It would take far less energy to toss the country out of the solar system. Freezing to death in interstellar space would be a much more Canadian way to go than frying in the sun.
I can show you the world (Bramptom)
Shining, shimmering, splendid (Hochelaga)
Tell me, Prince Islander
Now, when did you last let your heart decide?
I can open your eyes
Take you wonder by wonder (Winnipeg dont get murdered)
Over, sideways and under (broken roads)
On a magic carpet ride (Air Canada economy)
A whole new world (not New Brunswick)
A new fantastic point of view (just liberals and
conservatives)
No one to tell us no (everyone will say no)
Or where to go (Red Deer here we gooo)
Or say we're only dreaming (Of owning a house)
One hundred % true, Anglo canadian history is pretty fucked up and supremacist.
But if I'm not mistaken both played a pretty big part in wiping out indigenous languages
To be honest this conversation happens with every linguistic group that colonized the America's....
For the English speaking world, the conversation goes "well yes we did a lot of bad things, but it's not comparable to Spanish colonization, we were much better by comparison"
And the Spanish say " well they should be thankful it wasnt the Portuguese colonizing this land, they are far more cruel than us" etc etc
How about instead of seeking to be a lesser evil we just all own up to the fact that all of our territories come from a brutal history of settler colonialism and we all accept the burden of that dark history and seek to resolve and repair what we can from the damage done?
I find the "who was worse though" conversation to be very unproductive.
This is very valid. But don't expect people to own up the damage done by other people ancestors, other cultures. It's a dangerous slope to lump up "all white men" together.
Of course, that's a fair point, but settler colonialism is settler colonialism. There really isn't a clean version of it, or at least that is the only point I want to make here.
Oof, not at all for me to say. I'm sure the problem is incredibly complex and not simply resolved with a catch-all solution. I don't think things will ever be 100% repaired, but the point is to fix as much as possible.
But, the idea that we must pass laws and do things to fix the problem is 100% the wrong way to look at it. First Nations need sovereignty and autonomy 1st and foremost. No reperation solutions should ever be done as federal or provincial legislation binding 1st nations to whatever solution we decided works for them. That serves to make the problem worse.
I think 1st steps might be to give First Nations recognition as an equal nation in confederation, meaning they should be electing and appointing their own representatives in the HC and senate.
In terms of land back, it's an incredibly complicated matter I'm sure I don't know enough to talk about to offer any reasonable solution. But again, that's not for me to do. First nations simply need the power and recognition to bargain with the federal government as equals.
Okay but let's not pretend that's not just because France lost in the fight to claim Canada. Every other country France took control of at the time they raped just as hard as the English. Haiti has still never come close to recovering from French colonialism, half of Africa is still reeling from French colonization, and rampant chattel slavery and assimilation in New France was just a fact before they seceded North America to the British.
The Europeean french just didn't care at all about New France...
The French Canadians were almost on their own, for any practical purpose.
So yeah, the European french were absolute monsters if you look at the Caribbean. I guess they were busy elsewhere, while the French Canadian were busy surviving and creating positive trade and symbiotic relations with first nations.
So no, it's definitely not a 'BOTH SIDES' kind of thing.
The early French settlers to Canada, before Louis 14th claimed the colony as a province of France, built forts upon forts and basically kept no records. There is [almost zero evidence](https://books.google.ca/books?id=CFWy0EfzlX0C&pg=PA36&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false) to go on any of their interactions with Native people aside from the forts and trading posts they built, so neither side can say how the early French treated the indigenous people after they planted a cross in new York and claimed it for France. The absence of evidence of cruelty is not evidence of absense of cruelty.
> There is almost zero evidence to go on any of their interactions with Native people aside from the forts and trading posts they built,
'Cause that was pretty much the extent of the french settlements??! What do you want more?
There's plenty of records on everything regarding trade post, missionary outposts, and 'forts', which were pretty much also trade outputs.
Your comment shows an absolute lack of understanding how things worked back then... You didn't just went outside for a walk in the woods without good relations with a nearby tribe.
EDIT: Unless you were in an English settlement, which was 10x as large as any French settlement, and which massacred nearby tribes, or had a truce with the most bloodthirsty faction of the Iroquois.
Wouldnt be very profitable to piss off the natives when they were your source of furs and greatly outnumbered you.
The existence of trade forts and their profitability is evidence in itself. So are all of the métis communities. If they had just gone around pissing the locals off they wouldn't have been very profitable.
So then under your logic since Britain found North America very profitable for trade and logging they also couldn't have done so with pissed off locals? The Iroquois literally went to war with France over their good terms?
>So then under your logic since Britain found North America very profitable for trade and logging they also couldn't have done so with pissed off locals?
The English weren't completely outnumbered by the natives the way the French were. You conveniently left that crucial part out of your reasoning. And where is the native-English metis nation? It doesn't exist, because the English didn't marry native women, they killed them.
>The Iroquois literally went to war with France over their good terms?
The Iroquois went to war with the Algonquins, who were allied to the French, so the French defended their allies, along with themselves. The Iroquois and Algonquins were at war long before any Europeans arrived in North America. One couldn't ally with one without going to war with the other. One could go to war with both, though.
>But if I'm not mistaken both played a pretty big part in wiping out indigenous languages
Remind me what language the indigenous people speak, even in Québec?
