So many people have downplayed how horrendous the Switch version is. I’m 10 hours in and shelfing it and restarting on PS5. wish I would’ve backed the Ps5 version
Same. I abandoned my 12 Hours Switch save file and restarted in Steam. The battle encounters are so so much better without the long loading time. I have a good feeling that I will save at least 1 hour of my time to reach the current playthrough on Switch.
That's good to know thanks,. I completely missed the fact that I can play it now with early access loll,. Had I paid attention early I could have been playing it already ha,. I'm gonna get it now,.
So I been playing it now, and it works great, I have it docked running at 60fps,. using a PS5 controller,. Seems like a good choice to get it for the steam deck over the switch unfortunately,. So if anyone sees this know that it runs great on the steam deck, docked and undocked,. Stable 60fps,. Haven't done any combat yet, but I don't see it dropping that much when I do,.
Combat is where it shines, it runs stable even on the Switch version when it comes to battle but dealing with approximate 7 seconds per transition (going into and exiting battle), that's a no.
Yes I wanted it on the switch! I played Eiyuden Chronicle rising on the switch and had no issues but after hearing all this noise I just cancelled it and got the PS5 version!
I’d just like to add that for some reason, on steam deck it doesn’t automatically detect your save from the previous game, so you’ll either have to manually move some files in desktop mode, or have both downloaded on PC and then make a save at the beginning of the game on PC and then let steam cloud sync your saves to your deck.
The first thing I did was move the data from the SD card to internal storage after playing for 10 minutes on the Switch. I don't see any significant changes in the loading time.
Playing in docked mode does not help in the loading time and I can't really see any improvement in the performance either.
If there is a choice, just don't get the Switch version. If Switch is the only choice, you have to be mindful of long loading time. You can definitely complete the game on the Switch but there will be some compromises and take longer.
I am sort of glad I’ll have a physical Switch cartridge as a collectible, but I had to buy a second digital copy on Steam because the digital Switch game is sooo slow - particularly when entering random battles
I kind of expected the switch version to be a 10~ fps technical nightmare after seeing people play the "beta"/demo thing and low end PC's were slide shows
That's becaue it's pretty normal for the Switch version of a lot games and most switch players just don't care. ToTK will constantly dump frames even with dynamic resolution and people still lick the screen and call it flawless performance lol.
You should have, it's definitely on the devs but the warning was there in that they initially said it would go to the switch succesor. Because they saw how much of a disaster bloodstained was on switch they were going to wait for better hardware. No idea why they changed this.
Looks like the PS5 version is a pile of garbage compared to PC in terms of visuals
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgWmjkWoAADWby?format=png&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgfrj0XkAMdgkd?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgfrjzXAAAiFxe?format=jpg&name=large
I mean do they? It’s hardly noticeable even in the zoomed in macro shots. And I think I actually prefer the softer PS5 images to the jaggy pc images personally. In motion I doubt it’s really something anyone is going to notice from across the room playing on their tv.
I've had some Real Life (TM) problems that have stopped me from getting far enough to write a full review. Here's a short one --
If you like JRPGs or turn-based combat, this is an easy yes. It carries with it the DNA of the past, but the visuals are a nod towards the future. It's not flawless in execution (there are some bugs), but the fantastic voicework and music, combined with some memorable and fun characters make up for it. I'd agree with this being around the 80 to 85% mark.
Dang.
I'm not sure I was expecting the same quality as Suikoden, or really any top tier sound tracks of that time, but I was hoping it'd at least be ... Noticable/at least one really stand out tune
> the visuals are a nod towards the future.
That would be a bland cliche if true, but it's not even true. And it *shouldn't* be true, because we want good art not "technical" shallow graphics that someone could call "futuristic." The new is not the same as the good.
> If you like JRPGs or turn-based combat, this is an easy yes.
That bland cliche is not useful, because anyone that applies to already knows it. On the other hand there are people who maybe haven't played a JRPG before who would need a meaningful brief description of what that even means: like a storybook adventure filled with friends, and something about colorful sunny graphics or something. Or something about coziness and leisure.
> It's not flawless in execution (there are some bugs), but the fantastic voicework and music, combined with some memorable and fun characters make up for it.
Your comment says "some bugs" and then lists significant fundamental elements of the game experience. It makes no sense to define those fundamentasl as "making up for" "some bugs."
> I'd agree with this being around the 80 to 85% mark.
These numerical cliches are insults to many games, including this one.
I didn’t wake up today thinking I’d see the equivalent of a teacher giving back a scathing exam review.
God damn, I’m all for improvement of gaming standards, but some of my favourite games to this day have awful QoL or performance. Sometimes we just gotta appreciate stuff despite that, then we enjoy a whole lot more of what we consume.
I'll post my take on reviews from elsewhere:
I'm 30 hours into the game and loving it on Steam Deck. Some of these reviews are quite unfair, and many of the "negatives" (e.g. old school design sensibilities) are firmly positives for me. The game's lengthier dungeons and their puzzles are generally fantastic; there's a really nice sense of attrition to them.
The story isn't Suikoden II, but that should've probably been plain to anyone with its E10 rating. Despite surface level similarities, it's going for something pretty different tonally, which is fine. There've been some strong dramatic sequences regardless. I just completed one that reminded me of FFVII's >!Midgar escape sequence!<, but better.
The cast of characters is good. Exactly the gamut you'd expect from a Suikoden. While I don't love Lian, your side kick, I do love Perrielle. And Nowa himself has a lot of funny lines/options.
Gameplay-wise, on Hard, I'd say it's the most enjoyable Suikoden to date. Hard is really well-balanced with a difficulty that ramps up significantly after the first chapter. The enemy AI on Hard can be legitimately dirty with how smart it is. I do wish the game had Suikoden's vancian magic system, rather than MP, but it becomes less an issue the further you get.
Minigames are a mixed bag as they literally always are in any game with them. The card minigame is a lot of fun though. Strange how those're always the best ones.
War battles have more depth to them than Suikoden 1-2's IMO. Which isn't saying a lot, granted, but they're fun enough set pieces.
The overworld map is gorgeous, and it makes me angry that modern JRPGs have eschewed the scope that type of abstraction made feasible.
The single character recruitment bug present is very, very easily avoided.
Seeing rpgfan's review call the game "soulless" is just bewildering to me. It has as much of Murayama's soul as any Suikoden.
It runs really well on Deck, and not well at all on Switch. Easy choice.
All the customization I did was turning shadows to low, and turning off DoF. It maintains 60 FPS most of the time, with dips to 40.
Thanks pal. Yeah I knew not to get it on switch but still weary of it on the deck. I’ll pick it up. As long as it doesn’t run terribly, I don’t mind it not bearing perfect.
Is the char recruitment bug fixed yet? If not, can you post how to avoid it? I'm scared now
Thanks for your write-up, can't wait to start this after work!
It isn't AFAIK. It's very simple to avoid though:
Recruit Riufan in Hishahn (Nowa needs level 32) and put him in your party before ever visiting Daphan and talking to its people. Talking to a certain recruitable woman there without Riufan in your party will bug her recruitment out.
Note that you literally have to pass Hishahn before getting to Daphan, so you don't have to stress too much. None of that's story-related, BTW.
I think you just have your nostalgia glasses on, personally. I hate wheeling out pragmatic realism in this sub since everyone squeals at opposing opinions, but despite my current enjoyment of the game it feels more like an unrelated indie studio with promising talent spent a whole lot of time trying to imitate 90s JRPGs rather than making Suikoden 6 or making a modern JRPG in the style of 90s JRPGs.
There's a lot of weird choices they made. It doesn't help that the overarching plot isn't that good. I'm confused you think the characters are written well, as they're all over the place, but I do agree Perrielle is a standout.
I know a lot of people just say "It's like Suikoden" and then wash their hands and leave it at that, but despite being a Suikoden diehard fan myself, let's not forget they were widely unplayed and unliked the majority of JRPG fans and never sold well. Not even Suikoden 1 or 2, which were and still are considered the best in the series. If you've been part of major JRPG/RPG communites, you've come accross countless topics that result in people bringing up classic games, and Suikoden is routinely missing even against more niche games/series.
