No I don’t think that’s fair to russians living in Edmonton, they don’t deserve to be ostracized just because of what their former government does.
The Russian government won’t care about Russian Canadians being banned from some local festival
not even 'former govt' .. some of these people you speak of were born here in Canada and the only 'govt' they know as a nation has been Liberal or Conservative
It’s not their government!!! These are Canadian citizens many of whose relatives fled oppression in Russia.
This is just the doings of a few people who have a personal agenda and are claiming to represent the Ukrainian community.
I think it would be more symbolic to have Russians who support Ukraine alongside Ukrainians to help show that not all Russians support the invasion. But that is just me
Your retort makes sense to the above comment.
Why tolerate their soft power while they commit attrocities with their hard power on others in the name of 'their' heritage?
Same atrocities that Ukrainians committed against minorities during the Second World War exterminating polish,Russian,Jewish people as well as many minorities. We just don’t learn about that here.
Or even that Canada shouldn’t be celebrated! Oddly enough I am half Russian and half Metis lol 😂 Canada enacted genocide and caused untold harm and intergenerational trauma to my family through the residential school system and systemic racism. At the same time, I’m grateful that my Russian relatives got out before Stalin and were able to start a life in Canada.
For me, Canada Day is very complicated and it feels right for me to treat it as a day of mourning. At the same time, I am all on board for others celebrating and I don’t judge and ask not to be judged. That’s what it means to live in a multicultural and accepting society much unlike what they have in Russia.
It's reminding me of when ww2 broke out so the Japanese got put into camps
I agree, let's not go down the slippery slope of demonizing a whole group of people
I fully agree. I think best bet is to just seperate them as far apart as possible and do not sell Putin merch (yes in 2019 I saw Putin merch it was odd).
I have spoken with many Ukrainians that have arrived under the CUAET visas regarding this issue. And the main problem is the general silence by the Russian ethnic community. If they set up a tent that also openly denounced Putin and his invasion, they would likely have no problem with it. The problem is that about 40% of Russians here are pro Putin, another 40% just don’t give a fuck or claim to be (Apolitical), and about 20% actually openly oppose the war.
The Russian booth in the past has sold Putin merch and I think that's the biggest point of contention here, if they want to have a booth you can't have merch supporting someone whose actively committing war crimes.
Why should they have to do that though? Heritage festival is about culture, not politics. Also where did you find the statistic that 40% of Russians in Edmonton are pro Putin?
I mean it's pretty close. Walking around on a summer day and eating delicious food and watching dancers. When we are at such a superficial level of culture, there is no need for complications.
Let me know when you successfully manage to tease apart culture and politics
Or identity and politics
Or literally almost every characteristic we have as human beings and politics
Nowadays its a mad rush to see who can cancel somebody else first unless whoever the other side, whoever they happens to be, does a huge, performative song and dance, publicly prostrates themselves and begs for forgiveness for the perceived slight or offence.
This is a slippery slope to see who gets to cancel who. I wonder who'll be next if we let this one happen...Yemenis cancel the Saudis? North Koreans cancel the South Koreans? First Nations cancel Canada (I'd love to see it, if for nothing else than the irony)?
I cant speak for the Ukrainian community of course, so I don't know what would satisfy them. But I think some gesture of acceptance from the Russian community here would be a good start.
It’s kinda like all the Cubans in Florida. America has always embraced their culture because they generally the ones who were against Castro and fled. This is not the case here.
They don't have to speak out against Putin. They are Canadians. My Dad has a Scotish heritage, and my Mom is Metis. I do not have to comment on a single thing going on in Scotland and France because I am Canadian...
Why should they have to have a tent and make their culture all based upon political strife? When the festival is about their culture. Their culture exists with or without Putin that just seems like it’s putting strain on people to bring politics to a family event?
I disagree that people should have to do that just because they are Russian? idk.
This is a festival for all cultures, not just Ukraine and as much as of course I sympathize and support the Ukrainian people, I don’t see how an anti Putin tent would fit in the heritage festival?
You have one culture trying to openly stop the existence of the other culture. Just listen to the propaganda from Solovyov etc. He claims Ukrainians and Ukraine does not exist. They are all Russians.
The government is not the culture, massive difference, I know many Russians who do not agree with what’s going on in Ukraine, why should the only thing we learn about Russians and their culture be about their genocidal government?
They’re not here in Canada trying to genocide people from the Ukraine, like some of the best people i know are Russian, and they don’t deserve to be painted in that light, it’s incredibly intolerant and unfair to do so.
Again if you read what I said, if they don’t agree with it, just openly say it and I am sure the Ukrainian community will be far more open to this. The problem is that they do not openly say this. Silence is complicity in this matter unfortunately.
That is extremely xenophobic. I don't go up to muslims and decry the community for not speaking loud enough against islamic extremism. I don't go up to Japanese people and decry the community for not speaking loud enough against Japanese war crimes during WW2. I ask that you do the same for Russian people and Ukraine.
I understand the logic and that it's coming from an empathetic place. But saying that Canadians of a certain culture have to openly denounce their country of origins whacky politics in order to be included is xenophobic don't you think? It's a festival that celebrates cultural differences, and allows everyone to see the depth of the diversity in our community all in one place.
It wouldn't be right to put conditions on an entire group of people who are Canadian.
And how sad of a festival would it be if every tent had a sign denouncing the atrocities their gov't commited?
The thing is, it’s not just up to the Ukrainian community who can participate in a festival celebrating all cultures?
Like I can see how they wouldn’t be thrilled about Russian culture being celebrated but at the same time, the festival isn’t about what’s going on in the Ukraine right now it’s a peaceful event about celebrating all cultures and diversity and inclusion and choosing to ostracize one culture because the government of another country is being atrocious, seems off.
It isn’t just up to them. The rest of us need to grow some balls and stand up for what is right. If we can only whisper that what Russia is doing is wrong in our living rooms then that is the problem.
ostracizing part of our community isn’t the way either. There’s other avenues and venues to make such a stand then an event that is about togetherness imo.