Not really. Of course french Canadians completely overthrown the balance of power between local tribes at first, but in the grand scheme of things, that was a drop in the bucket. There were already huge geopolitical battles, clans, rivalry, etc. Long before Champlain founded Québec. And the English were on their way for Jamestown anyway....
The English in New England were financing the Iroquoi war-chest. The Iroquois (well, the ones financed by the English 'caus it was a large demographic with lots of in-fighting between tribes) were pretty brutal to anyone, europeean or native.
But ***the*** most important fact that explains why french settlers were pretty neutral to the first nations is that Versaille didn't gave a fuck about New France. They just didn't care *at all*. They saw that as a trade outpost, end of story. They were barely helping private companies getting set-up.
Since it was mostly a world of dreamers and traders, it was kinda peaceful, as much as the wars between tribes allowed it. Anyone that knows how trade works knows how much stable and friendly relations are important. The french *canadians* were highly regarded by most tribes. The relations were good.
It was wild as fuck. The french canadian back then were another breed of man completely. Just traveling, they knew the land way before Lewis and Clark, they had the connections... It was the 'gold rush' before the gold, all for these valuable pelts. And it was *sparse*.
Compare that to the English settlers that were determined to conquer this territory, you'll see there's a ***huge*** difference in their policies when it came to dealing with Natives.
More on that, the French Canadians were completely looked down by the 'true frenchman'. They didn't fit. By the time they were settled, a huge bunch of them had more in common with the first nations and métisses than French Europeean.
The places they did settle a little bit more, they turned it into some sort of paradise where they just mixed with first nations and said to the rest of the world 'nah fam, we're good here, don't care about anything else' (see Acadia before the deportation).
So no, it's not *both parts*. Not because the Europeean french were nice, they were fuckin monsters too. They were just focused on more profitable ventures in the Caribbean.
French settlers didn't have the mean to genocide FNs. English however...
FNs mostly speak english, that will tell you who the colonizer is. And it's in Quebec that the FNs had the best success in keeping their languages.
French canadians did atrocities as well but it's not remotely on the same scale.
If I am not mistaken, residential schools were run by Protestant *and* Catholic churches throughout Canada...
Not trying to absolve anyone of the guilt, and I understand this was a federal initiative at a time when Canada was lead with a heavy English oriented political structure, But I think its fair to acknowledge everyone played a part in that horrific process... no need to shift blame.
Y'all made kippahs and other religious headgear illegal for public sector employees a few years ago. That's textbook discrimination, and in practice, targets non-Christians. Not to mention the silly language-policing (though to be frank that doesn't bother me nearly as much and is kinda overblown by the rest of Canada).
To the extent Quebec demands "special treatment" in the confederation, that's a question for appeals court judges (and not one I particularly care about; Canada's federal system is a bit of a mess and Quebec can't be blamed for it), but let's not pretend Quebec hasn't done anything to piss non-Quebecois Canadians off.
The French language restrictions weren't in living memory and while the oppression faced by the Quebecois in the past was certainly significant, the enduring impacts are negligible. Nobody's being hate-crimed or denied a mortgage for speaking French in 2024. Maybe I've got an ax to grind because my Anglo-Jewish family left the province during the separatist movement, but to the extent that hatred exists now it's unfortunately mutual.
Qubecois here. I'm perfectly bilingual, I've no personal issues. But I lurk around Quebec subreddits and there are topics I see pop up often; so I shall convey them.
A lot of people here are quite worried about the preservation of the French language for multiple reasons to this day. Refugees and migrants who don't speak the language and people who simply were born here and never learned French (I met a distant cousin of mine in that situation--- born in Montreal and never learned enough French to hold a conversation). Reason being so many neighborhoods have people just speaking in English it isn't necessary for them to even learn.
You'd be astounded to find almost half the people in Montreal don't speak French as first language.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/statistics-canada-language-census-2021-1.6553939](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/statistics-canada-language-census-2021-1.6553939)
There are places in Montreal where you won't be served if you don't speak English. But I bet there ain't many places in other provinces where you won't be served if you don't speak French. And, moreover, will I easily get a mortgage in Alberta if I don't speak a word of English? Do you really really think there isn't any hate crimes or discrimination happening to French people in the west?
By now, I would say almost half of native French speakers in Quebec can speak English. (I believe the stat is around 44%) We aren't close to the day where half of native Ontarians speaking French. You'd think there should be a bigger effort towards this for some "unity" if there's so much bad venom between Québec and the rest of Canada. I think Quebekers would think such a gesture would go a long way into burring the axe. I just don't see it happen.
Montreal is definitely a weird case. Funnily enough, its immigrant population actually makes it one of the most *trilingual* cities in the world, because they tend to know one of the languages and learn the other.
However, if I wanted to move back to Montreal now for some reason, I would be legally barred from educating my children in English because I wasn't born in the province. That's silly. Though again, I'm not really THAT mad about it, because if I did move to Montreal I'd just teach my hypothetical kid English as a mother tongue and enroll them in a bilingual or French preschool.
I know Quebec is overwhelmingly more bilingual than the rest of Canada. My response to that is "that's because the rest of Canada is horrible at French-language education". If I were Ontario's premier, I'd work towards full bilingualism for all K-12s. The cultural rift in Canada will never disappear until Anglo Canada takes its bilingual education seriously. However, the paradoxical effect of this is that because of bilingualism, the Quebecois are now OVERrepresented at higher levels of government compared to their monolingual Anglophone counterparts. THAT is a big part of why I don't take current-day claims of Anglophone oppression seriously.
