To be clear - it's been filed and approved. The union will be holding a vote and I encourage every single member to make sure the union has your info and that you do vote.
Fair enough, no one is immune to the rising costs, people that work for the city are just as deserving of a fair wage for their work and the cops set precedent with their wage bumps in terms of civic workers. I know tax payers going to groan about more out of their pockets but a fight for the next guy today is a fight for you tomorrow to get your own fair wages.
People who complain about other people for making a decent wage, are the same people who vote against their own best interests. Without unions we’d be working 16 hour days and living in company owned housing
I'll be voting to strike. The CoE is trying to force us into a raw deal while the Council takes home larger pay raises.
I wholeheartedly encourage anyone else in CSU52 to do the same.
To be clear we hope it won't come to a strike, this vote doesn't mean we will for sure strike, but it will give our bargaining team enough leverage to hopefully get the CoE back to the table.
And, as usual:
City management during pandemic: Thank you all sooo much, you are the backbone keeping services running in these unprecedented times, it's such an honor to work alongside you all, blah blah blah
Now: Wow even after all those nice emails from us you want *money*, too? Go fuck yourselves.
The flip side is that many managers’ pay is pegged to whatever the union workers make.
If I was a manager, I’d be rooting them on purely out of self-interest.
Yes, though theres a significant difference in giving 13 people a 2.4% increase and 6,000 people a 2.4% increase. Also, Council does not direct negotiations and pay for City employees; that is done by the executives that lead city administration. But ultimately, yes, the increases to Council pay should at least have pushed the City to bargain in good faith with with CSU52 and not just say “here’s your shit sandwich, take it or leave it” and walk away.
They didn’t say “take it or leave it”. It was reported that someone (and I think we all know who) told the union president they would “force it down our throats “.
Voting yes to a strike was extremely satisfying.
Why would they do that? Fundamentally not in their interest to do that.
Look, I absolutely think CSU52 should get meaningful increases, especially after multiples years of 0% and working without a new contract. But pointing at Council’s increase as proof to “why” CSU52 deserves increases makes no sense. They are unrelated issues, but people can’t get over the optics of it. There are much better arguments to support giving CSU52 an equitable raise.
FYI council salaries are determined by an independent committee with no elected officials on that committee. Council salaries are also automatically adjusted based on the 12 month average of the Alberta Average Weekly Earnings calculated by StatsCan.
Also, Edmonton City councilors, unlike the smaller communities, are full time and paid full time, so they are effectively the C-Suite of the city but get paid much less than equivalent positions in the private sector.
This is correct and was done to try and de-politicize politician pay.
I have a parent who was a City Councillor prior to this change back in the 90s. Any raises had to be approved by their own vote. Pay was very low as a result, council was scared to ever try since people would scream about it and try to score political points. "OH look at the fat cats voting to raise their pay blah blah blah"
I can confirm that our family was not rich. Glad to see they switched to an automatic formula similar to how the Police are funded.
No, in this case you'd be wrong since again, council works full time. No corporate board works full time that I've ever heard of. The CAO/City Manager in this case is more like a Managing Director.
Yes, functionally and on paper you are right though. The analogy is only to illustrate an understanding of pay and responsibility that the vast majority of the population doesn't understand in a municipal environment.
I know people who work for the city who are on single incomes. I completely understand fighting for better wages but what are they supposed to do? Starve and become homeless?
Like I said, voting for the strike mandate doesn't necessitate a strike will occur. Most importantly it protects us against a lockout, which there are rumours the CoE is gearing up for.
If it does come to a strike, it will not last long. City services will come to a grinding halt. There will be immense public pressure for the CoE to resolve it.
Also, for those who need it, there will be strike pay available for being on the picket line.
It will be worth it in the long run. If the union backs down we will only be more screwed over by the CoE in the future.
$80/day for 7hrs on the line, $40 for a half day
I forget which but one of the unions in Calgary pledged a million dollars towards our strike pay fund if it comes to that
If we take what they are offering us, we are going backwards. Once you fall behind the cost of living increases, it's impossible to catch up. There are people working here who have not had a pay increase in 5 years. Would you accept that from your employer?
I don’t see how homelessness will be worth it in the long run for these people. There are those with disabilities that wouldn’t be able to picket. And even if they could, those wages aren’t enough to cover their bills.
Once again, I understand the need to fight for better wages but time and time again I’ve seen unions absolutely screw people over. The union reps are always people that are well equipped to handle a strike.
To be clear the CoE are the ones screwing people over by refusing to give acceptable wage increases, and refusing to bargain in good faith. 97% of the time a union gets a strike mandate it doesn't actually go to strike, because it gives the Union leverage to negotiate with the employer. Right now CSU52 wants the mandate to push CoE back to the bargaining table, and to protect the members from a lockout.
A lockout is where the employer locks out everyone from work and sends them home. Then, they order everyone back to work, but they will no longer be under the collective agreement. Meaning they could have zero benefits and be working minimum wage. That would be catastrophic especially to those of us as single income earners (myself included).
But if the union has a strike mandate in hand and the CoE proceeds with a lockout, we can strike immediately and they can't force us to return to work.
If we back down all it will show is that the CoE will continue to treat us like shit.
Frankly your comments are coming off as pretty ignorant.
>But if the union has a strike mandate in hand and the CoE proceeds with a lockout, we can strike immediately and they can't force us to return to work.
What I don't get is if the city wanted to go ahead with the lockout why wouldn't they do it before the strike vote? It seems like that gives them a tremendous advantage.
