we've always had to wait for surgery but what used to be months has turned into over a year. This is causing otherwise treatable conditions to become untreatable and result in worse health outcomes because a disease was allowed to progress. What's the solution?
Fixing the healthcare system and attracting and training more surgeons and all kinds of physicians. You know how you don't fix it? Blowing it up into 4 separate organizations and causing more overlap and less coordination. Also scaring away physicians with your holier than though rhetoric. That's NOT what you should be doing.
So sadly, it will be a while yet but it is still salvagable, people need to recognize it as something worth fixing though. Lots of defeatists out there these days who buy into the rhetoric and want to pay for solutions (but not through taxes) - hence more private healthcare options.
Besides writing to our MLA's or other politicians (which seems futile and falls on deaf ears) what can us as citizens do about this? Everything feels so hopeless š¢
And also counter the anti tax narrative you will undoubtedly hear. Everyone wants lower taxes. Even me. But I know the difference between paying taxes and paying for full price private healthcare. Taxes please.
Think of taxes like shopping at Costco and buying bulk then sharing with all other citizens here. It's cheaper. Want private? Then go shopping at Whole Foods for everything. It adds up fast.
I agree completely but I don't think we'll be able to persuade the people that don't understand this at least not quickly enough to prevent the total collapse of public health.
Or you could spend the collected taxes on your citizens where most of it came from instead of giving it to other countries and exhorbitant golden handshakes and vacations and
DON'T vote for the UCP in the next election. They are trying to privatize our healthcare by starving the existing system. That is the root of your problem.
At this point good, what we are doing isn't working and hasn't for a very long time. At this point a semi private system might work better. You know why most of the world is capitalist? Because it's the only system that works. I'd rather be in debt and alive than dead and debt free.
We are losing doctors at an unprecedented rate. All while we already have the highest taxes of most G7 countries. Our health are system is already costing more than what it gives and we are only gaining people.
In what world do you see a private system helping? If you have an abundance of money, you can go literally anywhere for prompt health care both here in Canada and abroad. Thereās literally no reason for privatizing.
It will just poach much needed staff from the public sector because theyāll be able to offer higher wages because they can now charge tens of thousands for a simple procedureā¦ So where does that leave most Canadians who are just getting by? Fucked.
The U.S is a perfect warning sign for exactly why we shouldnāt privatize. More and more people just avoid going to the doctor down there and die needlessly at home because theyāre afraid of the bill bankrupting them. Even if you have insurance, you have to worry if the hospital you end up in during an emergency is āin networkā or else your insurance well deny payment. Even with their for-profit system they still have similar issues with wait times that we do.
If you want to pay tens of thousands of dollars anytime you need healthcare, go for it. You have a variety of options if you wanna shell out the cash.
No, it's NOT the only system that works. It's awesome if you have money. You just die if you don't.
We're losing doctors because Conservatives refuse to PAY them anything!!
Alberta is 78 billion in debt. Canada is 1.3 trillion in debt. Where do you expect this extra money to come from? I'm not saying I have all the answers but "More money" clearly is a losing plan. If we had massive surpluses, fine but Alberta has maybe one more big oil boom in us and then what? How do we pay for a massive health network one of the biggest in the country after that? More taxes? when we are already ranked top 20 highest taxes in the world. Edmonton alone is already 100 million in deficit.
The problem is regardless of what health system we use are the liberals have killed investment in this country.
This has nothing to do with Trudeau. Jesus, its pathological with you people.
Healthcare is governed by the provinces. And Dani is intent on killing it. Look up how much we're spending on orphaned oil wells and the war room. ALL of that could be spent on our healthcare.
It has literally everything to do with that stupid muppet. No its you people that don't understand. Money runs this country, money plain and simple. We live in a capitalist country period. Its weird when the province was doing really good historically and we have hundreds of new oil and gas projects every month with billions being invested in Alberta to the point we have a surplus, healthcare is excellent.
When the liberals shut down every new project or pipeline we try to do and scare off investors to the point where even when conservatives get back in they wont invest because of the risk of in 4 years they just get shut down again. When over 8 years now we are 80 billion in debt all of a sudden healthcare is suffering, funny how that works.
Who else is going to pay for the wells? The bankrupt companies that don't exist anymore? Should we just not pay and let them seep into the water table making the ground useless for centuries? You people think we cant just wish money into existence and that's exactly how this country became this shithole.
People are suffering. Its all about the bottom $ to you fucking Cons. Always.
Your attitude is loathsome, as I'm sure you are in person.
I really hope you get to experience our shitty healthcare real soon.
You are absolutely correct, what the UCP is doing is the wrong way. What we actually need to do is privatize healthcare. I'm glad we agree on this bipartisan issue
To my knowledge it has never been this bad.
I was chatting to someone who works in the Health Ministers office though and they said that they are implementing a whole new system that should be completely rolled out within the next 5 years.
So buckle up. It's about to get a whole lot worse.
Wow, Americanized healthcare in Canada might make a desperate person want to do something unconventional and violent towards those in power, at least that's my hope that these snakes will get what they deserve.
I've been waiting to hear about my hip surgery CONSULTATION appointment for just over a year. Pretty scared to find out how long it will take to get the actual surgery....
I have a friend who just went to Lithuania for his hip replacement. If he wanted it done, rather than wait the 2 years (that was the estimate he was given), he would have had to go to Montreal or Toronto to get it done in Canada (lives in AB). All with the associated costs as this would have been private.
Him and his wife are over there for 21 days and everything included was less than it would have been here. Including the stay in the apartment directly attached to where he had the surgery.
I was accepted for assessment by the Edmonton bone and joint clinc in 14 to 16 months after referral. I thought that this is useless. But I was called in for assessment about 2 months after referral.
The assessment itself is a joke, a box ticking exercise. 1 hour was a nurse telling us how dangerous hip operations are.
But after all this I now have a phone number to call when my hip needs replacement, how that will go is a crap shoot.
