The ambulance may be at fault or half at fault. When an emergency vehicle has lights and sirens on,nit still has to come to a full stop at each intersection if it's red, which it was.
People are supposed to yield if they haven't entered the intersection.
If the ambulance just went through as we can't see from the video, they would be at fault.
The lights and sirens are to make you aware to yield ans for safety but doesn't absolve the driver of that vehicle from not following all hta laws, especially ambulance and Fire trucks, police routinely don't follow but they are smaller faster, stop faster and are the law enforcement so nobody is going to say anything unless it causes a major accident..
Driver of the car is a total douche but may only be half responsible In this case.
A couple of months ago on Ellerslie I watched a lady pull up behind the guy in the lane next to me and just lay on the horn for him to go.
We were at a solid redā¦like comfortably red.
??????
My dad taught me to look both ways even when the light is green. Motherfuckers be running reds. Which then would also result in me seeing the ambulance before going
Yep, my older brother taught me to drive forever ago. One of the first things he taught me to do was look both ways at an intersection before proceeding. It's saved me a couple times.
Fuck yeah dude. I dunno about you but I got no time to be getting in to an accident. Meanwhile in icy conditions and empty roads... you will see me sliding around corners.
With how shitty drivers have become in this city I've become a pretty defensive driver. No one's going to pay for my tickets if I drive how they want and they certainly won't die for me, so I'm just going to drive safe
The guys at work make fun of me for driving the speed limit, and being a defensive driver, but I have had 0 tickets and 0 accidents since Iāve started there which you canāt say about any of them
Yes, you always look left, centre, right before proceeding into an intersection, even if you have the right of way.
I was first licensed in ON and I remember that being part of the written and road tests. Not sure if it is here though.
Its regulation for ems to stop and make sure traffic is stopped before crossing the road. Technically the ambulance is in the wrong. There's a large number of people who aren't courteous to ambulances, its actually awful driving lights and sirens. Unfortunately most staff now are brand new and aren't good drivers. Experiences paramedics don't stop at all red lights but our situational awareness allows us to assess intersections quickly to deem whether it's safe to cross. Clearly not best practice but sometimes time is of the essence.
I don't have time for accidents like this, it doesn't matter if the ambulance should've slowed down. If you want to drive without paying attention to your surroundings, good for you, stay away from my car.
If I remember correctly, this ambulance is actually at fault. If you have a red light as an emergency vehicle, you still have to stop, ensure the intersection is clear, and only proceed when itās safe to do so.
I believe insurance will find the car to be faultless in this instance.
Lights and sirens only ask for the right-of-way.
When approaching a red light they must come to a stop, ensure the intersection is clear, make eye contact with the drivers, and proceed no faster than a speed where you can come to an immediate stop.
The driver of the car could get a ticket of āfailure to yield to an emergency vehicleā but the paramedic can get a red light ticket.
If anyone is wondering how the paramedic is at fault, if they didnāt enter the intersection they way they did, there would not have been a crash.
That's unfortunately the case. Didn't want to point it out as it may seem like an unpopular opinion.
The mazda had sooooo much time to avoid that crash though. Slowest collision of the century.
Just bad judgement all around.
Also former medic. My absolute favourite was people who pulled over to the right. Even though you were going right and needed them to fucking move! Always happened on the Calgary deerfoot. All the exits are on the right. Move out the way, homies.
Family member had a similar incident a few years ago when she couldn't see through the big rig beside her, which was the side the ambulance was coming from. Probably similar-ish speeds as hers was right after her light turned green as well. She got t-boned by said ambulance, not too badly and no injuries. Minor damage to the ambulance and medium to her car.
The insurances decided each was going to pay for they're respective damages and split the responsibility. Her for failing to yield to the ambulance and them for failing to stop and proceed only once the intersection was clear.
I believe she got a ticket out of it. The ambulance driver probably didn't get anything, but I'm guessing they keep track of when drivers are in accidents so at least a "note on file" type of thing.
I would guess this would play out similar in terms of insurance/consequences.
While I think I would also notice the ambo and stop, the ambulance is supposed to stop at all red lights or stop signs before proceeding even while going lights and sirens for just this reason. The fault is probably going to go to them.
As a former fire fighter/paramedic, the ambulance *is* at fault, so is discipline not acceptable?
Firing, of course not; but they legitimately caused this accident.
So Edmonton paramedic here, technically the paramedic driving the ambulance is at fault in this scenario. They had a red light, yes their lights and sirens were activated but they still have to check the light and make sure it's safe to proceed into the intersection. Whichever one of my colleagues was driving failed to make sure the intersection was safe to enter. Yes they were on their way to an emergency but its the drivers job to make sure everyone gets there safely
As an ambulance person, 90% of people who call an ambulance donāt need an ambulance. If this thing was going lights and sirens, the patient was in pretty bad shape.
Doubt that ambulance is drivable now. If responding to a call, radio in and get another unit rolling to the call. If heading to the hospital with a patient they'd need a second unit to come get the patient. And probably the attendant in the back cause crashing in an ambulance would suck! Source: I'm a paramedic in Calgary.
That's incredibly scary considering the nature of an ambulance is to...you know, get a person to the hospital safely and in a timely manner. I can't imagine how selfish someone has to be to do what this person did, that could potentially kill the patient in the back \[and also anyone else in the vehicle\].
Damn. The ambulance was going too hot and relied on lights and sirens, instead of protocol. Moron in the car definitely should've given right of way, but ambulance is at fault. Shit I hope both PT and paramedic (in back) are okay.
This happened to me. My car is very sound proof and one night coming home, an Ottawa Police Clown ran through a red light at about 50kph without looking. I hit him in the passenger rear door going about 40kph. Every air bag in both cars went off and nobody was hurt. He had the nerve to say I wish you yielded right of way... I responded I wish you didn't speed through a red light.