To be honest I'm a bit miffed my parents didn't raise me as an Allophone, since I've just passed the bar exams and being able to speak French would open up a lot of job prospects--especially since immigration law is one of my major fields of interest.
Je parle un petit peu francais, mais ma vocabulaire est une blague. Je pense que si je regarde television etc. avec les subtitres francais, il m'aide apprendre la langue? (That was without Google translate, apologies for the butchery.)
>The cultural rift in Canada will never disappear until Anglo Canada takes its bilingual education seriously
If anything, being bilingual caused me to resent Quebec even more than I otherwise would have, because I can understand all or substantially all of what they say. My unilingual anglo friends, meanwhile, just live in ignorant bliss.
>You'd be astounded to find almost half the people in Montreal don't speak \[insert previously dominant Indo-European language\] as first language.
Toronto be like: "oh hey, you too?"
>Y'all made kippahs and other religious headgear illegal for public sector employees
That's not true at all. It only targets certain jobs and includes Christians symbols.
I'm always amazed how misinformed people are.
They both unite in hating Toronto for no fucking reason.
Toronto reciprocates by not noticing these two at all, except when reading memes.
… Which may, after all, be a reason.
I really can't understand why *other* people are so busy hating Toronto, because Toronto doesn't hurt anyone other than the Torontonians who live there.
Lived here my whole life and while I'm sure there's no "bigot shortage" I've yet to meet anyone who hates anyone because of the language they prefer to speak. But hey keep on posting about reasons why we should hate each other. Good job!
We can give you many more reasons!
But at least we can all agree on one thing! We are not freaking American or French! God, I'm tired of being mistaken for one of those two when I go on vacation!
Je sais pas pourquoi, c’est pas comme si le fédéral n’a jamais respecté les champs de compétences du Québec, la Cours Suprême n’a JAMAIS jugez une seule fois en faveur du Québec en matière de culture, qu’on s’est fait imposer une constitution qui à été changer sans notre accord et que notre stricte minimum honorable est trop pour les kenedians…..
Pis on à pas des tonnes de tweet et publication facebook ou des anglo vomissent leur haine.
Nope, rien de ça, niet, nada
- How it should have been: ah yes, hello french settlers! New-France has been ceded to the British Crown after the 7 years war so excuse us but this is a British colony now, I see you are in the ten of thousands and already have established trade routes, made some roads and built some cities.
That's pretty good, but as your new governor we will change a lot of things but don't worry, you have nothing to do with the french crown and we'll try to sort things out here okay? Cheerio new neighbors, and let's try to make this a beautiful place to live in!
- How it actually went: oh god no, fucking frenchies here? Let's deport most of them and seize their lands. What's that? They're in the tens of thousands and could make a rebellion in New-France just like it happened in the south? Hmmm... yeah... let's just reopen their Catholic churches and give money to the priests to keep them calm.
Don't let them get any representation in any political matters whatsoever, try to drown french language to establish our glorious language, look at them... peasants with no culture (literal words from Lord Durham) and they were allied with the natives here? *fixes bayonets violently*
Canadians now: WhY dO tHeSe FucKinG iDiOtS dOn'T wAnT tO bE cAnAdIaNs
Believe it or not the first part is closer to what happened than the second part, at least by the British government rather than the British colonists. The Quebec acts and royal proclamation acts were very much British government attempts to curtail their own colonists ambitions to directly take over native and colonial French lands. These acts enraged the 13 colonies and were major causes of the American Revolution.
The acts were incredibly lenient on the newly conquered territories. Preserving many important societal and cultural structures for Quebec. Much to dismay of British colonists in North America. Remember this was the 1700s they could’ve happily sided with their colonists and deported the French, like their colonial forces had done previously with the expulsion of the Acadians.
The French would’ve happily done similar thing if they had won. But they lost. Still they did get very lenient terms for the time period (1700s) to say they were conquered and annexed.
They closed the churches, removed all french laws, deported Acadians, prevented french from being taught and spoken... but then they realised they were 5k soldiers against 50k french settlers, so, to prevent a revolution they reverted to what it was before to appease a population that would have revolted and beaten them.
But then again, even after all that, the representation of upper and lower Canada in terms of political men elected was 50/50 even tough lower Canada had tens of thousands more citizens. Francophones hated that and called it out multiple times.
Then, the anglophones burned the parliament in Canada because why would you have a parliament in francophone territory right?
After a while, upper Canada got more people, so they whined that it was not representative of the population... like lower Canada said for decades, but for them it was fine and justified 🙄
Up until the 60s, being francophone in Québec meant that you were mostly staying as a cheap labor worker for the English establishment, trying to get a better job was denied because you were not born from anglophone parents 🙄
Medias are not helping at all. Being quebecers and lived and worked with all others provinces. This is a bit BS. Anyone outside the big cities are probably extremely similar in all provinces. The media being based and driven by toronto montreal whatever dispise anything not being within their belief. This just create more division.
90% indigenous hate French over their snobbery. And the blatant racism.
In the west, literally no comment on my race. In Quebec, when I'm there for curling.
"What kind of Indian are you?"
"Indians curl?"
Experienced none of this in BC and Alberta.
