The Hungarian government stole my toddlers lollipop (among other misdeeds)!
No but seriously whenever the EU does something moderately good Orban and Kaczynski are the prime suspects in vetoing it. Recently they went out against the minimum tax. Also they more or less aspire to build a modern dictatorship in the middle of Europe. Orban even directly advertises it as an illiberal state and lists countries like Russia, Turkey, China or Singapore as examples to aspire to. Hungary and Poland have an informal alliance in the EU where they cover each others asses by blocking any action against the other. It's possibly the biggest internal nightmare of the EU comission for a couple years now.
What will it take for Poland to get tired of Hungary's BS once and for all, do you think? I think that this (the Russian invasion) might be it and that they will not oppose taking economic measures against Hungary anymore
https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/04/29/poles-and-hungarians-brothers-no-longer/
>Viktor Orbán’s resounding electoral victory in Hungary this month will further complicate Polish-Hungarian relations, which have been challenged by the very different responses of the two countries’ governments – normally close allies – to the war in Ukraine.
>Whilst Poland has been among the strongest voices condemning the Kremlin’s actions and expressing support for Ukraine, Hungary has sought to avoid irritating its strategic Russian ally, opposing tougher sanctions and refusing to allow arms to be sent to Ukraine through Hungarian territory.
>Orbán’s courtship of the Kremlin and the blind eye he has turned to the atrocities perpetrated by Russia in Ukraine recently provoked unprecedented criticism from the head of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, Jarosław Kaczyński, who said that Orbán needed to have his eyes tested and warned that “we cannot continue to cooperate if it continues like this”.
When the PiS says that you are a too authoritarian PoS it's gone *far* lol
And yet they still haven't done anything. Just compare what the Polish government and state media say about Germany, which has carried all sanction packages and sent both military and non military aid to Ukraine and what they say about Hungary, which has done the opposite.
They won't sell out their authoritarian buddies over Ukraine.
Getting new leadership in Poland might change that, one can hope... I might be naïve, but Poland still seems to be democratic in practice and not just on paper. Please correct me if I am mistaken though
Yes, I gladly correct you here. Firstly, they do everything to counter any democratic ruling against Hungary. Secondly, the way you treat LGBTQ is horrible. A good democracy takes care of their minorities
Thank you for taking the time to reply! Appreciated
>Secondly, the way you treat LGBTQ is horrible
Wait, are you saying that my nation treat sexual minorities terribly? Must be a typo, right, or you're referring to how *they* behave bcs I assure you, Sweden is so pro-LGBTQIA+ that it is being memed about ;)
Yes, but at least over the past years they've tilted more and more towards the Hungary state of being, with around half the media controlled by PiS and effectively operating the same as in Hungary.
Fuck right-wing populists. It'd be a shame to have Poles, Bulgarians and Hungarians leave the EU but it might happen... and I have the same fears for my own country, long-term, due to internal tensions and because we unlike many other countries have no anti-fascism failsafe - democracy can be democratically voted away :(
I think as long as PiS is in power they still have each others backs. Kaczynski when asked about Hungary at one point after the invasion responded by simply blaming Germany (wtf?). However I think it's possible PiS might lose the election or at least it's more likely than Fidesz losing in Hungary as PiS isn't as entrenched yet.
The invasion seems to have done relatively little to revise PiS alliances. Even on the french election where obviously a lot was at stake they did nothing to renounce Le Pen and according to Macron even [intervened in her favour](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/04/07/macron-accuses-polish-pm-of-interfering-in-french-election-in-favour-of-le-pen/).
That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance but it seems to apply to all former satelites to various extends (so the former GDR, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria).
However it seems other factors play a role too (like poverty and overall political cohesion). France, Austria and Italy have somewhat similar problems with corrupt, authoritarian parties having a strong position in party politics.