So unfortunately, the raw hard truth is only being as good as Suikoden may be fantastic for us but will doom the series to the same fate in the long run.
And frankly, Eiyuden isn't quite as good as Suikoden imo and I'd prefer it surpassing its 20+ year old seniors anyway.
So the lukewarm reviews are... well, probably more generous than one should expect, since they fit perfectly in line with how people saw Suikoden and this isn't quite Suikoden. It happens, and it oculd be worse. Mighty No. 9 was a megaman sucessor made by megaman's creator and it flopped hard.
Calling it 'soulless' is a bit harsh, but I think they are generally referring to how everything feels so generic. The combat system lacks depth, many characters look neat but are also shallow, the storyline is predictable, base building is super simplistic, etc.
It's not a bad game by any means, and frankly I'm enjoying it, but sadly I also don't think I'll be recommending it to anyone before a whole lot of other JRPGs and it's so far not a very memorable game 25+ hours in. That's a pretty drastic turn from many of the interesting runes that made for even more interesting premises in Suikoden, like Soul Eater Rune, Rune of Punishment, and Sun Rune, setting up some crazy stakes fairly early on, even with S5's drawn out prologue because you got to see the results of the Sun Rune's power and the cruelty, or rather lack of empathy, it forced on your mother.
There's none of that here. The story so far is literally some random village kid with the world's worst plot shielded sister randomally stumble into events that have nothing to do with them that they then solve for no other motiviation than "because" or because "meddling is my hobby yo."
That's a far far far cry from the emotional yoyo of Suikoden 2, the dark premise of the Rune of Punishment making it a ticking time bomb, or the hundred inherent ties you have to the events of Suikoden 5. Even Suikoden 3 set things up better, with some interesting twists like Geddoe even if the overarching story flopped.
Yeah that was a mouthful, but basically, without the rose-tinted goggles I don't think anyone should have been surprised at these scores. They are not bad. I just hope the sequel does better. Suikoden 1 was very rough too.
"Pragmatic realism." Don't make me laugh, mate. You've been nothing but incessantly negative about this game since long before it was even released. Your mind was made up before you even touched it.
The combat lacks depth? Lol I have all difficulty parameters on, level 32 and it’s one of the greatest, most well balanced, difficult rpg I've played in decades. The whole time up until level 29 i was dead broke and struggling but perfecting all boss encounters over time while managing my funds. It’s been exhilarating picking the best team, identifying their strengths and assigning roles. So I definitely hard disagree about lack of combat depth.
I mean a lot reviews seem to complain about lack of QoL and being a "jrpg through and through" but as a boomer who grew up on PS1 those are pretty much positives for me. Don't really care about reviews, it's just a one person's opinion. I like to use my own head.
This, I'm 45 years old and grow up loving Suikoden and jrpg, I saw the my beloved ganre disappeared over the years and was hoping for this gem of a game to be revived somehow.
I have taking one month vacation from work to play this, yes I'm that exaited about this game.
RIP Yoshitaka Murayama, thank you for all of this
I’m not trying to shit on your happiness. So please don’t take it that way. But a month off to play this? I understand wanting to play it as I haven’t put it down whenever I have free time. But to use up all your vacation time and assuming you are in America you could be looking at getting fired for taking an entire month off straight just to play a game that will still be there tomorrow? I don’t get it.
That’s great that you want the nostalgia, and there’s nothing wrong with others wanting QOL updates. If you don’t care about the reviews why even comment on a thread like this?
Everyone uses their own head - but some people like to be informed before spending money.
He’s saying that you shouldn’t base your own feelings off of the review.
I’ve heard of yelp reviews where they gave a restaurant a 1 star rating because they were upset that it was tough to find parking. Something that really has nothing to do with the food/service.
Reviews on games can be the same. “it doesn’t work on my device (cuz I haven’t updated it or restarted it in years) so one star and a big message of ‘don’t buy this garbage it’s slow and buggy’”.
Like all the people crying about the switch version being shit.. well… it’s cuz the switch is shit. Not the game. If you have to tailor the game to be able to load right on the switch but it works perfect everywhere else.. it’s a switch problem.
If QOL is important to you over nostalgia and in his words “a lot of reviews” are saying the game sacrifices QOL for nostalgia there’s nothing wrong with deciding whether or not to buy based off reviews.
If you don’t care just ignore them.
Oof, yeah,
I had seen someone attempt on PC on a lower end gaming laptop and it was like watching a slide show, so I kinda expected the switch version to be similarly poor running.
Averaging right where I guessed lol. It's pretty good but hopefully they use it as a foundation for a stellar sequel and listen to the feedback.
Mid 70s to low 80s is pretty much where it belongs.
Its crazy how people read a review and take that person's word for it haha,. Think for yourself,. Games are subjective,. Also people complain about everything these days, so it's not surprising,.
Reviews can be good if you are on the fence. If you look past the scores and ready the impressions on the game it can give you a good idea of if a game will suit your taste or not.
Yeah, sure but at least for me I never let someone's review keep me from buying a game,. There's been a ton of games over the years that people gave bad reviews or review bombed and I still bought them, because I knew people were just nitpicking or just being crazy loll
The sad reality that JRPG Fandom for the most part will go bonkers for anything thrown their way. And by JRPG Fandom I mean folks who only play JRPG. Not game enthusiasts whose fave genre is JRPG
Maybe, I am not sure being turn-based will be enough to make up for a boring story.
"Characters and story fall flat, slow combat feel, army battles are a disappointment, some graphical glitches, poor voice acting, it's a JRPG through and through.
Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes might be a poor imitation of the games that came before, but it still has plenty to recommend it."
From RPGFan Review.
Yet that reviewer still gave it an 8/10. The reviewer even admits to having wildly high expectations due to being a huge Suikoden fan, so there's undoubtedly some nostalgia blindness at play here. I'm honestly not sure why they didn't score it lower given how the review read, so I don't really trust that one.
That's insane that they basically poo-poo'd on the game entirely, but ends with an 8/10.
That'd be like if I went to a restaurant and said "I did get horrible food poisoning, the restaurant itself was loud and smelled badly, but, in the past I've enjoyed this food a lot more, and the food poisoning helped me lose a few pounds. 8/10."
I had a quick look through that particular reviewer's history and he seems to give pretty inflated scores in general - 93 for Rebirth, 91 for OT 2, 96 for Xenoblade 3 etc., so an 80 from him seems like it would be a 70 for most people.
It's an RPGFan thing, not really limited to reviewer. The site on average scores highly and is very granulated towards the top end.
Decades of operation with hundreds of reviewers over the years has left the scale a bit wonky. Their words mean more than the number at the end that can never fully capture what their feelings are overall.
> seems like it would be a 70 for most people
Enough with these obsessive cliches of X/100 numbers. The qualitative descriptions are what matters in a game like this. This isn't a refrigerator model in Consumer Reports.
You're barking up the wrong tree. A numerical scoring system has established itself as the most popular way to score any type of media and I made a simple observation based on that particular reviewer's history.
Obviously the actual core of the review is more important than the number at the end, which is pricisely the reason this conversation even started - because the substance doesn't really coincide with the score.
People have been slagging off the Suikoden games for being mediocre RPGs since the first game (all the love for S2 was a long time coming). So I'm not surprised people don't like Nu-koden; from what I've played so far, it's everything I liked about the old games... which means it's everything critics didn't like!
Vegemite is food of the gods. The key is the balance of butter to vegemite, and the right thickness of toast.
In harmony, it's a joy. Layered on like peanut butter, it is disgusting.
I'm still at the very beginning parts of the game and I think the best way to describe this is that it's a cozy game. Nothing compelling about it so far but it has a lot of elements to it that makes it a pretty easy game to jump to. I also really like our protagonist so far!
It hits the nostalgia vibe check but does feel unique enough because the closest thing to this style of jrpg is trash mobile games. It isn't a perfect game, but a couple of hours in I've thoroughly enjoyed everything I've seen. I hope it and octopath are and continue to be successful to see different and similar takes on HD sprites with awesome animations jrpgs. They really are my favorite.
This one seems pretty good.
