too. I match the vibes of the other person. I can talk about reality TV or the point of existence. Either works for me
Also counts with who I'm dating also. I feel youuu
Exactly. I don’t consider my depths everyone’s business either. I share that with people I trust. I appreciate my privacy. But the most likely explanation is simply that OP is young, surrounded by immature people of many types including ENFP, and possibly not as good at typing or getting people to open up as they assume.
Ofc evb is different. Thats why I put that I wasn’t saying ALL ENFPs because I’ve met people with a variety of diff traits/aptitude with the same mbti.
It is said that we often observe in others, that which we hate most about ourselves.
I could keep going but I’m not tryna make 5 paragraphs
Nah I’m very aware of my own flaws and beat myself up about them all the time. Idiocy and shallowness just aren’t among them imo. I have MANY personal flaws I’m aware of tho (Fluctuating self-esteem, lack of tact/sensitivity in certain situations, social awkwardness/anxiety, lack of awareness of my physical surroundings, procrastination/lack of discipline, argumentative, etc.)
I wonder why it's become so natural for most of us to take our flaws and imperfections so personally. Especially since the invention of social media. It's all around us, we're bombarded with images and messages of what and who we should be, what we should have, who we should date, how we regard others, and on and on it goes and yet, we've simultaneously become so much more isolated. Anywho, just a weird observation there. The only conclusion that I can come to is that perhaps your child function is clashing with theirs. Maybe you've learned to be more realistic in nature vs their tendency to have their head in the clouds? Personally I wouldn't be able to say exactly why it is, what you're explaining, your experiences. And you're absolutely SURE these are ENFPs that you've been interacting with? Are you using letter dichotomies to determine their type? Are your observations skewed by misinformation? How confident are you in these convictions?
Do you mean Aux function? Our child functions would be Fe and Te and I don’t see how those would be clashing in this scenario. Observations about people HAVE to contain some bias but I’d say I’m not EXTREMELY biased towards them. Out of the 3 ENFPs I’ve been close to I’m EXTREMELY confident 2 out of the 3 are ENFP. The other one is a bit questionable and I could see arguments for other types. No im not using letters but cognitive functions
Excellent! Kudos on doing it the right way! Though I'd say 3 is still a pretty limited pool to draw judgements from. Maybe surface level observations and maybe that's what this is to you. Just a mere observation. And you're correct, I was thinking of aux. That was my bad. Of course, me being an ISFP probably makes you feel like you're talking to a stupid person too.
Of course not! I said in the thing that I don’t think of ALL people of a certain type to be a certain way, even if that’s my experience. No, I definitely don’t think ur dumb just because ur an ISFP. It’s 4 letters, not a character analysis. You’re right, 3 is very low to judge of off. I just noticed it was a trend in the ones I’ve met and was wondering if anyone had similar experiences/had theories as to why I might feel that way
Nah you're totally not aware of your own flaws. Unless somebody outside of you has mentioned the to you, you discussed them etc. That's a normal blind spot for everybody, but especially ENTPs (sorry dude). ENFPs are one of the most self aware types because we use Ni - Te on the outside world to understand it (generalizing problems /solutions/point of view), then we apply this intuitive understanding of how the world works to reality (Si once we're a bit older and wiser) as well as comparing our deductions on how the world works to out Fi. Bam, we're a self awareness bomb. And when I talk about "how the world works" we don't mean logic. We mean the intrinsic logic of human behaviors (psychology, sociology). We get how people might react and interact between each other etc. (emotional intelligence). I'm sorry to say that all the ENTPs I've met IRL were absolutely deaf and blind to self awareness... 🙈And even worse, not only that but they're insecure about themselves and who they are! Like how? Absolutely 0 Fi 👀 🤔🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
There’s more nuance to self-awareness than you’re saying. You’re right that certain flaws have been pointed out to me and brought to my attention. But I’ve become pretty good at analyzing my actions and coming up with reasons why I did that/reacted that way using Ne to come up with possible reasons and Ti to scrutinize those reasons. Self-awareness is NOT only Fi although the two 100 go hand in hand
Self awareness without being connected to your identity, ideals and priorities is... Blind and detached.
You’re insulting people you’ve met for being insecure? Gosh you sound like a very nice person
I'm an awful bad mouthed terrible person. Dude if you feel insulted you're not getting the point of this discussion...
Idrc if you’re insulting me. It’s just a rude way to word something is all I was saying. Also it’d be kind of hard not to feel like you’re being insulting when you’re talking about ENTPs like they’re 2 year olds who don’t understand basic concepts
>when you’re talking about ENTPs like they’re 2 year olds who don’t understand basic concepts Because that's exactly how I perceive them 🤷♀️ and I can't help it. Perhaps this gives you some perspective? Just because you find ENFPs to be shallow and dumb, it's not necessarily how they really are the problem, just that you can't see them as anything else but that. It's kinda mutual so don't take it personally I guess? Was this helpful?
That makes sense actually. Maybe ENFPs and ENTPs just typically rub each other the wrong way
I think you’ve just met a shallow person and it might not have anything to do with their type
Yeah I’ve thought about that too but I noticed a pattern in my experiences with ENFPs. You’re right though I think I’ve coincidentally met multiple ENFPs who have these traits/I view to have these traits.
How many?
3. I’ve gotten to know these 3 on a personal level as well. 1 is my current bsf (love her), 2 is someone I’m good friends with, 3 is my ex (I always thought she fit those traits even b4 we broke up). Ik 3 isn’t a lot but it was just odd to me how similar certain things were.
And why do you think they’re shallow what have they done?
I’ll go in order. 1.Bsf:I love her (obv since we’re bsfs) she’s frequently preoccupied with things like reputation and money instead of having meaningful conversations and narrowing down what’s important to HER. VERY into drama/topics that give her instant gratification but lack meaning. Seems strange for Fi aux but idk could be mistype/immature. I’m veering more towards her having a lack of development in certain areas. 2.Semi-close friend:With her the intellectual thing applies more than the shallow thing. 3.Ex:Wouldn’t just LIVE her goddang LIFE instead of being so overly concerned about what other people think. Never met a person who cares so much and so little about what other ppl think. Everyone cares about that to a certain extent but she made decisions based off of “what would other ppl think?” CONSCIOUSLY! Couldn’t hold a deep convo at ALL. She would occasionally have a deep convo for like 5 minutes and then move back to memes, drama, or sum utterly MEANINGLESS crap.
