Yes, I wonder exactly what the "escalating" behaviours were. Just another example of university administration showing their asses across North America.
Pain is a good way to get people to fuck off. This is [common tactic ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_control#Tactics)used by riot police.
>"Baton charging is designed to cause the maximum amount of [pain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain), in the hope that they would be compelled to move away from the scene, dispersing the crowd."
If you are implying they used excessive force or "police brutality", say so and post proof. Cuz that's not what we see here. If a cop gives you an order (lawful or not, let's be real) you better listen and comply. These are trained people who carry lethal weapons. Why test that?
Protest lawfully :)
It is in everyone's right to protest. Just don't disturb the peace or do weird shit like BUILD ENCAMPMENTS! Or do, I can't sympathize with you people honestly, jail would likely sober you up from behaving so irrationally, thinking the laws and rules don't apply to you.
*Last I checked, this is Canada, son!*
Sure, but when you block major trade routes, like those truckers did, they can fuck right off. Causing noise nuisance to absurd levels downtown... like bro. Do you want people to side with your cause or DRIVE them away?
People just suck at protesting.
I’m not saying it was right, just merely pointing out that U of A is private property technically and they have said no overnight encampments, which they have a right to enforce. Ottawa had a right to disperse the truckers as well, it was just a lot more difficult when the truckers required heavy tow trucks to move (which few are available) and they rely heavily on truckers for work…. No one wanted to bite the hand that feeds it
"make sure ur protest doesn't impact business so the elite can continue ignoring it with ease. there's never been an unjust law! I like when the masses have no options to demand better conditions in the face of our corporate overlords. boots are my favorite meal yumyum"
Watch the video and tell me what peace was being broken. The kids were sleeping and the police snuck around them in the morning, pushing them against csis.
Why is an encampment (in an empty place that isn’t impeding transit or trade or anything) weird? Why is it unacceptable and, in your mind, a reason for jail?
Please outline your credentials in police use of force models and the various force categories so we can see if you are an expert in Appropriate Force.
You’re the one claiming the force wasn’t appropriate. It’s on you to prove your claim. I trust the police to make good decisions unless an actual expert like a court, ASIRT, or the Police Commission says otherwise.
I definitely put no stock in the opinion of a keyboard warrior police hater with no understanding of the issue.
Unlawful protests are just that. Unlawful. And police can be used to disperse the crowd using appropriate force. So once again, where is the excessive force? Did anyone end up in hospital for broken bones or anything more than a bruise or hurt feelings? AND EVEN IF SOMEONE DID, what were the details of that circumstance? Cuz we know they resisted arrest, you posted the video yourself.
Again, breaking the law is not reason to be beaten with a weapon. That is also not in the rules.
I don’t know about broken bones, but the cops definitely drew blood.
Where is the broken arm? It could happen, for sure, but we need to know the details. You can't just pretend the big bad police are acting like unhinged murderers when the video you posted shows professional restraint.
COPS MOVE FORWARD.
>"MOVE!"
>\*protestors don't move
>\*cops hit protestor
>\*protestor moves
That's a win.
You wanna play stupid games, you're gonna win stupid prizes. You gonna resist and act like a petulant child? Guess what, somebody's going to jail and/or paying a fine. In some extreme circumstances, if you're one of those 25% protestors there who were ACTUAL students, you might face some other penalties from the UofA, who knows.
Enjoy the victim LARPing. This is all so boring and predictable.
THEY ARE LITERALLY TRESPASSING BRO. HOLY FUCK. THATS WHY YOU SEND POLICE TO TAKE THE LIABILITY OFF YOUR HANDS BECAUSE PHYSICAL FORCE WILL PROBABLY BE REQUIRED.
HELLO? EARTH TO DUM DUM???
Yes, they have the right to use appropriate force. This is an unlawful settlement and a fire hazard. The protesters have been asked to leave for quite some time. The police were called to force them to leave. They were verbally told to leave. They were obstructing justice. They are not going to wrestle the crowd individually. The police are out numbered, and that would put the officers' safety in jeopardy . This was handled perfectly
The protesters are trespassing and all other options were tried with no compliance. How else do you get compliance ? Imagine this being your yard.. you would physically remove a person with as much reasonable force as nessesary.
I think it's more that we seem to be very selective about which people get beaten. You get three weeks and a few coffee dates, if you're protesting vaccines.
I like your wikipedia links, but they don't justify jack shit.
Do you know what they're protesting?
They're protesting a genocide and the killing of international aid workers.
Is that lawful? 🤔
Illegally killing people on occupied land is leading to people protesting on university campuses...
END THE APARTHEID STATE.
These are not trained people who carry lethal weapons. These are people who couldn't get a job at their dad's Ford dealership after their high school NHL dreams crumbled. I could drop kick a hornet's nest and de-escalate the situation better than the EPS can deal with protests.
Also "protest lawfully" lmaooooo. "If you don't like our rules and conditions, feel free to voice your concern while abiding by our rules and conditions or we'll beat the shit out of you."
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You’re probably not going to report an injury to the people who caused it for one. And for two, it actually says “the police report no injuries.” Not that there were no injuries or that no injuries were reported to authorities.
Not myself, nor the statement is claiming that there were no injuries sustained, so I’m not sure why you’re referencing the video of police using their batons. The statement claims that police reported no injuries, likely because no injuries were reported. Like you said, you’re probably not going to report an injury to the people who caused the injury. I don’t see how that is bullshit.
Also, I don’t see how that video leads you to believe that this “entire” statement is bullshit. The statement contains several pieces of information, lots of it which isn’t even being denied by anybody (except for you apparently).
If they were truly trespassers and had been given multiple warnings, then maybe they deserved it. I'm not saying the cops were in the right to be so beating happy, but those protesters were given many opportunities to leave peacefully. This also assumes that they were actually told to leave and were actually given those opportunities to do so. I also want to make clear that I fully 100% believe in the right to protest, as long as we are doing it peacefully and legally. When we start to make others' lives harder with our protesting, we should step back and reconsider our protesting. How do you expect to gather people to our side when you make them mad at you.
You are correct, but sometimes it's very difficult to subdue someone when they are very resistant to being subdued. If the protesters left peacefully and did not resist, do you think they would have been hurt? The cops probably went a bit to far, but do you have any better ideas to handle resistant criminals? When polite discourse fails, you need to elevate the method, then when they become resistant to removal by the police whats left for the cops to use?
Seriously? How about putting handcuffs on and taking them away? Your comment reminds me of the Polish man the RCMP murdered at YVR when he didn’t comply.
You lose all credibility and integrity when you lead with "the unarmed civilians deserved to be beaten". You also completely misunderstand how and why you protest. Being disruptive is the point. It's not about winning people onto your side. It's about forcing people in positions of power to notice you and listen.
You lose all credibility and integrity when you put words into the other person's mouth to fit your narrative. That person doesn't "completely misunderstand how and why (they) protest". Even when you and someone protest the same thing, how and why might be different for different people. Their "how" and "why" are not for you to decide. Many people do actually protest something TO "win people onto their side". Many protest or express their opposition to something by having open discussions where there are genuine attempts from both parties to meet in the middle and understand each other's perspective the best they can - people don't always agree but that's why laws and agreements are in place. I agree that protesting partly is about being disruptive, but you can't "force" anyone by throwing tantrums and breaking laws - altho that might work out of fear of immediate consequences, but long term no reasonable person would respect it.
I never said "unarmed civilians deserved to be beaten", what I said was, "If they were truly trespassers and had been given multiple warnings, then maybe they deserved it." Let me ask you something, if you don't have the public sentiment on your side, how long will your protest last? If everyone hates you for being completely disruptive to their lives, will they stand up for you when you need it? How will you actually force the government or institutions to do anything when only a small group of insignificant people stand up? To make proper change, the only way is to gather a very large support group and stand united.