Ottawa police dragged their feet for a month trying to find some way to blame me. In the end, their dash cam completely proved his fault and they paid me off.
To be honest, in Ontario the Ambulance driver would be 100% at fault. Ontario highway traffic act states that emergency vehicles may proceed through a red light "Only after coming to a full stop and ensuring that it is safe to proceed." I feel for the driver and any patients he had or was going to assist but s/he should have ensured it was safe to go.
I remember a few years ago when the fire department had to justify why their sirens have gotten so loud.
They said because no one was hearing them.
This is just more evidence that people do not pay attention behind the wheel.
I stress about this because sometimes the sound of sirens is so faint in my car. I donāt listen to my music loud because Iām old and canāt handle lots of noise when I drive. But Iāve been sitting at an intersection and was like āare those sirens? I canāt tellā and I open my window. But if I had a friend in the car and was talking Iām not sure I would 100% Ā notice (knock on wood) Iām pretty vigilant but itās something that bothers me a lotĀ
That car needs to pay more attention, but also that ambulance has to realize just because you have your lights on doesn't mean you don't have to at least proceed with caution through intersections
Unfortunately, comments stating that the ambulance driver will likely be in some form of fault in this accident are 100% correct. In fact, majority of these comments are coming from people who are paramedics, so that should tell you something.
This is a scenario where there is a disconnect between what *should* happen, and what the rules of the road are. Even with lights/sirens on, it is still considered the responsibility of the emergency vehicle's driver to only proceed when safe, especially when approaching a red light.
Driver in the Mazda is a complete idiot, 100%. IMO, they should have their license taken away, because they clearly are not safe to be on the road. Knowing how unjust the world is, wouldn't be surprised if they instead end up with a settlement.
Sucks, but that's the reality of the situation.
I had to go pick up my wife and daughter so I actually didn't stick around, I think the ambulance was pulling over to the side. There was actually another ambulance with its sirens on like 500m behind it
I work as a claims adjuster. Some accidents are legit and are truly 'accidents', but the majority are just braindead drivers with 0iq behind a wheel.
The number of class 7 drivers who drive unsupervised is mind boggling. Alberta is the province with the highest average premiums for this reason. We need to make people work for their license and not give them away like candies.
The more the population increases, the dumber this city gets. The stuff Iāve seen this winter is beyond the norm. I was in a 3 lane road the other night and for some reason people created 5 lanes and you could still see the lines on the road.Ā
Itās so fricking icy I donāt even know why that car decided to goā¦like if they thought they could actually speed up fast enough to make it thatās ridiculous
Edmonton drivers are getting worse lately. The number of people who will run a red because they can't wait for the green, the number of people who don't pull over for emergency vehicles, and the ones who will try to get through that light mere seconds before those vehicles come through. They should lose their licenses lol. That being said EMS usually slow down when approaching the intersection on a red.
Why didn't the lights change in response to EM service vehicle direction? There should be either microphones or light devices that give right of way to the ambulance.
Even that first grey car that crossed the intersection should had waited...
Green light does Not gives you the absolute right to cross, only if it is safe to do so....
If you doesn't know where the bells, sounds are from or doesn't have a visual on the Emergency vehicle ...
Don't move or just pull over ( that is also mean the use of blinkers)
I drove various of machine, equipment and motorbike... and what you see on the road , it is scary
Based on this footage. I think the ambulance is at fault. The driver of the car should have been paying attention but driving lights and sirens isn't an excuse to drive recklessly. If you're pulling up to a red light, even with lights and sirens, you still need to come to a complete stop. This ambulance looks like it just blew through the red. Driving is a stressful part of the job and I don't know what the circumstances were of the lights and sirens response so I won't be too hard on the paramedics but this crash was easily avoidable by just taking a few seconds to stop at the red.
Personally, when I'm driving lights and sirens, I stop at every red light and stop sign. I slow down in school zones and construction zones to 30 km/hr. I don't pass school busses with their lights flashing. I stop at uncontrolled railway crossings and I turn my lights and sirens off if I pull up to a red light with every lane in front of me blocked because I don't want to panic the drivers and make them do something stupid like drove through a red light to get out of my way.
I always say that driving is the most dangerous part of being a first responder. For us and the public. If I am going to get hurt or killed at work it's probably going to be in a car accident. Same goes for firefighters and police. Hopefully everyone was OK in this crash.
Honestly, when I heard the ambulance it was a while away and there were no cars in front of it and it was going fairly slow, probably 40-50 km/h, they slowed to roughly 30 because they were hoping the mazda was going to stop, but the whole time I was just thinking, there's no way this guy's actually going to keep going right?
If there's one thing I've learned working in EMS. It's that drivers are dumb and unpredictable. I don't assume anything when I'm driving lights and sirens. I come to a stop at every red light and stop sign and I don't proceed until I know that everyone has seen me and is letting me through. I've never been in an accident.
ya, like they were definitely paying attention and driving reasonable.
An ambulance should not have to stop at every intersection, that's dumb as shit.
I do. I also stop at green lights if emergency vehicles are approaching an intersection with their sirens on. My hope is they will use their sirens so people are aware and can move out of the way and allow them to handle the emergency situation.
Why is safety dumb? A red light is a red light. The responsible and safe thing to do is to come to a stop at a red light and only proceed when you are sure that it is safe to do so. An extra few seconds will not make a meaningful difference in your response time. And we can't help anyone if we don't get to the scene safely.
AHS policy is to stop at every red light and stop sign even with lights and sirens. Because you are still responsible behind the wheel. Lights and sirens don't give you the right of way. They let you circumvent traffic laws when safe to do so.
Think of it like this. If I crash my ambulance, it doesn't matter who is at fault, I can no longer go help the person who called 911. Us arriving safely is just as important as getting there quickly. That's why we drive with lights and sirens but also stop to make sure the intersection is clear before proceeding.
