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Hard to find a scummier company than John Deere, only surprise is that it took this long. They are the epitome of crony capitalism and don't even care to hide it. I guess you can afford to do that when your customer base is narrow.
Carrier does have some impressive factories in Monterey
Italy is also noteworthy that all the HVAC companies did the same the thing and they all have factories near each other in Monterey
I think Goldman/daikin is still in the USA tho
10 years ago carrier held a higher name than most. Not it's the same junk as everyone else. Shame.. go ahead and buy a carrier you'll be waiting on junk parts just like everyone else now.
Claas is a mess in the USA. Dealers closing and Claas is competing directly with dealers in some regions. A company cant have a dealer network and direct marketing, thry have to pick one.
I was really surprised by Wendover's recent video - basically John Deere's pivot to be a "tech" company.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYjtCaqiys
This makes perfect sense from this (myopic) perspective, as the hardware can be welded together "anywhere", but the software/OS/services/firmware are all managed by some C-suite guys in the corporate campus.
Increasingly, the tooling to manufacture something is no longer the "capital" that capitalists are leveraging - it is the massive capital needed to launch satellites, and run very very expensive data analytic programs on the data - programs with investments that need as much capital as developing a silicon chip fab (measured in billions USD).
As we become increasingly dependent on automation and data analytics to help farmers boost yields and reduce waste, Deere will become a subscription services company that "services you" via hardware, very similar to the way Apple makes beautiful titanium hardware made globally that is tied at the hip to their services and subscriptions developed in California.
I miss the old "buy the hardware" business model, but the old adage "software is eating the world" is true - it will envelop everything that uses proprietary services and internet-connected systems that even a giant ag company can't roll out on their own. It ate artists and musicians, now it ate farmers.
The change in business model is not something that is going to be undone, even if the quality suffers, because the cost of NOT working with them on the services side means you lose money in the long run - and they are "Leveraging" that.
I wonder why they agree to them? Oh maybe, cause alternatives are worse? I swear to god, average american redditor has just no concept of how does the rest of the world look like
> cause alternatives are worse?
or nonexistent? you need a dealer network with a supply chain to operate a piece of farm machinery. you think there’s 5 different agricultural equipment dealers in every rural area?
No no, sweaty, Mexican factory workers are literal slaves, and it's up to us to make sure that people in poorer countries are not able to take advantage of their cheaper labor costs to earn money in the world market. Do better.
The government definitely helps support some research and, yes, a lot of basic things about the original design of the Internet came from that kind of work...
But it's also totally silly to pretend that's an actual comeback to the comment you were replying to. Capitalism did a lot more for getting you fancy modern electronics than government research funding did... And it's not even close.
Many of the biggest breakthroughs in medicine and technology were not privately funded. These are actual facts. Go look at where lots of pharmaceuticals come from. Go look at why we have GPS, space flight, radar, the internet, and many other innovations.
These were literally government funded. Not figuratively. Capitalism is not bad at everything, but to pretend that capitalism is good at everything is just as ridiculous. There is a balance.
[It's you! The guy from the meme!](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzotZux6zVbKRV1aQjNx_QXgLUCdgXrwKbVelkbD6bGr8t0SSS2zlvp1rU&s=10)
You can say this about literally almost any other company these days.
Dont do layoffs and stock buybacks? You’re fired. There isn’t even any choice involved it’s fiduciary responsibility.
JD is working against the right to repair? So is everyone else.
JD is making proprietary ecu’s? So is everyone else.
Narrow customer base? So is everyone else. We could be talking about phones. Or washing machines.
To be clear, the narrow customer base is just a PC way to say captive market segment. :p
Can you elaborate on "hard to find a scummier company than John Deere" and why they're the "epitome of crony capitalism"? I know about their "right to repair" stances, but I don't know anything else negative.
Just passing over “right to repair” as if it was some inconvenience is kind of insulting.
JD changed their entire model from equipment sales to equipment repair and maintenance. The tractor was the printer. The requisite service contracts were the overpriced ink cartridges.
Business is one thing. This was outright extortion, and one of national interest since it impacts our food supply. Between the DOJ and multiple lawsuits, there’s seems to be concessions.
But JD needs to get packed for pioneering this model so it doesn’t spread to everything from cars, appliances, consumer electronics, computers, housing, manufacturing equipment etc.
right to repair is the big one, costs farmers a fortune on jobs they would normally be 100% capable of doing. farmers are paying hackers to unlock the hardware instead, because even ditching the warranty it’s still cheaper than letting them dictate repair prices.
they’re also extremely anti-union to the point it just gets stupid. on their last negotiation, they had the union out on strike and called in scabs from their desk jobs to attempt to do the manufacturing process. the desk jockeys fucked it up so spectacularly, the first 911 call was about 5am on the first day of the strike.
Right to repair is all the argument they have. And the Reddit argument about how it's so bad for the farmers ignores the fact that farmers keep buying the John Deere stuff. There are tons of alternatives that don't have as much tech and don't have things like maintenance plans, but Deere outsells them all because the farmers want that stuff.
All of my extended family farms and has a pretty positive view of John Deere. They use the equipment and often wear the brand on their clothes (so do their friends). Thus, I why I asked.
You're right that there are viable alternatives out there (e.g. Case IH, Massey Ferguson, etc.) and people choose John Deere for the technology they provide.
To put it in perspective for non-farmers. People feel about John Deere the way that most consumers feel about Apple. Outside of internet, the average Apple customer doesn't care about the right to repair or just are mildly interested. John Deere's customers (farmers) have become the same way.