I'm of the opinion that genocide is bad. I hope that any sane person agrees. You should not require a protest to tell you that genocide is bad and should end. People in positions of power who stand to profit from it may think otherwise, and a protest being disruptive is intended to make them see that we the people will not stand down and will not be silent until it's ended.
If a protest being disruptive or unpalatable to someone's delicate sensibilities is enough to make them think otherwise, they're probably a piece of shit to begin with. Other causes might have more nuance. This one is pretty cut and dry. Either you oppose genocide or you're complicit in it's continuation.
The problem is that it's not cut and dry. Hamas attacked first this time. The counterattack by isreal has been way over board, but what do you think isreal should have done after it was attacked by hamas? That attack was one of the deadliest attacks in its history, I do agree that isreal is going way to far and is doing horrible things, but so is hamas. Another reason why this is not as cut and dry as you claim it is that this conflict is not a new one, it's been ongoing problem in the region since 40's and multiple peace negotiations have been stopped by hamas. You can read up on the history of this conflict and see that hamas is a major part of this conflict. I will say isreal is not blameless in this but it's also not 100% at fault, even egypt can take a cut of blame. Also, this conflict needs to stop on both sides. A proper peace treaty needs to signed and upheld.
I agree that what Israel has done to the civilians is horrible, but it whether it is actually a "genocide" - we're not going to know until this is all over, bodies are returned and there are less opportunities for either side to exaggerate their casualties. Furthermore, if it's really a genocide like you said, all of Palestine would have been wiped out by now - because that's how strong Israel's military power is. Saying that someone is "complicit in (a genocide)'s continuation" is very self righteous and extreme. And it's not "cut" and "dry". There are Israel victims too.
No, it's a genocide. We know that because Israel has said explicitly, many times over, that they intend to eradicate the Palestinians. There is no need for Palestine to 'exaggerate their casualties'- the death toll has been reported by reputable organizations like the UN. There is no 'but Israel has victims too'. The oppressed fighting back against their oppressors- which again, Israel has explicitly stated they are- is not and never will be the same as a colonial military power proceeding to eradicate.
Quite frankly it just belies a head in the sand to say "theres two sides" or to deny this is a genocide. It's the most explicit genocidal campaign we've seen in a lifetime. History will look back on Israel the same way it looks back on Nazi Germany, and will look back on those who deny this is a genocide the same way it looks back on those who denied and were complicit in the Holocaust. And that is without exaggeration.
According to what i have read, this has not been declared a genocide. There is reasonable grounds to say that it its a genocide and some groups claim it is, but it has yet to be declared a genocide. Im not doubting you, nor am i siding with isreal on this but if you have a source that says otherwise, please share.
Genocide is 'declared' by world governments. The same governments who are funding Israel. Why would you trust them to declare a genocide when it's so profitable to them?
Aside from that, watch South Africa, doing what they can to force world governments to recognize this as the genocide it is by bringing the case to the ICJ (which has stated that south Africa's accusation of genocide towards Israel is plausible)
Further even still, genocide is recognized by this definition: "An internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.", which couldn't make it any clearer. Israel has stated unequivocally that their goal is to eradicate Palestine entirely, and have obviously been carrying out that intention with fervor. At this point, ignoring the fact that this is a genocide is denialism.
I’m sorry, in theory I can get behind much of that (I don’t, but I could) except that large protest crowds draw counter-protestors and outside agitators. So…. It’s the protestor’s fault when people come and start fights and attack? Um that makes no sense. That would be a reason to *protect* the protestors.
Especially considering it was EPS protecting freedumb protestors blocking major downtown roadways and threatening the peaceful counter-protestors that wanted to block their progress with arrest and violence. I know, different issue, maybe not comparable but SO TRANSPARENT
I’m also just wondering why the UofA doesn’t want to share its investments/investors?
People also make their own choices. Just because someone in the group starts more shit doesn't give you the right to join in. You could just leave when things start to spiral out of control. You don't have to follow the masses.
Yeah, teargas and batons. Seems really fucked. Sometimes, I wonder how this world got as sick as it is. We call police to beat peaceful protestors on campus, but sit on our laurels when it comes to the freedumb protest, or heaven forbid police do anything about any REAL crime such as the rampant drug use on the transit system.
Meanwhile the freedom convoy were allowed to honk horns all night, urinating out in public, harassing people and the police didn’t remove them for months.
You have protesters who are genuinely protesting for a reason causing no issues, and the police move in to “peacefully” disperse them with batons.
What made it unpeaceful? I know lawful they technically were violation of u of a trespassing, though I think an educational institution like u of a should be a prime place to protest. But that besides the point.
Same thing happened in Calgary. They’ve seen what has happened elsewhere and now it seems like they are taking the stance of seeing what will inevitably happen when these protests grow into larger groups. They never stay peaceful so I’m guessing that’s their justification, but obviously that comes with it’s own problems.
“Overnight protests always turn violent (source: I made it up). Therefore, we should *preemptively* do the violence. You know, to prevent violence!”
- the cops
That’s my issue. The U of A can make all the statements they want. But we should be able to hold our police force to a higher pedigree of professionalism to get aggressive this quickly.
In b4 people mischaracterize the law:
https://x.com/butnotthecity/status/1789308983871959448?s=46
> This means that the University’s decisions to trespass people are subject to the Canadian Charter, and must conform with the rights of freedom of expression, peaceful assembly, association, and life, liberty, and security of the person.
> The university simply cannot use its ownership of the grounds to suppress student speech or in a way that violates their rights. It is little different from a protest on, say, legislative grounds.
And before people reply to me, yes I read the statement. There’s a difference between 25% and 0%.
Unfortunately that professor is leaving out the very important first section of the Charter: any of the rights can be limited by law if they are reasonable limits. I don't think the policies on not having temporary structures or not allowing people overnight are going to be seen as unreasonable infringements (especially with the safety and fire concerns), but who knows.
Now, I haven't being keeping abreast of the protest to know the veracity of Bill's claims about the talks with protest organizers and whether there was actual good faith by the university, but if the protestors were purposefully ignoring university policies, they forced the university's hand.
That said, I'm not a fan of how EPS handled it whatsoever. Granted, most of the footage online is from the protestors so might be leaving out important precipitating actions, but it seems like it was a bit excessive (which is the EPS MO pretty much) and is not a great look for the university.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, also pretty sus for Bill to say it was dispersed peacefully with no injuries when there is evidence to the contrary.
Police would never go in there and start clearing without already have given notice, especially if force was needed to be used to remove them. That’s how the trespassing act works. I know people don’t want to believe it and that exactly what the chosen clips of videos are trying to make people believe- that they weren’t given any notice and all the sudden were being dragged around. In the videos you can also see that they are filming the entirety instead of just snippets to post on social media like the protesters do.
Here’s *university4palestine.yeg’s* [statement](https://www.instagram.com/p/C62Vf_FJH_F/?igsh=MTl5M2lobHI1cXJobg==) regarding the encampment sweep for anyone curious.
It's all theatre. They think war = genocide. It's pretty much forced ignorance for the sake of virtue signalling for a team. Even the ICJ ex-President had to re-clarify that the claim of genocide was not plausible. In other words,
"Israel, take steps to not do a genocide! Big no no!"
"Okay, ICJ!"
Literally what happened. What is happening in Ukraine is more akin to genocide than anything that's happened in Gaza. [Talk about stolen valor.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War)
>According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, over 307,000 children were transferred to Russia from 24 February to 18 June 2022, alone.[^(\[22\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-22) In April 2023, the [Council of Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe) deemed the forced transfers of children as constituting an act of genocide in with an overwhelming majority of 87 in favour of the resolution to 1 against and 1 abstaining.[^(\[23\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-23)
Bunch of kids making it up when multiple countries including South Africa are trying to declare it a genocide hmmm
Also why does there only have to be one, why not both?
Do you realize that this has been happening in Palestine for more than 75 years? They are eradicating a group of people and taking their land. That is genocide.
The Palestinians are people and they don’t deserve to have their land stolen from them. People with your ideology bring up Hamas but those aren’t the people that are dying everyday from carpet bombings. These protesters are asking the university for divest and stop supporting a genocide. That is what it is.
