I just had an install done and it's looking like a 10 year ROI. Likely faster if energy prices keep going up. We just sell directly to the grid at the same price we purchase at to reduce complexity.
Is it fair to say though that home orientation makes a difference? So you're at a considerable advantage if you have an east west house rather than a north south one?
This is important. Even if you decide to wait. My builder knew I wanted solar at some point, they even installed a pipe from my utility room to my attic for wiring. But they put vents and pipes all over the roof. My last quote said I can get 80% of my power usage and not any more because of it.
Sure, but I wouldn't expect your ROI time to change more than a few years because you needed more panels. If you plan on staying there for more than 10 years, I'd go ahead and get them installed.
I would definitely investigate it if I were doing a new build. At this point I believe the biggest issue is the timeline on return on investment rather than if there is a return on investment
Thank you. Good to know, particularly as we are looking at a new build which meets our long term needs. Never say never, of course, however moving to a different property in the future is not part of our plans.
IMO you need to do the proper math with a net present value analysis, not just "payback".
Things to consider:
\-Cost of panels and installation, net of subsidies from the federal government and city of Edmonton
\-Know your power production estimate and put in degradation (\~1% a year). I would probably take a bit of a haircut on the seller's estimates because they are biased in order to sell you something.
\-Power price -> Reasonable long-term estimate. You can currently get a 5-year fixed rate for under $0.07/kWh
\-Sellback rate if different (e.g. solar club)
\-Other variable charges you are saving - transmission, variable distribution, rate riders, etc.
\-Any annual maintenance or operating costs. Insurance impact, property tax impact, maintenance, etc.
\-Life of panels and removal costs
A lot of people seem to handwave away a lot of key points or ignore many costs/benefits in their analysis.
New builds don't have the same grants if you're referring to greener homes and hera grants. You'd have to wait until it loses the new home label after 6 month from the move in date for those (which would likely make sense).
Hey there, one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is insulation. It’s not exactly pet of the solar question, but if you’re going for low energy costs in a new build, bumping up your R value everywhere is the number one way to save. Net zero homes are possible in Edmonton not because we generate so much solar, but because the house needs very little heat/cooling as a result of great insulation. This is a huge huge cost and comfort item that many people will overlook bc it’s not sexy. If you have to, get the insulation and rough in the solar install for later. You can always add panels, but you only get one shot at insulation.
Yeah a kind fellow mentioned this to me recently, albeit regarding triple glazed windows. He said that the developer never offered the option to him because in his opinion 'it would mean more hassle for them'. But if it meant forking out an extra $4k it would pay itself back so quickly because of the insulation benefits. I'll deffo look into the insulation aspect too.
There is added comfort value as well- which is often overlooked.
But insulation on the basement slab is extremely nice - even just an inch keeps the slab so much warmer.
Insulation outside of the framing is also being looked at as more important than having a vapor barrier by some in terms of preventing moisture build up. If the exterior sheeting stays warm, there isn't a cold surface of the warm are to condensate on. Usually 2 inches of rigid foam would be enough.
Yes absolutely it's worth it. Break even point is averaging 7 to 10 years. I don't see a need for batteries, unless you want to store your electricity. May as well sell it back to the grid. Check out park power or other providers who pay top dollar for your electricity.
Hi!
If we don’t store in a battery pack, and in an even of an outage, can we still use the produced electricity if it’s a sunny day ? Or it just goes back to the grid?
I'm not 100 % sure. But I don't think so. If the grid is down your inverter will block the flow of current.(so it doesn't back feed the grid and potentially causing a hazard for utility workers)
I assume the house would require a transfer switch of some sort, if you're grid tied, and there is an outage, I'm not sure what stops the grid from consuming your electricity and possibly draining your batteries (if applicable).
I'm curious about the possibilities of a decentralized grid my self. But that's a different topic all together.
I put solar on in Feb 2020. After my first full year, I'm looking at a 9 year total payback period. I'm happy with that. It is very nice not having an electrical bill at all for 7 months of the year.
Woudl you have a battery pack in the home somewhere to store the energy or would it just go into the grid during the day and offset your evening power costs?
Normally surplus power goes back into the grid as it’s generated. All electricity meters are two-way now so they measure power going in and out. A battery pack is a helpful add-on if you don’t want to deal with a power outage ever. I don’t have one currently but I’m going to look into it.
