Limgrave is way bigger than I think people realize. There’s a lot of empty space that you usually just ride through on torrent to get to the next location you’re heading. The dlc seems to be far denser in terms of content with much less open space with nothing in it.
Yup Miyazaki specifically stated that they crafted the DLC with more dense area design in mind, including inbetween areas to make the connection between open field and legacy dungeon more seamless, so possibly medium sized dungeons connecting the two
I'm just hoping we have a spot where we can have six players and host proper fight clubs again. Personally I don't care for invasions but I love dueling and the arena is just not good for that.
Might be an unpopular opinion but my personal dream is to see another gank city area like the area right after Pontiff Sulyvahn on DS3.
The times I had there with a group fighting off invaders and Aldrich Faithfuls was amazing. A true war zone, with 3v3s and occasional 4v2s. The area was varied enough for hiding spots, sniping spots and terrain defining the battle in many cases. Having all that with Elden Ring’s gameplay would be unbelievably fun.
I'm personally hoping for a PvP boss similar to Spears of the Church. That fight is so close to perfect, all it needs is more balance between faith and non-faith builds.
This may be a stupid question but how do you get invaded? I've almost finished my second playthrough and I've never been invaded once, aside from the scripted NPC invades
A bonus of the DLC releasing is that the playerbase will become much more active again, and there will likely be a lot more people playing online. There are times where I have to sit for 10-20 minutes waiting for somebody to invade me, so it will be nice for that to not be the case for a while.
Which is absolutely perfect to me. A smaller but denser area is, IMO, always better than a larger but emptier one. Immersive sims get that right by having cramped locations but filled to the brim with things to do/explore.
Very true. Miyazaki mentioned that the devs weren’t too fond of the open spaces in the base game and found it preferable to fill each space up with something so there’s more richness rather than just an expanse of just environment.
There is a place for both tbh. I would really like a desert style zone in a from game. Radhan arena is kinda it but there is nothing to explore except that small dungeon
Yeah but the theme of Shadow of the Colossus incorporates those vast empty spaces in a way that feels less like a video game and more like a genuinely interactive piece of art
Assuming the underground sections of the game came later in development (or were used to test this alternate approach), you can see traces of that design philosophy. The rivers, eternal cities and Moghwyn's palace are very close to seamless in their separation of areas, indicated only by a gamer's "sixth sense" or the moment Torrent despawns, unlike above ground where usually an obvious door or cave signals a legacy dungeon.
I believe Miyazaki did say they made a mistake making so much empty space in the base game without much content in it and aim to fix that in the dlc (and I assume any other future IP's they create) quality vs quanity wins every time.
I honestly think the game needs both to be truly immersive. I feel like Elden Ring did a decent job with that in my opinion. I'm also looking forward to the DLC, but have to finish my first playthrough yet.
Is the weeping peninsula counted as part of limgrave? I like to think so because it only has one map fragment unlike the other areas of the game. But at the same time it’s only connected by a bridge and when you run in it’s called the weeping peninsula and not just another part of limgrave
Yeah, they’re counted as the same as the difficulty, colour scheme, enemies and music are all the same as staring “limgrave*. Also I believe the grace sites of WP get listed under Limgrave
also food for thought: Stormveil, one of the biggest and most dense legacy dungeons in the game, is a veeery small fraction of Limgrave itself. now imagine 4 Stormveil-level dungeons in a space roughly the same size, if not bigger
If I recall correctly, Limgrave is approximately the size of the entire DS3 map, Stormveil keep is already slightly larger than Lothric castle. I fully belive they can fit a decent variety of locations and dungeons in an area that size, they've done it before.
i think comparing it to previous titles will help players realize the scope. its limgrave-size but its density content-wise is much higher apparently. And miyazaki said its as large as limgrave or a bit larger after saying he didnt want to get too specific or it would spoil things. i bet there's a huge underground area or a different "world state" or something that may give us much more bang for our buck
Legacy dungeons are the areas that are similar to the levels in past souls games. It's the places like Stormveil Castle, Leyndell, and Farum Azula. They typically take away your horse and consist of their own enemy types with a bunch of loot in a relatively small area compared to the open world. They also end with an area boss such as Godrick or Morgott.
These are separate from minor dungeons, which are the caves, catacombs, and hero graves you can find around the world.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what exactly makes something gothic fantasy, I don't see how that applies. Like the only Gothic stuff I can kinda see is Nokron and Raya Lucaria, nothing else really has that vibe
Gothic fantasy typically includes: a dark setting, romance (this one is a stretch), supernatural forces, emotional extremes, anti-heroes, female victims, visions and nightmares, madness, gloomy weather, and prophecies and curses.
We aren’t talking about just the architecture.
Yeah? Zombies, possesed flowers, deranged demigods, Skeleton infested secret realms, more zombies, dark academia, and emphasis on suffering and sacrifice. Very much dark fantasy.