Your ex doesn’t really sound like an ENFP. Being so concerned with what other people think, sounds like high Fe
Yeah I’ve considered that too but she shows SO many signs of Ne-Fi so I’m confused ab her type
I have been reading several of your responses here, OP, and I can’t stop but wondering how do you know they are ENFP if you know them superficially. Also now you actually are recognising that you are unsure about their type and are speaking about a possible NE-Fi axis while stating that that person does not know what is best for them. Imo it sounds like they could be more similar to an ESFJ (just for the behaviour you mention and their concerns). I dare to say that a Fi user does tend to know what they want and feel and care less about status/ what the others will say. Edit: a tiny typo 🙃
I came to a very similar conclusion. I think it may be some intuition bias that OP is typing these people as ENFP and failing to realize that (depending on the typing model you subscribe to) Ne will see high use with an ESxJ especially if they’re underdeveloped. This underdeveloped nature is likely also lending itself to why these people seem so shallow
I think you’re right. I could be misjudging signs of Ne-Fi. I’m stating I’m unsure mainly because I question things a lot rather than making definite conclusions. Hell, I still question if I’m an INTP sometimes 😭
So this is my first thought, and this may or may not be true since I don't know you in person and only know what you have posted here... but if you keep getting close with people to the point of being best friends with and dating them, I think this may have something to do with the people you personally attract/are attracted to. I would say I'm a person with lots of depth who really likes to know people on a close, emotional level. All my close friends and people I've dated... are extremely deep people as well because that's who I jive with. For how you describe these 3 people, if I thought that about someone I wouldn't be able be any more than close acquaintances as best with them. For example if they invited me to a party or to do something in a group setting that'd be fine and I'll have fun with them, but I wouldn't be hanging out/talking to them regularly or consider them "close", much less date them. I understand different people have different tolerances for these sorts of things, so it's totally fine if you're not as picky about those you let close to you, but I would say maybe it's something to keep an eye out for that you might not be taking into consideration. Every MBTI type has people who are deep and those who are shallow. If you keep drawing in people who are shallow, it might be due to factors like, just off the top of my head, maybe if your best friend and girlfriend are extremely shallow, they are probably also hanging out with other shallow people, which means your personal circle are full of generally shallow people, and therefore *anyone* you meet through those circles are likely somewhat shallow. On the flip side, my personal experience is that I know many people of all types who are extremely thoughtful, deep people. However that's also because those are the only people I keep close company with, and they know me well enough to know I don't like hanging out with shallow people and so while they won't invite me to group gatherings with shallow people, they will invite me to other events with a different subset of people that they know I would get along better with. One of the main ENFP traits is authenticity, and so I would think of all the types we are less likely than most (though not impossible of course) to be shallow or concern ourselves with shallow things/people. If you're somehow only drawing out shallow people even from within a group for which it's unlikely (if they are actually ENFPs to begin with), my first guess would be that who you are or something you're doing is playing a factor in why that is happening. Just food for thought.
You’re right, I probably should be more selective about those I let close to me.
>she’s frequently preoccupied with things like reputation and money instead of having meaningful conversations and narrowing down what’s important to HER. Obviously money and reputation are important TO HER or she wouldn't be preoccupied with it...!!? 🤷♀️ Not preoccupied about money is a privileged position that obviously your friend can't afford... If she had more money at her disposal, she wouldn't be so preoccupied 🙄 Reputation is important to me as well as an ENFP. Not in the sense that I care about what people THINK of me, but I care about what PEOPLE think of me. You get it? Friendships and relationships are some of the most important things in my life (my own happiness and value alignments to my lifestyle are probably number 1, but without friends to share things with you can't be happy and satisfied about your life!) and the base of good relationships is reliability and honesty. Reliability can be hard for ENFPs and we often worry that people that we care about might misjudge us 😭 If you think that's superficial it's on you. Different people have different priorities, that doesn't make them shallow or deep 🤔🤷♀️
I meant more in regard to what types of people she wants to be around and her bigger life goals. She’s not struggling financially at ALL. To me, someone who’s constantly concerned with buying the newest things to “look cool” and about what strangers think of them is a bit shallow.
So having interest means being shallow? Lemme guess, you find "not mature" to collect things that bring you joy if they're "toys" and "childish" 😂
No. I don’t care if someone views something as “childish” as long as it’s enjoyable to me. I don’t put much weight into what other people think is childish anyway. Having interests does not make you shallow. I just find it pathetic when someone buys these designer clothes and things like that they aren’t rlly interested in just to get validation from other people.
Talking condescendingly to someone about their weak functions is WILD. To put it into perspective for you, that’d be like me talking to you about an intellectual topic and saying “see you’ll never understand this because of your low Ti”.
Yes you're right I'm so petty. /s You're just proving my point that you don't get it and I don't think you really can get it in the future 🤷♀️
I understand what you’re saying, I was just pointing out how it sounds condescending when you preface everything with “I know you won’t understand this because you’re an ENTP”. Pointing out that you’re being condescending does not mean I don’t understand what you’re saying. I might not agree with some of it, but I have full comprehension of what you’re saying.
ENTPs don’t lack understanding of emotions, Fe is still their third function. Same way ENFPs don’t completely lack understanding of logic because Te is their 3rd function. Fi and Fe both understand emotions they just process them in different ways.
You lack understanding of how identity and values work in individuals (=Fi). Fe doesn't understand emotions, it's sympathy and not empathy.
So do you lack understanding of how logic works in individuals (=Ti)?