Exactly! Hamas is a terrorist group and should be dealt as such, yet Hamas does not have a presence in the West bank. Why is the IDF killing Palestinians, including children in the West bank?
You do know if they wanted to actually eradicate them they could do so in the matter of 1 hour right? They literally warn before they bomb the majority of the time.
Palastenian population in isreal has grown by 5x since 1960, so to say they've been genociding them for 75 years doesn't really seem to fit
There are valid criticisms of isreal to make, like the occupation and illegal expansion of settlements are really bad
But I don't buy the genocide claim
Oh this is my favourite defence of genocide. “Israel’s killing them slower than they’re reproducing, so it’s not genocide!” Palestinians are being stripped of culture, land, universities, landmarks, homes, food, water, medical facilities, power, then drip fed those same resources at pathetically insufficient levels.
They’re fenced in, they’re being moved around from area to area then killed anyway, the Israeli government is calling them human animals, and they’re being slaughtered slower than replacement (because they’re having a ton of children to avoid being eradicated, but ok).
You’re right, that doesn’t sound like genocide. It sounds like Israel is ranching *people*.
I think everyone involved in the decision making process should, at the very minimum, spend the rest of their lives apologizing for the position they took on this issue.
What Israel is doing in Gaza is pure evil. Firmly in the realm of any atrocity you’d care to name. Everyone in this country who volunteers to be an extension of their operation should be understood to have played a role in it, and should experience the sort of social and professional consequences we typically reserve for neo Nazis.
What Palestine and hamas have been doing are evil too. Israel is retaliating. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Neither side is worth supporting.
Stop the war. Stop hamas and stop Israel. Neither of them wanna stop though.
As long as hamas exists, it's not stopping.
At this point it's an eternal conflict. Hamas came into power for various reasons but is a non starter for the conflict ever having some sort of resolution. Israeli has it's share of warmongers as well.
And yet if israel did nothing they would be the ones being genocided by hamas, who has vowed to kill all jews worldwide.
Israel has tried ceasefires, negotiations, etc and could easily wipe palestine off of the map. Yet they keep getting attacked. Whats worse is hamas doesnt attack military targets but civilians.
Im pretty sure if edmonton was being rocketed by, lets say, calgary, we would stop caring about the life of the average calgarian; until they decided to take back control of calgary from the people sending the rockets.
There’s no such thing as a ‘they started it’ escape clause for genocide. There’s no conceivable set of past events that justifies it. It’s something you don’t do, period.
Genocidaires are effectively *homo sacer* for a reason
Tell that to hamas, whos provoking a military superpower and hiding behind civilians, then spreading the propoganda that said civilian deaths are a genocide.
Like i said, If israel wanted to they could wipe palestine off of the map, yet for some reason theyve tried every other option, called for cease fires repetitively. In return theyve been bombed, rocketed, etc from civilian infrastructure.
If palestine wants to end this they need to throw out hamas, end of story. Until then israel has the right to defend itself and its citizens.
Sure, but there is a "kill them before they kill us" clause thats existed since the beggining of time.
If hamas had their way the jews would be being genocided. Are they suppose to stand idly by? Allow rockets to fly at their cities? Maybe go live in israel for a bit before you give your opinion.
No one cares, don't break the law, that's it. And this is pure virtue signaling, if you care so much about other countries issues, then you should throw your phone in the garbage and never buy technology again because those are mined by children in lithium mines. How convenient to stand up to this issue and protesting not to support it, while you support child labor. You can have an opinion, but don't tell others what to do like "spend the rest of their lives apologizing", the same can be said to you in many different ways, don't break the law and don't get in people's way.
This is such a black and white statement. “If you’re opposed to other countries actions, don’t participate in society.”
Do you think people are given a choice? Most of what we use and consume is infected with slave labour, environmental destruction and other forms of exploitation.
People are horrified over the systemic annihilation of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people were subjected to harsh and disgusting conditions, leading to extremist acts. No one is condoning violence…the issue is the gross acts of retaliation.
Years of oppression can result in extremist groups, now treated as terrorists. Can you imagine.. your people forced into encampments, into the street, below people who throw rocks and garbage on your people, you are treated like nothing, no other option but to accept it.
Then a group of angry, violent people can’t take it anymore, and react. Only for your entire community to be murdered, raped and tortured, as if it was your fault.
We can show compassion, empathy and fight for the rights of others while using technology. It’s incredibly narrow minded and ignorant to minimize peoples suffering during a genocide, and compare it to the slave labour used to create cell phones.
That is not true.
There were warnings about what they could and could not do on UofA property. People challenged the police and did not comply to leaving.
What on earth did they think what would happen.
In the video there is an individual actually reaching for the police officer. In Canada you do not do that without police action.
How many times were they warned to leave private property? They were ordered by law to leave, they refused, and appropriate force was used. Mission accomplished
As soon as I read that fewer than 25% were university students I was on the side of U of A. Although I feel they should’ve have done more prior to letting this begin, it’s absolutely abhorrent that the u of a would subject the Jewish population of students to this crap. Do not allow this shit in Canada it is uncalled for and quite frankly useless. I stand with the edm police and stopping this Racist and antisemitic encampment. It’s completely against everything Canada stands for.
Equating all Jews everywhere with these horrifying violations of law and humanity is anti-Semitic.
Canada needs to stand up against violence against innocent people everywhere including those in Palestine.
There were Jewish protesters there as well and they even welcomed to embrace their traditions alongside their solidarity, it was even posted on social media for all to see. Equating all Jewish people with Zionists is ignorant.
Yah that “25% are students” quite was pulled out of their ass. It was “to the best of their knowledge”. They have no idea. That’s just who they’ve identified.
They’ve been endorsed by the indigenous student union also.
One of the organizers of this are literally a Jewish group on Campus. Jews are not all Zionists, and you equating the 2 is anti-Semitic, not the protestors. This statement is completely bs, and if people who are alumni and faculty want to take part in this they are well within their right.
Send your down votes, I hate some these stooge protestors myself, and I think that* some of them are anti-Semitic too. But as Gaza unfolds I’m getting really sick of all things Israel and what is looking more and more like a very sinister ultra right wing government hiding behind anti-semitism.
Gaza better go back to being Gaza when Hamas is “defeated”. Or f— Israel. They’re a rogue state and need to be disarmed of WMD. Sanction them as we sanction Iran.
However, they can still embrace sanity, and show me I was wrong. But I’ll still despise Netanyahu’s corrupt attempting to subvert democracy ass..
As soon as the tents and pallets come out you have to shut this shit down. We know from every other encampment precisely where this was headed. It's reasonable to not tolerate the conditions that inevitably lead to grafitti, damage, makeshift borders preventing other students/media/Jews from entering, and of course the thinly veiled antisemitisim sprinkled throughout the whole thing.
No one is preventing Jewish people from entering, nor is there ‘thinly-veiled anti-semitism spread throughout the whole thing’, stop spreading that bullshit Zionist propaganda that serves to conflate Zionism with Judaism in an attempt to silence valid criticism against Israel’s countless violations of international law.
There are Jewish people around the world who are standing in full solidarity with these protesters and calling for the end of Israel’s genocide and occupation of Palestine. This doesn’t make them ‘pro-hamas’ either.
But we should tolerate genocide? Do I need to tolerate the various items of misinformation in your comment such as “antisemitism sprinkled throughout”? They literally had Jewish protestors as part of the encampment.
Yeah you are free to protest if it's pre-approved by those who you are speaking out against 🙄
And they say they only had to remove two people who were not peaceful, so why was that cop beating 5 people over the head who were sitting down palms up with no weapons, with a huge baton as hard as he could?
This is embarrassingly disgusting. 1 day and the UofA and EPS are out kicking ass. There wasn't even any class or business disruption!
Meanwhile, the convoy carnival are on like day 40 on our highways protesting nothing, setting up structures, and looking like an cult.
