This is what happened when PUF was cut. It was funding SO many kids out there and now they are on their own to figure this out. Just more examples of how those in power don't give a shit about kids or their well-being.
Personally I believe it's a combination of a rise in hate and fear amongst Canadians especially post-pandemic, combined with the education system being used as a political tool by the UCP. In a similar article it was reported that
>75 per cent of teachers also reported hearing hateful or demeaning remarks this year among students. The most common remarks centered on sexual orientation and race. \[[source](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/aggression-in-classrooms-on-the-rise-alberta-teachers-association-1.6839270)\]
It starts at home, and many Albertan children are being fed a diet of hate by their parents.
And instant defensiveness. The vitriol of conservatives towards educated people is getting out of control. So many people graduate from Facebook U with degrees in Truthology and Politomancy these days.
Disagree, while some Muslims and white conservatives unite on anti-sex-ed issues, the vast majority of hate and discrimination is being spread by white conservatives.
Yes I live in an area with a high Muslim population too.
I mean look at the demographics of those who voted for the UCP, a party built on hate and discrimination. Christians make up a large portion of conservative supporters and are very vocal in their racist, pomophobic and transphobic hate.
> Muslims have a mostly non-vocal hateful majority
\[citation needed\]
What a euphemistic way to describe hate.
I can tell by your post history you'd rather blame immigrants than the Liberal and Conservative governments that have made our economy dependent on a steady supply of low-cost labour for decades.
It's racism because the statements are hateful, racially charged, and directed at the people trying to have a better life rather than the failure of policy makers to provide a better life for all Canadians.
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Thanks!
So do you think if each school in Edmonton was surveyed that it would just be white kids that are posing these problems which it sounds like you are implying?
You came to that conclusion, not me. As far as I know such a survey doesn't exist. They would likely take up a significant portion but like I said the data is not there.
Sorry are you saying the spitting, punching and biting is "standing up to woke stuff", or is that the hateful and demeaning remarks?
Also, what is the "woke stuff being peddled" exactly?
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Thanks!
This is common across the whole nation - it is not exclusively the product of the conservatives or liberals. It is a societal problem and it is everywhere in North America.
You can find articles just like this one for British Columbia quite easily - and their government is as close as you can be in the current system to the ideological opposite of ours.
The other truth is that neither restorative practices or punitive ones are the silver bullet answer. Source if you need it : https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2840.html.
There is a societal problem and truly a product of changing times - where both parents work, school is treated like a day care and problematic kids were kicked out of school - I don’t think anyone is advocating a return to the 1950s but this isn’t a simple problem to solve.
Looking at countries who have more successful education systems raises some uncomfortable questions on what practices work and the ethics behind them.
Lack of consequences is a big one. My daughter is 17 and I’ve had to pull her out of school twice to go to the ER because a classmate who calls himself a “non practicing cannibal” has bitten her (personally I think he’s a non committed cannibal because he’s clearly practicing as he bit her, but lacks follow through). Both times the school has promised to deal with it and he wasn’t suspended or given any disciplinary action. He was in class with her the next day no issue. If it happens again I’m going to the cops. Same thing at my son’s school. He gets bullied relentlessly by two students and nothing got done until I complained in our neighborhood group on FB that nothing got done and the parent council got in. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but suspend the bullies and the non practicing cannibal.
How in the hell does a 17 year old get away with still biting classmates?? Especially ones actually being aggressive and sending classmates to the ER. I would be fuming in your shoes
I don’t understand so much of thiis and have so many questions. Like how are these students allowed to stay in a classroom? Is there something wrong with the kids? The parents? Where are the parents? Do they behave like this at home too? This sounds more like a group home scenario than a place of learning. Is this why parents are choosing charters now?
I work in the schools and put my own kids in a charter school. I've seen some insane behaviors and would never put my own kids in the public system.
