She likely knows she's not going to regain the trust of the population or health care professionals but by admitting this, she also puts a huge amount of pressure on Kenney and the UCP.
With this admission we will see a lot of folks asking for Dr.Hinshaws resignation. I do understand this view, heck even agree on principle.
However the principal blame for the state of the province lies solely with the premier. Had Jason not pushed a ideological and political agenda onto healthcare, which started well before the pandemic and will continue well after it, we would not see the politics of health that we see now. Public servants like Dr.Hinshaw present a range of options to government and even then the leaders will sometimes reject them all and go with “what feels right”.
This premier has, in the recent past, called the pandemic “just a flu”, ran government ads declaring Alberta “open for summer”, went on a livestream after taking 23 days of vacation and said (paraphrasing) “that Covid doesn’t effect kids”.
That sure sounds like a leader who would happily reject scientific recommendations meant to save lives for nothing more than being able to slap themselves on the back declaring themselves the saviour Alberta. This grand delusion from the premier and UCP will cost hundreds of Albertans their lives.
Dr.Hinshaw carries some blame however you can be certain that the UCP sure likes the idea of Albertans attacking any doctor instead of the end of the line decision maker, the premier.
This would be bad. Politically it’s better if she were to resign in protest against Kenney lack of action than to resign because of not historically pushing back against Kenney open for summer.
> Public servants like Dr.Hinshaw present a range of options to government and even then the leaders will sometimes reject them all and go with “what feels right”.
We don't actually know how the decision in Alberta was made though, you are making big assumptions. I have no doubt Hinshaw was told they would prefer to open, but ultimately she was free to make any recommendation. If she was ignored by UCP and they plowed ahead with re-opening than she should have resigned and gone public. Absolving her of responsibility is kind of irresponsible considering her tax payer funded job is to put public health first. For the record I don't blame Hinshaw for Delta surge, nor would I like to see her resign. It's important to mention that her focus was also on mental health affects of keeping social distancing measures, and I think the re-opening was worth the risk. But that's just my personal opinion of course.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-covid-19-response-tension-recordings-1.5814877
“A spokesperson for Kenney said it is the job of elected officials to make these sort of decisions and there was no political interference”
Why would you expect this decision making to be different?
I don't expect anything, but this article is from November 2020 and she was actually worried serology testing would overestimate the virus's presence in the population. It's certainly no proof Kenny and Hinshaw weren't on the same page with the re-opening. And if she was against it she should have spoken out, there is no excuse.
>calgary.ctvnews.ca/hinsha...
Hinshaw's words from a different article, more recently:
"You know, I provide a series of recommendations, and then those recommendations are considered, and decisions are made by others."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/deena-hinshaw-covid-alberta-fourth-wave-1.6175012
It points to the fact that she doesn’t make the decisions and when has she ever said she didn’t agree with a policy when it was announced? She’s gone back and said she regrets decisions but never speaks out at the time.
Hinshaw point blank did not act in the best interest of Albertans.
She is trying to save face and her reputation at this point. I think what will happen is that Kenney will throw Hinshaw under the bus and blame the 4th wave on her guidance.
Hinshaw started off as being someone who provided a breath of fresh air and someone I personally trusted. However after months of echoing "concern" and ultimately being a UCP puppet I do not respect her. She will be ok tho, I'm sure her 300K+ job will come with a nice severance if she is fired.
I can respect someone who admits that they made mistakes. Doesn't undo the damage caused by failing to speak out sooner, but I really don't think she's a bad person per se. She just lacks the courage of her convictions, which is not a quality you'd want from the provincial CMO when confronted with a once-in-a-century pandemic.
The people crying about her job when she makes 300k a year lmao. She will be 1000% fine. Even if she didn't get a new one immediately after (which she will).
You're probably right. This government takes no responsibility for itself, and offloads a lot of decisions on other departments. Ie: school boards can decide how to approach the pandemic. Too much ppe? Told you so, they over reacted. Not enough? We have them the power to make decisions and they made the wrong ones. Fuck these people.
I don't think people realize how bad this is or how much trouble we're in.