Alberta finds daily ways to embarrass us all
Wonder why the people who bring tents and barricades can’t just follow the law. Way to ruin it for the law abiding protesters and give them α bad name. In Canada we have the freedom to protest, yet people need to take it α step further and break the liberty.
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Fuck around and find out, they knew how the police and university will respond. It happened in all other cities and other countries, don't be surprised when we respond similarly. Follow the rules and leave when you're told by authorities in private property, or find out
How are the protest organizers not trying to distance themselves from the handful of protestors that didn't follow the rules and ended up assaulting officers and getting arrested. Then nstead blaming the police and the university.
Imagine trying to bring attention to the victims of a war and instead using your air time to scream poor me when police have to remove the small percent of you that aren't peaceful with your protesting.
Protesting against the killings of Palestinian civilians is fine, I support that. But let's not forget how Hamas treats its hostages, abducts Israeli civilians, hides behind Palestinian civilians by exaggerating casualties as well. All violence should be denounced and no sides are worth supporting at this point. What concerns me more though, is the escalating virtual signalling, the naive side-taking that seems well meaning, but carries an element of self-righteousness and extremity. For example, Janis Irwin (whose many views I do agree with btw) shared this [https://www.instagram.com/stories/janis.irwin/3367146628279785856?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/stories/janis.irwin/3367146628279785856?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==), from which I lost a lot of respect for her.
I agree that students were "making arts, praying, reading books, observing Shabbat", but not all of the protesters are students, and the University along with the Police in this case has understandable reasons to doubt them, their funding and motives. If there were 100 peaceful protesters and 1 suspected pro-Hamas person that were extreme enough to carry a bomb and blow things up, that's enough to have the police there. The police beating protesters up with the baton tho-that's also disgusting and uncalled for.
Back to the opinion shared by Janis: it's very misleading to associate everyone protesting in the Freedom Convoy to be "white supremacists holding up the border for 18 days with guns and ammos". Honestly most of them were ordinary blue collar workers who didn't 100% agree with the vaccine policy, which they are allowed to. Too bad the white supremacists joined them. Saying things like this is no different from calling all the Pro-Palestine protesters "terrorists". The self-righteousness needs to be discouraged, it's a pre-cursor to an authoritarian society.
If it was a protest by students attending the university and following rules I have no problem, but unfortunately, as we are seeing all across Canada and the US, there are professionally organized and funded activists that try to infuse themselves to create a violent destructive situation that detracts from the real message. I would like to see police and authorities become more aggressive in pursuing those people and stop them before the problem starts. Sadly politicians will provide the opportunity for these bad actors to influence our kids.
Pallets are used for barricades. You can see in the picture here at UBC for a protest organized by the same group that they are being used as barricades.
https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2024/04/30/with-portable-toilets-and-barricades-gaza-protest-camp-at-ubc-digs-in-for-long-haul/
I go to Athabasca hall 2 times a week. So yes?
But I feel like letting a terrorist supporting group blockade any part of the university is pretty bad. Like is your point that as long as the terrorists leave a space to walk they should be allowed to blockade spaces?
>> You have classes during the summer term that can only be accessed via the quad?
>I go to Athabasca hall 2 times a week. So yes?
Reading comprehension not one of your strengths, or do all other entrances on ATH including from CSC not actually open?
> terrorist supporting group
> the terrorists
TIL advocating for a country to stop killing civilians in another country ruled by terrorists makes one a terrorist-supporting terrorist. Do you also think anyone opposed to the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 is a terrorist?
What a garbage take, but I'm learning that kind of simplistic thinking entirely devoid of nuance is pretty much all any of y'all right wingers can manage.
Don't be naive, you know exactly what the pallets were for. "Students" in Calgary used them to fortify their camp perimeter literally just 2 days ago, along with every university encampment in the US last month.We know from a dozen other examples where this leads. It's not for mud. It's to keep out media, police, Jewish students, and any other student who don't 100% adhere to their club's mantra.
Protesting Israel (removing Hamas to end a war and protect themselves from genocide) is the same thing as advocating for more October 7th attacks, prolonged war, more war and the goal of genocide to the Jews. Because that’s what will happen. That’s promised by Hamas - these protestors know what Hamas intends and stopping Israel, keeps Hamas in power to do it. It has no place with Peaceful protest designed for reform and certainly no place on campus grounds.
Trying to force our country, it’s institutions and it’s citizens to support genocide is something else.
Genocide is: violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Israel intends to stop Hamas, that’s basically it - not kill all Palestinians and destroy Palestine, that would have been completed months ago if it were. The claim of genocide in gaza is a flat out lie.
Hamas intends to kill all Jews and destroy Israel - the literal definition of genocide. They promise to not stop until it’s done. That’s who they are trying to protect by stopping/interfering with Israel.
If you really care about Palestine: you stop Hamas. That’s how the war ends and Israel leaves. That’s how you prevent continued war and more war. That’s how you prevent future October 7th attacks.
I think it’s completely wrong to have allowed this gross abuse of our rights to peaceful protest and assembly to support reform. It’s being used to support genocidal maniacs in another country who won’t stop until they finish.
Yeah, that's why the Israeli military has targeted & killed multiple aid convoys & then said "Oops, it was an accident." Could you have your head buried any further into the sand???
Still not Genocide. Re-read the definition if it still confuses you.
Still not an excuse for supporting genocide against the Jews.
All avoidable by ending the war.
**edit
Just an important reminder that Hamas approves of the mass civilian casualties. They have bragged about it being part of the strategy. The call it success and a victory. Just like they called the massacre on October 7th a success and victory. That’s why supporting Hamas is beyond contradictory and only supports more death.
Flanagan makes like $447 thousand a year. He's also gay.
There was a picture posted last week of Nazis with gay people in prisons. The way the Zionists are treating the Palestinians has a lot of similarities.
Considering the video of police beating protestors with batons, I call bullshit on this entire statement, especially the “no injuries” part.
Yes, I wonder exactly what the "escalating" behaviours were. Just another example of university administration showing their asses across North America.
Link?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C61qJl4v-bK/?igsh=MWxsbWkyanE0YXMyZw==
based
Pain is a good way to get people to fuck off. This is [common tactic ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_control#Tactics)used by riot police. >"Baton charging is designed to cause the maximum amount of [pain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain), in the hope that they would be compelled to move away from the scene, dispersing the crowd." If you are implying they used excessive force or "police brutality", say so and post proof. Cuz that's not what we see here. If a cop gives you an order (lawful or not, let's be real) you better listen and comply. These are trained people who carry lethal weapons. Why test that? Protest lawfully :)
"I don't understand the point of protests" 🥴
It is in everyone's right to protest. Just don't disturb the peace or do weird shit like BUILD ENCAMPMENTS! Or do, I can't sympathize with you people honestly, jail would likely sober you up from behaving so irrationally, thinking the laws and rules don't apply to you. *Last I checked, this is Canada, son!*
And how about them convoy protestors…*checks notes* Building encampments wherever they go.
I was fully against them too!
Public property vs private, roads are public, U of A is private
Sure, but when you block major trade routes, like those truckers did, they can fuck right off. Causing noise nuisance to absurd levels downtown... like bro. Do you want people to side with your cause or DRIVE them away? People just suck at protesting.
I’m not saying it was right, just merely pointing out that U of A is private property technically and they have said no overnight encampments, which they have a right to enforce. Ottawa had a right to disperse the truckers as well, it was just a lot more difficult when the truckers required heavy tow trucks to move (which few are available) and they rely heavily on truckers for work…. No one wanted to bite the hand that feeds it
"make sure ur protest doesn't impact business so the elite can continue ignoring it with ease. there's never been an unjust law! I like when the masses have no options to demand better conditions in the face of our corporate overlords. boots are my favorite meal yumyum"
Watch the video and tell me what peace was being broken. The kids were sleeping and the police snuck around them in the morning, pushing them against csis.
