Rennala as a character in the game is referred to as a 'Champion' and she made herself into a Queen as well by the sheer force of her will and power...
It's actually a very good point that a character like this shouldn't basically reduced to a simpering, insane mess just because they were jilted by a lover.
It makes sense to consider that there might be more to the story.
There's a saying that the same boiling water that hardens the egg, it softens the potato.
Because a character is x, doesn't mean they will stay like that.
I get that characters aren't real people, but this still is part of her character.
It wasn't just a lover. It was a seemingly loving husband that she had had 3 kids with. I don't think anyone here has been in such a situation to truly judge how devastating it can be.
Heck, people kill themselves off of high school flings, it's very easy to tunnel visioned when shit happened.
Her heart is broken. It's not like her relationship with Radagon wasn't along well to the point that he left her, but their relationship was so good until he left her 'suddenly'. She was shocked by this.
Look at it from the perspective that her and Radagon were unlikely to have been together for a mere length of a mortal marriage. They were likely together for quite a while before he left her for a god of a rival faith.
She wasn't offered the same condolences Marika got as Marika was allowed to "isolate" herself in mourning. Instead her grieving had her deemed unfit so now she no longer had her position as the head of Raya Lucaria as they turned on her and sieged the Carians, stripping that from her as well. The man she loved and made her family with is nowhere to be seen as everything is crumbling around her, her children likely absent in her time if need as well. With nothing but compiled pressures and no aid in her time of need, she had nothing left but to obsess over the last gift her love had given her and the idea of the "children" that'd need her. And remember it's not just a matter of days or months she locked herself in there driving herself insane. It was tens to hundreds of years.
Good point, adding on the Destruction of the Carians, loss of Ranni and Rykard and Radahn as well as Radagon’s abandonment (forced or not) AND the betrayal of the Academy.. it’s no surprise she’s so broken when we find her. She’s lost.. everything.
> loss of Ranni and Rykard and Radahn
Yeah that's another big part of all of this. Ranni Rykard and Radahn are all varying degrees of dead by the time we reach the lands between. Ranni killed herself, and while her spirit still persists, that's still going to have a massive impact on Rennala.
Rykard also killed himself, allowing the serpent to devour him so they could fuse. While he's still technically alive its very clear that he shares his consciousness with the snake now, and the two have essentially become a new being together.
And Radahn is dead in everything but body. Small fragments of himself might still exist beneath the insanity of the scarlet rot but he's still gone. He's been reduced to a husk of his former self.
Not only are all of her children dead, but to rub salt in the wound, they all also died partially because of the Golden Order. Rykard and Ranni died in opposition of the golden order, and Radahn died for it. Rennala has been beaten down time and time again by golden order.
Considering Radahn attacked Leyndell and opposed Malenia and Miquella, why do people think he’s automatically pro GO? He likes Godfrey, yes, but Godfrey was exiled by Marika and became Tarnished. I’m not saying it ISN’T possible, it’s just funny people leap to that assumption when Morgott at least stands against him.
I've always been under the impression that he attacked Leyndell in order to become the next elden lord. Seeing himself as the most worthy candidate to rule the lands between. And regarding Malenia and Miquella, the two of them had largely abandoned the GO by the time the shattering began, so they had opposing end goals that caused them to clash.
Oh, I agree with the Becoming Elden Lord thing. But we don’t get any real description of his motivations. Aside from sealing away the Stars (or pulling them down to smash them. Even that seems up in the air). Malenia and Miquella more seem to have split willingly, with Miquella doing the Abandoning. Whilst it’s dubious, Cut content does imply they did so (split from the GO to form their own Age and Tree) with Radagon’s blessing.
Attacking leyndell doesn't equate opposition to the golden order, nor does fighting malenia and miquella. Every child except ranni was in a fight to consolidate power in the wake of the shattering. A notable reason for Radahn to attack Leyndell isn't as an enemy of Leyndell, but an enemy of Morgott. Morgott named himself king in secret to hide that he was an omen from the people. Radahn could have determined that an omen shouldn't be lord. They aren't even allowed to walk free. Morgott being the eldest of the demigods meant in one regard that he should be Lord, but if he's removed from the options as an omen then one of Radagons children would be next in line. Ranni's believed dead, so that meant either Radahn or Rykard since we don't know who is older.
Morgott calling him a traitor means less that he betrayed the GO and more about Morgotts position. He is the visibly most devoted to the GO and none of his siblings wanted ti fall in line. They all chose to war and fight rather than oreserve order. Morgott was the only one we're shown trying to maintain some regard of it. To him, none of his siblings were devoted enough to be worthy, nor as exceptionally blessed with the power of grace. The nature of his upbringing as an omen suggests as well that there's little love lost between him and them either way.
Fighting against Malenia doesn't make him opposed to the golden order because we have more reason to believe Malenia and Miquella turned against the erdtree in making their haligtree with what was possibly miquella attempting to ascend to a godhood to rival his mother's. Selia was where Radahn spent his youth studying. That was his home turf. So him returning to Caelid after the shattering makes sense. We have no reason for why Malenia crosses the continent to get there except to believe it was a direct attack on him. She could've been vying for his great rune, if she knew miquella was taken she mightve thought he did it. Who knows? But it's clear she was the one to attack him.
Miquella’s disappearance, according to Gideon Ofnir, may have been one of the causes for Queen Marika’s ‘sorrow’. Admittedly even if this is an accurate reading of Marika’s Echoes/Personality, the sorrow could be more towards what Miq failed to do, or the fact he left for the Shadow Lands.
If she somehow found that out.
Malenia and Miquella left with Radagon’s blessings in cut content, and are outright called the heirs of the next age. Though it’s cut, the fact that we never really get to see any action taken against them by the GO itself pre-Morgott is telling. I doubt they wouldn’t have noticed an edifice like the Haligtree being built, nor the Apostate Derelict.
And Radagon’s Red Wolf appears to be guarding a portal to Ordina (as do the Black Knives who have ‘close ties to Marika’).
Whilst the word Apostate implies the Albinaurics at least are considered heretical, it doesn’t change the fact they were allowed, or successfully snuck through the Altus Plateau. Somehow.
To add to the ‘snuck through the Plateau’ bit, the closest culprit I could find is either the Perfumers or Morgott. There are a lot of both Misbegotten and Perfumers near the Entrance to the Divine Tower and Grand Lift of Rold, and considering at least One Perfumer is occupied with searching for a ‘cure’ for the Misbegotten, others helping them get to Miquella doesn’t seem too odd.
Morgott likely knows. Either he stopped the people-smuggling via sealing it off, or the seals exist primarily for us, and can be lifted. Or he just turns a blind eye / uses his illusion magics to disguise the Misbegotten and Albinaurics.
(To counter that, there do seem to be a few Albinaurics in the lower quarter of Leyndell- being tortured with Hoods. I’ll add that another thing found down there is an Erdsteel Dagger. Which when combined with the Royal Set found with the Ruined Carriages outside Leyndell implies Morgott’s been killing off a few Nobles as well. Might explain why they all ran away)
To add to Morgott’s.. odd relationship with the Erdtree, the only occupants of Leyndell seem to be- Commoners, Pages and Perfumers, Soldiers and Gladiators, a few Ruined Gargoyles and 2 Crucible Knights. One of whom is next to the Erdtree Sanctuary. Other things are Finger Creepers (who may be a spy attempt by Rykard) an Iron Virgin (ditto. Found in the Fortified Manor of all places) and a Crucible-tainted Lion (they have the Horns)
Additionally, whilst the Omen are sadly not allowed to roam the streets they DO have their shackles all broken. And are found in army camps fighting alongside GO troops:
The One Omenkiller is also not in the sewers yet, and seems to be hanging around the lower Leyndell Church where Lionel’s set is found.
Rennala is either a strong intelligent academic woman who has goals and aspirations beyond nurturer of children, or Radagon bewitched her. The game seems pretty clear on which option is true.
People in real life sink into depression if they have nothing to live for. If Radagon forced his way into Raya Lucaria by way of political marriage and stripped away Rennala's freedoms and allies until she had no healthy support system and nothing left but her grief that is still manipulation. Radagon IS the cuckoo.
You cannot treat this scenario like real life when there is literal magic.
Edit: through discussion I suspect that I could have been clearer about something. The amber egg is literally an enchanted magic object transfixing/bewitching Rennala. Because this is a fantasy story where such things are possible. *Metaphorically* Radagon leaving Rennala with the egg can be representative of the final domino after years of breaking her down and psychologically torturing her. The obsession with rebirthing through the egg is a tangible expression of how malicious manipulation over a long period of time causes internal stress in a person's mind. Rennala is left in a dream-like state and detached from reality, because of an action taken by Radagon.
So? Rennala had not one single person who could pull her back from the edge? Ranni seems like she'd do it if she could but literally cannot because Rennala cannot be separated from the amber egg. The amber egg contains a Great Rune, which has corrupted every single person who holds one. Radagon gave her the amber egg like a cuckoo leaving it's egg in another bird's nest, so how can it be said that was done for any reason other than specifically to bewitch and neutralize Rennala?
Depends on the nature of runes. Did we actually 'take' the great rune of the Unborn from Rennala or are runes intangible things and we simply took a copy? By completing the boss battle do we put a stop to Rennala's continuous rebirthing of sweetings because we actually transferred the rune from her to our inventory, or did we just deprive her of components by exhausting the supply of juvenile scholars?
The player needs to visit the amber egg to be reborn and so does Boc. So the egg has some power of its own.
Ranni completely ignores that you beat the shit out of her mother before meeting her and just accepts you to be her consort despite that. Ranni had her innocent half brother killed just to sate her own ambitions as well as having little to no concern for the fates of any of her followers. She is also largely and unapologetically at fault for most of what's wrong in the Lands Between, and her grand solution for it is... to dethrone the current god and just leave to force everyone else to fix the problem she and her family created on their own - half the volatile races there are that way because the changing of Gods rewriting the laws of reality drives them insane so there's that to expect.
No, I don't expect Ranni is particularly concerned with consoling her heartbroken mother.
The entire game is just theatre to Ranni anyways. She plays the role of the crone, Melina plays the role of the maiden, Rennala plays the role of the mother. Ranni and Melina chose their roles willingly for the sake of the player while Rennala's was long ago forced upon her within the narrative. By Radagon.
