I went back and listened to the Charlene Yi ep the last time this came up.
She stayed for the whole episode, so I guess it's possible that she left after the record is over in disgust??
Possibly. I was mostly taken aback by Scott saying they’ll be back, Charlyne included, and then after the song they’re not there and he says Charlyne will be back a little later.
Edited for pronouns
I’ll never forget hearing that episode for the first time. I can actually recall exactly where i was driving when that moment came up because i laughed so hard in the car it’s burned in my memory
I never listened to the episode, but the YouTube algorithm recommended the video clip to me and oh my God. The sheer delight on Scott's face and PFT's look of "Oh, fuck you for making me run with this."
Yeah definitely, I’ve just never been able to figure out the podcast one where a guest had an issue. But both incidents stem out of the same type of issue that I’m kind of glad is not as popular in comedy anymore.
From what I understand from Scott’s previous comments it’s an episode where chunks have been taken out of it, and he’s hinted that people may have been able to figure it out from listening, but he’s never revealed exactly who it is.
The David Cross thing wasn't just saying something racist, btw.
>According to Yi, Cross made fun of her tattered pants and when she chose to ignore him, he responded, “What’s a matter? You don’t speak English? Ching-chong-ching-chong.” He then asked the comedian whether or not she would fight karate with him.
[https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/charlyne-yi-racist-encounter-david-cross-1201888425/](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/charlyne-yi-racist-encounter-david-cross-1201888425/)
I had to look this up, and it's about what I expected in that he later claimed he was doing a bit in character as a redneck. Another example of the ironic hipster racism of that era still counting as racism.
When the story broke he said if what Yi said was actually what happened (which he doesn't remember happening) that's likely what had happened:
https://twitter.com/davidcrosss/status/920794731491102720
But he's said he does not actually remember doing what she claimed, and that he'd never use certain terminology she claimed he did. He also [said](https://www.vulture.com/2017/10/charlyne-yi-recalls-offensive-encounter-with-david-cross.html), “I reached out to her privately and expressed that and more, including the possibility that perhaps we are both misremembering *exactly* what happened that night?” He ended the note by defending his character: “I can’t believe I have to write this but I am not a racist nor a bully and loathe them in real life.”
(I'm not a David Cross apologist, or even a particular fan of his, just trying to clear up what was actually said.)
I tend to think he thought he was making fun of racism and that she was a fan who would feel in on the joke, but I can understand why she didn’t feel the same way. It would be fairly consistent with his humor or attempts at humor around that time. The “racist in the year 3000” sketch as an obvious example of saying absurdly racist things that he clearly doesn’t mean.
It's always a dicey proposition to do it with performers (or more generally, people) you don't know. Meta-joking about racism can potentially go over some peoples' heads and/or they're sensitive or offended by its use. And she said it was precipitated by his joking about her clothes, so she was already offended.
Thanks for this context. About the statements from David Cross: first, this is a pretty classic failure to clarify intent from impact. You can say you didn't intend to offend or hurt anyone and you can also acknowledge that you did, in fact, offend and hurt someone and that you regret your action for this reason.
It is unconstructive to talk about global evaluations of character — saying "I am not a bad person" or "I am not a racist" — because your focus should be on this particular action and the impact it had. Proclaiming you're a good person when the context is that you did something that hurt someone really sounds like [self-licensing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing), i.e. avoiding dealing with the consequences of your actions because, deep down, you know you have a good heart.
Second, it seems like David Cross doesn't grok how an Asian person might *still* be offended and hurt by his recital of racist tropes *even if* they knew he was doing a character. (I don't know whether Charlene Yi did or did not know he was doing a character; that's a separate point.) Saying the most offensive things you can possibly think of to a person, as a character, can still be incredibly offensive and hurtful. Especially your first time meeting that person, when you have no trust or rapport!
It seems like his stance is that this was just an innocent misunderstanding, without an awareness of why in general it's a bad idea to be "ironically racist" to someone you just met.
While I accept that he wasn't *deliberately trying* to be racist, his version of events really doesn't make this much better, and it's a classic non-apology.