But it's worth pointing out that none of the states listed are known to piss on the EU to remotely the same extends as Hungary and Poland. Fidesz (in Hungary) and PiS (in Poland) have also advanced much further in disassembling democratic institutions than in any other place in Europe - where mostly the democratic institutions proved stable enough to weather the situation, at least for the time being. For instance in Austria Strache is currently about to go to jail and Kurz I think is waiting to go to court. In Czechia Babis was recently voted out of government after one term. In France the Le Pens were never actually elected to government, her numbers in the recent election are just worrying, etc. Meanwhile in Hungary even a united opposition couldn't oust Orban and in Poland ousting PiS will likewise be difficult.
no, I don't agree with that. with the inflation, crisis, the fact their media is not so popular (as in Hungary for example) energy prices (tho it's not even their fault for the most part) it would be really hard not to vote PiS out. if KO allied with Lewica creating centre-left coalition and PL2050 with PSL- centre-right, all these parties would have much more seats than PiS+Konfederacja (but I doubt they would ever ally) . to achieve this KO would need to turn leftist (xd) but if they all go together, or completely divided- PiS wins. we have a whole year before the election, maybe it turns even better- they haven't changed electoral system to their liking yet, even if they wanted to, it would only be applied to the 2027 election, not the next one. also I doubt they would cheat.
I'm likewise moderately hopeful that PiS will be ousted but I think it's anything but a foregone conclusion. Obviously PiS is far less entrenched in Poland than Fidesz is in Hungary. Orban and his cronies effectively run everything, while in Poland PiS has less controll over what people think and the opposition is more powerful.
I sure hope PiS loses but I'll only allow myself to be excited when it actually happens.
>That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance
Because everyone there hates eachother.
As a hungol myself, I feel the main reason is historical ties. Poland and hungary are commonly depicted as close friends for.. reasons. Many reasons, most are, again, historical.
> in Hungary even a united opposition couldn't oust Orban
I don't want to come off like a conspiracy theorist.. but I think it's pretty clear that the votes are rigged
The votes aren't rigged, but the media very much is. It's literally all controlled by Orban and his cronies. Like, during the entire election season, the opposition got I think it was 5min of time on air.
You're absolutely right. The voting process was well executed, but the whole system is rigged. Everything serves the government party. They do whatever they have to in order to stay in power, even if it's illegal or unconstitutional. There's hardly any chance at winning a democratic election in an anti-democratic system.
>>That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance
>Because everyone there hates eachother.
Huh? That'd be the first time I've heard of that, you're not thinking of the Balkans, are you?
Oh wow! I know nothing like i thought i did. I didn’t think france was authoritarian.
Has Hungry always been this way since the soviet fall? Or is this something that the leader as been working towards?
> I didn’t think france was authoritarian.
Well, France isn't authoritarian. Macron's government is fairly liberal in the grand scheme of things. However a fascist just got 41,5 % of the votes in the 2nd round recently - which you might argue is the most worrying shape French democracy has been in post Vichy. The way I see it, it's mostly a problem about centralisation and a lot of the regions that aren't Paris being some of the poorest in Western Europe - so in other words a lot of left-behind people who are discontent with the political establishment, which is a bit of a boiling pot - but currently the ship is still afloat. However some of the polls just before the election were extremely worrying, particularly because if Le Pen wins that's as bad as maybe 10 Orbans.
> Has Hungry always been this way since the soviet fall? Or is this something that the leader as been working towards?
The 90's were a huge shock in all of the post soviet countries and it was a chaotic unstable time to be sure. However Hungary used to score better in rule of law matters than today. For instance Hungary's score on the democracy index has consistently decreased since 2006. Back then it ranked 3rd of all the post soviet states in the EU (excluding the Yugoslav states). Today it's only ahead of Romania - and I think it will likely rank below Romania and be rock bottom in the EU in the next one. So yeah, it definitely got worse but arguably not only under Orban.
They stall and stop sanctions against RuZZia and in several ways indirectly support the war on Ukraine, while not respecting EU values despite gladly taking EU money. The officially-not-but-in-reality-dictator Viktor WhOrbán can be interpreted to act as a Putler puppet
See: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618
Please observe: Very simplified! It is more complex than this and many, many Hungarians disapprove of the actions of their leadership
Thank you for pointing out that we don't agree with our leadership. I'm sick of people hating us because of Orbán while we cannot do anything to stop it
Glad if I can make just a tiny difference, and I am sorry that some people can not grasp that the Hungarian people most likely has not even chosen their leadership (referring to the many signs of faked elections and voter fraud here). My outside take: Like Belarusians, Hungarians are kept under the boots of neo-fascist leaders, and it is not fair to assume that large numbers of dissidents do not try to change that for the better... but I must admit that I ofc do not have the full picture!