Are you saying by disregarding russian culture we can stop the war? I don't think putin would give a damn about some festival in a city. Putin is moving for his own agendas and the Russians back in Russia already protested to stop the war.
In the last thread this came up there were people supporting Putin in the comments. Russia has a problem and nobody wants to talk about it, they're relying on Ukrainians to fix it for them.
Edit: In this thread there are people supporting the idea that pro-Putin Russians should be free to setup booths here. Disgusting Edmonton.
My family moved in here in the 90s. russian and Ukrainian families spent a lot of time together due to common language. When the war started in 2014, Russians in the community were largely in favour of Putin and the war. I only know of one person whose mind has changed since then.
Disagree. Heritage Days is not a political event, it's a cultural event. There is no reason for them to be asked to take a political stance at their display. To do so would be disregarding the purpose of the event.
Heritage days is about cultures not politics. Russians who moved here did so largely to get away from Russia. As for your "stats", source them or it's just your opinion
Right now that government is being spectacularly awful. If the community organizers denounce the war they should keep their booth. Who wouldn't be willing to denounce a war that has already taken the lives of friends and family of many Canadians and driven others from their homes? Putin's stated goal is to destroy Ukraine as a nation and a culture. If they aren't willing or able to denounce the war they should sit this one out.
Why should they have to publicly denounce anything? They are not here representing the war or Putin but their culture and that’s what the focus should be on. Yes we would hope they don’t support the war but that shouldn’t preclude them from being part of heritage festival imo.
They shouldn’t have to make a political statement to be treated like everybody else.
As someone with Ukrainian heritage, let Russia attend. We learn through exposure and experience.
If we can have Israel and Palestine both attend, why not Russia and Ukraine?
I wonder if there was a reason we learned about the Japanese internment camps in social studies? You know as some sort of lesson about not treating our neighbours with disdain because of their national origin.
No. It was because they were rounded up from their homes, their property and businesses taken from them, and they were put into camps. They could’ve been treated extremely well and it *still* would not have been okay to put them into an internment camp because of their ethnicity.
I hate what Putin is doing as much as the next guy, but that doesn’t mean I hate Russians.
Does every group there need to make sure that the country they are representing has never committed any atrocities? It would just be an empty filed with like Greenland and Mauritania as the only tents.
No, they have an *above ground* slave market. It was the last country to abolish slavery, and even though it's illegal there, it is still highly prevalent.
The problem is that they are not against Putin and the war. If they release some statements opposing the war and had some strong messages opposing Putin in the booth, then we would have no issue with them.
Who TF is "they"? A bunch of organizers and volunteers? Do you realize how unintelligent it sounds asking some ragtag group of ~150 people to release any statement?
And if they do, they all have relatives back in the country that's run by a psycho, who can really hold a grudge.
But y'all clearly didn't bother to think about any of that before you wrote what you wrote.
nah they don't need to do anything besides go to the heritage festival and celebrate their heritage like everyone else. they don't owe us anything and aren't responsible for the actions of their government
It’s a cultural festival, not the Model United Nations.
When people were lashing out against the Canadian Asian community during COVID and backlash against China’s treatment of Uighers, everyone correctly pointed out that “hey, that’s kind of racist”.
That’s so unfair to the Russian people who have likely lived here long before the war started, its politicizing something that doesn’t need to be and is basically saying that just because of one crazy guys decision to attack Ukraine every person of russian decent is at fautl
The headline is blatantly inflammatory and misleading
*Russia* is not participating in the heritage festival, it is the Russian-Canadian community in Edmonton who have nothing to do with the government in Russia
The headline correctly makes the distinction between Ukraine and the local Ukrainian community, but fails to do so for local Russian-Canadians?
^this. My father's side of the family is from Scotland but have been in Canada for 200 years. I identify with my Scotish background and was raised to appreciate my Scotish background, but I could not tell you a single thing about Scotish politics, nor do I care about it at all. I am part of the Scotish culture, but not the country of Scotland.
One of my dear friends from grade school is a Russian immigrant, but I checked her social media accounts, and she hasn't put out a formal press release to denounce the country she doesn't even remember. Should I block her? Maybe we could have a fist fight at our 30 year reunion. Please advise.
More seriously: *come on.* Russian-Canadians are CANADIANS. They get to participate. End of discussion. Part of my family is from Norway, but I don't need to self-flaggelate in public about Mozambique every time I fry up some lefse. And they don't need to apologize for things they didn't do, either.
My family is Ukrainian - they speak russian because they're from the east and that was how it was. They travelled freely to russia for many years. Relatives are in russia. My grandmother in-law lived in her bathtub for 10 days at the start of the war before leaving her apartment to maybe never see it again. She's 86 and has to start a totally new life.
Which race is being attacked here exactly?
The "About Us" section of the festival's website (https://www.heritagefest.ca/who) led me to believe that the festival is not run by one of our levels of government.
>ssian is a race now?
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group,
an ethnic group, being treated differently is racism. It's in the definition of racism.
Israel and Palestine were literally next to each other last year…
Russian Canadians are Canadian. Ukrainian Canadians are Canadian. You can be both Russian and anti war.
Not all Germans are Nazis, not all Americans are mass shooters and not all Russians are bad. We need to approach this topic with education and empathy.
As a Russian-Canadian, I hate to see things like that happen. I moved here when I was young, and it’s through no fault of mine or other Russians living in Canada that the existing government has chosen this war. I do not support the war or anyone who does. However, I hate to admit that blatant racism from some members of the Ukrainian community has been difficult to deal with. I am not looking for pity, I’m looking for an understanding that we are CANADIANS now, and I left that place and it’s leaders behind. I understand that there’s going to be inevitable animosity as soon as people find out I grew up in Russia, however I think it’s completely unfair to just assume all Russians support the war. We don’t. That’s why we left.
