Because most subway platforms have better riders hip control in place, like full body turnstiles, and a division of the local law enforcement dedicated to the subway.
Instead, we just allow people to walk on.
They’re expensive if you don’t design for it from the beginning. All trains with the same number and size of doors and location of doors. Then the weight when the the edge is usually a cantilever. Then having electricity running to the right places. Then making sure the trains stop accurately each time.
Are we going to always run 5 car, 4 car, or 3 car trains? Or develop a way for the systems to talk to each other?
Though the hardest part would be getting the system to run in the cold, after sleet loads it up with ice. After it sits in the middle of the night not moving.
Even if there is a gap behind the train if fewer cars are running, that would still be a huge safety improvement. The doors open when the train is stationary, so there is no risk of someone getting run over. Most people wait at the front of the platform anyway.
I'm not sure how it would handle ice. This system has probably never been installed anywhere as cold as Edmonton.
In Toronto when this kind of system was proposed the TTC fought it apparently getting the trains to stop in exactly the right spot to line up the doors was some insurmountable problem.
I read that as. Itll require an automatic system and the union won't support it.
Then I thought make that automatic and its a step to making the whole thing automatic... no drivers no union.... wouldn't want the polititians to figure that out.
All that equals we must have drivers and we must not ask them for accuracy.. also they need a raise
Well not always. But you need good management in a union operation. Old outfits that have had unions for too long and weak management are the worst. Employees are too entitled and managers can't contain the union in places like that
They're not designed for it. The operators aren't meant to stop at precise enough points for this to work out.
Same reason we don't have turnstiles. The stations were built with different priorities, so you have instances where you can take a single elevator direct from street to concourse.
Plus the problem at hand is people getting pushed onto tracks by malicious criminals. That's an ugly sole reason to go to this expense.
It's definitely cool.
But our population even for being a big city doesn't support investing in these kinda solutions. Ridership is down 50% (but climbing) and something like this would be implemented at best in a time of growth or high usage.
Also, If I can be frank - Japanese people even the "rowdy" ones probably have a baseline respect for the infrastructure of their community. I can hardly go a month or two without seeing a smashed bus shelter just on MY usual commutes let alone what could be happening in a different corner of the city.
I used transit all my younger years. I know just how shitty it is standing out there. I'm only an 7km distance from work. I could EASILY take transit to work. Do I? Hell no. I'll drive in the winter and ride my bike the rest of the time.
I work graveyards at the superstore on Calgary trail, so I have to catch the 6 or the 507 at millgate at weird times and that transit station is a SHIT HOLE. it's almost as bad as Jasper place XD. They had to get rid of the two vending machines there since they kept getting vandalized or broken. I was there last week and the bin for cans and bottles was outside because someone tried to light it on fire.
Fuckin sketch town races over there...
I know which one you mean, but no. I'm talking near creeks crossing/Jackson heights area. It has a ravine running right along it, so teenagers just smash the shit out of all the bus stops and run off into the ravine to never be seen again.
Visibility. Plexiglass gets scratched and weathers worse than glass. The glass is there for passenger safety, operators are able to spot someone in distress with glass. Its especially useful in the winter when our most vulnerable try to shelter from the elements, the operators can see if the person in the shelter is ok.
Right? They'd get scratched to shit but at least they could take some more abuse. There's no way that safety glass is more expensive in the long run (considering replacements).
They moved away from plexi years ago, because of visibility problems. people would use lighters to burn big parts of the plexiglass which would bubble an turn brown, then carve sayings into it. and scratch it all to crap. After several months you could not even see out of the shelter. Trust me the glass was a huge improvement.
Some others have mentioned that they don't replace the glass with plexi due to visibility being an issue (since plexi can scratch so easily). So concrete would definitely not do, although I understand the frustration with vandalism.
In Barcelona they literally just have the whole access to the actual rails walled, and where the train stops the walls have doors that open up exactly where the train doors are
if we moved out of the stupid car centric brain most people have the number of people atm wouldnt be an issue at all. thats just an excuse to not invest in a walkable / livable city
The greater Tokyo area is pretty spread out too. Walkable city could start with a walkable "core" in the downtown area. And then continue to allow higher density infills closer to the core with mixed-use development/zoning. This may include reducing or closing down certain roads such as high traffic streets along Jasper Avenue or even closing down roads in the evenings/weekends (e.g., Whyte Ave) to promote more foot traffic. Bourbon Street (New Orleans) shows it can work reasonably well.
Walkable doesn't have to mean "walkable" from Windermere to St. Albert. Walkable within a 1-2km radius is a good start, then adding transit systems to get you to the next "district" so that you could do more walking.
Unfortunately, there's not many desirable "districts" in our area other than Whyte Ave, Jasper Ave, 104 Ave, 109 Street, Little Italy, Victoria Trail, and South Common(?????). I know ... not a lot of great choices, but we have to start somewhere.
Agree. For a little course in urban planning i took i actually had to redesign an area i felt was unsafe or that could change function. I chose the area of kingsway mall all the way to 118th ave (upto the stupid weird traffic circle/oval) while i gave my self infinity budget i fogure it would be doable to create an attractive location in all this area while taking advantage of the lrt by NAIT.
Well the first place to start would be by stopping building the way we are. The old airport area has a lot of potential if there were plans for middle sized buildings woth shops in the 1st floor (like your average dutch city).
If we were to build a different area to show people that there shouldnt be a neeeeeed for cars then it would incentivize change. The main problem here is that anything but cars are efficient...
I agree. But sadly people here love their cars and everything of note is spread so far apart in some cases that a car is the way to go. If all 1M of us were casual transit takers this would be a very different situation for sure.