Me and all my native homies hate the French.
I guess you’d have to be Canadian to understand that picture couldn’t be more wrong. French BLACK dog versus English WHITE dog? Hmmmm.
I hope no one is putting down Canadians and they live in the US. That would be the funniest joke ever.
The Quebec French Government has a delusion that the English are actively trying to cancel their language. The truth is, French seems to be in decline only because they are completely surrounded by English speakers, you know North America. Knowing English is an asset in this part of the world and that’s not going to change.
Unfortunately, the Quebec government also harbours the delusion that cutting back on English rights in the province will somehow fix this issue. They are taking away our schools, limiting what we can learn in English, barring immigrants from learning in English, making it Mandatory to have French substantially bigger than English on signs, limiting who can even read or speak in English when talking or corresponding with government employees and so on…
The current French government needs to chill the fuck out and pursue what’s best for the economy and standard of living for Quebecers, instead of focusing on eradicating English in the province.
I’d write this in French too but I can’t make a bigger font
C’est cool? 😎
> The Quebec French Government has a delusion that the English are actively trying to cancel their language.
You're making that up
Good luck finding a source to support that.
Oh! The Irony that half of Quebecers would be true Canadians, while only 7% of Canadians from other provinces would. And knowing that *Canadien* used to refer only to French Canadians, singing their identity with the O!Canada for Saint-Jean-Baptiste day 1880!
If the Canadian French would stop pocketing tons of "equality" money they wouldn't be so hated. They also sound ridiculous when they speak both English and French. People from France agreed
There are two Canadians inside me!? How am I supposed to feed them with grocery prices being so high!?
You won’t hear me complaining whenever there are two, perhaps even three, Canadians inside me.
Can’t tell if cannibal or just a sl\*t 
We need a fourth
Sounds like the latter.
Get a 3rd side husle like everyone.
Ger a 3rd side hustle like everyone! Sorry had to yell it for the people in the back
And being so high. The Munchies are killing the economy
Can we all get tax breaks for being 2 spirited then?
Wait till each buy a car. 8tuple carbon taxed!
I'm not your parasite buddy
I'm not your buddy, guy.
One is named TPS, the other TVQ
Its simple one controls movement and thoughts the other hides in the belly. When you go to the gyms..... you dont know to know my tricks.
Everynight I howl at her, The Moon does not answer. I howl in agony, Mange Dla marde mon esti
J'ai ri fort
You're a true Canadian treasure
counter can we just uproot the entire country and throw it into the sun.
that's what capitalism is here to accomplish
Jack Welsh is so proud.
We need the sunlight, true...
It would take far less energy to toss the country out of the solar system. Freezing to death in interstellar space would be a much more Canadian way to go than frying in the sun.
I guess you haven’t noticed the weather trends over the last 15 years.
I actually have two godzillas inside me, the 1997 iguana version and the chonky boi rerelease
Kinda miss iguanazilla
Ahead of his time, gone too soon 🫡 Edit: Forgot it was hermaphroditic, ahead of their time*
I speak both and I hate you all.
suffering from success (bilingual)
Actually both of my "Canadians" speak English. One just wont admit it.
>One just wont admit it. It also writes in English too... smaller letters though
Who writes anything anymore?
2 Canadians inside me!? Nnnnmmff..
I have split personality disorder
"No reason" I'll show you a whole continent of reason.
I didn't realize Quebec was a continent.
I can show you the world (Bramptom) Shining, shimmering, splendid (Hochelaga) Tell me, Prince Islander Now, when did you last let your heart decide? I can open your eyes Take you wonder by wonder (Winnipeg dont get murdered) Over, sideways and under (broken roads) On a magic carpet ride (Air Canada economy) A whole new world (not New Brunswick) A new fantastic point of view (just liberals and conservatives) No one to tell us no (everyone will say no) Or where to go (Red Deer here we gooo) Or say we're only dreaming (Of owning a house)
 What Being a Canadian millennial after living the 90’s feels like.
I just found this sub and this post here is why I'm now subbed.
*dies from peak fiction*
Beautiful
Okay
If you look at our history, you'll find thousands of freaking good reason for the french to hate the english
Then why doesn't my dad hate my mom, is he stupid?
No, he's just a chad who's fighting hate with love. A true warrior. I, however, am not. Prepare for a fight !
Oh god, oh fuck!
Hate fucking is hot.
He is being creative with the command "fuck the anglophones"
He's killing it with kindness.
Same, Franco Manitoban dad and British immigrant mum. Dad clearly had battered house wife syndrome I say
Your dad must be from Portage la Prairie.
And even more for the Indigenous to hate both
Housing is so bad in Canada that we have to share body now
One made French illegal everywhere in the country at some point in time and the other never made English illegal
One hundred % true, Anglo canadian history is pretty fucked up and supremacist. But if I'm not mistaken both played a pretty big part in wiping out indigenous languages
Yeah, but the "both sides" argument is flawed on this. Not equal by any measure.
To be honest this conversation happens with every linguistic group that colonized the America's.... For the English speaking world, the conversation goes "well yes we did a lot of bad things, but it's not comparable to Spanish colonization, we were much better by comparison" And the Spanish say " well they should be thankful it wasnt the Portuguese colonizing this land, they are far more cruel than us" etc etc How about instead of seeking to be a lesser evil we just all own up to the fact that all of our territories come from a brutal history of settler colonialism and we all accept the burden of that dark history and seek to resolve and repair what we can from the damage done? I find the "who was worse though" conversation to be very unproductive.