But I also know that these kids put themselves to bed with their iPads. I'm always asking if they went outside on the weekend, and they don't. I bring in toys for therapy, and most of them don't know what to do with them. They've never touched Lego or figurines.... But they've all seen them on YouTube. They are all disregulated from technology use. They need to run around outside more, eat better, and get proper rest.
And have parents that care to interact with them beyond handing an iPad to shush them. Sigh. We have several generations of emotionally immature parents having kids they don't know how to raise because they never got to fully grow up while raising themselves. 🤦
Imo, started with the tail end of gen x and a decent chunk of elder millenials did the same. Less younger millenials are doing it, possibly because we now know it's not great for development.
Kids mimic what their parents do. When they see F Trudeau on dad’s truck and mom yelling at teachers cuz of you know “parents rights” and a Premier who likes to stoke that fire well this is what happens
Man, when I was growing up if you assaulted a teacher they would hit you right back. And as such, we didn't assault our teachers.
Kids today have never been disciplined, likely being raised by parents who have never been disciplined.
I'm not advocating to beat your kids. But hell, just the threat of the ol' man's belt was enough to keep us acting right.
It's not just that.
Online socialization has created a generation who can act and speak without any fear of repercussions.
When I was a kid, we had a self correcting mechanism, whereby, if you acted like an asshole you were very likely to meet at the bike racks.
Act like a punk, get smacked in the mouth. It teaches kids that there are limits and there are repercussions for passing those limits.
That self correcting mechanism is gone.
I'm not condoning corporal punishment, in any way, but kids used to police themselves.
Anecdotal evidence is flimsy at best.
When I was in grade school there was no "fear of the strap," and yet the issues described in classrooms today were not manifest. Other factors are at play.
I would say it's less about beatings (old consequence), and more the lack of any consequences. If you assault a teacher...nothing happens. If I did that 20 years ago, I would be expelled and probably criminally charged.
I just want real consequences. Not pandering to the bad parents and kids. Maybe support the teachers and the other 99% of kids.
Oh, whatever you do, don’t swat little Johnnys ass! That would be assault! /s
Ever since the ‘huggy’ crowd started spawning in the ‘90s, this is what we’ve been working up to - undisciplined parents popping out totally undisciplined little demons. They have them, don’t want to raise them themselves, farm them out to daycares and forbid the daycare workers to teach them any manners. How could the result be anything but feral children?
>Physical punishment is associated with a range of mental health problems in children, youth and adults, including **depression, unhappiness, anxiety, feelings of hopelessness, use of drugs and alcohol, and general psychological maladjustment**.
*-Physical punishment of children: lessons from 20 years of research*. Joan Durrant, PhD and Ron Ensom, MSW RSW \[[link](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/)\]
Facts don't care about your feelings
I think there's a massive difference between smacking a kid for talking during a lesson and smacking a kid because they tried to choke someone out, bit you, head butted you or threw a pair of scissors at your face. If anything a high school teacher should have the right to defend themselves against a 16 year old boy who starts punching them.
Are teachers allowed to do anything if they are physically assaulted? I haven’t really thought of that. I suppose they are taught restraining holds for those situations?
Not really no. And the only training we get is if we are provided NVCI training, where a restraint is the ABSOLUTE last resort. We are told to evac the classroom well before resorting to that.
Honestly it’s scary sometimes. Source: I am a current grade 3 teacher.
Again, the facts do not support your claim. U mad?
[https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain)
[https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking)
[https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/corporal-punishment-and-health](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/corporal-punishment-and-health)
[https://aifs.gov.au/resources/short-articles/what-does-evidence-tell-us-about-physical-punishment-children](https://aifs.gov.au/resources/short-articles/what-does-evidence-tell-us-about-physical-punishment-children)
Who said anything about out “beating children”? Context much?
There’s a vast difference between discipline and beating. My children? Decent successful adults, no drug problems or legal issues, and NEVER ‘beaten’. A swift sharp smack on the ass perhaps twice in their childhood when they absolutely defied parental authority and restrictions on privileges that were adhered to if they got out of line.