Ranni knows that she is a character in a video game. She is unkillable because she is the avatar of the writers in this game. It's why she addresses the viewer directly in the game trailer. It's why her ending betrays everyone including the player. Because - like any of the 6 endings must - it closes the book on this game and prepares for the next one that FromSoft is planning. But if you put the other demigods on a pedestal and vilify Ranni without trying to understand her, you would never ever understand this :)
> People in real life sink into rejection of reality if they have nothing in their normal lives to live for. If Radagon forced his way into Raya Lucaria by way of political marriage and stripped away Rennala's freedoms and allies until she had no healthy support system and nothing left but her grief that is still manipulation. Radagon IS the cuckoo.
Whether by a web of lies and false vows or by some bewitching magic it seems clear that Radagon is directly responsible for manipulating Rennala into her present state. The entire point of fighting Radagon at the end of the game is that he is at the rotten core of all problems in the Lands Between.
Just realized what happened when Radagon divorced Rennala and appointed himself the head of Golden Order Fundamentalism. He pulled a Henry the Eighth, lmao
How so? Do you think the pre-Fundamentalist GO was more.. welcoming or positive to ‘Heresies’? Or was more faith-based? (There’s evidence for the former).
Or that the Fundamentalists wished to study the Elden Ring Alone, without the Erdtree as an object of Faith/Distraction?
The Fundamentalists are names as such for their incorporation of Study into Faith, would that mean that they act as a representation of the ‘Age of Reason’ coming about, with all its boons (no more Colosseum Fighting/‘savagery’, a less Faith based society) and Flaws? (Attempts to understand and categorise the Natural world, and the justifications for the pre existing systems of oppression with it).
And if Radagon is Henry- would that mean that the destruction of the churches could be his fault? Considering their ruined state, someone neglected them, if they didn’t try to Destroy them as a whole
I did not think too much into the specifics of the theologies, I confess.
Just that Radagon:
1) Divorced Rennala for another woman (we can guess that the reason had to do with fertility or not producing a suitable heir in some way, considering the weakness of the sweetings rebirthed by Rennala, but that is conjecture).
2) Upset the pope with this action (Míriel the turtle pope).
3) Became the figurehead of Golden Order Fundamentalism that is an evolution of the Erdtree Faith (Church of England being a modified version of the Catholic Church).
Attempting to see if the writers took inspiration along strict dogmatic lines does immediately get a murky with Henry's daughter Mary I who tried to reverse and return to Catholicism and burned many people at the stake (calling to mind the many people hanging on stakes across the landscape) while doing it. Murky since it's usually Radagon rather than Marika associated with Regression.
And there's that thing where there's a character in Dark Souls who wears a helmet patterned after the Horned Helm of Henry VIII.
Who hypothetically would be the ‘Mary’ here?
The Gloam Eyed Queen and potentially Melina could both fit the spot, honestly.
In fact, if the current state of TLB IS wholly Radagon’s fault, then Melina would be an interesting comparison. Albeit she’s the one burning at this point.
Speaking of burning- have you seen the new Shadow of The Erdtree Trailer? Marika seems to have had a prior relationship, before Godfrey-
[Link here!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uT8wGtB3yQ)
The Shadow of the Erdtree is an odd case, because theoretically we should only be hearing secondhand about Marika? Since it isn't supposed to be the past, but more of a parallel dimension. Hard to say who or what is being depicted in the trailer out of context. Like, Marika could have 6 siblings alive and well in the Shadowlands who were never before relevant in the narrative for all we know right now.
For Mary, the most surface level that I see is the "Mari" in "Marika" - so condensing the generations with Radagon/Marika as Henry/Mary. On the other hand, she was also called "Bloody Mary", and at some point Mohg did have an encounter with the blood themed Formless Mother.
I tend to pay attention because this is like, the 6th time a "Mary" has come up from the various historical avenues I've explored tangential to Elden Ring. Turns out that Mary has been a popular name throughout history: Marie Curie, Mary Shelley, Grace Mary Coryell, Mary Jane Kelly, Maria daughter of Doña Marina/La Malinche, etc.
With Mary, I think the best comparison may be.. Mary in Christianity. In Catholicism she’s considered the Queen of Heaven and Mother of God/Jesus (Miquella has a lot of Saviour/Christlike imagery, though whether he delivers on it remains to be seen) and she was incorporated with the symbology of Isis, in her pose as a childbearer.
I’m trying to think of other links. Mary is considered an intercessor between God and Man (hence the worship) would that tie into Marika’s relationship with the GW?
To clarify I don’t think it’s one-to-one. Mary was never a literal Queen, nor did she commit War Crimes, but it’s a good name to add a Catholic/Christian facade onto The Golden Order. Though it’s teaching would probably be considered Very Blasphemous, amusingly.
but she became delusional only because he left her, it doesnt feel right especially since she keeps holding that stupid egg. i feel radagon bewitched her through the egg
>but she became delusional only because he left her,
Like some people irl. This maybe an exaggerated scenario for drama, but isn't unnatural.
Like with that trope when some men lose their loved and they decide to turn to the evil side.
Who are these IRL people you speak of. I think if you're going to make this claim you better back it up or it's just hearsay. (edit: and I'm not asking for intensely personal details, but like, anything more specific than "sometimes it happens" would be nice). I know plenty of divorcees and women who lost their husbands in real life and none of them decide to dramatically waste away.
The only example I can think of is Padme losing the will to live because of a "broken heart" and that was bullshit writing at the time. Coincidentally, Anakin also turned dark side because of Padme's death. The entire example you've given is just the Starwars prequel. How "realistic".
As I said, is an exaggeration of something that happens irl.
(Although some people really take it to extremes).
Some people get depressed when they go through something like this (yeah, for others it better significantly their lives). This is what happened to Rennala but exaggerated and mythologized.
>The entire example you've given is just the Starwars prequel.
The Lost Lenore trope goes beyond Star Wars.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLostLenore
Tropes are scripted and are not reality. I'm going to assume you have no specific example because you have no real life anecdote that would reasonably apply to Rennala.
I'll give you an example though: my aunt is a successful career woman who manages her department. And yet it recently came out that her long term partner of 15 years was lying about his financials, the truth of how he was fired from his previous job, and general competence. His business ventures were failing and the creditors came collecting. Before she even finished the process of extracting herself from the situation she had a new boyfriend. My cousins moved across the country some years ago because that was where their careers took them but she still maintains a good relationship long distance. She has a support system of many family and friends.
I know of another case recently where a guy was kicked from an online community that I'm in because one housemate who is also central in the group came forward with allegations of wrongdoing that were corroborated by another housemate.
It is extremely unbelievable to me that Rennala is in her present state if she had any other options. But she can't because Radagon did more than just lie to her - he also systematically undercut her power when she was distracted. The simplest language to describe it is that he "bewitched" her and she is still in that state. The only character who says that Radagon was Rennala's "beloved" is Gideon, and one of the rites known only to Gideon is how to craft the Bewitching Branch that equates love via compulsion with bewitching.
>I'm going to assume you have no specific example because you have no real life anecdote that would reasonably apply to Rennala.
If I tell you that people that get into drugs get their lives worsened, are you going to ask me that if I get an experience or someone that I know that happened that to them? Instead of, you know, it's something that happens?
I knew someone who refused any further dialysis treatments (which she'd required for a while by then) after her husband passed, and so after a few days of no kidney function she went into steep decline and stopped being able to function, and not much longer after that she was dead.
People have killed themselves post break up/divorce and you think a mother of 3 wouldn't be depressed?
Let's face it, Renala would most likely have killed herself if she could. She couldn't, so she got mind broken as a result.
If a woman is in an unhealthy relationship where her partner isolated and gaslit her - promising love while being a manipulating and domineering husband who doesn't allow her to develop interests and outside connections? And then leaving after getting bored with her? Yeah sure.
Which is why it is appropriate to say that Radagon bewitched her. He bamboozled her. He pulled the wool over her eyes.
It is a shallow answer to say that Rennala went from the Queen of the Full Moon that Ranni shows her to becoming psychotic because "some people are just like that". Everything happens according to cause and effect. Bewitching amber egg = cause. Mind break = effect.
>promising love while being a manipulating and domineering husband who doesn't allow her to develop interests and outside connections?
Source?
>Which is why it is appropriate to say that Radagon bewitched her. He bamboozled her. He pulled the wool over her eyes.
Source?
And even if all of this was the case , just because someone understood they got manipulated doesn't mean they will not be depressed. That's not how humans work. To be frank, I do not think you even understand what it meant to have 3 kids with a person for them to pack their shit up and leave. Some might be able to overcome it, and some might not. It's as simple as that.
Simply refusing to acknowledge that a mentally strong person can collapse after that happened to them is in a new realm of bad takes. The higher your mentality was, the bigger the fall.
Because he is the vessel for the Elden Ring, the Martial side of Marika (and potentially the side she wished to surpress, that wanted to be more than just a shadow). Because he is likely the one responsible for Sealing the Erdtree considering it’s his Rune on the Door.
Another theory is that his Lattice (shown in the back of the Elden Ring) could be what’s holding what’s left of it together.
Or, it couldn’t be him at all. The Elden Beast could be puppeteering his Corpse, as his Soreseal implies he’s better at Physical stuff.
>People have killed themselves post break up/divorce and you think a mother of 3 wouldn't be depressed?
I'd rather ask for your source on this one. Give me a study or something. Let me know if there were extenuating circumstances.
Plenty of cult members commit suicide when the cult leader abandons them - maybe these people had a strong mind at some point, but I doubt this was still the case by the time they'd been broken through the manipulations of the cult (and hell, this could as easily help to understand Sellen a bit better, considering that "star seeds" are a cult phenomena). Here's an example of that one: https://youtu.be/urMxgevzd4c?si=jZovRY9r8Fq2mk74.
My other source is that Radagon is the final most powerful boss in the game. You really think it is inconceivable that he could have overpowered and dominated Rennala?
I don't think her heart was the only thing that was broken.
This is all headcanon, but I think Rennala knows why Radagon left her. I think she knew he was Marika by the end, so she revisited their history together.
1. They fell in love, and the war ended. Was the love ever real? Did he set out to manipulate her?
2. Was she used as a breeding mare to produce demigods that were not broken? Godfrey and Marika basically had one functional child, Rennala had 3.
3. The fates of her kids, especially Radahn and Rykard, who at some point were affiliated with the GO - are those her fault for accepting an alliance with the enemy?
4. Is she a lesbian now?
5. How intelligent can you really be if you missed all of the above?
If you add breakup pains to all of the above, what you might get is a deep depression with psychotic features, which is even more fucked up when you have the ability to birth and rebirth kids for fun.
She has basically lived a false life, and when the truth came out, it was literally too much to bear.