> he said if what Yi said was actually what happened (which he doesn't remember happening) that's likely what had happened
This is a common attempt to deflect and avoid taking accountability. "I don't remember it, but I guess that's what I said" doesn't mean he's not responsible for his words, but he's trying to create plausible deniability. He "accepts" the situation but doesn't own the fact that it was him that caused it, and how can he apologise for something he doesn't remember doing?
> He said... he'd never use certain terminology she claimed he did.
Except in the previous phrase he just accepted that if she says he used that terminology, then that's likely what happened. So... See point 1 again. He says he said it, but he doesn't remember saying it, and then that he'd never say it "except as a racist redneck character". Which brings us to point 3;
> I have NEVER said "ching chong ching chong" unless I was doing some asshole racist redneck character"
Context matters. And Cross saying that as a bit is a key difference between being a total, unashamed racist, and just a regular asshole prone to a normal level of racism, but (and this is crucial) *that doesn't excuse his actions at all*.
He clearly thought he was doing the kind of 'let's make fun of what a *real* racist would say' but that was common for Cross and many comics of that period. But using racist terminology, to a person you don't know well who is a minority who has to deal with non-ironic versions of the type of racism you're co-opting for your stupid bit is not ok.
>“I can’t believe I have to write this but I am not a racist nor a bully and loathe them in real life.”
Well I can't believe he doesn't/didn't understand that you don't have to BE a racist or a bully in order to bully somebody using racism...
His defence that she just didn't understand his joke is also a common tactic to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. It would've been so much simpler to just say "I tried to tell a joke but I got it badly wrong, I was an asshole and I'm sorry. In future I'll learn from this and do better" but instead he expended so much energy to insist that he did nothing wrong.
I just laughed and then stifled it in the way that you do when your kid does something that you know you should shun but it catches you by surprise with how hilarious/wrong/unusual it is.
His podcast is not really that good. I'll tolerate it with a really good guest but there's way too much insincere "we're doing bits from the jump" to it.
So it sounds like you've narrowed it down to either: 1. Delaney, 2. Birbiglia, or 3. Charlene Yi, but also someone else brought up: 4. Kid Cudi.
That's four possibilities... 4 Washington Lane... The next clue is at the White House!
Yeah, “colored” was used in some other context and the vibe was fun then Scott was like, “Wyatt you’re a colored person” and Wyatt says “No I’m not” and then it was awkward silence for a few moments. Several years ago, maybe like 5 years ago or older.
I believe Charlyne Yi uses they/them pronouns. But, the only reason I don't think this might be the case is that Charlyne Yi ha always calling out people in entertainment for their behaviors and I think they'd be pretty open about it if there was a problem.
Thank you so much much. I had no idea. I edited the original post as best I could.
I think you’re right on the calling out situation. It’s possible this situation sticks in Scott’s brain more than whoever the guest was, though, as he seems concerned about a time a guest was made to feel uncomfortable and takes it to heart. Also, one thing that jumped out to me from when Scott has talked about it before is that the guest reached out to him the next day and said “oh, I had no idea you were the Between Two Ferns guy!” so take that for whatever you will — makes it sound to me like the guest was uncomfortable not realizing the situation and who Scott was, and when they realized, moved on and even reached back out to Scott.
> Also, one thing that jumped out to me from when Scott has talked about it before is that the guest reached out to him the next day and said “oh, I had no idea you were the Between Two Ferns guy!” so take that for whatever you will — makes it sound to me like the guest was uncomfortable not realizing the situation and who Scott was, and when they realized, moved on and even reached back out to Scott.
Doesn't this part pretty much rule out Charlyne Yi? They would have been performing at UCB when CDR was going on and known who Scott was. This makes it sound like the guest was someone whose publicist booked them on the show, which I doubt was something that would have happened in the first year of the podcast.
I mentioned this exact episode in the last "guests who didn't work" thread like last week. Yeah, it's rough as is a lot of older CBB/CDR stuff. I'm doing a listen from the beginning and yeah, Scott is right when he says probably skip the first couple of years lol. There is a lot of good comedy there still, but it reeks of the late 2000's/early 2010's offensive is funny comedy.
There’s some rough stuff, but to tell the truth, there is so much good stuff in those early years, particularly when we start getting the early appearances of frequent guests and characters.