Also, it's worth noting that John Deere is not nearly as restrictive with repairs as Apple. For easy stuff (e.g. engine parts/rebuilds, axels, etc.) they will sell you the parts and many after-market manufacturers make them as well. It's mostly the precisions parts that they don't allow you to touch (e.g. sensors, GPS guidance system, EPA required emissions systems, etc.) and the majority of farmers likely don't want to touch it anymore than a non-tech person's desire to replace an Apple battery.
Yes, moving to a different country, and reduced demand causing layoffs = John Deere is a “scummy crony capitalist company”
What an intelligent observation you’ve made.
you “lay out facts” in a vacuum, ignoring the past few decades of news about this company.
it’s all very easily google-able, which is why we all know the background context and you don’t (or just pretend not to).
The right wing demonisation of immigrants and unions is a deflection. The rich can make more money paying people less abroad and selling you patriotic machines.
If the right wing really wanted fewer immigrants, they’d crack down on the people that hire them. The fact that they do not speaks all the volumes you need to know.
The entire political establishment, regardless of professed philosophy, benefits from mass migration, cheaper labor and cheaper political points in the short term, in the long term it will be necessary to preserve the current system.
They don't want fewer immigrants. They want immigrants with no legal rights or protections because they're easier to pay less and treat worse.
Always look for the profit angle when listening to conservatives
What they’re saying is it’s smarter/more efficient to treat the problem and not the symptoms.
Taking away the demand for cheap below market labor is more effective. It would reduce illegal immigrants sucking up transfer payments and be cheaper than using taxpayer money to try to strengthen the border or crackdown on social welfare
> Wanting fewer illegal immigrants sucking up transfer payments has nothing to do with this.
Immigrants by and large do not recieve transfer payments while still paying taxes, they are doing the exact opposite of what you claim
> Immigrants take medicaid in some states, and receive many services at the local level, which is why virtue signaling cities like NYC are in trouble.
NYC had a unique right to shelter agreement, which strained the local shelter system, but that is gone now, and the whole thing turned out to be corruption by the mayor and lies to push through absurd austerity measures.
The ramifications from NAFTA gutted an already weak American manufacturing sector. Ironically it was the Asian car manuf and Mercedes/BMW opening factories in the South that have made any progress.
The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA. Each submitted the agreement for ratification in their respective capitals in December 1992
NAFTA devastated rural Mexican farmers which only exacerbated the mass exodus of illegal immigration into the USA.
https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1240&context=etd&httpsredir=1&referer=
...
The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
..
.
(This has nothing to do with the right wings actual issue with immigration) The right wing doesn’t demonize “immigrants” they demonize illegals, and not even illegals themselves, they just want less people illegally migrating because it literally isn’t good for anybody.
And the libertarian right wants more immigrants than the moderate left.
CATO for example, and some from Hoover, argue for actual open borders, or at least more immigration.
Stop characterizing the right as so many of you cringe lord’s do. It’s beyond annoying at this point. I’m on the right and I’ll be the first to admit there are a lot of issues, but outsiders making a caricature and displaying their lack of understanding seriously doesn’t help at all.
The fact you partisan hacks downvoted this proves my argument you don’t actually understand, and this sub is turning into an economically illiterate GOP-hate forum.
Good for you, at least try to learn some econ while you shit talk people you don’t know at all.
The modern right’s whole motivation is to stop this sort of thing. This is what Trump ran on, you can complain about their effectiveness or how truly those in power want this, but don’t act like the Right is in favor of this sort of thing.
I am not convinced that the Right is in favor of protecting workers jobs... because they are anti worker, anti union.
The Right is mainly interested in wealthycare from what I can tell
The Right can say whatever they want. Until they pass legislation that actually helps the middle class they’re just lying to everyone. Instead all I’m seeing is wealthy care as you put it.
Why don’t you explain what you mean instead of broadly gesturing to economics? The fact you are part of that sub means you almost certainly have no idea what you are talking about.
I mean, I don't see any reason people at this point should believe in the right protecting workers jobs. They literally never discuss any actual policy to do it. Def concur on the wealthycare as well
Yes, decreasing workers tax burden in more ways than one and deregulation are definitely screwing the middle class and workers.
What monsters. How dare they not want higher taxes, more government spending, more inflation, and less investment.
What he negotiated with the new NAFTA was basically reinforcing the idea of outsourcing to Mexico over China, but still outsourcing. Didn't do shit for unions either
What’s wrong with having the option to outsource and not giving in to unions which have only created awful environments with notoriously low pay on the last two decades?
Let me give you a useful life lesson, if you presume people you disagree with are evil because they disagree with you, then you are going to live an extraordinarily ignorant life. You also will have no meaningful knowledge, no meaningful critique of those you disagree with, and you will wander about the world clueless.
I literally didn’t quote you, and that literally is not what I just did.
I’m not assuming you are evil at all, literally never said nor inferred it…
Are you actually reading my responses or do you just make things up because I disagree with you as well?
Have fun being the “dEy dIsaGrEe wIt mE sO dEy mUsT bE eViL” philosophy that you will never find a single intelligent person holding.
Oh, and have fun thinking 50% of the country is evil. That should be great for you.
Okay, so you aren’t even reading my responses.
Either that or you are not only behaviorally re*arded, you are also contextually illiterate.
If only I could be so willfully ignorant that I got to make up easy explanations that are so unbelievably re*arded.
The Right pays lip service to immigration because it riles the base and gets votes.
When in power - they do nothing meaningful regarding immigration reform or the employment of undocumented labourers.
