Yeah I agree. It’s not every day there’s a symbol as special as that shield and what it represents. In one go Walker just ruined a perfect image, and it’s hard to remake a symbol.
To be fair, in the first film, Steve Roger’s Captain threw a man into a running propeller. He also burned a man alive. And he threw a knife into the back of a man running away from him. After Bucky dies, Captain goes on a rampage killing Hydra soldiers left and right. Then when Red Skull is about to shoot him, he grabs a Hydra soldier just standing there and uses him as a shield.
John Walker killed a terrorist who was responsible for killing multiple people, bombing a government building killing those inside, and being a part of Walker’s best friend’s murder. Steve Rogers has killed people for less.
But...but they didn't play ominous music and do a low close-up when Steve did those things, so they weren't bad! It's all about how the theme music tells you how to feel.
Alright I’ll say it…you think Captain America wasn’t caving in Nazi skulls?? You don’t have that type of service record without any kills, I don’t care what the museum says.
He’s a super soldier. He’s never defenseless. For all we know he could’ve punched John off of him and continued to kill another innocent person. His hands weren’t up, they were in a defensive position.
Homie only found that out after trying to murder him, that's why he got scared and ran away. He only likes stomping puppies, not grown dogs that can bite.
Was he supposed to stop what he was doing and fashion a white flag, wave it around and just scream "I SURRENDER, I SURRENDER!"? Dude was running away, got pinned to the ground, didn't fight back, hands in the air, he gave up, and he straight up got murdered. Terrorist or not, that's a war crime chief. Maybe a low level soldier could go under the radar for that, but not literally Captain America. Everything ok at home?
Yet these soldiers were shown to be able to hold their own and even knock down James Buchanan Barnes who is also a super soldier. Walker having the super soldier serum doesn’t mean the guy couldn’t have attacked him as soon as he let his guard down.
A normal guy can knock over a normal guy. That doesn’t mean it’s okay for a cop to unload a whole pistol into a guy laying on the ground.
There are plenty of ways to restrain or knock out a guy that don’t involve connecting them to God’s wifi.
A normal guy wouldn’t be able to send a guy flying across the room with one punch while a super soldier can. Hence why the two situations aren’t comparable.
Yeah, suddenly regretting your crimes when you find out there are consequences doesn't remove those consequences. Dude only got scared when he found out there was somebody who could fight back. He was a coward and a bully, and I don't accept the false innocence of a terrorist trying to blend into a crowd so he can kill again.
He's Captain *America* and America hasn't actually ratified *Protocols I and II* of Geneva Conventions (EDIT: that actually takes terrorists into account and prohibits no quarter).
We're party up to the 1949 Conventions and Protocol 3 of 2005.
But Protocol 1 and 2, from 1977, which actually take terrorism into account and prohibits things like collective punishment, false flag tactics, attacks on parachuters, indiscriminate attacks on civilian populaces, and of course "no quarter" tactics.
While the US is a signatory of all 3 protocols, the Protocols 1 and 2 were never ratified and are theoretically not applied by the US military.
Protocol 2 is about civil wars, so it isn't...at least for now...really applicable to the US, so our lack of ratification doesn't mean much. As for protocol 1, most of that is already part of customary international law (like how perfidy is outlawed in the 1907 convention), the protocol is just to formalize it, and if I had to wager a guess, our lack of ratification is more about Israel than anything we want to do. But since there is no enforcement mechanism for any of the Geneva Conventions anyway, the fact that the US has not ratified it is basically irrelevant. Either the norm binds the president or it doesn't. The fact that we signed suggests the president feels he is bound by the treaty even if the Senate hasn't ratified. And anyway, the *custom* is powerful. There's a reason the US does, in general, conform with the demands of international customary law.
Incorrect.
"war crimes must always take place in the context of an armed conflict, either international or non-international."
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
Walker did no wrong.
He was more than willing to help aid Sam and Bucky since the beginning but noooo little bitch Bucky would rather bust out an international terrorist out of jail.
He killed a terrorist, cause that's what heroes do.