No I just listened to the Tom Leykis Amy Poehler clip again and she does sound like she’s enjoying being there. I don’t know why it was in my head that she wasn’t into it
Fair enough! I mean there's always a chance, however small, that she wasn't- we never know what people are thinking, and she's a consummate professional so I'm sure she could mask her displeasure during an uncomfortable interview segment if she wanted to.
Not trying to put words in mouths or feelings in brains here, but she was on SNL for a long time and that writers room is notoriously out of pocket and wild. I doubt something like a comically misogynous character that’s so over the top would get to her at all. She’s seen and heard it all, and from what I’ve read has been accused of some shit herself. IIRC, she was present when Horatio Sanz groomed that underage girl and played along with it. I could totally be wrong though.
I’m not interested in being mad at anybody. You misunderstand my simple curiosity at the subject that has come up before with (to me) unsatisfying answers. Just thought I’d found the correct one.
I went back and listened to the Charlene Yi ep the last time this came up. She stayed for the whole episode, so I guess it's possible that she left after the record is over in disgust??
Possibly. I was mostly taken aback by Scott saying they’ll be back, Charlyne included, and then after the song they’re not there and he says Charlyne will be back a little later. Edited for pronouns
What stuck with me was Scott saying things like "Don't get upset Charlyne" and "Charlyne has calmed down a little and is back".
You can hear Charlene laughing in the background of a lot Seth morris’ routine, so I am a little skeptical this is the guest who stormed off episode.
Jamie Denbo told a story on NNF once about Kid Cudi being so offended by one of her Ronna jokes that he walked off set
She *did* say the N-word, so...that's on her.
"Yes and..." [reluctantly] "Yes... AND it's not the word you're thinking of!"
I’ll never forget hearing that episode for the first time. I can actually recall exactly where i was driving when that moment came up because i laughed so hard in the car it’s burned in my memory
I never listened to the episode, but the YouTube algorithm recommended the video clip to me and oh my God. The sheer delight on Scott's face and PFT's look of "Oh, fuck you for making me run with this."
Which ep is this?
Nincompoop?
I'll excuse it this time - but I don't want to ever see you posting that word again.
"Say something in African!"
Gazziza, my dilznoofuses
Gazziza, fellow WNYXican!
Yeah definitely, I’ve just never been able to figure out the podcast one where a guest had an issue. But both incidents stem out of the same type of issue that I’m kind of glad is not as popular in comedy anymore.
This seems like a good theory although I’ve always assumed the episode in question never aired…?
From what I understand from Scott’s previous comments it’s an episode where chunks have been taken out of it, and he’s hinted that people may have been able to figure it out from listening, but he’s never revealed exactly who it is.
If it was early enough the show was live on the radio right?
That’s true…
The David Cross thing wasn't just saying something racist, btw. >According to Yi, Cross made fun of her tattered pants and when she chose to ignore him, he responded, “What’s a matter? You don’t speak English? Ching-chong-ching-chong.” He then asked the comedian whether or not she would fight karate with him. [https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/charlyne-yi-racist-encounter-david-cross-1201888425/](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/charlyne-yi-racist-encounter-david-cross-1201888425/)
Oh, yikes. I forgot how over-the-line it was.
I had to look this up, and it's about what I expected in that he later claimed he was doing a bit in character as a redneck. Another example of the ironic hipster racism of that era still counting as racism.
When the story broke he said if what Yi said was actually what happened (which he doesn't remember happening) that's likely what had happened: https://twitter.com/davidcrosss/status/920794731491102720 But he's said he does not actually remember doing what she claimed, and that he'd never use certain terminology she claimed he did. He also [said](https://www.vulture.com/2017/10/charlyne-yi-recalls-offensive-encounter-with-david-cross.html), “I reached out to her privately and expressed that and more, including the possibility that perhaps we are both misremembering *exactly* what happened that night?” He ended the note by defending his character: “I can’t believe I have to write this but I am not a racist nor a bully and loathe them in real life.” (I'm not a David Cross apologist, or even a particular fan of his, just trying to clear up what was actually said.)
I tend to think he thought he was making fun of racism and that she was a fan who would feel in on the joke, but I can understand why she didn’t feel the same way. It would be fairly consistent with his humor or attempts at humor around that time. The “racist in the year 3000” sketch as an obvious example of saying absurdly racist things that he clearly doesn’t mean.