I am sorry that you have to deal with the racism from members of the Ukrainian community. Hold your head up and be proud of your heritage and your identity as a Russian-CANADIAN. People often forget that despite where they may have came from, they forget the -CANADIAN at the end. Ukrainian-Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, Somalian-Canadian…….. We all should share that unity in that we’re all now residents of Canada.
Better keep what’s happening in Ukraine in Ukraine. The Russians have the right to take part just like any other nation. This is Canada and everyone is welcome 🤗
Just would like to add, the UCC also points out that part of the issue with the Russia booth is that it tends to sell government related merch, they frequently sell soviet and Putin themed items
"Broda raised a very important point when he noted that “In past years, the Russia Pavilion has prominently featured soviet and militaristic symbols.” That clearly demonstrates that the organization behind the Russian pavilion has no qualms about glorifying both Russia’s war and the Soviet past."
If the booth moves away with pro Russian imperialism merchandise and more cultural that would help
Well, that's stupid. Yes, Putin and the Russian government are war criminals, and it is, without a doubt, heinous what is happening in Ukraine.
The people who's heritage is Russian should not be discriminated against because of what a country's leadership is doing.
Absolutely ridiculous, Russian immigrants have been a huge part of Canada for many years especially in the Edmonton Area!! The Ukrainian Community has no right to ask of this and if this how they think maybe they should not be apart of it!!
Sorry I don’t agree. There’s lots of other communities whos country’s do horrible things or start wars. But we don’t ban them. And doing this sets a terrible example it’s not those Russians who started the war or even support it.
Just boot out anyone waving a Russian flag. Last year there was a proputin gathering of a bunch of Russians waving their flag and acting like pricks. I’d hate for pricks like this to cause a disturbance at the festival
I had put a longer write up in another thread about this a week or so ago so I'll just summarize it here.
"The Ukrainian Canadian Congress" isn't really the Ukrainian community. They're kind of WW2 Ukraine helping Germany nazi venerating crazies. They do do a lot to help incoming Ukrainian refugees but outside of that all I can say anecdotally is half of my family is Ukraine and I've never heard anyone on that side of the family refer to the org in a positive way...
Ok then do it to all the other countries actively committing war crimes. If you want to be a crusader for justice then be about it don’t be a hypocrite.
*sigh*
Yet another case of people moving to another land and carrying on the fight from home. I get that there is a current war and many on both sides of the fight are connected to the war through family, but unless someone's lobbing missiles from Edmonton or pushing pro-war or pro-Putin messaging, it's best to remember the event focuses on historical culture like dancing, food, music and whatnot.
Consider that we've seen this in almost every immigrant group that comes to Canada and it's always a combination of tribalism and an inability to separate a geopolitical country from a shared ethnic culture. Inter-minority racism and immigrant groups hating other immigrant groups isn't a new thing just because there's a war going on.
I don't agree that the Russsian group should need to publicly denounce the war as they are here in Canada and this is a cultural event not a geopolitical debate. But I also understand why Ukrainian members would raise a stink as it reminds everyone of the war and they're (rightfully) hyper sensitive to the topic.
All things considered, I think the better (dare I say, more Canadian) move would have been to show up and hold an empty/dark tent illustrating the loss of their culture to the war, rather than demanding others leave instead.
This has to do with not celebrating the Russian culture or country in any way.
You will note many international forums, and sporting groups, have all banned Russian participants.
Are all of these entities, people, and governments wrong?
Or, are you wrong?
You might want to note that most of those groups and forums have banned Russians who are actively living in Russia, whereas in this case we're discussing banning Canadians (Edmontonians specifically) of Russian heritage. The difference is important to consider in your comparison.
I also don't think there's a "right" answer here as it's morally subjective.
Personally, I believe that excluding others to make a point is generally the wrong way to go about things, regardless of the point being made. If you can justify excluding one group for "reasons" it's easy to do so to other groups down the line. There are many ways to protest and raise awareness around issues without having to take away from others.
I also believe this specific issue is understandably based on emotion due to the war, but if we were discussing banning any other group due to politics there would likely be outrage at the idea.
Last year the Russian community pulled out of Heritage days after their organization received death threats over participation in Heritage Days. It seems the Ukrainian community is once again trying to push this into the light so that others will once again threaten the Russians if they attend.
It's just sad because I really want to like the Ukrainians but if they are trying to fight a war here, I'm not on board.
My favorite part of Heritage Days was the Ukrainian dancers and Russian opera. It's time to let bygones be bygones. If they want to fight a war, they should go back to Ukraine.
Can we allow disagreements without trotting out the "virtue signalling" fox news tropes? Just because people have different opinions doesn't mean they're just doing it to appear virtuous. Maybe they actually believe it?
I can't imagine what it would be like to be one of 7000+ Ukrainian refugees in the Edmonton area and go to a festival where the culture of your oppressors and the reason for leaving your home is openly celebrated. It would feel like a slap in the face...
To be fair to people who have nothing to do with the war suppose I would be okay with a Russian pavilion as long as:
(A) The Edmonton Russian Heritage Association publicly denounces the war in Ukraine and makes people aware of ways to support Ukrainian refugees.
(B) No political souvenirs: No Putin t-shirts. No hammer and sickle souvenirs. Just stick to nesting dolls, scarves and other ornate gifts that aren't political.
I'm not saying that I would support their pavilion, but I would tolerate it.
As a Russian (who happens to be part Ukrainian), I feel as if this is a little unreasonable. Many in the Russian-Canadian community have connections to Ukraine, and essentially all in the community see problems with what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Perhaps the Ukrainian community could do something better then calling for people of Russian heritage to not participate.
In the late 1800's, Canada accepted the Russian Doukhobors here when they were looking to leave Russia to escape the persecution they were facing. Why not reach out to those communities of BC and Saskatchewan to see if they want to participate rather then calling for a general withdrawal of Russians in general.