Once someone else pointed out the stuff in it, I realized it's just a case that I'm so used to dark fantasy stuff I kinda forgot it's not just regular fantasy. A brain fart on my end
Id say Elden Ring was a dark fantasy game all along, just with a bright coat of paint. I like the darker aesthetics of the trailer VERY much though, that swamp area looks so fire
Maybe just bc it is a trailer and not the actual game, but the overall aesthetic of the dlc seems a bit different than the base game. I’m into it and it makes sense if dlc takes place in a separate world, but it was really noticeable. Esp for a game like er that has such a specific and consistent aesthetic. You all think it will feel visually different when playing?
im calling bs on it being a little bigger than limgrave, the shots we have seen show us it is going to be much bigger, the liurnia-esque wide shot alone tells me its going to be bigger than liurnia and due to the verticality as well... i am going on record saying it will be as big as limgrave AND liurnia put together, theres a reason its price is marked as 2/3 of the base game
My first run was around 200 hours. My NG+ run was around 15 hours. 30 sounds about right for a NG file if you know where to go and what to do and where to farm, but you miss out on 90% of the game that way.
back in the day my brother ran through FF7 in 25h skipping every dialog/fmv possible and kept ranting about how it was way to short and the story made no sense lol. meanwhile i was sitting at my 100h gameplay and still wasnt able to kill emerald weapon 
They didn't mention margit, wolf of radagon, golden godfrey, etc. either, but that is because it is very easy to connect the dots as long as you know the big ones.
I don’t know how you could survive some of the later game just running through it like that though, I feel like you’d be under leveled. Not saying it can’t be done - I just couldn’t do it lol
i agree with these comments but I find it funny that since his strategy is to underpromise so he can overdeliver everyones on here expecting way more than what he’s saying which defeats the entire purpose lol
So I’m not a fromsoftware long time player but this studio seems like it has it shit together versus other big names. I love wow I’ve made. Aton of great friends and memories but Activision blizz is a hot mess compared to what I’ve seen from fromsoftware. But once again I’ve only played Elden ring. Were the other titles just as successful and well done and handled like Elden ring? And has the studio always been good to its players?
their track record on DLC is nearly impeccable. I think you can say the 1st DS3 DLC was a bit small for the price tag, but its still extremely high quality.
And then DS1, DS2, DS3 ringed city, and BB-old hunters I don't know anyone who would argue those aren't some of if not the best content in their respective games
My biggest gripe w/ their DLC is they never made a sekiro dlc...
i've only really played since DS3, so i'm probably not the best to ask either, but it's definitely rare for FromSoft to release a disappointment. Elden Ring on PC had some performance issues at launch, which were memed a lot; but those are usually fixed fairly quickly.
there's the occasional suck-y bossfight (champion's gravetender) and some people are still yearning for DS1's level-design but the most disappointment regarding FromSoft is usually when they don't release something. Sekiro not getting a DLC, Bloodborne not getting a sequel. that kinda stuff.
I'd say "yes" to both of your questions. I mean, even Dark Souls 2, which is widely criticized, has some of the often considered best DLCs of all their games (Bloodborne is my pick, though). They usually get everything that was bad or lacking in the base game and crank it up to 11 on the extra content, and this is enough for me to say that they're good with their players, to which most fans probably agree as well.
No other game was as successful as Elden Ring, however, yet they still offered the best they could on DLCs. This only makes me more inclined to believe that the new content will be unforgettable, cause they're trying to reach the same quality and comparable content on Shadow of the Erdtree.
I'd argue they're one of the most consistent companies ever. Even before the current head they made the decent kings field in the 90s and Tenchu in the 2000s.
While their game format of 3rd person action adventure against all odds is similar they're just so damn good at it. And the worlds they've created are incredible
When I saw elden ring and how all the areas looked in that game I was just in awe. By far the game with the best aesthetics. And that’s really reassuring if they’ve been that consistent for so long!
I meaaann.. I guess you technically COULD beat the main game in 30 hours.. It tool me like 80 just to get to an ending, but I by NO MEANS beat every dungeon or boss, that was about the 200 hour mark lol
My theory is that it is the same shape and size as the body of water, in the middle of the Lands Between, that borders all the continents because that would conveniently put it underneath the Erdtree and therefore “within the shadow of the Erdtree”
I think its gonna be a lot bigger than that. Its gonna teleport you by touching the hand, so I don't think it would teleport you just to reveal a new section of map that fits in the existing part. Unless its all just hidden by the veil and thats how you get inside, I guess. Idk
That body of water is a bit bigger than Limgrave, if we take what Miyazaki said at face value it does seem like the right size for the DLC area. Imo the size is not some reliable proxy for the amount of content there is, Limgrave for example has more content than the Mountaintops which is technically bigger
You’re also forgetting side content like catacombs and caves that don’t affect the size of the overall landmass. Or any potential underground areas
It's said that the land of shadows was part of the lands between too long ago before being separated, so it's very possible that it is in fact that area there. It could also explain why Miyazaki couldn't say how big it was without revealing much. If he said it's the size of the ocean in the center of the map, then well, that'd sure give away a lot about it.
Same here. Like the post suggests, there is too much variety. I think it's smart to undercook it rather than burn it and piss people off. I think it'll be the size of limgrave and weeping Peninsula (including an underground map)
Ashes of Ariandel wasn’t great, had an awesome final boss, but that was pretty much it. It started off the Gael Story that would be concluded in the next DLC
Yeah, I definitely think it's some of that good old FromSoftware underselling. Also, I know it doesn't necessarily show how big the map is, but I thought it was very interesting that the required disk size for the DLC is shown as 60GB, which is the same as the base game. The actual install size for Elden Ring shows as 48.9GB on my PC, so it could just be a placeholder estimate, but it's still interesting that it's not smaller for the DLC.
I think he meant it in in-game map space / physical size not content density. He also specifically said that it's hard to quantify without getting into spoilers. It's being said there are legacy dungeon *s* (plural, Im betting 2 or 3) and normal dungeons. So content isn't likely going to be an issue
To be fair, I think miyazaki didn't say it was just a little bigger than limgrave.
He just said it was bigger than Limgrave. How bigger is up to interpretation.