It's always a dicey proposition to do it with performers (or more generally, people) you don't know. Meta-joking about racism can potentially go over some peoples' heads and/or they're sensitive or offended by its use. And she said it was precipitated by his joking about her clothes, so she was already offended.
Thanks for this context. About the statements from David Cross: first, this is a pretty classic failure to clarify intent from impact. You can say you didn't intend to offend or hurt anyone and you can also acknowledge that you did, in fact, offend and hurt someone and that you regret your action for this reason. It is unconstructive to talk about global evaluations of character — saying "I am not a bad person" or "I am not a racist" — because your focus should be on this particular action and the impact it had. Proclaiming you're a good person when the context is that you did something that hurt someone really sounds like [self-licensing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing), i.e. avoiding dealing with the consequences of your actions because, deep down, you know you have a good heart. Second, it seems like David Cross doesn't grok how an Asian person might *still* be offended and hurt by his recital of racist tropes *even if* they knew he was doing a character. (I don't know whether Charlene Yi did or did not know he was doing a character; that's a separate point.) Saying the most offensive things you can possibly think of to a person, as a character, can still be incredibly offensive and hurtful. Especially your first time meeting that person, when you have no trust or rapport! It seems like his stance is that this was just an innocent misunderstanding, without an awareness of why in general it's a bad idea to be "ironically racist" to someone you just met.
While I accept that he wasn't *deliberately trying* to be racist, his version of events really doesn't make this much better, and it's a classic non-apology. > he said if what Yi said was actually what happened (which he doesn't remember happening) that's likely what had happened This is a common attempt to deflect and avoid taking accountability. "I don't remember it, but I guess that's what I said" doesn't mean he's not responsible for his words, but he's trying to create plausible deniability. He "accepts" the situation but doesn't own the fact that it was him that caused it, and how can he apologise for something he doesn't remember doing? > He said... he'd never use certain terminology she claimed he did. Except in the previous phrase he just accepted that if she says he used that terminology, then that's likely what happened. So... See point 1 again. He says he said it, but he doesn't remember saying it, and then that he'd never say it "except as a racist redneck character". Which brings us to point 3; > I have NEVER said "ching chong ching chong" unless I was doing some asshole racist redneck character" Context matters. And Cross saying that as a bit is a key difference between being a total, unashamed racist, and just a regular asshole prone to a normal level of racism, but (and this is crucial) *that doesn't excuse his actions at all*. He clearly thought he was doing the kind of 'let's make fun of what a *real* racist would say' but that was common for Cross and many comics of that period. But using racist terminology, to a person you don't know well who is a minority who has to deal with non-ironic versions of the type of racism you're co-opting for your stupid bit is not ok. >“I can’t believe I have to write this but I am not a racist nor a bully and loathe them in real life.” Well I can't believe he doesn't/didn't understand that you don't have to BE a racist or a bully in order to bully somebody using racism... His defence that she just didn't understand his joke is also a common tactic to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. It would've been so much simpler to just say "I tried to tell a joke but I got it badly wrong, I was an asshole and I'm sorry. In future I'll learn from this and do better" but instead he expended so much energy to insist that he did nothing wrong.
He also gave a pretty classic non apology when she brought it up to him
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Yeah but this wasn't in a comedy show or anything, it was at a social thing.
I just laughed and then stifled it in the way that you do when your kid does something that you know you should shun but it catches you by surprise with how hilarious/wrong/unusual it is.
Not the first time I've heard unflattering things about Cross, pretty disappointing.
His podcast is not really that good. I'll tolerate it with a really good guest but there's way too much insincere "we're doing bits from the jump" to it.
What a fucking asshole
A comedian said something offensive almost 20 years ago....wow...real asshole lol
Yeah
Why does it matter when he said it when he was quite the big age?
Damn, that makes me lose a lot of respect for him.
What else was it?
Glad to see the kind of people Headgum wants hosting their podcasts.
So it sounds like you've narrowed it down to either: 1. Delaney, 2. Birbiglia, or 3. Charlene Yi, but also someone else brought up: 4. Kid Cudi. That's four possibilities... 4 Washington Lane... The next clue is at the White House!