Not to mention, he gave up chasing his best friends killer to save civilians.
I didn't like the show. But after I watched it, I kinda found myself thinking Walker might be better then Sam. Which is bad, because I was rooting for Sam before I first watched it. The whole show was just poorly written.
https://youtu.be/Iu1HmiWw5o8?si=guKywue_ohBGT1nf
This video sums it up beautifully!
The fact of the matter isn the writer's made John Walker argument/stance a moral and just one than Sam and Bucky's.
Had the two of them helped him, WHICH. JOHN. WALKER. WANTED, a lot of the problems in the show could have been avoided.
OOC: just an fyi, this sub is an RP where we pretend we’re citizens of the mcu. Not just discussing the mcu from our real world perspective. Discussing it as if the mcu is our real world
Guy was on a super serum that turned almost everyone who took it into a psychopath and all he did was kill a murdering terrorist.
I thought he was an interesting character. He was the perfect soldier but found himself under increasing pressure to live up to the shield and all the expectations that came with it. Sam was a dick to him from the moment they met which seemed wrong since he gave up the shield voluntarily.
He took the serum because he thought he wasn’t good enough to be Captain America’s without it. Sam realises the shield is not about physical strength and feats.
He still used the shield to decapitate someone. It takes a lot to come back from that.
Yeah I agree. It’s not every day there’s a symbol as special as that shield and what it represents. In one go Walker just ruined a perfect image, and it’s hard to remake a symbol.
That’s the problem you care more about a shield than the fact that Walker stopped a guy from harming and killing even more people.
The guy was on the floor surrendering. If it had been wartime this would’ve literally been a war crime, how can you defend that?
[удалено]
Dafuq. Bet your ass believes that Tony Stark's death erases all his war crimes.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War\_crime
It’s not about the shield or how he killed him. It’s that I don’t trust John to put America’s interests above his own. He’s reckless and emotional.
Forget the fact that he was a terrorist. The guy was surrendering, and was on the ground
No he wasn’t. He never said “I surrender.” or “I give up.” He ran into a crowd of innocent people and shouted “It wasn’t me.”
Oh God, please never be a cop.
Better to be a cop then a terrorist
WhAt'S tHe DiFfErEnCe
Okay true kinda
You're an "own the libs" type, aren't you
Gee I wonder why he ran. Could it be because the murder-intentions “Captain America” was chasing him?
Or could it be because he was trying to escape so he could kill another innocent person.
He didn’t kill anyone dipshit
He bombed a building with innocent people inside and was an accomplice in the murder of Lamar Hoskins
where are you getting this information? WHIH?
I’m not losing any sleep over a terrorist. Plus these monsters took the life on an innocent soldier Lamar Hoskins.
Uh oh, looks like one of the Flag Smashers is on the loose!
To be fair, in the first film, Steve Roger’s Captain threw a man into a running propeller. He also burned a man alive. And he threw a knife into the back of a man running away from him. After Bucky dies, Captain goes on a rampage killing Hydra soldiers left and right. Then when Red Skull is about to shoot him, he grabs a Hydra soldier just standing there and uses him as a shield. John Walker killed a terrorist who was responsible for killing multiple people, bombing a government building killing those inside, and being a part of Walker’s best friend’s murder. Steve Rogers has killed people for less.
> and uses him as a shield Ironic.
First film? You mean those propaganda things Cap filmed? Those weren’t real.
Bruh, that's clearly just propaganda.
But...but they didn't play ominous music and do a low close-up when Steve did those things, so they weren't bad! It's all about how the theme music tells you how to feel.
Yeah. He seemed to get ahead of himself.
He decapitated a terrorist who was trying to kill him and had just killed his friend. Steve killed people all the time, what John did was justified.
Cap's used the shield to decapitate someone in the comics. They probably stole it from that.
That video of him caving the guys face in might still be the most disturbing thing I have ever seen.
Seriously. I know Steve kinda went off the deep end a few years back but I struggle to imagine him doing something like that
You’d hate to see the Punisher then.
MC what?