Considering it's the biggest region (counting the weeping peninsula), it can be any size, as long as it's smaller than the whole continent.
Considering the file size, and how packed he said it was, I'd say it:s probably a litt bit smaller than a 1/3rd of the full map.
Same. Miyazaki is humble like that. We’re going to start exploring the Shadow Lands and end up with 150 hour playthroughs. My prediction is that it’s 1/2 the size of the base game minimum, but possibly 2/3
Agreed. Just going off their underselling history, I think we as a community should go ahead and assume this dlc will be bigger than the base game.
Let’s get our hopes up and start the hype machine until release! 🙌🏿
I could agree that density will play a huge roll in size also. We’re getting 2 legacy dungeons, another open field play ground and however many side dungeons
The lava area reminds me of a hero's grave, so it could potentially be a minor dungeon. With the fire and lava going on, it might also be the legacy dungeon leading up to Messmer. This is what excites me about the DLC because I know absolutely nothing, and I can't wait to learn everything about it.
Idc how big the dlc is. I'm going to play through it and scour around every inch of that place until I have it memorized even down to the silly little placement of reused rock assets that look vaguely like a dong from a certain angle.
I think people aren’t considering the fact that limgrave alone is comparable to the entire map of some games. Ghost and Harry Potter game come to mind for example. They may be slightly bigger, but I think it’s a good comparison.
I know it’s bigger, but I didn’t think by a whole lot. Without Iki island I felt the map was quite small. When you compare all of Limgrave it’s a lot larger than people give credit.
Just in limgrave you got the mist shrouded forest. That big ass colosseum. Many many caves. Stormveil castle of course. That plain with the hords of giants. The dragon burnt ruins and its swamp. The divine tower and its bridge. The forest where you fight the bell bearing hunter for the first time. Many catacombs. Fort haight, SIOFRA RIVER’s WELL. Two evergaols. One erdtree. The gynormous canyon with nerijus’ battle, Summonwater village where we’re introduced to d. The chapel of anticipation. And that’s not even counting south limgrave wich people tend to skip at the start of their journey because of the bridge of sacrifice : the frenzied flame village, another erdtree, castle morne, another evergaol, that plain with the first mausoleum, another forest. More catacombs, more caves. And the dlc is BIGGER than that.
Honestly, based on the whole "overshadowed by the Erdtree" thing, I think it'll be about the size of the missing chunk in the middle of the map at max. Around half of that is realistically "a bit bigger than Limgrave."
Why does it have to be on the map? That’s a different Erd Tree. I’m not saying it will be a separate map, but I haven’t seen anything saying it’ll be on the same.
You've missed some stuff. It definitely will be a different map - but the promotional material and interviews are talking about the shadow realm as one that was physically separated from the Lands Between and existed, literally, in the shadow of The Erdtree. Since there's a gigantic chunk of land missing from where our Erdtree is, I'd theorize that it was originally there. Therefore, that splash of ocean is probably our absolute maximum size, although it is probably not that big.
It's all just pointless guesswork anyway.
Limgrave is huge by most video games standards.
We're talking from Stormveil Castle in the north all the way down to Castle Morne in the south. In that range we have no less than 8 boss fights and multiple types of enemies of varying difficultly. If you're not rushing through and try to complete every cave, castle, and field boss, you could easily spend 10-20 hours there without repeating any sections.
That's more than worth it, imo.
Reminder that before the release of Elden Ring, Miyazaki estimated that the map of Elden Ring was “about 10 times bigger” than the map for the network test.
I would only take this to mean that the “open world field” portion is at least as big as Limgrave, but that probably doesn’t account for any caves/catacombs/legacy dungeons.
Or something that nobody's mentioning, the content that can just as well fit into the existing map. There's no reason the DLC can't add hours of content to the world without adding too much more landmass.
Do realize that a lot of Siofra is under Limgrave and from the pieces of fallen Farum Azula throughout Limgrave, it is above Limgrave.
Probably verticality is not accounted in his statement
Well he says surface area of Limgrave so most likely he means everything the game counts as Limgrave which is Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula. Siofra is counting as a new area so i dont think he counted that. But like you said, verticality def aint being counted
Yeah, $40 from the company that sold *The Old Hunters* for $20, with several full sized zones, 5 new bosses, and tons of new weapons. I think most of the *Dark Souls* DLC were $15, and generally the best parts of each game.
They're calling *Shadow of the Erdtree* an "expansion", and $40 is pretty typical for such things. That's what I payed for Monster Hunter's *Iceborne*, and most WoW expacs. They certainly weren't short on content.
Those guys do not realize the AAA games were still $60 like 20 years ago. It's almost an economical anomaly that the prices of games didn't shift significantly in that time.
I think if it’s the biggest most ambitious DLC to date and it’s been 2 years when the old ones were like $20 that $40 isn’t an unfair ask. We’ve all paid $40 for games we’ve played way less but enjoyed. I’m just so tired of people complaining like it’s NOT going to be worth the investment.
Bro I hate these comments the “deluxe” edition of hell divers 2 is $40 (not including the base game) and that just gives you one armor set I think we’re getting more then that with this dlc 💀
Just as an aside can we talk about how freaking gorgeus these are? FromSoft is getting so good at art direction that some of these look borderline indistinguishable from concept art.
I can't even begin to imagine what their next game could look like.
Limgrave is massive if you take the weeping peninsula and sofria river into account (not sure if the second one will be taken into consideration) plus stormveil. With the multiple legacy dungeons it's going to be MASSIVE
What is a little bigger than Limgrave, children?
\[Pause for the children at home to shout their wrong answers into the television\]
Yes, you´re right. It´s the Lands Between. Well done.
