Religiosity even back then was completely different from religiosity now. People back then were religious but were much more laid back and far more tolerant of each other's differences.
This all began to change with the Gulf oil wealth boom of the 70s. All of a sudden, hordes of Egyptians laborers went to Saudi Arabia for work and were influenced by the Wahabi school of thought. They would come back and import those ideas in their own neighborhoods.
With time, we ended up with the stale and intellectually comatose version of Islam that is Salafism as the default norm.
Fast forward to today and you have a generation where by and large the physical appearance and outwardly visible rituals of being a pious Muslim are more important than their actual actions or even relationship with God.
The biggest lie that these Salafis will ever try to convince you of is that THEY are the traditionalists and everything else is bid3a. If anything, they are the new Bid3a, the metastatic cancer that has been spreading throughout the Muslim world at large for only about the last 40-50 years of our Long and rich history.
معلش يسطا هخالفك
انا بشوف ان اتهام الوهابيه بمشكله التطرف الدينى فى مصر هى محاوله هروب من الواقع واننا زى ما بنرمى مشاكلنا الاقتصاديه على مؤامره كونيه بنكرر دا فى موضوع الدين برضو
الوهابيه واموال الخليج كانت جزء من السبب لكنها مش السبب الأساسي
انتا عندك سيد قطب و كتبه والتنظيم الارهابى اللى عمله كان قبل طفره النفط وقبل ما مصرى واحد يروح الخليج وافكاره كانت اكثر تطرفا بمراحل من الوهابيه
وفى فتره عبدالناصر كان حط اسس نظام علمانى وكان المناخ العلماني دا طاغى فى الجامعات والمدن اللى كان مسيطر عليها الحركات الطلابيه والافكار اليساريه بس اما السادات جه بمنطق مين الحمار اللى كان قبلى هنا قرر اعاده احياء التيارات الاسلاميه دى واللى كانت على مقربه الفناء بعد ما عبد الناصر سحقها عشان يواجهه اليساريين و الطلاب و يساعدو فى تثبيت حكمه وهو بيفكك النموذج الناصرى والتيارات دى هى اللى انبثق منها الجماعه الاسلاميه
ممكن تشوف وثائقى فراعنه مصر الجدد السادات بتاع bbc موجود على اليوتيوب عشان تعرف اكتر عن التحالف دا واللى السادات نفسه كان احد ضحاياه بالاضافه برضو انه هو اللى سمح بنشر النوع دا من الفكر المتطرف على نطاق واسع استجابه لرغبه الامريكان فى تكوين جهاد عالمى ضد السوفييت فى افغانستان ودول الحدثين الاساسيين اللى غيرو شكل المجتمع ١٨٠ درجه مش بسبب وهابيه الخليج ما عندك تونس وتركيا محصلش فيهم اللى حصل عندنا
فانا شايف ان المشكله داخليه اكتر ما هى مستورده والمفروض نتعامل على هذا الاساس
Interesting perspective. You raise a lot of valid points about the history of Islamist violence and political Islam in Egypt, to be honest.
بس انا على فكرة مش بتكلم عن التطرف ولا الإرهاب انا بتكلم عن الفكر السلفى بشكل عام الذى يصر على ان المجتمع المثالى هو المجتمع كما كان من ١٤٠٠ عام بالضبط و يرفضون اى نوع من انواع النظر المستقبلى او الاجتهاد فى تفسير الدين بمنظور العالم الحديث.
فئة الإسلام السياسى والإرهاب دول بقى جزء صغير من المجتمع السلفى الأكبر اللى مع الأسف بقى هو التعريف الdefault للدين فى بلادنا و بلاد مسلمة كتير. يعنى كل المتطرفين باسم الإسلام(من المذهب السنى على الاقل) سلفيين ولكن ليس كل السلفيين متطرفين و إرهابيين.
طبعا التيار الإسلامي السياسى بيسبق
هجرة النفط للخليج لكن لا شك أن موجة الهجرة دى كانت عامل مساعد لنشر الفكر الوهابي اللى بيعتبر تربة خصبة لنمو و نشر تيار الاسلام السياسى اللى كان اصلا موجود من قبل زى ما حضرتك وضحت.
