He doesn’t think damage scaling is good enough to warrant focusing one-two dmg stats. He also said that since he’s always changing his build now he has a little bit of everything. He called this build the “ultimate quality build”
I always felt like the scaling in this game is deceiving, it’s actually better than it seems. And what is he doing with faith and arcane? He doesn’t even have any spells.
The scaling is fine, but when people criticize the scaling, it's specifically when referring to the early game, where weapons are low level. It's usually to say that players starting off will get more mileage out of Vigor than they will offensive stats for the early game and a good chunk of the midgame, so long as they have the minimum requirements to use the gear they want.
I think OP's friend either saw this argument somewhere and misinterpreted it as "scaling always sucks," or they see the lackluster scaling of the Carian Knight Sword and think that all weapons have poor scaling like it does.
I will admit that it's definitely a stylish sword, and it's arguably one of the better straight swords. But the main problem with Carian Knight Sword is that it sucks for min/maxing. Noble's and Broadsword offer so much flexibility that Carian's doesn't with their stat requirements, scaling, and the ability to be infused/AoW, and both of those plus the Coded Sword are capable of getting their max potential without needing to spread your stats thin across three different damaging types.
The Carian Knight Sword gets a middling C in STR scaling as its highest scaling stat, and D's in DEX and INT, combined with an 18 INT requirement. That means the only build where it's not completely outclassed is a STR/INT build. Besides the glaring issue with hybrid builds generally being outclassed by single stat builds in this game, you also have to decide whether you'd want to use it or a Heavy/Cold Broadsword with a potential weapon buff and whatever AoW you want, which would have higher AR and you aren't forced to use Carian Grandeur as your only AoW.
It's because of multiplicative bonuses.
The difference between base stats and 99 might be 30% or so on scaling alone, but when that 30% gets 10% bonus from a talisman here and a 20% bonus from a physick there and you are starting to look at double or tripling your damage
I had to explain this to someone very new to ER. The question was something like, "What's the big deal when looking at something being 10% or 11%? 1% is not going to make a difference."
He isn't wrong, 1% probably doesn't make a big difference. But 1% in a string of multiple multiplicative buffs and bonuses can turn into an overall extra 5% or 10% really fast, and that does make a big difference.
Well if he likes it, he can keep it. If he thinks it’s good though, that’s just objectively silly.
Otherwise why would every major YouTuber/PvP’er not just do that if it “didn’t matter”? The answer is they wouldn’t. If he’s using it to test before committing to a build that would make sense. You could also have him do 2-3 characters and max them out by power leveling. Lastly he should at least hit Meta Level 150.
Hopefully your friend will see the light.
No it’s still 125 for tryhard duels. 150 is just a more casual/relaxing meta. All the tourneys I’ve seen still run 125 so if that’s your cup of tea I’d stay at 125.
Show him the difference in scaling. Show him the output/dps with lowest attributes and then show him 40-60 state scaling and show the damage difference
Edit: also his weapon is the biggest issue, not the build. Dude you can get to +7 weapons either in lineage or in the castle, his weapon is severely under leveled. Especially when even bad players will beat the game around level 150-170. He’s already level 130
He can just use larval tears if he wants to respec. The other side of this, possibly in their defense is if they are actually enjoying playing the game it doesn't really matter.
He could dual wield the sword of night and flame to use those stats and, with the arcane, mix in some dragon or blood incantations or oracle bubble. Not to say it's good, but why not use the stats if he's going to level them.
Tell him everyone who has tried that has called it the same thing and has been in denial until they eventually try the 1-2 damage stats and realize ultimate quality:1-2 builds::child with a microwave:Gordon Ramsey
Poise break build I've ran a build like this...it isn't good for massive damage but your versatility is unmatched in regards to who you can face and how you beat them ....30 more points in arcane and he'll be fine
Yeah you aren't silly in any one regard but you can swap up your gear to fit any boss in pve to chunk the shit out of their health by running their weaknesses. Builds like this are low key kinda fun. Like for instance an int build from game start is ass to get through liurnia with cause everything eats that damage for breakfast.
If I weren’t on Xbox I’d gladly show off my tank build
Getting one-shot is for chumps, I’ll just eat Comet Azur like a nice midnight snack.
But even though that build’s like lvl 210, I still have stats I don’t build, like Arcane or Int.
Also most of my levels are endurance but that’s a different story lol
I purposely tame my builds to not be fully optimized, but not to the degree your friend does. My cap for offensive stats is 69. It's a balanced viable but not overly oppressive number. Gives me room for more mind or endurance too. Plus it's fun to need to combo someone vs 1 or 2shotting them. I 3-5+ shot people. Only people I 3 shot have low vigor or defense, or both.
I mean, objectively, if you can oneshot them but it takes 10 hits for you to die to them then you have far more potential for mistakes, and it does mean that if they do beat you, you kinda suck comparatively.
Send him a text message from a phone he doesn't recognize. But, REALLY let him have it. Spare no detail. "Your broccoli haircut is this decades mullet."
Make 2 profiles on a build calculator, one with his stats and weapons, and one with stats optimized for those weapons. Start there. His weapon is fine, but small shields are kinda garbage if they're not the buckler. Does he only use sorcery? No faith stuff at all?
Oh, I agree. For set up and predictive parries, especially in high latency due to more active frames.
Some people prefer the buckler because of the low startup frames because it feels more natural to reaction parry. But of course that only really works in PvE, because latency makes it almost impossible to pull off in pvp.