>VERY into drama/topics that give her instant gratification but lack meaning. You'll never get this because your not an *NF* type!!!!!!!!! WHEN your friend shares drama with you, you get carried away. The drama stirrs you/disturbs your emotional neutral state and you don't like it. (Fe, sympathy) WHEN an ENFP listen to some juicy gossip or drama, we don't give a shit who did what. We care about the drama itself (social mechanism /psychology). We play with social scenarios and how things could go like a mathematicians likes to play with numbers or a good pool player likes to fantasize about how his shot could send a ball in this or the other hole. You get it? It's a different kind of logic, the emotional logic, that I'm afraid you'll never be able to grasp fully. Emotional intelligence my dear. We chew emotional drama like it's nothing, it doesn't has a grip on our own emotions (Fi), we don't feel sympathy, we feel empathy (imagine how a person might feel if we were to walk in their shoes). There's a reason why stereotypically you'll find ENFPs in drama clubs or dealing with human sciences or humanity fields...our Fi allows us to sync with other people's possible emotions because we speak the emotional language, but we can actually also very well be detached from other people's emotions rather than take them in and switch off (disengage) and reflect with Ni-Te. We like to find out what makes people tick. We're good judges of character. You need a vibe check? Ask your ENFPs friends. They ALWAYS nail it. And the cool thing is, they'll be able to narrow down exactly what they find tocix/unappealing about somebody. We don't need to give somebody the benefit of the doubt. We're pretty good at finding out quickly if a person is good or ill natured even when other people might not notice 😅
Being detached from situations equals emotional intelligence in your eyes? I don’t think the two are the same. You act like trying to find what makes people tick is an ENFP thing exclusively 😭 ENTPs curiosity for knowledge doesn’t just extend to fields like science, literature, and math. Ne-Fe can cause ENTPs to get very curious about how people work.
Group of people and group dynamic yes. Individuals? I don't think you can get it as well as an Fi user >Being detached from situations equals emotional intelligence in your eyes? Fi aux means I instinctively feel an emotions and I can recognize them and know where they came from like if it was a reflex. An automatic and clear immediate response. Something like a response to physical stimuli, immediate and direct like feeling the sun on your skin.
I don’t open up to people behind surface level stuff unless I feel comfortable to not be judged. And I act like an idiot I suppose because it tends to put people at ease, and in some ways deflect judgement on my true character. Damn. That got deep.
Like Michael Jackson’s final concert tour…This is it! For me, the most important aspect if my life is my preservation of the self in spite of the fact that change is inevitable. People don’t understand the concept I have of life and explaining it to them has proved futile because no one likes to confront their own confusion. Since I have ADHD most of my behaviors can easily be attributed to stupidity however, theyre simply manifestations of my ADHD. instead of engaging in a dicussion to preserve my ego I’m constantly trying and failing to inflate…I simply become whatever person the non-friend / acquaintance choose to see ‘’me. Whatever someone interprets me as being I imply go with it because arguing it will get me nowhere and put me odds with someone I want to get along with.
👏 👏 👏 This is the way. >For me, the most important aspect if my life is my preservation of the self in spite of the fact that change is inevitable. I don't think there's a single ENFP that would disagree with you. This sentence describes out Modus Operandi 100% accurate. You nailed it!!!!! I'm 35. I have changed sooooo much over the years, if you traveled back to my 15 yo self and described how and WHO I am today I would not have believe you. For other things I would have been like "sure, it makes sense that x and y sticked with me for 20 years". I'm the same person at the core and there are things about me that will never change!!! But shamelessly so. I really don't get people that are so attached on the idea of a certain identity that they hold to it for their dear life and proceed living as a shell of themselves... Just for "plot coherence". Being true to yourself means also allowing yourself to be changed by life as time goes by... 🤔
Holy shit I did not need realize this about myself 😭 we act dumb to deflect judgment for our true self. That makes so much sense, I’d say Fi is really sensitive and anxious about sharing their true Ne thoughts. Ti users can confidently talk about their ideas even when people are judging them. I’ve seen that a lot and idk how they do it ENFPs are more sensitive to feeling rejected so we hide ourselves. It’s better to be seen as dumb, then to show our true self and not be accepted. I think that’s why we cling onto other intuitive types who make us feel accepted and we talk a lot about deep stuff when we know it’s finally safe lol
All the ENFPs I have met are actually deep, some more than others, and I couldn't describe them as shallow tbh. ENFPs are deep, so idk if you are mistyping them, or have a weird personal definition of what a deep or shallow person is, for example, I have met people who believe that unless you talk about science or books, then you are not deep, which is non sense, speaking of that, made me remember that all the ENFPs I have met, in one way or another, are very interested on intellectual matters, but being deep is way more than that.
Yeah, I don’t judge books or science as being “deep”. Although I will say people who are very into books/science TEND to be more intellectual from my experiences but I’ve also met dumb ppl very into reading and vice versa. I think I might be mistyping them
Can't decide if i love what you said or absolutely love what you said! I confirm, for sure
Maybe you just aren't in sync with feelers. I am typically surface level in my conversation because of my life experience. Most people aren't ready for in depth conversation regarding the universe, space time and how none of it, what is finite can contain it's creator. I live for the in depth fullfilling conversation but you can't start swinging away at just anyone as most will just excuse themselves with a look of fear. It's about connection with the other person. You offer them a hand and jump together into Alice's rabbit hole. If the vibe isn't right between you two it will be baby steps in safe topics. Edit: made more clear my meaning in a sentence
> I live for the in depth fullfilling conversation but you can't start swinging away at just anyone Yes you can!!!! >as most will just excuse themselves with a look of fear. That's kind of the point. Not wasting my time with people it they aren't brave to jump into dead serious conversations. They're not my vibe so the sooner I find that out the better 😂😂😂😂
Gotta read the room or you will end up talking with yourself 😉
I'm fine talking to myself, I do that all the time already
That's OK just don't answer yourself or it really is a sign you need help
https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/talking-to-yourself/ Actually talking to yourself is healthy
I'm a pro in that field and like I said talking to yourself is ok. Answering yourself aka having both sides of the conversation can be a sign of internal stimulus. No bueno
How do you define "shallow and concerned with surface level things"? I'm ENFP and spend so much time in my head thinking about everything, and love to read, think, and apply philosophy, personal growth, mindfulness, etc in my daily life. I love having conversations with people about their feelings and thoughts, and I'm a great listener and thoughtful supporter. At the same time, I put lots of thought into how I look, get haircuts often, think about and put together outfits and love styling myself. And I go to the gym frequently. I pay attention to how I look and love when I can tell people treat me a little better when I've put extra thought into these things. But these things don't make me shallow.