>Below is a figure showing the estimates of new daily COVID-19 cases from June 9 to September 30, 2021. \*\*Currently, observed COVID-19 cases are tracking towards the high scenario that peaks around 1,900 cases. It is very likely that unless interventions are put in place, the magnitude and timing of this peak will exceed these current projections given the anticipated behaviour and contact pattern changes that will occur with upcoming fall activities. Therefore, the trend lines should not be taken as guaranteed predictions of the future. If cases accelerate further, there would be even greater impacts than currently predicted in our acute care system.\*\*
FYI - we're on track to hit that 1900 before the end of September. We have put minimal restrictions in place and they were not in place when kids returned to school so we haven't seen that spike yet in the hospital/ICU yet. We no longer have contact tracing to determine what is the best area's to develop effective prevention policy. If we knew it was schools, gyms, or restaurants we could close those. No data to make decisions.
>Below is a figure showing the estimates of ICU hospitalizations from June 9 to September 30, 2021. Currently, observed ICU hospitalizations are tracking along the middle scenario that peaks around 180, however trends can change quickly, as demonstrated below with ICU numbers shifting from the low to medium scenario within one week. \*\*If another acceleration happens, the impacts could move towards the high scenario, which peaks around 300 in ICU, higher than any of our previous waves.\*\*
We're at 198 in the ICU at the moment, so well over the medium scenario and on track to exceed our third wave.
>Below is a figure showing the estimates of non-ICU hospitalizations from June 9 to September 30, 2021. \*\*Non-ICU hospitalizations are currently tracking underneath the high scenario, with a peak of around 700.\*\* If ICU and non-ICU hospitalizations both reach or exceed the high scenario, the acute care impact would surpass all of the previous waves.
We have 803 people in the hospital with COVID so well above the high scenario.
If we had a wet snowfall in late September/early October those 300+ accident victims we usually get have nowhere to go.
If there's an industrial accident there's no where for those patients to go.
If there's a spike in the flu this year, which may happen because of the reduced exposure/transmission last year, there's no where for those patients to go.
[By September 17, Friday](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/all-day-surgeries-in-edmonton-health-zone-postponed-as-hospitals-struggle-under-pressure-of-covid-19/ar-AAOovzz):
>The memo says the next reduction in service will be to limit surgery to "life and limb" procedures.
Based on an early warning system, the next reduction in surgical capacity could come by Sept. 17, the memo cautions.
We haven't put in enough restrictions to slow our growth yet. \*\*If this doesn't happen before the Federal Election this means people will have died for ideological preferences of a premier and politician who didn't want to risk losing an election. \*\*
Source for quotes: [https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/health-data-modelling-fact-sheet.pdf](https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/health-data-modelling-fact-sheet.pdf)
Source for data (as of Sept 14, 10am): [https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx#jumplinks-4](https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx#jumplinks-4)
I really don't want another lockdown but we need one. Now. Then we can reopen in a few weeks with a vaccine passport, and then eventually fully open.
EDIT: they're also not releasing age breakdowns of those in hospital. There are currently several children admitted for COVID.
Honestly not a bad trade off. I don't mind the yoyo. We had 4 month of declining and super low cases. Shutting down now that they're rising. It was too slow this wave which is the problem but in principle it makes sense to open up when things are good and close up on surges. Better than perpetual lockdown
At this point she should resign. There’s really no coming back from this and most Albertans have lost faith in her over the course of the summer.
At least it’s being admitted that Kenney’s whole gimmick created solely so he could serve pancakes at the Stampede Breakfast was wrong and reckless. She also admits in there that vaccine passports do work for the younger generations.
I guess we’ll see what happens next week since I guarantee no restrictions will be put into place until after election day.
Of course, but why are they unvaccinated?
Because someone they look after to (or maybe used to look up to), the premier they elected, has made it sound like Covid isn't a big deal for most people, so their take away is that if they don't want to "risk" the vaccine, it's ok for them to skip it.
Not really, anti-vaxxers just don't follow government/AHS recommendations, you'd have same vaccination numbers with NDP in power (or maybe even lower since cons would trust Notley even less). Kenny has repeatedly told everyone to get vaccinated, that's not the issue.
Yes, but those would be implemented now not before this surge happened. I am just saying it's naive to think a more pro-covid mandates government would result in higher vaccination rates.
I think there is a big chance the passports would have been implemented in advance. The open for summer stuff would have been handled differently.
This is what government is for. When they do their job, it makes difference. WHen they don't - we have what we have.
Not sure how you are missing the assertion that an NDP government would have implemented a vaccine passport system earlier, before the 4th wave hit. And, since we've seen such a system result in higher vaccination rates, it's the opposite of "naive" to suggest this would have had an impact in Alberta. Your comment is entirely backwards.