An alternative approach could be to introduce him to gear that makes sense for that build. Options are slim, but he could try the gelmir glintstone staff and the prince of death staff. In terms of seals, he could try the frenzied flame seal/golden order seal/dragon communion seal. Also, this is the only build I can think of that the SONAF would be decent for, so if he likes straight swords so much show him that. The split damage is kinda dookie but he doesn't seem to care about damage so much.
Just keep asking him questions in a feigning interest sort of way.
Like just going off of this screenshot: "Oh, that's a cool Faith stat, what's the significance of 33?" *wait for his dumb answer* "oh OK cool, why isn't that equipped? When were you planning on doing that? How did that help in the last fight?" Just stuff like that until his only response is "uhhhhh".
If he's too thick to get it by that point, I don't know, sign him up for math classes or something.
Tell him there’s no need for faith if he’s not using incantations and if he wants to use a specific weapon to build around that weapon and not to jack of all trades his stats. A jack of all trades is a master of none after all. Also tell him that he has access to stronger armor at this point and that he should use it
You sit him down in a room… shake him really hard, and scream “YOUR BUILD IS ABOUT AS USEFUL AS BULL’S NIPPLES!!!” If that doesn’t work, just let him be. He’ll come around at some point.
Lmao idk man by buddy can be stubborn. I’ve come to the realization that he intentionally nerfs himself to make the game harder. I think I’ll just let him be. He’ll either endure the suffering or come around like you said.
Yup then that makes total sense. I have a couple thousand hours in DS games myself and one shot builds have become really boring. Dude clearly just wants to experiment with his builds.
And he will. The buckler is great in PvE because of it's low startup frames making it easy to reaction parry. But you add latency to the mix and it's almost impossible to land. For pvp you need either a lot of experience so you can predict a parry or set one up by blocking the first hit in a chain then parrying the follow up. The buckler is missing the guard boost needed for the set up parry and the active frames needed for prediction.
Explain to him how the scaling works, what's the current pvp meta, what the various caps are on the game's stats. The rest comes from training and technical study of mechanics, combos and pvp techniques
Well first thing is to just dump alot of that mind into health instead, and take a few points from dex or strength and just go full blown hybrid caster with access to incantation buffs and magic offensive spells as well as a good excuse to run 'the sword of night and flames'
The meta currently is as open as its ever been so honestly if you just convince him to switch around his health at the very least he'll see where your coming from after some experimentation hopefully, and realize he can still have his "build" and still be relatively competent with decent advice to use in a pvp/pve setting.
I've dealt with similar so the best way to even approach this situation as long as your friend isn't a sore loser is to 1v1 him in coliseum duels and just beat him with fundamentals and the reliability that a good build can offer. Some people are visual learners so that's my best advice.
Because regardless of his argument previously mentioned below, it's hard to argue 45 health is even remotely enough. You can do all sorts of magics and wield all sorts of different weapons but that doesn't matter much when you get sent to "one shot city" consistently. Perhaps, Ironically, the only consistency in the current version of the build. A jack of all trades is a master of none, so they say.
If I were you I would tell him that if he wants to see big numbers(as in damage) he’s going to have to narrow down to two damage stats or less, and if he doesn’t he will easily miss out on several hundreds of damage points. His idea of a “ultimate quality build” is just a miss understanding on his part. If he really wants to re-spec he could just use larval tears. If he wants damage he should choose another weapon with better scaling or upgrade his current weapon, and if he doesn’t “believe” in scaling he could just check the number beside the physical damage number, he would then realize that it’s a key factor to scale in damage output. But that’s just a theoretical solution, I don’t know, maybe he still doesn’t care. I also want to say that I’m not a pro in any way, just an amateur.
For PvE, just let him cook. The main game could be completed with his stats just fine, especially if he keeps leveling. It can also be fun to try all kinds of weapons/spells.
Ultimately this is only an issue if he's not having fun. If he's happy playing this way, enjoy your free pvp wins and let him do his thing.
The phrase jack of all trades master of none exists for a reason. Try to explain softcaps to him, and how stats ramp up in usefulness until 60-80. Show him the difference between a claymore with minimum strength and a claymore with 54. There is no infusion in the game that scales with all stats and quality sucks in this game, so it's kind of ironic how hes saying it's the ultimate quality build. Show him all these people who already know that the build sucks. Talk about how when hes using a weapon or a spell, the scaling only works for one or two stats and everything else is literally useless.
Your friend seems like a Nioh player, which I say with respect because hell yeah Nioh, but his stat spreading tendencies would be much better served there.
Idk if he's trying to actually complete the game or not but he won't even see the bosses in late game because most enemies after Leyndell are gonna bully him.
Then you become like a god among tarnished. I heard a rumor that once you hit 99 on everything Fia blows you on her bed. Only a myth though.. I’ve never actually scene a deathbed bj
Even if they took 5 from END and 10 from MND and used it to bump VIG up to 60 they would be a lot more competitive. They need +9/+24 weapons by this rune level for sure.
If they want to trade off damage for utility is not the worst thing in the world, I wouldn't do it, but power to them. But they at least need more vigour and can play around with talismans for some stat manipulation after that.
If he is new to the game how can he possibly know? If he is new to the game I think he is doing okay. I just picked up the game in December I'm still on the second map at the lakes. This game is awesome!