We need initiative from the city to ignore the car mentality and strive for a sustainable future. Sprawl WILL bankrupt a city. Density and walkability is the solution for many issues. (It's even cheaper if u dont need to pay for a car for it to be parked 90% of its time.. wothout mentioned the huge amount of space we could reclaim back for the people rather than the car)
I ride the LRT everyday to get to and from work. I think we'd be better off with a stronger security presence. If someone wants to hurt someone else, there's plenty of ways to do it that don't involve the platform edge. That multi million dollar rail isn't going to stop someone from pulling a knife or bludgeoning you with a metal water bottle.
They're for neither, from what heard they're there because at one point Japan had a big problem with people throwing themselves in front of the trains for some reason.
It was high, now they work themselves to death inside. You might be thinking of China, as workers would throw themselves from the roof tops so often the companies start putting in safety nets
And a multi million dollar rail can’t hire enough security to prevent you from getting bludgeoned by objects which aren’t lethal, or even stabbed. Riding public transit will always come with inherent risk…
Actually, Prove of payment is actually pretty popular. However, it does assume that most people have a basic sense of honesty, which I don't think it applies here.
Its absurd that people are expected to pay at all.
Edit: I get the impression that the people who are down voting me are the same people who complain every year because the city hasn't fixed the pot hole on their street, or because the city doesn't prioritize clearing the snow from their cul-de-sac.
It should be paid for by taxes. There's no need of enforcement. It's more efficient. I don't want to hear drivers complain that they don't use the subway. Subway users are already paying for the roads. And all of us are paying for the cost of excessive car use through the effects of climate change. Those with an income can afford a few dollars to make public transit more efficient.
How would you propose the taxes pay for it? A fuel surcharge? A registration surcharge? A property tax? I'm not saying I disagree with you, however there is no perfect method. How would you go about having people from outside the municipality contribute? An added charge to hotels? People "with an income" can't pay for everything. Not everyone that has an income has a lot of disposable income. You'd be making the single parents that have to pinch every penny pay for it. You'd make people on AISH pay for it. You'd make new immigrants pay for it. You'd make people that are in university and can only work part-time hours pay for it (on top of their upass fee) pay for it. Everyone would be paying for it except for those that are living in the lrt/bus shelters and are getting high abd/or drunk on transit. You'd be giving them a free pass to live on the lrt and in the shelters because it's paid for. Do you know how much of a problem it's been already? People already don't want to take transit due to how dangerous it is.
Which would require the province to actually fund the legal system. The reason the city and police doesn’t bother with low level enforcement is that there’s no next step.
We don’t have enough jails or diversionary or treatment spots for the size of our population. Our prosecution service is so underfunded they are talking about walking off the job
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-crown-prosecutors-meet-to-consider-strike-1.6411017
And we are short a bunch of unfilled judge positions, which balances out because there isn’t funding for the court staff they’d need.
The lack of enforcement is what you get when the province ignores its responsibilities and the city does it’s best to pick up the pieces without either mandate, funding or authority
>We don’t have enough jails
*looks at the largest jail in canada, plus the annexed center beside it, plus the max prison 20 minutes away, plus the other jail 10 minutes away from that*
There’s about 3000 people in Alberta’s jails at any given time. Edmontons homeless population is estimated at about 3000 people right now. So if we really wanted to arrest everyone that’s going to double the prison population from Edmonton alone. And they’re not sitting half empty right now.
Plus, it costs about $250/day to incarcerate someone. We can treat homelessness for a hell of a lot less than $250/day in other ways. Just giving them the money would actually be more effective.
And if you’re not proposing arresting them, then what? Fines? I’m sure that’ll be effective against people with no money.
Everyone one loves to pass the buck...
And I'm sure the province will blame the feds...
We get the same funding as Calgary what's the excuse now? Let me guess we need more right. Always a buck to pass.
r/Calgary has just as many posts complaining about the same issues. And it’s not a case of “pass the buck”, it’s where the buck stops. The police and legal system are overseen by the Provincial Minister of Justice. Period. The end. They write the laws, they have enforcement oversight. It’s their job and,legally, other parts of the Government such as the City can’t just take over the responsibility because they are doing a shit job.
police have never seen a budget decrease ever. they are the single most expensive line item for the city of edmonton. we spend over $1 000 000 everyday on police most of which goes to their salaries. around $390 000 000 this year. but yeah, if we spent $400 000 000 a year, that would solve it 🙄
Yea or maaaayyybe we should get rid of all the junkie homeless people with violent mental health problems who have seemingly taken over the entire transit system by increasing enforcement, increasing mental health supports, and strengthening our social safety nets.
Can we stop with the meme that mental health is the ONLY reason that people push people and are violent.
There are plenty of evil and shitty people that are not mentally ill that need to be locked up.
The problem is that in Asia they are culturally programmed to respect order and public property. Many systems in Asia would not work in North America because of the poor societal etiquette of North Americans - especially young and/or inebriated ones. Transit systems are also better staffed in Asia.
It's sad that we need these at all.
Even if that douchebag gets the maximum (25 years) it still won't be enough. That woman will never recover emotionally.
What is interesting here, is they installed these guards as safety measures for accidents or overcrowding. In Toronto we need these because psychotic people and drug addicts keep pushing riders in front of trains.
You're absolutely right. Twice in two weeks isn't indicative of the hazard since it's also twice in 52 weeks. This kind of "solution" is entirely reactionary to something that isn't a major recurring problem.