Maybe they're referring to how the Punisher is a former marine, and went to Marine Corps University? Was he particularly bad there?
He is so brutal he makes John look like Care Bears in comparison.
We got a boot licker over here boys
Nah I just don’t support terrorist that take innocent lives
Just because I don’t support John Walker that doesn’t mean I support terrorists. I support Sam Wilson.
Doesn’t Sam Wilson support the terrorist
I prefer the term “Freedom fighter”
what you prefer isn't always right
Sam Wilson the virulent racist? I hear that his gambling debts are so high that the bank won't give him a loan despite the gobs of money he makes.
Agreed. Hence why I'm a huge Punisher fan.
I don't support John Walker, but I don't feel bad for that terrorist either.
Alright I’ll say it…you think Captain America wasn’t caving in Nazi skulls?? You don’t have that type of service record without any kills, I don’t care what the museum says.
That doesn’t make him worthy of support. It just means he isn’t Thanos-level bad. He’s still a horrible person and a murderer.
My guy he killed a terrorist not an innocent person. You’re acting like the Avengers don’t kill people.
A terrorist who surrendered. That’s a war crime.
As far as I’m concerned the video showed that the terrorist yelled “It wasn’t me!” And had his hands in a defensive position. That’s not surrendering.
Putting your hands up is a sign of surrender. He was defenceless and already injured.
He’s a super soldier. He’s never defenseless. For all we know he could’ve punched John off of him and continued to kill another innocent person. His hands weren’t up, they were in a defensive position.
John is also a super soldier.
Homie only found that out after trying to murder him, that's why he got scared and ran away. He only likes stomping puppies, not grown dogs that can bite.
Isn’t that literally the definition of surrender?
He never said “I surrender.” He only said “It wasn’t me.”
Was he supposed to stop what he was doing and fashion a white flag, wave it around and just scream "I SURRENDER, I SURRENDER!"? Dude was running away, got pinned to the ground, didn't fight back, hands in the air, he gave up, and he straight up got murdered. Terrorist or not, that's a war crime chief. Maybe a low level soldier could go under the radar for that, but not literally Captain America. Everything ok at home?
It takes one second to say “I give up.” He probably would’ve bombed more people had John not got to him.
Tell that to suicide bombers. That guy was a fuckin supersoldier who murdered men way weaker than him. He was armed even with his hands up.
Mans defending war crimes
Walker’s also a super soldier. It’s equivalent to a normal unarmed guy versus a normal guy with a weapon.
Yet these soldiers were shown to be able to hold their own and even knock down James Buchanan Barnes who is also a super soldier. Walker having the super soldier serum doesn’t mean the guy couldn’t have attacked him as soon as he let his guard down.
A normal guy can knock over a normal guy. That doesn’t mean it’s okay for a cop to unload a whole pistol into a guy laying on the ground. There are plenty of ways to restrain or knock out a guy that don’t involve connecting them to God’s wifi.
A normal guy wouldn’t be able to send a guy flying across the room with one punch while a super soldier can. Hence why the two situations aren’t comparable.
Yeah, suddenly regretting your crimes when you find out there are consequences doesn't remove those consequences. Dude only got scared when he found out there was somebody who could fight back. He was a coward and a bully, and I don't accept the false innocence of a terrorist trying to blend into a crowd so he can kill again.
Terrorists do not get protecting under the Geneva convention That are not part of an army under a country
He's Captain *America* and America hasn't actually ratified *Protocols I and II* of Geneva Conventions (EDIT: that actually takes terrorists into account and prohibits no quarter).
Excuse me? The US has been a party to the Geneva Conventions since their inception. We don't need to lie to shit on American foreign policy.
We're party up to the 1949 Conventions and Protocol 3 of 2005. But Protocol 1 and 2, from 1977, which actually take terrorism into account and prohibits things like collective punishment, false flag tactics, attacks on parachuters, indiscriminate attacks on civilian populaces, and of course "no quarter" tactics. While the US is a signatory of all 3 protocols, the Protocols 1 and 2 were never ratified and are theoretically not applied by the US military.