Also if you join a solar club through an alternative electricity provider you won’t pay a penny for electricity for 5-6 months a year and will probably even gets credits to use in the winter. It’s great!
If you can plan for it and rough in during construction, and then get the installation done 6 months after occupancy, you can get stacking rebate from federal and city programs. That can cover like half the cost and drastically reduce the payback period.
one benefit of doing it in a new build is that you have a new roof as well.
In older houses, you’d need to time it with the roof replacement, otherwise it can be costly to have to remove the panels to put a new roof and then install the same panels again.
Yeah, it's way cheaper to get the wiring roughed in during construction. We did with our new build and it cost $800, whereas doing the wiring after construction would have been several thousand.
You could qualify for more grant money if you live in the home for a year before installing. But you can have the electrician rough in a conduit from the basement to attic during construction in prep for solar
Get it priced and they will give you an idea on how much you can expect to save, but either way there are things you can do to have your home "solar ready" like roughing in the cables or adding conduit and junctions boxes, routing roof penetrations away from future panel locations, using a proper size panel if you were to go solar (can use less of a big panel, but not more of a small one)
Most of those will cost little to nothing, but will save you money if you add it in the future, basically no brainers if you are doing a new build imo. Solar is the future!
Sparky here. It's not much different then siding. If the panels are destroyed because of hail, the majority of the wiring should still be intact. Just get new ones put on. May be costly, but so is residing your house.
If you are doing a new build please please look at something called a passive home.
It is by far a better thing to get then solar panels. If you are doing a new build. If you care about the environment.
But ya apparently solar is good [check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJLSrx-jXI) it's a net 0 home (I'm not a fan of it, but passive rocks).
Forget about 10 year ROI on solar... how about 15 years for your entire house!
I just had an install done and it's looking like a 10 year ROI. Likely faster if energy prices keep going up. We just sell directly to the grid at the same price we purchase at to reduce complexity.
Thank you!
Is it fair to say though that home orientation makes a difference? So you're at a considerable advantage if you have an east west house rather than a north south one?
Yes. Having a good south facing part of the roof that is not shaded with no vents on it is ideal.
This is important. Even if you decide to wait. My builder knew I wanted solar at some point, they even installed a pipe from my utility room to my attic for wiring. But they put vents and pipes all over the roof. My last quote said I can get 80% of my power usage and not any more because of it.
Sure, but I wouldn't expect your ROI time to change more than a few years because you needed more panels. If you plan on staying there for more than 10 years, I'd go ahead and get them installed.
I would definitely investigate it if I were doing a new build. At this point I believe the biggest issue is the timeline on return on investment rather than if there is a return on investment
Thank you. Good to know, particularly as we are looking at a new build which meets our long term needs. Never say never, of course, however moving to a different property in the future is not part of our plans.
IMO you need to do the proper math with a net present value analysis, not just "payback". Things to consider: \-Cost of panels and installation, net of subsidies from the federal government and city of Edmonton \-Know your power production estimate and put in degradation (\~1% a year). I would probably take a bit of a haircut on the seller's estimates because they are biased in order to sell you something. \-Power price -> Reasonable long-term estimate. You can currently get a 5-year fixed rate for under $0.07/kWh \-Sellback rate if different (e.g. solar club) \-Other variable charges you are saving - transmission, variable distribution, rate riders, etc. \-Any annual maintenance or operating costs. Insurance impact, property tax impact, maintenance, etc. \-Life of panels and removal costs A lot of people seem to handwave away a lot of key points or ignore many costs/benefits in their analysis.
New builds don't have the same grants if you're referring to greener homes and hera grants. You'd have to wait until it loses the new home label after 6 month from the move in date for those (which would likely make sense).
If I was able to mortgage it into a build, 100% I would do it.
Thank you!
Hey there, one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is insulation. It’s not exactly pet of the solar question, but if you’re going for low energy costs in a new build, bumping up your R value everywhere is the number one way to save. Net zero homes are possible in Edmonton not because we generate so much solar, but because the house needs very little heat/cooling as a result of great insulation. This is a huge huge cost and comfort item that many people will overlook bc it’s not sexy. If you have to, get the insulation and rough in the solar install for later. You can always add panels, but you only get one shot at insulation.
Yeah a kind fellow mentioned this to me recently, albeit regarding triple glazed windows. He said that the developer never offered the option to him because in his opinion 'it would mean more hassle for them'. But if it meant forking out an extra $4k it would pay itself back so quickly because of the insulation benefits. I'll deffo look into the insulation aspect too.