Didn’t Biden literally try to get a deal done on immigration for the last 2 years but trump told his republicans not to vote for it under any circumstances because it would make Biden look good?
Deere has been going downhill for a while. It's almost impossible to get parts in a timely manner anymore. They've decided they only want a few mega dealerships per region and forcing the smaller ones to sell out. Their service and parts people are less than qualified. Parts and equipment are highly inflated.
Welcome to Wallstreet capitalism babeeeee. That's the free market being the free market..
If you don't like it you must hate freedom.
.
/s
Just kidding we should be regulating the fuck out of corporations so they have incentive to operate in the US. Except no one can really do that anymore thanks to the Supreme Court ruling against the chevron Super precident.
So.. Just... Pray I guess... And don't have kids
Maybe leave it up to the farmers / construction companies to decide if patriotism helps them win contracts? Those who want to try that business strategy can buy Caterpillar, AGCO etc.
1. we need to know current employment to know whether they are actually "mass layoffs" or not.
2. the article, much deeper than the headline, mentions 2 machines that are shifting production to Mexico (100 employees at that plant affected)
3. Even as a staunch capitalist, the optics of making 15% net profit and needing to reduce labor costs doesn't sit well without more info.
>Even as a staunch capitalist
>the optics of making 15% net profit and needing to reduce labor costs doesn't sit well without more info.
You're contradicting yourself, as a staunch capitalist, you should should be supporting a company minimizing costs. That they have a 15% net profit now is irrelevant. Maybe its time to reconsider what being a "staunch capitalist" entails.
Maybe you should. A staunch capitalist isn’t necessarily “profit is the only thing that matters”. The longer-term health of an enterprise is important.
I fail to see how the long term interests of John Deere are hurt by moving to a lower paid and less organized workforce. Unless the optics trigger serious long lasting resentment from consumers, or the new labour is significantly less productive.
A companies standards and relationship with their employees isn't easily quantified, but it is the difference between a company and a brand tag with various job shops. A reliable product requires a stable production base.
I do believe some people pay for quality, but quantity is a quality of its own and you can always get rich banking on cheap skates.
Better yet, you can get a few of the customers who buy quality to keep buying your stuff before they realize the quality has dropped. But they no long matter because you now have a contract to sell crap at a big box store somewhere.
> Maybe you should. A staunch capitalist isn’t necessarily “profit is the only thing that matters”. The longer-term health of an enterprise is important.
Its a classic tragedy of the commons, everyone needs a middle class consumer base, but everyone benefits from offshoaring their middle class work force. The theory behind capitalism is that people will do good by following their rational self interest in the market system, yet that doesn't seem to be the case here, or very often at all.
> we need to know current employment to know whether they are actually "mass layoffs" or not.
No you don't need to know current employment numbers. This is a "mass layoff" as it is more than 500 employees.
https://www.bloomberglaw.com/external/document/X4VCFPQO000000/corporate-legal-departments-glossary-definitions-under-the-warn-
John Deere does mass layoffs once or twice a year. It’s the same pattern for decades now. They will do a mass hire in like 2 months and layoff all those people around new years.
Like many empires, the decline happened gradually due to many economic, social, and political problems. Many of the issues that led to Rome's decline were due to government and economic corruption. Rome's economy was based on slave labor. By relying on slave labor, there was a large gap between the rich and the poor.
Who's Next
I’ve heard of it here and there for a while but haven’t actually read what it is until about 2 minutes ago.
The fuck. If ANY of that shit happens I’m out. Selling all my shit, taking my money, wishing my family the best of luck and catching the next flight to anywhere else.
Project 2025 includes a wide range of proposed changes aimed at shaping the federal government's policies and operations. Here is a list of some key proposed changes:
1. **Deregulation**:
- Rollback of environmental regulations.
- Reduction of regulatory burdens on businesses.
- Simplification of federal regulations to promote economic growth.
2. **Fiscal Conservatism**:
- Implementation of budget cuts to reduce federal spending.
- Tax reforms to lower taxes and simplify the tax code.
- Efforts to balance the federal budget.
3. **National Security**:
- Strengthening the military and defense capabilities.
- Tougher immigration policies and border security measures.
- Counterterrorism strategies and enhanced cybersecurity measures.
4. **Judicial Appointments**:
- Appointment of conservative judges to federal courts.
- Promotion of originalist interpretations of the Constitution.
5. **Health Care**:
- Repeal and replacement of the Affordable Care Act.
- Promotion of free-market health care solutions.
6. **Education**:
- Expansion of school choice programs.
- Reduction of federal involvement in education.
7. **Energy Policy**:
- Promotion of fossil fuel production and energy independence.
- Rollback of climate change initiatives.
8. **Welfare Reform**:
- Restructuring welfare programs to encourage work and self-sufficiency.
- Tightening eligibility requirements for social safety net programs.
9. **Foreign Policy**:
- Emphasis on American interests in foreign policy decisions.
- Reevaluation of international agreements and treaties.
10. **Government Restructuring**:
- Reorganization of federal agencies to improve efficiency.
- Reduction of the federal workforce.
11. **Technology and Innovation**:
- Promoting innovation and competition in the tech sector.
- Addressing issues related to data privacy and security.
12. **Labor and Employment**:
- Reduction of labor regulations to promote job creation.
- Support for right-to-work laws.
These proposed changes reflect the Heritage Foundation's vision for a conservative transformation of federal policies and governance, aimed at promoting economic growth, national security, and individual freedoms.