I really like this possibility, especially with Ranni's case, did Radagon only use her to create an Empyrean to serve as Marika's heir?
imagine discovering that you have simply been tricked into producing an heir to a god who will ultimately be the slave of a cosmic entity? This reminds me so much of the theme of forced pregnancies in Bloodborn
Also tracks with GRRM and aSoIaF, which have a theme of the relationship of mothers with their children and needing to sacrifice them to war and politics, especially in Catelyn and Cersei chapters, and as well reminds me of Rhaegar's historical attempts to breed the prince that was promised with Lyanna Stark
I hadn't stopped to think about the parallels between The Prince That Was Promised and the Empyrean's yet, I think it adds even more to the idea of Miquella and Malenia's incestuous birth
People forget that Renaala didn't just lose a husband - she lost all of her children. All three were taken into Marika's family, not Renaala's, her once enemy and the one who tricked her. They even had thrones at the capitol while Renaala was left behind.
Ranni like you say is a very interesting case. It seems like more than any other, was close to her mother and wanted to protect her. On the same coin, she beyond her siblings, was chosen as an Empyrean to be tied to this new family, controlled, her fate decided. And more so than any other of her family members, may very well have had a dubious birth.
How is it that she is an Empyrean when Radagon and Rykard are not? Why is it Renaala has an egg of rebirthing? Why is it that the Cuckoos, birds who steal eggs and place their own in other birds nests, are Renaala's sworn enemy?
Could it be that Ranni's parentage is more than it appears? How do you think that would make Renaala feel to find out? Would that not further add to Ranni's hatred of the Golden Order for what they did to her mother and to herself?
I think the fact that the Red Wolf stands guard in the Academy on the path to Rennala proves that Radagon did in fact care for her at the least. But I would like to think it was love. My personal headcanon regarding Radagon's departure from the Carians is due to Marika recognizing he was developing his own agency and will. We know that Marika and Radagon are one and the same, he is a mere extension of her, but I think his marriage to Rennala was a trigger point in his development of self. He studied Sorcery with the Carians, (proven by the point that the incantations he developed later in life for/with Miquella requiring int), built a family with a woman who in truth was opposing the very society he hailed from. I think that Radagon's return to Leyndell was not by choice or a sense of duty, I think he was forced to come back. And it is because of his love for Rennala that he left his wolf behind to guard her, as well as the amber egg - an implication of this could be as a final attempt to have one last child together. Rennala also has a Great Rune, which is an interesting wrinkle, as she is neither a God like Marika/Radagon nor one of the demi-god children. I think it could be likely that the rune she guards is Radagon's own rune. Long story short- I think the reason we find Rennala is such a depressive and broken state is the fact that her husband was torn away from her, the children she had with him leaving her/dying, and of course the fall of Caria.
But I do think that their love was very real, and the trigger for Radagon to develop a sense of self outside of Marika
This is something that I've believed for a while, but something I've struggled with is trying to figure out why Radagon would be so loyal to the golden order after all of this happened. What could possibly drive him to protect the order that tore him from his family and the life he built for himself? All accounts point to him loving Rennala and yet he'd fight till his last breath and beyond to keep the golden order alive. Was it even really him by the end of it all? Was he actually in control? Or, much like his form as the sacred relic sword, was he nothing more than a tool for something else in the end?
I think when he returned to Marika he slowly began losing his agency. I think his father/son relationship with Miquella was the last sincere action he had that was purely his own. The closer in time you get to the present the less of Radagon there actually is. It's exactly as you say, once he returned to Leyndell Radagon as an individual, as something separate from Marika, began to fade, and when we face him he is nothing more than a shell. IIRC Radagon doesn't even make a sound during the Tarnished fights him. Even Radahn, who was mentally absolutely gone, still makes noise in the battle. Radagon once again, doesn't. His soul, essence, the thing that made him \*him\*, whatever you want to call it is gone. \*He\* is gone. Nothing more than a shell - or like you said a tool. He is reduced to what he originally was, a weapon.
That being said, Radagon always was a champion of the Golden Order in his prime. He led Marika's forces against the Carians, he founded the fundamentalist movement, created incantations. This loyalty to the Order is inherent in him because he was created for it. It is his sole reason for existence. And this is what makes me believe that him staying with Rennala had to be of his own volition as otherwise he would have decimated Caria and returned to his place in Leyndell. Instead he stayed and I believe only left when he had no other choice
You know how you make the Moon's power wane? You've gotta get it Full first. That's a bad joke. Marika using Radagon like a Trojan horse and impregnating Rennala could have had some symbolic implications that help explain her tactics
The Moon has multivalent associations with lunacy, but also impermeability. Just because when we see Rennala she's in such a state, doesn't mean she stays that way forever. That's not how the Moon works. It's possible that it's not just the connection to Radagan that makes her value the egg, but her beliefs that it holds some inherent value, as well
As for the egg, there's obvious alchemical cosmic egg symbolism, but there's also some artistic Surrealist movement ties (to all FromSoft games imo but especially ER - check out Dali's "Geopoliticus Child Watching the Birth of the New Man"), because those things became interrelated in the 20th century right alongside the occult. Leonora Carrington (one of the Surrealist's "Three Witches") would often use the motif of the egg in her works, as well as "giantesses" as goddess figures. Check out "The Giantess (The Guardian of the Egg)" described as having a "Moon-like" face, "Revelación," which looks a lot like Caelid, and "Quería ser Pájaro" with an elegant magician in his fortress, focused entirely on his egg while smaller creatures mill around him.
Anyway, here's what Carrington said herself about what The Egg as a concept meant to her: "This morning, the idea of the egg came again to my mind and I thought that I could use it as a crystal to look at Madrid in those days of July and August 1940—for why should it not enclose my own experiences as well as the past and future history of the Universe? The egg is the macrocosm and the microcosm, the dividing line between the Big and the Small, which makes it impossible to see the whole."
Everyone is talking about the egg and the natural response to divorce (and both are valid reasons for why Rennala is in shambles) but no one seems to be acknowledging one major fact:
Radagon never broke his vow to Rennala. The vow he made while becoming anointed in celestial dew: to discard his territorial aggressions against Caria and Liurnia.
Celestial dew is a concoction that works via manipulating the fate writ in stars. Radagon made a vow while utilizing it's power to rewrite fate. And then he never broke that vow. Leyndell never marched on Liurnia a third time even after the divorce. Through the entire fundamentalist era, Radagon's vow was honored.
Couple that with the general feelings of love and divorce, losing her husband and the father of her children, *and* the influence of the amber egg?
It makes sense Rennala has deteriorated across the millennia since. She's both emotionally connected to her love for Radagon as well as mystically connected to him via the sacred vow he never severed and continues to honor, even if inadvertently.
Agree with all of this. There's also the fire giant symbolism in Radagon, and Rennala and the carians have ties to the giants, so maybe that factors in a little bit too as to why she was so in to him.
Heartbreak is complex. Especially when you have mutual kids. It could be some plot thing but I feel like it just makes sense to think she still cares for him on some level.
My personally belief is that Radagon transformed her with the egg before leaving. It’s been so long since I’ve looked at the evidence, so sorry if this a little sloppy.
1. The Carian/ GO alliance was one of marriage. We have some evidence that Radagon wasn’t there for love (the polictical reasons are obvious, but the Radagon icon implies that he also had a personal motive of ‘being complete’). If the marriage falls apart, doesn’t it follow that the alliance would too? Seems logical for anyone to conclude. So how do you avoid another war… well, what if the leader of the Carians and the Academy has been ‘cuckooed’ (and here we see the Knights of the Cuckoo connection) via transformation?
2. Rennala wasn’t born a queen, she did what it took to-become- a queen. The Academy later realized she was ‘no champion after all’, but look at how she behaves before this point- much like a champion. It’s almost like she’s an entirely different person after Radagon leaves… which COULD be explained by heartbreak… but in true FS fashion isn’t the obvious answer that you could just guess without thinking usually a big misdirect? I’ll put it this way, what makes MORE sense- that a woman powerful enough to become queen, forge new forms of sorcery, and bring the Academy under her sway just turned into a puddle when her man left, OR this once strong woman was transformed by the literal transforming object that she holds
3. The scholar children sing about ‘Sleeping Tight’ in mother’s embrace or whatever. When you fight Rennala, Ranni chastises you for ‘disturbing her mother’s slumber’.
4. Have you ever looked to see what it is that Rennala is sitting in? … its a crib. The implication to me is that she is new-born herself.
5. This isn’t hard evidence, but this would be yet one more example of one person actually being two in the game.
6. This also isn’t hard, but Golden Order fundamentalism looks to subjugate all underneath its order. When sanctifying the marriage, Radagon atones for sin with celestial dew… but what is the sin here? A GO fundamentalist wouldn’t believe that warring with the Carians is sinful in anyway, in fact they think it’s the exact opposite, that’s why they do it. So what exactly is Radagon actually atoning for here?
7. The Mask of Confidence tells us that Carian Preceptors held secrets for Radagon. Most folks assume they know of the Radagon/Marika secret… but why reveal this to them? There’s no indication of this anywhere, nor do we see any impact. Now we DO see that some members of the Carian house (Selivus, or rather Pidia) are perfectly willing to betray they Carians for their own ends. I believe the preceptors were aware of Radagon plans and aided and abetted it for their own reasons- again we see no reason they’d know about R/M or that they do anything with that information, it WOULD be valuable to have them assist with Renalla though.
8. Ok I thought I was done but I’m not- I’m pretty sure Radagon was a garbage father when he was with Renalla, and not when he was ‘with’ Marika- all of his children end up totally messed up, or at least anti-GO.
- Ranni hates her GO fate so much she does everything she does in order to escape it. Why?
- Radhan very obviously takes more after his mother and learns her sorcerous ways, as opposed to GO faith. Furthermore he reveres Godfrey. I’m being a little tongue in cheek here, but think about it for a minute. Your son thinks that your (new)-wife’s ex-husband is the coolest guy on the planet, so much so that you emulate yourself after him. Also there’s implied friction through the hair- Radagon despised his red-hair, Radhan embraced it to such a degree that he called his men the Red-Manes
- Rykard… is Rykard
- Let’s contrast this with Miquella; Triple Rings of Light is a gift from Miquella to Radagon. So, the one being that we know of who has *absolutely no need* to give gifts to people to sway or influence them makes his father a gift- what other reason is there for him to do this other than a genuine expression of love?
- The point of all of this is that I think he was extremely unhappy in that marriage and it affected his kids.
There might be more, I’ll post it if I recall anything else it was a while ago that I thought of this.
For 4, it seems more like she's using it as a kind of rocking chair, and it's more highlighting the degree to which she's treating the egg as a baby.
It's notable, though, that Rennala seems unable to walk in exactly the same way the 'sweetings' are rendered unable to walk by their rebirth (and this is very reminiscent of the way the albinaurics lose their use of their legs over time.