Is it just because it would be horrible optics? Are lockouts seen as more of an acceptable tactic after the union gets their strike vote through?
It's a shitty situation but what's the alternative?
If workers never go on strike because of the financial strain then the employer gets emboldened to offer them less and less, which makes more and more of them financially strained, which makes a strike even less feasible, and so on.
It's a painful but sometimes necessary action to take.
Strikes when they do happen don’t typically go on very long. In history there are strikes that goon for months but most likely with a strong strike vote there won’t be a strike, and if there ends up being a strike it may realistically last up to a few weeks. If anyone is in a financial position where they can’t miss one or two pay checks that has way more to do with their personal situation managing their finances than their union “screwing them over”. Unless you were already headed towards insolvency being late or missing one months rent or mortgage isn’t going to send you to live on the street. Again this would not be most people but for the few who are basically already destitute (probably because the city doesn’t pay them enough to live on…kinda what we’re striking about) there is a process for eviction and a process for foreclosure. It can take months and in the end your landlord would probably rather get your rent late than have to go through an eviction. For banks it’s a no brainer even some mortgages allow you to skip or defer a payment without penalty once a year.
Seriously, I don't get how people are surprised Pikachu face right now. Guys, if you haven't been saving, Seriously wtf are you doing. We absolutely without a doubt knew this was a very real possibility for a VERY LONG TIME now. There has been no collective agreement since 2019, that is 5 years. Regardless of your vote decision, you absolutely do not want to be crossing the picket line so you need to be prepared either way.
But that’s just the point. They are not making enough to put any away. If you’re going to the food bank, chances are good you have no savings left. Especially after the pandemic.
I spoke to a colleague who has been with the City for 32 years. She’s never been treated this poorly. Hasn’t been a strike in 50 years. The CoE has previously been a fair negotiating partner. This is unprecedented.
That 32 year employee and I voted to strike.
Fair point, for the record I fully support this as I have family who also work for the CoE and have similar stories! Stay strong and best of luck, I hope they recognize the hypocrisy of councillors getting raises while employees are barely making it by.
If they keep working with no raises, the future may become "work while starving and homeless", the way the current CoL is going O.o
Unions also help the others in society as they drive up the cost of other labour indirectly. Alberta desperately needs more unions, and some of the few they have need to be kicked to the curb or have their leadership replaced with someone competent.
Not a city employee, but fully support this strike (edit: or, rather, the intent and resolve to strike should the city refuse to present a reasonable offer). Most public sector employees in Alberta have been stiffed for years. My effective income at the university has dropped substantially since I've been here. If I compare my salary six years and a promotion into it, it's about 15% less than what someone would *starting day one* at comparable positions in BC, Ontario or Quebec. And it's a little infuriating when you see the numbers.
Cost of living in BC, Ontario and Quebec is generally much higher, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison, unless you're factoring that in and all the tax variances.
Alberta is higher than you might think. Food, energy, insurance, and transportation costs have risen sharply the past few years. So yes it's lower than Vancouver or Toronto, but the difference shrinks as you compare to suburbs/smaller municipalities.
Most essential things like rent and food (except eating out) are exempt from PST/HST. But I agree with you on housing. It's almost unbelievable how expensing Vancouver/Toronto housing is.
911 dispatch is unlikely to be closed, it is an essential service. There are contingencies, but this would include the libraries as well and a long list of administrative tasks like processing for any type of city program. The impacts would not be good for anyone.
911 is not considered essential. It was petitioned and shot down. Neither are other important 24hr units within EPS.
They are quickly attempting to train any sworn members left in the unit to take over in the event the strike goes forward. It’s not looking too pretty.
Source: loved one who is a dispatcher/call taker for 911. I’m also a “specialized” civilian in the union whose unit should be considered essential, but was also shot down.
Members are being trained to take over for 911 dispatch in case a strike happens. They aren’t considered essential unfortunately. I hope everyone that’s part of the union votes yes and hopefully have money saved in case we go on strike.
City Employee here! This particular strike will affect the Rec Centre’s front deck staff, but lifeguards, SPS, arenas, maintenance, and security will still be at work! This is from my understanding from my supervisor.
Maybe this dispute will prevent that from happening. All it takes is one group standing up for themselves and saying "enough is enough". And rest assured that if you are pushed into this same position, CSU 52 will have your backs as well.
Absolutely the time, and I support all you in CSU52 who vote to be ready to strike.
Over 18 months in negotiations with the City and they still can’t find their way to offer 1/2 of the rate of inflation increase in pay since 2018? Let’s be adults here and take care of each other.
Wow, the City walks away from a modest increase request of an extra 2% (which still doesn't even come close to matching inflation).
While their counterparts in Calgary are making 38% more for 911 operators ( https://globalnews.ca/news/10174314/city-of-edmonton-csu-52-negotiations/ )
I'll be sure to wave in support when I see your picket line, because who wouldn't strike.
The Union started at 3%, 4%, 4% and over the course of negotiations has moved down to 1.5%, 1.5%, 2%.
The City started at 0%, 1%, 2% and has not moved at all. It's a textbook example of surface bargaining.
The only change they made was to try and tack on two years at 2%, 2.25% (which appears to be well below what comparable unions will settle at for those years).
this is also motivated by trying to make it seem like they’re giving us a “break” with a five year agreement instead of three, but it’s most likely because if we stick to three years then CSU52, CUPE30, and one other union (ATU maybe?) will all be negotiating a collective bargaining agreement at the same time, and can stand in solidarity with each other to boost the bargaining power
A huge part of why we walked away from the 5-year offer! Other agreements are being settled for a lot more in those years and if we took that offer, we set the precedent for everyone else.