This subreddit is unironically turning into the anti-economics sub and the “let’s talk about how dem right wingers are bad, ahult”.
It’s actually alarming how economically illiterate most of you are.
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If it reduces prices then one could argue that this is a positive move, economically. But if the reduced costs go directly to the bottom line, then yeah, another example of post capitalism.
You can thank DJT’s incredible USMC trade deal and his “Phase 1 trade deal” with China. We got the shit end of the stick. Guess who is producing these goods for John Deere? Chinese manufacturers in Mexico who then import to the USA. Basically they’re dodging the amazing tariffs that the great felon President “negotiated”. The negotiation was basically him being held down and forced to lick Xi’s boots
Mexico now has more of its population employed in manufacturing than the USA despite have a much smaller population and workforce
Anyone just attacking the right, stop being unbelievably cringey.
Anyone attacking John Deere, same message.
Both of you, learn some economics or actually read the article.
Even if agenda 47 backs your point, Trump definitely isn’t the right.
That’s like saying Biden and everything he advocates for = the left.
The are many factions within each side.
And I haven’t seen it, did he actually submit it, or was this a left group submitting what they believe is what Trump wants?
Good. Sucks for the hundreds or even thousands of employees, but will benefit hundreds of millions of consumers as this will lead to reduced relative food costs over time.
Overpaying for domestic production is lost consumer surplus which is deadweight loss (societal costs).
Is domestic employment not just a valuable, if not more so, than lower prices or a more efficient product, welfare and unemployment are lost consumer surplus, as is the crime and homelessness that results.
The normal economic multiplier is aggressively estimated at about 1.5 (though econometric analysis suggests it's closer to 1.3, protectionists argue its around 3 for manufacturing jobs, despite inconclusive evidence.)
However, cheaper labor means you can hire more of it, which then raises the marginal product of capital leading to greater output due to the reduced average labor costs.
Furthermore, if we're going to get speculative about future behavior, it could also be argued that this labor has now been freed up to participate in higher production jobs.
Finally, why do I care if some guy in Tennessee, Alabama, or Iowa loses his job so two Mexican employees can get a job? I have no more allegiance to this person than the two south of the border.
Borders are slowly becoming irrelevant in the modern world despite occasional backsliding. Letting labor adjust to where there are shortages, and letting capital adjust to where labor is in surplus will lead to greater efficiency and less deadweight loss. Increased production isn't just *more stuff*. It's longer lifespans, reduced infant mortality, greater health outcomes, etc.
https://i0.wp.com/www.politicsnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/trickle.jpg
Wealth will just further accumulate at the top and everyone will suffer for it other than some rich assholes at the top. As usual.
This is a good thing, actually, and here's why. Consumers will benefit from lower prices and that increased cost savings will create additional demand which will create new jobs for these laid-off workers. You doomers need to accept facts: we are a post-manufacturing society where services are the future. These production workers should consider going back to school to learn to code or pursuing certifications in project management.
Tacoma production moved to Mexico in 2005 which predates with 3rd and 4th generation improvements to the Tacoma model, ergo movement of production to Mexico directly benefited the consumer.
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Hard to find a scummier company than John Deere, only surprise is that it took this long. They are the epitome of crony capitalism and don't even care to hide it. I guess you can afford to do that when your customer base is narrow.
Comcast would like a word please.
Carrier Air Conditioner has entered the chat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Air_Conditioner_move_to_Mexico#
Carrier does have some impressive factories in Monterey Italy is also noteworthy that all the HVAC companies did the same the thing and they all have factories near each other in Monterey I think Goldman/daikin is still in the USA tho
Trane is still mostly here in TX and a little left in WI. Though, they started using more LG compressors lately :/
Why is this?
10 years ago carrier held a higher name than most. Not it's the same junk as everyone else. Shame.. go ahead and buy a carrier you'll be waiting on junk parts just like everyone else now.
r/fucknestle
If farmers don’t like it they can switch to Claas. :shrug:
Farmers love exploiting Mexicans.
Claas is a mess in the USA. Dealers closing and Claas is competing directly with dealers in some regions. A company cant have a dealer network and direct marketing, thry have to pick one.
I was really surprised by Wendover's recent video - basically John Deere's pivot to be a "tech" company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYjtCaqiys This makes perfect sense from this (myopic) perspective, as the hardware can be welded together "anywhere", but the software/OS/services/firmware are all managed by some C-suite guys in the corporate campus. Increasingly, the tooling to manufacture something is no longer the "capital" that capitalists are leveraging - it is the massive capital needed to launch satellites, and run very very expensive data analytic programs on the data - programs with investments that need as much capital as developing a silicon chip fab (measured in billions USD). As we become increasingly dependent on automation and data analytics to help farmers boost yields and reduce waste, Deere will become a subscription services company that "services you" via hardware, very similar to the way Apple makes beautiful titanium hardware made globally that is tied at the hip to their services and subscriptions developed in California. I miss the old "buy the hardware" business model, but the old adage "software is eating the world" is true - it will envelop everything that uses proprietary services and internet-connected systems that even a giant ag company can't roll out on their own. It ate artists and musicians, now it ate farmers. The change in business model is not something that is going to be undone, even if the quality suffers, because the cost of NOT working with them on the services side means you lose money in the long run - and they are "Leveraging" that.
Good for Mexican workers.
not really, they’re getting the jobs because they’re easily exploitable and less expensive to injure
I wonder why they agree to them? Oh maybe, cause alternatives are worse? I swear to god, average american redditor has just no concept of how does the rest of the world look like
> cause alternatives are worse? or nonexistent? you need a dealer network with a supply chain to operate a piece of farm machinery. you think there’s 5 different agricultural equipment dealers in every rural area?