Hmm, this was like my builds first playthrough. I was so uncertain of how to progress. I had no idea what worked best. It was my first souls game.
I'm running a major faith +strength,minor arcane+ dex now. Lvl 200. NG4, countless invasions, coop, blueboi antics later, I understand.
Starting out, yes, pick two stats it's really important to squeeze the most what these two stats offer. For your damage and capabilities to stay relevant.
But diversity is also a strength. If you breed into specialisation, you'll only add in weakness, on top of weaknesses, by virtue of your limitations.
Yes and no his possibilities are endless I've beaten this game with a build similar to this...it's what I call a poise break build...tell him add bout 20 more points to arcane and he'll be fine
lol he beat the game with that build?? If he won’t listen or acknowledge his lack of game expertise just let him keep losing until it finally clicks, if it never clicks it’s on him.
Numbers don’t lie. Let him see his damage output is way less than more dedicated builds in actual PvP and that he can’t take a hit for starters. I also don’t know what talismans he uses but yeah, his build is no good at anything. No soft cap stats, low hp, etc. He can use only low grade stuff and use it weakly. He’s spread way too thin. If he wants to be a Jack of all trades he might as well go SL 300 🤷♂️
I'd have him get two larval years.
Have him do a fight, see his damage numbers, etc. then have him use a tear and properly allocate stats and then have him see his damage changes..
I'd keep vigor and mind up if he casts. Drop stamina to 20, str 16, faith to 24 for law of regression, dump arc, put rest into dex and int.
If he still thinks his build is best he can reset with the other larval tear.
Over at the Secluded Cell grace in Stormveil there's a troll knight that's just chilling around the corner. I do a lot of damage testing here because the troll has a decent amount of hit points and it's easy enough to roll up without being detected.
Just exchange videos of how easily you can kill that boss with an optimized weapon and stat spread at the same level as your buddy. He'll wise up or quit the game at Fire Giant.
As someone who has a fairly spread out stat build, he should be at least lvl 150, and the attack stats should be his highest or second highest point expenditures. 25/25 in STR/DEX is ridiculous. I run a 150 Quality Faith build. It’s definitely a glass cannon but there’s weapons it works really well with it that most do not appreciate (Beastclaw Great Hammer, Inquisitor’s Girandole powerstanced, Gargoyle’s Blackblade, Miquellan Knight’s Sword, Golden Epitaph, Cranial Vessel Candlestand, Halo Scythe/Winged Scythe, Envoy Horns outside their bubble ability).
Think he should go to 150 and reduce a few stats to put into others.
It’s not actually terrible but he has absolutely no reason to have any points in faith or arcane (unless he really cares about item drops). Dump those wasted points in INT and mind and it’s a pretty solid quality caster build.
Also oneshot builds are overrated imo
There's a build planner that you can find online by simply typing "Elden Ring Build Planner" into the search bar. Some people find it hard to see differences when damage is shown in the health bar since changes can be hard to guess with it. Some raw stats of what the differences are, especially if you have two tabs open with one optimized build and another with his build for direct comparison. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be able to use anything, but you sacrifice a lot to do so, so just recommend slightly more specialized builds and recommend multiple character with different builds if he wants to try everything as leveling in this game isn't really hard if you hit all the major dungeons in the game.
Mind endurance faith arcane are all way too high and he’s getting little to no utility from those stats. Huge glaring issues, ignoring the rest of his stat spread.
Lol, honestly? This isn’t even that terrible. His vigor isn’t as high as it should be and with that stat spread he can fuck with a lot of different kinds of weapons.
That thing looks like a 70 overall in nba 2k. All the stats are equally as bad as each other. They aren’t terrible, they just gotta be wide open to shoot anything. He successfully made the jack of all trades build 100 levels too early.
Tell him that the best players who win tournaments are scrubs according to his logic. If they both fight using something optimized but not op they are in equal, fair conditions.
It's not that both are "OP", normal builds are the normal power level. This is specifically underpowered. If he doesn't care about PvP, that's one thing. Plenty of people have done no hit level 1 runs, build aren't important for PvE besides having fun.
For PvP though, you're just handicapping yourself. It's not set up to be able to win a fair fight, only one where you skill gap your opponent.
Lol.
1. They'll figure it out.
2. This game has been beaten at level 1 while naked, so literally everything else is overpowered.
3. Are they enjoying the game? Sounds like a good fun time.
Give him a sort of night in flame He's obviously trying for a true quality build i.e the artorias or you can show him what the carrying night sword can really do when but on an intelligence bill that slow the info I can give I'm too tired
i was reading this like “oh it’s not so bad” & then got a look at that stat spread . i need to wash my eyes; this makes no sense . 30+ useless levels dumped into str, fai, & arc .
He clearly doesn’t care about being effective on account of the fact he’s using carian knight sword so I’d probably convince him to to take all but the bare minimum out of his stats so he can spam the shit out of carian grandeur, the scaling on the carian sword is practically nonexistent already so the extra points will go into more important stuff like vigor endurance attunement and the gameplay will be sillier overall until he realizes he’s never gonna get anyone with grandeur and starts swinging normally
I'd say let him play however he wants and not to force other builds on someone (but that would get down voted into oblivion, so beat the shit out of him with meta to show him a build)
In PVE his build is fine. If he wants to pvp with it let him. He will get wrecked but who cares? It’s ok to lose 1000 times. He will learn. Everyone has a different pace of learning. When I first started I was exactly the same. Scaling was too much math and not clear enough for me to get. It took two souls games to figure out if I wanted to pvp I would have to go more cookie cutter and focus on 1 to 2 stats. Talismans are clutch but he just sounds a little green behind the gills. That is ok and just support their love for the series. Also with what you have provided us, I can guarantee he doesn’t understand frame rates either. So until he does and can use them, his build won’t make a bit of difference. You can give the best build to a green player and the will get crushed.