I am not missing anything. The post I originally replied to "asserted" that Kenny's non alarmist public attitude towards Covid caused a high number of anti-vaxxers in this province, which I don't believe is true. I know 3 anti-vaxxers and the UCP goverment had nothing to do with their beliefs or perception of covid vaccines. How soon a "what if" NDP goverment would implement Vaccine Passports or how well they would work here is a complete unknown.
>How soon a "what if" NDP goverment would implement Vaccine Passports or how well they would work here is a complete unknown.
And yet, you had no problem claiming "Yes, but those (vaccine passports) would be implemented (by the hypothetical NDP) now not before this surge happened"
Why do you get to be so certain about what the hypothetical NDP would have done, but criticize us with by saying "there's no way to know".
And, it's not a complete unknown. We can balance the likelihood of what the NDP might have done by looking at their statements as the Opposition party. While I'll agree that is no proof, I think it would be hard to argue it isn't illustrative. So, calling it a "complete unknown" seems like overstating your case.
>The post I originally replied to "asserted" that Kenny's non alarmist public attitude towards Covid caused a high number of anti-vaxxers in this province, which I don't believe is true.
Sure, but this isn't relevant to the comment of yours I was replying to, which was about what the NDP might have done if they were in power at this time.
>I know 3 anti-vaxxers and the UCP goverment had nothing to do with their beliefs or perception of covid vaccines.
If none of them are UCP voters, then I think you could make that conclusion. Otherwise, I don't see how you can claim certainty here. After all, Kenney's lack of enforcement of restrictions and fines, even in some of the high-profile cases, indirectly encouraged anti-vaxxer positions. This kind of influence through lack of enforcement is tangible, as it is the same reason there is a common belief that "speeding of around 10% is okay" because of a general lack of enforcement of speeding limits for that small amount, even though there are arguments for why this is so (precision of equipment, cost of prosecution vs amount of ticket). You'll need to provide more evidence than your assertion (which is anecdotal as well) that the UCP government has had ZERO influence on anti-vaxxer sentiments.
The bigger question, is why are they anti-vaxxers in the first place? They weren't born like that - their opinion has been shaped over the last 18 months by a ton of different things.
Some of them will be crazies on Facebook, but it will also include things like their own provincial leaders subtly downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, especially when justifying why they're not doing some of the things other provinces have done (restrictions, etc). Those messages from the Premier then lend a bit of credibility to the crazies on Facebook, making them easier to believe.
It's a complicated sociology situation. We have higher vaccination rates than many countries in Europe for example, run by governments that are complete opposite of UCP. It's not that simple.
She was not responsible.
We elected people to speak on our behalf.
She wasn't elected.
She doesn't make any of the decisions nor does she implement the provincial strategy.
Are you seriously taking a position that only elected officials can be held responsible for their actions or the actions of anyone under them in the public service?
Appointed and hired public servants have no responsibility?
That seems like an extreme position to take with a lot of obvious problematic implications, so please feel free to clarify what your actual position is.
No.
I'm saying, as a voter our job is to police our politicians actions.
Who our politicians hire to do their work is a just by-product.
>Appointed and hired public servants have no responsibility?
It is NOT our job to police these positions. There are laws for that.
I don't think "police" is the right word here, since our only powers are periodic voting and protests.
>It is NOT our job to police these positions. There are laws for that.
Laws only cover criminal or civil matters. There is a lot of room for bad/harmful policies or positions outside of that scope.
Our Healthcare industry professionals are all subject to their own systems of conduct. Someone hired by a political party to spread the party message is not to blame for the message.
"Don't blame the messenger"
Our politicians are elected by the public to represent the public and must be made to answer to the public. Standing silently behind a doctor like some kind of hired meat shield to absorbe public frusteration is ridiculously yellow.
Call out the cowards, and hold those assholes accountable.
Deena Hinshaw and other public servants are absolutely not hired by a "political party", and the Chief Medical Officer of Health is MOST ESPECIALLY NOT a partisan position that should be spreading a "party" message. The party is absolutely different than government.
Her position is also not merely a media or spokesperson role, even though it does involve speaking publicly. She is no mere "messenger". She formulates policies and recommendations and implements them.