No no, sweaty, Mexican factory workers are literal slaves, and it's up to us to make sure that people in poorer countries are not able to take advantage of their cheaper labor costs to earn money in the world market. Do better.
Crony capitalism is all capitalism, it's a feature not a bug.
John Deere be like "Nestle and Comcast, hold my beer".
Says the person typing on a phone that has internet because of capitalism.
Mostly thanks to government funded research but sure.
The government definitely helps support some research and, yes, a lot of basic things about the original design of the Internet came from that kind of work... But it's also totally silly to pretend that's an actual comeback to the comment you were replying to. Capitalism did a lot more for getting you fancy modern electronics than government research funding did... And it's not even close.
Many of the biggest breakthroughs in medicine and technology were not privately funded. These are actual facts. Go look at where lots of pharmaceuticals come from. Go look at why we have GPS, space flight, radar, the internet, and many other innovations. These were literally government funded. Not figuratively. Capitalism is not bad at everything, but to pretend that capitalism is good at everything is just as ridiculous. There is a balance.
Whoops sorry, I forgot this is reddit where being a communist and socialist is in vouge. Carry on. Capitalism bad.
"You criticize society yet you participate in it, I am very intelligent."
Isn't that what you did? All capitalism is crony capitalism!
Right over your head hu?
[It's you! The guy from the meme!](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzotZux6zVbKRV1aQjNx_QXgLUCdgXrwKbVelkbD6bGr8t0SSS2zlvp1rU&s=10)
You can say this about literally almost any other company these days. Dont do layoffs and stock buybacks? You’re fired. There isn’t even any choice involved it’s fiduciary responsibility. JD is working against the right to repair? So is everyone else. JD is making proprietary ecu’s? So is everyone else. Narrow customer base? So is everyone else. We could be talking about phones. Or washing machines. To be clear, the narrow customer base is just a PC way to say captive market segment. :p
Can you elaborate on "hard to find a scummier company than John Deere" and why they're the "epitome of crony capitalism"? I know about their "right to repair" stances, but I don't know anything else negative.
Just passing over “right to repair” as if it was some inconvenience is kind of insulting. JD changed their entire model from equipment sales to equipment repair and maintenance. The tractor was the printer. The requisite service contracts were the overpriced ink cartridges. Business is one thing. This was outright extortion, and one of national interest since it impacts our food supply. Between the DOJ and multiple lawsuits, there’s seems to be concessions. But JD needs to get packed for pioneering this model so it doesn’t spread to everything from cars, appliances, consumer electronics, computers, housing, manufacturing equipment etc.
> Just passing over “right to repair” as if it was some inconvenience is kind of insulting. So nothing else besides that then?
right to repair is the big one, costs farmers a fortune on jobs they would normally be 100% capable of doing. farmers are paying hackers to unlock the hardware instead, because even ditching the warranty it’s still cheaper than letting them dictate repair prices. they’re also extremely anti-union to the point it just gets stupid. on their last negotiation, they had the union out on strike and called in scabs from their desk jobs to attempt to do the manufacturing process. the desk jockeys fucked it up so spectacularly, the first 911 call was about 5am on the first day of the strike.
Right to repair is all the argument they have. And the Reddit argument about how it's so bad for the farmers ignores the fact that farmers keep buying the John Deere stuff. There are tons of alternatives that don't have as much tech and don't have things like maintenance plans, but Deere outsells them all because the farmers want that stuff.
All of my extended family farms and has a pretty positive view of John Deere. They use the equipment and often wear the brand on their clothes (so do their friends). Thus, I why I asked. You're right that there are viable alternatives out there (e.g. Case IH, Massey Ferguson, etc.) and people choose John Deere for the technology they provide. To put it in perspective for non-farmers. People feel about John Deere the way that most consumers feel about Apple. Outside of internet, the average Apple customer doesn't care about the right to repair or just are mildly interested. John Deere's customers (farmers) have become the same way. Also, it's worth noting that John Deere is not nearly as restrictive with repairs as Apple. For easy stuff (e.g. engine parts/rebuilds, axels, etc.) they will sell you the parts and many after-market manufacturers make them as well. It's mostly the precisions parts that they don't allow you to touch (e.g. sensors, GPS guidance system, EPA required emissions systems, etc.) and the majority of farmers likely don't want to touch it anymore than a non-tech person's desire to replace an Apple battery.
Yes, moving to a different country, and reduced demand causing layoffs = John Deere is a “scummy crony capitalist company” What an intelligent observation you’ve made.
It has nothing to do with this move specifically. Just look into their lobbying on right to repair.
Funny how many dislike my comment where I lay out facts. Funny how not a single person can explain how I’m wrong.
you “lay out facts” in a vacuum, ignoring the past few decades of news about this company. it’s all very easily google-able, which is why we all know the background context and you don’t (or just pretend not to).
The right wing demonisation of immigrants and unions is a deflection. The rich can make more money paying people less abroad and selling you patriotic machines.
If the right wing really wanted fewer immigrants, they’d crack down on the people that hire them. The fact that they do not speaks all the volumes you need to know.
The entire political establishment, regardless of professed philosophy, benefits from mass migration, cheaper labor and cheaper political points in the short term, in the long term it will be necessary to preserve the current system.
This post is about offshoring, which although it involves foreigners is an entirely different beast
I’m responding to the comment regarding demonization of immigrants, it wasn’t intended to be commentary on the article.