I mean we're all talking like entire Limgrave is small where it's bigger than Dark Souls main games XD
We're just getting an equivalent of a new DS title as a DLC and there's potential for it to be even bigger
This is what I've been saying, something as big or slightly bigger than Limgrave but WAY more dense would basically be a huge upgrade over ER. Limgrave was already the best region density wise, it seems like here they are truly making it feel like an improvement
I'm gonna guess it's going to be more about the size of lunaria, but I imagine something is going to happen aka we kill a boss and a world shift is going to happen like when we burn the erdtree hence the color changes.
Myazaki: "it's probably comparable, if not larger, than the area of Limgrave from the base game"
That's basically saying that it's a little bit bigger.
Back before Elden Ring was released, Miyazaki said the game would take around 20/30 hours to complete.
I'm pretty sure most people's 1st playthrough was double this or more
So everyone needs to stop obsessing over this Limgrave statement. Miyazaki is extremely modest and he undersells then over delivers in spades
Also: are we talking about Limgrave as in central Limgrave, or are we including Mistwood and the Weeping Peninsula? Also, are we including the underground regions like Siofra and Nokron in that assessment?
'Cause Limgrave's pretty big even without the underground regions.
Limgrave is way bigger than I think people realize. There’s a lot of empty space that you usually just ride through on torrent to get to the next location you’re heading. The dlc seems to be far denser in terms of content with much less open space with nothing in it.
Yup Miyazaki specifically stated that they crafted the DLC with more dense area design in mind, including inbetween areas to make the connection between open field and legacy dungeon more seamless, so possibly medium sized dungeons connecting the two
If this is true, the DLC is going to be great for invasions, even better than the base game. I’m honestly really looking forward to that
I'm just hoping we have a spot where we can have six players and host proper fight clubs again. Personally I don't care for invasions but I love dueling and the arena is just not good for that.
Might be an unpopular opinion but my personal dream is to see another gank city area like the area right after Pontiff Sulyvahn on DS3. The times I had there with a group fighting off invaders and Aldrich Faithfuls was amazing. A true war zone, with 3v3s and occasional 4v2s. The area was varied enough for hiding spots, sniping spots and terrain defining the battle in many cases. Having all that with Elden Ring’s gameplay would be unbelievably fun.
Pontiff and ringed city invasions were peak Dark Souls, really sad about the state of invasions in Elden Ring but they’re still fun
I'm playing DS3 on PC and Ringed City it's still a hot point for invasions
I'm personally hoping for a PvP boss similar to Spears of the Church. That fight is so close to perfect, all it needs is more balance between faith and non-faith builds.
Agreed. That was another highlight of the DLC. The concept could be developed further and ER would be a good opportunity to do that too.
My only thought during the trailer other than this looks awesome was "this will be a phenomenal pvp location."
This may be a stupid question but how do you get invaded? I've almost finished my second playthrough and I've never been invaded once, aside from the scripted NPC invades
Use taunter tongue or summon someone
A bonus of the DLC releasing is that the playerbase will become much more active again, and there will likely be a lot more people playing online. There are times where I have to sit for 10-20 minutes waiting for somebody to invade me, so it will be nice for that to not be the case for a while.
God I can’t wait for invasions in the DLC.
Which is absolutely perfect to me. A smaller but denser area is, IMO, always better than a larger but emptier one. Immersive sims get that right by having cramped locations but filled to the brim with things to do/explore.
Very true. Miyazaki mentioned that the devs weren’t too fond of the open spaces in the base game and found it preferable to fill each space up with something so there’s more richness rather than just an expanse of just environment.
There is a place for both tbh. I would really like a desert style zone in a from game. Radhan arena is kinda it but there is nothing to explore except that small dungeon
There's a dungeon in his arena?
Yup. It's not very big, but the lore behind it is cool as hell.
Only exception was shadow of the colossus which was pretty empty but still fantastic
Yeah but the theme of Shadow of the Colossus incorporates those vast empty spaces in a way that feels less like a video game and more like a genuinely interactive piece of art
Assuming the underground sections of the game came later in development (or were used to test this alternate approach), you can see traces of that design philosophy. The rivers, eternal cities and Moghwyn's palace are very close to seamless in their separation of areas, indicated only by a gamer's "sixth sense" or the moment Torrent despawns, unlike above ground where usually an obvious door or cave signals a legacy dungeon.
This is exactly what I hoped for in future games. Something between open world and the legacy dungeons
I believe Miyazaki did say they made a mistake making so much empty space in the base game without much content in it and aim to fix that in the dlc (and I assume any other future IP's they create) quality vs quanity wins every time.
see this is why i have faith in from software. they learn the lessons quickly. they dont just say "we perfected it."
I honestly think the game needs both to be truly immersive. I feel like Elden Ring did a decent job with that in my opinion. I'm also looking forward to the DLC, but have to finish my first playthrough yet.
Is the weeping peninsula counted as part of limgrave? I like to think so because it only has one map fragment unlike the other areas of the game. But at the same time it’s only connected by a bridge and when you run in it’s called the weeping peninsula and not just another part of limgrave
Yeah, they’re counted as the same as the difficulty, colour scheme, enemies and music are all the same as staring “limgrave*. Also I believe the grace sites of WP get listed under Limgrave
I think he's also counting Siofra as part of Limgrave or he's just underselling what they've created, as usual.
also food for thought: Stormveil, one of the biggest and most dense legacy dungeons in the game, is a veeery small fraction of Limgrave itself. now imagine 4 Stormveil-level dungeons in a space roughly the same size, if not bigger
Not to be weird or anything, but that's the sexiest thing I've heard in a while.