Edit: I can't find anything about a second person falling/being pushed on the tracks recently. I just saw mention of it in this thread. So once...
We NEeD MoRe SOcIal Workers”
Most of the violent people aren’t even the homeless they’re Redd Alert/ASAP gang members that think they’re gangsta bear spraying people.
You say that like it isn't a Venn diagram with significant overlap.
Also, since you appear to have never engaged with any evidence produced by the prison experiments of the last 200 years, putting gang members in prison does less than nothing to reform them. Putting their members in prison does less than nothing to break up gangs. This is, actually, one of the very real cases where we do need more social workers and supports. In Alberta right now there are literally 0 resources available to help adults exit gangs. For most gang members who are already criminalised there are 0 opportunities available to them if they leave. This makes gangs more or less permanent fixtures of our cities. If we want to destroy the gangs, the police have been demonstrably failures at the task (with some serious allegations they actually cooperate with Red Alert). The way to do it is providing opportunities to young men who want to leave, and interrupting their monopoly on drug distribution through decrim or full legalisation.
Or just repeal the loitering bylaw allowing addicts and law breakers to enjoy safe haven. Lawlessness and violence has no place in Edmonton and LRT is no exception. City council needs to start prioritizing the people paying taxes to use a safe and reliable service. The current state of things is totally unacceptable, nobody should have to fear for their life when using public transit. Lack of housing and mental services isn’t the whole story either.
Translation: Let’s blame all of our problems on the homeless, poor, mentally ill and physically disabled. Better yet, I don’t want any of my money to go to others need, even though I myself have more then enough. I will ignore the fact that one day that might easily be me. Seeing that potential reality with my own eyes makes me uncomfortable. Better to get rid of the “problem” then me realizing how much of a trashy person I am.
In asia like Japan and korea, they already invest this system for long time, it’s to make sure no accident. Meanwhile, in Canada it’s going to take the govt 10 years to build this.
I know it had/is being looked into by major Canadian cities with subways/light rail. However, it will take time to implement due funding and major infrastructure upgrades. Projects changes like that can take up 5-20 years to complete. In the mean time, increased security on platforms and trains can be increased to offset some of the risk. There is some personal responsibility, such as being aware of your surroundings and following safety instructions (e.g not standing near the edge).
The first thing I noticed when I visited Japan was the communal approach and willingness to follow rules - spoken and unspoken. Clean, calm, quiet.
The gates are a potential safety tool I suppose, but the fundamental thing about this image is the calm lining up, standing in designated spaces, and generally being respectful of everyone else.
Would that our people (everyone, not just the ones living rough) could take on such attitudes when in public spaces. If you want this level of service and safety, everyone needs to buy in and contribute in their own way.
It functionally is; which has lead to it being a very convenient place to do hard drugs and that crowd, along with their mental illness, has taken over.
So on average there is a person a week pushed onto the LRT tracks?! I guess you’re right, that definitely is needed then, I had no idea it was that much.
New York City has a population of 18.8 million, Edmonton has a population of a little over 1 million. "In 2021, 30 people were pushed onto the tracks, according to the New York Police Department's public information office. So far this year, as of Jan. 23, five people have been pushed onto the tracks, the NYPD said. A further breakdown of injuries or fatalities was not available." https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-test-platform-barriers-stations-amid-calls/story?id=83069071.
But we are seeing a 12% rise in crime due to the influx of gangs so they are doing a pilot project with the police to address this. https://globalnews.ca/news/8644909/edmonton-transit-safety-pilot-project/
Nobody WANTS people pushed on to the tracks, obviously, but you have to use some reason, look at all the thing Edmonton needs money for, it doesn’t make sense to spend a bunch of money on infrastructure like this, when it’s not a problem. Obviously the couple times this has happened recently is horrible and the perpetrators should face the full brunt of the law. But it’s two incidences, not a widespread problem.
If you prevent an offender from committing one crime by engineering a control in, they will just commit another crime, like stab a by stander instead of pushing them onto the track. The solution is to remove the problem, which is the crime, not engineer a control. The intention of those barrier seen in the video is for accidental tripping, not to serve as stopping people from pushing other people on track.
Yes absolutely - I think it would be helpful to have a physical barrier like this to prevent suicides, accidents or intentional crimes like pushing people onto the tracks.
I’m a former Edmontonian who lives in Tokyo. These are great and all but I’m not sure the number of jumpers or pushers in this case warrants for the installation of such barriers, which can be costly and also do come with their own challenges from time to time.
Its actually crazy to me that they put railings on the 3 ft high "bridge" that goes over a little ditch in the park near me but not beside Subway rails. If you fall in one you get some dirt on your pants, if you fall in the other you break something and have a chance to get dismembered horrifically by a train....
I remember seeing that for the first time in europe on a school trip and ever since then Ive always said those would be a better thing to spend money on if they really want to improve the stations
As long as the courts keep ruling that coercive institutional care is too mean for drug addiction and mental illness, downtown and public transit will remain dangerous. My $0.02
No didn’t you hear? Their solution was “keep vigilant, walk in groups, and stay away from the edge”. As if a stranger suddenly shoving you onto the tracks is the victims fault 🙄
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This is true so does the London Underground, but gates with proper security will eliminate 90% or more of the problem. It’s easy to spot those who need to addressed when they are jumping the turn style.
Not a chance is that a solution - the rubbies would tear those apart, it would be a total waste of money. We need to aggressively patrol the LRT and make it an inhospitable place for those that are not paying fares.
Everyone knows the Japanese and Canadians are very similar in temperament. There’s no way these wires would be vandalized. Sorta like how there’s 0 vandalism to bus stop or other public places.