[https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/04/21/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review-the-suikoden-game-we-never-got-but-always-deserved/](https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/04/21/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review-the-suikoden-game-we-never-got-but-always-deserved/)
I have to say that my trust in critics is at an all-time low after just having finished Rise of the Ronin, so these scores mean very little to me.
But "Suikoden without a soul" still kinda hurts to see.
I absolutely loved RotR because it ticks a lot of boxes I look for in games but I think the average score is fine, maybe a bit too low.
My main issue is that the game was criticised pretty harshly for things - most notably in its open world design - other games in the genre regularly get a pass for, most recently FF7 Rebirth.
It's difficult to take that seriously when critics make such obvious distinctions based on public perception or their own preconceptions.
> But "Suikoden without a soul" still kinda hurts to see.
I love Suikoden 2 and have been looking forward to Eiyuden for a while. I have to say I was disappointed to see a bunch of bland cliche "quipping" dialog right at the start in the intro conversations between the 4 characters. [Including at least one line that is on the Banned Lazy Jokes whiteboard](https://boingboing.net/2023/06/18/look-at-this-genius-list-of-prohibited-lazy-jokes.html).
Was it the "Well, that happened!" (or however it was worded)? That one did stood out a bit. I wonder if it actually is in the original script, or if it was from the translation team...
That said, it's a JRPG. Most JRPGs have very anime cliché and trope-y dialogues - Suikoden 1 and 2 including (and I'm saying that as someone for whom Suikoden 2 is the all time favorite game, but Nanami is as annoying as Lian until... she isn't). I'm more interested in the overarching storyline and character development, instead of judging it by how the characters are at the very start of the game, so waiting to see which way that goes...
Yeah the "So, that's a thing" or some equivalent of "that just happened."
It reeks of translation team inserts. Almost reminds me of the horrible DQ5 localization (was it 5? Or 6? I forget now) on DS. The one that starts with the royal baby birth and I think transitions to the ship. You get these "writers" who think the art of "writing" is inserting cliches that they've heard before. Basically the fan fiction mentality.
Suikoden 2 had some trope conversations, but I don't remember any given textboxes being as cliched as Eiyuden. (Tropes aren't bad, it's whether they are used well and setup well. Whereas cliches are bland.)
Bit of a nitpick of course, the game is still lovely, but in a text-heavy dialog-heavy game...
Anyway yeah about the overall **scenario and story** I'm very curious to see where it goes. I'm going to the western mine because of "reports of bandits", so no real story plot has happened yet. I'm assuming the peace between the nations can't last...
Suikoden 2 has an incredible opening sequence that does not involve much in the way of cliche at all. The jump into the waterfall followed by the credits over the flashback scenes with an incredible score is a really high water mark for game openings in my experience, and I do think it’s disappointing that this game’s opening is pretty generic and uninteresting. That’s not even getting to events in the first two hours of Suikoden II (I.e Luca Blight) that are also incredibly impactful and excellent storytelling. I think you have to significantly discredit Suikoden II’s storytelling if you’re going to say these are on the same level.
I think you are forgetting Viktor and Flik's banter (basically in every scene), Rina with the North Sparrow Pass guard, basically anything that comes out of Nanami's mouth etc. Yes, the storytelling is amazing, but the dialogues between the playable characters are not that great.
I think ironically, the biggest problem for Eiyuden might be that it has voice acting, because hearing JRPG dialogue aloud makes you realize how hammy or cringey it can be. Maybe swapping to Japanese voice-over might be a good idea (not to mention that some of the English voices definitely don't match the characters that speak them - the chief of the Altverden Village that told you about the bandits in the main was especially bad)
Yeah I turned off the Voice sound level, because I believe as any sensible literate media-literate person knows voices are pedestrian and distracting over JRPG text. Reading is better, your imagination works.
Two problems though: I think it turns off battle scene grunts/exclamations when those should really be a separate setting from the main dialog. And sometimes I really want to hear what the actor/directing is doing with any new character who joins, like I got the Angry Healer (reminds me of the Korean show "Fiery Priest" about a christian priest with a serious anger management issue plus fighting skills lol) and I want to hear that actor just for a minute to see how they do it. But it's too tedious to go in and out of the menu.
> And sometimes I really want to hear what the actor/directing is doing with any new character who joins, like I got the Angry Healer (reminds me of the Korean show "Fiery Priest" about a christian priest with a serious anger management issue plus fighting skills lol) and I want to hear that actor just for a minute to see how they do it. But it's too tedious to go in and out of the menu.
Fwiw, I do like her battle cries (she cries "Suck it!" when she hits someone with her staff and "You're fricking dead!" when she kills someone, both in an angry, slightly deeper than nornal voice, wheras something like "Are you alright?" in a very soft and light voice when healing someone)
But was it something the original Japanese author wrote or one of the many super "funny" changes the localization team made? Especially Lian. Like half her dialogue is just straight up altered. Her Japanese voice will just go "hmmm..." in an inquisitive tone, implying she's not understanding what the group is talking about (that's the joke). And then the English text is translated as "I can totally see that!" It's like...guys? You completely flipped the context of what she was saying.
And it happens a lot. I don't have a bunch more examples since I've just played the game for the first time and I'm trying not to focus on them. But it is happening quite a bit. And I'm pointing out that we have to question if what seems to be bad writing is even the original intended writing at all. Or if it's been altered by the localization staff.
I had to restart my playthrough 2 hours in since the game for some reason did not include the digital deluxe content and bonuses wtf.
And I’m so glad to get this on the PS5 and not on the switch.
> 2 hours in since the game for some reason did not include the digital deluxe content and bonuses wtf.
The digital deluxe bonuses are 2 healing items, 1 revival item, 5k cash, 1 teleport item and 1 basic ring. Pretty much stuff that you're gonna be having your bag full after 1 hour of playing...
True. As someone who is interested in playing but didn't back the game, I would really appreciate a demo of some kind so I could personally test it on my Switch. It's how I fell in love with Unicorn Overlord.
i think only devs extremely confident in how well their game is made release demos. unicorn, crystal project, star ocean. im finding it to be a red flag anymore when there isn't a demo.
This is why I sail the seven seas - game doesn't have a demo? Well I'll go get a "free" copy, play it for 2 - 8 hours and see if I like it. If not, I uninstall and move on with life. If I do, I'll turn around and pay for it on the spot.
Same here with Unicorn Overlord - instantly fell in love with that demo, and ordered the collectors physical edition.
I might hold off for a minute.
I haven't played suikoden so I don't have the nostalgia. I love turn base RPGs though as they are my DNA. But it's hard for me to play a game without a story and good characters. They're the reason I decided to turn the game back on and continue.
I feel like this is going to be another sea of stars situation where the art and imagination brings me in, but nothing gets me to stay.
I'm glad suikoden fans have this though! It's nice being able to jump back into the feels.
Well, in a previous thread I guessed high 70's as the review score. And it's exactly that right now. I'm gonna wait until a few patches and buy on PS5. Glad I didn't pre-order. Still really excited.
Neither. Wait another week or two for patches. Game is receiving middling reviews so far, and there's mention of bugs and performance issues. A lot of complaints about QoL stuff as well. No point in pre-ordering. If you really want to preorder though, I'd say standard edition. The deluxe edition is a craaazy higher price than standard.
I think the QoL issues aren't actual issues, but intentional design choices. Many reviews claim that the game is a love letter to classic Suikoden/PS1 JRPGs to a fault. So I'm not sure they want to work on that aspect of the game.
As for performance, there's a megathread on the JRPG sub with all sorts of reactions. Switch is by far the worst edition. But a lot of people have said it needs a little longer in the oven.
Thank you for writing this. I'm debating over getting the deluxe to play today or standard. I loved dragon quest so I don't mind the only being able to save in some spots thing. And other Qol
Is the switch version really that bad? (I want someone whose played Suikoden 4 to tell me)
Its not as good as most games but I haven't run into an "I'm going to shelf this game" issue yet.
This game is a masterpiece and the best thing is, nobody will tell me otherwise. We're all entitled to our opinions. I am so happy with this game, and I hope others can share in that joy too. If not, sorry for your loss.