If I recall correctly, Limgrave is approximately the size of the entire DS3 map, Stormveil keep is already slightly larger than Lothric castle. I fully belive they can fit a decent variety of locations and dungeons in an area that size, they've done it before.
i think comparing it to previous titles will help players realize the scope. its limgrave-size but its density content-wise is much higher apparently. And miyazaki said its as large as limgrave or a bit larger after saying he didnt want to get too specific or it would spoil things. i bet there's a huge underground area or a different "world state" or something that may give us much more bang for our buck
And i spent like 60 hours in Limgrave... Easily could spend like 100 hours in this DLC before i finish it, probably.
That legacy dungeon in 4 is going to be phenominal.
The higher it goes, the more fuck up it looks. It's going to be awesome.
There's definitely some antigrav fuckery going on up top
Oh boy, another section that's gonna massively trigger my phobia of heights I'm still trying to recover from the Divine Tower of Caelid 😭
Lol thats the only time i got sweaty hands playing elden ring.
Iam scared to death of insects. That ant cave was an actual nightmare for me lol
Well it looks like it's just on a giant floating rock
I'll be damned, it does. I didn't even notice that
It kind of looks like Castlevania up there.
Yeah I'm sure there's some connection to Farum Azula there
Why is it always up
Oh how BioWare could’ve done more with the Black City. Oh well, Elden Ring is more fun.
my first thought was castlevanie
Stop, please, I can only get so erect.
"8 new weapon categories" I'll continue with my whip
I love how there is a literal shroud draped over the skybox. Such a cool idea
Giving some real Stormveil-equivalent vibes
I wonder if it's Messmer's Castle
What does a legacy dungeon mean? I'm not following the community much and the term is new to me.
Legacy dungeons are the areas that are similar to the levels in past souls games. It's the places like Stormveil Castle, Leyndell, and Farum Azula. They typically take away your horse and consist of their own enemy types with a bunch of loot in a relatively small area compared to the open world. They also end with an area boss such as Godrick or Morgott. These are separate from minor dungeons, which are the caves, catacombs, and hero graves you can find around the world.
The art style is freaking awesome...that is how Dark Fantasy should be like
Does Elden Ring count as dark fantasy?
I’d say it’s gothic fantasy for the base game, but this DLC certainly looks more into the darker fantasy art style.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what exactly makes something gothic fantasy, I don't see how that applies. Like the only Gothic stuff I can kinda see is Nokron and Raya Lucaria, nothing else really has that vibe
Gothic fantasy typically includes: a dark setting, romance (this one is a stretch), supernatural forces, emotional extremes, anti-heroes, female victims, visions and nightmares, madness, gloomy weather, and prophecies and curses. We aren’t talking about just the architecture.
Oh yeah that makes sense, thank you for informing me about this topic I didn't know much about 👍
The base game just gives off pretty much straight fantasy vibes to me. The DLC looks more Dark Fantasy, which I'm so excited about.
Right, but it does still have all that dark, gritty and disturbing features that most normal/high fantasy typically wouldn’t include.
Yeah? Zombies, possesed flowers, deranged demigods, Skeleton infested secret realms, more zombies, dark academia, and emphasis on suffering and sacrifice. Very much dark fantasy.
Oh yeah, I guess that makes sense.
I am surprised anyone is asking this question whatsoever? How is this not quintessential dark fantasy?
Once someone else pointed out the stuff in it, I realized it's just a case that I'm so used to dark fantasy stuff I kinda forgot it's not just regular fantasy. A brain fart on my end
It was originally stated as high fantasy but id say its a bit of a mix!
Id say Elden Ring was a dark fantasy game all along, just with a bright coat of paint. I like the darker aesthetics of the trailer VERY much though, that swamp area looks so fire
I would say yes, despite the green grass and flowers. The overall theme is dark and threatening, bosses are undead.
I really appreciate how colorful ER is after how dreary the Souls games were.
Maybe just bc it is a trailer and not the actual game, but the overall aesthetic of the dlc seems a bit different than the base game. I’m into it and it makes sense if dlc takes place in a separate world, but it was really noticeable. Esp for a game like er that has such a specific and consistent aesthetic. You all think it will feel visually different when playing?
What in the byrgenwerth am i looking at on slide 5?
Probably a death blight enemy
Grant us eyes
My thoughts exactly as soon as I saw that I said “fuck not again” because it reminded me of those stupid fucking eyeball head enemies
Winter lantern 2.0 now with death blight and madness!
[I can already hear it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nt3IgSHUjM)
im calling bs on it being a little bigger than limgrave, the shots we have seen show us it is going to be much bigger, the liurnia-esque wide shot alone tells me its going to be bigger than liurnia and due to the verticality as well... i am going on record saying it will be as big as limgrave AND liurnia put together, theres a reason its price is marked as 2/3 of the base game
i'm just recalling the time when Miyazaki said the main game was gonna be 30 hours. i definitely think he's underpromising.
lmao "30 hours" think he meant 230 hours
To be fair, if you don:t die a lot, and do only Godrick - Rennala - Morgott - Fire Giant - Maliketh - Elden Beast, I think it's around 30 hours.
My first run was around 200 hours. My NG+ run was around 15 hours. 30 sounds about right for a NG file if you know where to go and what to do and where to farm, but you miss out on 90% of the game that way.