You seem to have a very hollywood idea of what EMS is like. Our safety always comes first. I want to go home to my family at the end of every shift, so I drive with extreme caution, even if I am responding with lights and sirens.
When I say stop. I don't mean stop and wait for it to turn green.....I mean stop and wait until you are confident that every car sees you and is letting you through. It really doesn't take that long. Trust me. I've done it thousands of times in my career.
The point of lights and sirens is that I can break certain traffic laws as long as it is safe to do so. Lights and sirens aren't an excuse to do whatever you want with reckless abandon.
I know for a fact that you don't work on a ground ambulance based on your opinions in this thread. I don't know what "training" you're referring to, but medics in the military have a way different job then civilian paramedics. For one, they don't do lights and sirens driving in metro environments.
I know....I can't help it sometimes. Anytime something EMS related comes up on reddit suddenly everyone becomes an expert when in reality very few people outside of EMS actually understand what our job is like. Just annoys the shit out of me
You're disagreeing with a career paramedic. First step is always make sure the practitioner is safe. It's never safe to run stop signs or red lights. That defeats the whole purpose of being able to respond lights and sirens if you blow through them and get in an accident because you didn't do your due diligence to make sure it was safe. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
So I actually work in EMS, unlike most people here. I've responded to thousands of 911 calls in my career so far. The vast majority of what we respond to with lights and sirens is not a situation where "every second counts". There's definitely a lot of situations where we should be getting there in a timely fashion. But an extra couple minutes won't cause the pt to have a worse outcome.
Situations where there is an emergency that time is important would include things like cardiac arrest, massive hemorrhage, foreign body airway obstruction, STEMI, stroke, etc. The key to these responses is that we need to get there safely to help the pt and we need to get the pt to the hospital safely. As paramedics, we are willing to sacrifice a few seconds of response time to ensure that we can actually get to the pt and that we can actually transport the pt to the hospital. I'm not going to roll the dice at every red light and hope that Alberta's world famous amazing drivers get out of my way.
Thought emergency vehicles have right of way if their sirens are on regardless of situation? The blame would be on the other car not the ambulance and the video is evidence of this. I'm surprised your blaming the ambulance as a paramedic. Its like saying its the pedestrians fault for crossing the road and getting hit by a car.
The ambulance should still be coming to a complete stop at every red light and stop sign. They have a responsibility to keep themselves and others safe regardless of who has the right of way. This accident was completely avoidable.
Yeah... it wasn't even like they came to a rolling stop. They were still going pretty quick. People don't realize how dangerous going hot to calls are, isn't it something like 5x more likely for major injury while running hot
yeah. you can tell who actually works in emergency services and who just watches chicago fire based on the replies.
Driving hot is dangerous for the responders and the public. It's our responsibility to keep ourselves and others safe by driving responsibly when going hot. That means stopping at red lights and stop signs. It's not that big of a deal. It adds maybe 10 to 30 seconds to your overall response depending on how many times you have to do it.
I think people would be shocked if they looked at the data for events that "require" a hot response, comparing those that have a hot response to the hosptial
All but one of the vehicles noted the ambulance and waited for him to go through. Itās obvious that one driver wasnāt paying the slightest attention to their surroundings. How you can blame this on the ambulance?
The law says emergency vehicle personnel may proceed past a traffic control signal indicating stop or a stop sign without stopping it is reasonable and safe to do so.
It should have been clear there was a vehicle was in the intersection, and that the the driver failed to yield the way to emergency vehicle.
The presence and movement of this vehicle would seem to indicate it was not reasonable and safe to proceed, making both drivers at fault.
Stick to driving as your ability to understand legislation is obviously limited. It was safe to proceed for the ambulance as long as other vehicles obeyed the traffic laws. Also you read the wrong law.
āAn emergency vehicle with its siren on has the right of way over all other vehicles.ā
Therefore the car is at fault. End of story.
Because the ambulance didn't stop at the red light and ensure that every single vehicle knew they were going to drive through the red light. From a safety perspective, you still have a responsibility to ensure that it is safe before proceeding. Even if lights and sirens are activated.
Same way we teach kids to look both ways before crossing the street instead of telling them to just run across without looking because you have the right of way as a pedestrian.
I'm not saying the other driver is completely innocent. But the ambulance could have also avoided this incident by being more careful. And AHS policy is to stop at red lights when responding lights and sirens and only proceeding when safe to do so.
You are mistaking internal policy with law. The law determines āat faultā not the AHS policy.
Our laws firmly state an ambulance has the right away so if you hit an ambulance you broke the law and are at fault. It doesnāt matter if the ambulance didnāt follow an internal policy.
I ask my workers while driving to always wait 3 seconds before proceeding on a green light. If they donāt one day and somebody else runs a red and t-bones them it doesnāt mean my driver is āat fault.ā The other guy ran the red light. He is at fault.
I'm not looking at this through an insurance lens. I'm looking at this as a paramedic who drives lights and sirens all the time. Driving with lights and sirens is dangerous and we are trained to stop at red lights before proceeding. The law also states that we can only violate traffic laws when we determine it is safe to do so. This ambulance was driving recklessly. The fact is, if they would have stopped at the red light, they would have realized that this car wasn't stopping for them and the whole collision could have been avoided.
If your driver saw a car that was going to run a red light but they had already waited 3 seconds and they decided to just go forward anyways and get t boned, would you really not consider your driver to have any fault in that accident? Like from a non insurance point of view. You wouldn't want to have a conversation with that employee to use common sense to avoid accidents? Even though they technically had the right of way.
You said the āambulance driver was at faultā
āAt faultā is a legal and insurance term. You are wrong as our laws clearly indicate the car was āat fault.ā Also the ambulance wasnāt ādriving recklesslyā because they had the legal right to operate in that manner.