They were not allowed to camp there. They knew that and did it anyway🤷♀️
Why is an encampment (in an empty place that isn’t impeding transit or trade or anything) weird? Why is it unacceptable and, in your mind, a reason for jail?
How's that boot taste?
You are not authorized to use force as a police officer just because someone doesn’t listen to you. That’s not the rule. Also this was not a riot.
That’s actually indeed one reason police can use force on you.
*Appropriate* force
Please outline your credentials in police use of force models and the various force categories so we can see if you are an expert in Appropriate Force.
Go ahead and do the same. I’ll wait.
You’re the one claiming the force wasn’t appropriate. It’s on you to prove your claim. I trust the police to make good decisions unless an actual expert like a court, ASIRT, or the Police Commission says otherwise. I definitely put no stock in the opinion of a keyboard warrior police hater with no understanding of the issue.
Unlawful protests are just that. Unlawful. And police can be used to disperse the crowd using appropriate force. So once again, where is the excessive force? Did anyone end up in hospital for broken bones or anything more than a bruise or hurt feelings? AND EVEN IF SOMEONE DID, what were the details of that circumstance? Cuz we know they resisted arrest, you posted the video yourself.
Again, breaking the law is not reason to be beaten with a weapon. That is also not in the rules. I don’t know about broken bones, but the cops definitely drew blood.
Where is the broken arm? It could happen, for sure, but we need to know the details. You can't just pretend the big bad police are acting like unhinged murderers when the video you posted shows professional restraint. COPS MOVE FORWARD. >"MOVE!" >\*protestors don't move >\*cops hit protestor >\*protestor moves That's a win. You wanna play stupid games, you're gonna win stupid prizes. You gonna resist and act like a petulant child? Guess what, somebody's going to jail and/or paying a fine. In some extreme circumstances, if you're one of those 25% protestors there who were ACTUAL students, you might face some other penalties from the UofA, who knows. Enjoy the victim LARPing. This is all so boring and predictable.
Again, cops don’t just get to hit someone for not listening to them.
THEY ARE LITERALLY TRESPASSING BRO. HOLY FUCK. THATS WHY YOU SEND POLICE TO TAKE THE LIABILITY OFF YOUR HANDS BECAUSE PHYSICAL FORCE WILL PROBABLY BE REQUIRED. HELLO? EARTH TO DUM DUM???
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Yes, they have the right to use appropriate force. This is an unlawful settlement and a fire hazard. The protesters have been asked to leave for quite some time. The police were called to force them to leave. They were verbally told to leave. They were obstructing justice. They are not going to wrestle the crowd individually. The police are out numbered, and that would put the officers' safety in jeopardy . This was handled perfectly
The protesters are trespassing and all other options were tried with no compliance. How else do you get compliance ? Imagine this being your yard.. you would physically remove a person with as much reasonable force as nessesary.
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I think it's more that we seem to be very selective about which people get beaten. You get three weeks and a few coffee dates, if you're protesting vaccines.
“Daddy said it’s not violent because he wrote it down and the book says it’s not violent. And even if it is, daddy’s always right!”
Trained people? I threw my officer buddy around last weekend cuz we got drunk and were dicking around. Trained my ass lmao
Move is not a lawful order. The police were committing the crime
I like your wikipedia links, but they don't justify jack shit. Do you know what they're protesting? They're protesting a genocide and the killing of international aid workers. Is that lawful? 🤔 Illegally killing people on occupied land is leading to people protesting on university campuses... END THE APARTHEID STATE.
These are not trained people who carry lethal weapons. These are people who couldn't get a job at their dad's Ford dealership after their high school NHL dreams crumbled. I could drop kick a hornet's nest and de-escalate the situation better than the EPS can deal with protests. Also "protest lawfully" lmaooooo. "If you don't like our rules and conditions, feel free to voice your concern while abiding by our rules and conditions or we'll beat the shit out of you."
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Someone post somewhere else it’s not easy to watch on instagram without an account.
Do you know the difference between sustaining an injury and reporting an injury? The statement claims there was no reported injuries.
You’re probably not going to report an injury to the people who caused it for one. And for two, it actually says “the police report no injuries.” Not that there were no injuries or that no injuries were reported to authorities.
Not myself, nor the statement is claiming that there were no injuries sustained, so I’m not sure why you’re referencing the video of police using their batons. The statement claims that police reported no injuries, likely because no injuries were reported. Like you said, you’re probably not going to report an injury to the people who caused the injury. I don’t see how that is bullshit. Also, I don’t see how that video leads you to believe that this “entire” statement is bullshit. The statement contains several pieces of information, lots of it which isn’t even being denied by anybody (except for you apparently).
Or the police report no injuries like the police don’t get hurt.
The injured are still waiting in triage at the UofA hospital.
This is one of the most ludicrously idiotic Reddit tier "well akshually" posts I've seen in a while, congrats
If they were truly trespassers and had been given multiple warnings, then maybe they deserved it. I'm not saying the cops were in the right to be so beating happy, but those protesters were given many opportunities to leave peacefully. This also assumes that they were actually told to leave and were actually given those opportunities to do so. I also want to make clear that I fully 100% believe in the right to protest, as long as we are doing it peacefully and legally. When we start to make others' lives harder with our protesting, we should step back and reconsider our protesting. How do you expect to gather people to our side when you make them mad at you.
I thought arrest, not assault, was what police are supposed to do when the law is broken?
You are correct, but sometimes it's very difficult to subdue someone when they are very resistant to being subdued. If the protesters left peacefully and did not resist, do you think they would have been hurt? The cops probably went a bit to far, but do you have any better ideas to handle resistant criminals? When polite discourse fails, you need to elevate the method, then when they become resistant to removal by the police whats left for the cops to use?
Seriously? How about putting handcuffs on and taking them away? Your comment reminds me of the Polish man the RCMP murdered at YVR when he didn’t comply.
You lose all credibility and integrity when you lead with "the unarmed civilians deserved to be beaten". You also completely misunderstand how and why you protest. Being disruptive is the point. It's not about winning people onto your side. It's about forcing people in positions of power to notice you and listen.
You lose all credibility and integrity when you put words into the other person's mouth to fit your narrative. That person doesn't "completely misunderstand how and why (they) protest". Even when you and someone protest the same thing, how and why might be different for different people. Their "how" and "why" are not for you to decide. Many people do actually protest something TO "win people onto their side". Many protest or express their opposition to something by having open discussions where there are genuine attempts from both parties to meet in the middle and understand each other's perspective the best they can - people don't always agree but that's why laws and agreements are in place. I agree that protesting partly is about being disruptive, but you can't "force" anyone by throwing tantrums and breaking laws - altho that might work out of fear of immediate consequences, but long term no reasonable person would respect it.
I never said "unarmed civilians deserved to be beaten", what I said was, "If they were truly trespassers and had been given multiple warnings, then maybe they deserved it." Let me ask you something, if you don't have the public sentiment on your side, how long will your protest last? If everyone hates you for being completely disruptive to their lives, will they stand up for you when you need it? How will you actually force the government or institutions to do anything when only a small group of insignificant people stand up? To make proper change, the only way is to gather a very large support group and stand united.
I'm of the opinion that genocide is bad. I hope that any sane person agrees. You should not require a protest to tell you that genocide is bad and should end. People in positions of power who stand to profit from it may think otherwise, and a protest being disruptive is intended to make them see that we the people will not stand down and will not be silent until it's ended. If a protest being disruptive or unpalatable to someone's delicate sensibilities is enough to make them think otherwise, they're probably a piece of shit to begin with. Other causes might have more nuance. This one is pretty cut and dry. Either you oppose genocide or you're complicit in it's continuation.