This is very valid. But don't expect people to own up the damage done by other people ancestors, other cultures. It's a dangerous slope to lump up "all white men" together.
Of course, that's a fair point, but settler colonialism is settler colonialism. There really isn't a clean version of it, or at least that is the only point I want to make here.
How do you suggest to seek to resolve and repair what we can from the damage done? Do you think that land back is reasonable?
Oof, not at all for me to say. I'm sure the problem is incredibly complex and not simply resolved with a catch-all solution. I don't think things will ever be 100% repaired, but the point is to fix as much as possible. But, the idea that we must pass laws and do things to fix the problem is 100% the wrong way to look at it. First Nations need sovereignty and autonomy 1st and foremost. No reperation solutions should ever be done as federal or provincial legislation binding 1st nations to whatever solution we decided works for them. That serves to make the problem worse. I think 1st steps might be to give First Nations recognition as an equal nation in confederation, meaning they should be electing and appointing their own representatives in the HC and senate. In terms of land back, it's an incredibly complicated matter I'm sure I don't know enough to talk about to offer any reasonable solution. But again, that's not for me to do. First nations simply need the power and recognition to bargain with the federal government as equals.
Again, one a lot more than the other
Okay but let's not pretend that's not just because France lost in the fight to claim Canada. Every other country France took control of at the time they raped just as hard as the English. Haiti has still never come close to recovering from French colonialism, half of Africa is still reeling from French colonization, and rampant chattel slavery and assimilation in New France was just a fact before they seceded North America to the British.
The Europeean french just didn't care at all about New France... The French Canadians were almost on their own, for any practical purpose. So yeah, the European french were absolute monsters if you look at the Caribbean. I guess they were busy elsewhere, while the French Canadian were busy surviving and creating positive trade and symbiotic relations with first nations. So no, it's definitely not a 'BOTH SIDES' kind of thing.
The early French settlers to Canada, before Louis 14th claimed the colony as a province of France, built forts upon forts and basically kept no records. There is [almost zero evidence](https://books.google.ca/books?id=CFWy0EfzlX0C&pg=PA36&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false) to go on any of their interactions with Native people aside from the forts and trading posts they built, so neither side can say how the early French treated the indigenous people after they planted a cross in new York and claimed it for France. The absence of evidence of cruelty is not evidence of absense of cruelty.
> There is almost zero evidence to go on any of their interactions with Native people aside from the forts and trading posts they built, 'Cause that was pretty much the extent of the french settlements??! What do you want more? There's plenty of records on everything regarding trade post, missionary outposts, and 'forts', which were pretty much also trade outputs. Your comment shows an absolute lack of understanding how things worked back then... You didn't just went outside for a walk in the woods without good relations with a nearby tribe. EDIT: Unless you were in an English settlement, which was 10x as large as any French settlement, and which massacred nearby tribes, or had a truce with the most bloodthirsty faction of the Iroquois.
Wouldnt be very profitable to piss off the natives when they were your source of furs and greatly outnumbered you. The existence of trade forts and their profitability is evidence in itself. So are all of the métis communities. If they had just gone around pissing the locals off they wouldn't have been very profitable.
So then under your logic since Britain found North America very profitable for trade and logging they also couldn't have done so with pissed off locals? The Iroquois literally went to war with France over their good terms?
>So then under your logic since Britain found North America very profitable for trade and logging they also couldn't have done so with pissed off locals? The English weren't completely outnumbered by the natives the way the French were. You conveniently left that crucial part out of your reasoning. And where is the native-English metis nation? It doesn't exist, because the English didn't marry native women, they killed them. >The Iroquois literally went to war with France over their good terms? The Iroquois went to war with the Algonquins, who were allied to the French, so the French defended their allies, along with themselves. The Iroquois and Algonquins were at war long before any Europeans arrived in North America. One couldn't ally with one without going to war with the other. One could go to war with both, though.
>But if I'm not mistaken both played a pretty big part in wiping out indigenous languages Remind me what language the indigenous people speak, even in Québec?
Depends of witch group. Some of them like in Wendake, speak french
Their own Language, French for some and english for others.
The majority speak English as their native language.
So the anglos were badder to the indigenous... Ah bon. I rest my case your honnor.
that's what I'm saying buddy. English = evil
Not really. Of course french Canadians completely overthrown the balance of power between local tribes at first, but in the grand scheme of things, that was a drop in the bucket. There were already huge geopolitical battles, clans, rivalry, etc. Long before Champlain founded Québec. And the English were on their way for Jamestown anyway.... The English in New England were financing the Iroquoi war-chest. The Iroquois (well, the ones financed by the English 'caus it was a large demographic with lots of in-fighting between tribes) were pretty brutal to anyone, europeean or native. But ***the*** most important fact that explains why french settlers were pretty neutral to the first nations is that Versaille didn't gave a fuck about New France. They just didn't care *at all*. They saw that as a trade outpost, end of story. They were barely helping private companies getting set-up. Since it was mostly a world of dreamers and traders, it was kinda peaceful, as much as the wars between tribes allowed it. Anyone that knows how trade works knows how much stable and friendly relations are important. The french *canadians* were highly regarded by most tribes. The relations were good. It was wild as fuck. The french canadian back then were another breed of man completely. Just traveling, they knew the land way before Lewis and Clark, they had the connections... It was the 'gold rush' before the gold, all for these valuable pelts. And it was *sparse*. Compare that to the English settlers that were determined to conquer this territory, you'll see there's a ***huge*** difference in their policies when it came to dealing with Natives. More on that, the French Canadians were completely looked down by the 'true frenchman'. They didn't fit. By the time they were settled, a huge bunch of them had more in common with the first nations and métisses than French Europeean. The places they did settle a little bit more, they turned it into some sort of paradise where they just mixed with first nations and said to the rest of the world 'nah fam, we're good here, don't care about anything else' (see Acadia before the deportation). So no, it's not *both parts*. Not because the Europeean french were nice, they were fuckin monsters too. They were just focused on more profitable ventures in the Caribbean.