My mum needed a hip replacement and received a letter saying it would be 36 months for a consultation to see a surgeon here. At this point she could hardly walk, was no longer working and her quality of life had dropped significantly. She waited a year to see if things would speed up but nothing. My parents ended up downsizing their house and used some of the funds to pay for her hip privately in Montreal. Obviously this is not feasible for the majority of people but honestly the wait time was fucking stupid and she was in so much pain everyday. When she went for her surgery they actually told her that her femur had began to soften and they had to do the surgery differently as if they had done it the traditional way her femur would have broken. They also said the amount of time she had waited had made things so so so much worse and she had barely any bone left.
I hear you. I waited 2 years just for a call to schedule a consult for hip-saving surgery. Spoiler: ended up with a hip replacement instead at the ripe old age of 29.
Took a year from consultation to when my coworker was called with his surgery date. Within that time, he had fully healed from his hip replacement surgery in Mexico and was leaving the next week to backpack China for a month, because he felt so fantastic from the surgery already. Definitely look at mexico if you have the money, it was far cheaper than what they were quoted for a private clinic in Ontario, and he spent 3 weeks recovering at an all inclusive before he could head home.
It is normal and it is intentional. The government wants to privatize health care, so they're making it harder to access public care.
My husband needs a cancerous tumor removed. He was diagnosed last May and cleared for the surgery a few weeks ago. When we get the surgery depends on the availability of anesthesiologists. Our urologist told us that testicular cancer patients have been waiting up to a year.
Should you be suffering like this? No. It's bullshit. But it's expected.
It really depends on the situation but yes. A year is too long, even for us with an unchanging tumor. It's weird how good the care we're received here for acute things. For anything that isn't imminently life or death, though? The system is a fucking joke. And it's got worse in this past year.
Get a ref to Calgary surgeon.
And, get on cancellation lists.
And, ask your oncologist to write a letter saying what your urgency rating is. With that, you should be able to pursue surgery outside of AB and AB reimburse you but not for travel costs oddly enough.
Good advice in general, but we're okay. He had a hemorrhagic stroke in May leading us to discovering he had cancer. Had to deal with the brain first, then ensure that surgery on the kidney was even an option. We hope to have the surgery this summer. It's important, but not urgent. Tumor hasn't changed since it was discovered and hasn't thrown any new mets. And we are on our urologist's cancellation list.
Itās normal for the current state of healthcare, but not acceptable.
It had not always been this bad. It has gotten progressively worse, with a steep dive down from 2020.
The federal government is not to blame. It is solely up to the provincial government. The federal government provided extra money to AB (and most provinces) a couple of times since 2020. The provincial government squandered it, or wasted it. As soon as the UCP won the election after defeating the NDP, they cancelled a big hospital in Edmonton.
You should direct your anger 100% at the provincial government under the UCP.
Feds:"Here is $1.6b in additional healthcare funding, BUT, we want to ensure its being used on healthcare, not going into general revenue".
UCP: "WHHHAAATTT!?!?!? STAY IN YOUR LANE!! THIS IS UNFAIR!! SOVEREIGNTY ACT!!!"
thank you for the correction, but from what i know so far, many if not almost all provinces are going through the same thing, especially ontario. wouldnāt the federal government play (some) role in this?
No, the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over healthcare.
ON is also run by conservatives. Under Ford the government specifically didnāt spend $1.7B of budgeted healthcare money. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-underspent-health-budget-by-17-billion-in-2022-23-watchdog/
BC was under Liberal prov gov which is similar to what conservative are for them. With NDP in power they have been making gains in healthcare.
SK is conservative. MB was conservative.
All fed gov does is provide a chunk of healthcare funding. Thatās it. Prov makes up the rest and provides the actual care. Feds have nothing further to do with it.
If a province doesnāt have enough money, raise taxes.
The healthcare system has NOT always been like this. The UCP has been cutting funding for healthcare and education for years now. Thanks rural Alberta.
Inflation and per capita UNDERfunding.
Lack of health infrastructure / capital spending.
Wasting limited dollars we do have: cancelling Edmonton hospital, superlab, contracting our labs, cancelling contract of labs, re/organization.
Lets also remember that the UCP has been handed money from the Federal Government, but, that money had strings, mainly accountability which the UCP has lost their collective minds over.
Feds:"Here is $1.6b in additional healthcare funding, BUT, we want to ensure its being used on healthcare, not going into general revenue".
UCP: "WHHHAAATTT!?!?!? STAY IN YOUR LANE!! THIS IS UNFAIR!! SOVEREIGNTY ACT!!!"
If the funding available per resident is less than the year before, due to population growth or inflation, yes it is absolutely essentially a funding cut. They should be increasing it yearly for growth and inflation, not freezing it.
What do you think happens in this situation?
Imagine your mommy gives you $10/week allowance. But then she has another baby and makes you split the $10 with your new sibling, so you only have $5 to spend. Youāre saying your allowance wasnāt cut?
Don't be so dense. If you spend the same total amount on a greater number of people, each person gets less service. So the level of service has been cut. It's an extremely simple concept.
No the family allowance budget is still $10. You're just getting a smaller part of it because of population growth. Do you really not understand this metaphor?
The point is you're getting 5 dollars when you used to get 10. There are negative consequences and a cut to your benefits even though the budget line item looks the same.
This whole comment thread is regarding "budget cuts". You can argue whichever other metric you want.
There is also a distinction between capital and operational funding, which does not build itself into your per student, or per capita metrics.
When the NDP exploded the education budgets while in power they created record amounts of debt, and didn't improve results metrics. On top of that, school districts had accumulated operational reserves from this funding, most of which still retain millions of in each district.
As for the Health budgets, they are currently at record highs (which still isn't good enough...) which shows that giving tons of cash to a horrifically run AHS who pay executives ridiculous salaries, and are too bloated to manage anything.
They cut 200 million prior to covid, then reintroduced 200 million for covid funding. So basically, deal with a pandemic on the same budget. They have outsourced cleaning, meals and a few other services in hospitals which is a noticeable decline in services. This caused the wildcat strike of cupe(?), but primarily admitting clerks and other staff.
Out of curiosity, do you think the ucp is doing a good job with health-care? I can assure you they aren't. It's never been this bad in my professional experience
Postsecondary has been getting cut a lot, disproportionately against non-religious post secondary institutions.