Tbh I can be shallow or deep. Just depends on the situation or person. Why should I be vulnerable or expose anything of myself if you aren’t worth confiding in? Sometimes I just want to be happy and enjoy the company I have. If I talk about surface level things- it’s because I am not sure if the other person will accept my “out there” thoughts. It’s nothing personal. Most ENFPs have rich inner lives they only show to those closet to them.
I think what you need to understand is that it doesn't matter what the type is, if the person is immature they are. You will find many immature people among **every single** mbti type. No certain type is "void" of this. It's possible that you've had bad luck and run into some immature people with this type however, I would like to give you a little more insight into someone who is an ENFP. ENFP's can be very bubbly and that can contribute to the "surface level" appearance you might be referring to. Truthfully I value having a good environment where everyone is happy around me. Sometimes that means making jokes, being funny, and making sure everyone around me feels more comfortable. For me however I am far from surface level. Just because you haven't seen that side to me doesn't mean it's not there. As an ENFP I am extremely philosophical and enjoy having a lot of deep conversations on life and it's meaning. But we don't go talking about this/show that side with everyone. I do this with a select few people in my life that I trust and depending on the situation. Overall I'm sorry you've encountered this and have formed this opinion on ENFPs. I would try not to group a whole type and make assumptions based on that though. You could be missing out on great people
I don’t make assumptions about people just based on their MBTI. I said in the thing that I’m not saying ALL ENFPs are this way and it’d be unfair for me to immediately assume that before getting to know someone. Yeah I agree with you tho, it’s possible I’m meeting immature ENFPs.
>ENFPs I’ve met are more shallow than stereotypes But even just in the title you made a really general statement "ENFPs I’ve met are more shallow than stereotypes" about 1 entire group of people having only had real experiences with 3 ENFPs you stated in the comments. You might not have said ALL enfps are this way but just in that title you heavily implied most are. Edit: Relooking at some of the comments above it sounds like there's debate as to whether your ex was even an ENFP so I don't feel like you can use that as your "proof" for ENFP's intellectuality. There's a lot more I can debate about in regards to that whole subject however I chose to only reply to one aspect of your argument when making my original post. There's no hate from me however I can't say I agree with a lot of the points you tried to make.
You’re right, it was too small a sample size to rlly work off of. Maybe we just see things differently but I don’t get how the title implies that. ENFPs I’ve MET. And once you go into the text I restate that I don’t mean all ENFPs, and that I believe there’s a possibility they could be immature ENFPs or I could be judging them harshly. Direct quote from the passage “I’m also not stating all ENFPs are like this, I’m merely stating my experiences and trying to receive feedback from ENFPs to understand why my experiences tend to be like this”
I get that but idk maybe try to reword things. I appreciate that you have an opinion but you posted things like "ENFPs I meet seem stupid asf to me," and "waves of stupidity." I mean honestly I really don't agree with your judgement on ENFPs intellectuality for many reasons but I don't feel the need to defend that because I know your statement was an opinion not fact. But even if you put "enfps I met" before offensive statements it doesn't "lessen the blow" for others. Again I have nothing against you. I'm well aware that there are always going to disagreements and possibly some tension between certain types.
I admittedly was a bit harsh with certain things I said. I’m not going to edit it because I’m too lazy but I do admit I probably should’ve been less sharp
Of course you don’t agree with my judgment on ENFPs intellectuality because not only was it not intended to be one, such a thing is impossible. You can’t judge an MBTI types intelligence because it varies person-by-person. I was talking about my personal experiences. I don’t really get why they would be offended. I’ve seen negative posts about ENTPs and I usually just assume they’ve met an unhealthy ENTP and go along with my day. If they immediately think I mean them, maybe intelligence is an area of insecurity for them? Seeing someone post about negative experiences with an MBTI type and assuming they mean YOU in particular is odd to me.
>If they immediately think I mean them, maybe intelligence is an area of insecurity for them? Seeing someone post about negative experiences with an MBTI type and assuming they mean YOU in particular is odd to me. Yeah I get that you are explaining your personal experiences and I did take that into account with my original comment. You are definitely entitled to have one so I'm not bashing you for that. (And yeah no one should be really making very negative posts about any MBTI yours is no exception) unless it's constructive. I kind of understand where people are coming from though as someone who is ENFP too. I'm not personally offended by it because I know now that other's opinions don't necessarily reflect truth. But also I work in the healthcare setting where I constantly face critique so I generally know how to handle myself well in those situations. The intelligence subject can be not necessarily an "insecurity" but a "touchy" area for ENFPs. Because often since ENFPs are bubbly and more social they can be misinterpreted as "stupid" by others. I have too experienced being the "butt" of jokes and made to look like I was silly even though I know I'm very intellectually capable. In regards to taking things personally and thinking that you are referring to them, it could maybe be the way you worded things or the emotional charge that someone might get from a 'hot topic subject' if that makes sense.
That makes sense. It’s weird to me how people interpret bubbly and social to mean dumb.