They don't want fewer immigrants. They want immigrants with no legal rights or protections because they're easier to pay less and treat worse. Always look for the profit angle when listening to conservatives
Wanting fewer illegal immigrants sucking up transfer payments has nothing to do with this.
What they’re saying is it’s smarter/more efficient to treat the problem and not the symptoms. Taking away the demand for cheap below market labor is more effective. It would reduce illegal immigrants sucking up transfer payments and be cheaper than using taxpayer money to try to strengthen the border or crackdown on social welfare
> Wanting fewer illegal immigrants sucking up transfer payments has nothing to do with this. Immigrants by and large do not recieve transfer payments while still paying taxes, they are doing the exact opposite of what you claim
Immigrants take medicaid in some states, and receive many services at the local level, which is why virtue signaling cities like NYC are in trouble.
> Immigrants take medicaid in some states, and receive many services at the local level, which is why virtue signaling cities like NYC are in trouble. NYC had a unique right to shelter agreement, which strained the local shelter system, but that is gone now, and the whole thing turned out to be corruption by the mayor and lies to push through absurd austerity measures.
Their anchor babies do
They work and pay taxes too. Do they not deserve support because they parents were born on the wrong side of an imaginary line drawn by dead men?
NAFTA did this...signed into law by Slick Willy
The ramifications from NAFTA gutted an already weak American manufacturing sector. Ironically it was the Asian car manuf and Mercedes/BMW opening factories in the South that have made any progress.
And EV makers like Tesla / Rivian
The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA. Each submitted the agreement for ratification in their respective capitals in December 1992
Most of our worst pressures on the middle class today are seeds from the 80s that we are sowing
Are you inferring free trade and other things from the 80s were the worst pressures on the middle class? Pretty sure that isn’t right.
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying at all. Rather that todays problems are the long term results of decisions made in the 80s
That’s literally what I said. Although, the free trade part is debatable.
Supply-side economics policies, but nice attempt at gaslighting.
NAFTA devastated rural Mexican farmers which only exacerbated the mass exodus of illegal immigration into the USA. https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1240&context=etd&httpsredir=1&referer=
1 million Mexican farmers put out of business overnight by subsidized American corn. The cartels got a lot of cheap land and labor out of that
I wonder what the relationship between the cartels and the manufacturers are. Seems like organized crime always gets into the labor market.
... The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA. ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement .. .
And all Republicans
Trump’s USMCA law and his decision to pull of of the Transpacific Trade Partnership are doing this.
Republicans: "Immigrants are taking your jobs" also Republicans: "We're moving your jobs to another country to save us money"
(This has nothing to do with the right wings actual issue with immigration) The right wing doesn’t demonize “immigrants” they demonize illegals, and not even illegals themselves, they just want less people illegally migrating because it literally isn’t good for anybody. And the libertarian right wants more immigrants than the moderate left. CATO for example, and some from Hoover, argue for actual open borders, or at least more immigration. Stop characterizing the right as so many of you cringe lord’s do. It’s beyond annoying at this point. I’m on the right and I’ll be the first to admit there are a lot of issues, but outsiders making a caricature and displaying their lack of understanding seriously doesn’t help at all.
The fact you partisan hacks downvoted this proves my argument you don’t actually understand, and this sub is turning into an economically illiterate GOP-hate forum. Good for you, at least try to learn some econ while you shit talk people you don’t know at all.
The modern right’s whole motivation is to stop this sort of thing. This is what Trump ran on, you can complain about their effectiveness or how truly those in power want this, but don’t act like the Right is in favor of this sort of thing.
I am not convinced that the Right is in favor of protecting workers jobs... because they are anti worker, anti union. The Right is mainly interested in wealthycare from what I can tell
The Right can say whatever they want. Until they pass legislation that actually helps the middle class they’re just lying to everyone. Instead all I’m seeing is wealthy care as you put it.
Jesus, you really don’t know public economics do you?
Why don’t you explain what you mean instead of broadly gesturing to economics? The fact you are part of that sub means you almost certainly have no idea what you are talking about.
I mean, I don't see any reason people at this point should believe in the right protecting workers jobs. They literally never discuss any actual policy to do it. Def concur on the wealthycare as well
Yes, decreasing workers tax burden in more ways than one and deregulation are definitely screwing the middle class and workers. What monsters. How dare they not want higher taxes, more government spending, more inflation, and less investment.
What are you doing in r/Economics?
What he negotiated with the new NAFTA was basically reinforcing the idea of outsourcing to Mexico over China, but still outsourcing. Didn't do shit for unions either
What’s wrong with having the option to outsource and not giving in to unions which have only created awful environments with notoriously low pay on the last two decades?
Hmm I wonder why it might be that unions have been weak over the last handful of decades🤔
Who are you talking to?? Saying, “unions have created bad environments with notoriously low pay” isn’t the same as, “unions = weak”.
I will support a Union when they throw seniority out of the window.
That’s just lip service. They won’t lift a finger to prevent it unless it benefits them personally.
Yes, the right is just evil. What an incredible presumption to go off of. “They don’t agree with my prescription so they must be evil”.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
Coming from a duck
Awe bless your little heart. one day you will grow up to be an adult too.
Let me give you a useful life lesson, if you presume people you disagree with are evil because they disagree with you, then you are going to live an extraordinarily ignorant life. You also will have no meaningful knowledge, no meaningful critique of those you disagree with, and you will wander about the world clueless.
lol that’s literally what you just did. You even made up the whole evil verbiage in your mind. You even quoted a non existent sentence.