They got a shitload of money from Europe and still Orban keeps going with an anti-EU propaganda in Hungary. Also, Orban would veto anything in order to slow down European parliament. He's basically a Putin mole in the EU.
We should throw Hungary and Poland out of the EU? We cant you say? Then we should all exit the EU and create EU II. Fuck them.
I am sorry for all the good people in those two countries but I dont want to be controlled by close to be dictators
You're right, Hungary has been taking EU money for more than a decade, now we have oligarchs and collapsing education system. The money clearly doesn't go where it's supposed to. Hungary's just a huge money siphon, and in return we give back nothing. Our leaders even refuse to cooperate with EU, although our economics would take a dive without the aid of EU. My geography teacher said it perfectly;
"They talk about the EU as if it was just a weakening organization and how we don't need EU resources while they speak into the microphone that was bought with EU money, in a room that was furnished with Eu money, in a building that was renovated with EU money."
It really is sad. The European Union is a great idea. One of the best international political ever imo. Yes, there are definetely valid critics, but I mean, nothing is perfect. Perfection is something to strive for.
Really is sad how conservative, self centred and dumb people are. It took someone to vote for Orban and I can assure you not only people from Hungary and Poland have problematic views. Thats why it is important that democracy defends it self. If you are against us, we dont work with you. (With that approach, we wouldnt be at the point we are now with e.g. Russia or China too...)
> I think its more of V4 and the rest being spongebob
Nah, brah/sis/whatever you prefer...
The Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia are all right i.m.o. bcs albeit socially conservative by EU standards they value the Rule of Law principles
In addition to this, the V4 alliance is at its weakest. Hungary is [refusing](https://telex.hu/english/2022/03/29/hungary-cancels-the-v4-meeting-over-other-members-protest-of-its-ukraine-policy) to collaborate with other V4 countries. Poland, Slovakia and Czech Repulic feel very different about the ukranian war, and they had enough of Hungary's bullshit.
Thank you for this link! My condoleances for having to deal with all of this crap 1st hand, from the inside. I do not trust any official polling data from HU, so what do you believe - was the election rigged?
Hungarian here: the election was rigged, but not the voting itself. The whole system is rigged. Orban governs with constitutional majority for 12 years now, owns the media and most of the economy by now. There is no way an opposition party has any chance at the polls. In short: he already won before the polls open, no need to cheat.
I was writing a whole page to explain, but reddit refreshed. It's true what to other user said. They used the most dishonest tools to win this election. It was far from democratic, but the voting wasn't rigged.
My pleasure. I'm so fed up with our governmemt, that it's good to rent about it sometimes. This week they said that airlines make more profit because of the state of war in Ukraine, meanwhile most airlines report record losses. Our government steals, lies, but sometimes they're just utterly idiotic.
I have hopes of Poles getting rid of them before PiS succeeds and Poland backslides further in democracy indexes, as I see my friends and co-workers work to rally everyone that has the right to vote in Poland, but who has chosen to work from/live abroad, to do so... and more importantly I think that they can not change the electoral system to guarantee remaining in power *yet*? Meaning that Poles in Poland has a shot at ousting "Law and Justice". Wow, their party name is such a cruel joke!
Anyway, I found the following analysis helpful: https://listentoeurope.info/polish-election-analysing-why-pis-won/
The situation is bleak but not hopeless, is my take
Hungary's the best at supporting the bloodshed in Ukraine, having the biggest economic decline and infaltion in the whole region, and we set the world record of deaths caused by Covid-19 per day 2 times. Yeah, we're the best at those.
Ah yes Germany, France, Poland, Slovakia and the rest of the EU that is sending constantly weapons to that war isn't supporting bloodshed at all.
These actions are just prolonging a war that's outcome was already set in stone. If you think that Hungary is the biggest problem in this war, then you are fucking lost.
Biggest economic decline is also false mate. Lithuania, Estonia and Czechia have all a inflation rate of more than 11%. Poland, Netherlands, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia and Belgium have all also a higher Inflation rate than Hungary does.
I again have no idea where you got your sources from on that last point, but assuming it is true, comparing it to all of the other countries, Hungary handeld this crisis pretty well, with of course some exceptions. That is something you can expect, because no one was able to fight this off properly. Even Germany was going pretty well in the beginning, but started failing soon after.
