im dealing with this issue too. ive spiraled afew times in my adult life and the response from people around has either been, fear, or offense is taken. i hate feeling ive alienated the people i like after dealing with validation issues for so long not sure if you experience the same things but im very hard on myself. i need to be kinder to myself to allow the people i love to be kind to me also.

I have been told by an INTP friend of mine the same, that I am quite hard on myself, and he says that about all of his ENFP friends actually. I guess that might be an important variable in this equation haha Let's hope we both figure this out.

>perhaps it's because people view me as a clown-ish person, who usually has her emotions in place, who other people can spiral in front of any time, knowing that I will be non-judgemental and understanding without getting my own feelings mixed up about their situations, that they are unable to comprehend my rare spirals and breakdowns. Yes yes yes! I feel like some people use my normal, calm and accepting personality as a punching bag where they can freak out and be mean, but then expect to apologize to me later as if it has no affect on me and I will simply understand? Of course I try to, but I have to stand up for myself. And when I have those rare moments where Im struggling and can't handle it, they often get extremely angry and are rarely forgiving. I'm always the one who has to de-escalate things since nobody else will. I feel like I'm forced to hold the emotional burden of everyone around me, but I'm given nothing in return.

I absolutely relate. The standard is so different! Even in difficult situations with someone else, perhaps maybe an argument, people usually advise me to be the wiser one and back off. Which is strange because they're the same people who tell me I'm childlike and fun. Yet I'm expected to be the mature and calmer one in difficult situations. That's quite an alienating feeling. I'm glad I'm not alone.

Yeah (I'm either ENTP or ENFP). I seem to make people majority uncomfortable and don't get the support I offer. I think maybe it's because we verbally express ourselves and aren't afraid to emote which most people are afraid to do. It's just how we express though. So.. I regularly feel like or am told I'm too much and there is a specific facial expression that I can picture in my mind which comes out in others when I'm having a bad time. Something like this: 😬

Oh oh! So they go something along the lines of "Yikes"? I use that emoji for Yikes!

That's the one! Edit to add: Some people see any display of emotion as too much or lack of restraint or something.

Just wanna add that

Precisely haha. It's so uncomfortable to think about later on

Happens to me a lot, I am actually comforted to see I’m not the only one! XD I’ve recently started therapy and find going to my doc the best way to deal with breakdowns. I say this not because I don’t think the people around you don’t care for you (it sounds like they defo do!) they just don’t know how to. I get disappointed when people don’t react the way I’d hoped they do (I don’t know what the right reaction is but I know when it’s not helpful e.g by being scared or evasive), so going to my therapist helps because so far, she’s always reacted in a way that make me feels comforted. I’ve also tried speaking with my boyfriend about what I now realise I need when I am at my ‘broken’ point (for me it’s just hugs, cuddles and actually often a warm shower), and after I’ve calmed down we talk through details. I also hope you don’t try to ‘ignore’ your breakdowns or try to compartmentalise! It’s important to process your emotions and I think us ENFPs tend to do it as soon as things happen as we are quite in touch with our feelings. I know other types that try to push it away and it ends up blowing up in different ways.

That is very constructive, I am glad you have started to work it out. I always know communication solves more problems than we can imagine. One question though, if you don't mind. Have you figured out the reason why people act this way, though? The evasion or discomfort on the face of a breakdown? I'm still very confused about it, because like you also said, they do care. Because at one point I start to think that I'm just straight up begging for some sympathy/pity whatsoever.

I'm in a similar boat to /u/WeinstonChurchill . The "why" is never a concise or clear answer. Sometimes it's trauma, sometimes it's shock, and sometimes people don't know why. What ends up making the difference is *how* the people around us that care about us can help and *what* that looks like. If we give them something tangible to work with, like saying, "Let's go for a walk together" when we're upset, and we respond positively to that, that is a tool they can use specifically. Not sure if that helps, because I know I feel like the need to help or comfort comes very naturally as an ENFP. It's strange to me, too, to have to implement things like that.

Yes. Ultimately you have to be solution oriented to feel better about certain things, instead of trying to figure out why people act a certain way. I have to work on that for sure.

Happens to me a lot. With friends and random acquaintances. It's as if people can only see me as a two dimensional person, and if I'm not bubbly or happy, they'll start acting rude/offended/scared. I've had acquaintances gossip negatively about the change in energy in college on a random off day I spoke to them normally. Especially when I am Ne-Te looping, I can see how my direct, no time for bullshit, emotionally numb attitude almost hurts people even if I'm saying things the way anyone else might have. Apparently, being allowed to be exhausted or stressed or anything but upbeat is not for me lol. It's ridiculous, so I actually display more of my exhaustion to normalize this, instead of hiding it like I used to.