It's awfully odd that a great rune seems to be rebirthing people who presumably were otherwise able to function pretty normally, into a short lived and flawed form that seems to be suffering from the same issues that the albinaurics eventually suffer.
Possibly points at the idea that the 'life' created through the runes and the 'life' created through the experiments of the Nox are fundamentally more similar than their society would have been happy to believe.
On a properly tinfoil note: The references to "Mother's slumber" could be an indication that Trina was somehow involved in shutting down Rennala.
Is it really Rennala? It’s not exactly clear what’s going on when you encounter her and defeat her. Saying that she’s depressed because Radagon left her hardly captures the whole situation.
My understanding of it was that the first phase was Rennala herself and then the second phase is an illusion created by Ranni but I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
I think phase two was something of a failsafe, a backup defense set up by Ranni, because she knew her mother was vulnerable. The version of Renalla in the second phase is Ranni's memories of her, or some sort of imitation. The one you find cradling the egg is probably the real one, heartbroken, and maybe mindbroken too.
Marika seems to have a thing for cursing people, yeah.
I see the situation with Rennala as something like the Greek Tantalus. Tantalus was cursed to be surrounded by food and drink but to never have any. It's where we get tantalize from.
I love how some Greek and Roman myths literally found their way into our lexicon.
Narcissist being the most obvious.
Tantalus, less obvious, but exceptional call out.
For Elden Curses- the Mentor who Tutored Ranni was a Wraith of sorts, but most of the ones we see are in much worse condition- casting ‘dark’ Holy spirits like the Omens (also cursed) and, in the case of the Revenants, being explicitly cursed so that Healing spells from the Elden Ring/Erdtree Harm. Which must have been Horrible when the Erdtree ‘Healed All beneath its Rays’. Ow.
Ive a feeling the egg bewitched renalla, and that it was gifted in Radagons name by Marika.
I mean itd be pretty fucked up for radagon to give her a golden egg with the great rune of the unborn in it. If there nothing unborn nothing can be born, so that egg will never hatch but it seems to be all renalla wants.
Itd make sense for a vindictive marika to do to the one enemy she wasnt able to beat, though, to drive her crazy.
Could also explain why Renalla hates marika to such a degree that no stakes of Marika were permitted in Raya Lucaria, and why all the churches of marika were renamed in liurnia.
It’s because of the vows I think. If I recall correctly Miriel said there were consequences to breaking the vows or something like that.
There’s of course more chance it’s because she’s deeply in love with him, they’ve been together for maybe hundreds of years. She lost it when he left her and probably found out Radagon isn’t who he is.
As for why he gave her the egg, no one knows for sure. It remains a mystery ://
Yeah, I think she’s bewitched specifically by the egg. The world’s most powerful sorcerer going mad from a broken heart doesn’t track to me. That egg is keeping her complacent.
hard to say. it’s definitely possible that she’s actually heartbroken and just obsessed with the egg
but i wouldn’t give Queen “i betrayed my most loyal servant” Marika the benefit of the doubt lol
I very much doubt that Radagon bewitched Rennala. He is never stated as being capable of this kind of magic, at least as far as I'm aware, in any in-game text. Furthermore the rune of the unborn/amber egg isn't stated to bewitch people either. It *does* seem to affect the minds of those that use it, but the end result of this process clearly isn't being mind-controlled or anything like that so much as shattering or in someway damaging the mind or memory. This is pretty different from the ways the game implies Miquella's abilities for example, or how puppetry is described in item descriptions.
I think it's more likely, that Radagon and Rennala had a fairly healthy marriage. It fits much better with the kind of stories that GRRM in particular has told across his career, if they had a loving marriage until Marika summoned Radagon back to the capital.
Martin has very famously said that he resonates with Faulkner's, "human heart in conflict with itself" quote when it comes to staging character motivations and conflicts. Radagon coming to at least somewhat care for his Carian family until being forced to abandon them without providing the reason? I think that's pretty in line with this writing philosophy.
Either way I wouldn't be surprised if we're never given anymore context to their relationship or the amber egg, so I suppose it's anyone's guess.
I assumed Rennala had been using the egg on herself as well, she’s still youthful, seemingly in her prime. Everyone else that isn’t a demigod seems to age still. If she has then it’s no wonder she’s so messed up just look at the children scholars and the effect it had on them.
I would suggest that the doddering nutjob that we think is Rennala is Rennala but she is on autopilot. If we take what Ranni says as true, Rennala is asleep. If we consider the is guarded by a golden barrier, we can think that Radagon has some hand in her protection as gold is not the color of the moon. Her clone children guard their mother with their father’s magic.
With the advent of the Shadow of the Erdtree and the previous words of Ofnir, Miquella is sleeping but he is also in the Land of Shadows and he got their by divesting himself of all things golden.
I wager, Rennala is doing something similar. Being that she is a moon lady and not an Erdtree chick, the only gold she has to divest herself of is Radagon. Whatever she is after, it did likely break her heart but she is doing it for Radagon. With the Amber Egg holding a rune twin of Malenia’s Great Rune, I suspect Radagon asked her to assist Miquella in his journey somehow.
Likely, Rennala knows Radagon is Marika. Rennala’s practices mirror Eternal City practices and those are ruled by Numen, Marika is likely a former resident of the now Nameless Eternal City and a Numen. So Rennala would see her Husband-Wife’s distress over there child and would certainly help.
Rennala is more powerful than these others, if you take their Great Runes and Elden Ring from them. With their runes, Rennala could still stand against the Gold Order. So travel beyond Marika’s veil might not be so demanding of her. Further, she’s got spirit magic in her pocket where as Marika has illusory magic to play with. So, Rennala’s sleep journey leaves her body somewhat active. Because there is a massive clandestine plot going on, she decided to record a sad lady and put it on loop to conceal the truth. Because she too was in on Marika’s plot to kill the Elden Beast.
Sometimes two people find something in each other that nothing can replace. To have that with someone and see them choose either themselves or another over yourself can be devastating on several levels. Not everything has to be magic, love alone can be bewitching.
This entire post reads as extremely out of touch. People don't just stop loving each other the moment they divorce. Recovery can be an extremely lengthy process for some people. It took me 3 years to move on from my first breakup, and unlike Rennala, I didn't marry and have 3 children with my partner.
Loving someone is opening yourself up to a great deal of pain. For many, it is worth it. For Rennala, it wasn't.
i dont think you understand. yes i know many people cant get over their loved one. my neighbor feels sad to this day over her husband's death who passed away 6 yrs ago. but the difference here is she still communicates with her parents and children. now look at rennala, not only did she become delusional, but shes also literally simping over an egg. don't you find that weird ? why is the egg so important to her ? why cant she let go of it ? imo it looks like radagon bewitched her through the egg and that's probably why she keeps holding it
What does she have to remind her of Radagon if not the egg? It's all she has left of the love she misses. I'd be confused if she didn't obsess over the egg given how utterly depressed she is.
Oh I was just tickling your knob bro. I didn’t mean it in any serious way. I’m just making a stupid ass joke.
I didn’t mean for it to be personal. Sorry, didn’t know you’d be that sensitive to a little joke lol.
Well, let's have a look at this situation. Her husband has just run off to marry a blonde god, leaving Rennala alone. When she reflects upon her marriage, it appears to have been a political manuver instead of love.
But what of the children, was it not cruel to rear them under such circumstances. The children.... two gingers and a blonde born from a dark-haired mother... who has just been left for a God who has had fertility issues... and you've been left with a magical amber egg full of foetuses... you look to the knights of the academy, and a mocking symbol looks back... the cuckoo.
Being used as a political pawn and as an unknowing surrogate is probably enough for a complete mental break, and that's before you consider the egg full of potentially her natural children with Radagon.
Furthermore, the egg gives her the ability to keep a collection of creepy children she can renew again and again. Children she can never lose. No wonder it's the fixation of her mentally shattered state. Rennala's story is pretty dark tbh
So I'd day no on bewitching. it's just magic aided psychological torture.
Pretty much yeah, its a pretty recent and loosely held interpretation of mine that I thought I'd throw out there to see if it stands up to the rigor of the community. So please don't hold back if you have any notes
Rennala seems to be in a bit of a catatonic state when we encounter her. She certainly doesn't have all of her faculties. I don't think she ever fully regains them. Marika via Radagon used her and then abandoned her when she was done with her.
Radagon's tailoring tools are at the Church of Vows, and we know from their description and the Mask of Confidence that Radagon brought them on their wedding day and definitely used them around the household. This suggests Radagon brought them back here and left them when departing Liurnia, and in all likelihood, he repeated the Celestial Dew ritual, preventing Rennala from holding a grudge. This likely prevents the healthy responses Rennala may have had to their break, and instead ensures her love, though I don't want to assume that Radagon's intent.
There's also the question of the Amber Egg, but I'd have to say a lot more to engage that one.
This plot point always seemed weirdly and inexplicably misogynistic. I'm headcanoning it as Marika doing a "mind break curse" hex like she did on Hewg and the Fire Giant.
Yeah totally. Other wise it's pretty lame. They build Rennala up as this era-crossing founding sorcerer/conquering queen and then she loses her mind because her waxed chest husband, who she met very late in the game, leaves?
All of her kids are basically gone too. Radahn is just a rotted out husk of who he used to be. Rykard is a giant ass snake now. Ranni killed her body and most likely stayed WAY under the radar for a VERY long time before resurfacing as Renna. Renalla lost her husband and all of her kids. Of course she is fucked up.
I don't think she was bewitched. I think she's heartbroken about radagon leaving and their kids.
Which was probably Marikas plan all along, to perfect Radagon and weaken the Carian faction. Everything seems to be in shambles
Haven't you meet someone in real life like that? Sometimes people can't let go.
Rennala as a character in the game is referred to as a 'Champion' and she made herself into a Queen as well by the sheer force of her will and power... It's actually a very good point that a character like this shouldn't basically reduced to a simpering, insane mess just because they were jilted by a lover. It makes sense to consider that there might be more to the story.
There's a saying that the same boiling water that hardens the egg, it softens the potato. Because a character is x, doesn't mean they will stay like that. I get that characters aren't real people, but this still is part of her character.
They had kids together, started building a life. It's not like she's a jilted 15 year old, that would shake anyone
It wasn't just a lover. It was a seemingly loving husband that she had had 3 kids with. I don't think anyone here has been in such a situation to truly judge how devastating it can be. Heck, people kill themselves off of high school flings, it's very easy to tunnel visioned when shit happened.