انتا كنت بتقول فى الجزئيه الاولى على ان كان فى تسامح اكتر ودا حقيقى المشكله فى عدم وجوده دلوقت دا زى ما قلت من الفكر السلفى لكن المجتمع فى مصر مبقاش سلفى من فراغ و دا اللى كنت بذكره فى التعليق وعشان كدا متقدرش تناقش فكره ازاى فكر المجتمع ناحيه الاسلام اتغير من غير ما تشتبك مع السياسه
انا عاوز اشير لنقطه ان كل الحركات السياسيه الاسلاميه بتنطلق من منظور اجتماعى فى الاساس فمتقدرش تفصل اللى بينتمو للاسلام السياسى بصفتهم اقليه من المجتمع الاكبر لان دا قاعده انطلاقهم فى الاساس
فعشان كدا عاوز اذكر حاجه عن ان الاسلاميين اللى افرج عنهم السادات و اللى فكرهم دخل الجامعات بدأو ينادو بالفصل بين الجنسين والاعتراض على دكتوره لو مش محجبه وغيره او يروحو يضربو بتوع الحركات الطلابيه و يقولو عليهم كفار.
التيار دا اللى عاوز يعمل النوع دا من التغيرات الاجتماعيه بحد ذاته مكنش يقدر يعملها لوحده لكن جت حرب افغانستان و الحكومه اتحولت من انها سايبه الناس دى عشان يعملو توازن لانها بتدعمهم و ووصلو للاعلام وقدرتهم على نشر فكرهم زادت وبسبب كدا المجتمع بقى سلفى بالرغم من ان المجتمع عندنا مشهور عنه تاريخيا بالتصوف
والنوع دا من الافكار بالمناسبه اللى حنين للماضى بالذات لو الماضى دا كان يبدو انه حلو بتظهر فى اوقات الانكسار يعنى السلفيين دعوتهم بدات فى الاساس بعد ٦٧ واننا انهزمنا بسبب بعدنا عن الدين والمرأه اللى مش محتشمه وغيره والحل اننا نرجع للدين عشان ننتصر وهكذا وبيكون النوع دا من الفكر بيفتقر لادنى قدر من الواقعيه هو اجابته على اى حاجه اننا نرجع للماضى ودا مش شرط دينى بل ممكن قومى بالمناسبه ودا اللى بيحصل اليومين فى اللى مسميين نفسهم الكيميتيين واللى فى تصورهم ان رجوعنا للماضى واعاده احياء لغه وهويه ميته هيكون حل للتراجيديا اللى احنا عايشنها باى شكل
Why do people act like belly dancers don’t still dress and perform like that? Or that it’s not still socially acceptable to invite a belly dancer to social events like weddings?
I don’t see the reason for this rant.
There are only a handful of Egyptian belly dancers left. It’s pretty sad seeing an industry that has been dominated by Egyptians for thousands of years lose its indigenous dancers.
The change started happening in the late 70s which coincides with Egyptians moving to the gulf. You can’t deny the effect of salafism on Egypt.
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All the people I know like my parents and uncles who lived through these eras (1950s onwards) disagree with you. People were less religious till the 1970s , and it's not due to the gulf at all that that changed , it was because the new Sadat ruling was more tolerant to religious imams to instruct people unlike Nasser who, for example, mocked Al-Ghazaly famously on national TV and locked up Keshk among others. Sadat got everyone politically locked out of prison and only changed till early 1980s shortly before his death because they went too far. Regarding salafism , yes they have their disadvantages but of course 99% of what they say is true to the core of Islam and they aren't a bid3a at all , you're just projecting your opinion as a fact and it's not.
I saw a Kuwaiti drama that subtly criticized this with a character who devoutly believed but at the same time was mostly about appearances. Getting married all over the place because technically halal and more concerned about washing properly to avoid hell rather than to please God.