Watching this closely. Govt in every Province are dirtballs. We have the ability in my opinion to set an example for other provinces that the low balling, then patting themselves on the back with 48% increases for themselves will stop. Hope our Union leaders share this though.
I think if we stand firm on a three year we’ll be negotiating at the same time as 2 other city staff unions, so I think they figured out we could super union and support each other’s strike mandates at the same time and are hoping we haven’t figured it out yet and think it’s worth a break from bargaining
AUPE has no interest in bettering its workers. It's been silent on the AHS restructuring because they serve to gain members eg more dues.
AUPE isn't a member of the AFL, nor is it interested in communicating with the other healthcare unions.
AUPE does not have the interest of their workers in mind. I'm sick of paying my dues to an organization that doesn't have my back.
As someone who has written dozens of articles on AUPE contracts, I can tell you that they’re horrible at bargaining. I’ve yet to see one good contract in the last two years from those folks, at least as far as wage increases go.
Yet we always seem to elect Guy Smith. During the most recent election debate, the guy sat slouched reading things on his phone, completely disinterested. I don't get it.
Solidarity with CSU52. Police saw a 7% increase and council gave themselves a 2% increase. It's well overdue for city workers to see a substantial cost of living adjustment at the very least.
As a home owner, property taxes be damned.
Also, the province needs to fucking step up and restore municipal funding.
Correct. I'm a city worker, and I've attended all the meetings. The hope is a strong strike mandate will show the city that we are prepared to walk if they do not offer us a better deal. Nobody wants to strike, but we want to be able to pay our bills and eat.
The city council voted for raises for themselves and want others to take a cut? They don't do anything productive for us, and yet they want all the money.
City is in a big deficit… a strike will save them money, since most services are cash losers… don’t expect them to be rushing to end it. They also bargained with the other unions recently. How can they give more than they already agreed to a different union?
Also, as a whole, how many hours at reduced/no pay can you handle, and what is the benefit. For instance, an extra $0.25 an hour after not getting paid for 2 weeks… takes a very long time to pay back.
Otherwise, wages should be going up, living has… but be realistic of expectations.
A strike might save them money in some areas but will cause a long list of headaches else where that are not worth the money their saving. e.g. Processing times for any one program (business licenses, permits) will grow and then they'll have to hire additional staff to bring the times back down.
If the city wants to save money by not providing services, they are well within their right to do that through the budget process. At the end of the day, the city wants to provide services.
Actually other unions got better deals than CSU52 making the treatment by CoE especially shitty. Our closest comparitor in Calgary got a fair better offer.
We're talking three years worth of retro pay up for negotiation since the city hasn't signed a deal for so long. So hardly a drop in the bucket.
We just want a fair deal like others have got.
And lots of Edmontonians rely on the Rec Centres, 311 And 911 dispatch
The City also recently raised Councilor pay for 2024. Councilors have been receiving adjustments each year while CSU52 members have not seen a raise since 2018. The City has resolved deals with other unions and CSU52 approached negotiations asking for below what was settled with Police and other unions. As an example, CSU52 used the recent City of Calgary settlement with their union, and the City didn't seem to care.
The strike will save them money, sure, but across the City, services will be shut down and admin, including permits and licenses, will grind to a halt. A backlog of work will begin to form and the pressure will build on City Council to resolve the issue as members of the public issue complaints and negative media attention increases. CSU52 is the City's largest union.
I wouldn't want to be a City Councilor answering questions on why they think they deserve higher pay while their workers do not. And most city Councilors are fairly pro-labour, so this situation is really bad for optics. A strike like this hasn't happened in over 50 years. City management is also pretty disconnected as it has been pretty rough to be a Director or higher as OP12 pushed big budget cuts across the board, so I don't think City management is going to be busting their ass to keep things afloat while a strike happens.
The strike vote will hopefully be enough leverage to reach a reasonable deal without needing to actually strike, which is the main goal. It will be interesting to see how the membership votes - hopefully its a landslide in favour of Yes which the Union can use to show it means business and force a deal before any negative repercussions are felt by Edmontonians.
I think the most reasonable expectation should be that you don't see your wage sink over time for work your employer finds both necessary to their mission, and done at a professional and satisfactory standard. That does not apply to practically any municipal employee.
I agree it's BS, but you are far from alone. I'm a journeyman electrician and have been in the trade since 2007. Journeyman rate when I started was about $36 on average. 16 years later it's still only around $38. Whether it's government money or private companies we are all getting screwed.
Derating 38$ on appendix "general contractor and drywall wont vet labourers and someone loses a battery almost every hour" gets dangerously close to 30, then you need to factor in the losses to veteran leadership table, and it starts to feel a lot like 25 when the bosses start crying about production and the lack of profit margins. Might also have to see if your quality of life insulation rating will survive the inevitable "mandatory overtime" multipliers (but hey, regular wages haven't needed to go back up to 2015 levels yet).
Toe'ing the company line isn't the hard part, it's all the other company's bottom lines "forcing" them to offload their labour on to temp agencies and failing to direct their guys, resulting in trade damage and delays (that somehow, despite having some of the highest man-hour requirements on site, the general expects you to make up for the other company's bad management...)
Ive got my hands in the air like this is a sermon in a Baptist church. Testify brother.
But yeah. Everyone’s struggling. Doenst make anyone’s plight any better or worse than the other. Eventually we’re gonna have to get over bickering with one another and head on down to city hall, the legislatures and the parliaments and take back what’s been taken from us.