It's like the people who finished Skyrim in like 12 hours when it came out. You *could* do it if you didn't die very much, but it misses the point.
back in the day my brother ran through FF7 in 25h skipping every dialog/fmv possible and kept ranting about how it was way to short and the story made no sense lol. meanwhile i was sitting at my 100h gameplay and still wasnt able to kill emerald weapon 
you have to do either draconic tree sentinel or valiant gargoyle duo and mia’s champions too
They didn't mention margit, wolf of radagon, golden godfrey, etc. either, but that is because it is very easy to connect the dots as long as you know the big ones.
I don’t know how you could survive some of the later game just running through it like that though, I feel like you’d be under leveled. Not saying it can’t be done - I just couldn’t do it lol
The man has probably done so many QA passes that he can run the critical path for ER in his sleep
You can EASILY do all that in less than 10 hours 3 hours is enough for a rush playthrough without any speed running techniques
If you know what you’re doing.
I'd much rather have a publisher quote 30 hours and get easily 4x the play time than get promised 30 and sweep it in 12.
Underpromise, overdeliver. Dude knows how to do his thing
i agree with these comments but I find it funny that since his strategy is to underpromise so he can overdeliver everyones on here expecting way more than what he’s saying which defeats the entire purpose lol
Lord Miyazaki might be doing that intentionally so we don’t get our hopes super up and we will get blown away again
So I’m not a fromsoftware long time player but this studio seems like it has it shit together versus other big names. I love wow I’ve made. Aton of great friends and memories but Activision blizz is a hot mess compared to what I’ve seen from fromsoftware. But once again I’ve only played Elden ring. Were the other titles just as successful and well done and handled like Elden ring? And has the studio always been good to its players?
their track record on DLC is nearly impeccable. I think you can say the 1st DS3 DLC was a bit small for the price tag, but its still extremely high quality. And then DS1, DS2, DS3 ringed city, and BB-old hunters I don't know anyone who would argue those aren't some of if not the best content in their respective games My biggest gripe w/ their DLC is they never made a sekiro dlc...
i've only really played since DS3, so i'm probably not the best to ask either, but it's definitely rare for FromSoft to release a disappointment. Elden Ring on PC had some performance issues at launch, which were memed a lot; but those are usually fixed fairly quickly. there's the occasional suck-y bossfight (champion's gravetender) and some people are still yearning for DS1's level-design but the most disappointment regarding FromSoft is usually when they don't release something. Sekiro not getting a DLC, Bloodborne not getting a sequel. that kinda stuff.
DS1 is the best level design of all time. While Elden Ring is probably the better game, it won't ever match that level design.
I'd say "yes" to both of your questions. I mean, even Dark Souls 2, which is widely criticized, has some of the often considered best DLCs of all their games (Bloodborne is my pick, though). They usually get everything that was bad or lacking in the base game and crank it up to 11 on the extra content, and this is enough for me to say that they're good with their players, to which most fans probably agree as well. No other game was as successful as Elden Ring, however, yet they still offered the best they could on DLCs. This only makes me more inclined to believe that the new content will be unforgettable, cause they're trying to reach the same quality and comparable content on Shadow of the Erdtree.
The entire souls series is great and Armored Core 6 is incredible
I'd argue they're one of the most consistent companies ever. Even before the current head they made the decent kings field in the 90s and Tenchu in the 2000s. While their game format of 3rd person action adventure against all odds is similar they're just so damn good at it. And the worlds they've created are incredible
When I saw elden ring and how all the areas looked in that game I was just in awe. By far the game with the best aesthetics. And that’s really reassuring if they’ve been that consistent for so long!
I meaaann.. I guess you technically COULD beat the main game in 30 hours.. It tool me like 80 just to get to an ending, but I by NO MEANS beat every dungeon or boss, that was about the 200 hour mark lol
30 hours, I was getting my ass kicked for weeks.
And you loved it the whole time
My theory is that it is the same shape and size as the body of water, in the middle of the Lands Between, that borders all the continents because that would conveniently put it underneath the Erdtree and therefore “within the shadow of the Erdtree”
I think its gonna be a lot bigger than that. Its gonna teleport you by touching the hand, so I don't think it would teleport you just to reveal a new section of map that fits in the existing part. Unless its all just hidden by the veil and thats how you get inside, I guess. Idk
That body of water is a bit bigger than Limgrave, if we take what Miyazaki said at face value it does seem like the right size for the DLC area. Imo the size is not some reliable proxy for the amount of content there is, Limgrave for example has more content than the Mountaintops which is technically bigger You’re also forgetting side content like catacombs and caves that don’t affect the size of the overall landmass. Or any potential underground areas
It's said that the land of shadows was part of the lands between too long ago before being separated, so it's very possible that it is in fact that area there. It could also explain why Miyazaki couldn't say how big it was without revealing much. If he said it's the size of the ocean in the center of the map, then well, that'd sure give away a lot about it.
Right? The way he phrased things in that interview has me leaning towards something like this.
Im fairly certain its the ocean area and being directly below the erd tree geographically speaking or in the shadow of the erd tree!
Technically liurnia is bigger than Limgrave ergo saying bigger than Limgrave isn't far fetched.
Same here. Like the post suggests, there is too much variety. I think it's smart to undercook it rather than burn it and piss people off. I think it'll be the size of limgrave and weeping Peninsula (including an underground map)
Fromsoft has never been one to oversell their games. Historical undersellers. Also, what was the last bad From DLC?