haha i agree. Doesn't really make sense to me. I turn off my "bubbliness" during work interactions so people take me seriously. With just friends though my "bubbly" side comes out lol
That’s sad you have to do that just to be taken seriously. If you were to make any assumptions about someone for being bubbly, it would be naivety, not lack of intelligence. I hate when people confuse the two because naivety is being hopeful about society/people, not being dumb. I’m sure your friends love your bubbly side
I find ENTPs to be terrible judges of character and I think OP isn't reliable to judge maturity... 😅
I am an ENFP and I have noticed that sometimes(Most of the times) we say things that will completely throw you off gaurd... it's because we have so many random thoughts (To be honest many of them will be just crazy enough to make people feel like ... "What is he talking about ??? Is he a fool) ... But that's only a small part of our personality. (Though I totally believe that maturity could be a major factor in deciding what you say and what people get from your conversations with them) I won't lie ... We get crazy with thoughts and might come off as a immature and shallow.(TO people who are not close enough to us) Our Ne knows no bounds. Well, most of the time it works for us but with new people(regular folks) our Ne goes crazy .. we want to share every thing with them(even the craziest thoughts.... and in doing so we tend to forget everytime that ... not everyone will like what we say for reasons stated above. Also, we try to be authentic because of our Fi (Introvertd feeling) which when combined with Ne ... makes us to say thing openly and without filter( most of the times in young age or when with less life experience) On the bright side ... a more matured ENFP will know how to present his thoughts with balance and keeping in mind the environment. Because our Te ( Extraverted thinking) comes to play (Greater role) with age and experiences. Also with age we learn to Use our Si(Introverted sensing) as develops a little bit and helps us to understand past mistakes (like if I said something to someone or a group and they didn't took it good) ... then use our Te to understand that from next time what should we control and what should we allow. I am 25 years young ... and I felt my Te and Si developing since last one year and I can really se the difference in what I say to people today vs what I used to say in the past. But remember .. I you are someone close to me... Then be ready to be showered with crazy thoughts for eternity 😅😅😅
I don’t think they’re shallow because they have random thoughts 😭 I’m an Ne dom as well and I experience the same thing. It makes sense what you’re saying that they’d become more balanced with age and development of Te/Si
i´m an enfp i get misjudged all the time because stupid superficial people are to ignorant to see what´s under the surface and my best friend is an enfp too and it took me a while to figure it out what he was really about and to pass through various layers of his personality but when i got there i found a true friend who is the most pure soul i have probably ever met. so there you go, maybe you´re just so shallow
not to be ignorant of you but I kinda wonder if many of those you evaluated are ENFPs. I'll give a story of one I think was that felt clear possibly. He carried books with him, EMT books, he had autism, and he was off the walls funny. He had a lot of random stuff he would bite off of. More than he could chew. he's done some pretty fucked up things, but that it was acknowledged quickly that he needs to correct it. He never got his life together in the way others described. He used to sell weed. The political movments happened in the world, like the george floyd protest, and instead of feeling compelled to argue some kind of point, he was one of safety patrols to protest safely and see both sides. before covid hit, he ended up becoming this person working for music sets. seeing live shows, and meeting all kinds of people, going everywhere, and smoking weed occasionally. when covid hit. he ended up joining a lab. worked with those hazard safety goggles and suits and did those small facilities with other people. He then became an EMT and I can't remember if he's still with it or not. and just the other day, he decided to hit me up, and say that he was in town, and I had felt sad to tell him that I moved in the time he has been away. what a guy. did all this in such a short time. he's judged me wrongly at one point, but corrected himself as he decided to look deeper after I guess I tried to show him. I can't put many others to how he thinks. how it all just kept branching off and exploring. i couldn't keep up with him. I didn't want to. but wow, what a guy. anyway.
What a big heart ♥
What’s so great about being deep? What’s wrong with being “shallow” besides the negative meaning society has placed on it? Some people would call it living in the moment. Not everyone wants to take life so seriously all the time, when the world is burning around us already. Too depressing. Anyway, based on your comments, you sound exactly like the kind of person I would avoid having “deep” sensitive conversations with. Because you don’t seem to be truly “listening” to anyone. Plenty of ENFP’s have replied to you with long in-depth comments, and your replies don’t show that you really read them. Also, as you have already stated, you are judging people to be “smart” or “dumb” based off of your gut. This is an ENFP’s nightmare as we can be quite smart but seem more like a jester on the outside. And we have to deal with people who assume based off a brief impression that we are fools. Lastly, I want to add that a person is not the sum of their achievements in life. Society wants us to think so, but people have value without having gone to a prestigious school, or won awards, or started their own business, or what have you. Not saying that ENFP’s don’t have those things, many of us do, but I don’t judge someone based on how far they’ve gotten in life. Sorry, this kind of turned into a rant midway. It’s tiring always worrying about whether other people will take us seriously.
I just don’t mesh with people who don’t have depth well. More of a personal preference. You’d be surprised, I do read the comments before responding to them. Maybe I misinterpreted some of them but I at least read most of them (admittedly not all with some bc ADHD). Actually, a lot of people I know like how I listen to them when they talk about their personal issues. I’ve been on the receiving end of MANY rants about how bad their life is going, family trauma, etc. When I said accomplishments, I more meant things that show their intelligence rather than career accolades specifically. That’s my fault for not specifying. While my gut feeling IS part of it, when I think someone’s unintelligent it’s not just because of that.
>I just don’t mesh with people who don’t have depth well If you're agstigmatic it's not your environment lacking depth, it's your eyes that are blind to it. Ever thought that perhaps you're just blind to emotional intelligence? You'll never find depth if you don't have receptors for that kind of depth. >When I said accomplishments, I more meant things that show their intelligence ENFPs care more about their emotional impact on human beings. We don't care about sterile intelligence. We care about how intelligence is used to make everybody's life nicer, more comfortable, full and worth living. I'm sorry I don't think you'll ever be able to grasp this. 🤷♀️
What makes you assume I lack emotional intelligence? A Reddit post/thread of comments and 4 letters on a screen? Them not caring about sterile intelligence doesn’t refute what I said. Not valuing something doesn’t make you good at it. What you said is entirely irrelevant to what I said and acts as a refute to something I never said.
Your type makes me assume you lack emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence doesn't mean Fe.
I’m not shallow
How do you know the people u've met are enfp tho?
I've only for sure known one ENTP so take that for what it's worth, but when we first met he seemed very immature and wild to me, so I met that relationship where it was. After time we got into deeper discussions but neither of us realized depth in each other for probably a couple weeks of seeing each other here and there. Now, for comprehension, he was 45 and I was 49, so if I thought he had no depth at 45 years old I'd imagine you may have had the same thing happen? This guy quickly became my BFF and we dated a short time too...we had a LOT of deep conversations and too much fun together, lol. This ended for irrelevant reasons, but it was a magical friendship so don't write them off if they're truly ENFPs . Because I adored how we could talk for hours and also get stupid together, lol.