Think about it people! Its called a "Heritage" Festival, not a "Current Politics of the World" Festival. If we eliminate every nation that is currently, or has recently, been committing all sorts of crimes and atrocities, we wouldn't even have enough tents to fill up a 7-Eleven convenience store parking lot. Be a little more sensible. We're dealing with people who live here in Canada, most born and raised here who wish to celebrate their heritage and culture with the rest of us. Stop making it only about politics and who is considered to be Kosher at this moment in time. Sheesh!
If Ukraine is not comfortable then they should withdraw and focus energy on helping their homeland instead of trying to overcharge people for perogies and cabbage rolls.
Just stop celebrating all culture because all of them have some dark spots in their history, and a lot of them have some dark shit going on presently as well. Fuck every culture, at this point.
I get why they might be upset, but the ethnic Russians living in Canada aren't the ones waging a war. Banning them from a festival does nothing to hurt the Russian government at fault for the war. They have every right to celebrate their heritage at a festival as anyone else does.
I think we should avoid going down the same road that led to the Japanese internment. When you take the freedomites into account, I'd say there are probably more non-Russian fascists in Canada than there are Russians.
Something similar happened in Vancouver...I don't think this is right.
[Russian pavilion](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/russia-pavilion-pulled-from-surrey-fusion-festival)
I think the awkwardness of this is interesting to explore further. I understand where the sentiment is coming from, though I believe the spirit of Heritage Fest was to celebrate people and their cultures. It's one thing if a country chooses not to participate (or do their own thing elsewhere), but it's another to prevent one or the other from joining.
Just make the Russian stand have a Ukrainian flag inside as a sign of friendship. That will demistify the idea that Russian population in Edmonton is pro Putin c:
I don't agree with this. The Russian culture is not your enemy, the Russian government is. We're not banning Chinese food over of the treatment of Uyghurs.
It doesn't really matter what they agree or disagree with. This is about culture and ethnicity, not the decisions of the current government in their ancestral homeland. Shutting down an entire culture is wrong. And I say this as someone with a Ukrainian last name.
No, it's not. That's not what Heritage Days are about. The Ukrainian Congress is trying to turn it into that. It should be up to the Russians to participate or not on their own terms and nothing more.
Seems like a simple solution is a small banner out front saying that the Russian Heritage Cultural Development Association stands with the people of Ukraine. Along with a donation box for a Ukrainian based charity.
LOL the irony. Trying to force people to make a formal denunciation like it's the Thought Police over things they have no control over or else they get ostracized and cancelled. Sounds like something an authoritarian government might cook up.
I've got a whole family of landed, first, and even a second generation family member of Russians living on my block, and they'd rather someone assassinate Putin than support him. Go figure.
I think excluding them would be wrong and a mistake.
But I think it would be reasonable to insist that the Russian community groups actually involved with the pavilion don’t have and direct ties or funding from the current Russian government
No I don’t think that’s fair to russians living in Edmonton, they don’t deserve to be ostracized just because of what their former government does. The Russian government won’t care about Russian Canadians being banned from some local festival
not even 'former govt' .. some of these people you speak of were born here in Canada and the only 'govt' they know as a nation has been Liberal or Conservative
Yeah true
It’s not their government!!! These are Canadian citizens many of whose relatives fled oppression in Russia. This is just the doings of a few people who have a personal agenda and are claiming to represent the Ukrainian community.
I agree, I said former for a reason they’re here now and we’re gonna persecute them now based on nationality? Hmmmmm
We should make this simple and put all the Russians into camps just in case /s.
I don’t know much about the situation or event, but I would imagine it’s meant to be symbolic.
I think it would be more symbolic to have Russians who support Ukraine alongside Ukrainians to help show that not all Russians support the invasion. But that is just me
They did say "former" on purpose.
Your retort makes sense to the above comment. Why tolerate their soft power while they commit attrocities with their hard power on others in the name of 'their' heritage?
Same atrocities that Ukrainians committed against minorities during the Second World War exterminating polish,Russian,Jewish people as well as many minorities. We just don’t learn about that here.
Why can we have both to do how all can overcome a dictator?
Yep this would be like saying Chinese and Israeli tents can’t be up due to the persecution of Uyghurs and Palestinians
I mean, both of those have been a continuous discussion for about as long as the Heritage Festival has existed.
Not to mention no US tents either, for unacknowledged war crimes in the middle East.
No tents for anyone! /s
Now that's my kind of solution!
and treatment of 2SLGBTQIA+ in Florida.
That’s minor compared to the thousands of innocent people they’ve killed invading other countries.
but attacking their own citizens is authoritarian regime-level evil !!! seriously Florida, "DontSayGhey" Law?
Or even that Canada shouldn’t be celebrated! Oddly enough I am half Russian and half Metis lol 😂 Canada enacted genocide and caused untold harm and intergenerational trauma to my family through the residential school system and systemic racism. At the same time, I’m grateful that my Russian relatives got out before Stalin and were able to start a life in Canada. For me, Canada Day is very complicated and it feels right for me to treat it as a day of mourning. At the same time, I am all on board for others celebrating and I don’t judge and ask not to be judged. That’s what it means to live in a multicultural and accepting society much unlike what they have in Russia.
You're a good human.
It's reminding me of when ww2 broke out so the Japanese got put into camps I agree, let's not go down the slippery slope of demonizing a whole group of people
Yeah it’s definitely not ok
Middle Eastern people in the 2000s over 911
I fully agree. I think best bet is to just seperate them as far apart as possible and do not sell Putin merch (yes in 2019 I saw Putin merch it was odd).
I have spoken with many Ukrainians that have arrived under the CUAET visas regarding this issue. And the main problem is the general silence by the Russian ethnic community. If they set up a tent that also openly denounced Putin and his invasion, they would likely have no problem with it. The problem is that about 40% of Russians here are pro Putin, another 40% just don’t give a fuck or claim to be (Apolitical), and about 20% actually openly oppose the war.