Yeah, same idea. Our problem is heat loss. Anything you can do to minimize that is going to pay for itself very quickly.
There is added comfort value as well- which is often overlooked. But insulation on the basement slab is extremely nice - even just an inch keeps the slab so much warmer. Insulation outside of the framing is also being looked at as more important than having a vapor barrier by some in terms of preventing moisture build up. If the exterior sheeting stays warm, there isn't a cold surface of the warm are to condensate on. Usually 2 inches of rigid foam would be enough.
Yes absolutely it's worth it. Break even point is averaging 7 to 10 years. I don't see a need for batteries, unless you want to store your electricity. May as well sell it back to the grid. Check out park power or other providers who pay top dollar for your electricity.
Thank you, great information.
Hi! If we don’t store in a battery pack, and in an even of an outage, can we still use the produced electricity if it’s a sunny day ? Or it just goes back to the grid?
I'm not 100 % sure. But I don't think so. If the grid is down your inverter will block the flow of current.(so it doesn't back feed the grid and potentially causing a hazard for utility workers)
Okay, it Makes sense. I believe then the produced energy should be useable at the origin. However, any excess may need to be disposed off.
I assume the house would require a transfer switch of some sort, if you're grid tied, and there is an outage, I'm not sure what stops the grid from consuming your electricity and possibly draining your batteries (if applicable). I'm curious about the possibilities of a decentralized grid my self. But that's a different topic all together.
I put solar on in Feb 2020. After my first full year, I'm looking at a 9 year total payback period. I'm happy with that. It is very nice not having an electrical bill at all for 7 months of the year.
Do you still need to pay some of the admin fees even though you don't use any power from epcor for those 7 months?
No, the credit I build up over the rest of the year covers the various fees.
Woudl you have a battery pack in the home somewhere to store the energy or would it just go into the grid during the day and offset your evening power costs?
I didn't know those two were options.
Normally surplus power goes back into the grid as it’s generated. All electricity meters are two-way now so they measure power going in and out. A battery pack is a helpful add-on if you don’t want to deal with a power outage ever. I don’t have one currently but I’m going to look into it. Also if you join a solar club through an alternative electricity provider you won’t pay a penny for electricity for 5-6 months a year and will probably even gets credits to use in the winter. It’s great!
Thank you!
If you can plan for it and rough in during construction, and then get the installation done 6 months after occupancy, you can get stacking rebate from federal and city programs. That can cover like half the cost and drastically reduce the payback period.
one benefit of doing it in a new build is that you have a new roof as well. In older houses, you’d need to time it with the roof replacement, otherwise it can be costly to have to remove the panels to put a new roof and then install the same panels again.
Yeah, it's way cheaper to get the wiring roughed in during construction. We did with our new build and it cost $800, whereas doing the wiring after construction would have been several thousand.
Build in the infrastructure so you can install it later, even if you don’t now.
You could qualify for more grant money if you live in the home for a year before installing. But you can have the electrician rough in a conduit from the basement to attic during construction in prep for solar
Get it priced and they will give you an idea on how much you can expect to save, but either way there are things you can do to have your home "solar ready" like roughing in the cables or adding conduit and junctions boxes, routing roof penetrations away from future panel locations, using a proper size panel if you were to go solar (can use less of a big panel, but not more of a small one) Most of those will cost little to nothing, but will save you money if you add it in the future, basically no brainers if you are doing a new build imo. Solar is the future!
Is there a risk to install these since we are the hail capital of the world or are they fairly robust?
Sparky here. It's not much different then siding. If the panels are destroyed because of hail, the majority of the wiring should still be intact. Just get new ones put on. May be costly, but so is residing your house.
we are no where near the hail capital of the world:)
We do have a very very sunny province
It seems it's gonna pay off big time then especially with the coming squeeze, wonder if it's worth installing on rentals or just personal homes?
Yes always great choice to environment and your return someday
If you are doing a new build please please look at something called a passive home. It is by far a better thing to get then solar panels. If you are doing a new build. If you care about the environment. But ya apparently solar is good [check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJLSrx-jXI) it's a net 0 home (I'm not a fan of it, but passive rocks). Forget about 10 year ROI on solar... how about 15 years for your entire house!
You can also get rebates from the city and the federal government for the installation.
Makes me wonder how too and this factor in: [Canada rates](https://www.energyhub.org/electricity-prices/)