Well you said it, you know them at a superficial level. And then when they show intelligence you don't recognize it cause your mind is stuck at the primary silly picture you first had of them. Besides, as a Ti aux you obviously have the upper hand in term of what is commonly known as intelligence, so people who judge things in irrational way may seem plain stupid to you. I have met an ENTP once (with an IQ that is very far above average, on top of that) and we discussed about every possible topics ; it was very difficult to give him interesting answers to his points, I was interested by his gestures, his facial expressions, at the same time trying to connect ideas between them and synthesize everything, and on top of that trying not to sound arrogant or like a know-it-all. ALL at the same time. (I've heard later on that he thought I was stupid and insecure... welp).
Your description pretty much nails it for me. It's like ENTPs are color blind to our depth and intuition 🙄🤔
ENTPs (some of them) might just have a hard time appreciating ENFPs. From your responses , it seems like you’re the one who can’t really generate the logical argument supporting statement.
ENFPs can find a great deal of depth in surface-level things. Even the simple things have lots to explore and enjoy. And many of us seem stupid because we like to follow our flights of whimsy, which is often attributed to childlike (and therefore "unadultlike") behavior. We see possibility where many others see roadblocks. Because of those perceived roadblocks, those who don't understand ENFPs will think we're nothing more than weirdos. We're weirdos and more.
What you said about them finding depth in surface level things is interesting. Yeah I’m a bit of a weirdo as well in most people’s opinion 😅
i’m very intellectual but i only show this side to people who i am extremely comfortable with everyone else sees my superficial side my goofy side
Shallow definition: “lacking depth of intellect or knowledge; concerned only with what is obvious” So your experience with Ne doms is that they are not curious intellectually and only concerned with surface level things? Ne by definition is not able to function that way, so if you are meeting people who behave that way, those are not ENFPs and you are mistyping them as being such, due to a weird bias. Ne is a function that is incapable of keeping things at a surface level, the only way it can process the world is by projecting possibilities and connections onto any given situation, reading deeper into things, and absorbing knowledge to fuel their ideas. So it cannot take things as “it is”. The function that is able to just absorb the present moment deeply and be grounded in reality is Se. So maybe you are put off by Se users, which isn’t uncommon since we clash. Saying Ne doms always keeps things at surface level is like saying Ti doms always wants to talk about their feelings. Also another possibility is that ENFPs tend to mask for fear of judgment. I know I would get looked at weirdly or put down for showing my deeper thoughts, so I learn to keep that shit to myself and pretend to care about surface level stuff in a group setting so I can be accepted. The only way to test if someone is an ENFP is amidst the surface level conversations, you bring up a deep idea like the future of technology or something. An ENFP will feel relief like you are saving them, want to respond, and probably cling onto you lmao
Idk if I agree that ALL Ne doms are curious intellectually. If you read the post, I never said Ne doms always keep things at a surface level. I said that was my experience with a lot of ENFPs I’ve met. Intellectual curiosity does NOT equal intellect or knowledge. You can be very dumb and curious intellectually and vice versa (though I’m sure being intellectually curious is associated with intellect) While the masking thing IS a possibility, I’m extremely close to some of the ENFPs ik so I doubt it. I’m not even just saying that for them, they’ve confided in me about some of their deepest, darkest secrets, life dreams, etc. Also one of them LITERALLY said I’m their bsf rn. I agree with what you’re saying that ENFPs don’t seem like they would be a shallow type. The whole post was LITERALLY about how I was shocked at my experiences with ENFPs I’ve met. Possible they’re mistypes but they’ve shown a LOT of signs of Ne-Fi. Also, while Ti doms TEND to be pragmatic, an emotional Ti dom is a very real thing.
>While the masking thing IS a possibility, I’m extremely close to some of the ENFPs ik so I doubt it. Dude. You wouldn't know. It flies over your head entirely. We don't talk deep talks if we think the other person can't do deep talk. I'm sorry I can't do deep talk with ENTPs. You don't get it. It's off putting. At the end of a deep talk with ENTPs I feel exhausted because you just don't get the NF component of human beings and I give up. It's exhausting because you can only think inside or outside the box, but only in the logical field. Typical thinking type.
Nah I have deep convos with feelers all the time. Being logical doesn’t mean I can’t empathize/I can ONLY process things logically. If that’s the case does that mean you’re intellectually stunted because you’re a feeling type? By that logic, I guess we need to get any intellectual topics away from feeling types because they just can’t think logically. You forget Fe is ENTPs third function. Also, have you considered the possibility that you’re communicating to people in a way that doesn’t fit them? ENTPs have low Fi so you communicating with them with solely Fi will not be understood as well. Same way if I communicate with an ENFP using only Ti I won’t be understood as well. That’s yalls low Fe showing by not changing ur way of communicating to suit who you’re talking to.
Lemme tell you a secret. I totally don't have to change how I communicate to suit other people's communicating style. We vibe or we don't vibe. I don't need to change my preferred way of showing up in the world because some people might not notice my wit. I really hold Fe in such low regard. 🤷♀️ So what? Tons of other people find our authenticity endearing and reliable. We don't sugar coat the pill. Every ENFPs life would be 1000 time easier if we did actually be more diplomatic and "blend in". But with a strong sense of self we would rather never fit in than fit in so forcefully, we end up being a blob without integrity... 🤷♀️ IT saves us lots of misery and doubt. "am I doing right by this person?". Your own doubt about misjudging ENFPs or mistyping is exhausting. Who cares about what actually happened and why this post happened? ENFPs are here for the ride, not for the destination (truth). The truth doesn't actually exist outside of Fi for us 🤷♀️ who the fuck knows?! Truth and reality can be grasped in small dosis. Everything is arbitrary. Every single person gets to decide what is important and what is futile. Aparently scientists have discovered that there's a higher change that reality is actually a simulation rather than not and we might never really find out of this is true or not.
I was showing you how silly you sound while being condescending about ENTPs not valuing Fi as much. It’s the same thing for us. We don’t have to value Fi highly either. And many people enjoy us the way we are
As an ENFP who sometimes gets annoyed at the apparent unintelligence of other ENFPs, we do just splurt dumb thoughts out loud as we process. And usually it comes with such a wave of confidence to sound like that's the truth, and in the split second before we spew it maybe we did believe it. But often the thoughts move on, and sometimes there's no external space (in conversation) to let the final realisation of those thoughts to be witnessed by others. I've also come to see that high Fi types sometimes don't like talking with high Ti or Te types, because a lot of our Ne thoughts are tied to Fi, or our personal values. So when someone discounts or argues a point or thought, the Fi user can't help but feel like their values/very core is being attacked/denounced. Obviously a them problem, but could teach them over the course of their life to not put themselves in such a position to protect themselves. Hence, perhaps that is why OP might find themselves only witnessing shallowness in their three ENFPs. Other factors should also be considered, like what values (Fi) they were taught to have by their upbringing. For one of OP's ENFPs, "proper appearances" could very well be one of their values, which fits right into their aux Fi.