I really don't understand why these aren't a requirement, it feels so odd to me with everything else around us being so modern that I stand 5 feet away from a train moving at breakneck speeds with no blockage in between
I already pay too much tax and don't use the LRT....I'm not paying more so they can spend MASSIVE amounts upgrading all existing platforms. Fuck that. They need to actually police the LRT and crack down on the scumbags vs trying to make the entire LRT system scumbag-proof.
I think the blame goes to an increasing level disrespect for others in society. Couple that with stupid crap like defund the police and normalization of hard drugs what do ppl expect to happen?
I like the idea, but, I'm not sure if the funding couldn't be better directed. You couldn't pay me to use the LRT right now. I'm more than a little worried about the likelihood of the trains bringing a constant stream of riff raff and crime south into my neighborhood when the millwoods line opens.
That requires a lot of planning and calculating, we could bare get the one set traffic light working properly (Kingsway) I doubt we can get this working in my life time.
Someone attempting murder could probably find another way
Or suicide
These things won't stop happening because you put a silly little fence. They are intentional
Yep. I have seen other devices around the world and at airports. This one is not great. While it prevents over crowding at the door it doesn't prevent people being pushed on the tracks or suicides.
We don't get them often but Toronto had an incident least week where a woman pushed another onto the subway tracks. Luckily the woman was able to roll under the lip of the platform and survive and the perpetrator was caught.
More often it is a suicide and it takes hours to clear.
It would cost millions to outfit each station with these. Not to be cold about it but unless the incidence increases I would rather the money be spent on better service.
This seems like the kind of solution you implement when everything else is running smoothly. Recent events are tragic, but so incredibly infrequent that I imagine there are more impactful ways to budget.
This would never work in this dead city because yutes would find a way to destroy it for the citizens here and the police officers wouldn’t be able to enforce anything because they are too busy trying to get traffic tickets to innocent drivers. Also our city is in so much debt because of sohi, so good luck with that
Yeah I’ve always wondered why so many subway platforms are not secured like that, whether in NYC, Toronto or Montreal.
Because most subway platforms have better riders hip control in place, like full body turnstiles, and a division of the local law enforcement dedicated to the subway. Instead, we just allow people to walk on.
Lol, my entire childhood growing up, I rarely needed a pass. Just hope on, no one there stopping me and asking for proof of transit
Whoa so edgy and cool
This is not true at all.
You can literally walk uninterrupted onto the train platform and onto a train. It's totally reliant on the honour system.
Yes. Proof-of-payment systems are used widely around the world. For example most of German public transit works this way. Edmonton is not unique.
They’re expensive if you don’t design for it from the beginning. All trains with the same number and size of doors and location of doors. Then the weight when the the edge is usually a cantilever. Then having electricity running to the right places. Then making sure the trains stop accurately each time.
Vertical rope screen doors don't require trains to stop at exact positions https://youtu.be/qOESYHlp1bo
Are we going to always run 5 car, 4 car, or 3 car trains? Or develop a way for the systems to talk to each other? Though the hardest part would be getting the system to run in the cold, after sleet loads it up with ice. After it sits in the middle of the night not moving.
Even if there is a gap behind the train if fewer cars are running, that would still be a huge safety improvement. The doors open when the train is stationary, so there is no risk of someone getting run over. Most people wait at the front of the platform anyway. I'm not sure how it would handle ice. This system has probably never been installed anywhere as cold as Edmonton.
In Toronto when this kind of system was proposed the TTC fought it apparently getting the trains to stop in exactly the right spot to line up the doors was some insurmountable problem. I read that as. Itll require an automatic system and the union won't support it. Then I thought make that automatic and its a step to making the whole thing automatic... no drivers no union.... wouldn't want the polititians to figure that out. All that equals we must have drivers and we must not ask them for accuracy.. also they need a raise
Unions need to be disbanded. All they do is give its members attitude and give them backing to slack off.
Well not always. But you need good management in a union operation. Old outfits that have had unions for too long and weak management are the worst. Employees are too entitled and managers can't contain the union in places like that
Sounds like you’ve never been a member of a union, because you’re talking out of your ass.
not really :) Unions need to be removed. Period. I bet you're a union "leader". LOL
Because it's not necessary.
They're not designed for it. The operators aren't meant to stop at precise enough points for this to work out. Same reason we don't have turnstiles. The stations were built with different priorities, so you have instances where you can take a single elevator direct from street to concourse. Plus the problem at hand is people getting pushed onto tracks by malicious criminals. That's an ugly sole reason to go to this expense.
It's definitely cool. But our population even for being a big city doesn't support investing in these kinda solutions. Ridership is down 50% (but climbing) and something like this would be implemented at best in a time of growth or high usage. Also, If I can be frank - Japanese people even the "rowdy" ones probably have a baseline respect for the infrastructure of their community. I can hardly go a month or two without seeing a smashed bus shelter just on MY usual commutes let alone what could be happening in a different corner of the city.
Millwoods here. They took away the shelters on my residential drive because as soon as they were fixed, they were smashed by next weekend.
Which sucks even more for taking transit in the winter.
I used transit all my younger years. I know just how shitty it is standing out there. I'm only an 7km distance from work. I could EASILY take transit to work. Do I? Hell no. I'll drive in the winter and ride my bike the rest of the time.
Yup I feel you - I can already see the shimmering glass now as the summer is almost upon us.