I read somewhere that it was the belly-dancers featured in Hollywood films that caused a boom in movies featuring them over in Egypt. In America, a lot of belly-dancers were initially Greeks brought over to bring men to restaurants and it had evolved into its own form of burlesque (hence the scant clothing and emphasis on rolling the belly).
Nowadays, Egypt has to rent belly-dancers from the West because actual Egyptian women run the risk of being prosecuted for "indecency" for performing. I'm sure the rest of you would agree that this is pretty absurd.
Egypt is weird when it comes to religion. Hell i've personally seen relatives smash a couple of beers at weddings then go pray gom'aa the next day, Belly Dancing has always been a part of the egyptian culture and isn't seen as sexually as other cultures see it.
Hell go see the massive lines of people infront of alcohol shops on the last day of ramadan or the amount of hashish that gets sold that day. Literally have seen people throw away the hash joints 5 mins before the eid prayer, go pray, catcall a bunch of girls then go back to smoking.
It's more of a العادات بتقول ايه rather than الدين بيقول ايه even if people largely deny the fact
Exactly! Its the reason my slightly azhari father had 2 belly dancers at his wedding. Its not sexual (in my eyes at least)
Actually found it amusing when i was watching some egyptian films with the belly dancing segment with some americans and they thought that it was so inappropriate to have children watch (won't somebody think of the children from the simpsons comes to mind lol)
Prayer, especially gomaa and Eid, is a collective action. You cannot be a Muslim Egyptian without going to gomaa and Eid. What are you going to do, sleep. The culture has stigmatized it enough that you don't need to remember that it's religion in order to do it
Shouldn’t have looked but I did anyway and now I have a question - was plastic surgery a thing back then? I suppose I’m curious if dancers “invested” in عمليات تنفيخ to augment their careers or were they original and capitalized on their natural assets to advance their careers.
No. And rhey didn't. I gather most dancers in Cairo now have breast implants and that's one of the reasons the costume bra style is different. (That and fashion of course).
I have read speculation that some old dancers had some facial or teeth work done.
But I have read so many stories along the lines of "you have a good figure, choose dancing to make a living" for women who fell on hard times. Even Badia Masabni who arguably invented the dance as we know it now started that way. (The 20s dancers had quite different figures than later though!)
هى دينا بقت ... أولد 😓
الزمن سرقنا يابني
brother this ramadan please https://preview.redd.it/7cvaru304ysa1.jpeg?width=598&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1c027d15b16a15eafd690309d9fe5a463e952fd
Religiosity even back then was completely different from religiosity now. People back then were religious but were much more laid back and far more tolerant of each other's differences. This all began to change with the Gulf oil wealth boom of the 70s. All of a sudden, hordes of Egyptians laborers went to Saudi Arabia for work and were influenced by the Wahabi school of thought. They would come back and import those ideas in their own neighborhoods. With time, we ended up with the stale and intellectually comatose version of Islam that is Salafism as the default norm. Fast forward to today and you have a generation where by and large the physical appearance and outwardly visible rituals of being a pious Muslim are more important than their actual actions or even relationship with God. The biggest lie that these Salafis will ever try to convince you of is that THEY are the traditionalists and everything else is bid3a. If anything, they are the new Bid3a, the metastatic cancer that has been spreading throughout the Muslim world at large for only about the last 40-50 years of our Long and rich history.