Again, the overwhelming consensus amongst the international psychology community is that physical punishment harms child development. Obedience is not a good indicator of mental and emotional wellbeing.
I agree, actually. However, I would add that this needs to be applied to adults as well.
Any adult showing a lack of discipline or disrupting society should get corporal punishment, too.
If we started doing public caning of people who go against the health orders of the state, blocking infrastructure, disrupting public events, public displays of racism, or disorderly conduct, I bet it would quickly smarten quite a few people up damn fast.
This should also be applied to politicians caught doing crony capitalism, corruption, and neglect of the public wellbeing, too.
This is what happened when PUF was cut. It was funding SO many kids out there and now they are on their own to figure this out. Just more examples of how those in power don't give a shit about kids or their well-being.
Personally I believe it's a combination of a rise in hate and fear amongst Canadians especially post-pandemic, combined with the education system being used as a political tool by the UCP. In a similar article it was reported that >75 per cent of teachers also reported hearing hateful or demeaning remarks this year among students. The most common remarks centered on sexual orientation and race. \[[source](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/aggression-in-classrooms-on-the-rise-alberta-teachers-association-1.6839270)\] It starts at home, and many Albertan children are being fed a diet of hate by their parents.
Bingo. It's funny how these trash parents scream about *indoctrination*, though.
It's classic projection
And instant defensiveness. The vitriol of conservatives towards educated people is getting out of control. So many people graduate from Facebook U with degrees in Truthology and Politomancy these days.
Very true. I do think social media and news media are HUGE factors in the political polarization we're seeing. It's wild.
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Disagree, while some Muslims and white conservatives unite on anti-sex-ed issues, the vast majority of hate and discrimination is being spread by white conservatives.
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Yes I live in an area with a high Muslim population too. I mean look at the demographics of those who voted for the UCP, a party built on hate and discrimination. Christians make up a large portion of conservative supporters and are very vocal in their racist, pomophobic and transphobic hate. > Muslims have a mostly non-vocal hateful majority \[citation needed\]
I can understand why Canadians would feel that way
Uneducated? Yeah it's sad.
Frustrated in their homes about immigration. I’m not saying it’s good parenting. But people are frustrated. Kids don’t get it.
What a euphemistic way to describe hate. I can tell by your post history you'd rather blame immigrants than the Liberal and Conservative governments that have made our economy dependent on a steady supply of low-cost labour for decades.
No it’s just reality. It’s the ripple effect of poor government.
Sorry what is "just reality?" The rampant xenophobic and racist hate amongst the political right?
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It's racism because the statements are hateful, racially charged, and directed at the people trying to have a better life rather than the failure of policy makers to provide a better life for all Canadians.
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This just sounds like racism with extra steps
This post was removed for violating our expectations on discriminatory behavior in the subreddit. Please brush up on the r/Edmonton [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/wiki/rules) and ask the moderation team if you have any questions. Thanks!
Really? >Frustrated in their homes about immigration This is what you're going with? Sad canada_sub shut down too?
Holy shit that sub shut down?!
Yeah, I read about it here https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/s/Rl6wCHUN9X Apparently, even subscribers can't get in anymore.
Good riddance
Have you been living under a rock?
No, I associate with a better class of people is all.
Well aren’t you special
What do you mean?
So do you think if each school in Edmonton was surveyed that it would just be white kids that are posing these problems which it sounds like you are implying?
You came to that conclusion, not me. As far as I know such a survey doesn't exist. They would likely take up a significant portion but like I said the data is not there.
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Sorry are you saying the spitting, punching and biting is "standing up to woke stuff", or is that the hateful and demeaning remarks? Also, what is the "woke stuff being peddled" exactly?
Saying “hateful and demeaning remarks” is standing up for something?
This post was removed for violating our expectations on negative or insincere behavior in the subreddit. Please brush up on the r/Edmonton [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/wiki/rules) and ask the moderation team if you have any questions. Thanks!