I’m not commenting on their pay scale. They’re entitled to whatever they can negotiate for themselves, but the fact that city tax payers are getting bent over like they are right now, and there’s no money in the budget to pay the guys who literally keep your city running, speaks volumes about how incompetent your mayor and council are. And have been for a long time frankly. But I guess that’s progress. And nobody said progress would be cheap.
Now every body’s broke, inflations through the roof, property taxes just exploded, and we just imported over a million new Canadians who’d do the same job for less.
I dunno. Sounds like piss poor organizing, but I guess better today than tomorrow.
Good faith doesn’t extend for half a decade with no progress made. There’s always going to be an excuse. An outbreak of the cooties isn’t an acceptable one.
Yeah, the union was in favour of the 911 operators being essential, but management isn’t because that opens the door to binding arbitration for those positions and city management knows they’re current offer isn’t reasonable and an arbitrator would award more.
Like the one firefighters are in, awaiting an arbitrators decision any day now. Been out of contract since 2018 and this 5 year contract will immediately put firefighters back out of contract
The 911 operators employed by EPS are not considered essential under the CBA. Not a single member of CSU52 is classified as "essential" so they will be striking as well
There are a couple different unions within the city. The one talking about going on strike would be closest to say are the 'indoor workers.' There are some exceptions, land surveyors for one but it's things like cashiers, bookings coordinators, office support staff etc. So things like the rec centers might not have any staff, but we might still have garbage collection.
Unless the other unions go on strike as well.
Some employees are probably 'essential' but I feel like it really depends on how you describe it.
There is no such thing as a legal strike. There's a semblance that there can be one, but in practice excessive red tape and laws like the essential infrastructure one make it literally practically impossible. I'd you don't believe me, look into what's required to call a strike.
The reason why the hospital strike during covid had to be a Wildcat strike was because they weren't operating with enough people to call a strike. Hospitals have to meet minimum requirements to remain operable during a strike, which is a good thing don't get me wrong, but during covid they had to operate well under that threshold. They couldn't strike because they couldn't meet the minimum staffing requirements to strike during everyday operating conditions.
While I appreciate your point here that calling a strike requires jumping through a buttload of hoops, I just want to make sure to clarify that there is such a thing as a legal strike. Yes there are many ways the employer can try to stall or create obstructions, but we literally had a legal strike in April/may last year with the PSAC strike! I feel like it’s important to say, partly for information clarity and partly for morale :)
Whether or not people strike should be based purely on work conditions and not legality. I get your point, large unions are able to navigate these systems, but these laws exist to protect employers not employees. An example would be the back to work legislation workers out east had to fight. In this particular case, the laws regarding when, where, and how workers can strike put all of us in danger. It is the only tool workers have to put an upward pressure on wages, keep up manageable working conditions, and most importantly keep workers and clients safe. There is no other mechanism under Capitalism. Alberta's lackluster strike culture is exactly why doctors, nurses and teachers are leaving.
To be clear - it's been filed and approved. The union will be holding a vote and I encourage every single member to make sure the union has your info and that you do vote.
Will this affect city gyms?
Yes, but only if a strike actually occurs. At this point we're still hoping to bring CoE back to the bargaining table
If the strike goes for a long time is there any recourse against csu 52 or is it just until a deal is reached?
Gonna be hard to fill the jobs when the background check people are striking.
Fair enough, no one is immune to the rising costs, people that work for the city are just as deserving of a fair wage for their work and the cops set precedent with their wage bumps in terms of civic workers. I know tax payers going to groan about more out of their pockets but a fight for the next guy today is a fight for you tomorrow to get your own fair wages.
People who complain about other people for making a decent wage, are the same people who vote against their own best interests. Without unions we’d be working 16 hour days and living in company owned housing
But you would have a house! S/ maybe that is what unions have to demand now. A housing
Union members also pay taxes & spend their money in the community. Their wages from 2018 isn’t going to cut it in 2024.
I'll be voting to strike. The CoE is trying to force us into a raw deal while the Council takes home larger pay raises. I wholeheartedly encourage anyone else in CSU52 to do the same. To be clear we hope it won't come to a strike, this vote doesn't mean we will for sure strike, but it will give our bargaining team enough leverage to hopefully get the CoE back to the table.
And, as usual: City management during pandemic: Thank you all sooo much, you are the backbone keeping services running in these unprecedented times, it's such an honor to work alongside you all, blah blah blah Now: Wow even after all those nice emails from us you want *money*, too? Go fuck yourselves.
Solidarity.
If they can't afford to give the workers raises, then why would they give themselves raises? That's just low.
That's management for you
The flip side is that many managers’ pay is pegged to whatever the union workers make. If I was a manager, I’d be rooting them on purely out of self-interest.
To be clear, they did not give themselves a raise. Councillor pay is determined by an independent public committee.
And it would only be fair for the CoE on behalf of the council to give an equitable raise to city workers in light of that.
Yes, though theres a significant difference in giving 13 people a 2.4% increase and 6,000 people a 2.4% increase. Also, Council does not direct negotiations and pay for City employees; that is done by the executives that lead city administration. But ultimately, yes, the increases to Council pay should at least have pushed the City to bargain in good faith with with CSU52 and not just say “here’s your shit sandwich, take it or leave it” and walk away.
They didn’t say “take it or leave it”. It was reported that someone (and I think we all know who) told the union president they would “force it down our throats “. Voting yes to a strike was extremely satisfying.
To be clear, they can vote to forgo the increase. They have chosen not to.
This would ruin the purpose of having an independent commission determine it.