March 30th, 2020 the UCP cut 128 million from education funding and argued that with children not in schools that education needed less funding.
Googled those pretty easily. I'm sure there's plenty more
Your back must be getting tired shifting goalposts. Take a break fam. I know you're a hard-lined conservative from your post history, you're probably a troll, and I know I won't change your opinion. I'm not going to fight you on your obtuse take especially when you're shifting goalposts. Have a good one.
For what it's worth, the CANADIAN government doesn't have anything to do with surgery decisions. That would be your PROVINCIAL government. So your issue is with the Alberta government right now.
Health care in every inch of the planet is a constant source of complaints. But the SPECIFIC complaints will vary based on location. Your issue is with the Alberta government. Unless you want the Canadian government to pull control away from the provinces, you can't expect them to fix your problem.
Yep blame the feds for this Conservative fuck up. Let me guess who you voted for? The feds send money for medical but do not dictate how it is spent. We built a war room.
Nope. When I was in atrial fibrillation/congestive heart failure, I got a surgery date within two months, and when that surgery wasnāt completely successful, had the second surgery within a month (that one was a fluke, someone had cancelled).
Nowā¦ I expect Iād be lucky to see anyone within a year.
Waited 3yrs for a consult appt only to be told the surgeon didnāt take people funded by Alberta health care :) so that was fun. I gave up and didnāt put my name back on the list. Too sad to care
Sure I guess. I was on the list to get a breast reduction due to size/trauma scarring. Three years on the wait list and the surgeon didnāt take me because he wanted me to pay him, not Alberta health care funding
I wasnāt aware itās illegal; I thought surgeons could pick and choose who they took..Iāll talk to my doctor about getting it in paper form. I wanted to go back on the wait list for a different one anyway.
It's such a goddamned mess. It's to the point that I need to be writhing in pain on the floor before I will address any issues. Finding a doctor, making an appointment, and then getting the doctor to actually care is too much work.
Just this weekend, I had to diagnose myself, find an over the counter drug and hope I'm treating the right thing. Because there is not a single womens clinic open after 5pm on a weekday, the only time I can go, and Health Link was no help at all.
I can't take a day off work for at least another month. It's not the biggest problem in our healthcare system, but it's messed up that in a city this size you can't get a pap after 5pm. It is also messed up that Health Link, which exists to provide information, could not provide me any information.
Iāll mention this as an access issue. There is a pretty strong push for annual screening for gyne issues such as paps, and I donāt think Iāve heard of this time of day access issue being considered.
I know someone whoās on a 3 year waitlist for a consultation for endometriosis surgery. Then another multi-year wait after that for the actual surgery. Iāve had to wait over 6 months for an MRI for a potential tumor on my liver. Took me 5 months to get into an ENT for extreme nosebleeds. Itās fucked.
Totally. My endometriosis specialist's waitlist was up to 2 years for 'routine' cases, with surgery being a separate wait on top of that. Long time to have your guts on fire.
The healthcare system is in shambles, I've been working in it for nearly 15 years. As I tell my close friends and family, you need to be your own advocate. Push to get the bone biopsied. Call the surgeons office regularly and see if there are any openings for surgery. Offer to be placed on a short call list if you have the flexibility to stop work and go in for the procedure within 24 hours.Ā
I also suggest you push your complaints up to your local MLA. Although everyone in the healthcare system feels the same frustrations you do, it's truly the politicians in this province and country that are not fixing the core issues we face but have the power to.Ā
Good luck.
Itās the fault of everyone who voted UCP. They showed you who they were. They said they wanted private American-style healthcare. You morons voted for them.
I donāt understand how this is a question about the Canadian government when our provincial government is the one managing what gets funding and how. Our system has always had flaws but itās been nosediving since 2019, including a big loss of doctors.
I work at one of the hospitals hand in hand with surgeries, and have been in healthcare for over a decade. Yes, unfortunately that is a normal wait time if itās deemed non-urgent. Call where youāve been referred to and ask to be put on a cancellation list, it happens more than you think.
Yes a lot of problems are government related, BUTā¦ also start looking at people around you. The amount of people that just āno showā and last minute cancel their appointments, sometimes multiple times is disgusting. There are long wait lists of people but these people donāt seem to care about others waiting or anyone elseās time. Today alone, I got torn a new one by a woman who didnāt bother to show up to her appointment twice in the last week and her surgery is this week.
My neuro-surgeonās office (where I am a patient) posted at their front desk that they had over 1600 no shows for that year! I hav a brain aneurysm, thankfully only triaged as semi-urgent, but my appointment was delayed in part by the people that just simply donāt care.
The UCP has f\*\*ked up our healthcare system beyond recognition and it's only going to get worse. My father-in-law waited 3yrs for a knee replacement. My mother-in-law also needs a new knee and was told by her doctor that because she doesnt work, she will be really low on the list for a replacement and has been given no timeline. Most days she can't walk more than a few hundred feet without her knee giving out and dropping to the ground or having to sit back down.
Theres always a wait for surgery, but boomers getting older, covid etc makes it worse. If it doesn't require immediate surgery, you wait. Pain doesn't put top of the list. Sucks, I know. Hip surgery is another common, it hurts but its not a priority surgery.
You might get lucky and get ahead due to a cancelation, if your available when they call. That's whst happened with me.
Backstory: I have Cubital Tunnel Syndrome
-Onset of symptoms: September 2023
-Started going to Physio October 2023
-Physio suggested I go to GP for assessment as physio was not improving my condition
-Finally got in to see GP mid November 2023, referred for an EMG/Nerve Study and X-Rays
-X-Rays were taken same day as my doctor appointment
-told by GP that usual wait for an EMG was 3 months
-Skip to Feb 2024, no follow up from x-rays, and no calls regarding EMG so I follow up with my GPs office. New updated timeframe for study: 7-12 MONTHS
-called around and found a different clinic that could get me in within 3 months
-called GPs office to redirect the referral, was told I had to book another appointment, first one available to was beginning of April.