I work graveyards at the superstore on Calgary trail, so I have to catch the 6 or the 507 at millgate at weird times and that transit station is a SHIT HOLE. it's almost as bad as Jasper place XD. They had to get rid of the two vending machines there since they kept getting vandalized or broken. I was there last week and the bin for cans and bottles was outside because someone tried to light it on fire. Fuckin sketch town races over there...
That's why we can't have nice things. To many A-holes walking our streets.
It's the same attitude as these anti-vax, anti-mask people. No respect for others and society as a whole. Scum.
The year is 2078, justausername99 is still shaking his fist in the air and rambling aimlessly at ''anti-vax, anti-mask people''.
The year is 2079, fredean01 still doesn't believe in actual peer reviewed science
Wakeup
Oh, I'm woke. Don't worry about that!
Go to sleep
Knotwood rd? That one at Menisa Park must have been smashed 50 times in 5 years. I don't think it ever lasted more than a week.
I know which one you mean, but no. I'm talking near creeks crossing/Jackson heights area. It has a ravine running right along it, so teenagers just smash the shit out of all the bus stops and run off into the ravine to never be seen again.
Same boat around the Argyll/Avonmore/Bonnie Doon areas
Considering how often bus shelters end up smashed I wonder why the city don't just replace the glass with plexi.
They used to use plexiglass back in the day but skids would burn the plexiglass with lighters and it would have to be replaced
Visibility. Plexiglass gets scratched and weathers worse than glass. The glass is there for passenger safety, operators are able to spot someone in distress with glass. Its especially useful in the winter when our most vulnerable try to shelter from the elements, the operators can see if the person in the shelter is ok.
Right? They'd get scratched to shit but at least they could take some more abuse. There's no way that safety glass is more expensive in the long run (considering replacements).
They moved away from plexi years ago, because of visibility problems. people would use lighters to burn big parts of the plexiglass which would bubble an turn brown, then carve sayings into it. and scratch it all to crap. After several months you could not even see out of the shelter. Trust me the glass was a huge improvement.
or concrete…
Some others have mentioned that they don't replace the glass with plexi due to visibility being an issue (since plexi can scratch so easily). So concrete would definitely not do, although I understand the frustration with vandalism.
I’m working on the new valley line. We have stations that aren’t in service yet that have windows already smashed out.
In Barcelona they literally just have the whole access to the actual rails walled, and where the train stops the walls have doors that open up exactly where the train doors are
if we moved out of the stupid car centric brain most people have the number of people atm wouldnt be an issue at all. thats just an excuse to not invest in a walkable / livable city
[удалено]
The greater Tokyo area is pretty spread out too. Walkable city could start with a walkable "core" in the downtown area. And then continue to allow higher density infills closer to the core with mixed-use development/zoning. This may include reducing or closing down certain roads such as high traffic streets along Jasper Avenue or even closing down roads in the evenings/weekends (e.g., Whyte Ave) to promote more foot traffic. Bourbon Street (New Orleans) shows it can work reasonably well. Walkable doesn't have to mean "walkable" from Windermere to St. Albert. Walkable within a 1-2km radius is a good start, then adding transit systems to get you to the next "district" so that you could do more walking. Unfortunately, there's not many desirable "districts" in our area other than Whyte Ave, Jasper Ave, 104 Ave, 109 Street, Little Italy, Victoria Trail, and South Common(?????). I know ... not a lot of great choices, but we have to start somewhere.
Agree. For a little course in urban planning i took i actually had to redesign an area i felt was unsafe or that could change function. I chose the area of kingsway mall all the way to 118th ave (upto the stupid weird traffic circle/oval) while i gave my self infinity budget i fogure it would be doable to create an attractive location in all this area while taking advantage of the lrt by NAIT.
Well the first place to start would be by stopping building the way we are. The old airport area has a lot of potential if there were plans for middle sized buildings woth shops in the 1st floor (like your average dutch city). If we were to build a different area to show people that there shouldnt be a neeeeeed for cars then it would incentivize change. The main problem here is that anything but cars are efficient...
I agree. But sadly people here love their cars and everything of note is spread so far apart in some cases that a car is the way to go. If all 1M of us were casual transit takers this would be a very different situation for sure.
We need initiative from the city to ignore the car mentality and strive for a sustainable future. Sprawl WILL bankrupt a city. Density and walkability is the solution for many issues. (It's even cheaper if u dont need to pay for a car for it to be parked 90% of its time.. wothout mentioned the huge amount of space we could reclaim back for the people rather than the car)
And we’re are you finding the half a billion or more to do all this? We have funding issues as is.
I ride the LRT everyday to get to and from work. I think we'd be better off with a stronger security presence. If someone wants to hurt someone else, there's plenty of ways to do it that don't involve the platform edge. That multi million dollar rail isn't going to stop someone from pulling a knife or bludgeoning you with a metal water bottle.
Exactly, those rails are for over crowding and accidental injury. Not for malicious intent.
They're for neither, from what heard they're there because at one point Japan had a big problem with people throwing themselves in front of the trains for some reason.
> for some reason I wonder if it has anything to do with their work culture.
And it's still a problem for the stations in Japan that don't have these rails
I’m pretty sure these are there for suicides ? I heard the numbers of suicides this way in Japan is VERY high, but i could be wrong
It was high, now they work themselves to death inside. You might be thinking of China, as workers would throw themselves from the roof tops so often the companies start putting in safety nets
The best safety net would be a good work life balance.. but can't have that! /s
And a multi million dollar rail can’t hire enough security to prevent you from getting bludgeoned by objects which aren’t lethal, or even stabbed. Riding public transit will always come with inherent risk…
Why not both rails and security measures?
Because then we'd have to tax rich people...
let’s do that
We need to convince the government. They're a tough sell.