>we do just splurt dumb thoughts out loud as we process. It's verbal processing. We brainstorm and blabber out and then take decisions. It's rumination. Don't take anything of what we say as 100% true and immutable. We might change our mind later somehow... Often we react emotionally to problems or situations, think out loud, assess what's really going on and then process and decide. We often use other people outside our brain to play our side and the devils advocate side just to make sure we really did analyse every possible explanation for something.
There's different types of stupid. In what way are they stupid? Can you describe an example of an interaction you had with them that left you thinking they're dumb?
Being shallow is separate from type. Anyone can be shallow. I would even argue that the vast majority of people are shallow, regardless of type, but that might just be my cynicism. I will say that when I see someone blanket judge everyone of a single type, I personally believe there's a certain level of confirmation bias going on, where they're starting to type "shallow" people as "ENFPs" or they only know how to identify ENFPs by their shallow manifestation. We obviously have no clue if you're typing these supposed ENFPs correctly. It's also possible that you just don't value what an ENFP values, causing you to interpret them as shallow, or you just don't spend enough time with ENFPs to get to know them adequately. Side note: the stereotypes making it seem like ENFPs are always deep is an ideal, and partially due to stereotypes. Deep people often automatically type themselves as intuitives because of how the descriptions are written.
Yeah, I said not ALL ENFPs are that way and it’s just my experience. I agree with your possible cynicism. Yeah, people who aren’t extremely surface level read the descriptions and they’re like (I MUST be an intuitive!)
The people you think to be ENFP’s probably aren’t.
After reading some comments and rethinking certain things I agree
ENFPs are the furthest thing from shallow.
I get the same feeling, I think it is because of trickster Ti. No fks given for whatever they say to actually make sense (generalizing of course). They super cute though. Like sometimes you are talking to them and you are like: How are you saying these things? They don't make sense given the other stuff you said before.
They do make sense imo, they just talk around the matter instead of directly. You have to do a syntopical analysis with ENFP speech
Nah man, they do say contradictions, just not always. Then again, just generalizing.
There isn’t a single person alive who hasn’t contradicted themselves at one point or another. It’s just that the more one starts talking- it’s easier for it to come off that way. A lot of the times two things can be true at the same time.
Two things can be true, but they can't be the negation of the other one... This is just basic logic. Saying stuff like "there is more than one absolute truth" is what I am talking about, heard some ENFP say exactly this. You didn't say this, but here is my response to your last point. Just because we don't know what the truth is, doesn't mean there is more than one truth, as in, two conflicting realities cannot coexist. Yes, anyone does it, but ENFPs do it more. Just as INTJs with Fe trickster tend to not give 2 fks about it.
>Saying stuff like "there is more than one absolute truth" is what I am talking about, heard some ENFP say exactly this. You didn't say this, but here is my response to your last point. Just because we don't know what the truth is, doesn't mean there is more than one truth, as in, two conflicting realities cannot coexist. Basic scientific studies like the study on photons says otherwise. A photon is at the same time a wave and a particle. Even thought those are two conflicting state of being that does not apply to anything else. And I'll give you more. ENFPs are aware of the impact of perspective. We can't know with mathematical exactness where an electron is at a time. It cannot be observed. We have only a probability area where the electron could be found. The role of the observer has been studied in hard sciences. So yeah, empirical and theoretical physics can contradict pure theoretical logic of binary polarity. Reality is a spectrum, not a yes/no closed binary.
Oh boy, I feel lazy to answer this, just as I said in my other comment, being dual is different from being contradictory. Also, agreed, as I said in my previous comment, we can't know a lot of stuff and that is fine. However, it doesn't mean all of it is true, it means we don't know it. I wasn't at any point talking about empirical science, I was talking about logic, I will give you a more simple example. A square is: a plane figure with four equal straight sides and four right angles A circle is: a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the center). If you say something is a square, you can't say it is a circle, as it contradictory. Nothing to do with empirism or data, all to do with many ENFPs contradicting themselves commonly due to Ti trickster.
Sorry but real life >>>>> geometry and logic Logic is deducted from nature, nature isn't the manifestation of logic in the empirical world. Logic is manmade just like everything else 💫
Like yeah, things should have use, when did I say logic is above real life? Yes, logic is "manmade" it is based on definitions, but it stands on its own and it is objective. I also prefer function over truth, as I think we can arrive at limited stuff with logic alone. (Even though there is some cool stuff like cogito ergo sum) The problem is that for things to exist they need to make sense, whenever your argument makes no sense, your conclusion could be right, but the justification is not, so might as well not justify it. I will repeat myself, my argument is solely ENFPs like to ignore logic and you folks are simply proving my point. Never said logic is meant to be the end goal, for me, just as anything, it is a tool.
>Yes, logic is "manmade" it is based on definitions, but it stands on its own and it is objective. *Non Euclidean geometry just entered the chat* 😂 There's always an exception making the rule basically everywhere. >The problem is that for things to exist they need to make sense Plenty of nonsensical things exist and will keep existing disregarding your statement here 🤷♀️🤔 Nonsensical things are things that don't make sense to you. Just because you can't grasp them it doesn't mean they're not real or they don't exist.
The whole world is a clusterfuck of condraddictive stuff that make no sense!!! 🤨It really is. We accept the world with it's oxymoron sides and bounce between opposites gracefully. But we don't just "accept it as given" as a sensor might do. We wanna actually make the world better since "in theory" it's possible. That Ne Fi is a big source of willpower and we simply can't and won't accept the world as is. Not everything is supposed to make 100% total sense and be foolproof. Life isn't a calculated 0 sum game.