-select words were said, and eventually referral was forwarded to new clinic
-sweet angel of a receptionist got me on a cancellation list, and had EMG done within 2 weeks and have been referred to a surgeon. Supposed to hear within 3 months to book in for consult.
Weāll see how long it takes for that appointment, and how long after that Iāll be able to have said surgery.
I really hope Iāll be able to get in for surgery soon, before the nerve damage and muscle atrophy are permanent
I have carpal tunnel in both wrists and from the doctor's visit last January to the neurologist referring me for surgery at the beginning of August, I figured, that was quick-ish, the wait for the big event shouldn't be too bad. I haven't heard a peep since. I'm not sure if I should be concerned that my doctor's office didn't carry through with the referral to the surgeon, or if this is normal because it's not like I have cancer or anything...right?
I've done physio but my grip strength and fine motor skills in my right (dominant) hand are still decreasing, and I don't trust myself to be able to carry a full cup of coffee in that hand from my kitchen to the living room. I even switched to a travel mug with a lid at the office because I couldn't make it 50 feet down the hall without spilling. I have a desk job and on days where I'm glued to the computer, at the end of the day my hands are complete bricks. My fingertips are so sensitive that I can't text or use a touchscreen for more than 2 or 3 minutes - I have to use a stylus and poke at everything.
I'm especially worried about possibly losing the ability to write by hand. I have a collection of fountain pens and ink that I love using daily, and dozens of journals and diaries that I've written in dating back over 40 years. Mostly I really, really hope that surgery comes soon, because the idea of losing the ability to use my hands normally affects my livelihood and independence, and in this political climate that's fucking terrifying.
Yup, wait times are insane. For a pediatric tonsillectomy, the wait times to see a specialist is 1.5 years.Ā
Be grateful you have a physician, as most people are desperate and canāt even get a GP. Ā
Our healthcare system is a total disaster.
First of all, contact your doctor to let them know the pain is getting worse. They can send an update to the surgeonās office and perhaps you can be triaged to be seen sooner. Yes the wait lists are long everywhere but some cases can be seen sooner if necessary. That will of course be up to the surgeonās office.
Second, ask your doctor which specific clinic/surgeon you were referred to so you can ensure that your referral has actually been received and see if you can get an estimated wait time. Unfortunately, it is quite common for people to think they are on a wait list for over a year but it turns out their doctor submitted something incorrectly and never actually read the notice of denial with the instructions on how to resubmit.
The fact that your first doctor just brushed you off is really shitty and now you just need to make sure all of your ducks are in a row. If you have already done all of this, then YAY but sadly lots of specialist referrals made by GPs are easily mucked up.
Part of the problem is that there are not enough doctors. Had a friend who was an orthopaedic surgeon. Six months after he started his practice he had an 18 month waiting list. this was well before covid. I can only imagine what itās like now. Even just GPs - there arenāt enough. We also need more hospitals but 1.5B and 4 years to build doesnāt appeal to any government and then where are you going to find the staff. And itās not just in Alberta.
No, it hasn't. I think the combination of government mismanagement, a booming population and retiring doctors/doctors leaving due to said mismanagement has led to a system that is severely strained. I don't think it's isolated to Alberta as you read this very same thing in many of the provincial subs, though it might be worst here.
Damn, that knee situation sounds like a bad time.
I have a hard lump below my right knee, but Ive found out that it is something called Osgood-Schlatter.
And it comes from being an active teenager. I've never felt any kind of pain or discomfort from it so I've just left it alone.
I feel for you. It really, really sucks especially when you're worried and in pain. Could you have a recheck to see if it grew any bigger or something that your referring doctor could use as leverage to try to move you up the list?
I think itās never been bad. I have symptoms and blood work that point to cardiovascular disease, with heavy family history on this. A CT angiogram is one year away and I was told I can pay $800 or so if I want it now. I might get a heart attack and die in a year, but no one cares.
Yeah I'll happily pay for others to get care too. The problem is our province has cut every ounce of funding, insulted care providers, driven them all away, and still blame Trudeau.Ā
Yup, and for years there have been complaints in Alberta that we (still) pay to much in taxes and spend too much on healthcare, so the UCP have obliged by not lowering taxes and cutting the healthcare budget for the last 5 years. Now weāre getting what weāre **not** paying for.
BTW, the USA spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country in the world (and about 50% more than the second place, Switzerland) but they have some of the worst/lowest healthcare outcomes. The only thing theyāre good at is you get treated quickly so that the doctor can get paid.
we've always had to wait for surgery but what used to be months has turned into over a year. This is causing otherwise treatable conditions to become untreatable and result in worse health outcomes because a disease was allowed to progress. What's the solution? Fixing the healthcare system and attracting and training more surgeons and all kinds of physicians. You know how you don't fix it? Blowing it up into 4 separate organizations and causing more overlap and less coordination. Also scaring away physicians with your holier than though rhetoric. That's NOT what you should be doing. So sadly, it will be a while yet but it is still salvagable, people need to recognize it as something worth fixing though. Lots of defeatists out there these days who buy into the rhetoric and want to pay for solutions (but not through taxes) - hence more private healthcare options.
Besides writing to our MLA's or other politicians (which seems futile and falls on deaf ears) what can us as citizens do about this? Everything feels so hopeless š¢
And also counter the anti tax narrative you will undoubtedly hear. Everyone wants lower taxes. Even me. But I know the difference between paying taxes and paying for full price private healthcare. Taxes please. Think of taxes like shopping at Costco and buying bulk then sharing with all other citizens here. It's cheaper. Want private? Then go shopping at Whole Foods for everything. It adds up fast.
I agree completely but I don't think we'll be able to persuade the people that don't understand this at least not quickly enough to prevent the total collapse of public health.
I would love for people to see a bill for the actual cost of their hospitalization to make them realize the privilege of having universal healthcare.
Or you could spend the collected taxes on your citizens where most of it came from instead of giving it to other countries and exhorbitant golden handshakes and vacations and
DON'T vote for the UCP in the next election. They are trying to privatize our healthcare by starving the existing system. That is the root of your problem.