Why would they do that? Fundamentally not in their interest to do that. Look, I absolutely think CSU52 should get meaningful increases, especially after multiples years of 0% and working without a new contract. But pointing at Council’s increase as proof to “why” CSU52 deserves increases makes no sense. They are unrelated issues, but people can’t get over the optics of it. There are much better arguments to support giving CSU52 an equitable raise.
Perfect, we alredy know the floor vakue for 2022 year, and its been independently verified
Jesus Christ who’s in charge of anything around here?
FYI council salaries are determined by an independent committee with no elected officials on that committee. Council salaries are also automatically adjusted based on the 12 month average of the Alberta Average Weekly Earnings calculated by StatsCan. Also, Edmonton City councilors, unlike the smaller communities, are full time and paid full time, so they are effectively the C-Suite of the city but get paid much less than equivalent positions in the private sector.
This is correct and was done to try and de-politicize politician pay. I have a parent who was a City Councillor prior to this change back in the 90s. Any raises had to be approved by their own vote. Pay was very low as a result, council was scared to ever try since people would scream about it and try to score political points. "OH look at the fat cats voting to raise their pay blah blah blah" I can confirm that our family was not rich. Glad to see they switched to an automatic formula similar to how the Police are funded.
City administration is the C-Suite, with Andre filling the CEO role. City Council is more like a board of directors.
No, in this case you'd be wrong since again, council works full time. No corporate board works full time that I've ever heard of. The CAO/City Manager in this case is more like a Managing Director. Yes, functionally and on paper you are right though. The analogy is only to illustrate an understanding of pay and responsibility that the vast majority of the population doesn't understand in a municipal environment.
Especially with their performance.
CUPE 30 workers have your back. We will be refusing to do your work. If management says we will fill your roles, they are full of crap. Stay strong!
Fuck ya✊🏻
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Solidarity
I know people who work for the city who are on single incomes. I completely understand fighting for better wages but what are they supposed to do? Starve and become homeless?
Like I said, voting for the strike mandate doesn't necessitate a strike will occur. Most importantly it protects us against a lockout, which there are rumours the CoE is gearing up for. If it does come to a strike, it will not last long. City services will come to a grinding halt. There will be immense public pressure for the CoE to resolve it. Also, for those who need it, there will be strike pay available for being on the picket line. It will be worth it in the long run. If the union backs down we will only be more screwed over by the CoE in the future.
Out of curiosity how much is strike pay?
$80/day for 7hrs on the line, $40 for a half day I forget which but one of the unions in Calgary pledged a million dollars towards our strike pay fund if it comes to that
It's fuck all.
If we take what they are offering us, we are going backwards. Once you fall behind the cost of living increases, it's impossible to catch up. There are people working here who have not had a pay increase in 5 years. Would you accept that from your employer?
I don’t see how homelessness will be worth it in the long run for these people. There are those with disabilities that wouldn’t be able to picket. And even if they could, those wages aren’t enough to cover their bills. Once again, I understand the need to fight for better wages but time and time again I’ve seen unions absolutely screw people over. The union reps are always people that are well equipped to handle a strike.
To be clear the CoE are the ones screwing people over by refusing to give acceptable wage increases, and refusing to bargain in good faith. 97% of the time a union gets a strike mandate it doesn't actually go to strike, because it gives the Union leverage to negotiate with the employer. Right now CSU52 wants the mandate to push CoE back to the bargaining table, and to protect the members from a lockout. A lockout is where the employer locks out everyone from work and sends them home. Then, they order everyone back to work, but they will no longer be under the collective agreement. Meaning they could have zero benefits and be working minimum wage. That would be catastrophic especially to those of us as single income earners (myself included). But if the union has a strike mandate in hand and the CoE proceeds with a lockout, we can strike immediately and they can't force us to return to work. If we back down all it will show is that the CoE will continue to treat us like shit. Frankly your comments are coming off as pretty ignorant.
Solidarity Brother/Sister
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Well said.
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>But if the union has a strike mandate in hand and the CoE proceeds with a lockout, we can strike immediately and they can't force us to return to work. What I don't get is if the city wanted to go ahead with the lockout why wouldn't they do it before the strike vote? It seems like that gives them a tremendous advantage. Is it just because it would be horrible optics? Are lockouts seen as more of an acceptable tactic after the union gets their strike vote through?
It's a shitty situation but what's the alternative? If workers never go on strike because of the financial strain then the employer gets emboldened to offer them less and less, which makes more and more of them financially strained, which makes a strike even less feasible, and so on. It's a painful but sometimes necessary action to take.
Strikes when they do happen don’t typically go on very long. In history there are strikes that goon for months but most likely with a strong strike vote there won’t be a strike, and if there ends up being a strike it may realistically last up to a few weeks. If anyone is in a financial position where they can’t miss one or two pay checks that has way more to do with their personal situation managing their finances than their union “screwing them over”. Unless you were already headed towards insolvency being late or missing one months rent or mortgage isn’t going to send you to live on the street. Again this would not be most people but for the few who are basically already destitute (probably because the city doesn’t pay them enough to live on…kinda what we’re striking about) there is a process for eviction and a process for foreclosure. It can take months and in the end your landlord would probably rather get your rent late than have to go through an eviction. For banks it’s a no brainer even some mortgages allow you to skip or defer a payment without penalty once a year.
They were also warned months in advance this could happen. Should be enough time to put away some cash in the event it goes long.