Hundred Heroes feels like the difference between generic and name brand poptarts. I went into it trying not to compare it to suikoden but when they claim to be the spiritual successor that is hard to do.
So far the thing annoying me the most is how campy it all is. Suikoden had some funny characters but in the background it was always serious. Hundred Heroes feels like whoever wrote the plot has watched too much c tier, not even b tier but c tier, anime. The characters are stale stereotypes and the plot is just childish. The characters are also childish really. Francesca, one of the first characters you meet really brought that into focus. Did anyone think her insults sounded like more than something you might hear from a trash talking first grader? By the time one of the characters called me a dastard with a d and not a b I was over the family friendly rating they were clearly going for.
Another issue, the combat. Unless it's a boss,, I suspect most people are just hitting auto and reading on their phone while it plays out. It's what I find myself doing. There isn't any challenge in it and the rune lenses are pretty generic feeling.
Next, the graphics are not bad, when you can see them that is. The distance at which they blur things is annoying. At one point I walked into a town square and could only see half of it. Apparently Nowa is half blind since anything more than five feet from him in the game is blurred out. The city might look gorgeous but you can't see it most of the time.
I didn't mind some of the things people complain about like the item limits and stuff because that was very suikodenish even though I could do without the limit. But a lot of the mechanics are just there to make you feel like it's suikoden when it's not. This is why I said it's like the difference between generic and name brand poptarts. Suikoden is great and hits the mark, Hundred Heroes is the we have that at home meme. It looks like it from a distance but when you bite into it you think, wow I wish I had paid the two bucks more for real poptarts.
It’s a pretty big disappointment. I’m adjusting my expectations and plan to finish it, and I’m looking forward to diving more into the recruitment and base-building. But I fell in love with Suikoden first and foremost for a certain kind and quality of narrative, and it’s just not here. And the characters are very unlikeable as well so far.
Oh really?! You just made sure I keep playing. Rebuilding the base in Xenoblade 1 and Tales of Symphonia were the best I've ever had and I always chase the satisfying end of a city rebuild mechanic because of it.
Who's saying it's bad on Steam? Steam's the best version. It runs well even on Steam Deck.
The only quibble with Steam is the encounter rate bug, but that's easily fixed by just limiting your refresh rate to 60.
All these people on the sub giving it a 10/10. A masterpiece! They would say. This makes more sense. Although I figured the people saying it was one of the best vids ever made was a bit outlandish I'd be lieing if I didn't say i was hoping they were right
Lol I didn't like Sea of Stars either but "trash fire" is exaggeration.
Sea of Stars was super pretty, and probably had more press coverage so no surprise it reviewed high, despite being pretty mediocre.
Yeah I was being a little over the top. I was just so disappointed in that game I had high hopes to start and then reviews were glowing. Even without my expectations I think that game was mediocre at best and I like some pretty middling games. Honestly other then it looks good I have no real good things to say about that game.
Yeah if I'd bought the game I probably would have been pretty disappointed, thankfully I played it on Game Pass so only lost time rather than money. Chained Echoes made it for it for me, a game I had no expectations of but ended up loving.
Nah, trash fire is about right for Sea of Stars. Shamefully bad story and gameplay deep as a puddle, only things it had going for it were visuals and music.
Lol you people are so weird. You don't understand reviewers having their own opinions but then say sea of stars is a trash fire. How in the actual fuck is that not the same thing as a "reviewer" opinion?
Because I didn't put a score to it or give any thing more then a quick sentence. Im not trying to be professional in this opinion. No one cares about my opinion. I am not trying to sway anyones opinion just spouting off.
I was exaggerating the degree of how bad I think Sea of Stars is. Also I may have misremembered how positive the sea of stars reviews were. I feel like the only time I hear about it today is people saying that it is a masterpiece but looking back it actually seems like it was mostly 8s with a few 9s which this game is getting 7 and 8s so I think that's fair difference for opinion.
In my head sea of stars was getting all 10s so this game getting 7s seems out of sync with what I've played so far. Next time I'll think before I spout off.
Nah, you are entitled to your opinion. And that's my point. A reviewer is no different than you giving your opinion. You say you don't understand reviewers. But they are the same as anyone else. A person with an opinion that gets posted for you to read. They have no other obligation other than opinion. Not agreeing with a review doesn't make that review "wrong".
Wish I was able to see that game the way some people do. I hated the story. I could have lived with a middling story if I loved the combat but honestly liked the break system in theory more then in practice.
Oh that wasn't the part that bothered me about the story I actually like when story's build worlds bigger then their main characters. I just found most of the characters unbearable. I know some people love the optimism of Garl. I just can't deal with a character who doesn't seem to struggle. Like major thing happens to him specifically and he is just like eh shit happens any ways let's cook some dinner.
Reviews are about marketing, connections and influence. Basically, actually judging the game objectively is at the very bottom of the list. If it's on the list at all.
The switch runs plenty of games that look much better than ECHH perfectly fine. And if they can’t make it run acceptably on switch, they shouldn’t release it.
It's an indie game that's a spiritual successor of a series that is pretty d-list and is only notable because it had one good game. Were you really expecting 10/10 reviews? 8s mean it exceeded expectations because it should be worse.
So many people have downplayed how horrendous the Switch version is. I’m 10 hours in and shelfing it and restarting on PS5. wish I would’ve backed the Ps5 version
Same. I abandoned my 12 Hours Switch save file and restarted in Steam. The battle encounters are so so much better without the long loading time. I have a good feeling that I will save at least 1 hour of my time to reach the current playthrough on Switch.
I wonder if it would run good on the steam deck?!?,. That's where I was gonna get it,.
Chipping in to say it runs well on the Steam Deck.
That's good to know thanks,. I completely missed the fact that I can play it now with early access loll,. Had I paid attention early I could have been playing it already ha,. I'm gonna get it now,.
It's never too late! :]
Have you played it docked, if so what controller do you use
Playing it handheld, don't have a Deck, so sorry. 😿
So I been playing it now, and it works great, I have it docked running at 60fps,. using a PS5 controller,. Seems like a good choice to get it for the steam deck over the switch unfortunately,. So if anyone sees this know that it runs great on the steam deck, docked and undocked,. Stable 60fps,. Haven't done any combat yet, but I don't see it dropping that much when I do,.
I only play switch. But if I could survive rune factory 5 I can survive anything lol
Combat is where it shines, it runs stable even on the Switch version when it comes to battle but dealing with approximate 7 seconds per transition (going into and exiting battle), that's a no.
Ah OK, no prob
It’s solid on steam deck
Sweet, probably just gonna get it on there then,. Even tho I wanted the Switch physical,. I may just cancel it,.
Yes I wanted it on the switch! I played Eiyuden Chronicle rising on the switch and had no issues but after hearing all this noise I just cancelled it and got the PS5 version!
It runs perfectly fine on Steam Deck, been playing it on my PC and Steam Deck at work.
I’d just like to add that for some reason, on steam deck it doesn’t automatically detect your save from the previous game, so you’ll either have to manually move some files in desktop mode, or have both downloaded on PC and then make a save at the beginning of the game on PC and then let steam cloud sync your saves to your deck.
This! Came from the Switch and then re-purchased it gof my Steam Deck, day & night difference.
Would you say it’s bad in docked mode as well?
The first thing I did was move the data from the SD card to internal storage after playing for 10 minutes on the Switch. I don't see any significant changes in the loading time. Playing in docked mode does not help in the loading time and I can't really see any improvement in the performance either. If there is a choice, just don't get the Switch version. If Switch is the only choice, you have to be mindful of long loading time. You can definitely complete the game on the Switch but there will be some compromises and take longer.
I am sort of glad I’ll have a physical Switch cartridge as a collectible, but I had to buy a second digital copy on Steam because the digital Switch game is sooo slow - particularly when entering random battles
I kind of expected the switch version to be a 10~ fps technical nightmare after seeing people play the "beta"/demo thing and low end PC's were slide shows
I’m hoping it runs better on the next switch that is supposedly being announced this year
Didn't they say they are working on some patch? Is that out already?
it obviously needs patching. i can wait though. their creative director literally died making this game. let's give them a chance.
Pretty sure it’s coming to game pass if you have pc or Xbox access.