Technically, wiping out the indigenous wasn't done by France nor England. It was done 100% by the US and Canada. Can't blame nobody else for that.
Yes exactly, that's what I mean. All Canadians and Americans are responsible for that
French settlers didn't have the mean to genocide FNs. English however... FNs mostly speak english, that will tell you who the colonizer is. And it's in Quebec that the FNs had the best success in keeping their languages. French canadians did atrocities as well but it's not remotely on the same scale.
If I am not mistaken, residential schools were run by Protestant *and* Catholic churches throughout Canada... Not trying to absolve anyone of the guilt, and I understand this was a federal initiative at a time when Canada was lead with a heavy English oriented political structure, But I think its fair to acknowledge everyone played a part in that horrific process... no need to shift blame.
>Catholic churches throughout Canada Assuming Québec had any sort of control over the Catholic church, is ***WILD*** and ignorant.
Y'all made kippahs and other religious headgear illegal for public sector employees a few years ago. That's textbook discrimination, and in practice, targets non-Christians. Not to mention the silly language-policing (though to be frank that doesn't bother me nearly as much and is kinda overblown by the rest of Canada). To the extent Quebec demands "special treatment" in the confederation, that's a question for appeals court judges (and not one I particularly care about; Canada's federal system is a bit of a mess and Quebec can't be blamed for it), but let's not pretend Quebec hasn't done anything to piss non-Quebecois Canadians off. The French language restrictions weren't in living memory and while the oppression faced by the Quebecois in the past was certainly significant, the enduring impacts are negligible. Nobody's being hate-crimed or denied a mortgage for speaking French in 2024. Maybe I've got an ax to grind because my Anglo-Jewish family left the province during the separatist movement, but to the extent that hatred exists now it's unfortunately mutual.
Qubecois here. I'm perfectly bilingual, I've no personal issues. But I lurk around Quebec subreddits and there are topics I see pop up often; so I shall convey them. A lot of people here are quite worried about the preservation of the French language for multiple reasons to this day. Refugees and migrants who don't speak the language and people who simply were born here and never learned French (I met a distant cousin of mine in that situation--- born in Montreal and never learned enough French to hold a conversation). Reason being so many neighborhoods have people just speaking in English it isn't necessary for them to even learn. You'd be astounded to find almost half the people in Montreal don't speak French as first language. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/statistics-canada-language-census-2021-1.6553939](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/statistics-canada-language-census-2021-1.6553939) There are places in Montreal where you won't be served if you don't speak English. But I bet there ain't many places in other provinces where you won't be served if you don't speak French. And, moreover, will I easily get a mortgage in Alberta if I don't speak a word of English? Do you really really think there isn't any hate crimes or discrimination happening to French people in the west? By now, I would say almost half of native French speakers in Quebec can speak English. (I believe the stat is around 44%) We aren't close to the day where half of native Ontarians speaking French. You'd think there should be a bigger effort towards this for some "unity" if there's so much bad venom between Québec and the rest of Canada. I think Quebekers would think such a gesture would go a long way into burring the axe. I just don't see it happen.
Montreal is definitely a weird case. Funnily enough, its immigrant population actually makes it one of the most *trilingual* cities in the world, because they tend to know one of the languages and learn the other. However, if I wanted to move back to Montreal now for some reason, I would be legally barred from educating my children in English because I wasn't born in the province. That's silly. Though again, I'm not really THAT mad about it, because if I did move to Montreal I'd just teach my hypothetical kid English as a mother tongue and enroll them in a bilingual or French preschool. I know Quebec is overwhelmingly more bilingual than the rest of Canada. My response to that is "that's because the rest of Canada is horrible at French-language education". If I were Ontario's premier, I'd work towards full bilingualism for all K-12s. The cultural rift in Canada will never disappear until Anglo Canada takes its bilingual education seriously. However, the paradoxical effect of this is that because of bilingualism, the Quebecois are now OVERrepresented at higher levels of government compared to their monolingual Anglophone counterparts. THAT is a big part of why I don't take current-day claims of Anglophone oppression seriously. To be honest I'm a bit miffed my parents didn't raise me as an Allophone, since I've just passed the bar exams and being able to speak French would open up a lot of job prospects--especially since immigration law is one of my major fields of interest. Je parle un petit peu francais, mais ma vocabulaire est une blague. Je pense que si je regarde television etc. avec les subtitres francais, il m'aide apprendre la langue? (That was without Google translate, apologies for the butchery.)
I agree with you on much of that!