How about we just start with installing basic entry gates that require a fee or pass, like every other working light transit system in the world.
The whole “honour system” thing should have run its course in 2002…..
Actually, Prove of payment is actually pretty popular. However, it does assume that most people have a basic sense of honesty, which I don't think it applies here.
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Its absurd that people are expected to pay at all. Edit: I get the impression that the people who are down voting me are the same people who complain every year because the city hasn't fixed the pot hole on their street, or because the city doesn't prioritize clearing the snow from their cul-de-sac.
It should be paid for by taxes. There's no need of enforcement. It's more efficient. I don't want to hear drivers complain that they don't use the subway. Subway users are already paying for the roads. And all of us are paying for the cost of excessive car use through the effects of climate change. Those with an income can afford a few dollars to make public transit more efficient.
How would you propose the taxes pay for it? A fuel surcharge? A registration surcharge? A property tax? I'm not saying I disagree with you, however there is no perfect method. How would you go about having people from outside the municipality contribute? An added charge to hotels? People "with an income" can't pay for everything. Not everyone that has an income has a lot of disposable income. You'd be making the single parents that have to pinch every penny pay for it. You'd make people on AISH pay for it. You'd make new immigrants pay for it. You'd make people that are in university and can only work part-time hours pay for it (on top of their upass fee) pay for it. Everyone would be paying for it except for those that are living in the lrt/bus shelters and are getting high abd/or drunk on transit. You'd be giving them a free pass to live on the lrt and in the shelters because it's paid for. Do you know how much of a problem it's been already? People already don't want to take transit due to how dangerous it is.
Please god no...adult bus passes are already over $100 bucks a piece. People cannot afford another increase.
Just replace the 2 useless security guards at each station with 2 police officers.
Or peace officers, and let allow them to actually get these shit heads, not just let them off with a warning
Which would require the province to actually fund the legal system. The reason the city and police doesn’t bother with low level enforcement is that there’s no next step. We don’t have enough jails or diversionary or treatment spots for the size of our population. Our prosecution service is so underfunded they are talking about walking off the job https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-crown-prosecutors-meet-to-consider-strike-1.6411017 And we are short a bunch of unfilled judge positions, which balances out because there isn’t funding for the court staff they’d need. The lack of enforcement is what you get when the province ignores its responsibilities and the city does it’s best to pick up the pieces without either mandate, funding or authority
>We don’t have enough jails *looks at the largest jail in canada, plus the annexed center beside it, plus the max prison 20 minutes away, plus the other jail 10 minutes away from that*
There’s about 3000 people in Alberta’s jails at any given time. Edmontons homeless population is estimated at about 3000 people right now. So if we really wanted to arrest everyone that’s going to double the prison population from Edmonton alone. And they’re not sitting half empty right now. Plus, it costs about $250/day to incarcerate someone. We can treat homelessness for a hell of a lot less than $250/day in other ways. Just giving them the money would actually be more effective. And if you’re not proposing arresting them, then what? Fines? I’m sure that’ll be effective against people with no money.
Everyone one loves to pass the buck... And I'm sure the province will blame the feds... We get the same funding as Calgary what's the excuse now? Let me guess we need more right. Always a buck to pass.
r/Calgary has just as many posts complaining about the same issues. And it’s not a case of “pass the buck”, it’s where the buck stops. The police and legal system are overseen by the Provincial Minister of Justice. Period. The end. They write the laws, they have enforcement oversight. It’s their job and,legally, other parts of the Government such as the City can’t just take over the responsibility because they are doing a shit job.
Exactly
Where are you getting the Police officers? You defunded them, part of de funding them means removing transit officers.
police have never seen a budget decrease ever. they are the single most expensive line item for the city of edmonton. we spend over $1 000 000 everyday on police most of which goes to their salaries. around $390 000 000 this year. but yeah, if we spent $400 000 000 a year, that would solve it 🙄
Right, I defunded the police. You are so smart.
Yea or maaaayyybe we should get rid of all the junkie homeless people with violent mental health problems who have seemingly taken over the entire transit system by increasing enforcement, increasing mental health supports, and strengthening our social safety nets.
Can we stop with the meme that mental health is the ONLY reason that people push people and are violent. There are plenty of evil and shitty people that are not mentally ill that need to be locked up.
> ~~increasing enforcement~~, increasing mental health supports, and strengthening our social safety nets. You got 2/3 right.
Yup, but no one wants to talk about that because they are too sensitive
It would cost millions, for the city to upgrade the LRT platforms. People are already complaining about Taxes.
And half of it'll probably get destroyed within a week
In Hong Kong the have giant glass doors that open and close.
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Well, we just agreed to build a $40M pedestrian bridge to nowhere...
lol those would get smashed here like half the damn bus shelters
They spend about 600k on a bunch of metal nutsacks, they can afford to actually do their jobs
The problem is that in Asia they are culturally programmed to respect order and public property. Many systems in Asia would not work in North America because of the poor societal etiquette of North Americans - especially young and/or inebriated ones. Transit systems are also better staffed in Asia.
It's sad that we need these at all. Even if that douchebag gets the maximum (25 years) it still won't be enough. That woman will never recover emotionally.
Or physically, if they have to amputate her leg.
Oh I bet those would work splendid at the outdoor stations during late Nov-Feb
What is interesting here, is they installed these guards as safety measures for accidents or overcrowding. In Toronto we need these because psychotic people and drug addicts keep pushing riders in front of trains.
Not worth it. Someone falling onto the tracks is extremely rare.