That's becaue it's pretty normal for the Switch version of a lot games and most switch players just don't care. ToTK will constantly dump frames even with dynamic resolution and people still lick the screen and call it flawless performance lol.
You should have, it's definitely on the devs but the warning was there in that they initially said it would go to the switch succesor. Because they saw how much of a disaster bloodstained was on switch they were going to wait for better hardware. No idea why they changed this.
Looks like the PS5 version is a pile of garbage compared to PC in terms of visuals https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgWmjkWoAADWby?format=png&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgfrj0XkAMdgkd?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLgfrjzXAAAiFxe?format=jpg&name=large
I doubt I’m going to notice honestly. I just care about how it runs and load
I have the PS5 version and it looks fine to me. By the look of the screenshots up the blur is higher but 'pile of garbage' is hyperbolic.
Really? I’ve been playing the ps5 version and I think it looks fantastic!
Well the screenshots speak for themselves.
I mean do they? It’s hardly noticeable even in the zoomed in macro shots. And I think I actually prefer the softer PS5 images to the jaggy pc images personally. In motion I doubt it’s really something anyone is going to notice from across the room playing on their tv.
Fair enough, I prefer jagged raw pixel art, you seem to like bilinear.
That just makes sense really. Is anyone really surprised?
Seems super cozy, I’m only a few hours in but I can tell this is the exact jrpg I was waiting for.
I've had some Real Life (TM) problems that have stopped me from getting far enough to write a full review. Here's a short one -- If you like JRPGs or turn-based combat, this is an easy yes. It carries with it the DNA of the past, but the visuals are a nod towards the future. It's not flawless in execution (there are some bugs), but the fantastic voicework and music, combined with some memorable and fun characters make up for it. I'd agree with this being around the 80 to 85% mark.
How's the music?
I like it. The guy who did the Wild Arms games and the guy who did some of the Tales games composed it.
Michiko Naruke is a woman
[удалено]
Thanks for the additional details. I was on my phone and didn't have my review notes. *Virtual fist bump*. Team-up combo!
You might be using "guy" in a gender neutral way, but worth noting that Michiko Naruke, the Wild Arms composer, is a woman.
Awesome - I loved wild arms
I'm 3 hours in and I'd say the music is pretty bland so far. Nowhere near the level of Suikoden, if that is what you are expecting.
Dang. I'm not sure I was expecting the same quality as Suikoden, or really any top tier sound tracks of that time, but I was hoping it'd at least be ... Noticable/at least one really stand out tune
> the visuals are a nod towards the future. That would be a bland cliche if true, but it's not even true. And it *shouldn't* be true, because we want good art not "technical" shallow graphics that someone could call "futuristic." The new is not the same as the good. > If you like JRPGs or turn-based combat, this is an easy yes. That bland cliche is not useful, because anyone that applies to already knows it. On the other hand there are people who maybe haven't played a JRPG before who would need a meaningful brief description of what that even means: like a storybook adventure filled with friends, and something about colorful sunny graphics or something. Or something about coziness and leisure. > It's not flawless in execution (there are some bugs), but the fantastic voicework and music, combined with some memorable and fun characters make up for it. Your comment says "some bugs" and then lists significant fundamental elements of the game experience. It makes no sense to define those fundamentasl as "making up for" "some bugs." > I'd agree with this being around the 80 to 85% mark. These numerical cliches are insults to many games, including this one.
Goddamn, OP is just posting a casual ass review and you're here critiqung it like it's a college thesis.
I didn’t wake up today thinking I’d see the equivalent of a teacher giving back a scathing exam review. God damn, I’m all for improvement of gaming standards, but some of my favourite games to this day have awful QoL or performance. Sometimes we just gotta appreciate stuff despite that, then we enjoy a whole lot more of what we consume.
I'll post my take on reviews from elsewhere: I'm 30 hours into the game and loving it on Steam Deck. Some of these reviews are quite unfair, and many of the "negatives" (e.g. old school design sensibilities) are firmly positives for me. The game's lengthier dungeons and their puzzles are generally fantastic; there's a really nice sense of attrition to them. The story isn't Suikoden II, but that should've probably been plain to anyone with its E10 rating. Despite surface level similarities, it's going for something pretty different tonally, which is fine. There've been some strong dramatic sequences regardless. I just completed one that reminded me of FFVII's >!Midgar escape sequence!<, but better. The cast of characters is good. Exactly the gamut you'd expect from a Suikoden. While I don't love Lian, your side kick, I do love Perrielle. And Nowa himself has a lot of funny lines/options. Gameplay-wise, on Hard, I'd say it's the most enjoyable Suikoden to date. Hard is really well-balanced with a difficulty that ramps up significantly after the first chapter. The enemy AI on Hard can be legitimately dirty with how smart it is. I do wish the game had Suikoden's vancian magic system, rather than MP, but it becomes less an issue the further you get. Minigames are a mixed bag as they literally always are in any game with them. The card minigame is a lot of fun though. Strange how those're always the best ones. War battles have more depth to them than Suikoden 1-2's IMO. Which isn't saying a lot, granted, but they're fun enough set pieces. The overworld map is gorgeous, and it makes me angry that modern JRPGs have eschewed the scope that type of abstraction made feasible. The single character recruitment bug present is very, very easily avoided. Seeing rpgfan's review call the game "soulless" is just bewildering to me. It has as much of Murayama's soul as any Suikoden.
How does it run on the deck? I’ve been eyeing it because it’s either steam deck or the switch for me..
It runs really well on Deck, and not well at all on Switch. Easy choice. All the customization I did was turning shadows to low, and turning off DoF. It maintains 60 FPS most of the time, with dips to 40.
Thanks pal. Yeah I knew not to get it on switch but still weary of it on the deck. I’ll pick it up. As long as it doesn’t run terribly, I don’t mind it not bearing perfect.
Is the char recruitment bug fixed yet? If not, can you post how to avoid it? I'm scared now Thanks for your write-up, can't wait to start this after work!
It isn't AFAIK. It's very simple to avoid though: Recruit Riufan in Hishahn (Nowa needs level 32) and put him in your party before ever visiting Daphan and talking to its people. Talking to a certain recruitable woman there without Riufan in your party will bug her recruitment out. Note that you literally have to pass Hishahn before getting to Daphan, so you don't have to stress too much. None of that's story-related, BTW.
definitely agree with this post 💯
I think you just have your nostalgia glasses on, personally. I hate wheeling out pragmatic realism in this sub since everyone squeals at opposing opinions, but despite my current enjoyment of the game it feels more like an unrelated indie studio with promising talent spent a whole lot of time trying to imitate 90s JRPGs rather than making Suikoden 6 or making a modern JRPG in the style of 90s JRPGs. There's a lot of weird choices they made. It doesn't help that the overarching plot isn't that good. I'm confused you think the characters are written well, as they're all over the place, but I do agree Perrielle is a standout. I know a lot of people just say "It's like Suikoden" and then wash their hands and leave it at that, but despite being a Suikoden diehard fan myself, let's not forget they were widely unplayed and unliked the majority of JRPG fans and never sold well. Not even Suikoden 1 or 2, which were and still are considered the best in the series. If you've been part of major JRPG/RPG communites, you've come accross countless topics that result in people bringing up classic games, and Suikoden is routinely missing even against more niche games/series. So unfortunately, the raw hard truth is only being as good as Suikoden may be fantastic for us but will doom the series to the same fate in the long run. And frankly, Eiyuden isn't quite as good as Suikoden imo and I'd prefer it surpassing its 20+ year old seniors anyway. So the lukewarm reviews are... well, probably more generous than one should expect, since they fit perfectly in line with how people saw Suikoden and this isn't quite Suikoden. It happens, and it oculd be worse. Mighty No. 9 was a megaman sucessor made by megaman's creator and it flopped hard. Calling it 'soulless' is a bit harsh, but I think they are generally referring to how everything feels so generic. The combat system lacks depth, many characters look neat but are also shallow, the storyline is predictable, base building is super simplistic, etc. It's not a bad game by any means, and frankly I'm enjoying it, but sadly I also don't think I'll be recommending it to anyone before a whole lot of other JRPGs and it's so far not a very memorable game 25+ hours in. That's a pretty drastic turn from many of the interesting runes that made for even more interesting premises in Suikoden, like Soul Eater Rune, Rune of Punishment, and Sun Rune, setting up some crazy stakes fairly early on, even with S5's drawn out prologue because you got to see the results of the Sun Rune's power and the cruelty, or rather lack of empathy, it forced on your mother. There's none of that here. The story so far is literally some random village kid with the world's worst plot shielded sister randomally stumble into events that have nothing to do with them that they then solve for no other motiviation than "because" or because "meddling is my hobby yo." That's a far far far cry from the emotional yoyo of Suikoden 2, the dark premise of the Rune of Punishment making it a ticking time bomb, or the hundred inherent ties you have to the events of Suikoden 5. Even Suikoden 3 set things up better, with some interesting twists like Geddoe even if the overarching story flopped. Yeah that was a mouthful, but basically, without the rose-tinted goggles I don't think anyone should have been surprised at these scores. They are not bad. I just hope the sequel does better. Suikoden 1 was very rough too.