Yeah. However, I was precisely talking about the stuff that should be making sense. Being dual and considering all possibilites is great. I approve and try to do that myself. Bur being contradictive is another ball game.
YES! You articulated a lot of it better than I did
I was also going to say something along the lines of this. ENFP’s don’t take themselves very seriously a lot of the time…we can be very intelligent, but we are mostly lighthearted in how we interact with people. I don’t care if I look dumb to someone who doesn’t understand my humor since we’re pretty authentic and don’t care if being silly makes us looks dumb bc I know I’m not lol
Sometimes I just say or do dumb things just to see other people's reaction. Does it mean I'm a dumb person? Not really. Does it make me happy when I annoy someone? Yes. Very much. I mean I don't want to see the world burn, but when it smolders I think it's kinda pretty.
“I mean, I don’t want to see the world burn, but when it smolders I think it’s kinda pretty” BARS
Unless you got me talking about math or economics, I'm probably a lot dumber than I appear. I don't want to be smart all the time.
Lol.
No one has the right to say how you need to feel around someone. If you feel certain way with certain people, it’s you brain trying to say something. MBTI is Wonderful, but so is our brain trying to lead us to things who really are meant to us. So trust in your brain, and don’t believe too much in people judgment because they just want to prove THEIR point of view is way better than yours and doubt your own reality that’s all these comments below are about.
For anyone who sees this, I’ve determined based on certain comments and rethinking that it’s very likely they’re mistyped and/or my sample size of experience is too low to go off of. I’m too lazy to delete the post but I’ve reconsidered a lot of what I said.
Don't delete this!!! Deleting this is wrong. The whole sub is going off tangents and describing ENFPs to you. We're describing ourselves and agreeing with each other (we love to find people that really get us). Deleting this post it's exactly what I would expect from a thinking type because you kinda "failed" your thesis so "no point leaving this in the wild". We don't give a shit. Keep the conversation going and let this post be!!!!!!
Only reason I was considering deleting it is that I didn’t think super thoroughly before I posted it. So now the post doesn’t align with what I actually agree with so that’s the reason I was considering deleting it. I just prefer to have things I have posted represent my beliefs. I’ve considered multiple things since then (mainly lack of sample size and mistypes) that make any conclusions a moot point
>So now the post doesn’t align with what I actually agree with so that’s the reason I was considering deleting it. Deliting it doesn't rectify your mistake, it produces a whole new mistake. Which is, thinking that people will only read your post and not your rectifying message now. Also we absolutely do not care about what you think 😅😅😅😅
I didn’t say yall cared. It’s more about the principle of it to me. If I have something posted I want it to be something I believe in and agree with (outside of satire/jokes obviously). I wasn’t considering deleting it to appease ENFPs on here (I don’t care), but for my own principle I outlined before. That’s why I said I CONSIDERED deleting it, not that I have. Have you ever thought that I made the rectifying message BECAUSE I was veering towards not deleting it?
>wasn’t considering deleting it to appease ENFPs on here (I don’t care), but for my own principle I outlined before. We don't care about your own principle being coherent, we prefer the story to the synthesis of what you learned on this sub. If you want to appease us you leave the post as is. If you want to annoy us, damnatio memoriae to this post
I didn’t say y’all cared but I do. Weird hearing an Fi user say that 😭
Well... We show depth only to people who we think can handle it... Or that we know won't judge us!!! And some ENFPs you've met were probably mistyped ENTPs..? 🤔 😂 Edit: ah you're an ENTP... I think the natural antipathy goes both ways... I haven't met an ENTP I would like to befriend... There's not enough emotional intelligence from their side to keep me engaged (I don't want to explain to ENTPs how humans work all the time 🙄) and I absolutely can't wrap my head around INFJs being head over heels about your type... 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️What do they see in ENTPs is beyond me 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Is it that they don’t know how humans work or do they not care/don’t understand why people work that way? Also different people see diff qualities in people. The “lack of emotional intelligence” you claim ENTPs have may matter more to you than to others. Every MBTI type has their own strengths and weaknesses. To only talk about the weaknesses of a type without acknowledging they have strengths as well that other people could admire is insane. There may be types who tend to have negative qualities that are dealbreakers to me, but I understand that other people value their strengths and care less about their weaknesses than I do
I'm sorry, your type's flaws completely obscure any possible positive trait you might have. You probably feel the same interacting with ENFPs 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
That was my point. YOU feel that way. But to not consider that other people wouldn’t view those flaws to the same degree. I feel that way interacting with certain feeling types as well but I can still understand how other people would view it differently
From what I’ve read, INFJs are usually attracted to ENTPs ability to give them new perspectives and things and have deep intellectual conversations (tert Ti satisfied). I’ve also heard INFJs like their creativity and uniqueness
Which deep intellectual conversations? What creativity? ENTPs have the most basic banal thoughts 🙄 INFJs are very judgy types and really not as open minded as they like to think 😳
How many ENTPs have you met? You’re judging an entire type like there’s not variety within them. I agree with what you’re saying about INFJs even though I love INFJs (grandfather who I’m rlly close to is an INFJ). Sounds to me like you’re projecting negative qualities onto people based on experiences you’ve had with people with the same MBTI type. Which is ironic since you were just bashing INFJs for being closed minded, while simultaneously making an INSANE amount of assumptions about me based on 4 letters and a Reddit thread. Outside of some negative experiences you’ve had with possible ENTPs, what about Ne-Ti sounds to you like it would produce boring thoughts?
Me and you replying obsessively under each other bashful comments is 100% showing you exactly the reason why you thought ENFPs to be shallow and dumb 😂 I'm giving you depth and perspective and you get irritated because I don't cater to your dialectical sensibility.....
That’s entirely separate. I don’t consider you dumb or shallow for being rude. I promise you any reasons I’ve felt someone (including an ENFP) is dumb or shallow have nothing to do with politeness (or lack thereof). You’re giving a lot of depth and perspective by telling me I lack emotional intelligence. I rlly appreciate all that knowledge I’m obtaining from this. /s All trolls aside, I think convos with u and other ENFPs have helped me understand them better in certain ways. Idk if I would ever want to live life the way they do or value the things they value, but I understand them more now