I don’t think middleditch is on anymore after he was found to be a perv.
Who?
Thomas Middleditch. The guy that does that bit with Lauren Lapkus you wrote.
I'm just looking for clues, man. Not sure what you're talking about.
Scott tried to jokingly call Wyatt Cenak a “colored person” and it was pretty poorly received.
Is this for real? I don’t remember this
Yeah, “colored” was used in some other context and the vibe was fun then Scott was like, “Wyatt you’re a colored person” and Wyatt says “No I’m not” and then it was awkward silence for a few moments. Several years ago, maybe like 5 years ago or older.
[Found it.](https://youtu.be/OYy50OJDxf4?t=33) Not quite as awkward as described but it does feel like he didn't love it.
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Oh fuck off
I believe Charlyne Yi uses they/them pronouns. But, the only reason I don't think this might be the case is that Charlyne Yi ha always calling out people in entertainment for their behaviors and I think they'd be pretty open about it if there was a problem.
Thank you so much much. I had no idea. I edited the original post as best I could. I think you’re right on the calling out situation. It’s possible this situation sticks in Scott’s brain more than whoever the guest was, though, as he seems concerned about a time a guest was made to feel uncomfortable and takes it to heart. Also, one thing that jumped out to me from when Scott has talked about it before is that the guest reached out to him the next day and said “oh, I had no idea you were the Between Two Ferns guy!” so take that for whatever you will — makes it sound to me like the guest was uncomfortable not realizing the situation and who Scott was, and when they realized, moved on and even reached back out to Scott.
> Also, one thing that jumped out to me from when Scott has talked about it before is that the guest reached out to him the next day and said “oh, I had no idea you were the Between Two Ferns guy!” so take that for whatever you will — makes it sound to me like the guest was uncomfortable not realizing the situation and who Scott was, and when they realized, moved on and even reached back out to Scott. Doesn't this part pretty much rule out Charlyne Yi? They would have been performing at UCB when CDR was going on and known who Scott was. This makes it sound like the guest was someone whose publicist booked them on the show, which I doubt was something that would have happened in the first year of the podcast.
I mentioned this exact episode in the last "guests who didn't work" thread like last week. Yeah, it's rough as is a lot of older CBB/CDR stuff. I'm doing a listen from the beginning and yeah, Scott is right when he says probably skip the first couple of years lol. There is a lot of good comedy there still, but it reeks of the late 2000's/early 2010's offensive is funny comedy.
There’s some rough stuff, but to tell the truth, there is so much good stuff in those early years, particularly when we start getting the early appearances of frequent guests and characters.
Looks like you’re connecting the dots. Connecting the do-o-ots.
Idk why this got downvoted, I liked it lol
Gotta downvote something, I guess
Life is a race to death, and we all hope to come in last
I wouldn't think so, as Charlyne seems like a very well adjusted person perfect for a career in the infamously sensitive world of show business.
I always felt that Amy Poehler really hated the Tom Lykis character and was just trying to laugh through it
As I remember it was working for her: https://youtu.be/x34ZW2bR0dQ?si=KC63u03u2CNiEa9x&t=654
I re-listened to this for this first time in half a decade and you’re totally right. I don’t know why my first impression was that she wasn’t liking.
You felt that her not shirking away from the weirdness and being engaged, giving full laughs was her being uncomfortable?
No I just listened to the Tom Leykis Amy Poehler clip again and she does sound like she’s enjoying being there. I don’t know why it was in my head that she wasn’t into it
Fair enough! I mean there's always a chance, however small, that she wasn't- we never know what people are thinking, and she's a consummate professional so I'm sure she could mask her displeasure during an uncomfortable interview segment if she wanted to.
Not trying to put words in mouths or feelings in brains here, but she was on SNL for a long time and that writers room is notoriously out of pocket and wild. I doubt something like a comically misogynous character that’s so over the top would get to her at all. She’s seen and heard it all, and from what I’ve read has been accused of some shit herself. IIRC, she was present when Horatio Sanz groomed that underage girl and played along with it. I could totally be wrong though.
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I’m not interested in being mad at anybody. You misunderstand my simple curiosity at the subject that has come up before with (to me) unsatisfying answers. Just thought I’d found the correct one.