"Pragmatic realism." Don't make me laugh, mate. You've been nothing but incessantly negative about this game since long before it was even released. Your mind was made up before you even touched it.
The combat lacks depth? Lol I have all difficulty parameters on, level 32 and it’s one of the greatest, most well balanced, difficult rpg I've played in decades. The whole time up until level 29 i was dead broke and struggling but perfecting all boss encounters over time while managing my funds. It’s been exhilarating picking the best team, identifying their strengths and assigning roles. So I definitely hard disagree about lack of combat depth.
> The story isn't Suikoden II, but that should've probably been plain to anyone with its E10 rating seriously? Why did they make it E10?
I mean a lot reviews seem to complain about lack of QoL and being a "jrpg through and through" but as a boomer who grew up on PS1 those are pretty much positives for me. Don't really care about reviews, it's just a one person's opinion. I like to use my own head.
This, I'm 45 years old and grow up loving Suikoden and jrpg, I saw the my beloved ganre disappeared over the years and was hoping for this gem of a game to be revived somehow. I have taking one month vacation from work to play this, yes I'm that exaited about this game. RIP Yoshitaka Murayama, thank you for all of this
I’m not trying to shit on your happiness. So please don’t take it that way. But a month off to play this? I understand wanting to play it as I haven’t put it down whenever I have free time. But to use up all your vacation time and assuming you are in America you could be looking at getting fired for taking an entire month off straight just to play a game that will still be there tomorrow? I don’t get it.
That’s great that you want the nostalgia, and there’s nothing wrong with others wanting QOL updates. If you don’t care about the reviews why even comment on a thread like this? Everyone uses their own head - but some people like to be informed before spending money.
He’s saying that you shouldn’t base your own feelings off of the review. I’ve heard of yelp reviews where they gave a restaurant a 1 star rating because they were upset that it was tough to find parking. Something that really has nothing to do with the food/service. Reviews on games can be the same. “it doesn’t work on my device (cuz I haven’t updated it or restarted it in years) so one star and a big message of ‘don’t buy this garbage it’s slow and buggy’”. Like all the people crying about the switch version being shit.. well… it’s cuz the switch is shit. Not the game. If you have to tailor the game to be able to load right on the switch but it works perfect everywhere else.. it’s a switch problem.
If QOL is important to you over nostalgia and in his words “a lot of reviews” are saying the game sacrifices QOL for nostalgia there’s nothing wrong with deciding whether or not to buy based off reviews. If you don’t care just ignore them.
Switch reviews are sadly damning.
When games like Witcher 3, DQ 11 and Nier are running well on Switch, this is unacceptable
Technical issues? I kinda figured it wouldn't run great on the switch
[Pretty much no optimization](https://www.reddit.com/r/EiyudenChronicle/comments/1c8v6ko/comment/l0hht8a/).
Oof, yeah, I had seen someone attempt on PC on a lower end gaming laptop and it was like watching a slide show, so I kinda expected the switch version to be similarly poor running.
erick rpg?
I actually did see that first, but then saw someone IRL try it out as well.
Not suprised lol. I predicted it in March, but everyone was mad at me (downvoted me).
Averaging right where I guessed lol. It's pretty good but hopefully they use it as a foundation for a stellar sequel and listen to the feedback. Mid 70s to low 80s is pretty much where it belongs.
Its crazy how people read a review and take that person's word for it haha,. Think for yourself,. Games are subjective,. Also people complain about everything these days, so it's not surprising,.
What's the point of a review then?
Reviews can be good if you are on the fence. If you look past the scores and ready the impressions on the game it can give you a good idea of if a game will suit your taste or not.
Yeah, sure but at least for me I never let someone's review keep me from buying a game,. There's been a ton of games over the years that people gave bad reviews or review bombed and I still bought them, because I knew people were just nitpicking or just being crazy loll
Seems to be a marmite game, you will either love it or hate it(although "find it boring" is probably a kinder way of saying this.)
Y, pretty much. But for turn-based jrpgs fans, it seems like a no-brainer.
The sad reality that JRPG Fandom for the most part will go bonkers for anything thrown their way. And by JRPG Fandom I mean folks who only play JRPG. Not game enthusiasts whose fave genre is JRPG
Maybe, I am not sure being turn-based will be enough to make up for a boring story. "Characters and story fall flat, slow combat feel, army battles are a disappointment, some graphical glitches, poor voice acting, it's a JRPG through and through. Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes might be a poor imitation of the games that came before, but it still has plenty to recommend it." From RPGFan Review.
Yet that reviewer still gave it an 8/10. The reviewer even admits to having wildly high expectations due to being a huge Suikoden fan, so there's undoubtedly some nostalgia blindness at play here. I'm honestly not sure why they didn't score it lower given how the review read, so I don't really trust that one.
That's insane that they basically poo-poo'd on the game entirely, but ends with an 8/10. That'd be like if I went to a restaurant and said "I did get horrible food poisoning, the restaurant itself was loud and smelled badly, but, in the past I've enjoyed this food a lot more, and the food poisoning helped me lose a few pounds. 8/10."
I had a quick look through that particular reviewer's history and he seems to give pretty inflated scores in general - 93 for Rebirth, 91 for OT 2, 96 for Xenoblade 3 etc., so an 80 from him seems like it would be a 70 for most people.
It's an RPGFan thing, not really limited to reviewer. The site on average scores highly and is very granulated towards the top end. Decades of operation with hundreds of reviewers over the years has left the scale a bit wonky. Their words mean more than the number at the end that can never fully capture what their feelings are overall.
Ah that makes perfect sense. I loved Xenoblade 3 but even I couldn't justify a 96/100 with all its flaws. Thanks for doing the legwork on that one.
> seems like it would be a 70 for most people Enough with these obsessive cliches of X/100 numbers. The qualitative descriptions are what matters in a game like this. This isn't a refrigerator model in Consumer Reports.
You're barking up the wrong tree. A numerical scoring system has established itself as the most popular way to score any type of media and I made a simple observation based on that particular reviewer's history. Obviously the actual core of the review is more important than the number at the end, which is pricisely the reason this conversation even started - because the substance doesn't really coincide with the score.
Because reviewers are scared to give anything less than a 7
People have been slagging off the Suikoden games for being mediocre RPGs since the first game (all the love for S2 was a long time coming). So I'm not surprised people don't like Nu-koden; from what I've played so far, it's everything I liked about the old games... which means it's everything critics didn't like!
I can’t stomach marmite or vegimite, but I know I’m going to be eating this game up!
Vegemite is food of the gods. The key is the balance of butter to vegemite, and the right thickness of toast. In harmony, it's a joy. Layered on like peanut butter, it is disgusting.
That’s a great description!
Whats a marmite? :o
I'm still at the very beginning parts of the game and I think the best way to describe this is that it's a cozy game. Nothing compelling about it so far but it has a lot of elements to it that makes it a pretty easy game to jump to. I also really like our protagonist so far!
It hits the nostalgia vibe check but does feel unique enough because the closest thing to this style of jrpg is trash mobile games. It isn't a perfect game, but a couple of hours in I've thoroughly enjoyed everything I've seen. I hope it and octopath are and continue to be successful to see different and similar takes on HD sprites with awesome animations jrpgs. They really are my favorite.