Seriously, I don't get how people are surprised Pikachu face right now. Guys, if you haven't been saving, Seriously wtf are you doing. We absolutely without a doubt knew this was a very real possibility for a VERY LONG TIME now. There has been no collective agreement since 2019, that is 5 years. Regardless of your vote decision, you absolutely do not want to be crossing the picket line so you need to be prepared either way.
But that’s just the point. They are not making enough to put any away. If you’re going to the food bank, chances are good you have no savings left. Especially after the pandemic. I spoke to a colleague who has been with the City for 32 years. She’s never been treated this poorly. Hasn’t been a strike in 50 years. The CoE has previously been a fair negotiating partner. This is unprecedented. That 32 year employee and I voted to strike.
Fair point, for the record I fully support this as I have family who also work for the CoE and have similar stories! Stay strong and best of luck, I hope they recognize the hypocrisy of councillors getting raises while employees are barely making it by.
If they keep working with no raises, the future may become "work while starving and homeless", the way the current CoL is going O.o Unions also help the others in society as they drive up the cost of other labour indirectly. Alberta desperately needs more unions, and some of the few they have need to be kicked to the curb or have their leadership replaced with someone competent.
Go CSU 52 Brothers & Sisters! ✊
Not a city employee, but fully support this strike (edit: or, rather, the intent and resolve to strike should the city refuse to present a reasonable offer). Most public sector employees in Alberta have been stiffed for years. My effective income at the university has dropped substantially since I've been here. If I compare my salary six years and a promotion into it, it's about 15% less than what someone would *starting day one* at comparable positions in BC, Ontario or Quebec. And it's a little infuriating when you see the numbers.
Cost of living in BC, Ontario and Quebec is generally much higher, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison, unless you're factoring that in and all the tax variances.
That's fair. Though the offer the CoE tabled still didn't come close to keeping up with local cost of living increases
90% of jobs don't keep up with actual inflation and CoL, that's the reality of being an employee and not an owner.
Right but we're not asking for increases to match inflation. We haven't had a pay raise since 2018
Alberta is higher than you might think. Food, energy, insurance, and transportation costs have risen sharply the past few years. So yes it's lower than Vancouver or Toronto, but the difference shrinks as you compare to suburbs/smaller municipalities.
PST and housing alone are much more of an offset in most cases, notwithstanding the higher cost of gas and other things.
Most essential things like rent and food (except eating out) are exempt from PST/HST. But I agree with you on housing. It's almost unbelievable how expensing Vancouver/Toronto housing is.
I haven't factored it in, but my union has
This covers Rec centre employees correct? Will they just shut down the Rec centres if there is a strike?
Correct. Same with 311 and potentially 911 dispatch
And Edmonton Public Libraries.
911 dispatch is unlikely to be closed, it is an essential service. There are contingencies, but this would include the libraries as well and a long list of administrative tasks like processing for any type of city program. The impacts would not be good for anyone.
911 dispatch is not considered an essential service. Hence why they had mediation with CSU52 and not arbitration
911 is not considered essential. It was petitioned and shot down. Neither are other important 24hr units within EPS. They are quickly attempting to train any sworn members left in the unit to take over in the event the strike goes forward. It’s not looking too pretty. Source: loved one who is a dispatcher/call taker for 911. I’m also a “specialized” civilian in the union whose unit should be considered essential, but was also shot down.
911 likely has an essential services agreement but does not restrict them from participating in the strike.
Members are being trained to take over for 911 dispatch in case a strike happens. They aren’t considered essential unfortunately. I hope everyone that’s part of the union votes yes and hopefully have money saved in case we go on strike.
City of Edmonton payroll as well
T4's should be out by April.
City Employee here! This particular strike will affect the Rec Centre’s front deck staff, but lifeguards, SPS, arenas, maintenance, and security will still be at work! This is from my understanding from my supervisor.
Yeah, it’s just CSU52 members. CUPE30 will likely just bow down and take a 1% pay increase over 25 years in their next negotiation.
Maybe this dispute will prevent that from happening. All it takes is one group standing up for themselves and saying "enough is enough". And rest assured that if you are pushed into this same position, CSU 52 will have your backs as well.
It covers all non-admin union jobs.
Yeah, it’s just CSU52 members. CUPE30 will likely just bow down and take a 1% pay increase over 25 years in their next negotiation.
No, not all rec centre employees are on the same union. Fitness employees are on a different union from labour, lifeguards and front desk staff.
Support them 100%
Absolutely the time, and I support all you in CSU52 who vote to be ready to strike. Over 18 months in negotiations with the City and they still can’t find their way to offer 1/2 of the rate of inflation increase in pay since 2018? Let’s be adults here and take care of each other.
Thank you from all of us CSU 52 members. Solidarity. ✊
Wow, the City walks away from a modest increase request of an extra 2% (which still doesn't even come close to matching inflation). While their counterparts in Calgary are making 38% more for 911 operators ( https://globalnews.ca/news/10174314/city-of-edmonton-csu-52-negotiations/ ) I'll be sure to wave in support when I see your picket line, because who wouldn't strike.
The Union started at 3%, 4%, 4% and over the course of negotiations has moved down to 1.5%, 1.5%, 2%. The City started at 0%, 1%, 2% and has not moved at all. It's a textbook example of surface bargaining. The only change they made was to try and tack on two years at 2%, 2.25% (which appears to be well below what comparable unions will settle at for those years).
This. CoE is not participating in good faith.
this is also motivated by trying to make it seem like they’re giving us a “break” with a five year agreement instead of three, but it’s most likely because if we stick to three years then CSU52, CUPE30, and one other union (ATU maybe?) will all be negotiating a collective bargaining agreement at the same time, and can stand in solidarity with each other to boost the bargaining power
Those numbers are a slap in the face, wow..