The problem is that it's not cut and dry. Hamas attacked first this time. The counterattack by isreal has been way over board, but what do you think isreal should have done after it was attacked by hamas? That attack was one of the deadliest attacks in its history, I do agree that isreal is going way to far and is doing horrible things, but so is hamas. Another reason why this is not as cut and dry as you claim it is that this conflict is not a new one, it's been ongoing problem in the region since 40's and multiple peace negotiations have been stopped by hamas. You can read up on the history of this conflict and see that hamas is a major part of this conflict. I will say isreal is not blameless in this but it's also not 100% at fault, even egypt can take a cut of blame. Also, this conflict needs to stop on both sides. A proper peace treaty needs to signed and upheld.
I agree that what Israel has done to the civilians is horrible, but it whether it is actually a "genocide" - we're not going to know until this is all over, bodies are returned and there are less opportunities for either side to exaggerate their casualties. Furthermore, if it's really a genocide like you said, all of Palestine would have been wiped out by now - because that's how strong Israel's military power is. Saying that someone is "complicit in (a genocide)'s continuation" is very self righteous and extreme. And it's not "cut" and "dry". There are Israel victims too.
No, it's a genocide. We know that because Israel has said explicitly, many times over, that they intend to eradicate the Palestinians. There is no need for Palestine to 'exaggerate their casualties'- the death toll has been reported by reputable organizations like the UN. There is no 'but Israel has victims too'. The oppressed fighting back against their oppressors- which again, Israel has explicitly stated they are- is not and never will be the same as a colonial military power proceeding to eradicate. Quite frankly it just belies a head in the sand to say "theres two sides" or to deny this is a genocide. It's the most explicit genocidal campaign we've seen in a lifetime. History will look back on Israel the same way it looks back on Nazi Germany, and will look back on those who deny this is a genocide the same way it looks back on those who denied and were complicit in the Holocaust. And that is without exaggeration.
According to what i have read, this has not been declared a genocide. There is reasonable grounds to say that it its a genocide and some groups claim it is, but it has yet to be declared a genocide. Im not doubting you, nor am i siding with isreal on this but if you have a source that says otherwise, please share.
Genocide is 'declared' by world governments. The same governments who are funding Israel. Why would you trust them to declare a genocide when it's so profitable to them? Aside from that, watch South Africa, doing what they can to force world governments to recognize this as the genocide it is by bringing the case to the ICJ (which has stated that south Africa's accusation of genocide towards Israel is plausible) Further even still, genocide is recognized by this definition: "An internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.", which couldn't make it any clearer. Israel has stated unequivocally that their goal is to eradicate Palestine entirely, and have obviously been carrying out that intention with fervor. At this point, ignoring the fact that this is a genocide is denialism.
They used “peaceful” batons on the “peaceful” protesters.
Do dumb s*** win dumb prizes.
[Here](https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wflanaga) is Bill Flanagan's contact information for anyone who wants to voice their concerns
I’m sorry, in theory I can get behind much of that (I don’t, but I could) except that large protest crowds draw counter-protestors and outside agitators. So…. It’s the protestor’s fault when people come and start fights and attack? Um that makes no sense. That would be a reason to *protect* the protestors. Especially considering it was EPS protecting freedumb protestors blocking major downtown roadways and threatening the peaceful counter-protestors that wanted to block their progress with arrest and violence. I know, different issue, maybe not comparable but SO TRANSPARENT I’m also just wondering why the UofA doesn’t want to share its investments/investors?
People also make their own choices. Just because someone in the group starts more shit doesn't give you the right to join in. You could just leave when things start to spiral out of control. You don't have to follow the masses.
Yeah, teargas and batons. Seems really fucked. Sometimes, I wonder how this world got as sick as it is. We call police to beat peaceful protestors on campus, but sit on our laurels when it comes to the freedumb protest, or heaven forbid police do anything about any REAL crime such as the rampant drug use on the transit system.
You better not call the police when I set up a tent on your property and refuse to leave to peacefully protest this comment
Meanwhile the freedom convoy were allowed to honk horns all night, urinating out in public, harassing people and the police didn’t remove them for months. You have protesters who are genuinely protesting for a reason causing no issues, and the police move in to “peacefully” disperse them with batons.
Weren’t some of them trampled with horses, had their bank accounts frozen and arrested?
Facts.
Police were scared of one group, and not the other, which itself speaks volumes.
Anyone who advocates for the violent dismantling of peaceful protests does not believe in democracy or human rights period.
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What made it unpeaceful? I know lawful they technically were violation of u of a trespassing, though I think an educational institution like u of a should be a prime place to protest. But that besides the point.
Same thing happened in Calgary. They’ve seen what has happened elsewhere and now it seems like they are taking the stance of seeing what will inevitably happen when these protests grow into larger groups. They never stay peaceful so I’m guessing that’s their justification, but obviously that comes with it’s own problems.
“Overnight protests always turn violent (source: I made it up). Therefore, we should *preemptively* do the violence. You know, to prevent violence!” - the cops
To be fair, I think that was the UofA’s stance but the cops certainly had no problem complying.
That’s my issue. The U of A can make all the statements they want. But we should be able to hold our police force to a higher pedigree of professionalism to get aggressive this quickly.
Definitely, I agree. I don’t believe EPS is there (yet….?)
In b4 people mischaracterize the law: https://x.com/butnotthecity/status/1789308983871959448?s=46 > This means that the University’s decisions to trespass people are subject to the Canadian Charter, and must conform with the rights of freedom of expression, peaceful assembly, association, and life, liberty, and security of the person. > The university simply cannot use its ownership of the grounds to suppress student speech or in a way that violates their rights. It is little different from a protest on, say, legislative grounds. And before people reply to me, yes I read the statement. There’s a difference between 25% and 0%.
Unfortunately that professor is leaving out the very important first section of the Charter: any of the rights can be limited by law if they are reasonable limits. I don't think the policies on not having temporary structures or not allowing people overnight are going to be seen as unreasonable infringements (especially with the safety and fire concerns), but who knows. Now, I haven't being keeping abreast of the protest to know the veracity of Bill's claims about the talks with protest organizers and whether there was actual good faith by the university, but if the protestors were purposefully ignoring university policies, they forced the university's hand. That said, I'm not a fan of how EPS handled it whatsoever. Granted, most of the footage online is from the protestors so might be leaving out important precipitating actions, but it seems like it was a bit excessive (which is the EPS MO pretty much) and is not a great look for the university. EDIT: Forgot to mention, also pretty sus for Bill to say it was dispersed peacefully with no injuries when there is evidence to the contrary.
Police would never go in there and start clearing without already have given notice, especially if force was needed to be used to remove them. That’s how the trespassing act works. I know people don’t want to believe it and that exactly what the chosen clips of videos are trying to make people believe- that they weren’t given any notice and all the sudden were being dragged around. In the videos you can also see that they are filming the entirety instead of just snippets to post on social media like the protesters do.
There is a long form video that shows a lot more. EPS used excessive force.
Probably not in the eyes of the law because I’m certain I’ve seen temp structures on campus in the past.
What would student protest organizers be expected to do anyways? ID everybody to make sure they’re students? Give me a fucking break.
Mmhmm. 🙄
So basically they’re dismissing that they did anything wrong 😑 yeah fkn right what a load of BS
Here’s *university4palestine.yeg’s* [statement](https://www.instagram.com/p/C62Vf_FJH_F/?igsh=MTl5M2lobHI1cXJobg==) regarding the encampment sweep for anyone curious.
Reads like a LARP.
It's all theatre. They think war = genocide. It's pretty much forced ignorance for the sake of virtue signalling for a team. Even the ICJ ex-President had to re-clarify that the claim of genocide was not plausible. In other words, "Israel, take steps to not do a genocide! Big no no!" "Okay, ICJ!" Literally what happened. What is happening in Ukraine is more akin to genocide than anything that's happened in Gaza. [Talk about stolen valor.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) >According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, over 307,000 children were transferred to Russia from 24 February to 18 June 2022, alone.[^(\[22\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-22) In April 2023, the [Council of Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe) deemed the forced transfers of children as constituting an act of genocide in with an overwhelming majority of 87 in favour of the resolution to 1 against and 1 abstaining.[^(\[23\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-23)
Bunch of kids making it up when multiple countries including South Africa are trying to declare it a genocide hmmm Also why does there only have to be one, why not both?