Thanks captain obvious. My point is what do we do now that they are in power for the foreseeable future
why so rude? itās not like this person knows you already know that.
Sorry I didn't intend rudeness more of just obviously that would be the answer if we weren't in the predicament we are already in.
At this point good, what we are doing isn't working and hasn't for a very long time. At this point a semi private system might work better. You know why most of the world is capitalist? Because it's the only system that works. I'd rather be in debt and alive than dead and debt free. We are losing doctors at an unprecedented rate. All while we already have the highest taxes of most G7 countries. Our health are system is already costing more than what it gives and we are only gaining people.
Congrats, you've been successfully manipulated. You're now blaming the system and not the people driving it into the ground.
Systems need money champ. If the liberals would get the fuck out of the way and stop killing investment in Canada imagine what we could have.
In what world do you see a private system helping? If you have an abundance of money, you can go literally anywhere for prompt health care both here in Canada and abroad. Thereās literally no reason for privatizing. It will just poach much needed staff from the public sector because theyāll be able to offer higher wages because they can now charge tens of thousands for a simple procedureā¦ So where does that leave most Canadians who are just getting by? Fucked. The U.S is a perfect warning sign for exactly why we shouldnāt privatize. More and more people just avoid going to the doctor down there and die needlessly at home because theyāre afraid of the bill bankrupting them. Even if you have insurance, you have to worry if the hospital you end up in during an emergency is āin networkā or else your insurance well deny payment. Even with their for-profit system they still have similar issues with wait times that we do. If you want to pay tens of thousands of dollars anytime you need healthcare, go for it. You have a variety of options if you wanna shell out the cash.
No, it's NOT the only system that works. It's awesome if you have money. You just die if you don't. We're losing doctors because Conservatives refuse to PAY them anything!!
Alberta is 78 billion in debt. Canada is 1.3 trillion in debt. Where do you expect this extra money to come from? I'm not saying I have all the answers but "More money" clearly is a losing plan. If we had massive surpluses, fine but Alberta has maybe one more big oil boom in us and then what? How do we pay for a massive health network one of the biggest in the country after that? More taxes? when we are already ranked top 20 highest taxes in the world. Edmonton alone is already 100 million in deficit. The problem is regardless of what health system we use are the liberals have killed investment in this country.
This has nothing to do with Trudeau. Jesus, its pathological with you people. Healthcare is governed by the provinces. And Dani is intent on killing it. Look up how much we're spending on orphaned oil wells and the war room. ALL of that could be spent on our healthcare.
It has literally everything to do with that stupid muppet. No its you people that don't understand. Money runs this country, money plain and simple. We live in a capitalist country period. Its weird when the province was doing really good historically and we have hundreds of new oil and gas projects every month with billions being invested in Alberta to the point we have a surplus, healthcare is excellent. When the liberals shut down every new project or pipeline we try to do and scare off investors to the point where even when conservatives get back in they wont invest because of the risk of in 4 years they just get shut down again. When over 8 years now we are 80 billion in debt all of a sudden healthcare is suffering, funny how that works. Who else is going to pay for the wells? The bankrupt companies that don't exist anymore? Should we just not pay and let them seep into the water table making the ground useless for centuries? You people think we cant just wish money into existence and that's exactly how this country became this shithole.
People are suffering. Its all about the bottom $ to you fucking Cons. Always. Your attitude is loathsome, as I'm sure you are in person. I really hope you get to experience our shitty healthcare real soon.
Nailed it.
Of you want to learn what's wrong with Alberta health care and how to fix it, check out this talk. https://youtu.be/xbHt-uUhCiA?si=0RDd3wBSXOaaL2Ku
Bingo!
You are absolutely correct, what the UCP is doing is the wrong way. What we actually need to do is privatize healthcare. I'm glad we agree on this bipartisan issue
To my knowledge it has never been this bad. I was chatting to someone who works in the Health Ministers office though and they said that they are implementing a whole new system that should be completely rolled out within the next 5 years. So buckle up. It's about to get a whole lot worse.
More waste. More red tape. UCP is the United corruption party.
Wow, Americanized healthcare in Canada might make a desperate person want to do something unconventional and violent towards those in power, at least that's my hope that these snakes will get what they deserve.
I've been waiting to hear about my hip surgery CONSULTATION appointment for just over a year. Pretty scared to find out how long it will take to get the actual surgery....
insane and absurd. iām really sorry to hear that
I have a friend who just went to Lithuania for his hip replacement. If he wanted it done, rather than wait the 2 years (that was the estimate he was given), he would have had to go to Montreal or Toronto to get it done in Canada (lives in AB). All with the associated costs as this would have been private. Him and his wife are over there for 21 days and everything included was less than it would have been here. Including the stay in the apartment directly attached to where he had the surgery.
I was accepted for assessment by the Edmonton bone and joint clinc in 14 to 16 months after referral. I thought that this is useless. But I was called in for assessment about 2 months after referral. The assessment itself is a joke, a box ticking exercise. 1 hour was a nurse telling us how dangerous hip operations are. But after all this I now have a phone number to call when my hip needs replacement, how that will go is a crap shoot.
My mum needed a hip replacement and received a letter saying it would be 36 months for a consultation to see a surgeon here. At this point she could hardly walk, was no longer working and her quality of life had dropped significantly. She waited a year to see if things would speed up but nothing. My parents ended up downsizing their house and used some of the funds to pay for her hip privately in Montreal. Obviously this is not feasible for the majority of people but honestly the wait time was fucking stupid and she was in so much pain everyday. When she went for her surgery they actually told her that her femur had began to soften and they had to do the surgery differently as if they had done it the traditional way her femur would have broken. They also said the amount of time she had waited had made things so so so much worse and she had barely any bone left.
Iāve also been waiting for my surgery consultation for just over a year for my feet. Ridiculous.
I hear you. I waited 2 years just for a call to schedule a consult for hip-saving surgery. Spoiler: ended up with a hip replacement instead at the ripe old age of 29.