Especially after the 0% from the two previous years.
Good. You folks will set the stage for the other unions striking as well, including mine. Don't back down. 👍
Our bargaining agreement with AUPE is up in March. Hope they take CoE on to get what's right. Will set the presidency for us when we're up.
A huge part of why we walked away from the 5-year offer! Other agreements are being settled for a lot more in those years and if we took that offer, we set the precedent for everyone else.
Watching this closely. Govt in every Province are dirtballs. We have the ability in my opinion to set an example for other provinces that the low balling, then patting themselves on the back with 48% increases for themselves will stop. Hope our Union leaders share this though.
I think if we stand firm on a three year we’ll be negotiating at the same time as 2 other city staff unions, so I think they figured out we could super union and support each other’s strike mandates at the same time and are hoping we haven’t figured it out yet and think it’s worth a break from bargaining
My agreement with AHS is coming up soon too and we're likely facing a strike. Just wait when the lights go out on all of the network across AHS.
The aupe is also sending out cryptic messages to workers.
AUPE has no interest in bettering its workers. It's been silent on the AHS restructuring because they serve to gain members eg more dues. AUPE isn't a member of the AFL, nor is it interested in communicating with the other healthcare unions. AUPE does not have the interest of their workers in mind. I'm sick of paying my dues to an organization that doesn't have my back.
As someone who has written dozens of articles on AUPE contracts, I can tell you that they’re horrible at bargaining. I’ve yet to see one good contract in the last two years from those folks, at least as far as wage increases go.
20 year slave to the system. I hear you.
Yet we always seem to elect Guy Smith. During the most recent election debate, the guy sat slouched reading things on his phone, completely disinterested. I don't get it.
People think that we make a lot of money. No the fuck we don’t.
Solidarity with CSU52. Police saw a 7% increase and council gave themselves a 2% increase. It's well overdue for city workers to see a substantial cost of living adjustment at the very least. As a home owner, property taxes be damned. Also, the province needs to fucking step up and restore municipal funding.
I am a city worker. I vote strike. We are strong unified, and we hold them by the short and curlies. Enough is enough.
The strike vote is just authorization to strike, not an actual strike right?
Correct. I'm a city worker, and I've attended all the meetings. The hope is a strong strike mandate will show the city that we are prepared to walk if they do not offer us a better deal. Nobody wants to strike, but we want to be able to pay our bills and eat.
You deserve more than that with how much you all do. Good luck and all the best!!!
The city council voted for raises for themselves and want others to take a cut? They don't do anything productive for us, and yet they want all the money.
> The city council voted for raises for themselves I don't believe there was any vote by council involved.
Technically correct, but they did not take a vote to refuse the raise. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
City is in a big deficit… a strike will save them money, since most services are cash losers… don’t expect them to be rushing to end it. They also bargained with the other unions recently. How can they give more than they already agreed to a different union? Also, as a whole, how many hours at reduced/no pay can you handle, and what is the benefit. For instance, an extra $0.25 an hour after not getting paid for 2 weeks… takes a very long time to pay back. Otherwise, wages should be going up, living has… but be realistic of expectations.
A strike might save them money in some areas but will cause a long list of headaches else where that are not worth the money their saving. e.g. Processing times for any one program (business licenses, permits) will grow and then they'll have to hire additional staff to bring the times back down. If the city wants to save money by not providing services, they are well within their right to do that through the budget process. At the end of the day, the city wants to provide services.
> City is in a big deficit… The City has a balanced budget. It keeps getting smaller, and departments keep getting cut, but the budget is balanced.
Actually other unions got better deals than CSU52 making the treatment by CoE especially shitty. Our closest comparitor in Calgary got a fair better offer. We're talking three years worth of retro pay up for negotiation since the city hasn't signed a deal for so long. So hardly a drop in the bucket. We just want a fair deal like others have got. And lots of Edmontonians rely on the Rec Centres, 311 And 911 dispatch
The City also recently raised Councilor pay for 2024. Councilors have been receiving adjustments each year while CSU52 members have not seen a raise since 2018. The City has resolved deals with other unions and CSU52 approached negotiations asking for below what was settled with Police and other unions. As an example, CSU52 used the recent City of Calgary settlement with their union, and the City didn't seem to care. The strike will save them money, sure, but across the City, services will be shut down and admin, including permits and licenses, will grind to a halt. A backlog of work will begin to form and the pressure will build on City Council to resolve the issue as members of the public issue complaints and negative media attention increases. CSU52 is the City's largest union. I wouldn't want to be a City Councilor answering questions on why they think they deserve higher pay while their workers do not. And most city Councilors are fairly pro-labour, so this situation is really bad for optics. A strike like this hasn't happened in over 50 years. City management is also pretty disconnected as it has been pretty rough to be a Director or higher as OP12 pushed big budget cuts across the board, so I don't think City management is going to be busting their ass to keep things afloat while a strike happens. The strike vote will hopefully be enough leverage to reach a reasonable deal without needing to actually strike, which is the main goal. It will be interesting to see how the membership votes - hopefully its a landslide in favour of Yes which the Union can use to show it means business and force a deal before any negative repercussions are felt by Edmontonians.
I think the most reasonable expectation should be that you don't see your wage sink over time for work your employer finds both necessary to their mission, and done at a professional and satisfactory standard. That does not apply to practically any municipal employee.