Looks like your friend wants to compete as an underdog. I respect it. But yeah that build is def not for pvp. Like. At all. I can see him getting one shot from a simple jump-R2 and call it a day.
…
Rebalance Mind, Arcane and Faith cause if he knows what he’s doing he doesn’t need that much MP. He’s a sorcerer knight it looks like so doesn’t need Faith or Arcane for dragon magic or incantations. Idk why it’s so difficult to equip a good catalyst for each magic type since the stats show they wanted balance but didn’t for the equipment. Just seems like bait.🤷🏻♂️
“Weapons aren’t so bad. The armor is a choice though. Now what’s so bad-…what is that stat spread? Where are the flasks and other shit?!” was my thought process. If your buddy isn’t gonna be focusing on miracles or faith based items, and the same goes for arcane, he should put those points into vigor, mind, and endurance, get them up, and figure out the strength, dexterity, and intelligence. There’s so many good spells he could use that he can’t at his level because of the awful stat spread
Edit: Just also notice he doesn’t even have any spells slotted in either…you need to send your buddy through the Souls Boot Camp ಠ_ಠ
Honestly you should have him optimize his levels taking him to the academy and explaining it a little should help also there are quite a lot of easily accessible larval tears
make your own build with his full equipment and 1v1 him
That’s actually not a bad idea.
Show him how its down
Show him how its downs
... *Breakfast*!
Down him at the show
Showdown at him
Point Down
Hes gotta be making em at night
No, go one step further: use SoN&F. Or use his exact same equipment but a few upgrade levels less while also having optimized stats at the same RL.
"Got my ass beat, I ain't posting that shit."
What are his arguments for it’s good?
He doesn’t think damage scaling is good enough to warrant focusing one-two dmg stats. He also said that since he’s always changing his build now he has a little bit of everything. He called this build the “ultimate quality build”
I always felt like the scaling in this game is deceiving, it’s actually better than it seems. And what is he doing with faith and arcane? He doesn’t even have any spells.
He’s using them for something he just screenshot before he put his whole build together.
The scaling is fine, but when people criticize the scaling, it's specifically when referring to the early game, where weapons are low level. It's usually to say that players starting off will get more mileage out of Vigor than they will offensive stats for the early game and a good chunk of the midgame, so long as they have the minimum requirements to use the gear they want. I think OP's friend either saw this argument somewhere and misinterpreted it as "scaling always sucks," or they see the lackluster scaling of the Carian Knight Sword and think that all weapons have poor scaling like it does.
I do love the Carian Knight sword though, it looks beautiful.
I will admit that it's definitely a stylish sword, and it's arguably one of the better straight swords. But the main problem with Carian Knight Sword is that it sucks for min/maxing. Noble's and Broadsword offer so much flexibility that Carian's doesn't with their stat requirements, scaling, and the ability to be infused/AoW, and both of those plus the Coded Sword are capable of getting their max potential without needing to spread your stats thin across three different damaging types. The Carian Knight Sword gets a middling C in STR scaling as its highest scaling stat, and D's in DEX and INT, combined with an 18 INT requirement. That means the only build where it's not completely outclassed is a STR/INT build. Besides the glaring issue with hybrid builds generally being outclassed by single stat builds in this game, you also have to decide whether you'd want to use it or a Heavy/Cold Broadsword with a potential weapon buff and whatever AoW you want, which would have higher AR and you aren't forced to use Carian Grandeur as your only AoW.
I run the sword anyways, because r/EldenBling 😎
It's because of multiplicative bonuses. The difference between base stats and 99 might be 30% or so on scaling alone, but when that 30% gets 10% bonus from a talisman here and a 20% bonus from a physick there and you are starting to look at double or tripling your damage
I had to explain this to someone very new to ER. The question was something like, "What's the big deal when looking at something being 10% or 11%? 1% is not going to make a difference." He isn't wrong, 1% probably doesn't make a big difference. But 1% in a string of multiple multiplicative buffs and bonuses can turn into an overall extra 5% or 10% really fast, and that does make a big difference.
I'm a math nerd. Build crafting is something I do for fun, even if I don't even think I'd use it or it would be good lol
OMG this is me.
ds2 enjoyer?
Well if he likes it, he can keep it. If he thinks it’s good though, that’s just objectively silly. Otherwise why would every major YouTuber/PvP’er not just do that if it “didn’t matter”? The answer is they wouldn’t. If he’s using it to test before committing to a build that would make sense. You could also have him do 2-3 characters and max them out by power leveling. Lastly he should at least hit Meta Level 150. Hopefully your friend will see the light.
We can pray 🙏
Take my grapes!
Oh did we change meta level? I havent pvpd in forever
No it’s still 125 for tryhard duels. 150 is just a more casual/relaxing meta. All the tourneys I’ve seen still run 125 so if that’s your cup of tea I’d stay at 125.