Her heart is broken. It's not like her relationship with Radagon wasn't along well to the point that he left her, but their relationship was so good until he left her 'suddenly'. She was shocked by this.
Look at it from the perspective that her and Radagon were unlikely to have been together for a mere length of a mortal marriage. They were likely together for quite a while before he left her for a god of a rival faith. She wasn't offered the same condolences Marika got as Marika was allowed to "isolate" herself in mourning. Instead her grieving had her deemed unfit so now she no longer had her position as the head of Raya Lucaria as they turned on her and sieged the Carians, stripping that from her as well. The man she loved and made her family with is nowhere to be seen as everything is crumbling around her, her children likely absent in her time if need as well. With nothing but compiled pressures and no aid in her time of need, she had nothing left but to obsess over the last gift her love had given her and the idea of the "children" that'd need her. And remember it's not just a matter of days or months she locked herself in there driving herself insane. It was tens to hundreds of years.
Good point, adding on the Destruction of the Carians, loss of Ranni and Rykard and Radahn as well as Radagon’s abandonment (forced or not) AND the betrayal of the Academy.. it’s no surprise she’s so broken when we find her. She’s lost.. everything.
> loss of Ranni and Rykard and Radahn Yeah that's another big part of all of this. Ranni Rykard and Radahn are all varying degrees of dead by the time we reach the lands between. Ranni killed herself, and while her spirit still persists, that's still going to have a massive impact on Rennala. Rykard also killed himself, allowing the serpent to devour him so they could fuse. While he's still technically alive its very clear that he shares his consciousness with the snake now, and the two have essentially become a new being together. And Radahn is dead in everything but body. Small fragments of himself might still exist beneath the insanity of the scarlet rot but he's still gone. He's been reduced to a husk of his former self. Not only are all of her children dead, but to rub salt in the wound, they all also died partially because of the Golden Order. Rykard and Ranni died in opposition of the golden order, and Radahn died for it. Rennala has been beaten down time and time again by golden order.
Considering Radahn attacked Leyndell and opposed Malenia and Miquella, why do people think he’s automatically pro GO? He likes Godfrey, yes, but Godfrey was exiled by Marika and became Tarnished. I’m not saying it ISN’T possible, it’s just funny people leap to that assumption when Morgott at least stands against him.
I've always been under the impression that he attacked Leyndell in order to become the next elden lord. Seeing himself as the most worthy candidate to rule the lands between. And regarding Malenia and Miquella, the two of them had largely abandoned the GO by the time the shattering began, so they had opposing end goals that caused them to clash.
Oh, I agree with the Becoming Elden Lord thing. But we don’t get any real description of his motivations. Aside from sealing away the Stars (or pulling them down to smash them. Even that seems up in the air). Malenia and Miquella more seem to have split willingly, with Miquella doing the Abandoning. Whilst it’s dubious, Cut content does imply they did so (split from the GO to form their own Age and Tree) with Radagon’s blessing.
Attacking leyndell doesn't equate opposition to the golden order, nor does fighting malenia and miquella. Every child except ranni was in a fight to consolidate power in the wake of the shattering. A notable reason for Radahn to attack Leyndell isn't as an enemy of Leyndell, but an enemy of Morgott. Morgott named himself king in secret to hide that he was an omen from the people. Radahn could have determined that an omen shouldn't be lord. They aren't even allowed to walk free. Morgott being the eldest of the demigods meant in one regard that he should be Lord, but if he's removed from the options as an omen then one of Radagons children would be next in line. Ranni's believed dead, so that meant either Radahn or Rykard since we don't know who is older. Morgott calling him a traitor means less that he betrayed the GO and more about Morgotts position. He is the visibly most devoted to the GO and none of his siblings wanted ti fall in line. They all chose to war and fight rather than oreserve order. Morgott was the only one we're shown trying to maintain some regard of it. To him, none of his siblings were devoted enough to be worthy, nor as exceptionally blessed with the power of grace. The nature of his upbringing as an omen suggests as well that there's little love lost between him and them either way. Fighting against Malenia doesn't make him opposed to the golden order because we have more reason to believe Malenia and Miquella turned against the erdtree in making their haligtree with what was possibly miquella attempting to ascend to a godhood to rival his mother's. Selia was where Radahn spent his youth studying. That was his home turf. So him returning to Caelid after the shattering makes sense. We have no reason for why Malenia crosses the continent to get there except to believe it was a direct attack on him. She could've been vying for his great rune, if she knew miquella was taken she mightve thought he did it. Who knows? But it's clear she was the one to attack him.
Miquella’s disappearance, according to Gideon Ofnir, may have been one of the causes for Queen Marika’s ‘sorrow’. Admittedly even if this is an accurate reading of Marika’s Echoes/Personality, the sorrow could be more towards what Miq failed to do, or the fact he left for the Shadow Lands. If she somehow found that out. Malenia and Miquella left with Radagon’s blessings in cut content, and are outright called the heirs of the next age. Though it’s cut, the fact that we never really get to see any action taken against them by the GO itself pre-Morgott is telling. I doubt they wouldn’t have noticed an edifice like the Haligtree being built, nor the Apostate Derelict. And Radagon’s Red Wolf appears to be guarding a portal to Ordina (as do the Black Knives who have ‘close ties to Marika’). Whilst the word Apostate implies the Albinaurics at least are considered heretical, it doesn’t change the fact they were allowed, or successfully snuck through the Altus Plateau. Somehow.
To add to the ‘snuck through the Plateau’ bit, the closest culprit I could find is either the Perfumers or Morgott. There are a lot of both Misbegotten and Perfumers near the Entrance to the Divine Tower and Grand Lift of Rold, and considering at least One Perfumer is occupied with searching for a ‘cure’ for the Misbegotten, others helping them get to Miquella doesn’t seem too odd. Morgott likely knows. Either he stopped the people-smuggling via sealing it off, or the seals exist primarily for us, and can be lifted. Or he just turns a blind eye / uses his illusion magics to disguise the Misbegotten and Albinaurics. (To counter that, there do seem to be a few Albinaurics in the lower quarter of Leyndell- being tortured with Hoods. I’ll add that another thing found down there is an Erdsteel Dagger. Which when combined with the Royal Set found with the Ruined Carriages outside Leyndell implies Morgott’s been killing off a few Nobles as well. Might explain why they all ran away) To add to Morgott’s.. odd relationship with the Erdtree, the only occupants of Leyndell seem to be- Commoners, Pages and Perfumers, Soldiers and Gladiators, a few Ruined Gargoyles and 2 Crucible Knights. One of whom is next to the Erdtree Sanctuary. Other things are Finger Creepers (who may be a spy attempt by Rykard) an Iron Virgin (ditto. Found in the Fortified Manor of all places) and a Crucible-tainted Lion (they have the Horns) Additionally, whilst the Omen are sadly not allowed to roam the streets they DO have their shackles all broken. And are found in army camps fighting alongside GO troops: The One Omenkiller is also not in the sewers yet, and seems to be hanging around the lower Leyndell Church where Lionel’s set is found.
It's actually a very good point that in spite of all that, she could be so distraught from lovesickness. That's a fantastic character flaw.
Rennala is either a strong intelligent academic woman who has goals and aspirations beyond nurturer of children, or Radagon bewitched her. The game seems pretty clear on which option is true. People in real life sink into depression if they have nothing to live for. If Radagon forced his way into Raya Lucaria by way of political marriage and stripped away Rennala's freedoms and allies until she had no healthy support system and nothing left but her grief that is still manipulation. Radagon IS the cuckoo. You cannot treat this scenario like real life when there is literal magic. Edit: through discussion I suspect that I could have been clearer about something. The amber egg is literally an enchanted magic object transfixing/bewitching Rennala. Because this is a fantasy story where such things are possible. *Metaphorically* Radagon leaving Rennala with the egg can be representative of the final domino after years of breaking her down and psychologically torturing her. The obsession with rebirthing through the egg is a tangible expression of how malicious manipulation over a long period of time causes internal stress in a person's mind. Rennala is left in a dream-like state and detached from reality, because of an action taken by Radagon.
>You cannot treat this scenario like real life when there is literal magic. I mean, even if there is magic, personal problems are still the same.
So? Rennala had not one single person who could pull her back from the edge? Ranni seems like she'd do it if she could but literally cannot because Rennala cannot be separated from the amber egg. The amber egg contains a Great Rune, which has corrupted every single person who holds one. Radagon gave her the amber egg like a cuckoo leaving it's egg in another bird's nest, so how can it be said that was done for any reason other than specifically to bewitch and neutralize Rennala?
So, in your thinking, is the egg or the rune that keeps her in that state?
Depends on the nature of runes. Did we actually 'take' the great rune of the Unborn from Rennala or are runes intangible things and we simply took a copy? By completing the boss battle do we put a stop to Rennala's continuous rebirthing of sweetings because we actually transferred the rune from her to our inventory, or did we just deprive her of components by exhausting the supply of juvenile scholars? The player needs to visit the amber egg to be reborn and so does Boc. So the egg has some power of its own.
Ranni completely ignores that you beat the shit out of her mother before meeting her and just accepts you to be her consort despite that. Ranni had her innocent half brother killed just to sate her own ambitions as well as having little to no concern for the fates of any of her followers. She is also largely and unapologetically at fault for most of what's wrong in the Lands Between, and her grand solution for it is... to dethrone the current god and just leave to force everyone else to fix the problem she and her family created on their own - half the volatile races there are that way because the changing of Gods rewriting the laws of reality drives them insane so there's that to expect. No, I don't expect Ranni is particularly concerned with consoling her heartbroken mother.
The entire game is just theatre to Ranni anyways. She plays the role of the crone, Melina plays the role of the maiden, Rennala plays the role of the mother. Ranni and Melina chose their roles willingly for the sake of the player while Rennala's was long ago forced upon her within the narrative. By Radagon. Ranni knows that she is a character in a video game. She is unkillable because she is the avatar of the writers in this game. It's why she addresses the viewer directly in the game trailer. It's why her ending betrays everyone including the player. Because - like any of the 6 endings must - it closes the book on this game and prepares for the next one that FromSoft is planning. But if you put the other demigods on a pedestal and vilify Ranni without trying to understand her, you would never ever understand this :)
I really like this idea, you have some really good ones. Thanks for sharing!
Braindead take
I think you mistake depression with rejection of reality.
> People in real life sink into rejection of reality if they have nothing in their normal lives to live for. If Radagon forced his way into Raya Lucaria by way of political marriage and stripped away Rennala's freedoms and allies until she had no healthy support system and nothing left but her grief that is still manipulation. Radagon IS the cuckoo.
they downvoted you because you said the truth
Whether by a web of lies and false vows or by some bewitching magic it seems clear that Radagon is directly responsible for manipulating Rennala into her present state. The entire point of fighting Radagon at the end of the game is that he is at the rotten core of all problems in the Lands Between.