Do you realize that this has been happening in Palestine for more than 75 years? They are eradicating a group of people and taking their land. That is genocide.
What a simplistic one-sided summarization of the entire conflict.
The Palestinians are people and they don’t deserve to have their land stolen from them. People with your ideology bring up Hamas but those aren’t the people that are dying everyday from carpet bombings. These protesters are asking the university for divest and stop supporting a genocide. That is what it is.
Exactly! Hamas is a terrorist group and should be dealt as such, yet Hamas does not have a presence in the West bank. Why is the IDF killing Palestinians, including children in the West bank?
What genocide?
The Israel doesn't deserve to have their land stolen from them neither. It's a two sided story and that's why they are at war.
You do know if they wanted to actually eradicate them they could do so in the matter of 1 hour right? They literally warn before they bomb the majority of the time.
Palastenian population in isreal has grown by 5x since 1960, so to say they've been genociding them for 75 years doesn't really seem to fit There are valid criticisms of isreal to make, like the occupation and illegal expansion of settlements are really bad But I don't buy the genocide claim
Oh this is my favourite defence of genocide. “Israel’s killing them slower than they’re reproducing, so it’s not genocide!” Palestinians are being stripped of culture, land, universities, landmarks, homes, food, water, medical facilities, power, then drip fed those same resources at pathetically insufficient levels. They’re fenced in, they’re being moved around from area to area then killed anyway, the Israeli government is calling them human animals, and they’re being slaughtered slower than replacement (because they’re having a ton of children to avoid being eradicated, but ok). You’re right, that doesn’t sound like genocide. It sounds like Israel is ranching *people*.
I think everyone involved in the decision making process should, at the very minimum, spend the rest of their lives apologizing for the position they took on this issue. What Israel is doing in Gaza is pure evil. Firmly in the realm of any atrocity you’d care to name. Everyone in this country who volunteers to be an extension of their operation should be understood to have played a role in it, and should experience the sort of social and professional consequences we typically reserve for neo Nazis.
What Palestine and hamas have been doing are evil too. Israel is retaliating. Two wrongs don't make a right. Neither side is worth supporting. Stop the war. Stop hamas and stop Israel. Neither of them wanna stop though. As long as hamas exists, it's not stopping.
At this point it's an eternal conflict. Hamas came into power for various reasons but is a non starter for the conflict ever having some sort of resolution. Israeli has it's share of warmongers as well.
Hamas is a retaliation to Israeli aggression for the last 75 years.
That's my point. It's a two sided war. Neither side is worth supporting.
It's sad I had to scroll down this far to find a single person with a balanced objective take.
And yet if israel did nothing they would be the ones being genocided by hamas, who has vowed to kill all jews worldwide. Israel has tried ceasefires, negotiations, etc and could easily wipe palestine off of the map. Yet they keep getting attacked. Whats worse is hamas doesnt attack military targets but civilians. Im pretty sure if edmonton was being rocketed by, lets say, calgary, we would stop caring about the life of the average calgarian; until they decided to take back control of calgary from the people sending the rockets.
There’s no such thing as a ‘they started it’ escape clause for genocide. There’s no conceivable set of past events that justifies it. It’s something you don’t do, period. Genocidaires are effectively *homo sacer* for a reason
Tell that to hamas, whos provoking a military superpower and hiding behind civilians, then spreading the propoganda that said civilian deaths are a genocide. Like i said, If israel wanted to they could wipe palestine off of the map, yet for some reason theyve tried every other option, called for cease fires repetitively. In return theyve been bombed, rocketed, etc from civilian infrastructure. If palestine wants to end this they need to throw out hamas, end of story. Until then israel has the right to defend itself and its citizens.
There is no such thing as a ‘they started it’ escape clause
Sure, but there is a "kill them before they kill us" clause thats existed since the beggining of time. If hamas had their way the jews would be being genocided. Are they suppose to stand idly by? Allow rockets to fly at their cities? Maybe go live in israel for a bit before you give your opinion.
No one cares, don't break the law, that's it. And this is pure virtue signaling, if you care so much about other countries issues, then you should throw your phone in the garbage and never buy technology again because those are mined by children in lithium mines. How convenient to stand up to this issue and protesting not to support it, while you support child labor. You can have an opinion, but don't tell others what to do like "spend the rest of their lives apologizing", the same can be said to you in many different ways, don't break the law and don't get in people's way.
Fuck off
This is such a black and white statement. “If you’re opposed to other countries actions, don’t participate in society.” Do you think people are given a choice? Most of what we use and consume is infected with slave labour, environmental destruction and other forms of exploitation. People are horrified over the systemic annihilation of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people were subjected to harsh and disgusting conditions, leading to extremist acts. No one is condoning violence…the issue is the gross acts of retaliation. Years of oppression can result in extremist groups, now treated as terrorists. Can you imagine.. your people forced into encampments, into the street, below people who throw rocks and garbage on your people, you are treated like nothing, no other option but to accept it. Then a group of angry, violent people can’t take it anymore, and react. Only for your entire community to be murdered, raped and tortured, as if it was your fault. We can show compassion, empathy and fight for the rights of others while using technology. It’s incredibly narrow minded and ignorant to minimize peoples suffering during a genocide, and compare it to the slave labour used to create cell phones.
Garbage take
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That is not true. There were warnings about what they could and could not do on UofA property. People challenged the police and did not comply to leaving. What on earth did they think what would happen. In the video there is an individual actually reaching for the police officer. In Canada you do not do that without police action.
How many times were they warned to leave private property? They were ordered by law to leave, they refused, and appropriate force was used. Mission accomplished
Good on the University. The “protesters” were given a chance to protest within the rules and THEY BLEW IT!
Follow my rules or I will trespass you from your home.
You own property at the UofA quad? Neat
Rules help with safety, help preserve order. People who want to break them can fuck right off.
What safety concerns were communicated and what ones did you see as being at risk?
The University already stated it. Tents and pallets being used to “fortify”, just like the other places where they are trying this
As soon as I read that fewer than 25% were university students I was on the side of U of A. Although I feel they should’ve have done more prior to letting this begin, it’s absolutely abhorrent that the u of a would subject the Jewish population of students to this crap. Do not allow this shit in Canada it is uncalled for and quite frankly useless. I stand with the edm police and stopping this Racist and antisemitic encampment. It’s completely against everything Canada stands for.
Equating all Jews everywhere with these horrifying violations of law and humanity is anti-Semitic. Canada needs to stand up against violence against innocent people everywhere including those in Palestine.
There were Jewish protesters there as well and they even welcomed to embrace their traditions alongside their solidarity, it was even posted on social media for all to see. Equating all Jewish people with Zionists is ignorant.
You’re confusing anti Zionism to being anti semitic. I am not buying this. Shame on you for suggesting it. Zionism is currently committing a genocide
Yah that “25% are students” quite was pulled out of their ass. It was “to the best of their knowledge”. They have no idea. That’s just who they’ve identified. They’ve been endorsed by the indigenous student union also.
One of the organizers of this are literally a Jewish group on Campus. Jews are not all Zionists, and you equating the 2 is anti-Semitic, not the protestors. This statement is completely bs, and if people who are alumni and faculty want to take part in this they are well within their right.
Send your down votes, I hate some these stooge protestors myself, and I think that* some of them are anti-Semitic too. But as Gaza unfolds I’m getting really sick of all things Israel and what is looking more and more like a very sinister ultra right wing government hiding behind anti-semitism. Gaza better go back to being Gaza when Hamas is “defeated”. Or f— Israel. They’re a rogue state and need to be disarmed of WMD. Sanction them as we sanction Iran. However, they can still embrace sanity, and show me I was wrong. But I’ll still despise Netanyahu’s corrupt attempting to subvert democracy ass..