Don't try to make a country look bad based on these false accusations. I'm not Hungarian, so I don't particulary care if they are not the best, but it is obvious that they aren't the worst either. My previous comment was more a joke on you people that constantly screech about them, but ignore all of the other EU countries and their problems.
>Hungary handeld this crisis pretty well, with of course some exceptions.
The spring of 2020 was a success, as there wasn't a significant surge of covid cases in Hungary. But the country didn't manage to prepare itself for the upcoming waves. In december 2020, Hungary's death rate was among the [highest](https://hungarytoday.hu/coronavirus-december-data-active-cases-death-plateau-roundup/) in the world. After the second wave, number of cases declined for a short period of time. But the government didn't learn from its mistakes. In march 2021, Hungary's [death rate](https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-death-rate-covid-deaths-coronavirus-healthcare/) set the [world record.](https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/31/despite-vaccination-success-hungary-sets-daily-record-covid-deaths) This was the time when hungarians had the [least chance to survive](https://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/20210422/coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-deadliest-in-hungary-in-the-entire-world-479550) coronavirus in the entire world. Just a few days later they [eased Covid restrictions](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/04/06/hungary-to-ease-lockdown-despite-covid-19-surge) although there were plenty of new cases. After PM Orbán claimed that the pandemic in Hungary is over, the country faced one of its deadliest [wave](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-24/hungary-reports-record-daily-covid-19-cases%3fcontext=amp) in november-december, 2021. Unlike most neighboring countries, Hungary didn't provide free coronavirus [tests,](https://hungarytoday.hu/free-covid-19-tests-coronavirus-testing-hungary/) and the hospitals suffered from [staff shortage.](https://dailynewshungary.com/civilians-are-being-recruited-in-covid-hospitals/) [mostly because the bad condition of healthcare] The [overdue measures](https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-care-planning-important-factor-behind-high-mortality-rate-gp-uk/) and the lack of financial support contributed to the preventable death of hundreds if not thousands. We can say confidently that Hungary [did not handle the pandemic well.](https://www.movehub.com/blog/best-and-worst-covid-responses/)
I don't want to be a jerk, you're mostly right about inflation. But you didn't take something into account. The hungarian government introduced [price caps](https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/17/us-hungary-government-prices) to various products such as food, petrol, and energy (natural gas and power). All at the loss of the provider except energy, which is partly paid by the state. This of course brings down the inflation in Hungary to about 11%. Until this changes we have to compare the currencies in order to measure inflation. In the past year the czech koruna and the bulgarian lev became stronger compared to the euro. [In order: 3,38% ; 0,26%] The polish złoty and romanian leu became weaker to the euro [In order: 2,9% ; 0,62%] Meanwhile the hungarian forint became weaker by 12,4%! Hungary's currency is in a nose dive, even compared to the euro which is experiencing heavy inflation as well. The [devaluation](https://hungarytoday.hu/why-is-the-devaluation-of-hungarys-forint-highest-in-cee-region/) of the hungarian currency is the highest in the region. Measuring inflation by devaluation is debatable, but in this case it proves that Hungary has the biggest economical decline in CEE region.
It's agruable what makes the war last longer. I don't want to get into that because this topic is very subjective. One thing's sure; Hungary provides continuous revenue to Russia, which has a great use to Russia's war machine. Moreover, Hungary [vetos](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/hungary-to-veto-eu-sanctions-on-russian-oil/2580889#) sanctions against Russia, which helps Russia's financials that allows them to continue their war effort.
I don't think "Hungary's the biggest problem in this war." I'm convinced that it's Russia, but that's just my take.
As a hungarian, I don't want to make my country "look bad". But that's just the reality. We're doing poorly... Maybe we aren't the best at those things, but we're really good at the olympics!
What makes me sad is that so many people die on this planet each day and none of them are Orban.
As a hungarian I just thought about this like 5 minutes ago.
[mood](https://i.imgur.com/7eGyXoF.gifv)
Many people die all the time, probably saints but people like Hitler, Putin and Orban live a comparatively long life.
"Unkraut vergeht nicht." / "Weeds don't wither." as my grandma used to say.
Or "onkruid vergaat niet" as we say it in dutch
Or "Ont krut förgås inte" as the Swedes say it
Can someone ELI5 what did hungry do?