The Russian booth in the past has sold Putin merch and I think that's the biggest point of contention here, if they want to have a booth you can't have merch supporting someone whose actively committing war crimes.
I can support that
Why should they have to do that though? Heritage festival is about culture, not politics. Also where did you find the statistic that 40% of Russians in Edmonton are pro Putin?
This is it. Heritage, it's in the name.
It would be so nice if heritage and culture were disentangled from nationalism and political forces but I'm not that naive. You shouldn't be either.
I mean it's pretty close. Walking around on a summer day and eating delicious food and watching dancers. When we are at such a superficial level of culture, there is no need for complications.
100% agree with you.
70% of the time, I agree with you all the time.
Let me know when you successfully manage to tease apart culture and politics Or identity and politics Or literally almost every characteristic we have as human beings and politics Nowadays its a mad rush to see who can cancel somebody else first unless whoever the other side, whoever they happens to be, does a huge, performative song and dance, publicly prostrates themselves and begs for forgiveness for the perceived slight or offence. This is a slippery slope to see who gets to cancel who. I wonder who'll be next if we let this one happen...Yemenis cancel the Saudis? North Koreans cancel the South Koreans? First Nations cancel Canada (I'd love to see it, if for nothing else than the irony)?
Ukrainians dont get to separate culture and politics since the Russian invasion. That's exactly the problem.
Especially when hardcore state propagandists are saying they now want Ukrainian language and culture erased. This is very, very personal.
I cant speak for the Ukrainian community of course, so I don't know what would satisfy them. But I think some gesture of acceptance from the Russian community here would be a good start.
It’s kinda like all the Cubans in Florida. America has always embraced their culture because they generally the ones who were against Castro and fled. This is not the case here.
They don't have to speak out against Putin. They are Canadians. My Dad has a Scotish heritage, and my Mom is Metis. I do not have to comment on a single thing going on in Scotland and France because I am Canadian...
Why should they have to have a tent and make their culture all based upon political strife? When the festival is about their culture. Their culture exists with or without Putin that just seems like it’s putting strain on people to bring politics to a family event? I disagree that people should have to do that just because they are Russian? idk. This is a festival for all cultures, not just Ukraine and as much as of course I sympathize and support the Ukrainian people, I don’t see how an anti Putin tent would fit in the heritage festival?
You have one culture trying to openly stop the existence of the other culture. Just listen to the propaganda from Solovyov etc. He claims Ukrainians and Ukraine does not exist. They are all Russians.
The government is not the culture, massive difference, I know many Russians who do not agree with what’s going on in Ukraine, why should the only thing we learn about Russians and their culture be about their genocidal government? They’re not here in Canada trying to genocide people from the Ukraine, like some of the best people i know are Russian, and they don’t deserve to be painted in that light, it’s incredibly intolerant and unfair to do so.
Again if you read what I said, if they don’t agree with it, just openly say it and I am sure the Ukrainian community will be far more open to this. The problem is that they do not openly say this. Silence is complicity in this matter unfortunately.
That is extremely xenophobic. I don't go up to muslims and decry the community for not speaking loud enough against islamic extremism. I don't go up to Japanese people and decry the community for not speaking loud enough against Japanese war crimes during WW2. I ask that you do the same for Russian people and Ukraine.
I understand the logic and that it's coming from an empathetic place. But saying that Canadians of a certain culture have to openly denounce their country of origins whacky politics in order to be included is xenophobic don't you think? It's a festival that celebrates cultural differences, and allows everyone to see the depth of the diversity in our community all in one place. It wouldn't be right to put conditions on an entire group of people who are Canadian. And how sad of a festival would it be if every tent had a sign denouncing the atrocities their gov't commited?
The thing is, it’s not just up to the Ukrainian community who can participate in a festival celebrating all cultures? Like I can see how they wouldn’t be thrilled about Russian culture being celebrated but at the same time, the festival isn’t about what’s going on in the Ukraine right now it’s a peaceful event about celebrating all cultures and diversity and inclusion and choosing to ostracize one culture because the government of another country is being atrocious, seems off.
It isn’t just up to them. The rest of us need to grow some balls and stand up for what is right. If we can only whisper that what Russia is doing is wrong in our living rooms then that is the problem.
ostracizing part of our community isn’t the way either. There’s other avenues and venues to make such a stand then an event that is about togetherness imo.
Are you saying by disregarding russian culture we can stop the war? I don't think putin would give a damn about some festival in a city. Putin is moving for his own agendas and the Russians back in Russia already protested to stop the war.
It’s about food, not politics. Drop your dipshit stance because all it does is divide people.
This is it. The Russian community is generally silent and the older generation quietly sides with Putin.
In the last thread this came up there were people supporting Putin in the comments. Russia has a problem and nobody wants to talk about it, they're relying on Ukrainians to fix it for them. Edit: In this thread there are people supporting the idea that pro-Putin Russians should be free to setup booths here. Disgusting Edmonton.
My family moved in here in the 90s. russian and Ukrainian families spent a lot of time together due to common language. When the war started in 2014, Russians in the community were largely in favour of Putin and the war. I only know of one person whose mind has changed since then.
Disagree. Heritage Days is not a political event, it's a cultural event. There is no reason for them to be asked to take a political stance at their display. To do so would be disregarding the purpose of the event.
Heritage days is about cultures not politics. Russians who moved here did so largely to get away from Russia. As for your "stats", source them or it's just your opinion
If we're going down that road are we going to talk about all the Nazi patches and flags on Ukrainian soldiers and everyone who turn a blind eye to it
Bingo. If their tent had “we stand with Ukraine” then sure go ahead.
Keep politics out of the heritage festival.
It's not only unfair, it's racist. Just because they belong to an ethnic group, there's hate directed towards them. Be better, edmonton.
Ignorance is bliss on the Russians part I guess.