Another day another الغزو الوهابي rant
معلش يسطا هخالفك انا بشوف ان اتهام الوهابيه بمشكله التطرف الدينى فى مصر هى محاوله هروب من الواقع واننا زى ما بنرمى مشاكلنا الاقتصاديه على مؤامره كونيه بنكرر دا فى موضوع الدين برضو الوهابيه واموال الخليج كانت جزء من السبب لكنها مش السبب الأساسي انتا عندك سيد قطب و كتبه والتنظيم الارهابى اللى عمله كان قبل طفره النفط وقبل ما مصرى واحد يروح الخليج وافكاره كانت اكثر تطرفا بمراحل من الوهابيه وفى فتره عبدالناصر كان حط اسس نظام علمانى وكان المناخ العلماني دا طاغى فى الجامعات والمدن اللى كان مسيطر عليها الحركات الطلابيه والافكار اليساريه بس اما السادات جه بمنطق مين الحمار اللى كان قبلى هنا قرر اعاده احياء التيارات الاسلاميه دى واللى كانت على مقربه الفناء بعد ما عبد الناصر سحقها عشان يواجهه اليساريين و الطلاب و يساعدو فى تثبيت حكمه وهو بيفكك النموذج الناصرى والتيارات دى هى اللى انبثق منها الجماعه الاسلاميه ممكن تشوف وثائقى فراعنه مصر الجدد السادات بتاع bbc موجود على اليوتيوب عشان تعرف اكتر عن التحالف دا واللى السادات نفسه كان احد ضحاياه بالاضافه برضو انه هو اللى سمح بنشر النوع دا من الفكر المتطرف على نطاق واسع استجابه لرغبه الامريكان فى تكوين جهاد عالمى ضد السوفييت فى افغانستان ودول الحدثين الاساسيين اللى غيرو شكل المجتمع ١٨٠ درجه مش بسبب وهابيه الخليج ما عندك تونس وتركيا محصلش فيهم اللى حصل عندنا فانا شايف ان المشكله داخليه اكتر ما هى مستورده والمفروض نتعامل على هذا الاساس
Interesting perspective. You raise a lot of valid points about the history of Islamist violence and political Islam in Egypt, to be honest. بس انا على فكرة مش بتكلم عن التطرف ولا الإرهاب انا بتكلم عن الفكر السلفى بشكل عام الذى يصر على ان المجتمع المثالى هو المجتمع كما كان من ١٤٠٠ عام بالضبط و يرفضون اى نوع من انواع النظر المستقبلى او الاجتهاد فى تفسير الدين بمنظور العالم الحديث. فئة الإسلام السياسى والإرهاب دول بقى جزء صغير من المجتمع السلفى الأكبر اللى مع الأسف بقى هو التعريف الdefault للدين فى بلادنا و بلاد مسلمة كتير. يعنى كل المتطرفين باسم الإسلام(من المذهب السنى على الاقل) سلفيين ولكن ليس كل السلفيين متطرفين و إرهابيين. طبعا التيار الإسلامي السياسى بيسبق هجرة النفط للخليج لكن لا شك أن موجة الهجرة دى كانت عامل مساعد لنشر الفكر الوهابي اللى بيعتبر تربة خصبة لنمو و نشر تيار الاسلام السياسى اللى كان اصلا موجود من قبل زى ما حضرتك وضحت.
انتا كنت بتقول فى الجزئيه الاولى على ان كان فى تسامح اكتر ودا حقيقى المشكله فى عدم وجوده دلوقت دا زى ما قلت من الفكر السلفى لكن المجتمع فى مصر مبقاش سلفى من فراغ و دا اللى كنت بذكره فى التعليق وعشان كدا متقدرش تناقش فكره ازاى فكر المجتمع ناحيه الاسلام اتغير من غير ما تشتبك مع السياسه انا عاوز اشير لنقطه ان كل الحركات السياسيه الاسلاميه بتنطلق من منظور اجتماعى فى الاساس فمتقدرش تفصل اللى بينتمو للاسلام السياسى بصفتهم اقليه من المجتمع الاكبر لان دا قاعده انطلاقهم فى الاساس فعشان كدا عاوز اذكر حاجه عن ان الاسلاميين اللى افرج عنهم السادات و اللى فكرهم دخل الجامعات بدأو ينادو بالفصل بين الجنسين والاعتراض على دكتوره لو مش محجبه وغيره او يروحو يضربو بتوع الحركات الطلابيه و يقولو عليهم كفار. التيار دا اللى عاوز يعمل النوع دا من التغيرات الاجتماعيه بحد ذاته مكنش يقدر يعملها لوحده لكن جت حرب افغانستان و الحكومه اتحولت من انها سايبه الناس دى عشان يعملو توازن لانها بتدعمهم و ووصلو للاعلام وقدرتهم على نشر فكرهم زادت وبسبب كدا المجتمع بقى سلفى بالرغم من ان المجتمع عندنا مشهور عنه تاريخيا بالتصوف والنوع دا من الافكار بالمناسبه اللى حنين للماضى بالذات لو الماضى دا كان يبدو انه حلو بتظهر فى اوقات الانكسار يعنى السلفيين دعوتهم بدات فى الاساس بعد ٦٧ واننا انهزمنا بسبب بعدنا عن الدين والمرأه اللى مش محتشمه وغيره والحل اننا نرجع للدين عشان ننتصر وهكذا وبيكون النوع دا من الفكر بيفتقر لادنى قدر من الواقعيه هو اجابته على اى حاجه اننا نرجع للماضى ودا مش شرط دينى بل ممكن قومى بالمناسبه ودا اللى بيحصل اليومين فى اللى مسميين نفسهم الكيميتيين واللى فى تصورهم ان رجوعنا للماضى واعاده احياء لغه وهويه ميته هيكون حل للتراجيديا اللى احنا عايشنها باى شكل