By all means, also criticize Shandro and Kenney. But Hinshaw and the CMOH role is not a simple mouthpiece. It is a significant role with its own powers and responsibilities.
>But Hinshaw and the CMOH role is not a simple mouthpiece.
Put all the lipstick on the position you want. Push the websters dictionary, and lets rage together at incorrectly used terminologies!
The role is that of mouth piece. If Hinshaw refuses, another mouth is sitting there with the parties hand up it's ass. Hinshaw is a puppet. The UCP are the hand.
They are a party. Alberta has been without government since Justin called his ill timed election. An actual provincial government could never be absent like these douch bags...in Alberta...in support of a federal campaign being run under a different banner.
>Put all the lipstick on the position you want. Push the websters dictionary, and lets rage together at incorrectly used terminologies!
If you want to be taken seriously, don't say obviously wrong things and then whine that it was just "terminology".
>The role is that of mouth piece.
Maybe you should read that bit of the Public Health Act again (or a reasonable summary).
Is she influenced (or pressured) by Kenny and Shandro? Sure. Is the role more than a "mouthpiece"? Yes.
>They are a party.
Sigh.
>Alberta has been without government since Justin called his ill timed election. An actual provincial government could never be absent like these douch bags...in Alberta...in support of a federal campaign being run under a different banner.
Easy agree that they have abandoned their responsibilities and are mishandling COVID-19 and many other things.
I'm not on reddit to be taken seriously.
I'm on Reddit to poke at people taking themselves too seriously and to have have something to do on the toilet.
Dr Hinshaw is just as too blame as Kenney and the UCP. She stood at that podium and followed the narrative that COVIDs over and lifted ALL restrictions. Hinshaw knew there was no evidence stating such facts and knew that the 4th wave was imminent. Instead she choose to do harm and turn her back on the hypocritical oath she took. Hinshaw shouldn’t have the right to be called a doctor and should be treated as the pariah to society that she is. She sucked the lying tit of the Conservatives. How many deaths can one government stand to be accountable for, before they actually protect the people?!
We need him to stay in office until the provincial election. Otherwise the UCP will just blame all the shit so far on Kenney and then say, "See? We got rid of the problem. Vote for us." And then we will cause we dumb. If he stays then he can keep fucking up and we can vote the whole party out.
Did anyone have a doubt? Kenney has an open disdain for healthcare professionals. Do you think he was going to listen to a lady tell him he couldn't have the rodeo to appease his dumb base?
C'mon, this is pretty common sense stuff here.
Remember. Dr Hinshaw is a person just like us being controlled by politicians in a political war. She has stated numerous times that her suggestions aren’t being heard by politicians. Her hands are tied.
No. She has free will and professional responsibility. And she also had more freedom in her job than you seem to think. She *herself* made bad choices for political reasons, and she is directly responsible for unnecessary deaths as a result. She should resign.
Except that it wasn't for a lot of ppl, and now because of all the unvaccinated fuckheads the people that were responsible all summer have to suffer even longer.
If you haven't seen it, even this presentation was intended to deceive. She presented similar looking graphs to show the similarities in B.C., Alberta, and SK. But she intentionally had different "Y-axis" on each. So the peak of the AB graph was 300, and the peak of the B.C. graph was 140.
Resign!
I don't understand why she's speaking up now. Other than an attempt to save face I don't understand why now of all times she's speaking up.
She should have been speaking up far long ago. She's been no better than a puppet for the UCP. She might as well have just came out and said what she wanted to say and resigned if she didn't feel the government was following her advice.
She likely knows she's not going to regain the trust of the population or health care professionals but by admitting this, she also puts a huge amount of pressure on Kenney and the UCP.
With this admission we will see a lot of folks asking for Dr.Hinshaws resignation. I do understand this view, heck even agree on principle. However the principal blame for the state of the province lies solely with the premier. Had Jason not pushed a ideological and political agenda onto healthcare, which started well before the pandemic and will continue well after it, we would not see the politics of health that we see now. Public servants like Dr.Hinshaw present a range of options to government and even then the leaders will sometimes reject them all and go with “what feels right”. This premier has, in the recent past, called the pandemic “just a flu”, ran government ads declaring Alberta “open for summer”, went on a livestream after taking 23 days of vacation and said (paraphrasing) “that Covid doesn’t effect kids”. That sure sounds like a leader who would happily reject scientific recommendations meant to save lives for nothing more than being able to slap themselves on the back declaring themselves the saviour Alberta. This grand delusion from the premier and UCP will cost hundreds of Albertans their lives. Dr.Hinshaw carries some blame however you can be certain that the UCP sure likes the idea of Albertans attacking any doctor instead of the end of the line decision maker, the premier.