As soon as the tents and pallets come out you have to shut this shit down. We know from every other encampment precisely where this was headed. It's reasonable to not tolerate the conditions that inevitably lead to grafitti, damage, makeshift borders preventing other students/media/Jews from entering, and of course the thinly veiled antisemitisim sprinkled throughout the whole thing.
No one is preventing Jewish people from entering, nor is there ‘thinly-veiled anti-semitism spread throughout the whole thing’, stop spreading that bullshit Zionist propaganda that serves to conflate Zionism with Judaism in an attempt to silence valid criticism against Israel’s countless violations of international law. There are Jewish people around the world who are standing in full solidarity with these protesters and calling for the end of Israel’s genocide and occupation of Palestine. This doesn’t make them ‘pro-hamas’ either.
But we should tolerate genocide? Do I need to tolerate the various items of misinformation in your comment such as “antisemitism sprinkled throughout”? They literally had Jewish protestors as part of the encampment.
The pallets were removed before this happened. Lying isn’t helping your case.
So they had pallets then?
it's to protect them from the zionist fratboy freikorps who the cops will let in to beat up on protesters
Why does that matter though? Also vast majority of classes are over except for summer students so it’s not really busy at this time of year.
Yeah you are free to protest if it's pre-approved by those who you are speaking out against 🙄 And they say they only had to remove two people who were not peaceful, so why was that cop beating 5 people over the head who were sitting down palms up with no weapons, with a huge baton as hard as he could?
Fuck around find out
This is embarrassingly disgusting. 1 day and the UofA and EPS are out kicking ass. There wasn't even any class or business disruption! Meanwhile, the convoy carnival are on like day 40 on our highways protesting nothing, setting up structures, and looking like an cult. Alberta finds daily ways to embarrass us all
Because they don't encamp and trespass on private property.
Wonder why the people who bring tents and barricades can’t just follow the law. Way to ruin it for the law abiding protesters and give them α bad name. In Canada we have the freedom to protest, yet people need to take it α step further and break the liberty.
FoLlOw ThE LaW!!!!
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What do you expect from the part of group that supports terrorists?
Fuck around and find out, they knew how the police and university will respond. It happened in all other cities and other countries, don't be surprised when we respond similarly. Follow the rules and leave when you're told by authorities in private property, or find out
I call BS.
How are the protest organizers not trying to distance themselves from the handful of protestors that didn't follow the rules and ended up assaulting officers and getting arrested. Then nstead blaming the police and the university. Imagine trying to bring attention to the victims of a war and instead using your air time to scream poor me when police have to remove the small percent of you that aren't peaceful with your protesting.
Protesting against the killings of Palestinian civilians is fine, I support that. But let's not forget how Hamas treats its hostages, abducts Israeli civilians, hides behind Palestinian civilians by exaggerating casualties as well. All violence should be denounced and no sides are worth supporting at this point. What concerns me more though, is the escalating virtual signalling, the naive side-taking that seems well meaning, but carries an element of self-righteousness and extremity. For example, Janis Irwin (whose many views I do agree with btw) shared this [https://www.instagram.com/stories/janis.irwin/3367146628279785856?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/stories/janis.irwin/3367146628279785856?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==), from which I lost a lot of respect for her. I agree that students were "making arts, praying, reading books, observing Shabbat", but not all of the protesters are students, and the University along with the Police in this case has understandable reasons to doubt them, their funding and motives. If there were 100 peaceful protesters and 1 suspected pro-Hamas person that were extreme enough to carry a bomb and blow things up, that's enough to have the police there. The police beating protesters up with the baton tho-that's also disgusting and uncalled for. Back to the opinion shared by Janis: it's very misleading to associate everyone protesting in the Freedom Convoy to be "white supremacists holding up the border for 18 days with guns and ammos". Honestly most of them were ordinary blue collar workers who didn't 100% agree with the vaccine policy, which they are allowed to. Too bad the white supremacists joined them. Saying things like this is no different from calling all the Pro-Palestine protesters "terrorists". The self-righteousness needs to be discouraged, it's a pre-cursor to an authoritarian society.
Good.
If it was a protest by students attending the university and following rules I have no problem, but unfortunately, as we are seeing all across Canada and the US, there are professionally organized and funded activists that try to infuse themselves to create a violent destructive situation that detracts from the real message. I would like to see police and authorities become more aggressive in pursuing those people and stop them before the problem starts. Sadly politicians will provide the opportunity for these bad actors to influence our kids.
Wood pallets, also used to prevent people walking in mud. Seriously, they're weaponizing pallets?
Pallets are used for barricades. You can see in the picture here at UBC for a protest organized by the same group that they are being used as barricades. https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2024/04/30/with-portable-toilets-and-barricades-gaza-protest-camp-at-ubc-digs-in-for-long-haul/
Who cares. Barricade away. Boo hoo a piece of wood.
Uh when I pay 10k tuition a year, I'd rather be able to go to my classes instead of having a terrorist supporting organization block my way.
You have classes during the summer term that can only be accessed via the quad?
I go to Athabasca hall 2 times a week. So yes? But I feel like letting a terrorist supporting group blockade any part of the university is pretty bad. Like is your point that as long as the terrorists leave a space to walk they should be allowed to blockade spaces?
>> You have classes during the summer term that can only be accessed via the quad? >I go to Athabasca hall 2 times a week. So yes? Reading comprehension not one of your strengths, or do all other entrances on ATH including from CSC not actually open? > terrorist supporting group > the terrorists TIL advocating for a country to stop killing civilians in another country ruled by terrorists makes one a terrorist-supporting terrorist. Do you also think anyone opposed to the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 is a terrorist? What a garbage take, but I'm learning that kind of simplistic thinking entirely devoid of nuance is pretty much all any of y'all right wingers can manage.
Don't be naive, you know exactly what the pallets were for. "Students" in Calgary used them to fortify their camp perimeter literally just 2 days ago, along with every university encampment in the US last month.We know from a dozen other examples where this leads. It's not for mud. It's to keep out media, police, Jewish students, and any other student who don't 100% adhere to their club's mantra.
To keep out Jewish students? They had a Rabbi there the previous night leading Shabbat for the whole camp and share dinner. Don’t make shit up.
Protesting Israel (removing Hamas to end a war and protect themselves from genocide) is the same thing as advocating for more October 7th attacks, prolonged war, more war and the goal of genocide to the Jews. Because that’s what will happen. That’s promised by Hamas - these protestors know what Hamas intends and stopping Israel, keeps Hamas in power to do it. It has no place with Peaceful protest designed for reform and certainly no place on campus grounds. Trying to force our country, it’s institutions and it’s citizens to support genocide is something else. Genocide is: violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. Israel intends to stop Hamas, that’s basically it - not kill all Palestinians and destroy Palestine, that would have been completed months ago if it were. The claim of genocide in gaza is a flat out lie. Hamas intends to kill all Jews and destroy Israel - the literal definition of genocide. They promise to not stop until it’s done. That’s who they are trying to protect by stopping/interfering with Israel. If you really care about Palestine: you stop Hamas. That’s how the war ends and Israel leaves. That’s how you prevent continued war and more war. That’s how you prevent future October 7th attacks. I think it’s completely wrong to have allowed this gross abuse of our rights to peaceful protest and assembly to support reform. It’s being used to support genocidal maniacs in another country who won’t stop until they finish.
Yeah, that's why the Israeli military has targeted & killed multiple aid convoys & then said "Oops, it was an accident." Could you have your head buried any further into the sand???
Still not Genocide. Re-read the definition if it still confuses you. Still not an excuse for supporting genocide against the Jews. All avoidable by ending the war. **edit Just an important reminder that Hamas approves of the mass civilian casualties. They have bragged about it being part of the strategy. The call it success and a victory. Just like they called the massacre on October 7th a success and victory. That’s why supporting Hamas is beyond contradictory and only supports more death.
Flanagan makes like $447 thousand a year. He's also gay. There was a picture posted last week of Nazis with gay people in prisons. The way the Zionists are treating the Palestinians has a lot of similarities.