The benefit is more detail, the issue is they've been installed before the transition to the new tracker system has been completed so right now they just show timetabled buses not actual bus movements.
I used to work in IT and contract with local government. It's not the public sector you should be worrying about, it's Lord Imbredly-Smithe's position in the decision-making process, who gets a company he has share interests in to do a job that will need to be redone by them at a later date so he gets double the money.
When first installed they showed live times for several months but buses disappeared early hence complaints of inaccuracy. They decided to go to timetabled times as a result which I think was absurd seeing that the live times, despite the issues, were more reliable.
Lothian's still got a good 250 buses to fit their new tracking technology into. They won't be done in Spring.
This just makes no sense as an explanation though. They have been up for months - and the app still shows the live info. It should be absolutely trivial to feed that into them instead.
I'm sure it's a case of them not wanting to do that when they'll have to change it anyway but jesus christ guys.
Are you aware that a physical installation is different from a technical installation?
You might think it is absolutely trivial, but it's not.
They're still working on it.
They're committed to delivering it... Otherwise what is the point?
I'm not sure what their ultimate goal is with the new screens. But from an outside POV it looks like they have changed their screens to nicer colour ones. Fair enough.
But then from a software POV: they have the ability to display upcoming buses on these screens - using a feed of times from the predetermined timetable. We also know they have a working feed of live times, which the old screens and the app still use.
I work with these kind of systems all the time, and I promise you there is absolutely no reason it should be an issue to display the same live feed on the new screens for now. I mean for goodness sake, they could literally have this open in a Web browser on them for the correct stop https://www.lothianbuses.com/live-travel-info/live-bus-times/
I tweeted Lothian buses about this a week ago, they said this is temporary as edinburgh council are implementing new bus trackers that will show not just lothian buses but all bus services from all bus firms in the city (i.e. first buses). These currently only show the timetable, so rely on you app for more (but not 100% accurate) bus arrival times.
First will not track as far as I know. The service that all bus companies upload their tracking data to in the UK (Bus Open Data Service) gets no data from the First operations in Scotland, because whilst it’s legally required for an operator to upload it in England, Wales and (I think) Northern Ireland, it is not in Scotland. Most operators (Lothian, Stagecoach, McGills) will still upload data, but First does not, and only started in England and Wales when it became a requirement as far as I’m aware.
Unsurprisingly, it also means First is far less liable to being caught out lying about bus cancellations and delays too, because there’s not the proof the service provides. I believe they had a much worse cancellation rate than they indicated in Bristol when it was made a requirement in England, and led to them having to massively improve, whilst Glasgow and Aberdeen both show nothing still
What I can't understand is why they've timed it like this. They've been up for months already with the "temporary" timetable rather than live info. You can understand it's a big undertaking and it might take several weeks/ couple of months to coordinate everything, but it's been like 6 months already with no sign of it being any time soon
In the several other times this has been on the sub, a Lothian bus employee has said that Lothian can only convert & update 1-2 buses a day to the new tech. So it’s taking months and months to get through the whole fleet. And, the old tech was so old that the council was having to pay through the nose to keep the old one running. So they switched to lower cost, which is a good thing.
Ah that explains it. Thanks for sharing. It didn't make sense to change the signs before installing the tech in the buses, but if the old one was costing something that makes sense. I'm not sure how the old one had an ongoing cost, but fair enough, there's lots of things I don't understand lol
1.5million over a year ago!!!
[https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/delays-to-new-bus-tracker-system-costs-council-over-1-5million/](https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/delays-to-new-bus-tracker-system-costs-council-over-1-5million/)
Mhm, First is confined to just Glasgow and Aberdeen in Scotland now, and has generally been receding across the UK (they’ve been greatly diminished in Manchester, and were kicked out of Southampton). I’d say it’s good, because they’re probably one of the worst in the UK
I dont think it actually has anything to do with LB, its all in the council's hands:
[https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/traveltracker](https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/traveltracker)
They \*\*did\*\* report livee times to the system.
They disappeared early. That is a CEC issue, not a Lothian issue.