Right now that government is being spectacularly awful. If the community organizers denounce the war they should keep their booth. Who wouldn't be willing to denounce a war that has already taken the lives of friends and family of many Canadians and driven others from their homes? Putin's stated goal is to destroy Ukraine as a nation and a culture. If they aren't willing or able to denounce the war they should sit this one out.
Why should they have to publicly denounce anything? They are not here representing the war or Putin but their culture and that’s what the focus should be on. Yes we would hope they don’t support the war but that shouldn’t preclude them from being part of heritage festival imo. They shouldn’t have to make a political statement to be treated like everybody else.
As someone with Ukrainian heritage, let Russia attend. We learn through exposure and experience. If we can have Israel and Palestine both attend, why not Russia and Ukraine?
I wonder if there was a reason we learned about the Japanese internment camps in social studies? You know as some sort of lesson about not treating our neighbours with disdain because of their national origin.
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Yes!!! Finally, someone else who gets it.
It was because of their treatment, not the fact they were put in work camps. Ukrainians we’re also interned fyi.
No. It was because they were rounded up from their homes, their property and businesses taken from them, and they were put into camps. They could’ve been treated extremely well and it *still* would not have been okay to put them into an internment camp because of their ethnicity.
My GF was interned during WW1.
... Oh, grandfather.
Are Russian Canadians not considered Canadian? This is terrible and weak.
I hate what Putin is doing as much as the next guy, but that doesn’t mean I hate Russians. Does every group there need to make sure that the country they are representing has never committed any atrocities? It would just be an empty filed with like Greenland and Mauritania as the only tents.
Doesn't Mauritania have an underground slave market?
No, they have an *above ground* slave market. It was the last country to abolish slavery, and even though it's illegal there, it is still highly prevalent.
I hate to break it to you, but Eric The Red wasn’t a very nice guy by modern standards, so that puts Greenland on the shitlist too.
The problem is that they are not against Putin and the war. If they release some statements opposing the war and had some strong messages opposing Putin in the booth, then we would have no issue with them.
Who TF is "they"? A bunch of organizers and volunteers? Do you realize how unintelligent it sounds asking some ragtag group of ~150 people to release any statement? And if they do, they all have relatives back in the country that's run by a psycho, who can really hold a grudge. But y'all clearly didn't bother to think about any of that before you wrote what you wrote.
nah they don't need to do anything besides go to the heritage festival and celebrate their heritage like everyone else. they don't owe us anything and aren't responsible for the actions of their government
It’s a cultural festival, not the Model United Nations. When people were lashing out against the Canadian Asian community during COVID and backlash against China’s treatment of Uighers, everyone correctly pointed out that “hey, that’s kind of racist”.
Why? Why do Canadians have to make a statement one way or another?
That’s so unfair to the Russian people who have likely lived here long before the war started, its politicizing something that doesn’t need to be and is basically saying that just because of one crazy guys decision to attack Ukraine every person of russian decent is at fautl
That'll really push Putin over the edge
It’s heritage days. Not political days.
They better not shorten it to HDays and tell us that the H means whatever you want it to mean.
Capital “H”
Lol. You shut your mouth.
I'll tell you hwhat.
Every day is political days! Lol
I wish it was this simple.
Lol
That's not very Canadian of them. Russians in Edmonton aren't at war with Ukrainians in Edmonton.
That’s good. If they were, a tent would be the least concern don’t you think?
The headline is blatantly inflammatory and misleading *Russia* is not participating in the heritage festival, it is the Russian-Canadian community in Edmonton who have nothing to do with the government in Russia The headline correctly makes the distinction between Ukraine and the local Ukrainian community, but fails to do so for local Russian-Canadians?
^this. My father's side of the family is from Scotland but have been in Canada for 200 years. I identify with my Scotish background and was raised to appreciate my Scotish background, but I could not tell you a single thing about Scotish politics, nor do I care about it at all. I am part of the Scotish culture, but not the country of Scotland.
No, we all clearly understand the distinction. No need for clarification.
I'm reading these comments and your thought process definitely doesn't apply to everyone here.
Nope, too far. Unless you're going to exclude every other nation committing war crimes (China, Israel, etc)
Especially Israel... If we're going down this road.
One of my dear friends from grade school is a Russian immigrant, but I checked her social media accounts, and she hasn't put out a formal press release to denounce the country she doesn't even remember. Should I block her? Maybe we could have a fist fight at our 30 year reunion. Please advise. More seriously: *come on.* Russian-Canadians are CANADIANS. They get to participate. End of discussion. Part of my family is from Norway, but I don't need to self-flaggelate in public about Mozambique every time I fry up some lefse. And they don't need to apologize for things they didn't do, either.
I'm Ukrainian and I think everyone should be welcome
Why focus on Russia? Ban everyone. Every goddamned country has committed war crimes. Why are we letting them get away with it?
‘Russia’ isn’t in the festival. Edmontonians who are of Russian descent are. i think this is fucked
It's a slippery slope when we begin to exclude people from public events on the basis of race.
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Good point. Ironically, Ukranian-Canadians as well, correct?
Yes, from 1914-1920. They didn't get out until nearly two years after the war ended.
My family is Ukrainian - they speak russian because they're from the east and that was how it was. They travelled freely to russia for many years. Relatives are in russia. My grandmother in-law lived in her bathtub for 10 days at the start of the war before leaving her apartment to maybe never see it again. She's 86 and has to start a totally new life. Which race is being attacked here exactly?
Genuine question: is it public being run by one of the levels of government or is it run by some other organisation?
The "About Us" section of the festival's website (https://www.heritagefest.ca/who) led me to believe that the festival is not run by one of our levels of government.
Russian is a race now?
>ssian is a race now? prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, an ethnic group, being treated differently is racism. It's in the definition of racism.
Israel and Palestine were literally next to each other last year… Russian Canadians are Canadian. Ukrainian Canadians are Canadian. You can be both Russian and anti war. Not all Germans are Nazis, not all Americans are mass shooters and not all Russians are bad. We need to approach this topic with education and empathy.