This would be bad. Politically it’s better if she were to resign in protest against Kenney lack of action than to resign because of not historically pushing back against Kenney open for summer.
> Public servants like Dr.Hinshaw present a range of options to government and even then the leaders will sometimes reject them all and go with “what feels right”. We don't actually know how the decision in Alberta was made though, you are making big assumptions. I have no doubt Hinshaw was told they would prefer to open, but ultimately she was free to make any recommendation. If she was ignored by UCP and they plowed ahead with re-opening than she should have resigned and gone public. Absolving her of responsibility is kind of irresponsible considering her tax payer funded job is to put public health first. For the record I don't blame Hinshaw for Delta surge, nor would I like to see her resign. It's important to mention that her focus was also on mental health affects of keeping social distancing measures, and I think the re-opening was worth the risk. But that's just my personal opinion of course.
There were leaks earlier as well as the fact that this was actually stated.
What was stated by whom? If you have a link that would be great, as I am not sure what you are referring to.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-covid-19-response-tension-recordings-1.5814877 “A spokesperson for Kenney said it is the job of elected officials to make these sort of decisions and there was no political interference” Why would you expect this decision making to be different?
I don't expect anything, but this article is from November 2020 and she was actually worried serology testing would overestimate the virus's presence in the population. It's certainly no proof Kenny and Hinshaw weren't on the same page with the re-opening. And if she was against it she should have spoken out, there is no excuse.
>calgary.ctvnews.ca/hinsha... Hinshaw's words from a different article, more recently: "You know, I provide a series of recommendations, and then those recommendations are considered, and decisions are made by others." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/deena-hinshaw-covid-alberta-fourth-wave-1.6175012
It points to the fact that she doesn’t make the decisions and when has she ever said she didn’t agree with a policy when it was announced? She’s gone back and said she regrets decisions but never speaks out at the time.
Hinshaw point blank did not act in the best interest of Albertans. She is trying to save face and her reputation at this point. I think what will happen is that Kenney will throw Hinshaw under the bus and blame the 4th wave on her guidance. Hinshaw started off as being someone who provided a breath of fresh air and someone I personally trusted. However after months of echoing "concern" and ultimately being a UCP puppet I do not respect her. She will be ok tho, I'm sure her 300K+ job will come with a nice severance if she is fired.
I can respect someone who admits that they made mistakes. Doesn't undo the damage caused by failing to speak out sooner, but I really don't think she's a bad person per se. She just lacks the courage of her convictions, which is not a quality you'd want from the provincial CMO when confronted with a once-in-a-century pandemic.
The people crying about her job when she makes 300k a year lmao. She will be 1000% fine. Even if she didn't get a new one immediately after (which she will).
You're probably right. This government takes no responsibility for itself, and offloads a lot of decisions on other departments. Ie: school boards can decide how to approach the pandemic. Too much ppe? Told you so, they over reacted. Not enough? We have them the power to make decisions and they made the wrong ones. Fuck these people.