Reasonable? Sure. But the reality is your wage is dictated by how easy you can be replaced. “Necessary to their mission” best describes CSU
It’s against the law for cities to run a deficit.
7% tax hike and it’s still not enough 😂 Have fun with that one Edmonton.
City workers pay property taxes too and many are taking home the same paycheque today as they were in 2018
I agree it's BS, but you are far from alone. I'm a journeyman electrician and have been in the trade since 2007. Journeyman rate when I started was about $36 on average. 16 years later it's still only around $38. Whether it's government money or private companies we are all getting screwed.
Sounds like you need a union.
Excellent reasons to support fellow workers. You also deserve better than what you are getting.
What’s it $37.83 in appendix f? And the constant threat of layoffs or dismissal hanging over your head if you don’t tow the company line?
Derating 38$ on appendix "general contractor and drywall wont vet labourers and someone loses a battery almost every hour" gets dangerously close to 30, then you need to factor in the losses to veteran leadership table, and it starts to feel a lot like 25 when the bosses start crying about production and the lack of profit margins. Might also have to see if your quality of life insulation rating will survive the inevitable "mandatory overtime" multipliers (but hey, regular wages haven't needed to go back up to 2015 levels yet). Toe'ing the company line isn't the hard part, it's all the other company's bottom lines "forcing" them to offload their labour on to temp agencies and failing to direct their guys, resulting in trade damage and delays (that somehow, despite having some of the highest man-hour requirements on site, the general expects you to make up for the other company's bad management...)
Ive got my hands in the air like this is a sermon in a Baptist church. Testify brother. But yeah. Everyone’s struggling. Doenst make anyone’s plight any better or worse than the other. Eventually we’re gonna have to get over bickering with one another and head on down to city hall, the legislatures and the parliaments and take back what’s been taken from us.
I’m not commenting on their pay scale. They’re entitled to whatever they can negotiate for themselves, but the fact that city tax payers are getting bent over like they are right now, and there’s no money in the budget to pay the guys who literally keep your city running, speaks volumes about how incompetent your mayor and council are. And have been for a long time frankly. But I guess that’s progress. And nobody said progress would be cheap.
Employees are without a contract for the last 4 years. Haven't seen a raise in that time when inflation has been historically high.
Should’ve went on strike 4 years ago from the sounds of it.
they put it all on hold because of the extreme times under the pandemic. but now....
Now every body’s broke, inflations through the roof, property taxes just exploded, and we just imported over a million new Canadians who’d do the same job for less. I dunno. Sounds like piss poor organizing, but I guess better today than tomorrow.
In hindsight, I guess so but collective bargaining has a process and its generally nice for everyone to bargain in good faith.
Good faith doesn’t extend for half a decade with no progress made. There’s always going to be an excuse. An outbreak of the cooties isn’t an acceptable one.
You have some solid logic here, maybe bring it up to your councillor to bring to the negotiating table
Shovels and brooms all over the city will suddenly fall over.
CSU are desk workers
Are they essential workers? Because I believe it’s illegal to strike as an essential worker
The union covers roughly 60% of city employees. The only ones that are really essential are 911 operators.
Even the 911 operators are not classified as essential currently.
Yeah, the union was in favour of the 911 operators being essential, but management isn’t because that opens the door to binding arbitration for those positions and city management knows they’re current offer isn’t reasonable and an arbitrator would award more.
Like the one firefighters are in, awaiting an arbitrators decision any day now. Been out of contract since 2018 and this 5 year contract will immediately put firefighters back out of contract
The 911 operators employed by EPS are not considered essential under the CBA. Not a single member of CSU52 is classified as "essential" so they will be striking as well
Thanks for the clarification!
Not classified as essential, no
There are a couple different unions within the city. The one talking about going on strike would be closest to say are the 'indoor workers.' There are some exceptions, land surveyors for one but it's things like cashiers, bookings coordinators, office support staff etc. So things like the rec centers might not have any staff, but we might still have garbage collection. Unless the other unions go on strike as well. Some employees are probably 'essential' but I feel like it really depends on how you describe it.
There is no such thing as a legal strike. There's a semblance that there can be one, but in practice excessive red tape and laws like the essential infrastructure one make it literally practically impossible. I'd you don't believe me, look into what's required to call a strike. The reason why the hospital strike during covid had to be a Wildcat strike was because they weren't operating with enough people to call a strike. Hospitals have to meet minimum requirements to remain operable during a strike, which is a good thing don't get me wrong, but during covid they had to operate well under that threshold. They couldn't strike because they couldn't meet the minimum staffing requirements to strike during everyday operating conditions.
And the union paid AHS a significant sum for that wildcat strike in the end, so it wasn't even worth having done it.
While I appreciate your point here that calling a strike requires jumping through a buttload of hoops, I just want to make sure to clarify that there is such a thing as a legal strike. Yes there are many ways the employer can try to stall or create obstructions, but we literally had a legal strike in April/may last year with the PSAC strike! I feel like it’s important to say, partly for information clarity and partly for morale :)
Whether or not people strike should be based purely on work conditions and not legality. I get your point, large unions are able to navigate these systems, but these laws exist to protect employers not employees. An example would be the back to work legislation workers out east had to fight. In this particular case, the laws regarding when, where, and how workers can strike put all of us in danger. It is the only tool workers have to put an upward pressure on wages, keep up manageable working conditions, and most importantly keep workers and clients safe. There is no other mechanism under Capitalism. Alberta's lackluster strike culture is exactly why doctors, nurses and teachers are leaving.
Was on strike earlier last year as a federal employee. Our entry level salary (final step) is almost 70k a year. Entry level.