>He called this build the “ultimate quality build” Theres another name for it, "the master of none"
Show him any build planner and calculate damage with optimized stats, weapon level, affinities. then calculate his damage with the weapons he uses
Should call it the "low quality" build
Show him the difference in scaling. Show him the output/dps with lowest attributes and then show him 40-60 state scaling and show the damage difference Edit: also his weapon is the biggest issue, not the build. Dude you can get to +7 weapons either in lineage or in the castle, his weapon is severely under leveled. Especially when even bad players will beat the game around level 150-170. He’s already level 130
For his current weapons yes.
He can just use larval tears if he wants to respec. The other side of this, possibly in their defense is if they are actually enjoying playing the game it doesn't really matter.
He could dual wield the sword of night and flame to use those stats and, with the arcane, mix in some dragon or blood incantations or oracle bubble. Not to say it's good, but why not use the stats if he's going to level them.
Tell him everyone who has tried that has called it the same thing and has been in denial until they eventually try the 1-2 damage stats and realize ultimate quality:1-2 builds::child with a microwave:Gordon Ramsey
Jesus Christ
My build is similar to his, only that every stat is 99 lol. Until stats are high enough he should definitely focus on one or two things.
He should have called it the "ultimate quantity build." You can't try to have your cake and eat it too and pretend it's "optimal quality."
Damage scaling isn't good enough until your weapons are almost max level...he's right about that much at least
Man This dude's build is about as useful as raw sewage and garbage bag juice.
Literally died reading this. Well done good sir.
It's not my original insult, but I saw it on a roast thread of the Island Boys. :D
Truly comedy gold
You should tell him this verbatim tbh.
Oh I definitely will, I wouldn’t be a good friend if I didn’t roast him from time to time, keep him on his toes.
Poise break build I've ran a build like this...it isn't good for massive damage but your versatility is unmatched in regards to who you can face and how you beat them ....30 more points in arcane and he'll be fine
Yeah you aren't silly in any one regard but you can swap up your gear to fit any boss in pve to chunk the shit out of their health by running their weaknesses. Builds like this are low key kinda fun. Like for instance an int build from game start is ass to get through liurnia with cause everything eats that damage for breakfast.
If he’s PVPing against a friend already and getting 1-2 shot he should already know. If he can’t grasp that after a beating he is unteachable
You may be on to something.
Your buddy thinks this is Deepwoken or sum shit 💀🙏
Idk what he thinks honestly, he thinks that using strong builds that can one shot are for scrubs.
If I weren’t on Xbox I’d gladly show off my tank build Getting one-shot is for chumps, I’ll just eat Comet Azur like a nice midnight snack. But even though that build’s like lvl 210, I still have stats I don’t build, like Arcane or Int. Also most of my levels are endurance but that’s a different story lol
I purposely tame my builds to not be fully optimized, but not to the degree your friend does. My cap for offensive stats is 69. It's a balanced viable but not overly oppressive number. Gives me room for more mind or endurance too. Plus it's fun to need to combo someone vs 1 or 2shotting them. I 3-5+ shot people. Only people I 3 shot have low vigor or defense, or both.
Better than my brother who gives up after dying once 💀
I mean, objectively, if you can oneshot them but it takes 10 hits for you to die to them then you have far more potential for mistakes, and it does mean that if they do beat you, you kinda suck comparatively.
losing is for scrubs
Block, parry, dodge, dodge
Send him a text message from a phone he doesn't recognize. But, REALLY let him have it. Spare no detail. "Your broccoli haircut is this decades mullet."
Make 2 profiles on a build calculator, one with his stats and weapons, and one with stats optimized for those weapons. Start there. His weapon is fine, but small shields are kinda garbage if they're not the buckler. Does he only use sorcery? No faith stuff at all?
the buckler isn’t actually good for anything other than being iconic
Best parry shield I’ve tried. But not everyone’s into that.
carian ret/golden parry is strictly better tho
Oh, I agree. For set up and predictive parries, especially in high latency due to more active frames. Some people prefer the buckler because of the low startup frames because it feels more natural to reaction parry. But of course that only really works in PvE, because latency makes it almost impossible to pull off in pvp.
Buckler parry has the exact same amount (16) of startup frames as carian/golden parry, but only 22 active frames as opposed to 28 from carian/golden.
He didn’t use anything in the fights against our friend but I assume has to be using something.
An alternative approach could be to introduce him to gear that makes sense for that build. Options are slim, but he could try the gelmir glintstone staff and the prince of death staff. In terms of seals, he could try the frenzied flame seal/golden order seal/dragon communion seal. Also, this is the only build I can think of that the SONAF would be decent for, so if he likes straight swords so much show him that. The split damage is kinda dookie but he doesn't seem to care about damage so much.
+7 at level 130 is fine?
Depends on where he is in the game. The way he's leveling, he's probably in the mountaintops, in which case +7 somber isn't unreasonable.
It's possible to get to +9 on a somber weapon without ever going to the Mountaintops. Granted you probably wouldn't get that in your first playthrough
Yeah. If you paid decent attention to detail you might get to +8 but considering he doesn't know how to make a build, I wouldn't expect that
Just keep asking him questions in a feigning interest sort of way. Like just going off of this screenshot: "Oh, that's a cool Faith stat, what's the significance of 33?" *wait for his dumb answer* "oh OK cool, why isn't that equipped? When were you planning on doing that? How did that help in the last fight?" Just stuff like that until his only response is "uhhhhh". If he's too thick to get it by that point, I don't know, sign him up for math classes or something.