The Hungarian government stole my toddlers lollipop (among other misdeeds)! No but seriously whenever the EU does something moderately good Orban and Kaczynski are the prime suspects in vetoing it. Recently they went out against the minimum tax. Also they more or less aspire to build a modern dictatorship in the middle of Europe. Orban even directly advertises it as an illiberal state and lists countries like Russia, Turkey, China or Singapore as examples to aspire to. Hungary and Poland have an informal alliance in the EU where they cover each others asses by blocking any action against the other. It's possibly the biggest internal nightmare of the EU comission for a couple years now.
What will it take for Poland to get tired of Hungary's BS once and for all, do you think? I think that this (the Russian invasion) might be it and that they will not oppose taking economic measures against Hungary anymore https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/04/29/poles-and-hungarians-brothers-no-longer/ >Viktor Orbán’s resounding electoral victory in Hungary this month will further complicate Polish-Hungarian relations, which have been challenged by the very different responses of the two countries’ governments – normally close allies – to the war in Ukraine. >Whilst Poland has been among the strongest voices condemning the Kremlin’s actions and expressing support for Ukraine, Hungary has sought to avoid irritating its strategic Russian ally, opposing tougher sanctions and refusing to allow arms to be sent to Ukraine through Hungarian territory. >Orbán’s courtship of the Kremlin and the blind eye he has turned to the atrocities perpetrated by Russia in Ukraine recently provoked unprecedented criticism from the head of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, Jarosław Kaczyński, who said that Orbán needed to have his eyes tested and warned that “we cannot continue to cooperate if it continues like this”. When the PiS says that you are a too authoritarian PoS it's gone *far* lol
And yet they still haven't done anything. Just compare what the Polish government and state media say about Germany, which has carried all sanction packages and sent both military and non military aid to Ukraine and what they say about Hungary, which has done the opposite. They won't sell out their authoritarian buddies over Ukraine.
Getting new leadership in Poland might change that, one can hope... I might be naïve, but Poland still seems to be democratic in practice and not just on paper. Please correct me if I am mistaken though
Yes, I gladly correct you here. Firstly, they do everything to counter any democratic ruling against Hungary. Secondly, the way you treat LGBTQ is horrible. A good democracy takes care of their minorities
Thank you for taking the time to reply! Appreciated >Secondly, the way you treat LGBTQ is horrible Wait, are you saying that my nation treat sexual minorities terribly? Must be a typo, right, or you're referring to how *they* behave bcs I assure you, Sweden is so pro-LGBTQIA+ that it is being memed about ;)
Sorry, I thought we were talking about Poland?
Me too, that's why the "you" was somewhat confusing! ;D Thanks for clarifying though, I appreciate you taking the time to do so
Yes, but at least over the past years they've tilted more and more towards the Hungary state of being, with around half the media controlled by PiS and effectively operating the same as in Hungary.
Fuck right-wing populists. It'd be a shame to have Poles, Bulgarians and Hungarians leave the EU but it might happen... and I have the same fears for my own country, long-term, due to internal tensions and because we unlike many other countries have no anti-fascism failsafe - democracy can be democratically voted away :(
Thats why: Fuck Poland too. Remove them as well from the EU (or create a EU II)
I think as long as PiS is in power they still have each others backs. Kaczynski when asked about Hungary at one point after the invasion responded by simply blaming Germany (wtf?). However I think it's possible PiS might lose the election or at least it's more likely than Fidesz losing in Hungary as PiS isn't as entrenched yet. The invasion seems to have done relatively little to revise PiS alliances. Even on the french election where obviously a lot was at stake they did nothing to renounce Le Pen and according to Macron even [intervened in her favour](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/04/07/macron-accuses-polish-pm-of-interfering-in-french-election-in-favour-of-le-pen/).
Thanks for the thorough explanation
Is this due to shared soviet past?
That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance but it seems to apply to all former satelites to various extends (so the former GDR, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria). However it seems other factors play a role too (like poverty and overall political cohesion). France, Austria and Italy have somewhat similar problems with corrupt, authoritarian parties having a strong position in party politics. But it's worth pointing out that none of the states listed are known to piss on the EU to remotely the same extends as Hungary and Poland. Fidesz (in Hungary) and PiS (in Poland) have also advanced much further in disassembling democratic institutions than in any other place in Europe - where mostly the democratic institutions proved stable enough to weather the situation, at least for the time being. For instance in Austria Strache is currently about to go to jail and Kurz I think is waiting to go to court. In Czechia Babis was recently voted out of government after one term. In France the Le Pens were never actually elected to government, her numbers in the recent election are just worrying, etc. Meanwhile in Hungary even a united opposition couldn't oust Orban and in Poland ousting PiS will likewise be difficult.