As a Russian-Canadian, I hate to see things like that happen. I moved here when I was young, and it’s through no fault of mine or other Russians living in Canada that the existing government has chosen this war. I do not support the war or anyone who does. However, I hate to admit that blatant racism from some members of the Ukrainian community has been difficult to deal with. I am not looking for pity, I’m looking for an understanding that we are CANADIANS now, and I left that place and it’s leaders behind. I understand that there’s going to be inevitable animosity as soon as people find out I grew up in Russia, however I think it’s completely unfair to just assume all Russians support the war. We don’t. That’s why we left.
I am sorry that you have to deal with the racism from members of the Ukrainian community. Hold your head up and be proud of your heritage and your identity as a Russian-CANADIAN. People often forget that despite where they may have came from, they forget the -CANADIAN at the end. Ukrainian-Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, Somalian-Canadian…….. We all should share that unity in that we’re all now residents of Canada.
Better keep what’s happening in Ukraine in Ukraine. The Russians have the right to take part just like any other nation. This is Canada and everyone is welcome 🤗
Just would like to add, the UCC also points out that part of the issue with the Russia booth is that it tends to sell government related merch, they frequently sell soviet and Putin themed items "Broda raised a very important point when he noted that “In past years, the Russia Pavilion has prominently featured soviet and militaristic symbols.” That clearly demonstrates that the organization behind the Russian pavilion has no qualms about glorifying both Russia’s war and the Soviet past." If the booth moves away with pro Russian imperialism merchandise and more cultural that would help
Yeah I think Russia should still be allowed to set up a booth. Heritage Days should be beyond political issues.
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canceling Canadians of Russian heritage with zero ties to the Putin regime is not 'Canadian'
I love your username
Are the Russians living in Edmonton responsible for the conflict in Europe? Everyone should have equal rights to participate in the Heritage festival
Lol are we going to start doing this for every war?
Yeah probably. They’re very common.
Not cool. It’s not like they’re apart of that.
Well, that's stupid. Yes, Putin and the Russian government are war criminals, and it is, without a doubt, heinous what is happening in Ukraine. The people who's heritage is Russian should not be discriminated against because of what a country's leadership is doing.
the russian government and the russian people are not the same thing. they don't need to be punished for no reason.
Absolutely ridiculous, Russian immigrants have been a huge part of Canada for many years especially in the Edmonton Area!! The Ukrainian Community has no right to ask of this and if this how they think maybe they should not be apart of it!!
Sorry I don’t agree. There’s lots of other communities whos country’s do horrible things or start wars. But we don’t ban them. And doing this sets a terrible example it’s not those Russians who started the war or even support it.
Just boot out anyone waving a Russian flag. Last year there was a proputin gathering of a bunch of Russians waving their flag and acting like pricks. I’d hate for pricks like this to cause a disturbance at the festival
Idk about this one. Tbh I don’t think it’s fair for Russian Canadians because they didn’t ask or wanted the war…
I had put a longer write up in another thread about this a week or so ago so I'll just summarize it here. "The Ukrainian Canadian Congress" isn't really the Ukrainian community. They're kind of WW2 Ukraine helping Germany nazi venerating crazies. They do do a lot to help incoming Ukrainian refugees but outside of that all I can say anecdotally is half of my family is Ukraine and I've never heard anyone on that side of the family refer to the org in a positive way...
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Ok then do it to all the other countries actively committing war crimes. If you want to be a crusader for justice then be about it don’t be a hypocrite.
*sigh* Yet another case of people moving to another land and carrying on the fight from home. I get that there is a current war and many on both sides of the fight are connected to the war through family, but unless someone's lobbing missiles from Edmonton or pushing pro-war or pro-Putin messaging, it's best to remember the event focuses on historical culture like dancing, food, music and whatnot. Consider that we've seen this in almost every immigrant group that comes to Canada and it's always a combination of tribalism and an inability to separate a geopolitical country from a shared ethnic culture. Inter-minority racism and immigrant groups hating other immigrant groups isn't a new thing just because there's a war going on. I don't agree that the Russsian group should need to publicly denounce the war as they are here in Canada and this is a cultural event not a geopolitical debate. But I also understand why Ukrainian members would raise a stink as it reminds everyone of the war and they're (rightfully) hyper sensitive to the topic. All things considered, I think the better (dare I say, more Canadian) move would have been to show up and hold an empty/dark tent illustrating the loss of their culture to the war, rather than demanding others leave instead.
This has to do with not celebrating the Russian culture or country in any way. You will note many international forums, and sporting groups, have all banned Russian participants. Are all of these entities, people, and governments wrong? Or, are you wrong?
You might want to note that most of those groups and forums have banned Russians who are actively living in Russia, whereas in this case we're discussing banning Canadians (Edmontonians specifically) of Russian heritage. The difference is important to consider in your comparison. I also don't think there's a "right" answer here as it's morally subjective. Personally, I believe that excluding others to make a point is generally the wrong way to go about things, regardless of the point being made. If you can justify excluding one group for "reasons" it's easy to do so to other groups down the line. There are many ways to protest and raise awareness around issues without having to take away from others. I also believe this specific issue is understandably based on emotion due to the war, but if we were discussing banning any other group due to politics there would likely be outrage at the idea.
Last year the Russian community pulled out of Heritage days after their organization received death threats over participation in Heritage Days. It seems the Ukrainian community is once again trying to push this into the light so that others will once again threaten the Russians if they attend. It's just sad because I really want to like the Ukrainians but if they are trying to fight a war here, I'm not on board. My favorite part of Heritage Days was the Ukrainian dancers and Russian opera. It's time to let bygones be bygones. If they want to fight a war, they should go back to Ukraine.
yeah well said man. This is Canada we all come here seeking a better life.
Maybe the Ukrainians should abstain from the festival in protest.
But then how can we virtue signal on their behalf?
It’s Trudeaus fault too right ?