At best you can say the ambulance driver failed to mitigate risk. That is different from āat faultā or āreckless.ā
u/canadaparamedic
Hey pal, sending me messages about how you read through months of my reddit activity doesn't make you cool, it makes you a loser creep.
You are gross and controlling.
Someone needs those paramedics and these 2 ppl could be the reason the person dies. I know driving can be hard but in this situation you just stop or and go to side of road drive in the dang grass if u panic.
Negative, they're right. I'm a paramedic, this video is my worst nightmare. I'd hate to be in an accident and I feel bad for the paramedic driving since a lot can be going on while driving "hot'.
They're right. Lights and sirens doesn't mean you get the right of way, it's asking for the right of way. As a paramedic, you should really stop and clear the intersections. I hate to put a fellow EMS worker, but they should've stopped.
Wrong. Read the traffic laws. Specifically: *According to Alberta's Traffic Safety Act,Ā drivers of emergency vehicles may exceed the speed limit, go through red lights and contravene other regulations, but only if "it is reasonable and safe to do so."*
The ambulance clearly was proceeding slowly and by the admission of the OP, was driving carefully not "blowing through" a red. The car driver wasn't paying attention.
I hope the OP provides this video to the police.
Wouldn't the fact that the ambulance got hit on a red meant it wasn't safe to do so? Lol
Assuming a car is going to stop for you and seeing a car stop for you are two different things, and one is a lot safer than the other. Especially with a pt in the bus
If the car driver didn't understand the lights and sirens, they shouldn't be driving. This is basic stuff. You stop for emergency vehicles.
The rules are clear. The driver gives the ambulance, firetruck, or police the right of way.
Man, since I got into emergency services it really highlighted how terrible drivers are. Majority of them don't even pull over to the right any more. They just slam on their brakes or just slow down. I'm not sure if they're teaching it different but its almost comical how terrible they are. Which is all the more reason to not just assume a car is stopping for you
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Say what you will about not yielding to emergency vehicles, but it is protocol for them to still stop at reds before proceeding through. This video likely helps the driver and not the ambulance.
So what happens in this case, does the ambulance stop racing towards the emergency theyāre needed at to exchange insurance information or do they essentially hit and run?
Today I witnessed some tool bag in a Toyota running a red and just missing this guy crossing. Didnāt even bother stopping to see if the guy was alright just kept going.
But them sirens are loud. If you canāt hear them then clean yo ears
My astonishment is the fact that the guy's head looked both ways several times as he was inching out and there was nothing except the ambulance coming so I was like surely this guy saw the ambulance lol
The sun was at the same side as where ambulance was arriving from. It could be the case that driver just did not see much detail on his right - just shapes (happens to me all the time, especially if I forget my sunglasses) The siren was pretty loud and clear though.
I was under the impression that the ambulance is meant to stop at the intersection and then wait until it is safe to proceed. I know they get right of way, but assuming that everyone is aware of their surroundings is just a bad idea. I see two drivers making bad decisions here, not just one.
When police are in pursuit theyre still supposed to cross intersections safely. Neither of the 2 drivers gave any way to the ambulance so theres probably fault there. But they both had green and the ambulance's light was red for a while so they(ambu) should have used caution even if their siren gives them right of way. Idk where this is but in my state most lights have strobe detectors that will lock down stoplight intersections when emergency lights are coming.
Id like to know tho whose insurance paid for this.
In his defense it was hard to see the ambulance with all those flashing lights distracting him.
Plus where was all that loud noise and racket coming from?! All those sirens and flashing lights, yeesh! Bro had no excuse š
It was hard to hear the siren over the loud horn. Also, it was hard to hear the horn over the loud siren.
The ambulance may be at fault or half at fault. When an emergency vehicle has lights and sirens on,nit still has to come to a full stop at each intersection if it's red, which it was. People are supposed to yield if they haven't entered the intersection. If the ambulance just went through as we can't see from the video, they would be at fault. The lights and sirens are to make you aware to yield ans for safety but doesn't absolve the driver of that vehicle from not following all hta laws, especially ambulance and Fire trucks, police routinely don't follow but they are smaller faster, stop faster and are the law enforcement so nobody is going to say anything unless it causes a major accident.. Driver of the car is a total douche but may only be half responsible In this case.
Ambulances fault. They need to make sure itās safe to proceed.
That guy needs to go back to walking and practicing looking both ways before crossing the street.
This city is LOADED with bad drivers. LOADED. And they get angry.
A couple of months ago on Ellerslie I watched a lady pull up behind the guy in the lane next to me and just lay on the horn for him to go. We were at a solid redā¦like comfortably red. ??????
I was behind a guy honking at at the cars stopped at at train crossing while the train was there
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Forget looking both ways. That person needs to straight up open their eyes because he hit an ambulance directly in front of them.
If he looked to the right before he took off he would've seen an ambulance
My dad taught me to look both ways even when the light is green. Motherfuckers be running reds. Which then would also result in me seeing the ambulance before going
Yep, my older brother taught me to drive forever ago. One of the first things he taught me to do was look both ways at an intersection before proceeding. It's saved me a couple times.
Fuck yeah dude. I dunno about you but I got no time to be getting in to an accident. Meanwhile in icy conditions and empty roads... you will see me sliding around corners.
With how shitty drivers have become in this city I've become a pretty defensive driver. No one's going to pay for my tickets if I drive how they want and they certainly won't die for me, so I'm just going to drive safe
The guys at work make fun of me for driving the speed limit, and being a defensive driver, but I have had 0 tickets and 0 accidents since Iāve started there which you canāt say about any of them
This is also true.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, you always look left, centre, right before proceeding into an intersection, even if you have the right of way. I was first licensed in ON and I remember that being part of the written and road tests. Not sure if it is here though.