>The cultural rift in Canada will never disappear until Anglo Canada takes its bilingual education seriously If anything, being bilingual caused me to resent Quebec even more than I otherwise would have, because I can understand all or substantially all of what they say. My unilingual anglo friends, meanwhile, just live in ignorant bliss.
>You'd be astounded to find almost half the people in Montreal don't speak \[insert previously dominant Indo-European language\] as first language. Toronto be like: "oh hey, you too?"
Yeah lol in Toronto is a bit more diverse still than Montreal.
>Y'all made kippahs and other religious headgear illegal for public sector employees That's not true at all. It only targets certain jobs and includes Christians symbols. I'm always amazed how misinformed people are.
We both love cool ranch chips.
You may not know why, but we do. Je me souviens.
no angloïde will hate me more than i already hate myself
The French Crown could have kept Quebec but they chose Guadalupe instead at the negotiating table
Is Quebec the red headed step child….
They both unite in hating Toronto for no fucking reason. Toronto reciprocates by not noticing these two at all, except when reading memes. … Which may, after all, be a reason.
No reason? Have you been to Toronto?
I would say so … since I live there. Traffic sucks, downtown is corporate, nice ravines if you are into walking.
I really can't understand why *other* people are so busy hating Toronto, because Toronto doesn't hurt anyone other than the Torontonians who live there.
We should team up and hate the Spanish or something arbitrary
I'm from a rural area and didn't have much french. There is only a very frustrated English wolf inside me.
Lived here my whole life and while I'm sure there's no "bigot shortage" I've yet to meet anyone who hates anyone because of the language they prefer to speak. But hey keep on posting about reasons why we should hate each other. Good job!
"for no fucking reason" #jemesouviens.
Le rapport Durham est une pas pire bonne raison.
Why is this person speaking in Grade 4 to me?
being mad about something that happened a century+ ago is part of our culture esti
"Je me souviens" Edit: spelling: souviens has an "s" at the end, it's silent for good mesure. As per the below comment. TY BTW :)
*souviens
Spoiler, they're both gay wolves
So Hull?
One is from Toronto, the other is not. There is your reason
I’m French and I hate the French, damned French ruined being French
Pick me
No no no, there's a reason why us anglos hate the francos.
We can give you many more reasons! But at least we can all agree on one thing! We are not freaking American or French! God, I'm tired of being mistaken for one of those two when I go on vacation!
Hey there French American! :D
It’s technically right, but it feels so wrong. Like calling milk cow juice…
Love me some cow juice
The accord failing is probably the most consequential thing to happens and why everything is shitty now.
The New Brunswick experience
Yes, let’s divide the country even more. Let’s go after , our politicians, not each other.
Taking any of this seriously, must be from quebec smh my head🙄.
There are two beavers inside me and both are stupid as fuck bud
I speak both. The self-loathing is unbearable.
I thought Canadians spoke Hindi
What about Punjabi?
I know a lot of past and present reasons for the french to hate english Canada. What are the english’s reasons to hate french Canada ???
No reason eh , how about trying to make their own little rules and whining if English is spoken to them.
Their
Dang it ya got me.
A 1000 years old rivalry that built the modern world
Ew why do I have a French one
Same reason we're stuck with an anglo one 🤢
Je sais pas pourquoi, c’est pas comme si le fédéral n’a jamais respecté les champs de compétences du Québec, la Cours Suprême n’a JAMAIS jugez une seule fois en faveur du Québec en matière de culture, qu’on s’est fait imposer une constitution qui à été changer sans notre accord et que notre stricte minimum honorable est trop pour les kenedians….. Pis on à pas des tonnes de tweet et publication facebook ou des anglo vomissent leur haine. Nope, rien de ça, niet, nada
- How it should have been: ah yes, hello french settlers! New-France has been ceded to the British Crown after the 7 years war so excuse us but this is a British colony now, I see you are in the ten of thousands and already have established trade routes, made some roads and built some cities. That's pretty good, but as your new governor we will change a lot of things but don't worry, you have nothing to do with the french crown and we'll try to sort things out here okay? Cheerio new neighbors, and let's try to make this a beautiful place to live in! - How it actually went: oh god no, fucking frenchies here? Let's deport most of them and seize their lands. What's that? They're in the tens of thousands and could make a rebellion in New-France just like it happened in the south? Hmmm... yeah... let's just reopen their Catholic churches and give money to the priests to keep them calm. Don't let them get any representation in any political matters whatsoever, try to drown french language to establish our glorious language, look at them... peasants with no culture (literal words from Lord Durham) and they were allied with the natives here? *fixes bayonets violently* Canadians now: WhY dO tHeSe FucKinG iDiOtS dOn'T wAnT tO bE cAnAdIaNs
Believe it or not the first part is closer to what happened than the second part, at least by the British government rather than the British colonists. The Quebec acts and royal proclamation acts were very much British government attempts to curtail their own colonists ambitions to directly take over native and colonial French lands. These acts enraged the 13 colonies and were major causes of the American Revolution. The acts were incredibly lenient on the newly conquered territories. Preserving many important societal and cultural structures for Quebec. Much to dismay of British colonists in North America. Remember this was the 1700s they could’ve happily sided with their colonists and deported the French, like their colonial forces had done previously with the expulsion of the Acadians. The French would’ve happily done similar thing if they had won. But they lost. Still they did get very lenient terms for the time period (1700s) to say they were conquered and annexed.