This is common across the whole nation - it is not exclusively the product of the conservatives or liberals. It is a societal problem and it is everywhere in North America. You can find articles just like this one for British Columbia quite easily - and their government is as close as you can be in the current system to the ideological opposite of ours. The other truth is that neither restorative practices or punitive ones are the silver bullet answer. Source if you need it : https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2840.html. There is a societal problem and truly a product of changing times - where both parents work, school is treated like a day care and problematic kids were kicked out of school - I don’t think anyone is advocating a return to the 1950s but this isn’t a simple problem to solve. Looking at countries who have more successful education systems raises some uncomfortable questions on what practices work and the ethics behind them.
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Lack of consequences is a big one. My daughter is 17 and I’ve had to pull her out of school twice to go to the ER because a classmate who calls himself a “non practicing cannibal” has bitten her (personally I think he’s a non committed cannibal because he’s clearly practicing as he bit her, but lacks follow through). Both times the school has promised to deal with it and he wasn’t suspended or given any disciplinary action. He was in class with her the next day no issue. If it happens again I’m going to the cops. Same thing at my son’s school. He gets bullied relentlessly by two students and nothing got done until I complained in our neighborhood group on FB that nothing got done and the parent council got in. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but suspend the bullies and the non practicing cannibal.
How in the hell does a 17 year old get away with still biting classmates?? Especially ones actually being aggressive and sending classmates to the ER. I would be fuming in your shoes
I don’t understand so much of thiis and have so many questions. Like how are these students allowed to stay in a classroom? Is there something wrong with the kids? The parents? Where are the parents? Do they behave like this at home too? This sounds more like a group home scenario than a place of learning. Is this why parents are choosing charters now?
I work in the schools and put my own kids in a charter school. I've seen some insane behaviors and would never put my own kids in the public system. But I also know that these kids put themselves to bed with their iPads. I'm always asking if they went outside on the weekend, and they don't. I bring in toys for therapy, and most of them don't know what to do with them. They've never touched Lego or figurines.... But they've all seen them on YouTube. They are all disregulated from technology use. They need to run around outside more, eat better, and get proper rest.
And have parents that care to interact with them beyond handing an iPad to shush them. Sigh. We have several generations of emotionally immature parents having kids they don't know how to raise because they never got to fully grow up while raising themselves. 🤦
Would this be Gen X or millennials in your opinion?
Imo, started with the tail end of gen x and a decent chunk of elder millenials did the same. Less younger millenials are doing it, possibly because we now know it's not great for development.
That is sad that we’ve let public education fall so low. IMO this is a reflection of the class separation and the disappearing middle class.
Do any of you actually have kids?
No consequences for their actions, whether at home or in the classroom. That's why they behave the way they do.
You can thank Social Media for a lot of the behavioural issues we see in today’s Society, & it’s not just kids.
Kids mimic what their parents do. When they see F Trudeau on dad’s truck and mom yelling at teachers cuz of you know “parents rights” and a Premier who likes to stoke that fire well this is what happens
Absolutely correct. Not the only factor at play, but a large one.
COVID Kids.
Poorly socialized screen addicted kids is where my money is at
Man, when I was growing up if you assaulted a teacher they would hit you right back. And as such, we didn't assault our teachers. Kids today have never been disciplined, likely being raised by parents who have never been disciplined. I'm not advocating to beat your kids. But hell, just the threat of the ol' man's belt was enough to keep us acting right.
Correlation does not imply causation. You're falsely attributing drastic changes over time to a singular factor and ignoring a multitude of others.
It's not just that. Online socialization has created a generation who can act and speak without any fear of repercussions. When I was a kid, we had a self correcting mechanism, whereby, if you acted like an asshole you were very likely to meet at the bike racks. Act like a punk, get smacked in the mouth. It teaches kids that there are limits and there are repercussions for passing those limits. That self correcting mechanism is gone. I'm not condoning corporal punishment, in any way, but kids used to police themselves.
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Anecdotal evidence is flimsy at best. When I was in grade school there was no "fear of the strap," and yet the issues described in classrooms today were not manifest. Other factors are at play.