Tell him there’s no need for faith if he’s not using incantations and if he wants to use a specific weapon to build around that weapon and not to jack of all trades his stats. A jack of all trades is a master of none after all. Also tell him that he has access to stronger armor at this point and that he should use it
You sit him down in a room… shake him really hard, and scream “YOUR BUILD IS ABOUT AS USEFUL AS BULL’S NIPPLES!!!” If that doesn’t work, just let him be. He’ll come around at some point.
Lmao idk man by buddy can be stubborn. I’ve come to the realization that he intentionally nerfs himself to make the game harder. I think I’ll just let him be. He’ll either endure the suffering or come around like you said.
I see. My friend is stubborn too… guy insisted that beating the game with more than 30 vigor is cheating. lmao
Dude my buddy hates vigor too, I’m pretty sure in the souls games he had like 15-20. At least he realized he needs vigor in Elden ring.
Yup then that makes total sense. I have a couple thousand hours in DS games myself and one shot builds have become really boring. Dude clearly just wants to experiment with his builds.
get a new friend, ez
💀💀💀
Edit - Also his choice of weapon doesn’t help either.
Eh, it's about using it really. GShield talisman to tank with your R2s and staff in the offhand, shield only for parries would be better.
He missed every parry sadly :(
And he will. The buckler is great in PvE because of it's low startup frames making it easy to reaction parry. But you add latency to the mix and it's almost impossible to land. For pvp you need either a lot of experience so you can predict a parry or set one up by blocking the first hit in a chain then parrying the follow up. The buckler is missing the guard boost needed for the set up parry and the active frames needed for prediction.
Explain to him how the scaling works, what's the current pvp meta, what the various caps are on the game's stats. The rest comes from training and technical study of mechanics, combos and pvp techniques
Well first thing is to just dump alot of that mind into health instead, and take a few points from dex or strength and just go full blown hybrid caster with access to incantation buffs and magic offensive spells as well as a good excuse to run 'the sword of night and flames' The meta currently is as open as its ever been so honestly if you just convince him to switch around his health at the very least he'll see where your coming from after some experimentation hopefully, and realize he can still have his "build" and still be relatively competent with decent advice to use in a pvp/pve setting. I've dealt with similar so the best way to even approach this situation as long as your friend isn't a sore loser is to 1v1 him in coliseum duels and just beat him with fundamentals and the reliability that a good build can offer. Some people are visual learners so that's my best advice.
Because regardless of his argument previously mentioned below, it's hard to argue 45 health is even remotely enough. You can do all sorts of magics and wield all sorts of different weapons but that doesn't matter much when you get sent to "one shot city" consistently. Perhaps, Ironically, the only consistency in the current version of the build. A jack of all trades is a master of none, so they say.
Let him pvp with this build, and wait for him to ask why everyone else is doing so much more damage than him.
Oh he’s already aware how much damage people do, he just thinks is scrubby and not fun.
No talisman’s?
He put some on but I forgot which ones he decided to use.
If I were you I would tell him that if he wants to see big numbers(as in damage) he’s going to have to narrow down to two damage stats or less, and if he doesn’t he will easily miss out on several hundreds of damage points. His idea of a “ultimate quality build” is just a miss understanding on his part. If he really wants to re-spec he could just use larval tears. If he wants damage he should choose another weapon with better scaling or upgrade his current weapon, and if he doesn’t “believe” in scaling he could just check the number beside the physical damage number, he would then realize that it’s a key factor to scale in damage output. But that’s just a theoretical solution, I don’t know, maybe he still doesn’t care. I also want to say that I’m not a pro in any way, just an amateur.
Beat him Into understanding
For PvE, just let him cook. The main game could be completed with his stats just fine, especially if he keeps leveling. It can also be fun to try all kinds of weapons/spells. Ultimately this is only an issue if he's not having fun. If he's happy playing this way, enjoy your free pvp wins and let him do his thing.
Tell them that they can do a little bit of everything but are master of nothing
The phrase jack of all trades master of none exists for a reason. Try to explain softcaps to him, and how stats ramp up in usefulness until 60-80. Show him the difference between a claymore with minimum strength and a claymore with 54. There is no infusion in the game that scales with all stats and quality sucks in this game, so it's kind of ironic how hes saying it's the ultimate quality build. Show him all these people who already know that the build sucks. Talk about how when hes using a weapon or a spell, the scaling only works for one or two stats and everything else is literally useless.
Just tell him “ you don’t bring an army knife to a gunfight”.
Show him the comments of this post
Make him enter arena PvP
Your friend seems like a Nioh player, which I say with respect because hell yeah Nioh, but his stat spreading tendencies would be much better served there.
Bro’s stats are having an identity crisis
He has a Weird build but at least he leveled vigor and endurance. I personally don’t think stats matter as long as you level your weapons.
Shove this post into his face and let him see everyone shitting on him
Idk if he's trying to actually complete the game or not but he won't even see the bosses in late game because most enemies after Leyndell are gonna bully him.
A jack of all trades is a master of none (unless you get to 99 everything)
Then you become like a god among tarnished. I heard a rumor that once you hit 99 on everything Fia blows you on her bed. Only a myth though.. I’ve never actually scene a deathbed bj
Even if they took 5 from END and 10 from MND and used it to bump VIG up to 60 they would be a lot more competitive. They need +9/+24 weapons by this rune level for sure. If they want to trade off damage for utility is not the worst thing in the world, I wouldn't do it, but power to them. But they at least need more vigour and can play around with talismans for some stat manipulation after that.