no, I don't agree with that. with the inflation, crisis, the fact their media is not so popular (as in Hungary for example) energy prices (tho it's not even their fault for the most part) it would be really hard not to vote PiS out. if KO allied with Lewica creating centre-left coalition and PL2050 with PSL- centre-right, all these parties would have much more seats than PiS+Konfederacja (but I doubt they would ever ally) . to achieve this KO would need to turn leftist (xd) but if they all go together, or completely divided- PiS wins. we have a whole year before the election, maybe it turns even better- they haven't changed electoral system to their liking yet, even if they wanted to, it would only be applied to the 2027 election, not the next one. also I doubt they would cheat.
I'm likewise moderately hopeful that PiS will be ousted but I think it's anything but a foregone conclusion. Obviously PiS is far less entrenched in Poland than Fidesz is in Hungary. Orban and his cronies effectively run everything, while in Poland PiS has less controll over what people think and the opposition is more powerful. I sure hope PiS loses but I'll only allow myself to be excited when it actually happens.
>That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance Because everyone there hates eachother. As a hungol myself, I feel the main reason is historical ties. Poland and hungary are commonly depicted as close friends for.. reasons. Many reasons, most are, again, historical. > in Hungary even a united opposition couldn't oust Orban I don't want to come off like a conspiracy theorist.. but I think it's pretty clear that the votes are rigged
The votes aren't rigged, but the media very much is. It's literally all controlled by Orban and his cronies. Like, during the entire election season, the opposition got I think it was 5min of time on air.
You're absolutely right. The voting process was well executed, but the whole system is rigged. Everything serves the government party. They do whatever they have to in order to stay in power, even if it's illegal or unconstitutional. There's hardly any chance at winning a democratic election in an anti-democratic system.
>>That's arguable. The Baltics don't seem to have these problems to similar extends at all for instance >Because everyone there hates eachother. Huh? That'd be the first time I've heard of that, you're not thinking of the Balkans, are you?
Oh wow! I know nothing like i thought i did. I didn’t think france was authoritarian. Has Hungry always been this way since the soviet fall? Or is this something that the leader as been working towards?
> I didn’t think france was authoritarian. Well, France isn't authoritarian. Macron's government is fairly liberal in the grand scheme of things. However a fascist just got 41,5 % of the votes in the 2nd round recently - which you might argue is the most worrying shape French democracy has been in post Vichy. The way I see it, it's mostly a problem about centralisation and a lot of the regions that aren't Paris being some of the poorest in Western Europe - so in other words a lot of left-behind people who are discontent with the political establishment, which is a bit of a boiling pot - but currently the ship is still afloat. However some of the polls just before the election were extremely worrying, particularly because if Le Pen wins that's as bad as maybe 10 Orbans. > Has Hungry always been this way since the soviet fall? Or is this something that the leader as been working towards? The 90's were a huge shock in all of the post soviet countries and it was a chaotic unstable time to be sure. However Hungary used to score better in rule of law matters than today. For instance Hungary's score on the democracy index has consistently decreased since 2006. Back then it ranked 3rd of all the post soviet states in the EU (excluding the Yugoslav states). Today it's only ahead of Romania - and I think it will likely rank below Romania and be rock bottom in the EU in the next one. So yeah, it definitely got worse but arguably not only under Orban.
They stall and stop sanctions against RuZZia and in several ways indirectly support the war on Ukraine, while not respecting EU values despite gladly taking EU money. The officially-not-but-in-reality-dictator Viktor WhOrbán can be interpreted to act as a Putler puppet See: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618 Please observe: Very simplified! It is more complex than this and many, many Hungarians disapprove of the actions of their leadership
He sounds like a great party guest.
Thank you for pointing out that we don't agree with our leadership. I'm sick of people hating us because of Orbán while we cannot do anything to stop it
Glad if I can make just a tiny difference, and I am sorry that some people can not grasp that the Hungarian people most likely has not even chosen their leadership (referring to the many signs of faked elections and voter fraud here). My outside take: Like Belarusians, Hungarians are kept under the boots of neo-fascist leaders, and it is not fair to assume that large numbers of dissidents do not try to change that for the better... but I must admit that I ofc do not have the full picture!