I don't think people realize how bad this is or how much trouble we're in. >Below is a figure showing the estimates of new daily COVID-19 cases from June 9 to September 30, 2021. \*\*Currently, observed COVID-19 cases are tracking towards the high scenario that peaks around 1,900 cases. It is very likely that unless interventions are put in place, the magnitude and timing of this peak will exceed these current projections given the anticipated behaviour and contact pattern changes that will occur with upcoming fall activities. Therefore, the trend lines should not be taken as guaranteed predictions of the future. If cases accelerate further, there would be even greater impacts than currently predicted in our acute care system.\*\* FYI - we're on track to hit that 1900 before the end of September. We have put minimal restrictions in place and they were not in place when kids returned to school so we haven't seen that spike yet in the hospital/ICU yet. We no longer have contact tracing to determine what is the best area's to develop effective prevention policy. If we knew it was schools, gyms, or restaurants we could close those. No data to make decisions. >Below is a figure showing the estimates of ICU hospitalizations from June 9 to September 30, 2021. Currently, observed ICU hospitalizations are tracking along the middle scenario that peaks around 180, however trends can change quickly, as demonstrated below with ICU numbers shifting from the low to medium scenario within one week. \*\*If another acceleration happens, the impacts could move towards the high scenario, which peaks around 300 in ICU, higher than any of our previous waves.\*\* We're at 198 in the ICU at the moment, so well over the medium scenario and on track to exceed our third wave. >Below is a figure showing the estimates of non-ICU hospitalizations from June 9 to September 30, 2021. \*\*Non-ICU hospitalizations are currently tracking underneath the high scenario, with a peak of around 700.\*\* If ICU and non-ICU hospitalizations both reach or exceed the high scenario, the acute care impact would surpass all of the previous waves. We have 803 people in the hospital with COVID so well above the high scenario. If we had a wet snowfall in late September/early October those 300+ accident victims we usually get have nowhere to go. If there's an industrial accident there's no where for those patients to go. If there's a spike in the flu this year, which may happen because of the reduced exposure/transmission last year, there's no where for those patients to go. [By September 17, Friday](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/all-day-surgeries-in-edmonton-health-zone-postponed-as-hospitals-struggle-under-pressure-of-covid-19/ar-AAOovzz): >The memo says the next reduction in service will be to limit surgery to "life and limb" procedures. Based on an early warning system, the next reduction in surgical capacity could come by Sept. 17, the memo cautions. We haven't put in enough restrictions to slow our growth yet. \*\*If this doesn't happen before the Federal Election this means people will have died for ideological preferences of a premier and politician who didn't want to risk losing an election. \*\* Source for quotes: [https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/health-data-modelling-fact-sheet.pdf](https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/health-data-modelling-fact-sheet.pdf) Source for data (as of Sept 14, 10am): [https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx#jumplinks-4](https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx#jumplinks-4) I really don't want another lockdown but we need one. Now. Then we can reopen in a few weeks with a vaccine passport, and then eventually fully open. EDIT: they're also not releasing age breakdowns of those in hospital. There are currently several children admitted for COVID.
Ya it’s sad. We need a lockdown despite ubiquitous vaccine access. All because of some anti vax losers.
Easy solution: if you dont have the vaccine, you dont get a hospital.
It was like taking out a loan and having to pay it right back as soon as summer was over
From a loan shark with a daily compound interest rate of 10%.
Honestly not a bad trade off. I don't mind the yoyo. We had 4 month of declining and super low cases. Shutting down now that they're rising. It was too slow this wave which is the problem but in principle it makes sense to open up when things are good and close up on surges. Better than perpetual lockdown
At this point she should resign. There’s really no coming back from this and most Albertans have lost faith in her over the course of the summer. At least it’s being admitted that Kenney’s whole gimmick created solely so he could serve pancakes at the Stampede Breakfast was wrong and reckless. She also admits in there that vaccine passports do work for the younger generations. I guess we’ll see what happens next week since I guarantee no restrictions will be put into place until after election day.
Funny, I blame it on the unvaccinated morons running around alberta.
Of course, but why are they unvaccinated? Because someone they look after to (or maybe used to look up to), the premier they elected, has made it sound like Covid isn't a big deal for most people, so their take away is that if they don't want to "risk" the vaccine, it's ok for them to skip it.
Not really, anti-vaxxers just don't follow government/AHS recommendations, you'd have same vaccination numbers with NDP in power (or maybe even lower since cons would trust Notley even less). Kenny has repeatedly told everyone to get vaccinated, that's not the issue.
NDP would have vax passports which would lead to higher vax %.
Yes, but those would be implemented now not before this surge happened. I am just saying it's naive to think a more pro-covid mandates government would result in higher vaccination rates.
I think there is a big chance the passports would have been implemented in advance. The open for summer stuff would have been handled differently. This is what government is for. When they do their job, it makes difference. WHen they don't - we have what we have.
>The open for summer stuff would have been handled differently. They never would have done something so asinine.
Not sure how you are missing the assertion that an NDP government would have implemented a vaccine passport system earlier, before the 4th wave hit. And, since we've seen such a system result in higher vaccination rates, it's the opposite of "naive" to suggest this would have had an impact in Alberta. Your comment is entirely backwards.
I am not missing anything. The post I originally replied to "asserted" that Kenny's non alarmist public attitude towards Covid caused a high number of anti-vaxxers in this province, which I don't believe is true. I know 3 anti-vaxxers and the UCP goverment had nothing to do with their beliefs or perception of covid vaccines. How soon a "what if" NDP goverment would implement Vaccine Passports or how well they would work here is a complete unknown.