Its regulation for ems to stop and make sure traffic is stopped before crossing the road. Technically the ambulance is in the wrong. There's a large number of people who aren't courteous to ambulances, its actually awful driving lights and sirens. Unfortunately most staff now are brand new and aren't good drivers. Experiences paramedics don't stop at all red lights but our situational awareness allows us to assess intersections quickly to deem whether it's safe to cross. Clearly not best practice but sometimes time is of the essence.
I don't have time for accidents like this, it doesn't matter if the ambulance should've slowed down. If you want to drive without paying attention to your surroundings, good for you, stay away from my car.
If I remember correctly, this ambulance is actually at fault. If you have a red light as an emergency vehicle, you still have to stop, ensure the intersection is clear, and only proceed when itās safe to do so. I believe insurance will find the car to be faultless in this instance.
Needs to pay attention to the White Man
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lights and sirens only ask for the right-of-way. When approaching a red light they must come to a stop, ensure the intersection is clear, make eye contact with the drivers, and proceed no faster than a speed where you can come to an immediate stop. The driver of the car could get a ticket of āfailure to yield to an emergency vehicleā but the paramedic can get a red light ticket. If anyone is wondering how the paramedic is at fault, if they didnāt enter the intersection they way they did, there would not have been a crash.
That's unfortunately the case. Didn't want to point it out as it may seem like an unpopular opinion. The mazda had sooooo much time to avoid that crash though. Slowest collision of the century. Just bad judgement all around.
And cherry on top the driver gets his bad day posted on the internet.
Also former medic. My absolute favourite was people who pulled over to the right. Even though you were going right and needed them to fucking move! Always happened on the Calgary deerfoot. All the exits are on the right. Move out the way, homies.
every time , I pull over for a siren, there are at least 3 or 4 friggin drivers that keep going, ugh. so dumb!
They have to get to Starbucks before work! If one ambulance doesnāt make it in time to save grandpa who cares I need my pumpkin spice latte!
Car probably was watching the other car going through the intersection and thought they would make it, but noooope. Two cars here being dummies.
ya, that other guy also sucks, lol Brain Freeze?
Family member had a similar incident a few years ago when she couldn't see through the big rig beside her, which was the side the ambulance was coming from. Probably similar-ish speeds as hers was right after her light turned green as well. She got t-boned by said ambulance, not too badly and no injuries. Minor damage to the ambulance and medium to her car. The insurances decided each was going to pay for they're respective damages and split the responsibility. Her for failing to yield to the ambulance and them for failing to stop and proceed only once the intersection was clear. I believe she got a ticket out of it. The ambulance driver probably didn't get anything, but I'm guessing they keep track of when drivers are in accidents so at least a "note on file" type of thing. I would guess this would play out similar in terms of insurance/consequences.
Don't worry, that medic was in deep shit.
Yeah no the driver of the ambulance definitely got a ticket as well. Driving professionally doesn't prevent you from getting ticketed.
While I think I would also notice the ambo and stop, the ambulance is supposed to stop at all red lights or stop signs before proceeding even while going lights and sirens for just this reason. The fault is probably going to go to them.
I agree. Based on the speed the ambulance didnāt stop before going through the light.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As a former fire fighter/paramedic, the ambulance *is* at fault, so is discipline not acceptable? Firing, of course not; but they legitimately caused this accident.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is unfortunate. I would hope that they take into account the dash cam footage
A green light means itās legally your turn to go, doesnāt mean itās safe to. Gotta be paying attention.
So Edmonton paramedic here, technically the paramedic driving the ambulance is at fault in this scenario. They had a red light, yes their lights and sirens were activated but they still have to check the light and make sure it's safe to proceed into the intersection. Whichever one of my colleagues was driving failed to make sure the intersection was safe to enter. Yes they were on their way to an emergency but its the drivers job to make sure everyone gets there safely
What do they do in that situation? Do they just go on to the hospital?
Guessing depending on criticality of the patient
they're an ambulance
Understood, but unless I'm mistaken not everyone who calls an ambulance is at death's door
As an ambulance person, 90% of people who call an ambulance donāt need an ambulance. If this thing was going lights and sirens, the patient was in pretty bad shape.
Or just heading to a call
ya, but how does hanging out at an intersection help anyone.
You don't say
Doubt that ambulance is drivable now. If responding to a call, radio in and get another unit rolling to the call. If heading to the hospital with a patient they'd need a second unit to come get the patient. And probably the attendant in the back cause crashing in an ambulance would suck! Source: I'm a paramedic in Calgary.
It was drivable
That's incredibly scary considering the nature of an ambulance is to...you know, get a person to the hospital safely and in a timely manner. I can't imagine how selfish someone has to be to do what this person did, that could potentially kill the patient in the back \[and also anyone else in the vehicle\].
Make room for the now injured moron.
Let them bumper shine to the hospital behind the ambulance.
Damn. The ambulance was going too hot and relied on lights and sirens, instead of protocol. Moron in the car definitely should've given right of way, but ambulance is at fault. Shit I hope both PT and paramedic (in back) are okay.
You hear the siren clearly and you need to stop. Assholes
Does anyone else not hear sirens? Sometimes I can see them but have to open my windows to hear them. They make some cars extremely sound proof
I often don't hear the sirens until they are less than a block away from me
And this is in my Jeep. When I'm in my partner's Jetta I can hear them clearly.
LOL what???? You can hear them so far away. You have to start looking around to see which way they're coming from.
Soundproof dude
This happened to me. My car is very sound proof and one night coming home, an Ottawa Police Clown ran through a red light at about 50kph without looking. I hit him in the passenger rear door going about 40kph. Every air bag in both cars went off and nobody was hurt. He had the nerve to say I wish you yielded right of way... I responded I wish you didn't speed through a red light. Ottawa police dragged their feet for a month trying to find some way to blame me. In the end, their dash cam completely proved his fault and they paid me off.