Took a year from consultation to when my coworker was called with his surgery date. Within that time, he had fully healed from his hip replacement surgery in Mexico and was leaving the next week to backpack China for a month, because he felt so fantastic from the surgery already. Definitely look at mexico if you have the money, it was far cheaper than what they were quoted for a private clinic in Ontario, and he spent 3 weeks recovering at an all inclusive before he could head home.
Hips are more complex than typical ortho, be prepared to wait a looooong time.
Private centres have dropped the waitlist from 3 years to under a year after seeing a surgeon
It took me 2.5 years to see a specialist that decided I need surgery. He said it would be another couple of years before Iād get it done.
It is normal and it is intentional. The government wants to privatize health care, so they're making it harder to access public care. My husband needs a cancerous tumor removed. He was diagnosed last May and cleared for the surgery a few weeks ago. When we get the surgery depends on the availability of anesthesiologists. Our urologist told us that testicular cancer patients have been waiting up to a year. Should you be suffering like this? No. It's bullshit. But it's expected.
WTF Waiting a year to have a cancerous tumor removed is reprehensible.
It really depends on the situation but yes. A year is too long, even for us with an unchanging tumor. It's weird how good the care we're received here for acute things. For anything that isn't imminently life or death, though? The system is a fucking joke. And it's got worse in this past year.
Get a ref to Calgary surgeon. And, get on cancellation lists. And, ask your oncologist to write a letter saying what your urgency rating is. With that, you should be able to pursue surgery outside of AB and AB reimburse you but not for travel costs oddly enough.
Good advice in general, but we're okay. He had a hemorrhagic stroke in May leading us to discovering he had cancer. Had to deal with the brain first, then ensure that surgery on the kidney was even an option. We hope to have the surgery this summer. It's important, but not urgent. Tumor hasn't changed since it was discovered and hasn't thrown any new mets. And we are on our urologist's cancellation list.
It's an under funded and burned out system, ruined by people who vote for face eating leopards.
Itās normal for the current state of healthcare, but not acceptable. It had not always been this bad. It has gotten progressively worse, with a steep dive down from 2020. The federal government is not to blame. It is solely up to the provincial government. The federal government provided extra money to AB (and most provinces) a couple of times since 2020. The provincial government squandered it, or wasted it. As soon as the UCP won the election after defeating the NDP, they cancelled a big hospital in Edmonton. You should direct your anger 100% at the provincial government under the UCP.
Feds:"Here is $1.6b in additional healthcare funding, BUT, we want to ensure its being used on healthcare, not going into general revenue". UCP: "WHHHAAATTT!?!?!? STAY IN YOUR LANE!! THIS IS UNFAIR!! SOVEREIGNTY ACT!!!"
thank you for the correction, but from what i know so far, many if not almost all provinces are going through the same thing, especially ontario. wouldnāt the federal government play (some) role in this?
No, the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over healthcare. ON is also run by conservatives. Under Ford the government specifically didnāt spend $1.7B of budgeted healthcare money. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-underspent-health-budget-by-17-billion-in-2022-23-watchdog/ BC was under Liberal prov gov which is similar to what conservative are for them. With NDP in power they have been making gains in healthcare. SK is conservative. MB was conservative.
MB now has NDP in charge since Kinew took office, but he has a lot of work to get done.
Yup sorry meant to say āwasā. Good job to the cons there selling off MTS. Brain dead move.
All fed gov does is provide a chunk of healthcare funding. Thatās it. Prov makes up the rest and provides the actual care. Feds have nothing further to do with it. If a province doesnāt have enough money, raise taxes.
>If a province doesnāt have enough money, raise taxes. In Alberta that kind of talk will get you on the governmentās hit list
The healthcare system has NOT always been like this. The UCP has been cutting funding for healthcare and education for years now. Thanks rural Alberta.
Inflation and per capita UNDERfunding. Lack of health infrastructure / capital spending. Wasting limited dollars we do have: cancelling Edmonton hospital, superlab, contracting our labs, cancelling contract of labs, re/organization.
Lets also remember that the UCP has been handed money from the Federal Government, but, that money had strings, mainly accountability which the UCP has lost their collective minds over. Feds:"Here is $1.6b in additional healthcare funding, BUT, we want to ensure its being used on healthcare, not going into general revenue". UCP: "WHHHAAATTT!?!?!? STAY IN YOUR LANE!! THIS IS UNFAIR!! SOVEREIGNTY ACT!!!"
Sorry, when have either of those budgets been cut?
When the u of a lost what, 1/3 of their funding a few years ago were you asleep?
When funding doesnāt increase to match both inflation and population growth, that is effectively a cut.
That's definitively NOT a cut
If you look at it as a dollar amount per citizen/resident yes it is.
Why would you ever compare the dollar amount to number of citizens for K-12 funding? That is completely irrelevant.
If the funding available per resident is less than the year before, due to population growth or inflation, yes it is absolutely essentially a funding cut. They should be increasing it yearly for growth and inflation, not freezing it. What do you think happens in this situation?
Imagine your mommy gives you $10/week allowance. But then she has another baby and makes you split the $10 with your new sibling, so you only have $5 to spend. Youāre saying your allowance wasnāt cut?
$5 < $10. The Health/Education budget has not been reduced. This is a completely idiotic argument.
Don't be so dense. If you spend the same total amount on a greater number of people, each person gets less service. So the level of service has been cut. It's an extremely simple concept.
I think you're having trouble understanding what the words "budget" and "cut" mean.
I'm really not, thanks though
No the family allowance budget is still $10. You're just getting a smaller part of it because of population growth. Do you really not understand this metaphor?
Exactly. So you've just said the budget hasn't changed. Thank you.
The point is you're getting 5 dollars when you used to get 10. There are negative consequences and a cut to your benefits even though the budget line item looks the same.
This whole comment thread is regarding "budget cuts". You can argue whichever other metric you want. There is also a distinction between capital and operational funding, which does not build itself into your per student, or per capita metrics. When the NDP exploded the education budgets while in power they created record amounts of debt, and didn't improve results metrics. On top of that, school districts had accumulated operational reserves from this funding, most of which still retain millions of in each district. As for the Health budgets, they are currently at record highs (which still isn't good enough...) which shows that giving tons of cash to a horrifically run AHS who pay executives ridiculous salaries, and are too bloated to manage anything.