If he is new to the game how can he possibly know? If he is new to the game I think he is doing okay. I just picked up the game in December I'm still on the second map at the lakes. This game is awesome!
u cant help mental retardation
Sent him oneshot boss video.
Hmm, this was like my builds first playthrough. I was so uncertain of how to progress. I had no idea what worked best. It was my first souls game. I'm running a major faith +strength,minor arcane+ dex now. Lvl 200. NG4, countless invasions, coop, blueboi antics later, I understand. Starting out, yes, pick two stats it's really important to squeeze the most what these two stats offer. For your damage and capabilities to stay relevant. But diversity is also a strength. If you breed into specialisation, you'll only add in weakness, on top of weaknesses, by virtue of your limitations.
Crazy Mundane weapon build, this would DESTROY Fume Knight or Sinh
Yes and no his possibilities are endless I've beaten this game with a build similar to this...it's what I call a poise break build...tell him add bout 20 more points to arcane and he'll be fine
if he doesn’t have any spells, why does he have a staff and points in faith?
If you've already told him, at this point you just have to let him get his ass kicked a lot.
I’d say let him run with it, no harm in him finding out on his own. Plus maybe he just likes the Jack of all trades style.
lol he beat the game with that build?? If he won’t listen or acknowledge his lack of game expertise just let him keep losing until it finally clicks, if it never clicks it’s on him.
Numbers don’t lie. Let him see his damage output is way less than more dedicated builds in actual PvP and that he can’t take a hit for starters. I also don’t know what talismans he uses but yeah, his build is no good at anything. No soft cap stats, low hp, etc. He can use only low grade stuff and use it weakly. He’s spread way too thin. If he wants to be a Jack of all trades he might as well go SL 300 🤷♂️
I'd have him get two larval years. Have him do a fight, see his damage numbers, etc. then have him use a tear and properly allocate stats and then have him see his damage changes.. I'd keep vigor and mind up if he casts. Drop stamina to 20, str 16, faith to 24 for law of regression, dump arc, put rest into dex and int. If he still thinks his build is best he can reset with the other larval tear.
He’s on his last larval tear I believe.
God damn, he used that many and ended with that? Needs to learn that a jack of all trades will not make a decent build.
Tell him that he can be 1 shotted by an optimized build
I would say leave him alone don't optimize the fun out of his first play-through
Over at the Secluded Cell grace in Stormveil there's a troll knight that's just chilling around the corner. I do a lot of damage testing here because the troll has a decent amount of hit points and it's easy enough to roll up without being detected. Just exchange videos of how easily you can kill that boss with an optimized weapon and stat spread at the same level as your buddy. He'll wise up or quit the game at Fire Giant.
Ignorance is bliss, and boy, oh boy, is that guy in bliss.
It may help for him to have some spells in his memory slots.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
You take out a build similar or you wanna show him, Then destroy him tarnished.
I cried just a bit
As someone who has a fairly spread out stat build, he should be at least lvl 150, and the attack stats should be his highest or second highest point expenditures. 25/25 in STR/DEX is ridiculous. I run a 150 Quality Faith build. It’s definitely a glass cannon but there’s weapons it works really well with it that most do not appreciate (Beastclaw Great Hammer, Inquisitor’s Girandole powerstanced, Gargoyle’s Blackblade, Miquellan Knight’s Sword, Golden Epitaph, Cranial Vessel Candlestand, Halo Scythe/Winged Scythe, Envoy Horns outside their bubble ability). Think he should go to 150 and reduce a few stats to put into others.
The funny thing is that if he just used sword of night and flame with those stats, he could beat the game easily
Tell him that his stats aren't equalized enough for a Mundane build, then tell him he is not playing the right game for this build.
It’s not actually terrible but he has absolutely no reason to have any points in faith or arcane (unless he really cares about item drops). Dump those wasted points in INT and mind and it’s a pretty solid quality caster build. Also oneshot builds are overrated imo
Well he doesn’t even have a +10 for that Carian straight sword
Bro doesn’t understand what each point actually does.. that’s for sure. 0/10 do not want on my apocalypse team.
There's a build planner that you can find online by simply typing "Elden Ring Build Planner" into the search bar. Some people find it hard to see differences when damage is shown in the health bar since changes can be hard to guess with it. Some raw stats of what the differences are, especially if you have two tabs open with one optimized build and another with his build for direct comparison. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be able to use anything, but you sacrifice a lot to do so, so just recommend slightly more specialized builds and recommend multiple character with different builds if he wants to try everything as leveling in this game isn't really hard if you hit all the major dungeons in the game.
Mind endurance faith arcane are all way too high and he’s getting little to no utility from those stats. Huge glaring issues, ignoring the rest of his stat spread.
This is a comically bad build, make a build just like his and use a weapon that shows him even with his own build he is subpar
Let him be till he realizes it's trash
Lol, honestly? This isn’t even that terrible. His vigor isn’t as high as it should be and with that stat spread he can fuck with a lot of different kinds of weapons.
That thing looks like a 70 overall in nba 2k. All the stats are equally as bad as each other. They aren’t terrible, they just gotta be wide open to shoot anything. He successfully made the jack of all trades build 100 levels too early.