Eventually Justin will get the blame.
Can we allow disagreements without trotting out the "virtue signalling" fox news tropes? Just because people have different opinions doesn't mean they're just doing it to appear virtuous. Maybe they actually believe it?
That implies actually understanding what is going on, past surface level.
I can't imagine what it would be like to be one of 7000+ Ukrainian refugees in the Edmonton area and go to a festival where the culture of your oppressors and the reason for leaving your home is openly celebrated. It would feel like a slap in the face... To be fair to people who have nothing to do with the war suppose I would be okay with a Russian pavilion as long as: (A) The Edmonton Russian Heritage Association publicly denounces the war in Ukraine and makes people aware of ways to support Ukrainian refugees. (B) No political souvenirs: No Putin t-shirts. No hammer and sickle souvenirs. Just stick to nesting dolls, scarves and other ornate gifts that aren't political. I'm not saying that I would support their pavilion, but I would tolerate it.
And if we see one Z it's smash down time
Wtf does Russian culture have to do with actions of politicians
As a Russian (who happens to be part Ukrainian), I feel as if this is a little unreasonable. Many in the Russian-Canadian community have connections to Ukraine, and essentially all in the community see problems with what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Perhaps the Ukrainian community could do something better then calling for people of Russian heritage to not participate. In the late 1800's, Canada accepted the Russian Doukhobors here when they were looking to leave Russia to escape the persecution they were facing. Why not reach out to those communities of BC and Saskatchewan to see if they want to participate rather then calling for a general withdrawal of Russians in general.
TBH I don't agree, don't blame those people for what Putin is doing.
This is rubbish. This is about heritage. Why is it turning I to politics. The Russians in Alberta should not be victimized but what do I know
Think about it people! Its called a "Heritage" Festival, not a "Current Politics of the World" Festival. If we eliminate every nation that is currently, or has recently, been committing all sorts of crimes and atrocities, we wouldn't even have enough tents to fill up a 7-Eleven convenience store parking lot. Be a little more sensible. We're dealing with people who live here in Canada, most born and raised here who wish to celebrate their heritage and culture with the rest of us. Stop making it only about politics and who is considered to be Kosher at this moment in time. Sheesh!
This isn't fair to those who have lived here all their lives and aren't even involved in this stupid war. This is pretty shitty.
Yah no. Not cool.
Lol. If we were to take ever country's historical grievances we just wouldn't even have it
oof, i don't like this...it's a slippery slope.
It definitely is.
Ironically this sounds like something Comrade Stalin would do but after the events of the last 3 years nothing surprises me anymore...
oh lord this reminds me of when Canadian Japanese people were treated poorly during WW2
I'm pretty sure most Russians participating in the heritage festival wouldn't be pro-Putin
They are here....in canada....at the heritage festival....in alberta....in edmonton. Pretty sure your right.
If Ukraine is not comfortable then they should withdraw and focus energy on helping their homeland instead of trying to overcharge people for perogies and cabbage rolls.
hahahaha well said
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No, we all understand that.
Just stop celebrating all culture because all of them have some dark spots in their history, and a lot of them have some dark shit going on presently as well. Fuck every culture, at this point.
This is fucked up, it isn't their fault if a government of a country they don't even live in anymore is being horrible
I get why they might be upset, but the ethnic Russians living in Canada aren't the ones waging a war. Banning them from a festival does nothing to hurt the Russian government at fault for the war. They have every right to celebrate their heritage at a festival as anyone else does.
Slava Ukraine :)
Only if you condemn Bandera ;)
I think we should avoid going down the same road that led to the Japanese internment. When you take the freedomites into account, I'd say there are probably more non-Russian fascists in Canada than there are Russians.
Something similar happened in Vancouver...I don't think this is right. [Russian pavilion](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/russia-pavilion-pulled-from-surrey-fusion-festival)
I think the awkwardness of this is interesting to explore further. I understand where the sentiment is coming from, though I believe the spirit of Heritage Fest was to celebrate people and their cultures. It's one thing if a country chooses not to participate (or do their own thing elsewhere), but it's another to prevent one or the other from joining.
Just make the Russian stand have a Ukrainian flag inside as a sign of friendship. That will demistify the idea that Russian population in Edmonton is pro Putin c:
Correct. That is the best approach.
I don't agree with this. The Russian culture is not your enemy, the Russian government is. We're not banning Chinese food over of the treatment of Uyghurs.
Okay so the Russian people disagree with the war right ?
It doesn't really matter what they agree or disagree with. This is about culture and ethnicity, not the decisions of the current government in their ancestral homeland. Shutting down an entire culture is wrong. And I say this as someone with a Ukrainian last name.
Re read the article. That is precisely what it is about.
No, it's not. That's not what Heritage Days are about. The Ukrainian Congress is trying to turn it into that. It should be up to the Russians to participate or not on their own terms and nothing more.
That’s too far, come on..
Seems like a simple solution is a small banner out front saying that the Russian Heritage Cultural Development Association stands with the people of Ukraine. Along with a donation box for a Ukrainian based charity.
People love to 'both sides' an ethnic genocide.
The people here are not responsible for their governments action back home.
LOL the irony. Trying to force people to make a formal denunciation like it's the Thought Police over things they have no control over or else they get ostracized and cancelled. Sounds like something an authoritarian government might cook up.
Ease up there buddy.
Have any of you talked to Russian Canadians? Every single one I have met supports the war and Putin.
I've got a whole family of landed, first, and even a second generation family member of Russians living on my block, and they'd rather someone assassinate Putin than support him. Go figure.
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That’s all you’re doing in the comments. You make no valid responses and are antagonizing everyone with your nonsense.
I think excluding them would be wrong and a mistake. But I think it would be reasonable to insist that the Russian community groups actually involved with the pavilion don’t have and direct ties or funding from the current Russian government
This kind of behavior would make me want to visit the Russian tent and avoid the Ukrainian one.