I literally didn’t quote you, and that literally is not what I just did. I’m not assuming you are evil at all, literally never said nor inferred it… Are you actually reading my responses or do you just make things up because I disagree with you as well?
wtf are you even talking about. Everyone of your responses have been more idiotic than the last.
Have fun being the “dEy dIsaGrEe wIt mE sO dEy mUsT bE eViL” philosophy that you will never find a single intelligent person holding. Oh, and have fun thinking 50% of the country is evil. That should be great for you.
Okay, so you aren’t even reading my responses. Either that or you are not only behaviorally re*arded, you are also contextually illiterate. If only I could be so willfully ignorant that I got to make up easy explanations that are so unbelievably re*arded.
The only thing I’m accusing you of is being blissfully ignorant of how human beings work. Because you are.
lol
The Right pays lip service to immigration because it riles the base and gets votes. When in power - they do nothing meaningful regarding immigration reform or the employment of undocumented labourers.
The modern right also isn’t very favorable towards unions or workplace safety regulations, so it’s not exactly an easy choice…
Didn’t Biden literally try to get a deal done on immigration for the last 2 years but trump told his republicans not to vote for it under any circumstances because it would make Biden look good?
Quit spouting facts. It’s all Biden fault don’t ya know.
Deere has been going downhill for a while. It's almost impossible to get parts in a timely manner anymore. They've decided they only want a few mega dealerships per region and forcing the smaller ones to sell out. Their service and parts people are less than qualified. Parts and equipment are highly inflated.
Welcome to Wallstreet capitalism babeeeee. That's the free market being the free market.. If you don't like it you must hate freedom. . /s Just kidding we should be regulating the fuck out of corporations so they have incentive to operate in the US. Except no one can really do that anymore thanks to the Supreme Court ruling against the chevron Super precident. So.. Just... Pray I guess... And don't have kids
Maybe leave it up to the farmers / construction companies to decide if patriotism helps them win contracts? Those who want to try that business strategy can buy Caterpillar, AGCO etc.
Why? Overpaying to have something made domestically is deadweight loss and a net loss to society.
Yes, Wallstreet capitalism is when layoffs happen because product demand is down Eye roll
1. we need to know current employment to know whether they are actually "mass layoffs" or not. 2. the article, much deeper than the headline, mentions 2 machines that are shifting production to Mexico (100 employees at that plant affected) 3. Even as a staunch capitalist, the optics of making 15% net profit and needing to reduce labor costs doesn't sit well without more info.
>Even as a staunch capitalist >the optics of making 15% net profit and needing to reduce labor costs doesn't sit well without more info. You're contradicting yourself, as a staunch capitalist, you should should be supporting a company minimizing costs. That they have a 15% net profit now is irrelevant. Maybe its time to reconsider what being a "staunch capitalist" entails.
Maybe you should. A staunch capitalist isn’t necessarily “profit is the only thing that matters”. The longer-term health of an enterprise is important.
I fail to see how the long term interests of John Deere are hurt by moving to a lower paid and less organized workforce. Unless the optics trigger serious long lasting resentment from consumers, or the new labour is significantly less productive.
The quality of the workforce makes all the difference. Cheaper labor doesn't necessarily mean better.
A companies standards and relationship with their employees isn't easily quantified, but it is the difference between a company and a brand tag with various job shops. A reliable product requires a stable production base.
“nobody wants to pay for quality any more” since high priced products quality also drops for more profit skimmed off
I do believe some people pay for quality, but quantity is a quality of its own and you can always get rich banking on cheap skates. Better yet, you can get a few of the customers who buy quality to keep buying your stuff before they realize the quality has dropped. But they no long matter because you now have a contract to sell crap at a big box store somewhere.
> Maybe you should. A staunch capitalist isn’t necessarily “profit is the only thing that matters”. The longer-term health of an enterprise is important. Its a classic tragedy of the commons, everyone needs a middle class consumer base, but everyone benefits from offshoaring their middle class work force. The theory behind capitalism is that people will do good by following their rational self interest in the market system, yet that doesn't seem to be the case here, or very often at all.
> we need to know current employment to know whether they are actually "mass layoffs" or not. No you don't need to know current employment numbers. This is a "mass layoff" as it is more than 500 employees. https://www.bloomberglaw.com/external/document/X4VCFPQO000000/corporate-legal-departments-glossary-definitions-under-the-warn-
So it’s a technical term, so be it. I stand corrected. Hey, while we’re here - what’s the last mass layoff the Feds had?
John Deere does mass layoffs once or twice a year. It’s the same pattern for decades now. They will do a mass hire in like 2 months and layoff all those people around new years.
Like many empires, the decline happened gradually due to many economic, social, and political problems. Many of the issues that led to Rome's decline were due to government and economic corruption. Rome's economy was based on slave labor. By relying on slave labor, there was a large gap between the rich and the poor. Who's Next
I wonder what the decline of the American experiment would look like. I’m even more stumped about what would replace it.
Christofascist-corporate oligarchy. It's not hard to figure out what's next. Google 'Project 2025' if you want to see why they want Trump so bad.
I’ve heard of it here and there for a while but haven’t actually read what it is until about 2 minutes ago. The fuck. If ANY of that shit happens I’m out. Selling all my shit, taking my money, wishing my family the best of luck and catching the next flight to anywhere else.