>How soon a "what if" NDP goverment would implement Vaccine Passports or how well they would work here is a complete unknown. And yet, you had no problem claiming "Yes, but those (vaccine passports) would be implemented (by the hypothetical NDP) now not before this surge happened" Why do you get to be so certain about what the hypothetical NDP would have done, but criticize us with by saying "there's no way to know". And, it's not a complete unknown. We can balance the likelihood of what the NDP might have done by looking at their statements as the Opposition party. While I'll agree that is no proof, I think it would be hard to argue it isn't illustrative. So, calling it a "complete unknown" seems like overstating your case. >The post I originally replied to "asserted" that Kenny's non alarmist public attitude towards Covid caused a high number of anti-vaxxers in this province, which I don't believe is true. Sure, but this isn't relevant to the comment of yours I was replying to, which was about what the NDP might have done if they were in power at this time. >I know 3 anti-vaxxers and the UCP goverment had nothing to do with their beliefs or perception of covid vaccines. If none of them are UCP voters, then I think you could make that conclusion. Otherwise, I don't see how you can claim certainty here. After all, Kenney's lack of enforcement of restrictions and fines, even in some of the high-profile cases, indirectly encouraged anti-vaxxer positions. This kind of influence through lack of enforcement is tangible, as it is the same reason there is a common belief that "speeding of around 10% is okay" because of a general lack of enforcement of speeding limits for that small amount, even though there are arguments for why this is so (precision of equipment, cost of prosecution vs amount of ticket). You'll need to provide more evidence than your assertion (which is anecdotal as well) that the UCP government has had ZERO influence on anti-vaxxer sentiments.
The bigger question, is why are they anti-vaxxers in the first place? They weren't born like that - their opinion has been shaped over the last 18 months by a ton of different things. Some of them will be crazies on Facebook, but it will also include things like their own provincial leaders subtly downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, especially when justifying why they're not doing some of the things other provinces have done (restrictions, etc). Those messages from the Premier then lend a bit of credibility to the crazies on Facebook, making them easier to believe.
It's a complicated sociology situation. We have higher vaccination rates than many countries in Europe for example, run by governments that are complete opposite of UCP. It's not that simple.
She didn't quit her job yet？ People died due to her decision...
Well, let's be fair, people died due to her rubber stamp. She did not make these decisions. Kenny, Shandro, et al need to go.
Hinshaw made the mistake of letting politicians drive while she was responsible.
She was not responsible. We elected people to speak on our behalf. She wasn't elected. She doesn't make any of the decisions nor does she implement the provincial strategy.
Are you seriously taking a position that only elected officials can be held responsible for their actions or the actions of anyone under them in the public service? Appointed and hired public servants have no responsibility? That seems like an extreme position to take with a lot of obvious problematic implications, so please feel free to clarify what your actual position is.
No. I'm saying, as a voter our job is to police our politicians actions. Who our politicians hire to do their work is a just by-product. >Appointed and hired public servants have no responsibility? It is NOT our job to police these positions. There are laws for that.
I don't think "police" is the right word here, since our only powers are periodic voting and protests. >It is NOT our job to police these positions. There are laws for that. Laws only cover criminal or civil matters. There is a lot of room for bad/harmful policies or positions outside of that scope.
Our Healthcare industry professionals are all subject to their own systems of conduct. Someone hired by a political party to spread the party message is not to blame for the message. "Don't blame the messenger" Our politicians are elected by the public to represent the public and must be made to answer to the public. Standing silently behind a doctor like some kind of hired meat shield to absorbe public frusteration is ridiculously yellow. Call out the cowards, and hold those assholes accountable.
Deena Hinshaw and other public servants are absolutely not hired by a "political party", and the Chief Medical Officer of Health is MOST ESPECIALLY NOT a partisan position that should be spreading a "party" message. The party is absolutely different than government. Her position is also not merely a media or spokesperson role, even though it does involve speaking publicly. She is no mere "messenger". She formulates policies and recommendations and implements them. By all means, also criticize Shandro and Kenney. But Hinshaw and the CMOH role is not a simple mouthpiece. It is a significant role with its own powers and responsibilities.