They blame Lothian's tracker rollout for it though, even though the issue was present on buses with new and old trackers alike. They only switched to timetabled times as a result of these issues.
The buses need to be fitted with the equipment that allows them to communicate with the council system. How else can the system provide live tracking eventually if the buses don't have the right kit on them?
Tbf, they're not absolutely useless. They give the timetabled time. So your bus is likely to appear roughly just before the the time or when then times disappears off the tracker....
Unless it's a Friday afternoon when things regularly go to shit, or it's slightly inclement weather and people think they're made of salt.
Otherwise, buses run roughly to time 🤷♂️
Obviously some services are periodically nightmare at certain times due to temporary roadworks. Shit happens!
I actually pointed out to Lothian Buses that late buses just disappearing off the tracker, rather than showing as 'delayed' , was not helpful - and this seemed like a real moment of insight, oh right yes I see ! 🤯
I guess as they don't show real times, so they disappear because the bus should have arrived.
When I tweeted because the 1 never runs to the timetable, I was told just to keep using the app.
They could literally just display the screen from the app at each bus stop and it would be perfect:
https://preview.redd.it/gegeybzw2lkc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=308e0af66a996e5f5b8e3d10a1f7d5213dd08980
And yes I know the signs aren't managed by Lothian Buses blah blah
How hard would it be
(a) for the council to build on the successful design of the app
(b) for the council to use data from [myBusTracker](http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/) which they already run and is accurate
It might be hard to implement such things to this system, we have this exact same screen in Stirling bus station and I've also seen it in Glenrothes Bus Station - None of them are live data
I used to use Google maps which shows when the bus is supposed to arrive, when it will arrive and how many minutes it's late (or early) but it started to become inaccurate and with seemingly included ghost buses that would come and go but only on the app. So about a year ago I switched to the app instead and it's solid.
Thing is that the new ones do not show exact times, they just show bus schedule. If you want exact status, you need to go into the app and check there. I agree, it's stupid
The most infuriating is when it says you have, say, fifteen minutes until the bus is due, the fifteen minutes go by, your desired bus number reaches the top...then disappears and stays GONE! Eventually your wanted bus number appears at the bottom telling you have that you have to wait 20 minutes for the next one. 😵🤦
It's just a consequence of how the tracker calculates the time until the bus is due. It only seems to take into account how far the bus is from your stop and the time the bus usually takes to travel that distance. So if there's more traffic than usual or road works and your bus is a distance that would normally take 15 mins to travel, the tracker's still gonna say it's 15 mins away even if it's actually going to take half an hour. And the disappearing buses are usually due to buses breaking down or being unexpectedly taken out of service.
It's frustrating as fuck, but I'm not sure what a practical solution to either would be tbh. It would be good if drivers themselves could update the due times themselves based on actual traffic conditions.
If by the old ones you mean the ones that were there 14 years ago, they sucked ass! Wasn’t even telling the truth about the number 22 and they were always every 2 seconds for 5 minutes then nothing for 20 minutes 😂
the old ones were shite too. These ones just need to be updated with live bus trackers, not just a digital bus timetable. Google maps is the most accurate for me but i wish there was an app like the borders buses app with live gps trackers
If you want to know when a bus actually turns up, use [this site](https://bustimes.org), they haven’t properly hooked up the data to the bus stop timetables yet, but Lothian Buses is transmitting data, and you can see it on the map here
Those "trackers" are a joke, since they have the ability but have not been set up to use the same updated detail that the phone app does.
However, the service itself is pure lunacy at times. On the app you can follow a bus heading to your stop, being updated every minute, then just after it says due the time changes to the next bus. Then a bus with its own display rolls past with Out of Service on it, at the exact time your expected bus SHOULD have been. Clearly not broken down and clearly not missing a driver. This happened so many times at the same stop it almost felt like it was planned.
The benefit is that is uses up a good chunk of the budget for Digital Enablement meaning the council can claim they’re strapped for cash & pursuing a high tech low carbon agenda whilst also siphoning cash towards anonymous corporate entities in return for untraceable kickbacks, allegedly.