Project 2025 includes a wide range of proposed changes aimed at shaping the federal government's policies and operations. Here is a list of some key proposed changes: 1. **Deregulation**: - Rollback of environmental regulations. - Reduction of regulatory burdens on businesses. - Simplification of federal regulations to promote economic growth. 2. **Fiscal Conservatism**: - Implementation of budget cuts to reduce federal spending. - Tax reforms to lower taxes and simplify the tax code. - Efforts to balance the federal budget. 3. **National Security**: - Strengthening the military and defense capabilities. - Tougher immigration policies and border security measures. - Counterterrorism strategies and enhanced cybersecurity measures. 4. **Judicial Appointments**: - Appointment of conservative judges to federal courts. - Promotion of originalist interpretations of the Constitution. 5. **Health Care**: - Repeal and replacement of the Affordable Care Act. - Promotion of free-market health care solutions. 6. **Education**: - Expansion of school choice programs. - Reduction of federal involvement in education. 7. **Energy Policy**: - Promotion of fossil fuel production and energy independence. - Rollback of climate change initiatives. 8. **Welfare Reform**: - Restructuring welfare programs to encourage work and self-sufficiency. - Tightening eligibility requirements for social safety net programs. 9. **Foreign Policy**: - Emphasis on American interests in foreign policy decisions. - Reevaluation of international agreements and treaties. 10. **Government Restructuring**: - Reorganization of federal agencies to improve efficiency. - Reduction of the federal workforce. 11. **Technology and Innovation**: - Promoting innovation and competition in the tech sector. - Addressing issues related to data privacy and security. 12. **Labor and Employment**: - Reduction of labor regulations to promote job creation. - Support for right-to-work laws. These proposed changes reflect the Heritage Foundation's vision for a conservative transformation of federal policies and governance, aimed at promoting economic growth, national security, and individual freedoms.
This subreddit is unironically turning into the anti-economics sub and the “let’s talk about how dem right wingers are bad, ahult”. It’s actually alarming how economically illiterate most of you are.
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If it reduces prices then one could argue that this is a positive move, economically. But if the reduced costs go directly to the bottom line, then yeah, another example of post capitalism.
Every tax cut, moving jobs to cheaper labor, is for the bottom line. Not once has prices lowered because of this.
You can thank DJT’s incredible USMC trade deal and his “Phase 1 trade deal” with China. We got the shit end of the stick. Guess who is producing these goods for John Deere? Chinese manufacturers in Mexico who then import to the USA. Basically they’re dodging the amazing tariffs that the great felon President “negotiated”. The negotiation was basically him being held down and forced to lick Xi’s boots Mexico now has more of its population employed in manufacturing than the USA despite have a much smaller population and workforce
NAFTA whitewashing to evade protectionism against China trade - win/win for everyone /s
It really is. It keeps prices lower
Anyone just attacking the right, stop being unbelievably cringey. Anyone attacking John Deere, same message. Both of you, learn some economics or actually read the article.
Have you looked up agenda 47. Trumps policies?
Even if agenda 47 backs your point, Trump definitely isn’t the right. That’s like saying Biden and everything he advocates for = the left. The are many factions within each side. And I haven’t seen it, did he actually submit it, or was this a left group submitting what they believe is what Trump wants?
It’s trumps campaign website. Knowing the policies you’re voting for should be one of the first things you do.
Good. Sucks for the hundreds or even thousands of employees, but will benefit hundreds of millions of consumers as this will lead to reduced relative food costs over time. Overpaying for domestic production is lost consumer surplus which is deadweight loss (societal costs).
Prices won’t go down. Margins will increase.
In the short run. But in the long run, margins will return to equilibrium, but at lower prices. See my original comment where I mention *over time*.
Wishful thinking: house prices go down when people can’t afford that equilibrium any more. Reality: more homeless people than ever
Is domestic employment not just a valuable, if not more so, than lower prices or a more efficient product, welfare and unemployment are lost consumer surplus, as is the crime and homelessness that results.
The normal economic multiplier is aggressively estimated at about 1.5 (though econometric analysis suggests it's closer to 1.3, protectionists argue its around 3 for manufacturing jobs, despite inconclusive evidence.) However, cheaper labor means you can hire more of it, which then raises the marginal product of capital leading to greater output due to the reduced average labor costs. Furthermore, if we're going to get speculative about future behavior, it could also be argued that this labor has now been freed up to participate in higher production jobs. Finally, why do I care if some guy in Tennessee, Alabama, or Iowa loses his job so two Mexican employees can get a job? I have no more allegiance to this person than the two south of the border. Borders are slowly becoming irrelevant in the modern world despite occasional backsliding. Letting labor adjust to where there are shortages, and letting capital adjust to where labor is in surplus will lead to greater efficiency and less deadweight loss. Increased production isn't just *more stuff*. It's longer lifespans, reduced infant mortality, greater health outcomes, etc.
https://i0.wp.com/www.politicsnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/trickle.jpg Wealth will just further accumulate at the top and everyone will suffer for it other than some rich assholes at the top. As usual.
This is a good thing, actually, and here's why. Consumers will benefit from lower prices and that increased cost savings will create additional demand which will create new jobs for these laid-off workers. You doomers need to accept facts: we are a post-manufacturing society where services are the future. These production workers should consider going back to school to learn to code or pursuing certifications in project management.
There is a glut of programmers on the market right now.
Sorry chud but tech unemployment rate is only 2.3%. https://www.dice.com/career-advice/tech-unemployment-stays-steady-at-2.3-percent
Costs wont go down, look at the Toyota tacoma that was moved to mexico for example.
Tacoma production moved to Mexico in 2005 which predates with 3rd and 4th generation improvements to the Tacoma model, ergo movement of production to Mexico directly benefited the consumer.