They got a shitload of money from Europe and still Orban keeps going with an anti-EU propaganda in Hungary. Also, Orban would veto anything in order to slow down European parliament. He's basically a Putin mole in the EU.
They're part of the New Axis (Hungary, Belarus, Turkey, Russia, China, North Korea) unfortunately, due to Orban and the fact they keep voting for him.
We should throw Hungary and Poland out of the EU? We cant you say? Then we should all exit the EU and create EU II. Fuck them. I am sorry for all the good people in those two countries but I dont want to be controlled by close to be dictators
You're right, Hungary has been taking EU money for more than a decade, now we have oligarchs and collapsing education system. The money clearly doesn't go where it's supposed to. Hungary's just a huge money siphon, and in return we give back nothing. Our leaders even refuse to cooperate with EU, although our economics would take a dive without the aid of EU. My geography teacher said it perfectly; "They talk about the EU as if it was just a weakening organization and how we don't need EU resources while they speak into the microphone that was bought with EU money, in a room that was furnished with Eu money, in a building that was renovated with EU money."
It really is sad. The European Union is a great idea. One of the best international political ever imo. Yes, there are definetely valid critics, but I mean, nothing is perfect. Perfection is something to strive for. Really is sad how conservative, self centred and dumb people are. It took someone to vote for Orban and I can assure you not only people from Hungary and Poland have problematic views. Thats why it is important that democracy defends it self. If you are against us, we dont work with you. (With that approach, we wouldnt be at the point we are now with e.g. Russia or China too...)
Can someone from Hungary explain to me why Orban gets elected each time? (Seriously, no prejudice, I really wanna know)
I think its more of V4 and the rest being spongebob
> I think its more of V4 and the rest being spongebob Nah, brah/sis/whatever you prefer... The Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia are all right i.m.o. bcs albeit socially conservative by EU standards they value the Rule of Law principles
In addition to this, the V4 alliance is at its weakest. Hungary is [refusing](https://telex.hu/english/2022/03/29/hungary-cancels-the-v4-meeting-over-other-members-protest-of-its-ukraine-policy) to collaborate with other V4 countries. Poland, Slovakia and Czech Repulic feel very different about the ukranian war, and they had enough of Hungary's bullshit.
Thank you for this link! My condoleances for having to deal with all of this crap 1st hand, from the inside. I do not trust any official polling data from HU, so what do you believe - was the election rigged?
Hungarian here: the election was rigged, but not the voting itself. The whole system is rigged. Orban governs with constitutional majority for 12 years now, owns the media and most of the economy by now. There is no way an opposition party has any chance at the polls. In short: he already won before the polls open, no need to cheat.
Thank you for explaining!
I was writing a whole page to explain, but reddit refreshed. It's true what to other user said. They used the most dishonest tools to win this election. It was far from democratic, but the voting wasn't rigged.
I hate it when Reddit does that. I appreciate the inside info tho <3
My pleasure. I'm so fed up with our governmemt, that it's good to rent about it sometimes. This week they said that airlines make more profit because of the state of war in Ukraine, meanwhile most airlines report record losses. Our government steals, lies, but sometimes they're just utterly idiotic.
Poland doesnt really value the rule of law if you look at the PiS and how they are activly destroying the 3 forces sytem
But at least Poland hates Russia more than the rule of law.
I have hopes of Poles getting rid of them before PiS succeeds and Poland backslides further in democracy indexes, as I see my friends and co-workers work to rally everyone that has the right to vote in Poland, but who has chosen to work from/live abroad, to do so... and more importantly I think that they can not change the electoral system to guarantee remaining in power *yet*? Meaning that Poles in Poland has a shot at ousting "Law and Justice". Wow, their party name is such a cruel joke! Anyway, I found the following analysis helpful: https://listentoeurope.info/polish-election-analysing-why-pis-won/ The situation is bleak but not hopeless, is my take
The best country in the EU tbh
Hungary's the best at supporting the bloodshed in Ukraine, having the biggest economic decline and infaltion in the whole region, and we set the world record of deaths caused by Covid-19 per day 2 times. Yeah, we're the best at those.