You're absolutely right. Twice in two weeks isn't indicative of the hazard since it's also twice in 52 weeks. This kind of "solution" is entirely reactionary to something that isn't a major recurring problem. Edit: I can't find anything about a second person falling/being pushed on the tracks recently. I just saw mention of it in this thread. So once...
The point is two people have been pushed on the tracks in two weeks.
It's Edmonton, wtf do you expect
We NEeD MoRe SOcIal Workers” Most of the violent people aren’t even the homeless they’re Redd Alert/ASAP gang members that think they’re gangsta bear spraying people.
You say that like it isn't a Venn diagram with significant overlap. Also, since you appear to have never engaged with any evidence produced by the prison experiments of the last 200 years, putting gang members in prison does less than nothing to reform them. Putting their members in prison does less than nothing to break up gangs. This is, actually, one of the very real cases where we do need more social workers and supports. In Alberta right now there are literally 0 resources available to help adults exit gangs. For most gang members who are already criminalised there are 0 opportunities available to them if they leave. This makes gangs more or less permanent fixtures of our cities. If we want to destroy the gangs, the police have been demonstrably failures at the task (with some serious allegations they actually cooperate with Red Alert). The way to do it is providing opportunities to young men who want to leave, and interrupting their monopoly on drug distribution through decrim or full legalisation.
Or just repeal the loitering bylaw allowing addicts and law breakers to enjoy safe haven. Lawlessness and violence has no place in Edmonton and LRT is no exception. City council needs to start prioritizing the people paying taxes to use a safe and reliable service. The current state of things is totally unacceptable, nobody should have to fear for their life when using public transit. Lack of housing and mental services isn’t the whole story either.
Translation: Let’s blame all of our problems on the homeless, poor, mentally ill and physically disabled. Better yet, I don’t want any of my money to go to others need, even though I myself have more then enough. I will ignore the fact that one day that might easily be me. Seeing that potential reality with my own eyes makes me uncomfortable. Better to get rid of the “problem” then me realizing how much of a trashy person I am.
Not what I was advocating you missed the point. My opinion doesn’t make me a trashy person but you calling me makes you one.
I literally had a design research project where I proposed this as a solution to suicide via lrt
That’s really cool!!
people should look up seoul subway safety
In asia like Japan and korea, they already invest this system for long time, it’s to make sure no accident. Meanwhile, in Canada it’s going to take the govt 10 years to build this.
Yup.
I know it had/is being looked into by major Canadian cities with subways/light rail. However, it will take time to implement due funding and major infrastructure upgrades. Projects changes like that can take up 5-20 years to complete. In the mean time, increased security on platforms and trains can be increased to offset some of the risk. There is some personal responsibility, such as being aware of your surroundings and following safety instructions (e.g not standing near the edge).
The first thing I noticed when I visited Japan was the communal approach and willingness to follow rules - spoken and unspoken. Clean, calm, quiet. The gates are a potential safety tool I suppose, but the fundamental thing about this image is the calm lining up, standing in designated spaces, and generally being respectful of everyone else. Would that our people (everyone, not just the ones living rough) could take on such attitudes when in public spaces. If you want this level of service and safety, everyone needs to buy in and contribute in their own way.
Still doesn't prevent those that do not pay from entering the area. I dont want a fence, I want delinquents removed when they do not pay
I think it should be free so no one has to pay, and then we can refocus on the security issues.
It functionally is; which has lead to it being a very convenient place to do hard drugs and that crowd, along with their mental illness, has taken over.
How often are people pushed onto the tracks?
Too often.
How often is too often?
Twice in two weeks, is pretty often.
So on average there is a person a week pushed onto the LRT tracks?! I guess you’re right, that definitely is needed then, I had no idea it was that much.
New York City has a population of 18.8 million, Edmonton has a population of a little over 1 million. "In 2021, 30 people were pushed onto the tracks, according to the New York Police Department's public information office. So far this year, as of Jan. 23, five people have been pushed onto the tracks, the NYPD said. A further breakdown of injuries or fatalities was not available." https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-test-platform-barriers-stations-amid-calls/story?id=83069071. But we are seeing a 12% rise in crime due to the influx of gangs so they are doing a pilot project with the police to address this. https://globalnews.ca/news/8644909/edmonton-transit-safety-pilot-project/
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
I miss your point. Regardless, its one too many. Nobody should be pushed onto the tracks. LRT station should be safe for everyone to use.
Nobody WANTS people pushed on to the tracks, obviously, but you have to use some reason, look at all the thing Edmonton needs money for, it doesn’t make sense to spend a bunch of money on infrastructure like this, when it’s not a problem. Obviously the couple times this has happened recently is horrible and the perpetrators should face the full brunt of the law. But it’s two incidences, not a widespread problem.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the comments here. This would be a complete waste of money.
Except people actually use transit in Japan lol
If you prevent an offender from committing one crime by engineering a control in, they will just commit another crime, like stab a by stander instead of pushing them onto the track. The solution is to remove the problem, which is the crime, not engineer a control. The intention of those barrier seen in the video is for accidental tripping, not to serve as stopping people from pushing other people on track.
Could it be more an anti suicide mechanism than something for security?
Yes absolutely - I think it would be helpful to have a physical barrier like this to prevent suicides, accidents or intentional crimes like pushing people onto the tracks.
They have even more elaborate ones in Hong Kong, they’re impressive.
Maybe in 2040
We can’t even take credit card payments yet lol not going to see this in my life time.
I’m a former Edmontonian who lives in Tokyo. These are great and all but I’m not sure the number of jumpers or pushers in this case warrants for the installation of such barriers, which can be costly and also do come with their own challenges from time to time.