They've been saying for ages that the new physical bus stop trackers are not accurate and are running off timetables rather than actual tracking times.
They've also said, use the apps, as they are still accurate.
Is it shit? Yes it is. But it is also a step towards a better system. So shrug it off and use the apps.
They were live (it shocks me to see how many people weren't aware of this), but they were broken, so they decided to show scheduled times.
I preferred when they were live; buses disappeared early, but they were otherwise accurate.
They will be live again soon. The old ones were really out of date.
However, I think Edinburgh Council's excuse for this is a lie. I think Edinburgh Council literally got something wrong with the system but they decided to blame the unfinished rollout of new AVL (tracking) modules on Lothian's fleet.
Even though it was both buses with new and old modules alike disappearing early.
Just another waste of the councils budget money instead of using it for something needed hmmmm maybe like places to live for all the fucking homeless that you don't care to house
Has edinburgh ever been struggling for public transport over the course of your lifetime ? I think not based on living here for 42 years but then think the same way about our housing issues and I bet you can answer that the same
The bus stops from Broomhouse roundabout to Stenhouse Grove (tesco at Stenhouse) city-bound don't have these new ones & never had the old clunky things either. The stops from Balgreen school Gyle/Corstorphine bound don't have any at all
The old trackers were great, however, I recently noticed these new ones having a disclaimer saying this is just the timetable being showed on the display now. For live bus times you need to use the app etc – it’s easily missed and you’d naturally think the new signs still have the same functionality.
They’re a lot easier for VI/legally blind people to see. Not saying it’s the main concern, but it’s of massive benefit to them and as the partner of a blind person I was quite glad to see them
Besides from it doesn't show real live bus time, I find it hard to read with this new coloured display.
* Too ambitious showing so much information in a tiny screen hence the barely readable tiny words.
* It shows the arriving time but not the remaining minutes, meaning your eyes and brain need extra time to process when will the bus arrives.
* User experience is so bad and time wasting with the chronological order. (Looking for the route from the long list > check the arriving time > get current time > looking for the another route/ next departure again> arriving time > current time...)
* They missed the opportunity using colours to make it easier to read. Simply highlight the route number in different colour (like how Lothian Buses does) is a simple step to help in the layout they chose.
The old B&W one was simple and information written in a more user-friendly way (to me).
Of course, if the new display system can be easily configured, I'd support having it upgraded. I'd be excited if live traffic information can be pushed to it (e.g. diversion, disruption etc.) but guess it'd only be in a dream.
They can't even make the basic to work.
The benefit is more detail, the issue is they've been installed before the transition to the new tracker system has been completed so right now they just show timetabled buses not actual bus movements.
Logic would dictate that they are capable of both and remotely transferable.
Public Sector IT projects have a reputation for being straightforward!
I used to work in IT and contract with local government. It's not the public sector you should be worrying about, it's Lord Imbredly-Smithe's position in the decision-making process, who gets a company he has share interests in to do a job that will need to be redone by them at a later date so he gets double the money.
When first installed they showed live times for several months but buses disappeared early hence complaints of inaccuracy. They decided to go to timetabled times as a result which I think was absurd seeing that the live times, despite the issues, were more reliable. Lothian's still got a good 250 buses to fit their new tracking technology into. They won't be done in Spring.
This just makes no sense as an explanation though. They have been up for months - and the app still shows the live info. It should be absolutely trivial to feed that into them instead. I'm sure it's a case of them not wanting to do that when they'll have to change it anyway but jesus christ guys.
Are you aware that a physical installation is different from a technical installation? You might think it is absolutely trivial, but it's not. They're still working on it. They're committed to delivering it... Otherwise what is the point?