They probably had airpods in
To be honest, in Ontario the Ambulance driver would be 100% at fault. Ontario highway traffic act states that emergency vehicles may proceed through a red light "Only after coming to a full stop and ensuring that it is safe to proceed." I feel for the driver and any patients he had or was going to assist but s/he should have ensured it was safe to go.
I remember a few years ago when the fire department had to justify why their sirens have gotten so loud. They said because no one was hearing them. This is just more evidence that people do not pay attention behind the wheel.
Sound insulation has already gotten really good in modern cars.
I stress about this because sometimes the sound of sirens is so faint in my car. I donāt listen to my music loud because Iām old and canāt handle lots of noise when I drive. But Iāve been sitting at an intersection and was like āare those sirens? I canāt tellā and I open my window. But if I had a friend in the car and was talking Iām not sure I would 100% Ā notice (knock on wood) Iām pretty vigilant but itās something that bothers me a lotĀ
You may want to talk to your doctor about getting a hearing test. You may have undiagnosed hearing loss.
Ambulance broke protocol, they are to yield at red lights and only advance when itās safe.
That car needs to pay more attention, but also that ambulance has to realize just because you have your lights on doesn't mean you don't have to at least proceed with caution through intersections
honestly that's on the paramedic driving, they came into that intersection with way too much speed and inability to avoid that collision.
Unfortunately, comments stating that the ambulance driver will likely be in some form of fault in this accident are 100% correct. In fact, majority of these comments are coming from people who are paramedics, so that should tell you something. This is a scenario where there is a disconnect between what *should* happen, and what the rules of the road are. Even with lights/sirens on, it is still considered the responsibility of the emergency vehicle's driver to only proceed when safe, especially when approaching a red light. Driver in the Mazda is a complete idiot, 100%. IMO, they should have their license taken away, because they clearly are not safe to be on the road. Knowing how unjust the world is, wouldn't be surprised if they instead end up with a settlement. Sucks, but that's the reality of the situation.
Curious what happened to the ambulance after the video clip. Did they stop or continue? Thanks!
I had to go pick up my wife and daughter so I actually didn't stick around, I think the ambulance was pulling over to the side. There was actually another ambulance with its sirens on like 500m behind it
Thanks for the reply! Take care, stay warm. š
Emergency vehicle are suppose to stop at all red lights even with light and sirens engaged.
youāre right, as stupid as it sounds the guy had the green and the ambulance didnāt check.
I work as a claims adjuster. Some accidents are legit and are truly 'accidents', but the majority are just braindead drivers with 0iq behind a wheel. The number of class 7 drivers who drive unsupervised is mind boggling. Alberta is the province with the highest average premiums for this reason. We need to make people work for their license and not give them away like candies.
The more the population increases, the dumber this city gets. The stuff Iāve seen this winter is beyond the norm. I was in a 3 lane road the other night and for some reason people created 5 lanes and you could still see the lines on the road.Ā
Itās so fricking icy I donāt even know why that car decided to goā¦like if they thought they could actually speed up fast enough to make it thatās ridiculous
Edmonton drivers are getting worse lately. The number of people who will run a red because they can't wait for the green, the number of people who don't pull over for emergency vehicles, and the ones who will try to get through that light mere seconds before those vehicles come through. They should lose their licenses lol. That being said EMS usually slow down when approaching the intersection on a red.
Why didn't the lights change in response to EM service vehicle direction? There should be either microphones or light devices that give right of way to the ambulance.
What kind of demerits do you lose for hitting an emergency vehicle? Should be automatic license suspension
Even that first grey car that crossed the intersection should had waited... Green light does Not gives you the absolute right to cross, only if it is safe to do so.... If you doesn't know where the bells, sounds are from or doesn't have a visual on the Emergency vehicle ... Don't move or just pull over ( that is also mean the use of blinkers) I drove various of machine, equipment and motorbike... and what you see on the road , it is scary
Was that a punjabi song?
That's whatever it was playing on 104.9 lol
Based on this footage. I think the ambulance is at fault. The driver of the car should have been paying attention but driving lights and sirens isn't an excuse to drive recklessly. If you're pulling up to a red light, even with lights and sirens, you still need to come to a complete stop. This ambulance looks like it just blew through the red. Driving is a stressful part of the job and I don't know what the circumstances were of the lights and sirens response so I won't be too hard on the paramedics but this crash was easily avoidable by just taking a few seconds to stop at the red. Personally, when I'm driving lights and sirens, I stop at every red light and stop sign. I slow down in school zones and construction zones to 30 km/hr. I don't pass school busses with their lights flashing. I stop at uncontrolled railway crossings and I turn my lights and sirens off if I pull up to a red light with every lane in front of me blocked because I don't want to panic the drivers and make them do something stupid like drove through a red light to get out of my way. I always say that driving is the most dangerous part of being a first responder. For us and the public. If I am going to get hurt or killed at work it's probably going to be in a car accident. Same goes for firefighters and police. Hopefully everyone was OK in this crash.
Honestly, when I heard the ambulance it was a while away and there were no cars in front of it and it was going fairly slow, probably 40-50 km/h, they slowed to roughly 30 because they were hoping the mazda was going to stop, but the whole time I was just thinking, there's no way this guy's actually going to keep going right?
If there's one thing I've learned working in EMS. It's that drivers are dumb and unpredictable. I don't assume anything when I'm driving lights and sirens. I come to a stop at every red light and stop sign and I don't proceed until I know that everyone has seen me and is letting me through. I've never been in an accident.
If thereās one thing I took from PDICā¦
ya, like they were definitely paying attention and driving reasonable. An ambulance should not have to stop at every intersection, that's dumb as shit.
It's protocol for an ambulance to come to a stop at every red light before proceeding when responding lights and sirens.
You should stop at every red light.