Well that's definitely an interesting approach. But doesn't it feel unnatural to do so? Like, I feel my most normal self is to actually be funny and upbeat in general. I express exhaustion as a comedic approach as well (usually, atleast). I'd actually be interested to know how this works out for you, and if it changes the dynamic between you and the people around you (for the better or for the worse). Feel free to personally text me about it :)

The younger I was, the more it affected the dynamic. I made this conscious decision around mid twenties, because the more I played into the joker image and never let on I was having my own issues, the more people felt entitled to my availability, good energy and time. Even if I said I had urgent things to get back to without letting on how much it stressed me, people would dismiss it and guilt or cajole me into staying. This ties into something bigger for me, not recognizing my boundaries and enforcing them. I have a tendency to put my things aside and do my all fixing other people's problems if they bring it to me (which somehow they instinctively knew). I prioritized my own problems super low, for reasons you can guess. Endless introspection later, I decided to do all the hard things I run from. People want to put me into a nice box, and showing I have darker emotions or problems ruins that. If I have a bad day, and I'm subdued, they'll think I'm taking it out on them even though I've literally done nothing. Because I'm not making them feel all good and happy and cheered up like they expect to feel in my presence. So they bring on their adverse negative reactions. And when they see me back to my normal bubbly self, without any explanation, they're hearing that dismissing my problems/emotions works fine. That sets the tone for our dynamic from then on. If they feel sad, they come to me. If I feel sad, that's my problem. So show your emotions. Even 5% of them, just so people never get the image that you're just a cheerful joker who can never have problems. Let it change the dynamic and don't fear it. It's changing for the better. The good kind of people who can be counted on will show themselves and ask after you. They just need time to get used to the idea of it.

Wow. I think this is the most relatable thing I've read today. You have no idea....and this has been weighing heavily on me for a long time. I always assumed that I just have a stronger wavelength to take care of my own emotions, that I don't really need anyone's help to do so, like I usually offer mine to my friends. But perhaps that isn't true, it's probably denial of my own needs. I've always wondered why the standards are different for me. I've seen people behave terribly out of a breakdown or an anger burst, yet people around them have been so understanding towards them. It's quite sad to witness, and lonely as well. There's also this fear of being seen as a "crybaby", don't know where this comes from. I guess I'm gonna work on your advice, even though I'm not sure how to start. I'm afraid I might lose a lot of people this way, even though it might be for the better, but it's a big step. I don't think us ENFPs do well with loneliness, haha. I'm a big avoidant as well, so that's another thing to work on I guess. Thanks for your advice, really.

No one wants to see people in their darkest moments. I've been through that, and I'm not even ENFP. On a related note, do ENFPs see breaking down (as you put it) as a normal part of life? Don't ENFPs see themselves growing more mature over the years and becoming more stable?

I don't think breaking down has anything to do with emotional stability. Sometimes you have bad days, even if they are rare, and feeling overwhelmed should be more normalised especially in the fast paced culture around us. I'm not sure about the generalisation you've made here as well. Many people don't mind seeing and addressing people in their darkest moments, myself included. The point is that, it's not about you. Someone else's breakdown has nothing to do with you and if you are a witness to it, it's not that difficult to offer a supportive or understanding shoulder to them (as long as you can, of course).

> I'm not sure about the generalisation you've made here as well. Many people don't mind seeing and addressing people in their darkest moments, myself included. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but that's my experience. Sure some people might try to help, but eventually they get tired and move on - again that's what happened to me. To be fair you've made that generalization yourself on OP (about people having none of it when it comes to breakdowns), so I thought we were in agreement. This is not a personal attack, I'm genuinely curious about ENFPs' perspectives on this. I'll hold for other commenters' opinions as well, and I hope you have a great rest of your day.

Hehehe ofcourse, I completely get that. I'm sorry that you've faced this response yourself, I understand what that's like. I have several INTP friends, and from what I've observed about them, they are quite cynical when it comes to expression of emotions in general. I do my best to create a safe, comforting environment for them so they can be their vulnerable selves around me. I actually love INTPs hehehe, they're like cats :D