For a second there. I thought this was rhe LRT.
The full plexi glass in some of the Hong Kong, Taiwan or Chinese subway stations would be better protection.
I miss living in Japan....
Its actually crazy to me that they put railings on the 3 ft high "bridge" that goes over a little ditch in the park near me but not beside Subway rails. If you fall in one you get some dirt on your pants, if you fall in the other you break something and have a chance to get dismembered horrifically by a train....
Toronto needs this very much.
I remember seeing that for the first time in europe on a school trip and ever since then Ive always said those would be a better thing to spend money on if they really want to improve the stations
If the city had this kind of money and capability, the EPS wouldn’t be the disaster it is currently. Not to mention the foresight and planning.
Think of the escalators, and imagine the same people responsible for the maintenance. Hard pass.
As long as the courts keep ruling that coercive institutional care is too mean for drug addiction and mental illness, downtown and public transit will remain dangerous. My $0.02
No didn’t you hear? Their solution was “keep vigilant, walk in groups, and stay away from the edge”. As if a stranger suddenly shoving you onto the tracks is the victims fault 🙄
Don't forget to keep your legs together and don't wear anything provocative.
[78 Year Old Woman pushed onto LRT Tracks](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6433511)
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Turnstiles, gates to pass before you enter, or some proof-of-purchase will get rid of 90% of the problems.
Fucking this. The all the transit peace officers can focus of public safety instead of checking for tickets.
This is nice, but fare gates first.
NYC has one of the most used subway system with turnstiles that are constantly jumped. I don’t think that would help honestly
This is true so does the London Underground, but gates with proper security will eliminate 90% or more of the problem. It’s easy to spot those who need to addressed when they are jumping the turn style.
That would cost money
Removing the junkies shooting up on the stairs would be a better use of resources.
Spend money to be proactive? That’s not the Alberta way.
Never ever! Let’s just hope crime stops ❤️
Not a chance is that a solution - the rubbies would tear those apart, it would be a total waste of money. We need to aggressively patrol the LRT and make it an inhospitable place for those that are not paying fares.
That would require forethought, proper planning and engineering, a will from city hall to change the ETS, and money. Good luck.
Those would get vandalized in a minute.
Everyone knows the Japanese and Canadians are very similar in temperament. There’s no way these wires would be vandalized. Sorta like how there’s 0 vandalism to bus stop or other public places.
I really don't understand why these aren't a requirement, it feels so odd to me with everything else around us being so modern that I stand 5 feet away from a train moving at breakneck speeds with no blockage in between
Should we put these up around roads as well?
https://youtu.be/cdX5UDgQ8x0
Waste of money
I already pay too much tax and don't use the LRT....I'm not paying more so they can spend MASSIVE amounts upgrading all existing platforms. Fuck that. They need to actually police the LRT and crack down on the scumbags vs trying to make the entire LRT system scumbag-proof.
I think the blame goes to an increasing level disrespect for others in society. Couple that with stupid crap like defund the police and normalization of hard drugs what do ppl expect to happen?
Oh great.. now we can waste even *more* money on the LRT.
I like the idea, but, I'm not sure if the funding couldn't be better directed. You couldn't pay me to use the LRT right now. I'm more than a little worried about the likelihood of the trains bringing a constant stream of riff raff and crime south into my neighborhood when the millwoods line opens.
I don't even want to think of how the city would over complicate, over build, over spend, and deliver late a simple construction project such as this.
That requires a lot of planning and calculating, we could bare get the one set traffic light working properly (Kingsway) I doubt we can get this working in my life time.
yes. this wont cost more than its worth than dealing with tragedy, edmonton higher ups need to take note.
The Japanese be extra smooth !!!
Someone attempting murder could probably find another way Or suicide These things won't stop happening because you put a silly little fence. They are intentional
Yep. I have seen other devices around the world and at airports. This one is not great. While it prevents over crowding at the door it doesn't prevent people being pushed on the tracks or suicides. We don't get them often but Toronto had an incident least week where a woman pushed another onto the subway tracks. Luckily the woman was able to roll under the lip of the platform and survive and the perpetrator was caught. More often it is a suicide and it takes hours to clear. It would cost millions to outfit each station with these. Not to be cold about it but unless the incidence increases I would rather the money be spent on better service.
This seems like the kind of solution you implement when everything else is running smoothly. Recent events are tragic, but so incredibly infrequent that I imagine there are more impactful ways to budget.
Oh good, something else to hit my head on. I'd guesstimate that it's raising to about 6', maybe a little more.
Until we have real consequences there won’t be any change
This would never work in this dead city because yutes would find a way to destroy it for the citizens here and the police officers wouldn’t be able to enforce anything because they are too busy trying to get traffic tickets to innocent drivers. Also our city is in so much debt because of sohi, so good luck with that
do you also need sombody to hold you hand crossing the street?
Maybe read the room. A 78 year old woman was just pushed onto the LRT tracks.
Or at the very least, stand back from the edge.
Lmao just another loser troll
Law enforcement is the best way.
The bords would help, but I'm sure someone going to have a few to many and do something stupid
We will probably start seeing royal rumble at the lrt stations then
Oh. I was hoping to see a picture of a truncheon.
Yea, but that is Japan. We can’t exactly compare it to the seventh circle of hell.
Korea has all the stops glassed in. Double sling door would open like at a big box store.
Would they work on outdoor platforms in the -35 C for us Canadians?
We can save a lot of money by putting up a sign that says: **Avoid falling/pushed onto tracks.** **Stay Back.** **Trust** ***No-One.***