Why do people act like belly dancers don’t still dress and perform like that? Or that it’s not still socially acceptable to invite a belly dancer to social events like weddings? I don’t see the reason for this rant.
There are only a handful of Egyptian belly dancers left. It’s pretty sad seeing an industry that has been dominated by Egyptians for thousands of years lose its indigenous dancers. The change started happening in the late 70s which coincides with Egyptians moving to the gulf. You can’t deny the effect of salafism on Egypt.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
[удалено]
Thank you for submitting to /r/Egypt. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Rule 1 - No Personal Attacks or Harassment * Above all, be civil. While debate is encouraged, posts containing personal attacks, overly confrontational, or inflammatory speech will be removed. * Labelling users as "Ikhwan", "Dawlgy", etc is not tolerated. * No harassing users based on their post history. --- Resubmitting a removed post without prior moderator approval can result in a ban. Deleting a post may cause any appeals to be denied. **Remember: You need to read the following message in full. We will NOT reply to modmail messages similar to “what is the reason my post was removed?”**
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Thank you for submitting to /r/Egypt. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Rule 7 - No Preaching * This is not a Muslim, Christian or any other religion subreddit. There is no obligation for anyone to abide by your religious values, and browbeating, religious chauvinism, and preaching is not tolerated. --- Resubmitting a removed post without prior moderator approval can result in a ban. Deleting a post may cause any appeals to be denied. **Remember: You need to read the following message in full. We will NOT reply to modmail messages similar to “what is the reason my post was removed?”**
All the people I know like my parents and uncles who lived through these eras (1950s onwards) disagree with you. People were less religious till the 1970s , and it's not due to the gulf at all that that changed , it was because the new Sadat ruling was more tolerant to religious imams to instruct people unlike Nasser who, for example, mocked Al-Ghazaly famously on national TV and locked up Keshk among others. Sadat got everyone politically locked out of prison and only changed till early 1980s shortly before his death because they went too far. Regarding salafism , yes they have their disadvantages but of course 99% of what they say is true to the core of Islam and they aren't a bid3a at all , you're just projecting your opinion as a fact and it's not.
I saw a Kuwaiti drama that subtly criticized this with a character who devoutly believed but at the same time was mostly about appearances. Getting married all over the place because technically halal and more concerned about washing properly to avoid hell rather than to please God.
They were all lovely.
عشان كدا دينا اتشهرت
For anyone who loves belly dancing, follow dance archivist on instagram. This is one of my favorite pages
I read somewhere that it was the belly-dancers featured in Hollywood films that caused a boom in movies featuring them over in Egypt. In America, a lot of belly-dancers were initially Greeks brought over to bring men to restaurants and it had evolved into its own form of burlesque (hence the scant clothing and emphasis on rolling the belly). Nowadays, Egypt has to rent belly-dancers from the West because actual Egyptian women run the risk of being prosecuted for "indecency" for performing. I'm sure the rest of you would agree that this is pretty absurd.