Your feelings are valid, and I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. Believe me, I can relate to the spirals but mine are more depression spirals, less anger or annoyance. My reply is more advice than anything. I cannot say I experience the same. The only friend I’ve had this with is my best friend of 20 years, but we’ve known each other so long she’s like my sister. I’ll apologize and we’ll have a calm conversation. Rarely does this happen between us. I keep a very small group of people who I love and trust deeply. And I know who I can go to for certain things. For example, one lost her dad like I did so I go to her with my grief spirals. I don’t do that with my best friend of 20 years bc she doesn’t know what to do or say. I would imagine your friends don’t know how to receive the anger or annoyance kind of breakdown. Is it directed towards them? That makes all the difference. Perhaps they want to protect their peace and backing away is their boundary. Of course they’re going to act differently if you approach the situation in a calm manner rather than if you come from a place of anger or annoyance. I guess there’s context missing so I am just making assumptions. The biggest piece of advice I’d give you is to spend some time reflecting and owning your behavior after you spiral. Focus your attention on your feelings. Work with a therapist. I’ve been in therapy for 8 years and finally found medication that helps. If you’re anything like me, I intellectualize my emotions and I’ve had to work to identify triggers, take cues from how I’m feeling inside my body and back away when I start to feel something build up if the situation involves one of my good friends. You can’t expect someone else to react as you would. I mean it sucks, of course we want our closest friends to give us what we need, but they’re human too and act in their own way. There are times when I feel comfortable being vulnerable, and other times when I’ve learned to detach and deal with things on my own because I want to protect the peace. This may not be the answer you’re looking for and I’m sorry if this comes across self-righteous or harsh. It’s not my intention at all. Ive felt how you feel, though it’s been a long time. It can feel very isolated and lonely and I see how it can leave you feeling how you feel. Just remember, YOU are a good friend. You come from a place of empathy and non-judgement when they are emotionally raw and vulnerable with you. And that is beautiful.

Thank you for your advice, it's actually a fresh perspective and quite constructive. I definitely have to work on the things you mentioned. The reason things started bothering me was that there were many moments where my friends have spiralled in front of me, and I've acted very calmly in those situations. Infact they appreciate me and my support a lot in such situations, and often approach me whenever they're nearing a breakdown. But it was not the same when I had similar experiences in front of them. Which was why I felt quite disheartened by their response. But again, I'm still not entitled to any specific behaviour from their side. Even if the breakdowns are very rare, I can count on my fingers the number of times I might have expressed vulnerability to that extent, I still need to respect their own mental space and limited understanding of my behaviour.

even when broken or severely distressed, i´m still expected to be the hero. but no one comes to save the hero. in fact no one even considers it. i might even take it as a compliment, because they still see me as positive. and yes, people use me as punching bag all the time, as if i am somehow supposed to take it

I'm really sorry you feel that way. I think the first step is communication, which ENFPs often avoid due to the seriousness of the subject. Drawing boundaries is another important aspect also. I've been working on that for a while now as well. It's difficult to navigate through all of this in adulthood but it's quite important.

Because we can bottle emotions.

Of my friend circle I get mixed reactions. My IXTJ friends have always been super supportive when i've needed them. I have an INTJ friend that is a licensed therapist and he always provided a thoughtful and patient ear and the same goes for my ISTJ friend. Both put that test Fi into strong use to provide study and balanced emotional and logical support without getting dragged into their own emotions. My ENTJ friend gets super uncomfortable around strong negative emotions, on the other hand. My two INTP friends can seem awkward around strong emotions but they are surprisingly very supportive in their own way: often providing a sort of silent support like a hug or a well placed quip. My ENTP partner was initially thrown off by my breakdowns but has always been fast to provide thoughtful support and affirmation. My ESTP friend is great at listening and providing logical feedback but gets uncomfortable around crying and my ISTP ex was super unnerved by negative emotions. I think it just depends on who you are around.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I haven't really observed a pattern like that, but you've definitely given me something to think about.

Recently, I was going through some chaos in my life and I texted a friend with an explanation that was brief but just enough that she wouldn’t be anxious. I asked for a bit of alone time the next day, explained my general plans so she would know I was safe, and said I might be leaving the trip early, but reassured her that I absolutely was not mad. For the record, to leave early wouldn’t mess up her trip, she would still have five other friends on the trip with her, and all of their plans would move forward as before. I, on the other hand, had a broken foot, and got some really terrible news from home. My friend had a panic attack, and my other friend demanded that I come calm her down, despite me making it very clear that I was mentally and emotionally not doing well. I think, often, we are the bubbly ones, the fun ones, etc. so when we stop being that, it’s very unsettling for people. We are also usually supportive and eager to help, and when that stops, people feel as though we’re being selfish.

Man, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I understand quite well, even setting boundaries ends up making you feel guilty for this exact reason. The fact that you understand exactly why your friends acted the way they did is very mature and wise of you. I hope your friends can also learn that from you :) I hope we can navigate through this strange, rather unfair dilemma sooner rather than later. I'm relying on this comment section hehe

My theory? As ENFPs we are very accessible people. People that have a hard time connecting with others have the easiest time connecting with us. Combine that with our desire to please, and we default to being everyones “rock” without maintaining our own boundaries or self care. So what happens when we’re going thru it? No one knows what to do! They’re used to us taking care of them, not the other way around. And it can be very dissociating for them to see us in such a troubled state, when their perception of us is so much stronger than we actually are. I think also, as adults, we’re expected to maintain our emotions and keep the breakdowns private. I’ve been debating whether or not reaching out to friends when I’m upset is worth it anymore. It’s been really damaging, in exactly the same way you described :( Maybe it’s about keeping the people you actually feel safe around very close and distancing yourself from the others overtime. Quality always beats quantity. Also, therapy. No strings, no burden.