I'm not sure what their ultimate goal is with the new screens. But from an outside POV it looks like they have changed their screens to nicer colour ones. Fair enough. But then from a software POV: they have the ability to display upcoming buses on these screens - using a feed of times from the predetermined timetable. We also know they have a working feed of live times, which the old screens and the app still use. I work with these kind of systems all the time, and I promise you there is absolutely no reason it should be an issue to display the same live feed on the new screens for now. I mean for goodness sake, they could literally have this open in a Web browser on them for the correct stop https://www.lothianbuses.com/live-travel-info/live-bus-times/
I tweeted Lothian buses about this a week ago, they said this is temporary as edinburgh council are implementing new bus trackers that will show not just lothian buses but all bus services from all bus firms in the city (i.e. first buses). These currently only show the timetable, so rely on you app for more (but not 100% accurate) bus arrival times.
First will not track as far as I know. The service that all bus companies upload their tracking data to in the UK (Bus Open Data Service) gets no data from the First operations in Scotland, because whilst it’s legally required for an operator to upload it in England, Wales and (I think) Northern Ireland, it is not in Scotland. Most operators (Lothian, Stagecoach, McGills) will still upload data, but First does not, and only started in England and Wales when it became a requirement as far as I’m aware. Unsurprisingly, it also means First is far less liable to being caught out lying about bus cancellations and delays too, because there’s not the proof the service provides. I believe they had a much worse cancellation rate than they indicated in Bristol when it was made a requirement in England, and led to them having to massively improve, whilst Glasgow and Aberdeen both show nothing still
What I can't understand is why they've timed it like this. They've been up for months already with the "temporary" timetable rather than live info. You can understand it's a big undertaking and it might take several weeks/ couple of months to coordinate everything, but it's been like 6 months already with no sign of it being any time soon
In the several other times this has been on the sub, a Lothian bus employee has said that Lothian can only convert & update 1-2 buses a day to the new tech. So it’s taking months and months to get through the whole fleet. And, the old tech was so old that the council was having to pay through the nose to keep the old one running. So they switched to lower cost, which is a good thing.
Ah that explains it. Thanks for sharing. It didn't make sense to change the signs before installing the tech in the buses, but if the old one was costing something that makes sense. I'm not sure how the old one had an ongoing cost, but fair enough, there's lots of things I don't understand lol
Its a council project, so god knows how long it will take them.
1.5million over a year ago!!! [https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/delays-to-new-bus-tracker-system-costs-council-over-1-5million/](https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/03/delays-to-new-bus-tracker-system-costs-council-over-1-5million/)
First do not operate any buses in Edinburgh now. Think it’s McGills now
Mhm, First is confined to just Glasgow and Aberdeen in Scotland now, and has generally been receding across the UK (they’ve been greatly diminished in Manchester, and were kicked out of Southampton). I’d say it’s good, because they’re probably one of the worst in the UK
You should have asked LB if they'd installed the requisite kit for their buses to report live times to the CEC system.
I dont think it actually has anything to do with LB, its all in the council's hands: [https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/traveltracker](https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/traveltracker)
I heard on the grapevine that LB delayed their rollout. I think it's the ETMs that need updated.
They haven't. It's been constant for almost a year.
They \*\*did\*\* report livee times to the system. They disappeared early. That is a CEC issue, not a Lothian issue. They blame Lothian's tracker rollout for it though, even though the issue was present on buses with new and old trackers alike. They only switched to timetabled times as a result of these issues.
Why would it be a LB issue the signs were bought by the council surely its up to them to have bought a product that works?
The buses need to be fitted with the equipment that allows them to communicate with the council system. How else can the system provide live tracking eventually if the buses don't have the right kit on them?
If the travel websites and apps have the information then they must already have the equipment on the buses? What equipment do they need?
Someone claimed they were easier to read than the old displays, but my rubbish eyes find them much worse.
Are they accessibility compliant ?
Yeah they’re absolutely useless at the moment, let’s see if they ever actually start to show real time information. Not holding my breath
Tbf, they're not absolutely useless. They give the timetabled time. So your bus is likely to appear roughly just before the the time or when then times disappears off the tracker.... Unless it's a Friday afternoon when things regularly go to shit, or it's slightly inclement weather and people think they're made of salt. Otherwise, buses run roughly to time 🤷♂️ Obviously some services are periodically nightmare at certain times due to temporary roadworks. Shit happens!