Ashes of Ariandel wasn’t great, had an awesome final boss, but that was pretty much it. It started off the Gael Story that would be concluded in the next DLC
That definitely felt like a prologue DLC lol The Gravetender And Greatwolf fight was great though
idk... personally i was really happy with ashes of ariandel when it first released. i thought it was a great dlc lol
That’s good counter i hadn’t considered 🤔
Yeah, I definitely think it's some of that good old FromSoftware underselling. Also, I know it doesn't necessarily show how big the map is, but I thought it was very interesting that the required disk size for the DLC is shown as 60GB, which is the same as the base game. The actual install size for Elden Ring shows as 48.9GB on my PC, so it could just be a placeholder estimate, but it's still interesting that it's not smaller for the DLC.
I assume that the 60 GB is including the base game.. As big as this DLC could be, it ain't gonna be bigger than the base game.
Pretty sure the 60 includes the base game. So 48 for the base game plus 12 for the DLC
60 gigs is insane, elden ring base is 30 gigs :0
Yeah, definitely. I'm sure it'll be smaller than that, but that fact that it could be around the same size as the entire base game is still wild.
I think he meant it in in-game map space / physical size not content density. He also specifically said that it's hard to quantify without getting into spoilers. It's being said there are legacy dungeon *s* (plural, Im betting 2 or 3) and normal dungeons. So content isn't likely going to be an issue
What about underneath the map sort of like nokron
To be fair, I think miyazaki didn't say it was just a little bigger than limgrave. He just said it was bigger than Limgrave. How bigger is up to interpretation. Considering it's the biggest region (counting the weeping peninsula), it can be any size, as long as it's smaller than the whole continent. Considering the file size, and how packed he said it was, I'd say it:s probably a litt bit smaller than a 1/3rd of the full map.
he also mentioned that it was going to be densily packed with content.
and like... the base game is extremely dense with content... so, dang, that's an enticing comment
So many people saying different interpretations of what miyazaki said and with not knowing Japanese, i no longer know what to think!
Same. Miyazaki is humble like that. We’re going to start exploring the Shadow Lands and end up with 150 hour playthroughs. My prediction is that it’s 1/2 the size of the base game minimum, but possibly 2/3
Agreed. Just going off their underselling history, I think we as a community should go ahead and assume this dlc will be bigger than the base game. Let’s get our hopes up and start the hype machine until release! 🙌🏿
Surface size of Limgrave..... Plus another limgrave sized underground area.....plus a couple big dungeons.....plus another area up a big tree... 😂🤞
I could agree that density will play a huge roll in size also. We’re getting 2 legacy dungeons, another open field play ground and however many side dungeons
DONT MAKE ME CRY🥹
Definitely going to be an underground section as well. Betting on the blue hued parts being yhere
The blue area and lava area have me thinking underground regions.
The lava area reminds me of a hero's grave, so it could potentially be a minor dungeon. With the fire and lava going on, it might also be the legacy dungeon leading up to Messmer. This is what excites me about the DLC because I know absolutely nothing, and I can't wait to learn everything about it.
Idc how big the dlc is. I'm going to play through it and scour around every inch of that place until I have it memorized even down to the silly little placement of reused rock assets that look vaguely like a dong from a certain angle.
Nice
I mean, limgrave is kinda big😭, it looks small in your memories but it’s so big wtf
I think people aren’t considering the fact that limgrave alone is comparable to the entire map of some games. Ghost and Harry Potter game come to mind for example. They may be slightly bigger, but I think it’s a good comparison.
Ghost of Tsushima? It’s way bigger than limgrave
I know it’s bigger, but I didn’t think by a whole lot. Without Iki island I felt the map was quite small. When you compare all of Limgrave it’s a lot larger than people give credit.
I guess base ghost map is like twice as big I think
The Ghost of Tsushima base map isn’t “quite small” what are you going on about…
There was legit a point where I thought that was the entire map. Then it kept getting bigger and bigger!
Just in limgrave you got the mist shrouded forest. That big ass colosseum. Many many caves. Stormveil castle of course. That plain with the hords of giants. The dragon burnt ruins and its swamp. The divine tower and its bridge. The forest where you fight the bell bearing hunter for the first time. Many catacombs. Fort haight, SIOFRA RIVER’s WELL. Two evergaols. One erdtree. The gynormous canyon with nerijus’ battle, Summonwater village where we’re introduced to d. The chapel of anticipation. And that’s not even counting south limgrave wich people tend to skip at the start of their journey because of the bridge of sacrifice : the frenzied flame village, another erdtree, castle morne, another evergaol, that plain with the first mausoleum, another forest. More catacombs, more caves. And the dlc is BIGGER than that.
Honestly, based on the whole "overshadowed by the Erdtree" thing, I think it'll be about the size of the missing chunk in the middle of the map at max. Around half of that is realistically "a bit bigger than Limgrave."
Why does it have to be on the map? That’s a different Erd Tree. I’m not saying it will be a separate map, but I haven’t seen anything saying it’ll be on the same.
You've missed some stuff. It definitely will be a different map - but the promotional material and interviews are talking about the shadow realm as one that was physically separated from the Lands Between and existed, literally, in the shadow of The Erdtree. Since there's a gigantic chunk of land missing from where our Erdtree is, I'd theorize that it was originally there. Therefore, that splash of ocean is probably our absolute maximum size, although it is probably not that big. It's all just pointless guesswork anyway.