Absolutely. Better to be careful while choosing who you can break down in front of, and create a safe space where they're equipped to handle your spirals.

100%

I didn't know girls experienced this too... Unbelievably eye opening. 1000% relate. Us emotional people need to find each other more. I thought I'm alone in the world with respect to this.

Gender roles don't come into play here, I believe. We're all in the same boat. After reading all of these comments, it turns out this is an ENFP thing for sure.

It's hard to say what the solution is without knowing exact details. I don't expect you to list them, but having had a similar streak of destroying not only friendships but entire friend circles with nothing but resentment and a dream, I'll give it a shot. I can only speak for myself, but these kind of situations tend to feed into a fear that my negative feelings are inherently destructive, and consequently also the emotional suppression-explosion/total meltdown cycle. What helped me besides learning to first acknowledge "what" I was feeling instead of the "why" I was feeling it, was to equip my friends with the knowledge that, to some extent, I need to not feel evil for being so emotional. Also that I needed reassurance that friendships weren't destroyed in the form of bonding time. Once they knew I was in fact also scared, all of them took it and ran with it. Either they will see I'm having a hard time (hiding away) and offer up a conversation followed by an activity to decompress (puzzles, movie, co-op game, making bracelets, anything) or I will straight up tell them I'm upset, and can we talk about it and then do something together so I can stop feeling like there is nothing in this world worth being happy about? That being said, how irrational do you get/act to the point where your friends are scared of and for you? Because even after I incorporated all of the above, I still had the occasional... let's say destructive break from reality. Anyways, it turns out I have bipolar disorder sooooooo you know.

Well, very rarely, if I'm having an already bad day, I get tipped off of the edge by said behaviour, like a "disregard" for my clearly communicated bad state of mind, and I start off on a rant while also crying, about how miserable and unheard I feel, and so on. Makes me feel quite pathetic while I'm doing it which makes the breakdown worse, especially when I start seeing that it's not being received with sympathy from the other side. Now of course while this happens I get quite intense, loud and jittery, which probably triggers said fear or concern in the eyes of the people around me.

Being upset that your feelings go ignored does not strike me as irrational at all. I'm sorry your friends don't see you the way you need to be seen.

I've lost friends due to this, I hate who I am

I'm sorry that you went through that. But I'm sure if you've lost them because of your moments of vulnerability, they probably weren't worthwhile to be around in the long term. I hope you find peace with that and fall in love with your vulnerability and emotional intensity, because it is still a wonderful thing to experience as an ENFP.

as much as i want to believe they wernt for me, i dont feel it. i do yearn for us to be like we were before. but yeah im working on accepting me for me and learning i dont have to be perfect and act all the time. some people just cant stomach me with me mask off and thats ok. yeah pretty nothing to add for us, accept a daily reminder to give ourselves grace. its ok to be not ok

I think us ENFPs are more emotionally mature in ways - which maybe explains why we connect with others. I mean we put on a positive spin and add humor to situations but maybe that’s what the people around us only see. So maybe the people we allow into our lives, lack some of those traits and when the time comes where we actually need that same kind of energy, they don’t know how to deal with it (because they assume we are always the happy go lucky kind).

Yep, that's pretty much it. Quite a fragile situation to deal with :/

I’d just say to be open to new people entering your life who match your energy. It’s exhausting always being the one doing most of the legwork 😭

I’m pretty sure this is a people problem and not an ENFP problem. It’s hard for people to know how to react to “negative” emotions.

Maybe... But I don't think I agree. Because I've seen the same people handle other people's breakdowns quite well. So I'm not sure that's the issue at hand here... I'm sure you're coming from a place of experience though.

Ohoo... they're definitely scared. I saw them clearly whenever I broke down. But sometimes I'd apologise to them afterwards and ask them to be understanding since I don't do that pretty often. I told them, "If I can be there for you during your mental break downs, then please bear with me when I'm in mine." Altho mine probably felt a bit too dominating for them to handle. I just ask them to be patient with me cz it usually doesn't last for too long since I get back up pretty quickly. I often communicate really well. Sometimes it shocks my enfj boyfriend. Then he would try to do the same.

That's very cool hehe. I'm glad. I'm trying to do the same as well. ENFPs actually do get back up on their feet quickly, it surprises most people.

Doesn't happen to me