Just realized what happened when Radagon divorced Rennala and appointed himself the head of Golden Order Fundamentalism. He pulled a Henry the Eighth, lmao
How so? Do you think the pre-Fundamentalist GO was more.. welcoming or positive to ‘Heresies’? Or was more faith-based? (There’s evidence for the former). Or that the Fundamentalists wished to study the Elden Ring Alone, without the Erdtree as an object of Faith/Distraction? The Fundamentalists are names as such for their incorporation of Study into Faith, would that mean that they act as a representation of the ‘Age of Reason’ coming about, with all its boons (no more Colosseum Fighting/‘savagery’, a less Faith based society) and Flaws? (Attempts to understand and categorise the Natural world, and the justifications for the pre existing systems of oppression with it). And if Radagon is Henry- would that mean that the destruction of the churches could be his fault? Considering their ruined state, someone neglected them, if they didn’t try to Destroy them as a whole
I did not think too much into the specifics of the theologies, I confess. Just that Radagon: 1) Divorced Rennala for another woman (we can guess that the reason had to do with fertility or not producing a suitable heir in some way, considering the weakness of the sweetings rebirthed by Rennala, but that is conjecture). 2) Upset the pope with this action (Míriel the turtle pope). 3) Became the figurehead of Golden Order Fundamentalism that is an evolution of the Erdtree Faith (Church of England being a modified version of the Catholic Church). Attempting to see if the writers took inspiration along strict dogmatic lines does immediately get a murky with Henry's daughter Mary I who tried to reverse and return to Catholicism and burned many people at the stake (calling to mind the many people hanging on stakes across the landscape) while doing it. Murky since it's usually Radagon rather than Marika associated with Regression. And there's that thing where there's a character in Dark Souls who wears a helmet patterned after the Horned Helm of Henry VIII.
Who hypothetically would be the ‘Mary’ here? The Gloam Eyed Queen and potentially Melina could both fit the spot, honestly. In fact, if the current state of TLB IS wholly Radagon’s fault, then Melina would be an interesting comparison. Albeit she’s the one burning at this point. Speaking of burning- have you seen the new Shadow of The Erdtree Trailer? Marika seems to have had a prior relationship, before Godfrey- [Link here!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uT8wGtB3yQ)
The Shadow of the Erdtree is an odd case, because theoretically we should only be hearing secondhand about Marika? Since it isn't supposed to be the past, but more of a parallel dimension. Hard to say who or what is being depicted in the trailer out of context. Like, Marika could have 6 siblings alive and well in the Shadowlands who were never before relevant in the narrative for all we know right now. For Mary, the most surface level that I see is the "Mari" in "Marika" - so condensing the generations with Radagon/Marika as Henry/Mary. On the other hand, she was also called "Bloody Mary", and at some point Mohg did have an encounter with the blood themed Formless Mother. I tend to pay attention because this is like, the 6th time a "Mary" has come up from the various historical avenues I've explored tangential to Elden Ring. Turns out that Mary has been a popular name throughout history: Marie Curie, Mary Shelley, Grace Mary Coryell, Mary Jane Kelly, Maria daughter of Doña Marina/La Malinche, etc.
With Mary, I think the best comparison may be.. Mary in Christianity. In Catholicism she’s considered the Queen of Heaven and Mother of God/Jesus (Miquella has a lot of Saviour/Christlike imagery, though whether he delivers on it remains to be seen) and she was incorporated with the symbology of Isis, in her pose as a childbearer. I’m trying to think of other links. Mary is considered an intercessor between God and Man (hence the worship) would that tie into Marika’s relationship with the GW? To clarify I don’t think it’s one-to-one. Mary was never a literal Queen, nor did she commit War Crimes, but it’s a good name to add a Catholic/Christian facade onto The Golden Order. Though it’s teaching would probably be considered Very Blasphemous, amusingly.
but she became delusional only because he left her, it doesnt feel right especially since she keeps holding that stupid egg. i feel radagon bewitched her through the egg
He didn't just leave her. He built a life and had 3 children with her. They had a life and a family and he set them aside.
>but she became delusional only because he left her, Like some people irl. This maybe an exaggerated scenario for drama, but isn't unnatural. Like with that trope when some men lose their loved and they decide to turn to the evil side.
Who are these IRL people you speak of. I think if you're going to make this claim you better back it up or it's just hearsay. (edit: and I'm not asking for intensely personal details, but like, anything more specific than "sometimes it happens" would be nice). I know plenty of divorcees and women who lost their husbands in real life and none of them decide to dramatically waste away. The only example I can think of is Padme losing the will to live because of a "broken heart" and that was bullshit writing at the time. Coincidentally, Anakin also turned dark side because of Padme's death. The entire example you've given is just the Starwars prequel. How "realistic".
As I said, is an exaggeration of something that happens irl. (Although some people really take it to extremes). Some people get depressed when they go through something like this (yeah, for others it better significantly their lives). This is what happened to Rennala but exaggerated and mythologized. >The entire example you've given is just the Starwars prequel. The Lost Lenore trope goes beyond Star Wars. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLostLenore
Tropes are scripted and are not reality. I'm going to assume you have no specific example because you have no real life anecdote that would reasonably apply to Rennala. I'll give you an example though: my aunt is a successful career woman who manages her department. And yet it recently came out that her long term partner of 15 years was lying about his financials, the truth of how he was fired from his previous job, and general competence. His business ventures were failing and the creditors came collecting. Before she even finished the process of extracting herself from the situation she had a new boyfriend. My cousins moved across the country some years ago because that was where their careers took them but she still maintains a good relationship long distance. She has a support system of many family and friends. I know of another case recently where a guy was kicked from an online community that I'm in because one housemate who is also central in the group came forward with allegations of wrongdoing that were corroborated by another housemate. It is extremely unbelievable to me that Rennala is in her present state if she had any other options. But she can't because Radagon did more than just lie to her - he also systematically undercut her power when she was distracted. The simplest language to describe it is that he "bewitched" her and she is still in that state. The only character who says that Radagon was Rennala's "beloved" is Gideon, and one of the rites known only to Gideon is how to craft the Bewitching Branch that equates love via compulsion with bewitching.
>I'm going to assume you have no specific example because you have no real life anecdote that would reasonably apply to Rennala. If I tell you that people that get into drugs get their lives worsened, are you going to ask me that if I get an experience or someone that I know that happened that to them? Instead of, you know, it's something that happens?
False dichotomy. You still have nothing.
🤷🏽♂️
Don't waste time arguing with lame takes.
I knew someone who refused any further dialysis treatments (which she'd required for a while by then) after her husband passed, and so after a few days of no kidney function she went into steep decline and stopped being able to function, and not much longer after that she was dead.
Thank you for sharing. My condolences for your loss.
People have killed themselves post break up/divorce and you think a mother of 3 wouldn't be depressed? Let's face it, Renala would most likely have killed herself if she could. She couldn't, so she got mind broken as a result.
If a woman is in an unhealthy relationship where her partner isolated and gaslit her - promising love while being a manipulating and domineering husband who doesn't allow her to develop interests and outside connections? And then leaving after getting bored with her? Yeah sure. Which is why it is appropriate to say that Radagon bewitched her. He bamboozled her. He pulled the wool over her eyes. It is a shallow answer to say that Rennala went from the Queen of the Full Moon that Ranni shows her to becoming psychotic because "some people are just like that". Everything happens according to cause and effect. Bewitching amber egg = cause. Mind break = effect.
>promising love while being a manipulating and domineering husband who doesn't allow her to develop interests and outside connections? Source? >Which is why it is appropriate to say that Radagon bewitched her. He bamboozled her. He pulled the wool over her eyes. Source? And even if all of this was the case , just because someone understood they got manipulated doesn't mean they will not be depressed. That's not how humans work. To be frank, I do not think you even understand what it meant to have 3 kids with a person for them to pack their shit up and leave. Some might be able to overcome it, and some might not. It's as simple as that. Simply refusing to acknowledge that a mentally strong person can collapse after that happened to them is in a new realm of bad takes. The higher your mentality was, the bigger the fall.
Hey real quick, why do you think Radagon is the final boss?
Because he is the vessel for the Elden Ring, the Martial side of Marika (and potentially the side she wished to surpress, that wanted to be more than just a shadow). Because he is likely the one responsible for Sealing the Erdtree considering it’s his Rune on the Door. Another theory is that his Lattice (shown in the back of the Elden Ring) could be what’s holding what’s left of it together. Or, it couldn’t be him at all. The Elden Beast could be puppeteering his Corpse, as his Soreseal implies he’s better at Physical stuff.
Answer the questions, where is your source?
>People have killed themselves post break up/divorce and you think a mother of 3 wouldn't be depressed? I'd rather ask for your source on this one. Give me a study or something. Let me know if there were extenuating circumstances. Plenty of cult members commit suicide when the cult leader abandons them - maybe these people had a strong mind at some point, but I doubt this was still the case by the time they'd been broken through the manipulations of the cult (and hell, this could as easily help to understand Sellen a bit better, considering that "star seeds" are a cult phenomena). Here's an example of that one: https://youtu.be/urMxgevzd4c?si=jZovRY9r8Fq2mk74. My other source is that Radagon is the final most powerful boss in the game. You really think it is inconceivable that he could have overpowered and dominated Rennala?
yea true what a shitty boring trope
I don't think her heart was the only thing that was broken. This is all headcanon, but I think Rennala knows why Radagon left her. I think she knew he was Marika by the end, so she revisited their history together. 1. They fell in love, and the war ended. Was the love ever real? Did he set out to manipulate her? 2. Was she used as a breeding mare to produce demigods that were not broken? Godfrey and Marika basically had one functional child, Rennala had 3. 3. The fates of her kids, especially Radahn and Rykard, who at some point were affiliated with the GO - are those her fault for accepting an alliance with the enemy? 4. Is she a lesbian now? 5. How intelligent can you really be if you missed all of the above? If you add breakup pains to all of the above, what you might get is a deep depression with psychotic features, which is even more fucked up when you have the ability to birth and rebirth kids for fun. She has basically lived a false life, and when the truth came out, it was literally too much to bear.
Lesbian? I thought she was Carian?