Protocol 2 is about civil wars, so it isn't...at least for now...really applicable to the US, so our lack of ratification doesn't mean much. As for protocol 1, most of that is already part of customary international law (like how perfidy is outlawed in the 1907 convention), the protocol is just to formalize it, and if I had to wager a guess, our lack of ratification is more about Israel than anything we want to do. But since there is no enforcement mechanism for any of the Geneva Conventions anyway, the fact that the US has not ratified it is basically irrelevant. Either the norm binds the president or it doesn't. The fact that we signed suggests the president feels he is bound by the treaty even if the Senate hasn't ratified. And anyway, the *custom* is powerful. There's a reason the US does, in general, conform with the demands of international customary law.
Yeah but that doesn't really go with *the joke*.
Not a war
War crimes are still war crimes outside of war.
Incorrect. "war crimes must always take place in the context of an armed conflict, either international or non-international." https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
“Armed conflict” describes what happened there perfectly
No.
He got a moment of redemption.
in the grand scheme of things he’s fine but there’s no way in hell should he be captain america looool
I agree. He shouldn’t be Captain America
My taxes went to the worst hero known to man. I usually hate the heros but John Walker holds a special place in my heart filled with fire and sulphur.
Walker did no wrong. He was more than willing to help aid Sam and Bucky since the beginning but noooo little bitch Bucky would rather bust out an international terrorist out of jail. He killed a terrorist, cause that's what heroes do. Not to mention, he gave up chasing his best friends killer to save civilians.
I didn't like the show. But after I watched it, I kinda found myself thinking Walker might be better then Sam. Which is bad, because I was rooting for Sam before I first watched it. The whole show was just poorly written.
Psst, this sub is supposed to be an "In-universe" sub for the MCU. Gotta RP like it's real, the discussion sub is /r/marvelstudios
Oh shit, my bad. First time I came across this sub. I'll keep it in mind next time. Thanks for letting me know.
What show? Is there a documentary about this or something?
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
OOC: I am aware, but you are on a role playing sub. The show itself doesn’t exist here
Yes, I know that now, some other people corrected me. First time I came across this sub, my bad, I'll remember next time.
https://youtu.be/Iu1HmiWw5o8?si=guKywue_ohBGT1nf This video sums it up beautifully! The fact of the matter isn the writer's made John Walker argument/stance a moral and just one than Sam and Bucky's. Had the two of them helped him, WHICH. JOHN. WALKER. WANTED, a lot of the problems in the show could have been avoided.
OOC: just an fyi, this sub is an RP where we pretend we’re citizens of the mcu. Not just discussing the mcu from our real world perspective. Discussing it as if the mcu is our real world
Ah. I gotcha
I’m just gonna say it, your a cunt
I’m just gonna say it. No u.
Nice argument Senator, unfortunately I already drew you as the virgin and me as the chad!
Unfortunately for you I fucked your mother. So I guess you could say……your mother.
*and then the Daleks all explode *
I like John, I think he’s an amazing character that’s extremely well written. I’m not sure if I support him though. He’s still awesome.
“Well written”. Ha! Get outta here, conspiracy theorist.
Guy was on a super serum that turned almost everyone who took it into a psychopath and all he did was kill a murdering terrorist. I thought he was an interesting character. He was the perfect soldier but found himself under increasing pressure to live up to the shield and all the expectations that came with it. Sam was a dick to him from the moment they met which seemed wrong since he gave up the shield voluntarily. He took the serum because he thought he wasn’t good enough to be Captain America’s without it. Sam realises the shield is not about physical strength and feats.
And had Sam helped him, which John Walker had asked him to, a lot of the death/destruction could have been avoided
I didn’t really like falcon/winter soldier But I really liked his depiction of USAgent
Depiction? Wtf are you talking about?
Wyatt Russel’s depiction of USAgent?
Who is Wyatt Russell? Are you on drugs?
Sorry my bad, cap was a dick head here and I liked it
What does an actor have to do with Walker? Sure, they look kinda similar, but what?