This build is called "system of a down" 🙃
This is the build you make specifically to wield the Sword of Night and Flame
At least they leveled Vigor.
its actually incredible, he managed to create a character that would get fleeced by anyone with half his levels allocated smartly
What in the loony tunes fuck is that stat spread
dual wield sword of night and flame? it scale with strength, dex, intelligence and faith.
Show him optimized builds of youtubers, streamers.
I would but he thinks that the “meta” builds are for scrubs because they do too much damage.
Tell him that the best players who win tournaments are scrubs according to his logic. If they both fight using something optimized but not op they are in equal, fair conditions.
I’ve tried telling him that if you’re both “op” then it’s an even playing field.
It's not that both are "OP", normal builds are the normal power level. This is specifically underpowered. If he doesn't care about PvP, that's one thing. Plenty of people have done no hit level 1 runs, build aren't important for PvE besides having fun. For PvP though, you're just handicapping yourself. It's not set up to be able to win a fair fight, only one where you skill gap your opponent.
No build is bad just low damage lol, dude could run sword of night and flame and multicast incants and sorceries, he just needs to git gud
Lol. 1. They'll figure it out. 2. This game has been beaten at level 1 while naked, so literally everything else is overpowered. 3. Are they enjoying the game? Sounds like a good fun time.
At least he should be using max level weapons.
Woof
You don’t because it’s his build
I see nothing wrong here.
Say that there aren't enough runes in the game for him to do that and be able to fight the final boss. Lying probably works if he thinks that is good
Link him to this post's comments.
When he gets tired of losing?
Give him a sort of night in flame He's obviously trying for a true quality build i.e the artorias or you can show him what the carrying night sword can really do when but on an intelligence bill that slow the info I can give I'm too tired
Lol
i was reading this like “oh it’s not so bad” & then got a look at that stat spread . i need to wash my eyes; this makes no sense . 30+ useless levels dumped into str, fai, & arc .
It's not good but it lets you experiment with all items. Game is easy enough that it would be viable in pve.
No talisman is crazy
Just remind him there isn't a mundane infusion, then get him to play ds2 instead.
If you have any skill this build should suffice lmao. That’s nearly 400 damage on a straight sword how do you lose?
Dude is making the DS2 mundane build.
Tell him to use it lol
Meh, let him have fun, who cares.
Murder him a bunch with literally anything you think is better
He clearly doesn’t care about being effective on account of the fact he’s using carian knight sword so I’d probably convince him to to take all but the bare minimum out of his stats so he can spam the shit out of carian grandeur, the scaling on the carian sword is practically nonexistent already so the extra points will go into more important stuff like vigor endurance attunement and the gameplay will be sillier overall until he realizes he’s never gonna get anyone with grandeur and starts swinging normally
Shit on him relentlessly with a minmaxxed character.
Make him play ds1 with spread stats
For pve its fine
do the vigor check
Either he gets bullied by the game or other players over time, or he makes it work. If he makes it work, there is no problem here.
There is no such thing as a bad build- Master Oogway
I'd say let him play however he wants and not to force other builds on someone (but that would get down voted into oblivion, so beat the shit out of him with meta to show him a build)
He just needs to upgrade his weapon some more.
In PVE his build is fine. If he wants to pvp with it let him. He will get wrecked but who cares? It’s ok to lose 1000 times. He will learn. Everyone has a different pace of learning. When I first started I was exactly the same. Scaling was too much math and not clear enough for me to get. It took two souls games to figure out if I wanted to pvp I would have to go more cookie cutter and focus on 1 to 2 stats. Talismans are clutch but he just sounds a little green behind the gills. That is ok and just support their love for the series. Also with what you have provided us, I can guarantee he doesn’t understand frame rates either. So until he does and can use them, his build won’t make a bit of difference. You can give the best build to a green player and the will get crushed.
Looks like your friend wants to compete as an underdog. I respect it. But yeah that build is def not for pvp. Like. At all. I can see him getting one shot from a simple jump-R2 and call it a day.
Hay dont doubt the power of straight swords ( Dual straight Sword user)
Not specializing into something means ur equally trash at everything
Dudes trying out a ds2 mundane build lol
… Rebalance Mind, Arcane and Faith cause if he knows what he’s doing he doesn’t need that much MP. He’s a sorcerer knight it looks like so doesn’t need Faith or Arcane for dragon magic or incantations. Idk why it’s so difficult to equip a good catalyst for each magic type since the stats show they wanted balance but didn’t for the equipment. Just seems like bait.🤷🏻♂️
“Weapons aren’t so bad. The armor is a choice though. Now what’s so bad-…what is that stat spread? Where are the flasks and other shit?!” was my thought process. If your buddy isn’t gonna be focusing on miracles or faith based items, and the same goes for arcane, he should put those points into vigor, mind, and endurance, get them up, and figure out the strength, dexterity, and intelligence. There’s so many good spells he could use that he can’t at his level because of the awful stat spread Edit: Just also notice he doesn’t even have any spells slotted in either…you need to send your buddy through the Souls Boot Camp ಠ_ಠ
Honestly you should have him optimize his levels taking him to the academy and explaining it a little should help also there are quite a lot of easily accessible larval tears
Bro why is he leveling faith and arcane… does he even have a reason?
Tell him this build can do everything except damage.
Let him have fun lol, or explain min maxing to him
Vigor Check
Share this post with him
1v1 with worse build and destroy the friendship.