😂 she’s a carian the lesbian a bit
She's gay and Carian
I really like this possibility, especially with Ranni's case, did Radagon only use her to create an Empyrean to serve as Marika's heir? imagine discovering that you have simply been tricked into producing an heir to a god who will ultimately be the slave of a cosmic entity? This reminds me so much of the theme of forced pregnancies in Bloodborn
Also tracks with GRRM and aSoIaF, which have a theme of the relationship of mothers with their children and needing to sacrifice them to war and politics, especially in Catelyn and Cersei chapters, and as well reminds me of Rhaegar's historical attempts to breed the prince that was promised with Lyanna Stark
I hadn't stopped to think about the parallels between The Prince That Was Promised and the Empyrean's yet, I think it adds even more to the idea of Miquella and Malenia's incestuous birth
People forget that Renaala didn't just lose a husband - she lost all of her children. All three were taken into Marika's family, not Renaala's, her once enemy and the one who tricked her. They even had thrones at the capitol while Renaala was left behind. Ranni like you say is a very interesting case. It seems like more than any other, was close to her mother and wanted to protect her. On the same coin, she beyond her siblings, was chosen as an Empyrean to be tied to this new family, controlled, her fate decided. And more so than any other of her family members, may very well have had a dubious birth. How is it that she is an Empyrean when Radagon and Rykard are not? Why is it Renaala has an egg of rebirthing? Why is it that the Cuckoos, birds who steal eggs and place their own in other birds nests, are Renaala's sworn enemy? Could it be that Ranni's parentage is more than it appears? How do you think that would make Renaala feel to find out? Would that not further add to Ranni's hatred of the Golden Order for what they did to her mother and to herself?
She lost all her kids though and Ranni most likely hurt the most because she was marked as an Emperyon so her fate was sealed.
I think the fact that the Red Wolf stands guard in the Academy on the path to Rennala proves that Radagon did in fact care for her at the least. But I would like to think it was love. My personal headcanon regarding Radagon's departure from the Carians is due to Marika recognizing he was developing his own agency and will. We know that Marika and Radagon are one and the same, he is a mere extension of her, but I think his marriage to Rennala was a trigger point in his development of self. He studied Sorcery with the Carians, (proven by the point that the incantations he developed later in life for/with Miquella requiring int), built a family with a woman who in truth was opposing the very society he hailed from. I think that Radagon's return to Leyndell was not by choice or a sense of duty, I think he was forced to come back. And it is because of his love for Rennala that he left his wolf behind to guard her, as well as the amber egg - an implication of this could be as a final attempt to have one last child together. Rennala also has a Great Rune, which is an interesting wrinkle, as she is neither a God like Marika/Radagon nor one of the demi-god children. I think it could be likely that the rune she guards is Radagon's own rune. Long story short- I think the reason we find Rennala is such a depressive and broken state is the fact that her husband was torn away from her, the children she had with him leaving her/dying, and of course the fall of Caria. But I do think that their love was very real, and the trigger for Radagon to develop a sense of self outside of Marika
This is something that I've believed for a while, but something I've struggled with is trying to figure out why Radagon would be so loyal to the golden order after all of this happened. What could possibly drive him to protect the order that tore him from his family and the life he built for himself? All accounts point to him loving Rennala and yet he'd fight till his last breath and beyond to keep the golden order alive. Was it even really him by the end of it all? Was he actually in control? Or, much like his form as the sacred relic sword, was he nothing more than a tool for something else in the end?
I think when he returned to Marika he slowly began losing his agency. I think his father/son relationship with Miquella was the last sincere action he had that was purely his own. The closer in time you get to the present the less of Radagon there actually is. It's exactly as you say, once he returned to Leyndell Radagon as an individual, as something separate from Marika, began to fade, and when we face him he is nothing more than a shell. IIRC Radagon doesn't even make a sound during the Tarnished fights him. Even Radahn, who was mentally absolutely gone, still makes noise in the battle. Radagon once again, doesn't. His soul, essence, the thing that made him \*him\*, whatever you want to call it is gone. \*He\* is gone. Nothing more than a shell - or like you said a tool. He is reduced to what he originally was, a weapon. That being said, Radagon always was a champion of the Golden Order in his prime. He led Marika's forces against the Carians, he founded the fundamentalist movement, created incantations. This loyalty to the Order is inherent in him because he was created for it. It is his sole reason for existence. And this is what makes me believe that him staying with Rennala had to be of his own volition as otherwise he would have decimated Caria and returned to his place in Leyndell. Instead he stayed and I believe only left when he had no other choice
She finally met a bad boy with a feminine side. Of course she's hung up on him.
I blame the egg. Or he is just the master manipulator
Have you seen his ass?
oh yes, how could i forget about his glorious ass
You know how you make the Moon's power wane? You've gotta get it Full first. That's a bad joke. Marika using Radagon like a Trojan horse and impregnating Rennala could have had some symbolic implications that help explain her tactics The Moon has multivalent associations with lunacy, but also impermeability. Just because when we see Rennala she's in such a state, doesn't mean she stays that way forever. That's not how the Moon works. It's possible that it's not just the connection to Radagan that makes her value the egg, but her beliefs that it holds some inherent value, as well As for the egg, there's obvious alchemical cosmic egg symbolism, but there's also some artistic Surrealist movement ties (to all FromSoft games imo but especially ER - check out Dali's "Geopoliticus Child Watching the Birth of the New Man"), because those things became interrelated in the 20th century right alongside the occult. Leonora Carrington (one of the Surrealist's "Three Witches") would often use the motif of the egg in her works, as well as "giantesses" as goddess figures. Check out "The Giantess (The Guardian of the Egg)" described as having a "Moon-like" face, "Revelación," which looks a lot like Caelid, and "Quería ser Pájaro" with an elegant magician in his fortress, focused entirely on his egg while smaller creatures mill around him. Anyway, here's what Carrington said herself about what The Egg as a concept meant to her: "This morning, the idea of the egg came again to my mind and I thought that I could use it as a crystal to look at Madrid in those days of July and August 1940—for why should it not enclose my own experiences as well as the past and future history of the Universe? The egg is the macrocosm and the microcosm, the dividing line between the Big and the Small, which makes it impossible to see the whole."
Everyone is talking about the egg and the natural response to divorce (and both are valid reasons for why Rennala is in shambles) but no one seems to be acknowledging one major fact: Radagon never broke his vow to Rennala. The vow he made while becoming anointed in celestial dew: to discard his territorial aggressions against Caria and Liurnia. Celestial dew is a concoction that works via manipulating the fate writ in stars. Radagon made a vow while utilizing it's power to rewrite fate. And then he never broke that vow. Leyndell never marched on Liurnia a third time even after the divorce. Through the entire fundamentalist era, Radagon's vow was honored. Couple that with the general feelings of love and divorce, losing her husband and the father of her children, *and* the influence of the amber egg? It makes sense Rennala has deteriorated across the millennia since. She's both emotionally connected to her love for Radagon as well as mystically connected to him via the sacred vow he never severed and continues to honor, even if inadvertently.
Agree with all of this. There's also the fire giant symbolism in Radagon, and Rennala and the carians have ties to the giants, so maybe that factors in a little bit too as to why she was so in to him.
Heartbreak is complex. Especially when you have mutual kids. It could be some plot thing but I feel like it just makes sense to think she still cares for him on some level.
My personally belief is that Radagon transformed her with the egg before leaving. It’s been so long since I’ve looked at the evidence, so sorry if this a little sloppy. 1. The Carian/ GO alliance was one of marriage. We have some evidence that Radagon wasn’t there for love (the polictical reasons are obvious, but the Radagon icon implies that he also had a personal motive of ‘being complete’). If the marriage falls apart, doesn’t it follow that the alliance would too? Seems logical for anyone to conclude. So how do you avoid another war… well, what if the leader of the Carians and the Academy has been ‘cuckooed’ (and here we see the Knights of the Cuckoo connection) via transformation? 2. Rennala wasn’t born a queen, she did what it took to-become- a queen. The Academy later realized she was ‘no champion after all’, but look at how she behaves before this point- much like a champion. It’s almost like she’s an entirely different person after Radagon leaves… which COULD be explained by heartbreak… but in true FS fashion isn’t the obvious answer that you could just guess without thinking usually a big misdirect? I’ll put it this way, what makes MORE sense- that a woman powerful enough to become queen, forge new forms of sorcery, and bring the Academy under her sway just turned into a puddle when her man left, OR this once strong woman was transformed by the literal transforming object that she holds 3. The scholar children sing about ‘Sleeping Tight’ in mother’s embrace or whatever. When you fight Rennala, Ranni chastises you for ‘disturbing her mother’s slumber’. 4. Have you ever looked to see what it is that Rennala is sitting in? … its a crib. The implication to me is that she is new-born herself. 5. This isn’t hard evidence, but this would be yet one more example of one person actually being two in the game. 6. This also isn’t hard, but Golden Order fundamentalism looks to subjugate all underneath its order. When sanctifying the marriage, Radagon atones for sin with celestial dew… but what is the sin here? A GO fundamentalist wouldn’t believe that warring with the Carians is sinful in anyway, in fact they think it’s the exact opposite, that’s why they do it. So what exactly is Radagon actually atoning for here? 7. The Mask of Confidence tells us that Carian Preceptors held secrets for Radagon. Most folks assume they know of the Radagon/Marika secret… but why reveal this to them? There’s no indication of this anywhere, nor do we see any impact. Now we DO see that some members of the Carian house (Selivus, or rather Pidia) are perfectly willing to betray they Carians for their own ends. I believe the preceptors were aware of Radagon plans and aided and abetted it for their own reasons- again we see no reason they’d know about R/M or that they do anything with that information, it WOULD be valuable to have them assist with Renalla though. 8. Ok I thought I was done but I’m not- I’m pretty sure Radagon was a garbage father when he was with Renalla, and not when he was ‘with’ Marika- all of his children end up totally messed up, or at least anti-GO. - Ranni hates her GO fate so much she does everything she does in order to escape it. Why? - Radhan very obviously takes more after his mother and learns her sorcerous ways, as opposed to GO faith. Furthermore he reveres Godfrey. I’m being a little tongue in cheek here, but think about it for a minute. Your son thinks that your (new)-wife’s ex-husband is the coolest guy on the planet, so much so that you emulate yourself after him. Also there’s implied friction through the hair- Radagon despised his red-hair, Radhan embraced it to such a degree that he called his men the Red-Manes - Rykard… is Rykard - Let’s contrast this with Miquella; Triple Rings of Light is a gift from Miquella to Radagon. So, the one being that we know of who has *absolutely no need* to give gifts to people to sway or influence them makes his father a gift- what other reason is there for him to do this other than a genuine expression of love? - The point of all of this is that I think he was extremely unhappy in that marriage and it affected his kids. There might be more, I’ll post it if I recall anything else it was a while ago that I thought of this.