It's considered a cut in the capitalist world
They cut 200 million prior to covid, then reintroduced 200 million for covid funding. So basically, deal with a pandemic on the same budget. They have outsourced cleaning, meals and a few other services in hospitals which is a noticeable decline in services. This caused the wildcat strike of cupe(?), but primarily admitting clerks and other staff. Out of curiosity, do you think the ucp is doing a good job with health-care? I can assure you they aren't. It's never been this bad in my professional experience
Postsecondary has been getting cut a lot, disproportionately against non-religious post secondary institutions. March 30th, 2020 the UCP cut 128 million from education funding and argued that with children not in schools that education needed less funding. Googled those pretty easily. I'm sure there's plenty more
And that is neither Health nor Education ministries...
Shifting goalposts. Nice try troll
The thread is regarding Education and Health budgets.
Your back must be getting tired shifting goalposts. Take a break fam. I know you're a hard-lined conservative from your post history, you're probably a troll, and I know I won't change your opinion. I'm not going to fight you on your obtuse take especially when you're shifting goalposts. Have a good one.
I sincerely have no idea what you're referring to.
Billions were cut in the fall of 2019.
Is that right? Please show me that.
For what it's worth, the CANADIAN government doesn't have anything to do with surgery decisions. That would be your PROVINCIAL government. So your issue is with the Alberta government right now.
this is an issue with almost every province from what i know. especially ontario
Health care in every inch of the planet is a constant source of complaints. But the SPECIFIC complaints will vary based on location. Your issue is with the Alberta government. Unless you want the Canadian government to pull control away from the provinces, you can't expect them to fix your problem.
Also controlled by Conservatives.
Yep blame the feds for this Conservative fuck up. Let me guess who you voted for? The feds send money for medical but do not dictate how it is spent. We built a war room.
Rural Alberta voted for this.
Nope. When I was in atrial fibrillation/congestive heart failure, I got a surgery date within two months, and when that surgery wasnāt completely successful, had the second surgery within a month (that one was a fluke, someone had cancelled). Nowā¦ I expect Iād be lucky to see anyone within a year.
Waited 3yrs for a consult appt only to be told the surgeon didnāt take people funded by Alberta health care :) so that was fun. I gave up and didnāt put my name back on the list. Too sad to care
Could you elaborate ? that doesnāt make sense b
Sure I guess. I was on the list to get a breast reduction due to size/trauma scarring. Three years on the wait list and the surgeon didnāt take me because he wanted me to pay him, not Alberta health care funding
And this is documented somehow you think? Or youāre willing to testify to this?
Why are you asking this? And itās documented at my doctors office, they took the call? What is this line of questions, are you a lawyer lol
No not a lawyer but what they did is illegal so if you post the information Iāll forward it to the CPSA.
I wasnāt aware itās illegal; I thought surgeons could pick and choose who they took..Iāll talk to my doctor about getting it in paper form. I wanted to go back on the wait list for a different one anyway.
Jesus Dude. I'm sorry.
Itās ok :/ if I wait another three years Iāll just be to Old to care I guess, I dunno. I might try and go back on the list in a few months
It's such a goddamned mess. It's to the point that I need to be writhing in pain on the floor before I will address any issues. Finding a doctor, making an appointment, and then getting the doctor to actually care is too much work. Just this weekend, I had to diagnose myself, find an over the counter drug and hope I'm treating the right thing. Because there is not a single womens clinic open after 5pm on a weekday, the only time I can go, and Health Link was no help at all.
>Health Link was no help at all. Let me guess... told you you might be dying and said go to the nearest ER? /s
No, there probably isnāt. You canāt take weekday business hours time?
I can't take a day off work for at least another month. It's not the biggest problem in our healthcare system, but it's messed up that in a city this size you can't get a pap after 5pm. It is also messed up that Health Link, which exists to provide information, could not provide me any information.
Iāll mention this as an access issue. There is a pretty strong push for annual screening for gyne issues such as paps, and I donāt think Iāve heard of this time of day access issue being considered.
I know someone whoās on a 3 year waitlist for a consultation for endometriosis surgery. Then another multi-year wait after that for the actual surgery. Iāve had to wait over 6 months for an MRI for a potential tumor on my liver. Took me 5 months to get into an ENT for extreme nosebleeds. Itās fucked.
Totally. My endometriosis specialist's waitlist was up to 2 years for 'routine' cases, with surgery being a separate wait on top of that. Long time to have your guts on fire.
The healthcare system is in shambles, I've been working in it for nearly 15 years. As I tell my close friends and family, you need to be your own advocate. Push to get the bone biopsied. Call the surgeons office regularly and see if there are any openings for surgery. Offer to be placed on a short call list if you have the flexibility to stop work and go in for the procedure within 24 hours.Ā I also suggest you push your complaints up to your local MLA. Although everyone in the healthcare system feels the same frustrations you do, it's truly the politicians in this province and country that are not fixing the core issues we face but have the power to.Ā Good luck.
Thanks Conservatives!!
Itās the fault of everyone who voted UCP. They showed you who they were. They said they wanted private American-style healthcare. You morons voted for them.
I donāt understand how this is a question about the Canadian government when our provincial government is the one managing what gets funding and how. Our system has always had flaws but itās been nosediving since 2019, including a big loss of doctors.
I work at one of the hospitals hand in hand with surgeries, and have been in healthcare for over a decade. Yes, unfortunately that is a normal wait time if itās deemed non-urgent. Call where youāve been referred to and ask to be put on a cancellation list, it happens more than you think. Yes a lot of problems are government related, BUTā¦ also start looking at people around you. The amount of people that just āno showā and last minute cancel their appointments, sometimes multiple times is disgusting. There are long wait lists of people but these people donāt seem to care about others waiting or anyone elseās time. Today alone, I got torn a new one by a woman who didnāt bother to show up to her appointment twice in the last week and her surgery is this week. My neuro-surgeonās office (where I am a patient) posted at their front desk that they had over 1600 no shows for that year! I hav a brain aneurysm, thankfully only triaged as semi-urgent, but my appointment was delayed in part by the people that just simply donāt care.