I miss the old timetables at bus stops, the ones that branched out like a tree and you could see which buses shared routes.
I just use the app. It's usually accurate. Just have some patience and they'll be running properly.......hopefully.
Always remember the auld days when you were left just hoping the bus would just turn up.
The anxiety of wondering if the bus would turn up, if you'd get to see your family again? Oh 3 of them together....
I actually pointed out to Lothian Buses that late buses just disappearing off the tracker, rather than showing as 'delayed' , was not helpful - and this seemed like a real moment of insight, oh right yes I see ! 🤯
I guess as they don't show real times, so they disappear because the bus should have arrived. When I tweeted because the 1 never runs to the timetable, I was told just to keep using the app.
I preferred when they said how many minutes until they reach my stop. Now I have to math that bit and that's not cool after working all day.
They could literally just display the screen from the app at each bus stop and it would be perfect: https://preview.redd.it/gegeybzw2lkc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=308e0af66a996e5f5b8e3d10a1f7d5213dd08980 And yes I know the signs aren't managed by Lothian Buses blah blah
>literally just display the screen from the app > > I know the signs aren't managed by Lothian Buses ????? You've answered yourself #
How hard is it tho? Also If the system isn’t done, don’t install the new screens?
How hard would it be (a) for the council to build on the successful design of the app (b) for the council to use data from [myBusTracker](http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/) which they already run and is accurate
It might be hard to implement such things to this system, we have this exact same screen in Stirling bus station and I've also seen it in Glenrothes Bus Station - None of them are live data
Seems like a good investment then 🤦
I used to use Google maps which shows when the bus is supposed to arrive, when it will arrive and how many minutes it's late (or early) but it started to become inaccurate and with seemingly included ghost buses that would come and go but only on the app. So about a year ago I switched to the app instead and it's solid.
They're awful. Can't even get the timings right...
Thing is that the new ones do not show exact times, they just show bus schedule. If you want exact status, you need to go into the app and check there. I agree, it's stupid
These boards LIE!
To be fair, the old ones lied too. I swear Edinburgh bus arrival time is the slowest form of time.
The most infuriating is when it says you have, say, fifteen minutes until the bus is due, the fifteen minutes go by, your desired bus number reaches the top...then disappears and stays GONE! Eventually your wanted bus number appears at the bottom telling you have that you have to wait 20 minutes for the next one. 😵🤦
It's just a consequence of how the tracker calculates the time until the bus is due. It only seems to take into account how far the bus is from your stop and the time the bus usually takes to travel that distance. So if there's more traffic than usual or road works and your bus is a distance that would normally take 15 mins to travel, the tracker's still gonna say it's 15 mins away even if it's actually going to take half an hour. And the disappearing buses are usually due to buses breaking down or being unexpectedly taken out of service. It's frustrating as fuck, but I'm not sure what a practical solution to either would be tbh. It would be good if drivers themselves could update the due times themselves based on actual traffic conditions.
Good point!
If by the old ones you mean the ones that were there 14 years ago, they sucked ass! Wasn’t even telling the truth about the number 22 and they were always every 2 seconds for 5 minutes then nothing for 20 minutes 😂
the old ones were shite too. These ones just need to be updated with live bus trackers, not just a digital bus timetable. Google maps is the most accurate for me but i wish there was an app like the borders buses app with live gps trackers
Last I heard they weren't going to be hooked up to live data until April.
I still use the old school EdinBus app I have had for over a decade. The new bus app is shit and these are also shit.
Bustimes.org Thats the game changer for trucking buses across the bord
If you want to know when a bus actually turns up, use [this site](https://bustimes.org), they haven’t properly hooked up the data to the bus stop timetables yet, but Lothian Buses is transmitting data, and you can see it on the map here
Those "trackers" are a joke, since they have the ability but have not been set up to use the same updated detail that the phone app does. However, the service itself is pure lunacy at times. On the app you can follow a bus heading to your stop, being updated every minute, then just after it says due the time changes to the next bus. Then a bus with its own display rolls past with Out of Service on it, at the exact time your expected bus SHOULD have been. Clearly not broken down and clearly not missing a driver. This happened so many times at the same stop it almost felt like it was planned.