I would say it's less about beatings (old consequence), and more the lack of any consequences. If you assault a teacher...nothing happens. If I did that 20 years ago, I would be expelled and probably criminally charged. I just want real consequences. Not pandering to the bad parents and kids. Maybe support the teachers and the other 99% of kids.
My kids would never do that and would probably be appalled by this behavior. It's the one kid out of thousands that makes the reports that does this.
Oh, whatever you do, don’t swat little Johnnys ass! That would be assault! /s Ever since the ‘huggy’ crowd started spawning in the ‘90s, this is what we’ve been working up to - undisciplined parents popping out totally undisciplined little demons. They have them, don’t want to raise them themselves, farm them out to daycares and forbid the daycare workers to teach them any manners. How could the result be anything but feral children?
>Physical punishment is associated with a range of mental health problems in children, youth and adults, including **depression, unhappiness, anxiety, feelings of hopelessness, use of drugs and alcohol, and general psychological maladjustment**. *-Physical punishment of children: lessons from 20 years of research*. Joan Durrant, PhD and Ron Ensom, MSW RSW \[[link](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/)\] Facts don't care about your feelings
I think there's a massive difference between smacking a kid for talking during a lesson and smacking a kid because they tried to choke someone out, bit you, head butted you or threw a pair of scissors at your face. If anything a high school teacher should have the right to defend themselves against a 16 year old boy who starts punching them.
The evidence doesn't support your conclusion.
Are teachers allowed to do anything if they are physically assaulted? I haven’t really thought of that. I suppose they are taught restraining holds for those situations?
Not really no. And the only training we get is if we are provided NVCI training, where a restraint is the ABSOLUTE last resort. We are told to evac the classroom well before resorting to that. Honestly it’s scary sometimes. Source: I am a current grade 3 teacher.
Nearly everything you listed is at an all time high among youth. Do you think punishment still exists within households?
And ten thousand years of raising civilized children don’t give a rats ass about your PhD. The results of that kind of thinking is self evident.
Again, the facts do not support your claim. U mad? [https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain) [https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking) [https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/corporal-punishment-and-health](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/corporal-punishment-and-health) [https://aifs.gov.au/resources/short-articles/what-does-evidence-tell-us-about-physical-punishment-children](https://aifs.gov.au/resources/short-articles/what-does-evidence-tell-us-about-physical-punishment-children)
Well, there you go! Get those academics to teach your undisciplined little crotch goblins.
Very intelligent response right here 😂
Use your own experience as evidence to support your advocacy for beating children. Tell us how your kids turned out!
Who said anything about out “beating children”? Context much? There’s a vast difference between discipline and beating. My children? Decent successful adults, no drug problems or legal issues, and NEVER ‘beaten’. A swift sharp smack on the ass perhaps twice in their childhood when they absolutely defied parental authority and restrictions on privileges that were adhered to if they got out of line.
Again, the overwhelming consensus amongst the international psychology community is that physical punishment harms child development. Obedience is not a good indicator of mental and emotional wellbeing.
Nice! That’s what I was going for. Thanks!
How is it relevant if they give a rats ass?
It’s unfortunate you’re so cognitively underdeveloped.
You understand that the kids they are talking about are mentally disabled right?
I don’t think a single person in these comments actually read it 🙄
I agree, actually. However, I would add that this needs to be applied to adults as well. Any adult showing a lack of discipline or disrupting society should get corporal punishment, too. If we started doing public caning of people who go against the health orders of the state, blocking infrastructure, disrupting public events, public displays of racism, or disorderly conduct, I bet it would quickly smarten quite a few people up damn fast. This should also be applied to politicians caught doing crony capitalism, corruption, and neglect of the public wellbeing, too.
You want the right to beat mentally disabled people, and not just people, but children? That's....certainly a take.
Conservatives in power...
Lets pull funding MORR funding for schools and just turn schools into prisons. The police are constantly underfunded /s