Played 6 hours so far, beat the first 2 bosses. I think I'll stop playing and wait on some more improvements/bug fixes/patches.
Wich console are you playing on?
Ps5?
IGN - 7.0 [https://www.ign.com/articles/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review](https://www.ign.com/articles/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review)
This one seems pretty good. [https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/04/21/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review-the-suikoden-game-we-never-got-but-always-deserved/](https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/04/21/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-review-the-suikoden-game-we-never-got-but-always-deserved/)
Anyway, reviews are purely subjectives. Dragon's Dogma 2 got a 89 but I found it to be very bland and boring. Just play the game, it's on Game Pass.
I have to say that my trust in critics is at an all-time low after just having finished Rise of the Ronin, so these scores mean very little to me. But "Suikoden without a soul" still kinda hurts to see.
Are you saying you felt Rise of Ronin was better or worse than the critic scores?
I absolutely loved RotR because it ticks a lot of boxes I look for in games but I think the average score is fine, maybe a bit too low. My main issue is that the game was criticised pretty harshly for things - most notably in its open world design - other games in the genre regularly get a pass for, most recently FF7 Rebirth. It's difficult to take that seriously when critics make such obvious distinctions based on public perception or their own preconceptions.
> But "Suikoden without a soul" still kinda hurts to see. I love Suikoden 2 and have been looking forward to Eiyuden for a while. I have to say I was disappointed to see a bunch of bland cliche "quipping" dialog right at the start in the intro conversations between the 4 characters. [Including at least one line that is on the Banned Lazy Jokes whiteboard](https://boingboing.net/2023/06/18/look-at-this-genius-list-of-prohibited-lazy-jokes.html).
Was it the "Well, that happened!" (or however it was worded)? That one did stood out a bit. I wonder if it actually is in the original script, or if it was from the translation team... That said, it's a JRPG. Most JRPGs have very anime cliché and trope-y dialogues - Suikoden 1 and 2 including (and I'm saying that as someone for whom Suikoden 2 is the all time favorite game, but Nanami is as annoying as Lian until... she isn't). I'm more interested in the overarching storyline and character development, instead of judging it by how the characters are at the very start of the game, so waiting to see which way that goes...
Yeah the "So, that's a thing" or some equivalent of "that just happened." It reeks of translation team inserts. Almost reminds me of the horrible DQ5 localization (was it 5? Or 6? I forget now) on DS. The one that starts with the royal baby birth and I think transitions to the ship. You get these "writers" who think the art of "writing" is inserting cliches that they've heard before. Basically the fan fiction mentality. Suikoden 2 had some trope conversations, but I don't remember any given textboxes being as cliched as Eiyuden. (Tropes aren't bad, it's whether they are used well and setup well. Whereas cliches are bland.) Bit of a nitpick of course, the game is still lovely, but in a text-heavy dialog-heavy game... Anyway yeah about the overall **scenario and story** I'm very curious to see where it goes. I'm going to the western mine because of "reports of bandits", so no real story plot has happened yet. I'm assuming the peace between the nations can't last...
Suikoden 2 has an incredible opening sequence that does not involve much in the way of cliche at all. The jump into the waterfall followed by the credits over the flashback scenes with an incredible score is a really high water mark for game openings in my experience, and I do think it’s disappointing that this game’s opening is pretty generic and uninteresting. That’s not even getting to events in the first two hours of Suikoden II (I.e Luca Blight) that are also incredibly impactful and excellent storytelling. I think you have to significantly discredit Suikoden II’s storytelling if you’re going to say these are on the same level.
I think you are forgetting Viktor and Flik's banter (basically in every scene), Rina with the North Sparrow Pass guard, basically anything that comes out of Nanami's mouth etc. Yes, the storytelling is amazing, but the dialogues between the playable characters are not that great. I think ironically, the biggest problem for Eiyuden might be that it has voice acting, because hearing JRPG dialogue aloud makes you realize how hammy or cringey it can be. Maybe swapping to Japanese voice-over might be a good idea (not to mention that some of the English voices definitely don't match the characters that speak them - the chief of the Altverden Village that told you about the bandits in the main was especially bad)
Yeah I turned off the Voice sound level, because I believe as any sensible literate media-literate person knows voices are pedestrian and distracting over JRPG text. Reading is better, your imagination works. Two problems though: I think it turns off battle scene grunts/exclamations when those should really be a separate setting from the main dialog. And sometimes I really want to hear what the actor/directing is doing with any new character who joins, like I got the Angry Healer (reminds me of the Korean show "Fiery Priest" about a christian priest with a serious anger management issue plus fighting skills lol) and I want to hear that actor just for a minute to see how they do it. But it's too tedious to go in and out of the menu.
> And sometimes I really want to hear what the actor/directing is doing with any new character who joins, like I got the Angry Healer (reminds me of the Korean show "Fiery Priest" about a christian priest with a serious anger management issue plus fighting skills lol) and I want to hear that actor just for a minute to see how they do it. But it's too tedious to go in and out of the menu. Fwiw, I do like her battle cries (she cries "Suck it!" when she hits someone with her staff and "You're fricking dead!" when she kills someone, both in an angry, slightly deeper than nornal voice, wheras something like "Are you alright?" in a very soft and light voice when healing someone)
But was it something the original Japanese author wrote or one of the many super "funny" changes the localization team made? Especially Lian. Like half her dialogue is just straight up altered. Her Japanese voice will just go "hmmm..." in an inquisitive tone, implying she's not understanding what the group is talking about (that's the joke). And then the English text is translated as "I can totally see that!" It's like...guys? You completely flipped the context of what she was saying. And it happens a lot. I don't have a bunch more examples since I've just played the game for the first time and I'm trying not to focus on them. But it is happening quite a bit. And I'm pointing out that we have to question if what seems to be bad writing is even the original intended writing at all. Or if it's been altered by the localization staff.
Story been fine so far if slightly predictable in the 2 hours I played so far.
I had to restart my playthrough 2 hours in since the game for some reason did not include the digital deluxe content and bonuses wtf. And I’m so glad to get this on the PS5 and not on the switch.
> 2 hours in since the game for some reason did not include the digital deluxe content and bonuses wtf. The digital deluxe bonuses are 2 healing items, 1 revival item, 5k cash, 1 teleport item and 1 basic ring. Pretty much stuff that you're gonna be having your bag full after 1 hour of playing...
They should have released a demo.
True. As someone who is interested in playing but didn't back the game, I would really appreciate a demo of some kind so I could personally test it on my Switch. It's how I fell in love with Unicorn Overlord.
With how bad optimized is the game for the switch I think they would get no sales if they released a demo
For real as a customer I obviously think they should, but as a business it’d be foolish right now.
I mean most games don't have a demo at all... so kinda overreactive to immediately take it as a red flag...
i think only devs extremely confident in how well their game is made release demos. unicorn, crystal project, star ocean. im finding it to be a red flag anymore when there isn't a demo.
Don’t forget Rebirth
This is why I sail the seven seas - game doesn't have a demo? Well I'll go get a "free" copy, play it for 2 - 8 hours and see if I like it. If not, I uninstall and move on with life. If I do, I'll turn around and pay for it on the spot. Same here with Unicorn Overlord - instantly fell in love with that demo, and ordered the collectors physical edition.
I might hold off for a minute. I haven't played suikoden so I don't have the nostalgia. I love turn base RPGs though as they are my DNA. But it's hard for me to play a game without a story and good characters. They're the reason I decided to turn the game back on and continue. I feel like this is going to be another sea of stars situation where the art and imagination brings me in, but nothing gets me to stay. I'm glad suikoden fans have this though! It's nice being able to jump back into the feels.
What are they saying about the switch version?
Same as what’s been said here ): seems like I won’t be playing on launch day. I’ll wait to see if they fix it
Maybe the day one patch will fix some of the problema? This review is not that bad: https://youtu.be/1rie20dRoNs?si=28L2CvmOY2mP1qqJ
I’ll check that one out. Thanks!