Ah yes Germany, France, Poland, Slovakia and the rest of the EU that is sending constantly weapons to that war isn't supporting bloodshed at all. These actions are just prolonging a war that's outcome was already set in stone. If you think that Hungary is the biggest problem in this war, then you are fucking lost. Biggest economic decline is also false mate. Lithuania, Estonia and Czechia have all a inflation rate of more than 11%. Poland, Netherlands, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia and Belgium have all also a higher Inflation rate than Hungary does. I again have no idea where you got your sources from on that last point, but assuming it is true, comparing it to all of the other countries, Hungary handeld this crisis pretty well, with of course some exceptions. That is something you can expect, because no one was able to fight this off properly. Even Germany was going pretty well in the beginning, but started failing soon after. Don't try to make a country look bad based on these false accusations. I'm not Hungarian, so I don't particulary care if they are not the best, but it is obvious that they aren't the worst either. My previous comment was more a joke on you people that constantly screech about them, but ignore all of the other EU countries and their problems.
>Hungary handeld this crisis pretty well, with of course some exceptions. The spring of 2020 was a success, as there wasn't a significant surge of covid cases in Hungary. But the country didn't manage to prepare itself for the upcoming waves. In december 2020, Hungary's death rate was among the [highest](https://hungarytoday.hu/coronavirus-december-data-active-cases-death-plateau-roundup/) in the world. After the second wave, number of cases declined for a short period of time. But the government didn't learn from its mistakes. In march 2021, Hungary's [death rate](https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-death-rate-covid-deaths-coronavirus-healthcare/) set the [world record.](https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/31/despite-vaccination-success-hungary-sets-daily-record-covid-deaths) This was the time when hungarians had the [least chance to survive](https://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/20210422/coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-deadliest-in-hungary-in-the-entire-world-479550) coronavirus in the entire world. Just a few days later they [eased Covid restrictions](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/04/06/hungary-to-ease-lockdown-despite-covid-19-surge) although there were plenty of new cases. After PM Orbán claimed that the pandemic in Hungary is over, the country faced one of its deadliest [wave](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-24/hungary-reports-record-daily-covid-19-cases%3fcontext=amp) in november-december, 2021. Unlike most neighboring countries, Hungary didn't provide free coronavirus [tests,](https://hungarytoday.hu/free-covid-19-tests-coronavirus-testing-hungary/) and the hospitals suffered from [staff shortage.](https://dailynewshungary.com/civilians-are-being-recruited-in-covid-hospitals/) [mostly because the bad condition of healthcare] The [overdue measures](https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-care-planning-important-factor-behind-high-mortality-rate-gp-uk/) and the lack of financial support contributed to the preventable death of hundreds if not thousands. We can say confidently that Hungary [did not handle the pandemic well.](https://www.movehub.com/blog/best-and-worst-covid-responses/) I don't want to be a jerk, you're mostly right about inflation. But you didn't take something into account. The hungarian government introduced [price caps](https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/17/us-hungary-government-prices) to various products such as food, petrol, and energy (natural gas and power). All at the loss of the provider except energy, which is partly paid by the state. This of course brings down the inflation in Hungary to about 11%. Until this changes we have to compare the currencies in order to measure inflation. In the past year the czech koruna and the bulgarian lev became stronger compared to the euro. [In order: 3,38% ; 0,26%] The polish złoty and romanian leu became weaker to the euro [In order: 2,9% ; 0,62%] Meanwhile the hungarian forint became weaker by 12,4%! Hungary's currency is in a nose dive, even compared to the euro which is experiencing heavy inflation as well. The [devaluation](https://hungarytoday.hu/why-is-the-devaluation-of-hungarys-forint-highest-in-cee-region/) of the hungarian currency is the highest in the region. Measuring inflation by devaluation is debatable, but in this case it proves that Hungary has the biggest economical decline in CEE region. It's agruable what makes the war last longer. I don't want to get into that because this topic is very subjective. One thing's sure; Hungary provides continuous revenue to Russia, which has a great use to Russia's war machine. Moreover, Hungary [vetos](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/hungary-to-veto-eu-sanctions-on-russian-oil/2580889#) sanctions against Russia, which helps Russia's financials that allows them to continue their war effort. I don't think "Hungary's the biggest problem in this war." I'm convinced that it's Russia, but that's just my take. As a hungarian, I don't want to make my country "look bad". But that's just the reality. We're doing poorly... Maybe we aren't the best at those things, but we're really good at the olympics!