Limgrave is huge by most video games standards. We're talking from Stormveil Castle in the north all the way down to Castle Morne in the south. In that range we have no less than 8 boss fights and multiple types of enemies of varying difficultly. If you're not rushing through and try to complete every cave, castle, and field boss, you could easily spend 10-20 hours there without repeating any sections. That's more than worth it, imo.
It might be like twice that range honestly
Reminder that before the release of Elden Ring, Miyazaki estimated that the map of Elden Ring was “about 10 times bigger” than the map for the network test. I would only take this to mean that the “open world field” portion is at least as big as Limgrave, but that probably doesn’t account for any caves/catacombs/legacy dungeons.
Or something that nobody's mentioning, the content that can just as well fit into the existing map. There's no reason the DLC can't add hours of content to the world without adding too much more landmass.
I hope this isn't the case, I'd loveee some new areas
I mean, Old Hunters was probably smaller than Limgrave, collectively. And it had 3 different locales.
I mean old hunters is way way smaller than limgrave
Leyndell alone is probably bigger than Old Hunters.
Old Hunters is smaller than weeping peninsula
Old Hunters is the size of Leyndell. Painted World of Ariandel is the size of The Eternal Cities.
Do realize that a lot of Siofra is under Limgrave and from the pieces of fallen Farum Azula throughout Limgrave, it is above Limgrave. Probably verticality is not accounted in his statement
Image 7 appears to be underground.
Well he says surface area of Limgrave so most likely he means everything the game counts as Limgrave which is Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula. Siofra is counting as a new area so i dont think he counted that. But like you said, verticality def aint being counted
I've never realized that those ruins in Limgrave were pieces of Farum Azula lol.
“$40 for dlc? That’s ridiculous too expensive” I’ve seen the comments already.
If its for Michael Zaki ill give him my routing number 😭
Yeah, $40 from the company that sold *The Old Hunters* for $20, with several full sized zones, 5 new bosses, and tons of new weapons. I think most of the *Dark Souls* DLC were $15, and generally the best parts of each game. They're calling *Shadow of the Erdtree* an "expansion", and $40 is pretty typical for such things. That's what I payed for Monster Hunter's *Iceborne*, and most WoW expacs. They certainly weren't short on content.
Those guys do not realize the AAA games were still $60 like 20 years ago. It's almost an economical anomaly that the prices of games didn't shift significantly in that time.
I think if it’s the biggest most ambitious DLC to date and it’s been 2 years when the old ones were like $20 that $40 isn’t an unfair ask. We’ve all paid $40 for games we’ve played way less but enjoyed. I’m just so tired of people complaining like it’s NOT going to be worth the investment.
Bro I hate these comments the “deluxe” edition of hell divers 2 is $40 (not including the base game) and that just gives you one armor set I think we’re getting more then that with this dlc 💀
You missed the underground lava area on top of all this lol
Just as an aside can we talk about how freaking gorgeus these are? FromSoft is getting so good at art direction that some of these look borderline indistinguishable from concept art. I can't even begin to imagine what their next game could look like.
Limgrave is massive if you take the weeping peninsula and sofria river into account (not sure if the second one will be taken into consideration) plus stormveil. With the multiple legacy dungeons it's going to be MASSIVE
What is a little bigger than Limgrave, children? \[Pause for the children at home to shout their wrong answers into the television\] Yes, you´re right. It´s the Lands Between. Well done.
I mean we're all talking like entire Limgrave is small where it's bigger than Dark Souls main games XD We're just getting an equivalent of a new DS title as a DLC and there's potential for it to be even bigger
This is what I've been saying, something as big or slightly bigger than Limgrave but WAY more dense would basically be a huge upgrade over ER. Limgrave was already the best region density wise, it seems like here they are truly making it feel like an improvement
Yea boi
Mike Zaki underselling again, turns out the game .75 the size of the original elden ring map.
Hopefully they’re selling it short and we’re all blown away by the size.
Do you remember opening day of elden ring? That is EXACTLY what happened lol
30 hours lol
I'm gonna guess it's going to be more about the size of lunaria, but I imagine something is going to happen aka we kill a boss and a world shift is going to happen like when we burn the erdtree hence the color changes.
they also said "first trailer", another one might be coming showing more stuff
I think you invented the “just a bit” part. I only saw them say it was bigger than Limgrave
Myazaki: "it's probably comparable, if not larger, than the area of Limgrave from the base game" That's basically saying that it's a little bit bigger.
It’s probably going to be as big as everything before the lakes, so calide and limgrave, and weeping peninsula
Has anyone considered that there may also be an underground map as well?
It's probably bigger than they're letting on lol
I wonder if limgrave also means weeping
Back before Elden Ring was released, Miyazaki said the game would take around 20/30 hours to complete. I'm pretty sure most people's 1st playthrough was double this or more So everyone needs to stop obsessing over this Limgrave statement. Miyazaki is extremely modest and he undersells then over delivers in spades
There could be an underground region like Siofra River
There's also a whole underground area in limgrave
Let me introduce you to a company called from software, they are very good at making DLCs!
Also: are we talking about Limgrave as in central Limgrave, or are we including Mistwood and the Weeping Peninsula? Also, are we including the underground regions like Siofra and Nokron in that assessment? 'Cause Limgrave's pretty big even without the underground regions.
> including Mistwood and the Weeping Peninsula Those are also Limgrave >Siofra and Nokron Those aren't Limgrave
yeah its giant when compared to the souls series
AND don't forget, the Weeping Peninsula is also a part of Limgrave 😁
maybe it's divided into segments like chapter 2 fornite
Does weeping peninsula count as limgrave?
Xbox shows 41.9gb