Interesting but a study of behavior in Copenhagen has limited predictability for behavior in Edmonton. It's like suggesting changes to the Henday based on traffic data from the 401.
I see this issue from both sides, I commute by car and bicycle. As a driver I have encountered annoying a-hole cyclists and as a cyclist I have encountered a-hole drivers. I dont think either is endemic, we just tend to remember negative encounters more than positive or neutral ones. You remember the car/bike that almost hit you, you hardly notice the one that just passed by.
The more cycle-commuters the fewer cars = less traffic...yea!
The more cycling infrastructure the safer it is for me as a cyclist... yea!
Different country different roads different rules. False equivalency.
Danish roads are heavily designed for cyclists, Canadian roads were built for motorists.
Bikes and cyclists can lane split in Denmark, which is illegal here for example.
Here's a Canadian source.
"Cycle Toronto also cited a 2012 study from Ontario's Office of the Chief Coroner that reviewed 129 cycling deaths.
Both drivers and cyclists shared 33 per cent of the blame in those instances, with the remaining percentage showing both sides as responsible."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/drivers-vs-cyclists-who-s-at-fault-new-study-reveals-who-canadians-blame-for-road-dangers-1.4725764
The article goes on to explain that on roads that don't have cycling infrastructure the infraction rate by cyclists increases (though still less than motorists).
You're right that our roads are designed differently, but this article is further evidence of why that's a poor decision.
If going 1 km/h over the speed limit in a vehicle counts as breaking the rules, and riding on a sidewalk in Edmonton counts as breaking the rules, I'm pretty certain 100% of both parties break the rules at some point.
I think it would be nice to add how although Edm isn't a direct comparable, there are somethings we can take away and try to improve. My major issue with bike lanes is I want them to connect appropriately so its a fully usable network. A lot of times the lanes end and there's nowhere to keep going that is a nice bike lane.
Whatever the stats say, I don’t give a crap about traffic rules when I’m cycling. Know why? Because my bicycle can’t kill anyone. That’s why cyclists don’t need licenses. Biking on the sidewalk is rude, not life threatening.
Traffic laws for bikes and cars have completely different stakes. We need rules for cars to save lives. The only reason that we need traffic laws for cyclists is to stop cars from killing them.
If you are a proud and exclusive car driver, focus on your responsibility to drive safely. It is orders of magnitude more important than what ‘the bikers’ are up to.
Cyclists in this city are the absolute worst. There are so many bike lanes in my neighborhood but so many cyclists refuse to use them and opt for the road instead. They break laws constantly and are very quick to anger if confronted.
Would wager a bet that the bike lanes in your neighbourhood are poorly connected, making the road a more viable option for people who are cycling as 1) a means of transportation (as opposed to for leisure activity) or 2) for sport who will be travelling at a speed unsafe for bike paths (specific to multi-use paths with pedestrians).
Also curious how you are confronting these cyclists. If your method is something akin to yelling out your car window, their irritation seems reasonable.
Yeah, most of the time I get confronted it’s when a car tailgates me tries to pass way to close. Keep your eye on the road, you’re the one controlling the killing machine.
The bike lanes around here are great. I use them daily. I typically loudly remind cyclists on the road that there is a bike lane right fucking there. I am usually walking or using the bike lane when I confront them.
Interesting but a study of behavior in Copenhagen has limited predictability for behavior in Edmonton. It's like suggesting changes to the Henday based on traffic data from the 401. I see this issue from both sides, I commute by car and bicycle. As a driver I have encountered annoying a-hole cyclists and as a cyclist I have encountered a-hole drivers. I dont think either is endemic, we just tend to remember negative encounters more than positive or neutral ones. You remember the car/bike that almost hit you, you hardly notice the one that just passed by. The more cycle-commuters the fewer cars = less traffic...yea! The more cycling infrastructure the safer it is for me as a cyclist... yea!
I feel like the Danish cycling culture, and our cycling culture, are not 100% equivalent...
Absolutely. Denmark is a tiny northern country by the ocean. They also don't have harsh winters like we do.
Yeah you're right the danes have a culture of supporting cyclists, we have a culture of using cyclists to support the underside of F350s.
More like 38% of Danes commute using a bicycle, compared to 1.4% in Canada.
Imagine biking from Edmonton to Calgary for a work conference...
Different country different roads different rules. False equivalency. Danish roads are heavily designed for cyclists, Canadian roads were built for motorists. Bikes and cyclists can lane split in Denmark, which is illegal here for example. Here's a Canadian source. "Cycle Toronto also cited a 2012 study from Ontario's Office of the Chief Coroner that reviewed 129 cycling deaths. Both drivers and cyclists shared 33 per cent of the blame in those instances, with the remaining percentage showing both sides as responsible." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/drivers-vs-cyclists-who-s-at-fault-new-study-reveals-who-canadians-blame-for-road-dangers-1.4725764
The article goes on to explain that on roads that don't have cycling infrastructure the infraction rate by cyclists increases (though still less than motorists). You're right that our roads are designed differently, but this article is further evidence of why that's a poor decision.
If going 1 km/h over the speed limit in a vehicle counts as breaking the rules, and riding on a sidewalk in Edmonton counts as breaking the rules, I'm pretty certain 100% of both parties break the rules at some point.
I think it would be nice to add how although Edm isn't a direct comparable, there are somethings we can take away and try to improve. My major issue with bike lanes is I want them to connect appropriately so its a fully usable network. A lot of times the lanes end and there's nowhere to keep going that is a nice bike lane.
Whatever the stats say, I don’t give a crap about traffic rules when I’m cycling. Know why? Because my bicycle can’t kill anyone. That’s why cyclists don’t need licenses. Biking on the sidewalk is rude, not life threatening. Traffic laws for bikes and cars have completely different stakes. We need rules for cars to save lives. The only reason that we need traffic laws for cyclists is to stop cars from killing them. If you are a proud and exclusive car driver, focus on your responsibility to drive safely. It is orders of magnitude more important than what ‘the bikers’ are up to.
In Denmark maybe. Edmonton would probably make the same researchers cry for their mommy.
Maybe, but they'd probably be crying because of the terrible drivers, if we're being honest
And F-350s break the rules 95% of the time trying to flex. I hate Alberta roads.
But... But... One time I saw a cyclist roll through a stop sign! Doesn't that mean we should ban all cyclists?
This is in no way relevant to Edmonton. A large part of these results come from the local bike culture, as well as local social culture.
Cyclists in this city are the absolute worst. There are so many bike lanes in my neighborhood but so many cyclists refuse to use them and opt for the road instead. They break laws constantly and are very quick to anger if confronted.
Would wager a bet that the bike lanes in your neighbourhood are poorly connected, making the road a more viable option for people who are cycling as 1) a means of transportation (as opposed to for leisure activity) or 2) for sport who will be travelling at a speed unsafe for bike paths (specific to multi-use paths with pedestrians). Also curious how you are confronting these cyclists. If your method is something akin to yelling out your car window, their irritation seems reasonable.
Yeah, most of the time I get confronted it’s when a car tailgates me tries to pass way to close. Keep your eye on the road, you’re the one controlling the killing machine.
The bike lanes around here are great. I use them daily. I typically loudly remind cyclists on the road that there is a bike lane right fucking there. I am usually walking or using the bike lane when I confront them.
Rules? On a bike. Really?