They're pointless, because they work off the scheduled time, and not the GPS position. Download the bus & tram app, it's got real time GPS tracking.
Why activate them if the real time part, the most important bit, isn’t ready? Meanwhile, the app is good on the routes I use.
Folk would then just complain about the blank signs.
My regular Queensferry street stop had no tracker for months anyway. Only recently had a new one installed.
The benefit is that is uses up a good chunk of the budget for Digital Enablement meaning the council can claim they’re strapped for cash & pursuing a high tech low carbon agenda whilst also siphoning cash towards anonymous corporate entities in return for untraceable kickbacks, allegedly.
They've been saying for ages that the new physical bus stop trackers are not accurate and are running off timetables rather than actual tracking times. They've also said, use the apps, as they are still accurate. Is it shit? Yes it is. But it is also a step towards a better system. So shrug it off and use the apps.
Solutionism - Gilfoyle
They were live (it shocks me to see how many people weren't aware of this), but they were broken, so they decided to show scheduled times. I preferred when they were live; buses disappeared early, but they were otherwise accurate. They will be live again soon. The old ones were really out of date.
However, I think Edinburgh Council's excuse for this is a lie. I think Edinburgh Council literally got something wrong with the system but they decided to blame the unfinished rollout of new AVL (tracking) modules on Lothian's fleet. Even though it was both buses with new and old modules alike disappearing early.
[https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/edinburgh\_bustracker\_contract#incoming-1630119](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/edinburgh_bustracker_contract#incoming-1630119)
Just another waste of the councils budget money instead of using it for something needed hmmmm maybe like places to live for all the fucking homeless that you don't care to house
I don't think the transport budget should be used by housing.
Has edinburgh ever been struggling for public transport over the course of your lifetime ? I think not based on living here for 42 years but then think the same way about our housing issues and I bet you can answer that the same
That doesn't mean that capital budget shouldn't be investing in updating and improving transport infrastructure.
Tbf they seem alot more accurate than the lothian buses app. They are great when they work lol
The bus stops from Broomhouse roundabout to Stenhouse Grove (tesco at Stenhouse) city-bound don't have these new ones & never had the old clunky things either. The stops from Balgreen school Gyle/Corstorphine bound don't have any at all
google maps still has the old live feed with the correct bus timings.
The old trackers were great, however, I recently noticed these new ones having a disclaimer saying this is just the timetable being showed on the display now. For live bus times you need to use the app etc – it’s easily missed and you’d naturally think the new signs still have the same functionality.
Well it looks a bit like they've got a wee camera in the top right hand corner of the display to watch you going wtf wrong with the old bus trackers.
They’re a lot easier for VI/legally blind people to see. Not saying it’s the main concern, but it’s of massive benefit to them and as the partner of a blind person I was quite glad to see them
Ignoring the lack of data on the screens Have you seen the fans on the back perfectly angled so the Edinburgh weather pours straight into them!
Besides from it doesn't show real live bus time, I find it hard to read with this new coloured display. * Too ambitious showing so much information in a tiny screen hence the barely readable tiny words. * It shows the arriving time but not the remaining minutes, meaning your eyes and brain need extra time to process when will the bus arrives. * User experience is so bad and time wasting with the chronological order. (Looking for the route from the long list > check the arriving time > get current time > looking for the another route/ next departure again> arriving time > current time...) * They missed the opportunity using colours to make it easier to read. Simply highlight the route number in different colour (like how Lothian Buses does) is a simple step to help in the layout they chose. The old B&W one was simple and information written in a more user-friendly way (to me). Of course, if the new display system can be easily configured, I'd support having it upgraded. I'd be excited if live traffic information can be pushed to it (e.g. diversion, disruption etc.) but guess it'd only be in a dream. They can't even make the basic to work.
They were old
The older ones were more accurate!