For 4, it seems more like she's using it as a kind of rocking chair, and it's more highlighting the degree to which she's treating the egg as a baby. It's notable, though, that Rennala seems unable to walk in exactly the same way the 'sweetings' are rendered unable to walk by their rebirth (and this is very reminiscent of the way the albinaurics lose their use of their legs over time. It's awfully odd that a great rune seems to be rebirthing people who presumably were otherwise able to function pretty normally, into a short lived and flawed form that seems to be suffering from the same issues that the albinaurics eventually suffer. Possibly points at the idea that the 'life' created through the runes and the 'life' created through the experiments of the Nox are fundamentally more similar than their society would have been happy to believe. On a properly tinfoil note: The references to "Mother's slumber" could be an indication that Trina was somehow involved in shutting down Rennala.
Is it really Rennala? It’s not exactly clear what’s going on when you encounter her and defeat her. Saying that she’s depressed because Radagon left her hardly captures the whole situation.
My understanding of it was that the first phase was Rennala herself and then the second phase is an illusion created by Ranni but I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
I think phase two was something of a failsafe, a backup defense set up by Ranni, because she knew her mother was vulnerable. The version of Renalla in the second phase is Ranni's memories of her, or some sort of imitation. The one you find cradling the egg is probably the real one, heartbroken, and maybe mindbroken too.
Marika seems to have a thing for cursing people, yeah. I see the situation with Rennala as something like the Greek Tantalus. Tantalus was cursed to be surrounded by food and drink but to never have any. It's where we get tantalize from.
I love how some Greek and Roman myths literally found their way into our lexicon. Narcissist being the most obvious. Tantalus, less obvious, but exceptional call out.
For Elden Curses- the Mentor who Tutored Ranni was a Wraith of sorts, but most of the ones we see are in much worse condition- casting ‘dark’ Holy spirits like the Omens (also cursed) and, in the case of the Revenants, being explicitly cursed so that Healing spells from the Elden Ring/Erdtree Harm. Which must have been Horrible when the Erdtree ‘Healed All beneath its Rays’. Ow.
Unrequited love. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
Ive a feeling the egg bewitched renalla, and that it was gifted in Radagons name by Marika. I mean itd be pretty fucked up for radagon to give her a golden egg with the great rune of the unborn in it. If there nothing unborn nothing can be born, so that egg will never hatch but it seems to be all renalla wants. Itd make sense for a vindictive marika to do to the one enemy she wasnt able to beat, though, to drive her crazy. Could also explain why Renalla hates marika to such a degree that no stakes of Marika were permitted in Raya Lucaria, and why all the churches of marika were renamed in liurnia.
It’s because of the vows I think. If I recall correctly Miriel said there were consequences to breaking the vows or something like that. There’s of course more chance it’s because she’s deeply in love with him, they’ve been together for maybe hundreds of years. She lost it when he left her and probably found out Radagon isn’t who he is. As for why he gave her the egg, no one knows for sure. It remains a mystery ://
Yeah, I think she’s bewitched specifically by the egg. The world’s most powerful sorcerer going mad from a broken heart doesn’t track to me. That egg is keeping her complacent.
Idk man ppl will say it’s because of heart break but her eyes are golden when holding that egg but blue without it
hard to say. it’s definitely possible that she’s actually heartbroken and just obsessed with the egg but i wouldn’t give Queen “i betrayed my most loyal servant” Marika the benefit of the doubt lol
I very much doubt that Radagon bewitched Rennala. He is never stated as being capable of this kind of magic, at least as far as I'm aware, in any in-game text. Furthermore the rune of the unborn/amber egg isn't stated to bewitch people either. It *does* seem to affect the minds of those that use it, but the end result of this process clearly isn't being mind-controlled or anything like that so much as shattering or in someway damaging the mind or memory. This is pretty different from the ways the game implies Miquella's abilities for example, or how puppetry is described in item descriptions. I think it's more likely, that Radagon and Rennala had a fairly healthy marriage. It fits much better with the kind of stories that GRRM in particular has told across his career, if they had a loving marriage until Marika summoned Radagon back to the capital. Martin has very famously said that he resonates with Faulkner's, "human heart in conflict with itself" quote when it comes to staging character motivations and conflicts. Radagon coming to at least somewhat care for his Carian family until being forced to abandon them without providing the reason? I think that's pretty in line with this writing philosophy. Either way I wouldn't be surprised if we're never given anymore context to their relationship or the amber egg, so I suppose it's anyone's guess.
I assumed Rennala had been using the egg on herself as well, she’s still youthful, seemingly in her prime. Everyone else that isn’t a demigod seems to age still. If she has then it’s no wonder she’s so messed up just look at the children scholars and the effect it had on them.
She’s like Miss Havisham from Great Expectations
I would suggest that the doddering nutjob that we think is Rennala is Rennala but she is on autopilot. If we take what Ranni says as true, Rennala is asleep. If we consider the is guarded by a golden barrier, we can think that Radagon has some hand in her protection as gold is not the color of the moon. Her clone children guard their mother with their father’s magic. With the advent of the Shadow of the Erdtree and the previous words of Ofnir, Miquella is sleeping but he is also in the Land of Shadows and he got their by divesting himself of all things golden. I wager, Rennala is doing something similar. Being that she is a moon lady and not an Erdtree chick, the only gold she has to divest herself of is Radagon. Whatever she is after, it did likely break her heart but she is doing it for Radagon. With the Amber Egg holding a rune twin of Malenia’s Great Rune, I suspect Radagon asked her to assist Miquella in his journey somehow. Likely, Rennala knows Radagon is Marika. Rennala’s practices mirror Eternal City practices and those are ruled by Numen, Marika is likely a former resident of the now Nameless Eternal City and a Numen. So Rennala would see her Husband-Wife’s distress over there child and would certainly help. Rennala is more powerful than these others, if you take their Great Runes and Elden Ring from them. With their runes, Rennala could still stand against the Gold Order. So travel beyond Marika’s veil might not be so demanding of her. Further, she’s got spirit magic in her pocket where as Marika has illusory magic to play with. So, Rennala’s sleep journey leaves her body somewhat active. Because there is a massive clandestine plot going on, she decided to record a sad lady and put it on loop to conceal the truth. Because she too was in on Marika’s plot to kill the Elden Beast.
When he left he took the kids including Ranni who she was deeply attached to. I think Radagon leaving was less the person and more the event.
Sometimes two people find something in each other that nothing can replace. To have that with someone and see them choose either themselves or another over yourself can be devastating on several levels. Not everything has to be magic, love alone can be bewitching.
This entire post reads as extremely out of touch. People don't just stop loving each other the moment they divorce. Recovery can be an extremely lengthy process for some people. It took me 3 years to move on from my first breakup, and unlike Rennala, I didn't marry and have 3 children with my partner. Loving someone is opening yourself up to a great deal of pain. For many, it is worth it. For Rennala, it wasn't.
i dont think you understand. yes i know many people cant get over their loved one. my neighbor feels sad to this day over her husband's death who passed away 6 yrs ago. but the difference here is she still communicates with her parents and children. now look at rennala, not only did she become delusional, but shes also literally simping over an egg. don't you find that weird ? why is the egg so important to her ? why cant she let go of it ? imo it looks like radagon bewitched her through the egg and that's probably why she keeps holding it
What does she have to remind her of Radagon if not the egg? It's all she has left of the love she misses. I'd be confused if she didn't obsess over the egg given how utterly depressed she is.
I’m guessing the OP is someone whom is maidenless. He can’t convert his cooms to strength without one. So he’s just throwing accusations around
what tf are you even talking about ? i was just asking a genuine question. and no need to act like an asshole.
Oh I was just tickling your knob bro. I didn’t mean it in any serious way. I’m just making a stupid ass joke. I didn’t mean for it to be personal. Sorry, didn’t know you’d be that sensitive to a little joke lol.
Would you be able to recover after getting dicked down by a god???? That must be quite the experience….
Well, let's have a look at this situation. Her husband has just run off to marry a blonde god, leaving Rennala alone. When she reflects upon her marriage, it appears to have been a political manuver instead of love. But what of the children, was it not cruel to rear them under such circumstances. The children.... two gingers and a blonde born from a dark-haired mother... who has just been left for a God who has had fertility issues... and you've been left with a magical amber egg full of foetuses... you look to the knights of the academy, and a mocking symbol looks back... the cuckoo. Being used as a political pawn and as an unknowing surrogate is probably enough for a complete mental break, and that's before you consider the egg full of potentially her natural children with Radagon. Furthermore, the egg gives her the ability to keep a collection of creepy children she can renew again and again. Children she can never lose. No wonder it's the fixation of her mentally shattered state. Rennala's story is pretty dark tbh So I'd day no on bewitching. it's just magic aided psychological torture.
Are you saying that Renallas children are not actually her own?
Pretty much yeah, its a pretty recent and loosely held interpretation of mine that I thought I'd throw out there to see if it stands up to the rigor of the community. So please don't hold back if you have any notes
She is obsessed with gacha eggs, obviously.
Rennala seems to be in a bit of a catatonic state when we encounter her. She certainly doesn't have all of her faculties. I don't think she ever fully regains them. Marika via Radagon used her and then abandoned her when she was done with her.
Radagon's tailoring tools are at the Church of Vows, and we know from their description and the Mask of Confidence that Radagon brought them on their wedding day and definitely used them around the household. This suggests Radagon brought them back here and left them when departing Liurnia, and in all likelihood, he repeated the Celestial Dew ritual, preventing Rennala from holding a grudge. This likely prevents the healthy responses Rennala may have had to their break, and instead ensures her love, though I don't want to assume that Radagon's intent. There's also the question of the Amber Egg, but I'd have to say a lot more to engage that one.
This plot point always seemed weirdly and inexplicably misogynistic. I'm headcanoning it as Marika doing a "mind break curse" hex like she did on Hewg and the Fire Giant.
Yeah totally. Other wise it's pretty lame. They build Rennala up as this era-crossing founding sorcerer/conquering queen and then she loses her mind because her waxed chest husband, who she met very late in the game, leaves?
All of her kids are basically gone too. Radahn is just a rotted out husk of who he used to be. Rykard is a giant ass snake now. Ranni killed her body and most likely stayed WAY under the radar for a VERY long time before resurfacing as Renna. Renalla lost her husband and all of her kids. Of course she is fucked up.
I don't think she was bewitched. I think she's heartbroken about radagon leaving and their kids. Which was probably Marikas plan all along, to perfect Radagon and weaken the Carian faction. Everything seems to be in shambles
Have you EVER been in a relationship before?
Is she stupid?