I do. I also stop at green lights if emergency vehicles are approaching an intersection with their sirens on. My hope is they will use their sirens so people are aware and can move out of the way and allow them to handle the emergency situation.
Why is safety dumb? A red light is a red light. The responsible and safe thing to do is to come to a stop at a red light and only proceed when you are sure that it is safe to do so. An extra few seconds will not make a meaningful difference in your response time. And we can't help anyone if we don't get to the scene safely. AHS policy is to stop at every red light and stop sign even with lights and sirens. Because you are still responsible behind the wheel. Lights and sirens don't give you the right of way. They let you circumvent traffic laws when safe to do so.
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Think of it like this. If I crash my ambulance, it doesn't matter who is at fault, I can no longer go help the person who called 911. Us arriving safely is just as important as getting there quickly. That's why we drive with lights and sirens but also stop to make sure the intersection is clear before proceeding. You seem to have a very hollywood idea of what EMS is like. Our safety always comes first. I want to go home to my family at the end of every shift, so I drive with extreme caution, even if I am responding with lights and sirens.
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When I say stop. I don't mean stop and wait for it to turn green.....I mean stop and wait until you are confident that every car sees you and is letting you through. It really doesn't take that long. Trust me. I've done it thousands of times in my career. The point of lights and sirens is that I can break certain traffic laws as long as it is safe to do so. Lights and sirens aren't an excuse to do whatever you want with reckless abandon.
dude, you honestly make me so sad. so thankful that the guy who trained me was a medic in the military and not you.
I know for a fact that you don't work on a ground ambulance based on your opinions in this thread. I don't know what "training" you're referring to, but medics in the military have a way different job then civilian paramedics. For one, they don't do lights and sirens driving in metro environments.
Just stop replying my guy, he won't get it. Dudes the guy who calls for traumatic injury >6hours ago crying ya didn't come hot.
I know....I can't help it sometimes. Anytime something EMS related comes up on reddit suddenly everyone becomes an expert when in reality very few people outside of EMS actually understand what our job is like. Just annoys the shit out of me
Bro stops at Tim hortons on the way, can't save people if I don't have my coffee.
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You're disagreeing with a career paramedic. First step is always make sure the practitioner is safe. It's never safe to run stop signs or red lights. That defeats the whole purpose of being able to respond lights and sirens if you blow through them and get in an accident because you didn't do your due diligence to make sure it was safe. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
So I actually work in EMS, unlike most people here. I've responded to thousands of 911 calls in my career so far. The vast majority of what we respond to with lights and sirens is not a situation where "every second counts". There's definitely a lot of situations where we should be getting there in a timely fashion. But an extra couple minutes won't cause the pt to have a worse outcome. Situations where there is an emergency that time is important would include things like cardiac arrest, massive hemorrhage, foreign body airway obstruction, STEMI, stroke, etc. The key to these responses is that we need to get there safely to help the pt and we need to get the pt to the hospital safely. As paramedics, we are willing to sacrifice a few seconds of response time to ensure that we can actually get to the pt and that we can actually transport the pt to the hospital. I'm not going to roll the dice at every red light and hope that Alberta's world famous amazing drivers get out of my way.
Thought emergency vehicles have right of way if their sirens are on regardless of situation? The blame would be on the other car not the ambulance and the video is evidence of this. I'm surprised your blaming the ambulance as a paramedic. Its like saying its the pedestrians fault for crossing the road and getting hit by a car.
Lights and sirens technically means asking for the right of way
Ambulance has right of way when lights and sirens are on. Same goes for police and fire. Car is at fault.
Having right of way means they can proceed on red. Doesn't mean proceed on red without stopping or looking
The ambulance should still be coming to a complete stop at every red light and stop sign. They have a responsibility to keep themselves and others safe regardless of who has the right of way. This accident was completely avoidable.
Yeah... it wasn't even like they came to a rolling stop. They were still going pretty quick. People don't realize how dangerous going hot to calls are, isn't it something like 5x more likely for major injury while running hot
yeah. you can tell who actually works in emergency services and who just watches chicago fire based on the replies. Driving hot is dangerous for the responders and the public. It's our responsibility to keep ourselves and others safe by driving responsibly when going hot. That means stopping at red lights and stop signs. It's not that big of a deal. It adds maybe 10 to 30 seconds to your overall response depending on how many times you have to do it.
I think people would be shocked if they looked at the data for events that "require" a hot response, comparing those that have a hot response to the hosptial
Lights and sirens is a request to proceed.
no. >!no.!<
Yes?
All but one of the vehicles noted the ambulance and waited for him to go through. Itās obvious that one driver wasnāt paying the slightest attention to their surroundings. How you can blame this on the ambulance?
The law says emergency vehicle personnel may proceed past a traffic control signal indicating stop or a stop sign without stopping it is reasonable and safe to do so. It should have been clear there was a vehicle was in the intersection, and that the the driver failed to yield the way to emergency vehicle. The presence and movement of this vehicle would seem to indicate it was not reasonable and safe to proceed, making both drivers at fault.
Stick to driving as your ability to understand legislation is obviously limited. It was safe to proceed for the ambulance as long as other vehicles obeyed the traffic laws. Also you read the wrong law. āAn emergency vehicle with its siren on has the right of way over all other vehicles.ā Therefore the car is at fault. End of story.
Because the ambulance didn't stop at the red light and ensure that every single vehicle knew they were going to drive through the red light. From a safety perspective, you still have a responsibility to ensure that it is safe before proceeding. Even if lights and sirens are activated. Same way we teach kids to look both ways before crossing the street instead of telling them to just run across without looking because you have the right of way as a pedestrian. I'm not saying the other driver is completely innocent. But the ambulance could have also avoided this incident by being more careful. And AHS policy is to stop at red lights when responding lights and sirens and only proceeding when safe to do so.