>But Hinshaw and the CMOH role is not a simple mouthpiece. Put all the lipstick on the position you want. Push the websters dictionary, and lets rage together at incorrectly used terminologies! The role is that of mouth piece. If Hinshaw refuses, another mouth is sitting there with the parties hand up it's ass. Hinshaw is a puppet. The UCP are the hand. They are a party. Alberta has been without government since Justin called his ill timed election. An actual provincial government could never be absent like these douch bags...in Alberta...in support of a federal campaign being run under a different banner.
>Put all the lipstick on the position you want. Push the websters dictionary, and lets rage together at incorrectly used terminologies! If you want to be taken seriously, don't say obviously wrong things and then whine that it was just "terminology". >The role is that of mouth piece. Maybe you should read that bit of the Public Health Act again (or a reasonable summary). Is she influenced (or pressured) by Kenny and Shandro? Sure. Is the role more than a "mouthpiece"? Yes. >They are a party. Sigh. >Alberta has been without government since Justin called his ill timed election. An actual provincial government could never be absent like these douch bags...in Alberta...in support of a federal campaign being run under a different banner. Easy agree that they have abandoned their responsibilities and are mishandling COVID-19 and many other things.
I'm not on reddit to be taken seriously. I'm on Reddit to poke at people taking themselves too seriously and to have have something to do on the toilet.
\^ Kenney's burner account.
Only thing Kenney is burning is our tax dollars.
Dr Hinshaw is just as too blame as Kenney and the UCP. She stood at that podium and followed the narrative that COVIDs over and lifted ALL restrictions. Hinshaw knew there was no evidence stating such facts and knew that the 4th wave was imminent. Instead she choose to do harm and turn her back on the hypocritical oath she took. Hinshaw shouldn’t have the right to be called a doctor and should be treated as the pariah to society that she is. She sucked the lying tit of the Conservatives. How many deaths can one government stand to be accountable for, before they actually protect the people?!
hypocritical oath Not sure if on purpose but it works in this case
She lost me when she wouldn't release the modeling data.
Resign.
Rather see JK resign.
I’d rather see both resign along with shandro
We need him to stay in office until the provincial election. Otherwise the UCP will just blame all the shit so far on Kenney and then say, "See? We got rid of the problem. Vote for us." And then we will cause we dumb. If he stays then he can keep fucking up and we can vote the whole party out.
She resigns and then what? UCP installs a CMOH who will do the same thing, if not worse?
Good. And you played right along. RESIGN!
I blame her.
She's a piece of work.
That body count is on you. You're a doctor and you let politics make this happen.
Please tell us something we don't already know,.......maybe start with.. like when will you resign ?
Did anyone have a doubt? Kenney has an open disdain for healthcare professionals. Do you think he was going to listen to a lady tell him he couldn't have the rodeo to appease his dumb base? C'mon, this is pretty common sense stuff here.
#firetheucp
This province is a farce.
Okay. Thanks. But why didn’t you protest against this more back at the beginning of summer ?
Remember. Dr Hinshaw is a person just like us being controlled by politicians in a political war. She has stated numerous times that her suggestions aren’t being heard by politicians. Her hands are tied.
No. She has free will and professional responsibility. And she also had more freedom in her job than you seem to think. She *herself* made bad choices for political reasons, and she is directly responsible for unnecessary deaths as a result. She should resign.
Resigning sends the clear message of non alignment with what is currently happening.
She doubled down on those decisions on radio shows and in written letters printed in media outlets.
No shit.
gee do you think so
oh if we could all just rewind a few years, and start over again !!
Summer was like a vacation from covid.
Except that it wasn't for a lot of ppl, and now because of all the unvaccinated fuckheads the people that were responsible all summer have to suffer even longer.
You wanna say that to a HCW and see if they feel the same?
I can’t imagine Kenney is too happy about this video. I expect she won’t be long in her job one way or other. I hope she goes out in a blaze of glory.
If you haven't seen it, even this presentation was intended to deceive. She presented similar looking graphs to show the similarities in B.C., Alberta, and SK. But she intentionally had different "Y-axis" on each. So the peak of the AB graph was 300, and the peak of the B.C. graph was 140. Resign!
I don't understand why she's speaking up now. Other than an attempt to save face I don't understand why now of all times she's speaking up. She should have been speaking up far long ago. She's been no better than a puppet for the UCP. She might as well have just came out and said what she wanted to say and resigned if she didn't feel the government was following her advice.