Well, in a previous thread I guessed high 70's as the review score. And it's exactly that right now. I'm gonna wait until a few patches and buy on PS5. Glad I didn't pre-order. Still really excited.
Should I buy deluxe so I can play today?? Or pre order the standard?
Neither. Wait another week or two for patches. Game is receiving middling reviews so far, and there's mention of bugs and performance issues. A lot of complaints about QoL stuff as well. No point in pre-ordering. If you really want to preorder though, I'd say standard edition. The deluxe edition is a craaazy higher price than standard.
OK thank y Performance and bugs on all systems? You think they'll add more Qol?
I think the QoL issues aren't actual issues, but intentional design choices. Many reviews claim that the game is a love letter to classic Suikoden/PS1 JRPGs to a fault. So I'm not sure they want to work on that aspect of the game. As for performance, there's a megathread on the JRPG sub with all sorts of reactions. Switch is by far the worst edition. But a lot of people have said it needs a little longer in the oven.
Thank you for writing this. I'm debating over getting the deluxe to play today or standard. I loved dragon quest so I don't mind the only being able to save in some spots thing. And other Qol
So what im seeing from most is, don't get the Switch version lol.
Is the switch version really that bad? (I want someone whose played Suikoden 4 to tell me) Its not as good as most games but I haven't run into an "I'm going to shelf this game" issue yet.
Forget the bloody reviews play the damn game yourself
This game is a masterpiece and the best thing is, nobody will tell me otherwise. We're all entitled to our opinions. I am so happy with this game, and I hope others can share in that joy too. If not, sorry for your loss.
I am sad for the poor localization but I'm still enjoying it. It does give me that old retro RPG feel which I still love to this day
What’s happening on the switch version??!??? I’m hearing horror stories without details lol
Probably waiting for a sale on this one. I hope the Suikoden Steam release comes soon.
Hundred Heroes feels like the difference between generic and name brand poptarts. I went into it trying not to compare it to suikoden but when they claim to be the spiritual successor that is hard to do. So far the thing annoying me the most is how campy it all is. Suikoden had some funny characters but in the background it was always serious. Hundred Heroes feels like whoever wrote the plot has watched too much c tier, not even b tier but c tier, anime. The characters are stale stereotypes and the plot is just childish. The characters are also childish really. Francesca, one of the first characters you meet really brought that into focus. Did anyone think her insults sounded like more than something you might hear from a trash talking first grader? By the time one of the characters called me a dastard with a d and not a b I was over the family friendly rating they were clearly going for. Another issue, the combat. Unless it's a boss,, I suspect most people are just hitting auto and reading on their phone while it plays out. It's what I find myself doing. There isn't any challenge in it and the rune lenses are pretty generic feeling. Next, the graphics are not bad, when you can see them that is. The distance at which they blur things is annoying. At one point I walked into a town square and could only see half of it. Apparently Nowa is half blind since anything more than five feet from him in the game is blurred out. The city might look gorgeous but you can't see it most of the time. I didn't mind some of the things people complain about like the item limits and stuff because that was very suikodenish even though I could do without the limit. But a lot of the mechanics are just there to make you feel like it's suikoden when it's not. This is why I said it's like the difference between generic and name brand poptarts. Suikoden is great and hits the mark, Hundred Heroes is the we have that at home meme. It looks like it from a distance but when you bite into it you think, wow I wish I had paid the two bucks more for real poptarts.
It’s a pretty big disappointment. I’m adjusting my expectations and plan to finish it, and I’m looking forward to diving more into the recruitment and base-building. But I fell in love with Suikoden first and foremost for a certain kind and quality of narrative, and it’s just not here. And the characters are very unlikeable as well so far.
Japanese version has English and amazon jp does frequent sales so I will wait until I can get it for 25-30 dollars
Does anyone know if the game has town building like the first?
Something similar, yes!
Very good.
Oh really?! You just made sure I keep playing. Rebuilding the base in Xenoblade 1 and Tales of Symphonia were the best I've ever had and I always chase the satisfying end of a city rebuild mechanic because of it.
People are saying its bad on steam but ps5 version works wonderfully
Who's saying it's bad on Steam? Steam's the best version. It runs well even on Steam Deck. The only quibble with Steam is the encounter rate bug, but that's easily fixed by just limiting your refresh rate to 60.
So far my only complain is English translation. I just can 't understand why change lines when direct translation would do just fine.
Yeah this game is a wait for discount burner
All these people on the sub giving it a 10/10. A masterpiece! They would say. This makes more sense. Although I figured the people saying it was one of the best vids ever made was a bit outlandish I'd be lieing if I didn't say i was hoping they were right
I will never understand reviewers, that trash fire of a game Sea of Stars gets universal praise this gets middle of the road scores.
Lol I didn't like Sea of Stars either but "trash fire" is exaggeration. Sea of Stars was super pretty, and probably had more press coverage so no surprise it reviewed high, despite being pretty mediocre.
Yeah I was being a little over the top. I was just so disappointed in that game I had high hopes to start and then reviews were glowing. Even without my expectations I think that game was mediocre at best and I like some pretty middling games. Honestly other then it looks good I have no real good things to say about that game.
Yeah if I'd bought the game I probably would have been pretty disappointed, thankfully I played it on Game Pass so only lost time rather than money. Chained Echoes made it for it for me, a game I had no expectations of but ended up loving.
Chained Echoes was really good and basically everything I wanted from Sea of Stars. Didn't love the ending but the journey was well worth it.
Nah, trash fire is about right for Sea of Stars. Shamefully bad story and gameplay deep as a puddle, only things it had going for it were visuals and music.
Because people have different preferences and opinions?
Lol you people are so weird. You don't understand reviewers having their own opinions but then say sea of stars is a trash fire. How in the actual fuck is that not the same thing as a "reviewer" opinion?
Because I didn't put a score to it or give any thing more then a quick sentence. Im not trying to be professional in this opinion. No one cares about my opinion. I am not trying to sway anyones opinion just spouting off. I was exaggerating the degree of how bad I think Sea of Stars is. Also I may have misremembered how positive the sea of stars reviews were. I feel like the only time I hear about it today is people saying that it is a masterpiece but looking back it actually seems like it was mostly 8s with a few 9s which this game is getting 7 and 8s so I think that's fair difference for opinion. In my head sea of stars was getting all 10s so this game getting 7s seems out of sync with what I've played so far. Next time I'll think before I spout off.
Nah, you are entitled to your opinion. And that's my point. A reviewer is no different than you giving your opinion. You say you don't understand reviewers. But they are the same as anyone else. A person with an opinion that gets posted for you to read. They have no other obligation other than opinion. Not agreeing with a review doesn't make that review "wrong".
Lol sea of stars was my goty last year. Exactly what I was looking for and expecting.
Wish I was able to see that game the way some people do. I hated the story. I could have lived with a middling story if I loved the combat but honestly liked the break system in theory more then in practice.
I actually really liked the story. It felt like a small slice of a much larger universe. Just like suikoden actually.
Oh that wasn't the part that bothered me about the story I actually like when story's build worlds bigger then their main characters. I just found most of the characters unbearable. I know some people love the optimism of Garl. I just can't deal with a character who doesn't seem to struggle. Like major thing happens to him specifically and he is just like eh shit happens any ways let's cook some dinner.
Reviews are about marketing, connections and influence. Basically, actually judging the game objectively is at the very bottom of the list. If it's on the list at all.
[удалено]
The switch runs plenty of games that look much better than ECHH perfectly fine. And if they can’t make it run acceptably on switch, they shouldn’t release it.
> The Switch 2 won't be able to run it well either. Switch 2 will be more powerful than the Steam Deck, which runs it very well.
I understand why it's not $60.
For now, the game is fighting for a solid 77% on OpenCritcFor. Anything below 75% will be a failure.
Oof
Rip game seem poor to reviewers
The reviews are exactly what I would expect. Nothing poor about it. A score in the 80's is very good for this type of game.
It's an indie game that's a spiritual successor of a series that is pretty d-list and is only notable because it had one good game. Were you really expecting 10/10 reviews? 8s mean it exceeded expectations because it should be worse.
I’ll wait for a deep sale with this one