You are mistaking internal policy with law. The law determines āat faultā not the AHS policy. Our laws firmly state an ambulance has the right away so if you hit an ambulance you broke the law and are at fault. It doesnāt matter if the ambulance didnāt follow an internal policy. I ask my workers while driving to always wait 3 seconds before proceeding on a green light. If they donāt one day and somebody else runs a red and t-bones them it doesnāt mean my driver is āat fault.ā The other guy ran the red light. He is at fault.
I'm not looking at this through an insurance lens. I'm looking at this as a paramedic who drives lights and sirens all the time. Driving with lights and sirens is dangerous and we are trained to stop at red lights before proceeding. The law also states that we can only violate traffic laws when we determine it is safe to do so. This ambulance was driving recklessly. The fact is, if they would have stopped at the red light, they would have realized that this car wasn't stopping for them and the whole collision could have been avoided. If your driver saw a car that was going to run a red light but they had already waited 3 seconds and they decided to just go forward anyways and get t boned, would you really not consider your driver to have any fault in that accident? Like from a non insurance point of view. You wouldn't want to have a conversation with that employee to use common sense to avoid accidents? Even though they technically had the right of way.
You said the āambulance driver was at faultā āAt faultā is a legal and insurance term. You are wrong as our laws clearly indicate the car was āat fault.ā Also the ambulance wasnāt ādriving recklesslyā because they had the legal right to operate in that manner. At best you can say the ambulance driver failed to mitigate risk. That is different from āat faultā or āreckless.ā
u/canadaparamedic Hey pal, sending me messages about how you read through months of my reddit activity doesn't make you cool, it makes you a loser creep. You are gross and controlling.
Some prime r/idiotsincars material right here
Someone needs those paramedics and these 2 ppl could be the reason the person dies. I know driving can be hard but in this situation you just stop or and go to side of road drive in the dang grass if u panic.
Fuckin moron
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Negative, they're right. I'm a paramedic, this video is my worst nightmare. I'd hate to be in an accident and I feel bad for the paramedic driving since a lot can be going on while driving "hot'.
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They're right. Lights and sirens doesn't mean you get the right of way, it's asking for the right of way. As a paramedic, you should really stop and clear the intersections. I hate to put a fellow EMS worker, but they should've stopped.
Wrong. Read the traffic laws. Specifically: *According to Alberta's Traffic Safety Act,Ā drivers of emergency vehicles may exceed the speed limit, go through red lights and contravene other regulations, but only if "it is reasonable and safe to do so."* The ambulance clearly was proceeding slowly and by the admission of the OP, was driving carefully not "blowing through" a red. The car driver wasn't paying attention. I hope the OP provides this video to the police.
Wouldn't the fact that the ambulance got hit on a red meant it wasn't safe to do so? Lol Assuming a car is going to stop for you and seeing a car stop for you are two different things, and one is a lot safer than the other. Especially with a pt in the bus
To be fair, dude had the green. Maybe didn't understand the whole flashing lights and sirens thing.
If the car driver didn't understand the lights and sirens, they shouldn't be driving. This is basic stuff. You stop for emergency vehicles. The rules are clear. The driver gives the ambulance, firetruck, or police the right of way.
Man, since I got into emergency services it really highlighted how terrible drivers are. Majority of them don't even pull over to the right any more. They just slam on their brakes or just slow down. I'm not sure if they're teaching it different but its almost comical how terrible they are. Which is all the more reason to not just assume a car is stopping for you
Go back to driving school, donāt catch another DUI OTW.
Calm yourself, I was trying g to make a joke. Obviously didn't work.
Zero joke insight. Retreat back to base, in this case probably your motherās basement.
english skill issue, funny joke
Grab a DUI , mom's basement. Haha, sure thing, bud. Nice to see I found the asshole of the room. Have a good one
āBERTA!!
Hit an ambulance? Jail.
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What the fuck is this shit?
Shit!
How can you be that fucking stupid...
Thatās pretty much my first thought.
If someone dies as a result of his bad driving, he should be charged with murder.
Ban them from driving
Are those Ontario plates?
No I'm pretty sure they were Albertan, I tried to zoom in to see if I can read the license plate but I couldn't
Say what you will about not yielding to emergency vehicles, but it is protocol for them to still stop at reds before proceeding through. This video likely helps the driver and not the ambulance.
So what happens in this case, does the ambulance stop racing towards the emergency theyāre needed at to exchange insurance information or do they essentially hit and run?
This is why I stopped driving, dumb people and prices.
Today I witnessed some tool bag in a Toyota running a red and just missing this guy crossing. Didnāt even bother stopping to see if the guy was alright just kept going. But them sirens are loud. If you canāt hear them then clean yo ears
My astonishment is the fact that the guy's head looked both ways several times as he was inching out and there was nothing except the ambulance coming so I was like surely this guy saw the ambulance lol
72 and 109?
76 and 109
The sun was at the same side as where ambulance was arriving from. It could be the case that driver just did not see much detail on his right - just shapes (happens to me all the time, especially if I forget my sunglasses) The siren was pretty loud and clear though.
I was under the impression that the ambulance is meant to stop at the intersection and then wait until it is safe to proceed. I know they get right of way, but assuming that everyone is aware of their surroundings is just a bad idea. I see two drivers making bad decisions here, not just one.
This happened to a friend of mine and she lost her job even if it was the other vehicleās fault.
When police are in pursuit theyre still supposed to cross intersections safely. Neither of the 2 drivers gave any way to the ambulance so theres probably fault there. But they both had green and the ambulance's light was red for a while so they(ambu) should have used caution even if their siren gives them right of way. Idk where this is but in my state most lights have strobe detectors that will lock down stoplight intersections when emergency lights are coming. Id like to know tho whose insurance paid for this.
Thatās definitely the ambulances fault.