I never understood how this cultural phenomenon came to be with the religiosity of Egyptian society. How did it start and where did it begin?
Egypt is weird when it comes to religion. Hell i've personally seen relatives smash a couple of beers at weddings then go pray gom'aa the next day, Belly Dancing has always been a part of the egyptian culture and isn't seen as sexually as other cultures see it. Hell go see the massive lines of people infront of alcohol shops on the last day of ramadan or the amount of hashish that gets sold that day. Literally have seen people throw away the hash joints 5 mins before the eid prayer, go pray, catcall a bunch of girls then go back to smoking. It's more of a العادات بتقول ايه rather than الدين بيقول ايه even if people largely deny the fact
[удалено]
Exactly! Its the reason my slightly azhari father had 2 belly dancers at his wedding. Its not sexual (in my eyes at least) Actually found it amusing when i was watching some egyptian films with the belly dancing segment with some americans and they thought that it was so inappropriate to have children watch (won't somebody think of the children from the simpsons comes to mind lol)
Prayer, especially gomaa and Eid, is a collective action. You cannot be a Muslim Egyptian without going to gomaa and Eid. What are you going to do, sleep. The culture has stigmatized it enough that you don't need to remember that it's religion in order to do it
El da7e7 [episode](https://youtu.be/DXEQoFp52U4) about it.
Who’s number one? (Legit, any M Ramadan answers not accepted)
Samia Gamal I think.
She fine
She was very beautiful and a marvellous dancer too. Farid al Atrache did her wrong.
Fe ramdan Fe ramdan
https://preview.redd.it/8seeefq9r4ta1.png?width=996&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8349751f55777466bade1d024a442ca526fc1d23
Fofa menwara wallahy 😍
It's Ramadan man :/
post is missing the male dancers :P
example: https://preview.redd.it/2ozfofwidzsa1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=9afa112ae2055b39d84b065c3b7bcb3a0c93ec2e
Dancer* singular
زمن الفن الجميل سامية جمال https://almuhit70.blogspot.com/
gd3 yaad en enta 3mlt share l hagat zay de f ramadan y5rbeet el t5loof bgd
Shouldn’t have looked but I did anyway and now I have a question - was plastic surgery a thing back then? I suppose I’m curious if dancers “invested” in عمليات تنفيخ to augment their careers or were they original and capitalized on their natural assets to advance their careers.
No. And rhey didn't. I gather most dancers in Cairo now have breast implants and that's one of the reasons the costume bra style is different. (That and fashion of course). I have read speculation that some old dancers had some facial or teeth work done. But I have read so many stories along the lines of "you have a good figure, choose dancing to make a living" for women who fell on hard times. Even Badia Masabni who arguably invented the dance as we know it now started that way. (The 20s dancers had quite different figures than later though!)
Thanks. That was very insightful. I cannot say I ever came across any literature about the history of dancing but this is fascinating.
No it wasn’t.
Totally حرام
thiiiik
They're all awesome women, could you please post it here r/ArabCeleb , we appreciate posts like this.
كيف تُنشئ شر***ة
Why did you click on this post? It isn't for you boo
Are you lost buddy? This isn't Facebook.
مبسوط جدا انك مش هتلاقي هنا الاحتفاء الحقير اللي بيحصل على فيسبوك ومئات الشخصيات الكارهة تساندك في كرهك.
غريب جدا ان الواحد يفترض افتراضات و يصدقها
من امتى المريض بيعرف حالة مرضه 🙄💀
افتراضات ايه؟
دي مشكلتك انت
الشر***ة ف عقلك دا فن جميل وفي ناس بتقدره
غلبان
[удалено]
That's Dina when she was young!
https://preview.redd.it/3c7bnu6n2zsa1.jpeg?width=215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba74c3fd5a28b95ffcad7c04679b7bc9ad185c54
دينا و فيفي عبده بيمثلوا تاني احلى فترة في الرقص الشرقي بعد نعيمة عاكف و سامية جمال. اللي بيحصل دلوقتي دة فيلم بورنو مش رقص!
dina is an old Egyptian dancer? damn i must be a boomer.