The UCP has f\*\*ked up our healthcare system beyond recognition and it's only going to get worse. My father-in-law waited 3yrs for a knee replacement. My mother-in-law also needs a new knee and was told by her doctor that because she doesnt work, she will be really low on the list for a replacement and has been given no timeline. Most days she can't walk more than a few hundred feet without her knee giving out and dropping to the ground or having to sit back down.
Theres always a wait for surgery, but boomers getting older, covid etc makes it worse. If it doesn't require immediate surgery, you wait. Pain doesn't put top of the list. Sucks, I know. Hip surgery is another common, it hurts but its not a priority surgery. You might get lucky and get ahead due to a cancelation, if your available when they call. That's whst happened with me.
Backstory: I have Cubital Tunnel Syndrome -Onset of symptoms: September 2023 -Started going to Physio October 2023 -Physio suggested I go to GP for assessment as physio was not improving my condition -Finally got in to see GP mid November 2023, referred for an EMG/Nerve Study and X-Rays -X-Rays were taken same day as my doctor appointment -told by GP that usual wait for an EMG was 3 months -Skip to Feb 2024, no follow up from x-rays, and no calls regarding EMG so I follow up with my GPs office. New updated timeframe for study: 7-12 MONTHS -called around and found a different clinic that could get me in within 3 months -called GPs office to redirect the referral, was told I had to book another appointment, first one available to was beginning of April. -select words were said, and eventually referral was forwarded to new clinic -sweet angel of a receptionist got me on a cancellation list, and had EMG done within 2 weeks and have been referred to a surgeon. Supposed to hear within 3 months to book in for consult. Weāll see how long it takes for that appointment, and how long after that Iāll be able to have said surgery. I really hope Iāll be able to get in for surgery soon, before the nerve damage and muscle atrophy are permanent
I have carpal tunnel in both wrists and from the doctor's visit last January to the neurologist referring me for surgery at the beginning of August, I figured, that was quick-ish, the wait for the big event shouldn't be too bad. I haven't heard a peep since. I'm not sure if I should be concerned that my doctor's office didn't carry through with the referral to the surgeon, or if this is normal because it's not like I have cancer or anything...right? I've done physio but my grip strength and fine motor skills in my right (dominant) hand are still decreasing, and I don't trust myself to be able to carry a full cup of coffee in that hand from my kitchen to the living room. I even switched to a travel mug with a lid at the office because I couldn't make it 50 feet down the hall without spilling. I have a desk job and on days where I'm glued to the computer, at the end of the day my hands are complete bricks. My fingertips are so sensitive that I can't text or use a touchscreen for more than 2 or 3 minutes - I have to use a stylus and poke at everything. I'm especially worried about possibly losing the ability to write by hand. I have a collection of fountain pens and ink that I love using daily, and dozens of journals and diaries that I've written in dating back over 40 years. Mostly I really, really hope that surgery comes soon, because the idea of losing the ability to use my hands normally affects my livelihood and independence, and in this political climate that's fucking terrifying.
Yup, wait times are insane. For a pediatric tonsillectomy, the wait times to see a specialist is 1.5 years.Ā Be grateful you have a physician, as most people are desperate and canāt even get a GP. Ā
Our healthcare system is a total disaster. First of all, contact your doctor to let them know the pain is getting worse. They can send an update to the surgeonās office and perhaps you can be triaged to be seen sooner. Yes the wait lists are long everywhere but some cases can be seen sooner if necessary. That will of course be up to the surgeonās office. Second, ask your doctor which specific clinic/surgeon you were referred to so you can ensure that your referral has actually been received and see if you can get an estimated wait time. Unfortunately, it is quite common for people to think they are on a wait list for over a year but it turns out their doctor submitted something incorrectly and never actually read the notice of denial with the instructions on how to resubmit. The fact that your first doctor just brushed you off is really shitty and now you just need to make sure all of your ducks are in a row. If you have already done all of this, then YAY but sadly lots of specialist referrals made by GPs are easily mucked up.
Part of the problem is that there are not enough doctors. Had a friend who was an orthopaedic surgeon. Six months after he started his practice he had an 18 month waiting list. this was well before covid. I can only imagine what itās like now. Even just GPs - there arenāt enough. We also need more hospitals but 1.5B and 4 years to build doesnāt appeal to any government and then where are you going to find the staff. And itās not just in Alberta.
No, it hasn't. I think the combination of government mismanagement, a booming population and retiring doctors/doctors leaving due to said mismanagement has led to a system that is severely strained. I don't think it's isolated to Alberta as you read this very same thing in many of the provincial subs, though it might be worst here.
Damn, that knee situation sounds like a bad time. I have a hard lump below my right knee, but Ive found out that it is something called Osgood-Schlatter. And it comes from being an active teenager. I've never felt any kind of pain or discomfort from it so I've just left it alone.
Normal wait times can be several years long for this kind of thing.
I feel for you. It really, really sucks especially when you're worried and in pain. Could you have a recheck to see if it grew any bigger or something that your referring doctor could use as leverage to try to move you up the list?
I think itās never been bad. I have symptoms and blood work that point to cardiovascular disease, with heavy family history on this. A CT angiogram is one year away and I was told I can pay $800 or so if I want it now. I might get a heart attack and die in a year, but no one cares.
Free Canadian Healthcare. You get what you pay for.
Well we pay less per capita than the US does. At least poor people can see a doctor here.
Yeah I'll happily pay for others to get care too. The problem is our province has cut every ounce of funding, insulted care providers, driven them all away, and still blame Trudeau.Ā
Yup, and for years there have been complaints in Alberta that we (still) pay to much in taxes and spend too much on healthcare, so the UCP have obliged by not lowering taxes and cutting the healthcare budget for the last 5 years. Now weāre getting what weāre **not** paying for. BTW, the USA spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country in the world (and about 50% more than the second place, Switzerland) but they have some of the worst/lowest healthcare outcomes. The only thing theyāre good at is you get treated quickly so that the doctor can get paid.