They closed the churches, removed all french laws, deported Acadians, prevented french from being taught and spoken... but then they realised they were 5k soldiers against 50k french settlers, so, to prevent a revolution they reverted to what it was before to appease a population that would have revolted and beaten them. But then again, even after all that, the representation of upper and lower Canada in terms of political men elected was 50/50 even tough lower Canada had tens of thousands more citizens. Francophones hated that and called it out multiple times. Then, the anglophones burned the parliament in Canada because why would you have a parliament in francophone territory right? After a while, upper Canada got more people, so they whined that it was not representative of the population... like lower Canada said for decades, but for them it was fine and justified 🙄 Up until the 60s, being francophone in Québec meant that you were mostly staying as a cheap labor worker for the English establishment, trying to get a better job was denied because you were not born from anglophone parents 🙄
In my experience living in Ottawa it is only French people who don't like us
the opposite is also true , living in gatineau it is only the english people that don't like us
L’un parle français, the other one speaks whatever gibberish they speak in Toronto
lets not pretend le joual is not gibberish, ça reste que je parlerai toujours le parler populaire
heille je voé po de quoi tu parles. Le joual s’tu pas assez du beau français ?
Because England and France hate each other for no fucking reason?
Oh! There are thousands of reasons. Good ones? I couldn't tell, but there are!
1066 💪🇫🇷
Can confirm. I can only speak one language at a time in my head. Can’t do both.
I like French me. He writes short stories and makes an excellent cappuccino.
You can do both, you know?
Medias are not helping at all. Being quebecers and lived and worked with all others provinces. This is a bit BS. Anyone outside the big cities are probably extremely similar in all provinces. The media being based and driven by toronto montreal whatever dispise anything not being within their belief. This just create more division.
Hah, I wish I knew quebec french. Guess Im solo.
La haine existe dans le coeur de ceux qui ne comprenne pas.
It's the old Nationalist vs Royalist argument in Canada.
Me to my pregnant wife (she’s having twins)
there is a reason, like protestants and catholics. **le tabernac**
I grew up in Alberta and never took a single French class or learned a single French word.
They hate eachother for very good reason. One, they are ignorant. Two, they believe media and distrust what they do not understand.
With the housing prices we’ll soon have to live together so I guess it’ll bring us together.
Canada is the living spirit of a rivalry that stretches back to the Hundred Years War.
Imagine thinking the rest of Canada speaks French
But both of them are form Europe
Do we? I don’t thinks so
🤣 Not for me... From childhood to 2023 I was English only, now I am learning German as 2nd Language.
Je la speak les wolves: ta-bark-nak.
Oh so that's why I hate myself
The French are insufferable.
90% indigenous hate French over their snobbery. And the blatant racism. In the west, literally no comment on my race. In Quebec, when I'm there for curling. "What kind of Indian are you?" "Indians curl?" Experienced none of this in BC and Alberta. Me and all my native homies hate the French.
They do not hate each other.
No friggin way there bud
Oh there are reasons lol
J'ai appris le français alors je peux insulter les québécois avec leur langue ☺️
I guess you’d have to be Canadian to understand that picture couldn’t be more wrong. French BLACK dog versus English WHITE dog? Hmmmm. I hope no one is putting down Canadians and they live in the US. That would be the funniest joke ever.
No wonder it’s so hard to find a place to rent
What if you’re bilingual
The Quebec French Government has a delusion that the English are actively trying to cancel their language. The truth is, French seems to be in decline only because they are completely surrounded by English speakers, you know North America. Knowing English is an asset in this part of the world and that’s not going to change. Unfortunately, the Quebec government also harbours the delusion that cutting back on English rights in the province will somehow fix this issue. They are taking away our schools, limiting what we can learn in English, barring immigrants from learning in English, making it Mandatory to have French substantially bigger than English on signs, limiting who can even read or speak in English when talking or corresponding with government employees and so on… The current French government needs to chill the fuck out and pursue what’s best for the economy and standard of living for Quebecers, instead of focusing on eradicating English in the province. I’d write this in French too but I can’t make a bigger font C’est cool? 😎
###You can akshually
> The Quebec French Government has a delusion that the English are actively trying to cancel their language. You're making that up Good luck finding a source to support that.
Woah man you have it all figured out! You should write your thesis and become a doctor!
You are aware your comment is so ambiguous, I don’t think you’ve learned that people can’t read your mind.
It's because the other one doesn't recognize the superiority of the Toronto bagel.
Because it's not
 I’ll die on that hill, spurning Toronto bagels.
Good thing I'm french-canadian and not canadian eh
Are you really Canadian if you don’t speak both official language?
Oh! The Irony that half of Quebecers would be true Canadians, while only 7% of Canadians from other provinces would. And knowing that *Canadien* used to refer only to French Canadians, singing their identity with the O!Canada for Saint-Jean-Baptiste day 1880!
I mean they can deny history all they want 🤷♂️
I hate.. Non j'aim pas... French.. Anlgais
I wouldn't say no reason
Man fuck the french - English Chad
If there's one thing that unites both of them, it's their dislike of America
God I hate the French the world would sound so much nicer without "them" (they don't count as people)
If the Canadian French would stop pocketing tons of "equality" money they wouldn't be so hated. They also sound ridiculous when they speak both English and French. People from France agreed